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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-15

---Logopened Sun Feb 15 00:00:15 2009
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04:02<Wolf01>hello
04:04-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@17-228-255.ggsn.netcom.no] has joined #openttd
04:08<OsteHovel^EEE>Hi all! Im awake.
04:09<Wolf01>OMG he left Matrix
04:12<Gekz>,
04:13<OsteHovel^EEE>"Make sure AIs can't call functions they shouldn't call." AI's gone more intelligent than humans?
04:16<Gekz>lol
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04:29<Roest>morning
04:30<db48x>hello
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04:51<Alberth>good morning all
04:52<TrueBrain>morning Alberth
04:53-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
04:55<Zuu>Hello is there some .bat hero here? Anyone know why the date string isn't inserted into the commands? http://paste.openttd.org/179693
04:56<Zuu>Or somone knowing how to execute commands like xcopy etc. from within a vbs script.. :s
05:07<TrueBrain>a deep silence hits Zuu :)
05:08<Zuu>Hehe :)
05:08<TrueBrain>ins't str reserved somehow?
05:08<TrueBrain>dunno, wild guess
05:08<Zuu>don't think so, have failed with other variable names too :)
05:09<Roest>my knowledge about that stuff is in deep freeze for like 15 years now
05:10<Zuu>Might just make small delphi application if I can't get it to work :-)
05:13<Zuu>And I am not sure yet if I can make windows-based copy tools to preverse the unix file attributes on an ext2 drive. (using the ext2 driver). Made an ext2 partion on an USB drive just to find out that Windows don't support mounting anything else than the first partion on USB-drives. (and my first partition is reiserfs, which of course don't work with ext2 driver)
05:13<planetmaker>:P
05:14<planetmaker>morning all :)
05:14<Roest>lol reiserfs may kill your wife
05:14<Alberth>good morning planetmaker
05:14<Zuu>Roest: :p Good I don't have a wife then :)
05:14<planetmaker>hello Alberth
05:15<Roest>that was a wikipedia entry on a table comparing file systems, after reiser was convicted for killing his wife
05:16<planetmaker>lol
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>i once tried a reiserfs driver for windows, but it crashed and rebooted each time i tried to access the drive
05:17<Zuu>I think I also tried with raiserfs on Windows with the same results.
05:17<Zuu>Big blue screen if I recall correctly
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05:57<OsteHovel^EEE>Is there a way to play on the map that is the title screen?
05:58<Roujin>yes
05:58<Roujin>you'll see that the stuff you see on the title screen is pretty much faked though :P
05:59<OsteHovel^EEE>i know it just going around
05:59<Roujin>look for opntitle.dat and rename it to [something].sav (or rather copy it)
05:59<OsteHovel^EEE>ok
06:00<Roujin>the other way around, you can make yourself a new title screen ;)
06:00<OsteHovel^EEE>cool
06:00<OsteHovel^EEE>it worked
06:00-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75102.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:01<OsteHovel^EEE>lol the title screen is a game that has been cheated on
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06:04<Roujin>well of course..
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06:04<Roujin>everything there is faked..
06:04<planetmaker>basic c/c++ question. How do I obtain the length of a string?
06:05<planetmaker>I have a const char *string
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06:05<Roujin>count until you hit a zero?
06:05<@Rubidium>strlen
06:05<planetmaker>there's no size_of() or something?
06:05<planetmaker>thx, Rubidium :)
06:06<@Rubidium>sizeof(const char *string) == sizeof(pointer), which is usually 4 for 32 bits CPUs and 8 for 64 bits CPUs
06:06<planetmaker>he :) I guess that's not what I want:)
06:07<Roujin>strlen basically counts until it hits a zero, doesn't it?
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06:08<OsteHovel^EEE>i changed by title screen
06:08<planetmaker>that'd be fine for me, Roujin :)
06:09<Roujin>yup, just wanted to check..
06:14<Roujin>Rubidium: I'm making a small patch to readd "space" to toggle content items in the content download list (since we now have the widget focus in trunk); should I keep RETURN (only used that as a substitute for space, before we had widget focus), or scrap it?
06:15<OsteHovel^EEE>Keep Return
06:15<OsteHovel^EEE>Keep Return and add Space,...
06:16<Zuu>Roujin: What you can do is to remove the code I added that focuses the edit box by default, and then when one press some key, give the edit box focus.
06:17<Zuu>Then you can use space for selecting items in the list without conflicting with editing the contents of the edit box.
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06:18<Zuu>For the filter sign list patch, I use that approach. Edit box is non-focused by default, and when one press the f-key the edit box get focused.
06:18<Roujin>hmm, you have to click somewhere into the list anyway to get something selected
06:19<Roujin>and then the box isn't focused anymore
06:19<Zuu>Then I miss understood, though you would use the arrow keys to select things in the list and then space to select?
06:19<planetmaker>Zuu: apropos filter signs: is there an update to that patch available?
06:20<Zuu>planetmaker: Nope, not untill I get around to do it :)
06:20<planetmaker>hehe :)
06:20<Roujin>yes, but you have to click somewhere in the first place to get you started
06:20<Roujin>when opening the window, nothing is selected
06:21<Zuu>Using space in addition to enter I guess is for convinience as the space bar is usually better placed than enter on *most* keyboards (except mine and a few other who has both space and enter placed on a good location)
06:21<planetmaker>It's just that I'm starting to miss it :)
06:21<Roujin>well actually you can just scroll with arrow keys without clicking on anything before..
06:22<Roujin>Zuu: it's also common for space to select something like checkboxes
06:22<Zuu>Roujin: hmm, yes
06:22<Roujin>while enter usually means "close the window with the ok button"
06:23<planetmaker>Roujin: well, but I think in this case space is better used for selecting an item.
06:23<planetmaker>The text box there - if you want to search, use clicking on it :)
06:24<planetmaker>Tab could activate the textbox :P
06:24<Zuu>If fastforward is moved to ctrl+Tab or something
06:24<planetmaker>he, yeah. Forgot about that.
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06:25<Zuu>Though moving it to ctrl+tab seams fine to me.
06:25<Zuu>But there will be a storm of users claming otherwise :-p
06:26<Roujin>okay I'll now do the following:
06:26<Roujin>textbox not focussed by default;
06:26<Roujin>so one can scroll through the list and press space without clicking somewhere before
06:27<Roujin>and, pressing any other key than the scrolling and selecting ones will focus the textbox.
06:27<Roujin>what do you think?
06:28<planetmaker>good choice imo
06:29<planetmaker>you anyway don't search for things starting with space, do you?
06:29<Zuu>Sounds good, the only thing I am wondering about is making *any* other key focus the edit box. Could do for now. But at some point I guess it would be good if OpenTTD settle for a standard key for that.
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06:29<Roest>i'm getting the feeling the more passenger i move the more it creates, i had such high hopes in the 747
06:29<Zuu>Ctrl+L (like in a file/web browser) or f (for filter)
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06:31<Zuu>Adding something like tab on window level, so that not individual windows need to implement it would of course be the best, but would need a definition of which widgets to cycle through.
06:31<Zuu>But for now and Roujins work making any key focus the edit box I guess is sufficent.
06:32-!-fjb [~frank@p5485D737.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:32<fjb>Hello
06:35<Alberth>Roest: one of the disadvantages of providing a good service :)
06:36<Roest>well i'm playing with cargodest, it seems like it always adjusts to what i'm doing and it's alway several thousand passengers waiting
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06:44<Eddi|zuHause2>something is wrong... whenever i hit "submit" in the forum, my browser hangs
06:44-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
06:44<planetmaker>hey fjb
06:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: don't hit submit
06:45<Ammler>what is the advantage of having squirrel outside of trunk?
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06:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is a wonderful solution ;)
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06:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: it might have to do that it has an other copyright owner .. dunno .. just an idea
06:47<Ammler>TrueBrain: thanks, I am in trouble with pulling a hg repo :-)
06:48<TrueBrain>create a patch for Mercurial to support externals
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06:52<Ammler>checkout/pull with make?
06:52<Alberth>Ammler: I have a local hg trunk copy, and have manually added the /3rdparty/squirrel files in it (ie that part is a SVN working-copy). 'hg pull' works, except it doesn't update src/3rdparty/squirrel. To compensate, I manually run svn up src/3rdparty/squirrel just before the hg commit. It works, except that after a pull, I have to merge+commit
06:53<Ammler>(or is that too late?)
06:54<Alberth>Ammler: from that trunk copy, I make new clones for patch development
06:54<Alberth>Ammler: with every build?
06:56<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: I just realised about the visualisation. I can do the video automatically, probably the text as well through embedded subtitles and some script
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06:57<TrueBrain>Darkvater: go for it! :p
06:57<@Darkvater>but music and the pre/post stuff will be really hard unless there is some text-line videoeditor out there which can render in alpha-mode and overlay different kinds of videos to encode
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06:57<@Darkvater>hi all btw
06:57<TrueBrain>Darkvater: overlaying music is really easy: ffmpeg
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>mencodeR?
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06:57<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: eh..the video gets longer and longer :P
06:58<TrueBrain>and concatting movies can most likely be done by ffmpeg too :)
06:58<TrueBrain>Darkvater: so take a music file which is MUCH longer, or put it on a repeat
06:58<@Darkvater>Zuu: you need some way of showing the active window for shortcuts that are active in
06:58<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: not concatting; overlaying :)
06:58<TrueBrain>well, ffmpeg (or mencoder, the latter uses ffmpeg) allows a lot :)
06:59<@Darkvater>I wonder :)
06:59<@Darkvater>I used adobe premiere last time
06:59<Zuu>Darkvater: Yes, if one wants to expand the focus stuff more, then more visual feedback is needed.
06:59<@Darkvater>most likely only ffdshow people will be able to play the movie now though...
07:00<@Darkvater>Zuu: yep..I was thinking windows style :) some slightly differently hued caption bar on the inactive windows
07:00<@Darkvater>Zuu: with that your patch would be complete
07:00<@Darkvater>and I can bug someone else about implementing user-defined keyboard shortcts
07:01<Zuu>Well, there is still the issue that if you close a window no other window overtake the global focus.
07:01<planetmaker>There exists even some patch to do that... in a fashion; not sure about its quality
07:01<Zuu>st256 made a patch for configurable hotkeys
07:01<Zuu>it is in the development section of the forums.
07:01<@Darkvater>Zuu: are you sure? cause windows are "stacked" on top of eachother so the one on top is active
07:02<@Darkvater>Zuu: if I'm not mistaken it still works taht way. the keygrabber just iterates over your windows stack selecting the first window that handles that key
07:02<@Darkvater>fucking hell, what's up with this lag....
07:02<@Darkvater>oh, it's me :P
07:03<Zuu>The reasons I have heard for why there is no way to close the topmost window is that OpenTTD don't keep the windows stored in complete up-to-down structure. But I could be wrong.
07:03<@Darkvater>unless it's been completely changed it was a Window*[] array
07:03<@Darkvater>the hotkey patch was something wrong ith
07:04<Zuu>Iterating over windows is a pre-defined order if I recall correctly. That is why OSK behves slightly different when opened from the chat message window compared to opened from any other edit box window.
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07:04<Zuu>But I need to go now and have a battle against Excel :)
07:04<@Darkvater>Zuu: pre-defined: top-down starting with most recenly opened, or activated one
07:04<@Darkvater>I think :P
07:07<Alberth>Darkvater, Zuu: Source code suggests first the focussed window, then front-back for key handling
07:07<@Darkvater>isn't that what I said?
07:08<Zuu>focused window is _focused_window pointer though
07:08<Zuu>And is not always the top-most window.
07:08<@Darkvater>but that is, or then was top-most
07:09<Alberth>Darkvater: As for Window*[], it is gone :) , we now have 2 lists, one from front to back, and one from back to front
07:09<@Darkvater>though I read some changelog that window handling was changed to allowmore than some fixed number
07:09<Zuu>I'm gone now for a few hours...
07:09<@Darkvater>Alberth: array or linked list?
07:09<@Darkvater>seems wasteful ;)
07:09<@Darkvater>by Zuu
07:10<Alberth>Darkvater: two lists: http://paste.openttd.org/179696
07:10<planetmaker>bye, Zuu
07:11*Darkvater doesn't say anything
07:11<Alberth>we probably need to back-to-front for removing 'old' ones
07:11<@Darkvater>(but he cannot see the advantages of double-bookkeeping whilc you can just iterate the other way)
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>what speaks against using "std"-types like a queue for windows?
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07:13<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I once made a patch for that, but it was refused. One of the devs wanted to keep Window* for iterating iirc
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07:14<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: I'll see if it's possible to add moving watermarks to a video through ffmpeg..or at least a different png every frame
07:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I *think* it was refused due to memory overhead. But not sure
07:14<TrueBrain>Darkvater: if you like :) I mean, it might be nice and cool to have, but not really something we should have ;)
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of significant memory overhead can one queue have over two lists?
07:15<planetmaker>I've no idea :)
07:15<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: it's pretty useless withouth; any non-dev won't be able to tell tail from head of the video
07:16<TrueBrain>Darkvater: I meant the movie in general :)
07:16<TrueBrain>hmm .. forgetting a 'break' in a switch can have nasty side-effects ...
07:16<Alberth>To quote the reasons: "... this change does NOT: simplify code, make faster ot smaller binary, improve readability"
07:17<Alberth>TrueBrain: yeah, like reaching the 'default: NOT_REACHED();' :)
07:18<@Darkvater>we should use BOOST_FOREACH ;)
07:18<TrueBrain>Darkvater: I rather die :p
07:18<@Darkvater>haha
07:19<@Darkvater>I looked at the preprocessed output of the BOOST_FOREACH macro and it was 3000 lines of code
07:19<@Darkvater>eh, I mean a single line of code but 3000 characters long
07:19<TrueBrain>it is insane to want to use that in C++ ....
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
07:20<@Darkvater>I'd much rather use BOOST_FOREACH(mylist::reference, list) than for(mylist::iterator i = list.begin(); i != list.end(); i++) {element &el = *i)
07:20*Darkvater can't wait till C0x
07:21*el_en wonders if it'll be C++0x or C++1x
07:21<TrueBrain>Darkvater: if that was all it does ... you could write your own macro for that to ;)
07:21<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: but it's smarter :)
07:21<TrueBrain>Darkvater: the BOOST framework is nice .. but their templates are WAY too deep .......
07:21<@Darkvater>it can handle fixed arrays, etc.
07:21<@Darkvater>TrueBrain: defintely agree
07:22<TrueBrain>so one function to rule them all ;)
07:22<@Darkvater>some idiot at work decided to boost the whole application while I was porting it to the GPU
07:22<TrueBrain>I rather have 10 functions to rule a few of them :p
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07:22<@Darkvater>had to transcode all 'em fcking boost functions to get it to work
07:22<@Darkvater>I hate, but admire boost :)
07:23<TrueBrain>the idea is nice
07:23<@Darkvater>eey
07:23<@Darkvater>[alton]cnicol1: ./ffmpeg -i ~/groupjast/secondlife/SL8/SL8/SL8.mpg
07:23<@Darkvater>> -vhook 'vhook/watermark.so -f
07:23<@Darkvater>> ~/groupjast/secondlife/SL8/SL8/SL8.eyetest.mpg' -an SL8.merged.mpg
07:23<@Darkvater>it seems it's possible :)
07:23<TrueBrain>so go for it :)
07:23<@Darkvater>I think
07:23<@Darkvater>no time atm
07:24<@Darkvater>todo.push_back(video);
07:24<TrueBrain>you use a fifo for that?
07:24<TrueBrain>sounds like terrible way of doing things. ...
07:25<@Darkvater>this way I only see the first task and not get depressed by everything that's behind
07:25<@Darkvater>my .size() function is private :P
07:25<TrueBrain>other queues have a top() and peek() too you know ;)
07:25<@Darkvater>'tis a custom fifo
07:25<TrueBrain>without priorities? :)
07:25<TrueBrain>so random orderning :p
07:25<@Darkvater>yes
07:25<TrueBrain>oh well, I guess we can use an other Bjarni in this project :p
07:25<TrueBrain>(oh, that is nasty :p)
07:26*TrueBrain hugs Darkvater :p
07:26<@Darkvater>*g*
07:26<@Darkvater>http://cod.spieleplanet.eu/images/openttd.png << we should make a movie of this :)
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07:27<TrueBrain>Darkvater: yup, we could :)
07:27<TrueBrain>start collecting the pngs :p
07:28-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
07:28*Darkvater assigns Mucht to the task
07:28<@Darkvater>fear my @
07:28<@Darkvater>^_^'
07:29<@Darkvater>kkies, be back soon :)
07:37<TrueBrain>how do you call a collection of encoders and decoders?
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07:39<Alberth>codecs?
07:40<TrueBrain>I guess .. just calling bzip a codec sounds weird
07:40<TrueBrain>well .. not really an encoder too I guess
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause>in my experience, making movies of simple graphs as these is difficult, because if the graphs are created independently, the nodes tend to jump all around the place
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>if you want to make the movie more smoothly, you need a way to have the nodes have an affinity to their position in the previous graph
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08:00<Elukka>strange
08:00<Elukka>the game actually crashed
08:02<Gekz_>TrueBrain: compressor/decompresso
08:04*Darkvater conjures Celestar
08:04<@Darkvater>finish cargodest dammit
08:08<planetmaker>I'm for swedish cargodest :P
08:10<Aali>swedish cargodest? shitty railway on a map thats so small a bus can scale it in a day? :P
08:10<@Rubidium>bork?
08:10<@Rubidium>or rather borked?
08:10<kingj>Cargodest is mental on huge maps
08:11<planetmaker>hehe :)
08:12<Elukka>cargodest is a beautiful thing
08:13<@Rubidium>with a beautifully long list of issues and bugs
08:13<planetmaker>:P
08:14<Elukka>meh, i havent ran into anything gamebreaking
08:24<kingj>I've not run into any bugs, but I can't figure out how some things make a Cost
08:24<kingj>It really does make parts of the network crumble though, 15k passengers at a single station, hmm
08:24<Elukka>heh, you really have to make sure all your connections work
08:25<kingj>Yeah
08:26<kingj>It makes the game a lot more fun, since you actually have an incentive to connect every town, and not just make some huge A to B line
08:26<Aali>whats the incentive to connect every town?
08:27<Aali>the huge A to B line will still work just as well
08:27<kingj>Maximun passengers
08:27<Aali>no
08:27<Aali>you still get the same amount of passengers
08:27<kingj>Well, cargopax seems to give me more of an incentive to connect everything rather than just have a few huge A-B lines
08:28<Elukka>do you actually get the same amount of passengers?
08:28<Aali>yes
08:28<Aali>cargodest does not affect cargo generation at all
08:29<Aali>if there's only one possible destination, you'll get a billion passengers wanting to go there, no matter how small or far away it may be
08:30<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> I'm for swedish cargodest :P <- "some assembly required"?
08:30<Elukka>A-B is boring, though :P
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09:34<kingj>Is there something in Cargopax (or the build it's based off) that makes towns adverse to building level crossings?
09:35<@Rubidium>signals? diagonal rail?
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09:56<Elukka>you could build them yourself if the town doesnt wanr ro
09:56<Elukka>want to*
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09:59<kingj>In the entire map, there is not a single town built level crossing
10:00<Elukka>well, that's weird
10:00<kingj>I'm not complaining however, it means I can build safe track crossings rather than watch my road vehicles get murdered by town civil engineering excellence
10:00<Elukka>i remember there was a level crossings on diagonal tracks patch once.. it was handy
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10:55<Roest>hmm does anyone understand michi's advanced pbs signals?
10:55<Aali>advance signals
10:55<Roest>yes those
10:55<Elukka>no, but i like how that sounds :P
10:55<Elukka>what are they?
10:56<Aali>basically, for every advance signal, the train will try to reserve one additional PBS segment
10:56<Elukka>ah
10:57<Elukka>...what's the point?
10:57<+glx>it's similar to yellow signal IRL IIRC
10:57<Aali>you can build priorities and stuff
10:57<Elukka>right
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>in the long term, trains should slow down when such a reservation fails
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>in order to avoid stopping at every red signal, when the train ahead is slower
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11:14<Roest>ok the this new the signals show up in the signal menu but on the track i get red question marks
11:15<Roest>and yes i have the adv_signals.grf
11:17<Elukka>is it just me, or did planes use to slow down a lot more near airports?
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11:44<OsteHovel^EEE>i got the nightly to crash widout meaning it...
11:45<OsteHovel^EEE>*svn
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11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>i have a server at home that running dedicated server(svn dl'ed 3 houres ago, and compiled myself with SDL, Allegro, Network, everything) and runned it with openttd -D, then i have my laptop connected to internet via my PDA at EDGE speed(256kbit/s) and i connected to the server and it crashed with this messaage:
11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>i have a server at home that running dedicated server(builded with
11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>*ops
11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>Error: [net] Trying to execute a packet in the past!
11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>openttd: /home/ostehovel/openttd/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:115: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
11:46<OsteHovel^EEE>Aborted
11:47<OsteHovel^EEE>trying to recreate
11:48<OsteHovel^EEE>I cant recreate it...
11:56<OsteHovel^EEE>hmm
11:57<Zuu>Hello, thats indeed strange :)
11:58<OsteHovel^EEE>feature that dosent work(bug?) if i go into patches settings and go to: Interfaces -> Interaction -> Function of scrollwheel and if i set that to "Scroll Map", and try to scroll the map with the mousewheel it dosent work...
11:58<OsteHovel^EEE>but the zoom-mousewheel works if i set the settings to zoom insted of scroll map
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12:01<Zuu>No idea, since I can't zoom in with my keyboard I always use the zoom functionality of the scroolwheel.
12:04<OsteHovel^EEE>i got a eee 901 that has support for Two-Finger on the mousepad is the same as scrollwheel
12:04<OsteHovel^EEE>but hold right-click + move the mouse works fine too...
12:10<planetmaker>[17:57] <Roest> [17:15:05] and yes i have the adv_signals.grf <-- you have to activate it via newgrf menu
12:10<planetmaker>and they make even more sense with the slow-down patch hack
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12:23<Elukka>hmm
12:23<Elukka>does PBI have limited amounts of stuff in mines?
12:24<Sacro>yes
12:27<Elukka>aww, and no parameter to disable it either
12:27<Elukka>the wiki page says they are an "unmodified ttd industry"
12:29<Elukka>well, guess i could go back to the old grf
12:29<Elukka>it doesnt have some pretty graphics though
12:30<Ammler>old grf?
12:31<Elukka>uk renewal industries
12:31<Elukka>i just cant be bothered to build elaborate track systems to service industries that are guaranteed to close
12:35<Elukka>hmm... apparently this feature isnt in older versions of pbi, i wonder if i can find one somewhere
12:38<Elukka>i wonder if i'm going to lose a ton of other features by going back to an old version /:
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12:40<@Rubidium>hmm, isn't scrollwheel scrolling mightymouse only?
12:42<@Rubidium>or is that something else altogether?
12:42<Elukka>meh, i'll just use UKRSI
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13:12*davis- hi
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13:51<lanaiya>hi, kann mir jemand mal schnell erklären was die bedingungen für das anbauen eines bahnhofes an einen flughafen sind. im online game sehe ich immer welche die mit bushaltestellen vom flughafen weg und dann dicke bahnhöfe dran bauen. das geht bei mir aber nicht. ich bekomme als die meldung bahnhof zu groß??
13:52<+glx>english only please
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13:53<frosch123>increase "station spread" in advanced settings
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>lanaiya: you want to increase the station spread setting in the advanced settings
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13:55<lanaiya>ok thank you
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14:57<Roest>hey dihedral
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15:09<dihedral>sup roboboy
15:09<dihedral>ops
15:09<dihedral>Roest :-P
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15:20<Roest>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41222&start=40 last post :)
15:21-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75115.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22<dihedral>post before last "Evern my g/f likes it"
15:23<dihedral>cute
15:23<dihedral>oh my
15:23<dihedral>i'd kick him from my server if he joins and starts talking about it :-P
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15:24<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=764884#p764884 <- where is he?
15:25<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
15:25<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
15:25<dihedral>....
15:25<dihedral>that is cheating
15:26<@Rubidium>g/f = gayfriend?
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15:32<dihedral>g/f = x ; g = f*x; g/x = f; x = f*g...........
15:32<dihedral>something went wrong
15:32<dihedral>:-P
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16:11<el_en>@seen MeusH
16:11<@DorpsGek>el_en: MeusH was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <meush> but that would be called by TV "bringing peace"
16:13<Roest>advance signals are pretty cool
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16:22<Zuu>Hmm, copying 10 GB from one partion to another on the same USB1 connected disk takes time... :-)
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>why the hell would you connect a disk with USB1?
16:22<Zuu>Because my laptop don't has USB2
16:22-!-kd5pbo|work [~kd5pbo@136.242.113.110] has quit []
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>i can has usb3?
16:23<Zuu>Sure, but I havn't used external disks very much before, so I haven't seen much reason to buy a USB2 PCMCIA card.
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16:26<dihedral>Zuu, then you should use firewire ;-)
16:26<@Rubidium>firewire is no more
16:27<Zuu>dihedral: I would love to use that if it wasn't that expanisve.. .)
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16:49<db48x>flyspray is odd
16:50<Wolf01>'night
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16:52<db48x>not necessarily more odd than other bug trackers I've used, but odd
16:53<Yexo>db48x: in newgrf_industries.cpp there already is a function GetClosestWaterDistance, maybe you can use that one instead of copying it
16:53<Yexo>openttd uses tabs, not spaces to indent lines
16:53<db48x>mmm
16:54<Yexo>if (a) { <- the { should be on the same line after an if/for/while, on the next line for a function/class
16:54<Yexo>when using multiline comment, prepend each line with '*', not just the first one
16:54<Zuu>and there should be a space between if and (, which I always forget :-p
16:55<Yexo>and when using an else, always use { and }
16:55<db48x>heh, GetClosestWaterDistance doesn't reuse CircularTileSearch
16:55<db48x>though perhaps the latter is the newer function
16:55<db48x>yea, tabs :(
16:55<db48x>do you guys mind if I add emacs mode lines to the files I edit?
16:55<db48x>that way I can turn on tabs just for these files
16:56<Yexo>as long as you remove them again before uploading your patch nobody cares
16:56<Yexo>just add those lines, create a patch of them, so after editing you can remove them with patch -R
16:56<db48x>that's even worse
16:56<Roest>life sucks
16:57<db48x>I guess I can hack my .emacs to have different defaults when the file is in this directory…
16:59<Yexo>heh, GetClosestWaterDistance doesn't reuse CircularTileSearch <- Right, maybe GetClosestWaterDistance should be rewritten
17:00<Yexo>dunno really
17:00<db48x>also, it's not in the header, so…
17:00<db48x>is there a good place to move it?
17:00<db48x>it's not like the function is specific to either industries or towns
17:00<Yexo>map.cpp/map.h
17:00<db48x>ok
17:01<Yexo>map_func.h to be precise
17:03<Yexo>SmatZ: any particular reason GetClosestWaterDistance is not already using CircularTileSearch?
17:04<Yexo>db48x: please set reported version to trunk next time
17:04<db48x>Yexo: yea
17:06-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1-re1.dk.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
17:07<@Rubidium>Yexo: because the former predates the latter?
17:07-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75C16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:09<Yexo>Rubidium: CircularTileSearch was updated in r13632, while SmatZ has rewritten GetClosestWaterDistance in r14417
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17:11<@Rubidium>ah...
17:12<@Rubidium>CircularTileSearch searches [], GetClosestWaterDistance <>
17:13<@petern>technical description
17:14<@Rubidium>the latter searches with increasing DistanceManhattan, which is useful when you're searching for the closest manhattan distance wise
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>so call them CircularSearchManhattan and CircularSearchMax?
17:20<Yexo>that explains it, thanks Rubidium
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17:23<SmatZ>[23:03:24] <Yexo> SmatZ: any particular reason GetClosestWaterDistance is not already using CircularTileSearch? <== performance
17:23<SmatZ>searching 512x512 tiles isn't desired
17:25<db48x>CircularTileSearch does take a max "radius"
17:25<db48x>which is really the length of the side of the box it searches, not the radius
17:26<SmatZ>ok, I had a look at CircularTileSearch :)
17:26<SmatZ>... and back to the bed ...
17:27<db48x>we could replace the guts of CircularTileSearch with most of GetClosestWaterDistance, and make the latter call the former
17:27<db48x>the callers of CircularTileSearch wouldn't know the difference
17:28<db48x>but I'll let someone else do that
17:28<SmatZ>sorry, to sleepy to think :-x
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17:29<@Rubidium>db48x: actually, people will find the difference
17:29<@Rubidium>cause subsidies will then only work in about half the area it does now
17:31-!-Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:31<db48x>heh
17:32<db48x>oops, forgot a semicolon
17:33<db48x>at the very end of a header too
17:33-!-Eoin [Eoin@92-233-181-117.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:33<Eoin>ANyone here used ECS vectors?
17:35<el_en>No, but interestingly IMDb says that Christopher Lee speaks fluent German and good French.
17:35<dihedral>Eoin, if you say what's on your mind we are more able to help you
17:35<Eoin>well
17:35<Eoin>what makes money
17:35<@Rubidium>I think George might've used ECS vectors at least once ;)
17:35-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
17:35<Eoin>har har Rubidium :P
17:35<dihedral>Rubidium, lol
17:36<Eoin>ive done Sand+Lime > Cement works, Cement > Construction industry
17:36<Eoin>but i didnt earn anything for any of the stages
17:36<Yexo>Eoin: are you using a nighlty between r14383 and 15494 (included)? If so, please update
17:36<Eoin>15480
17:36<dihedral>update :-P
17:36<dihedral>just in case
17:37<Yexo>that bug was fixed in 15495
17:37<Eoin>oh lol
17:37<db48x>heh
17:37<Eoin>i got the nightly today, obviously before 95
17:37<Yexo>why does that bug go unnoticed for more than a week, and suddenly 3 reports within 24 hours?
17:37<Eoin>lol
17:38<@Rubidium>Yexo: standard user behaviour
17:39<Eoin>ive never tried the vectors till now
17:39<Eoin>dont shoot the messenger :)
17:39<Yexo>Eoin: nothing against you, it's good that you report it :)
17:39<Eoin>lo
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17:40<Roest>hmm 12k passengers waiting in a town of 16k, guess they don't like it there very much
17:42<Ammler>Roest: or they like the town very much, many villages have around double tourists then habbitants
17:44<kd5pbo|work>When's the next stable release coming out?
17:44-!-lhrios [~luis@20158000146.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:44<Yexo>kd5pbo|work: most likely this year
17:44<el_en>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfnsnTuY0M (1:20 ->)
17:44-!-lhrios [~luis@20158000146.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #openttd
17:45<@Rubidium>together with the next stable of Debian?
17:45<Roest>^^
17:46<Roest>the institute i work for has a very conservative IT boss, we still use debian 3.5 there :(
17:46<@petern>really
17:46<@petern>as there's no such thing...
17:46<dihedral>Yexo, love you answer
17:47<Roest>petern ?
17:47<@petern>"this year" is far too specific
17:47<Yexo>petern: that's why I added "most likely" :p
17:47<dihedral>petern, "not in the near future" ?
17:48<Prof_Frink>petern: What about our old friend "When it's done"?
17:48<@petern>Roest: "3.5"
17:48<@petern>Prof_Frink: that's highly unlikely
17:48<welshdragon>where can i find r15480?
17:48<Roest>isnt etch 3.5?
17:48<@petern>no
17:48<kd5pbo|work>Reason I ask is servers online seem to be using the latest stable version.
17:49<Prof_Frink>petern: How about "When we can be bothered"?
17:49<Roest>umm
17:49<@petern>possibly
17:49*welshdragon feels ignored
17:50<welshdragon>where can i find r15480?
17:50<dihedral>kd5pbo|work, and you expect all of them to run 0.7 once it's out?
17:50<Roest>on the svn
17:50<dihedral>welshdragon, binaries.openttd.org
17:50<welshdragon>thank you dihedral
17:50<kd5pbo|work>Well, I'd expect some of them would change.
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17:51<Roest>petern ok my bad :) though it's still really effing old
17:52<@petern>anyway
17:52<@petern>it's that current stable release
17:52<@petern>that's why people use it
17:52<@petern>well
17:52<@petern>parse that as something that parses
17:52<dihedral>kd5pbo|work, you could just as well play some nightly
17:53<kd5pbo|work>I could.
17:53<kd5pbo|work>Then I'd have to update every day.
17:53<Roest>well stable...
17:54<dihedral>kd5pbo|work, you would not have to update every day
17:54<dihedral>you dont have to play the latest nightly everyday
17:54<kd5pbo|work>Well, what do servers typically run?
17:54<dihedral>in fact - i personally would welcome you not playing the latest nightly online every day
17:54-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
17:55*Roest plays the latest nightly every day and night
17:55<dihedral>kd5pbo|work, servers.openttd.org
17:55<dihedral>Roest, just not online ;-)
17:56<kd5pbo|work>Mixed bag.
17:56<kd5pbo|work>h3b244a8f <-- What's this version?
17:56<Yexo>kd5pbo|work: looks like an hg version
17:56<Yexo>using cargodest?
17:57<kd5pbo|work>What's an hg version?
17:57<Roest>btw dihedral one of your arguments against copy&paste is wrong, my crossings and station entries went through some evolution this game
17:57<Yexo>hg=mercurial, a version control system, just like svn/cvs/git
17:57<dihedral>http://letmegooglethatforyou/?q=hg+version
17:58<dihedral>ops
17:58<dihedral>+ .com :-P
17:58<Yexo>dihedral: your link works here
17:58<dihedral>HAHA
17:59<dihedral>awesome
17:59<Yexo>it redirects to http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hg+version for some reason
17:59<dihedral>Roest, and how often does that happen
18:02<Roest>well whenever i feel the need to improve them, but then i can use them everywhere fast
18:02-!-kd5pbo|work [~kd5pbo@136.242.113.110] has quit [Quit: kd5pbo|work]
18:03<@Rubidium>oh, you mean you start a game, then build 4 2x4x64 size stations with entrances using copy-paste? and start running a few trains between them?
18:03<dihedral>thank you - you just underlined at least one of the arguments Roest
18:03<dihedral>Rubidium, define 'build'
18:04<@Rubidium>click, click, click, click?
18:04<Roest>rubidium not exactly but if i would have fun that way why would you mind?
18:04<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/Unnamed,%201st%20Jan%201950%233.png
18:04<@Rubidium>or click, click, click, drag
18:04<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/Unnamed,%201st%20Jan%201950%235.png
18:04<db48x>turns out pretty well
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18:04<dihedral>Rubidium, let me be more specific: "paste"
18:05<Roest>so you say only if i build everything with single clicks that would be the RIGHT way to play the game?
18:05<dihedral>no
18:05<db48x>building track is so much more fun that way
18:06<dihedral>i say you dont improve if you only ever paste
18:07<Roest>and why do i need to improve? if i enjoy the game, i mean isn't that what games should be for?
18:07<dihedral>i say your networks always look the same
18:07<db48x>perhaps you should instead say that if a player only ever pastes stuff other people have copied, he will never be fored to reason out why a feature was built a certain way, and thus will not be forced to grow intellectually and spiritually
18:07<dihedral>.....
18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>have i mentioned that no two stations of me look the same?#
18:07<dihedral>same here
18:08<@Rubidium>ah well, the patch is pretty self explanatory as to why that incarnation won't get into trunk
18:08<Roest>so what, let them look the same, it's my game
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18:09<Roest>and nobody really forces you to use it anyway
18:09<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:10<dihedral>Roest, i never said that i was gonna hinder you using it, did i?
18:10<dihedral>i only ever pointed out what the consequences are
18:13<welshdragon>where does the nightly save grf files?
18:13<dihedral>....
18:13<dihedral>did you look?
18:14<welshdragon>no :P
18:14<dihedral>then have a look
18:14<Sacro>'tard
18:14<dihedral>^^
18:14<Roest>i guess if c&p is such a bad thing already you'd like the scenario i play, it's totally flat ^^
18:14<Eoin>C:\My Documents\OpenTTD\content_download\data
18:14<Eoin>wrong channel :(
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18:18<dihedral>night
18:18<Roest>night
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18:26<db48x>Yexo: I uploaded a new patch. Can you think of there anything else I should do?
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18:27<Yexo>db48x: remove the CmdPlaceSign usage in town_cmd.cpp
18:27<Yexo>ie debug things are fine, but remove them before submitting a patch
18:27<Yexo>struct spot_data { TileIndex tile; uint max; uint radius; };
18:27<Yexo> <- that should be on multiple lines
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18:29<Yexo>db48x: if you continue an if statement on a second line, use two tabs extra indenting
18:29<db48x>oops, forgot about debug
18:30<Yexo>+ the nearest likely-looking spot */
18:30<Yexo> <- you forgot the * prefix there
18:30<Yexo>and on those lines you're still using spaces insetad of tabs
18:30<SmatZ>that patch fails to conform the coding style almost at every line it adds
18:30<Yexo> <- Why do you move that comment?
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18:30<Yexo> /* Get a unique name for the town. */
18:30<Yexo> <- that one
18:32<Yexo>FindNearestFlatLand <- the implementation of that function is obviously wrong
18:32<db48x>oh?
18:32<Yexo>return IsTileType(tile, MP_CLEAR); <- Did you seriously think that was a correct implementation?
18:33<db48x>yep
18:33<db48x>what did I misunderstand?
18:33<Yexo>sorry, my mistake
18:33<db48x>ok
18:33<Yexo>I suggest to change the function name though
18:33<Yexo>it's a bit confusing now
18:34<db48x>how so?
18:34<Yexo>if you don't know it's a callback for CircularTileSearch the implementation looks wrong
18:34<db48x>maybe Flat -> Empty
18:34<db48x>oh
18:35<Yexo>comments for function generally go in the cpp file, not in the header file
18:35<db48x>callback_FindFlatLand?
18:35<db48x>predicate_FlatLand?
18:35<Yexo>as long as it isn't used in other functions I'd move it to town_cmd.cpp, near where it's used
18:35<db48x>ok
18:36<Yexo>so just above FindNearestGoodCoastalTownSpot
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18:38<db48x>as for moving that comment, I don't recall why I did
18:38<db48x>I guess it looked better there
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18:39<db48x>that's one of my bad habits I try to supress
18:41<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/coastal-5.diff
18:41<db48x>good?
18:41<db48x>better, but still horribly wrong? ;)
18:41<Yexo>+ uint max;
18:41<Yexo> <- max what?\
18:41<Yexo>give your variables clear names
18:41<Yexo>max_distance would be more clear, but I'm not sure that's what you mean
18:42<SmatZ>Yexo: there should be comments for that ;)
18:42<Yexo>SmatZ: true, but "max"?
18:42<Yexo>as local variable I can undertand that, but in a script it's too vague for me
18:42<Yexo>s/script/struct/
18:42<db48x>fair enough
18:43<db48x>max_dist_found_so_far good?
18:43<SmatZ>actually, I am a friend of short variable names when they are properly commented, but I don't enforce anyone to that :)
18:44<SmatZ>what I find more disturbing is still broken whitespaces, ignoring comment style, struct naming / declaration style
18:44<SmatZ>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Coding_style db48x you might find this useful
18:45<db48x>I don't find things like the type of whitespace or comments disturbing
18:45<Yexo>db48x: the two tabs after the if were for the other lines, so if (a && (newline, two tabs) b) { (newline, one tab) something;
18:45<db48x>though if you're using doxygen, the comment style can be important
18:45<db48x>lol
18:45<Yexo>db48x: then fortunatly it's not up to you which patches get included and which don't
18:46<Yexo>without a consistent style the code gets messy real quick
18:46<welshdragon>how can a server adnin delete a company?
18:46<db48x>I dunno about that, but I can adjust
18:47-!-Roest [~schurade@p54B9F6EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
18:48<db48x>or at least I can adjust my .emacs
18:48<Yexo>welshdragon: did you try "reset_company <company_id>" from the console?
18:50<Eoin>he needed it for me
18:51<Eoin>and i figured it out from list_cmds
18:51<Yexo>good :)
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18:56<db48x>Yexo: is there anything else that needs remediation?
18:56<Yexo>db48x: did you read the link SmatZ gave you about coding style?
18:57<db48x>about half of it
18:57-!-lhrios [~luis@20158000146.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:57<db48x>I'll get back to the bit about enums later
18:57<Yexo>read that, fix the issues you can find and then post a new patch
18:58<Yexo>FindNearestFlatLand <- can you rename that to FindNearestLand? it doesn't look for flat land
19:00<db48x>yea, I changed Flat to Empty
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19:10<db48x>Yexo: how's that?
19:11<Yexo>struct spot_data
19:11<Yexo> <- structs should have capitalized names, without _
19:11<Yexo>so SpotData
19:11<Yexo>and imo SpotData doesn't tell what it's used for
19:12<Yexo>you only use radius once, and you never change it
19:12<Yexo>please make it a constant instead
19:12<Yexo>+ * @author db48x
19:12<Yexo> <- we don't use that in openttd
19:13<db48x>it's in the coding style page :)
19:14<Yexo>not anymore ;)
19:14<db48x>heh
19:14<db48x>hmm
19:15<db48x>I put the radius in the struct because otherwise I would need two constants that would have to be kept in sync
19:15<Yexo>why?
19:16<db48x>well, actually I don't any more
19:16<Yexo>radius is only used once as far as I can see
19:16<db48x>yea, now that I'm using GetClosestWaterDistance
19:17-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
19:17<db48x>before, I was limiting that search for water to the original radius, because I know that the water can never be further away than that
19:17<Yexo>I've added an example for multiline if-statements here: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Coding_style#Control_flow
19:18<Yexo>use tabs instead of spaces, but that's not possible on the wiki
19:18<db48x>of course
19:18<Yexo>hmm, you already did that one correct I see now
19:18<Yexo>+ return false;
19:18<Yexo> <- still spaces
19:19<db48x>mmm
19:20<db48x>well, I must run
19:21<db48x>thank you for your help
19:21<Yexo>+ /* if we get here, all we can do is give up and return the original tile */
19:21<Yexo> <- shouldn't you return INVALID_TILE instead?
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19:21<db48x>mmm, perhaps
19:21<Yexo>+ * always a possibility <- next lines uses spaces instead of tabs
19:21<db48x>I believe I just fixed that
19:21<Yexo>and that */ should be on the same line, not on a new one
19:22<Yexo>if (t->population > 0) { <- that lines, and the lines below it, I'd replace that with:
19:22<Yexo>if (t->population > 0) return t;
19:22<Yexo>delete t;
19:22<db48x>fair enough
19:23<db48x>ok, I really have to go.
19:23<Yexo>this apparently didn't happen very often before, but it was
19:23<Yexo> <- that comment shouldn't be in the source code, can you image anyone reading the code in about a year? (what is "before" at that time?)
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20:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15496 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: one division less in the train acceleration code
20:58<el_en>will it accelerate faster now?
20:59<SmatZ>el_en: the affects only train braking...
21:00<SmatZ>it doesn't change anything
21:07<el_en>roger
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21:18<JdGordon>is it still expceted to see black squares in the open replacement graphics set?
21:26<Yexo>yes, it is
21:28<welshdragon>question: can player 1 build a station next to (joining) player 2's?
21:28<Yexo>yes, by holding ctrl when you build the station
21:28<Yexo>it won't be the same station though
21:28<welshdragon>that's fine
21:30<welshdragon>now i can't get the signal gui :(
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21:45<DarkED>hi all
21:47<DarkED>i'm having a problem hosting an openttd server. i've configured my router to pass thru tcp/udp ports 3979 but it doesn't seem to be working. if i set my router to DMZ mode it works, but then I can't use any other computers on my network so that's only a temporary fix
21:49<DarkED>am i missing some ports or something?
21:49<Aali>nope
21:49<DarkED>hmm :(
21:55<DarkED>does openttd use ICMP for anything?
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21:58<DarkED>hah yay for disconnects
22:06<Tefad>you didn't miss anything.
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22:46<welshdragon>what other programs can edit .cfg files?
22:46<Yexo>did you try any text editor?
22:47<welshdragon>....no :P
22:47<welshdragon>stupid me :P
22:50<welshdragon>oh thank fook, i can see the signal gui now :)
22:51<DarkED>signal GUI owns :D
22:52<DarkED>probably the most useful tool i've ... used
22:54<Yexo>welshdragon: you could also have enabled that option via the gui :0
22:55<Yexo>advanced settings->construction->signals->Enable the signal gui
22:55<welshdragon>Yexo: i couldn't see that
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23:00<welshdragon>hmm, do i go to sleep............
23:00<welshdragon>it is 4:00 am
23:01<welshdragon>and i have a lecture in 4 hourd
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23:12<JdGordon>I just tried trams for the first time and they dont run as I woul have expeted.... do I have to put loops at the end of each "line" for then to turn around and not go wandering?
23:20<Ailure>guys
23:20<Ailure>oops
23:20<Ailure>wrong channel
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23:41<flowOver>woo i finally compiled a patched copy of my own. i guess thats the beauty of open source :D eeee i'm like a kid who just got a wii
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 16 00:00:23 2009