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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-17

---Logopened Tue Feb 17 00:00:28 2009
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03:00<planetmaker>morning
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03:07<db48x>hello planetmaker
03:07<planetmaker>hey db48x
03:07<planetmaker>how's your sea-side towns going? :)
03:11-!-nfc [nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
03:11<db48x>well, I think
03:11-!-Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
03:11<planetmaker>:) nice to hear
03:11<db48x>yexo schooled me in the intricate arts of the openttd coding style
03:12<db48x>plus suggested an existing function that I could avoid rewriting
03:12<db48x>which seemed like a plus
03:14<Timitry>The standard Town-Road-Layout was changed from "Better Roads" back to "Original"? Why is that?
03:14<Timitry>Or did i misread that?
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03:30<db48x>Timitry: yea, looks like it
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03:32<dihedral>morning
03:33<db48x>howdy
03:33<dihedral>how dih? dih good!
03:34<db48x>:)
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03:43<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41882 <- crap
03:45<@petern>probably done something wrong
03:46<db48x>or 10.3.9 isn't supported any more (although if that's the case then it may have been inadvertant)
03:47<dihedral>10.3.9 afaik is supported... kinda
03:47<dihedral>at least the universal binary is supposed to work on 10.3.9 - 10.5.x
03:48<dihedral>petern, looks more like an 10.3.9 issue, rather than 'layer 8'
03:49<db48x>I think I shall accquire a hamburger
03:51<dihedral>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quartz.mm#L384 and http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quartz.mm#L403
03:53<Eddi|zuHause>it's been 100 years since a mister McDonald from New Hampshire introduced the hamburger
03:54<dihedral>heh - those lines are ancient :-P
03:55<dihedral>@openttd commit 11498
03:55<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Commit by egladil :: r11498 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2007-11-23 02:44:05 UTC)
03:55<@DorpsGek>dihedral: -Add [FS#1411]: [OSX] Added support for using Quartz instead of Quickdraw in windowed mode on OS X 10.4 and higher. Based on a patch by blackis.
03:55<dihedral>petern, ^
03:57<dihedral>so since 0.6.0-beta2 nobody played openttd on os x 10.3.9
03:58<dihedral>that is well worth supporting then :-P
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>nobody played prebuilt nightly on 10.3.9
03:58-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:58<dihedral>and no stables for 1.5 years
03:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm...
03:59<Eddi|zuHause>but remember the statement of Bjarni, the first mac release contained hardcoded path, so it could only ever work on his system, but none of the hundred downloaders ever complained that it did not work
04:00<db48x>heh
04:08<@petern>dihedral: is it just a concidence that that is exactly 4000 revisions ago from his 'report'?
04:08<@petern>p.s. i don't care about OS X at all
04:13<dihedral>of course you would not
04:13<dihedral>would not have expected nothing else
04:13<@petern>good
04:13<db48x>Eddi|zuHause: so how was that bug discovered?
04:13<Eddi|zuHause>db48x: i have no idea
04:13<Eddi|zuHause>that was before my time, and i have never had interest in mac
04:14*db48x nods
04:14<db48x>macs are pretty hard to care about
04:15<Eddi|zuHause>well, they are as good a religion as any linux distribution ;)
04:15<db48x>heh
04:15<db48x>or text editor, I suppose
04:16<db48x>I'm in more of a text-editor religion than an os religion
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04:19<dihedral>petern, there are thankfully enough people who do kinda care about os x support ;-)
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>am i dreaming things or did mister-my-computer-is-so-shit-it-crashes-when-playing-youtube-videos say that he overclocked his computer?
04:26<db48x>haha
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04:30<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, :-D
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04:31<dihedral>was that not the kid who said he cannot compile and that someone should abso-fucking-quickly make him a win32 bin?
04:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes
04:31<dihedral>you have a link for the thread
04:31<dihedral>:-D
04:35<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765173#p765173
04:35<@petern>bwahaha
04:36<KingJ>haha
04:39<dihedral>his sig is agressive :-P
04:39<@petern>s/is sig/e/
04:40<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765157#p765157 <- yes - OpenTTD tries to use 3.2 GB memory
04:44<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765434#p765434
04:45<dihedral>that'll make him mad :-D
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05:08<Tefad>that sounds about right dihedral
05:11<SmatZ>ahhhh I have NekoMaster in my "Foes" list, now the thread makes much more sense :-)
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05:12<dihedral>:-D
05:13<dihedral>thank you Skiddles - you made me want .... Skittles
05:13<dihedral>:-(
05:13<SmatZ>:-D
05:13<Skiddles>http://singaporekid.marttila.de/stuff/mspaint/Skiddles.PNG
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05:14<SmatZ>mmmm :)
05:14<Skiddles>http://singaporekid.marttila.de/stuff/gimp/skiddles.png
05:14<SmatZ>nice nice :o)
05:15<SmatZ>:-D
05:15<murr4y>what's skiddles?
05:15<Skiddles>Those pictures? They are a terrible ripoff of the packaging of skittles.
05:15<Scuanor>°grins° can someone please compute how many "sprites" and grfs can be referenced with 32 bit?
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>don't you know skittles?
05:15<murr4y>no :p
05:16<murr4y>hmm are they like m&m's
05:16<Skiddles>They are small bite-sized candies which may contain traces of Singaporekids, it seems.
05:16<Forked>so remind me.. how come that polite person calling himself nekomaster is still allowed on the forum? :p
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>sprite limit is like 4 milliards
05:16<murr4y>mmmm, singaporekids
05:16<Scuanor>forked, well, he doesnt call himself nekRomaster, aye? ;o)
05:17<Forked>refering to the X threads that has been pasted in here that he is active in :)
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05:18<dihedral><Forked> so remind me.. how come that polite person calling himself nekomaster is still allowed on the forum? :p <-- ask orudge
05:18<dihedral>:-P
05:18<Scuanor>Forked: i "just" see it... and agree with you totally
05:19<Forked>I ment to say "enlighten me" rather than "remind me" :-)
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05:19<Forked>dihedral: I try not to bug any admin anywhere :\
05:19<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, 'milliards' ?
05:19<Forked>since I know how annoying users can be :D
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's how the whole world calls them
05:20<dihedral>Forked, in this case it's not about users annoying admins but admins making sure other users are not annoyed by one user
05:20<dihedral>:-P
05:20<Forked>"use the ignore function" :)
05:21<Scuanor>actually, its onyl used in france and germany widely
05:23<Scuanor>Forked, sure, that would work, but only after you "have been" annoyed/abused already
05:23<Forked>also seeing how I do not pay for a service, how can I be demanding anything at all? (like annoying people like myself being removed)
05:24<Scuanor>hm...
05:25<Scuanor>if it is a service, there would no need to demand it, as it is freely ( in this case ) given. service as in "serve" not "be on alert, waiting to be ordered/demanded to act" ?
05:26<Scuanor>you dont go down to the receptionist at the ritz and ask/demand/beg them to clean up your room either, do you? ;o)
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05:29<Eddi|zuHause>"demanding" != "asking kindly"
05:31<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, it's billion ;-)
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, a billion is a million million
05:32<dihedral>(de) miliarde = (en) billion
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, that's why i want to teach you the word ;)
05:32<dihedral>...?
05:32<Gekz>your european numbers are no match for mainstream superior numbers
05:32<@Rubidium>for anything above a million either use SI prefixes or x.y * 10**z
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>.. the bird bird bird... :p
05:33<Scuanor>you cant however ask kindly for a billion dollars, thats just demanding ;o)
05:33<dihedral>no it's not
05:35*Rubidium wonders whether Obama is demanding of asking kindly for that trillion dollars
05:35<dihedral>:-P
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: you just violated your own rule there ;)
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05:37<@Rubidium>true, but I don't care whether it's the "European" or "American" trillion; both are enormous anyways
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05:40<Roujin>morning
05:40<dihedral>oi
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05:41<Roujin>Rubidium: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765450#p765450 <-- hm? I do not fully understand what you mean..
05:41<@Rubidium>Roujin: that's why set the last working version to something before beta1
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05:42<@Rubidium>Roujin: that you the patches could be the precursor of two things
05:42<Roujin>the second being?
05:43<@Rubidium>that's to keep the rumours alive ;)
05:44<Roujin>you like to confuse people, don't you? :P
05:45<dihedral>Roujin, not people, users :-D
05:45<Roujin>would you prefer if I removed my post which is merely stating the obvious? :P
05:46<@petern>Eddi|zuHause: it's "considerably" less than 4,000,000,000
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>640k ought to be enough for anyone
05:47<@petern>Eddi|zuHause: it is limited to 24 bits as the extra bits are used as flags
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>so, 16 million?
05:47<@petern>although only 4 bits currently, so it could be 28 bits wide.
05:47<@petern>yes
05:47<@petern>should be enough :D
05:47<@petern>a bit better than 16 thousand
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>slightly ;)
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>it's only 3 orders of magnitude ;)
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06:12<kasper>hey there
06:13<kasper>im looking for the original Transport Tycoon deluxe maps, Are they available on OpenTTD?
06:13<SmatZ>maps? use the old map generater when generating maps
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>they are on your TTD cd
06:14<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: universal reply ;)
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>i presume he means scenarios ;)
06:14<SmatZ>ahh :)
06:14<kasper>yeah i mean the scenario's :). im using the abandon ware version of TTD, no scenario's included
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>there is no such thing as abandonware
06:14<kasper>i have the cd somewhere... in a logitech case i got with a win95 pc :P.. but where..
06:15<kasper>well, they loose their rights after an X amount of years
06:15<SmatZ>yeah, maybe after 50? :)
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>70 years after the death of the author
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>which excludes practically every computer program ever written
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>considering that computers themselves are hardly 70 years old
06:20<kasper>we just celebrated the big 50 :)
06:21<kasper>but can we download the old scenario;s somewhere?
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>"we" can't
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>they might be out there, but "we" do not know where
06:21<kasper>ah, well.. then I know enough :)
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06:25<Scuanor>nice guy though...
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06:29<KingJ>I've still got my TTD disk, good days
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06:32<KingJ>DOS version of course
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>the dos version is better than the win version anyway
06:36<Roujin_>what's better about it?
06:36<@Rubidium>moar colours
06:37<KingJ>I remember when our win 95 computer broke, and was replaced with a win2k one that didn't work with TTD, I could no longer play pretty much the only game I played, until I found TTDP that was
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06:49<Eddi|zuHause>i played TTO most of the time, i didn't even know of TTD before i found TTDP
06:50<@petern>dos ttd misses some sprites
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>there was something about wrong truck pictures, was that specific to one version?
06:57<@petern>no
07:02<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765462#p765462 <- "i may look ugly" :-P
07:03<Roujin_>rofl
07:03<KingJ>See, my solution to that is magic bulldozer
07:04<KingJ>I even put up warning signs saying "If you build here, you might be demolished in the future", but they just ignored me so they have to face the consequences
07:06<Roujin_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765461#p765461 <--- "we are borg. resistance is futile" :D
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>"our strength is our individuality, you cannot assimilate that"
07:08<planetmaker>[13:06] <Roujin_> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765461#p765461 <--- "we are borg. resistance is futile" :D <--- :D
07:08<planetmaker>he...
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07:16<dihedral>"There's nothing wrong with asking the community a few questions, but perhaps you're overdoing it here!" <- like that one :-P
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07:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15509 /trunk/src/window_gui.h: -Codechange: move definition of some Window methods to class definition
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08:28<smallfly>what do you think of a setting like "max landscape changes per month"? only the server admin can adjust this value. this way, its not possible that anybody joins a server and flattens all the area
08:29<dihedral>this has been a problem for a very long time smallfly
08:30<smallfly>where is the problem?
08:30<dihedral>i remember running 0.5 servers and having players do that
08:30<dihedral>it's a layer 8 issue
08:30<smallfly>ahh ... *nothing-understood*
08:30-!-Spoons [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
08:30<smallfly>so its not quite easy to implement, correct?
08:31<dihedral>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layer_8
08:33<Sacro>dihedral: *snigger*
08:34<dihedral>:-)
08:36<smallfly>the problem maybe the user, not the system, but the system can avoid the problem by limiting the landscaping
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08:40<+glx>yeah "block" legit players because there are dumb stupid ones
08:40<@petern>limit the users
08:40<@petern>cut off their heads
08:40<@petern>MSVC doesn't like r15505
08:41*glx checks
08:42<@petern>the use of this->grf
08:42<SmatZ>[14:31:12] <dihedral> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layer_8 <== hehe :)
08:43<+glx>ho the constructor?
08:43<@petern>yeah
08:43<+glx>easy to fix I think :)
08:44<SmatZ>ahhh :(
08:44<+glx>I'm working on it :)
08:44<@Rubidium>and then fix cygwin ;)
08:44<+glx>I don't have cygwin
08:44<SmatZ>glx: if you do non-primitive changes, maybe it would be worth to change order of variables in that struct...
08:45<SmatZ>so it is 4 bytes smaller ;)
08:45<SmatZ>I kept this order so constructor can be done this way (with "empty body")
08:45<+glx>oh it just warns
08:45*glx though it was worse
08:46<SmatZ>glx: byte / int arithmetics?
08:46<+glx>not 'this' in initialiser
08:46<SmatZ>interesting
08:46<+glx>*no
08:47<+glx>removing "this->" is enough
08:48<+glx>but if we want to keep this, I can fill the body :)
08:48<@petern>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/r15505.diff
08:49<@petern>this "iff" obsession pisses me off
08:49<+glx>hehe, I prefer explicit terms too
08:50<SmatZ>I prefer iff, it's exact and short
08:50<@petern>comments are for humans, not mathematicians
08:51<SmatZ>it's better to initialised variables the way it was before - doesn't removing "this" help?
08:52<+glx>removing 'this' works, until someone readds it ;)
08:52<@Rubidium>but programming is a special kind of applied mathematics
08:52<@petern>i prefer just if, because, you know, that's how it's used in english
08:53<SmatZ>the english used in programming isn't common english
08:54<@petern>"true if i went to the pub" means "true if i went to the pub, false if i didn't", not "true if i went to the pub, but might also just be true anyway"
08:55<@Rubidium>hmm
08:56<@Rubidium>lets replace "true" with "drunk" and "false" with "not drunk"
08:56<@petern>that's not the same
08:57<@petern>that's two conditions, we've only got *one*
08:57<@petern>true/false is not one of the conditions
08:57<Forked>if I do this I get in trouble
08:59-!-NukeBuster|laptop [~opera@212-182-153-94.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
08:59<SmatZ>"true iff cond." can be replaced by "true if cond., false otherwise" - but it's longer
08:59<SmatZ>and it's better to be exact
08:59<@petern>false otherwise is implicit
08:59<SmatZ>because there are cases when content of a variable is undefined
09:00<@petern>how does that affect boolean return values?
09:01<SmatZ>for me, "iff" says I can be 'sure' about the return value
09:01<@petern>for me, "iff" says you pressed "f" too many times
09:02<@Rubidium>it implies that there will be a return value, whereas "true if cond" doesn't imply there's a return value for (some) false cases
09:02<+glx>if you are unsure about a boolean value then the condition is incorrect
09:02<SmatZ>like, a sat solver ... if it returns true, it has a solution, if it returns false, I don't know if it has or doesn't
09:02<SmatZ>but then I can have another solver that returns true if and only if a solution exists
09:03-!-TinoDid [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
09:04<SmatZ>[14:49:14] <petern> this "iff" obsession pisses me off <== you aren't very polite
09:04<SmatZ>that pisses me off
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09:12<@Belugas>hellooo
09:12<@Belugas>no, not off, iff...
09:13<@petern>also
09:13<@petern>ror 0.36 has some great stuff in it
09:14<Sacro>i need to try it
09:14<@Belugas>KingJ, thanks for impression on RDP, it worked quite well
09:14<@Belugas>and VPN is a breeze too
09:14<@Belugas>once yuou know where to look ;)
09:15<+glx><@petern> ror 0.36 has some great stuff in it <-- I like the new gui
09:16<+glx>but cancel and the closing cross are just cosmetic stuff ;)
09:16<@petern>indeed
09:19*Belugas might give it a try very soon
09:20<KingJ>Glad to hear it worked Belugas
09:21<KingJ>I really need to restore grub so I can boot my linux install again
09:22<@Belugas>last time i had trouble with grub, i prefered to re-install from scratch
09:22<+glx>petern: but it seems kenworth mirrors are "broken"
09:22<@Belugas>but you remind me i shall find the way to do a backup
09:23<KingJ>Last time I had to do this, it wasn't difficult, I just had to boot a live CD and run some command
09:28*Belugas will search tonigh these commands
09:28<@Belugas>and much more
09:36<NukeBuster|laptop>KingJ: Isn't the only thing you have to do to restore grub "grub-install" or "/sbin/grub-install"?
09:37-!-xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd
09:43<KingJ>I remember typing in some grub commands
09:43<KingJ>http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=117829&postcount=2
09:43<KingJ>That's what I followed last time
09:48<Sacro>yeah, i've done it that way
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10:08<Sacro>@seen rortom
10:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: rortom was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <rortom> nite
10:08<Sacro>sigh, he's got ?use_mirror=mesh
10:09<Sacro>and mesh sucks
10:09<Sacro>could be worse, could be switch
10:12<@Belugas>could be even worse, could be none
10:31-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd
10:32*TrueBrain waves
10:32<Forked>ello
10:33*Rubidium waves back
10:33<TrueBrain>how is you going? :p
10:34<@Rubidium>fine I am
10:35<TrueBrain>good you is
10:38<@Belugas>there T hello B
10:38*TrueBrain hugs Belugas :)
10:38<@Belugas>frrrrrrr frrrrrr frrrrrr
10:39<TrueBrain>good boy :)
10:39<TrueBrain>now roll over
10:40*Belugas was doing a cat... not a dog!
10:40<Forked>ew
10:40<@Belugas>since when do dogs furss????
10:40<TrueBrain>too bad :)
10:41<@Belugas>or purr>
10:41<@Belugas>i think it's purr
10:41<@Belugas>not furr
10:41<TrueBrain>purr, yes :p
10:42<@Belugas>my "kitty" is a purr machine
10:42<TrueBrain>haha, we don't want to know :p
10:42<TrueBrain>really .. we don't :)
10:45<@Belugas>pffffitt!
10:45-!-einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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10:58*db48x yawns
10:58<db48x>howdy all
10:58<TrueBrain>db48x: hi to you too
10:58<db48x>what's hopping?
10:59<@Rubidium>a rabbit?
10:59<db48x>I just know my wonderful patch has been checked in overnight, specifically as a surprise for me
10:59<KingJ>A killer rabbit
11:00<TrueBrain>I hate rabbits
11:00<@Rubidium>what patch?
11:01<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: what's wrong with rabbits? Their meat is quite lean
11:01-!-Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
11:01*db48x is crushed
11:01<TrueBrain>so dead rabbits are good rabbits :p
11:03*TrueBrain inflates db48x
11:04<db48x>:)
11:07<@Belugas>what patch?
11:07<TrueBrain>*echo*
11:07<TrueBrain>hmm
11:07*db48x yawns
11:07<db48x>I think I woke up earlier than I should have
11:08<db48x>Belugas: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2635
11:09<@Belugas>it has? ho... good
11:10<@Belugas>it has?
11:10*Belugas checks to upgrade his repos
11:11<db48x>no, it hasn't
11:13<db48x>Belugas, TrueBrain: do you guys know if there's anything else I need to do before that patch can be checked in?
11:13-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:13<TrueBrain>pay the bills! :p
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11:14<db48x>ah, bribery. a time-honored tradition
11:15<TrueBrain>;)
11:15<@Rubidium>db48x: a well written patch and a developer that is interested in it
11:15<@Belugas>1) ask if we are interested, 2) wonder if the new place of the serach awater function is correclty located, 3) wonder if the comments are still valid, 4) verify over and over if it would not break i any way 5) wait until someone has interest enough to commit it
11:16<dihedral>Rubidium, was just gonna say something along those lines :-P
11:16<db48x>ok
11:16-!-Roest [~schurade@p54B9C62F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:16<db48x>#1 is easy.
11:16<db48x>are any of you guys interested? it makes boats better
11:16<@Rubidium>oh, and not being annoying helps too
11:16<dihedral>:-P
11:16<SmatZ>6) be nice to all devs :-p
11:17<db48x>Rubidium: thanks, I'll make a particular note of that ;)
11:17<dihedral>db48x, you have posted it on bugs.openttd.org, and the devs are aware of your work - perhaps you might want to wait a little for them to find the time to look at it, and comment
11:17<dihedral>and dont be annoyed if they dont think it is something they want to include
11:17<TrueBrain>7) bribe any developer (doesn't really help, but it is always nice :p)
11:17<dihedral>just be open to either a yes or a no
11:18-!-Eoin [Eoin@92-233-181-117.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:18<db48x>dihedral: heh, I've been around long enough to be able to manage that
11:18<dihedral>being around long enough has nothing to do with that
11:18<db48x>sure it does
11:18<dihedral>there is a guy in the forums (first and last letter of his nick are also S Z)
11:19<db48x>I've had patches refused enough times that I know it happens
11:19<TrueBrain>also?
11:19<dihedral>he has huge issues with understanding any rejection wrt his patches / ideas
11:19<db48x>(obviously not for openttd, since I'm new here)
11:19<db48x>ah
11:19<dihedral>SmatZ has them too
11:19<dihedral>and it's not SmatZ i am talking about ;-)
11:19<TrueBrain>true
11:19<SmatZ>dihedral: what?
11:19<dihedral>'S%sZ', irko
11:20<@Belugas>it's not SmatZ, big time... SmatZ rimes with Smart. the other one rimes with Psycho!
11:20<SmatZ>hehe
11:20<TrueBrain>Belugas: good point
11:20<Sacro>sirkoz?
11:20<TrueBrain>Sacro: ever managed to get that VM online?
11:21<Sacro>what VM?
11:21<dihedral>Sacro, well done for making a google-able string
11:21<Sacro>dihedral: danke
11:21<Sacro>er
11:21*TrueBrain gives Sacro a bit of memory-loss
11:21<Sacro>dankë
11:21<dihedral>the Vindows Manager :-P
11:21<Sacro>oh that VM
11:21<dihedral>nada, Sacro
11:21<Sacro>errm, yes, i belive it was online
11:21<dihedral>_was_ hehe
11:21<db48x>as for testing, I've generated hundreds of maps in various configurations, and none of them were ever broken
11:21-!-TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
11:22<dihedral>db48x, just be patient
11:22<TrueBrain>Sacro: as in: did it boot? As I can't get passed the boot :(
11:22<db48x>so that's cool
11:22<Sacro>TrueBrain: you need a patched KVM install
11:22*TrueBrain makes db48x a bit hotter (insert url of Jessica Alba here)
11:22<@Belugas>the idea of the feature is not bad, db48x. Honestly. From my point of view anyway...
11:22<TrueBrain>Sacro: no, my question was very specific limited to VirtualBox, we talked about that :)
11:22<db48x>Belugas: cool
11:22<Sacro>oh bah
11:22<@Belugas>i can't totally judge of the efficiency of the code though
11:23<Sacro>ah yes we did
11:23<Sacro>i need to try VBox again
11:23<dihedral>and 'extensive testing' is something every patch creator thinks he/she has done, yet there often enough is some kind of situation they did not think of / test
11:23<db48x>Belugas: it's inefficient
11:23<@Rubidium>db48x: that's something that has been told many many times and many times that was not the case
11:23<db48x>Rubidium: heh
11:23<TrueBrain>there is no test than the real world test :)
11:23<TinoDidriksen>Don't you have a regression test suite by now?
11:23<dihedral>Rubidium, i beat you to it this time :-P
11:24<TrueBrain>TinoDidriksen: yeah, that covers all problems .. the past and the future ... lol :p
11:24<db48x>Belugas: it's essentially O(n^3)
11:24<dihedral>db48x, ask openttdcoop, perhaps they are interested enough to host a few games on their dev server, however - dont annoy them
11:24<dihedral>:-P
11:24<Sacro>heh
11:24<Sacro>n^3 is fine
11:24<dihedral>ask them friendly, dont bug them
11:24<Sacro>i've done 3n^4 code before
11:24<db48x>nice
11:24<db48x>dihedral: good idea
11:25<dihedral>sure it's a good idea.... it came from me
11:25*dihedral coughs
11:25<TrueBrain>Sacro: and I did O(n^n) .. your point? :p
11:25<db48x>dihedral: :)
11:25<Sacro>TrueBrain: ouch
11:25<TrueBrain>*insert random comment here*
11:26<@Rubidium>db48x: did you know that your patch breaks town alignment in case of 2x2 and 3x3 grids?
11:26<db48x>hmm
11:27<TrueBrain>bye bye intensively tested :p
11:27<TrueBrain>(sorry :))
11:27<db48x>I suspected that might be important to maintain
11:27<TrueBrain>some girl living next door has the most annoying laugh I know .... :s Can I tell her to leave, or is that rude? :p
11:28-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
11:28<@Rubidium>yes to both?
11:28<TrueBrain>:)
11:30<@Rubidium>though there might be other solutions
11:31<TrueBrain>kill her?
11:31<TrueBrain>drown her?
11:31<TrueBrain>duct-tape her mouth?
11:31<TrueBrain>put a brick in her mouth?
11:31<dihedral>no - that would not be enough
11:31<TinoDidriksen>Just make sure her mouth is too busy to talk.
11:32<dihedral>you can still make sounds!!!!
11:32<@Rubidium>http://www.google.com/search?q=most+annoying+laugh <- might help making it not the most annoying laugh you know
11:32<db48x>haha
11:33*TrueBrain slaps Rubidium with a linux manual
11:33<dihedral>since when can linux manuals laugh?
11:34<@Rubidium>oh dear, TrueBrain's starting to use imaginary things
11:34<TrueBrain>I believe someone (with the name of dihedral) needs glasses
11:34<db48x>Rubidium: so, I had tested my patch with all the town layout options, and never noticed anything amiss. What happens to the towns when they are not located on the grid?
11:34<dihedral>i am surprised he needs one
11:34<dihedral>actually - that does make me laugh :-D
11:34<TrueBrain>Rubidium: :p
11:35<TrueBrain>and do you know what makes me laugh?
11:35<@Rubidium>db48x: towns will build roads through eachother
11:35<@Rubidium>N2O?
11:36<TrueBrain>I wonder if dihedral can guess
11:36<dihedral>the girl next door?
11:36<db48x>Rubidium: ah
11:36<TrueBrain>@kick dihedral no silly, this of course!
11:36-!-dihedral was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [no silly, this of course!]
11:36<TrueBrain>sigh ..
11:36-!-dihedral [~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd
11:37<dihedral>ah
11:37<dihedral>well - yes
11:37<TrueBrain>:)
11:37<dihedral>i could have guessed that one
11:37<@Rubidium>that's the so called happykicking
11:37*dihedral hugs TrueBrain
11:37<db48x>Rubidium: I guess I haven't played games to completion on every layout setting :)
11:37<TrueBrain>yup :)
11:37<TrueBrain>and you should have guessed it ;)
11:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the only one I know :p
11:37<db48x>Rubidium: thanks for pointing it out, it's easy to fix
11:38<dihedral>TrueBrain, i dont believe you - you know other kicks
11:38<dihedral>esp when someone like yorki-proki is here
11:38<dihedral>*porki
11:42<TrueBrain>dihedral: still the same kind of kicks
11:42<TrueBrain>I don't really know any others ... :)
11:42<dihedral>TrueBrain, take a vacuum cleaner, turn it on to full power, and stick the end to her nose or mouth
11:42<dihedral>that'll stop her laugh
11:43-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5F3D9.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
11:43<TrueBrain>yeah, closing my door helps too
11:43<TrueBrain>but tnx for the tip
11:43<dihedral>+ you'd get to see a very funny face, and huge eyes
11:44-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5F3D9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
11:45<@Belugas>hooo... and if she's nasty, she might ask to put it somewhere else. And the door will be closed pretty fast too
11:45<TrueBrain>Belugas: ieuw!
11:45<TrueBrain>even more, as on a scale of 0 to 10, I will give her a -15 for prettiness ....
11:46<dihedral>Belugas, you are married - leave your dirty thoughts at home please :-D
11:46<TrueBrain>oh well, dinner time :) Bye all :)
11:46<dihedral>enjoy
11:46-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
11:49<@Belugas>well... does not apply to me... i've got my own fantasms, which are not to be discussed ;)
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11:55<dihedral>Belugas, at least i thank you for the last part of that line :-P
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12:05<db48x>Rubidium: thanks, I've fixed it
12:05<db48x>Rubidium: http://db48x.net/temp/Unnamed,%201st%20Jan%201950%236.png
12:05<db48x>is there anything else you can think of?
12:05<@Rubidium>dinner :)
12:07<db48x>:)
12:11<db48x>now that I think about it, I suppose it is lunch time
12:11<planetmaker>enjoy you dinner :)
12:11<planetmaker>... and lunch :)
12:12<db48x>thank you
12:13*planetmaker is looking forward to Sushi which I'll have for dinner :)
12:13<planetmaker>but two hours to go...
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12:19*db48x improves his debugging
12:22<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/Unnamed,%201st%20Jan%201950%239.png
12:27<db48x>I'm not very fond of sushi, but whatever floats your boat :)
12:27<SpComb>dinstance-from-water?
12:29<db48x>yes, the numbers show the distance
12:30<db48x>the idea is to pick a spot that is sufficiently far from the coast that it will have some room to grow, while not putting the town so far from the coast that your docks can't reach
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12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15510 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-17 17:50:34
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 22 fixed by tifached (22)
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 20 fixed by joeprusa (19), miris2009 (1)
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 81 changed by WhiteRabbit (81)
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changed by alyr (1)
12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 3 fixed by darkttd (3)
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13:16<dihedral>no no no no no! planetmaker! seriously!
13:16*dihedral slaps planetmaker's hand
13:16<planetmaker>uh?
13:16<dihedral>bad word... very bad word! you naughty boy
13:16<dihedral>:-D
13:16<@Belugas>dihedral is drunk...
13:17<planetmaker>:P
13:17<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765515#p765515
13:17<dihedral>i am not Sir Belugas
13:17<planetmaker>:D Ah, that word :) The dreaded "r" - word ;)
13:18-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
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13:18<dihedral>yeah - the forums should be modded to star that word out, just like f***
13:18<planetmaker>well. But it's the few places where it doesn't hurt.
13:18<Elukka>you know what i think is silly
13:18<Elukka>when people write f***
13:18<Elukka>everyone knows what it means
13:18<planetmaker>Maybe I should have written "looks better", though
13:19<planetmaker>:)
13:19<dihedral>E****a what's your point?
13:20<Elukka>that there is no point in f***
13:20<planetmaker>it's fun?
13:20<planetmaker>:D
13:21<dihedral>s*** t**** i*
13:21<planetmaker>without we wouldn't be here :P
13:21<@Rubidium>**** *** **** ** ******
13:21<Elukka>**** ** *****
13:21<dihedral>i cannot make out the last word in that one
13:21<Forked>¯\(º_o)/¯
13:22<planetmaker>:P
13:22<dihedral>Forked, <- s/F/b/
13:22-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd
13:22<Forked>pffft
13:22<dihedral>HAHA
13:22<dihedral>:-P
13:22<Elukka>also, in case you agree that evolution is cool: http://www.swimbots.com/
13:23<dihedral>no i dont
13:24<planetmaker>evolution is. inevitable :)
13:24<dihedral>no it's not
13:25<Elukka>yeah, you could kill everything
13:25<Elukka>in which case it would not happen :P
13:25<planetmaker>care to elaborate on how, given ressources and space are limited?
13:26-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
13:26<Elukka>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/genepool.png?t=1234895152
13:26<Elukka>its fun to watch them go over the carrying capacity
13:26<Elukka>then most die and only the best survive
13:26<dihedral>according to science, bumble bees cannot even fly
13:26<dihedral>they are totally out of proportion
13:26<planetmaker>long proven wrong, dihedral
13:26<Elukka>they cant?
13:27<Elukka>them flying is sufficient scientific proof that they in fact can
13:27<planetmaker>it just needs understanding of turbulence
13:27<dihedral>:-P
13:28<dihedral>anyway - i do not believe in evolution ;-)
13:28<planetmaker>I'm still waiting for a reason to support 'no' :)
13:28<dihedral>and now i need to head out :)
13:28<Elukka>personally, i dont believe in gravity
13:28<@Belugas>blup blup
13:28<dihedral>personally i believe in the bible, etc. etc. - what you think about that is none of mine! ;-)
13:29<planetmaker>but gravity's a hardless bitch ;)
13:29<Elukka>point is, evolution and gravity both happen, whether you believe in them or not
13:29<planetmaker>dihedral: the bible doesn't contradict sience and evolution :)
13:29<dihedral>esp in the evenings when gravity has an affect on your eyelids :-P
13:29<planetmaker>besides what Elukka sais...
13:30<dihedral>Elukka, same argument for the existence of God - however, most people dont believe in his existance
13:30<@Belugas>the bible is a book
13:30<@Belugas>the book falls on your toes
13:30<@Belugas>gravity has hurt you
13:31<Elukka>the difference is that there is indisputable proof for gravity and evolution
13:31<planetmaker>^^
13:31<dihedral>Elukka, none the less - if i dont want to believe in it, it does not mean it does not exists - it only makes it easier to 'believe' in it
13:32<Elukka>quick question: do you understand how evolution works?
13:32<dihedral>if a girl tells you, she loves you - you want proof, or you trust and believe her?
13:32<planetmaker>Scientific statements can be verfied by observation. Both gravity and evolution are found to take place. Believe doesn't need that proof.
13:32<planetmaker>dihedral: but to say "I believe in it _not_ existing" on proof of the opposit - that's stupid.
13:32-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
13:32-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
13:32<dihedral>oh my gosh
13:32<dihedral>look at that
13:33<el_en>it's...!
13:33<dihedral>snap
13:33*dihedral hugs Bjarni
13:33<Prof_Frink>BJARNI!
13:33<el_en>can't remember what it is anymore!
13:33<Elukka>evolution and gravity are both theories based on observed facts
13:33<Sacro>zomg a BJARNI :D
13:33<el_en>@seen Bjarni
13:33<@DorpsGek>el_en: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
13:33<planetmaker>Bjarni: ! :)
13:33<@Belugas>agreed: arguments against evolution are mostly based on "It's not on the Bible"
13:33<dihedral>Bjarni, just in case you have not picked up on this - you have been missed a huge bit
13:33<@Belugas>therefor bigotry
13:34<@Bjarni>last time you claimed not to remember me. Looks like you guys got a memory upgrade :)
13:34<Sacro>Bjarni: i'm now a paid up apple user :D
13:34<@Belugas>hello Bjarni
13:34*Bjarni takes a round and greets everybody
13:34<el_en>Bjarni!
13:34<dihedral>ok - i will rephrase: i do not believe in 'evolution' being the sole part of the creation of this and other planets, nor what is / is not upon them
13:35<@Bjarni>...
13:35<Elukka>evolution has nothing to do with planets
13:35<dihedral>and / or around them
13:35<Elukka>it has everything to do with life, though
13:35<@Bjarni>some creationistic bigot ended up here???
13:35<Elukka>i suggest you read what evolution really is and how it works
13:35<planetmaker>Bjarni: it's a well know character here...
13:35<Elukka>it's kinda impossible to say it does not happen if you know how and why it works
13:35<@Bjarni>Sacro?
13:35<planetmaker>dihedral:
13:36<Forked>heya Bjarni
13:36<Sacro>Bjarni: i'm using a macbook these days
13:36<dihedral>Elukka, i know what evolution is
13:36<dihedral>dont you worry
13:36<Elukka>what is it?
13:36<el_en>what does she say after the slap, i can't quite decode all the words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoGfj0KKazg
13:36*Bjarni could use a MacBook
13:36<planetmaker>what happened to yours, Bjarni ?
13:36<dihedral>Bjarni, there are some fun bugs ;-)
13:37*planetmaker has some code which Bjarni might help me with
13:37<@Belugas>see, he's eluding the question :)
13:37<Elukka>i've never seen anyone who understands evolution say it doesnt happen
13:38<@Bjarni>el_en: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQt-h753jHI <-- if you are in word decode mode, then try this one :D
13:38<dihedral>i dont agree with it to a certain depth
13:39<@Belugas>which one?
13:39<dihedral>i.e. cross species: no
13:39-!-Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd
13:39<@Belugas>why?
13:39<dihedral>within: yes
13:39<Elukka>cross species what?
13:39<Elukka>species are a classification made up by humans
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13:39<@Bjarni><planetmaker> what happened to yours, Bjarni ? <-- I never had a MacBook
13:39<Elukka>when beings are different enough we call them a different species
13:40<@Bjarni>I have a PowerBook though
13:40<dihedral>Elukka, that is still a part i do not agree with ;-)
13:40<Elukka>wait
13:40<dihedral>i.e. fish -> bird!
13:40<@Bjarni>but somehow 100 MHz isn't as impressive today as it was in 1996 :~(
13:40<Elukka>what exactly dont you agree with?
13:40<dihedral>Bjarni, LOL
13:40<Elukka>that species change?
13:40<dihedral>i just stated what i dont agree with!
13:40<dihedral>read
13:41<@Belugas>but you did not said why
13:41<Elukka>fish have not evolved into birds
13:41<Elukka>well, depends on what you call a fish, i guess...
13:42<@Bjarni>I have heard about flying fish
13:42<Elukka>many people seem to think a species is a more or less permanent type of animal that can then quickly evolve into another more or less permanent species
13:42<@Belugas>unless he means that we do not descend from primal apes?
13:42<Elukka>if that makes any sense
13:42-!-Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:42<@Bjarni>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_fish
13:43<Elukka>really, the basics of evolution are simple
13:43-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:43<@Bjarni>There is one thing I really don't understand when we talk about evolution and that is how can people reject it?
13:44<@petern>what
13:44<el_en>what does she say after the slap, i can't quite decode all the GERMAN words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoGfj0KKazg
13:44<@petern>an unbeliever of evolution
13:44<@petern>lol
13:44<@petern>bwahahahhaa
13:44<Elukka>it is the same as saying "i dont believe in gravity"
13:44<@petern>evolution doesn't need belief, it just is
13:44<@Bjarni>yeah
13:44<Prof_Frink>Elukka: Gravity is a myth.
13:44<@Bjarni>but somebody in here talks against evolution
13:44<Prof_Frink>This planet just sucks.
13:45<@Bjarni>and he is sitting over there ---> (points to the client list)
13:45<planetmaker>[19:39] <Bjarni> <planetmaker> what happened to yours, Bjarni ? <-- I never had a MacBook <--- oh :S
13:45<Elukka>nowadays, we can actually see the mechanisms that drive evolution
13:45<frosch123>el_en: "hat der sie noch alle - vollidiot, ey"
13:45<Elukka>which is only further proof
13:45<Elukka>we know what happens
13:46-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd
13:46<planetmaker>ggrrrr @ Bjarni
13:46<dihedral>i talk against evolution in the broad theory that, e.g. from fish to frog to bird thingy (and i do know a bunch of people who believe that)
13:46<@Bjarni>what?
13:46<@Bjarni>planetmaker: what did I do?
13:46<@Belugas>dihedral, since when believing in something makes it valid?
13:46<planetmaker>[19:45] <Bjarni> and he is sitting over there ---> (points to the client list) <-- I guess I got this comment wrong :)
13:47<planetmaker>putting it into the wrong context :)
13:47<Elukka>dihedral, your belief that evolution does not happen is not based on rational proof
13:47-!-GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:47<planetmaker>anyway, got2go. Dinner. CU later.
13:47<@Belugas>"and God created the world in six days"
13:47<@Bjarni>planetmaker: it's about evolution and I didn't think of you when I wrote it :P
13:47<Elukka>so, dihedral
13:47<Elukka>how do you think evolution works?
13:47<planetmaker>he :)
13:48<dihedral>Elukka, i have no issue with the thought of evolution taking place to a certain extent
13:48<@Belugas>fuck... i wonder who created the galaxies...
13:48<Elukka>how do you think evolution works?
13:48<Prof_Frink>Elukka: Chuck Norris.
13:48-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Prof_Frink]
13:48-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad4623c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
13:48<+glx>lol it works well :)
13:48<Prof_Frink>Ow.
13:48<el_en>frosch123: danke
13:48<frosch123>\o/
13:48<dihedral>and why do you have an issue with what i believe or do not believe?
13:49<@Rubidium>I wonder how god was created...
13:49<Elukka>you didnt answer my question
13:49<@Bjarni><Elukka> how do you think evolution works? <-- now he will give you a link to the movie called evolution where Will Smith tries to stop it (or whatever it was about)
13:49<Elukka>no, i think he'll just keep avoiding the question :P
13:49<dihedral>Elukka, i dont feel the need to engage
13:49<@Belugas>because we are all pain in the buts, and not only about forums users :D
13:49<dihedral>lol
13:49<@Bjarni>dihedral: it's an issue because it reveals a lack of understanding of how the world works
13:50*petern watches his thingys trying to reproduce in genepool
13:50<Elukka>ok just read that
13:50<Elukka>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
13:50<Elukka>this*
13:50<Elukka>maybe you'll understand how it works afterwards
13:50<thingwath>"world works"? that's a best joke I heard today :/
13:51<@Bjarni>thingwath: bad day, I guess
13:51<Prof_Frink>Hold on, isn't discussing realism banned? Does that include realism of reality?
13:51<@Bjarni>and now I remember why I stopped opening IRC
13:51<@Bjarni>it always ends up taking time talking about bullshit >.<
13:51<Elukka>in my opinion, gravity does not happen because it is not included in the holy game of ttd
13:52<@Belugas>[13:29] <dihedral> anyway - i do not believe in evolution ;-) <--- but you did venture on that ground ;)
13:52<dihedral>if that were the only thing you stopped, it would not be as bad
13:52<dihedral>Belugas, you think i will write down each little detail of my beliefes?
13:52*db48x yawns
13:52<Elukka>how about we talk again once he has read that wikipedia article on evolution?
13:53-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Atchoooom!!! oooops.. sorry.... r world allergy]
13:53<dihedral>how about you, kiddo, read the bible, i read the that document, and then we continue the discussion
13:53<Elukka>how about you read the qur'an?
13:53<Elukka>(just as irrelevant)
13:53<@petern>the bible is great
13:53<@petern>a lovely piece of fiction
13:53<@Belugas>i did read the bible!!! Can I speal?
13:53<@Belugas>-l+k
13:53<thingwath>(and I will not read the backlog, great.)
13:53-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad4623c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
13:53<@petern>full of sex and violence
13:53<db48x>reversing the flow of traffic without killing anyone is exciting
13:54<dihedral>i know you did Belugas
13:54<Prof_Frink>Ow.
13:54<@Belugas>hello sweety
13:54<@petern>oh, and full of bigotry too
13:54<Elukka>it's pointless to talk of evolution when you are willingly ignorant
13:54<@petern>tip
13:54<@petern>never come out to people on the internet as a bible follower
13:54<@Belugas>tut tut tut... that's ruder...
13:54<@petern>because you will forever be seen as a stupid idiot
13:54<@Bjarni><nirv> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section
13:54<dihedral>Elukka, it does not make sense to try to base an argument on a not fully detailed status of my beliefe
13:55<Elukka>you detailed it enough to say you dont believe in the theory of evolution
13:56<dihedral>sorry, but i do not feel like either you understand where i come from, not to what extent i accept / do not accept the / some thoughts / theories of evolution as has been expressed in one way or another
13:56<dihedral> *nor
13:56<Elukka>it doesnt make sense to cherrypick from established facts the ones you like
13:56<Elukka>i still say read that article i linked
13:57<@Belugas>dihedral : would you rather said we (as human) are coming from primal apes who themselves are coming from smaller mammals who are descending from even more primitive dinosaurus (etc...) up unti the small in-sea-cells ?
13:57<dihedral>if you want to believe that you have me / my beliefes figured, i will not hinder you
13:57<@Belugas>or do you believe we just appeared as a sudden on hearth?
13:57<Prof_Frink>We're on fire? Aaaaaaaaaaargh!
13:57<@Bjarni>dihedral: you didn't answer my question. Can you explain how it can be that you don't believe in evolution?
13:58<@petern>so adam and eve?
13:58<dihedral>yep
13:58<dihedral>that
13:58<Prof_Frink>It's always been too windy.
13:58<Elukka>honestly, i dont see the point in arguing with him about evolution as long as he is unwilling to learn and understand it
13:58<@petern>great
13:58<@petern>we're all inbred
13:58<Alberth>wasn't there a lovely episode about believing in Star trek voyager?
13:58-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:58<dihedral>Elukka, i dont mind what you consider worthy or unworthy
13:59<@Belugas>ok... so it would imply that dihedral believes in evolution for all the other species but humanity
13:59<@Belugas>right?
13:59<dihedral>what counts to me, is what is written in that book i doubt you like
13:59<@petern>aww, the topic doesn't say "no idiots" still :(
13:59<@Belugas>lol
13:59<Elukka>it's the same thing as me arguing the theory of relativity with someone who fully understands it
13:59<dihedral>Belugas, no
13:59-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
13:59<Elukka>there would be no point
13:59-!-mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.93] has joined #openttd
13:59<@Belugas>dihedral : so... we do are descendants of primal apes?
13:59<@petern>so, earth... centre of the universe?
13:59<@Bjarni>dihedral: how old is the planet that you live on?
14:00-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
14:00*Elukka braces for arguments based on feeling instead of evidence
14:02-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:03<Wolf01>hello
14:03<Prof_Frink>http://alanblanchflower.co.uk/images/bus.jpg
14:03<@petern>:D
14:04<OsteHovel^EEE>is it posible to turn off the display of monney and the bar at the bottom of the screen?
14:05-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:05<dihedral>Elukka, where would be the point of faith if it were based on evidence?
14:05-!-const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Quit: I'll be back]
14:05<SmatZ>OsteHovel^EEE: without editing sources, there isn't (as far as I remember) - why whould you want to do so?
14:05<Elukka>where is the point?
14:06<@petern>dihedral: DING
14:06<@petern>there is not point in faith
14:06<OsteHovel^EEE>becouse im gonna display monney and date on another display(Character display)
14:06<@petern>*no
14:06<OsteHovel^EEE>(80x4 LCD display)
14:06<SmatZ>nice :)
14:06<dihedral>if that then should be the case, i have not lost anything ;-)
14:06<Elukka>so
14:06<Elukka>why do you refuse to learn about evolution?
14:07<SmatZ>OsteHovel^EEE: have a look at toolbar_gui.cpp, the widget is called xxx_RIGHT (I think)
14:07<OsteHovel^EEE>ok
14:07<OsteHovel^EEE>tnx
14:07<dihedral>Elukka, why do you assume i would not be familiar with evolution
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14:07<Elukka>your refusal of parts of the theory shows a lack of understanding
14:07<SmatZ>OsteHovel^EEE: sorry, statusbar_gui.cpp :-x
14:07<dihedral>Belugas here is familiar with the bible, yet he is not a believer / christian / whatever you want to call it
14:08<OsteHovel^EEE>Ok i will check
14:08<dihedral>that to me does not say he has a lack of understanding
14:08<dihedral>he infact knows a huge lump of stuff
14:08<Elukka>the bible does not contain indisputable scientific proof of anything
14:08<Elukka>it's different
14:08<dihedral>and it's not ignorance
14:08<frosch123>obviously the theory of evolution is wrong, else something as stupid as the human race would not have survived that long
14:08<Elukka>ok then, you say you understand it
14:08<Elukka>again, please tell me how evolution works?
14:09<dihedral>and stop trying to 'prove' anyhow that i dont
14:09<Elukka>you refuse to show that you do
14:10<Elukka>you say you understand evolution, yet you refuse to demonstrate that you do
14:10<@Belugas>to me, the Bible shold be a moral guide, at least Christ's teaching. The rest are merely a collection of legends
14:11<@Belugas>but taking the book as a whole to believe in is not sane, since that book was not originally a whole. It was forged over by by the believes of men.
14:11<dihedral>Elukka, if everything to you is based on proof - then i am sorry, but i am no where required to 'prove' anything ;-)
14:11<@Rubidium>evolution: recursive memory corruption
14:11<SmatZ>frosch123: you never know how far we are from our end :-x I hope at least several hundreds years... (but how?)
14:11<@Belugas>therefor, believeing in creationism is taking the words out of their contexts and so on
14:11<Elukka>...
14:12<Elukka>then there's no reason for me to believe that you understand evolution
14:12<dihedral>if you feel i must prove something to you, i feel i am not obliged to
14:12<dihedral>sorry
14:12<Elukka>well, then we cant argue about it
14:12<dihedral>then dont
14:12<Alberth>Elukka: why are you not happy to let people believe what they do?
14:13<@petern>genocide
14:13<@Belugas>[14:13] <@Rubidium> evolution: recursive memory corruption <-- excellent :D
14:13<Elukka>why should i not question beliefs?
14:13-!-GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:14<frosch123>Elukka: everyone should question his own believes, not those of others
14:14<OsteHovel^EEE>yes
14:14<Elukka>i also question those
14:14<@petern>i believe in beer
14:14<Elukka>why should you not question the beliefs of others?
14:14<OsteHovel^EEE>i just commented out the onPaint() commands and it no longer displays
14:15*Rubidium wonders whether Elukka will question all my beliefs
14:15<dihedral>Elukka, why do you try to question what you dont understand :-P
14:15<Elukka>rubidium, only if you want to start arguing about them :P
14:15-!-mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15<SmatZ>OsteHovel^EEE: yeah, somment out that /* Draw company money */ code
14:15<dihedral>because if you did understand what i believe, then you would not try to argue with me
14:15<dihedral>and just let it be :-P
14:15<Elukka>we've gone over this already
14:16*Rubidium believes Elukka is not nuts ;)
14:16-!-db48x [~db48x@64.218.49.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16<dihedral>but as for you it seems everything is based on a concept of 'proof'
14:16<Alberth>Elukka: maybe you should question your own belief that you should bother other people with your beliefs
14:16<@Darkvater>w00t
14:16<@Rubidium>lets discuss that belief ;)
14:16<@Darkvater>0.7.0b1
14:16*Darkvater hugs Rubidium
14:16<Elukka>dihedral, an argument is not very convincing if no proof of a position is provided
14:17<thingwath>he doesn't want to convince you, it seems
14:17*SmatZ believes in himself
14:18<@Rubidium>hi Darkvater
14:18*Rubidium still waits for Elukka to 'disprove' my belief ;)
14:18<SmatZ>:o)
14:18<Elukka>but i want to play WiC
14:19<@Rubidium>you just don't want to argue about my belief
14:19<Elukka>it's unimportant! :D
14:20<Alberth>even though you did not provide any proof!
14:20-!-db48x [~db48x@64.218.49.85] has joined #openttd
14:20<dihedral>Elukka, as i already stated, i am not gonna try to convince you of anything, nor do i think i need to prove anything to you
14:21<Elukka>as i already stated, then let's stop arguing
14:21<Elukka>now, i will go blow stuff up
14:21<@petern>christians?
14:22<Elukka>godless commies!
14:22<Elukka>alternatively, capitalist pigdogs!
14:23<thingwath>hm, I'm not sure what of these two I am tonight
14:24<thingwath>(why world in conflict and not world in crisis?)
14:24<Elukka>because conflict sounds nicer
14:24<SmatZ>[20:23:06] <thingwath> hm, I'm not sure what of these two I am tonight <== wanted to say something similar :o)
14:25<thingwath>in english, pf, maybe
14:25<Elukka>WiC is the only RTS in ages where i got into the multiplayer aspect...
14:25<Elukka>last was homeworld and hw2
14:26<thingwath>I don't multiplayer since I have found that freeciv servers are full of evil Germans.
14:26<SmatZ>hehe @ " evil Germans."
14:26<Elukka>i once got on a wic server and the american team was full of russians
14:26<SmatZ>what's so evil about them?
14:26<thingwath>they are speaking german :)
14:27<SmatZ>:)
14:27<thingwath>and they always win!
14:27<thingwath>:-(
14:27<SmatZ>hehe :)
14:28<thingwath>and I don't know about their evil plots against me, since I can't speak german well enough!
14:28<SmatZ>:-)
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>that is entirely your own problem :p
14:30<thingwath>if I have learned german, I could have conquered the world! :-/
14:36<@Darkvater>oh btw, I have good news
14:37<@Darkvater>I have started writing code to cache the grf-scan results
14:37<@Darkvater>which I had to momentarily pause because I have to backup lotsa stuff for a reinstall...
14:37<@Darkvater>during which I started openttd from my usb drive..and behold
14:37<@Darkvater>game starts in <1 second
14:37*Darkvater 's harddrive is officially very very very very fragmented
14:38-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B8274A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:38<SmatZ>Darkvater: impressive - how many GRF do you habe? (I am afraid the most serious problem for me is HDD performance...)
14:38<@Darkvater>so i stopped development
14:39<@Darkvater>SmatZ: 294
14:39<@Darkvater>so let's say 270 or something
14:39<frosch123>421 :/
14:39<@Rubidium>Darkvater: and defrag can't remove the fragmentation?
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14:40<+glx>Rubidium: not for long :)
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14:40<@Darkvater>XP crashes when I defrag
14:40<@Darkvater>;p
14:40<SmatZ>I got >8000 (most of them are duplicates from full openttdcoop checkout)
14:40<+glx>not enough free space?
14:41<@Darkvater>no, it just hangs
14:41<@Darkvater>reason #1715232 to reinstall
14:41<SmatZ>hmm it will be less :)
14:41<frosch123>[20:43] <SmatZ> I got >8000 (most of them are duplicates from full openttdcoop checkout) <- lol, why?
14:42<@Darkvater>http://tweakers.net/meuktracker/19610/openttd-070-beta-1.html << very long list :)
14:43<@Rubidium>and the text at the top is wrong too
14:43<@Rubidium>8 players in MP isn't quite right anymore (if it was ever right)
14:43<SmatZ>frosch123: sorry, it is much less... ~1300 ... most of them are readmes and similiar files :)
14:44<SmatZ>frosch123: to have older versions of GRFs :)
14:44<@Rubidium>SmatZ: fdupes -r -d .
14:45<@Rubidium>or fdupes -r -d -N . if you don't want to answer questions
14:45<SmatZ>Rubidium: when I delete them, next svn up will recover them
14:45<@Rubidium>then don't use a SVN checkout
14:45-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
14:45<frosch123>hehe, I exported the grfpack :p
14:45<Ammler>frosch123: how many have you then?
14:45*Rubidium downloads the tar.bz2s from the website and unbz2s them
14:45<Zuu>Is there a know issue with resizing the window in multiplayer on linux builds?
14:46<frosch123>Ammler: 421 without duplicates
14:46<@Rubidium>and then he only installs the upgrade .tar.bz2s
14:46<Zuu>A player on a game I played had this issue, and he was moderately interested into reporting it. So i figured I'd check if it is a known issue.
14:46<Ammler>there are around 190 unique newgrfs in the pack
14:48<+glx>Zuu: what is the issue exactly? connection lost due to too long time without reply ?
14:48<@Rubidium>Zuu: no, although if he uses Allegro as video backend you can't stretch the window
14:48<@Darkvater>where's TB?
14:48<@Rubidium>in his sikrit hideout
14:48<+glx>somewhere on this server :)
14:48*frosch123 is always happy to read those dutch articles, the german forum feels always wetter afterwards...
14:48<@Rubidium>listening to his neighbour laughing
14:48<frosch123>*better
14:49<Zuu>glx: He said that it crashed. But didn't got much detail from him. But he said that he would look into it when he had more time.
14:49<+glx>better wait for more details ;)
14:49<Zuu>He has left the game now, so can't get more details. openSuse was the linux dist he used.
14:49<Zuu>And it was 0.7 beta1
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14:50<+glx>but I guess we'll get reports if it happens for someone else
14:50<Zuu>Sure :)
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15:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15511 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Fix [FS#2641] (r15190): Generating a map with the original map generator with freeform edges on resulted in an assert.
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15:50<Aali>why would anyone use the old mapgen? :/
15:51-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
15:51<Yexo>I have absolutely no idea
15:52<Yexo>that's probably the reason the bug wasn't found before :p
15:52<@Rubidium>because it's more no-build-on-slope compatible than perlin
15:52<Elukka>well, how many openttd players speak esperanto? :P
15:52<Yexo>so why would anyone disable build-on-slopes?
15:52<@Rubidium>to test AIs
15:53<@Rubidium>and to make the game harder
15:53<@Rubidium>/more annoying
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: apparently at least the translator
15:55<@Rubidium>it's not like the esperanto translation is an effort for the developers
15:56<frosch123>frisian translation and toyland should be removed :p
15:57<@petern>piglatin
15:57-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggzzz
15:57<db48x>why remove frisian?
15:58<frosch123>db48x: agreed, "remove toyland" requests are more common than "remove frisian translation", but both are equally weird requests
15:59<db48x>:)
15:59<Wolf01>I like to play toyland... this should be a good motive
15:59<db48x>actually, "remove toyland" is partly justifiable, since each additional configuration option multiplies the amount of testing you have to do to ensure a quality product
16:00-!-Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
16:00<@Rubidium>power nap!
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>a propos toyland, what happened to the brickland?
16:09<Sacro>heh,
16:09<Sacro>ask Wolf01
16:11<Wolf01>it's there, in a lost folder of my hdd, I'll draw something when I have enough time, but less than one tile a week, so it is frozen
16:12<Zuu>Wasn't OpenGFX doing some improvements to toyland. At least the terrain is a bit better in OpenGFX if I recall correctly.
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16:14<dihedral>oi
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16:23<Wolf01>'night
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16:25<@Darkvater>OMG
16:25<@Darkvater>bjarni is active :)
16:26<@Darkvater>Bjarni is even here :)
16:28<@Bjarni>hi Darkvater
16:28<@Bjarni>long time no see
16:28-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]]
16:28<@Darkvater>I can say the same thing about you :)
16:28-!-Roest [~schurade@p54B9C62F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
16:28<@Darkvater>how've you been lately?
16:28<@Bjarni>very busy at uni
16:28<@Darkvater>finishing stages?
16:29<@Bjarni>I work on getting my master this year
16:29<@Darkvater>great :)
16:29<@Darkvater>this year as in dec'09 or sooner? ;)
16:30<@Bjarni>it's undecided but December isn't unrealistic
16:30<planetmaker>:)
16:30<@Darkvater>ah, so still a long way to go :)
16:31<@Darkvater>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=765382#p765382 << no idea what this is; but look good :)
16:31<planetmaker>http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1129 <-- as long as that isn't true, Bjarni, you're safe ;)
16:32<planetmaker>Darkvater: I guess what the text next to it sais :P
16:34<@Darkvater>planetmaker: I'm glad to have that behind me :)
16:34<planetmaker>hehe :)
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16:41<Zuu>hmm, why do all my short nails have to have a small hole. Why do I have so many nails, but no short nail with a big hole? :s
16:42-!-energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd []
16:42<Aali>you have nails with holes in them?
16:42<TinoDidriksen>Also known as screws
16:43-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad1d1b9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: brb]
16:43<Zuu>hmm, not nails, but needles :p
16:44-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44<el_en>Bjarni: after that you are to be called "Master Bjarni" in here.
16:45<@Bjarni>good point
16:45<planetmaker>:P
16:46<@Bjarni>you should all address me as "Master" on the near future XD
16:46<@petern>Bater?
16:46<Zuu>In the future when you have to get out to the real world, as opposed to beeing a student :p
16:47<@Bjarni>you mean I'm not in the real world?
16:48<@Bjarni>then what is the real world like? Is it any good?
16:48<@Bjarni>can it be that good that there is no EU at all? :P
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16:55<SmatZ>Bjarni: EU? what do you mean?
16:55<planetmaker>Bjarni, you may know a bit about the Mac API: can you tell me the difference between the Carbon type UniCharArray and a normal string?
16:56<planetmaker>I somehow don't get it converted properly, I assuem...
16:56-!-bleepy [bleepy@5ad103f2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:56<planetmaker>*assume
16:57-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
16:57<@Bjarni>hmm
16:57-!-Yeggzzz [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57<@Bjarni>that's actually a good question
16:57<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/179753 <--- line 72 crashes
16:58<planetmaker>it's a patch to r15438
16:58<planetmaker>but I guess it still works
16:59<SmatZ>planetmaker: lines 39/40 look ... strange :)
16:59-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@cpe-72-225-228-60.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:59<planetmaker>yeah
16:59<@Bjarni>that's trailing whitespace
17:00<planetmaker>It's not tidied up in any way, so there are a lot of oddities
17:00<SmatZ>yeah :)
17:00<SmatZ>ok, sorry :)
17:00<SmatZ>I am eating, so I can't code
17:00<planetmaker>no problem, you're right, SmatZ :)
17:00<SmatZ>so I am reading :)
17:00<planetmaker>he :)
17:00<@Bjarni>I usually have a lot of those, but I run the script before making a diff that I show to anybody else
17:00-!-el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<planetmaker>I appreciate that :)
17:01<planetmaker>I hurried to catch you while you're here :P - and I'm still awake :P
17:02-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
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17:02<@Bjarni>and it just crashes?
17:02<planetmaker>yes. Bus error
17:02-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
17:02<planetmaker>no, I tried trains ;)
17:02<SmatZ>hehe
17:03<@Bjarni>planetmaker: have you tried crashing this in qdb?
17:03<planetmaker>hm... not really. I guess I *really* should learn to use it...
17:04<planetmaker>gdb, eh?
17:04<@Bjarni>lol
17:04<@Rubidium>it expects you to do ATSUCreateStyle(&text_style) I think
17:04<SmatZ>Rubidium: just wanted to say the same :-p
17:04<@Rubidium>and ATSUStyle text_style
17:05<@Bjarni>gdb, qdb... same thing... it's a lot of text and once you read it and realised what goes on you start to laugh
17:05<planetmaker>he...
17:05<SmatZ>at least, googling for ATSUCreateStyle shows so
17:06<planetmaker>ok, it's a bad memory access (kern protection failure)
17:06<SmatZ> ATSUStyle style;
17:06<SmatZ> OSStatus status = ATSUCreateStyle(&style);
17:06<SmatZ>like this...
17:06*planetmaker will test that
17:07<@Belugas>night all
17:07<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:07<SmatZ>Belugas: night?
17:07<Zuu>Good night Belugas
17:07<planetmaker>night Belugas
17:07<@Rubidium>or should I say, 'see' you later?
17:07<SmatZ>at 17:07? or
17:08<SmatZ>:-)
17:08-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:09<planetmaker>hm... using &style creates a compile error
17:09<planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/fixing/src/strings.cpp:1588: error: cannot convert 'OpaqueATSUStyle***' to 'OpaqueATSUStyle**' for argument '1' to 'OSStatus ATSUCreateStyle(OpaqueATSUStyle**)'
17:10<SmatZ>planetmaker: ap_err = ATSUCreateStyle(&text_style);
17:10<planetmaker>exactly that
17:10<SmatZ>ATSUStyle *text_style = NULL;
17:10<SmatZ>change to
17:10<@Rubidium>remove the * from there
17:10<SmatZ>ATSUStyle text_style;
17:10<planetmaker>oh
17:10<planetmaker>:)
17:14<planetmaker>hm...
17:15<@Rubidium>bus error at line 75 now?
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17:18<planetmaker>well... it seems it doesn't reach that line even... debug output is enabled with -d freefont=7
17:18<planetmaker>for freefont things, right?
17:18<@Rubidium>yeah, though it's probably freetype
17:20<planetmaker>he. Thx.
17:20<Zuu><ot>Nice those americans have made both an "Metric" and a "English" version of the highway design manual. :) </ot>
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17:21<@Rubidium>the highway needs to be 30 feet (10 yards) or 10 meter wide
17:22<planetmaker>and yes, Rubidium, now it fails with the next function call, but I guess it needs the same mods for the things...
17:22<@Rubidium>yup
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17:27<planetmaker>he... the bus is fixed. now I get a segmentation fault...
17:27<dihedral>yay
17:27<dihedral>fun
17:28<murr4y>ooh, 0.7.0 beta came yesterday :D
17:28<murr4y>awesome
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17:30*dihedral wonders how many servers have upgraded
17:32<Zuu>There is/was a NARS set + ECS server which runs 0.7 beta 1 earlirer tonight.
17:32<planetmaker>11, dihedral
17:32<@Rubidium>that reminds me, dihedral: please
17:33<dihedral>yes?
17:33<Zuu>Oh, many more new 0.7 beta servers. :)
17:34<dihedral>Rubidium, ?
17:35<@Rubidium>dihedral: ******
17:35-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
17:35*Rubidium wonders whether dihedral will get the link
17:36<planetmaker>:D
17:36*dihedral steht auf dem schlauch
17:36<Sacro>hunter2?
17:38<dihedral>ah
17:38<dihedral>thank you Rubidium
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17:47-!-xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.]
17:48<planetmaker>ahm... hm... still some conversion magic needed.
17:48<planetmaker>Well, that's for another day then
17:49<planetmaker>a good night to all and thx Rubidium & SmatZ & Bjarni for your help
17:49<@Bjarni>no more new planets tonight :(
17:50<SmatZ>good night, planetmaker :)
17:51<planetmaker>Bjarni: we start with a moon :) It needs time to grow :)
17:51<@Bjarni>hehe
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18:38<Xaroth>I take it it's not possible to have a dedicated server generate screenshots, right?
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>it is, but the settings needed for that mostly defeat the purpose of a dedicated server
18:39<Xaroth>well the concept is having the dedicated server take random screenshots during gameplay
18:39<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: actually, a real dedicated server doesn't have any blitter except the null blitter
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta had a feature like that, before the dedicated server got a real dedicated server
18:40<Xaroth>yeh
18:40<Xaroth>but that required having video drivers installed/enabled
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>problem was that most of the time, it made shots of empty territory
18:40<Brianetta>0.6.3 can still do it, I think
18:40<Brianetta>Mine was scripted to randomly change location
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18:41<Xaroth>I just tried with the ottdcoop build version and it does nothing
18:41<Xaroth>but that's with --enable-dedicated
18:41<Brianetta>Well, that's significantly newer than 0.6
18:41<@Rubidium>yes, 0.6.3 still has the blitters
18:41<Brianetta>I took the screenshot facility out of mine when I was diagnosing the server's load problems
18:42<Brianetta>I still have those problems - Apache driving the load average up to 30 or so. I have a script watching for it, and it restarts Apache.
18:42<Brianetta>NFI what the cause is, but I suspect a PHP application is misbehaving.
18:43<Xaroth>check the access log to see what's being accessed before the load shoots up?
18:43<Elukka>i just tipped over a full glass of coke
18:44<Elukka>miraculously, it didnt hit anything electric
18:45<Brianetta>Xaroth: You'd think that would be easy. Unfortunately, in the thousands of lines of logs that *could* have caused it, none look out of the ordinary.
18:45<@Rubidium>sounds like our lighttpd problem
18:45<Brianetta>I've already spent hours trying that.
18:45<Brianetta>Rubidium: Once I was sshelled into the server when it happened, before my script. Load average reached 120.
18:46<Brianetta>Interactive typing was... er... not so interactive.
18:46<Brianetta>I managed to kill apache.
18:46<Xaroth>120?!?!?
18:46<Brianetta>Every time before that the OS had locked so hard I'd had to order a reboot.
18:46<Brianetta>Now my script runs every five seconds. If the load average is above 10, it kills apache and restarts it.
18:47<Brianetta>It normally catches the load at 30 or more
18:47<Brianetta>and restarting apache *always* fixes it.
18:47<Brianetta>It's a kludgey work-around, and I'm not proud of it.
18:47<@Rubidium>our problem is lighttpd leaking, but not actually leaking
18:48<Xaroth>Brianetta: sometimes the most effective fixes are the ugliest of ones..
18:48<@Rubidium>i.e. valgrind doesn't show a leak, but over time it starts using more and more memory
18:48<Xaroth>i have a script like that running on our production cluster
18:48<Brianetta>Xaroth: That's just it. It's not fixed. It's a very rapid band-aid applicator.
18:49<Xaroth>well yeh
18:49<Xaroth>one of our customer's domino servers has the habbit of breaking down almost every day at around the same time
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>in professional areas, you'd call that a "watchdog", and cash extra for the feature ;)
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: they checked the vacuum cleaner lady?
18:50<Xaroth>happens on multiple server environments, and the domino developers have no clue
18:50<Xaroth>Eddi: we'd have noticed :)
18:50<Brianetta>Sometimes the load shoots way up high, and being measured as a load average, Apache gets killed twice.
18:50<@Rubidium>Xaroth: might it be moisture?
18:50-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM]
18:51<@Rubidium>i.e. http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Seasonal-Slowness.aspx
18:51<@Bjarni>night
18:51-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:51<Xaroth>heh
18:51<Xaroth>not really Rubidium
18:51<Xaroth>the server itself is fine
18:51<Xaroth>it's -just- the domino process
18:51<Xaroth>restarting that process fixes everything for another 23 hours and a bit
18:51<Xaroth>and then it happens again
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: we say "doppelt hält besser" ;)
18:52<Brianetta>Eddi: I call it overkill (:
18:53-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
18:53<Brianetta>RS-SM: HELLO THERE, GUY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ALL-CAPS!
18:54<RS-SM>HELLO MY FELLOW STUDENT
18:54<Xaroth>o_O
18:56<Tefad>i think MIT does allcaps too
18:56-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
18:56<Prof_Frink>KCOM.COM
18:57-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>"Once i was apprentice at a tailor."
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>"When i screwed something up, the foreman threw the smoothing iron after me"
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>"but i ducked and evaded the shot, so the iron hit his wife"
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>"'also fitting', said the foreman"
19:01<Xaroth>Rubidium: I take it screenshot creation is basically writing a rendered frame from SDL to <output type>, right?
19:01<@Rubidium>no. it renders directly to the png
19:01<Xaroth>hm
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>last time i checked, it was a direct buffer
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>not anything to do with SDL
19:02<Xaroth>so, technically, --enable-dedicated + --with-png might allow for proper screenshots?
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>you need a blitter, too
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>or there would not be anything to buffer
19:02<@Rubidium>no
19:03<@Rubidium>as --enable-dedicated disables lots of drawing related stuff
19:03<@Rubidium>as in: doesn't add them to the binary
19:03<Xaroth>hm, thought so
19:03<Xaroth>saves another compile run and installing useless stuff to server
19:04-!-Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this alain guy is on a bumping-spree
19:08-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
19:09<Ammler>well, he reached to merge 2 patches to trunk :-)
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have not followed commits very closely recently
19:10<Ammler>he, ludde has his own wikipedia page
19:11<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I meant his huge patch list with 2 green entries.
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>oh, that...
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes...
19:14<Xaroth>I can always just compile -with- all the gfx libraries.. seeing they are already on this machine o_O
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: just compile a normal build and start it with -D
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>and probably -b something
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19:28<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: ./openttd -n -b 8bpp-simple -v dedicated -m null
19:28<Xaroth>-D turns -b to null
19:28<Xaroth>which.. messes up screenshots
19:29<Xaroth>with -n and -v dedicated you get the same result
19:29<Xaroth>but with enabled blitters
19:29-!-Nathan [~Nathan@5acac752.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
19:30<Nathan>Hello o.O?
19:30-!-Nathan [~Nathan@5acac752.bb.sky.com] has quit []
19:30<Zahl>...
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes. most. certainly.
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19:33<Zahl>weeeeee
19:35<Zahl>hello Eddie|atHome
19:35<Zahl>how are you doing?
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20:31<Nath>Hey, can anybody help me :(?
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>interesting... i have a 4 seconds ping to myself...
20:36<Nath>Could you help me ?
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20:37<+glx>just tell what your problem is
20:37<db48x>nath, you may get a better response if you simply ask your questions
20:38<Nath>Well, I was trying to get online and I found that the "join server" button was disabled, so now I have patched and patched until my client doesnt show some graphics
20:39<Nath>and I still cant get online
20:40<Nath>I think I need to scrap and start again, and if someone could help me do this and then get me online. That would be great :)
20:40<+glx>usually when "join" is disable there's a reason :)
20:40<+glx>first step: what's your version?
20:41<Nath>No idea
20:41<Nath>How do I find out ?
20:41-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:41<Nath>Or better still, can I start again and get up to date ?
20:41-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
20:41<+glx>it's displayed in main window title (the menu window)
20:42<Nath>ok
20:42<Nath>OpenTTD r15510
20:43<+glx>so it's a nightly
20:44<Nath>yeah
20:44<Nath>I extracted a nightly on it
20:44<Nath>and everything else rofl
20:44<+glx>looking at the server list, there's only 2 compatible servers
20:44<Nath>oooo
20:44<Nath>name one please
20:45<welshdragon>Nath, begging will get you igniored
20:45<+glx>they should be on top on the list and have a green dot
20:45<Nath>omg
20:45<+glx>and one of them doesn't require any grfs
20:45<Nath>How did I not see this ty!
20:46<Nath>how do I fix my graphics problem ?
20:46<+glx>black boxes?
20:46<Nath>yeah
20:46<Nath>on the modern trains
20:46<+glx>change base graphics in options
20:47<+glx>opengfx is unfinished
20:47<Nath>:)
20:47<Nath>Its all working ^^
20:47<Nath>Last question, is it hard to host your own server?
20:48<+glx>not really
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20:48<+glx>the hardest part is firewall/router configuration
20:48<Nath>I was hoping to originally make a small server where 2 friends can play with me
20:48<Nath>I have forwarded ports before if thats what you mean
20:49<+glx>that's what I mean :)
20:49<+glx>@port
20:49<@DorpsGek>glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
20:49<+glx>if port 3979 is correctly forwarded you can host without any problems
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20:50<+glx>(note: you can change the port in openttd.cfg)
20:50<Nath>so just port 3979 or 3978 too ?
20:50<+glx>3978 is for advertising only
20:50<Nath>okey
20:51<+glx>ie openttd connects to masterserver on port 3978, telling it on which port it should try (by default 3979)
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20:52<+glx>but you can also make "private" servers (not advertised server)
20:54<Elukka>what confuses me is that i can't host games
20:54-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:54<Elukka>well, i can
20:54<Elukka>but people can't join them
20:54<Elukka>are there more ports i need forwarded?
20:54<+glx>only 3979
20:54<+glx>in UDP and TCP
20:54<Nath>right
20:55<Nath>thats the ports open
20:55<Nath>now what :D
20:55<Elukka>i'm fairly sure i did that port
20:56<+glx>Nath: now start a network game :)
20:56<Nath>erm, yeah, what do i type for host address? mt global IP ?
20:56<Nath>my*
20:56<+glx>did you press "add server" ?
20:57<Nath>yes
20:57<+glx>you failed ;)
20:57<Nath>rofl
20:57<+glx>"add server" is to manually add a server to the list (like a private server)
20:57<Nath>so start server
20:58<Nath>LAN/internet yer ?
20:58<Nath>not internet advertise
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20:59<+glx>lan/internet is for private servers yes
21:00<Nath>can u see it
21:00<Nath>its called "For adam and jen"
21:00<+glx>you need to give the adress for private servers
21:00<Nath>my IP?
21:00<+glx>yes
21:00<Nath>90.202.199.82
21:02<Nath>its there :D
21:02<Nath>its there 3 times lmao
21:02<Nath>but its there ^^
21:02<+glx>you checked locally only no ?
21:03<Nath>whaa ?
21:03<Nath>i put a password on
21:04<+glx>I don't see it
21:04<Nath>hmmm
21:05<+glx>for a first try you should advertise it :)
21:06<+glx>once it's visible in the list (without manual addition) it will work when not advertised too
21:06<Nath>whaaat lol?
21:06<Nath>now u got me all confused lol
21:06<Nath>ok
21:06<Nath>lets go back a stage
21:06<Nath>I have my ports open lol
21:06<+glx>if advertising fail then your ports are not open :)
21:07<+glx>that's why I suggest this step
21:07<Nath>u told me not to do it for advertising lol
21:07<+glx>right :) but I hoped it would work directly
21:08<Nath>ok
21:08<Nath>look not :P
21:09<Nath>stupid thing lol
21:09<+glx>you didn't reboot the router?
21:10<Nath>lol ok
21:10<Nath>lets try that
21:10<Nath>brb
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21:14<Nathan>righty, can you look now ?
21:15<+glx>still nothing
21:15<Nathan>yup
21:16<Nathan>back to the router lol
21:16<@Belugas>how a joyfull one :)
21:16<Nathan>do I need 2 ports opeN ?
21:16<+glx>could be your firewall too
21:16<Nathan>it shouldnt be
21:16<+glx>you need 3979 redirected to your machine for UDP and TCP
21:17<Ammler>(and 78 for adv)
21:18<@Belugas>3978, that is...
21:18<@Belugas>not just 78...
21:18<@Belugas>just in case :S
21:18<+glx>Ammler: usually a router allows outbound without needing special config
21:18<Ammler>:-)
21:18-!-Nath [~Nath@5acac752.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:18<Ammler>indeed
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21:19<+glx>Nathan: hmm you have a dynamic IP it seems
21:20<Ammler>good night all
21:20<Nathan>I just noticed
21:20<Nathan>my local IP seems to be dynamic :P
21:21<Nathan>as it used to be 198.168.0.5
21:21<Nathan>and now its 0.1
21:21<+glx>I mean the public IP too ;)
21:21<+glx>your hostmask changed
21:22<Nathan>it shouldnt be :P
21:22<Nathan>and how would u know :P?
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21:22<Nathan>hmmm
21:23<Nathan>does that mean im not getting a server online :P?
21:23<+glx>anyway that doesn't matter for now :)
21:23<Nathan>few ^^
21:23<@Belugas>198.168.0.x seems to to local address, although a bit strange. local network are usuall 192.168.0.x
21:23<Nathan>ok then
21:23<Nathan>lets try this
21:23<Nathan>if it doesnt work ill reboot router
21:23<Nathan>and then try agen lol
21:24<+glx>Belugas: yes it's the private IP :)
21:24*Belugas_Gone nods
21:25<Nathan>have a look now plz
21:26<+glx>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers <-- if it's not here then something is still wrong :)
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21:27<Nathan>on connection, iys internet (advertise) right ?
21:27<+glx>yes
21:27<Nathan>right thne
21:27<Nathan>lets restart teh router :P
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21:30<Nathan>any luck ?
21:30<+glx>still not visible on http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
21:31<Nathan>I give up then lmao
21:31<Nathan>ive done everything! :P
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21:33<+glx>are you sure a firewall is not blocking it ?
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21:34<Nathan>doubtful
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21:35<Nathan>waw lol
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21:36<+glx>that's the first step
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21:36<Nathan>I think I did recently download something ¬.¬
21:36<@Belugas>a virus?
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21:38<Nathan>lol nar, anti-spyware, but I think it acts as a firewall too lol
21:38<Nathan>will need to take a looky into it
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23:03<Pikka>peter peter... pumpkin eater.
23:04<Pikka>how dare you not be up and about at 4am...
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23:11<ch4rles_>?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 0
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 18 00:00:30 2009