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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-28

---Logopened Sat Feb 28 00:00:18 2009
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00:53<Arsonide>Hey I got a little nostalgia and was thinking of reinstalling Locomotion (had a lot of fun with it back in the day), when someone pointed me to this...and it seems to be very similar, apparently there's a lot more to do here though.
00:53<Arsonide>One question though, how do I get music working in OpenTTD?
00:54<|Japa|>open winamp in the background
00:54<|Japa|>unless you actually like the midi's that come with TTD
00:54<Arsonide>I wouldn't mind the midis, if I knew where to put them.
00:55<Arsonide>Just...something, right now I'm hearing saw mills and boat whistles and silence.
00:55<Aali>did you check the wiki?
00:55<Arsonide>There's a wiki?
00:55<|Japa|>ust copy the GM folder from TTD
00:56<Arsonide>Excellent
00:56<Arsonide>Thank you
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01:33<Forked>morning
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02:26<AshKyd>Does anybody know if “No Town Bridges within 2 tiles” or similar functionality ever made it into OpenTTD, and if so how to enable it in the config file?
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03:21<Eddi|zuHause>did you try changing the road layout in the advanced settings?
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03:22<AshKyd>Not really. I think it’s on “better roads” but it’s built dour bridges right next to each other. I’ll see what the wiki says.
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05:37<Mark_>goodmorning
05:37<Mark_>any chance of getting oneway signs for trams?
05:50<el_en>"no" is a safe guess.
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06:24<tfarago>ah
06:24<tfarago>grrr
06:25<Alberth>not happy to be here?
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06:25<Darkvater>there
06:26<Alberth>welcome again
06:26<Darkvater>hmm what was the channel rejoin command
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06:27<@Darkvater>:)
06:27<@Darkvater> /cycle
06:28<@Darkvater>brb
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06:31<@Darkvater>hmm
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06:32<@Darkvater>(sorry guys, setting up new linux box)
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08:03<dihedral>oO
08:03<dihedral>2 Swallows
08:04<MrFrans>multiplying
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08:30<Foto2>I have downloaded OpenTTD 0.6.3 but i need the "Transport Tycoon Delux Location"
08:31<Foto2>I have downloaded OpenTTD 0.6.3 but i need the "Transport Tycoon Delux Location" Where can i download thats ?
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08:31<Foto2>I have downloaded OpenTTD 0.6.3 but i need the "Transport Tycoon Delux Location" Where can i download thats ?
08:32<Foto2>I have downloaded OpenTTD 0.6.3 but i need the "Transport Tycoon Delux Location" Where can i download thats ?
08:32<+glx>google knows
08:32<|Japa|>yup, it does
08:32<Foto2>no they dont know :P
08:32<+glx>you won't get a download location here
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08:34<Foto2>Why
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08:56<|Japa|>http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/62/24/lang,en/
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09:06<Forked>what is it?
09:12<Alberth>Forked: "CITIES XL™ is the next-generation in city-building games..."
09:12<Forked>oh ok
09:13<Alberth>completely buzzword compliant within the application domain :)
09:14<Forked>I somehow read "citisex" first =p
09:20<Alberth>oops, floating point exception. My code is not yet optimal
09:20<MrFrans>"# On going content production allowing player to regularly upgrade their game.
09:20<MrFrans># GEMs (Gameplay Extension Modules) allow players to switch their mayor position for CEO seats, from car dealerships to ski resorts, "
09:21<MrFrans>want to do everything in one game. *rollseyes*
09:21<|Japa|>as long as I can be a transport tycoon :P
09:23<Alberth>MrFrans: you missed the last part, about making persistent interconnected world with blogs and avatars
09:23<Alberth>s/world/worlds/
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09:24<Alberth>no way 'hundreds of buildings' is going to be enough
09:28<MrFrans>been in development since 2007, that makes it all a bit more believeable. Still makes me wonder about possible depth that the GEMs will have.
09:32<Swallow>If some advanced settings don't exist in an (old) savegame, does the game then use the default values, the _settings_newgame values, or something else?
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09:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
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10:05<|Japa|>hmm...
10:06<|Japa|>playing a flat, 64x64 map, with a single city in the middle, and no industries, is fun
10:06<|Japa|>it's a challenge to get al the passengers transported withing the city
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10:11<Alberth>yet there are users complaining that not enough people live in a city
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10:19<frosch123>why is there a water supply right next to my desert town, so I cannot fund a water tower...
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>make it close ;)
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10:38<MrFrans>"The gameplay associated with Transport GEMs should mainly be directed towards the usual transport tycoons produced so far with some new features that should bring more fun.
10:38<MrFrans>But that’s not all, if you use a Transport GEM in the context of the planet offer, you should get some more fun with other Transport GEM owners but I can’t say much about this for now…"
10:38<MrFrans>http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/52/68/lang,en/
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10:43<mackensen>hello
10:43<mackensen>has anyone else had trouble/tried compiling r15591?
10:44<Swallow>OS? Compiler?
10:45<mackensen>Linux, g++ 4.2.4
10:45<mackensen>never had a problem before the latest nightly
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>and we need to summon our telepathic powers to find out your error message?
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10:46<mackensen>Eddi|zuHause: getting there ;)
10:47<mackensen>"/home/cfulton/openttd/trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp:252: error: ‘_switch_mode’ was not declared in this scope"
10:47<mackensen>errors start there
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, there was someone messing around with variables.h recently
10:48<@SmatZ>mackensen: what configure parameters do you use?
10:48<mackensen>this may be unrelated, but svn throws an error message during update: svn: Failed to add directory 'src/3rdparty/squirrel': object of the same name already exists
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10:48<mackensen>SmatZ: defaults only
10:49<@SmatZ>mackensen: no, it's not unrelated
10:49<@SmatZ>remove that directory, then svn up again
10:49<@SmatZ>(it can be unrealated, but probably isn't)
10:50<mackensen>SmatZ: looks like that was preventing a full update
10:50<mackensen>gah, now svn's grumbling about a lock
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>svn cleanup
10:51<mackensen>Eddi|zuHause: I know, but it's not working
10:52<mackensen>okay, svn updated
10:52<mackensen>recompiling
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10:57<mackensen>that worked--odd that it had a problem with the squirrel directory
10:58<mackensen>thanks all
11:00<Sacro>`SpComb logs seem to be dropping things :(
11:00<SpComb>such as?
11:01<Sacro>zodttd was in this morning, i went to bed
11:01<Sacro>i see no mention of him being here in the lgos
11:01<Sacro>well, in last1000
11:01<Sacro>hmm, when I search I can find him
11:01<Sacro>but I can't go to the line in the logs any more
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>mackensen: the problem with the squirrel directory is that it was changed from an external to a regular directory
11:02<SpComb>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1235795810#1235795810
11:02<Sacro>hmm, strange
11:02<mackensen>Eddi|zuHause: okay, yeah, I saw something about that in the changelog
11:02<SpComb>Sacro: is it the timestamps?
11:02<zodttd>back
11:03<Sacro>zodttd: so i see
11:03<zodttd>Heh saw my highlight, and popped in
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11:23<zodttd>I was trying to get back in contact with Darkvater last night but we're on opposite timezones...I have OpenTTD up and running on the iPhone for "jailbroken" devices. Though I'm working on the same deal with another transport tycoon project, I was wondering if with the usage of OpenGFX I could bring OpenTTD to the AppStore as a free release? Assuming I provide complete sources and stay within the licensing agreement. Hence why I would like per
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>that's a nice idea, but opengfx is not fully finished yet, you'd get a horrible amount of reports for having black boxes move through the screen
11:29<zodttd>Thats what I was afraid of :(
11:31<zodttd>I hadnt heard about it for a bit, and went to the wiki and saw the 89% figure, and wasn't sure how much the other 11% was needed.
11:31<Aali>and even when that is finished, perhaps you should wait for the 0.7 release?
11:31<+glx>and there is still no replacement for sounds
11:32<Aali>AFAIK the missing graphics include all monorail/maglev vehicles and some town buildings
11:32<zodttd>True. And true. Well that squashes that.
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>well, it would be trivial to add an empty sample.cat ;)
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>you'd just have no sound
11:32<zodttd>Yeah I could release without sound, but not sure if thats the image to portray
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, sound is less essential than houses and trains ;)
11:33<zodttd>True! LOL :)
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and toyland is completely missing, i believe
11:34<zodttd>Yeah all I heard was toyland was missing. I didn't know about the others.
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i have never used OpenGFX, just seen a few screenshots, and there i didn't like it
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11:35<|Japa|>no, there are some opengfx sprites for toyland
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>|Japa|: yes. but they are not included in the pack
11:36<|Japa|>k
11:36<|Japa|>man I wish I could code
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>you don't need to code anything for opengfx
11:36<|Japa|>I also wish I could manage to DL the ottd source
11:36<|Japa|>nah, not opengfx
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>that's easy, just "svn co <URL>"
11:37<|Japa|>I want to know how to code so I can make two tracks per tile
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, please do that ;)
11:37<|Japa|>and I don't have a cool OS
11:37<Sacro>you can with || and =
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>you can do "svn co" even in uncool OSes
11:37<Sacro>just not with / and `
11:37<Sacro>\
11:37<|Japa|>yeah, but // and \\ would be sweet
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>that is a nice intention, but how do you intend to make switches?
11:38<zodttd>Design trumps coding in this case huh :)
11:39<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause trumps everything (loudly)
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's what i wanted to say, but i couldn't express it ;)
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>not trumpet, tuba
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11:40<|Japa|>well, at first, I was thinking just tio have it working on straights, with nothing extra
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>you don't get far with only straights
11:40<|Japa|>well, something like this: ---<===>--- is fine for trains to pass each other
11:41-!-Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:41<|Japa|>and for sexy stations
11:41-!-Hirundo is now known as Swallow
11:41<|Japa|>but I'm getting ahead of myself anyway
11:43<|Japa|>nooooo..... the Tortoise SVN that I have downloaded is the x64 one
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>bad idea ;)
11:43<|Japa|>damn my windows re-install
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13:00<batti5>I have a little suggestion, thare is a suggestion at ttd forum that sais in the ottd 0.7 final it should be a new title screen, i think thare should be a poll or something, whare people can thair own created title screen, and others vote, the title screen with the most votes can get in trunk, and the devs can judge it, what do you all think?
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13:05<Sacro>batti5: i think you get the award for most mistakes in a sentence.
13:05<Sacro>;)
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13:21<@SmatZ>batti5: OTTD doesn't allow the title screen to use any newgrf
13:22<@SmatZ>and I like the current title screen :)
13:22<Tim>I don't ;-)
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>i wish i could turn off sound in the title screen ;)
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13:24<+glx>SmatZ: static grfs are allowed
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>the only problem i have with the current title screen is that it gets rather dull when resolutions get higher
13:26<el_en>Are there any theories that can be taken seriously about a Nazi base on Antarctica?
13:27<Tim>Oo
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>i did never hear any
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13:35<Brokkoli>el_en: no
13:35<el_en>Ok.
13:36<@SmatZ>glx: those don't depend on the savegame though :)
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13:37<+glx>true
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13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15594 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-28 18:51:15
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 7 fixed by khaloofah (7)
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frisian - 51 fixed by luc (51)
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 25 changed by planetmaker (25)
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
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13:55<batti5> <SmatZ> You don`t understand, please view here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42044
13:56<el_en>batti5: the correct apostrophe character is ', not `.
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13:58<@petern>well no, ` is not an apostrophe...
13:59<el_en>indeed not.
13:59<Brokkoli>it's "something strange"
13:59<batti5>el_en sorry
13:59<@petern>i must admit i never found a use for the ¬ key either
13:59<Brokkoli>wheres that?
13:59<el_en>it is U+0600 grave accent
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14:00<Eddi|zuHause>AltGr+^
14:00<Brokkoli>no key for that here
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>interestingly, it's also on AltGr+6
14:01<el_en>lies, AltGr+6 is ¥.
14:02<worldemar>different keyboards?
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14:03<worldemar>i have italian keyboard at work and it differs from russian even in \ | ` ~ characters and etc
14:03<+glx>| <-- that's AltGr+6
14:03<thingwath>¬ is for negation?
14:04<@petern>¬ is shift+`
14:04<el_en>italian and russian, what a strange combination.
14:04<thingwath>AltGr+6 switches irssi to window six :o)
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>no, | is AltGr+<
14:05<@petern>| is shift+\
14:05<el_en>Eddi|zuHause is correct there.
14:05<+glx>well < is left to W
14:05<Brokkoli>left to X
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>no, Q is left to W ;)
14:05<@petern>left to?
14:05<@petern>left to my own devices, i probably would
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>< is left to Y, where it belongs
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>left of?
14:05<thingwath>pf, evil qwertz
14:05<@petern>< is left of >
14:05<Sacro>hmm
14:06<Sacro>qwertø
14:06<Brokkoli>< is below >
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>no, > is Shift+<
14:06<thingwath>qwertš!
14:06<@petern>> is shift+.
14:06<@petern>< is shift+,
14:06<+glx>azerty here
14:06<@petern>you silly people with your silly keyboards
14:06<Sacro>zwerty
14:06<Brokkoli>qwertz
14:06<el_en>I would hate to have a QWER<Y keyboard like Eddi does
14:06<@SmatZ>hehe
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14:21<batti5>can somebody help me with this http://paste.openttd.org/179965 please
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14:31<Eddi|zuHause>el_en: if you grew up with it, you get so used to it that you can't handle different layouts
14:36<@petern>(1962-1920)*365.25
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14:39<frosch123>15340.5
14:39<frosch123>boring
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14:52<el_en>Eddi|zuHause: de layout is actually quite nice when fin/swe is not easily available, because despite Y/Z prank, most shift+number combinations are the same.
14:53<frosch123>shift+number, reminds me of czech keyboard :)
14:53<@SmatZ>frosch123: you have used it?
14:54<frosch123>several times, but if it took longer I search for xmodmap :)
14:55<@SmatZ>ah, you need it to write "correspondence" with your czech partners, right?
14:56<frosch123>well, not me. but sometimes I have to show them stuff on their computer
14:56<@SmatZ>:-p
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15:00<frosch123>in fact it is a combined english/czech keyboard with both layouts printed on the keys. so it is even harder, as you can usally find the same symbol twice on the keyboard..
15:00<thingwath>most czech layouts sucks so bad, and people still use it... :)
15:01<@SmatZ>:o)
15:01<frosch123>most? how man are there?
15:01<frosch123>+y
15:01<thingwath>at least qwertz/qwerty versions
15:01<thingwath>and some modified "programming" layouts
15:01<@SmatZ>and the one which has numbers instead of characters with accents
15:02<@SmatZ>"czech amateur layout" or so...
15:02<thingwath>still, there is no common czech layout with correct czech „quotes“, for example
15:03<@SmatZ>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/kbdcz.htm http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/kbdcz1.htm http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/keyboards/kbdcz2.htm known by MS :)
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>„quotes“ <- those are not on the german layout either
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>sadly
15:04<thingwath>of course
15:05<thingwath>you simply have to make your own layout
15:05<@SmatZ>(for some reason, the links I posted don't work in FF nor Konqueror... maybe they work only in IE, but I can't test it)
15:05<thingwath>SmatZ: should I see someting on that pages? :)
15:05<thingwath>ah :)
15:06-!-Chommik [rafal@xdsl-14188.lubin.dialog.net.pl] has joined #openttd
15:06<@SmatZ>thingwath: I have no clue :) but I suppose so :)
15:06<Chommik>helo
15:06<thingwath>I only have Konqueror and Gecko :)
15:06<frosch123>„ ‟ ” “ <- if I only knew, which is the correct german one...
15:07<Chommik>i've a problem with unicode fonts. how do I change it in openttd.cfg?
15:08<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Unicode
15:09<Chommik>i'm doing is is written in it, but I get an error when I'm starting openTTD
15:09<thingwath>well, I could also use «french quotes», for example, even in czech, they are little strange, but also correct
15:09<Chommik>"nable to use '5x7.pcf.gz' for small font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead"
15:09<thingwath>(but of course, you won't find them on your keyboard)
15:09<Chommik>do I need to enter absolute path or what?
15:10<frosch123>arn't they like »this« ...
15:11<thingwath>those are called russian :)
15:11<thingwath>(at least in czech typography)
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15:13<Chommik>so, maybe it's something wrong with my X.org?
15:16<thingwath>shouldn't there be a fontconfig name for the font?
15:16<frosch123>small_font = /usr/share/fonts/misc/5x7.pcf.gz <- works for me
15:18<Chommik>ok, works :)
15:18<Chommik>and Unicode works too
15:18<Chommik>thanks so much, bye
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15:35<batti5><petern> (1962-1920)*365.25: 15340?
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15:47<batti5>need help, i created a grf, but it aint visible from newgrf add window, http://paste.openttd.org/179968 what is wrong? renum & grfcodec sais all ok.
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>damn, i just lost my 'A' key...
15:49<batti5>i need to go soon.
15:49<+glx>doesn't your action 8 miss a 00 ?
15:49<batti5>whare?
15:51<+glx><sprite-number> * <length> 08 <version> <grf-id> <name> <description>
15:51<+glx>you miss description
15:51<+glx>anyway your real sprites are not at the right place
15:52<+glx>I wonder how renum and grfcodec can say it's ok :)
15:52<frosch123>it is ok for grfcodec :)
15:52<+glx>yes it did a real grf
15:53<frosch123>and I guess nforenum thought it is no newgrf, so did not bother
15:53<batti5>wine renum.exe le5100.nfo
15:53<batti5>NFORenum v3.4.6 - Copyright 2004-2007 Dale McCoy.
15:53<batti5>Processing file "le5100.nfo".
15:53<batti5>Processing complete.
15:53<+glx>your sprite 5 should be sprite 0
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15:54<+glx>hmm no you completely forgot the sprite 0 indeed
15:54<+glx>the one telling how many sprites are defined
15:54<+glx>you should read and understand the docs first :)
15:55<pound_fool>reading is easy. understanding...
15:56<+glx>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TheFirstVehicle <-- this is what you need to understand batti5
15:58<batti5>i dont understand it
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16:01<Brokkoli>you should read the texts
16:02<batti5>still dont get it
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16:04<+glx>at least compare your nfo and the example, you will easily spot the differences
16:04-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd
16:04<maristo>hi
16:05<maristo>ĉu iu parolas esperanton?
16:05<+glx>english only please
16:06<maristo>i just asked about esperanto speakers
16:06<maristo>is here somebody of translation team
16:07<maristo>probably no
16:08<frosch123>2008-12-18 was the last esperanto translator active
16:08<frosch123>so if you want, you can be "the team"
16:09<maristo>good, i suppose esperanto.txt needs some corrections
16:11<frosch123>http://www.openttd.org/en/ <- see third post how to become a translator
16:12<maristo>i'm registered now
16:22<batti5>need help, http://paste.openttd.org/179969 on i loadit & apply it turns green, but it would not appare inplace off SH 40 electric
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16:24<+glx>do you add it in running game or in intro menu ?
16:25<+glx>you have 2 action 8
16:25<+glx>and 2 action 1
16:26<+glx>same for action 2 and 3
16:26<+glx>indeed you redefined engine 0 twice
16:28<+glx>you really should try to understand what you are doing
16:29-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:29<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:30<@SmatZ>hello Nite_Owl
16:31<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
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16:45<Turnskin>Hi all
16:45<Turnskin>Mozno po-russki pisat'?
16:45<@SmatZ>hello Turnskin, as the topic says, only English is allowed :)
16:45<@SmatZ>hmm no, topic doesn't mention that rule anymore...
16:45<Turnskin>Well, i have a question anyway
16:46<Turnskin>ECS
16:46<@SmatZ>Turnskin: if nobody here helps you, try asking here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34758
16:47<Brokkoli>whats your question?
16:48<Turnskin>OTTD 0.6.3 ECS latest (4b?). Self-made scenario with every kind of an industry
16:48-!-SmatZ changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3, 0.7.0-beta1 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
16:48<Turnskin>The problem is that most of farms begin to close like "This farm is inside the city border and is being closed" (translation)
16:49<+glx>don't let towns grow :)
16:49<Brokkoli>maybe less cities
16:49<Turnskin>But the distance between any city and this farm is more than 50 cells
16:50<Turnskin>E.g. map is 512*512 with 10 or so cities of 5k pop. max.
16:50<Brokkoli>ok..
16:50<Brokkoli>there could be a bug in 0.6.3?
16:50<@SmatZ>or in ECS ;) or intended behaviour...
16:50<Brokkoli>yes
16:51<+glx>ECS decides that by itself
16:51<Brokkoli>yes
16:51<Turnskin>Temperate, all ECS vectors included.
16:51-!-TinoM [~Tino@i59F5F7D1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:51<Brokkoli>but is the distance calulation correct?
16:51<Turnskin>Did anybody meet this situation?
16:51<Turnskin>Fruit farms and forests are being closed.
16:52<Brokkoli>using 0.7 beta i didn't have that problem
16:52<Turnskin>Brokkoli Well, it's much more 2 screens (of normal view of main window).
16:52<Brokkoli>haven't tried 0.6.3
16:52<Turnskin>I never met this later too.
16:54<Turnskin>Brokkoli What is 0.7? Where can i read it's features?
16:54<Brokkoli>openttd 0.7
16:54<Brokkoli>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-testing
16:54<Turnskin>Brokkoli OK, thanx
16:56<Turnskin>Brokkoli So, no passenger dests still in 0.7? :(
16:57<Brokkoli>no..
16:58<Turnskin>Brokkoli Does it 1) Support 0.6.3 (older?) scenarios 2) Building diagonal railways by dragging ?
16:59<Brokkoli>yes it does
16:59<Brokkoli>but i don't know if 0.7 final versions will support 0.7 beta savegames
16:59<Turnskin>I made nice ECS scenarios for TTDP and OTTD r120... and 0.6.3 but every time i was to do it from begining due to incompatibility.
17:00<frosch123>official versions are upwards compatible
17:00<frosch123>or downwards... never get that
17:00<Brokkoli>is the beta official?
17:00<Turnskin>Sounds good
17:00<Brokkoli>ok
17:00<frosch123>beta is official
17:00<Brokkoli>ok
17:01<Turnskin>Is George being here is That Great George, Famous GRFmaker? ;)
17:01<frosch123>however you can drag horizontal/vertical track only with autorail
17:02<frosch123>not with the oldschool-tools
17:02<frosch123>Turnskin: yes he is, but likely sleeping
17:03<Turnskin>Nice to meet him at least in userlist ;)
17:04<frosch123>otoh IIRC it is about midnight for him ...
17:04<Turnskin>OK, i'll download 0.7 and try.
17:04<frosch123>also update ECS vectors in that case
17:04<Turnskin>Yep, for me too - it's 4.05 in Siberia.
17:05<Turnskin>frosch123 From George's site?
17:05<frosch123>don't overwrite you old ECS vectors, if you want to continue playing with 0.6.3
17:05<+glx>from openttd content download :)
17:05<frosch123>Turnskin: you can also get them though the ingame content download
17:05<+glx>0.7.0 feature
17:06<Turnskin>O, cool
17:06<Turnskin>But i prefer do it manually... From which URL?
17:07<frosch123>take a look at grfcrawler.tt-forums.net
17:07<Turnskin>OK, i'll take a look...
17:08<Turnskin>Thanx to all.
17:08<Turnskin>Good luck!
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17:49<amixppc>hi
17:49<amixppc>trying out the new beta
17:49<@SmatZ>hello
17:49<amixppc>i try to find missing content online etc
17:49<amixppc>click on it and i get a list with red dots missing
17:50<amixppc>but i cant download them
17:50<@SmatZ>only some grfs are available online
17:50<amixppc>ohh
17:51<@SmatZ>*via the "download content" OTTD feature
17:51<@SmatZ>you can try http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ or simply google for grf's name :)
17:51<amixppc>is it possible to choose more than one grf file at time?
17:52<@SmatZ>for download? yes
17:52<@SmatZ>just check the checkbox :)
17:52<amixppc>for adding available newgrf
17:52<@SmatZ>ah... if you mean the "Add NewGRF" window, then the answer is "no"
17:54<frosch123>118 is a nice number
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17:55<@SmatZ>I wouldn't say so...
17:55<@SmatZ>@base 10 2 118
17:55<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 1110110
17:55<@SmatZ>not very nice
17:56<@SmatZ>@base 10 16 118
17:56<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 76
17:57<Wolf01>'night
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18:32<gregor__>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page <-- What about cutting this adress? Who needs /wiki/index.php in it?
18:35<@SmatZ>is that possible?
18:36<@SmatZ>even http://wikipedia.org/OpenTTD redirects to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenTTD
18:36<@SmatZ>with one 404 ...
18:38<gregor__>SmatZ, that is client-side <meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="5; URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenTTD">, it would be possible server-side through mod_rewrite/.htacces ;)
18:39<@SmatZ>gregor__: wouldn't it cause doubling of number of HTTP requests?
18:39<@SmatZ>I have no clue about that :)
18:39<@SmatZ>but why do you mind the longer address?
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18:40<gregor__>SmatZ, not notable, looks dirty
18:42<thingwath> / on wiki.openttd.org has 301 redirect to /wiki/index.php/Main_Page, so where is the problem? :)
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18:42<@Belugas>no problem in my mind
18:47<gregor__>thingwath, http://wiki.openttd.org/Oil_Refinery is shorter and better to read than http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Oil_Refinery and the first one is not a redirect to the second.
18:48<thingwath>why would anyone read such URL? :)
18:49<Brokkoli>/wiki/ should not be removed
18:49<Brokkoli>but index.php can
18:49<Brokkoli>look here
18:49<Brokkoli>http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL
18:49<DaleStan>Brokkoli: wiki's already in the url. *wiki*.openttd.org. Why have it twice?
18:50<Brokkoli>look here
18:50<Brokkoli>http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_in_site_root_directory
18:51<Brokkoli>it's possible but not good
18:51<DaleStan>That said, thingwath's right. Joe Random doesn't read URLs. Click links and (if you're lucky) search, but read?
18:52<Brokkoli>i would prefer to remove the "index.php" that's easy and unproblematic
18:53<thingwath>Joe Random. I don't. :) In fact, I don't even write them, if I wanted to get to the Oil_Refinery page now, I would go to www.openttd.org, click on Manual link and type "Oil refinery" in the search box :)
18:53<Brokkoli>me too
18:53<Brokkoli>but it looks better ;)
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18:58<Brokkoli>and google likes it more
18:59<Brokkoli>pages without a query string get a higher ranking
19:08<Eddi|zuHause><DaleStan> That said, thingwath's right. Joe Random doesn't read URLs. Click links and (if you're lucky) search, but read? <- but it would be easier to write out a "random" url and have it point to something actually existing
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19:09<Eddi|zuHause>like in a forum post where someone asks about signals, one could type wiki.openttd.org/Signals, and it would be the actual link
19:10<@SmatZ>I think Eddi has the point, but I can't do anything with that
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19:35<amixppc>can i wish for something?
19:36<amixppc>like for trams etc
19:36<@SmatZ>you may have a wish...
19:36<amixppc>would be nice if there was a button for creating one single track tramtracks
19:37<amixppc>also a button for trams togo back etc
19:37<amixppc>like in japan
19:37<amixppc>they just go to a point and go back again
19:37<amixppc>there are no loops at ends etc
19:38<Aali>just build trains
19:38<amixppc>trains are borring
19:38<amixppc>traintrams are cool
19:38<@Belugas>i fail to understand
19:38<Aali>okay, I'm looking forward to your patch :)
19:42<amixppc>hehe
19:42<amixppc>http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/kass/kassel.htm
19:42<amixppc>see
19:43<Brokkoli>u can do that
19:43<amixppc>;p
19:43<Brokkoli>trams can turn around without big loops
19:49<@Belugas>i see lots of lines.
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20:00<amixppc>Belugas: yes
20:00<amixppc>tram there goes fast
20:00<amixppc>100km/t etc
20:03<@SmatZ>100km/hour? that's amazing
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20:05<nicfer>hey, OTTD is already a city building game!
20:06<nicfer>just build the roads, put some bus stations on them and let them grow!
20:06<thingwath>for a tram, fast means that you can't outrun it.
20:06<@SmatZ>:)
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>those are hybrid trams, they count as trains (with signalling and stuff) when going that fast
20:08<thingwath>any other big differences?
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20:11<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>they don't magically morph into engine and wagons when hitting railway tracks
20:12<thingwath>well, if the difference is only the signalling
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>the difference is the whole law about operating a train line vs. operating a tram line
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>and "only" signalling includes a hell lot of stuff
20:13<thingwath>I mean technical differences
20:13<@SmatZ>our trains are allowed to go 50/60 km/h ... and the technical limit is 65 km/h iirc :)
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>like security system for checking if the driver is asleep
20:13<thingwath>even trams can use some basic signalling (Liberec - Jablonec line)
20:13<@SmatZ>*trams
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>or security systems when the driver skips a red signal
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>plus, on rail lines, the power supply is usually different from a tram line
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>tram lines typically use DC, while rail lines are either diesel or AC
20:14<@SmatZ>thingwath: reminds me of tram crash in Ostrava...
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>so there are DC/AC and DC/Diesel hybrid trams
20:15<Nite_Owl>a long tram with a rather high capacity is a good idea - no more 'subway' suggestions
20:15<@SmatZ>it's not hard to code such grf ;)
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20:16<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: that is possible to code already, but why do you think it would stop the requests for subways?
20:17<thingwath>SmatZ: http://www.zelpage.cz/zpravy/5204 ;simmilar accidents happen even with trains...
20:17<Nite_Owl>the main reason for the subway discussion is the difficulty of getting a high number of inner city passengers around to toher parts of the same city - a role usually reserved for subways
20:18*SmatZ remembers when he used "Metro Cammell DMU" as metro in TTO ;)
20:18<Nite_Owl>*other
20:18<@SmatZ>thingwath: "který si spletl dny a myslel si, že je neděle." sad :( luckily nobody died
20:19<Nite_Owl>Hiroshima Trams had a high capacity tram (450) but it was short lived
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>the tram or the tram set?
20:20<Nite_Owl>tram set
20:20<Nite_Owl>oh sorry - the tram in the set was short lived
20:21<thingwath>hm, two T3 trams in Brno have almost infinite capacity, usually :D
20:21<@SmatZ>thingwath: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDelezni%C4%8Dn%C3%AD_ne%C5%A1t%C4%9Bst%C3%AD_u_St%C3%A9blov%C3%A9 this one is more serious :(
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20:22<Nite_Owl>the next highest capacity I can remember for another tram was around 200 give or take
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20:27<@SmatZ>thingwath: :-D I fully understand that "unlimited capacity theorem"
20:27<@SmatZ>when there is a space for 200 people, adding one human more is reduces the space for every other by 0.5% ... nobody will notice that :)
20:28<thingwath>somehow, it doesn't work with 13T/14T trams.
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20:29<@SmatZ>:(
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20:31<thingwath>and of course, it won't work if the human added is drunk and stinks. :)
20:31<thingwath>which is far too common :-/
20:32<@SmatZ>:-x
20:32<Nite_Owl>what if he stinks but is not drunk
20:32<@SmatZ>yeah, half of the wagon is full of people
20:32<@SmatZ>while in the second half is only one home less person :-p
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20:33<thingwath>Nite_Owl: rare case.
20:33<Nite_Owl>or is drunk but does not stink - a clean, wholesome alcoholic
20:33<thingwath>like me.
20:33<thingwath>:o)
20:34<thingwath>but there are different rules for night buses :)
20:34<@SmatZ>:-D
20:35<@SmatZ>I wonder how those people can live
20:35<thingwath>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViN1-jQ0xo
20:35<@SmatZ>when I can't stay 1 meter from them...
20:35<@SmatZ>because of the smell
20:35<thingwath>buses and buses of drunk people! :-)
20:36<@SmatZ>:-)
20:37<@SmatZ>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XQzNNsJc-0&NR=1 I like our anthem ;) but in the version, it doesn't sund that nice :-D
20:40<thingwath>don't drink and sing :)
20:41<thingwath>and it seems, that Nad Tatrou… part is missing. :o)
20:41<@SmatZ>yeah :)
20:42<@SmatZ>I missed that part too... though it seems someone was trying to sing it :)
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20:44<@SmatZ>eeeeeeeeeej macejko... :)
20:46<@SmatZ>and SSSR anthem :-D
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20:49<thingwath>I guess it's line 93 (99 now), others are more conservative, I think :)
20:49<@SmatZ>:-D
20:49<thingwath>line 93 ends at halt "Kolejní" ;)
20:50<@SmatZ>not surprising at all ;)
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 01 00:00:22 2009