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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-29

---Logopened Thu Jan 29 00:00:35 2009
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01:48<spacecadetnow:#openttd>hello
01:48<prideland:#openttd>hi
01:48<prideland:#openttd>anyone here?
01:50<prideland:#openttd>y
01:51-!-evandar [~evandar@trashcan.g8mb.cz] has joined #openttd
01:51<prideland:#openttd>hello evendar
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01:58<spacecadetnow:#openttd>dcc delete
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01:59<prideland:#openttd>yes
02:01<prideland:#openttd>dcc get spacecadet
02:03<prideland:#openttd>1
02:03<prideland:#openttd>1
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02:30<ccfreak2k:#openttd>I visited bananas.openttd.org.
02:30<dihedral:#openttd>morning
02:30<ccfreak2k:#openttd>I was a bit disappointed by the content found there.
02:31<dihedral:#openttd>why is that?
02:31-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.99.55] has joined #openttd
02:35<dihedral:#openttd>ccfreak2k, it is the authors choice to publish stuff via bananas
02:36<dihedral:#openttd>and some have already uploaded updates
02:36<dihedral:#openttd>and others will latest with the release of 0.7 realize that their work will hardly be used if not in bananas
02:36<Tefad:#openttd>bananas they're the shit?
02:37<ccfreak2k:#openttd>I was hoping to see bananas.
02:37<ccfreak2k:#openttd>:(
02:37<Tefad:#openttd>top right corner
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02:40<dihedral:#openttd>==5086== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 45 from 1)
02:40<dihedral:#openttd>==5086== malloc/free: in use at exit: 14,400,046 bytes in 1,187 blocks.
02:40<dihedral:#openttd>==5086== malloc/free: 3,829,168 allocs, 3,827,981 frees, 1,250,772,589,090 bytes allocated.
02:40<dihedral:#openttd>ops :-P
02:40<dihedral:#openttd>wrong window
02:42<@petern:#openttd>1.25TB
02:42<@petern:#openttd>?
02:43<dihedral:#openttd>23626 fairplay 16 0 389m 15m 3480 S 9 1.5 64:31.11 openttd
02:43<dihedral:#openttd>i have 1024MB mem on that machine
02:43-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-1-9.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:43<dihedral:#openttd>1.5% mem?
02:43<dihedral:#openttd>forget it :-P
02:43*dihedral:#openttd cannot calculate
02:43<Pikka:#openttd>I say I say I say
02:44<dihedral:#openttd>hello Pikka
02:44<Pikka:#openttd>hello
02:59<ccfreak2k:#openttd>Pikka
02:59<ccfreak2k:#openttd>(chu)
03:00<Pikka:#openttd>si
03:08<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15294 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: -Fix: accessing of inaccessible base
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03:22<|Japa|:#openttd>http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/oitemrdaiye57jqqvzpp.png
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03:52<planetmaker:#openttd>morning
03:52<dihedral:#openttd>hey ho
03:53<planetmaker:#openttd>how's going, dih? :)
03:53*dihedral:#openttd is sitting :-P
03:55<dihedral:#openttd>doing well pm, how about you?
03:56<planetmaker:#openttd>not bad either :)
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04:12<dihedral:#openttd>who is this Mark?
04:13<svip:#openttd>Which Mark?
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04:14<dihedral:#openttd>the one with the nick "Mark"
04:16<svip:#openttd>There are two.
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>no!
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>there is only with with the nick "Mark"
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>the other is Mark_
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>my word
04:16<planetmaker:#openttd>Mark_ is the real one :P
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>user!
04:16<dihedral:#openttd>yes - i know that :-P
04:17<dihedral:#openttd>Mark is just ideling in here....
04:17<planetmaker:#openttd>given the impressive nick list that can be said of 98% of the nicks here.
04:17<planetmaker:#openttd>And it doesn't matter, does it?
04:18<Roest:#openttd>why are you saying i'm idling?
04:18<planetmaker:#openttd>Roest: I said 98% :P
04:21<dihedral:#openttd>Roest, nobody mentioned your name, or am i mistaken?
04:21-!-Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:21<Roest:#openttd>i was joking dammit
04:21<dihedral:#openttd>:-(
04:21<dihedral:#openttd>what a pitty :-D
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04:23<Roest:#openttd>beside i saw svip, pm and dihedral talking, would have to count the nicks to determine if that's already 2% :P
04:24<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
04:24<svip:#openttd>:O
04:24<dihedral:#openttd>hihi
04:24<dihedral:#openttd>100 users, 3 makes more than 2% :-D
04:28<worldemar:#openttd>hehe)
04:28<@petern:#openttd>stupid customer
04:28<@petern:#openttd>"can you clear out my mailbox"
04:28<@petern:#openttd>ok
04:28<@petern:#openttd>"arrrrr! all my emails gone"
04:28<@petern:#openttd>well duh
04:28<worldemar:#openttd>>_<
04:28<planetmaker:#openttd>^-°
04:28<@petern:#openttd>fortunately i am clever and kept a backup :p
04:29<dihedral:#openttd>hihi
04:29<dihedral:#openttd>amusing :-P
04:29<@petern:#openttd>FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
04:29<@petern:#openttd>putty
04:29<@petern:#openttd>1680x1050
04:30<@petern:#openttd>fullscreen
04:30<dihedral:#openttd>hihi
04:30<edeca:#openttd>petern: Time to play with figlet ;)
04:30<@petern:#openttd>hmmmmmmmm
04:30<worldemar:#openttd>time to breakfast >:]
04:30*worldemar:#openttd gone to kitchen
04:32<@petern:#openttd>lol
04:32<@petern:#openttd>toilet --gay
04:33-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.99.55] has joined #openttd
04:38<dihedral:#openttd>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/patches/no_players.v2.r15290.patch
04:38<dihedral:#openttd>boot people joining with the default nick name (configurable)
04:39<Roest:#openttd>lol
04:39<dihedral:#openttd>it is so annoying when they join
04:39<dihedral:#openttd>and then best 5 at a time
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>perhaps a check to match the first chars of the client name, so nobody joines with Player #1 either
04:40<@petern:#openttd>tough
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>or check the nick when they change their nick
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>so they dont rename to Player
04:41<Roest:#openttd>i nver checked, is Player the default for every language?
04:41<planetmaker:#openttd>seems like
04:43<@petern:#openttd>better idea: make the default name be blank, and don't allow joining (server and client side) if it is left blank.
04:44<planetmaker:#openttd>but then there needs to be a possibility to set the nickname from the GUI and not the openttd.cfg from within the title screen.
04:44<planetmaker:#openttd>currently you can only change it from a running binary when ingame afaik.
04:44<@petern:#openttd>...
04:45<@petern:#openttd>...
04:45<@petern:#openttd>...
04:46<planetmaker:#openttd>err... mangled sentence.
04:46<planetmaker:#openttd>Nevertheless: you cannot change the nick in the join screen, can you?
04:46<@petern:#openttd>...
04:46*planetmaker:#openttd gives petern a few more pebles and dots.
04:46<@petern:#openttd>...
04:46<@petern:#openttd>...
04:47<planetmaker:#openttd>he... I guess you can? :)
04:47<@petern:#openttd>open the 'multiplayer' window
04:47<planetmaker:#openttd>At work it's a bit of a no-no. I always use autojoin :P
04:47<planetmaker:#openttd>sorry :)
04:48<@petern:#openttd>...
04:48<@petern:#openttd>a no-no?
04:48<@petern:#openttd>you can play the game but not open the lobby?
04:48<planetmaker:#openttd>I shouldn't start up OpenTTD on my workplace computer :)
04:48<@petern:#openttd>okay
04:48<@petern:#openttd>well its there
04:48<@petern:#openttd>in bright, er, black text
04:49<@petern:#openttd>"Player name:"
04:49<el_en:#openttd>its?
04:49<planetmaker:#openttd>he. sorry, yeah... I seem to recall faintly :)
04:49<@petern:#openttd>el_en, yes, I couldn't be bothered to correct it.
04:49<planetmaker:#openttd>correct?
04:49<planetmaker:#openttd>client name?
04:50<@petern:#openttd>what now?
04:50<planetmaker:#openttd>I wondered about what the error is with "Player name:" :)
04:50<dihedral:#openttd>petern, bank is good too
04:50<dihedral:#openttd>but making it an entry in the advanced settings would be good too
04:50<@petern:#openttd>so said there was an error with it?
04:50<@petern:#openttd>*who
04:51<dihedral:#openttd>interface -> multiplayer
04:51<planetmaker:#openttd>sorry, I thought you :P
04:51<@petern:#openttd>planetmaker, el_en was questioning me on "its" rather than "it's"
04:52<planetmaker:#openttd>-_-
04:57-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | 100% perfect English day.
04:58<@petern:#openttd>Hello there, el_en.
04:58<Roest:#openttd>eeek
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04:58<planetmaker:#openttd>urgs.
04:59<@petern:#openttd>Oh, okay...
04:59<Roest:#openttd>can't we make it google translation day?
04:59-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | 100% perfect English hour, 10am to 11am GMT.
04:59<@petern:#openttd>You've got one minute!
04:59-!-el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:59<@petern:#openttd>ah ha ha ha
04:59<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
05:00<@petern:#openttd>Maybe 11am to 12am GMT will be 100% perfect French hour?
05:00<Roest:#openttd>that's ok, i go to lunch then
05:00*planetmaker:#openttd will be silent the next two hours given the conditions ;)
05:01<Roest:#openttd>btw is it 11 GMT or 10 GMT right now?
05:01<planetmaker:#openttd>it should afaik
05:01<edeca:#openttd>I say dear chap, what's this "btw" you mention?
05:01<@petern:#openttd>It is 10am GMT, so it's just started.
05:01*edeca:#openttd goes for morning tea
05:01<planetmaker:#openttd>oh, it's one minute past the hour ;)
05:01<@petern:#openttd>Good idea, fellow.
05:02<dihedral:#openttd>petern, you should have done that when Ammler used to say a lot in here :-D
05:02*Roest:#openttd puts on his fake english accent
05:02<@petern:#openttd>@seen Ammler
05:02<@DorpsGek:#openttd>petern: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 14 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Ammler> heya dihedral
05:03<dihedral:#openttd>thanks for highlighting me :-P
05:03<@petern:#openttd>We all got highlighted.
05:03<dihedral:#openttd>all?
05:03<@petern:#openttd>Ammler, you, and I.
05:03<dihedral:#openttd>not like if you had said @nicks :-D
05:04<@petern:#openttd>Hmm, apparently I have a news server. How odd.
05:05<Roest:#openttd>That's better than thinking oyu have one and finding out you don't
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05:06<@petern:#openttd>Possibly. The server is nowhere near my network...
05:08<Roest:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41626
05:09<dihedral:#openttd>i want one of these: http://www.netbubbles.de/
05:09<Roest:#openttd>he uses W8 for wait where's the spelling and grammar police
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05:10<Roest:#openttd>i'm still looking for that toaster they showed us in the introductionary cs lecture, the one that get the weather forecast fromt he net and prints little suns or clouds on your toast
05:14<dihedral:#openttd>LOL
05:22-!-Dr_Jekyll [JavaUser@p57B0DB06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:23<Roest:#openttd>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/04/bread_as_a_display_device/
05:30<Mark:#openttd>dihedral: I'm not!
05:31<Mark:#openttd>I'm just so busy with playing OpenTTD all the time (atm I have 5 games running)
05:31<Roest:#openttd>lol
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05:32<dihedral:#openttd>Mark, i just never saw you here before ;-)
05:32<Mark:#openttd>;)
05:32<Mark:#openttd>I've been sitting here for a while now.
05:33<dihedral:#openttd>yes, hence i said ideling :-D
05:33<dihedral:#openttd>it's been days
05:33<Mark:#openttd>My first nick was MarkMc/markmc and then Markk
05:33<Mark:#openttd>But since Mark was free I took it :)
05:33<Mark:#openttd>(My name i Mark)
05:34<dihedral:#openttd>yes - i figured as much :-P
05:34<dihedral:#openttd>you playing any games online?
05:34<Mark:#openttd>;)
05:34<Mark:#openttd>Not much
05:34<Mark:#openttd>I'm thinking about starting with that :)
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05:38<dihedral:#openttd>short visit
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05:47<dihedral:#openttd>petern, the patch i posted earlier (no players) however is a good basis for a bad nick list ;-)
05:47<@petern:#openttd>no thanks
05:47<@petern:#openttd>Er, I mean...
05:47<@petern:#openttd>No thanks.
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06:18*edeca:#openttd returns from tea refreshed and rejuvenated
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06:23-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots
06:24<edeca:#openttd>petern: English hour is over?
06:24-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-233-2.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:24<@petern:#openttd>it's past 11am GMT so yeah it is
06:25<@petern:#openttd>come 'n 'ave a go if u think yer 'ard enough
06:26<edeca:#openttd>Now you just sound Northern :\
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06:26<@petern:#openttd>Oop t'North?
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08:04<jerker:#openttd>bye bye folks, dont have time to lurk here no more. continue the nice work with OpenTTD and keep building the best junctions there are!
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08:10<@petern:#openttd>takes a lot of time to lurk
08:11<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, I dedicate an hour a day to IRC lurking
08:12<dihedral:#openttd>and nobody is really interested in those junctions... so all that effort kinda was for the fuzzy rear end :P
08:12<Pikka:#openttd>who's got a fuzzy rear end?
08:12<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: What junctions were they?
08:13<dihedral:#openttd>ones for a fuzzy rear end :-D
08:13-!-Osai is now known as {Osai
08:13<dihedral:#openttd>they are in the wiki
08:13-!-{Osai is now known as Osai
08:13<edeca:#openttd>Pikka: Are there prizes?
08:13<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Ah, cool.
08:13<dihedral:#openttd>i have no idea what names he gave them
08:13<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: The generic "4 way" whatever ones?
08:13*dihedral:#openttd checks
08:14<dihedral:#openttd>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Half_Transmogrified
08:14<dihedral:#openttd>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Braided_Junction
08:14*edeca:#openttd invents the "4 dimensional n-way superbad clovercrossmergeogrifier"
08:14<dihedral:#openttd>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Transmogrified
08:15<edeca:#openttd>"The slopes and the sharp turns make trains go slower." - north american train set would kill that one :(
08:17<dihedral:#openttd>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/8_way_Star_Junction <- wtf
08:17<edeca:#openttd>Woah, someone call the rail police ;)
08:19<dihedral:#openttd>go five times round just to get to go straight ahead :-D
08:19<canidae:#openttd>one of my more political friends playing ottd wondered if there's a patch that makes the income depend on the distance from eg. the nearest powerplant/coal mine rather than the distance between the station coal is picked up on and the power station it's delivered to, anyone know something about this?
08:21<@petern:#openttd>gah, no junction templates are needed :o
08:21<dihedral:#openttd>yeah - get your political friend to join and express himself in a way one can understand it :-P
08:21<edeca:#openttd>petern: Actually it's useful to look at to learn from :)
08:21<@petern:#openttd>"what not to do"? :p
08:21<edeca:#openttd>petern: Yeah!
08:22<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Translation: "why isn't cargo payment based on the distance between industries, not distance travelled"
08:22<canidae:#openttd>what? despite some difficulty translating it's not _that_ hard to understand? :p
08:22<canidae:#openttd>edeca is clever :)
08:22<edeca:#openttd>Answer is probably that there is no (except cargodest) idea of where goods came from. But maybe I'm wrong.
08:23<edeca:#openttd>canidae: No, I just work with obscure people.
08:23<@petern:#openttd>you are wrong
08:23<edeca:#openttd>petern: Good.
08:23<edeca:#openttd>petern: I thought so, because I couldn't figure how payment would work otherwise (i.e. time in transit)
08:23<@petern:#openttd>cargo payment is *not* based on distance travelled...
08:23<canidae:#openttd>no, distance from station to station
08:23<canidae:#openttd>iirc
08:24<canidae:#openttd>but that means you can bypass several power stations as you earn more by longer distances (to a certain limit)
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08:25<Yexo:#openttd>canidae: just image your idea is implemented. Now you have a profitable coal mine -> powerplant route (say it's 150 tiles long). You get paid for the whole 150 tiles since there are no other close power plants / coal mines. At this moment a coal mine opens 20 tiles from the powerplant. Should you now only get paid for 20 tiles instead of 150?
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08:26<canidae:#openttd>Yexo: actually, i asked the very same question :)
08:26<Yexo:#openttd>canidae: no, you did not
08:26<canidae:#openttd>Yexo: his opinion is "yes, payment should drop"
08:26<canidae:#openttd>i asked him the same question :)
08:26<Yexo:#openttd>ah :)
08:27<canidae:#openttd>hmm, lemme check log. i think he said something more
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08:27<edeca:#openttd>Or perhaps you've got a supermega-steel mill bonanza with 50 feeding lines and 20 consumers, should you get less for delivering *further* to that rather than a local one?
08:28-!-Gekz__ is now known as Gekz
08:28<Yexo:#openttd>or you play with ECS vectors and want to deliver vehicles. (Nearly) all raw cargo industries accept them, but most of the time there are only 1/2 vehicle factories per map
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08:28<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: Heh, my current game has a car factory with a farm right next to it, I'd quite like a little more profit than 1 tile :)
08:28<dihedral:#openttd>is payment not based also on the rating of the cargo at the station, travel time, etc?
08:29<Yexo:#openttd>dihedral: no,only on travel time and distance between stations
08:29<Yexo:#openttd>between station flags actually
08:29<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: station flags?
08:29<Yexo:#openttd>station labels, the sign with the station name
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08:30*dihedral:#openttd hugs distant join stations
08:30<canidae:#openttd>he added "it's possible it should be based on that someone else delivers to a lower price"
08:30<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: Got it, thanks
08:30<dihedral:#openttd>to the same power plant or in the map canidae
08:30<Yexo:#openttd>canidae: I agree that the economic model of openttd could use some improvement, but it's not that simple
08:31<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Yeah, they lead to some interesting uses. Like building a 1x1 station (or even a pretty newgrf tile) next to an industry and the main station miles away. Same for stations in towns
08:31<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Though I try not to 'cheat' like that :)
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08:31<dihedral:#openttd>Yexo, how come then, if time did not matter, i could have a maglev line and a steamer line, and the mag lev makes more cash?
08:32<Yexo:#openttd>dihedral: travel times matters, just station rating does not
08:32<dihedral:#openttd>edeca: that is not cheating
08:32<canidae:#openttd>dihedral: either to the same power plant or from the same coal mine. i'm not sure what makes more sense, economics isn't my thing
08:32<dihedral:#openttd>and a pretty newgrf tile is also a station in those situations
08:32<Gekz:#openttd>dihedral: it is cheating lol.
08:32<dihedral:#openttd>Yexo, ah
08:32<dihedral:#openttd>it's not cheating
08:32<dihedral:#openttd>it's a feature
08:33<Yexo:#openttd>cheats are a feature too!
08:33<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Heh well it can be abused for interesting purposes :)
08:33<dihedral:#openttd>not that much though
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>it's merely an exploitable feature
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>thus a cheat.
08:33<dihedral:#openttd>Gekz, tell you something shall i?
08:33<@Rubidium:#openttd>well... just finish cargodest and then add the possibility for cargo to get destinations before they get to the station (i.e. destinations where there's no station yet like iirc simutrans)
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>all because it's a loophole doesnt make it ethically incorrect.
08:33<Gekz:#openttd>:)
08:34<dihedral:#openttd>i worked for a company where all rma requests (over 600 appliances) were shipped to taiwan and back, just for repairs, and we made a profit
08:34<dihedral:#openttd>the client never got to know that had happened
08:34<edeca:#openttd>Rubidium: I don't follow what you mean about "destinations where there's no station yet"?
08:34<Gekz:#openttd>Rubidium: 1200 people want to go to a town with the population of 8!
08:34<Gekz:#openttd>edeca: people want to go to a town
08:34<Gekz:#openttd>so you put a station there
08:34<edeca:#openttd>Gekz: Ah yes.
08:34<edeca:#openttd>Gekz: But would that show up as current demand, or potential but unfilled demand?
08:34<dihedral:#openttd>Geks: perhaps over the entire map yes :-P
08:34<edeca:#openttd>Gekz: i.e. does it affect your passenger rating?
08:34<@Rubidium:#openttd>'current' cargodest: when cargo gets to the 'origin' station it gets a destination somewhere reachable from that staton
08:35<Gekz:#openttd>edeca: meh.
08:35<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, which is tricky :-P
08:35<dihedral:#openttd>because sometimes it picks stations where the transport link cannot hold the load
08:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>what I propose is that it determines a destination to any place (reachable or not) as extra difficulty
08:35<dihedral:#openttd>subsidy sorted :-D
08:35<dihedral:#openttd>if there is no link for that route, you get the subsidy :-D
08:36<canidae:#openttd>Rubidium: that sounds pretty cool, would make the game more challenging
08:36<@Rubidium:#openttd>so no cargodest == easiest, cargodest to reachable station == 'medium', cargodest to any destination == hard
08:37<@Rubidium:#openttd>just means that someone needs to finish that
08:37<@Rubidium:#openttd>@seen someone
08:37<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Rubidium: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 0 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 45 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
08:37<edeca:#openttd>Rubidium: In hard mode, would you suggest that your rating is affected by not delivering then?
08:37<@Rubidium:#openttd>^ preferable that someone ;)
08:37<planetmaker:#openttd>Everyone wants someone to work on it which means effectively noone will do it :P
08:38*Rubidium:#openttd still has challenges enough without cargodest, so I don't need it
08:38<planetmaker:#openttd>@seen noone
08:38<@DorpsGek:#openttd>planetmaker: I have not seen noone.
08:39<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
08:39<canidae:#openttd>@seen anyone
08:39<@DorpsGek:#openttd>canidae: I have not seen anyone.
08:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>client_name planetmaker noone
08:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>dihedral: IT DOESN'T WORK! :(
08:39<@petern:#openttd>implement supply and demand...
08:40<@petern:#openttd>you set your own prices and the industries choose which to use :p
08:41<Yexo:#openttd>petern: seen http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41534 ?
08:45<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, hehe :-)
08:46<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, it's client_name <client-id> <new-name>
08:46<dihedral:#openttd>;-)
08:46-!-planetmaker is now known as noone
08:46*noone:#openttd also is present now
08:46*Rubidium:#openttd slaps noone into writing what noone wants to write
08:47<dihedral:#openttd>well, then you can do all the work noone
08:47<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, "wants" :-D
08:47*noone:#openttd doesn't do somebody's work :P
08:47<noone:#openttd>actually it's a registered nick :P
08:47<dihedral:#openttd>good, because it's anyones work actually :-P
08:47<dihedral:#openttd>lol
08:48<dihedral:#openttd>i should register 'nickserve' .... enough people mistype it when they want to identify :-D
08:48-!-noone is now known as planetmaker
08:49<planetmaker:#openttd>@seen noone
08:49<@DorpsGek:#openttd>planetmaker: noone was last seen in #openttd 1 minute and 38 seconds ago: <noone> actually it's a registered nick :P
08:49<planetmaker:#openttd>darn
08:49<dihedral:#openttd>you could have left a more clever nick
08:49<planetmaker:#openttd>message?
08:50<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah
08:52<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: That's quite cool (though the idea isn't explained well by the screenshots)
08:52<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: The economy throughout the year could also give rise to changing prices, could even possibly store some goods (e.g. wheat) in specialised stations
08:53<Yexo:#openttd>edeca: 1) It wasn't my idea nor my patch. 2) the patch is a complete mess
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08:58<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: Eh I just mean it's the beginnings of a good *idea*, implementation aside
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09:05<Elukka:#openttd>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/BlackMesa29thJun1945.png?t=1233237910
09:05<Elukka:#openttd>i think those are my longest trains so far..
09:08<SmatZ:#openttd>hmm I should play Half-Life once agaain...
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09:08<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Sheesh, do they even accelerate? :)
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09:08<Elukka:#openttd>i have 4x cargo weight
09:08<Elukka:#openttd>they go to full speed just after they clear the station
09:08<Elukka:#openttd>well, full speed is 88 kph...
09:09<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: And hills?
09:09<dihedral:#openttd>SmatZ, the oldie game or 2?
09:09<Elukka:#openttd>there's only one slope
09:10<Elukka:#openttd>those locos are powerful :P
09:10<edeca:#openttd>I'm starting to prefer more shorter trains in general, except for really long-haul
09:11<Elukka:#openttd>long trains look cooler :P
09:11<Elukka:#openttd>also, when that line was started there really wasnt money for more locos
09:12<SmatZ:#openttd>dihedral: both of them :) though I finished HL ~10 times, but HL2 only once ;)
09:13<SmatZ:#openttd>I was very impressed by HL speedrun :)
09:13<SmatZ:#openttd>http://speeddemosarchive.com/HalfLife.html#hardscripts finished HL in 31 minutes...
09:14<SmatZ:#openttd>impressive "hacks" ;)
09:15<dihedral:#openttd>SmatZ, i had scripts that would make hl2 go into bullet time, which was a bunch of fun too
09:15<dihedral:#openttd>just took longer to play :-D
09:16<SmatZ:#openttd>:-D
09:17<dihedral:#openttd>SmatZ, you also play css?
09:17<SmatZ:#openttd>dihedral: ont much, I didn't have original CD key...
09:17<dihedral:#openttd>...
09:17<SmatZ:#openttd>but CS is too boring for me :(
09:17<dihedral:#openttd>:-(
09:17<SmatZ:#openttd>I played UT99 a lot :)
09:18<@petern:#openttd>99?
09:19<SmatZ:#openttd>the original unreal tournament, not 2003, not 2004
09:19<@petern:#openttd>oh
09:19<@petern:#openttd>just "UT" then :p
09:19<SmatZ:#openttd>:)
09:19<@Belugas:#openttd>hell re-starts..
09:19<@petern:#openttd>hmm, i have it installed at thome
09:19<edeca:#openttd>petern: Are you eversoslightly pedantic in real life? :)
09:20<SmatZ:#openttd>I don't...
09:22<@petern:#openttd>-t :o
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09:28<canidae:#openttd>andy`: shoo!
09:28<andy`:#openttd>canidae: nu-uh
09:28<canidae:#openttd>:\
09:28<andy`:#openttd>:D
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10:16<@petern:#openttd>lol, another 'undo' thread...
10:16<edeca:#openttd>petern: Where?
10:17*edeca:#openttd is too lazy to look
10:20<dihedral:#openttd>yes, quite annoying
10:20<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>yes, quite ignoring
10:20-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:21<@petern:#openttd>Quite.
10:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"Trains have to turn right to go left." <- i wished they would scrap that sentence from every junction...
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10:25<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: You prefer "it's a bit backwards, guv" ?
10:25<lewymati:#openttd>hey
10:25<lewymati:#openttd>i have problem
10:25<lewymati:#openttd>im trying to play on LAN
10:26<lewymati:#openttd>after client join to my server
10:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>edeca: it is just irrelevant
10:26<lewymati:#openttd>its being disconected
10:26<lewymati:#openttd>"connection lost"
10:26<Roest:#openttd>but what if trains have to go right to go left
10:26<lewymati:#openttd>tryied already few times
10:26<lewymati:#openttd>what could be the reason?
10:26<Roest:#openttd>clinet is the same version?
10:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>all rail pathfinders handle the complete path
10:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so trains will not go lost
10:27<Roest:#openttd>client*
10:27<lewymati:#openttd>yes
10:27<SmatZ:#openttd>only YAPF does
10:27<Roest:#openttd>firewall settings?
10:28<lewymati:#openttd>hmm
10:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"Speculation of angled track in the nightly builds under existing bridges" <- that looks not very up to date :p
10:28<lewymati:#openttd>lemme check
10:28<lewymati:#openttd>firewall looks fine
10:30<lewymati:#openttd>ok, it was client firewall i guess
10:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: all train pathfinders are A* based, and find a path, if it exists
10:31<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>YAPF is mostly feature-equivalent to NPF. it is only optimised for speed
10:32<@petern:#openttd>major caching
10:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>NTP is also a complete pathfinder, but not very extendible, which was the reason for developing NPF
10:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and OTP was removed from pathfinder options long before i found out about OpenTTD
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10:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the only actual difference (except penalties) that i know of is that YAPF can handle paths that involve turning around in a depot
10:34<@petern:#openttd>hence ideas about removing NTP/NPF that got forgotten...
10:35<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Does anybody use those as a real path?
10:35<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: what about hash collisions?
10:35<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Does it help with forced servicing or something?
10:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: i don't understand the question.
10:35<SmatZ:#openttd>petern: http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/opf_ntp.diff not really forgotten...
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10:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>edeca: yes, forced servicing. some people seem to do that
10:36<@petern:#openttd>SmatZ, and NPF!
10:36<@petern:#openttd>is there any reason to have NPF?
10:36<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: NTP uses static tables when it's searching
10:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i don't know anything about the internals of NTP
10:37<SmatZ:#openttd>petern: actually, the major problem are ships...
10:37<SmatZ:#openttd>CPU load with many ships...
10:37<@petern:#openttd>SmatZ, that affects NPF too
10:37<@petern:#openttd>hence the original pathfinder is needed for ships
10:38<SmatZ:#openttd>petern: so you want to remove NPF and leave OPF only for ships?
10:38<@petern:#openttd>i'd *like* yapf for ships to be fixed...
10:38<SmatZ:#openttd>there are real-game scenarios where either one of PFs does the lowest CPU load
10:38<@petern:#openttd>while OTP is less intensive, it's .... urgh
10:38<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
10:39<@petern:#openttd>isn't YAPF helped by having buoys?
10:39<SmatZ:#openttd>it is
10:39<SmatZ:#openttd>so is OPF ... OPF won't find a path when buoys are too far from each other
10:39<@petern:#openttd>are they forced now? i believe originally with YAPF you could have orders at any distance...
10:39<@petern:#openttd>yes i know that
10:40<Aali:#openttd>you need bouys with YAPF now too
10:40<SmatZ:#openttd>I think they are forced when you create the order, but not when you remove the buoy in the middle
10:40<SmatZ:#openttd>and similiar situations
10:40<Aali:#openttd>right
10:41<SmatZ:#openttd>but it wouldn't be hard to just say "ship is lost" in the situation the next order's destination is too far
10:41<Aali:#openttd>I was just going to say that :)
10:41<SmatZ:#openttd>:o)
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10:42<Aali:#openttd>and if you do that, you can drop OPF completely
10:42<Aali:#openttd>YAPF is "good enough" with ships over small distances
10:43<@petern:#openttd>implicit buoys :p
10:43<@petern:#openttd>requires some kind of system to keep them up to date, for example if landscape changes
10:44<@petern:#openttd>hmm
10:44<SpComb:#openttd>static routing
10:44<@petern:#openttd>maybe not even that
10:44<@petern:#openttd>yes
10:44<@petern:#openttd>cached routes
10:44<Aali:#openttd>there's just one small problem, someone has to implement it :)
10:45<@petern:#openttd>Aali! such a good volunteer :D
10:45<@petern:#openttd>but then
10:45<@petern:#openttd>isn't yapf cached anyway?
10:45<Aali:#openttd>sorry, no interest in ships
10:45<@petern:#openttd>or ... that was the problem, it only caches nodes, and each water tile is a node?
10:45<Aali:#openttd>yapf caches rail layouts, no? not per-vehicle?
10:45<SmatZ:#openttd>YAPF is cached
10:45<SmatZ:#openttd>petern: I think so
10:46<SmatZ:#openttd>maybe even each trackdir is a node
10:46<@petern:#openttd>it's not
10:46<@petern:#openttd>junctions are
10:46<SmatZ:#openttd>but in water, there is a junction at each tile
10:46<@petern:#openttd>ye
10:46<@petern:#openttd>so can yapf cache a node list... hmm
10:47<SmatZ:#openttd> // YAPF type 1 - uses TileIndex/Trackdir as Node key, allows 90-deg turns
10:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Aali: yapf caches rail segments, i.e. continuous stripes of rail without junctions
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10:48<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: and signals?
10:48<Aali:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: which is what I meant to say
10:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: i think signal penalties are done differently
10:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i.e. the segment cost considers the signals, but not the signal state
10:49<Aali:#openttd>actual signal penalties are recalculated every time, no?
10:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i'm not sure
10:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Aali: for the first 10 signals, and the last signal, the signal state is calculated
10:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the number of 10 is configurable, i think
10:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i believe it was chosen with coop-style rail networks in mind, with signals every 2 tiles
10:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>with "sparse" signalling, you could probably get away with 2 or 3 signals
10:52<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>also, signal state is kind of meaningless with path signals
10:52<edeca:#openttd>Sheesh, signals every other tile?
10:52<@petern:#openttd>yes, idiots, the lot of them
10:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i believe the signal penalty calculation was not updated for the default-red signals
10:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>which may get you weird results
10:54<@petern:#openttd>hmm
10:54<+glx:#openttd>edeca: luckily it's now possible to build bridges over signals
10:54<@petern:#openttd>possilbe
10:54<@petern:#openttd>*possible
10:55<@petern:#openttd>argh, people :/
10:55<@petern:#openttd>"don't get a TN display, they suck"
10:56<@petern:#openttd>neglecting to mention that other types have more latency
10:57<edeca:#openttd>glx: Yeah, whoever implemented signals/diagonal track under bridges deserves a big thank you :)
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11:08<edeca:#openttd>Mm, I've just tried gnome for the first time in ages and it's actually quite nice
11:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that were tron and celestar, afair
11:08<@petern:#openttd>mostly tron
11:09<@Belugas:#openttd>and rushed in by celestar, against tron's permission. based on tron's opinion, it was not ready to hit trunk
11:09<@petern:#openttd>well it did have a few bugs :)
11:10<goodger:#openttd>afternooning
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11:10<@petern:#openttd>hello mr publisher
11:10<goodger:#openttd>hello mr, ah, n
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11:14<@Belugas:#openttd>indeed there were :)
11:14<@Belugas:#openttd>plus, iirc, tron had many more stuff he wanted to add
11:14<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15295 /trunk/src/road.cpp: -Fix [FS#2591] (r15190): Towns tried to build roads outside the map.
11:15<edeca:#openttd>Belugas: More stuff like what?
11:17<@Belugas:#openttd>all was in his head
11:17<SpComb:#openttd>heh... is the freeform map edges thing in trunk now? :)
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11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>is it? ho.. my... is it really ?please... tell me it is....
11:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, you are imagining this
11:20*Belugas:#openttd goes back to sleep... heerrr to work
11:22<SpComb:#openttd>all those invalid-tile behaviour things seem to hint at it
11:22<Sacro:#openttd>Belugas: to peruse some gentlemens' magazines?
11:22<SpComb:#openttd>there's a lot of assumptions in the OpentTTD code about the edge tiles of the map
11:23<Yexo:#openttd>SpComb: not anymore
11:24<SpComb:#openttd>did you fix all the unsigned-integer map indexes used in while loops?
11:24<SpComb:#openttd>they would wrap right around to four billion if initialized to zero
11:25<@Belugas:#openttd>Sacro, i[ve got a wife. yuo know, a REAL woman? no need paper dolls, me ;)
11:26<Sacro:#openttd>Belugas: pfft :p
11:26<@petern:#openttd>i don't know if Sacro is aware of such things
11:27<Yexo:#openttd>SpComb: if you find any cases, please report them. openttd will assert / crash soon enough if you encounter one
11:31<SpComb:#openttd>hmm, sorry, that was ScaleByMapSize
11:32<SpComb:#openttd>the use of TileOffsByDiagDir was another one, running that on a tile at the edge was fatal
11:32<SpComb:#openttd>*TileOffsByDiagDir loops
11:33<Yexo:#openttd>SpComb: if you enable the setting, the tiles at the north border are MP_VOID tiles (so a 64x64 map is actually 62x62), most thing only run those TileOffsByDiagDir only on valid tiles
11:34<SpComb:#openttd>hmmk
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12:39<planetmaker:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39481&p=760918#p760918 <-- Eddi|zuHause , dihedral , do you agree to my reasoning?
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12:41<dihedral:#openttd>what does the english say?
12:41<Roest:#openttd>pm why do you let me know?
12:41<planetmaker:#openttd>eu?
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12:42<planetmaker:#openttd>{WHITE}{TOWN} local authority refuses permission for airport due to noise concerns <-- @ dihedral
12:43<planetmaker:#openttd>Roest: do I?
12:43<Roest:#openttd>yea
12:43<planetmaker:#openttd>if you're that Ralph of the German translation, then yes
12:43<Roest:#openttd>^^ not that one, just one
12:43<planetmaker:#openttd>Because that Ralph obviously overwrote my submission :)
12:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the english one seems to be missing a pronoun
12:44<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: sure? Sounds ok to me in English
12:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i'd put a "this" in there
12:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>as well as a "dieses" in the german translation
12:45<planetmaker:#openttd>des or dieses doesn't matter, does it?
12:45<Roest:#openttd>i'd actually would make it local authority refuses permission for aiport construction
12:45<Roest:#openttd>-'d
12:45<planetmaker:#openttd>Roest: no. Noise is the reason which needs to be mentioned
12:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and i'd put "aus Lärmschutzgründen" at the end
12:45<Roest:#openttd>yea of course
12:46<dihedral:#openttd>Laermschutzregulierung :-D
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12:46<dihedral:#openttd>pm, i think your translation is correct
12:46<Roest:#openttd>sigh
12:47<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: also there: I think the important fact should be stressed by putting it last: you may not :P
12:48<planetmaker:#openttd>but I don't mind either. Most important to me is that not a general refusal can be read out of the message :)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the important fact is not that it was refused, but why it was refused
12:48<planetmaker:#openttd>Like: you may build Tempelhof near the city centre. But not Berlin-Brandenburg international :)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that it was refused can be seen by the red box appearing
12:49<Roest:#openttd>how about "town says no"
12:49<planetmaker:#openttd>my hirarchy is: error->error type->error reason :)
12:51<planetmaker:#openttd>it would IMO be more important to know (and distinguish) between "land isn't level enough" and "not allowed to build"
12:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and my reasoning is that the error type is already heavily influenced by the context action
12:52<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there are only few error types which can be caused by an action, the error reason is already enough to distinguish
12:52<planetmaker:#openttd>but when building an airport, you can get both of those types: "not suitable", "not allowed", "already owned" probably, too
12:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>error type is important if there are many error reasons for one type
12:53<dihedral:#openttd>i need a netbubbles (www.netbubbles.de) or something of that nature
12:53<Roest:#openttd>are you an admin?
12:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>not allowed: town rating, and not allowed: noise limit are the only reasons for that type (or did i miss one)
12:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and either of these reasons already imply the type
12:55<dihedral:#openttd>Roest, i am on the admin and one of the dev teams
12:56<Roest:#openttd>hmm u could link it to the number of trains in a public game
12:56<dihedral:#openttd>i am gonna link it to the build status on the continuous integration server
12:57<Roest:#openttd>Derzeit können leider keine Bestellungen angenommen werden! too bad
12:57<dihedral:#openttd>well, the guy lives here in karlsruhe
12:58<dihedral:#openttd>i have his address :-P
12:58<Roest:#openttd>198 euro not exactly cheap
12:58<dihedral:#openttd>not exactly a log
12:58<dihedral:#openttd>*lot
12:59<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Those are the messages which the local authority may return. And therefore... you know faster that it's noise, if it isn't last in the sentence.
12:59<planetmaker:#openttd>and I think it sounds better :P
13:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what? the first and the last part of the sentence are easiest to read, the middle falls under the table if you are just skimming a text
13:00<@Belugas:#openttd>or drunk
13:01<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
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13:01<planetmaker:#openttd>omg, dihedral . You'd end up as mega geek, if you buy that!
13:01<dihedral:#openttd>pm: nope
13:01<dihedral:#openttd>it's awsome
13:02<planetmaker:#openttd>ok. you are :D
13:02<Roest:#openttd>geeksome
13:02<dihedral:#openttd>if you get to trigger bubbles and light changes correctly
13:02<planetmaker:#openttd>you got a point with that, Eddi|zuHause
13:03<planetmaker:#openttd>still it sounds to my ears worse.
13:04<dihedral:#openttd>pm: i just need an alternative, as i cannot order that very thing
13:04<planetmaker:#openttd>dihedral: do it yourself :)
13:05<dihedral:#openttd>not enough time for that
13:05<dihedral:#openttd>ausbildungs projekt arbeit
13:05<Roest:#openttd>dihedral i think 10 of those would be totally awesome
13:05<planetmaker:#openttd>should be feasable. Nice weekend project, if you know the hardware and software stuff.
13:05<dihedral:#openttd>well... communicating with the hardware will be easiest
13:05<planetmaker:#openttd>actually... it might indeed be a nice semester task, too :)
13:06<dihedral:#openttd>you want to build it for me?
13:06<dihedral:#openttd>company will buy it from you :P
13:07<Roest:#openttd>your boss will want it in his office and will ask you why your websites aren't bubbling enough
13:08<dihedral:#openttd>the thing will be in the office of the dev team i work with
13:08<dihedral:#openttd>and after that there will be another one for the other dev office
13:11<Sacro:#openttd>hmm`
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13:20<@petern:#openttd>http://villageofjoy.com/50-strange-buildings-of-the-world/
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13:23<Roest:#openttd>nice peter, maybe architecture isnt dead after all
13:23<@petern:#openttd>especially 16 ;)
13:23<thingwath:#openttd>isn't the number 16 that strange thing from ttd?
13:23<thingwath:#openttd>oh. :)
13:24<Roest:#openttd>lol @ 30
13:25<thingwath:#openttd>that is more an sculpture than architecture, isn't it?
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13:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm, they have the hundertwasser building in darmstadt, but not the one in wien
13:40<@Belugas:#openttd>god bless ya
13:41<Roest:#openttd>belugas
13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>roest
13:41<Roest:#openttd>need more realism hehe
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13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>count down started
13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>5
13:41<Roest:#openttd>eck
13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>4
13:41<Roest:#openttd>eek
13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>3
13:41<Roest:#openttd>i take it back
13:41<@Belugas:#openttd>good :)
13:42<Roest:#openttd>need less realism
13:42<@Belugas:#openttd>lucky for ya
13:42*Belugas:#openttd pats Roest
13:42<Roest:#openttd>pheew
13:42<Roest:#openttd>how about an undo button?
13:43<dihedral:#openttd>he's really asking for it
13:43<Roest:#openttd>^^
13:44<Yexo:#openttd>what is the easiest way to contact a translater? habell managed to translate "Manual" to "handleiding". A correct translation, but 100% wrong in context
13:45<dihedral:#openttd>hihi
13:46<dihedral:#openttd>is there not an email feature for notifying translators?
13:46<dihedral:#openttd>or is that still duff?
13:46<Roest:#openttd>i also want to contact this dutch guy
13:47<Roest:#openttd>i still wanna know how they make tomatoes from water
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13:47<dihedral:#openttd>where is the bus?
13:47<@Belugas:#openttd>at the corner
13:47<@Belugas:#openttd>waiting for you
13:47<@Belugas:#openttd>run!
13:48<@Belugas:#openttd>shit... you've mist it
13:48<dihedral:#openttd>i mean the bus with all the people inside who want to know
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13:48<Wolf01:#openttd>!
13:48<Roest:#openttd>?
13:48<dihedral:#openttd>oi
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13:54<@Belugas:#openttd>blue buss!
13:54<@Belugas:#openttd>magic Buss!
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13:55<@petern:#openttd>canna buss
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13:56<@Belugas:#openttd>kinda buzz
13:58<@petern:#openttd>it's a kinda magic
13:59<dihedral:#openttd>a kind a magi-i-c
13:59<Sacro:#openttd>one dream, one goal
13:59<Sacro:#openttd>one prize, one soul
14:01<@petern:#openttd>wrong way around
14:01<@petern:#openttd>one golden glance
14:01<@petern:#openttd>of what should b
14:01<@petern:#openttd>+e
14:02<dihedral:#openttd>it's a kind of magic
14:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i even know this song :p
14:04<Sacro:#openttd>a flash of light
14:04<Roest:#openttd>hmm every tape that spends enough time in a car radio turns into a queen album
14:05<Sacro:#openttd>or meatloaf
14:06<dihedral:#openttd>brian may's son was once in the class my aunt tought
14:06<dihedral:#openttd>:-P
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15:49<el_en:#openttd>http://www.kuvalauta.fi/b/src/123325512598.jpg
15:49<Roest:#openttd>hmm a green spongebob
15:51<Roest:#openttd>http://schurade.googlepages.com/lego.jpg
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16:00<el_en:#openttd>what happens if the disks of mirrored hardware RAID are changed to bigger ones?
16:01<Wolf01:#openttd>shit happens
16:01<el_en:#openttd>wrong answer.
16:01<Roest:#openttd>i read today is the 60th aniversary of murphy's law
16:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>el_en: the bigger drive is only partially used
16:02<el_en:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: what about when eventually both disks are bigger than initially, and equal size?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>then you need to look if your raid controller has an "expand" feature
16:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and afterwards, expand the filesystem
16:04<el_en:#openttd>oh, it has "* Online Capacity Expansion and RAID Level Migration. "
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16:07<el_en:#openttd>cool. and thanks.
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16:12<edeca:#openttd>el_en: You mean, JBOD :)
16:14<edeca:#openttd>el_en: Is it real RAID, or fake RAID?
16:15-!-paul_ [~paul@host86-140-66-59.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:15<el_en:#openttd>very real, i wouldn't have written "hardware" otherwise.
16:15<edeca:#openttd>el_en: Even some hardware cards aren't real raid :)
16:15<edeca:#openttd>el_en: And no onboard 'hardware' RAID on desktop motherboards is real
16:16<el_en:#openttd>3ware 9650SE, PCI-E.
16:16<edeca:#openttd>That's real enough :P
16:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that heavily depends on the definiton of "real"
16:16<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Doesn't do processor offload is #1
16:17<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Battery backup for #2 (especially for RAID5)
16:17<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Doesn't need shitty 'drivers' should probably be #1.5, but that normally comes with #1
16:18<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Has more memory than my wristwatch? :P
16:18<el_en:#openttd>when the boss gave us big enough budget for a new server, i had no intention of wasting money on a fake raid.
16:19<edeca:#openttd>el_en: Heh sorry, I get grumpy when so many people on IRC brag about their amazing RAID setups and then moan that they don't wory right
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16:21<el_en:#openttd>that card costs something like 350 euros. 4 ports.
16:21*edeca:#openttd takes a chill pill
16:22<edeca:#openttd>I got burned by RAID once, since then I'm careful.
16:22<Aali:#openttd>I have an amazing software RAID setup, ph33r me!
16:23<edeca:#openttd>Aali: There's *nothing* wrong with software RAID if you understand it ;)
16:23<Aali:#openttd>indeed
16:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what was your problem? switching raid controllers?
16:23<Aali:#openttd>and the box is pretty powerful and does nothing but serve files
16:23<Aali:#openttd>so I actually get great performance
16:24<el_en:#openttd>the fact that the root usually can't be on RAID makes software RAID less fault-tolerant.
16:24<Roest:#openttd>raid for speed or for safety?
16:24<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Nah, mirrored 2 disks. Both filled (due to my wonky scripting probably). Then a block died on one, which killed the filesystem. fsck couldn't run because of the lack of space. I forget what happened to the backup drive, I think it was dead
16:24<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Both! But in different circumstances ;)
16:24<Aali:#openttd>I only need speed though
16:24<edeca:#openttd>el_en: It can in linux with a suitable initrd?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>el_en: root? that should not be a problem, at most /boot is
16:25<Aali:#openttd>I have an unmirrored stripe array
16:25<Aali:#openttd>all the data on it can be recreated from various sources
16:25<Roest:#openttd>maybe i'm lucky but i havent had a hd fail in 20 years
16:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>stripe is nasty... if one HD fails, the whole data is lost, not only the data on that failed disk
16:26<Roest:#openttd>so maybe some day i'll care about raids
16:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have a failing hard drive
16:26<edeca:#openttd>Roest: What manufacturer for HDDs?
16:26<Roest:#openttd>until that i live in my own happy world
16:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and i am lacking like 100GB space to empty it, and send it in for possible warranty replacement
16:26<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Setup a few gmail accounts!
16:26<Roest:#openttd>i had IBMs through the 90s, now it's samsung
16:26<el_en:#openttd>edeca: well yes, in redhat-based distros the installer creates the root and /boot on raid, iirc.
16:27<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Yeah, I want a 500GB F1, but nobody stocks them any more :(
16:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>edeca: how many years do you expect me to upload this stuff at 64kbit?
16:27<edeca:#openttd>Roest: I looked at some specs, the samsungs look great
16:27<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Just a few!
16:27<edeca:#openttd>el_en: Yeah, same for most if you don't install custom :(
16:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>until then, i have no reason to bother with warranty anymore
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16:30<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Besides, 100GB of disk space now is about EUR20!
16:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, but i already bought a new 1TB HD for christmas
16:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>half of which i got sponsored
16:31<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: As long as it wasn't a Seagate ;)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the failing one is a seagate (but i think earlier model)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the new one was a western digital
16:32<Roest:#openttd>would that be worse than WD?
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16:32<Roest:#openttd>oops :)
16:32*edeca:#openttd loves WD
16:32<edeca:#openttd>Shame about their finances ;)
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16:34<el_en:#openttd>kind of surprising that an Intel server motherboard has an integrated Matrox graphics card.
16:34<Roest:#openttd>matrox mystique!
16:34<el_en:#openttd>and the motherboard also has EFI besides BIOS, how common is that?
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16:35<edeca:#openttd>el_en: It's new
16:35<edeca:#openttd>el_en: Intel are leading the development
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16:35<Roest:#openttd>i dont know why i just said that
16:36<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
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16:49<el_en:#openttd>does anyone know why a user cannot log in to VMware Server 2.0 even though the group he belongs to is given the Administrator role in setup?
16:50<el_en:#openttd>giving the same role to the specific user does grant him the access to log in.
16:50<edeca:#openttd>Maybe you need to refit the engines? Or use PBS? Crikey, check #vmware on freenode ;)
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16:51<el_en:#openttd>yes, forgot to mention, no additional grfs loaded in VMware!
16:51<+glx:#openttd>el_en: create a new account for it
16:51<+glx:#openttd>it requires a password
16:52<+glx:#openttd>(and I hate the web interface :) )
16:53<+glx:#openttd>and autofit guest doesn't work
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16:54<el_en:#openttd>glx: i didn't notice any option to create accounts, and the system accounts and passwords seem to work otherwise.
16:54<Roest:#openttd>el_en you the the vmware total conversion renewal grf
16:55<Roest:#openttd>you need*
16:55<+glx:#openttd>el_en: yes I needed to create a new windows user with a password
16:55<el_en:#openttd>ugh, no windows, linux.
16:55<+glx:#openttd>but I guess it's similar with linux :)
16:55<+glx:#openttd>a user with password and correct rights
16:56<el_en:#openttd>did you try granting access to groups?
16:56<el_en:#openttd>because giving the administrator role to individual users seems to work, but giving it to a group does not.
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16:57<el_en:#openttd>and wtf is the point of giving role (i.e. access) to a group if it doesn't imply that users of that group can enter.
16:57<+glx:#openttd>I have "vmware" member of "Admins"
16:58<el_en:#openttd>"vmware" is a group?
16:58<+glx:#openttd>no it's a user
16:58<@petern:#openttd>mmm, worms, in a can
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16:58<Roest:#openttd>out of the can
16:58<+glx:#openttd>my other admin users don't have a password ;)
16:59<el_en:#openttd>m'kay, well since there are only 3 or 4 people who need the access, i might as well list them separately, but would be more elegant just to list the group.
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17:00<el_en:#openttd>since giving access to individual users does seem to work, and they can log in.
17:00<Roest:#openttd>wait you have admin user without a password?
17:00<+glx:#openttd>I have a __vmware__ group but I don't know what it does
17:00<el_en:#openttd>Roest: is that surprising on windows?
17:01<+glx:#openttd>Roest: yes my normal login doesn't have a password (mono user desktop)
17:01<Roest:#openttd>i would call it surprising for a system administrated by someone who knows what he's doing
17:01<+glx:#openttd>the only way to login is to be in front of my computer
17:02<Roest:#openttd>and you have to clear the mine field to get there, if you passed the electric wiring
17:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you got to praise the person at microsoft who was wise enough to not allow remote login to users without password :p
17:04-!-bandi_zz [~user@catv4E5CAA38.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
17:04<bandi_zz:#openttd>hi
17:04<Roest:#openttd>hi
17:04<el_en:#openttd>hi
17:04<Yexo:#openttd>hello bandi_zz
17:04<bandi_zz:#openttd>any developers around?
17:05<Yexo:#openttd>yes
17:05<Roest:#openttd>--->
17:05<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: So that's on MS developer saved from hell
17:05<bandi_zz:#openttd>nice :-)
17:05<bandi_zz:#openttd>so I have a question about this hot new feature, called bananas
17:05<Roest:#openttd>yellow and curvy
17:05<bandi_zz:#openttd>It works very nicely :-)
17:06<bandi_zz:#openttd>not exactly that type of question
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17:07<bandi_zz:#openttd>when I select a feature like an AI or grf
17:07<bandi_zz:#openttd>I can see its version
17:07<bandi_zz:#openttd>would it be possible to see the release/upload date as well
17:07<+glx:#openttd>why?
17:07<bandi_zz:#openttd>you know, just to feel its age
17:08<+glx:#openttd>if there's a new version you are warned
17:08<bandi_zz:#openttd>opengfx 2.4 alpha doesn't mean much
17:08<bandi_zz:#openttd>ah :-) nice feat.
17:08<bandi_zz:#openttd>but if I browse something new, then I can see wheter it is one week old, or like two years
17:09<Roest:#openttd>that info is kinda useless if there isnt anything newer tho
17:09<+glx:#openttd>upload date are at most 2 weeks old ;)
17:09<bandi_zz:#openttd>for now :-)
17:09<bandi_zz:#openttd>maybe it will remain so :-)
17:09<+glx:#openttd>even for 6 months old grfs
17:09<bandi_zz:#openttd>but I don't think so
17:10<Roest:#openttd>u still have to make sure your AIs dont evolve into skynet
17:10<bandi_zz:#openttd>is there a skynet check?
17:10<Roest:#openttd>http://xkcd.com/534/
17:11<bandi_zz:#openttd>okay
17:11<bandi_zz:#openttd>I know that
17:11<bandi_zz:#openttd>so you implemented it
17:11<bandi_zz:#openttd>but in which change set?
17:11<bandi_zz:#openttd>I don't want to grep through the whole sorce
17:12<Roest:#openttd>well it's something to be aware of, is your pc collecting raw materials yet or downloading human anatomy files from the net?
17:12<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Which pays better rates?
17:13<bandi_zz:#openttd>dunno
17:13<bandi_zz:#openttd>just playing sudoku, chess and go
17:13<bandi_zz:#openttd>these kind of stuff
17:13<edeca:#openttd>Roest: I've got nothing wrong with my computer harvesting organs, as long as I'm earning dollars
17:14<bandi_zz:#openttd>and I am actually using a laptop
17:14<edeca:#openttd>bandi_zz: A laptop *computer*
17:14<bandi_zz:#openttd>does it increase the risks?
17:14<Roest:#openttd>nothing wrong about that, it's just the take over the world thing that's where it's getting dangerous
17:14<bandi_zz:#openttd>@edeca ok, that's more precise
17:14<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Meh, that's why I've got the skynet2000 firewall
17:14<bandi_zz:#openttd>I can disable the wireless with a press of a button
17:15<bandi_zz:#openttd>it makes me feel more comfortable
17:15<@Belugas:#openttd>bye bye, nighty night
17:15<Roest:#openttd>night get some realism
17:16<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Realism is overrated
17:16<bandi_zz:#openttd>bye
17:16<bandi_zz:#openttd>btw it would be nice two sort the industry list according to two aspects
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17:17<bandi_zz:#openttd>like type first and production second
17:17<bandi_zz:#openttd>makes browsing more fun
17:17<Roest:#openttd>that what the suggestion board is for
17:17<edeca:#openttd>bandi_zz: That will cost 1/2 a pint of blood. Line up to donate.
17:17<Roest:#openttd>you can also suggest an undo button while you're at it
17:18<bandi_zz:#openttd>for sorting?
17:18<bandi_zz:#openttd>undo sort :-)
17:18<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Are you drinking?
17:18<Roest:#openttd>how did oyu find out?
17:18<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Detective skills.
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17:28<el_en:#openttd>glx: btw, do you know if some version of vmware-server-console works with server 2.0, or is the browser add-on the only option?
17:28<+glx:#openttd>I didn't find any other way
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17:29<el_en:#openttd>well crap.
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23:01<janitor:#openttd>will a city stop/resist growing if it's blocked on just side?
23:02<janitor:#openttd>or is there any other reason for why a city doesn't want to grow over ~70k, even by "expand" in the scenario editor
23:02<janitor:#openttd>(meant just one side)
23:03<Aali:#openttd>no and no clue
23:04<Aali:#openttd>if the city can build new roads, it can expand
23:04<Aali:#openttd>but I don't know if there are any other restrictions in the scened
23:04<janitor:#openttd>it's stopped growing in the game, that's why i tried the scened
23:05<kd5pbo:#openttd>Does adding roads to a town help?
23:05<Aali:#openttd>well you can certainly have towns with over 70k population
23:06<janitor:#openttd>i know, and i have them
23:06<janitor:#openttd>just not this particular one
23:07<janitor:#openttd>it is being blocked in areas by stations and rails, but plenty of bridges and tunnels crossing them
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23:08<janitor:#openttd>it grows very slowly by pressing expand
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 30 00:00:36 2009