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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-30

---Logopened Fri Jan 30 00:00:36 2009
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01:02<Sacro:#openttd>hehehe... fahrt
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02:00<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: is there a german word for city? or is it just stadt?
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02:33<dihedral:#openttd>Sacro, dict.leo.org
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04:08<edeca:#openttd>kd5pbo: If you add roads, the town will build round them, yes
04:13<planetmaker:#openttd>morning
04:14<Roest1:#openttd>morning
04:14<edeca:#openttd>Hi :)
04:14*edeca:#openttd drinks the first coffee of the day
04:14-!-Roest1 is now known as Roest
04:14<planetmaker:#openttd>he... good idea. Me goes preparing tea
04:15<Roest:#openttd>i could use the coffee pad a second time for oyu, that's as good as tea
04:15<planetmaker:#openttd>urgs....
04:15<Roest:#openttd>^^
04:15<planetmaker:#openttd>Thanks, I think I'll stay with the nice Darjeling I have here.
04:17<edeca:#openttd>Darjewho? It's fairtrade coffee all the way
04:19<dihedral:#openttd>a glas of hot milk is a lot healthier for you
04:19<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Not if you drink 6 a day
04:23<dihedral:#openttd>it says 'a glass of' not 'glasses of'
04:31<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: And when you've drunk 50%, what state is the glass in? :)
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>milky
04:34<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>hi guys, coding my first vehicle:
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04:34<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>i'm setting the various properties for the engine
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>xerxesda1hat, great, post it on the forums :-P
04:35<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>peter told me i should set all the properties
04:35<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>does this mean, what, action 0 property 00 right through to 27 or whatever?
04:35<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>should i leave nothing to chance?
04:35<Roest:#openttd>thats always a good idea
04:36<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>fair enough, just seems a hella long line :P
04:36<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>dihedral: is this not really the appropriate place to ask questions like that?
04:36<dihedral:#openttd>why should it not be?
04:36<Roest:#openttd>dihedral didnt have his milk yet
04:36<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>lol i dunno you said post it on the forums
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>yep
04:37<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>btw: put the hot milk away, grind some fresh beans and make yourself an espresso
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>just in case you were gonna say / ask some stupid questions :-D
04:37<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>all my questions are stupid :D
04:38<dihedral:#openttd>well, then even more post them in the forums, you get the right peoples attention in there
04:39<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>i wonder, offhand, what the market share is of ottd compared to patch
04:39<edeca:#openttd>xerxesda1hat: What he means if you're more likely to get a decent response in the forums
04:39<dihedral:#openttd>not intereseting imo
04:39<Roest:#openttd>on my computer 100%
04:39<dihedral:#openttd>edeca, no i did not mean that actually
04:40<edeca:#openttd>dihedral: Sorry.
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>i forgive you :-D
04:40<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>well in terms of whether one should bother making a grf compatible 100% with patch
04:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><xerxesda1hat> fair enough, just seems a hella long line :P <- you can put line breaks in there, and comment each property (recommended)
04:41<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: sounds sensible
04:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>because, as correctly observed recently, NFO is more a machine-readable than a human-readable language, which makes plenty of comments necessary
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04:44<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: reminds me of writing assembly back when I had my C64
04:44<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>i wasn't aware you could put the line breaks in, didn't think grfcodec was all that flexible
04:47<dihedral:#openttd>you never tried :-P
04:48<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>hah! last time i thought i knew what i was doing with grfcodec it chopped up my sprites and gave me white squares in-game :P
04:49<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>good thing i backed up before decoding the grf again
04:49<dihedral:#openttd>...
04:51<xerxesda1hat:#openttd>never underestimate the power of ignorance
04:51*dihedral:#openttd hugs his ignore list :-D
04:53<Roest:#openttd>u seem grumpy today
04:53<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
04:53<planetmaker:#openttd>being friendly with an ignore list IMO doesn't qualify as grumpy :P
04:54<dihedral:#openttd>Roest, kinda sick :-P
04:55<dihedral:#openttd>anyway - i never said i was ignoring someone, i just said i liked my ignore list :-P
04:55<Aali:#openttd>is anyone not grumpy ever in #openttd?
04:56<Roest:#openttd><---
04:56<Aali:#openttd>a bunch of old guys obsessed with an equally old videogame, what do you expect?
04:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and tomorrow on "weird fetishes" ...
04:56<dihedral:#openttd>Aali, "equally old".....
04:56<Roest:#openttd>i take offense in being called old
04:56<@Rubidium:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: ... a guy obsessed about 'old' guys obsessed with an 'equally old' videogame?
04:57<Aali:#openttd>dihedral: relatively speaking :P
04:57<dihedral:#openttd>yeah right!
04:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Rubidium: i was intentionally not going into details :p
04:57<dihedral:#openttd>if TTD was as old as the average age of the people in here it would be darn old already (thanks to Belugas)
04:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think i was 12 when i first played TT
04:58<Roest:#openttd>which doesn't mean anything, would be different if you said you were 12 when TTD came out
04:59<dihedral:#openttd>aye
04:59<Aali:#openttd>well, TT is from 94, that makes it pretty darn old for a video game
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04:59<dihedral:#openttd>Aali, do you know Pheta Space Station ?
04:59<dihedral:#openttd>i used to play that :-D
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04:59<@Rubidium:#openttd>pong anyone?
04:59<dihedral:#openttd>or hellcats over the pacific (hotp)
05:00<@petern:#openttd>hurr
05:00<Aali:#openttd>dihedral: sorry, I'm not that old :P
05:00<@petern:#openttd>assigning an access list to the correct one of 'in' or 'out' is quite important...
05:01<edeca:#openttd>petern: Heh, cisco?
05:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>wow... in 1952 there already was a computer game with an AI
05:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>now that's quite old for a video game
05:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i assume it was a chess AI
05:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>nope ;)
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05:05<@Rubidium:#openttd>although it depends on what you call an AI whether you'd classify this AI as AI
05:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>a program making decisions not directly reacting on user input
05:07<@Rubidium:#openttd>anyhow, it's a perfect tic-tac-toe 'player' for the game called 'OXO'
05:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll do
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05:20<Elukka:#openttd>ok so i thought i could try making an US scenario
05:20<Elukka:#openttd>is there anywhere where i can find information on what type of industry is dominant in what area?
05:21<Roest:#openttd>they dont have any industry it's just service and banks
05:21<Elukka:#openttd>:D
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05:22<Elukka:#openttd>what do people usually do when they make real world maps?
05:22<Elukka:#openttd>do they just plonk them down randomly?
05:23-!-mode/#openttd [+q dihedral!*@*] by petern
05:23<@petern:#openttd>ignore list :D
05:23-!-mode/#openttd [-q dihedral!*@*] by petern
05:23<Aali:#openttd>it doesn't really matter since all those industries will be pretty much randomized later on anyway
05:24<@petern:#openttd>edeca: yes, cisco
05:24<Aali:#openttd>unless you service them all from the very beginning
05:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in germany we have these fancy books called "Atlas", they have topographical, political AND economical maps of each area of the earth
05:24<@petern:#openttd>edeca, even better, getting ip masks correct is quite important...
05:24<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like an almanac
05:24<@petern:#openttd>reversed netmask? whyever not!
05:25<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>Elukka: why not check on wikipedia? they normally list things like that w.r.t. various states and regions
05:26<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
05:26<Elukka:#openttd>where would i check?
05:26<Elukka:#openttd>list of somethingsomething, somethingsomething per state?
05:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>xerxesdaphat: Atlas, of course, is a person in the greek mythology
05:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>generally pictured carrying the world on his neck
05:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Port_merion_atlas.JPG&filetimestamp=20070410022033 <- like this
05:27<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>well, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire#Economy
05:27<Elukka:#openttd>hmm... thanks
05:27<Elukka:#openttd>might try that
05:27<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>just in the general article it says it's all about dairy products, apples, eggs etc.
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05:27<Elukka:#openttd>i think i'll research a bit and make a simple map for myself
05:28<Elukka:#openttd>for reference, if i ever get to making the scenario
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05:28<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I've still got my 1986 Reader's Digest Atlas
05:28<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>complete with East Germany and teh USSR :D
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05:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that'll do. american economy did not do much since then... except... crash twice
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05:30<Elukka:#openttd>oh... right
05:30<Elukka:#openttd>last time i tried to do anything, i couldnt get a heightmap from anywhere
05:32<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>thinking aloud, i wonder if it's possible to use google earth for things like that
05:32<Elukka:#openttd>there's an SRTM plugin for google earth
05:32<Elukka:#openttd>found it in the heightmap guide in the forum
05:33<Elukka:#openttd>however, i only saw the banner, not the download links
05:33<Elukka:#openttd>even though all of them were ticked on
05:33<Elukka:#openttd>google maps has accurate enough heigh data... too bad there's no way to get it out of it :/
05:34<Roest:#openttd>cool just found my map again :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27052&start=135
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05:35<Elukka:#openttd>if i'm doing the whole of united states (and probably some canada and stuff) i dont really need a huge res heightmap
05:35<Elukka:#openttd>yes, that's what i tried to do
05:35<Elukka:#openttd>it didnt work
05:35<Elukka:#openttd>oh yay, someone in the forums has made on
05:35<Elukka:#openttd>one*
05:35<Elukka:#openttd>hope its good
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05:38<Elukka:#openttd>hmm, it has more central america than canada...
05:39<Elukka:#openttd>ok, is anyone here capable of making a heightmap?
05:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there is nothing in canada much further north from the border
05:39<Elukka:#openttd>heh
05:39<Elukka:#openttd>there's FOREST
05:40<Elukka:#openttd>i could cut off half of it... i dont want to lose florida, though
05:40<Elukka:#openttd>but i really dont need uruguay
05:41<dihedral:#openttd>Roest, you could do a map making use of the free form map edges ;-)
05:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the problem of heightmaps is, the further you go away from the equator (or other projection center), the higher the distortions get
05:42<Roest:#openttd>dihedral look at the date posted :)
05:42<Elukka:#openttd>true
05:42<Elukka:#openttd>damn earth for being round and all
05:42<dihedral:#openttd>look at the words i wrote
05:43<dihedral:#openttd>not 'why is it not using...' but 'you could....'
05:43<Roest:#openttd>that town placement patch was pretty cool, too bad he dropped out of sight so fast
05:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>gnah... chances are, the last 3 episodes of pushing dasies will be shown in germany before they are shown in the usa
05:57*Rubidium:#openttd hopes they aren't dubbed in German the ;)
05:57<@Rubidium:#openttd>*then
05:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you hope wrongly...
05:59<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>yehehehe
05:59<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>finally figured out action 4 so my NZR DE Class is no longer a Ploddyphut Diesel :D
05:59<thingwath:#openttd>German is such a beautiful language...
05:59<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>now, onto the xrel/yrel :'(
05:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, but german dubs are of less quality than the original, usually
06:00<@Rubidium:#openttd>ah well, strange release dates happen more often
06:00<dihedral:#openttd>thingwath, 'tis not
06:01<thingwath:#openttd>most of dubs are of less quality than the original
06:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it is rumoured that the last 3 episode do not air at all, but get released on the DVD set only
06:01<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>it was all cocked up because of the writer's strike, wasn't it
06:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the second season had a huge drop in ratings
06:02<thingwath:#openttd>http://cz.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-2yMBrWnds ;)
06:02<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>oh there was a second season! hah, takes a while for american shows to air in the antipodes
06:03<Elukka:#openttd>yay! the heightmap worked pretty well
06:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>they started showing the second season here last week
06:03<Elukka:#openttd>now to do some research
06:04<Elukka:#openttd>...the great lakes need some water though
06:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>use a river grf
06:07<Elukka:#openttd>what's a river grf?
06:07<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Where did you get the heightmap from?
06:07<Elukka:#openttd>some random guy in the forums who had posted it
06:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>a grf for rivers
06:08<Elukka:#openttd>yeah, but what does it actually do?
06:08<Elukka:#openttd>enables water above the sea level?
06:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>similar to canals, except you cannot build them in the game
06:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and you can have slopes
06:08<Elukka:#openttd>ooh!
06:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>especially, you can make lakes
06:09<Elukka:#openttd>shame you cant get multiple climates on one map...
06:09<edeca:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Cool, so you could have lakes in the mountains?
06:09*edeca:#openttd likes that idea
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>are rivers traversable by boats?
06:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, but not the slopes
06:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you need to bypass them with a lock
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>makes sense
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>kinda
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>well
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>whatever
06:11<Elukka:#openttd>damn you, you just caused me a lot more work because now i have to place rivers too
06:11<Elukka:#openttd>:P
06:14*edeca:#openttd searches for screenshots
06:15<@petern:#openttd>mwhahaha
06:15<Elukka:#openttd>it looks like water
06:15<Elukka:#openttd>surprisingly enough
06:16<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Woah, no way!
06:17<@petern:#openttd>shocking
06:20*edeca:#openttd needs counselling after learning that
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06:32<@petern:#openttd>bah
06:33<@petern:#openttd>why are most lcd displays not height adjustable?
06:33<edeca:#openttd>petern: Sucks, doesn't it. That's the only use for a yellow pages nowadays
06:33<edeca:#openttd>And it's silly, you pay extra for one with height adjustment and then adjust it exactly once, when you first install it :)
06:34<Aali:#openttd>heh
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06:35<Aali:#openttd>looking at my desktop; old crappy lcd is height adjustable, new fancy lcd sits on top of my haskell book
06:36<@petern:#openttd>i should put mine on a few
06:36<@petern:#openttd>my neck is permanently down...
06:36<edeca:#openttd>My posture is awful too
06:36<edeca:#openttd>Added to that a 1:30 commute every day and my back aches :)
06:37<@petern:#openttd>well
06:37<thingwath:#openttd>hm, if I didn't have a laptop, I guess I would mount display on wall
06:37<@petern:#openttd>apparently your arms should reach out to the top of the monitor
06:37<@petern:#openttd>but
06:37<@petern:#openttd>i don't think that really applies to modern huge LCDs...
06:38<edeca:#openttd>Heh I have a 22" widescreen LCD next to a 19", if my arms touched them I'd probably have burnt retinas
06:39<Gekz:#openttd>I'd need 4 arms
06:39<Gekz:#openttd>to reach my monitor
06:39<Gekz:#openttd>lol
06:39<thingwath:#openttd>and you can actually see something on it?
06:40<Gekz:#openttd>I can
06:42<thingwath:#openttd>so I need new glasses :-(
06:42<Gekz:#openttd>I have only one eye that works
06:44<thingwath:#openttd>that is enough, depth perception isn't needed for computer displays :)
06:45<@petern:#openttd>unless you stick your arms out
06:45<@petern:#openttd>seeing how far it is
06:45<@petern:#openttd>and smack the display...
06:45<thingwath:#openttd>:)
06:45<@petern:#openttd>apparently the monitor should be an arms length away
06:46*petern:#openttd wonders where to place his second monitor :p
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08:05<edeca:#openttd>petern: Place it on my desk! :)
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08:08<fjb:#openttd>Hello
08:15<edeca:#openttd>Hi fjb
08:17<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>now, has anybody have any clue, that when i load my train grf in conjunction with the UK Renewal Set, the y-axis alignment in the depot window seems different?
08:21<@petern:#openttd>edeca, it's a 15" 1024x768... are you sure?
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08:27<@petern:#openttd>xerxesdaphat: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionD#Y_Offset_for_train_sprites_8E_
08:27<planetmaker:#openttd>yexo here?
08:27<Yexo:#openttd>yes
08:27<planetmaker:#openttd>I'm still a bit puzzled about the tt-forums thread with mp_void / mp_water
08:27<planetmaker:#openttd>with free-form the water edges become un-buildable?
08:28<Yexo:#openttd>planetmaker: open a new game with all water edges, scroll to the north edge and change the setting
08:28<Yexo:#openttd>you'll see the tiles changes from water to void tiles
08:29<planetmaker:#openttd>ok :) Which means I cannot do anything with that tile anymore, right?
08:29<Yexo:#openttd>same as you can't do anything on other tiles outside the map :)
08:29<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>petern: i was looking at that but i thought offset meant something else
08:29<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah, ok :) Thanks a lot. :)
08:30<Yexo:#openttd>with freeform edges on, a 64x64 map is actually 62x62. With the settinf off it's 63x63
08:30<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>actually no i was looking at something in callbacks
08:30<planetmaker:#openttd>ah, there it goes :) No wrapping :)
08:31<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>petern: thanks once again for being patient with noobs :D
08:31<Yexo:#openttd>that was never the intention, as then a lot more code needs to be adjusted
08:32<planetmaker:#openttd>Yexo: no, sure. I'm also quite convinced that it's not a good idea.
08:33<Yexo:#openttd>I think it could be fun to have the option to play on a wrap-around map, it's just very hard to code
08:33<planetmaker:#openttd>That of I'm convinced :)
08:37<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: Definitely! One way rail tracks circling the globe ;)
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08:47<Elukka:#openttd>you know, its actually kinda interesting to make this scenario
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08:47<Elukka:#openttd>i get to look at places in google earth that would otherwise not occur to me
08:55<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Shame ECS doesn't have an alien factory to plonk in Nevada
08:58<@Rubidium:#openttd>aliens aren't produced in Nevada
08:59<edeca:#openttd>I didn't suggest they were processed there.
08:59<edeca:#openttd>s/processed/produced
09:00<@Rubidium:#openttd>producing is what a factory does
09:00<edeca:#openttd>Heh. When irony goes too far.
09:02<edeca:#openttd>Are current affairs going to be incorporated into openttd? "The Government has sent car factory workers home on leave for 4 months, vehicle production halted!"
09:02<@Rubidium:#openttd>just write a newgrf to do that
09:03<edeca:#openttd>:)
09:08<Elukka:#openttd>you know whats the problem with big projects like this
09:08<Elukka:#openttd>first i'm all "yay, this is cool"
09:08<Elukka:#openttd>then i lose motivation :/
09:09<Elukka:#openttd>i have one other scenario i deserted
09:09<Elukka:#openttd>my 3D folder has about 20 models i havent done
09:09<Elukka:#openttd>my drawings folder has probably about 50 unfinished things
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09:21<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: My brain is full of whacky ideas like that :)
09:21<Elukka:#openttd>well
09:21<Elukka:#openttd>i kinda semi-finished this
09:21<Elukka:#openttd>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/fighter-7.png?t=1233325295
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09:26<dihedral:#openttd>yuck
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10:06<@Celestar:#openttd>oy!
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10:07<Roest:#openttd>http://schurade.googlepages.com/BlackCo.17.Jan1966.png
10:10*Celestar:#openttd finds his appearance to have astonishingly little effect
10:10<Roest:#openttd>anyone seen celestar lately?
10:11*Celestar:#openttd pokes Roest with ... something :P
10:11<Roest:#openttd>oh hi
10:11<SmatZ:#openttd>hello Celestar
10:12<@Celestar:#openttd>:P :P
10:12<@Celestar:#openttd>I have completed my research project \o/
10:12<@Celestar:#openttd>only thing that remains is writing my dissertation :P
10:12<SmatZ:#openttd>gratz :-)
10:12<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
10:13<Roest:#openttd>i used to say that last year when i finished programming and only the writing remained
10:15<Roest:#openttd>you will find out that "only" isn't quite the right word
10:15<@Celestar:#openttd>it WAS a bit of ironic, the 'only'
10:16<@Celestar:#openttd>especially since I hate, and suck at, writing
10:17<Roest:#openttd>same here
10:17<SmatZ:#openttd>same here
10:18<@Celestar:#openttd>BAH
10:18*Celestar:#openttd throws his XP installation CD outta the window.
10:19<@Celestar:#openttd>why. WHY?
10:21<@Celestar:#openttd>I got this new laptop. It took me 25 minutes to install an Opensuse 11.1 from scratch. For the past 4 hours, I have attempted to install XPSP2 from the installation CD.
10:22<@Celestar:#openttd>the installer bluescreens before it even gets to the GUI
10:22<SpComb:#openttd>it doesn't want to
10:23<@Celestar:#openttd>maybe I should just virtualize it
10:23<Roest:#openttd>xp doesnt like it when there is linux on your hd
10:23<@Celestar:#openttd>?
10:23<Roest:#openttd>i always install xp first then linux after it
10:24<Roest:#openttd>and yes i'm serious, found out the hard way
10:24<@Celestar:#openttd>I normally do, but I hadn'T any XP CD when I first got it
10:24<Elukka:#openttd>man
10:24<Elukka:#openttd>i still havent got the great lakes done
10:26<edeca:#openttd> You can install Windows after Linux fine, you just have to sort out the MBR from a boot CD after
10:26<edeca:#openttd>If windows bluescreens before the GUI though, that's trouble :)
10:27<Roest:#openttd>but it's easier to do it in the right order, saves you a major headache
10:28<@Celestar:#openttd>edeca: yeah.
10:28<Roest:#openttd>i have xp, vista and linux on my machine, if i dont install it in that order too it gets messy
10:29*edeca:#openttd loves vmware
10:30<@Celestar:#openttd>yeah, but I need OpenGL, and I'm not sure vmware supports it
10:31<edeca:#openttd>Celestar: 6.5 does DirectX 9, never tried opengl
10:31<edeca:#openttd>Celestar: So it's positive at least that they are starting to support 3D natively
10:31<@Celestar:#openttd>ok.
10:31<@Celestar:#openttd>even the free version?
10:32<edeca:#openttd>I don't know, I use the paid version.
10:37<@Celestar:#openttd>which one?
10:38<Sacro:#openttd>Celestar: virtualbox latest has opengl
10:39<edeca:#openttd>I use Workstation 6.5. But if virtualbox has opengl, that would be cool too
10:40<Roest:#openttd>is it still so that small airports give a higher crash chance later in the game?
10:40<@Celestar:#openttd>Sacro: yes, so I read.
10:45<angelo2:#openttd>what's the use of having virtual machinse and all these os in a pc?
10:45<angelo2:#openttd>machines*
10:45<Sacro:#openttd>angelo2: i prefer to have linux as my main OS
10:45<Sacro:#openttd>as it is x86_64 so can use my full RAM
10:46<Sacro:#openttd>and then an XP guest machine so that I can run Visual Studio
10:46<goodger:#openttd>huzzah for visual studio
10:46<goodger:#openttd>the only text editor that takes longer to load than windows itself
10:47<goodger:#openttd>(in my experience)
10:47<@Celestar:#openttd>even longer?
10:47<@Celestar:#openttd>on my T42p, XP took about 120 seconds to load
10:47<goodger:#openttd>brb
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10:49<Roest:#openttd>hrmpf
10:52<Roest:#openttd>is there a way to specify which AI to use in a scenario or is that random between the available AIs?
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10:56<Roest:#openttd>somehow all my ottd questions are ignored :(
10:58<edeca:#openttd>I think the answer is no. The client can set specific AIs for a game, but I don't think you can any other way
10:58<edeca:#openttd>But I'm probably wrong, as usual
11:00<@petern:#openttd>if VS takes longer to load that windows, you need more than 128MB ram...
11:00<@petern:#openttd>*than
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11:07<Elukka:#openttd>:/
11:07<Elukka:#openttd>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/screenshot.png?t=1233331599
11:07<Elukka:#openttd>this is what i have
11:07<Elukka:#openttd>so far
11:08<edeca:#openttd>Are you just doing the great lakes?
11:10<Elukka:#openttd>no
11:10<Elukka:#openttd>it's a 2048x1024 map
11:10<Elukka:#openttd>it's the united states and little bits of canada and mexico
11:10<Elukka:#openttd>no guarantees it'll ever be finished :P
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11:18<SHRIKEE:#openttd>if an airplane crashes, does that affect the amount of passengers on airports?
11:18<SHRIKEE:#openttd>like, the rates drop a bit, less passengers...
11:19<@petern:#openttd>i think they all go elsewhere
11:20<edeca:#openttd>SHRIKEE: Your rating will drop, yes.
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11:20<SHRIKEE:#openttd>but stay passengers away?
11:20<SHRIKEE:#openttd>because theyre scared or something?
11:21<edeca:#openttd>No, because you have poor ratings.
11:21<SHRIKEE:#openttd>ah ok
11:21<edeca:#openttd>Openttd doesn't have emotions.
11:21<SHRIKEE:#openttd>right
11:21<SHRIKEE:#openttd>woulod be an interresting feature though ;)
11:21<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, sure. The banker should wink at you when you take out a loan.
11:21<SHRIKEE:#openttd>when an accident happens, or maybe a few times that people in the area stay away from that type of transport
11:22<SHRIKEE:#openttd>lol
11:22<SHRIKEE:#openttd>traffic giant has a mechanism like that though
11:22<SHRIKEE:#openttd>people can be unhappy or scared for all sorts of things
11:23<SHRIKEE:#openttd>and thus stay away from that tramline or bus
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11:38<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
11:38<Elukka:#openttd>the great lakes area is 500x300 squares
11:38<Elukka:#openttd>big.
11:39<edeca:#openttd>I hope it's to scale
11:39<Elukka:#openttd>it is
11:39<Elukka:#openttd>well
11:39<Elukka:#openttd>depending on what you mean by to scale
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11:59<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
11:59<Elukka:#openttd>how can i get the rivers in their right place :/
11:59<Elukka:#openttd>they arent on the map...
12:00<Roest:#openttd>convert map tile into utm coordinates, get river coordinates from google maps, draw river, profit
12:01<Elukka:#openttd>what's an utm coordinate, how do i get the coordinates from google earth and how does this help in the game? :P
12:01<Roest:#openttd>it doesn't help you at all, i have no clue and was only half serious
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12:02<Elukka:#openttd>oh, i thought you knew stuff :(
12:02<Roest:#openttd>been pretending all the time
12:05<Roest:#openttd>but seriously i think the only way is to get a map, look where the rivers are and put them in manually
12:05<Roest:#openttd>or put the rivers in your heightmap
12:07<Elukka:#openttd>bit late for that
12:07<Elukka:#openttd>since i already spent hours on the great lakes
12:07<Roest:#openttd>should've done the small and medium lakes first
12:07<Elukka:#openttd>why?
12:08<Elukka:#openttd>i dont see that many anyway
12:08<Roest:#openttd>ok my attempts on humor fail at you
12:08<Elukka:#openttd>:/
12:08<Elukka:#openttd>you, me, or us both suck at humor
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>see, its confusing
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>first you say something that sounds like genuine advice
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>(but its a joke)
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>then you have a good suggestion, drawing them on a heightmap
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>then you say something that again sounds like advice
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>but its a joke
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>goddamn confusing!
12:09<Elukka:#openttd>:D
12:10<Roest:#openttd>actually the first one wasn't really a joke but not really practical either
12:10<Roest:#openttd>if you can estimate a real world coordinate for map tile it should be easy to get the right locations for rivers but it's alot of effort
12:11<Elukka:#openttd>is it more than attempting to look at maps?
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12:13<Roest:#openttd>dunno, guess i'll see for myself, i decided to add rivers to my scenario
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12:42<SHRIKEE:#openttd>i'm wondering, in the yearly balance sheet. there is a category "other" and somehow i spend 17k on that every year. it grows a bit as my company grows... what "other" costs are they?
12:42<Jerre:#openttd>hookers
12:48<Roest:#openttd>expensive hookers or just many?
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>nice expensive call girls
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12:49<fjb:#openttd>Maybe both...
12:49<SHRIKEE:#openttd>lol
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>why do you thn
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>why do you thn
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>why do you think the hq gets bigger
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>it needs to hold more hooker
12:49<SHRIKEE:#openttd>it doesn't
12:49<Jerre:#openttd>s
12:50<SHRIKEE:#openttd>it's the largest already :P
12:50<Jerre:#openttd>then i guess the quality of the hookers must increse
12:55<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15296 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove redundant _MSC_VER >= 1400 checks, older versions aren't supported anymore. One check in stdafx.h is enough
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13:03<@petern:#openttd>which is 1400?
13:03<+glx:#openttd>vs8
13:04<+glx:#openttd>2005
13:04<@petern:#openttd>k
13:06<@Belugas:#openttd>SHRIKEE, if i'm not mistaken, OTHERS cover -> profits/loses from shares operations, buying bankkrupts, funding iundustries, Town actions
13:06<SHRIKEE:#openttd>ahh
13:07<SHRIKEE:#openttd>well bribes and stuff go there
13:07<SHRIKEE:#openttd>but even if i don't do anything there is a sum
13:07<SmatZ:#openttd>also _prices.build_station >> 4 each month
13:07<SmatZ:#openttd>for some reason :)
13:08<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
13:09<@Belugas:#openttd>forgot that one :S
13:10<@petern:#openttd>your own salary :)
13:10<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
13:13<frosch123:#openttd>pff, how is "Use first refittable cargo type as default cargo" supposed to work wrt. the capacity divisors (4 passenger == 2 mailbag == 2 goods boxes == 1 other cargo)
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13:16<SmatZ:#openttd>frosch123: FS#2581? :)
13:16<frosch123:#openttd>yes :)
13:17<frosch123:#openttd>we can of course add the cargo type to those accessable from the purchase list, but that does not really solve the multiplier problem
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13:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><frosch123> pff, how is "Use first refittable cargo type as default cargo" supposed to work wrt. the capacity divisors (4 passenger == 2 mailbag == 2 goods boxes == 1 other cargo) <- what are those, anyway?
13:23<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: TTD allowed refitting of ships, maybe also aircraft. those multipliers were used to adapt the capacity for different types of cargo
13:24<frosch123:#openttd>i.e. a ship carrying 100 passengers, could be refitted to 50 bags of mail, 50 boxes of goods, or 25 units of any other cargo
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13:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>mmh-h
13:25<frosch123:#openttd>though TTD is so much in the past, that I do not know whether planes or ships or both were refittable
13:25<Roest:#openttd>i think i remember having coal planes
13:25<frosch123:#openttd>usually you replace those weird things with callback 15, but that is only called when you refit, not when bulding
13:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and do these multipliers still apply anywhere?
13:26<frosch123:#openttd>yes, when you do not use callback 15
13:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so... use every occurance of these with a callback 15?
13:27<SmatZ:#openttd>frosch123: planes were refittable (and they aren't in OTTD) I think
13:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>s/use/replace/
13:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>SmatZ: i think the refit options were reduced to "sensible" ones... e.g. valuables, goods
13:28<frosch123:#openttd>well, I do not know what breaks when you call callback 15 on construction and in the purchase list
13:30<SmatZ:#openttd>frosch123: Eddi|zuHause http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/SCR1.png
13:30<SmatZ:#openttd>it's ttdpatch 1.8.x
13:30<frosch123:#openttd>and ships?
13:31<Elukka:#openttd>heh, i've never played ttdpatch
13:31<SmatZ:#openttd>frosch123: the same
13:32<SmatZ:#openttd>only cargo ship is refittable
13:32<Elukka:#openttd>it was attractive back when openttd didnt have a lot of its features, but i never got around to installing
13:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>custom bridgeheads/basetunnels are still missing
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13:35<frosch123:#openttd>ok, in ottd 0.1 those multipliers only apply to aircraft, which is easy as they only have a default passenger capacity
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13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: translators * r15297 /trunk/src/lang/ (21 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-30 18:45:08
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1)
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by Excel20 (1)
13:45<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by jpx_ (1)
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13:59<el_en:#openttd>glx: i decided to switch back to VMware Server 1.0.8.
14:16<@Belugas:#openttd>[13:28] <SmatZ> frosch123: planes were refittable (and they aren't in OTTD) I think <-- they were in Openttd, at least until someone wh works in aeronautics cut that out, in the name of realism ;)
14:17<Elukka:#openttd>umm, in real life, there are many planes that are used both for cargo and passengers
14:17<Elukka:#openttd>i think in openttd terms, real planes could carry passengers, mail and goods
14:17<Elukka:#openttd>not ore or something, though...
14:17<@Belugas:#openttd>and if memeory serves me well, another someone who works nicely with a beer nearby did manufactured a patch to get them back in, but alas, did not got it into trunk
14:18<Elukka:#openttd>are you talking about planes being able to transport everything?
14:18<@Belugas:#openttd>Elukka, in OpenTTD world, planes are just another mean of tranport, no more no less
14:18<@Belugas:#openttd>yes i am
14:18<Elukka:#openttd>that wouldnt make much sense
14:18<Elukka:#openttd>iron ore 747?
14:18<@Belugas:#openttd>why not?
14:19<Elukka:#openttd>it's silly
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>kuck silliness
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>it;s ony n your mind
14:19<Elukka:#openttd>it's not... you'll hate me for this.. realistic
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>you;re too addicted to reality to see otherwise
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>OPEN YOU EYES TO THE REALITY OF OPENTTD
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>you're in a differnt world
14:19<Elukka:#openttd>openttd is based on reality
14:19<@Belugas:#openttd>BASED
14:20<@Belugas:#openttd>not IS
14:20<Elukka:#openttd>so why make silly jumps out of reality?
14:20<@Belugas:#openttd>and i would even go as to say "INspired"
14:20<@petern:#openttd>did someone say beer?
14:20<@Belugas:#openttd>by reality instead of based
14:20<@Belugas:#openttd>I did :)
14:21<Elukka:#openttd>when a game is based on something distinctly real, like the transport business, the roman empire, or world war 2, i like it to be reasonably realistic
14:22<@Belugas:#openttd>what makes you think that CS did the game to reflect reality?
14:22<@Belugas:#openttd>you are putting intentions to his work
14:22<@petern:#openttd>when a game is based on something distinctlky real, like a racing simulator, or a train simulator (bve?) i like it to be realistic
14:22<@petern:#openttd>and flight sims, of course
14:22<@Belugas:#openttd>indeed
14:22<Elukka:#openttd>in real life, we have the transport business and the things that go on in the game
14:22<Elukka:#openttd>of course it reflects reality
14:22<Noldo:#openttd>how?
14:23<Elukka:#openttd>note, i didnt say its an exact simulation
14:23<@petern:#openttd>anything that involves a tile landscape can shun reality when it wants to
14:23<Elukka:#openttd>why do sawyer's original intentions matter at this point, anyway?
14:23<@petern:#openttd>like in zombie panic, people complain when the guns are not realistic enough...
14:23<@petern:#openttd>but, uh, the zombies... they're realistic?
14:23<SmatZ:#openttd>is real world discrete or not? energy is discrete, but is space?
14:24<Noldo:#openttd>suspending disbelif
14:24<Elukka:#openttd>well
14:24<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>SmatZ: yes, space is believed to be discrete
14:24<Elukka:#openttd>i'm assuming the guns are real
14:24<Noldo:#openttd>SmatZ: ask the quantum physisist
14:24<SmatZ:#openttd>:o)
14:24<Elukka:#openttd>so its justified to criticize them, assuming it wants a degree of realism
14:24<Elukka:#openttd>even if it has zombies
14:25<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>but quantum level is not "realistic" either :)
14:25<@petern:#openttd>not if making them totally realistic adversely affects gameplay
14:25<Elukka:#openttd>yeah
14:25<Elukka:#openttd>i find it often doesnt
14:25<Noldo:#openttd>oh?
14:26<Noldo:#openttd>it must be just your realism then
14:26<Elukka:#openttd>sometimes, it does
14:26<Noldo:#openttd>do you happeen to know how they operated signals before electricity?
14:26-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
14:26<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause2: discrete so it can be "tiled", or discrete so you can move by some minimal distance, but not discrete in the angle you move?
14:26<Elukka:#openttd>how would realistic guns in a shooter make the gameplay worse than semi-realistic guns?
14:26<SmatZ:#openttd>but then it could happen two particles can never meet... ignore it :)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: ever had a shooter where you could get an atomic bomb?
14:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it is certainly "realistic"
14:27<SmatZ:#openttd>Elukka: because of simulated recoil?
14:27<Noldo:#openttd>Elukka: they have to be cleaned
14:27<@Belugas:#openttd>CS created the game. He made it the way it is. He decided of the different proportions as they are. We have to leave with it, keeping the game in a state of CLOSE to reality but still far enough to make it a fantasy world, which it is. There are for more reality-breach than reality-realism on it to make it ... unreal
14:27<Elukka:#openttd>not that realistic
14:27<Noldo:#openttd>aha!
14:28<@Belugas:#openttd>-leave+live
14:28<@petern:#openttd>anyway
14:28<Elukka:#openttd>i dont want my character to need to shit every once in a while
14:28<@petern:#openttd>i found a solution to the reality problem
14:28<@petern:#openttd>beer :D
14:29<@Belugas:#openttd>i'll drink to that!
14:29<Elukka:#openttd>we dont really know CS' intentions
14:29<Elukka:#openttd>and even if we did, why should we care too much?
14:29<thingwath:#openttd>petern: do you have a patch? :)
14:31<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe @ petern
14:35<dihedral:#openttd>Elukka, you needent care too much! the devs do, if you dont like it, checkout trunk and do your own branch somewhere... its open source after all
14:35<Elukka:#openttd>i wouldnt go that far
14:36<@Belugas:#openttd>Elukka, easy enough: 1) the intentions are quite visible within the actual state of the game 2) we have to preserve the feel of the original game, since it was soo popular people are still playing it
14:36<Elukka:#openttd>theoretically, if someone had a way of implementing curved tracks
14:36<Elukka:#openttd>would you have it or not?
14:37<Elukka:#openttd>because i remember you saying it wouldnt feel like ttd
14:37<@Belugas:#openttd>mayube, if it was made in a very good manner, and cold be toggled on/off
14:37<@Belugas:#openttd>indeed, itr would not be ttd-ish
14:37<@Belugas:#openttd>thus, i would not play with it
14:37<Elukka:#openttd>things like that arent really intentions of CS, but technical limitations
14:37<blathijs:#openttd>Elukka: I've spent it a great deal of thought, and it was even taken into account in the map array rewrite years ago
14:38<blathijs:#openttd>Elukka: But currently it is really not technivally possible (yet), nor do I think we really need it
14:38<@Belugas:#openttd>Elukka, now it's my turn to ask you what do you know about CS's intentions ;)
14:38<dihedral:#openttd>or want it? :-)
14:38<Elukka:#openttd>it was a thought experiment!
14:38<Elukka:#openttd>yeah, it's not the most crucial thing
14:38<Elukka:#openttd>i know that 1994 technical limitations were not his intentions :P
14:38<dihedral:#openttd>realism is not crucial in that game at all
14:38<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think you can add quite some curved tracks by considering the trackbits on neighbouring tiles
14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but then you need a lot of graphics
14:39<blathijs:#openttd>Elukka: Adding curved tracks for extra gameplay is one thing, but I don't think it should be because that will make things more realistic (realism sucks)
14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>a) for the tracks
14:39<dihedral:#openttd>Elukka, you know rollercoaster tycoon?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>b) for the vehicles in at least one more set of angles (22.5°)
14:39<Elukka:#openttd>i do
14:39<dihedral:#openttd>now lets talk again about 'technical' limitations at that time
14:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>c) more offsets for vehicles, to go along the curved tracks
14:40<dihedral:#openttd>one carrage in rc had like 6700 sprites
14:40<@petern:#openttd>graphics for tracks is a problem that could be solved at the same time as my railtypes patch
14:40<dihedral:#openttd>to go round the curves
14:40<Elukka:#openttd>in rc it could be implemented, but not in tt
14:41<dihedral:#openttd>there is no need for it in OpenTTD
14:41<dihedral:#openttd>besides: why dont you try to code it?
14:42<@petern:#openttd>or play locomotion, hehe
14:42<dihedral:#openttd>or rc :-D
14:42<dihedral:#openttd>sim city... whats the realism there?
14:43<Elukka:#openttd>sim city 4 is fairly realistic
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14:43<dihedral:#openttd>then play sim city 4
14:43<dihedral:#openttd>this is about TTD not sim city 4 (and i never mentioned sim city 4, i mentioned sim city)
14:44<Elukka:#openttd>well, its a sequel :P
14:44<Elukka:#openttd>why would i play sim city 4 when i want to play a transport game?
14:44<dihedral:#openttd>we are not even at 0.7 yet
14:44<Elukka:#openttd>i said i disagreed with some points, not that i hate the game and dont want to play it
14:44<dihedral:#openttd>why would you moan about the game you want to play so much?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, openttd 4 might very well be a 3d game ;)
14:45-!-Mortomes [~mortomes@e224212.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:45<dihedral:#openttd>you get to drive the train....
14:45<Elukka:#openttd>i dont think discussing our opinions on realism is really moaning
14:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, and you can follow each individual passenger through the network ;)
14:45<dihedral:#openttd>oh - and you have traffic
14:46<Elukka:#openttd>eh, cargodest :p
14:46<dihedral:#openttd>and an undo button incase you drive you train over a truck
14:46<Elukka:#openttd>heh, i remember you could drive trains in locomotion
14:46*dihedral:#openttd thinks of c&c renegade
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14:50<@Belugas:#openttd>undo button...
14:50*Belugas:#openttd vomits
14:51<dihedral:#openttd>yes
14:51<dihedral:#openttd>i cannot believe that kid got at me for my 'bad undo in topic' comment :-D
14:52<Elukka:#openttd>i wouldnt mind an undo button in the scenario editor...
14:52<@Belugas:#openttd>go code it boy :)
14:52<dihedral:#openttd>there we go again
14:52<Elukka:#openttd>its not a major thing
14:52<dihedral:#openttd>is it not
14:53<Elukka:#openttd>i didnt even request it, i said i wouldnt mind it
14:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it's an undo knob, it is totally different from an undo button!
14:53<dihedral:#openttd>buzzzz
14:53<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you can't even be mad at him for not finding anything when searching for "undo knob" :p
14:54<dihedral:#openttd>lol
14:54<dihedral:#openttd>Elukka, you would probably not mind copy & paste either, right?
14:54<Elukka:#openttd>sure, that'd be nice
14:54<Roest:#openttd>actually i'd really like to see c&p in trunk
14:55*dihedral:#openttd runs in circles screaming
14:55<Roest:#openttd>care to elaborate?
14:55<dihedral:#openttd>what is the point of c&p?
14:55<Elukka:#openttd>copying and pasting things.
14:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in all the year(without s) that i played the MiniIN, i used the copy paste feature exactly once. to try out what it does.
14:56<dihedral:#openttd>everything will 1. look the same, 2. will have the same issues
14:56<dihedral:#openttd>you will never learn to improve
14:56<Roest:#openttd>makes tedious things not tedious
14:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have absolutely no tedious things that this feature would make less tedious
14:56<dihedral:#openttd>it's silly
14:56<@Belugas:#openttd>Elukka, being in scenarion or in game mode, it's basically the same
14:56<@Belugas:#openttd>it would be a pita
14:56<Elukka:#openttd>why?
14:56<dihedral:#openttd>read the code and find out
14:57<Elukka:#openttd>i had to reload an older save about 3 times when doing the great lakes
14:57<dihedral:#openttd>search the forums and find out
14:57<Elukka:#openttd>ah, you mean it would be a pita to code
14:57<Elukka:#openttd>i'll believe that :P
14:57<Roest:#openttd>nobody force you to use it but why not offer it to the one that want to
14:57-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:57<Wolf01:#openttd>omg forgot to connect
14:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i want 100.000€, does that mean i get them?
14:58<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: nobody forces you to use 100k€ :P
14:58<dihedral:#openttd>and why not offer the money to those who want it, you dont have to use it if you dont want to
14:58<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: Depends. Are you a bank? Did you lend people money who couldn't afford to pay you back?
14:58<dihedral:#openttd>hehe
14:58<Prof_Frink:#openttd>If so, add a couple of zeros and ask again.
14:59<planetmaker:#openttd>lool :)
14:59<@Belugas:#openttd>thing is, for the engine, most of it is exactly the same, scenario or game more are really much more about a very few rules and guys
14:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Prof_Frink: does "i think i deserve it" count?
14:59<Elukka:#openttd>hey, is it my memory or was there a patch that added a "click once to get signals every nth tile on this whole line" feature?
14:59<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Elukka: ctrl-drag
14:59<Roest:#openttd>so any serious arguments it or just i don't need it so everyone else doesn't
14:59<planetmaker:#openttd>old feature, Elukka
14:59<Elukka:#openttd>wait
14:59<Elukka:#openttd>wait
14:59<Elukka:#openttd>the feature is in the game?
14:59<Wolf01:#openttd>ctrl is a magic key
14:59<planetmaker:#openttd>sure
14:59<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Yup.
14:59<Elukka:#openttd>and i have just not been using it this whole time
15:00<Elukka:#openttd>...
15:00<Elukka:#openttd>i suck
15:00<planetmaker:#openttd>you say it :P
15:00<dihedral:#openttd>Elukka, drag and drop signals over the entire line existed already
15:00*dihedral:#openttd pictures the 'user' placing signals every 2 tiles manually
15:00<planetmaker:#openttd>Elukka: try the same with building bridges, stations, signals
15:00<Elukka:#openttd>"hey, could we get some pie?" "the free pie feature is old, its been in the game forever" "what wait you've been getting pie and i've been missing out?!" "yes"
15:01<Elukka:#openttd>this is my genious tired analogy
15:01<dihedral:#openttd>?
15:01*dihedral:#openttd extends his ignore list
15:02<Elukka:#openttd>anyway
15:02<Prof_Frink:#openttd>dihedral: I have no need to picture it.
15:02<Elukka:#openttd>are there more major rivers in north america that i should add, besides rio grande and mississippi?
15:03<planetmaker:#openttd>missouri?
15:03<planetmaker:#openttd>st. lawrence?
15:03<planetmaker:#openttd>no, wait. McKencie, I think is its name
15:03*dihedral:#openttd enjoys the peace
15:03<planetmaker:#openttd>or something.
15:03<Prof_Frink:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_in_North_America
15:03<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
15:04<Elukka:#openttd>fair amount of work to go through all of them and look their width up though!
15:04<Elukka:#openttd>oh well
15:04<planetmaker:#openttd>I should trust my intuition...
15:05*dihedral:#openttd coughs
15:05<planetmaker:#openttd>St. Lawrence is big enough for ships mostly. And was an important explorer path to Hudson bay
15:05<planetmaker:#openttd>afaik
15:05<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Is it bad that I typed that URL in and it worked?
15:05<planetmaker:#openttd>:) Might be infectuous :P
15:05<Elukka:#openttd>i only have a part of rio grande and most of mississippi
15:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the mississippi has at least half a dozen side rivers
15:06<Elukka:#openttd>because i dont really want to fill the map with smaller rivers
15:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>of significant size
15:06<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
15:06<Elukka:#openttd>should i make mississippi two tiles wide?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>then ther's stuff like the hudson river
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15:07<@Belugas:#openttd>Danphe And The Brain
15:08<@Belugas:#openttd>miam
15:08<@Belugas:#openttd>followed by Local Authority
15:08<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah!
15:09<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
15:09<Elukka:#openttd>i like how there's a swastika shaped building in a us naval base
15:09<@Belugas:#openttd>yurk... and he's watching army stuff :(
15:09*Belugas:#openttd vomits
15:10<Elukka:#openttd>i ran into it!
15:10<Wolf01:#openttd>into the vomit? /me vomits too XD
15:10<Elukka:#openttd>ew.
15:10<planetmaker:#openttd>bon apetit!
15:10<@Belugas:#openttd>lol
15:10<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Eeek! It's an uber-pea!
15:11<@Belugas:#openttd>high five to the Wolf!
15:11*fjb:#openttd hands out paper bags.
15:11<Sacro:#openttd>uber-pea, uber-pea
15:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>appetit, i think
15:11-!-Roest [~schurade@p54B9F891.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
15:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what's an über-pea?
15:12<thingwath:#openttd>And I was about to have dinner.
15:12<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Blode 6.
15:12<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Attack of the Uber-Pea
15:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... i don't remember if i actually saw that...
15:13<Prof_Frink:#openttd>It is rather good.
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15:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... why does my university webspace say 404? the files are there, they have not moved...
15:30<fjb:#openttd>There server has moved? :-)
15:30<dihedral:#openttd>permissions?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if it were permissions, it would say 403, wouldn't it?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>most likely, the admins screwed up...
15:31<dihedral:#openttd>depends
15:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>~> dir public_html -ld
15:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>drwxr-xr-x 4 [...] 2009-01-23 15:12 public_html
15:32<dihedral:#openttd>put a .htaccess in there and allow indexing :-D
15:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and the files in there are of similar permissions
15:37<thingwath:#openttd>yup, permission error most likely would not lead to 404 error
15:42-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E3A5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:45<Wolf01:#openttd>uh... compilation failed on network_content.cpp
15:46<Wolf01:#openttd>C:/msys/home/OpenTTD/trunk_b/src/network/network_content.cpp:392: error: `unlink' was not declared in this scope
15:51-!-angelo2 [~angelo@ppp-94-65-248-156.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:56<Wolf01:#openttd>msvc seem to be able to compile it
15:56<Wolf01:#openttd>time to update msys
15:59<doc:#openttd>ok, what trick am I missing when it comes to oil rigs? 50% of production shipping but I have ships sitting there losing me money every year
16:00<planetmaker:#openttd>do you have full load orders?
16:00<Wolf01:#openttd>timetables might do the trick
16:00<doc:#openttd>yep
16:01<planetmaker:#openttd>they help A LOT, wolf01 :)
16:01<doc:#openttd>hmmm, have to look into timetables then
16:01<planetmaker:#openttd>especially with those ships :)
16:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>doc: do the ships actually earn money at the destination?
16:01<Wolf01:#openttd>try a "stay at station for 15 days"
16:01<doc:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: yep
16:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>maybe you did not catch the oil accepting parts of the refinery
16:02<doc:#openttd>they're transferring to a train
16:02<doc:#openttd>maybe I should watch it for a bit
16:02<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>did you use "unload" instead of "transfer"?
16:03<Elukka:#openttd>oh.
16:03<planetmaker:#openttd>and "leave empty" at the train station
16:03<Elukka:#openttd>we have hydrogen cyanide leaking around in finland from a factory fire
16:03<Elukka:#openttd>also known as zyklon-b
16:03<doc:#openttd>nope, transfer and take cargo (of which there is none)
16:03<@petern:#openttd># flower king of flies
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16:03<planetmaker:#openttd>you ships have "take cargo" at the train station?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>doc: yes, there is, the oil you just unloaded from the ship
16:04<planetmaker:#openttd>then they're bound to have the same oil for an eternal sight-seeing tour abord
16:04<doc:#openttd>bwahaha
16:04<doc:#openttd>that might be it
16:04<doc:#openttd>wtf?
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16:05<@petern:#openttd>UBER PEA
16:05<frosch123:#openttd>petern: what to do with http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/engineid.diff ? it is different to 0.6.3, but all "modern" road vehicle sets rely on trunk behaviour :s
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16:06<@petern:#openttd>i don't get the question :o
16:06<frosch123:#openttd>the road vehicle that returned 116 for var c6 in 0.6.3, returns 0 in trunk
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16:07<@petern:#openttd>mmm
16:07<frosch123:#openttd>can be seen by the grf used in fs#2587. though the author was that evil not to report it, but release a different grf for trunk :p
16:08<@petern:#openttd>problem is that engine_offsets really is irrelevent :/
16:09<@petern:#openttd>and the spec never specifies which should be used
16:11<frosch123:#openttd>well, the new behaviour is easier for the grfauthor :)
16:11<@petern:#openttd>yes
16:11<@petern:#openttd>er
16:11<frosch123:#openttd>just that 0.6.3 and likely ttdp behave differently
16:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>@calc 750*67/3
16:11<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: 16750
16:11<@petern:#openttd>for trains there's no difference
16:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>@calc 750*67/3/2/2500
16:11<@petern:#openttd>and it's probably never been used for ships or aircraft...
16:11<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: 3.35
16:11<@petern:#openttd>(could be wrong though)
16:12<@petern:#openttd>i'd prefer if we could leave it out the offsets
16:14<frosch123:#openttd>so, document 0.6.3 as broken?
16:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"it's a feature" :p
16:15<@petern:#openttd>how does it behave in ttdpatch? :o
16:15<frosch123:#openttd>like 0.6.3
16:15<@petern:#openttd>then 0.6.3 is not broken
16:15<@petern:#openttd>can we document it a change? :o
16:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but... with an engine pool, why should there be offsets?
16:16<@petern:#openttd>exactly
16:16<@petern:#openttd>the question is, how many real sets are out there that are actually broken by the change?
16:17<@petern:#openttd>it does not affect trains, so that's most sets excluded
16:18<frosch123:#openttd>well, var 60 is unlikely used. affected are only those rv/tramsets that use the same ids for articulated parts
16:18<@petern:#openttd>it is cleaner without. what number should you use it you decided to assign engine id 65534...
16:18<@petern:#openttd>hm
16:18<@petern:#openttd>so that's egrvts, which seems to work fine
16:19<frosch123:#openttd>egrvts uses the new behaviour :)
16:19<@petern:#openttd>yeah
16:19<frosch123:#openttd>though I wonder why they do not use livery overrides
16:19<@petern:#openttd>lack of understanding, probably ;)
16:20<el_en:#openttd>eh, step 4 and 5 seem a bit complicated: http://www.3ware.com/KB/Article.aspx?id=15095
16:22<frosch123:#openttd>"GRVTS2 v0.1" does not use that variable
16:22<@petern:#openttd>grvts2?
16:22<frosch123:#openttd>quite old grf before engine pool
16:23<@petern:#openttd>not on general release, is it?
16:23<@petern:#openttd>(though it doesn't matter, heh)
16:23<frosch123:#openttd>do you really think I know where the grfs on my hdd are from?
16:23<@petern:#openttd>:D
16:25<Wolf01:#openttd>how do I check zlib version?
16:26<Wolf01:#openttd>(and maybe libpng too)
16:40<SpComb:#openttd>hmm... any germans present? I need some translation help
16:40<SpComb:#openttd>as in, how to express "some kind of document proving that I'm actually a student at an university this semester" in german
16:41<frosch123:#openttd>Immatrikulationsbescheinigung
16:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>frosch123: That's not a real word.
16:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>It's not long enough to be German.
16:42<SpComb:#openttd>frosch123: awesome, thanks
16:42<@petern:#openttd>"an university" ? i dunno...
16:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>petern: if you pronounce the "u" like god intended them to.
16:45<@petern:#openttd>as i don't believe in a god...
16:45<@petern:#openttd>i pronounce it properly
16:45-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:45<@petern:#openttd># DIAMOND HARD BLUE APPLES OF THE MOON
16:45<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Hello all
16:47<Wolf01:#openttd>ok, I compiled fine this time... but after a look at the drawing code I closed the window :P
16:50<SpComb:#openttd>my German probably sucks when writing complicated emails like this one :/
16:51<SpComb:#openttd>but maybe I can pass myself off as a German who just wrote this out quickly
16:53<el_en:#openttd>why not write in swedish
16:53<SpComb:#openttd>but I've got the "mfg" and everything
16:53<SpComb:#openttd>I don't know swedish at all
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16:57<+glx:#openttd>Wolf01: just update libpng
16:57<+glx:#openttd>I guess you already have zlib 1.2.3
16:57<Wolf01:#openttd>yes I have it
16:59*Belugas:#openttd is rushing to the nearest bus station
16:59<@Belugas:#openttd>nightall and good weekend
16:59<@petern:#openttd>gnight
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17:27<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
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17:33<el_en:#openttd>-· ·· --­· ···· -
17:34<Prof_Frink:#openttd>That's doing funny things to my terminal.
17:34<Prof_Frink:#openttd>It changes length when I highlight part of it!
17:36<Elukka:#openttd>goddamn but the mississippi has a huge number of major tributaries
17:36<Sacro:#openttd>oh noes a frink
17:36<Elukka:#openttd>and i cant find a decent map of des moines :/
17:37<Sacro:#openttd>lo mr frinkleton
17:37<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Oh gawds a Sacro
17:37<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Wotcha matey
17:37<Sacro:#openttd>bonzar
17:38*Sacro:#openttd wonders where all the sheilas are
17:38<Elukka:#openttd>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Desmoinesrivermap.png
17:38<Elukka:#openttd>i cant decipher where this actually is
17:38<Elukka:#openttd>is the river to the east mississippi?
17:38<Sacro:#openttd>perhaps
17:38<Nite_Owl:#openttd>yes
17:39<Elukka:#openttd>what's the one to the west`
17:39<Elukka:#openttd>?*
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>a big empty void
17:40<Nite_Owl:#openttd>not sure what the one right next to the city is
17:40<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Elukka: Piddle.
17:41<Nite_Owl:#openttd>The one further west should be the Missouri
17:41<Elukka:#openttd>heh, there actually is a river piddle
17:41<Elukka:#openttd>ah, ok
17:41<Elukka:#openttd>thanks
17:41<Elukka:#openttd>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Riverpiddle1.jpg
17:41<Elukka:#openttd>piddle.
17:45<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Elukka: Yes, it's just west of here.
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18:30<Elukka:#openttd>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/north.png?t=1233358131
18:30<Elukka:#openttd>this much is done..
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>what about using freeform map edges?
18:40<Elukka:#openttd>what's a freeform map edge?
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>no need for water at the edge
18:41<Elukka:#openttd>!
18:41<Elukka:#openttd>how?
18:41<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>"Allow terraforming of the map edge" or something
18:41<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>in nightlies
18:42<Elukka:#openttd>hmm
18:42<Elukka:#openttd>nope, dont have that
18:43<SmatZ:#openttd>Freeform map edges
18:44<SmatZ:#openttd>what version are you using?
18:45<Elukka:#openttd>uh
18:45<Elukka:#openttd>something bizarre with the cargodest patch
18:46<SmatZ:#openttd>aha
18:46<SmatZ:#openttd>you know clean trunk won't be able to load your map
18:47<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>even future versions of cargodest are unlikely to load your map
18:47<Elukka:#openttd>ow :/
18:47<Elukka:#openttd>i didnt think scenario files were that fussy
18:47<Eddi|zuHause2:#openttd>generally speaking: do not make scenarios with modified builds
18:47<Elukka:#openttd>too late now
18:47-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
18:47<@petern:#openttd>scenario == save game with a different extension
18:49<Elukka:#openttd>it actually saves data related to cargodest in the scn file?
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18:50<Nite_Owl:#openttd>if you still have the heightmap just load it into a different version - like clean trunk
18:51<Elukka:#openttd>i've spent about 6 hours doing rivers and stuff, so that wouldnt help much
18:52<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Ahhh - oh well
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18:54<Elukka:#openttd>"Broken save game - Invalid chunk size"
18:54<Elukka:#openttd>you know
18:54<Elukka:#openttd>this kinda sucks
18:56<Zuu:#openttd>Heh, built a nice (looking) highwaysystem in my SimCity4 map, but most citienses takes the bus or train so it is not very much used. :-)
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19:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zuu: solution is easy, remove the bus and train service :p
19:02<Zuu:#openttd>:-)
19:02<Elukka:#openttd>so is there no way at all to get this scenario to work on other versions?
19:03<Zuu:#openttd>I shall keep that trick in mind to increase usage rate of roads, when I start work as a traffic planer when I have finished my studies. :-p
19:04<Zuu:#openttd>Elukka: Not without good knowledge about the savegame format and a hexeditor plus lot of time.
19:04<Elukka:#openttd>:/
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19:04<Elukka:#openttd>so basically its useless and i wasted a lot of effort
19:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: or the copy-paste patch might work ;)
19:04<Zuu:#openttd>You can play it on that specific cargodest devrsion.
19:05<SmatZ:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: great idea :)
19:05<Elukka:#openttd>i wont be playing this particular revision forever
19:05<Zuu:#openttd> /dversion/version/
19:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Zuu: pattern not found.
19:05<Zuu:#openttd> /devrsion/version/
19:06<Zuu:#openttd>:-)
19:06<Elukka:#openttd>why does it save things particular to one version in the scenario file/save game?
19:06<SmatZ:#openttd>in what format should it save the game then?
19:07<@Rubidium:#openttd>.docx?
19:07<SmatZ:#openttd>if you want 0.4.8 savegame format, create it in OTTD 0.4.8 :-p
19:07<SmatZ:#openttd>.xml !
19:07<Elukka:#openttd>i mean, why is something that amounts to just a map with trees, terrain and buildings particular to any version?
19:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: backwards compatibility is only maintained for official releases and nightlies, not branches or inofficial builds
19:07<Elukka:#openttd>this doesnt have forwards compatibility either
19:08<Elukka:#openttd>i'm just confused as to why having cargodest matters
19:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if you want forward-compatible savegames, play TTDPatch
19:08<@Rubidium:#openttd>cargodest adds a few settings to the game
19:08<Zuu:#openttd>Including changes to the savegame format
19:10<Elukka:#openttd>:/
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19:20<el_en:#openttd>ah, Sternenteile is Star bits in english.
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19:34<rortom:#openttd>hi all :D
19:35<rortom:#openttd>update > http://rigsofrods.blogspot.com/ :D
19:37<Sacro:#openttd>rortom: new version?
19:37*Sacro:#openttd has quad core and a 9800GTX+ in preperation
19:37-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:39<rortom:#openttd>very soon :)
19:39-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:39<rortom:#openttd>1 - 2 weeks
19:39<rortom:#openttd>quad core is good
19:39-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:39<rortom:#openttd>thats the same machine i developed RoR with :p
19:39<rortom:#openttd>should work well :)
19:40<Sacro:#openttd>rortom: what new features? :D
19:40*Sacro:#openttd loves to break the pysics
19:40<Sacro:#openttd>*physics
19:41<rortom:#openttd>~ 1 a4 page ...
19:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>that doesn't say much about the amount of 'data'
19:42<rortom:#openttd>haha :p
19:42<rortom:#openttd>i knew that would come from you ;)
19:42<rortom:#openttd>let me search a changelog ...
19:44<Sacro:#openttd>hehe :)
19:45<rortom:#openttd>also, i saw some people publish code under creativecommons.org licenses
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19:45<rortom:#openttd>very uncommon i guess
19:45<@Rubidium:#openttd>trunk has ~8 major features, ~75 features and ~50 significant (for 0.6 users) bugfixes since the 0.6 release
19:46<@Rubidium:#openttd>that's ofcourse speaking of OpenTTD
19:46<rortom:#openttd>wow, nice :D
19:46<rortom:#openttd>how you track those? flyspray?
19:47<SmatZ:#openttd>rortom: svn logs
19:47<rortom:#openttd>ah, thats what i am currently going through ...
19:48<SmatZ:#openttd>:)
19:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>forgot to mention the 3000 commits ;)
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19:50<rortom:#openttd>quite a bit ;)
19:50<rortom:#openttd>we are currently at 1873
19:50<rortom:#openttd>but we tend to merge well cooked features in a large commit
19:54<@Rubidium:#openttd>rortom: you shouldn't say that you're going to release in X weeks as the chances are quite high you won't make it
19:54<@Rubidium:#openttd>just release it when it's done and when people least expect it ;)
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19:56*Rubidium:#openttd personally dislikes the concept of roadmaps too. It only makes people think a feature will be in and then they get disappointed when it doesn't make it
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19:59<rortom:#openttd>Rubidium: we are done with coding, we are just waiting for the content :)
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20:02*Rubidium:#openttd is happy we don't have to wait for the NewGRF authors
20:02-!-fjb [~frank@p5485E9AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02<rortom:#openttd>hehe ;)
20:08<rortom:#openttd>writing changelogs is no fun :\
20:14<+glx:#openttd>svn log does it
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20:17<rortom:#openttd>http://ror1.pastebin.com/d85c4bc5
20:17<rortom:#openttd>svn logs contain too much info in our case ;)
20:23<rortom:#openttd>:\
20:23<rortom:#openttd>just got my traffic warning, used 906 GB / 1TB this month.
20:24<Sacro:#openttd>ouch
20:25<rortom:#openttd>i am really glad we have some mirrors
20:26<rortom:#openttd>we couldnt do the 4234 GB all in all by ourself
20:26-!-rtypo [tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd
20:26<rortom:#openttd>(btw, someone has spare traffic?) ;)
20:27-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
20:30<rortom:#openttd>btw, how much downloads does openttd have per months?
20:31-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
20:31-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
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20:42<SmatZ:#openttd>rortom: http://www.openttd.org/en/stats :)
20:43<rortom:#openttd>searched that, thanks :)
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21:02<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>rortom, spare traffic for what?
21:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why are there more win32 downloads than all other targets together?
21:13<kd5pbo:#openttd>There are more windows users?
21:13<kd5pbo:#openttd>Are there more Windows users?
21:13<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>Of course there are.
21:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>more users there are windows?
21:15<Sacro:#openttd>legal windows
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21:40<fjb:#openttd>Non windows users checkout from svn. :-)
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21:43<Sacro:#openttd>I sometimes use svn, sometimes grab a tar.bz2
21:43<Sacro:#openttd>inw indwos and linux
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 31 00:00:38 2009