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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-23

---Logopened Mon Feb 23 00:00:57 2009
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01:52<dihedral>morning
01:53<Felicitus>morning dihedral
01:53<smeding>o/
01:53<Felicitus>morning smeding
01:53<smeding>greetings
01:55<RS-SM>?
01:58<Alberth>RS-SM: people are friendly here, and wish each other a good day
01:58<RS-SM>oh happy day
01:58<smeding>OH HAPPY DAY! \o/
01:58<smeding>praise the LORD \o/
01:59<RS-SM>hugs!
02:00<smeding>i prefer caffeine now
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02:06<smeding>ahh, caffeine, far more soul-saving than jesus ever was for me
02:08<Alberth>yeah, browsed most news, done the 1 email I had to do, time for some coffee
02:08<smeding>you have your priorities all mixed up
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02:10<db48x>indeed
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02:17<Alberth>i was still having breakfast
02:17<smeding>so you're missing a major food group
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03:30<dihedral>could .htignore and .gitignore include a pattern to ignore all .svn folders?
03:31<dihedral>when doing an hg init in an svn working copy you can screw stuff up pretty nicely if you have the .svn folders in the hg repository
03:36<Alberth>I simply add them to the hg files, and thus have hg managed svn files. Works quite nicely, since I never change svn files anyway, except for update, in which case I have to update the hg files anyway.
03:37<dihedral>you have various hg branches i take it?
03:38<Alberth>alternatively, you could have a look in doing hg management of svn controlled projects. their Wiki has a page on them. The ultimate is hgpullsvn which makes a hg copy of the svn repo.
03:38<Alberth>yes, one 'trunk' clone of the hg of trunk, and local clones of that clone for each branch
03:38<Alberth>s/branch/patch/
03:38<dihedral>?
03:39<dihedral>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttd; cd openttd; hg init
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03:40<Alberth>no, a clone of the public hg openttd trunk
03:40<dihedral>yes, i know what you mean
03:40<dihedral>but that is not what i mean
03:41<dihedral>and if you clone the trunk hg repo, you dont have .svn folders
03:41<Alberth>I did what you propose with bzr before we had the hg mirror.
03:42<Alberth>in your case you do have the .svn folders, which is not a problem since you never use them
03:42<dihedral>??
03:42<dihedral>svn up
03:42<dihedral>then try overwriting the important data in the .svn folder
03:43<dihedral>and you pretty much screwed up
03:43<Alberth>why would you want to write in .svn?
03:43<dihedral>which can happen if you change to another branch in hg
03:43<dihedral>Alberth, are you at all reading?
03:44<Alberth>yes, but I don't understand what you aim for, I think
03:44<dihedral>if you have .svn folders in the hg repo (hg repo is _inside_ svn working copy, or rather, the working copy _is_ the hg repo)
03:44<dihedral>again: svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttd; cd openttd; hg init
03:44<Alberth>what is the problem with that?
03:44<dihedral>you overwrite .svn folders
03:44<dihedral>as soon as you have added the files to the hg repo and switch around branches
03:45<dihedral>sorry - let me ask another way - do you understand what i am trying to do?
03:46<Alberth>with the .svn folders in the hg repo?
03:46<dihedral>that is what happens if you do an hg add and have no ignore for .svn folders ;-)
03:47<Alberth>sorry, but I don't understand the problem. When you make a branch, you also copy the .svn folders, so switching a branch also switches the .svn files
03:47<Alberth>why is that bad?
03:47<dihedral>you then over time have new revs so you do an svn up
03:47<dihedral>if you then switch around your hg branches, you also overwrite .svn folders
03:47<Alberth>no, you merge from the main hg
03:48<dihedral>you mean the default branch?
03:48<Alberth>yes
03:48<dihedral>yes of course you do that!
03:48<dihedral>the prob is with overwriting .svn folders which you do when you switch around
03:48<Alberth>with that merge, the .svn folders also get updated
03:48<dihedral>when you do so, you can fuck up the working copy
03:49<Alberth>you want to work with svn as well?
03:49<dihedral>....
03:49<dihedral>Alberth, wait a second please, i will get you a url ;-)
03:50<Alberth>if you do changes with svn without telling hg, you 'll mess up indeed. So don't do that :)
03:50<dihedral>http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/WorkingWithSubversion
03:51<dihedral>Alberth, you are so not getting the point
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03:52<dihedral>Alberth, just from the first block of code you should get the picture
03:54<Alberth>you seem to keep .svn stuff out of hg
03:55<dihedral>else you muddle up the working copy
03:55<dihedral>hence i asked if the ignore pattern could be added to the .hgignore file which is in trunk/
03:59<Alberth>I think it is the other way around. Suppose we don't copy the .svn folder into hg. you make a few branches in hg (that svn knows nothing about), and switch between them. With each switch, the .svn files are not touched, so you get 'real' files and the .svn meta-data out of sync with each other.
04:00<dihedral>no
04:01<dihedral>you should not touch the .svn folders
04:01<Alberth>ok, let's assume that
04:01<dihedral>i managed to screw that stuff up and it can get a whole bunch of fun trying to rescue your patches out of the hg repo
04:01<dihedral>and it screwed up exactly because the .svn folders were in the hg repo
04:02<dihedral>if you svn up, that is your svn base for svn diff
04:03<Alberth>huh? (let me give a counter-example)
04:04<Alberth>I have hg branch default, so svn up, hg ci. then hg up otherbranch; svn up does nothing!
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04:06<Ammler>dihedral: is that a easy way to work with mercurial (offline), but making svn diffs at the end?
04:06<Alberth>I see 'svn' as a program to modify 'my' source files, just like an editor.
04:07<@petern>you do?
04:08<Alberth>before we had a hg public repo, yes
04:08<Ammler>morning all, btw.
04:08<Alberth>good morning :)
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04:08<@petern>svn is a version control system, not an editor... so...
04:09<Alberth>svn is a program to update sources from an external source. It also happens to update some of its own internal files, which you should keep together
04:09<Alberth>(it becomes a VCS once you have commit access ;) )
04:09<@petern>reading the backlogs
04:09<@petern>no
04:09<@petern>mixing svn and hg is a fucking stupid thing to do
04:10<dihedral>petern, yes? how about talking to the thousands of people who do that?
04:10<dihedral>and you dont even get to notice they use hg
04:10<dihedral>there is also someone you know who does that
04:11<Alberth>not any more :)
04:11<dihedral>and a hg init in an svn co is not that uncommon for those people who want to use hg but get files from a svn repo
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04:11<dihedral>it's even documented!
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04:12<dihedral>and not as a 'stupid idea'
04:12<Alberth>petern: why is it stupid? I never use svn in my branches, so the files never get changed.
04:13<Alberth>I do not try to use svn for diffs. I use the hg VCS for that.
04:14<dihedral>Alberth, he is not talking about solely using hg being stupid!!
04:15<@petern>you should just clone the hg repo instead
04:16<Alberth>I did, and that's what I use now. It is much better.
04:17<Alberth>The only current problem is /3rdparty/squirrel. hg is bad at merging repo's from different sources.
04:18<dihedral>petern, there are a few reasons why someone would do hg init in an svn working copy!
04:18<dihedral>and i may not be the only one doing so
04:18<Alberth>I think basically anybody that wants a VCS on the sources without commit access.
04:23<Ammler>dihedral: maybe others need that, because they do not have a hg source to clone from.
04:23<dihedral>well that is one of the reasons yes
04:24<dihedral>for at least one of those with commit rights it's because commit is only done to svn
04:24<dihedral>also as one of the reasons
04:25<Ammler>but it seems not easy for just having a svn diff.
04:26<dihedral>why is that?
04:27<@petern>you should use svn export if there is no hg repo to clone
04:27<Alberth>but svn export copies everything every time
04:28<Alberth>maybe the confusion comes from the different view of the problem depending on whether or not you have commit access.
04:29<Alberth>in the latter case, I can see the advantage of not copying .svn files into the local VCS
04:29<Alberth>(ie if you do have commit access)
04:30<Ammler>Alberth: how to do make svn diffs for windows guys?
04:30<Ammler>how do you*
04:30<@petern>who cares?
04:30<@petern>you just make hg diffs
04:30<Ammler>Well, it is something like the official openttd format, isn't?
04:31<@petern>just because *just* tortoisesvn cannot handle non-tortoisesvn style diffs, doesn't mean it is a not a proper diff
04:31<Alberth>Ammler: if you just do a 'svn co' and work in there without further VCS for your changes, there is no problem.
04:31<@Rubidium>by royal decree: whatever `patch` likes is part of the official openttd format ;)
04:32<Alberth>just create them in your editor! :D
04:32<@petern>subversion doesn't even apply diffs
04:32<@petern>so it's something that tortoisesvn has got fucked up
04:32<dihedral><petern> you should use svn export if there is no hg repo to clone <- then you dont get why people do it!
04:32<@Rubidium>because something is documented doesn't make it right, does it?
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04:34<dihedral>Rubidium, have a chat with TB perhaps he can explain it a wee bit better
04:34<dihedral>i seem to fail at this point
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04:35<@Rubidium>anyhow, if you want .svn ignored, change your global hg ignores
04:36<dihedral>i just thought i might want to add it as others might use this approach too
04:37<Sacro>global hg ignores? :o
04:37<Alberth>dihedral: it is much worse trying to convince hg that the .hgignore file is bad, and should be ignored imho.
04:38<Sacro>why should hgignore be ignored?
04:38<Sacro>i commit it, it's useful to have around
04:38<Sacro>then when i checkout, build, alter, commit
04:39<Sacro>I don't have it commiting the build cruft
04:39<Alberth>locally, yes. However, if you get it from a 'svn co', and it is broken
04:39<dihedral>then it needs fixing!
04:40<Alberth>imho it is fine the way it is currently
04:41<Sacro>hmm
04:41<Sacro>it should be fixed!
04:41<Sacro>like dihedral!
04:41<@petern>hmm, 44291 seconds to synchronise someone's mailbox :o
04:41<Sacro>to Uni!
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04:41<@petern>by...
04:42<db48x>svn is such a pain
04:43<murr4y>that's what linus torvalds said
04:43<murr4y>and then he went and made his OWN vcs
04:43<murr4y>are you ready to do that? huh?
04:44<db48x>he didn't have the option of using hg
04:44<db48x>or git, for that matter
04:44<db48x>(although I suppose that's a tautology)
04:44<murr4y>..that would be because git's the vcs he made
04:45<dihedral>you should listen to his google talk
04:47<db48x>like I said, it's a tautology
04:47<db48x>it wasn't available because it wasn't available
04:48<dihedral>wow - your wisdom today is just astounding!
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04:48<db48x>I astound even myself
04:49<Ammler>db48x: the question now is, would "he" use Mercurial if that would have been available at that time? ;-)
04:49<db48x>yes, that is a good question
04:49<db48x>I can only prognosticate, but probably
04:50<db48x>hg doesn't have a few minor things that git does, but that's often a benefit
04:51<db48x>for example, it doesn't have a rebase command
04:51<db48x>but the rebase command was a huge mistake
04:51<db48x>it allows the user to erase history
04:52<Ammler>well, it is like export, nothing special then :-)
04:52<@petern>gah, stupid aircon
04:52<@petern>18 deg C harddrives :(
04:53<db48x>no, export doesn't remove the history from the repository, it merely produces a copy of the current revision with no links back to the repository
04:53<db48x>rebase lets you take a set of changes to the repository and rewrite them into a different set of changes
04:53<db48x>so I commit a new feature, then commit a fix for a typo 20 minutes later
04:54<db48x>I can use the rebase command to erase those two commits and commit a single changeset that makes it look like I never make mistakes
04:55<Ammler>and why is that bad?
04:55<db48x>it's probably not, as long as that's all you ever use it for
04:56<db48x>but what people actually use it for is to take 6 months of hard work and boil it down to a single perfect commit
04:56<db48x>they hide in a cave for 6 months, then produce a single commit
04:57<db48x>when they could have had people commenting and helping all along
04:57<@Rubidium>well, that's easy with hg too; just make a real clone of the repository, mess around in there, get the final diff and apply that to the real repository
04:57<db48x>even if it meant that people could see every misstep, every typo
04:57<db48x>Rubidium: sure, but then you lose some of hg's help in merging your changes
04:58<db48x>in the mozilla project, people use patch queues to do rebasing
04:58<@Rubidium>I really hope you don't need hg's help in merging a diff with the same revision you made it against
04:59<db48x>in a big project it'll never be the same revision you started with
04:59<db48x>by the time you've made the patch available for testing and whatever reviews are required, lots of other patches will have been checked in
04:59<Alberth>db48x: normally, you do a merge with the repo changes while you work
04:59<@Rubidium>how hard is merging the changes in the official repo into your cloned repo?
05:00<db48x>not hard at all
05:00<@Rubidium>and THEN making the diff and apply that to the offical repo
05:00<db48x>but it's actually easier with a patchqueue
05:00<db48x>even if it is half a dozen commands instead of two or three
05:01<Alberth>but also with a patch queue you want to base from a recent central repo revision
05:01<Alberth>otherwise a review makes no sense
05:01<@Rubidium>patch queues are just a glorified way of rebasing
05:01<db48x>yes
05:01<db48x>Rubidium: that's what I said
05:02<db48x>I'm just saying that the way people use it is unfortunate, so making the rebase command do all the work for you is also unfortunate
05:03<db48x>that reminds me
05:04<db48x>have you guys by any chance tested my own patch?
05:04<@Rubidium>that hg sucks from an admin point of view?
05:07<db48x>:)
05:15<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=106356 <--- he, people really play toyland :)
05:15<planetmaker>good morning also :)
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05:26<db48x>hmm
05:26<db48x>clients don't seem to know which other client issued a command
05:26<db48x>just that some commands came from the network, and the rest are sent to the network
05:27<@Rubidium>do they need to know?
05:27<db48x>apparently not
05:29<db48x>makes my idea harder to implement though
05:31<Alberth>Can a dev give me some comments on FS#2314?
05:31<@petern>May
05:32<planetmaker>[11:26] <db48x> clients don't seem to know which other client issued a command <-- true
05:32<@Rubidium>it got a vote
05:32<@petern>votes? how odd
05:32<@Rubidium>free bonus comment: you didn't vote for it yourself
05:32<Alberth>I never vote for issues :)
05:33<planetmaker>db48x: what do you need to know for what a particular client did?
05:33<db48x>planetmaker: I thought it would be nice for some user actions to be unobtrusively attributed
05:34<db48x>building some track causes a bit of text to float by with the cost
05:34<planetmaker>hehe. It is also a nice way to find out griefers :)
05:34<db48x>making it "Cost: $nnnn (db48x)" seemed like it would be an easy way to go
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05:35<db48x>same for incomes
05:35<planetmaker>would be nice, yes
05:35*Rubidium says something about can and worms
05:35<db48x>I guess it's not something I can do tonight, since I have to read more code
05:36<planetmaker>lunch now :)
05:36<db48x>Rubidium: what unintended consequences do you think this might cause?
05:37<@Rubidium>segfaults
05:37<db48x>how so?
05:38<db48x>I wouln't show the tag during a single-player game, obvously
05:39<@Rubidium>client A lags behind, client B sends command, client A receive command, client B quits, client B gets removed from client A's list of clients, client A executes client B's command, getting name results in NULL client info, causes NULL->name, ...
05:40<db48x>I think I can safely dodge that one :)
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05:40<@Rubidium>same way that a client can be removed while the text is floating; might also cause same segfault (or reading freed memory)
05:40<SmatZ>Rubidium: use {CLIENTNAME} instead, where these cases are checked...
05:40<SmatZ>I have a {CLIENTNAME} patch somewhere...
05:40<@petern>:o
05:40<SmatZ>but it doesn't have much of use...
05:41<@Rubidium>SmatZ: stop imitating peter 'I have a patch for that somewhere' n ;)
05:41<db48x>heh
05:41<SmatZ>:-)
05:42<dihedral>hello SmatZ
05:42<db48x>SmatZ: I'd be interested if you can find the link without too much trouble
05:42<SmatZ>hello dihedral :)
05:47<SmatZ>db48x: http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/clientname.diff
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05:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15555 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the mallocs + frees for temporary data from loading sprites.
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05:51<db48x>SmatZ: cool, thanks
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07:16<Felicitus>planetmaker: i have good news for you
07:17<@Rubidium>what? You finished his little project?
07:17<dihedral>hehe
07:18<dihedral>Rubidium, i guess he means he has good news for himself, just wants to share it with pm :-P
07:18<Felicitus>Rubidium: no :D which little project?
07:19<planetmaker>[13:17] <Rubidium> what? You finished his little project? <-- hehe. What's my little project? The bloody apple font detection? :S
07:20<Felicitus>planetmaker: it builds pretty neat 2 track mainlines now :)
07:20<dihedral>planetmaker, did you not get the memo?
07:20<Felicitus>and dynamically adds trains if there's enough cargo
07:20<planetmaker>uhm... no... which memo, dihedral ?
07:20<dihedral>about your 'job'
07:20<planetmaker>Felicitus: that's good news indeed :)
07:21<planetmaker>I'm afraid: no, dihedral :S
07:21<planetmaker>By what means should I have got that memo?
07:21*planetmaker is bothered
07:24<dihedral>planetmaker, i mean your little job for openttd
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07:25<planetmaker>Not that I'm aware of.
07:26<planetmaker>No e-mail or pm from any official openttd address or flyspray in recent times here.
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07:28<Ammler>lol planetmaker
07:29<planetmaker>irrespective of that, yes, I'm still playing with the font selection. It still doesn't work though :(
07:29<planetmaker>it still segfaults on me.
07:30<planetmaker>but I have the feeling that the current approach might work somehow
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07:51<Felicitus>okay, admiralAI is clearly beaten, cv-wise :)
07:51<Felicitus>and even half of the lines of FelicitusAI don't work :(
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07:54<planetmaker>From middle of the week I'll anyway have a bit more time again.
07:54<Felicitus>planetmaker: http://www.timohummel.com/temp/felicitus-ai-0.2.tgz
07:54<Felicitus>and everyone else who likes to have a peek into it
07:55<planetmaker>is that link in you tt-forums thread, Felicitus ?
07:55<planetmaker>I can only come around to having a look tonight
07:55<planetmaker>and I fear irc is to transient to remember this link :P
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07:56<dihedral>planetmaker, remember the date and search the logs :-P
07:57<planetmaker>Felicitus: did you update the libraries so that there's no version conflict anymore? (Just curious)
07:57<Felicitus>planetmaker: yes
07:58<Felicitus>planetmaker: i'm writing the announcement right now
07:58<planetmaker>nice. :)
07:58<Ammler>first serious train ai?
07:59<Felicitus>Ammler: you can have a look at it if you like to
07:59<Felicitus>Ammler: but don't expect too much, its the first version and many of the planned features aren't in there yet
07:59<Ammler>available with banans?
07:59<Felicitus>no not yet.
07:59<Felicitus>use http://www.timohummel.com/temp/felicitus-ai-0.2.tgz
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08:00<Felicitus>it's because the patched libraries aren't on bananas yet and I didnt see yexo to discuss if the changes are okay or if i should think of something else
08:00<Felicitus>yikes
08:00<Ammler>ok
08:00<Ammler>just gunzip that to the ai folder
08:01<Felicitus>the first FelicitusAI-train outperformed 7 years, 33 road vehicles and 3 trains of AdmiralAI
08:01<Felicitus>yep Ammler
08:02<Felicitus>Ammler: you might need to download again, there's a little bug i just found
08:02<Felicitus>package is updated on my webspace
08:06<Ammler>dbg: [ai] Registering two libraries with the same name and version
08:06<dihedral>Felicitus, good work ;-)
08:06<Ammler>do I need to replace the other one
08:06<Felicitus>Ammler: no just ignore it
08:06<Felicitus>dihedral: did you try it?
08:07<Felicitus>Ammler: it should work
08:07<Ammler>hmm, sure?
08:07<dihedral>Felicitus, looking at code
08:07<Felicitus>what did you find?
08:07<Ammler>then it asserts because of something else :-(
08:07<Ammler>src/network/../oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = NetworkClientInfo]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
08:07<Felicitus>Ammler: which release?
08:07<Ammler>ah
08:07<Ammler>I might try trunk :-)
08:07<Felicitus>yep :)
08:08<Felicitus>dihedral: i mean, how can someone measuring code? :)
08:08<planetmaker>[14:07] <Ammler> hmm, sure? <--- yes
08:08<planetmaker>worked here last night
08:08<planetmaker>Ammler: also update 3rdparty
08:09<Ammler>that happens automatically to trunk rev, afaik?
08:09<planetmaker>which reminds me... I need to update my update_trunk script
08:09<planetmaker>Ammler: using hg: no
08:09<Ammler>the issue is just, if you need an older rev, isn't?
08:09<@Rubidium>with svn it does
08:09<planetmaker>with svn: yes :)
08:09<planetmaker>I found out (again) hg doesn't yesterday
08:10<@Rubidium>De_ghosty: I can't figure out what you mean with your comment at FS#2662
08:10<Ammler>yeah, it should go to trunk...
08:10<Felicitus>ouch! i wrote 180k of code for my AI ?!?
08:10<Felicitus>thats crazy :)
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08:11<@petern>:D
08:11<Felicitus>this means that the MTBF is down by at least...let's say...500.000 keypresses!
08:11<Felicitus>of my keyboard, of course
08:12<Ammler>Rubidium: could you explain me the difference between trunk and the nightly source. (copyright related)
08:13<@Rubidium>should there be?
08:14<Ammler>well, that was the explaination, why squirrel isn't in trunk.
08:14<Ammler>but it is in the nightly source.
08:14<@Rubidium>by who?
08:14<Ammler>Truebraiin.
08:15<@Rubidium>what a lame explanation ;)
08:15<planetmaker>lol :P
08:16<planetmaker>Felicitus: I'd like again to advertise bananas :) You might even get more testers that way
08:16<@Rubidium>the idea was that the squirrel API was stable (and squirrel was stable) and thus that all versions of squirrel would work with all versions of OpenTTD
08:17<@Rubidium>and thus that there was no need to copy the directory on branches and such
08:17<Felicitus>planetmaker: i will use it as soon as i talked to yexo, because i don't want to upload a patched library without his comments
08:17<planetmaker>(and of course it supports my lazyness :P)
08:17<planetmaker>oh, ok, I understand that well. :)
08:18<planetmaker>I just wonder whether you even *could* superseed the existing libraries...
08:19<@Rubidium>he can't
08:19<Felicitus>hmm, thats odd
08:20<Felicitus>in 0.6.3, if you have 2 trains in the same station, loading stuff, the first one completes loading cargo and then leaves, and then the second one full loads
08:20<Felicitus>in trunk, the cargo seems to be distributed among those two trains
08:20<@Rubidium>Felicitus: turn on fifo loading
08:20<Felicitus>ok
08:20<@Rubidium>(improved)
08:21<Felicitus>but its odd anyways - i got train A in the station, it was fully loaded to 50%. then train B came in, and left before train A (A had 80%, B had 100%)
08:22<@Rubidium>Felicitus: looks odd, isn't odd when you know how it works
08:22<Felicitus>how does it work? :)
08:22<planetmaker>also, the driver of the first train was having extended lunch with his girlfriend in that town
08:22<Felicitus>:D
08:23<dihedral>planetmaker, that's what you call it, ey? 'extended lunch'
08:23<planetmaker>pssst, dihedral :)
08:23<@Rubidium>Felicitus: with improved loading off a train loads whatever he can and then waits a number of ticks (based on loading time of the wagons)
08:23<@Rubidium>so if cargo is brought to the station just after train A loaded, then train B loads all the new cargo
08:23<@Rubidium>if that happens most often, then B gets loaded before A
08:24<@Rubidium>with improved loading B can only load what A cannot take
08:24<@Rubidium>i.e. A and B can take 10 units, A is 50% full and 7 units arrive at the station. Then B loads 2 even when A isn't fully loaded yet
08:24<Felicitus>okay :)
08:24<@Rubidium>as it's certain that A will be fully loaded in the next load cycle
08:25<Felicitus>but fifo makes more sense
08:25<Felicitus>as default, i mean
08:25<@Rubidium>it's on by default
08:26<Felicitus>huh, that's odd
08:26<Felicitus>wasn't on at my box
08:26<Felicitus>maybe it confused with some old config?
08:26<@Rubidium>possible
08:27<Felicitus>maybe because i also use 0.6.3 to play online
08:28<@Rubidium>mixing 0.6 (and less) openttd and 0.7 (and more) on the same config file isn't a great idea
08:28<Felicitus>both seem to use ~/.openttd
08:30*dihedral wonders where the sound replacement project is at (i.e. what's still missing)
08:30<Ammler>dihedral: wiki tells it quite good.
08:31<Ammler>monolev engines is the most important missing part.
08:31<Ammler>oh, sound :P
08:31<Felicitus>i wonder if i really get that switch for 1 eur: http://i12.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/33/31/ddfe_12.JPG
08:32*dihedral has been RTFW'd
08:33<Ammler>there is no sound replacement which would work with current trunk
08:33<dihedral>well then....
08:33<dihedral>that's great news
08:33<Ammler>except touch sample.cat
08:34*dihedral lets his hdd head 'touch' sample.cat
08:34<@Rubidium>dihedral: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=766887#p766887
08:34<dihedral>Rubidium, i know the thread
08:35<dihedral>i was more wondering if anybody kept track of missing sounds - as only the achievements are mentioned across the 7 pages
08:35<Ammler>well, that sounds :P cool
08:35<@Rubidium>dihedral: wiki?
08:35<Ammler>that last zip doesn't need the patch from orudge
08:36<dihedral>Rubidium, already have been rtfw'd, see above ;-)
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08:36<Felicitus>dihedral: did you see http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Sound_Effects_Replacement ?
08:36<dihedral>.......
08:37<Felicitus>because it *is* pretty kept on track there
08:37<dihedral>yes
08:37<dihedral>thank you Felicitus !
08:37<Felicitus>?!?
08:37<Felicitus>*confused*
08:37<dihedral>:-P
08:37<Felicitus>time for a smoke :)
08:37<dihedral>why does not everybody in this channel tell me to read the wiki? :-P
08:37<dihedral>hehe
08:38<Ammler>why is that thread in general openttd, btw.?
08:38*Ammler never reading there
08:38*dihedral applies SirkoZ' smoke patch to Felicitus
08:38<dihedral>:-P
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08:42<@petern>i don't think people should actually care which bits of the forum you read
08:44<Ammler>petern: I hope so.
08:45<planetmaker>dihedral: very unhealthy to apply that patch to persons :P
08:47<Felicitus>i'm out for today
08:47<Felicitus>good night
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08:47<dihedral>how about the day length patch right now? :-P
08:48<@Rubidium>how about which one?
08:48<@Rubidium>and where's the non-broken one?
08:49<dihedral>hehe
08:49<@petern>which one what?
08:51*planetmaker also needs a day length patch and especially a nights length patch for RL
08:51<@petern>:/var/log # ls -1 | wc -l 4147
08:51<@petern>:o
08:55<dihedral>ouch
08:56<@Rubidium>petern: any interesting reads in those few logs?
08:57<@petern>absolutely none
08:59<dihedral>^^
08:59<dihedral>you have about the same number of logs as i emails :-P
09:08<SpComb>terom@shell ~ $ ls -1 /var/log/wwwlogs/ | wc -l
09:08<SpComb>160335
09:09<SpComb>although I did reconfigure logrotate a month ago
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09:17<George>petern: What do you think about applying CB 3D to vehicles to control possible refit list?
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09:25<@petern>i think that vehicles are not industries
09:26<@petern>while i see no reason that different feature types need to share the same numberspace, that's how it works
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09:49<Avdg>hi, just wondering the new feature
09:49<Avdg>Support vehicle vars 0x47 and 0xF2 in purchase list.
09:49<Avdg>what does it do?
09:50<Avdg>:/ seems nobody is active here :p
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09:51<Roest>right, because you didn't get an answer within 10 seconds nobody is active here
09:51<Avdg>true :p
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09:51<Avdg>maybe becouse i expected a 'hi' or something lol
09:52<Avdg>oh i got the answer ty anyway :)
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09:53<dihedral>Roest: i have a ques.... oh - nobody here, bye
09:54<davis->lol
09:54<Forked>no one are active? ohmygod! they shut down the internet
09:55<dihedral>the internets <- it's plural :-P
09:55<Roest>http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/22/0310236 and i didn't even notice it
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09:57<dihedral>Alberth, nobody is active, no chance in getting a reply
09:57<dihedral>^^
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10:02<Alberth>that's ok, I will wait for the answer to my previous one ;)
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10:07<+glx>and all newgrf variables are documented on ttdpatch wiki ;)
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>am i dreaming or did alain actually update a patch by himself?
10:29<Forked>KGAT?
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>the town distance patch
10:30<Forked>good for him :)
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11:21<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, would be about time
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12:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15556 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Change: don't temporary malloc+free when encoding sprites, just reuse the same piece of allocated memory for each encoding.
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13:02<@petern>deja vu :o
13:03<@Rubidium>petern: what are your thoughts on FS#2646?
13:06<@petern>yes
13:06<@petern>don't allow saving if grfs are missing
13:06<@petern>or:
13:07<@petern>add a system to allow to specify grfs by grfid and md5sum instead of filename
13:07<roest>:O
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13:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15557 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: the font width cache was not updated when changing fonts causing the font spacing to be off when changing fonts in-game (auto font detection).
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13:20<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/fs2646.diff <- that's the don't allow saving (and don't allow deleting custom)
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13:29<planetmaker>saving a game while missing grfs doesn't make sense imo :)
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13:29<planetmaker>and it seems like I'll have to update my working copy on the font fixing issue
13:34*petern hmms at Civ 3
13:34<@petern>"Mediterranean Small by Truelight.bix"
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13:41<planetmaker>:D
13:42<planetmaker>linky?
13:44<@petern>it's in game
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13:52<Yexo>hello
13:54<@petern>hi
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14:05<planetmaker>hi
14:05<planetmaker>petern: thx. then I'll have to look at it one day again :) It's a great game anyway :)
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14:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15558 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_object.hpp script/squirrel.hpp): -Cleanup: Remove some unnecessary friend declarations.
14:37<frosch123>unnecessary friends :s
14:38<roest>poor friends :(
14:38<Forked>I guess they didn't pay enough :\
14:38<Prof_Frink>Friend 6. Generally unnecessary.
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15:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15559 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp landscape.h lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Feature: Show required/already-delivered cargo needed for town-growth in town-view-window. (and only if it is really needed)
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15:08<planetmaker>now, that's a nice feature, frosch123 :)
15:09<frosch123>nice that you like it :)
15:12<KingJ>Very useful
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15:16<@Belugas>yeah... no need to wonder anymore, nor to look at the wiki ;)
15:16<@Belugas>but nice any way hehehehe
15:16<planetmaker>Belugas: exactly. It will save at least a few questions... :)
15:17<planetmaker>so... it's better also for your well-being :P
15:17<welshdragon>ooh
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15:17<welshdragon>will that revision be available tonight?
15:17<Yexo>no, in +- 23 hours
15:18<welshdragon>:(
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15:19<frosch123>welshdragon: you have about 22 hours left to translate the new strings to welsh :p
15:19<welshdragon>frosch123: i'm quite behind with the strings anyway
15:20*welshdragon shall work on some tonight
15:20<planetmaker>frosch123: oh :)
15:20<@Belugas>not some... ALL!
15:20<@Belugas>"most of them" can be acceptable
15:20<welshdragon>hmm
15:21<frosch123>planetmaker: go! go! go!
15:22<planetmaker>Just submitting :P
15:22<planetmaker>done :)
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15:28<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: Don't forget to slip an out of office reply into the translations
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15:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15560 /trunk/src/table/namegen.h: -Fix: typos in Spanish town names (Erregerre)
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15:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15561 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2646]: segfault when saving a preset with unknown NewGRFs
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15:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15562 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_gui.cpp ai_scanner.cpp): -Change: Use GetName() to determine the unique AI name instead of GetInstanceName() to make branching of AIs easier.
15:58<planetmaker>frosch123: schall I add that to flyspray: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41983 ?
15:58<frosch123>hehe, I am definitely not going to add it :p
15:58<planetmaker>:P
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16:06<planetmaker>fs2674 for you then, frosch123 :) - or rather free for the taking ;)
16:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15563 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.cpp ai_industry.hpp ai_industry.hpp.sq): -Change [API CHANGE]: Remove AIIndustry::GetMaxIndustryID().
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16:22<welshdragon>i have a blank string
16:22*welshdragon is finishing the welsh translations
16:22<welshdragon>STR_000E
16:23<@Belugas>that is indeed a blank string
16:24<@petern>STR_000E :THIS STRING INTENTIONALLY BLANK
16:25<planetmaker>does it serve a purpose?
16:25<Yexo>it's used as name for some cargos
16:26<planetmaker>ah, makes sense
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16:34<welshdragon>w00t, welsh translation completed
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>why does amarok 2 tell me "Failed: No tracks were imported" when i try to import my amarok 1.4 collection?
16:34<@Rubidium>cause it wants you not to use it?
16:38<el_en>cause your locale is set to english and not german?
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16:58<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it's the warezs protection ;)
17:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15564 /trunk/src/cheat_gui.cpp: -Fix: Refresh all industry windows if the modify production cheat is enabled/disabled.
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17:09<dihedral>@seen Bjarni
17:09<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, and 6 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Merkin English and English English. <-- I thought it was corrupted English and real English :/
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17:40<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=767058#p767058 <- took me a few seconds to find the lightning ;-)
17:40<dihedral>(see attached file's comment)
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17:47<fonsinchen>Is there a StringID that does something like "<number>/<number>", for example "34/123"?
17:47<fonsinchen>I want to print a relation between actually transported goods to capacities of the links in the smallmap.
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>search for one? make one?
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17:49<+glx>STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_AMOUNT_INT is the closer, but indeed you can add one if needed
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17:52<fonsinchen>Thanks
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18:49<dihedral>Roest:
18:49<dihedral>[00:28] * nik0518 (nik0518@82.138.241.220) has joined #oftc
18:49<dihedral>[00:28] <nik0518> hello?
18:49<dihedral>[00:28] * nik0518 has quit ()
18:49<dihedral>^^
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21:49<arex\>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Split-before-servicing.png <- How should orders be when using that?
21:50<Yexo>don't give special orders, just give orders as if there was no depot at all
21:51<arex\>oh, of course
21:51<arex\>doh
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22:45<Felicitus>hiwdy
22:45<Felicitus>urx
22:45<Felicitus>howdy
22:45<Felicitus>bananas gives me "Unexpected error while uploading." when i try to upload my ai :(
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 24 00:00:02 2009