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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-25

---Logopened Wed Feb 25 00:00:05 2009
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02:02<dihedral><SmatZ> [00:04:59] DorpsGek: doesn't seem to be significantly better in math than JJ <- they are both the same software!
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03:16<planetmaker>good morning
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03:18<dihedral>sir!
03:18<dihedral>;-)
03:19<Forked>greetings
03:21<dihedral>on friday all doom related channels will be removed from oftc \o/ :-P
03:22<planetmaker>he...
03:22<dihedral>oftc claims that the few doom related channels have a higher support-time than the entire network together :-P
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03:34-!-mode/#openttd [+b mortal`!*@*] by petern
03:34-!-mode/#openttd [+b mortal``!*@*] by petern
03:34<Forked>why thank you, sir
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03:41<@petern>what's the reason for r15579?
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03:41<@petern>it breaks everyone's check out :D
03:42<@Rubidium>prevents people from committing to the wrong place
03:42<@Rubidium>and 15578 equally well breaks your check out
03:52<@petern>er
03:52<@petern>that's the one i meant :o
03:54<@Rubidium>that's so it's still possible to make bugfixes to the stable branches and it's much easier with svn up and 'normal' branches
03:54<@Rubidium>and those hg/git people don't complain every few hours that they had to manually update the squirrel dir
03:54<@petern>hehe
03:55<@Rubidium>hmm... interesting... copy paste CAN cause desyncs
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03:55<@petern>!
03:56<@Rubidium>as in 'exclamation mark' or as in 'not'?
04:01<@Rubidium>petern: any idea what FS#2662 is about? Or can't you understand him either?
04:02<SmatZ>De_ghosty: is here and I reminded him about that task...
04:03<@Rubidium>SmatZ: so did I days ago, still no reaction
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04:13<@petern>more of a ?!
04:14<@petern>"signal block does not change"
04:14<@petern>that's not a bug report
04:14<@petern>i am not faffing around with grfs and savegames if the 'report' is so vague
04:16<dihedral>@fs 2662
04:16<@DorpsGek>dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2662
04:21<@petern>hmm, so many people don't bother removing their account setups after they're cancelled
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04:24<Timitry>Hm, anyone by any chance knows in which tr... file the signals are?
04:25<Timitry>*trg##.grf
04:25<Timitry>The standard signals
04:25<@petern>yes, i do
04:25<Timitry>And would you be so kind to tell me? ;-)
04:28<Timitry>Hm, well, the OpenTTDw.grf has most if not all of them...
04:28<@petern>the original game only has one type of signal
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05:04<dihedral>burp
05:07<SmatZ>*cough*
05:14<@petern>what's up?
05:16*dihedral pats SmatZ .... (that rhymes) .... on the back
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>"if the only tool you have is a poet's mind, every sentence looks like a rhyme"
05:19<@petern>?
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>nevermind ;)
05:19<dihedral>i think petern is confuddled
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07:13<Firzen>Hi all. I wanted to translate some wiki articles into german and don't really know how to link the translated site to the original one. Wikipedia uses links like [[de:link]] but OpenTTD:Manual_of_style says I should use Translation:title_(de). May anyone enlighten me? :D
07:25<planetmaker>good question actually :)
07:26<planetmaker>You might try out both and see which is linked to or re-directed to, if you use the usual localized link, though.
07:26<planetmaker>Maybe Rubidium knows the answer though :)
07:26<MrFrans>yea, just try the one in the manual.
07:26<MrFrans>it should create the link to page where the translation should be.
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07:28<planetmaker>hm... seems to re-direct to the English one :P
07:30<MrFrans>Maybe check other translated pages and see how those are linked to.
07:30<MrFrans>and what the title should be.
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07:32<Firzen>I'll try [[de:title]] and then see... I noticed that this will be displayed if the link does not exist but seems to not appear if the link exists (in preview) so maybe it'll work.
07:32<dihedral>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyVh1_vWYQ
07:32<dihedral>hehe
07:33<dihedral>can you perhaps find out who wrote the instructions on the translation thingy
07:33<Firzen>And btw there is no translation anywhere actually, is it?
07:33<dihedral>and perhaps contact that person
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07:33<dihedral>it does not make sense to do it different if all languages follow a certain way, and there might be a valid reason for the difference
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07:34<Firzen>Yeah. But i wonder if I shoul do things like Translation:OpenTTD:title then for OpenTTD: pages...
07:35<Firzen>should*
07:37<MrFrans>fyi: Airplane Crash near amsterdam. http://twurl.nl/2iczdn
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07:50<planetmaker>[13:33] <Firzen> And btw there is no translation anywhere actually, is it? <-- not that I'm aware of. Unfortunately.
07:50<planetmaker>Given some questions in especially the German forum a "rtfw" would be nice sometimes :)
07:51<Firzen>rtfw?
07:51<MrFrans>read the fucking wiki, i think.
07:51<Firzen>Ah xD
07:51<MrFrans>instead of rtfm anual.
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07:52<planetmaker>yeah :)
07:53<Firzen>A GRF is just a change of some graphics and no object addition, isn't it?
07:53<Firzen>Or did I get that wrong...
07:53<planetmaker>uhm...
07:53<MrFrans>can be both.
07:53<planetmaker>what's a "object addition"?
07:54<Firzen>A new object.
07:54<MrFrans>a new train.
07:54<Firzen>In the game.
07:54<Firzen>e.g.
07:54<planetmaker>yeah. can be.
07:54<planetmaker>It can also be neither.
07:54<planetmaker>It can be just that e.g. power plants learn to close down
07:54<Firzen>Because I'd really like to add some industries.
07:54<planetmaker>or it can be that bridges cost 64 as much as usual
07:55<Firzen>So GRF is something like a general Add-On
07:55<planetmaker>or it can be that the silicon and wood bridge switch their images.
07:55<planetmaker>Yes.
07:55<Firzen>OK.
07:55<MrFrans>Yea, planetmaker I'm thinking newgrf button in the game, should be called addons. So people who aren't part of dev community can understand what it means.
07:55*MrFrans should probably post that on the forum.
07:55<planetmaker>I introduced in the German ingame strings the word "Erweiterung" for anything like newGRF, AIs...
07:55<Firzen>What do GRF mean btw?
07:56<planetmaker>grf. graphics
07:56<planetmaker>but... it's an ancient name
07:56<planetmaker>it's just grf
07:56<planetmaker>graphics resource file
07:56<MrFrans>erweiterung is expansion, right?
07:56<planetmaker>yes
07:56*MrFrans is dutch
07:56<Firzen>But "Graphics" misses the point, doesn't it?
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07:56<MrFrans>yes
07:57<planetmaker>well, yes
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07:57<planetmaker>grf = graphics resource file
07:57<planetmaker>so... adding new properties to existing graphics is a valid option, too
07:57<planetmaker>or changing.
07:57<Firzen>You could now just pretend it's not your fault and define it as "GameaddonResourceFile" :P
07:58<planetmaker>Generic ;)
07:58<planetmaker>General
07:58<MrFrans>it basically also tells what a graphic can do. If you see the graphic as a object.
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07:58<planetmaker>sort-of
07:58<Firzen>Though this game just contains graphics <.<
07:59<planetmaker>...?
07:59<Firzen>No 3D models or collisions like in 3D games
07:59<Firzen>Only oldschool 2D graphics ^^
07:59<Firzen>Located so that they look like a world.
08:00<planetmaker>The result is what matters
08:00<Firzen>It's unique.
08:00<Firzen>Still.
08:00<Firzen>Though there is this LocoMotion.
08:00<MrFrans>which is also 2d
08:00<planetmaker>then play Locomotion or TransportEmpire
08:01<planetmaker>or whatever. I didn't look at any :P
08:01<MrFrans>transport empire isn't a playable game yet, is it?
08:01<planetmaker>dunno. Might be :)
08:01<Firzen>3D xD
08:01<planetmaker>but probably not :P
08:01<MrFrans>yea
08:02<planetmaker>what would you gain by 3D? Not much. And loose 100% performance.
08:02<Firzen>But TTD is very comprehensive. Will take very long time to remake this.
08:03<Firzen>360°-view :P
08:03<MrFrans>Yea.
08:03<MrFrans>Mostly the models.
08:03<Firzen>Plus x and y axis rotation and free zoom.
08:03<planetmaker>With the introduction of the advanced and selectively invisibility features the need to rotate the map in order to see whether you can build X there or not also vanished completely
08:04*MrFrans nods
08:04<planetmaker>You don't need 3D-models for free zoom. You just need vector graphics
08:04<Firzen>If all ppl would think like planetmaker the computer research would have stopped 20 years ago and we'ld use DOS ^^
08:05<planetmaker>Firzen: no.
08:05<MrFrans>true for about the zoom.
08:05<planetmaker>But there are things which don't make sense within a certain framwork
08:05<planetmaker>+e
08:05<Firzen>Vector textures? :o
08:06<Firzen>Shame on me this game consists of textures xD
08:07<MrFrans>basically it is graphice that scales to higher resolution when you zoom in. I believe it does this, by describing the graphic mathimatically.
08:07<Firzen>Games are more successfull the more they imitate the reality.
08:07<MrFrans>hah.
08:07<MrFrans>you mean the more they imitate movie reality.
08:07<Firzen>Yeah.
08:08<MrFrans>which does not equal reality,
08:08<Firzen>In case of TTD the real reality
08:08<Firzen>I never saw a film about TTD xD
08:10<MrFrans>Most games don't equal reality, they just have prettier pictures. I wish life had so much bloom as games nowadays have.
08:11<MrFrans>"We make the world dark and dirtier because that is real" "Now it looks depressing, let's at glow and bloom" "Oh pretty" "More!" "More!"
08:11<planetmaker>realistic (what is that) doesn't mean necessarily more gaming fun
08:11<MrFrans>exactly planetmaker
08:11<planetmaker>the charm of this game imo is exactly the style of the graphics and how things are handled.
08:12<Firzen>I like the Multi-Window Feature ^^
08:12<planetmaker>adjusting it to some kind of 3d locomotion-like graphics is... a depressing thought
08:12<planetmaker>(from what I see in the screeshots
08:13<Firzen>Yeah these 3D worlds don't look serious and not realistic.
08:13<Firzen>More like plastic.
08:13<planetmaker>cheap one at that
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08:15<Firzen>Is there an option how much subventions are offered per annum/month/whatever?
08:16<planetmaker>not afaik.
08:16<planetmaker>They're useless anyway :P
08:16<Firzen>The subventions?
08:16<planetmaker>sure
08:17<planetmaker>going for them is IMO a waste of money and time
08:17<planetmaker>I never look for or at them
08:17<Firzen>Yes, but I take them as missions to not have to be creative.
08:17<planetmaker>there are always more profitable projects without subsidies.
08:17<Firzen>Yeah
08:17<planetmaker>even then. Pick two random industries which can exchange cargo and you're most likely better off
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08:18<Firzen>It's too simple to get rich.
08:19<planetmaker>start with less loan, high interest, very early and increased costs
08:19<MrFrans>http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224
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08:19<Firzen>Sounds like a possible solution planet ^^
08:19<planetmaker>starting 1970 with 1M loan and low interest and normal costs is... indeed no challange money-wise.
08:19*Firzen forgot that he plays always as easy as possible.
08:20<planetmaker>two airports, two planes and an annual income of 1 million is at least guaranteed.
08:20<Firzen>Yeah.
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08:20<MrFrans>locomotion isn't all that different planetmaker. it has just a few more rotations for the trains. how it looks depends on the graphics developer.
08:20<planetmaker>though felicitus' new train AI was more successfull with his train route :)
08:20<Firzen>Is the Multiplayer from Open TTD or is it a native TTD Feature?
08:21<planetmaker>I *think* OpenTTD.
08:21<Firzen>I like this MP.
08:21<Firzen><3
08:21<Firzen>Though I don't get how to setup a custom server,
08:21<Firzen>,=.
08:22<blathijs>Firzen: TTD had multiplayer, but only two-player IIRC
08:22<blathijs>Firzen: OpenTTD's multiplayer is completely rewritten
08:22<planetmaker>just start your game as multiplayer and select to run the server :)
08:22<planetmaker>or run it with openttd -D
08:24<Firzen>Will the companies be deleted after an amount of time if they don't get under 0 $?
08:25<planetmaker>yes.
08:25<planetmaker>four consecutive quarters below 0$
08:25<planetmaker>(always the 1st day of the quarter counts only)
08:26<Firzen>and above 0$?
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08:27<planetmaker>why should they?
08:28<planetmaker>oh, you're so poor. I've pitty. I'll shoot you?
08:28<Firzen>I mean if a company has no players and runs on a root server
08:29<Firzen>Will it survive?
08:29<@Rubidium>depends on the settings
08:29<Firzen>If it has a positive income
08:29<planetmaker>depends upon config.
08:30<Firzen>k. I think it's all set up in this cfg file that's described on the wiki!?
08:30<planetmaker>yes/always after n months/only without password after n months
08:30<planetmaker>I guess
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09:24<Brokkoli>hi
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09:24<Brokkoli>is anyone here who can halp me with newgrfs?
09:25<Brokkoli>is have a question for tihs line:
09:25<Brokkoli> 53 * 14 02 02 0C 81 86 00 FF 01 0B 00 00 00 00 00
09:25<Brokkoli>what is "var 86" i cannot find it out..
09:26<@petern> VarAction2Vehicles
09:26<@petern>Variational Action 2 Variables for Vehicles print
09:26<@petern>history
09:26<@petern>NewGraphicsSpecs -> GRFActionsDetailed -> Action2 -> VariationalAction2 -> VarAction2Vehicles
09:26<@petern><< VarAction2Advanced VariationalAction2 VarAction2Stations >>
09:26<@petern>Variational Action 2 Variables for Vehicles
09:26<@petern> * Variational Action 2 Variables for Vehicles
09:26<Brokkoli>yes
09:26<@petern> o Position and length (40, 41)
09:26<Brokkoli>so here
09:26<Brokkoli>http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html#_VehicleArray
09:26<@petern> o Consist cargo (42)
09:26<@petern> o Player info (43)
09:26<@petern> o Aircraft info (44)
09:26<@petern> o Curvature info (45)
09:26<@petern> o Motion counter (46)
09:26<@petern> o Vehicle cargo info (47)
09:26<@petern> o Vehicle type information (48)
09:26<@petern> o Count Veh.ID occurence (60)
09:26<@petern> o Modflags (FE and FF)
09:26<@petern>Variable Size Content
09:27<@petern>40 D Position in consist and length of consist
09:27<@petern>41 D Position in and length of chain of consecutive vehicles with same ID
09:27<@petern>42 D Cargo types transported by consist
09:27<@petern>43 * D Player info
09:27<@petern>44 D Aircraft info
09:27<@petern>45 D Curvature info
09:27<@petern>46 D Motion counter
09:27<@petern>47 D Vehicle cargo info
09:27<@petern>48 * D Vehicle type information
09:27<@petern>49 a D Year of construction (long format, 0 based)
09:27<@petern>60 D Count Veh.ID occurence
09:27<@petern>97 B Tick counter, increased every engine tick
09:27<@petern>B4 W Current speed (note, units different for each vehicle type)
09:27<@petern>B9 B Cargo type (type B from the list at CargoTypes; climate dependent)
09:27<@petern>C0 W Vehicle age in days (not valid for wagons bought before alpha 61)
09:27<@petern>C4 B Year built (counted from 1920), note this is modified when Cht: Year is used
09:27<@petern>C6 W Vehicle type ID (useful for Callback 1D)
09:27<@petern>C8 B Sprite type; FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
09:27<@petern>C9 B Day counter; increased daily
09:27<@petern>wtf
09:27<@petern>that is *not* the bit i selected :(
09:27<@petern>and irssi didn't prompt either :(
09:28<@petern>sorry about that
09:28<@petern>right
09:28<KenjiE20>lol
09:28<Brokkoli>*g*
09:28<Brokkoli>but what now?
09:28<@petern>yes, when you get to the ttd locations bit, you need to subtract 0x80 from the variable
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09:28<Brokkoli>is it this: 06 L Pointer to the schedule string (see location 01C18), FFFFFFFF if N/A
09:28<Brokkoli>ok
09:28<@petern>whatever a schedule strnig is...
09:28<Brokkoli>makes no sense to me
09:28<Brokkoli>yes... i dont know
09:29<Brokkoli>and dont know why someone wohul check it there
09:29<Brokkoli>and compare a byte of it to 0
09:29<@petern>is it definitely for a vehcile?
09:29<Brokkoli>since its a pointer it can be anything
09:30<Brokkoli>i got that from decompiling a grf
09:30<Brokkoli>02 should be a vehicle as i think
09:30<Brokkoli>ah ship
09:30<@petern>02 is yes, but it's possible it's misfeatured, although i think that is disallowed now
09:31<@petern>if the feature of the action 3 is also 02, then it's ship, yes
09:31<@petern>and if someone tests var 0x86 in ottd, it won't work :D
09:31<@petern>what grf is it?
09:31<Brokkoli>how can i check that?
09:31<Brokkoli>the nshp_ecs.grf
09:31<@petern>follow the action 2 forward
09:32<Brokkoli>last lines are
09:32<Brokkoli> 53 * 14 02 02 0C 81 86 00 FF 01 0B 00 00 00 00 00
09:32<Brokkoli> 54 * 14 02 02 0D 81 0C 00 FF 01 0C 00 18 18 00 00
09:32<Brokkoli> 55 * 6 03 02 00 00 0D 00
09:33<@petern>callback 18
09:33<@petern>AI construction hmm
09:34<@petern>in that case it's special
09:34<@petern>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#AI_construction_purchase_selection_18_
09:34<Brokkoli>ok thanks
09:34<Brokkoli>so its
09:34<Brokkoli>86 B AI construction event
09:34<@petern>but
09:34<@petern>callback 18 is not done through feature 2...
09:34<@petern>hm
09:35<@petern>or perhaps the feature does not matter in that case
09:37<Brokkoli>hm
09:37<Brokkoli>but thanks it helped me a lot
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09:49<Brokkoli>does the new openttd ai use that at all?
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09:50<Felicitus>howdy
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09:50<Felicitus>hmm, i just transported 450.000 liters of water over a distance of 1000 squares in about 250 days - but i only got an income of 112k :(
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09:53<Felicitus>is the time factor relative to the distance or is it separate?
09:53<Brokkoli>should be relative
09:54<Felicitus>hmm, then i dont understand why it is only 112k
09:54<Felicitus>when i calculate it manually, it should be over one million
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09:56<Brokkoli>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cargo_income
09:56<planetmaker>hey Felicitus :)
09:57<Brokkoli>not relative
09:57<planetmaker>Felicitus: the first water arrived at the station way before the train left. The generation time of the water counts afaik
09:58<planetmaker>but most likely that doesn't suffice to explain the difference.
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09:58<dihedral>oi
09:58<dihedral>rosenkohl!
09:58<planetmaker>yummi ;)
09:58<Brokkoli>huch
09:58<@Belugas>Felicitus, have you checked the source code when doing your manual calculation?
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09:59<Felicitus>Belugas: yes
09:59<Felicitus>but maybe i've overlooked something
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09:59<Felicitus>planetmaker: yes, i know that, the second train only made 160k even tough it left immediately
10:00<planetmaker>k :)
10:00<Felicitus>maybe the max days of the cargo is not depending on the distance
10:00<planetmaker>uhm... no, it isn't afaik.
10:00<Brokkoli>no its not
10:00<Felicitus>hmm that would explain it
10:01<Brokkoli>it thats correct: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cargo_income
10:01<Felicitus>so every day counts once i'm over the late days variable
10:01<Felicitus>ok, so if i make that distance in less than 80 days i would theretically get the full amount
10:02<planetmaker>if you teleport, you'd get even more :P
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10:02<Brokkoli>less than 20 days i think
10:03<Brokkoli>and when its over 20+80 days, time doesn't matter anymore
10:03<Brokkoli>last was wrong
10:03<Brokkoli>of cause it matters
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10:15<Felicitus>hmm next time i'll stick with something where max_days are 255
10:19<planetmaker>:P
10:19<planetmaker>the AI is anyway making huge ass money with the trains, choosing good routes
10:20<planetmaker>definitely more profitable than AdmiralAI with rails:)
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10:25<Felicitus>thanks :)
10:25<Felicitus>but i guess it will fail if the routes are too long (just as me :))
10:28<planetmaker>hm... maybe that's what the problem was when I tested it yesterday. It didn't get beyond the first rail line.
10:28<planetmaker>it is a 256 x 1024 map
10:28<planetmaker>you find it in the forums
10:30<planetmaker>it just collected money but the only KI debug output which continued to get added occasionally was related to the not implemented save function
10:30<Firzen>BtW what about the Trams? Can't build trails for them...
10:31<planetmaker>Firzen: you need a tram grf...
10:31<Firzen>Oo k
10:31<Firzen>Why aren't they included by default like electric trails?
10:31<planetmaker>also, it's a road type (accessible similar to different rail types)
10:32<planetmaker>the images are. But no vehicles. So no point making them available
10:32<Firzen>I see...
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10:51<Brokkoli>Firzen: i would use egrvts.grf for trams
10:51<Brokkoli>thats a good collection there
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10:52<Brokkoli>and its in the content downloader
10:52<Firzen>k thx
10:52<planetmaker>indeed. It's currently one of the best vehicle sets around
10:54-!-NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd
10:54<planetmaker>and it's afaik the only one which allows you to reasonably play from ~1870 onwards
10:55<KingJ>I always start around 1980 or later, I hate slow transport
10:55<Brokkoli>i start 1855 most times :D
10:55<Brokkoli>sadly no streamship-set exists
10:55<Brokkoli>or i dont know any
10:56<Forked>Spanish Galleon
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11:06<PierreW>firzen is like furzen. its just one key away. </being_a_stupid_german>
11:07<Firzen>Unfortunately
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11:25-!-AmixE90 [~AmixE@ggsn-pool0x51-150.networknorway.no] has joined #openttd
11:25<AmixE90>Hi
11:26<AmixE90>What do you think of Kurts servers?
11:30-!-davis- [~iloveme@p5B28DBD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:32<@Belugas>kurts has a big mouth :)
11:32<AmixE90>Any plans for next release?
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11:39<frosch123>yes, remove support for human players
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11:43<AmixE90>Ahh, so that you have to get a MorphOS based PPC machine to play :)
11:43<@Belugas>[11:41] <frosch123> yes, remove support for human players <--- YES YESYYES!!!!
11:45<AmixE90>Cats instead?
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11:46<Brokkoli>apes
11:46<@Belugas>openttd already support apes...
11:46<AmixE90>Planet of the apes?
11:50<@Rubidium>AmixE90: which one?
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12:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15580 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#2684]: last activity time not properly updated causing downloads to be aborted after a minute.
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12:08<AmixE90>Rubidium: all of them
12:08<AmixE90>:)
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12:35<Swallow>If rail type A is compatible with rail type B, is B then also guaranteed to be compatible with A?
12:36<Sacro>no
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12:37<KingJ>Normal and electrified rails as a good example of non-backwards compatibility
12:38<Swallow>electric is compatible with normal v.v.
12:38<frosch123>compatible != powered
12:39<KingJ>Oh, oops
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12:56<Swallow>I added an FS task, although fixing it is currently unneeded: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2685
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13:00<@petern>well it's closed :p
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13:07<@Belugas>ooooops...
13:07<@Belugas>was on a conference call, was getting bored, gone through the "news" and... bang!
13:07<@Belugas>closed it :)
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13:09<Forked>but you're less bored now? :)
13:09<@Belugas>not really... Vadim is still around, playuing with my nerves ;)
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13:19<Brokkoli>is the mapgenerator bug in the beta known? when having no water at the borders in tropic climate there i green land at the borders
13:19<Brokkoli>looks a bit strange
13:19-!-goodger [~ben@host81-155-192-33.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:19<Brokkoli>not an important bug, though ;)
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13:20<frosch123>post it to bugs.openttd.org :)
13:22<Yexo>Brokkoli: is the land at all borders completely green?
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13:22<Yexo>here it's green at some places and desert at others
13:23<Brokkoli>yes sometimes it's desert
13:23<Brokkoli>but too much green
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13:30<energetic>@seen Felicitus
13:30<@DorpsGek>energetic: Felicitus was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Felicitus> but i guess it will fail if the routes are too long (just as me :))
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13:32<@Belugas>My opinion : not a bug. Random assignation
13:33<Yexo>I'm not so sure, he's right that there is a bit too much green
13:33<Yexo>more than 'random' would explain
13:33<frosch123>Half-Desert is decided by checking the neighboured tiles, how does it deal with MP_VOID ?
13:34<Yexo>no special at all
13:34<Yexo>iirc
13:34<Yexo>bu tI have to go now
13:34<frosch123>so a TropicZone is also generated for MP_VOID tiles?
13:34<energetic>oh, only 7581 errors when compiling
13:35<Brokkoli>maybe thats the reason
13:35<Brokkoli>on my servers current map there is no desert at the borders at all.. all green
13:37<Brokkoli>some generated maps have desert at the borders
13:37<Brokkoli>but only some
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15581 /trunk/src/lang/ (17 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-25 18:44:53
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 7 changed by Ludslad (7)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 3 fixed by Hadez (3)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 12 fixed, 13 changed by ThomasA (25)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
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13:46<frosch123>TropicZone generation looks fine, and also when I generate a map I cannot see any special green tiles
13:47<frosch123>there is both desert, half-desert and green land at all borders
13:47<frosch123>s/both/everything/
13:47<Brokkoli>maybe have a look at my server
13:47<Brokkoli>stne openttd is the name
13:48<frosch123>meh, then I would have to install beta1
13:48<Brokkoli>ok
13:48<Brokkoli>i could save the map
13:49<Brokkoli>or maybe the bug isnt in the nightlys?
13:50*frosch123 compiles beta1
13:50<Brokkoli>i will show you a screenshot
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13:51<Brokkoli>http://einniemand.dyndns.org/openttd/greenedges.jpg
13:52<Brokkoli>too much green i think ;)
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13:53<frosch123>hehe, those sharp borders look weird
13:53<Brokkoli>they do
13:53<frosch123>btw. you can do .png screenshots with ctrl-s
13:54<Brokkoli>yes i forgot ;)
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13:59<frosch123>found the problem: desert is not generated next to water, and the water check wraps around the map
13:59<frosch123>also present in trunk
13:59<Brokkoli>ok
14:00<frosch123>you always have those green borders, if there is water on the opposite side :)
14:00<Brokkoli>ah
14:00<Brokkoli>yes i had 2 warter borders
14:00<Brokkoli>-r
14:00<Brokkoli>and 2 non water.. so it's clear ;)
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15:44<Felicitus>hmm, is there a maximum of goods a factory can produce? seems to stuck at something like 2k crates, no matter how much stuff i feed into it
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15:46<Felicitus>ah okay forget the question
15:46<Felicitus>its now up to 3k :D
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15:56<Felicitus>wheeee 4k crates
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16:01<Felicitus>is it crazy to have an 8 track main line to deliver goods?
16:02<Prof_Frink>Depends. If there's a one-track bottleneck then yes.
16:02<SmatZ>Felicitus: around 25k crates
16:03<Felicitus>SmatZ: okay, that will take a while to break that limit
16:04<Felicitus>Prof_Frink: well, i started out with a regular 2 track and the problem was, that everything got stuck because of breakdowns...so i expanded to 4, then to 8
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16:05<Felicitus>so right now, the 4 tracks on each side are independent of each other...i wonder if that will change with pbs
16:05<welshdragon>Felicitus: got any screenies?
16:06<Felicitus>welshdragon: i can make one
16:06<Prof_Frink>8 tracks and no pbs? Ouch.
16:06<Felicitus>Prof_Frink: 0.6.3 multiplayer
16:07<Felicitus>but the tracks aren't connected to each other
16:07*welshdragon can't wait for 0.7.0 multiplayer
16:07<welshdragon>pbs!
16:09<Felicitus>i still have to learn pbs for the AI
16:11<Felicitus>welshdragon: http://www.timohummel.com/ttd/
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16:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15582 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp landscape.h): -Cleanup: Remove unused function AdjustTileCoordRandomly(). Btw. it would also cause desyncs and wrap around the map.
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16:28<Noldo>nice "btw"
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16:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15583 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Fix: Do not use TILE_MASK when you do not want to wrap around them map.
16:30<frosch123>old ai stuff :)
16:30<Felicitus>;)
16:30<Felicitus>Yexo: are you here?
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16:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15584 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Move several variables from variables.h to more appropriate headers.
16:47<Yexo>Felicitus: yes :)
16:47<Yexo>missed the highlight for some reason
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16:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15585 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp map_func.h town_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Remove TILE_ASSERT and replace all instances with assert(tile < MapSize()).
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16:57<Felicitus>Yexo: is there an API call to find out if a train is dual headed?
16:58<Yexo>no, and there won't be one either
16:58<Yexo>apart from dualheaded, a train can also be articulated
16:58<Felicitus>whats articulated?
16:58<Yexo>consisting of multiple parts
16:58<Felicitus>ah okay
16:58<Felicitus>so i have to build the engine and then get the train length?
16:58<Yexo>and you're not interested if it's articulated or dual-headed, you're interested in the length of the engine, right?
16:59<Felicitus>right
16:59<Yexo>the length of the train is only available (even to openttd) after the engine is bought
16:59<Felicitus>because sometimes, it builds a turner turbo and then the train is one waggon too long
16:59<Yexo>the way I solved that in admiralai: buy the engine, add wagons untill the entire train is just too long, then sell the last wagon again
17:00<Felicitus>i guess i will do it the same way
17:00<Yexo>some newgrfs also have wagons that are shorter then the default wagons, and in those cases you want to buy more wagons to get the same train length
17:00<Yexo>to just checking the lenght of the engine isn't enough
17:01<Felicitus>yes i noticed that in another gam
17:01<Felicitus>e
17:03<Yexo>petern: imo it'd be better to disable the whole base graphics set dropdown in the game, not only disable all entries
17:03<Yexo>that way it's directly visible you can't change it
17:04<Ammler>why isn't that possible?
17:04<Yexo>Ammler: are you talking about the train length?
17:04<Yexo>that's because of newgrf callbacks
17:04<Ammler>no
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17:05<Ammler>the base gfxs
17:05<Yexo>ah, dunno exactly what the reason was you couldn't change it ingame
17:06<@petern>well
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17:06<@petern>it matches the other disableable dropdown
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17:07<Yexo>hmm, you're right
17:07<Felicitus>okay, i'm in bed now
17:07<Felicitus>good night
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of spaces... the parameter list should work with commas, too, right?
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17:33<Sacro_>Ahh OSX
17:34<@petern>Ahh Windows Vista
17:35<SmatZ>Ahh Gentoo Linux
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17:41<Tefad>Ahh broken operating systems.
17:41<Tefad>(all of them. they're all broken.)
17:42<Sacro_>especially that MorphOS
17:42<@Belugas>Ahhhh.... HOME!!
17:42<SmatZ>bye bye Belugas
17:43<@Belugas>bye SmatZ :) enjoy the night, as well as the silent other ones :)
17:43<SmatZ>:o)
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17:45<@petern>Hmm, yes, I suppose I ought to head to bed.
17:48<SmatZ>night petern
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20:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15586 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp): -Fix [FS#2687]: Changing vehicle.dynamic_engines when there are already vehicles can cause crashes.
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