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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-10

---Logopened Tue Feb 10 00:00:57 2009
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02:19<@petern:#openttd>professor
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02:21<@petern:#openttd>who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 celebrations?
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03:07<@Rubidium:#openttd>there's not much special about that moment here
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03:13<@petern:#openttd>who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 GMT celebrations?
03:13<@petern:#openttd>:o
03:18<Forked:#openttd>1234567890?
03:22<dihedral:#openttd>morning
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03:22<Brianetta:#openttd>I celebrated 12:34:56 7/8/90
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03:22<Brianetta:#openttd>Not much will top that
03:22<Brianetta:#openttd>I was in north Wales at the time, visiting my mum's parents
03:23<dihedral:#openttd>so basically your grandparents?
03:23<Brianetta:#openttd>yes; I was making it more specific
03:24<Brianetta:#openttd>ruling out my extremely rich grandparents
03:24<dihedral:#openttd>just checking :-P
03:24<Brianetta:#openttd>I only have one surviving grandparent now )-:
03:25<Brianetta:#openttd>She's extremely rich
03:26<dihedral:#openttd>i only ever new my grandparents from my mothers side
03:26<dihedral:#openttd>they live in Richmond :-P
03:26<dihedral:#openttd>lovely place
03:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i don't know the grandparents from my father's side. they died before i was born
03:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>actually, that is not entirely true, my grandfather died before that, my grandmother afterwards
03:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i was quite young back then
03:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i do have faint memories of a flat with an oven (no central heating)
03:38<dihedral:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=763729#p763729 <- oh my word!
03:39<dihedral:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, same here - appart from the faint memories :-P
03:39<dihedral:#openttd>that kid from the post has like 45122 lines in his single (real) source file
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03:42<el_en:#openttd>i have faint memory of seeing my great-grandmother alive.
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03:56<dihedral:#openttd>odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very #
03:57*dihedral:#openttd grins
03:57-!-Perfk [~Perfk@0x55509325.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
03:57<Perfk:#openttd>Morning all. can anyone tell me what the difference between the Nightly build, and the openTTD build?
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04:00<Roest:#openttd>morning
04:01<dihedral:#openttd>morning Roest
04:01<dihedral:#openttd>Perfk, may i give you a hint?
04:02<dihedral:#openttd>try comparing release dates of the nightly builds and the sable builds
04:02<Roest:#openttd>i want a hint as well
04:02<dihedral:#openttd>and while looking at the _nightly_ builds, contemplate why they could possibly be called _nightlies_
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04:02<dihedral:#openttd>Roest, it's Layer 8
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04:15<smallfly:#openttd>[09:53] <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very # <-- ;-)
04:16<@petern:#openttd>what is an "openttd build"?
04:16<smallfly:#openttd>what is openttd?
04:17<@petern:#openttd>who knows
04:18<@Rubidium:#openttd>the wiki?
04:19<dihedral:#openttd>petern, i believe Perfk means a stable build
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04:19<@petern:#openttd>dihedral, never assume ;)
04:21*Rubidium:#openttd wonders why dihedral didn't send Perfk to the wiki as it is a frequently asked question
04:21<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, i already sent him in here, because i wanted to stop him from asking in my games channel
04:23<@petern:#openttd>hmm, why didn't we ever release 0.6.4...
04:23<Perfk:#openttd>wee. iam popular :)
04:24<@petern:#openttd>@openttd commit 14455
04:24<@DorpsGek:#openttd>petern: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
04:24<@petern:#openttd>:o
04:25<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: because nobody could be arsed to figure out what to backport, to actually backport and go through the whole release thingy?
04:26<@petern:#openttd>hehe
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04:27<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, just release 0.6.3 as 0.6.4 and say it's a bug fix release :-D
04:27<Forked:#openttd>What's new:
04:27<Forked:#openttd>* Checking if our users actually read this list
04:27<dihedral:#openttd>hihi
04:27<dihedral:#openttd>they would :-S
04:28<@petern:#openttd>dihedral: there is one bug fix
04:28<dihedral:#openttd>well, that's at least not a lie then
04:28<dihedral:#openttd>is the udp fix in there?
04:28<dihedral:#openttd>that could be backported (is fairly straight forward :-P)
04:31<@Rubidium:#openttd>what udp fix?
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>the one where the game does not send client names in the udp packets anymore
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>packet version 5
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>instead of 4
04:34<@Rubidium:#openttd>under what rock have you been living?
04:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>or is there another issue you haven't made us aware of?
04:35<planetmaker:#openttd>morning
04:36<@petern:#openttd>FS#mentioned-once-in-some-IRC-channel-when-nobody-was-around
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/branches/0.6/src/network/network_udp.cpp#L93
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp#L110
04:39<dihedral:#openttd>wait...
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>has that already been released?
04:40<@Rubidium:#openttd>depends on what already means
04:40<dihedral:#openttd>in any stable release
04:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>yeah, but only since uhm... like 0.6.2
04:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>which is basically the (only) reason why debian lenny has 0.6.2 instead of 0.6.1
04:42<@Rubidium:#openttd>apparantly the bugfixes in 0.6.3 weren't crash fixes
04:43<dihedral:#openttd>lol
04:43<dihedral:#openttd>i am behind
04:43<@Rubidium:#openttd>hmm... actually there are crash fixes
04:43<@Rubidium:#openttd>in 0.6.3
04:43<@petern:#openttd>how's our debian repo going?
04:44<@Rubidium:#openttd>ah well... debian-release denied blathijs' request
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04:44<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: like mempools
04:44<@petern:#openttd>oh
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04:44<@petern:#openttd>do mempools still need to be rewritten?
04:45<@petern:#openttd>they've already had been rewritten somewhat since the original...
04:47<@Rubidium:#openttd>I don't quite remember what the issues with the original were that should get fixed by the new one and what's already fixed in the current one
04:48<@petern:#openttd>i think the main thing wanted was sparse pools, but i don't know why anymore
04:48<@petern:#openttd>doesn't seem necessary
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04:50<@petern:#openttd>i think since the C++-ization it is no longer needed
04:51<@petern:#openttd>i love bjarni's first comment... when did NPF ever use pools...
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05:10<blathijs:#openttd>petern: The main advantage of my rewrite was that things are explicitely freed when they are destroyed
05:11<blathijs:#openttd>petern: The original pools "freed" a station by settion its id to 0 (or something like that), and then allocating a station looped all stations until it found one that has id 0
05:12<blathijs:#openttd>petern: My rewrite used a chain of free stations so allocation was O(1) instead of O(n)
05:13<blathijs:#openttd>petern: It also separated the allocation of stations and the allocation of station indexes
05:13<blathijs:#openttd>petern: Meaning you can use a pool for other things than indexed items (like buckets in a hashmap). This was originally the motivation behind rewriting the pools, since NPF spent quite some time free'ing and malloc'ing
05:15<@petern:#openttd>so basically an internal memory allocator
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05:29<blathijs:#openttd>petern: Yeah, because free and malloc need to work for any size allocation, they are not as efficient as they can be for allocating lots of (small) same sized blocks
05:30<dihedral:#openttd>blathijs, that sounds pretty awesome
05:30<@petern:#openttd>hmm, well, one improvement i can think of for pools is variable size items, so...
05:31<@petern:#openttd>the SpriteGroup pool is quite wasteful in some cases
05:32<blathijs:#openttd>petern: If you really need variable sized items, you should probably just use malloc and free
05:32<blathijs:#openttd>petern: Unless you have a few fixed sizes, then pools might still be useful (but then just a few pools)
05:32<@petern:#openttd>these are pool items anyway
05:34<@petern:#openttd>the smallest item is 2 bytes
05:35<@petern:#openttd>the largest is 24 (or 32 on 64bit) bytes
05:36<@petern:#openttd>even then malloc is also used :)
05:37<@petern:#openttd>Rubidium: does using tinyenumt affect performance?
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05:49<@Rubidium:#openttd>petern: I reckon it might, although technically it should be the difference between int and byte in performance
05:49<@Rubidium:#openttd>where int is whatever the compiler thinks is the best
05:55<TinoDidriksen:#openttd>And where int is fastest. Using smaller types is rarely a speed gain.
05:57<@Rubidium:#openttd>using tinyenumt whereever you used byte shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not 100% sure about that; you need to look at the assembly differences
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07:36<Gekz:#openttd>manhugs
07:36<Gekz:#openttd>for the first man to demand one
07:37<@petern:#openttd>are yours like bearhugs?
07:37<Gekz:#openttd>... sure
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>except instead of claws
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>you get all sticky
07:38<dihedral:#openttd>Gekz is hairy :-P
07:38<dihedral:#openttd>fuzz-butt
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>I dont have fuzzbutt anymore
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>I plucked them all
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>one by one I did
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>then poured gratuitous amounts of alcohol
07:38<dihedral:#openttd>"not by the hair on my fuzzy butt butt"
07:38<Gekz:#openttd>onto the affected area for maximum effect
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07:49<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: smatz * r15439 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2626]: call Vehicle::LeaveStation() before reversing overlength loading train (station triggers were missed, PBS reservation could cause crash)
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08:11<planetmaker:#openttd>he... seems there are website issues again?
08:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>In/deed/.
08:12<PierreW:#openttd>it/died/
08:12<FauxFaux:#openttd>In/deed/.
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08:12<PierreW:#openttd>oh/noes/.
08:12<@petern:#openttd>what sort of issues?
08:13<SmatZ:#openttd>site is up again
08:13<FauxFaux:#openttd>Fixed now, was getting "connection refused" iirc.
08:13<Forked:#openttd>shut up
08:13<Forked:#openttd>:p
08:17-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
08:21<Zahl:#openttd>can i set the delay until chat messages disappear from screen?
08:22<FauxFaux:#openttd>No.
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08:23<Zahl:#openttd>hm ok *digs into source*
08:24<FauxFaux:#openttd>They're displaed for 10 days.
08:24<Zahl:#openttd>yeah
08:24<Zahl:#openttd>that kinda sucks if you made days last 20 times longer :P
08:24<FauxFaux:#openttd>Ah. :P I can't remember why I looked.
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08:34<mauricio13:#openttd>oi
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08:57*dihedral:#openttd estao principe sapo
08:57<dihedral:#openttd>:-P
08:58<Sacro:#openttd>english only
08:58*Chrill:#openttd håller med Sacro
08:58<Sacro:#openttd>what's with all the (incompatible encoding)
08:58<Sacro:#openttd>are you not using utf8?
08:59*dihedral:#openttd is
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09:00*Chrill:#openttd doesn't know
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09:02<Sacro:#openttd>Chrill: what irc client?
09:03<Chrill:#openttd>mIRC
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09:42<welshdragon:#openttd>Chrill: yes, mirc supports utf8
09:44<planetmaker:#openttd>are there somewhat recent systems which don't support UTF8?
09:45<@petern:#openttd>windows?
09:47<@Rubidium:#openttd>OSX?
09:48<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: I never had problems on any of my computers with it... at least somewhat recently. My old windows might have...
09:48<planetmaker:#openttd>My Mac did (and does again :) )
09:48<@Rubidium:#openttd>then why doesn OSX need iconv when we use UTF8 internally?
09:48<@Belugas:#openttd>sincere condoleances
09:48<dihedral:#openttd>Rubidium, osx supports utf8!!
09:49<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: I don't know iconv. But my text editors, browsers, mail progs, all handle utf8 nicely there. As does OpenTTD :)
09:50<planetmaker:#openttd>It needs only selecting the proper one afaik...
09:50<dihedral:#openttd>i have never had an issue like Sacro did with errors due to missing iconv
09:50<Sacro:#openttd>hmm
09:50*dihedral:#openttd pats Sacro on the head
09:50<Sacro:#openttd>i have to do --with-iconv=/usr/local
09:51<@petern:#openttd>dihedral misses the point :D
09:51<@petern:#openttd>iconv is needed because OSX *doesn't* support UTF8...
09:52<@petern:#openttd>it has its own special encoding for filesystem stuff.
09:52<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... well. iconv seems to be part of the standard installation then.
09:54<dihedral:#openttd>petern, iconv was mentioned, the only time i picked up on iconv in combination with openttd was when Sacro mentioned issues he was having
09:54<Sacro:#openttd>yup
09:54<planetmaker:#openttd>anycase I never worried about iconv...
09:54<@petern:#openttd>sacro has lots of issues
09:54<dihedral:#openttd>well, yeah
09:54<planetmaker:#openttd>:D
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10:53<planetmaker:#openttd>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/shortlog <-- is not really up to date
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10:54<Progman:#openttd>it isn't?
10:54<Roest:#openttd>only misses one commit tho
10:54<planetmaker:#openttd>no. vcs.openttd.org is more recent.
10:54<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah
10:55<@Belugas:#openttd>whooaaaa.... I see my name on that page o_O
10:55<@Belugas:#openttd>just.. why??
10:56<dihedral:#openttd>odd
10:56<dihedral:#openttd>very odd
10:56<planetmaker:#openttd>very much so :)
10:56<dihedral:#openttd>hello Belugas :-)
10:56<@Belugas:#openttd>mister dihedral jello
10:57<dihedral:#openttd>:-)
10:58<planetmaker:#openttd>g'evening from here, too :)
10:59<@Belugas:#openttd>mister planetmaker jello
11:00<dihedral:#openttd>sounds like indian support center :-P
11:00<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
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11:02<@Belugas:#openttd>oui efendi, oui
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11:51<@Belugas:#openttd>i'm pisitively and totally bored
11:51<@Belugas:#openttd>-i+o
11:52*planetmaker:#openttd ponders about what would excite Belugas
11:53<planetmaker:#openttd>Some nice realistic-looking eye candy objects maybe? :P
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11:57<Chrill:#openttd>Sacro still lost key to standard server Brianetta's?
11:57<@Belugas:#openttd>to get me out of that log-reading job i'm enroled, might be a good start
11:57<@Belugas:#openttd>planetmaker, of course, some gfx for some upcoming feature would be good too, indeed ;)
11:58<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe. Someone should kick SAC to actually *do* something instead of talking about what she all wants to do
11:59<@Belugas:#openttd>well.. up until support is provided, there is little she can really do :P
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12:01<planetmaker:#openttd>:P well. I thought there was the possibility at least in TTDP - but that may just be some person talking big about it ;)
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12:03*dihedral:#openttd can think of a person :-P
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12:05<@Belugas:#openttd>if you think Oskar, no he did not finished the feature. Lakie made it, I'm just not sure if it has been commited. I'm working toward our version currently
12:05<@Belugas:#openttd>little by little
12:05<dihedral:#openttd>:-)
12:05<planetmaker:#openttd>I did not think of Oscar at all :)
12:05<dihedral:#openttd>no - me neither
12:05<planetmaker:#openttd>rather a person more active in the forums :)
12:06<dihedral:#openttd>and i was rather thinking of a "person talking big about it"
12:06<dihedral:#openttd>:-P
12:06<planetmaker:#openttd>dihedral: that at the same time :)
12:08<frosch123:#openttd>you mean a special friend of belugas? :p
12:08<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... I don't know whether he's his special friend. He's a special "lover" of OTTD at least ;)
12:09<frosch123:#openttd>I think he is the second best friend of belugas after sirkoz
12:09<planetmaker:#openttd>:D
12:09<planetmaker:#openttd>kind of an accomplishment, eh? :)
12:10<@Belugas:#openttd>ho... you mean the one who is oftenly referenced by two letters? mostly used for specifying a computer essential component?
12:11<planetmaker:#openttd>I guess you hit dead on target :)
12:11<@Belugas:#openttd>Sirkoz... please... like... "I've got no clue of what i'm talking about but I make sure that what i'm saying sounds absolutely lovely"
12:11<Chrill:#openttd>Sacro Brianetta
12:11<Chrill:#openttd>Brianetta Sacro
12:12<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :)
12:12<@Belugas:#openttd>MB cold be right about newobjects in patch's trunk, i cannot confirm nor deny. But it should have been noted on wiki's the revision of the commit, and i do not see it
12:12<@Belugas:#openttd>MB said that where?
12:13<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... dunno exactly - fuzzy memory. I thought in one of SAC's threads...
12:13<planetmaker:#openttd>new objects and stuff
12:14*planetmaker:#openttd goes looking
12:15<planetmaker:#openttd>But I might have gotten it totally wrong. I played TTDP only ages ago in the 90s.
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12:25<planetmaker:#openttd>I fail to find that, Belugas...
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12:29<@Belugas:#openttd>therefor, it might have not been said at all;
12:29<planetmaker:#openttd>exactly. :)
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12:30<@petern:#openttd>people assuming again, i guess
12:32<Sacro:#openttd>yes Chrill ?
12:32<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah. Me :P
12:32<Chrill:#openttd>hi Sacro
12:32<Chrill:#openttd>server restart, is this a possibility?
12:32<Chrill:#openttd>it's hit 2050
12:32<Sacro:#openttd>errm...
12:32<Sacro:#openttd>I seem to be lacking in a public certificate, I think I'm locked out without it
12:33<Chrill:#openttd>:P
12:33<Sacro:#openttd>Yeah, I think I forgot to back it up
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12:39<@Belugas:#openttd>tss tss tsst
12:39<@Belugas:#openttd>bad boy
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12:46<Sacro:#openttd>Belugas: yes
12:50-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
12:50<Yexo:#openttd>hello
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12:55<@petern:#openttd>no u
12:56<Sacro:#openttd>me?
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13:14<Wolf01:#openttd>hello
13:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>ehlo
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13:19<SpComb:#openttd>how disruptive would it be if I were to starting operating a separate 'SpBot' nickname (irssi running on a different server) for logging purposes?
13:20<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Would it speak?
13:20<SpComb:#openttd>probably not apart from !logs
13:21<SpComb:#openttd>it would just be an irssi running /logs and a /trigger for !logs
13:21-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:22<@Belugas:#openttd>could you add "And remember to make a bookmark of this URL" to the logs command?
13:22<SpComb:#openttd>heh
13:23<SpComb:#openttd>maybe stick the URL into the topic instead
13:23<Sacro:#openttd>http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii161/sweetrescue/warning.gif
13:23<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Belugas: Nah, that can be Dorpy's /kick reason.
13:26-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:26<@petern:#openttd>not another irc logging system :/
13:27<SpComb:#openttd>a replacement for my current one
13:27<SpComb:#openttd>wasn't there some second one, with a URL in the ChanServ join-channel message?
13:29<SpComb:#openttd>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd <-- the current non-realtime development version
13:29<el_en:#openttd>SpComb: indeed, the !logs command should point to firefox and IE manuals about adding bookmarks/favorites.
13:30<Sacro:#openttd>what about other browsers?
13:30<SpComb:#openttd>that's more or less why I neglected to continue it for the past month or two
13:31<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Just go for the simple option. !logs points you out of the channel.
13:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there is a join message?
13:32<el_en:#openttd>nothing wrong with someone asking the url now and then, but when it's the same person every day, that's just unnecessary noise to the channel.
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13:33<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: No
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13:34<SpComb:#openttd>hmm, apparently not anymore
13:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>probably not since we went away from freenode :p
13:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that was like... 2 years ago?
13:34<SpComb:#openttd>it used to point to thegrebs
13:35<@petern:#openttd>the what?
13:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the site of mikegrb
13:35-!-Singaporebed [~notme@cm2.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>(who is now supposed to appear because of random highlight :p)
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13:39-!-Irssi: You are now talking in #openttd
13:39*mikegrb kisses everyone
13:39<mikegrb>http://thegrebs.com/irc/
13:39<frosch123>"ugly default font":)
13:40<mikegrb>it's never been on join or such
13:41<SpComb>frosch123: that's what it says in the PIL docs
13:41<SpComb>and it /is/ ugly
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13:41<@petern>ugly default font?
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13:42<SpComb>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last/20/png?image_font=default
13:42<@petern>urgh
13:45-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:45<Roest>urgh indeed
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>how does one get that?
13:46<SpComb>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last/20/png?image_font=ttf-liberation-mono <-- well, there are nicer fonts :)
13:46<Wolf01>stupid windows update
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>i have not had any problems with windows update in almost 2 years
13:47<@Belugas>two years already we are here...
13:47<@Belugas>wowo
13:47<@Belugas>time flies
13:47<Roest>that font is hardly any better
13:48*SpComb doesn't know his fonts very well
13:48<Wolf01>I have problems with windows update when it wants to reset my computer
13:48<Wolf01>especially when I say no and it does it when I'm dining
13:48<goodger_>Wolf01: just turn off automatic updates and run it properly
13:48<Wolf01>just did it
13:49<goodger_>good#
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>more like two and a half year
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>my logs start at 12. Aug 2006
13:49<Wolf01>I forgot about it because sunday I needed to restore the comp to factory
13:50-!-sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
13:50*Prof_Frink installs updates whenever the the little adept notifier tells him to
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>and apparently, on 23. Jun 2006 i "deinstalled" Windows ;)
13:51*goodger_ installs updates with a cron job
13:51<SpComb>yes | sudo apt-get break-everything
13:52-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<goodger_>or rather, security updates are automatically installed with a cron job; other updates are installed manually each day
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>i try manual updates when i get tired of certain bugs, or when i happen to be in YaST anyway
13:54<@petern>hmm, ion is, apparently, not installable on ubuntu :o
13:54-!-worldemar [~world@213.178.45.185] has joined #openttd
13:54<SpComb>petern: I'm running ion3 on ubuntu right now
13:55-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
13:55<@petern> ion3: Depends: liblua5.1-0 but it is not installable
13:55<goodger_>Eddi|zuHause: I didn't know anyone used suse nowadays
13:55-!-goodger_ is now known as goodger
13:55<Roest><-- uses suse
13:55<SpComb>petern: I also have the liblua5.1-0 package installed
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause>there is no specific (as in non-religious) reason to not use suse (for a generic desktop system)
13:56<@petern>no such package
13:56<Zahl>did the color of chatlines in ottd change from white to gray recently, or am i just stupid?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
13:56<Roest>eddi for many people that decission is kinda a religious issue
13:57<Zahl>Eddi|zuHause: the former or latter? :P
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes. :p
13:57<Zahl>awesome :-D
13:57<Zahl>i like conversations like that
13:57<planetmaker>yes?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>i do, too ;) annoys the people every single time :p
13:58<Zahl>so i guess i have to download the current nightly to find out
13:59<planetmaker>yes and yes it seem to have changed
13:59<Roest>can you play the nightly before dawn?
13:59<Zahl>hardly
13:59<Zahl>hm ok cause i think you can hardly read the chat now
14:00<smallfly>my friend dihedral also online?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there a patch for altered chat display length?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>how do you get the idea that anybody is your "friend"?
14:02<smallfly>was meant ironically
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm getting timeouts on the website
14:08<frosch123>then enjoy the remaining time with dorpsgek
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>DorpsGek has left the library.
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>DorpsGek has been saved.
14:09<Sacro>petern: the ion guy is a wanker
14:09<Sacro>and that's being polite
14:10<blathijs>hehe
14:10<blathijs>Sacro: He has an interesting personality :-)
14:10<Sacro>blathijs: he pissed off the ArchLinux guys
14:10<Sacro>so they said they'd never have his packages in the main repos again
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>what is "ion" anyway?
14:11<frosch123>a particle with an electical load
14:12-!-DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>so, like an electron?
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14:12<@petern>Sacro, heh
14:13<Sacro>wanker...
14:13<Sacro>he hates the "FLOSS herd"
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14:13-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>is that like a Floss 47?
14:13<frosch123>don't know, an electron might be an exception from the rule
14:14<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: No, more like the GNU/Hurd.
14:14<Prof_Frink>frosch123: No, your rule was wrong.
14:15<@petern>Sacro, so are you aware of a free replacement?
14:15<Sacro>petern: nope
14:15<Sacro>well
14:15<Sacro>
14:15<Sacro>Awesome · dwm · echinus · Ion · Wmii · Ratpoison · stumpwm · xmonad · Xerox Star · Windows 1.0 · GEM (2.0 and Later)
14:16<@petern>hm
14:17<Sacro>Windows 1.0 :D
14:17<@Darkvater>el_en: sir knight to you my dear peasant
14:19<Sacro>so when did Darkvater last commit?
14:19-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1-re1.dk.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity]
14:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15440 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/ai_abstractlist.cpp): -Fix: Backup AIObject::GetAllowDoCommand and restore the old value so AIs can't work around it.
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>there are a few posts which have "(Darkvater)" in them
14:24<@Darkvater>que?
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>r14684 | glx | 2008-12-17 00:02:22 +0100 (Mi, 17. Dez 2008) | 1 line
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>-Codechange: use SubWCRev object to get version info instead SubWCRev.exe for tortoiseSVN (Darkvater)
14:24<@Darkvater>the last "commit" I had my hand in was fixing freetype AA in the nightlies
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>r14397 | rubidium | 2008-09-25 01:25:24 +0200 (Do, 25. Sep 2008) | 2 lines
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>-Fix: possible buffer overrun, wrong parameter type passed to printf and && where || is meant. Found by MSVC's code analysis (Darkvater)
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14:29<Wolf01>reboot (installing developing IDEs, it might take some time)
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14:31<frosch123>rebooting after installing an ordinary piece of software... I can remember also having to do such things somewhen
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14:32<Roest>i wonder what he installed, i dont remember having to reboot after installing vs2008
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>i still get the shivers when i think of that...
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14:45<NukeBuster>does BaNaNaS autoupdate?
14:45<planetmaker>no
14:46<NukeBuster>so when a new version of content I downloaded is available I should be able to redownload it manually?
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14:46<planetmaker>yes
14:46<Roest>looks that way
14:46<NukeBuster>ok, thank you.
14:46<planetmaker>you're welcome
14:47<planetmaker>If you play on your own it doesn't matter that much
14:47<planetmaker>And if you play online, you'll get notified that you've missing grfs. So no problem really
14:51*Belugas thinks Darkvater should join the ball and move on commiting... anything
14:52<@Belugas>ball ?
14:52*Roest kicks the ball
14:53<@Belugas>ballroom... where people dance...
14:54<planetmaker>:)
14:54<planetmaker>which actually would be a good RL alternative... to any computer related activity
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14:56<yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/179579 <-- is that a known error?
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15:11<+glx>yorick: not in trunk
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15:12<yorick>heh
15:12<@Belugas>planetmaker, it seems that yes, newobjects are indeed in patch's trunk
15:13<planetmaker>oh?
15:13<planetmaker>Did you ask, Belugas ? Or did you find it?
15:14<@Belugas>i asked to the man
15:14<@Belugas>i had some more questions to ask anyway
15:14<planetmaker> :) He. Mostly people don't bite, I guess :)
15:15<Roest>meaning of life and stuff?
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15:18<@Belugas>climatology, if you really want to know :)
15:19<@petern>oh, that upsets me
15:20<+glx>planetmaker: so you have a working OSX dev env now?
15:20<planetmaker>glx: I'm just testing it. But yes, seems like
15:20<Sacro>i've just installed OSX on my desktop
15:20<Sacro>now to see if my 9800GTX+ will work
15:21<planetmaker>Sacro: is yours a Mac? Or a hackingtosh? :P
15:21<@Belugas>what, petern?
15:21<Sacro>planetmaker: latter
15:21<planetmaker>:D
15:21<planetmaker>interesting
15:22<Sacro>Yes
15:22<Sacro>Phenom 2 940, 4GB DDR1066, 9800GTX+
15:22<planetmaker>I'll remember that when - if - I buy my next personal desktop pc :)
15:22<Sacro>apple don't offer that
15:22-!-Powerek38 [~chatzilla@static-62-233-206-85.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #openttd
15:22<Powerek38>hi
15:23<Sacro>hey Powerek38
15:23-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5D15C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:23<Powerek38>I've just installed the lates nightly and is it normal that no competitor company is launched for the first 1,5 years of gameplay?
15:23<planetmaker>absolutely
15:23<Sacro>planetmaker: check the osx86 wiki and forums for parts
15:23<planetmaker>you have to enable them
15:23<Sacro>or ask me :p
15:23<planetmaker>Sacro: I will then :)
15:24<planetmaker>I read a few articles about that. Didn't seem like the easiest of endeavours
15:24<Powerek38>planetmaker: and how do I do that? I've set the maximum number for 14
15:24<Roest>that's alot
15:24<+glx>you need to get some AIs first
15:24<planetmaker>Powerek38: do you have any AI?
15:24<planetmaker>downloaded via content service?
15:24<Sacro>planetmaker: heh, mostly it's easy
15:24<Sacro>so long as you know what hardware you have and what kexts you need
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15:24<Powerek38>planetmaker: some, not all of them
15:25<Powerek38>all right, I'll get all
15:25<planetmaker>Sacro: so... you chose the hardware accordingly?
15:25<planetmaker>Powerek38: not necessary
15:25<planetmaker>open the console
15:25<planetmaker>type there:
15:25<planetmaker>start_ai <ainame>
15:25<Sacro>planetmaker: errm, no...
15:25<Sacro>sgiykda dibe]
15:25<planetmaker>where ainame is the name of the ai.
15:25<+glx>"start_ai" is enough
15:25<+glx>will start a random one
15:25<planetmaker>then it's random? :) Thx
15:26<planetmaker>you read minds, glx :)
15:26<Powerek38>ok, now a really silly one: how to access the console?
15:26<planetmaker>key left of 1
15:26<+glx>well it's random if you didn't configure the start list :)
15:26<Powerek38>many thanks for your help :)
15:26<Powerek38>bye!
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15:26<planetmaker>you're welcome. bye
15:26<planetmaker>...
15:26<+glx>too late ;)
15:26<planetmaker>yeah :)
15:27<yorick>glx: same bug also happens on clean trunk
15:27<+glx>yorick: no
15:27<@petern>yorick: that's your compiler
15:27<@petern>go fix it
15:28<yorick>heh
15:28<Sacro>sigh, graphics card isn't working
15:28<yorick>I am running the latest gcc version available with mingw
15:29<planetmaker>Sacro: that's sad :S
15:29<planetmaker>and much dimishes the joy of playing :D
15:29<lolman>Sacro: define not working
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15:30<+glx>yorick: the test version?
15:30<yorick>yes
15:31<+glx>that's your problem :)
15:31<planetmaker>then get a stable version, yorick
15:31<yorick>the stable version doesn't compile openttd
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15:31<+glx>3.4.5 clearly does
15:31<planetmaker>Err... I guess others use it?
15:32<yorick>I was using that, I was told "3.4.5 is broken, switch to newer one"
15:33<+glx>who said that ?
15:33<yorick>TB
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15:38<@Darkvater>amen Belugas
15:40<planetmaker>hi Darkvater, high priest of ottd ;)
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15:41<Roest>Wolf01 that was a long restart
15:41<Wolf01>vs80 installation
15:42<Wolf01>and now... where I put the files of ottd_useful?
15:42<+glx>just extract here somewhere and add paths in VS
15:42<Roest>no put them in the include and libs dir
15:42<+glx>my system is easier to update :)
15:43<+glx>and to clean too
15:43<Roest>i revert or check out a clean trunk so often that i dont like that :)
15:44<Wolf01>do I need all the files or only shared and win32 folders?
15:44<+glx>include and win32 lib
15:45<+glx>but extracting the zip and set path in VS is the easier way
15:45<Wolf01>ok, glx guide me :D
15:46<Wolf01>I extracted the ottd_useful in d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful
15:46<+glx>extract the zip somewhere (you'll get a "OpenTTD Essentials" dir)
15:46<Wolf01>yes that
15:46<+glx>then open VS
15:47<+glx>go to "Tools|Options"
15:47<Wolf01>I'm here
15:48<+glx>"Projects and solutions"
15:48<+glx>"vc++ directories"
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15:49<Wolf01>I should add all the subfolders or only the "Openttd essentials"?
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15:50<+glx>in dropdown you select "include files" and add d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful\OpenTTD Essentials\shared\include"
15:50<+glx>and win32\library for "library files"
15:52<Swallow>in the meantime, please review http://paste.openttd.org/179581
15:52<Swallow>nvm, wrong channel
15:52<Wolf01>and win32\include for include files too?
15:52<+glx>it's empty ;)
15:53<Wolf01>oh, nice
15:56<Wolf01>there is an error with dmusic "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory"
15:57<+glx>wrong directx version
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15:57<+glx>you need april 2007 IIRC
15:57<Wolf01>oh
15:57<+glx>hmm no indeed you don't have directx at all ;)
15:57<Wolf01>maybe I still have 9.0 instead of 9.0c
15:57<+glx>SDK I mean
15:57<Wolf01>ah no, I think I don't have it
16:01<Roest>Wolf01 http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
16:02<Wolf01>I was trying to open it, but seem that FF is again a bit slow
16:02<Wolf01>thank you anyway
16:05<Wolf01>whoa 2x500MB... I think I should have them around
16:07<@petern>how does OverrideManager work?
16:09<@petern>hmm, possibly not what i need
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16:24<Nite_Owl>'Allo 'Allo
16:28<dihedral>huu huu
16:28<dihedral>;-)
16:28<planetmaker>kickerikieh
16:28<planetmaker>:P
16:28<@Belugas>waht are you look for, petern?
16:29<@Rubidium>Ze flashing knobs!
16:30<Nite_Owl>Good moaning
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16:50<Sacro>Rubidium: hehe
16:50<Sacro>ze fallen madonna with ze big boobies
16:51<Nite_Owl>What a mistaka to maka
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16:58<planetmaker>good night folks
16:58<@Belugas>u2, me 2 2 all
16:58<Nite_Owl>later planetmaker
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16:59<Nite_Owl>later Belugas (?)
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17:07<dihedral>[22:30] <Rubidium> Ze flashing knobs! <- are they undo knobs?
17:09<Aali>aircraft in flight have tile set to 0, should this not be INVALID_TILE?
17:09<Yexo>why? tile 0 works fine
17:10<Yexo>I do agree INVALID_TILE would be nicer, but there is no real need for it
17:10<Aali>I know, it's just a code style issue
17:10<Wolf01>I need to download the ms platform sdk, if I download the one for windows server 2003 is it the same? the link on the wiki points that one
17:11<Aali>but it did have me confused for a while
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17:13<Roest>Wolf01 for openttd?
17:13<Wolf01>yes
17:14<Roest>interesting
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17:30<SmatZ>Aali: I was thinking about that codechange, but I wasn't sure how VehiclePosHash would handle it, and I didn't think about it further...
17:30<+glx>Wolf01: windows server 2003 R2 is platform sdk ;)
17:30<Wolf01>ok, I'll try, last time it failed to install
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17:31<Aali>I have no idea how VehiclePosHash works or even what it does :o
17:32<+glx>it's a very important stuff (used for vehicle collisions)
17:32<Aali>aircraft can't collide though
17:34<SmatZ>of course everything is doable, and I hope to do that once, but not now :-x
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17:34<Aali>no rush :)
17:34<SmatZ>;-)
17:38<Wolf01>'night
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17:47<rortom>hi all
17:51<rortom>RoR has nearly the same coding style as ottd now :)
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause>SyntaxError: future feature antigravity is not defined
18:06<goodger>quite
18:06*goodger supports the banning of munroe from $conference
18:08<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: however, in 2.6... :P
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>i can't try that currently ;)
18:10<goodger>valhallasw: you mean 3.0, surely
18:11<goodger>2.6 has bugfixes and forward-compatibility backports
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>"__future__" IS forward compatibility
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18:14<valhallasw>goodger: yes and no. I checked it; it's neither in 2.6 or 3.0; only in the trunk :)
18:14<valhallasw>http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/antigravity.py?rev=66902&view=markup :)
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18:16<goodger>LOL
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18:19<Roujin>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&p=763925#p763925 <--- you know.. orudge is not THAT bad, Rubidium...
18:20<@Rubidium>Roujin: I know
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18:21<@Rubidium>but replacing a seemingly non-offensive word like 'copyrighted game' with something more offensive and saying exactly the same as someone makes people think about the real implications
18:24<@petern>hmm, that seems to work
18:24<@petern>handling changing order of railtypes in a savegame
18:25<@petern>not much help if one is missing, mind you
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>when one is missing, do the same as the "disable elrails" switch?
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. convert everything to conventional rail
18:27<@petern>ah, but if the rail type is missing, it is quite posible that the vehicles designed for that rail type are also unavailable
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>so?
18:27<Yexo>petern: not necesarily, if there are seperate rail and vehicle sets
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>but missing vehicles are handled currently, as well
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>why change that behaviour?
18:29<@petern>i'm not
18:29<@petern>infact, defaulting to normal rail is what happens in my code
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>for the rail, yes. but the vehicles need to get "powered on rail"
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why is this neko guy always bragging about how bad his computer is?
18:31<thingwath>Hm, I'm sorry, but I couldn't find it... what are these rail types good for? :o)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>how about typing "railtypes" in the search bar of the wiki?
18:32<@petern>not simple. railtypes are not saved for vehicles. therefore if the railtype doesn't exist, the vehicles end up with something else as their railtype anyway.
18:32<@petern>so if a railtype is missing all you're left with is an index for railtypes on the map with no other infomration
18:32<thingwath>well, I don't understand newgrfs, so that railtypes page is not very useful for me...
18:33<Roujin>eddi: actually what he's doing is bragging about how he has no idea and is immune to help from others...
18:34<Roujin>thingwath: currently there are only four fixed rail types, normal rail, elrail, mono and maglev. petern is working towards being able to define new rail types with newgrfs
18:35<Roujin>that's what it's about..
18:35<rortom>oh, nice :)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>narrow gauge electric rail
18:36<thingwath>will it be possible to make a different voltage systems for elrail?
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>narrow gauge rack railways
18:36<rortom>cool :)
18:36<rortom>i guess its quite some code to fix up :\
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>thingwath: yes, you can do that, but how would you visually distinguish a 50 Hz from a 16 2/3 Hz system?
18:37<Roujin>making something that is fixed/hardcoded flexible is not an easy task..
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing that does make sense is separating catenary (often AC) from 3rd rail (often DC)
18:38<Roujin>but I'm positive that he'll eventually be successful :)
18:38<@petern>eventually?
18:38<thingwath>I don't know. :) But on the other hand, it's so strange to have 25 kV/50 Hz vehicle on the same track as the 3 kV one...
18:38<@petern>it's been working in the hg repo for ages ;)
18:38<rortom>oh o_O
18:39<rortom>also, why you switched to hg?
18:39<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: make the graphics flicker at that speed?
18:39<Roujin>so then you didn't merge it to trunk just for fun? ;)
18:39<thingwath>50 Hz flicker on 60 Hz LCD display?
18:39<thingwath>:)
18:39<@petern>it needs a clean up
18:39<@petern>it's the first incarnation, it always needs tidying
18:40<Roujin>but indeed I did not know you already have a working version
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure the americans actually used a 60 Hz system ;)
18:40<Roujin>does it also have road types?
18:40<@petern>nope
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: do remember that you are talking with peter "i have a patch for that" nelson ;)
18:42<Roujin>petern: aww, no test grf of the sprites andythenorth made for my trails hack then yet :P
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>petern: so, can we have speed limits and axle weight limits on railtypes?
18:43<@petern>Eddi|zuHause: nope
18:43<@petern>not implemented
18:43<@petern>wouldn't take much to add those properties though
18:43<thingwath>does the game have any information about how many axles vehicles have?
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>thingwath: no, but the vehicle could get an axle weight property
18:44<thingwath>loaded/empty?
18:45-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:45<@petern>number of axles
18:45<@petern>then axle load is simple
18:45<@petern>number of axles = 2, pretty much :p
18:45<@petern>except for steam engines
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>it might be not as simple, but the weight might be not equally divided amongst the axles
18:46*Rubidium wonders how it works with liquid cargo when the tank is half filled on a slope ;)
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. on steam engines
18:46<@petern>there's not enough spread to make much difference on carriages
18:46<thingwath>tank cannot be half filled :o)
18:46<@Rubidium>thingwath: ofcourse it can
18:46<@petern>Rubidium: realistic gravity!
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i believe the tank wagons have internal walls
18:46<thingwath>well, yes, it can, but there are internal divisions
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>also minimises the effect of broken wagons
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>"Dää Dröbbeln zäähln!"
18:48<rortom>just redefine gravity :|
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>thingwath: i don't think it makes a lot of sense to distinguish empty and full axle weight, if you do that, you also would need to allow for wagons to get 80% load, in order to be used on a lighter track
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>much easier to supply two different wagons
18:54<fjb>Hm, a locomotive switching order comes to my mind then.
18:59-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>not only yours ;)
19:06<@Rubidium>oh, lets integrate simsig too ;)
19:06<@petern>and openbve
19:06<@petern>and ror
19:06<rortom>cool :P
19:06<welshdragon>simsig??
19:07<welshdragon>openbve??
19:07<rortom>you keep growing: https://www.ohloh.net/p/openttd/analyses/latest :)
19:09<rortom>google is your friend ;)
19:10<Sacro>wtf
19:10<Sacro>385 lines of 'awk'
19:10<Sacro>how did you manage that?
19:10<@Rubidium>by writing a few lines of awk ofcourse
19:11<Sacro>a few?
19:11<Roujin>rortom: hah, I can see NoAI :)
19:11<Sacro>that's hardly a "few"
19:12-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.195] has joined #openttd
19:12<@Rubidium>it's only 313 lines of awk
19:13<rortom>300 lines of awk are quite something o_O
19:13<@Rubidium>it's a single script
19:13*Prof_Frink rewrites openttd as a 2-line perl script
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>why does it list java when there are 0 lines of it?
19:14<Sacro>Prof_Frink: imports openttd;
19:14<welshdragon>as it is a coding language Eddi|zuHause
19:14<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: universal binary?
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but there are >500 more coding languages that could be listed, welshdragon
19:15<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: So's fuckfuck, but that's not listed.
19:15<rortom>strange, maybe there was some java used before, but not recently?
19:15<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: point taken
19:15*welshdragon ignores the rude remark of Prof_Frink
19:15<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: No, really.
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>is that a brainfuck dialect?
19:16<Prof_Frink>Yeah
19:16<Prof_Frink>http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuckfuck
19:16<@Rubidium>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/tags/0.4.0/os/macosx/openttdmidi.java
19:17<welshdragon>we should write openttd in fuckfucjk
19:17<welshdragon>*fuckfuck
19:17<rortom>i bet ohloh wouldnt detect whitespace :p
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>certainly not when it is obfuscated within c code ;)
19:19-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.181.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:20<@Belugas>Roujin!
19:20<@Belugas>rortom!
19:20<rortom>Belugas!
19:20*Belugas !
19:20<Roujin>BaNaNaS!
19:20<@Belugas>aPPLES!
19:20<Roujin>orangeS!
19:20<Roujin>r4nd0mn3ss!
19:26<@Belugas>ResetButton!
19:27<Roujin>UndoKnob!
19:27<@Belugas>o_O
19:28<@Belugas>knob
19:28<@Belugas>you do understand this is alomost considered as a provocation leading to a possible kick?
19:28<@Belugas>do you?
19:28<Roujin>ha, I won :)
19:28<@Belugas>mhh?
19:29<@Belugas>hehe
19:29<Roujin>If you kick me, I am actually forced to study for my upcoming exam, than spending my nighttime otherwise :(
19:30-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
19:30<@Belugas>is this a supplication?
19:30<@petern>is that so?
19:30-!-Roujin was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [you wanted to learn for your exam]
19:31<rortom>good decision
19:31<rortom>;)
19:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
19:32<@Belugas>poor guy :)
19:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:33<@Belugas>riping him out of his only socialisation
19:33<SmatZ>he's back!
19:33-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5D15C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
19:33<SmatZ>ah... I thought you were talking about eddi :-p
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>i could have said "nobody helps me writing my thesis either" ;)
19:34<SmatZ>:)
19:35<@Rubidium>this kick is for the benefit of the community; now he has a higher chance to pass his exam, so he might finish his education earlier, get a job earlier, donate more earlier ;)
19:35<@Belugas>nobody could help you since nobody understand a thing you're saying, Eddi|zuHause
19:35<kd5pbo>Eddi|zuHause: On what is your thesis?
19:35-!-lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:36-!-[sleep]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36-!-Combuster is now known as [sleep]buster
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>on source code abstraction and analysis
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>cross-language
19:36<kd5pbo>Oh.
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>specifically, a mixture of python and c/c++
19:37<rortom>sounds interesting :)
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>it is, but i have not enough time to do everything i want ;)
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>and i have problems actually writing stuff down
19:38<kd5pbo>Why python and C?
19:38<kd5pbo>Why not Java?
19:38<@Belugas>ever trying up?
19:38-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5D15C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38<kd5pbo>Nobody's gonna understand what you're writing.
19:38<kd5pbo>:D
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>because the code is in python and c, not in java
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>(it is real world industrial code)
19:39-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39<kd5pbo>I've noticed that most real world code does not seem to be Java.
19:39<kd5pbo>My professors, however, haven't.
19:40<goodger>kd5pbo: java is the only programming language used in real-world situations, possibly alongside C++ or visual basic
19:40<goodger>if you don't believe that, you're overqualified for your course
19:40-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5D15C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:41<goodger>and I reckon you're probably at a british university?
19:41<kd5pbo>Nope.
19:41<kd5pbo>US
19:41<kd5pbo>Why?
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>my professor teaches his very own language ;)
19:41<goodger>ah
19:42<goodger>all computing courses in the UK treat java like it's useful
19:42<goodger>I assumed this was limited to the UK
19:42<rortom>i think thats a global knownledge
19:42<rortom>its in germany like that as well ...
19:42<kd5pbo>Same here.
19:43<kd5pbo>For the first two years, Java is treated like it's the only language in existance.
19:43<kd5pbo>All the others have died, or something.
19:43<kd5pbo>Starting with the third year or so, professors seem to assume we know C.
19:47-!-lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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19:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15441 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp api/ai_industrytype.cpp): -Cleanup: Use a return value instead of passing a pointer to where the result should be stored.
19:48<kd5pbo>My plane takes six months or so to get across the map.
19:48<thingwath>exams, exams, I have passed a formal langauges exam, lala :o)
19:48<kd5pbo>My pasengers must really have to pee.
19:49<@Rubidium>that's not that hard
19:50-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-10-28-138.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:56-!-[Nemesis] [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:56-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>you must study at the wrong universities
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>i have used at least a dozen programming languages
20:01-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-217-106.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:03<Sacro>kd5pbo: we are doing c#, c++, prolog
20:03<Sacro>next year we can do lexx/bison
20:04<kd5pbo>I used prolog once.
20:04<kd5pbo>The lack of return values got to me.
20:05<thingwath>lack of return values?
20:05<kd5pbo>Doesn't prolog not have return values.
20:05<kd5pbo>It was a while ago.
20:07<@Rubidium>amanda, asm c, c++, c#, java, haskell, labview, maple, matlab, prolog, vhdl (and I've got the feeling I've forgotten some)
20:07<thingwath>prolog is basicaly only a logic resolution with horn claueses, isn't it?
20:08<SmatZ>Rubidium: vhdl, but not verilog?
20:09<@Rubidium>SmatZ: might be, but I don't remember that so clearly anymore
20:12<SmatZ>impressive... my CPU is overheating when I open the case
20:12<SmatZ>but when I close it, it isn't
20:12<fjb>You learned about air flow.
20:13<SmatZ>fjb: shouldn't open case reduce the temperature inside computer?
20:13<kd5pbo>SmatZ: Not necessarily.
20:13<SmatZ>well, the reason is the cooler runs at ~2800 RPM when the case is open... but goes up to ~4000 when it is closed
20:14<SmatZ>so the CPU doesn't overheat
20:14<fjb>SmatZ: No, as the closed cases assures that there is some air flow at the important places.
20:16-!-el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16<SmatZ>fjb: it's more clever than I thought
20:17<rortom>nite
20:17-!-rortom [~rortom@5ac3dbe5.bb.sky.com] has left #openttd []
20:19<SmatZ>anyway, I blame the thermoregulation of the cooler for this
20:19<SmatZ>if it was controlled by MB, it wouldn't be overheating... and it would be more silent
20:21*Sacro controlled by micheal blunck?
20:21-!-Zorni [~zorn@e177224195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
20:21<fjb>I thought the same at the first moment. :-)
20:21<SmatZ>hehe :)
20:22<fjb>It would only work with main boards made by Intel.
20:24<SmatZ>I got some gigabyte... and it offers CPU FAN RMP regulation too
20:25<SmatZ>it even offers to choose between "regulate voltage / use PWM"
20:25*SmatZ should have a look in his notes what would be the advantage of using PWM...
20:26<fjb>PWM is the new 4 pin connector.
20:26<SmatZ>is this PWM something different than "pulse width modulation"?
20:27<fjb>I thinking about that. At least it uses some clock singal instead of changing the voltage.
20:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15442 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't do magic on magic numbers when you can also use a single named constant.
20:28-!-Zorn [~zorn@e177235084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:28<SmatZ>if you send the "pulses" from MB, you don't need 4 pins ... 2 would be enough :) (+ 1 for reading RPM)
20:29<SmatZ>well... maybe it uses that "weird" PWM that allows rotating in both directions... or so :)
20:30<thingwath>hm, hardware, how do I like it...
20:31<SmatZ>:o)
20:31<fjb>Hm, don't know, but I found many meanings for PWM on wikipedia.
20:31<thingwath>my computer died few times this week, with something like machine check exception 0+4
20:31<SmatZ>hehe
20:32<thingwath>so if it will continue, I don't have any other idea then buying a new one
20:32<thingwath>:-/
20:33<SmatZ>MCE's are CPU-family specific, have a look at your CPU's documentation :)
20:34<thingwath>I did, it seems it's just a generic error "something went wrong"
20:34<SmatZ>:-/
20:34<thingwath>and it really shouldn't just blink and reboot itself :)
20:35<SmatZ>if you are using windows, you can disable the "reboot after error" somewhere ... but you get a bluscreen, that's not much better :-p
20:37<thingwath>well, I use linux :) and it displayed the MCE error when trying to boot again, the first reboot was just a sudden failure
20:37<SmatZ>hmm
20:38<SmatZ>I remember I used to have these errors too
20:38<SmatZ>I installed mcelog, but it didn't help at all
20:38<thingwath>the most common problem with this HP laptops is cracked motherboard or something like this, it may be this problem
20:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15443 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/ (sqapi.cpp sqvm.cpp sqvm.h): [Squirrel] -Fix [FS#2627]: Squirrel stack corruption resulting if an AI was suspended in a metamethod.
20:39<SmatZ>I was getting these errors when booting up... I don't remember how I fixed that though :-x maybe kernel upgrade did the job :) or disabling MCE in kernel config ;)
20:39-!-const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:39<thingwath>the main problem is not the MCE error, it doesn't happen on every boot :) main problem is the sudden reboot...
20:39*SmatZ tries to remember
20:40<SmatZ>I know it was quite recently...
20:40<SmatZ>thingwath: if you are using 2.6.26, stop using it :)
20:42<thingwath>I have Fedora 10 .27 kernel :)
20:42<SmatZ>hmhm I don't know then :(
20:43<thingwath>maybe it won't happen again :)
20:43<SmatZ>hehe :)
20:44<thingwath>I hope so, I don't like the idea of buying a new computer every 3 years or so
20:44<SmatZ>I know I was having problems at one computer - locking up every ~7 days, and the other computer failed to boot once in ~4 tries
20:45<SmatZ>but now I am using 2.6.28 and I don't have any problems anymore (I think I didn't have problems with 2.6.27 neither)
20:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15444 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files):
20:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r15425): the chat messages gone gray. That gray colour was technically
20:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: right. The string contained {GRAY}, but due to a latent bug (accidentally fixed
20:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: in r15425) in the string drawing routing the gray would be interpreted as use
20:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: palette colour 14, which is a white.
20:46<thingwath>I don't know, I still hope that if it was a kernel problem, it would still show some error message or at least blink with keyboard LEDs before dying completely :) (I know, I'm so naive.)
20:47<@Rubidium>not if the kernel overrides your ACPI stuff
20:47<SmatZ>maybe PSU is going to die or so :)
20:47<thingwath>it's mostly already dead
20:48<SmatZ>hehe :)
20:49<goodger>27 isn't very mature yet
20:49<goodger>and F10 was by no means mature when released
20:49<SmatZ>goodger: it's the next kernel to be "maintainted for very long time" (as 2.6.16 used to be :)
20:50<thingwath>or at least I think I need a new charger, only because a connector...
20:50<thingwath>well, I've been using F10 from the second test :) I'm used to it, I do it with every fedora from version 4 or 5. :o)
20:51<goodger>SmatZ: lovely
20:52<SmatZ>hmm 2.6 tree is 5 years old!
20:55<goodger>quite
20:55-!-Zahl [~Zahl@e179094049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
20:55<goodger>and from an interview from circa 2.6.13, it will not be replaced
20:55<thingwath>yes, but 2.6.28 would most likely be 2.10.0 with the old release system :)
20:56<SmatZ>I think there was a discussion if it's better to use "another 2.6.xx , 2.8 or 3.0"
20:56<SmatZ>the "use 2.6.xx" opinion probably won :)
20:56<goodger>quite
20:56<thingwath>Linus suggested something like Ubuntu date-based numbers.
20:56<goodger>a problem with 2.2 vs 2.4 was observed
20:56<goodger>people kept backporting things from 2.3 into the 2.2 kernel
20:57<goodger>so they thought "sod it, we'll just release with linear version numbering"
20:57<SmatZ>:o)
21:00<thingwath>date-based release numbers are not that bad idea, for example, I can remember that .23 was almost unusable for me, because there were lot of changes, but I can't remember when it was... last year? 2007? I just don't know.
21:01<goodger>does it really matter when it was released?
21:02*SmatZ was surprised when he understood the meaning of ".4" and ".10" numbers ;)
21:02<SmatZ>(in Ubuntu, month on release)
21:02<thingwath>:)
21:02<thingwath>me too. :)
21:02<thingwath>it took me about two years :o)
21:03<SmatZ>hehe someone else told me so :o)
21:12<goodger>¬.¬
21:12<goodger>it all went wrong with the 6.10 release
21:13<goodger>they had four months to develop a new release of ubuntu. they decided to shove a lot of bleeding-edge features into it
21:14<goodger>it became apparent that the bleeding-edge features would make it buggy as hell, and they decided to remove many of them
21:14<goodger>despite this, it was still buggy as hell
21:15<kd5pbo>Does anything affect an industry's production?
21:15<kd5pbo>Percentage of cargo, transported, for example.
21:25-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485C221.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:27<@Belugas>muuhh muuhh
21:28-!-fjb [~frank@p5485C6C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15445 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Fix: little typos
21:40<welshdragon>hmm
21:41*welshdragon is tired, but has to get up in 4 hours
21:44<goodger>welshdragon: stay up and drink a colossal amount of caffeine, then get to bed early
21:46<welshdragon>goodger: i'm drinking fresh orange
21:46<goodger>not good enough
21:46<goodger>get yeself a two-litre bottle of pepsi max and a toilet
21:46<welshdragon>hmm, all the pepsi max is gone :(
21:46<goodger>buy more?
21:47<welshdragon>nearest shop is closed
21:47<welshdragon>3rd nearest is about a 45 minute round trip walking
21:47<goodger>go to a less-near shop?
21:47*welshdragon doesn't drive
21:47<goodger>ah
21:47<goodger>problematic
21:47<welshdragon>very :P
21:48<goodger>see, if I really need anything, there's a 24-hour tesco ten minutes away
21:48*welshdragon can't drive either
21:48<goodger>inconvenient
21:48<goodger>how do you move about?
21:48*welshdragon points goodger to v
21:49<welshdragon>argh
21:49<welshdragon>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40948
21:49<welshdragon>that kinda explains about my sight
21:50<goodger>:S
21:50<goodger>how long have you had that?
21:52<welshdragon>since birth
21:53<goodger>how monstrously unpleasant a hand dealt by fate
21:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15446 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp:
21:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Revert(r15445): Seems that "iff" stands for "if and only if". So not much of a typo.
21:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks, Yexo. I feel less ignorant today :D
21:54<welshdragon>lol, what a revision!
21:54<goodger>quite
21:54<goodger>my grandmother is suffering from macular degeneration and cataracts, but my eyesight actually exceeds 20:20, so I have no idea what it must be like
21:54<Sacro>blurry
21:55<Sacro>and narrow fielded
21:55<goodger>:S
21:55<goodger>corrective lenses are powerless to help, I suppose, with this sort of thing
21:55<welshdragon>goodger: my girlfriend has a similar condition, but hers affects her differently, she scored highly on an Autistic Spectrum test, so i believer she also has a form of autism
21:55<goodger>still, I'd have thought there'd be a surgical assistance
21:56<welshdragon>goodger: still, I'd have thought there'd be a surgical assistance < not necessarily
21:56<Sacro>goodger: yep
21:56<Sacro>cataracts can be lasered off
21:56<Sacro>but only when they've developed sufficiently
21:56<Sacro>macular degeneration is incurable currently
21:56<goodger>I was talking about welshdragon's thing
21:56<Sacro>btu there's hope of stem cells being able to regenerate them
21:57<goodger>the NHS refused to treat the cataracts because she's too old
21:57<goodger>I'm well aware the macular degeneration is incurable
21:57<goodger>welshdragon: I can sympathise with her on that: I have asperger syndrome, it's not pleasant
21:57<welshdragon>me and my girlfriend's vision can't be surgically cured, in fact, it could worsen and both of us could end up blind
21:57<welshdragon>*mine
21:57<goodger>still, I can't imagine having impaired vision
21:59<goodger>that must be frustrating
21:59<welshdragon>goodger: the easiest way to describe my vision is to get a crystal cleat picture on an analog television set
21:59<welshdragon>then slightly detune it
22:00<goodger>ah, that's what channel four looks like all the time
22:00<goodger>I think I understand
22:01<welshdragon>goodger: see /query :P
22:02<thingwath>I'm happy with my shortsightedness :-)
22:02<goodger>I'm happy with my superhuman vision :S
22:03<goodger>I suppose I should be grateful for having a primarily conforming physical body
22:03<goodger>if not a mind ^_^
22:03<thingwath>On the other hand, I don't like woodpeckers because of that.
22:04<goodger>wha?
22:04<thingwath>:) I were always told "look, a woodpecker there!", and I could never see any :D
22:05<thingwath>they are still quite mythical creatures for me
22:06<goodger>...
22:06<goodger>quite
22:07<thingwath>seeing is believing
22:07<thingwath>not seeing... :)
22:07<goodger>I've never seen one
22:08<goodger>then again, I've never seen one of those pigeons that goes "hoooooooo!" in the night obscenely loudly
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22:11<thingwath>I've heard them. Even tried to kill them.
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22:12<goodger>heh
22:15<thingwath>they always managed to cover my balcony with 2 centimeters thick layer of shit every in three days after the last cleaning, bleh
22:16<goodger>wonderful
22:26<welshdragon>thingwath: just pour some poison over their food
22:26<welshdragon>they will soon leave :P
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22:35<thingwath>I left :-)
22:36<goodger>heh
22:36<thingwath>Not because of the pidgeons. :-)
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23:54<kd5pbo>Is there any way to increase a town's size besides moving people around?
23:54<kd5pbo>Also, is there any way to convince a small town to accept goods?
---Logclosed Wed Feb 11 00:00:08 2009