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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-25

---Logopened Sun Jan 25 00:00:00 2009
---Daychanged Sun Jan 25 2009
00:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>I'm trying to compile openttd under opensolaris.
00:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>I'm getting an error running configure.
00:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>awk: cmd. line:5: gsub("
00:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>awk: cmd. line:5: ^ unterminated string
00:01<kd5pbo:#openttd>Is this a known bug?
00:05<FauxFaux:#openttd>"Solaris' awk isn't gawk" sounds like a bug you shuold file against solaris to me.
00:06<kd5pbo:#openttd>Opensolaris awk is gawk, according to awk --version.
00:07<Sacro:#openttd>hmm
00:07<Sacro:#openttd>I don't think there is an official opensolaris dev
00:08<kd5pbo:#openttd>Ah, found something else.
00:08*Sacro:#openttd might have to install it some time
00:08<kd5pbo:#openttd>./configure[73]: : cannot execute [Is a directory]
00:08<Sacro:#openttd>kd5pbo: what version?
00:08<kd5pbo:#openttd>Of awk or opensolaris?
00:11<kd5pbo:#openttd>I have version 3.1.5 of gawk.
00:22<kd5pbo:#openttd>SRCS="`< $ROOT_DIR/source.list tr '\r' '\n' | $awk '
00:22<kd5pbo:#openttd>What does the < do in this line?
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00:47<kd5pbo:#openttd>I've gotten configure working now
00:47<kd5pbo:#openttd>The problem wasn't awk/gawk.
00:48<kd5pbo:#openttd>I changed a couple of ``'s to $()'s and used cat and a pipe instead of the <.
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00:55<Sacro:#openttd>kd5pbo: submit a patch to the developers
00:55<kd5pbo:#openttd>Now ld is complaining that crt1.o is referencing main, which isn't defined.
00:55<kd5pbo:#openttd>Will do.
00:56<kd5pbo:#openttd>Well, Will do after I make sure it worked.
00:56<Sacro:#openttd>hehe
00:58<kd5pbo:#openttd>On the other hand, I'm using sun's ld.
00:58<kd5pbo:#openttd>Opensolaris ships with gcc and gld, but gld isn't the default linker.
01:02<Sacro:#openttd>hmm
01:05<kd5pbo:#openttd>gld doesn't work either.
01:06<kd5pbo:#openttd>Is there a pastebin somewhere?
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02:43<vraa_:#openttd>.
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03:17<Wolf01:#openttd>morning
03:24<Alberth:#openttd>good morning Wolf01
03:35<planetmaker:#openttd>good morning
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04:04<@petern:#openttd>kd5pbo|away: yeah, paste.openttd.org
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04:38<@petern:#openttd>hmm
04:38<@petern:#openttd>my game keeps locking up for a second
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05:20<Roest:#openttd>morning
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05:39<Alberth:#openttd>Roest: good morning
05:41<Roest:#openttd>ah someone is alive, how's going
05:42<Alberth:#openttd>quite nicely, having another go at more flexible widgets
05:43<Alberth:#openttd>how are you doing? Haven't seen you a while.
05:43<Roest:#openttd>i finally finished my thesis and have time for other stuff again
05:44<Roest:#openttd>besides learnign for the final test
05:44<Alberth:#openttd>congratulations
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05:45<Roest:#openttd>yea it's pretty good, i already got a job at the local max planck institute here, depending on passing that final tets of course
05:45<Roest:#openttd>so i saw there was another go at the cargo dest and it also kinda died again?
05:48<Alberth:#openttd>Celestar and petern made a new cargo dest branch, it worked quite nicely actually, except for various balancing issues. It is scheduled for inclusion in 0.7. not sure about current development though.
05:49<Alberth:#openttd>We also have the NoAI branch in trunk, and in-game downloading of new goodies such as GRF files and AI scripts
05:49<Roest:#openttd>cool
05:51<Alberth:#openttd>last but not least, we have mercurial mirrors of the repository, very nice for patch development
05:52<Alberth:#openttd>(oh and all branches as well, such as the cargo dest branch
05:52<Roest:#openttd>man i'm glad i finally understand svn good enough to work with that
05:52<Alberth:#openttd>mercurial is a distributed VCS, so you can do local commits.
05:53<Roest:#openttd>didnt you guys also try git for a while
05:53<Alberth:#openttd>it also has support for making sequences of patches
05:54<Roest:#openttd>hmm the newgrf window is still the same :/
05:55<Alberth:#openttd>I have never tried git. but yes that exists as well (http://vcs.openttd.org/git/)
05:55<Alberth:#openttd>yeah, don't know the state of your patch
05:55<Roest:#openttd>guess i hasnt been updatet since i left
05:55<Alberth:#openttd>oh boy
05:56<Roest:#openttd>think i left in the middle of the gui transition phase
05:56<Roest:#openttd>so that new newgrf window wass still on old code
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05:58<Aali:#openttd>there's a newgrf gui patch
05:59<Aali:#openttd>let me find the FS task
06:00<Aali:#openttd>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2195
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06:00<Aali:#openttd>not sure why it's not in trunk, it's infinitely better than the old one
06:01<Roest:#openttd>the main argument why the old one i was updating didn't go into trunk was that it didn't fit into some smal screen resolution
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06:03<Alberth:#openttd>Hmm, I can see why that would be a problem
06:04<Alberth:#openttd>Why does it have 2 lists of newgrf files?
06:04<Aali:#openttd>the new one can be resized to be absurdly small
06:05<Aali:#openttd>of course, it's not very useful that way, but then again the old one was never useful
06:05<Aali:#openttd>Alberth: one lists the GRFs you can choose from, the other which you have chosen
06:06<Roest:#openttd>well i was thinking about it, think when i have time i try it out, it would be one list with checkboxes
06:06<planetmaker:#openttd>Aali: I just toyed with the newgrf layout. Checkout the latest patch submitted to that task
06:06<Alberth:#openttd>so what's against having 'selected' boxes in front of the grfs?
06:06<Roest:#openttd>hey pm
06:06<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: 5 selected of 200? Not very usefull to see what you have selected. Also order is an issue.
06:06<planetmaker:#openttd>hey Roest :)
06:07<Roest:#openttd>well for the 5 out of 200 problem you could have filters
06:07<Alberth:#openttd>we'd need some filter buttons
06:07<Aali:#openttd>yeah, load order of some GRFs really matter
06:07<Roest:#openttd>sorting is an issue tho
06:07<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: still. You need a seperate view for those which you have.
06:07<Alberth:#openttd>Roest: don't type just a tad faster than me :)
06:08<planetmaker:#openttd>because the order matters.
06:08<planetmaker:#openttd>having filters, of course, will be nice :)
06:08<planetmaker:#openttd>Care to add some? ;)
06:08<@Rubidium:#openttd>where to filter on? GRF ID?
06:08<Alberth:#openttd>we can have up/down buttons for swapping selected grf files
06:09<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: still not usefull to combine IMO. Because you mostly want sorting different for applied and unselected.
06:09<Roest:#openttd>no if oyu have one single list with checkboxes you would filter selected/unselected
06:09<Alberth:#openttd>Rubidium: loaded grf files in a long list of available ones
06:09<Roest:#openttd>ha again faster
06:09<planetmaker:#openttd>:D
06:10<planetmaker:#openttd>But it's difficult to apply two sorting schemes to the list at the same time...
06:11<Alberth:#openttd>ok, 2 views to toggle between, one for loaded and one for unselected
06:11<planetmaker:#openttd>overview of what you have vs. "trains only"
06:11<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: that's what you currently have
06:11<Alberth:#openttd>iirc, we currently have 2 windows
06:11<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah. The same as one window with alternate content
06:12<Roest:#openttd>well selected ones stay in the source window so it's not exactly the same
06:12<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: do grfs have anything like tags?
06:13<planetmaker:#openttd>I mean: are the tags on bananas downloaded, too?
06:13<@Rubidium:#openttd>GRFs don't have tags
06:13<@Rubidium:#openttd>well... unless you count the GRF ID and/or GRF version as a tag
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06:14<planetmaker:#openttd>hm, that's not really useful
06:15<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... wasn't there a string which contains tags? Or was it only AIs?
06:16<planetmaker:#openttd>despite that: I had a look at small sizes of the newgrf gui patch and did a few changes :)
06:16<planetmaker:#openttd>Maybe you're interested enough in it to look at it sometime
06:18<Alberth:#openttd>what if we add an index number to loaded grfs?
06:19<planetmaker:#openttd>in order to achieve what?
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06:20<planetmaker:#openttd>you mean different categories = different index? Or...?
06:22<Alberth:#openttd>to represent the load order of grf files amongst non-loaded grfs
06:22<planetmaker:#openttd>uh... that's hard to order then.
06:23<Alberth:#openttd>well, then you first switch to loaded-only view (and that view may use another sort criterium)
06:23<planetmaker:#openttd>though possibly with a button show all / show selected
06:24<Alberth:#openttd>something like that indeed
06:25*planetmaker:#openttd ponders
06:25*Alberth:#openttd makes coffee
06:26*Roest:#openttd plants coffee tree
06:27<planetmaker:#openttd>As there is anyway currently no good sorting of the newgrf files (other than name) one could just as well forgo sorting of the filelist and allow moving them up and down in order to accomodate order for applied newgrfs
06:28<Roest:#openttd>didn't i do a switch between name and filename and you could sort by that, i think that worked pretty well since you put them in categories anway
06:29<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... I haven's seen that switch :) But that might work
06:29<@Rubidium:#openttd>how well does a filename/directory sort work with e.g. openttdcoop grf pack 7.3 and openttdcoop legacy 'diff packs'?
06:29<planetmaker:#openttd>but not with downloaded content
06:30<planetmaker:#openttd>nor with legacy. But legacy is nothing which you should add to new games anyway ;)
06:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>still... don't expect people to remove them because they don't need them for new games
06:31<planetmaker:#openttd>I don't :) I don't do myself :)
06:32<@Rubidium:#openttd>so with sorting on filename you're likely to end up with a larger mess and unfindable GRFs than with sorting on the name in the GRF themselves
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06:33<planetmaker:#openttd>as it's done now...
06:33<@Rubidium:#openttd>you could ofcourse propose adding some tags to the newgrfs, but don't expect that to be an immediate resolution to your problem
06:34<planetmaker:#openttd>definitely it won't :) But it might work in conjunction with bananas slowly, but steadily.
06:34<planetmaker:#openttd>Anything w/o tags is then sorted into an unsorted or misc category
06:34<Roest:#openttd>excuse my ignorance, whats bananas, besides yellow curved fruits
06:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>bananas won't change the GRFs
06:35<Alberth:#openttd>Roest: ingame downloading goodies
06:35<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
06:36<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: no, that's not what I want. But it might be possible to supply an additional small text file inside the tar
06:36<Alberth:#openttd>planetmaker: tags seems something the next generation to me
06:36<Alberth:#openttd>planetmaker: seperate files get lost
06:36<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: not inside the tars
06:37<planetmaker:#openttd>alternatively, one could save user-defined tags inside openttd.cfg just like newgrf presets
06:37<planetmaker:#openttd>and offer them as sorting criterion
06:37<@Rubidium:#openttd>then you'll quickly get desyncs between the tags in the tar and the tags in bananas (as tags are changed/updated and tars won't be)
06:38<Alberth:#openttd>people will copy grf files without the tags, etc
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06:38<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: even so. It's only the sorting of older grfs which are in other categories than newer.
06:38<planetmaker:#openttd>but may be source of confusion, yes
06:39<planetmaker:#openttd>what about user-defined tags?
06:39<Alberth:#openttd>how am i to know what tags x.grf should get?
06:41<planetmaker:#openttd>Alberth: my personal choice. Just like presets
06:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>how to merge the tag data from multiple coop legacy packs?
06:42<planetmaker:#openttd>we don't have tags yet...
06:42<planetmaker:#openttd>but I would allow only one file.
06:43<planetmaker:#openttd>either as new section in openttd.cfg or like newgrf_tags.cfg
06:43<@Rubidium:#openttd>so... whom's tags get precedence?
06:43<@Rubidium:#openttd>should people manually copy parts of the coop tags file to their own config file?
06:44<planetmaker:#openttd>maybe one could make something like "import tags file" with options "retain old info" / "overwrite old info"
06:44<planetmaker:#openttd>retain / overwrite working on a grf name basis
06:45<@Rubidium:#openttd>splitting tag info from the newgrf does not work
06:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why would merging of tags be a problem, if it was a .cfg file?
06:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[tags]
06:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>dbsetxlw.grf="train"
06:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>other file:
06:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[tags]
06:46<Alberth:#openttd>you'd get one with each grf
06:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>dbsetxlw.grf="mb"
06:46<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: that's what I'm saying. But when another comes with dbsetxlw.grf="vehicles"?
06:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>each grf can have multiple tags
06:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>just merge the sets
06:46<planetmaker:#openttd>or that.
06:46<planetmaker:#openttd>probably best.
06:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>tags are useless if you could not have multiple
06:47<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: why couldn't tag information as described by Eddi|zuHause kept in the cfg, seperate of the grfs?
06:47<@Rubidium:#openttd>planetmaker: what 'the cfg'?
06:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>something similar to the .obg files?
06:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>you mean we should search the data directories for yet another file type and reading them?
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06:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>and the data is ONLY going to be lost
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06:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>or improperly copied
06:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>or corrupted
06:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>or whatever
06:49<@Rubidium:#openttd>and WE get bug reports about that searching for "trains" doesn't work
06:49<@Rubidium:#openttd>because someone forget to give him the appropriate file with tags
06:49<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: no, no
06:50<planetmaker:#openttd>A new entry category in openttd.cfg
06:50<planetmaker:#openttd>with lines very much like in the section [presets]
06:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>so people MUST MANUALLY MERGE openttd.cfgs from everywhere?
06:50<Alberth:#openttd>planetmaker: openttd.cfg is generated by openttd the first time, and never distributed
06:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>just to get the fracking tags?
06:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>and just to forget to merge it one time
06:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>and then filing bugreports that the tags don't work
06:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>just because they failed to properly manage the tags?
06:51<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: I though of a user editable thing very much like the grfpresets.
06:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>imho, that discussion is going into the wrong direction
06:51<planetmaker:#openttd>Then you certainly have a point with users stupidity... :)
06:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>(some) users are more stupid than stupid, so imagine how stupid you can be and multiply that stupidness. If the system is still fool proof it's okay, otherwise it's a waste of resources
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06:53<planetmaker:#openttd>my idea is to give the user the possibility to somehow "rate" the grfs (only them) Import is then something else
06:53<planetmaker:#openttd>this rating can be done by tags - or categories
06:53<planetmaker:#openttd>So, external import is a 2nd step - which might work over tags supplied by bananas
06:53<planetmaker:#openttd>but not now.
06:53<@Rubidium:#openttd>and when it involves doing ANYTHING but downloading a single file or starting OpenTTD it won't work
06:55<@Rubidium:#openttd>adding something without the data immediatelly is going to cause problems; see the whole tram issue with people not being able to load the supplied newgrf. Did that once, not going to repeat that.
06:55<Roest:#openttd>is anyone here compiling with vs2008?
06:55<planetmaker:#openttd>ok
06:56<planetmaker:#openttd>point taken
06:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Rubidium: well, the only other option would be to hardcode the tags into the newgrf files. but that would make it not user-editable, not possible to extend to old grfs, and not synchronised between grf authors
07:00<Alberth:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: the latter is easily solved by having a pre-defined set of tags in the newGrf definition
07:00<@petern:#openttd>or parsing the grf
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07:00<@petern:#openttd>for features
07:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in the end, there must be some kind of filtering in the newgrf window. it will only get MORE grfs, not less
07:01<planetmaker:#openttd>he, yeah
07:01<Elukka:#openttd>i have no idea what you were talking about but i say yes to that
07:01<@petern:#openttd>trains, rvs, ships, aircraft, stations....
07:01<planetmaker:#openttd>rm -rf ~/.openttd/data ;)
07:01<@petern:#openttd>wouldn't let you filter on "mb" though
07:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but "mb" appears in the grf-id ;)
07:01<Elukka:#openttd>ships... speaking of
07:01<@petern:#openttd>hehe
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07:01<Elukka:#openttd>is there any ECS compatible ship set?
07:01<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
07:01<planetmaker:#openttd>newships by mb
07:01<@petern:#openttd>newshipsxl!
07:01<@petern:#openttd>oh wait :/
07:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: there is a 2cc-ship set
07:01<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
07:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think
07:02<Elukka:#openttd>to the googlemobile
07:02<@petern:#openttd>or a 'tag content service' hehe
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07:03<planetmaker:#openttd>which wouldn't be bad
07:04<@petern:#openttd>bit overkill
07:04<Alberth:#openttd>and you get a keep-up-to-date problem
07:04<planetmaker:#openttd>imagine a scenario designer: use only grfs which anyone easily can obtain, petern
07:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>above question is also something which could be addressed with tags... is there "XYZ" set which goes with ECS?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>just tag every compatible set with "ECS"
07:07<Elukka:#openttd>2cc ship set doesnt seem to be available yet
07:07<Elukka:#openttd>i dont think newships supports new industries
07:08<Roest:#openttd>hmm do i really need dxguid.lib?
07:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>newships supports newindustries, but only the original grf from mb, not the complete ECS scheme
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but afaik there is a newships_ecs extension, similar to the dbset extension
07:09<Elukka:#openttd>hey, it does support ECS!
07:09<Elukka:#openttd>i'm surprised how few ship sets there are
07:10<@petern:#openttd>Roest: you can compile with sdl, but you need to modify bits to make that work with msvc
07:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: that's because ship sets were very limited because of the low number of ship-ids
07:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so it wasn't interesting for set designers
07:13<Elukka:#openttd>does were mean they arent so limited any more?
07:13<planetmaker:#openttd>yes. In Openttd there're no limits ;)
07:13<planetmaker:#openttd>well... much higher now :)
07:14<Elukka:#openttd>i should try to learn to make grfs..
07:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the über-evil newgrf kill feature, otherwise known as "multipool"
07:16<Roest:#openttd>petern: it works, i just had to remove the use dx music preprocessor directive and that lib entry
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07:22<Roest:#openttd>btw for printing the svn revision in the about dialog, how do you do it for the global revision, i only found out how to do it for a file but that revision doesn't necessarily change
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07:23<Vikthor:#openttd>Roest: svn info
07:23<Alberth:#openttd>Roest: ask revision of / (or /trunk)
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07:24<Alberth:#openttd>(after svn up)
07:25<Elukka:#openttd>hmm...
07:25<Elukka:#openttd>i wonder if i could model stuff in sketchup, then export to blender, then do stuff...
07:25<Elukka:#openttd>because sketchup is ridiculously easy
07:25<Roest:#openttd>hmm was using the $Revision$ variable
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07:27<Alberth:#openttd>Roest: see findversion.sh in root of OpenTTD sources
07:29<Elukka:#openttd>hmm... the road system from the pathzilla ai looks like it would be excellent for road networks in the map generation phase
07:29<Elukka:#openttd>it always bugged me there were no road networks
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07:41<@petern:#openttd>or rivers
07:41<@petern:#openttd>or canals
07:42<Roest:#openttd>or pizza delivery services
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07:44<Alberth:#openttd>somebody is working on a supermarket, that's a start
07:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15264 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Cleanup: we no longer use the Suspend stuff we once introduced in Squirrel, which assumed threads (which NoAI no longer uses)
07:48<@petern:#openttd>there's a supermarket in the original graphics
07:49<@petern:#openttd>it doesn't do anything special though
07:52<Elukka:#openttd>it also looks like a greenhouse
07:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that's one of the most weird buildings that got introduced with TTD
07:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it wasn't in TTO
07:54<Elukka:#openttd>i never played TTO
07:54<Elukka:#openttd>and i played very little TTD
07:54<Elukka:#openttd>because then i found openttd
07:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i played TTO basically until i had internet... which was somewhere around 2001/02
07:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>where i found TTDPatch
07:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>1.6 or something
07:56<Elukka:#openttd>i dont recall when i began playing
07:56<Elukka:#openttd>i do remember that there were no newstations support and a lot of grfs for various things werent supported yet
07:56<@petern:#openttd>i have TTO somewhere
07:56<Elukka:#openttd>like industries
07:57<@petern:#openttd>Elukka: that could've been a year ago :p
07:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i played TTO Demo around 1993 or something
07:57*petern:#openttd nods
07:57<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15265 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [Squirrel] -Update: updated to Squirrel 2.2.2
07:57<yorick:#openttd>how am I supposed to set different sound effects for helicopters? :p
07:57<Elukka:#openttd>i think it was 0.4x or 0.5 something
07:57<Elukka:#openttd>not that long ago
07:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>my brother then bougt TTO for a horribly inflated price
07:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>he paid like 120DM (~60€)
07:58<Elukka:#openttd>1993...
07:58<Elukka:#openttd>i was one
07:59<Roest:#openttd>%$§%/&/%$§
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07:59<@petern:#openttd>hmm, i remember when doom came out
07:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>later the world editor expansion also cost 25DM
07:59<@petern:#openttd>that was exciting stuff
08:00<Roest:#openttd>we downloaded the doom demo the day it came out and played it in a lab with 386 comps
08:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>must be a big lab :p
08:00<Roest:#openttd>:P
08:01<Roest:#openttd>and it was exciting
08:01<@petern:#openttd>hmm, i remember having doom, but i don't remember where i got it from. don't think i bought it :p
08:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>TTO was one of the few games i actually bought
08:01<@petern:#openttd>it didn't run too well on the 368sx-16 we had
08:01<@petern:#openttd>yeah, i bought TTO
08:01<Roest:#openttd>i think id never really did copy protection until like q3 with the serial
08:01<@petern:#openttd>i did buy doom later, heh
08:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>lots of games had some kind of "copy protection"
08:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>usually typing in stuff only to be found in the manual
08:03<@petern:#openttd>type the word in from the manual
08:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>this disk from monkey island, where you could assemble the pirate faces was cool :)
08:04<frosch123:#openttd>we should also do that for ottd: type the paragraph about "transfer orders" to activate the game :p
08:04<@petern:#openttd>hmm, grand prix unlimited had a wheel
08:05<frosch123:#openttd>or: type 100 times: 'I shall not change newgrfs ingame'
08:05<yorick:#openttd>then why not just remove feature that allows you?
08:05<@petern:#openttd>http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/940787546-00.gif
08:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i remember Zak McKracken, where you had huge tables of symbols
08:05<@petern:#openttd>^ not the most realistic GP simulation...
08:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>give that to Belugas ;)
08:06<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15266 /trunk/src/thread_none.cpp: -Fix (r15159): compilation without threads was broken
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08:09<Aali:#openttd>seriously though, maybe you should remind users to change their name to something other than 'Player' when they try to join a MP game
08:09<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: truebrain * r15267 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/ (sqvm.cpp sqvm.h): [Squirrel] -Cleanup: two very minor final things to make us closed to Squirrel source
08:10<@petern:#openttd>why?
08:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>default the player name to the username on first start
08:11<@petern:#openttd>closed? :o
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08:11<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: then people will join with nick "Administrator" instead of "Player" :-P
08:11<Aali:#openttd>having a server full of Player, Player #1, Player #2 isn't very nice
08:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: yes, but way fewer
08:12<Aali:#openttd>yeah, username doesn't help at all
08:12<Aali:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: you'd be surprised
08:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, i'd not care...
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08:12<yorick:#openttd>now who translated "manually" with "handleiding" in the dutch translation :/
08:13<Roest:#openttd>was me sorry
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08:20<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r15268 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: AIEventVehicleLost triggered at every pbs signal independent of the vehicle being lost.
08:20<el_en:#openttd>doesn't sound funny enough to be dutch, true.
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08:40<@petern:#openttd>hm
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08:45<@petern:#openttd>how can 5 * 5 = 35?
08:46<Elukka:#openttd>D:
08:46<Roest:#openttd>inflation
08:46<Elukka:#openttd>divide by zero!
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08:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>maybe it's a derivate of 6*9=42?
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08:48<Elukka:#openttd>you're reminding me of this maths exam i have tomorrow and am supposed to be studying for :/
08:48<Roest:#openttd>studying is for the weak
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09:03<Zuu:#openttd>Roest: Only works the first half of a course, the second half study is all 7 days.
09:04<frosch123:#openttd>depends on the course :p
09:04<Elukka:#openttd>i have geometry now
09:05<Zuu:#openttd>Maybe if you read culture analysis or something like that you don't need to study so hard... :)
09:05<Elukka:#openttd>next up, analytic geometry
09:05<Elukka:#openttd>then vectors
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09:23<Zahl:#openttd>if anyone here likes settlers 2, you might be interested in this: http://www.siedler25.org/?lang=englisch :-)
09:24<Elukka:#openttd>heh... settlers 4 was my first game that i really played online
09:25<Zahl:#openttd>i just loved this game when it came out
09:25<Zahl:#openttd>i was as addicted to it as to ttd
09:25<Zahl:#openttd>just two games that are totally awesome :-D
09:25<Zuu:#openttd>My first computer based settlers was settelers 3, but was really good.
09:26<Zahl:#openttd>well, i liked that you had to build streets in settlers 2, so settlers 3 war a bit disappointing :-D
09:26<Zahl:#openttd>its trainsport tycoon with people ^^
09:26<Zuu:#openttd>I can imagne, never played settlers 2.
09:27<thingwath:#openttd>is this somehow related to widelands?
09:27<Zahl:#openttd>nope
09:27<Zahl:#openttd>this project needs files from the original game, just like ottd
09:27<Zuu:#openttd>Settlers 5 was the real disappointment for me.. but then I didn't play much anymore anyways..
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09:31<Zahl:#openttd>gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ysHhjmanRY&fmt=22
09:35<Zuu:#openttd>Nice :)
09:36<Aali:#openttd>oh man
09:36<Aali:#openttd>settlers 2 was the bomb
09:36<Aali:#openttd>Zahl: thank you for this :P
09:36*frosch123:#openttd preferred settlers 1
09:37<Zahl:#openttd>settlers 1 was nice too
09:37<Zahl:#openttd>2 was an improvement
09:37<Zahl:#openttd>3 didn't have streets :-D
09:37<Zuu:#openttd>But they had paths.
09:38<Zahl:#openttd>they were built automatically
09:38<Zahl:#openttd>so you didn't have to think
09:38<Zahl:#openttd>its like airplanes in ttd...
09:38<Zuu:#openttd>looking on the video it looks like the streets in #2 is also automatically bulit.
09:38<Zahl:#openttd>nope, you had connect the flags
09:38<Elukka:#openttd>unrelated, but i've gotten 4 real life friends to play ottd :D
09:38<Elukka:#openttd>it's much more fun online
09:39<Zahl:#openttd>+to
09:39<Zuu:#openttd>Not automatic in the same way but, still you didn't told where the roads should be built explicit.
09:39<Zahl:#openttd>well i'm also playing s2 online ;)
09:39<frosch123:#openttd>I liked building streets in settlers 1, which was quite challenging because the mines and farms produced so much. settlers 2 produced less and transported faster. so that challenge was removed
09:39<Zahl:#openttd>Zuu: well you had to choose start point and end point
09:39<Zahl:#openttd>and you also could build them completely on your own
09:39<Zuu:#openttd>Okay
09:40<Zahl:#openttd>frosch123: but the world was much larger in s2
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09:40<frosch123:#openttd>what? the size of settlers 1 world depends on your ram size. the largest map feeled like ottd 2048x2048 :p
09:41<Zahl:#openttd>o.O
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09:41<Zahl:#openttd>i only played it on the amiga and there they were pretty small as far as i can remember
09:42<Zuu:#openttd>I like how enemy buildings are set into fire in s2 :)
09:45<Roest:#openttd>ok question: i have an old scenario, i load it in the editor, fixed all the grfs, now when i start to play it and unpause it it tells me grfs are missing and it may crash, all the grf in the list are green tho
09:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... i do actually have settlers and settlers 2 still on my HD...
09:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>settlers 1 supported really large maps
09:50<Roest:#openttd>do you ever delete stuff?
09:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>not if i can help it ;)
09:51<Roest:#openttd>anyway you're only a rl s1 player if you played it on an amiga :P
09:52<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hey. the real adventure was to actually get it running under DOS...
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09:52<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think that was the game where i had the biggest problems getting it to run
09:53<Zahl:#openttd>heh yeah, deleting things sucks, Eddi|zuHause :-D
09:54<Roest:#openttd>hmm now the yapp is in trunk is there an option to just use it or do i have to activate the signal menu and just choose a signal from the
09:54<Zahl:#openttd>when i discovered that project a while ago i also still had an s2 installation on my disk
09:54<thingwath:#openttd>not really, there are so many things I would like to delete
09:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i remember that i had big graphics problems with Siedler 1
09:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and even with a boot disk it only started 50% of the times
09:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it worked better under windows (3.1), but saving the game was broken there
09:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>weee... i still have my siedler 1 manual
09:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but the CD is not in the box...
09:58<thingwath:#openttd>Could settlers 1 be played by two people split-screen?
09:58<frosch123:#openttd>on novel dos (flame me), it worked only with himem, not with emm
09:59<Zahl:#openttd>thingwath: yep
09:59<frosch123:#openttd>thingwath: yes, with second mouse, was hell to configure
09:59<Zahl:#openttd>with s2 it was a bit easier
09:59<Alberth:#openttd>Roest the signal GUI is one way, under 'advanced settings'->Construction->Signals, you can configure how clicking with signals works
10:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>thingwath: yes, if you had 2 mice
10:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>frosch123: weird, i had novell dos, too ;)
10:00<thingwath:#openttd>I only remember doing this with settlers 2/.
10:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>also, you hardly saw anything with a split screen at resolution 320x200
10:01<Zahl:#openttd>you saw a couple of pixels :D
10:01<thingwath:#openttd>depends
10:01<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: so you also had those problems with all those software that complained about not finding mscdex, as it was nwcdex :p
10:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i had no CD drive for quite a long time
10:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, i had a drive, but no free IDE port
10:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but yes, there were occasionally problems with that
10:04<el_en:#openttd>http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/hfo-emoticon/
10:08<@petern:#openttd>hurr
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10:16<Roujin:#openttd>hi guys
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10:25<Zuu:#openttd>Hi Roujin
10:25<Roujin:#openttd>ah zuu, you're the authour of the filter sign list patch, right?
10:25<Zuu:#openttd>Yep
10:26<Zuu:#openttd>Any questions regarding it?
10:26<Roujin:#openttd>I'm currentling persuing a different approach at filtering lists.. a lower level one, introducing a new Filter class to use alongside the GUIList
10:27<Zuu:#openttd>Okay, that I have though about, but though that the filters would differ to much between different windows.
10:28<Roujin:#openttd>yes, but with what I am trying to do you can (and actually have to) provide the filter your own filtering function
10:28<Roujin:#openttd>similar to how sorting of GUILists is handled
10:30<Zuu:#openttd>It is probably a good movement with increased number of filters. My filter will be a tinny bit slower, but probably not noticalble even if it would become 10 or 100 times slower.
10:30<@petern:#openttd>Roujin, do it
10:31<Roujin:#openttd>petern: I'm at it :)
10:31<@petern:#openttd>hmm
10:31*petern:#openttd mumbles at curves
10:31<@petern:#openttd>shorter wagons = curves vary in lenght
10:31<@petern:#openttd>*length
10:31<@petern:#openttd>this should be done better
10:32<@petern:#openttd>preferably in advance...
10:32<Roujin:#openttd>currently I decided to go away from the idea of making a subclass of GUIList, GUIFilterList, but rather make a class named GUIListFilter that gets the GUIList it is supposed to filter on passed as an argument
10:32<@petern:#openttd>just add filtering to GUIList?
10:32<Roujin:#openttd>should I?
10:33<Zuu:#openttd>With a default Fillter() {} function.
10:33<Zuu:#openttd>So if you don't override it it don't filter anything.
10:33<Roujin:#openttd>I supposed I should rather make a new class instead of altering one that is heavily used all through the game
10:35<Zuu:#openttd>Depends a bit on if you need to change all places which uses it or not I think.
10:35<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r15269 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: reduced indentation in CmdBuildRail*
10:36<@petern:#openttd>glx is code duffing
10:36<+glx:#openttd>well I notice it while doing my last changes (which were needed for noai)
10:37<Roujin:#openttd>?
10:37<Roujin:#openttd>what is code duffing?
10:38<@Rubidium:#openttd>making code drunk?
10:38<@petern:#openttd>return early, functionise, along with a few other methods
10:39<@petern:#openttd>a few tweaks and you can reduce unnecessary indentation or code duplication
10:39<Roujin:#openttd>aah okay ;) didn't know that expression
10:40<Roujin:#openttd>maybe this expression is an invention by you? because the only google hit I get for "code duffing" is a post by you on the openttd flyspray :D
10:41<FauxFaux:#openttd>I'm totally going to use that at work. (return mid-block is against style)
10:41<@petern:#openttd>r5062 :o
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10:42<Roujin:#openttd>yup ^^
10:45<Roujin:#openttd>the question i am facing with my filter-capable list is where to store the items that are currently filtered out
10:46<Roujin:#openttd>I was thinking about having two second small-vector, and then one contains all items, and the other contains only the items that should be displayed with the currently applied filter
10:46<Roujin:#openttd>*having a second small-vector
10:48<Roujin:#openttd>or does someone have a better idea?
10:48<frosch123:#openttd>how do you want to combine that with sorting the list?
10:49<Roujin:#openttd>sorting is done on the complete list
10:49<frosch123:#openttd>and when changing the sorting-method while they are filtered?
10:51<@petern:#openttd>Roujin: do you need to?
10:51<@petern:#openttd>couldn't the list just be rebuilt?
10:51<Roujin:#openttd>then the complete list is sorted first, and after that the filtered list is created again from the complete list using the filter function... I'd say
10:51<@petern:#openttd>they don't take a lot of time to rebuild
10:52<@petern:#openttd>it's just you don't want to be doing it every tick
10:52<Roujin:#openttd>hmm
10:52<@petern:#openttd>kudr (i think it was) removed the caching once as it was a 'minor' performance improvement
10:53<+glx:#openttd>maybe a show/hide flag for the items
10:53<@petern:#openttd>yeah
10:53<@petern:#openttd>that would work
10:53<@petern:#openttd>sorting can work exactly as normal
10:54<Roujin:#openttd>problem is how the GUIList is currently used everywhere in the code..
10:54<@petern:#openttd>"-Codechange: Reinstate caching of sorted purchase list. Dropping from 9m to 1.5m cycles for a redraw of a full list is not frivolous.
10:54<@petern:#openttd>"
10:54<@petern:#openttd>hehe
10:55<@petern:#openttd>Roujin: how is it a problem?
10:56<Roujin:#openttd>well, the GUIList is currently a derived class of SmallVector, so windows that use a GUIList just iterate over the list like this: for (ConstContentIterator iter = this->content.Begin(); iter != this->content.End(); iter++)
10:56<Roujin:#openttd>where content is the GUIList
10:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><petern> shorter wagons = curves vary in lenght <- really, i think curves and slopes should be determined independent from the train length
10:57<+glx:#openttd>Roujin: and?
10:57<@petern:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: obviously. i was stating how it works currently
10:57<@petern:#openttd>"- removed unnecessary "optimization" (rebuild and sort engine list on each WE_P
10:58<@petern:#openttd>AINT)"
10:58<@petern:#openttd>hehe
10:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>problem i can see with "static" curve handling is switches...
10:59<@petern:#openttd>whatever happened to 'look-ahead' with pbs... hmm
10:59<Roujin:#openttd>glx: well for the flags idea I guess I'd have to make a little struct containing the item itself and its flag (show/don't show) and then use a SmallVector of this struct instead of the desired item itself
10:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>possibly railtypes could have a property "main speed" and "branch speed", branch speed is taken when on a tile with multiple track bits, and a curve is in the path
11:00<Zuu:#openttd>Roujin: In bulid sign list function, for each entry call the filter-function, and ask it if the item should be added or not.
11:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>standard tracks could then have something like 100km/h main speed, and 40km/h branch speed
11:00<Zuu:#openttd>(item == entry)
11:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>high speed tracks could have different values, but insanely more expensive switches
11:01<NukeBuster:#openttd>any msvc users here?
11:01<Zuu:#openttd>what is the question?
11:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no.
11:01<Roujin:#openttd>Zuu: I'd rather not do this, but apply the filter once to the whole list, and only when the filter changes (or is enabled/disabled), not everytime I want to get some item out of the list
11:02<thingwath:#openttd>with current openttd economy there is nothing like 'expensive', eventually, you can afford anything :)
11:02<Zuu:#openttd>Hmm, reading from the list shouldn't require it to be rebuilt.
11:02<Zuu:#openttd>Only when data changes.
11:03<Roujin:#openttd>Zuu: uhm, I think we are talking about different things.. you're specific about the sign list, right?
11:03<+glx:#openttd>NukeBuster: just ask :)
11:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>thingwath: that's a different balancing issue, and i did propose a solution for that
11:03<NukeBuster:#openttd>I was doing a private msg.
11:03<Zuu:#openttd>Roujin: The sign list is the only list I've used specificly with.
11:03<NukeBuster:#openttd>but i'll ask here
11:03<Zuu:#openttd>And that one is only rebulit when data changes.
11:03<NukeBuster:#openttd>The issue is I have a plugins file which i like to be configured by cmake to set the right values. I want to know if msvc can do the same?
11:03<Roujin:#openttd>ah yes, but I want to do something generic that can then be used on any GUIList
11:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>thingwath: in any game you should be able to eventually afford anything, otherwise there's stuff in the game that can't be reached
11:03<NukeBuster:#openttd>i don't want every commit to have plugins.cfg attached because it got replaced
11:04<Zuu:#openttd>NukeBuster: No idea, never used plugins with msvc.
11:04<@petern:#openttd>Roujin: same applies to other lists
11:04<+glx:#openttd>NukeBuster: no idea either
11:04<NukeBuster:#openttd>the plugins aren't for msvc but for the app
11:05<NukeBuster:#openttd>the issue is that linux has a different dir i want to insert on compile time
11:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>NukeBuster: so you want to autogenerate files on compile? how about you look at the code that makes version detection in openttd?
11:05<NukeBuster:#openttd>I can do it with cmake
11:05<NukeBuster:#openttd>ah ok, thanks
11:06<Roujin:#openttd>Okay, I think I've understood what you mean now..
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11:08<thingwath:#openttd>Rubidium: yes, of course, but you still should think about the price, whether a cheaper solution wouldn't be enough, in openttd, you aren't :)
11:10<Roujin:#openttd>but (if I understand correctly what you mean) that means every time the filter changes I have to rebuild the list...
11:11<@petern:#openttd>yup
11:11<@petern:#openttd>not a big issue
11:11<@petern:#openttd>you don't have to rebuild it
11:11<@petern:#openttd>the rest of the code'll do that
11:12<Zuu:#openttd>The window code that uses the GUIList will need to call rebuild yes, but that shouldn't be an issue as filter don't change without some code asking for it to change.
11:12<Roujin:#openttd>hmm but in the case of the content list, doesn't that imply connecting to the server again and getting all that stuff?
11:13<Zuu:#openttd>In that case it might be usefull to have a local copy yes.
11:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how do i disable a certain AI personality from appearing?
11:15<@petern:#openttd>hmm
11:15<@petern:#openttd>that might be the only case, heh
11:15<Roujin:#openttd>because the content list is what I originally had in mind for filtering...
11:15<Zuu:#openttd>Should apply to the list in multiplayer list alos that is quiried from the master server.
11:15<Zuu:#openttd> /alos/also/
11:16<el_en:#openttd>and /quiried/...
11:18<Roujin:#openttd>so that's why I didn't want to just delete stuff from the GUIList, only because it's currently filtered out by a filter
11:18<Roujin:#openttd>but rather have a second "complete" list available
11:19<Zuu:#openttd>So either we have to have a cache for network-related lists or a more generic cache for all lists.
11:25<Roujin:#openttd>so... such a second list I am imagining is a no-go?
11:25<@petern:#openttd>you either need a second list or a list of what to show
11:26<@petern:#openttd>the modify the iteration to exclude what shouldn't be shown
11:26<@petern:#openttd>(or a list of what should be shown, same thing)
11:26<@petern:#openttd>hm
11:27<@petern:#openttd>thing is
11:27<@petern:#openttd>that's what the guilist is meant to be anyway
11:27<+glx:#openttd>an item flag should work too ;)
11:27<Roujin:#openttd>glx: how would you do this flag idea?
11:28<+glx:#openttd>iterate the list and mark items visible or not depending on the filter
11:28<+glx:#openttd>then on displaying check if it should be drawn or not
11:28<Roujin:#openttd>to mark them, the items need a flag attached to them..
11:29<Roujin:#openttd>so I haven't a SmallVector<T> anymore but a SmallVector<HelperStruct>, where HelperStruct contains T and the flag
11:29<Roujin:#openttd>correct?
11:31<+glx:#openttd>you can store whatever you want in GUIList
11:33<Roujin:#openttd>yes, I underatand that.. hmm, it's hard to express what I mean...
11:33<+glx:#openttd>but std::pair<T, bool> shoud work
11:36<+glx:#openttd>hmm probably not
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11:38<Roujin:#openttd>to be honest, it bothers me that the GUIList "is a" SmallVector of its contents, and not "has a"
11:40<+glx:#openttd>hmm it could be a SmallMap
11:41<Roujin:#openttd>I don't get why it has to be like this, and it means changing the code in all places where a GUIList is used if implementing the flag idea if I see it correctly. or atlternatively override all kinds of functions provided by SmallVector
11:42<Alberth:#openttd>Roujin: you could also have a 2nd 'next' pointer for the visible items
11:43<Roujin:#openttd>Alberth: the code that currently uses such lists doesn't even use next pointers but just a pointer that is incremented...
11:44<Alberth:#openttd>It's not a pointer, it's an iterator object looking by your for-loop code example
11:45<Roujin:#openttd>typedef const ContentInfo * const * ConstContentIterator;
11:45<Alberth:#openttd>how the iterator decides '++' is not in the for-loop but in the ConstContentIterator::operator++()
11:46<Alberth:#openttd>(but yes, a pointer could be 1 form of iterator)
11:47<Roujin:#openttd>see my last line: If I don't understand something wrong that means it is just a pointer, not a kind of "sophisticated" iterator :)
11:50<Roujin:#openttd>ah wait, you mean I could change this iterator into something more sophisticated..
11:51<Alberth:#openttd>Roujin: yeah, that's what I meant.
11:51<Alberth:#openttd>That's one of the ideas behind STL
11:52<Zuu:#openttd>Then wouldn't you need to compare against the filter every time you re-paint the list? But I guess, either you have to have a copy of the entire list or you have to check against the filter at every read.
11:53<Roujin:#openttd>Zuu: nah, not check against the filter, but combine every item of the list with a boolean flag, and check that flag
11:54<Alberth:#openttd>Zuu: checking a boolean flag 'visible' is quite cheap. If that's too expensive, build a 2nd 'next' pointer to the next visible item
11:54<Zuu:#openttd>Oh, yes checking against a flag won't cost much.
11:54<+glx:#openttd>the problem is how to add the flag
11:55<Alberth:#openttd>you could even move all visible items 'up' against each other
11:55<Zuu:#openttd>And we are working with GUILists now, which shouldn't be that performance critic. Usually they are only repainted when they change anyway.
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12:00<@petern:#openttd>pom te pom
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12:48<@petern:#openttd>is that so?
12:50<FauxFaux:#openttd>Pon de replay.
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14:04<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... how do I get on a server a list of available AI which I can start?
14:06<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: glx * r15270 /trunk/src/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change [API CHANGE]: remove AIEventTest
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14:27<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15271 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp table/elrail_data.h table/sprites.h): -Codechange: Use offsets for drawing elrail wires & pylons instead of absolute sprite IDs.
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15:16<fjb:#openttd>Hello
15:16<kd5pbo:#openttd>fjb: Hi
15:23<welshdragon:#openttd>hmm
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15:25*welshdragon:#openttd thinks he will get an error when installing openttd
15:25<@petern:#openttd>you will?
15:25<welshdragon:#openttd>also, the website keeps saying 'network timeout/
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15:25<@petern:#openttd>which website?
15:25<welshdragon:#openttd>petern, as i don't have any of the graphics
15:26<welshdragon:#openttd>www.openttd.org
15:26<@petern:#openttd>works for me
15:26<welshdragon:#openttd>The operation timed out when attempting to contact binaries.openttd.org.
15:28<welshdragon:#openttd>petern, as i don't have any ttd graphics installed
15:28<@petern:#openttd>you can install opengfx
15:28<@petern:#openttd>the installer doesn't need them
15:29<welshdragon:#openttd>link/
15:29<@petern:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=40162
15:29<@Rubidium:#openttd>welshdragon: it's probably the great firewall of Wales
15:30<welshdragon:#openttd>Rubidium, i'm in hull
15:30<@petern:#openttd>the welshdragon is an expatriot
15:30<@petern:#openttd>(not to be confused with an xml library)
15:30<welshdragon:#openttd>actually, it's to be expected here
15:31<@petern:#openttd>what did you want, the latest nightly?
15:31<@petern:#openttd>or 0.6.3?
15:31<welshdragon:#openttd>i'm going to run both
15:32<Zuu:#openttd>0.6.3 will not work with OpenGFX as far as I know.
15:32<kd5pbo:#openttd>What's the differences between the current nightly and 0.6.3?
15:33<+glx:#openttd>a lot :)
15:33<Prof_Frink:#openttd>noai, pbs, bananas
15:33<Zuu:#openttd>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/New_Features_Since_0.6.0
15:34<welshdragon:#openttd>where can i get graphics for 0.6.3?
15:34<Zuu:#openttd>From the TTD cd
15:34<welshdragon:#openttd>don't have 1
15:34<planetmaker:#openttd>then buy it
15:35<welshdragon:#openttd>...meh
15:35*welshdragon:#openttd gets ttdpatch
15:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>welshdragon: ttdpatch nightlies?
15:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>good luck ;)
15:35<planetmaker:#openttd>hm...
15:35<@petern:#openttd>ttdpatch also needs a certain CD...
15:35<Zuu:#openttd>ttdpatch will neither work without TTD graphics as far as I know.
15:35*planetmaker:#openttd wonders how welshdragon will play ttdpatch without ttdp...
15:35<welshdragon:#openttd>not if you know where to look
15:36<planetmaker:#openttd>it's a patch after all, you know...
15:36<planetmaker:#openttd>ah... :) well. then look properly. You might solve you Openttd problem, too
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15:37<welshdragon:#openttd>...and i have TTD
15:38<planetmaker:#openttd>so... where's the problem?
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15:38<welshdragon:#openttd>there sin't now :D
15:39<Zuu:#openttd>copy the gm directory if you like to have the wonderfull music from TTD also. :)
15:48<Elukka:#openttd>i used to have sounds and music on but i recently turned them off
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16:01<Aali:#openttd>@commit 13752
16:01<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Aali: Commit by rubidium :: r13752 /trunk/src (4 files) (2008-07-20 07:41:43 UTC)
16:01<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Aali: -Fix [FS#2130]: correctly restore conditional orders when they are put 'into' backup.
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16:02<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Hello all
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16:04<frosch123:#openttd>night all
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16:18<DASPRiD:#openttd>dihedral, yt?
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16:20<dihedral:#openttd>yep
16:20<dihedral:#openttd>sup dog
16:20<DASPRiD:#openttd>dihedral, pm
16:21<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
16:21<planetmaker:#openttd>?
16:21<planetmaker:#openttd>night Wolf
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16:42<kd5pbo:#openttd>So, I'm trying to build the latest nightly under OpenSolaris
16:44<SmatZ:#openttd>kd5pbo: I think you need to run "bash ./configure --without-makedepend ; gmake"
16:44<kd5pbo:#openttd>I did.
16:44<kd5pbo:#openttd>Oh, not gmake.
16:44<kd5pbo:#openttd>Lemme try that.
16:44<Elukka:#openttd>hmm...
16:44<Elukka:#openttd>more advanced random maps would be awesome
16:44<Elukka:#openttd>although the current one is about.. many times better than the default generator
16:46<smeding_:#openttd>i've never tried the default generator except for playing TTD when i was little
16:46<smeding_:#openttd>(well, littler)
16:46<smeding_:#openttd>and i'm not sure if i want to see what it produces :)
16:47-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
16:47<Elukka:#openttd>ugly things :D
16:47<Elukka:#openttd>something like what dwarf fortress has would be awesome
16:47<Elukka:#openttd>mountains, rivers, oceans, lakes, forests
16:47<Elukka:#openttd>more variation
16:48<kd5pbo:#openttd>gmake didn't make a difference.
16:48<SmatZ:#openttd>kd5pbo: and --disable-strip ... at least those works on sparc with sunos
16:48<SmatZ:#openttd>but I guess you don't have sparc...
16:48<SmatZ:#openttd>kd5pbo: what's the problem?
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>Intel.
16:49-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-17-237.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>I did strip
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>http://paste.openttd.org/179188
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>Is the output.
16:49<SmatZ:#openttd>hmm it's broken ;)
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>Really?
16:49*SmatZ:#openttd svn exports...
16:49<kd5pbo:#openttd>Wow...
16:50<kd5pbo:#openttd>strndup is a library function, right?
16:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>yes
16:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>it should be available when _GNU_SOURCE is set according to strndup's manual
16:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>apparantly your environment sets _GNU_SOURCE but doesn't provide strndup
16:52<kd5pbo:#openttd>OpenSolaris is fun sometimes.
16:52<+glx:#openttd>#if defined(__MINGW32__) && defined(_GNU_SOURCE)
16:52<+glx:#openttd>,.../* For some weird reasons, SDL defines _GNU_SOURCE */
16:52<+glx:#openttd>,...#undef _GNU_SOURCE
16:52<+glx:#openttd>#endif
16:53<+glx:#openttd>looks similar to your problem
16:54<kd5pbo:#openttd>Put this in ini.cpp?
16:54<+glx:#openttd>it's in stdafx.h
16:54<kd5pbo:#openttd>Which doesn't help, because I'm not using windows...
16:54<kd5pbo:#openttd>Rats.
16:55<+glx:#openttd>I know you are not using windows, I just showed the fix I needed for mingw :)
16:55<@petern:#openttd>SmatZ might like that one, but I dunno
16:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15272 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp:
16:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Check that engine types of vehicles are valid and for the correct
16:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: type on loading a game. This prevents a crash/assertion failure if required
16:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: NewGRFs are not available. This won't make the game playable, but will let you
16:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: see what NewGRFs are required.
16:56<kd5pbo:#openttd>Ah.
16:57<+glx:#openttd>kd5pbo: you can try to build a dedicated version to see if it works
16:57<kd5pbo:#openttd>I will.
16:57<kd5pbo:#openttd>Is there a way to pass a don't define parameter to gcc.
16:57<@petern:#openttd>buggy SDL is buggy?
16:57<kd5pbo:#openttd>Something like a -D in reverse?
16:57<+glx:#openttd>it's SDL
16:58<kd5pbo:#openttd>Is there any file in which I can undefine _GNU_SOURCE once?
16:58<+glx:#openttd>sdl-config --cflags
16:58<Elukka:#openttd>what's the main obstacle for real curved tracks? coding or lack of sprites?
16:59<+glx:#openttd>kd5pbo: yes stdafx.h
16:59<@petern:#openttd>1) lack of code 2) lack of sprites 3) lack of interest 4) abundance of lack
17:00<Elukka:#openttd>:/
17:00<Elukka:#openttd>sprites would be easier with 32bpp since you could just make more renders, right?
17:00<@petern:#openttd>no
17:00<Elukka:#openttd>no?
17:00<@petern:#openttd>32bpp has nothing to do with 'rendering'
17:01<Elukka:#openttd>i thought they were done in blender
17:01<+glx:#openttd>32bpp just replaces existing 8bpp sprites
17:01<@petern:#openttd>sprites are sprites
17:01<@petern:#openttd>you can 'render' 8bpp sprites
17:01<Elukka:#openttd>i got the idea most are just drawn
17:02<@petern:#openttd>and you can 'just draw' 32bpp sprites too
17:02<@petern:#openttd>so 8bpp vs 32bpp is irrelevant
17:02<Elukka:#openttd>right
17:02<kd5pbo:#openttd>I've undefined _GNU_SOURCE, we'll see if it works.
17:02<Elukka:#openttd>i really ought to try making some 32bpp sprites
17:03<+glx:#openttd>kd5pbo: what is the output of "sdl-config --cflags" for you ?
17:03<@petern:#openttd>anyway, sprites are not really an issue
17:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>-I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT
17:03<@petern:#openttd>the huge amount of code changes is
17:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>Interesting.
17:03<SmatZ:#openttd>what I can say: "./configure --disable-strip --without-makedepend && gmake" compiles on "SunOS sunray1 5.10 Generic_137111-07 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T1000"
17:04<kd5pbo:#openttd>I wrote a small program to see if _GNU_SOURCE was defined and it wasn't.
17:04<+glx:#openttd>SmatZ: do you have SDL ?
17:04<SmatZ:#openttd>glx: yes
17:04<Elukka:#openttd>simple models would be easy in sketchup... its textures that could pose a problem
17:04<SmatZ:#openttd>runs fine over ssh :-D
17:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>I reckon we should strip the _GNU_SOURCE from the sdl-config result
17:05<@Rubidium:#openttd>http://rbijker.net/openttd/fk_sdl.diff <- like so
17:05-!-DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<SmatZ:#openttd>and it loads a TTO savegame ^_^ (it's a big endian machine)
17:05<@petern:#openttd>can you put an "SDL is fucking stupid" in there too?
17:05<@petern:#openttd>SmatZ, why does that surprise you? :(
17:05<SmatZ:#openttd>Assertion failed: rect.top == st->rect.bottom, file /bags/sojkaz1/openttd-ex3/src/station_cmd.cpp, line 612
17:06<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: wasn't there someone complaining about cursing in the surce code?
17:06<SmatZ:#openttd>petern: I coded it :)
17:06<SmatZ:#openttd>so it doesn't run :'-(
17:06<@petern:#openttd>Rubidium, not enougH?
17:06<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: like in the updated diff?
17:07*Rubidium:#openttd was lazy
17:07<@petern:#openttd>lol
17:07<SmatZ:#openttd>though, most of that TTO code reused code of TTD loader...
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17:08<kd5pbo:#openttd>ini.cpp compiled
17:09<+glx:#openttd>kd5pbo: now try a clean trunk with Rubidium's patch
17:09<@Rubidium:#openttd>glx: can you try the updated diff with mingw?
17:10<+glx:#openttd>I did already :)
17:10<@petern:#openttd>uh, yeah, remove that line yea? :P
17:10<+glx:#openttd>was my first try
17:10<@Rubidium:#openttd>glx: really?
17:10<kd5pbo:#openttd>trunk == nightly?
17:10<@Rubidium:#openttd>as I just updated
17:10<+glx:#openttd>I commented out stdafx.h lines
17:11<@Rubidium:#openttd>ah, okay
17:11<+glx:#openttd>compiled fine
17:12<planetmaker:#openttd>kd5pbo: even newer :)
17:12<planetmaker:#openttd>checkout from source repository
17:12<kd5pbo:#openttd>Will do.
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17:16<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15273 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: OSK of the chat did not update the caret graphics
17:16*Zuu:#openttd waves for Rubidium
17:19<@Rubidium:#openttd>free out sourcing of waving ;) Must be a bad economical season
17:20<@petern:#openttd>http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE50M4XT20090123
17:20<kd5pbo:#openttd>Ok, how do I apply the patch.
17:21<kd5pbo:#openttd>I've had a lapse of memory, it seems.
17:22<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: it's waiting for the translator to say he has done it and the execution of the robber
17:23-!-Elukka [~elukka.el@bb-89-166-45-150.dsl.phnet.fi] has quit []
17:29<kd5pbo:#openttd>patch -p1 < fk_sdl.diff doesn't seem to work
17:30<kd5pbo:#openttd>Nor does patch < fk_sdl.diff
17:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>try -p0
17:30<kd5pbo:#openttd>Put the patch in /trunk?
17:31<kd5pbo:#openttd>Worked.
17:32<Zuu:#openttd>I started out good with my Widget Focus thread, I think. Used images to not wirte to much un-understandable text. but then I started to write a bit... :-D
17:32<Zuu:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41591
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17:41<kd5pbo:#openttd>Well, first attempt at a make failed.
17:41<kd5pbo:#openttd>I ran out of virtual memory.
17:43<kd5pbo:#openttd>It compiled just fine, now I've link errors:
17:43<kd5pbo:#openttd>http://paste.openttd.org/179190
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17:45<@Rubidium:#openttd>rather looks like warnings
17:45<kd5pbo:#openttd>Yeah.
17:45<kd5pbo:#openttd>make run complained it couldn't find sample.cat.
17:45<kd5pbo:#openttd>Forgot to put in graphics files.
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17:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>kd5pbo: the warning is harmless; gcc just leaves a little too much data behind when discarding bits of duplicate code
17:50<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15274 /trunk/src/saveload/ (oldloader.cpp oldloader.h oldloader_sl.cpp): -Fix (r8705): oldloader wasn't updated to use 64bit airport_flags
17:50<SmatZ:#openttd>fixed :)
17:50<kd5pbo:#openttd>Rubidium: Good to know.
17:52<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15275 /trunk/ (config.lib src/stdafx.h): -Fix: SDL adds _GNU_SOURCE to the defined macros even when the compiler doesn't provide the functions promised when that define exists...
17:57<kd5pbo:#openttd>Works!
17:57<kd5pbo:#openttd>Whee!
17:57-!-rtypo [tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd
17:58<kd5pbo:#openttd>Only problem is that now I've not got the same version as my roommates.
17:58-!-unfrickable [~PC@201.170.83.182] has joined #openttd
17:59<planetmaker:#openttd>have them update :)
17:59<planetmaker:#openttd>pays off usually. Especially currently.
17:59<kd5pbo:#openttd>To the svn version?
17:59<planetmaker:#openttd>choose a nightly version.
17:59<kd5pbo:#openttd>They're mac users.
17:59<planetmaker:#openttd>then they most probably can download w/o compile
17:59<unfrickable:#openttd>Over 80% of NEGROS lack the latest mutations on Haplogroup D that allow for higher though processes. Learn even more facts about the people that hail from the Dark Continent by joining Chimpout!! http://www.chimpout.com/forum/index.php At chimpout.com all races that aren't Negroid are welcome. We love and respect Asians, Whites, Indians, Native Americans, Mestizos, and non-negroid Jews (no Samm
17:59<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah. well then
17:59<unfrickable:#openttd>y Davis Jr.s). Join us in the epic battle of humans vs niiiggggeeers. http://www.chimpout.com/forum/index.php
18:00<planetmaker:#openttd>@kick unfrickable
18:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>They're scared of compiling.
18:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>Found a bug.
18:00<kd5pbo:#openttd>Oh, ok.
18:00<SmatZ:#openttd>@kban unfrickable
18:00-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~PC@201.170.83.182] by DorpsGek
18:00-!-unfrickable was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [SmatZ]
18:00<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>People still spam like that? Wow, been years since I've seen that.
18:00<planetmaker:#openttd>kd5pbo: Mac is no problem. Versions from 10.3.9 on afaik. I compile myself though
18:00<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
18:01<el_en:#openttd>TinoDidriksen: the second time this month on this channel.
18:01<planetmaker:#openttd>3rd time I see this chimp post his racist scam
18:01<kd5pbo:#openttd>The music won't paly.
18:01<kd5pbo:#openttd>Cool.
18:01<kd5pbo:#openttd>The music isn't a huge issue.
18:01<@Rubidium:#openttd>kd5pbo: don't read the readme
18:01<planetmaker:#openttd>kd5pbo: you need sample.cat. You have it?
18:01<kd5pbo:#openttd>Yep
18:02<el_en:#openttd>He (or it) was from Mexico... Or the botnet node was from Mexico.
18:02<kd5pbo:#openttd>What's in the readme that I should ignore?
18:02<kd5pbo:#openttd>ignore*
18:02<Zuu:#openttd>Music is in the gm folder
18:02<kd5pbo:#openttd>Got it.
18:02<Zuu:#openttd>And you have placed the gm folder NOT in your data dir?
18:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>it's in ~/.openttd
18:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>do you have timidity?
18:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>The music player cycles through tracks fast.
18:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>No idea.
18:03<kd5pbo:#openttd>Lemme look.
18:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>chance is pretty high you don't
18:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>otherwise the music would play ;)
18:03-!-frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba135f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
18:04<kd5pbo:#openttd>Now, let's take bets on whether it's in a repository somewhere.
18:04<SmatZ:#openttd>ok, trunk compiles on SunOS fine
18:04<kd5pbo:#openttd>Yep.
18:04<kd5pbo:#openttd>I've not played much.
18:04<kd5pbo:#openttd>The changes since the latest stable version look nice.
18:07<kd5pbo:#openttd>The Blastwave repository had it.
18:08<planetmaker:#openttd>he. New supported platform, eh?
18:08<planetmaker:#openttd>anyway. Good night all!
18:08*planetmaker:#openttd waves
18:08<Nite_Owl:#openttd>later planetmaker
18:09<SmatZ:#openttd>good night planetmaker, I am going to bed too :)
18:09<Nite_Owl:#openttd>later SmatZ
18:09<SmatZ:#openttd>good night, Nite_Owl :-)
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18:22<+glx:#openttd>I need a volunteer to test a script
18:24<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>Sounds dangerous...
18:24<+glx:#openttd>only if it works :)
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18:30<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>Waffles are great at chimpout.com ! Now with free butter!
18:30-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] by DorpsGek
18:30-!-TinoDidriksen was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [TinoDidriksen]
18:30<+glx:#openttd>@op
18:30-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
18:31-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] by glx
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18:31<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>Works
18:31<@glx:#openttd>thanks
18:31<@glx:#openttd>it reacts faster than any op can :)
18:31<@glx:#openttd>@deop
18:31-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
18:35<el_en:#openttd>does it require you to be online?
18:36-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:37<+glx:#openttd>it does
18:37-!-Sacro|Mac [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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18:37<+glx:#openttd>but it's better than nothing
18:37<el_en:#openttd>it's the Sacro-Macintosh cyborg!
18:37<Sacro|Mac:#openttd>Yeah
18:37<Sacro|Mac:#openttd>heh, trying colloquy
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18:38<+glx:#openttd>did you find your (at) key?
18:38<+glx:#openttd>too late
18:38<Sacro:#openttd>glx: yes
18:38<Sacro:#openttd>@ :D
18:39<Sacro:#openttd>I had option set as meta ticked
18:39<Sacro:#openttd>which allowed me to use alt+num to change window
18:39<Sacro:#openttd>but disabled the whole ¡€#¢∞§¶•ªº
18:39<el_en:#openttd>that's why people use esc+num.
18:42-!-frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba135f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:42<el_en:#openttd>does the n-word now result in a ban, too?
18:42<+glx:#openttd>n-word?
18:42<svip:#openttd>The word that is banned in New York.
18:43<el_en:#openttd>the "nigger, v. 1. a. trans. To section off (a log, etc.) by burning or charring at intervals." word.
18:44<el_en:#openttd>apparently not.
18:44<+glx:#openttd>no, it's hard to catch
18:44<+glx:#openttd>they tend to duplicate letters to prevent that
18:44-!-Booth [~Booth@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
18:44<+glx:#openttd>but the url is always the same ;)
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18:51<RS-SM:#openttd>...
18:51<RS-SM:#openttd>what
18:51<RS-SM:#openttd>anyway
18:51<RS-SM:#openttd>what ngrf do you like the most
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19:12<rtypo:#openttd>#
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19:45<flikkflakk:#openttd>can someone tell me why my friend get all those black textures?
19:45<flikkflakk:#openttd>http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2679/hahauq9.jpg
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19:48<FauxFaux:#openttd>Looks like blitter fail to me.. wait, is that 9x?
19:48<Aali:#openttd>no thats opengfx
19:49<Aali:#openttd>just uninstall it and the original TTD graphics will come back
19:49<Aali:#openttd>assuming you had those before
19:49<flikkflakk:#openttd>it's strange, cause I just .rar'ed my ttd and sent it to him, I don't have any problems
19:50<flikkflakk:#openttd>he is using winxp, I'm on vista
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20:04<SpComb:#openttd>blit blit blit
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20:14<kd5pbo:#openttd>Hey folks.
20:14<kd5pbo:#openttd>I managed to build the latest nightly, but I can't join a lan game.
20:15<kd5pbo:#openttd>I can't even find it.
20:15<kd5pbo:#openttd>The server is running the latest nightly.
20:16<kd5pbo:#openttd>The interesting part is where the version should go it says norev000
20:18<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>that means you did not use svn
20:18-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
20:18<kd5pbo:#openttd>No, I did not.
20:18<kd5pbo:#openttd>Nor did he.
20:19<kd5pbo:#openttd>We're both using r15269
20:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>./configure --help
20:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>tells what you can do to override the norev000
20:19<kd5pbo:#openttd>Would that cause me to not see his game?
20:20<RS-SM:#openttd>hmm
20:20<kd5pbo:#openttd>Using what I built from trunk, I could see it, but I had a version mismatch.
20:20<RS-SM:#openttd>anyway, odd question, are there any ngrfs with new boats? and what are you compling for?
20:21<kd5pbo:#openttd>No ngrfs, opensolaris
20:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, look on grfcrawler
20:21<kd5pbo:#openttd>Oh.
20:21<kd5pbo:#openttd>I'm not using any, I mean.
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20:22<kd5pbo:#openttd>Now I can't see him in the trunk build
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 26 00:00:30 2009