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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-05

---Logopened Thu Feb 05 00:00:46 2009
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03:02<dihedral>Belugas you're a hero: src/table/unmovable_land.h:96: error: '_original_unmovable' was declared 'extern' and later 'static'
03:02<dihedral>src/unmovable.h:24: error: previous declaration of '_original_unmovable'
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03:07<@Rubidium>that MSVC would allow such code
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03:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15351 /trunk/src/table/unmovable_land.h: -Fix (r15350): gcc compile failure
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03:28<dihedral>thanks Rubidium
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04:09<@petern> bah
04:09<@petern>why do rechargable batteries suck so much in digital cameras?
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04:18<dihedral>petern: whats the mAh of the battery?
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04:20<@petern>1800... not that good but should last more than 15 minutes....
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04:31<dihedral>petern, how old are the batteries, and are they NiCad or NiMH
04:31<dihedral>sorry - NiCd
04:33<planetmaker>petern: if cameras require batteries instead of accumulators the difference is voltage: batteries have 1.5V as opposed to 1.2V of accumulators
04:34<@petern>NiMH, yes
04:34<planetmaker>--> accumulators suck when used instead...
04:34<planetmaker>well... rechargable batteries
04:35<@petern>any modern device, especially cameras, should be made with 1.2V in mind
04:36<planetmaker>My year 2000 camera was still not build with that in mind...
04:37<planetmaker>fortunately my newer one is :)
04:38<Roest>hmm that might explain why my 2000 built camera eats rechargeables like nothing
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07:04<Roujin>chrees ;)
07:06<Roujin>about those four strings that were missing "on/off".. I made another diff that changes those in english.txt and removes them in all the other languages, plus uses the situation for renaming STR_CONFIG_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD to STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD for consistency
07:08<Roujin>that fine?
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07:10<@petern>Why remove the old strings when they just need {ORANGE}{STRING} added?
07:12<Roujin>uhm, to give the translators some work? seriously, i thought that was way to go after the discussion yesterday..
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07:13<@Rubidium>petern: I'd reckon strings might need reworking due to the addition of the {ORANGE}{STRING}
07:13<@petern>doesn't seem very sensible
07:13<@petern>i don't
07:13<@petern>it's not like it's part of the grammar
07:15<Roujin>well, I've got time now so I can make a new diff that changes the strings instead of removing them, if you prefer that... but should I keep this renaming in, or do you object?
07:16<@Rubidium>the renaming's fine I'd say
07:17<planetmaker>which then needs renaming in every language :P
07:17<@petern>i'd say add {ORANGE}{STRING} to english and then let the translators deal with it
07:17<@petern>planetmaker: not hard...
07:17<@Rubidium>petern: then you end up with months of warnings when compiling
07:17<planetmaker>sed... :)
07:17<@petern>perl -pi -e 's/CONFIG_MODIFIED/CONFIG_PATCHES_MODIFIED/g' *
07:18<@Rubidium>that breaks alignment ;)
07:18<@petern>easy to solve that
07:18<@petern>give the translators a couple of weeks, and remove any after then
07:18<planetmaker>alignment thingies?
07:19<@petern>just be intelligent and add it based on how the others are done
07:19<planetmaker>well... I translate usually using the webinterface :)
07:19<Roujin>so you'd rather go with the warnings?
07:19<planetmaker>Either it automatically aligns things then ... or poof.
07:19<Roest>planetmaker your comment to #2601 makes no sense
07:19<planetmaker>Roest: I might have mis-understood the intention of your patch
07:21<planetmaker>what does it do then?
07:21<Roest>vehicle price goes red when you cant afford it
07:22<planetmaker>oh... :P
07:22<Roujin>petern: so you'd rather go with the warnings until the translators fix their strings, than changing all the non-english files?
07:23<@petern>that's just my opinion though
07:23<planetmaker>Roest: thanks. Comment removed :)
07:24<planetmaker>petern: that may take long(er) for some languages... IMO it looks bad. Then rather delete it.
07:28*Rubidium wonders how long the warnings will stay
07:28<@petern>i'm not project leader, no need to do as i'd like :p
07:29<Roujin>so who is, then? :P
07:31<@Rubidium>hmm... totally forgot
07:31-!-mode/#openttd [+o Sacro] by Rubidium
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07:31<melwil>hi, when using a dedicated server which is run on linux through a shell, how can I start a game with a set map size?
07:32<@petern>patch map_x / map_y
07:32<@petern>where 8 == 2^8 == 256
07:32<melwil>hmm, ok! thanks =)
07:38<planetmaker>melwil: or upload an accordingly modified openttd.cfg to your server prior to restarting a game.
07:42<melwil>well, I couldn't find any such setting in the cfg file =/
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08:01<glm2006ITALY>hello all :)
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08:04<dihedral>melwil, they are there, the settings i mean
08:04<dihedral>map_x and map_y
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08:05<dihedral>and if they are not, run ./openttd -D -c openttd.cfg
08:05<glm2006ITALY>is very good game OpenTTD
08:05<dihedral>and quit again, then atleast you should have all the settings in the config file you are missing
08:06<glm2006ITALY>but speed game is avalaible for off-line games?
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08:07<dihedral>you mean fast forward?
08:07<dihedral>the button right next to the pause button?
08:07<dihedral>that is available for single player only, yes
08:08<glm2006ITALY>game similar mode
08:08<glm2006ITALY>Speed Server
08:08<glm2006ITALY>is possibke'
08:08<glm2006ITALY>ops possible?
08:08<dihedral>i have no idea what you are trying to ask
08:08<glm2006ITALY>ok :(
08:08<dihedral>but i am sure you will find an answer at
08:08<glm2006ITALY>new questions
08:08<glm2006ITALY> there is a possibility of improving the artificial intelligence of the game?
08:09<glm2006ITALY>automatic google traslate
08:09<dihedral>try :-P
08:09<dihedral>or babelfish
08:09<Digitalfox>Congrats Sacro at being an OP =0
08:09<glm2006ITALY>i use
08:09<dihedral>so - you want to modify the ai
08:10<Yexo>glm2006ITALY: yes, try a nightly build instead of 0.6.3
08:10<glm2006ITALY>good good good....
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08:10<dihedral>Digitalfox, we're all gonna die......
08:10<glm2006ITALY>please speak and write simple enghlis :)
08:10<glm2006ITALY>ops english
08:10<Digitalfox>dihedral true ;)
08:11<Digitalfox>dihedral was this posted before?
08:12<glm2006ITALY>good bye...
08:12<glm2006ITALY>work calls
08:12<dihedral>Yexo, very simple indeed
08:14<dihedral>Digitalfox, they want money for their work?
08:14<dihedral>and claim they donate it to openttd?
08:16<Digitalfox>dihedral really?
08:16<Digitalfox>I'm going to try now on iphone
08:17<dihedral>no - i was asking if that was _that_ company
08:17<dihedral>i know there is one that claims any donations to them would be forwarded to orudge or something
08:17<Digitalfox>oh no
08:17<Digitalfox>it seems you just have to add the repository
08:19<Digitalfox>6.8 MB... Let's how it works
08:19<Digitalfox>*Let's see
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08:23<Digitalfox>well it's build r15332
08:23<Digitalfox>and it's free
08:23<Digitalfox>It brings graphics and sound
08:25<Digitalfox>wow, I have to say this port is pretty awesome, the touch screen works pretty well
08:31-!-mode/#openttd [-o Sacro] by Rubidium
08:32<@Rubidium>it's "free" and "brings graphics and sound" don't mix
08:33<@Rubidium>packaging it with the original sounds and graphics makes it pretty... uhm... illegal?
08:33<+glx>"Well it’s just the coolest game based off of Transport Tycoon Deluxe’s sourcecode!" <-- that's just wrong
08:33<@Rubidium>still, they should be providing the sources
08:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15352 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp town_type.h): -Codechange: make the arguments passed around while founding a town a bit more readable
08:34<NukeBuster>too bad, it's now spreading a version of ottd which includes graphics and sounds and infrigments copyright :(
08:34<NukeBuster>where is his modified source by the way?
08:35<dihedral>NukeBuster: simply mail them and ask for it
08:35<@Rubidium>dihedral: that's not enough
08:35<dihedral>is it not upon request?
08:36<@Rubidium>dihedral: section 3 of COPYING
08:36<Yexo>dihedral: Have you seen a written offer for the source on their site?
08:37<NukeBuster>i don't see any...
08:37<@Rubidium>you may copy if: a) you have the source codes besides the binaries, b) you give people a written offer valid for at least 3 years, c) other offer information on how to obtain the sources
08:38<@Rubidium>c would mean he's providing a diff
08:38<Yexo>no, 3) is only valid if you received your binary via b)
08:38<melwil>how would I go about setting new grf settings if I can't use the GUI?
08:38<dihedral>accompany could mean it's in the package you download
08:39<Yexo>melwil: set them in the config file
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08:39<Sacro>Yeah, my housemate has the iPhone version, he showed me it on the walk to uni
08:39<NukeBuster>it's an iphone app...
08:39<melwil>Yexo: any page that shows how the syntax is for that?
08:39<Yexo>not really sure
08:39<Yexo>just path/to/newgrf.grf = param1 param2
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08:39<Yexo>after the '=' just add the parameters as you would do in the gui
08:40<melwil>ah, I'll look into it then, thanks =)
08:40<Sacro>Digitalfox: i'm an op now?
08:40<Yexo>Sacro: you was for a few hours
08:41<Yexo>[13:30] * Rubidium geeft kanaal-operator status aan Sacro
08:42<Yexo>[14:31] * Rubidium verwijdert kanaal-operator status van Sacro
08:42<Sacro>Rubidium: why was i opped for an hour?
08:42<dihedral>Sacro, read lines just before you got opped
08:43<Sacro>Yeah, I see now
08:43<Sacro>I think i'd make a good channel op
08:43<Sacro>been here a long time now :p
08:43<Sacro>Ic ould replace Bjarni, that'd be funny and ironic
08:43<NukeBuster>isn't there something in the gpl that states that you must actively defend your licence?
08:43<SmatZ>Sacro: you could replace yorick well
08:44<Yexo>NukeBuster: not as far as I know
08:44*welshdragon wants to replace somebody
08:44*Yexo gives all the work someone should to do welshdragon :p
08:44<NukeBuster>He's not including the data files according to:
08:44<welshdragon>hmm, i could finish the welsh translation
08:45<Sacro>SmatZ: Indeedy
08:45<Sacro>what happebned to him?
08:45<@Rubidium>NukeBuster: that's an old version you're talking about
08:45<Sacro>NukeBuster: don't think so
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08:46<SmatZ>Sacro: I don't know
08:47<dihedral>Sacro, then fix some os x stuff please
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08:47<@Rubidium>NukeBuster: 6.8 MB for the file is ~3 MB more than the 'official' binaries
08:47<Sacro>dihedral: when I can get it to buld then i will
08:48*Sacro would replace Bjarni as I run OSX, I'm well known and much hated :D
08:48<Sacro>I get fontcache issues
08:48<dihedral>i dont
08:48<Sacro>on OSX?
08:49<dihedral>10.4 though
08:49<@Rubidium>dihedral: 10.4.? (or even 10.3.?), Sacro: 10.5.?
08:49<Sacro>ahh, 10.5.6 here
08:49<dihedral>Rubidium, 10.4.9
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08:50<Sacro>this AI lecture is sucky
08:50<welshdragon>dihedral: upgrade!
08:50<dihedral>welshdragon, nope
08:50<dihedral>oh wait.... 10.4.11 is out right?
08:51<Sacro>I think so, yes
08:51<+glx>Rubidium: indeed TTD files are in the .deb
08:51<dihedral>yeah - i have 10.4.11 :-P
08:51<@Rubidium>the windows ones to be precise
08:52<welshdragon>Sacro: don't you finish your lecture soon?
08:52*welshdragon isn't ready :P
08:52<Sacro>Rubidium: yes, my huosemate had to add none himself
08:52<Sacro>welshdragon: oh god i hope so
08:52<Sacro>he's ranting about asians or something
08:53<welshdragon>Sacro: can i meet you on Bev Road>
08:53<Sacro>welshdragon: pfft
08:53<Sacro>i want a sammich :(
08:54<welshdragon>Sacro: outside Benedict's then?
08:54<Sacro>welshdragon: that's a long walk :(
08:54<Sacro>yeah, could go to benedicts
08:54<Sacro>and thne pop into work
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08:55<welshdragon>Sacro: fine by mw
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08:56<Sacro>yeah, iconv_open errors on linking
08:57<Sacro>"_iconv_open", referenced from:
08:57<planetmaker>[14:48] <Sacro> I get fontcache issues <-- what kind of issues?
08:57<welshdragon>Sacro: i;ll give you another 20 minutes
08:57<Sacro>welshdragon: hm
08:57<welshdragon>well, 30
08:58<Sacro>might as well just go home
08:58<welshdragon>Sacro: it only takes 10 minutes to get from uni to benedicts
08:58<Sacro>planetmaker: Undefined symbols:
08:58<Sacro> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
08:58<Sacro> FS2OTTD(char const*)in unix.o
08:58<Sacro> OTTD2FS(char const*)in unix.o
08:58<Sacro> "_iconv", referenced from:
08:58<Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
08:58<Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
08:58<Sacro>not fontcache, iconv
08:58<planetmaker>oh? interesting... you're on leopard, right...?
08:59<welshdragon>5 if you are quick
08:59<Sacro>planetmaker: yep
09:00<Sacro>ah, libiconv is in macports
09:00<Sacro>can't install it whilst at Uni :(
09:00*Sacro will try when he gets home
09:01<planetmaker>those are necessary, indeed.
09:01<planetmaker>I thought something similar like when I select hebrew as language. :P A sea of questionmarks right ahead in that case :P
09:02<Sacro>well the wiki needs updating
09:02<Sacro>ah, lecture over
09:02*Sacro leaves
09:02*planetmaker waves at Sacro
09:02<welshdragon>Sacro: see you soon then
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09:11<+glx>planetmaker: question marks is because there's no font autoselect ;)
09:11<planetmaker>glx: I know...
09:11<+glx>and of course you also need libicu
09:11<planetmaker>... just got the API references. With a bit of luck, I'll have time tomorrow in the train to have alook
09:12<planetmaker>... hm... what's "libicu" - another library?
09:12<planetmaker>then I should get those reference, too :)
09:19<@petern>debian calls git a 'content addressable filesystem' ... whatever happened to 'version control system'?
09:19<@petern>Description: content addressable filesystem This is a stupid (but extremely fast) directory content manager. It doesn't do a whole lot, but what it 'does' do is track directory contents efficiently.
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09:23<@Belugas>hello petern
09:23<blathijs>petern: I get Description: fast, scalable, distributed revision control system
09:23<blathijs>petern: On the git-core package
09:23<planetmaker>salut Belugas
09:23<melwil>wrong player-id in DoCommand <-- what does that mean?
09:24<@Belugas>dihedral, what shold i do about your attitude? put you on ignore? kick you? laugh about your impatience? Critisize you about your lack of understanding? or just do nothing?
09:24<@Belugas>salut planetmaker. alors, ca boume?
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09:24<dihedral>Belugas, have you no sense of humor?
09:25<dihedral>at least someone picked up on it!
09:25<melwil>noone knows? =(
09:25<Yexo>melwil: how did you get that message?
09:25<planetmaker>hm... I think I understand your words, Belugas - but they don't make sense to me :P
09:25<melwil>I don't know.. if I did, I would have changed it..
09:26<@petern>blathijs: i'm on etch
09:26<planetmaker>melwil: usually if you erronously try to execute something as a different player. I shouldn't happen in unpatched versions.
09:26<dihedral>melwil, 0.6.3?
09:26<melwil>dihedral: yes
09:26<dihedral>you got that message, or someone connected to your server?
09:26<melwil>someone connected to my server
09:26<melwil>but I'm connected to the same server
09:27<Yexo>then that other person tried to cheat
09:27<melwil>and he gets it instantly when joining
09:27<dihedral>either they connected from SA (i have seen that happen a few times with people connecting from SA)
09:27<melwil>I can assure you he is not trying to cheat
09:27<dihedral>or someone on purpose tried to act as a different company
09:27<dihedral>South Africa
09:27<@Belugas>planetmaker, it's a salute and wondering if it's all fine with you :)
09:27<melwil>well, he's from norway, in the same room as me =P
09:27<@Belugas>dihedral, well.. not really that early in the mornuing, no
09:28<dihedral>Belugas, read it in a few hours again :-P
09:28<planetmaker>Belugas: :) thx for asking - yeah, doing pretty well :) I hope you, too :) - and I guess my french is worse than I hope(d) :P
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09:32<melwil>could this be caused by the fact that he jsut copied the whole install folder from another person?
09:33<melwil>well, it helped him to reinstall it anyway
09:33<dihedral>it's sending an action as a company other than the server expects to receive from that client
09:36<melwil>hmm, weird
09:36<dihedral>yes - should actually not happen
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09:40<SmatZ>STR_SCENARIO_EDITOR_CITY_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found
09:40<SmatZ>any native English speaker?
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09:42<@Rubidium>planetmaker/dihedral: why no? Maybe the person he copied it from played a patched binary
09:42<@Belugas>mmh... interesting, concept wise ->
09:44<@Rubidium>but then you need to do it *everywhere*
09:44<@Rubidium>making buttons red because you can't build rail
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09:44<@Rubidium>or making the rail thingy red because you don't have enough money
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09:46<planetmaker>the latter is a bad idea as that's reserved for removing...
09:48<Roest>i wouldn't say you need to do it for everything, for vehicles i find it useful because they tend to cost alot and especially in the beginning i sometimes find myself waiting for money to buy the next engine or plane
09:49<Yexo>Roest: what about funding industries and town actions?
09:52<Roest>ok good point, so for consistency it should be everywhere where a cost string is drawn
09:52<@Belugas>true, Rubidium, true
09:53<@Belugas>this is why i mentionned the "concept" word, as ... the idea is interesting
09:53<@Belugas>not that the patch as-is is
09:54<@Belugas>on the other hand, guiding the user for every action he'll have to do is kind of a bore
09:55<Roest>giving visual clues isn't really guiding through every step
09:55<SmatZ>petern: :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found <- is that gramatically fine?
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10:02<@Belugas>Roest, to some extend, it does, much like the red square of tile selection. the more cues given, the more fingers been hold on the hand
10:02<@Belugas>or something like that :S
10:02<@Belugas>SmatZ, i fail to understand the last part...
10:03<@Belugas>or rather the link to the first part
10:04<SmatZ>Belugas: there's no link between it :)
10:05<dihedral>Rubidium, if it were a modified copy, and both clients do the same thing, and only one gets that error - dont you think that sounds a wee bit odd?
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10:07<@Rubidium>dihedral: "copied from another person" != "copied from me"
10:07<dihedral>oh - i misread him
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10:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15353 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): make it possible to have cities of various sizes
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10:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15354 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Fix (r14803): first shared of a vehicle could be NULL making it impossible to (share-)clone the vehicle.
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15355 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_vehiclelist.cpp: -Codechange: simplify some stuff now ->FirstShared returns non-NULL again.
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15356 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make PlaceProc_Town and some global variables a static function/variables of the scenedit window
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11:15<OsteHovel^EEE>anyone here has any knowledge about compilling GCC that targets Linux on Cygwin?
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11:37<planetmaker>[15:55] <SmatZ> petern: :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found <- is that gramatically fine? <--- no.
11:37<planetmaker>It's founded
11:38<@petern>maybe they were hidden
11:38<planetmaker>found-founded-founded as opposed to find-found-found
11:38<planetmaker>hehe :P
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11:43<planetmaker>sorry, SmatZ, didn't see that before... :)
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11:49<SmatZ>planetmaker: better than if you saw it and didn't reply ;) it can still be fixed
11:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15357 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: unify the way buttons are updated in the 'found town' window
11:55<planetmaker>hehe :) well hidden typo fix :)
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11:55<SmatZ>I wonder if it is gramatically correct now
11:56<planetmaker>Well. Grammar is ok, I think.
11:56<planetmaker>But I'm no native speaker :)
11:57<@Rubidium>but then, who speaks native?
11:57<SmatZ>there are some :) I asked them, highlihted them, but didn't receive any reply
11:57<planetmaker>buuaeeeea :P
11:57<planetmaker>^^ universal language world wide ;)
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12:05<kosher>Hello, can I ask a newby question? I have looked over the web, forums and wiki but found no answer...
12:06<Vikthor>Don't ask if you can ask and ask straight away
12:07<kosher>How to access the 'local authority window'? The place where I am supposed to advertise/bribe etc.?
12:07<frosch123>click on the town name
12:07<Vikthor>click on the town name
12:07<Vikthor>grr one second
12:08<kosher>found it
12:08<kosher>thanx guys for quick help
12:11<SmatZ>click on the town name
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12:19<Vikthor>SmatZs reactions are somewhat slow :p
12:20<Yexo>says Vikthor after 9 minutes...
12:23<@Belugas>SmatZ works a lot and is not always staring at the IRC screen ;)
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12:24*planetmaker hugs workoholic SmatZ
12:27<dihedral>i want a hug toooo
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12:27*SmatZ hugs dihedral and planetmaker
12:28*planetmaker hugs dihedral
12:28<SmatZ> :)
12:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15358 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIEventVehicleCrashed::GetCrashReason()
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12:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15359 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIEventVehicleCrashed::CRASH_RV_UFO, AIEventDisasterZeppelinerCrashed and AIEventDisasterZeppelinerCleared as aliens accepted NoAIs as competing life-form.
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12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15360 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: Flooding vehicles did not trigger an AI event.
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12:54<planetmaker> <-- fixing a typo and a piece of coding style, if one cares :)
12:56<SmatZ>:) maybe you can change "Layout of expenses window" to lowercase l
13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15361 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp settings_type.h): -Cleanup: minor comment style fixes (planetmaker)
13:00<planetmaker>he :) That's quick. TY, Smatz :)
13:01<planetmaker>the random "stumbled upon oddities" of yesterday :)
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13:13<TrueBrain>lol @ frosch123: "as aliens accepted NoAIs as competing life-form. "
13:14<TrueBrain>frosch123: minor typo in doxygen: remvoed
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13:15<Wolf01>evening (GMT+1:00)
13:16<Yexo>hello Wolf01
13:16<TrueBrain>lol @ Wolf01 :p
13:16<Yexo>hi TrueBrain
13:17<TrueBrain>hello Yexo
13:17<Wolf01>gaah, I'm stressed, too much work@work this month
13:17<TrueBrain>how are you this day? :)
13:17<frosch123>hello TrueBrain :)
13:17*dihedral waves hello to TrueBrain
13:18<Yexo>I'm fine, everything is ok around here. How are you?
13:19<TrueBrain>dihedral: and here you do talk to me? Pfff :p
13:19<TrueBrain>doing fine too, tnx :)
13:20<TrueBrain>well .. getting a bit annoyed by LeaseWeb
13:20<@orudge>'lo TrueBrain
13:20<SmatZ>TrueBrain: is the web going to die today again at 20:03 ?
13:21<TrueBrain>they requested root access for a valid reason, so I asked them to give a ssh public key ... took quiet a while before someone understood what we meant ... :p
13:21<@orudge>What's LeaseWeb been doing? :/
13:21<TrueBrain>SmatZ: lets hope not ...
13:21*|Japa| wishes he could us multiple gfx sets for signals
13:21<TrueBrain>SmatZ: last 2 days we have had tons of link up/downs ...
13:21<TrueBrain>might be VirtualBox ... or LeaseWeb ... hard to trace
13:22<TrueBrain>orudge: tnx again for the dns thingy, it works nicely :)
13:22<TrueBrain>I dunno if anyone has an other bright idea what might cause a eth to give a link-down message ...
13:22<TrueBrain>to me it reads: switch is giving up, and is rebooting :p
13:24<TrueBrain>I wish I knew other IPs which were on the same switch ... :p
13:25<dihedral>TrueBrain, query with snmp, use the word 'public' :-D
13:26<TrueBrain>and that indeed shows me the other links of the switch ... sigh :p
13:26<TrueBrain>I might strongly hope the switch is not bind on a public IP ...
13:26<dihedral>just need to know the correct MIBs
13:29<TrueBrain>but sniffing arp requests is a valid method :) hehe :)
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13:39<TrueBrain>General Notice: todays nightly will be delayed with 15 minutes
13:40<FauxFaux>Delayed by 15 minutes.
13:40<TrueBrain>@kick FauxFaux oh please ...
13:40-!-FauxFaux was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [oh please ...]
13:40-!-FauxFaux [] has joined #openttd
13:41<FauxFaux>You can't interrupt International Pedantry Hour!
13:41-!-TinoM| [] has joined #openttd
13:41<@orudge>but he just did! :p
13:41<FauxFaux>Pedant! <3
13:42*orudge toodles off
13:42<TrueBrain>bye orudge :)
13:43<|Japa|>OTTD is officialy the only game I know that provides a 64bit version
13:43<+glx>TrueBrain: is the 15min delay required for some tests ?
13:43<TrueBrain>|Japa|: I guess that says most about your knowledge of games :p
13:43-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43<TrueBrain>glx: we want to make absolutely sure we are not the reason for our interface interuptions
13:43<FauxFaux>|Japa|: FEAR does.
13:43-!-const86 [~const@] has quit [Quit: I'll be back]
13:44<TrueBrain>as the nightlies boot up VMs, which in theory could be messing with interfaces .. well .. I just want to make 100% sure :)
13:44<+glx>TrueBrain: so if it's down 15min later than yesterday it's 'our' fault :)
13:44<FauxFaux>Uh.. I thought it was FEAR, maybe not. One of those Modern Shooty Games.
13:44<TrueBrain>glx: exactly :)
13:44<|Japa|>TrueBrain, too true
13:44<TrueBrain>and than I blame Rubidium for updating the Windows VM ;) :p
13:45<TrueBrain>|Japa|: but you are right, there aren't many
13:45<|Japa|>my knowledge of games onnly goes as far as the stuff borrowed from friends, or downloads that are under 20mb
13:45<TrueBrain>today a professor told me that 64bit wasn't kicking in really, because most OSes didn't support it correctly .. then I realised, it is only Windows who doesn't do it properly :p
13:46<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: and OSX?
13:46<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I know nothing of OSX :p
13:46<+glx>well windows does it (if you buy the right version)
13:46<TrueBrain>but I guess you might be right
13:46<FauxFaux>I can't believe they're not dropping x32 for seven. :(
13:46<TrueBrain>glx: yeah .. exactly the problem :)
13:46<TrueBrain>I wanted to get 64bit Vista with my new computer
13:46<TrueBrain>I couldn't! I had to pay extra! :s
13:46<|Japa|>well, for me D2 works in 7x86, but not 7x64
13:47-!-TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<FauxFaux>32-bit emulation and 64-bit support are entirely different things. :p
13:49<+glx>I can run 64bits app on my 32bits windows XP :)
13:49<|Japa|>the question remains, does OTTD significantly take advantage of x64?
13:49<TrueBrain>glx: in a VM, I hope? :p
13:49<+glx>yes in a VM :)
13:50<|Japa|>or would you need a hugeass map for that?
13:50<TrueBrain>|Japa|: depends no your definition of 'significant'
13:50<+glx>probably faster 64bits operations
13:51<+glx>(like money handling)
13:51<+glx>but I think that's all :)
13:51<|Japa|>does OTTD use cideo hardware at all?
13:51<SmatZ>OTTD is slower on my amd64 when compiled as 64bit than when compiled as 32bit
13:51<|Japa|>video, that is
13:51<+glx>no, GPU has no effect
13:51<TrueBrain>SmatZ: lol ;)
13:52<TrueBrain>|Japa|: video memory is not used, so I guess that is a no ;)
13:52<SmatZ>|Japa|: when you run as dedicated, then not
13:52<SmatZ>TrueBrain: it's used as a framebuffer (indirectly) - but I think directly with Allegro driver ;)
13:53<+glx>maybe with SDL too
13:53<SmatZ>yeah :)
13:53<TrueBrain>SmatZ: true true
13:53<|Japa|>so a gbetter card would not improve 32bpp performance then
13:53<TrueBrain>SmatZ: so I should have said: the video memory is not used to store sprites :p
13:53<TrueBrain>haha, it is not a 3d game my friend :)
13:54<SmatZ>there is a OpenGL blitter somewhere :)
13:55<TrueBrain>5 minutes till 2000 ...
13:55<+glx>and? it will start at 2015
13:55<TrueBrain>glx: lets hope not :)
13:56<+glx>CF will
13:56<+glx>else you failed to delay it ;)
13:56-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:56<@Belugas>SmatZ, look under petern's desk, you'll find it ^_^
13:56<|Japa|>videocards also acellerate 2d rendering
13:56<TrueBrain>glx: yeah .. but I meant something else ;)
13:56<@petern>who what?
13:56<@petern>oh, opengl blitter
13:56<@petern>yes, but it's rubbish
13:56<TrueBrain>|Japa|: accelerate is not really the word :p
13:56<@Belugas>good for 2d render, |Japa|. we do not render anythung
13:56<@Belugas>nor surface nor nothing
13:57<@Belugas>simlpe sprites
13:57*|Japa| grumbles
13:57<TrueBrain>|Japa|: but one might consider using the video memory, for quicker drawing ... just .. OpenTTD's method of company-colours fucks that up a tiny bit ;)
13:57<+glx>Belugas: we "render" sprites on the screen ;)
13:57<@petern>on what system is graphics the bottleneck anyway?
13:58<|Japa|>when using 32bbp, it seems to be
13:58<TrueBrain>petern: I doubt one could find one :)
13:58<|Japa|>on windows, anyway
13:58<@Belugas>true, glx, but i think it is not exactly like generating a picture out of something
13:58<+glx>|Japa|: then don't use 32bpp-anim
13:59<+glx>palette animation on 32bpp is not the best thing to do ;)
13:59<@petern>it works for sdl...
13:59<TrueBrain>those 2 were never meant to work together, no :p
13:59<TrueBrain>hehe :)
13:59<@petern>slightly differently mind you :)
13:59<|Japa|>I'lll jjust stick to 8bit for now
13:59<@petern>yeah, compile for 6502 :D
13:59<+glx>you can use 32bpp-optimized
13:59<|Japa|>at least untill there's a cmplete 32bit set
14:00<TrueBrain>|Japa|: without 32bpp replacement graphics, using 32bpp is useless anyway
14:00<|Japa|>some of the gfx are there, but not most
14:01<+glx>most are for extra zoom (and they are not compatible with clean openttd)
14:01<@Belugas>mmh... 32bpp... there is someone who has not yet answered my PM... nor did he read it...
14:01<TrueBrain>poor Belugas :)
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14:02<|Japa|>I'd go for an 8bb extra zoom, personally
14:03<|Japa|>it's wonderfull on a big screen that a little far away
14:03<TrueBrain>that is very ugly :)
14:03<@petern>i'd got for what Belugas goes for :D
14:03<Wolf01> bridge foundations and canal weirdness
14:04<@petern>Wolf01: already fixed a long time ago
14:04<Wolf01>how much long?
14:04<TrueBrain>20:04, still perfectly fine connection ...
14:04<@petern>that scenario has been *years* in the making
14:04<@petern>the guy could go over it and just dynamite those bits. they'll return to normal.
14:05<Wolf01>ah ok
14:05<@Belugas>you do petern? damned... going to cancel my request than
14:05<Wolf01>he will be happy :D
14:05<@Belugas>CAN I HAVE IT TOO????
14:05<@petern>Belugas, wha?
14:05<@Belugas>[14:04] <@petern> i'd got for what Belugas goes for :D
14:05<@petern>no, i mean go, not got
14:05<@Belugas>i see
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14:09<TrueBrain>k ... going to start the nightly in 50 seconds .. I hate waiting :)
14:09-!-Fuco [] has joined #openttd
14:10<TrueBrain>VMs are booting ...
14:10-!-ctibor [~ctibor@] has joined #openttd
14:10<TrueBrain>tick tack tick tack ..
14:11-!-George3 [~George@] has joined #openttd
14:13<TrueBrain>3 minutes in ... besides a very high load and 3 cores going crazy, nothing weird going on ...
14:14<frosch123>TrueBrain: mwhahaha
14:14<Noldo>which weird are you hoping for?
14:14<TrueBrain>lost connection
14:14<TrueBrain>Noldo: exactly that was is happening :p
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14:17*petern draws pixels in
14:17<TB>I am glad I could reproduce the problem :p
14:17<TB>just said it takes 20 minutes before the system recovers :)
14:17<TB>said = sad
14:18<Noldo>woot what where?
14:18<Yexo>Noldo: try :p
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14:21<TB>how can VirtualBox cause the eth link to go down ...
14:21<TB>that is really weird ..
14:22<frosch123>has it access to it?
14:22<TB>in theory, I guess
14:22<TB>it has its own kernel module
14:22<TB>it is just that 'dmesg' shows that the tg3 driver of eth0 detected the fysical link went down
14:22<frosch123>I mean the setting for that
14:22<TB>which I didn't know software could cause :p
14:22-!-DorpsGek [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23<Noldo>TB: can the other end freak out for some reason?
14:23-!-TrueBrain [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23<TB>more strange maybe that the first few VM boots go okay ..
14:23<TB>hmm ..
14:23<TB>maybe the switch drops our connection if we bind some kind of IP on the interface
14:23<TB>or try to send something out of it ..
14:27<TB>this will be finding a needle in a haystack
14:29<TB>k, out watching "Wie is de mol" .. bakc in an hour
14:29<TB>the server should be back in about 10 minutes or so
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14:50<planetmaker>welcome back, DorpsGek :D
14:52<dihedral>Sacro, that does not get you ops back!
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>you want to tell us something with that, Sacro?
14:53<dihedral>hey - reminds me of my cousin
14:53<SmatZ>dihedral: he/she changed sex?
14:53<dihedral>SmatZ, is in the process of
14:53<dihedral>pretty sad sod if you ask me
14:54<SmatZ>I didn't expect you actually say "yes"!
14:54<Sacro>dihedral: hehe :)
14:54*Sacro wants ops :(#
14:54<SmatZ>Sacro: he/she's nice :)
14:54<dihedral>SmatZ, well, swallowed some hormone pills (made in china) hehe - stupid kid
14:54<SmatZ>hmm you date a girl, then you find out she was born as a boy... do you feel gay then?
14:55<dihedral>and had a facial done in Holland
14:55<SmatZ>dihedral: intentionaly?
14:55<dihedral>yeah, he would not get those made in the uk because the doc refused :-D
14:55<SmatZ>dihedral: how many people change sex? I thought it happens rarely (like < 10 people / world / year)
14:55<dihedral>SmatZ, how should i know?
14:56<dihedral>it's more than enough to have a cousin doing that rubbish
14:56<dihedral>he's got a PhD too, so he's not like some real idiot
14:57<SmatZ>well if he was gay... then maybe this will make his life happier
14:57<dihedral>[20:55] <SmatZ> hmm you date a girl, then you find out she was born as a boy... do you feel gay then? <- you tell by the adams apple
14:59<@Belugas>it's the soul that counts, not the body
14:59<@Belugas>whatever is dangling or not :)
15:00<dihedral>my soul counts on me keeping this body :-P
15:01<@petern>so is your cousin mtf or ftm?
15:01<@petern>and you call her him?
15:01<dihedral>with some bits of f now and some bits of m :-D
15:02<dihedral>i have not seen him for like a few years
15:02<dihedral>i dont even know what name he goes by, something along the lines of melissa or melinda
15:02<@petern>i've never see her
15:02<dihedral>nono - no her
15:02<dihedral>i know my cousin as a guy :-P
15:02<@petern>you seem to be missing the point some what
15:03<dihedral>it's 50/50 anyway
15:03<dihedral>so technically speaking 50% correct and 50% wrong, whatever you chose :-P
15:03<@petern>one would presume, being ftm, they would refer to themself as she
15:04<@petern>er, mtf :p
15:04<dihedral>you got me confuddled there
15:05<dihedral>he's been running around dressed like a girl for a few years
15:05<@petern>well yes, she would, that's what girls do
15:05<dihedral>gnah - i pitty the fool :-P
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15:07<dihedral>look at that - my apple crumble decided to come out of the oven
15:08<dihedral>how lovely
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15:11<@petern>zomg, ai with trams
15:11<dihedral>"name a yellow fruit" .... "orange" <- LOL
15:14<@petern>bah, why can't image editors leave png text along? :)
15:15<@petern>i mean, :(
15:15<dihedral>along or alone?
15:16<dihedral>"name a type of bean" - "lesbian"
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15:21<@petern>i mean, alone
15:21<@petern>lesbian seagull?
15:24-!-TB [~truelight@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:24<Andel>not for me thanks
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15:34<TrueBrain>still no cargodest sync .. too bad :)
15:36<TrueBrain>who has something to compile for me?
15:36<TrueBrain>I want to know if my fix fixes the problem :p
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>make a sync yourself :p
15:37*|Japa| deeply considers it
15:38<Wolf01>TrueBrain, I have sloped stations if you want
15:38<TrueBrain>I don't :p
15:38<TrueBrain>I was more thinking in the lines of something on either OpenTTD hg, git or svn
15:39<TrueBrain>lets compile petern's railtypes :p
15:40<TrueBrain>expect downtime ..
15:42<Wolf01>wait until I download the nightly
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15:42<Wolf01>ok, you can blow up what you want, I have my nightly to play with now ;)
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15:46<TrueBrain>darn ...
15:47<TrueBrain>lucky enough the compile failed ... lol :)
15:48<TrueBrain>hg and '3rdparty' fails :p
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15:51<Yexo> <- why does the table fail in the last 2 rows?
15:52<Yexo>sorry, ignore that ^^
15:52<Yexo>it was a problem with my browser font size, making one line not show up
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15:55<frosch123>bye dorpsgek
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15:58<TrueBrain>I am a bit out of ideas what the problem might be
15:59<TrueBrain>maybe I should run a long tcpdump, see what the VMs try to do on the network or something ..
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>Question: how difficult would it be to replace the current "Waypoint" concept by stations that get automatically assigned "go via" orders?
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16:03<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you should rather think about distant-join waypoints
16:04<@petern>problem with using stations as waypoints is what happens when you mix them?
16:04<planetmaker>frosch123: might it then not be an idea to define a base class and make stations and waypoints both derivatives of that?
16:04<Yexo>frosch123: that doesn't make sense as long as you can't join them at all
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>petern: the whole station gets a flag "treat this station as waypoint"
16:05<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: and next step is to mark docks as buoy
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>no matter which graphics it actually uses
16:05<frosch123>and then name it ttdp
16:06<frosch123>and then make depots a subclass of stations, so you can add orders to multiple equally ranked depots
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>the only difference would be a) the default order when using "go to station", and b) the sign not showing up when waypoint signs are disabled
16:06<@petern>actually there's more
16:07<@petern>trains can stop at via station orders and turn around
16:07<@petern>they can't at waypoints
16:07<Yexo>petern: can they if the station is a roro station? (ie not terminus)
16:07<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: waypoints, depots and buoys work quite similiar, and joining would make sense for all of them. ok, buoys currently not
16:08<@petern>Yexo: if the signals allow it...
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>petern: i have never seen a train with a "go via" order reverse
16:08<frosch123>also multiple docks per stations come to mind
16:09<@petern>i have, i'm sure.
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>how can a train reverse when it does not stop?
16:10<@petern>it can stop
16:10<planetmaker>hehe... Train1: go via outer-sea-bouy #2 to grandcentral ;)
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>how can a train check if it wants to reverse at a station before having stopped at a station?
16:10<@petern>feh, i dunno :p
16:10<planetmaker>I've never tested what happens, if a train goes via a terminus station
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16:11<Yexo> <- train has "go via north" orders, but it didn't stop there to reverso to go to heights
16:11<thingwath>Řada 470 001 nehoda Praha Masarykovo n.jpg <- this? :)
16:12<@petern>url fail
16:12<thingwath>sort of
16:12<Yexo>nice thingwath :)
16:12<thingwath>konqueror doesn't think it's necessary to replace ' ' with url escapes...
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16:14<SmoovTruck>in one of the last few nightlies, I noticed the graphics changed some on the opening screen... and a few buildings and rolling stock graphics, are just black boxes instead... am I missing a new file or something?
16:14<Yexo>SmoovTruck: you've downloaded opengfx
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>SmoovTruck: you downloaded opengfx
16:15<SmoovTruck>I take it, that isn't complete yet?
16:15<frosch123>SmoovTruck: that's the penalty for downloading everything from bananas
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>thingwath: why do they not have buffer stops there?
16:15<SmoovTruck>just trying to be current with the auto-updater :P
16:15<Yexo>SmoovTruck: this has nothing to do with the auto-updater
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>SmoovTruck: yes, it is not complete. you can disable opengfx in the config file
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16:16<SmoovTruck>no need to disable it... I can live with the boxes... just wanted to make sure it was something expected at this point
16:16<thingwath>Eddi|zuHause: Should they?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>thingwath: at the end of a line? yes, i think they should.
16:17<SmoovTruck>replace "auto-updater" with "check online content" menu...
16:17<SmoovTruck>anyways, no problem... it is known, no need to dink around about it anymore. :)
16:18<@petern>that was scary
16:19<@petern>i misread that as 'no need to drink any more' :o
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16:19<planetmaker>hoho :)
16:19<SmoovTruck>well, it could have been possible I was seeing it cuz I wasn't drunk enuf... I just never had OpenTTD need that particular solution before. :D
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16:21<thingwath>Eddi|zuHause: if I only knew, maybe just nobody cares :)
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16:32*petern CODYs
16:33<@petern>damn, the cymbals on this mp3 suck :(
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16:39<Wolf01>I red cannibals -.-
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16:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15362 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Change: make a string name more consistent.
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17:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15363 /trunk/src/lang/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2600]: inconsistency w.r.t. On/Off text for settings.
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17:14<@Rubidium>petern: did I miss anything important in ?
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>i smell something big coming
17:15<@Rubidium>nah, I just want to be prepared when rortom comes gloating 'bout ror
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>why is "more engines" separate from "more everything else"?
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17:18<planetmaker>Rubidium: what about different road layouts for towns?
17:19<@Rubidium>was already possible
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17:21<@petern>how do i dump back to the intro screen?
17:22<@Rubidium>dump back?
17:22<@petern>i want to reinit the intro screen
17:23<@Rubidium>LoadIntroGame() ?
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17:24<@petern>not in openttd.cpp
17:25<@petern>'s what i thought :o
17:25<@petern>but i'm getting grfconfig problems
17:25<lanaiya>Hi, is there a option that industies don't shut down??
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>- Feature: Show what cargos a station could be supplied with (r12596) <-- was it ever changed that this info is also shown in the station window, not only when building a station?
17:26<lanaiya>:/ hmm that suxx i'm in jear 2040 and nearly all industries are closed
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can build some manually
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17:27<lanaiya>jeah thats pretty expensive ^^
17:28<Yexo>then you should've provided better service so they don't close down
17:29<lanaiya>huh? they close down anyway even if they are at 80% capacity
17:29<lanaiya>feels kinda random
17:31<planetmaker>lanaiya: they usually don't. except oil wells. Or if you use some newgrf which do that (dunno which)
17:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15364 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Update: the man page
17:38<SmatZ>petern: are you woking on the ability to switch base graphics set in-game?
17:39<@petern>while the program is running
17:39<@petern>not actually in a game
17:39<@petern>cos that would mess things up
17:39<SmatZ>good :)
17:39<@petern>but apparently it messes up anyway :/
17:40<SmatZ>restart doesn't matter... but people downloading opengfx and then complaining about black boxes are really not wanted
17:42<@petern>ah, found it :/
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>can't there just be a confirmation box "this setting only takes effect after restarting"?
17:45<@petern>hmm, still doesn't work :/
17:49<@petern>ah, found it
17:49<@petern>no function calling, just set _switch_mode
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17:53<@petern>this is the problem of C|S
17:54<@petern>there, not this
17:58<lanaiya>any idea how drawing trees on a tile could switched off. i looked in the code and got no easy idea to do that without changing something in all tree classes.
17:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15365 /trunk/src/core/string_compare_type.hpp: -Fix (r15324): svn properties were lost in 'svn move'
17:59<SmatZ>lanaiya: Ctrl+X - make trees invisible? (for trunk)
17:59<SmatZ>in 0.6.3 there is a patch option...
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18:00<lanaiya>hmm ok then i have to search for that.
18:00*SmatZ wonders what "all tree classes" might be
18:02<SmatZ>lanaiya: are you sure you are talking in the correct channel?
18:02<lanaiya>why? what other channel is there?
18:02<lanaiya>"You can use the channel for questions, problems, development or general discussion"
18:07<@petern>i suppose if _ini_graphics_set was saved then specifying -I would be 'permanent'...
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18:07<lanaiya>Or what do you mean Smatz
18:07<SmatZ>lanaiya: what's wrong about that "Ctrl+X" solution?
18:07<@Rubidium>petern: yup
18:09<lanaiya>well i dont look for an option to shut them off all the time. i build in a new zoom lvl in the normal vieport. and its kinda laggy. so i want to shut off all non essentials aka all subpixel items including trees for that zoom lvl
18:09<@Rubidium>it has SLF_CONFIG_NO set, so the setting is never actually stored to the config file
18:10<@Rubidium>which makes saving it into the config kinda tricky
18:10<@petern>i thought you were going to add something i didn't know then :p
18:10<@petern>that is of course what i was talking about
18:11<SmatZ>lanaiya: DrawTile_Trees - have a look at parts that aren't executed when trees are invisible
18:11<@Rubidium>isn't at 1/16+ zoom everything subpixel except the tiles graphics?
18:12<@petern>oh, zoom out, heh
18:12<SmatZ>trees, vehicles...
18:12<SmatZ> almost unusableble....
18:13<@petern>zoom-in :D
18:13<@petern>did you ever get that working satisfactorily?
18:13<SmatZ>:) it was actually working without artifacts... but it was a hack in 8bpp-optimised blitter
18:14<lanaiya>jeah thats kinda nice ^^
18:14<@petern>i want zoom in to 2x
18:14<@petern>just like that
18:14<@petern>no extra 'high res' graphics :p
18:17<lanaiya>well thats more elegant then my solution but a bit a bit 2 many zoom steps for my taste ;)
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19:07<@Belugas>pom te pooooom
19:07<@Belugas>jeah? i guess i shuld read jeez
19:07<@Belugas>or someting
19:10<@Belugas>or maybe yeah
19:20<planetmaker>good night folks
19:22<Yexo>good night planetmaker
19:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15366 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_gui.cpp ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp ai_scanner.cpp): -Add [NoAI]: Add AddLabels() where you can define labels for the values of the settings in info.nut
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19:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15367 /trunk/src/sortlist_type.h: -Add: framework for filtering GUILists (Roujin)
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21:39<@Belugas>moinchi moinchi moinchi
21:39*Belugas is tired
21:39<@Belugas>but can't get his eyes out of the screen
21:39<@Belugas>andfingers out of the keyboard
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22:05<SpComb> <-- is that Objective-C code?
22:11<@Belugas>nope, that's a url
22:11<+glx>.m files are objectiv-C
22:11<+glx>(or should be)
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22:30<sulik>Hi guys
22:30<sulik>I just installed OpenTTD 0.6.3 and started playing but after some time i noticed that all the computer (enemy) companies are only worth of $2 (after years & years)... all of them build around 2 trains, 4 vechiles, 1 plain or so on...
22:30<sulik>any ideas how to fix this?
22:31<+glx>yes use nightlies (AI have been replaced)
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22:31<DephNet[Paul]>the "standard" AI is a little ... um ... crap
22:32<sulik>oh okay..
22:34<SpComb>does OpenTTD have regression tests for the AI? :)
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22:38<+glx>SpComb: make regression
22:38<+glx>but not all functions are tested
22:39<Yexo>that's a regression test for openttd / the noai framework, not for an ai
22:39<SpComb>mostly wondering what would happen if some commit accidentially lobotomized the default AI, how long would it take to notice? :P
22:40<Yexo>SpComb: there is no default AI anymore
22:40<SpComb>quite, quite
22:40<sulik>hmm.. just installed the nightlies .. and fastfowarding the game
22:40<sulik>no enemies.. :S but i chose the hard level
22:40<Yexo>sulik: did you already download an AI?
22:41<sulik>i have to download AI seperatly?
22:41<Yexo>yes, in the main menu, try "Check online content"
22:44<sulik>hmm.. downloaded all the AI's .. under ai settings.. put 6 enemies .. using random ai settings.. started a new game.. fast fowarding.. still nothing :S ?
22:45<+glx>press '²' to open the console and type "start_ai" if you want an AI immediatly
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22:55<Yexo>sulik: did you succeed yet?
22:57-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:58<sulik>seems, yes :)
22:59<De_Ghosty>WHEN SIGNAL IN TUNNELS?!?!
22:59<sulik>started 7 enemies.. fast fowarding again... a lot of them got the company value only at $2 again.. some of them got $150,000 aswell.. strange all these using only vechiles :S
23:00<De_Ghosty>ai are dumb
23:00<Yexo>you're using difficulty level hard again? try it on easy, that might help
23:00<sulik>hmm how that helps tho?
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23:01<Yexo>sulik: on easy, companies (your company but also AI companies) can get more loan, vehicles breakdown less often, the map is flatter, there is less water, etc.
23:01<sulik>yes, 5 years passed and all of the AI's got only vechiles ... i remember in the past , when i was a child like 8 years ago or more hehe... the ai's weren't that dumb.. at least they built planes, railroads etc..
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23:02<Yexo>that depends on the AI you use
23:02<DephNet[Paul]>sulik, try Pathzilla for planes and buses
23:02<Yexo>pathzilla doesn't build planes
23:02<Yexo>paxlink does however
23:03<Yexo>nocab also builds planes and ships
23:03<sulik>hmm.. just reading about the AI descriptions in the game..
23:03<Yexo>and admiralai also builds planes but also trains
23:03<sulik>which AI is the hardest & has got all type of transport
23:03<Yexo>there is no ai that uses all kind of transport
23:03<sulik>hmm.. okay, but why
23:04<Yexo>admiralai and nocab come closest (admiralai lacks ships and nocab lacks trains/trams)
23:04<DephNet[Paul]>Yexo, doesnt it? my mistake, i know ive downloaded Pathzilla and Paxlink
23:04<Yexo>sulik: because it's a lot of work to write an AI that uses 1 type of transport, and even more to write one that uses several types
23:05<sulik>what about medieval ai ?
23:06<Yexo>dunno, try it and see for yourself
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23:25<De_Ghosty>how do i get the ai to start building?
23:25-!-svip [] has joined #openttd
23:25<sulik>start_ai in console
23:25<De_Ghosty>i did
23:25<De_Ghosty>nothing happens
23:25<De_Ghosty>they jsut have a company with nothing
23:25<Yexo>what does the ai debug panel show?
23:26<Yexo>you can find it under the red question mark
23:26<De_Ghosty>how iget that?
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23:33<De_Ghosty>nothing there
23:33<De_Ghosty>dummy ai v1
23:33<De_Ghosty>how do i laod one?
23:34<Yexo>you need to download an AI first
23:34<De_Ghosty>can i load em in middle of game?
23:34<Yexo>in the main menu, try "Check online content"
23:34<Yexo>De_Ghosty: sure
23:39<De_Ghosty>is ai threaded?
23:39<De_Ghosty>grr keeps crashing
23:40<Yexo>the AIs are not threaded
23:40<Yexo>what keeps crashing? The AIs or openttd?
23:42<De_Ghosty>ai crashed ottd
23:43<Yexo>what AI did you use?
23:43<De_Ghosty>all of em
23:43<Yexo>anything special that causes it to crash? Or just randomly after starting some AIs?
23:43<De_Ghosty>like 1 or 2 month
23:43<De_Ghosty>everything dies
23:44<Yexo>can you open a bugreport at with crash.dmp, crash.log and crash.sav?
23:45<Yexo>AIs shouldn't be able to crash openttd, and I can't reproduce the crash here
23:45<De_Ghosty>i have lik 8 of em
23:45<Yexo>I have more :p
23:45<De_Ghosty>fuck have to login...
23:45<De_Ghosty>i hate.....
23:45<De_Ghosty>ai should really be their own threads
23:46<De_Ghosty>it's really slow
23:46<Yexo>why should they? They run in a vm
23:46<Yexo>giving them their own threads is _very_ hard
23:46<De_Ghosty>window can't seperate and proccess em
23:46<De_Ghosty>ai should interact like a user
23:47<Yexo>they do :)
23:47<De_Ghosty>then why is everything sitting on 1 core?
23:47<Yexo>but that means they can only run in between executing commands and updating the game state
23:47<Yexo>and everything is still one 1 core because everything depends on eachother
23:47<De_Ghosty>they should be racing on their own
23:48<Yexo>you can't have one thread building a rail line and another pathfinding
23:48<De_Ghosty>grab a frame from the game
23:48<De_Ghosty>process it
23:48<De_Ghosty>and then send it back
23:48<Yexo>so you propose to execute every frame once for every AI? That sounds like a lot of duplicate processing
23:49<De_Ghosty>what happens when i brankrupts in single player?
23:49<Yexo>you can't bankrupt in singleplayer
23:49<Yexo>AIs can though
23:49<De_Ghosty>i mean i have 3 core just idle
23:49<De_Ghosty>they have more then enough powas to duplicate
23:49<Yexo>and because of how openttd works that'll stay the same
23:50<Yexo>De_Ghosty: you don't get the point, duplicating the work doesn't make openttd faster
23:50<De_Ghosty>yes it does
23:50<De_Ghosty>so the ai doesn't have to be process between updates
23:50<De_Ghosty>on a single thread
23:51<Yexo>chances are that the time lost with synchronizing the threads loses the same amount of time you win by making the ai run in seperate threads
23:51<De_Ghosty>or instance
23:51<Yexo>if it's too slow for your liking, you can decrease the #opcdes before AI is suspended in the advanced settings window
23:52<De_Ghosty>is there a pub account i can use
23:52<De_Ghosty>i don't want to register
23:52<De_Ghosty>forget it
23:52<Yexo>I've a game running for 15 years with 10 AIs without a crash now
23:53<Yexo>De_Ghosty: do you have another place you can upload the required files (crash.dmp/log/sav)?
23:56<De_Ghosty>paste bin?
23:56<De_Ghosty>boxnet for files
23:57<Yexo>that's ok
23:57-!-ecke_ [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke_]
23:57<De_Ghosty>1 sec
---Logclosed Fri Feb 06 00:00:11 2009