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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-18

---Logopened Wed Feb 18 00:00:30 2009
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01:47<dihedral>what shall we do with the sunkan sailor?
01:48<Forked>dihedral: steal his stuff and push him over the edge?
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03:15<Xaroth>hm, how do you summon your console anyhow
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03:36<planetmaker>good morning
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04:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15512 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Cleanup: Codestyle fixes.
04:11<DASPRiD>planetmaker, lair, this morning wasn't good :P
04:11<dihedral>src/yapf/../misc/blob.hpp:369: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always false
04:11<dihedral>LordAzamath, how nice to see you
04:12<LordAzamath>how nice to see you too dih
04:12<DASPRiD>how nice to see you both
04:12-!-LordAzamath is now known as LA
04:13<dihedral>LA = Local Authority
04:13<DASPRiD>yeah like Los Angeles ;)
04:14<DASPRiD>By the way, translation of "Los Angeles" was "City of dead people", correct?
04:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15513 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Cleanup: Unavailable varaction variable value does not matter, but at least it can be consistent.
04:15<@petern>city of angels
04:15<DASPRiD>angels are dead people
04:15<DASPRiD>so ;)
04:15<@petern>angels are fictional
04:15<LA>angels are not dead ppl lol
04:15<dihedral>what is ppl?
04:16<DASPRiD>short for people
04:16<dihedral>duh - it was a friendly hint!
04:16<DASPRiD>oh :(
04:16<LA>well sorry, my MTA time has made me talk in leetspeek a bit:P
04:16<DASPRiD>LA, that is not leetspeek :P
04:16<LA>th1s 1s
04:16<dihedral>your Mail Transfer Agent time?
04:17<LA>no, Multi Theft Auto: San Andreas
04:17<dihedral>is that not GTA?
04:17<DASPRiD>so you TTL?
04:17<LA>Multi as in multiplayer
04:18<DASPRiD>LA, did you play gta4 yet?
04:18<LA>I have
04:18<LA>but I don't have it
04:18<dihedral>btw - this Alain is annoying - he revived how many threads last night - just saying eithe 'nice' or 'update for me'
04:18<LA>because my pc sucks way too much for it
04:18<dihedral>one of the threads was nearly 3 years dead
04:18<dihedral>what an *****
04:19<DASPRiD>sowe must renice him
04:19<DASPRiD>dihedral, by the way, we should meet another day again for a beer or such
04:20<DASPRiD>argh i want my small monitor replaced, stupid comboboxes use to get into the dead area of the bigger rectangle
04:21<@petern>align at the bottom, then that won't happen
04:21<DASPRiD>it is
04:22<DASPRiD>but phpmyadmin database dropdown goes to top :/
04:22<DASPRiD>anyway, second 30 inch arrives the next days, then the problem is solved :)
04:22<@petern>it does it for me too :(
04:23<DASPRiD>thats a pitty problem
04:23<DASPRiD>are you on linux as well?
04:23<dihedral>no he's a windows guy
04:23<DASPRiD>i never thought that windows, with currently the best multi-monitor support, has this problem as well :x
04:24<DASPRiD>petern, you should throw windows out of the window
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04:24<dihedral>DASPRiD, he does the win port of OpenTTD.....
04:25<dihedral>that would be a real bummer if he did
04:25<DASPRiD>who needs win ports? ;)
04:25<Scuanor>people with winputes?
04:25<planetmaker>75% of the users according to download, DASPRiD ...
04:25<planetmaker>or something of that number
04:26<Eddi|zuHause>that's a pretty low number
04:26<DASPRiD>you should package the ubuntu iso with the windows-download, problem solved ;)
04:26<dihedral>DASPRiD, there are a few devs who develop on windows systems, no imagine them not deving for OpenTTD just because there were no win port ;-)
04:26<KingJ>Yes, because that uses hardly any bandwidth DASPRiD ;)
04:26<DASPRiD>ah well, ok, petern may go on ;)
04:26*dihedral hands petern a huge mug of yummy-coffee
04:26<DASPRiD>KingJ, it's accomodable
04:28<dihedral>KingJ, if bandwidth is a problem, then start spending less time on irc (all other chat systems), any p2p app.......
04:28*DASPRiD steals petern's yummy-coffee
04:28<Scuanor>"hey folks, now all new : openttd with ubuntu-OS included, sorry, you cant do ANYTHING else then anymore with your pc than playing openttd, but seriously, all you do now is bad stuff anyways, so we packaged it really tiny just for you, to switch the OS just for us " yummy idea ;o)
04:29<Scuanor>did i heard someone yelling "censorship!!!" ? naaah...
04:29<DASPRiD>Scuanor, well, they can still play all idTech* games ;P
04:30<Scuanor>whatr about the MSvc project im developing since 2 years?
04:30<Scuanor>or my daughters playskool-learning programs?
04:31<planetmaker>such is life, Scuanor :P
04:31<DASPRiD>native alternatives or wine... or in the worst case virtualbox with seemlesss-mode ;P
04:32<Scuanor>okay. and how much money do i have to pay you to teach me that?
04:32<DASPRiD>Scuanor, i'm fine with 45$/hour
04:32<Scuanor>phew.. im lucky i guess ;o)
04:33<DASPRiD>he, thats still cheaper than windows :P
04:33<dihedral> <- last 3 posts ;-)
04:33<Scuanor>however, at least you package ubuntu with it, adn not a debian raw "selfcompile"distro
04:35<Scuanor>oh my... OO
04:35<Scuanor>there are bridges now in ottd???
04:35<@petern>you mean gentoo, i guess, not debian...
04:36*DASPRiD hands Scuanor an LFS manual
04:36<KingJ>dihedral, thankfully bandwidth isn't an issue for me
04:36*Scuanor gnaws on it
04:37<DASPRiD>hm, somebody should publish a WFS ;P
04:37<Scuanor>°then smiles, as he sees the additional "n" at the articleword°
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04:38<DASPRiD>the n fits pretty well there :P
04:38<Scuanor>it was an expression of appreciation
04:39<Scuanor>its always nice to see people who actually know their language.
04:39<dihedral>Scuanor, /me ?
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04:40<DASPRiD>Scuanor, sorry, that's not my language :|
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04:41<Scuanor>DASPRiD: funny, isnt it?
04:41<Scuanor>dihedral: im not sure i get, what you refer to now
04:41<DASPRiD>Don't know, I didn't laugh ;)
04:41<dihedral>/me is happy
04:41*dihedral is happy
04:41*DASPRiD pets dihedral
04:42*dihedral slaps a large trout with DASPRiD
04:42<Scuanor>DASPRiD: i mean, funny that often not.natives speak better english than natively "speaking" people. ( not very weird though, kinda logical even )
04:42<DASPRiD>Scuanor, ah, yeah, indeed
04:42<DASPRiD>Probably because we learned it the straight way in school
04:42*DASPRiD stabs dihedral with a rusty nuclear sub-marine.
04:43<Scuanor>DASPRiD: even more so because we try to be correct, so natives can understand us.
04:43<DASPRiD>Hehe yeah
04:43*dihedral shoves the sub up DASPRiD ass
04:43<dihedral>SIDEWAYS, no Vaseline
04:44*DASPRiD poops
04:44<DASPRiD>Scuanor, but rally, "a LFS" sounds a bit weird ;)
04:46<Scuanor>hm, not only that, but it makes this awful, hard "A AL EFF ESS" phonetical noise. compared to the smooth, jellylike "annalfes"
04:46<Scuanor>damn... jelly and anal in one sentence... not good, we just had that topic
04:47<DASPRiD>That's what i meant :)
04:52<dihedral> <- trying to patch the same thing in twice (2 different versions) those are signs of AS
04:52<dihedral>AS = Alain Syndrome :-P
04:53<DASPRiD>Action Script :x
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04:55<Pikka>I say I say
04:55*Pikka pokes petern with a spanner
05:01<@petern>hello there sonny jim
05:01<Pikka>good evening madam
05:01<@petern>heh, vserver pisses of chkrootkit :D
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05:01<Pikka>petern: your server, brick chain, out of date
05:01<@petern>oh dear
05:02<Pikka>hence, no joinie!
05:02<Pikka>although since my internet is screwed at home I doubt I could play anyway :)
05:03<@petern>the perils of paths
05:04<@petern>and i can't just restart it as i have a (a!) player
05:05<@petern>i had a lovely simple patch for grf id inside varaction chains
05:05<@petern>then i remembered it wouldn't work
05:05<Scuanor>sorry, petern: that should be "an a-player" ;oP
05:05<@petern>Scuanor, no it wouldn't
05:06<Pikka>but if you're using an obsolete grf that no-one else has, you won't be getting any more players. ;)
05:06<Scuanor>yes, it would.
05:06<Scuanor>you cant just contradict me.
05:07<Pikka>yes he can
05:07<@Rubidium>and a /ignore is just won by...
05:08<Forked>not me! :
05:08<Pikka>who said that?
05:08<@Rubidium>Pikka: who said what?
05:09<@petern>Scuanor is clearly not acquainted with english very well
05:09<@petern>wait a minute
05:09<Pikka>*very goodly.
05:09<@petern>is this brick chain not on banananananananas?
05:10<Forked>rincewind knew how to spell the word banana, he just didn't know when to stop (not the exact quote, but pretty close?)
05:10<Scuanor>petern, then iwouldnt know what aquainted means ;o) so i explain my poor joke... it IS "a (a!) player", but not "a a-player". ( i just reinterpreted your (a!)
05:10<@petern>Rubidium, with the tar files, how does one specify a grf inside one, manually, in the newgrf list?
05:10<Pikka>the current version of PBI has some problems with OTTD I think... the scenario editor?
05:10<Pikka>and there won't be a new version for a while
05:10<@Rubidium>foo.tar/bar.grf IIRC
05:10<Pikka>so I decided not to banananananana it yet
05:12<@Rubidium>hmm, or without the .tar
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05:12<@petern>heh, need newgrf gui for dedicated servers...
05:13<@Rubidium>for foo.tar: foo/bar.grf
05:13<@petern>mmm, right
05:13<dihedral>Scuanor, a joke in the need of explanation aint no good joke
05:14<dihedral><petern> heh, need newgrf gui for dedicated servers... <- lol
05:14<Eddi|zuHause>always take a banana to a party.
05:17<dihedral>petern, would it be possible to, when openttd is started and no data files are found, not not display the error message until the game tried to download opengfx from bananas?
05:17<dihedral>that way, openttd would (if a net connection was available) always be able to start
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't like programs which unaskedly connect to the internet
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>(is "unaskedly" even a word?)
05:18<dihedral>well, ok, prompt them :-D
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>no, rather make that a feature of the installer
05:19<Pikka>they connect to the internet unbidden!
05:20<dihedral>feature of installer would mean it's only supported by a single os
05:21<@petern>which program is that?
05:21<@petern>New mail received Wed Feb 18 02:00 2009 (GMT) Unread since Thu Jul 13 09:24 2006 (BST)
05:21<@petern>pom te pom
05:22<Pikka>porn te porn
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05:38<Pikka>bleepy you card...
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05:40<@petern>hmm, user data is a byte, isn't it?
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05:47<@petern>prop 25
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05:58<nib>updated to the new version, (installed over the 0.5) getting savegame errors in joining multiplayer games, and at every monthly save. Anything i can do to correct this, or better wipe and full install?
05:59<Scuanor>nib: is the error gone, if you save yearly? ( aka is it related to saving or the monthly stuff that happens )
05:59<nib>kept playing with it, for a while. I had the idea it could be patch related, but nothing in the configfile to be found regarding a savepath
06:00<@Rubidium>the save path is where the config file is
06:00<@Rubidium>and apparantly you don't have the rights to write where the config file is
06:01<@Rubidium>and yes... even if you can write there with Windows Explorer another program might not have rights to write there (welcome to the world of Vista)
06:02<Scuanor>yikes! °mnamkes a note to never switch to vista... ( the 347653rd of such notes )
06:02<Scuanor>one can though specifiy a different path and drive for saving, right?
06:03<@petern>yeah, security is something not desired in an OS
06:03<dihedral>Scuanor, where your config is
06:03<Scuanor>( within the save game dialog i mean )
06:03<@petern>chmod 777 -R /
06:03<dihedral>the save game dialog is not related to autosave
06:03<nib>worked correct prior with the 0.5 under vista. That location did not pose a problem at that time. Manually saving works fine though.
06:03<Scuanor>dihedral: args, my fault
06:04<dihedral>perhaps vista does not just see OpenTTD, nib, but OpenTTD 0.5.0 and 0.7.0
06:05<Scuanor>or your harddrive is full °giggles°
06:05<nib>probably things are running through eachother after updating. Scuanor, in theory maybe.
06:06<Scuanor>nib, not in practice though i think, you woul certainly get more obvious results in windows, if C: were totally full even to save such small files
06:07<nib>Correct, and i've just a week ago upgraded my laptop from 160 to 320 gig, and adjusted the ratio for linux usage. Maybe i should see if i can get it to work under linux instead.
06:07<Scuanor>it was more a pun onthose situation where we seek for hours at detailed, deep reasons and oversee a very simple cause "my network is not working" then seeking for 5 hours the reason until we find out, the plug fell out
06:08*nib knows... works on an adsl hel(l/p)desk.
06:08<Scuanor>( happened to me exactly that way ) °sighs°
06:08<SmatZ>nib: it would be nice, our secret plan is to convince people to start using linux ;-)
06:09<Scuanor>SmatZ: is that, why many building in ottd are shaped like L, I, N, U and X's? ;oP
06:09<SmatZ>Scuanor: hehe :)
06:09<SmatZ>nib: try finding and deleting openttd.cfg
06:10<Scuanor>and for trains which, regardless how i set the signals, always seem to paint "linux" across the land while they decide to follow tracks i had laid out, but not for that reason? ;o)
06:10*nib i never give linux to lamers that get manage to get themselves infected within hours again. I say linux is too complicated, i will give you knoppix for if you need the internet.
06:11<nib>that's an idea worthwhile Smatz.
06:12<SmatZ>nib: probably you will also need to move openttd/save directory to $HOME\OpenTTD\save ... or so
06:12<Scuanor>°agrees partly with nib on the too complicate issue° "however, i downloaded ubuntu 8.10 and its really more like windows reagrding installing and setting it up
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06:12<nib>looks promising i all of a sudden can join a game as a spectator.
06:13<dihedral> <- "do this patch still in dev" :-D
06:13<Scuanor>SmatZ: "try finding" now thats just mean °winks and smiles°
06:13<dihedral>that is not even correct if translated directly into german
06:14<nib>yep, downloading online content works now as well.
06:14<SmatZ>Scuanor: my English is getting worse every day...
06:15<Scuanor>dihedral: i bet he simply missed typing "work" after "still"
06:15<Scuanor>SmatZ: i didnt meant it that way. more like "try finding that file in windows vista"
06:16<SmatZ>ok :)
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06:16<Scuanor>which isnt that weird, if i think about windows xp already blocking the whole C:\ folder from tzhe users eyes on default settings
06:16<Scuanor>( dpocuments settings is a subfolder of C:\ though, i know )
06:17<dihedral> <- oh my word
06:17<dihedral>Scuanor, that still makes no sense
06:18<nib>Scuanor, yep that's a live cd now as well. I even gave someone a cd with amithlon, an amingaskin so to say, but perfect to convince peaple a couple of years ago that they were not using the complicated linux... But ubuntu is an excellent choice. Since the ibex it even installs directly on my laptop without having to worry about stange lockups anymore. /me blames packard bell, not canonical
06:19<@petern>SmatZ, how do i add stuff to the gamelog?
06:19<dihedral> <- LOL - asking Alain if he has grf coding experience :-P
06:20<Scuanor>nib, yip, im always positively amazed how knoppix works. throw it in and within a tenminute you have a full working ( although slow ) system and can just fire up the browser and the chatclient
06:21<Scuanor>"does this patch still "work" in dev?" sure, it may not be oxfordian english, but i see its meaning
06:22<dihedral>Scuanor, --toram
06:22<Scuanor>dihedral: iie, wakarimasen ;o)
06:22<dihedral>makes knoppix a wee bit faster ;-)
06:22<Forked>lots of old threads waking up in the dev section of forum these days?
06:23<Scuanor>dihedral: ah, now i get the context
06:23<Scuanor>dihedral: that with 768 mb ram?
06:23<dihedral>Forked, all due to a lovely Alain
06:23<Forked>I'm sure he means well :)
06:23<dihedral>Scuanor, that's your own fault
06:23<Scuanor>°grins° i know theres a word missing °winks°
06:23<dihedral>Forked, he means well for his patchpack
06:24<dihedral>however is not doing any work of his own
06:24<Forked>alot easier to make your own patchpack if everybody else does it for you
06:24<dihedral>but i still could imagine him spending hours on end for that thing
06:24<dihedral>Forked, nope - because not everybody will :-P
06:24<SmatZ>petern: you have to call GamelogStartAction, then you can log something (GamelogGRFUpdate, GamelogSetting) - basically anything what calls GamelogChange -, and finally call GamelogStopAction
06:24<dihedral>+ up 2 date patches does not mean they perfectly apply to an already patched source :-P
06:24*dihedral looks forward to that
06:25<Scuanor>Question: wouldnt it be nice, if one could dismiss any window just by rightclicking on its titlebar?
06:26<Scuanor>( not demanding such a change i am though, not even asking for it )
06:27<dihedral>why - because you are used to it, as your window manager supports it?
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06:28<Scuanor>dihedral: actually, no. as i use windows ;o) reason is becaue it "would" be easier and faster ( im not sure though, how that works on a mac then )
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06:29<dihedral>why do people always assume that mac's have no right click?
06:29<Scuanor>i mean, easier and faster than clicking on a tiny widget ( especially at high resolutions (?) )
06:30<dihedral>i think people are used to it, because they have to do that with every window?
06:30<Scuanor>dihedral: i do that, because i do not know better, i do remember though, theres jsut one button ( not saying there IS jsut one, just that i remember it that way )
06:30<dihedral>you have not had a lot of contact with mac's have you?
06:31<Scuanor>and such a dismissing of windows is already in the code, at the red errorwindows, right?
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06:31<Scuanor>dihedral: not really. hence my not knowing better
06:31<dihedral>can you stop highlighting me please?, i can read the lines you write perfectly well
06:31<dihedral>i know you are talking to me! :-P
06:32<dihedral>laptops just started to have the right mouse button directly available, else the system emulates it via ctrl+click
06:33<dihedral>and external mouse has expected handling
06:33<Scuanor>of course. it wasnt meant like "you need to be highlighted to know im talking to you because you dont focus" or so. i just got used to that from channels where people ask "???" at stuff that wasnt adressed to them and as this channel is pretty full always... :o)
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06:34<dihedral>thankfully those people do not reside here :-P
06:34<dihedral>and if there should be some of those guys, everybody here can still extend there ignore list ;-)
06:35<Scuanor>( i just did that, so no one else would have to do it ) ;o)
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>or even better, their ignore list!
06:35<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, yes :-P
06:35<Scuanor>or even "their ignorelist" ;oP
06:35<dihedral>but there is a setting that would be set once for all :-P
06:36<dihedral>+q :-P
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>Scuanor: where did you learn that english people would concatenate words?
06:37<Scuanor>nah, ignorelists are for weak people ;oP i rather suffer, but re-evaluate on a sentence-by-sentence base. its bad to judge people on just a mere sentence or 5
06:37*nib has verified things, seems like all is working now. Now it's back on getting the skills back up again....
06:37*nib thanx the 'crew'
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06:38<Scuanor>°looks up the word "concatenate"°
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06:38<Scuanor>ah. that is does mean.
06:39<Scuanor>it just seems natural to do so.
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but why would english people do something that appears natural?
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>they are not germans ;)
06:39<Scuanor>args. you got point there.
06:41<Scuanor>wouldn't that has to be (!) "they ain't germans"?
06:41<dihedral>Scuanor, i doubt you suffer from yourself in a way that you would add yourself to your own ignore list
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>Scuanor: no, "ain't" is AE
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>(at least that is what i learned)
06:42<dihedral>ain't no fun? :-P
06:42<Scuanor>its okay to highlight me. i have sound off.
06:42<Scuanor>AE... ah... yes, makes sense
06:43<Scuanor>sometime though, i would like to ignore what was written by me, as it comes out fidderently than i thought it out.
06:43<planetmaker>[12:17] <dihedral> <- oh my word <-- it's a fabulous article?!
06:44<Forked>it's in some foreign language me no habla comprende
06:44<Scuanor>must be spanish then
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06:45<Scuanor>no, wait, as you understand spanish, it must be... french
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06:52<Eddi|zuHause>[12:43] <planetmaker> [12:17]<dihedral> <- oh my word <-- it's a fabulous article?! <--- it looks very well written to me
06:53<Scuanor>it is. yes. sticks nicely out of the mass of degraded internet-text-posts
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06:58<Ammler>why do you need a empty, btw.?
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07:05<dihedral>planetmaker, i did not mean the article ;-)
07:06<@petern>ahh, new monitor arrived :D
07:07<dihedral>petern, \o/ what is it?
07:08<Ammler>Scuanor: the wiki says, you don't need it.
07:09<Ammler>" (As of svn r14527 the file is not required to play the game. Ofcourse, without it you will not have any sound effects.) " <-- that is wrong, but would be a good idea, imo. ;-)
07:13<Scuanor>070 still needs it, yes.
07:13<Scuanor>an empty one will do though, yes
07:15<Scuanor>something like an OpenSFX thingy would be nice then
07:16<dihedral>stuff an empty into the source :-P
07:17<Scuanor>that filename is still hardcoded? woldnt it be easier to de-reference it, if it isnt?
07:17<Scuanor>°sighs° see?
07:18<Scuanor>°tries to set himself on ignore°
07:19<Scuanor>@ <Scuanor> sometime though, i would like to ignore what was written by me, as it comes out fidderently than i thought it out.
07:19<dihedral>right - i'll help you with being added to ignore lists
07:19<dihedral>starting with my own
07:19<@petern>what is "#openttdcoop NewGRF package" doing on bananas?
07:19<dihedral>it's not the package
07:19<dihedral>it's a single grf which contains a string
07:19<Scuanor>dihedral: its noted.
07:20<dihedral>petern, it makes it easier when checking which grfpack is required to join servers
07:20<dihedral>does not really make sense to put it on bananas
07:20<Ammler>petern: not really much.
07:20<dihedral>as it's in the grfpack
07:20<@petern>ah, it doesn't provide anything anyway
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07:21<Ammler>it has Action0 code
07:21<@petern>what is the point of it?
07:21<dihedral>Ammler, tbh it makes no sense to put it up there
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07:22<dihedral> <- it's not even loaded in the current game Ammler... cute
07:22<Ammler>dihedral: read the text.
07:23<dihedral>i have - it makes no sense
07:23<dihedral>even TB had to think twice about it
07:23<Ammler>I would like to hide from the page, but dunno how.
07:24<Ammler>I just could hide it from the client.
07:24<dihedral>not really needed there anyway
07:24<dihedral>you have it in the pack, and it's only required for the pack
07:24<dihedral>and the server sends the name of the grf to the client if the client does not know the name of the grf
07:25<planetmaker>makes sort-of sense for savegames
07:25<dihedral>anyway.... it's bananas, and it does not violate any lisences :-D
07:25<dihedral>planetmaker, lovely point
07:25<planetmaker>It's the grf you can obtain from bananas. And it will direct you where to obtain the other missing ones
07:25<dihedral>however you will have issues loading the other grfs :-D
07:26<planetmaker>yes. But you'll see the grf message
07:26<dihedral>did not think in terms of savegames
07:26*Ammler still misses the web download link btw.
07:27<planetmaker>for new games it doesn't add benefit, I grant that easily :)
07:27<dihedral>Ammler, i though about a OpenTTDLib like thing to communicate with bananas for exactly that purpose :-D
07:27<Ammler>hehe, the dummy grf has a lot downloads already.
07:27<dihedral>and to show the description etc
07:31<Ammler>petern: you should rather ask what TTO graphics do on banans ;-)
07:32<Ammler>but they are licensed
07:43<@petern>where do you draw the line?
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07:43<@petern>mb and pikka both reuse parts of the original graphics, iirc
07:44<Ammler>dunno, how much needs changed to call it your own.
07:44<dihedral> <- hehe Roujin :-P
07:45*dihedral assumes Roujin is reading the logs right now
07:45<@petern>technically everything :)
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07:46<Roujin>thou assumest rightly
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07:46<Ammler>maybe it should just be renamed to something like old graphics
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07:47<Ammler>so it isn't that obvious
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07:51<dihedral>Roujin: i shall now also assume you are not supposed to be on irc when at work - and just sneak in to get rid of a comment :-P
07:51*dihedral wait's for a quick join, comment, part
07:52<Forked>he might just connect, msg and disconnect too
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07:54<@petern>is he going to stay now?
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>you are lacking the comment and part part ;)
07:54<Roujin>actually I just wanted to seem somehow mystical, after coincidentally I _did_ read the logs just right after you wrote that line
07:56<Roujin>you have some impressive instinct, guessing I'm reading the logs right at that moment... oO
07:57<Roujin>that, or a trojan on my pc *hmmmmmmm*
07:57<@petern>might not've been talking about you
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07:58<dihedral>Roujin, hehe
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08:01<dihedral>has openttd ever had a person donate money and then believe he therefor had a say in what you guys do?
08:04<Roujin>heh, I'm telling them what to do "Include my patches!" without having donated money :P
08:04<@petern>who what?
08:05<dihedral>i was just wondering if you guys ever came across that kind of person
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08:09<+glx>they can try, but no money goes to the devs :)
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08:13<planetmaker>you could start an activity like "rent a dev" ;)
08:14<planetmaker>prices start at 100€/h with minimum 4h periods ;)
08:14<dihedral>that sounds gay
08:15<planetmaker>that's capitalism. Prostitute for money :P
08:15<planetmaker>note the smileys though ;)
08:15<Ammler># New base graphics system (essential for the Graphics Replacement project) (r14197) <-- major Feature, IMO
08:17<+glx>Ammler: but not very useful for now (as many users report bugs about black boxes ;) )
08:17<Ammler>oh well :-)
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08:18<dihedral>glx: the black boxes have nothing to do with the feature, but users would not know that :-P
08:18<+glx>they just notice the black boxes when "updating" base grf
08:19<Ammler>I hope it will be finished until 0.7 release
08:19<Ammler>but the main devs already began a new project. :-)
08:19<+glx>I'm quite sure it won't :)
08:21<@Rubidium>same that the 32 bit replacement stuff will never be finished
08:21<Ammler>glx: close FIRS thread until opengfx is finished ;-)
08:23<DASPRiD>huhu pb!
08:25<dihedral>same as cargodest ;-)
08:26<+glx>probability to get finished cargodest > probability to get finished opengfx I think :)
08:26<+glx>but not for 0.7.0
08:26<Timitry>Yeah, that FIRS is really distracting, FooBar and Zephyris already contributed to that, while there is unfinished work for OpenGFX laying around...
08:26<Timitry>How can they dare! :D
08:32<Ammler>glx: I bet against
08:34<@petern>Rubidium: started, don't you mean?
08:38<Ammler>that is rude, some 32Bit graphics are awesome.
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08:42<@petern>what i've seen would not work as direct replacements
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08:43<Ammler>yeah, they more work for the zoom thing, now.
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>which is nowhere even close from getting into the main development branch...
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08:48<dihedral>glx: it's still a very vague statement (cargodest prob > opengfx prob)
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it doesn't mean anything as long as you do not add an absolute reference point
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>as in "dnf" ;)
08:55<dihedral>what were the reasons for Draakon getting warnings and in the end being banned from the forums again?
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08:56<Eddi|zuHause>what's a draakon?
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>(that was rhethorical)
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09:11<@Belugas>Draakon is banned?
09:11<@Belugas>who is draakon?
09:13<Ammler>best forum friend of dih.
09:16<+glx>it's an asshole IIRC
09:17<dihedral>he was on my server the other day
09:17<dihedral>but not for very long
09:18<dihedral>ran some rcon commands and then he decided to leave
09:18<dihedral>rcon move 12 255; reset_company 4
09:24-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*@*] by petern
09:24-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*god@*] by petern
09:24-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*anthony@*] by petern
09:30<planetmaker>do you think that that's a good idea, petern?
09:30<@petern>well, the first one was the whole isp...
09:31<@petern>if it comes back i'll be more specific
09:31<planetmaker>he's persistant, showing up with different host masks. But the exact same words betray him.
09:31<Forked>hm. I missed out
09:31<planetmaker>Not really, Forked. He's a bloody rasicst.
09:32<dihedral>planetmaker, which explains why Thraxian was never in this channel
09:32<dihedral>(same isp)
09:32<Forked>does this network have that most excellent +e mode for channels?
09:32<dihedral>i have no idea for whom that ban was :-P
09:33*dihedral is running profiling on openttd
09:34<Forked>another oldie thread up up up :)
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09:35<dihedral>yep - quite annoying
09:35<dihedral>hint hint
09:39<dihedral> <- ... wtf ... ?
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09:40<Ammler>planetmaker: that domain is already on "our" banlist
09:42<planetmaker>huh? openttdblog?
09:42<Ammler>ah, he removed the ban :-)
09:43*Rubidium dislikes most openttd 'related' blogs
09:43<Ammler>openttdblog has about 1 (or 2?) posts :-)
09:43<@petern>at least it's advocating opengfx instead of distributing the original data...
09:44<@Rubidium>most of the other blogs do EXACTLY the opposite
09:44<planetmaker>yep. With the best instruction I found so far on how to install them.
09:44<@petern>yeah, unfortunately openttd won't automatically download them if no graphics sets are found...
09:44<@petern>hmm new feature? :p
09:45<@petern>i suppose i could remove the original data from my server now...
09:45<Ammler>well, IF they would be finished, you could distribute them directly
09:45<@petern>using opengfx is not known to cause desyncs, is it?
09:45<planetmaker>not afaik
09:45<planetmaker>which doesn't mean much, though :P
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09:51<kjetil>oh really
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10:11<planetmaker>one out of best of Allain:
10:12<Forked>he could be a master in c++ programming by now.. if only he spent his time on that rather than digging around on page 551 in that section of the forum :\
10:12<Roest>i guess my forum ignore file will get a second entry after drakon
10:13<planetmaker>I'm not sure whom I add 2nd after SirXavius: NekoMaster or him
10:14<@Rubidium>planetmaker: BOTH
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10:14<@Rubidium>and don't forget batti5
10:14<planetmaker>haven't seen the latter lately.
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10:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15514 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix: make the join/spectate command require to be connected to a network game; in SP it could lead to crashes.
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10:28<Eddi|zuHause>interesting bug ;)
10:30<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> haven't seen the latter lately. <- i have stumbled across the line "this post of batti5 is currently ignored" lately
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that was only because of alains digs though
10:31<planetmaker>probably... He now asks in pm what to do with the boost zip file he downloaded! arg
10:31<@Rubidium>eat it?
10:32<@Rubidium>oh... he's using windows, right?
10:32<planetmaker>yeah. Good advice. I think that's a decent answer he could get :)
10:32<@Rubidium>he should 'plug it and pray to it'
10:32<planetmaker>hehe :)
10:32<Ammler>pm, now you need to addmit, that you aren't able to compile cargodest self, either ;-)
10:32<planetmaker>I guess I'll send him another link to letmegoogleitforyou
10:32<planetmaker>Ammler: yes :)
10:33<planetmaker>I haven't tried with my new install yet, though
10:33<planetmaker>But the difference, Ammler, is: I know it's my path settings for include and lib.
10:33<Ammler>he should ask Truebrain, if he adds the patchpack to the compile farm.
10:33<planetmaker>He doesn't know what to do with a zip :P
10:33<planetmaker>He already asked where and how he could upload it to openttd...
10:35<Roest>his pm's stopped after i didn't answer anymore
10:37<planetmaker>he... probably a good idea :)
10:37<planetmaker>For now he got another reference to RTFM.
10:47<Roujin_>he asked me once where he could read up on what all the c++ stuff means..
10:48<Roujin_>I just pm'd him the google result page for "c++ tutorial"...
10:48<planetmaker>It's incredible what kind of things he asks...
10:49<planetmaker>Well... certainly I also ask stupid questions from time to time :)
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10:59<energetic>"discussion of realism is now a quietable offense"?
11:00<NukeBuster|laptop>He said the r word ;-)
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11:06<energetic>i quoted it :D
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11:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you're right. Batti is stilll active...
11:14<@Rubidium>too much information!
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11:15<planetmaker> <--- hehe
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11:20<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> he should 'plug it and pray to it' <- plug & pray? you might have spent too much time in Japan :)
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11:26<+glx>no that's p'n'p on windows
11:27<+glx>mostly on win9x though
11:27<planetmaker>and he starts to make suggestions again on how you devs should decide on what you work on :D
11:27<@Belugas>who ? when? why? where?
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11:28<@Belugas>true.. forgot that one
11:28<planetmaker>Belugas: your friend batti5
11:29<@Belugas>ho... him...
11:30<@Belugas>he's a good guy, truely. his motivation is high, just the means are not totally there
11:30<@Belugas>if you see what i mean...
11:30<@Belugas>and he does not have a very good idea on how the development works. he pretty much think we are accepting everything and are working on all suggestions
11:30<@Belugas>last time i checked, anyway
11:38<planetmaker>Belugas: yeah. That doesn't seem to have changed :)
11:40<planetmaker>but probably you're right in that he's probably more naive than nasty :)
11:41<@Belugas>that's my perception, anyway
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i have the feeling that dosbox is slow...
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>anyone familiar enough with dosbox to tell me whether there is a switch for "double" resolution?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>dosbox windows tend to get really tiny ;)
11:43<SmatZ>there is (I am almost sure about that)
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>is that possible to enable while running?
11:45<SmatZ>I don't know - try ctrl+F1 to show key binds
11:45<SmatZ>maybe there is a key shortcut for that
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>that shows a confusing screen with a keyboard layout (which is not even german)
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm, now i killed it...
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>there is the setting, but i cannot get it to actually multiply the window size
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12:43<Maarten>Congrats on 0.7.0-beta1, quite an accomplishment :)
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13:12<Ammler>do the Maarten Servers still exists?
13:13<Ammler>(or do I have someone else in mind?)
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13:16<@Belugas>I've got GEORGIA on my mind...
13:16<+glx>missing # ;)
13:17<@Belugas>yeah :D
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>a propos georgia... wasn't there supposed to be a dead like me movie?
13:17<+glx>dunno, but the show was nice
13:21<@Belugas>dunno what you are all talking
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13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15515 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-18 18:31:54
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 10 fixed, 1 changed by Ludslad (11)
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 6 fixed by ferrerow (6)
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 11 fixed by Ar4i (11)
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 13 changed by alyr (13)
13:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 3 fixed by adjayanto (3)
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14:06<Alberth>hello Wolf01
14:09<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
14:09<@Belugas>hello Alberth
14:09<@Belugas>hello Belugas
14:09<Wolf01>hello Alberth
14:09<Wolf01>hello Belugas
14:09<Wolf01>hello Wolf01
14:09<Alberth>Good evening Belugas
14:09<Alberth>Wolf01: speaking to self?
14:09<Alberth>I see we have new rules
14:10<Alberth>got tired of the discussion, I guess
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>we have rules?
14:12<@Belugas>I HAVE TWO. one in cm, the other in inches
14:12<Wolf01>are they long the same?
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>weird, i once had one which had both scales
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>and i never ever used the inch scale...
14:13<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you should move to a country with inches :)
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>Roest: i fail to see the relevance
14:14<Roest>not for the current conversation, but hilarious statement imo
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14:15<NukeBuster|laptop>Alain2007 has very similar posts...
14:16<Wolf01>I have one with 5 scales, I use that to measure the rows and columns for a pre-printed paper with text fields :D
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14:16<@Rubidium> <- finally a good reason to take a pet
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>EULAs are void in germany anyway, they are not viewable when you purchase a product, so they cannot be part of the contract
14:19<Roest>my cats only order cat food online :(
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's a beautiful cat, anyway
14:27<Wolf01>eulas are void in italy too, here you should sign a contract with your signature, not with a button... but many do these things (phone companies for first) and you'll get literally fucked :)
14:27<Sacro>i doubt literally fucked
14:29<Wolf01>here when you want assistance, replacement of the item or something like it, you have 75% of probability that the dealer will place you on a table, bent at 90° and without pants
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14:44<@Belugas>beautiful cat?
14:44<@Belugas>cute maybe?
14:56<el_en>in other words, nice pussy
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14:56<Noldo>har har
15:03<Maarten>Ammler: Yes, they are running on 0.7.0-beta1 (sorry delayed reaction)
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15:12<frosch123>I assume noone here has a testgrf for livery-override for road vehicles
15:18<@Belugas>now that is a cute cat ->
15:18<Wolf01>ooooh your wonderful and giant cat :D
15:18<el_en>your >1280-pixel high cat
15:19*Prof_Frink gets out his captioning kit
15:21<@Belugas>yup yup
15:21<@Belugas>nice as a background image on the desktop :D
15:21<@Belugas>two screens of furr and beauty!
15:22<Prof_Frink>"fur and beauty"? What is this? #tycoon?
15:24<@Belugas>got contaminated? ;P
15:28<Alberth>My parents had a cat for as long as I can remember, I am hooked for life, I am afraid :)
15:30<el_en>allow me to paste my first and last ice hockey-related link:
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15:31<Prof_Frink>They call 'im Bjarni, 'cause that's 'is name
15:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15516 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix (r10097): Livery overrides for articulated parts of roadvehicles were not applied.
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15:37<@Belugas>Alberth, this is our very first cat. before that, we had dwarf rabbits and canaries. So let's call it a "big" change for us :) and yes, we are totally infatuated :D
15:37<@Bjarni>Belugas got a cat
15:38<@Bjarni>I knew he had a thing for pussies :P
15:40<Wolf01>oh a Bjarni
15:40<el_en>Semi-Master Bjarni
15:40<Alberth>Belugas: The current cat of my parents is 18+ years old, so all she does is sleep all day, have some food, and sleep more :)
15:40<@Bjarni>"a Bjarni"?
15:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15517 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#2642](r6455): Wagonoverrides and articulated engine parts use the colour scheme of the engine, but not its recolour callback, nor its 2CC flag. Same applies to roadvehicles.
15:40<@Bjarni>there can be only one
15:40<murr4y>The Bjarninator
15:41<el_en>hmm, that quote would indicate Bjarni has actually watched a movie.
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>you can easily know that quote without ever having seen the movie that is quoted
15:43-!-NightKhaos [] has joined #openttd
15:43<@Bjarni>but I do have it... somewhere
15:43<@Bjarni>... on VHS
15:43<el_en>Christopher Lambert is a native french speaker, btw.
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15:46<NightKhaos>Ahh got it setup.
15:47<@Belugas>chaotic arrival, to say the least ;)
15:47<Wolf01>OpenTTD: someone * r20000 /trunk/src (too much files): -Fix (r1): fixed a bug which avoided do develop new features such custom bridge heads, bridges over bridges, fully flexible tunnels, new map array, Belugas for president, petern and Rubidium too for their own countries, underground stations, signals on bridges, tunnels and junction tiles... [10 more lines]
15:47<NightKhaos>Well I'm here now.
15:47<KingJ>Amazing, i've somehow managed to fit 10,000 people into a bus stop
15:47<NightKhaos>reason I'm here is any advice on a project I'm starting...
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15:48<frosch123>"0.7.0beta1 is not stable enough, I am going to switch back to the nightly and wait for beta2" <- quite comprehensible...
15:49<@Bjarni>nightly builds tend to be much more stable than betas :P
15:50<NightKhaos>Basically it's going to be a fully functioning custom map, which will include preexisting rail network, tram network, etc. It'll use the DB set, TTTv3, and a few other GRFs.
15:50<NightKhaos>Bjarni: odd...
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15:51<NightKhaos>Well you'd think nightlies would be UNSTABLE... lol
15:51<NightKhaos>anyway brb
15:51<@Bjarni>I was being ironic....
15:51<@Bjarni>actually people comment on how stable our unstable builds tend to be
15:52<Sacro>Wolf01: damn i thought that was real for a minute
15:52<@Bjarni>looks like it takes too little to fool Sacro o_O
15:53<Wolf01>and I did not use words like pr0n, xxx and sex
15:53<@Bjarni>I bet Sacro updated his source and compiled only to discover that nothing changed in the game :P
15:53<Sacro>Bjarni: i read the message and not the poster
15:53<NightKhaos>So any advice for my project?
15:53<Sacro>NightKhaos: don't let Bjarni help
15:53<Sacro>he breaks things
15:53<Wolf01>especially the part of making people president, eh?
15:54<@Bjarni>Sacro: if you refer to yourself as a thing then yes after that statement
15:54<Sacro>actually, now i have a macbook i need his 'expertise' to get it working :(
15:55<NightKhaos>I take it by cheating I can take control of the other AI's when I get to the station building stage, and build competing networks, or rather "local networks" and a "nationalised rail"
15:55<Prof_Frink>Sacro: You're fallen to the shiny side of the force?
15:55<Sacro>Prof_Frink: oh yes :)
15:55<Sacro><3 my macbook
15:56<NightKhaos>Hehe... I'd have the build the entire network in pause mode too. That'll be fun.
15:56<Prof_Frink>I prefer the dark side personally.
15:56*lolman is happy with Arch :p
15:57<@Bjarni><Sacro> <3 my macbook <-- normally people <3 other people, but just as long as you do not inform me of what you do with it, I don't care
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15:57<Sacro>Bjarni: i lay on my bed and rub it against myself
15:58*lolman is not using Sacro's MacBook ever again.
15:58<@Bjarni>do you feel hot while doing so?
15:58<Wolf01>last words of sacro were "grab your dick and double click" so I don't expect anything normal
15:58<Sacro>Bjarni: oh yes
15:58<@Bjarni>I don't want to know
15:58<Sacro>and wtf does 'quietable' mean?
15:58<@Bjarni>Wolf01: LOL, did he say that recently? I missed that
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15:59<lolman>Sacro: that's an orudge-ism, or sounds like one
15:59<@Bjarni>Sacro: it means that "it" is able to be quiet... go figure :P
16:00<@Bjarni>waiting for compilers sucks
16:02<Prof_Frink><insert xkcd here>
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16:02<@Bjarni>I'm thinking about the assignment I got today while I wait
16:02<@Bjarni>it's a stupid one :(
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16:04<NightKhaos>Stage 1, build the landscape, planning the rail/tram/stations as I go. Stage 2, build the rail/tram networks with rail. Stage 3, build and route plan buses/trucks/trams, Stage 4, build (using temporary depots) all of the trains at "useful" starting positions and route plan, Stage 5, delete temp depots, replace with rail and signals... and then I'd be done. Wahoo!
16:04<NightKhaos>When I put it like that... it seems easy. -_-
16:07<NightKhaos>For the planning and building stage, i.e. Stage 1, I'll need two different sessions open, so that I can quickly save the draft, and build the station, see how it looks, then I'll have to somehow "note" how I have built that station... either by a screenie or labeling every tile... probably labelling.
16:07<@Bjarni>it is easy
16:07<NightKhaos>Both would be more effiecent.
16:07<@Bjarni>I think
16:07<Eddi|zuHause><el_en> Christopher Lambert is a native french speaker, btw. <- i'm very bad with connecting names to faces, which one is christopher lambert?
16:08<@Bjarni>but it's nowhere fast to do
16:08<NightKhaos>Bjarni: I know... I know... but is the a way I can build a network... while STILL working on the terrian?
16:10<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: LOL, when you say it like that you remind me of when I called for a taxi and requested it to show up at station X on the east side and the lady in the phone went "I'm very bad with world directions. Can you tell me if it is the side with ..." and it sounded like she was reading that like she was told to say it like that
16:10<@Bjarni>it sounded so fake
16:10<@Bjarni>like they think people calling can't figure it out but they don't want to tell people that
16:11<NightKhaos>*sigh* doesn't look like it.
16:11<NightKhaos>Oh wells.
16:11<@Bjarni>NightKhaos: well.... you need a whole lot of cash and then there is terraforming
16:11<NightKhaos>Bjarni: aye... and building cities and primary industry.
16:11<@Bjarni>but you can't make the map in the scenario editor and then build tracks and then go back to the editor
16:12<NightKhaos>That's what I thought.
16:13<NightKhaos>So I'd need to record my "plans" for each "custom station" and any significant rail networks somehow on the map, probably using signs, and screenies.
16:14<NightKhaos>And build up the map in one go, then when I'm happy, I go an actually PUT the planned track/stations in it.
16:14<NightKhaos>A nightmare for a large map.
16:15<NightKhaos>Doable though
16:16<NightKhaos>I do wonder I I have used to many GRFs
16:17<@petern>if you don't know what they all do, then yes
16:17<NightKhaos>Oh I know what they do...
16:17<NightKhaos>It's just, there are a lot
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16:22<@petern>tiff? haha
16:22<NightKhaos>pfft. default "grab"
16:22<NightKhaos>I would change to ",png" but CBF
16:23<De_Ghost> or
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16:23<De_Ghost>you can make butt load of monery
16:23<De_Ghost>and do it in game
16:23<NightKhaos>Primary Industry and Cities?
16:24<NightKhaos>Can't build Primary Industry and Cities where I want them.
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>is that like a monastery?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>NightKhaos: there is a "found a town" patch, and there is a setting for funding primary industries directly
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16:27<NightKhaos>Hmm... useful... but what about laying rocky ground, and starting with no towns?
16:27<el_en>[23:07] <Eddi|zuHause> <el_en> Christopher Lambert is a native french speaker, btw. <- i'm very bad with connecting names to faces, which one is christopher lambert? <-- highlander, connor macleod
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>of course, giving another name will help with the whole name problem...
16:28<el_en>want me to draw his portrait in ascii art?
16:29<NightKhaos>Honestly, given what I want to do, it'll be easier, (not by much through) to do it this way...
16:29<Wolf01> <- ascii art to picture :D
16:32<@Bjarni>isn't it McLeod?
16:33<@Bjarni>no, they added the a
16:33<@Bjarni>that's funny
16:33<@Bjarni>he is supposed to have this name from Scotland so I would have presumed the McLeod spelling
16:33<Wolf01> <- it is MacLeod
16:34<@Bjarni>but maybe they didn't think the Americans would understand such a spelling
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16:48<dihedral>thank you for the fix Rubidium
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16:53<Felicitus>one simple question about squirrel: how exactly does try/catch work in the squirrel context? i tried try { expression(); } catch (e) { print (e); }, but whenexer expression() throws an exception, it doesn't get catched...what am i missing?
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16:55<dihedral>is it not documented in the squirrel docs?
16:55<NightKhaos>Wow you can make the cities real big...
16:55<NightKhaos>I got one city covering a 512/512 map
16:55<Felicitus>dihedral: well, the squirrel documentation is...uhm...some kind of meta-documentation :)
16:56<dihedral>i know the squirrel docs ;-)
16:56<Felicitus>try/catch is documented as: stat:= 'try' stat 'catch' '(' id ')' stat
16:57<Yexo>Felicitus: The code you posted should work, so I'm doing some tests right now
16:57<Felicitus>hey Yexo
16:57<Yexo>hello Felicitus
16:58<Felicitus>hmm it seems that the exception is catched, but somehow the engine still puts out an error
16:58<@Rubidium>no AI seems to be using catch
16:58<Felicitus>maybe it's a problem on the openttd side, not the squirrel language
16:58<Yexo>Felicitus: that's very good possible
16:58<Felicitus>Rubidium: yes. i need the try/catch for my station builder, as it is heavily OO based
16:59<Yexo>Rubidium: I remember someone using it, but there were some problems with printing the call stack iirc
16:59<Yexo>Felicitus: it seems to work here as expected
17:00<Yexo>the exception is catched, but also printed in red in the debug panel
17:00<Felicitus>let me check
17:00<TinoDidriksen>Argh...two people. catched ... caught.
17:00<Felicitus>TinoDidriksen: you are right ;)
17:00<Felicitus>maybe i got confused by all the red stuff in the console
17:02<NightKhaos>How big should I make my map?
17:02<Yexo> <- test ai, the funciton "test" does not exists
17:02<Yexo>output: a, b, (in red: stack), d, (in black: error message), e
17:03<Felicitus>yes, it works when i put the construct in my main function, but for some reason it doesn't work in the statio builder code
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17:05<Yexo>Felicitus: can you provide some code were it doesn't work as you expect (preferably as small as possible?)
17:05<@Belugas>booo.. bye
17:05<Felicitus>hmm what happens if i try to build a station in test mode and ERR_PRECONDITION_FAILED occured? the function is supposed to return true or false, right?
17:06<Yexo>it'll return false
17:06<NightKhaos>Do you think 512x512 is to small?
17:06<Felicitus>yes, false in that case, of course
17:07<Yexo>but in general a precondition can be due to 3 things: 1) An error in your AI (most likely) 2) A user changes companies (via cheats) and is messing with your AI. 3) You've got very bad luck, ie some vehicle you're trying to clone has just dissappeared.
17:08<Felicitus>no, most probably the preconidion fails because my ai is trying to build a station where something is in the way
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17:10<Yexo>Felicitus: that is no precondition
17:10<Yexo> <- see there for a list of things that can cause a precondition error
17:10<Felicitus>oh yes, you are right
17:11<Felicitus>well, the station builder does an assertion on the function, and throws an exception if the assert failed. and then the script stops, instead of being caught
17:11<Felicitus>so i'm trying to debug if it is maybe a problem in my script
17:14<Felicitus>i think i got something
17:14<Felicitus>Yexo, can you have a look at ?
17:16<Felicitus>something is odd here
17:17<Yexo>pasting the lines "local test = B(); untill 'end of script'" in the Start function, and it prints "Should jump into there" just as expected
17:17<Felicitus>yes, i noticed that also after i ran the script a second time
17:18<Felicitus>i am pretty confused right now
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17:26<Felicitus>hmm, is there a size restriction of the AI debug console?
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17:34<NightKhaos>My god this looks pretty crap right now...
17:35<NightKhaos>let me get a screenshot ;)
17:35<Felicitus>HA i think i found the problem :)
17:36<Felicitus>if i'm in test mode, and test-build a rail track, and then would try to place a signal on the rail track - it would always fail, because the rail track isn't actually built, right?
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17:42<Yexo>Felicitus: that's right
17:42<Felicitus>and it would raise ERR_PRECONDITION_FAILED?
17:43<Felicitus>YIKES! damn. i tricked myself :(
17:44<Yexo> <- as can be seen here, a precondition for BuildSignal is IsRailTile(itle)
17:44<Felicitus>if the program is better than the programmer ;)
17:44<Yexo>IsRailTile(tile) fails if you didn't build it yet (in execute mode), so it'll indeed raise an ERR_PRECONDITION_ERROR
17:45<Felicitus>actually the exception i was expecting at the one point as actually never thrown :(
17:45<Zuu>Yexo: Impresive to see your AI doing some teraforming for placeing road stops :-)
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17:45<Yexo>thanks Zuu :)
17:46<Felicitus>because another exception was caught at another place due to the signal placement :(
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>something is wrong with my mouse...
17:46<Felicitus>eddi: cat? :)
17:46<Zuu>My AI easily win the competition of number of stations in the first months, unfortunally that is not what the game is about. ... :-)
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>the mouse pointer moves when i move the mouse, but when i click somewhere, it takes the click always at the same position
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>also, the mouse-move-focus does not work anymore
17:47<Felicitus>Eddi|zuHause: sounds more like an OS problem than a hardware problem :)
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17:48<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:48<Yexo>hello Nite_Owl
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17:48<Nite_Owl>Hello Yexo
17:49<Nite_Owl>Hello dihedral (yes - I have become accustom to the Owl sounds)
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17:52<Eddi|zuHause>restarting X did obviously not help
17:52<Felicitus>does it work again ?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>what part of "does not help" is ambiguous?
17:53<Felicitus>i guessed that you did a complete reboot
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, doing that now
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>appears to be better now
18:02<Felicitus>thats odd
18:03<Felicitus>nevermind :)
18:04<dihedral>usb handling
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: yes, but even after a reboot?
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>and moving the mouse pointer for one operation, but not the other?
18:05<dihedral>what you do in the end?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's definitely the weirdest experience i had since... i "discarded" windows
18:05<dihedral>+ you used a windows method to fix the issue
18:05<Felicitus>i have to admit (and i really like linux better) that vista runs pretty well for the business
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>i shut down the computer, unplugged the USB reciever, took the batteries out of the mouse
18:06<dihedral>yes ok
18:06<Felicitus>i remember such a thing also, now that you mentioned a wireless mouse :)
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>the other one was "only" a soft reboot
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18:07<Eddi|zuHause>the batteries are down so quicly, the "wireless" part is not even true most of the times...
18:08<Felicitus>i used one of these wireless logitech mouses (that one which was shaped like an egg) like 10 years ago
18:08<Felicitus>since then i never touched a wireless mouse again :)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>the technology evolved since 10 years ago ;)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i have a wireless logitech mouse here, too
18:08<Felicitus>but it seems to have similar problems :)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>it might be even older than 10 years
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>but it's not the one that i use right now
18:09<Felicitus>i had to replace batteries very often and sometimes the cursor did crazy things
18:09<Felicitus>but the worst thing was the keyboard
18:09<Felicitus>some keys sometimes didnt respond, others did
18:10<Nite_Owl>the only problem with wireless stuff comes when your system has a problem and the drivers do not get loaded properly
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>the only real problem that i have, when the mouse is recharging, it appears to drain power from the reciever, so it loses reception range
18:11<Nite_Owl>you then are forced to resort to wired stuff to restore the system
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i know that problem, sometimes the reciever does not initialise itself on startup, so i sometimes can't get to the boot menu or the bios setup when i shut down improperly
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's usually fine when i soft reboot, or when i shut down properly
18:12<Zuu>Hmm, it helps to run the correct OpenTTD installation when trying out changes to ones AI :-D
18:12<Nite_Owl>I will stayed wired for now
18:13<Yexo>Zuu: hehe :) What were you trying? 0.6.3?
18:14<Zuu>Nope, trunk, but my "clean trunk" installation which uses the standard config file and stuff. My "last nightly" installation has an own config file and own AI directories.
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18:45<Zuu>LOL: those Handely Page H.P.42 planes that PAXLink love to build when it has little money runs at same speed when broken down as when not broken down :-)
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18:50<Felicitus>i didnt knew that
18:50<Felicitus>never play with planes :)
18:50<Zuu>It goes in 167 km/h
18:50<Zuu>* 1/4 which is really slow
18:51<Felicitus>oh well
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18:51<Felicitus>by the way, i noticed a funny thing in multiplayer
18:51<Felicitus>everybody can rename the vehicles in the vehicle list
18:51<Felicitus>so you can confuse people
18:52<Zuu>Now, that is an interesting MP trick :)
18:52<Felicitus>i don't know if the rename is still global for all players in 0.7.0, but in 0.6.3 its valid
18:52<Felicitus>i love to rename the paper truck in subarctic to "toilet paper truck" :)
18:52<Felicitus>but others love to rename similar looking trains
18:52<Felicitus>and cargo waggons
18:55<Zuu>Poor AdmiralAI, built a truck crasher for its own trucks :)
18:55<Zuu>At least with advanced signals the road crossing goes red much earlier.
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18:57<Felicitus>thats crazy - a router/switch manufacturer named a switch "pizzaport"
19:12<Felicitus>Yexo: are you still here?
19:12<Yexo>I'm still here
19:12<Felicitus>i'm wondering why exceptions are printed in the console if they were caught
19:13<@Rubidium>probably because exceptions are printed once thrown instead of when not caught by the AI
19:13<Yexo>iirc it wan't possible to disable printing it when the error was caught. It was either printing all of them or printing no errors at all
19:14<Felicitus>thats a little problem for me :)
19:14<Felicitus>seems that i have to avoid exceptions
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19:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15518 /trunk/src/ (npf.cpp pathfind.h ship_cmd.cpp yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp): -Fix [FS#2631]: use distance to closest station tile as estimate for YAPF too (NPF already does so). This makes it behave 'better' with wide stations.
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19:26<Felicitus>hmm...would it be possible to add a method to AIError to temporarly suspend printing exception messages to the console? Something like AIError.debugExceptions(true|false) ?
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19:33<Yexo>Felicitus: that is possible, but imo unwanted behaviour
19:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>the ignore function on the forum goes not far enough... by... err... far...
19:34<@Rubidium>tlue vely tlue
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>i do not want threads of ignored persons to appear on the forum listing
19:35-!-OwenS [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>and i want to ignore any threads which have "mac os" in their title
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>and i want to ignore certain subforums...
19:35<@Rubidium>like suggestions?
19:36-!-lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, anything that is tempting to click on it, when it says "new posts here"
19:36<Felicitus>Yexo: the problem is, my station builder uses alot of this.assert2(this.BuildRailTrack(-1,0, 2)); - and assert2 simply throws an exception if the tile cannot be built, so i can catch that exception later and see if something went wrong. the other way would be to add an if-check to each of the build steps, but that is alot of overhead for the programmer
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19:37<Eddi|zuHause>Felicitus: asserts are not for exception handling
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>asserts are for programming mistakes
19:37<Yexo>Felicitus: "if (!functioncall()) return false;" or "this.assert2(functioncall());" <- not much difference
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>not for checking
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19:37<Felicitu1>Eddi|zuHause: i know. but its easiest to throw an exception in the assert2 method
19:38<Yexo>and about not printing the call stack: as some point someone will forget to enable it again and his AI will crashing without him knowing
19:38<Felicitu1>hmm good point
19:39<Felicitu1>but to print out each and every exception is also a littlebit overflows the debug console even if the exceptions are caught
19:40<Felicitu1>and to make things worse, the ai debug console seems to limit at some point - that's why i didnt see my debug print statements and because of that i got confused, failing to see that the real problem is at another position
19:40<Yexo>you can redirect the output to the ingame console, that one has a much higher limit (it won't split messages from other AIs though)
19:41<Yexo>and if you really think exceptions generate too much output, simply don't use them :p
19:41<Felicitu1>yes, but it seems that the ingame console doesn't receive print() and AILog.*-messages
19:41<Felicitu1>well, i really have no clue how to solve it cleanly. exceptions provide a pretty nice control flow at that point
19:41<Yexo>use "debug_level ai=5" first
19:42<Yexo>and mind that using print() is discouraged
19:43<Felicitu1>yes, i use it only for quick debug hacks
19:43<Yexo>it works now, but it's not in the api docs, and if the regression test didn't use it I'd already have removed it
19:43<Felicitu1>ah okay, now i got the stuff in the ingame console. that helps
19:44<Felicitu1>but i have to avoid exceptions now...makes no sense to spam any log full with caught exceptions :(
19:44<Felicitu1>that least 20 statements per station type wrapped around with if's :(
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19:46<@Rubidium>why does this make me think of people coding like:
19:47<Felicitus>thats really horrible
19:48<Felicitus>that's how it look in the station builder:
19:49<Felicitus>the station builder supports a test mode, which makes assert2 to throw an exception, avoiding to execute the other build statements because they are not needed anymore, and the test returns false
19:49<Yexo>Felicitus: I still fail to see the problem with "if (!function) return false;" there
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>eh? "who needs len(array) when you can catch boundary exception"?
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19:50<SmatZ>hehe :)
19:50<Felicitus>Yexo: of course, it's valid, but the station you see there is just a simple station...imagine a larger station, wrapping each and every build command with an if is well...impractical
19:50<@Rubidium>doesn't look nicer?
19:50<Yexo>so instead of wrapping every buid command with an if you have no problem wrapping it with "this.assert2"?
19:51<Felicitus>good point yexo
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>the funny thing about that is, it will also catch out-of-bounds exceptison in "ToString()", and you'll never know
19:51<Felicitus>Rubidium: does it stop executing the calls if one of them returns false?
19:52<SmatZ>:-D @ Eddi
19:52<Yexo>Felicitus: yes it does
19:52<Felicitus>thats an idea
19:52<Felicitus>and it would be easy to implement in the station parser
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19:54<Felicitus>oh that now that i talk of it: it isn't possible to write to external files with the AI, right? because i dump the commands required for the station to the console, but everything is prefixed with dbg: [ai] [1] [P]
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>you can redirect the ingame console to a file
19:55<Yexo>you can use a simple sed script to rememove that prefix
19:55<@Rubidium>| sed 's/dbg: .ai. .1. .P.//'
19:55<Felicitus>oh thanks
19:56<Felicitus>i'm not into regular expressions at all
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>that's alright, you could as well use AWK ;)
19:56<@Rubidium>or perl
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, technically, perl is one huge regexp :p
19:58<@Rubidium>or cut
19:59<@Rubidium>or any text editor with block selection
20:00<Felicitus>i think block selection is on the wishlist for eclipse for a very long time
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, night
20:01<Felicitus>good night
20:02<Felicitus>block selection is on the wishlist for eclipse since 2002 :)
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20:09<Yexo>good night all
20:11<Felicitus>good night Yexo
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20:16*Sacro headbangs
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20:52<welshdragon>anybody here that can help me with PBS?
20:52<welshdragon>i think i may have done it wrong xD
20:52<Elukka>what are you having problems with?
20:53<welshdragon>-i'll show you
20:53<Sacro>welshdragon: course you've done it wrong
20:53<Sacro>'tard :P
20:53<Sacro>mwahahaha :D
20:53<welshdragon>way to gett me back for earlier Sacro
20:54<Sacro>i forgot about earlier
20:55*Sacro yawns
20:56*Sacro cuddles up to Belugas
20:56<welshdragon>Elukka, < ALL PLATFORRMS ARE BI DIRECTIONAL
20:56<welshdragon>oops, caps
20:57<Elukka>umm, it's way too small to see the signals
20:57<Elukka>but i'll show what i did
20:57<welshdragon>it shouldn't be
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20:57<Sacro>facebook has compressed the image
20:57<Elukka>see beathwaite springs
20:57<Elukka>normal PBS signals towards the station platform in both ends
20:58<Elukka>the one-ways on the outgoing and incoming tracks are only to make sure they dont go on the wrong rails
20:58<Felicitus>that reminds me of getting started with pbs :)
20:58<Elukka>pbs is easier than normal signals
20:58<Elukka>in my experience anyway
20:59<Felicitus>i only placed 2 pbs in my whole life :)
20:59<Felicitus>so far
21:00<Felicitus>but i dont think there's a way around pbs for my ai :)
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21:03<welshdragon>Elukka, thanks, uit worked
21:04<welshdragon>noew to resatrt services :)
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21:45*Sacro peruses the gsoc site
21:48*Sacro goes to bed
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 19 00:00:33 2009