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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-24

---Logopened Tue Feb 24 00:00:02 2009
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02:21<Forked>dumdidum.. mornin
02:26<MrFrans>Morning
02:27<MrFrans>for whomever it may concern the wiki doesn't load.
02:28*Forked can confirm that
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02:29<Yexo>good morning
02:29<db48x>hello all
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02:46-!-Felicitus [~Felicitus@static.106.93.46.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openttd
02:46<Felicitus>howdy :)
02:46<Felicitus>Yexo, i just read your pm
02:46<Yexo>hello Felicitus
02:46<Yexo>good :)
02:46-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust620.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
02:47<Felicitus>well, what I modified in the rail pathfinder so far is multiplier support and building on tiles which you won - because right now, the pathfinder ignores all tiles which are already built
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02:47<Felicitus>but a nice thing would be if the pathfinder would support dual- and quad rails, but i'm not sure how that would work
02:47<Yexo>yes, I have support for that in admiralai too, but how do you determine which tiles you use and which you don't?
02:48<Yexo>ie you don't want a trainline going south and a trainline going north on the same track, right?
02:48<Felicitus>well, i don't let the pathfinder cross tiles
02:48<Felicitus>erm cross roads
02:48<Felicitus>wait a sec
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02:49<Felicitus>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=106057
02:50<Felicitus>if you take the terminus station for example, and if the path finder plans a route for the right track which immediately makes a turn left (south->north line), it was unable to build the left line even tough it could build 2 tracks on that tile
02:51<Yexo>ah, now I get what you mean :)
02:51<Yexo>so forget what I said before, as that has nothing to do with this
02:51<Felicitus>there were many times when the builder blocked itself :)
02:52<Yexo>in admiralai I prevent that by disallowing some tiles
02:52<Yexo>let me upload a picture
02:53<Felicitus>ok :)
02:53<Felicitus>take your time, i have to win a game on kurt's:)
02:54<Felicitus>(i lost the last game because that guy build a statue maybe 1 min earlier than i could :(
02:55<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/ignored.png <- here you are
02:55<Yexo>this is far from a perfect solution though, it blocks itself sometimes, but less often then without blocking those tiles
02:56<Felicitus>well the check for that is pretty simple
02:56<Yexo>for the route the other way a block of four tiles before the entrance is forbidden of course
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02:57<Felicitus>it just checks which line it would build (e.g. NW_SW) and then checks if the existing tile is sane (e.g. NE_SE). if that's true, it will be added to the tiles
02:59<Yexo>do you have a diff for that against the current pathfinder?
03:00<Felicitus>hmm no not yet, but i can prepare one
03:00-!-Lisby [~Lisby@nat-adm.tnb.aau.dk] has joined #openttd
03:00<Felicitus>but warning: the function which retrieves the track it would build is pretty ugly
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03:00<Felicitus>a bunch of if checks, i'm not sure how to solve that better
03:00<Yexo>I can always rewrite it :)
03:01<Yexo>but I don't think there is a clean way to write that function
03:01<Felicitus>yes, i might be good in OO architecture, but I'm a big looser in binary operations
03:01<Yexo>for me the design (so the OO architecture) is the hard part most of the time
03:02<Felicitus>:)
03:02<Felicitus>the funny thing is, that when i was younger and had no clue about OO, i was writing the craziest stuff with bit shifting, and/or etc
03:04<Felicitus>well actually we would only need something like AIRail::BuildRail, but which doesnt build the actual track, but returns which track it would build (e.g. RAILTRACK_NW_SW)
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03:05<Yexo>it's not that hard to implement that function in squirrel
03:05<Felicitus>yes, but implementing alot of if checks doesn't feel like the right solution:)
03:06<Yexo>so moving those if statements to c++ code and exposing an extra api function is the right solution?
03:07<Felicitus>i don't know, but i would be interested how it is solved in c++
03:07<Felicitus>i mean, some funky and/or statements maybe? ;)
03:07<Yexo>it probably would be solved the same way you've done now in squirrel :)
03:07<Felicitus>for real?
03:07<Felicitus>:)
03:08<Felicitus>well it actually calculates the differences and then has like 6 nested if checks
03:08-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
03:08<Felicitus>hmm Yexo, i bundled the modified library in the 0.2-release, if you want you can have a look yourself. can't make a diff right now, because i'm on vista
03:08<Felicitus>and dont have the sources here
03:09<Yexo>ok, no problem
03:09<Felicitus>i spent so much time with the AI in the last few days (over 180k of code!), that its now time to do something productive...as soon as i've won the game on kurt's! :)
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03:18<Felicitus>oh by the way, i tried to upload the ai to bananas, but it said something like "unhandled error occured"
03:18<Yexo>I can't help you with that, sorry
03:19<Yexo>you'll need to ask Rubidium
03:19<Felicitus>okay, will do that when he's around
03:19<Yexo>just highlight him and he'll read it when he's back, that's easier
03:19<Felicitus>Rubidium: I recieve an "unhandled error occured" when uploading my AI, can you have a look at that?
03:20<Yexo>but make sure to include a link to the file you're trying to upload
03:20<Felicitus>hmm that's the harder part
03:20<Felicitus>seems that there's no way around rebooting :)
03:21<Felicitus>any wishes for diff options?
03:21<Yexo>nope
03:21<Yexo>I'll probably merge it by hand anyway
03:21<Felicitus>okay
03:21<Felicitus>well heh
03:22<Felicitus>i extended the class earlier to have it clean for bananas
03:22<Felicitus>completely forgot that
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03:22<Felicitus>should i just send you the file with the overridden class? because as of now, there are no changes in your class
03:23<Yexo>that's fine too
03:23<Felicitus>okay, will do that
03:23<Felicitus>see you in a few minutes
03:23<Yexo>whatever makes it easy to see your changes is ok :)
03:23<Felicitus>i make a few comments where i added things
03:23<Felicitus>and notice to myself: run irssi in screen next time
03:23-!-Felicitus [~Felicitus@static.106.93.46.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
03:24<De_ghosty>180k lines?
03:24<Yexo>180k bytes
03:24<Forked>180kilobytes of code?
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03:25<Yexo>which is not rare for an AI
03:25<De_ghosty>kinda short
03:25<Yexo>nocab is 280kb, admiralai 340kb
03:25<De_ghosty>who count by kb?
03:25<Yexo>wrightai only 40kb
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03:36<Felicitus>ok back
03:36<Felicitus>Rubidium: http://www.timohummel.com/temp/FelicitusAI.1.tar is the file, it gives me " * Unexpected error while uploading."
03:36<Felicitus>Yexo: it's the file library/rail/pathfinder.nut in the tar archive
03:36<Felicitus>brb reboot
03:37<Yexo>ok, thanks
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03:38<Felicitus>back
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03:40-!-flowOver [~J@S01060016e65abad7.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
03:41<Felicitus>oh nice, eclipse PDT 2.1 supports php 5.3 namespaces
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03:48<flowOver>pdt is nice. i'm giving aptanaphp a shot right now. will give pdt 2 a go after i've had a run on this
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03:48<Felicitus>yes, i was almost near to use zend studio for 30 days because there was virtually no editor which supports namespaces, but the milestone supports it
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03:53<planetmaker>[09:24] <De_ghosty> 180k lines? <--- kind A LOT more than you invest in bug reports
03:53<planetmaker>good morning all :)
03:54<flowOver>i've grown accustomed to using registrys instead of namespaces. i'll wait till they get all the kinks worked out of them first
03:54<Yexo>morning planetmaker
03:54<flowOver>php is all about workarounds
03:55<Felicitus>morning planetmaker
03:55<Felicitus>what does De_ghosty mean?
03:55<dihedral>oi
03:55<dihedral>\o
03:56<Felicitus>morning dihedral
03:56<dihedral>:-)
03:56<planetmaker>Felicitus: I just read back a bit... can I now - with the new libraries use your AI without installing your custom ones?
03:57<dihedral>i would love to too
03:57<Felicitus>planetmaker: if you pick the tar i just posted, yes
03:57<planetmaker>nice :)
03:57<dihedral>but i have work to do :-P
03:57<dihedral>hello planetmaker
03:57<Felicitus>http://www.timohummel.com/temp/FelicitusAI.1.tar
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03:57<Felicitus>that one works witout a custom library, and will hopefully be uploaded to bananas later
03:57<planetmaker>:)
03:58<Felicitus>ah screw it
03:58<planetmaker>hm?
03:58<Felicitus>not that i worked a few days in linux i miss so many things
03:58<Felicitus>on vista...like virtual desktops, and window snapping
03:58<planetmaker>hehe
03:59<Felicitus>there are many apps which can make a virtual desktop, but WHY dont they extend the window's menu so i can move windows to another workspace or make it sticky
03:59<Felicitus>ok i guess i will reboot again :)
03:59<flowOver>i believe the nvidia drivers offer these kind of tools for the desktop
03:59<planetmaker>at least the desktops afair. But long time ago :P
04:02<Felicitus>back
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04:02<Felicitus>flowOver: i was sick of trying, and finally rebooted into linux
04:15<dihedral>Felicitus: unable to execute task DelayedTask:IndustryConnectionTask
04:15<dihedral>0:100
04:16<dihedral>i am on a 64x64 map
04:16<Forked>dihedral: hmm, what did I do that would cause neko to start up again? :\
04:16<Felicitus>dihedral: that's okay, it always says that when a task is in the list, but not allowed to run yet
04:16<Forked>I haven't really paid any attention to the person
04:17<Felicitus>dihedral: does the AI still run? or did it give another error?
04:17<dihedral>Forked, you created a patch bundle for someone else who asked nicely :-D
04:17<dihedral>had an issue with save()
04:18<dihedral>i'll fire it up again
04:18<Forked>I included more than was asked for I think.. also it's something I wanted for myself
04:18<Forked>I just happend to find the three patches here and there for the same rev.. anyone could have done that :\
04:19<Yexo>anyone could have done that :\ <- expect for that neko guy, because "his computer is not good enough"
04:20<Forked>didn't he have some overclocked 2,8GHz or something?
04:20<Yexo>something like that
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>he didn't even understand the hint of dihedral that the overclocking was probably the root of his problems...
04:21*db48x yawns
04:21<dihedral>he did not even get the hint that youtube gets his system overheated
04:21<Felicitus>hehe
04:21<dihedral>i wonder how he ever gets to play a single game
04:21<db48x>why do aircraft default to 1/4 speed?
04:22<dihedral>we should tell him to play openttd in fast forward mode and wait for the lovely bug reports
04:22<dihedral>db48x, you want them faster?
04:22<Eddi|zuHause>db48x: hysterical raisins
04:23<db48x>is it just to balance the low costs compared to trains?
04:23<planetmaker>exaclty
04:23<Yexo>db48x: no, it's because it was that way in TTD
04:23<Yexo>or maybe it's also to balance the costs
04:23<planetmaker>maybe both is valid, Yexo ?
04:23<db48x>yes, but did they do that in TTD to balance the costs :)
04:23<Yexo>anyway, you can change the their speed somewhere in the advanced settings window
04:23<db48x>yea
04:23<Yexo>planetmaker: true :)
04:24<dihedral>db48x, did TTD allow you to build bridges over diagonal roads?
04:24<dihedral>eh... tracks
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04:24<db48x>no clue
04:24<Yexo>it didn't
04:24<dihedral>or did ttd allow you to load other grf's?
04:24<db48x>doesn't surprise me
04:24<Yexo>nope
04:24<db48x>but this is slightly different
04:24<dihedral>then just see this as another feature that openttd has and ttd did not
04:25<db48x>those are new features added since then. the speed reduction seems to have been present in TTD and then OpenTTD allowed you to remove it
04:25<dihedral>(balancing the costs)
04:25<Yexo>s/allowed/allows/
04:25<dihedral>pbs also comes to mind
04:25<dihedral>and pre signals
04:25<dihedral>oh - and the huge ass airports
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04:25<dihedral>am i missing something?
04:26<db48x>yes, my point
04:26<dihedral>openttd != ttd, though they do strive to let you play with how ttd used to be
04:26<Yexo>dihedral: probably quite a lot, though I can't point at the correct wiki page right now :p
04:26<dihedral>hihi
04:26<db48x>all those take work to develop, so they dropped them in favor of releasing when they did. deciding to slow planes down is the opposite
04:26<flowOver>the one i've loved since the start is build on slopes and all that ease of building changes
04:27<Eddi|zuHause>does anybody use the "disable electric rails" switch?
04:27<dihedral>well, Yexo, you are not the one looking for the answer, so pointing to wiki.openttd.org does the job :-D
04:27<dihedral>db48x, what do you mean?
04:27<dihedral>sorry - i dont quite follow
04:28<db48x>some features are nice to have but don't get included in the 1.0 release because you can't implement everything
04:29<dihedral>that aint the sole reason
04:29<db48x>sure, but it often just comes down to that
04:29<dihedral>and 1.0 is not even being talked about
04:29<dihedral>no
04:29<db48x>TTD == 1.0
04:29<db48x>1.0 == any given release
04:29<dihedral>then you should say ttd or any release but 1.0 is a precise version number
04:30<db48x>fair enough
04:30<dihedral>and without a name it lets me assume you are talking about openttd
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>95% of the features that OpenTTD introduced were never even considered back when TTD was released
04:30<dihedral>CS had a 'vision' (as marjacq would say)
04:30<db48x>anyway, TTD divided all aircraft speeds by 4, which means that they took the time to consider whether it would be a good idea
04:31<dihedral>they?
04:31<dihedral>CS did
04:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and CS also stated that TTDP/OpenTTD divert very far from his "vision"
04:31<dihedral>CS coded what he had in mind
04:31<db48x>yes, they
04:31<db48x>right
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04:31<db48x>so what I want to know is why he decided airplanes should move 4 times slower than other craft
04:31<dihedral>call marjacq
04:32<db48x>that eliminates the main selling point of aircraft
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>db48x: and we're supposed to be mindreaders?
04:32<DASPRiD>dihedral, btw, what's the status on that secret project which was abandonded?
04:32<dihedral>i doubt you will get an answer other than 'Chris Sawyer had a vision which he programmed into Trasport Tycoon'
04:32<db48x>Eddi|zuHause: obviously
04:32<Yexo>DASPRiD: can you be any more vague? :p
04:32<dihedral>DASPRiD, bananas.openttd.org
04:32<DASPRiD>Yexo, just a bit :>
04:33<db48x>dihedral: well, I already did, which is for balance between the earning potential of aircraft and trains
04:33<dihedral>Yexo, vague for you, not for me :-P
04:33<DASPRiD>dihedral, bah, downloads just linked externally? :/
04:33<dihedral>??
04:33<DASPRiD>so no dl system behind it?
04:33<dihedral>have you looked at the game recently?
04:34<DASPRiD>no :x
04:34<dihedral>sheesh - where have you been?
04:34<DASPRiD>only on openttdcoop
04:34<dihedral>content download (grep the svn loogs for that)
04:34<dihedral>db48x, i dont get what you are after
04:34<dihedral>knowing what CS intentions were?
04:34-!-lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
04:35<dihedral>or why OpenTTD is different
04:35<DASPRiD>dihedral, sad that we couldnt finish it
04:35<Felicitus>who's CS?
04:35<dihedral>DASPRiD, no not really
04:35<db48x>yes, but I'll settle for knowing what other people suspect his intentions were
04:35<DASPRiD>dihedral, why?
04:35<dihedral>Chris Sawyer
04:35<Felicitus>ah
04:35<dihedral>db48x, no decent person is going to do that
04:35<dihedral>they either know or they dont
04:35<Felicitus>sorry didnt follow the conversation, what did cs do?
04:35<Yexo>Felicitus: it's was the person who made TTD
04:36<dihedral>if you want an intervew with CS, call his agency (they are in london) but i doubt you'll get one
04:36<db48x>Felicitus: he wrote TTD, basically
04:36*dihedral already tried
04:36<Eddi|zuHause>db48x: how should we decide if it was for "gamebalance" reasons, or because it caused integer overflows?
04:36<Felicitus>yes, uhm, its like "why did felicitus decide to write an AI" :)
04:36<flowOver>he also made the decision that planes should move 1/4 speed of everything else. his intentions are in question
04:36<dihedral>or if it was Micropose that said they are to fast and we will not sell it like that
04:37<dihedral>Felicitus, talking of which, it's not doing anything in a 64x64 map
04:37<Yexo>Felicitus: only without you being here, and we guessing why you wrote one :p
04:37<db48x>Eddi|zuHause: I was aware that it was a question for which no answer may be readily available before I asked the question
04:37*DASPRiD pokes dihedral with a query
04:37<Felicitus>Yexo: i do not want to manually connect everything on a 2048x2048 map. thats the reason :P
04:38<Felicitus>dihedral: which openttd version?
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>db48x: then why do you insist on getting an answer, even after you got three?
04:38<flowOver>maybe it's something about accounting for altitude & circumferences.... es
04:38<db48x>Eddi|zuHause: I didn't. dihedral and I got onto a side track about the existential nature of features in general
04:39<dihedral>Felicitus, 15557
04:39<Felicitus>hmm that should work
04:39<Felicitus>do you get any other messages in the log?
04:40<fonsinchen>http://wiki.openttd.org/ is infinitely slow
04:40<dihedral>could not find a sane placement spot for x
04:40<Yexo>Felicitus: it there a reason you claim people need at least r15553? r15553 was a translation update, so it's very unlikely your AI depends on that revision
04:40<db48x>very nearly infinite, at any rate
04:40<Felicitus>Yexo: thats a number i know that it works with it :) when did you put the patch into svn?
04:40<dihedral>i give up with the ai for now
04:41<Yexo>Felicitus: which patch?
04:41<Felicitus>Yexo: waypoint building and power API call
04:41<fonsinchen>So, is there actually documentation on how to implement a configuration option in the wiki or can I safely stop trying to load it?
04:41<Yexo>r15530 (after that both worked)
04:42<Felicitus>okay, then i claim r55530 in the future :)
04:42<Yexo>fonsinchen: the wiki doesn't work currently
04:42<Yexo>what are you after?
04:42<Felicitus>Yexo: me?
04:42<Yexo>no, fonsinchen
04:42<fonsinchen>I want a configuration option for the time frame of my moving average for capacities of links
04:43<fonsinchen>and I was hoping to find documentation in the wiki
04:43<fonsinchen>nevermind, I'll search somewhere else.
04:43<Yexo>if there is any, it's outdated by now
04:43<Yexo>just adding a new settings is pretty easy
04:43<Yexo>3 places you need to change: settings_base.h, settings.cpp and settings_gui.cpp
04:44<fonsinchen>I have done that before and it was like two hours searching and 2 minutes implementing
04:44<dihedral>grep
04:44<fonsinchen>I'll document it when I've rediscovered it.
04:44<fonsinchen>thanks for the hint
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04:45<Ammler>morning all, Yexo, do you still have a up2date cygwin environment?
04:45<Yexo>morning Ammler
04:45<Yexo>unfortunatly not, I broke it some time ago, and haven't been able to fix it yet
04:45<fonsinchen>there is no settings_base.h
04:45<Yexo>before that I was able to compile noai succesfully with squirrel though
04:45<Ammler>since noai?
04:46<Yexo>fonsinchen: it's settings_type.h, sorry
04:46<Ammler>oh
04:46<Yexo>Ammler: before the trunk merge, but with squirrel
04:46<@petern>aircraft speed is clearly a balance issue
04:46<Ammler>dunno, I had some tries with help of this channels, but failed ;-)
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04:47<Felicitus>dihedral: you can send the map to me, so i can have a look why it fails
04:47<Yexo>Ammler: I'll try reinstalling cygwin now
04:47<dihedral>Felicitus, it failed on every 64x64 map i tried
04:48<@Rubidium>Yexo/Felicitus: TrueBrain wrote the website part of bananas, so uploading that doesn't work should be fixed by him as you and me have about equal knowledge of that part
04:48<dihedral>it had plans on what to do, but nothing ever happened
04:48<Yexo>Rubidium: ok :)
04:49<Yexo>in any case you have more access to the server than I have
04:49<dihedral>^^
04:49<Felicitus>dihedral: oh yes, of course, because the AI doesnt do terraforming right now, it fails because it cant place the huge stations :)
04:49<dihedral>LOL
04:49<dihedral>ok
04:50<dihedral>HAHA
04:50<dihedral>cute :-)
04:50<Felicitus>yes, terraforming is not implemented yet
04:50<@Rubidium>Yexo: true, though you won't be happy to admin or quickfix WT2 ;)
04:50<Felicitus>but one thing is odd - it should use a 4 tile station, but it doesnt
04:50<dihedral>it was a mountanious map :-P
04:50<Yexo>Rubidium: I wasn't saying I want more acces, I'm happy with the way it's now :)
04:51<Yexo>did you just fix the wiki / bugs.openttd.org?
04:51<dihedral>Rubidium, i thought TB was working on WT3
04:51<Felicitus>dihedral: yes, and i am stupid. because currently it doesn't upgrade stations, the smallest station footprint is 13x2 squares
04:52<Felicitus>so it will never work this time on 64x64 maps
04:52<@Rubidium>was maybe, but nothing more than a few lines have ever come out
04:55<dihedral>and he was so strong about it with 'just a few days'
04:55<dihedral>pft
04:55<dihedral>but he wants any new wt in python
04:55<dihedral>which was why i never even got started on a php one
04:55<@Rubidium>'just a few days' is an euphemism for 'most likely not this year'
04:56<dihedral>usually not with TB ;-)
04:56<dihedral>and he usually subsitutes 'a few' with an integer
04:56<dihedral>< 5
04:56<@Rubidium>dihedral: we got a php one now and it kinda suck w.r.t. memory wastage
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04:56<dihedral>i know - i have the code
04:56<dihedral>:-P
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04:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, celestar also said that cargodest would take "just a few days" :p
04:58<dihedral>hehe
04:58<dihedral>and then he disappeared after a few days and was never seen again
04:58<dihedral>:-P
04:59<@Rubidium>he didn't disappear after a few days
04:59<dihedral>he actually did do a good job with what is there now
05:00<dihedral>just i assume syncing it will take a huge amount of time and be pretty tedious
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05:02<@Rubidium>he started only 6 months ago and did quite regular commits for the following 4 months
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>6 months? i thought it was less than that
05:04<@Rubidium>that's the first non-trunk commit I could find in the cargodest hg
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, probably my sense of time is thoroughly screwed
05:08<dihedral>"Hey, I wrote it (the "original" rewrite at least)" <- the original rewrite lol
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05:32<dihedral>LUADuck, http://forums.jokerice.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1523 <- looks like that was shot in the own foot :-P
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05:38<Felicitus>damn, the scrollback buffer is lost :(
05:38<Felicitus>Rubidium: who was the guy whom i should ask about the bananas problem?
05:38<@Rubidium>TrueBrain
05:39<Xaroth>banananananana :o
05:39<Felicitus>ok :)
05:40<@Rubidium>I think he's on vacation this week though
05:45<Felicitus>well, i'm not in a hurry
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05:50<dihedral>he's snowboarding, yes
05:56<Yexo>Ammler: I just reinstalled cygwin, but I can only confirm cygwin no longer compiles openttd
05:56<Yexo>I wonder how I had it working before though
05:57<Felicitus>damn, i need that thing up on bananas, call him in the holidays and get him back here! (and if nobody watches, i put on a disguise and go snowboarding as him instead) :)
06:00<dihedral>Felicitus, what's the issue?
06:00<dihedral>upload not working?
06:00<Yexo>Felicitus: what program do you use to make the tar?
06:00<Felicitus>Yexo: tar
06:00<Felicitus>well, earlier it complained that my tar contains a license txt file, so i guess the mechanis on the server works
06:00<Felicitus>dihedral: it works, but it complains about an unexcepted error
06:01<Felicitus>Yexo: tar cfv FelicitusAI.1.tar FelicitusAI.1/
06:01<Yexo>Felicitus: that should be ok
06:01<Felicitus>yep
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06:13<Ammler>Yexo: I am not able to download gcc for mingw, either.
06:14<Yexo>Ammler: I'm using msvc currently
06:14<Yexo>never used mingw
06:17<Ammler>Yexo: nvm, thank you anyway.
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06:22<dihedral>http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070503 <- :-D
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06:22<Forked>how can you be a tester and not being able to compile.. :\
06:22<dihedral>Forked, :-D
06:23<dihedral>i wondered the same thing
06:23<DASPRiD>shouldn't everyone be able to type ./configure && make && make install ?
06:23<Forked>you don't even have to do the last one
06:23<Forked>since it ends up in bin/
06:23<DASPRiD>ah right
06:23*Forked prints that UF strip
06:24<Forked>(I work at an ISP)
06:24<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=767199#p767199 <- now that is just awesome
06:24<DASPRiD>sure, on ubuntu / debian, the tester first has do type sudo apt-get install build-deps ;)
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06:24<dihedral>the one kiddo would probably also run sudo svn up.... wait.....
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06:28<Forked>first thing I do in ubuntu is sudo su - && passwd
06:28<@petern>sudo -s
06:28<Forked>(well the passwd happens after, but.. to get it on one line and then ruin it by explaining)
06:29<Xaroth>sudo -i
06:29<Xaroth>gives a nice root console
06:29<Ammler>default install without pw?
06:29<DASPRiD>Forked, enabling root account sucks hard :P
06:29<Forked>ye well, I suck :)
06:29<DASPRiD>ok then thats fine :P
06:30<Xaroth>as long as you have sudo configured properly you don't ever need to change the root password
06:30<@petern>first thing i do in debian is install sudo ;)
06:30<Xaroth>so you can just make it some impossible to remember rediculously long password
06:30<Xaroth>and stick to sudo :)
06:31<@petern>and obviously ssh is restricted to keys and no root login
06:31<@petern>although keys *and* password would be better
06:31<@petern>must investigate if that's possible
06:31<Xaroth>keys with passwords :)
06:32<@petern>yes but the password is still on the wrong side
06:32<Xaroth>it's either keys or plain passwords
06:32<Xaroth>er, yes
06:32<Xaroth>but one still requires the user password to sudo :)
06:32<Xaroth>bbl food
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06:50<fonsinchen>I put a std::map<StationID, LinkStat> into GoodsEntry and I want to save/load that. Is that a bad idea in itself?
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07:02*Forked discovers NoAI for the first time
07:03<Forked>I'm so gonna try them. :D
07:06<dihedral><petern> first thing i do in debian is install sudo ;) <- i install vim :-P
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07:12<Xaroth>dihedral: vim is pure evil :/
07:12<dihedral>no, you are
07:12<fonsinchen>If I want to save something as "REF", like for example RoadStops, does it have to be a pool item or can I circumvent that or is that a bad idea?
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07:13<Yexo>that depends on what it is
07:14<fonsinchen>It's the link capacities
07:14<Yexo>is there a good reason not to use the pool system?
07:14*Yexo has no idea what "the link capacities" are/is
07:14<fonsinchen>I have a std::map<StationID, LinkStat> in GoodsEntry
07:14<fonsinchen>I want to save/load that
07:15<Yexo>what is LinkStat?
07:15<Yexo>is that a pointer?
07:15<fonsinchen>LinkStat is a struct
07:16<fonsinchen>with two values - uint capacity; uint usage
07:16<Yexo>so why do you need to store a ref exactly?
07:16<Yexo>looks like you could just store "StationID, capacity, usage"
07:16<fonsinchen>I'd like to do that
07:16<fonsinchen>but how?
07:17<fonsinchen>the only thing I see there is SLE_CONDLST and then either individual values like SLE_INT32 or REFs
07:17<Yexo>1) create a saveload struct with 1 entry (StationID)
07:18<Yexo>2) Create another saveload struct with 2 entries (capacity, usage)
07:18<Yexo>3) in the save function, iterate over your map and call SlObject twice (first with the stationid, then with the LinkStat struct
07:19<fonsinchen>I guess I should reference it somehow in the SaveLoad struct for GoodsEntry?
07:20<Yexo>call the new save function from within the goodsentry save function, likewise for load
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07:20<Yexo>just make sure you know where the data is stored, so you can load it again
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07:44<dihedral>quack!
07:58<Ammler>mäh
08:01<dihedral>uh, have a link for you Ammler
08:02<dihedral>http://forums.jokerice.co.uk/showthread.php?p=16207
08:03<dihedral>the upper post :P
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08:06<Ammler>what is this jokerice for?
08:09<@Rubidium>story Heath's Oscar?
08:09<@Rubidium>s/story/storing/
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08:11<dihedral>Location: /dev/bash <- bash: /dev/bash: No such file or directory
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08:11<@Rubidium>ln /bin/dash /dev/bash ;)
08:12<dihedral>mkdir /dev ?
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08:12<dihedral>and /bin/dash ?
08:12<dihedral>:-P
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08:12<@Rubidium>your OS doesn't have dash?
08:12<@Rubidium>what a lousy OS ;)
08:14<DASPRiD>dasprid@dasprid-desktop:~$ which dash
08:14<DASPRiD>/bin/dash
08:14<DASPRiD>\o/
08:15<dihedral>i do, but why would i link dash to /deb/bash? :-P
08:15<@Rubidium>cause dash prevents bash-isms
08:15<DASPRiD>bash bashes your dash
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08:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15565 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#2675]: dependency information wasn't requested after the content state was reset causing the dependencies not always being selected (and thus downloaded) automatically.
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08:31<@petern>/dev/bash?
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08:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15566 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Change: reintroduce space as valid method of selecting 'content' as long as the filter box is not focused. Enter will also work when the filter box is focused.
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08:49<Nathan>Does anybody have a list of vehicles and what years they become available ?
08:50<KenjiE20>default's are on the wiki
08:50<@Rubidium>the wiki?
08:50<@Rubidium>but then... the year vehicles become available differs slightly between each run of OpenTTD
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08:59<Nathan>Could you link me, on wiki, I can only find the anmes of the vehicles, not what year they are issued.
09:00<Nathan>An average date would be fine :)
09:01<KenjiE20>Nathan; Look in the OTTD Manual orange box, the heading 'vehicles' is what you're after
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09:03<Nathan>Ohhh, i didnt notice the link to the "conparrison table" Thankyou
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10:47<Yexo>planetmaker: around?
10:47<Forked>meep meep
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11:06<dihedral>planetmaker is round yes, :-D
11:06<SmatZ>nah, he's slim :)
11:08<planetmaker>uhm... :)
11:08<planetmaker>Been slimmer once :D
11:09<planetmaker>What's up, Yexo?
11:09<Yexo>I've a patch for you to test for FS#2674
11:09<Yexo>at least, in a moment, after I fixed another bug :p
11:09<planetmaker>that was the signal nearly-non-issue, right?
11:10<SmatZ>http://www.mps.mpg.de/solar-system-school/students/borstel.html if that's you :)
11:10<planetmaker>yes
11:11*planetmaker looks forward to that patch. But give me...two hours. I'll have to finish some text here first
11:14<dihedral>hehe
11:14<dihedral>hihi 'planetshaker' :-D
11:14<dihedral>not stirred :-P
11:15<planetmaker>oh, I rather stirr the constituents than shake them :P
11:19<@Rubidium>"Will it blend? Planetmaker"
11:19<@Rubidium>or is that too rigurous for stirring?
11:19<planetmaker>hu?
11:20<planetmaker>:D
11:20<SmatZ>It blends!
11:20<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you don't know will it blend?
11:20<SmatZ>only Chuck Norris doesn't blend
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11:21<planetmaker>:D
11:21<planetmaker>I guess the answer is: partially :)
11:22<SmatZ>Rubidium: you learned how to kick? :-p
11:23<+glx>SmatZ: it's my script :)
11:23<SmatZ>glx: it kicks for what?
11:24<+glx>chuck n.
11:24<SmatZ>hahaha :)
11:24<Forked>if that was a manual kick it was the best response time I've ever seen :)
11:24<dihedral>SmatZ, chuck norris is the blender
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11:25<SmatZ>:-D
11:25<@Rubidium>@seen dihedral
11:25<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 6 seconds ago: <dihedral> SmatZ, chuck norris is the blender
11:25<SmatZ>:-P
11:25<Forked>nice try :p
11:25<SmatZ>yeah :)
11:25<+glx>[17:25:10] <DorpsGek> Error: I cowardly refuse to kick myself.
11:25<SmatZ>:-)
11:26<dihedral>hehe
11:26<SmatZ>glx: why do you have kick for that? is there a kicklist somewhere? :-p
11:26<dihedral>chuck
11:26<dihedral>norris
11:26<dihedral>:-D
11:26<dihedral>you use a regex?
11:26<dihedral>:-P
11:26-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd
11:26*SmatZ thinks about zero-width space and other unicode tricks :)
11:26<dihedral>yep
11:27<+glx>if ($str.matchnocase(chuck*norris, $3)) { <-- yes
11:27<dihedral>norris, chuck <- that then works
11:27<Forked>hm.. what about chuck norris?
11:27*Forked won
11:27<SmatZ>congratulations, Forked :)
11:27<dihedral>:-P
11:27<Forked>oldest trick in the book when it comes to triggers like that
11:27-!-Forked was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you won]
11:27-!-Forked [~kjetil@presenterer.formye.info] has joined #openttd
11:28<Forked>(manual rejoin on kick)
11:28<+glx>spam
11:28<dihedral>write a DorpsGek alias :-P
11:28<Forked>shutting up now.. getting back to work.
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11:31<@petern>how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
11:31<@Belugas>a chunk
11:31<el_en>2.3 inches.
11:32<@Belugas>nonon... a 9 inch
11:32<@Belugas>and nails
11:32<@petern>would a woodchuck chuck chuck norris?
11:32-!-petern was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [petern]
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11:32<@petern>so why is chuck norris a banned phrase?
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11:33<@petern>i like chuck norris films
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11:33<SmatZ>:)
11:33<Singaporekid>nhuck corris
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11:34<Sacro>chuck norris?
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11:34<Sacro>wtf
11:34<Singaporekid>norris
11:34<@Belugas>chunk morris
11:35<Singaporekid>norris chuck?
11:35<el_en>texas ranger
11:35<Singaporekid>win
11:35<@petern>chuck norris
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11:35<@petern>chuck norris
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11:35<@petern>chuck norris
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11:35<Forked>openttd is a great game.. thank you all for creating it :-)
11:36<@petern>chuck norris
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11:36<@petern>chuck norris
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11:36<@petern>chuck norris
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11:36-!-petern was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Yexo]
11:36<Forked>now how did this regexp ignore work again..
11:36<el_en>petern is stuck in an infinite loop
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11:36<@petern>chuck norris
11:36-!-petern was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [petern]
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11:37-!-DorpsGek was kicked from #openttd by petern [DorpsGek]
11:37<@petern>chuck norirs
11:37<@petern>chuck norris
11:37<@petern>:D
11:37-!-chucknorris [~notme@cm88.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
11:37*chucknorris
11:37<SmatZ>hello chucknorris
11:37<chucknorris>I'm Chuck Norris.
11:37-!-chucknorris [~notme@cm88.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit []
11:38<Singaporekid>Oh.
11:38<@petern>sorry 'kid
11:39<@orudge>well.
11:39<@orudge>!seen TrueBrain
11:39<@orudge>.seen TrueBrain
11:39<@orudge>@seen TrueBrain
11:40<@orudge>hmm, maybe not
11:40<@orudge>oh, wait
11:40<@orudge>is that using the bot you just kicked, eh?
11:40<el_en>404 DorpsGek
11:42<Forked>hm
11:42<planetmaker>gosh... you're really re-playing Battlestar Galactica here :P Humans vs. bot ;)
11:42<planetmaker>log looks like a slaughter...
11:42<Forked>didn't need regexp.. -pattern was enough
11:43<Yexo>s/at/e/ :p
11:43-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E2E9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
11:43<Forked>hah =p
11:44<@petern>great
11:44<@petern>i can have my own super sekret developer channel right here now that everyone's ignored me :D
11:44<+glx>stupid bot, doesn't reply to /invite
11:45<@petern># danger mouse
11:46<@petern># do do, do do, do do, do doooo
11:50<@orudge>do not.
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11:55<db48x>sync buffers are the new thing
12:07<Forked>dihedral: still no talking from the neko dude.. is he still on the forum? :p
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12:10<Felicitus>good night :)
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12:14<welshdragon>hmm
12:15*welshdragon wondres which devs don't like Warrington Bank Quay
12:15<welshdragon>erm
12:15<welshdragon>damn paste
12:16<welshdragon>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41918&p=767289#p767289
12:17<Yexo>have you seen any reply from a dev in that topic?
12:19<welshdragon>no, nut from what the last poster said he must have talked to somebody
12:19<Yexo>you're assuming way too much
12:19<Yexo>from what the last poster said he might as well have taken a shot in the dark
12:20<welshdragon>lol
12:20<Yexo>but if you want to know, I don't like that feature
12:20<welshdragon>what would you suggest?
12:21<Yexo>simply not adding restrictive signals. :p
12:21<Forked>buy a slower engine :\
12:21<@Belugas>rumors are quite prone to be taken for cash on forums...
12:21<welshdragon>Forked: erm no
12:21<@Belugas>or hard fact
12:21<Yexo>imo signals that behave different for different trains don't fit in the game
12:21<@Belugas>and Tony is no relly connected to the devs in any way...
12:22<welshdragon>ok, ty Belugas
12:22<welshdragon>Yexo: but the patch has a simiklar feature (iirc)
12:22<welshdragon>(similar)
12:22<Yexo>welshdragon: so what?
12:23<Yexo>openttd != ttdpatch
12:23<@Rubidium>ofcourse "I don't need it and thus don't intend to code it" ends up with "the devs don't like it"
12:23<Forked>I see alot of use of the word "realistic" as argument in that thread..
12:23<+glx>that's a good reason to not add it ;)
12:23<@Belugas>and it's so boring to comment on forums... most of the time, it's an escalation that always turnes around the fact there is not reason (and i reject all been given by a dev) to not do this or that feature.
12:23<@Belugas>that;s boring
12:24<welshdragon>glx: but some people like realsim
12:24<@Belugas>yeah... i love those reasons... it had realism
12:24<@Belugas>fuck them hard with a ten foot poll!
12:24<Forked>so create or play a game that is trying to be realistic :)
12:24<@Belugas>it's a gaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmeeeeeeuuuuuhh!
12:24<@Belugas>it's NOT REALITY!!!!
12:25<@petern>setting speed limits could have advantageous effects on traffic flow, possibly
12:25<@petern>dunno though
12:25<Singaporekid>Remember the old miniin with PBS and yellow signals? It was great.
12:25<@petern>yes
12:25<Singaporekid>Or the hackykid stuff build.
12:25<@petern>especially when your trains crashed for no reason :D
12:26<@petern>stuff!
12:26<Singaporekid>Mine?
12:26<KingJ>It could, if a train sees a red signal ahead it could slow down slightly so that it reaches the signal as soon as it turns green, rather than having to stop and accelerate again
12:26<@petern>everyone's
12:26<Yexo>hmm, that thread was about speed signals. I thought it was about "routing restrictions", or "programmable signals", whatever you call that feature
12:26<@petern>i've still got a stuff patch somewhere :D
12:26<Forked>I remember trains crashing for no reason in the big maps patch by bilbo .. that was fun after building a gigantic network =)
12:26<@petern>signals are signals
12:27<@petern>would make more sense to do that sort restriction in the order list
12:28<@Belugas>agreed
12:28<@Belugas>but i guess people are influenced byt the way of the Patch
12:29<welshdragon>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41918&p=767289#p767289 how about waypoints?
12:30<@petern>well
12:30<@petern>if it involves waypoints then you can put speed limits in the orders
12:30<welshdragon>petern: some of us are lazy and want the game to do it ourselves
12:30<welshdragon>*itself
12:31<@petern>persuasive argument that
12:31<welshdragon>...yes
12:32<welshdragon>Waypoints don't do much (apart from assistance with routing) so adding something to them would be easier than signals
12:34<@Belugas>funny... craving for realism fur assigning functionnalities to objects that in a real life would not have o_O
12:34<welshdragon>i'm moving away from realism
12:35<@Belugas>good :)
12:35<@Belugas>I applause
12:35<@Belugas>see the game for what it is : a game!
12:35<Forked>and unlike real life.. you can have fun in a game :D
12:35<welshdragon>i thought it would be easier to implement on waypoint
12:36<@Belugas>easiness is one thing. usefullness and logic is another, i'd say
12:36<@Belugas>i'd rather see something new for the task than a reuse
12:36<@Belugas>i think that Richk brough up the notion of speed post or something like that
12:37<Swallow>You mean the routemarkers patch?
12:37<@petern>speed post would make sense, it doesn't interfere with waypoints or orders, and, erm, happens to be a bit more realistic ;)
12:37<welshdragon>(that r word)
12:37<welshdragon>i agree
12:38<@Belugas>this use of the forbidden word is accepted
12:38<welshdragon>is there a thread on the forums?
12:38<@Belugas>heheh
12:38<@petern>er, well you made one
12:38<@Belugas>is there a search on the forums?
12:38<@petern>now write the patch :D
12:38<welshdragon>petern: i'm no coder
12:38<welshdragon>you however are
12:38<@petern>*shrug*
12:38<welshdragon>i'll pay you in cookies
12:38<@petern>you could have a go
12:39<@Belugas>SOMEONE TO THE RESCUE OF welshdragon!!
12:39<welshdragon>Belugas wants cookies?
12:39<@petern>cookies made of beer
12:39<planetmaker>Belugas: are you sure, you're interested in that (the rescue)?
12:40*petern wasn't a coder once
12:40*planetmaker was a child once
12:40<@petern>i don't think anyone was born coding
12:40<@petern>maybe donald knuth
12:40<planetmaker>:D
12:40<planetmaker>latex also not always works predictable...
12:40<@Belugas>i ain't not going to work on dat
12:41<planetmaker>time for dinnere :) Catch you later.
12:41<welshdragon>hmm
12:42*welshdragon has never done coding, and doubt he will be able to do it
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12:42<@petern>of course you won't, if you never try
12:42<welshdragon>i may have dyslexia, so it would be very hard
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12:43<@petern>right
12:44<@petern>i'm going home
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13:05<@Belugas>pffff.... distorded echo of a converstation..
13:05<@Belugas>"I can see why the devs don't like it (it's making it more realistic)"
13:05<@Belugas>Noo... not exactly...
13:06<SmatZ>hehe
13:06<dihedral>:-D
13:06<dihedral>btw Belugas i love what you have written on realism in OpenTTD
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13:12<@Belugas>thanks
13:12<Forked>£1 dino is using my binary
13:12<Forked>shame on him
13:15<dihedral>we should spike some binaries on the forums :-P
13:17<dihedral>[18:54] <welshdragon> [18:42:30] i may have dyslexia, so it would be very hard <- does that mean you just comment and dont read?
13:17<dihedral>i recall some guy stating something like that about his disability
13:17<welshdragon>dihedral: both
13:18<dihedral>tell you something, i have that disability too, however i dont moan about because of it :-P
13:18<dihedral>+ i read all i can get
13:18<dihedral>and i use google
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13:21*petern ponders LUA
13:21<planetmaker>Yexo: you had something to test for me?
13:22<planetmaker>quack
13:22<dihedral>quack quack
13:22<dihedral>petern, the language or the nick in the list? :-P
13:23<planetmaker>:P
13:24-!-ecke [~ecke@pc154-219.upce.cz] has quit []
13:24<@petern>quack?
13:24<planetmaker>the sound of a duck ;)
13:24<Yexo>planetmaker: yes, http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/fs2674.diff
13:25<@petern>ah
13:25<@petern>ducks?
13:25<@petern>hmm
13:25<Yexo>SmatZ: I haven't been able to get the convert button working as we discussed
13:25*Prof_Frink ducks
13:25*Yexo is away for 30 min
13:26<dihedral>Prof_Frink, now do a duck with lua :-D
13:27*Prof_Frink does a platypus
13:28<planetmaker>:)
13:28<planetmaker>Yexo: works as I imagined it should work :)
13:28<+glx>we are looking for OSX 10.3.9 users
13:29<+glx>or people with access to it
13:30*planetmaker wonders wether apple will give away a 10.3 version for free
13:30<planetmaker>and whether it's worth to write an e-mail to them about it.
13:30<+glx>planetmaker: it still requires the correct hardware
13:30<Prof_Frink>Apple? Free?
13:30<welshdragon>glx: sadly i have 10.5.6
13:30<Prof_Frink>Bahahahahahahaha!
13:31<planetmaker>glx: hm... no intel, I guess... you're right.
13:31<Sacro>could pearpc it
13:32<+glx>Sacro: we prefer real stuff to test :)
13:32<@Bjarni>I considered the pearpc solution too, but it's far from ideal
13:34*planetmaker thinks that that problem won't be solved by pearpcs.
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13:38<Ammler>is it possible to disable that external part for squirrel so you can checkout it self?
13:39<Ammler>(because it uses wrong rev)
13:39<planetmaker>?
13:39<SmatZ>Ammler: I don't know about better solution than cd src/3rdparty/squirrel && svn up -r xxx
13:40<Ammler>after checkout?
13:40<Ammler>hmm, try that
13:40<SmatZ>yes
13:40<SmatZ>though there is a problem when you downgrade to pre-15027
13:40<SmatZ>and then you want to upgrade to r15027+, you have to rm -R src/3rdparty
13:41<SmatZ>or maybe there is a better solution...
13:41<+glx>just svn up in 3rdparty too
13:42<SmatZ>svn: Failed to add directory 'src/script': an unversioned directory of the same name already exists
13:42<SmatZ>hmm it seems there are more problems with that :(
13:42<+glx>TB failed the merge
13:42<SmatZ>like, svn up <downgrade> doesn't remove directories... or so
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13:52<Ammler>hmm, I am not able to handle squirrel :-(
13:54<Roest>qick little bastards
13:54<Roest>+u
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13:57<dihedral>Ammler, what's the prob?
13:57-!-NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:57<Ammler>I need to begin with clean trunk, first...
13:57-!-Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust620.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:57<planetmaker>always a good idea :)
13:57<dihedral>what do you want to do?
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13:58<Ammler>dihedral: I like to compile r15549
13:58<dihedral>and where is the issue?
13:58<Ammler>I will tell you, maybe it was something lese...
14:04<Ammler>looks like trunk is working
14:06<Ammler>next try now on mingw :-)
14:07<welshdragon>how can i view the train's calling points in the train window (r15480), or is that a non supported feature?\
14:07<Ammler>ctrl-?
14:08<Ammler>(the questionmark is just because I am not sure, what you mean, else you should try ctrl-click)
14:10<welshdragon>Ammler: tried.... hmmm
14:10*welshdragon searches the wiki
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14:14<Sedontane>could someone point me towards the road stations and one way roads code in the source cos I searched for 2 hours earlier and couldnt find it. Thanks
14:16<Yexo>Sedontane: I'd expect both in road_cmd.cpp
14:17<Yexo>also station_base.h and road_map.h may be of interest
14:18<planetmaker>Yexo: that diff looks quite ok to me and works here like intended
14:18<Yexo>planetmaker: I committed it 3 minutes ago :)
14:19<Yexo>thanks for your testing :)
14:19<planetmaker>oh, ok :) no worries, my pleasure :)
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14:26<Sedontane>thanks pm
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14:32<energetic>I have asked this before. Now I have put some more effort and time in it; I failed again though. Point here is: I cant find code in ottd proving the manual's claim that food/goods help a towns growth
14:32<energetic>Is there anyone who wrote/knows where this code is?
14:33<energetic>ether I overlooked it, or its in some class/codefile you dont expect it...
14:33-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:34<frosch123>search for TE_FOOD and TE_WATER
14:34<frosch123>also todays nightly displays a notice in townview window, if food or water is needed for growth
14:35<frosch123>after you have found TE_FOOD and TE_WATER in economy.cpp you can search for act_food and act_water
14:35<Alberth>energetic: a grep on 'Growth' in the source dir gave me "town_cmd.cpp:enum TownGrowthResult"
14:35<frosch123>those you will find then in town_cmd.cpp
14:35-!-wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-82.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
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14:38<Wolf01>hello
14:39<Yexo>hi Wolf01
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14:40<el_en>England prevails!
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14:42<@Darkvater>bah, who kicked me out?
14:44<Singaporekid>Chuck Norris
14:45<Singaporekid>D:
14:46<dihedral>haha
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14:51<@Darkvater>rejoice, for I have received my 24" 16:9 LCD :D
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14:52<KingJ>I'll stick with my 24" 16:10 LCD thanks
14:52<@Darkvater>hehe
14:52<@Darkvater>16:9 bette r:)
14:53<@Rubidium>and now they'll brag about their resolution...
14:53<@Darkvater>hi Rubidium
14:53<KingJ>No 16:10 - more pixels!
14:53<@Rubidium>superhivision!
14:53<@Darkvater>fullHD, xtra large mega screen
14:53<@Darkvater>besides, I'm OP ^_^'
14:54<KingJ>Oh, sorry master
14:54<@Darkvater>that's better ;)
14:54<@Darkvater>hmm, anyone else has the dark knight on bluray, or the 1080p x264 version?
14:54<@Darkvater>mine seems to "switch" between black bars at top/bottom and no black bars several times during the movie
14:55<@Rubidium>ghehe ;)
14:55<@Rubidium>my monitor wouldn't do that
14:55<@Darkvater>it's not the monitor, it's the movie
14:55<@Darkvater>or the codec, or whatever
14:55<@Rubidium>still, with my monitor it wouldn't do that
14:55<@Darkvater>just wondering if the movie is made like that or ffdshow's acting up
14:57<@Rubidium>with 16:10 it would just make the bars slightly bigger and then smaller again
14:58-!-M4rk [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
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14:59<@Darkvater>hmm, I think the movie is made like that
15:00<@Darkvater>but the good thing is that now I can develop for openttd in peace
15:00<@Darkvater>would be a shame of good real estate :)
15:00-!-Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:01<@Darkvater>ah
15:01<@Darkvater>The Blu-ray version presents the film in a variable aspect ratio, with the IMAX sequences framed in 1.78:1, while scenes filmed in 35 mm are framed in 2.40:1.
15:01<@petern>that would be quite annoying
15:02<@Darkvater>it happens on a scene-change...it was only after I've seen it for the third time that I noticed
15:02<@Darkvater>new screen, eh? ;)
15:03-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm88.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:03<@petern>i got one yeah
15:03<@Darkvater>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41970&start=0
15:03<@Darkvater>hehe
15:04<@Darkvater>"removing sound card crashes openttd"
15:04<@Darkvater>I wonder why? :P
15:05<@Darkvater>@seen truebrain
15:05<@Rubidium>"removing that thick wire from the back of my computer shuts down OpenTTD without saving even when I enabled save on exit"
15:05<@Darkvater>we should write a patch for that
15:05<@Rubidium>Darkvater: snow sees TrueBrain
15:05-!-Mortomes [~mortomes@e224212.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05<@Darkvater>very annoying
15:07<@Rubidium>how're the screenshots progressing?
15:08<@Rubidium>need the stack of user screenshots send to info@ ?
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15:26<@Belugas>[14:53] <@Darkvater> rejoice, for I have received my 24" 16:9 LCD :D <--- i'm sure your credit card smiles too ;)
15:28<dihedral>perhaps it's even from smile.co.uk
15:31<planetmaker>anyone here knows a good image sequence to movie programme for Mac?
15:31<planetmaker>I googled a bit, but it didn't seem to come by as easy as I'd hope for (like VirtualDub for windows)
15:31-!-Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
15:31<Tefad>isn't there some iProduct for that
15:32<planetmaker>well, yeah, there are some programmes I could buy :) I was hoping for free stuff :)
15:33<Tefad>haha mac. haha free..
15:33<Tefad>maybe you want handbrake?
15:33<dihedral>planetmaker, is there not one in iLife?
15:33<dihedral>surely there is
15:33<dihedral>i have made dvd's with that stuff before
15:33<planetmaker>there's this imovie - but it only takes pre-made clips. Or I'm stupid :)
15:34<planetmaker>or not patient enough ;)
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15:34<welshdragon>planetmaker: it can use still pictures
15:34<dihedral>yes, imovie
15:34<dihedral>you can even pick albums from iPhoto
15:34<planetmaker>hm... then I shall have a 2nd more thorough look :)
15:34<planetmaker>ty guys
15:34<welshdragon>are they on your camera planetmaker?
15:34<dihedral>and while it creates the burnable cdr image, iSleep
15:35<planetmaker>they're in my openttd screenshot folder
15:35<dihedral>oh NICE
15:35<dihedral>i know whats coming
15:35<planetmaker>:)
15:35<dihedral>YIPHEE
15:35<welshdragon>planetmaker: hmm, not sure it'll work
15:35<dihedral>it'll work
15:35<welshdragon>ho you have iwork?
15:35<dihedral>it's iLife
15:36<planetmaker>hm... do not yet own iwork. But iLife.
15:36<dihedral>iWork used to be Keynote and Pages, and now it also includes the excel thingy
15:36<dihedral>keynote and pages are awesome
15:36<planetmaker>But I'm thinking of getting iWork somewhen soon like this weekend :)
15:37<dihedral>NICE
15:37<Ammler>glx: do you have a up2date patch for win2console.diff?
15:37<welshdragon>planetmaker: use finder to drag pictures into imovie
15:38<dihedral>welshdragon, iMovie has built in support to access albums from iPhoto
15:39<welshdragon>dihedral: oh?
15:39<dihedral>aye
15:39<welshdragon>wgere?
15:39<welshdragon>*where?
15:39<dihedral>somewhere, cannot remember
15:39<welshdragon>oh, i know where
15:41<+glx>Ammler: it's not a patch
15:41<+glx>Ammler: http://devs.openttd.org/~glx/convert.zip
15:42<welshdragon>oh. before i forget again, can conditional order jumps be used with waypoints?
15:42<dihedral>did you try?
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15:44<welshdragon>i did, they do work, but not as i expected
15:45<dihedral>hehe
15:46<Ammler>glx: there is output "Converting to console" but I get still the -h in a window.
15:46<Ammler>something else to do?
15:47<welshdragon>hmm, so i can tell a train to 'jump' a waypoint if its speed is above a certain limit, so a fast train will jump to station b and not go via the waypoint if his speed is above 100mph (this might not make sense)
15:48<@Rubidium>it doesn't work based on current speeds
15:48<Sacro>dihedral: numbers is awesome too
15:48<dihedral>:-)
15:50<welshdragon>Rubidium: ah, thanks
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15:51<+glx>Ammler: -d -h
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16:00<Ammler>how do I "pipe" with mingw? "./openttd -d -h | head -1" seems not to work
16:02<@Rubidium>try head -n 1
16:02<+glx>it's in stderr IIRC
16:03<@Rubidium>strings bin/openttd | grep -e '^r[0-9][0-9]*'
16:04<@petern>:D
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16:28<welshdragon>Sacro: can i run an openttd server over the internet?
16:28<welshdragon>or do i have to forward ports?
16:29<Ammler>depense, if you want other to join you. :;-)
16:29<Yexo>@ports
16:29<Wolf01>I had to backward ports
16:29<welshdragon>@ports
16:29<@Rubidium>Yexo: blame petern
16:29<Yexo>dorpsgek still isn't here :(
16:29<Wolf01>@sport
16:30<Sacro>welshdragon: you need to forward pots
16:30<Wolf01>meltin pots? or just pots?
16:30<welshdragon>Sacro: (sigh) guess i can't host my own server then
16:30<Ammler>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Port
16:31<frosch123>[22:33] <DorpsGek> OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
16:31*welshdragon knows Sacro won't allow him to forward the ports
16:31-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
16:31<energetic>frosch123+Alberth: thanks. Still have not seen the goods code. I will conclude hereby goods dont help town growth?
16:31<planetmaker>:)
16:32<planetmaker>energetic: check out todays nightly. Then you'll see w/o looking through the code
16:32<frosch123>energetic: goods only make more money :)
16:32<energetic>planetmaker: what do you mean?
16:32<planetmaker>moooar ;)
16:33<planetmaker>energetic: what frosch123 (?) told you before: as of today the needed goods are shown in the town window
16:33<planetmaker>s/goods/cargo/
16:33<energetic>you mean water+food?
16:33<planetmaker>whatever helps a town grow.
16:33<planetmaker>in arctic it's certainly not water
16:34<planetmaker>in temperate it's nothing
16:34<energetic>err
16:34<energetic>arctic maybe food, tropical maybe water+food
16:34<energetic>but
16:34<frosch123>energetic: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/foodwateraccepted2.png http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/foodwateraccepted3.png <- you should find those windows in nightly
16:35<energetic>is it: "whatever helps a town grow" or: "whatever a town _needs_ to grow"?
16:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15567 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2674]: When building signals by dragging from a pre/entry/combo block signal, the signal you started at became a normal block signal.
16:35<Yexo>it's "whatever a towns needs to grow"
16:35<Yexo>"whatever helps a town grow" == "have much regural serviced stations (no matter which cargo)"
16:36<energetic>well water and food was known, and is listed on the wiki manual page correctly. But goods are listed on the manual page, but isnt actually implemented in ottd.
16:36<energetic>it says goods delivery helps a town grow. --> which is incorrect.
16:36<Yexo>so go fix that wiki page :p
16:36<frosch123>then fix the manual
16:36<energetic>no
16:37<energetic>you guys should fix the code ;)
16:37<dihedral>twat
16:37<energetic>hehe
16:37<dihedral>sorry
16:37<Yexo>the code is always the correct reference :)
16:37<Alberth>energetic: line 603 of town_cmd.cpp mentions goods
16:37<dihedral>but yeah
16:37<energetic>just kidding
16:37<Alberth>no idea what it means though
16:37<energetic>it checks there if goods r accepted
16:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15568 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: *allocT/AllocaM doesn't return NULL when allocating fails
16:38<Yexo>that commet is a bit odd there
16:38<Yexo>no idea what it means
16:38<frosch123>newgrf stuff
16:38<energetic>not actually doing somehting with the goods amount like if(act_goods >0) town_grow_multiplier++;
16:38<frosch123>the sign of cargoacceptance defines whether a house accepts goods or food
16:38<Forked>chico008 posted a link on the forum to a file containing trg*.grf .. in the IS thread
16:38<energetic>but since I know quite some about the mechanics now, ill update the page soon
16:39<energetic>just need to get the facts right
16:39<energetic>first
16:39<Alberth>that seems like a logical order of doing things
16:39<dihedral>no, write a patch for r10000 and give it to alain
16:40<Yexo>Forked: if you posted a link to his post, it'd be a lot easier to locate
16:40<energetic>then later ill write the patch increasing towngrowth using anystuff dropped nearby
16:40<Forked>Yexo: I'm just about to report it
16:40<welshdragon>translations have a lot of commits pending
16:40<dihedral>they get commited every night
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15569 /trunk/src/ (oldpool.cpp screenshot.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: replace MallocT + memset( 0 ) calls by CallocT
16:40<@Rubidium>welshdragon: depends on what you call a lot
16:40<Forked>Yexo: but it's http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=767352#p767352
16:41<energetic>tnx guys for helping me out here
16:41<Forked>link to the win32 client, not the save obviously :)
16:41<welshdragon>my 3 commits to welsh have yet to be added to SVN
16:41<dihedral>well at least he says thank you ;-)
16:42*Forked takes the dog for a walk
16:42-!-Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
16:42<energetic>Yexo: that surely adds to the fun factor
16:43<energetic>(the code is always the correct ref)
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16:45<energetic>nice windows updates btw :)
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17:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15570 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: Too long strings in the advanced settings window are now truncated.
17:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15571 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: incorrect use of memset
17:27-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:31*planetmaker wonders... why were my language updates I made last evening not included in todays nightly?
17:31<+glx>because
17:31<planetmaker>(I completely futily speeded with translating the three new strings)
17:31<planetmaker>:P
17:31<planetmaker>minimum number of string changes over all languages?
17:32<SmatZ>there wasn't Translators' commit today
17:32<planetmaker>yeah.
17:32<planetmaker>Who does that?
17:32<SmatZ>no, it depends on in how good mood Rubidium is ;)
17:32<planetmaker>Is it manual or automatical? It was my impression it was automatical... :P
17:32<+glx>it's manual
17:32<planetmaker>Good though, that Rubidium is no bot :D
17:32<+glx>as wt2 often fails :)
17:33<planetmaker>he...
17:33<planetmaker>thx for this clearification :)
17:34<planetmaker>explains why I couldn't detect a pattern so far, too :)
17:34<SmatZ>:)
17:34<dihedral>planetmaker, shortely before a nightly build
17:35<planetmaker>dihedral: yeah. But not always :)
17:35<dihedral>exceptions are proof of the rule :-P
17:35<planetmaker>And the yes/no doesn't have a predictable pattern to me :)
17:36<planetmaker>(which doesn't matter, but I was curious)
17:37*Rubidium was preoccupied with more important things ;)
17:37<planetmaker>:)
17:37<Wolf01>'night
17:37-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:38<planetmaker>night, wolf...
17:38<planetmaker>mäh
17:45<dihedral>planetmaker, playing with your life?
17:45<planetmaker>:D
17:45<planetmaker>No, reading Leonie Swann's "Glennkill"
17:47-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
17:49<@Bjarni>hehe... instead of playing with his life, planetmaker decided to read "...kill"
17:50-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50<planetmaker>:)
17:50<@Bjarni>in a way it is playing with life
17:50<planetmaker>Bjarni: its a criminal story - where sheeps are the detectives ;)
17:50<Sacro>Bjarni: love you ;)
17:50<@Bjarni>aren't they called "sheep" in plural?
17:51<@Bjarni>1 sheep, 2 sheep
17:51<@Bjarni>zzz
17:51<+glx>yes like aircraft
17:51*Sacro leans on Bjarni and falls asleep
17:52*Bjarni wakes up and realise his bed is infested
17:52<dihedral>glx: one aircraft, two planes
17:52<+glx>lol
17:52<dihedral>:-P
17:52*Bjarni sets his bed on fire to avoid the contamination to spread
17:53<@Bjarni>1 cow, tucows(.com), 3 cows, 4 cows
17:53<dihedral>moo
17:54<dihedral>now lets do the same thing with dice
17:55<planetmaker>yep... plurals... I should go and count sheep ;)
17:56<dihedral>one... zzzzzz
17:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15572 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13730): theoretical buffer overflow when company with too long name funded a road reconstruction
18:01<planetmaker>exactly dih :)
18:04<planetmaker>dihedral: what's the max numbers JJ can handle reasonably?
18:04<planetmaker>@calc 2**61 - 1
18:04<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2305843009213693952
18:04<planetmaker>^^not prime, but it's a mersenne prime
18:04<SmatZ>DorpsGek: doesn't seem to be significantly better in math than JJ
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>either it is prime or it is not prime
18:05<planetmaker>SmatZ: same bot, different name ;I
18:05<SmatZ>ah :)
18:05-!-Eddi|zuHause is now known as Eddi|zuHause2
18:06-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>weird...
18:07<@Rubidium>planetmaker: if something isn't a prime, it can't be a mersenne prime
18:07<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: can I say "3.1 is not a prime"? I think it's undefined... maybe it depends on how you specify primality, but you can't say "remainder of division" for non-natural numbers
18:07<planetmaker>Rubidium: well. I found 2**61 - 1 in a list of mersenne primes
18:07<FauxFaux>"Primality is a property of positive integers that specifes.."
18:07<planetmaker>So my assumption is that this bot has a limitation on its numbers
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>3.1 (in |R) is a unit, units can never be primes (hence why 1 is not a prime)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>a number in a ring is a unit, if it has an inverse (for multiplication)
18:08<planetmaker>http://primes.utm.edu/mersenne/
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>FauxFaux: that's the elementary school definition of primes...
18:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: then that number must be a prime (or the list is incorrect)
18:10<SmatZ>Rubidium: DorpsGek fails to compute 2**61 - 1 correctly
18:10<planetmaker>well... wiki knows the same exponent of 2 to indicate the 9th mersenne prime
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you are mixing different maths
18:12<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: ?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if i define 2+2=5, then you cannot apply theorems which rely on 2+2=4 anymore
18:13<SmatZ>[00:08:07] <Eddi|zuHause> 3.1 (in |R) is a unit, units can never be primes (hence why 1 is not a prime) <== does it mean you can have primes defined for any ... monoid?
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: there are more or less useful ways to generalise primes
18:14<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: well, then at least one of symbols "2,+,=,5" don't have the "usual" meaning
18:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: well. But then the definition of what constitutes a prime isn't valid anymore either as prime is so far only defined over the body of the positive integers
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, and in this case, "**" does not have the "usual" meaning
18:14<planetmaker>especially mersenne prime isn't defined there
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but then "2**61-1 is a tramway" has the same amount of meaningful information as "2**61-1 is a mersenne prime"
18:16<planetmaker>exactly
18:17<planetmaker>I assume you've read David Hofstadter? An eternal golden Braid?
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>i have read nothing...
18:17<planetmaker>you should, you'll enjoy it :)
18:17<planetmaker>honestly
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18:24<planetmaker>so... going to count sheep for now :)
18:24<planetmaker>Have a good night folks :)
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15573 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15538): Terrain type and sea level couldn't be changed in the scenario editor.
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19:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15574 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#2680]: force unload not working when trying to force unload at the station where you received the cargo
19:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15575 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename GameModes to GameMode and store _game_mode as GameMode instead of as byte.
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19:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15576 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: rename SwitchModes to SwitchMode and don't hardcode the values for that enum.
19:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15577 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp network/network.cpp): -Codechange: bool _networking belongs in network/ not gfx.cpp
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20:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15578 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): -Change: unexternalise squirrel.
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20:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15579 /3rdparty/: [3rdparty] -Cleanup: svn:externalising heavily modified third party components with an unstable API doesn't work
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20:45<@Rubidium>someone failed at counting sheep it seems ;)
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21:02<thingwath>in times of crisis, there are not enough sheeps to count...
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 25 00:00:05 2009