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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-01

---Logopened Sun Mar 01 00:00:22 2009
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03:25<planetmaker>morning
03:26<db48x>hello planetmaker
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04:29<el_en>h, W
04:29<Wolf01>hello
04:29-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd
04:30<Wolf01>gah, new flash10 videos are not supported by my pda... I can't see any of the new youtube videos :(
04:33<Wolf01>to grf artists: I was looking at speedpaint videos, why not make one showing how do you draw a grf?
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05:43<TSC>!password
05:43<TSC>Bah
05:43<TSC>Wrong place (:
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>where's glx when you need him?
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07:09<el_en>what's the first day of week in germany?
07:09<smeding>monntag
07:09<smeding>or montag, i forget
07:09<smeding>oh wait you mean if it's sunday or monday
07:09<smeding>heh, no clue tbhj
07:09<smeding>you shouldn't ask these things in the morning
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07:09<Eddi|zuHause>tomorrow...
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>;)
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07:12<el_en>i wonder if glibc localedata for de_DE having "first_weekday 1" is a human error.
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>why?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>1 is Monday
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>at least in crontabs
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>0 or 7 is sunday
07:13<el_en>because 1 means sunday and 2 is monday in that context, but there seems to be confusion about that.
07:14<el_en>(confusion is not surprising)
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07:16<Alberth>it would be too easy to stick to already available conventions, of course
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08:38<maristo>how can i add another town names in game? in what file are they described?
08:40<el_en>existing town name generators cannot be changed.
08:40<maristo>:(
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08:40<@Rubidium>maristo: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionF
08:41<kasper>hey there, is it possible to fund towns, just the way industry's can be funded?
08:41<maristo>is it possuble to assign new toen names by adding grf-file?
08:42<maristo>town*
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08:49<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot "extend" an existing town name generator by grf, you can only completely replace it
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08:51<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: Can I ask you (once more) to go through the German translation and make a list of strings which need improvement?
08:51<planetmaker>There are certainly things I'll miss :)
08:55<planetmaker>I went through strings ingame, especially the tool tips... but well...
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08:58<Eddi|zuHause>STR_BORDER_FREEFORM :{BLACK}beliebig <- possibly with capital letter? (all other texts around that start with a captial letter)
09:01<planetmaker>All others are a noun ;) But that doesn't really matter in this context, I guess. Yeah
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>STR_0172_SAVE_GAME_ABANDON_GAME :{BLACK}Spiel speichern, Spiel laden, Spiel verlassen, Beenden <- maybe "abbrechen" is better than "verlassen"? it is always a little confusing to me what exactly the difference between "verlassen" and "beenden" is [there must be another entry somewhere for the menu entry]
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>STR_LEAVING :{LTBLUE}verlassend <-- possibly "Abfahrt" instead?
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09:02<planetmaker>that's a good change, yes
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>STR_HEADING_FOR_TRAIN_DEPOT :{ORANGE}Unterwegs zu {TOWN} Zugdepot <- "zum Depot"? [also following: "im Depot"]
09:03<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: in that case... it is an interesting information which depot is headed to, I think
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the "zu" -> "zum"
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>"in" -> "im"
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>change
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>the rest was just my laziness ;)
09:04<Brokkoli>zu is better
09:04<planetmaker>hm... Rather: "Unterwegs zum Depot {TOWN}?
09:04<Brokkoli>noo
09:04<Brokkoli>zu
09:04<planetmaker>Unterwegs zum Bonn Zugdepot?
09:04<planetmaker>That's wrong German
09:05<planetmaker>Unterwegs zum Depot Bonn is correct
09:06<Alberth>Unterwegs zum Depot im Bonn ? (sounds better to me)
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>"in", but yes, that could work
09:07<planetmaker>sounds alright
09:07<planetmaker>but then it could also be "...zum Depot bei Bonn"
09:08<Brokkoli>as the depot itself is called "Bonn Zugdepot"
09:08<Brokkoli>it should stay as it is
09:08<Brokkoli>everything else would be confusing
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_VEHICLES_TIP :{BLACK}Anzahl an Fahrzeugen (Straßenfahrzeuge, Züge, Schiffe und Flugzeuge/Helikopter) <- "Anzahl der Fahrzeuge"? (and next string)
09:09<Brokkoli>Anzahl an Fahrzeugen is correct
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>it's not about whether it is correct, it is about whether it sounds good.
09:10<Brokkoli>it does
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}Das von dieser Firma in Anspruch genommene Darlehen <- superfluous space
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>STR_NEWGRF_SETTINGS_BUTTON_TIP :{BLACK}NewGRF Einstellungen anzeigen <- the other strings use "NewGRF-Einstellungen"
09:11<planetmaker>we should use only either "Kredit" or "Darlehen", I think
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09:12<planetmaker>as everything is "Kredit" we can stick with that, I guess
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>STR_BORDER_TYPE :{BLACK}Karten Ränder: <- ???
09:13<planetmaker>I guess not :)
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>the airport list looks a little odd, but i never use airports...
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09:14<Brokkoli>Kartenränder
09:14<Brokkoli>in one word
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>STR_DATE_TINY :{STRING}-{STRING}-{NUM} <- where does that appear? and what do the "-" mean there?
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09:17<planetmaker>I've no idea :)
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>STR_AI_SETTINGS_BUTTON :{BLACK}Einstellungen für die KI
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>STR_AI_SETTINGS_BUTTON_TIP :{BLACK}Einstellungen für KI anzeigen
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>is the "Tipp" some kind of parody on the name? :p
09:18<planetmaker>it's the iso date format
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>no, that's what the STR_DATE_ISO is for
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>(it reverses the order)
09:18<planetmaker>src/strings.cpp: buff = FormatTinyOrISODate(buff, GetInt32(&argv), STR_DATE_TINY, last);
09:18<planetmaker>^^only occurance in the code
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09:19<+glx>[15:16:19] <Eddi|zuHause> STR_DATE_TINY :{STRING}-{STRING}-{NUM} <- where does that appear? and what do the "-" mean there? <-- savegame name
09:20<planetmaker>:) ty. So we shouldn't change it, I think
09:21<@Rubidium>planetmaker: unless you want 20022002 to appear as date
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>glx: is that a setting somewhere? my games always used the long date format
09:21<planetmaker>:) No, I just want to sprinkle in a few Umlauts: ä Ö ß
09:21<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: advanced settings... ui I think
09:21<planetmaker>iso, long, and something else I forgot
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>but still, why the "-"? i am still not sure what appears in that "tiny" date, but "." seems to be more appropriate
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09:23<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: filename like blubber Transports 2008-02-13.sav
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's the iso format
09:24<planetmaker>uh... no, please no . in filenames.
09:24<planetmaker>at least in places where it doesn't belong
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>2008-02-13 is a valid date format, but 13-02-2008 is not
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>and the "long" format had "." in it for ages
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONTENT_NO_ZLIB_SUB :{WHITE}... herunterladen von Inhalten nicht möglich! <- missed an "Erweiterungen" change
09:26<planetmaker>true and fair enough.
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONTENT_NAME_CAPTION_TIP :{BLACK}Name des Inhaltes <- here, too
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>actually, plenty more of those
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONTENT_FILTER_TITLE :{BLACK}Tag/name filter: <- 3 words, and so many mistakes in it...
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i can't even look at this part of the file...
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>it makes me really depressed...
09:29<@SmatZ>is this from german.txt?
09:29<planetmaker>STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_TITLE <-- dafür brauche ich 'mal 'nen guten Vorschlag
09:29<planetmaker>SmatZ: yeah
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONTENT_DOWNLOAD_INITIALISE :{WHITE}Dateien anfordernd... <- grrrr...
09:29<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: there are several instances with "Inhalt" still. Replacing them
09:29<@SmatZ>sometimes it happens english original is used in translation... I don't know why though :)
09:30<@SmatZ>most likely translator's fault
09:30<planetmaker>better than "{SILVER}Erweiterungs-Info" needed :)
09:30<planetmaker>SmatZ: if a string is missing in translation
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>"Beschreibung"?
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>"Beschreibung der Erweiterung"?
09:31<planetmaker>I think it's a button. So we don't have huge space
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>when i look at the window, there should be plenty of space
09:32<planetmaker>k
09:32-!-Firzen [~chatzilla@dslb-088-069-209-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
09:33<Firzen>Hi. May anyone help me getting my dedicated Linux Server work?
09:33<planetmaker>oh, there. Yes. much space
09:33<planetmaker>Beschreibung der Erweiterung it is then.
09:34<Firzen>It says openttd: error while loading shared libraries when I try to run it.
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>Feature request: a difference in icon for things i do not have and things i have older versions of (in the content download window)
09:35<planetmaker>Firzen: that's a problem. You're missing some library. Find out which and install it
09:35<@SmatZ>Firzen: or compile ottd yourself
09:35<planetmaker>^^or that :)
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>another feature request: URLs in the description need some kind of word-wrapping on non-space-characters (e.g. "/", "&", "?")
09:37<planetmaker>also content window: Replace "Sie haben dies noch nicht zum Herunterladen ausgewählt" by "Diese ist noch nicht zum Herunterladen ausgewählt"?
09:38<Firzen>It says: libSDL-1.2.so.0
09:38<Firzen>I use debian
09:38<@SmatZ>hmm why does dedicated server need libsdl
09:39<planetmaker>Firzen: that's only used, for the GUI. If you compile yourself with --enable-dedicated you don't need it
09:39<planetmaker>SmatZ: downloads are non-dedicated afaik
09:39<@Rubidium>SmatZ: because he didn't compile a dedicated server
09:39<@SmatZ>planetmaker: Rubidium: yeah :)
09:39<Firzen>I don't know how to do that <.< I'm not used to Linux.
09:40<Firzen>Proud that I'm able to login. xD
09:40<@SmatZ>Firzen: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Compiling_on_Linux
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09:41<@SmatZ>but you can try without SDL libs when you want to run dedicated :)
09:42<planetmaker>hm... what's better: "Gesamtgröße des Downloads" or "Gesamtgröße der Downloads"?
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: it is probably easier to just install SDL on the server
09:42<Alberth>SmatZ: that only works for a build of a dedicated server, not for his current binary
09:42<@SmatZ>hehe :)
09:42<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: I think so, too ^^
09:42<@SmatZ>Alberth: yeah
09:43<@SmatZ>planetmaker: can't you use something with 'von'? :)
09:44<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: You know where I can get the library?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>in whatever packet manager your system uses
09:44<pound_fool>Well, it's Debian, right? So "apt"
09:44<planetmaker>SmatZ: in this context it doesn't really fit IMO. One could say "Gesamtgröße vom Download", but ...
09:44<Alberth>Firzen: probably something with apt-get, see also Wiki page
09:44<pound_fool>try "man apt-get"
09:45<pound_fool>(to bring up the manual page)
09:45<planetmaker>"...des Downloads" or "...der Downloads" is 'better' German :)
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>out of the blue i'd say "apt-get install libsdl"
09:45<@SmatZ>planetmaker: ok :-)
09:45<planetmaker>it's just a question is it one download or several :)
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i can't really decide... i think "des" is fine
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>or try "Downloadgesamtgröße" :p
09:47<Firzen>"Gesamtgröße der Downloads" sounds best
09:47<@SmatZ>english.txt use "Total download size", not "Total downloads size" or so :)
09:47<Firzen>Though... depends on how many files are downloaded
09:48<Firzen>Always one or more=
09:48<Firzen>?
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i think it's not a noun in the english version ;)
09:49<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: :o) I admire I failed to parse that sentence gramatically
09:50<Firzen>Any way to find out Linux distributen the root uses? I have doubts that it's debian as it doesn't now apt and apt-get
09:50<Firzen>distribution*
09:50<Alberth>Hmm, could it be that the vehicle list code is not handling rtl languages? http://f.imagehost.org/0816/vehiclelist_rtl.png :D
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>maybe something completely different: "Zum herunterladen ausgewählt:"
09:51<Alberth>Firzen: I hope the same as his users
09:51<FauxFaux>Heh.
09:51<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: where you want that?
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>instead of "Gesamtgröße"
09:51<planetmaker>instead of "Gesamtgröße des Downloads"? Hm...
09:51<Alberth>Firzen: not in a robust way, different distributions have different ideas about how to do that
09:51<Alberth>Firzen: do you have 'yum' ?
09:52<Firzen>Alberth: I don't know what yum is so... I think no.
09:52<planetmaker>But it would avoid "Download" - which isn't used elsewhere and not a 'proper' German word :)
09:52<planetmaker>well... it is used. In the description
09:52<Alberth>Firzen: type 'yum help'. You should get a page of help text
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09:52<Firzen>We use "Download" in proper German language.
09:52<planetmaker>btw. What do you think of "Schlagworte" for 'tags'?
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just not entirely sure if it is a "nounified" verb here, and thus would be written with captital letter
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09:53<planetmaker>Firzen: yeah. I think "Gesamtgröße der Downloads" is okay...
09:53<Firzen>planetmaker: It is.
09:54<Firzen>"Zum herunterladen ausgewählt:" means chosen for download
09:54<Firzen>yum help doesn't work. Unknown command.
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: does the server have some kind of admin that you could ask?
09:55<Ammler>[15:52] <planetmaker> btw. What do you think of "Schlagworte" for 'tags'? <-- aren't those Stichwörter?
09:56<pound_fool>So I'm new to this and trying to get my GRFs set up. Do I need to pass any specific parameters to the #openttdcoop 7.3 grf package?
09:56<Alberth>Firzen: 'locate apt-get' may give you a location of the program
09:56<planetmaker>Could also be used. I just queried dict.cc for a proper translation of "Tags" :)
09:56<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: Admin yes, ask no. He has less knowledge of Linux than me.
09:56<planetmaker>s/Admin/Ammler/ :D
09:56<pound_fool>I'm trying to find if there's info about this on the wiki, but haven't yet.
09:56<planetmaker>nvm
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09:57<Firzen>"locate: /var/lib/locatedb: file or directory not found"
09:57<planetmaker>but "Stichworte" probably is better and more widely used. "Schlagworte" is kind dying out :)
09:57<Alberth>frsh install eh ?
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: but he must have some kind of knowledge of what was written on the install CD
09:57<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: It's a strato root server.
09:57<Alberth>s/frsh/fresh/
09:57<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: He didn't install anything.
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>so, does strato have a website which explains how to install stuff?
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09:58<Firzen>Eddi|zuHause: Maybe. I'll see.
09:59<Alberth>Firzen: try 'ls /sbin/apt*' or 'ls /usr/sbin/apt*' (you may not have sbin in your path)
10:00<@SmatZ>Alberth: as a regular user, he probably doesn't
10:00<@SmatZ>arrr....
10:00<@SmatZ>you just wrote that
10:00<@SmatZ>shame on me
10:00*SmatZ out
10:01<Firzen>file or directory not found
10:01<Firzen>in both cases
10:01<@Rubidium>Firzen: are you 'root'?
10:01<Firzen>yes
10:01<@Rubidium>what does whoami give?
10:02<Firzen>root
10:02<@Rubidium>and there's no apt?
10:02<Firzen>seems so
10:03<el_en>Firzen: cat /etc/redhat-release
10:03<@Rubidium>is there dpkg and (curl or wget or lynx or links)?
10:03<Firzen>not found
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>is there "rpm"?
10:04<Firzen>Well, I searched now for man, info and help about apt and also apt itself, it seems to be totally unknown
10:04<Firzen>Yes,, there is RPM 4.4.2
10:05<@Rubidium>so it isn't a debian-alike one
10:05<el_en>is it even a linux?
10:05<Firzen>Yes.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>it could be suse, then it would have "yast"
10:06<Firzen>It has yast
10:06*Rubidium wonders why he only say debian in the backlog
10:06<Firzen>Admin said me debian
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>fine, then use yast ;)
10:06<Firzen>k.
10:06<Firzen>How? :D
10:06<Alberth>Firzen: man yast
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>it should have a mildly descriptive menu ;)
10:07<Firzen>yeah.
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>if you find the menu confusing, you could also try to use "zypper"
10:08<Firzen>So I shall install the missing lib now with yast?
10:08-!-Sebihunter [~sebihunte@84.113.64.42] has joined #openttd
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, yast should be able to install sdl
10:09<+glx>and slap admin :)
10:09<Firzen>Yes. xD
10:10<Firzen>Thanks for finding out my Linux distribution. >.<
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10:15<Firzen>I think it crashed ._.
10:21<Alberth>Firzen: many tools do not have progress bars or so, they simply return the prompt when done, and say nothing while they do their work.
10:22<Firzen>But Initialization of the Software Installer needs more than 5 Minutes?
10:22<Alberth>Firzen: you have another terminal? then run 'top' in that one, to see what the system is spending its CPU time on
10:23<Alberth>('q' to quit top :) )
10:24<Alberth>Firzen: May depend on how slow your network is. Can you see network activity?
10:24<Alberth>(LEDS on your modem/router eg)
10:25<Firzen>It's 2MB/s
10:25<Alberth>Firzen: another possibility is that it detected an ancient system, and is now busy updating to the current versions
10:25<Firzen>It spends about 62% CPU on y2base
10:26<Alberth>Fedora does something like 10MB+/week updates, so after a 'fresh' CD install, I needed to install 200MB+ updates first
10:27<Firzen>k I'll let it initialize ^^
10:27<Firzen>See what happens after 10-30 Minutes
10:27<Alberth>Firzen: no idea what y2base is.
10:28-!-Sacro_ [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:28<Alberth>Firzen: Google thinks: “command line version” of YaST is called y2base
10:28<Alberth>so it's busy :)
10:29<Firzen>k
10:29<Firzen>I'll go take a shower now, then return and tell if soemething happened. :D
10:30<Firzen>And if there is another uncertainness of some german translation you may ask me - I'm german ^^
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>y2base is a module of yast
10:33<+glx>Firzen: germans are already talking about that ;)
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10:35<Alberth>Apparently, TB changed his mind about the foreign language to speak today :)
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>wtf are you talking about?
10:37<Alberth>Last week, he spoke about everybody having to speak a foreign language here, swedish I believe
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10:58<Firzen>It's ready :D
10:58<Alberth>Rubidium: does resizing any chance of working atm (ie with the resize box at the left, and resizing to the left/bottom?)
10:59<Alberth>Firzen: so now you have a long list of updates to apply?
10:59<Alberth>Rubidium: euh in a rtl context
10:59<Firzen>9 entries
11:00<@Rubidium>Alberth: no idea; I guess that needs
11:00<Alberth>Firzen: hmm, so it did some db building most likely the first time
11:00<@Rubidium>Alberth: no idea; I guess that needs 'hacks'
11:00<Firzen>But there is a Search function
11:02<Firzen>Will I have to search for libSDL-1.2.so.0 or only for SDL?
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>searching for sdl should suffice
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>you can search for "libSDL-1.2.so.0" if you check the "search in 'provides'" field
11:04<Alberth>Rubidium: am busy building a widget array generator, where it is easy to swap left and right. (diff is 41000 bytes). In 'normal' mode, I get the original widget array exactly, in swapped mode, it runs, but window updates make a lot of mess.
11:04<Alberth>Firzen: if you want to build from source, you most likely also need some sdl-development package
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: we decided that he does not want to build from source ;)
11:05<Alberth>We should also decide that he should run OpenTTD server as root ;)
11:05<Alberth>+not (of course)
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11:11<@Rubidium>Alberth: you mean that many window update refresh the wrong part of the window or so? Or is it the resizing that doesn't work quite yet?
11:13<+glx>Alberth: be sure your generator generates widgets using the right index
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11:28<el_en>Alberth: running openttd as root is recommended.
11:28<Alberth>el_en: sure, getting hacked is also recommended, isn't it?
11:29<el_en>yes, it is.
11:30<Alberth>el_en: normal deamons don't even run as root, why would OpenTTD need root?
11:30<+glx>I think we shoud introduce a backdoor in openttd :)
11:31<el_en>Alberth: running as root avoids all sorts of nasty errors about missing permissions, etc.
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11:32<Alberth>el_en: those permissions exist to protect you from yourself.
11:32<el_en>Alberth: I once wrote a patch which would have made OTTD show an error message and exit if run as root. The patch was rejected.
11:32<el_en>Alberth: Conclusion: Running as root is recommended by the developers.
11:35<el_en>I also wrote a patch which would have shown an error message if _not_ run as root. It was rejected too.
11:36<@petern>ah, el_en-logic
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11:40<Alberth>well, it confirms that you should run OpenTTD as 'nobody' :D
11:41<Alberth>Rubidium: glx: http://f.imagehost.org/0423/newshistory_swapped.png
11:41<Alberth>top one is shot directly after opening, second one after trying to resize
11:42<+glx>check the resizing code
11:42<Alberth>glx: index numbers are completely seperate from positions etc, so those are good
11:42<@Rubidium>the resizing assumes it goes the other way I reckon, so it keeps the original location, calculated the new size and marks the window dirty from the old 'base' location
11:42<Alberth>glx: I will, but I would not be surprised if this case is not handled properly
11:43<Alberth>At least we need a new resize-box sprite :)
11:43<@Rubidium>that's a minor detail I'd say ;)
11:45<Alberth>I'd even consider rtl languages something of the future for now. Let's first get rid of those widget arrays
11:46<@Rubidium>well, RTL languages are actually used
11:46<+glx>Alberth: StartWindowSizing() is probably whay you need to modify
11:46<+glx>*what
11:47<+glx>,..._drag_delta.x = _cursor.pos.x;
11:47<+glx>,..._drag_delta.y = _cursor.pos.y;
11:47<+glx>^^ these lines I think
11:48<+glx>or it is in HandleWindowDragging()
11:48<+glx>around line 1490
11:48<Alberth>I think it is great to make OpenTTD rtl aware. However, even with something simple like the news history, the news lines get printed at the wrong place, since the drawing code didn't take into accout that the panel widget may be moved.
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11:48<Alberth>There are probably a lot of those things in the code.
11:49<+glx>most windows use hardcoded text offsets
11:49<Alberth>glx: tnx, I'll have a look later this week or so
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11:52<kasper>hmmz... :)
11:52<Alberth>glx, Rubidium: I'll make a small doc, then ask you to have a look
11:52<kasper>is there an easy to access parameter that sets the station influence area?
11:53<+glx>it's in the source
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11:53<kasper>so it cant be changd?
11:53<kasper>well, not in a few clicks
11:54<@Rubidium>Alberth: yes, the text drawing can be a problem, but I've got some ideas for that too (basically handle the location swapping in the drawstring stuff)
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11:55<Alberth>I'd consider that a minor detail for now ;)
11:55<+glx>yeah first step is working windows :)
11:56<+glx>horizontal scrollbar will be fun too ;)
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12:13<@petern>hardcoded pixel offsets is something i've been replacing as and when, heh
12:13<@petern>but
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12:18<batti5>can somebody please fix my nfo here http://paste.openttd.org/179990 , i tried everyway with no succes.
12:18<batti5>?
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12:19<Firzen>Well, let's go on trying to get this f****** dedicated server work :D
12:19<Forked>ok I might ahve messed this up somewhat. But in 1995 with "vehicles never expires" turned off and using DB Set v0.82 (XL).. are no wagons to transport steel?
12:20<frosch123>batti5: you specified two action 8, and you specified that 8 real sprites follow the action 1, it is up to you to learn how to fix those basic things
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>Forked: wagonspeedlimits off?
12:21<Forked>Eddi|zuHause: yes
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's a bug in the DBSet
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>the new "faster" wagons do not appear, but the old ones are still set to disappear
12:22<Forked>oh meh
12:22<Forked>and I can't change that in a game thats already running
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>which was no problem, as long as openttd ignored the wagon lifetime :p
12:22<frosch123>likely because "wagons can expire" was added later :)
12:24<Forked>and no way to change that setting using rcon or anything in a game thats already running? :\ GUI has grayed out the option
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>turn on "vehicles never expire", and do "resetengines"
12:24<frosch123>you should be able to load the game in single player, change the setting and do resetengines
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12:26<Firzen>I downloaded the lib at http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/3/srodzaj/1/search/libSDL-1.2.so.0()(64bit) and installed it but it still says "./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: libSDL-1.2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>did installing through yast not work?
12:28<Firzen>I didn't find it. So I thought before I waste hours searching in yast for it I ask Google.
12:29<Firzen>Installed it with "yast -i SDL-1.2.9-19.5.x86_64.rpm" then.
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12:32<Eddi|zuHause>http://paste.openttd.org/179991 <- this is when i search for "sdl" with zypper, it should be really easy to install
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12:32<Glade>hi?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>so simply typing "zypper install sdl" should work
12:33<Ammler>Firzen: if you look for suse packages, try http://packages.opensuse-community.org/
12:34<Ammler>but you should be fine with repos oss non-oss update and packman
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>"yast -i sdl" should work as well
12:35<Ammler>(if you have the repos ;-)
12:35<Firzen>"zypper info sdl" returns "package not found" for me
12:35<Ammler>nopaste "zypper lr"
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>then try "zypper search sdl"
12:35<Firzen>Trying "yasi -i sdl" atm
12:36<welshdragon>riight
12:36<welshdragon>i need help
12:36<Firzen>This server needs lots of time for reading cache...
12:36<Ammler>Firzen: yast uses the same repos then zypper
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, zypper and yast use the same database, so if one fails, the other one should fail, too
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12:36<welshdragon>i have 2 companies that were in a multiplayer game, the first company is now dead, any way of resetting it?
12:36<Firzen>But why do you find it but I don't?
12:37<Firzen>I thought this would be some kind of online database.
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>because maybe your repositories are not set up for the general opensuse repository, but some locally hosted repository that is missing some packages?
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>like ammler said, type in "zypper lr"
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12:38<Firzen>I get a table.
12:38<Ammler>paste.openttd.org
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>paste the table on paste.openttd.org
12:38<Ammler>:-)
12:39<Ammler>sorry
12:40<Firzen>http://paste.openttd.org/179993
12:40<Firzen>I'm sorry this is in german
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12:41<batti5>at the first sprite how i can declare 4 sprites, if i type 04 renum protests Error (51): Unexpected real sprite found., why?
12:41<batti5>?
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>i can't find a zypper command that lists the repository details...
12:44<Firzen>So? What should I do? :o
12:44-!-Mark [~markk@shell.etttretresju.net] has joined #openttd
12:45<batti5>what should i try to 4 sprites?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say add http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/ as repository
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>yast -> repository management
12:45-!-Glade [~Ferekanet@nrbg-4dbe0633.pool.einsundeins.de] has left #openttd []
12:46<batti5>#0: define how many sprites are in the file (13 decimal=0D) why not 04 = 4?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>or first, give us the url that your "SUSE-Linux-10.3-OSS" repository is set to
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12:48<Firzen>too late, added it already ;)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>tell us anyway ;)
12:48<Firzen>ftp://ftp.stratoserver.net/pub/linux/opensuse/distribution/10.3
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/SDL-1.2.12-26.x86_64.rpm <- the file is definitely there
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: that url gives me a "no connection" error ;)
12:49<Firzen>lol
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>well, i presume that's internal only
12:50<Firzen>So strato seems to not take care of their customers
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>i presume they stripped the graphical stuff off their server repos
12:51<Firzen>Should i use now the yast search or enter uri directly or what?
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>which a headless server is supposed to not need
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: when yast is done adding the repository searching should work
12:51<Firzen>Ok.
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12:58<Firzen>lol still not findable
12:58<Ammler>Firzen: http://packman.links2linux.de/install/openttd
12:59<Firzen>Ammler: It's a yml-file. What's it for?
12:59<Ammler>it adds the needed repos and installs openttd for you
12:59<Ammler>1-click-install
13:00<Firzen>Just run it on the linux server?
13:00<Ammler>why do you want to install sdl on a server?
13:00<Firzen>Because OpenTTD says it cannot be found.
13:00<Ammler>install a dedicated version
13:01<Ammler>which version do you want?
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13:01<Firzen>stable
13:01<Firzen>0.6.3
13:01<Ammler>well, are you sure?
13:02<Firzen>No.
13:02<@Rubidium>can I have r15594M ?
13:02<Firzen>Beta doesn't sound good. You recommend me a newer than 0.6.3?
13:02<Ammler>nightlies should have dedicated versions
13:03<@Rubidium>Ammler: they don't
13:03-!-Roujin [~chatzilla@p54970814.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
13:03<Roujin>greetings
13:03<Ammler>oh, so he didn't add them :-(
13:03<@Rubidium>unless TB sneaked that in very lately
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>Firzen: did you actually "enable" the repository?
13:04<Roujin>sorry for not being available since last week, but now finally exam time is over :)
13:04<Ammler>installing sdl just for openttd is quite silly.
13:04<Firzen>Well let's decide what I do <.<
13:04<@Rubidium>exams on sunday?
13:04<Firzen>What shall I do with this yml?
13:05<Roujin>I've done the requested changes to the waypoint counter patch Belugas posted in the flyspray task - will upload it in a moment..
13:05<Ammler>it is for desktops, don't know if you can run it from console.
13:06<Firzen>Oh it's ymp xD
13:11<Firzen>Argh I die x_X
13:12<Ammler>openttd devs assume that evey admin should be alble to compile openttd self ;-)
13:13<Firzen>Yeah but not a Linux noob like me.
13:17<Ammler>zypper ar http://packman.iu-bremen.de/suse/10.3 && zypper in openttd
13:17<batti5>//!!Fatal Error (44): Invalid feature byte.
13:17<batti5> 8 * 6 02 18 06 04 04 00
13:17<batti5>???
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13:17<Roujin>I have a question regarding savegame version conditional variables: what happens if a version prior to their introduction is loaded? Are they initialized to zero?
13:18<Roujin>Do I have to manually care for them in the loading code?
13:19<@Rubidium>stuff on the map might not be 0, stuff in the structs will be 0
13:19<@Rubidium>unless it's the settings code, where it'll will have the default value
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>so if it
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>is a setting, you can leave it on the defaults, or handle it specifically
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13:20<Roujin>ok thanks
13:21<Roujin>it's in a struct
13:22<Roujin>and zero is perfectly fine in this case
13:22<Roujin>better than random, at least ^^
13:24<@Rubidium>hmm, actually... I tink it's what the default constructor sets it to, but that's something you need to test as I'm not sure of that
13:25<@Rubidium>and when the constructor doesn't set it, it'll be 0
13:25<Roujin>okay, will run a quick test..
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13:30<Roujin>according to test, it's set to zero...
13:30<Firzen>Why don't I get this ded server working? :(
13:31<Sacro>surely it won't work
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>if you "think" something is always true, insert an assert ;)
13:32<Sacro>if you initialise them to zero then you handle them
13:32<Sacro>oh right you mean updating the savegame's vesion
13:32<Sacro>increasing it
13:32*Sacro stops talking now
13:34<batti5>//!!Warning (42): Length does not match n-id and num-cid of 01 and 00. (Expected 7 bytes)
13:34<batti5> 9 * 59 03 00 01 01 00 00 00
13:35<batti5>what this means?
13:35<Roujin>okay, uploaded the new version to flyspray
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15595 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-01 18:35:59
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 39 changed by planetmaker (39)
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: icelandic - 80 fixed by scrooge (80)
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 116 fixed by Devastator (116)
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: persian - 219 fixed by ali sattari (219)
13:39<Roujin>+STR_DEPOT_VEHICLE_ORDER_LIST_SHIP_TIP :{BLACK}All Schiffe, die diese Werft anfahren, auflisten <--- we have space ships in OpenTTD? ^^
13:39<Roujin>"All Schiffe"
13:40<frosch123>yeah, the translation sucks, the proper name is "Raumschiffe" :p
13:40<@Rubidium>Roujin: yes we have space ships
13:41<Roujin>*runs away before planetmaker comes and hits me* ^^
13:41<planetmaker>:)
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13:44<planetmaker>changed
13:45<@Rubidium>too late ;)
13:45-!-amixppc [~Michal@062016234094.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd
13:45<@Rubidium>:O powerpc
13:45<@Rubidium>running OSX 10.3.9?
13:45<amixppc>no
13:46<amixppc>MorphOS
13:47<@Rubidium>have they already switched to a more recent GCC?
13:47<amixppc>hmm, maybe a Aminet alike thing for OpenTTD would be great?
13:47<amixppc>like www.aminet.net
13:48<amixppc>thinking of it when seeing Check online content thing in 0.7.0 beta
13:48<@Rubidium>well... we used to build morphos binaries once
13:48<+glx>batti5: you really need to read nfo docs
13:49<el_en>wtf is this MorphOS thing anyway?
13:49<amixppc>Rubidium: i know. but tokai doesnt have time to do the ports before April
13:49<amixppc>el_en: www.morphos-team.net
13:49<amixppc>PPC based AmigaOS
13:50<el_en>nice. at least the PPC part.
13:50*Rubidium still would like some way to virtualise/emulate morpos on a x86 machine so we can actually build the binaries ourselves instead of relying on others
13:51<amixppc>most morphos people hates x86 :)
13:51<@Rubidium>that's fine by me ;)
13:51<@Rubidium>as long as there is ONE that makes sure it runs in e.g. pearpc
13:52*el_en owns about four or five PPC processors
13:53*frosch123 owns about 10 atmega processors
13:53<frosch123>:p
13:53*Eddi|zuHause does not remember owning any non-x86-processor-based PC
13:54<thingwath>neither do I, what is it good for?
13:54<amixppc>http://amitopiatv.com/pics/morphos.png
13:55-!-Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:55<amixppc>thats morphos
13:55<@Rubidium>thingwath: proprietary stuff
13:55<thingwath>ah. so I don't miss anything :)
13:56<thingwath>(we have one old IRIX at school, as a server for students, it's such a crap)
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>not everything that you are not able to handle is automatically crap
13:57<thingwath>:)
13:59<thingwath>it's good for C/C++ courses, students are expected to compile their stuff there, so they see there is not only linux/glibc
14:00<@Rubidium>yup, there's also apple/incompatible, unix/libc, windows/nonstandardstandard, etc. ;)
14:00<thingwath>even though we use gcc on it
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14:05<DaleStan><batti5> at the first sprite how i can declare 4 sprites, if i type 04 renum protests, why? <-- That depends entirely on where you put the 04. As for the rest of it, there's a nice file with a paragraph or more on each error message, the causes, and the solutions. Try reading it.
14:06<DaleStan>Failing that, if an offset is specified, find what you think is the offending byte, and change it to something else. Repeat until you find the offending byte. (You'll know because the error message changed/disappeared.) That should provide clue as to why that byte is wrong.
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14:11<amixppc>the openttd gui is such a copy of amigaos v2.05
14:11<amixppc>fun to know
14:11<amixppc>;p
14:13<Sacro>amigaos?
14:14<amixppc>yes
14:14<Sacro>Ahh Workbench
14:14<amixppc>Workbenc v2.05
14:14<amixppc>a bit lighter
14:14<amixppc>grey tone
14:14<amixppc>as default
14:14-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F12F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:14<Sacro><3 1.3
14:16<Eddi|zuHause># dîr cuiol ú-'ar nin degi!
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14:20<el_en>Q'apla!
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>wrong language :p
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14:23<Eddi|zuHause>is the drink called "Spezi" known outside of germany? (mix of Fanta and Coke)
14:25<el_en>never heard of it, even inside germany.
14:25<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: at least in autria
14:25<Ammler>but not well known here (CH)
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14:26<Ammler>I thought, it is a mix of coke and sinalco
14:26<Ammler>;-)
14:27<el_en>is it any similar to Mezzo Mix?
14:27<el_en>or hmm, it even is.
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>el_en: well, yes, i believe they produced mezzo mix after the drink became popular ;)
14:29<Ammler>afaik, you can't buy it in bottles
14:29<Ammler>you have to mix self
14:30-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B83F63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30<el_en>"Most large beverage manufacturers sell similar products, though most of them only in Germany. Examples are Schwip Schwap by PepsiCo or Mezzo Mix by the Coca-Cola Company. Nowadays, these two competitors sell far better than the original Spezi. However, original Spezi, in contrast to is main competitors, is not available in some parts of Germany, particularly in large parts of former East Germany"
14:32<el_en>actually, Lidl is selling something spezish even in Finland.
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15:04<Roujin>Flyspray just gave me "Warning: Unknown: write failed: No space left on device (28) in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (/var/lib/php5) in Unknown on line 0 "
15:04<frosch123>yeah, it fails also for me
15:06<frosch123>so I post it here. Roujin: "+ this->wp->traffic_highest = this->wp->traffic_this_month;" won't work in multiplayer. It only sets the value on a singleclient, and as it stored in savegame elsewise, that is generally a bad idea
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15:07<Roujin>haha, yes, of course
15:08<Roujin>what a silly mistake
15:08<Roujin>changing game state'ish stuff in gui code..
15:10<Roujin>needs a command, plus disabling the button for non-owners of the waypoint, plus checking in the command that it's the owner of the waypoint who wants to reset it
15:10<Roujin>or, removing the "reset" button again :P meh...
15:10<frosch123>that's the price for storing it in the save :)
15:11<@petern>needs a save?
15:11<@petern>er
15:11<@petern>needs a command?
15:11<@petern>i suppose if you have a button to reset it or something
15:11<@petern>i've not looked :p
15:12<Roujin>yeah, that's it. but I already stated the same some lines above you :P
15:12<@petern>i was reading downwards
15:13<frosch123>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2620 <- running again :)
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15:33<Thor>hello, is there someone online?
15:33<@Rubidium>no
15:33<@Rubidium>;)
15:33<Thor>phew, i was lucky then :D
15:33<@Rubidium>@seen someone
15:33<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 41 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
15:34<@Rubidium>see, he isn't online
15:34<Thor>lol
15:34<Thor>i neither knew such a command existed...
15:34<Thor>uhm am i mistaking or you are one of the coders ?
15:35<Thor>(i'm quite a newbie here ... )
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15:37<+glx>if you have a question, just ask :)
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes. you are either mistaken or he is a coder.
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>most likely both, though :)
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15:38<Thor>oh well, nobody's perfect i suppose,so being wrong is right :D
15:39<Thor>is there a source of documentations for vectors?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>what vectors?
15:39<Thor>i have chemicals factories that do not give me money when i give them refined stuff, so i'd like to know if it's me making something wrong or a bug
15:39<Thor>err..chemical i think
15:39<Thor>the one with the factory wich sells dies
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>oh, you mean ECS Vectors, we have nothing to do with those
15:40<Thor>oh
15:40<Roujin>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSVectors <-- seen this wiki?
15:41<Thor>no, never.. thank you, i'll look immediatly
15:41*Roujin thought about c++ vectors, not ECS Vectors first, heh..
15:41<Thor>lol
15:41<Thor>nope =P
15:43<Thor>talking about pointers is too dangerous after dusk...
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>you don't talk about pointers, you have them.
15:47<Thor>there is nothing about the chemical vector in that wiki ._.
15:48<Roujin>is it not this one? http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSChemicalVector
15:49<Thor>yes, but it's not talking about the plant that does not pay me
15:49<Thor>i bring them stuff and they don't pay me -.- that's no good for business
15:50<Roujin>did you change (add) grfs during the game?
15:50<Brokkoli>maybe the stock is full?
15:51<Thor>no,it was a new game with a recent nightly (so no beta7) / no ,it was a new route to a previously not connected plant
15:51<Thor>(i found a thread on the forums i'll post there too...)
15:51<Roujin>what revision of OpenTTD exactly?
15:51<Thor>r15591
15:52<Roujin>there was a bug recently iirc that messed up payment..
15:52<Thor>:/
15:52<Roujin>hm, no.. r15591 is after the fix for the bug I mentioned
15:53<Thor>ç_ç
15:53<Roujin>okay, another guess: do you have another industry set in addition to ECS?
15:53<Thor>uhm...only a second,i check
15:54-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc28d.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:54<Thor>in the right order: ecs town, ecs basic, ecs agricult, ecs chemic,planeset 459,old wagons new cargos 1.1 , egrvts
15:55<Thor>so no, no other sets..
15:56<Thor>wow, another one had exactly the same problem as mine
15:58<Roujin>hmm, if you don't find a solution there, you should post your problem there, with a savegame attached. George may be able to help you..
15:59<Thor>i guess i can only wait...the one with the same problem still doesn't have an answer..
15:59<Thor>i guess i'll change the vector meantime
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16:23<energetic>Some players found a really creative way to 'cheat' on other companies - by stationwalking from the town where a sttaue is bought to the loading place.
16:23<energetic>Any creative ideas against it?
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes, reduce station spread
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>12 should be enough for most purposes
16:25<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: difficult, if you play with TL 15 :)
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>or 5 if you want to be cruel ;)
16:25<planetmaker>:P
16:25<@Bjarni>2!
16:25<planetmaker>4 is minimum ... or?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think 4 was the limit
16:26<@Bjarni>I can't remember
16:26<@Bjarni>but 2 would be.... interesting
16:26<@Bjarni>and not a game for me
16:26<@Bjarni>it would likely be CPU friendly though
16:26<el_en>captain on deck!
16:26<@Rubidium>station spread 1 with only ships and aircraft ;)
16:26<@Bjarni>HIT THE DECK!
16:26<planetmaker>:D
16:27<planetmaker>On a map 8 x 1024 tiles
16:27<@Bjarni>just ships only on that map size would also be interesting
16:27<Aali>station spread 1 with trains only would be "interesting"
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can build heliports, but have no hangars ;)
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>with proper newgrfs you can get 4 wagons on 1 tile
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16:29<Eddi|zuHause>or even 5
16:33<el_en>Bjarni: Have you ever built glib on Mac?
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>bahh.... i totally hate that "delete" button on the newgrf window, i always hit it when i want to hit "remove" instead
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>can we have a confirmation window there, please?
16:36<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: use better newgrf gui ;-)
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: get that into trunk then
16:36-!-energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: energetic]
16:37<Ammler>the patch is up2date
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16:38<@Bjarni><el_en> Bjarni: Have you ever built glib on Mac? <--- actually I'm not sure. I built so many things
16:38<@Bjarni>why?
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: that does not suffice
16:39-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5D21B.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>and can we _please_ split terraforming basecosts from foundation base costs?
16:41<el_en>Bjarni: it's quite painful to build an use if it needs to be Universal... as for the why part, i'm interested to hear any tips.
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16:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15596 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Change: road vehicles can stop at stops when they own the stop, not when they own the road/tram track.
16:50<el_en>and before Rubidium says anything, glib in general is painful to cross-compile.
16:57<@Bjarni>el_en: then build it natively only and then build it for the other CPU afterwards. Last step would then be to glue the results together into universal files
16:58<Wolf01>'night
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16:59<@Bjarni>say you work on an intel x86, then you make the PPC part by typing “CFLAGS="-arch ppc" LDFLAGS="-arch ppc" ./configure“
16:59<@Bjarni>it's quite simple and works at least half of the time
17:00-!-Thor [~Thor@adsl-ull-144-55.48-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
17:00<@Bjarni>if you are on 10.4 PPC, then you will need to add the path to the universal SDK to compile for x86 too
17:01<Mark>I'm looking for a tread in tt-forums that had a guide to how to make a heightmap, can't find it now though, anyone know where it is?
17:01<@Rubidium>general sticky?
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17:01<Mark>Oh, fund it :D
17:02<@Bjarni>you funded it?
17:02<Mark>found*
17:02<@Bjarni>sounds interesting :P
17:02<Mark>:D
17:02<@Bjarni>are you planning on funding me to write a page about how to place signals too?
17:03<@Rubidium>Bjarni: why would you need to build native first? Building an universal binary without OSX adds a nice extra challenge ;)
17:04<el_en>Bjarni: yeah, i've managed building it universally, but it's silly how complicated it was.
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17:05<@Bjarni>the reason for building natively first is that if you have a setup issue you want to detect it while building natively so you know you shouldn't blame it on a crosscompiler
17:05<Mark>Bjarni: haha, now you're just mean :p
17:06<el_en>Bjarni: what about... have you encountered a problem with autoconf/Makefile things wanting to link /usr/lib/libiconv.dylib, which doesn't work with universal builds because it's not universal?
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17:06<@Bjarni>Mark: well if it works one out of 100 times, then I just have to say this 99 more times before I get credit :D
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17:07<@Bjarni>el_en: CFLAGS="-isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386" <-- this line will make the compiler see the SDK as file root and this should avoid that problem
17:08<@Bjarni>however it depends on how the autoconf script is written
17:08<@Bjarni>and sometimes it fails
17:08<@Bjarni>there is no "do it like this and it always work" solution
17:08<@Bjarni>I wouldn't mind such a solution though ;)
17:09<@Rubidium>true; many libraries don't even support cross compiling in a proper manner, e.g. libicu
17:11<@Bjarni>CFLAGS="-O -g -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386 -arch ppc" LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc" ./configure --disable-dependency-tracking <-- this work if configure is written as it should be written
17:11<@Bjarni>and it will produce a universal binary for 10.4
17:11<Mark>Bjarni: how interested are you in swedish railroads? (Especially 891mm)
17:11<@Bjarni>hmm
17:11<@Bjarni>somewhat
17:12<@Bjarni>I haven't actually been on a Swedish narrowgauge railroad though
17:12<Mark>Okey :p
17:12<@Rubidium>isn't 891mm quite wide for a model train?
17:13<Mark>I'm thinking of doing a heightmap of uppland in sweden, where the narrow-gauge Roslagsbanan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roslagsbanan ) in OTTD
17:14<el_en>Bjarni: the damned autoconf shit wants to use the absolute path, and -isysroot doesn't affect absolute paths.
17:14<Mark>It isn't a modeltrain though :)
17:14*Rubidium misses Uppsala
17:15<Aali>Mark: I've seen it, never rode on it though
17:15<Mark>Okay :)
17:15<@Bjarni>Mark: 891 mm gauge is a toy gauge though :P
17:16<+glx><@Rubidium> true; many libraries don't even support cross compiling in a proper manner, e.g. libicu <-- even 'native' win32 compilation needs tricks for this one
17:16<el_en>Bjarni: i'm quite convinced using -liconv would solve the problem, but seems to be next to impossible to change the exact linking parameters.
17:16<Mark>I've have lived in Rimbo, where SRJ (former owner of Roslagsbanan) had their formed headstation
17:17<@Bjarni>I know Roslagsbanan a little bit, but I have never been anywhere near it
17:17<Mark>And my gf lives about 500m from Stockholm Östra (The headstation now)
17:17<Mark>And her father is very interested in trains too, that's nice, then we have something to talk about :)
17:18<Aali>heh
17:18<Mark>He has alot of books about trains
17:18<Aali>so where do you live now?
17:18<Mark>About 14km from stockholm
17:18<Mark>But most of the time at my gf apartment in stockholm :p
17:20<@Bjarni>Roslagsbanan was actually the first railroad to be electrified (1895). Some US railroad opened their electric part later the same year and ever since the US have tried to convince the world that Roslagsbanan is in fact a tram and not a real railroad meaning that the first real electric railroad was in US
17:22<@Bjarni><Mark> Bjarni: how interested are you in swedish railroads? <--- when I first read that question for some reason my first thought was that SJ introduced the compressed air brake in 1920. Don't ask me why that was the first thing that came to my mind, but at least it was about Swedish rails xD
17:22<Mark>lol
17:22<Mark>Haha
17:22<Mark>yeah :P
17:23<@Bjarni>so do you have anything interesting to say about Swedish trains?
17:23<@Bjarni>I'm actually interested in information on Y6
17:24<@Rubidium>they have swedish conductors?
17:24<@Rubidium>or isn't that interesting?
17:24<@Bjarni>the Swedish conductors operate in Denmark for some reason :s
17:25<Mark>Isn't that for the öresundsbanan just?
17:25<@Bjarni>seriously. Take a train from Copenhagen towards the airport or northbound along the coast and odds are that the train crew will be Swedish
17:25<Mark>As I said :)
17:25<@Bjarni><Mark> Isn't that for the öresundsbanan just? <-- no, it's also Kbh-Helsingør
17:26<@Bjarni>which used to be 100% Danish
17:26<Mark>Mkay :p
17:26<@Bjarni>but then the train operator moved from being DSB to being DSB-First and they replaced the Danish crew with Swedish
17:26<Mark>That may be because the swedes gets better paid in denmark then in sweden
17:26<@Bjarni>at least it feels like they did
17:27<@Bjarni>one Swedish kr is worth 0.65 Danish kr
17:27<@Bjarni>meaning it's a very good deal to pay living expenses in Sweden and getting a paycheck in Denmark
17:27<Mark>Yes
17:28<Mark>Hmm
17:28<@Rubidium>Bjarni: use the euro... a 1 French euro is worth 1 Dutch euro; makes those calculations much easier
17:28<@Bjarni>it's still somewhat wrong that the train crew is unable to speak Danish :S
17:28<Mark>No one got "srtm_40_01"-files from Google Earth?
17:28<Mark>The HTTP and FTPs don't have it it seems like
17:28<Aali>if you're in it for the cash, just go to work in norway
17:28<Mark>Rubidium: :D
17:28<@Bjarni>for instance the other day they warned about slippery platforms... or at least we think that is what they said on the speaker
17:29<Mark>Aali: that's a good idea :)
17:29<@Bjarni>but nobody knows for sure since it was some Swede trying to speak Danish and nobody understood it
17:29<nicfer>one question, what happens if a company in the title screen game goes bankrupt?
17:29<Aali>friend of mine used to work in norway, came home every other weekend
17:29<Mark>Btw, does danish people have easier too understand swedes from stockholm or north sweden then swedes from Skåne?
17:30<Aali>made boatloads of cash
17:31<@Bjarni>Mark: err... people in Skåne can speak weird once in a while so it's not unlikely
17:32<@Bjarni>however personally I don't have a huge issue with Swedish. I mean I grew up with stuff being cheaper in Denmark than in Sweden meaning they were everywhere buying a whole lot of stuff
17:32<@Bjarni>also I have more Swedish than Danish TV channels
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17:33<@Bjarni>I remember that I could see Duck Tales in Swedish when I was around 10 but nobody had translated it to Danish at the time, so I couldn't be picky :)
17:33<Mark>Haha :p
17:34<Mark>Swedes love to buy beer and other alcohol in denmark
17:34<Mark>And in germany too
17:35<@Bjarni>hmm
17:35<el_en>not surprising
17:35<@Bjarni>I can see 3 Danish TV channels and 13 Swedish ones
17:35<@Bjarni>most of the Swedish ones aren't that interesting though
17:36<Mark>Nah, swedish TV sucks :p
17:36<@Bjarni><Mark> Swedes love to buy beer and other alcohol in denmark <-- I think Swedish kr is worth too little today for that to be good
17:36<@Bjarni>they used to invade Helsingør every Saturday though
17:37<Mark>^^
17:37<@Bjarni>I like this one. A bus from Sweden showed up in Helsingør, parked and everybody went to buy alcohol (this was the whole point)
17:37<el_en>in sweden they need to get almost everything from systembolaget.
17:37<@Bjarni>when the Swedes returned a big issue had come up. The bus was illegally parked and had been hit by a train
17:39<el_en>.. a train driven by Bjarni
17:40<@Bjarni>no
17:41<@Bjarni>I have yet to hit anything
17:41<@Bjarni>actually I read about this in the newspaper and I haven't been able to figure out who actually drove the train
17:41<@Bjarni>nobody wants to tell who drove 15 km/h and failed to avoid a parked bus :P
17:41<Mark>Haha
17:41<Mark>:D
17:45<@Bjarni>I did get the name of another guy (I will not tell it here). He starts off by hitting a knocked over tree that blocks the track (not his fault). Then he derails in a switch and after that he hits a shopping cart. He then goes "this appears to be a bad day"
17:45<@Bjarni>or something like that
17:46<@Bjarni>he was supposed to drive the first morning train but due to all his incidents the first train drove at 10 O'clock or something like that (it was weekend, but still)
17:46<@Bjarni>looks like he took all the bad luck for 3-5 years or something and "used" it during a few hours
17:47<@Bjarni>so do you have any good stories?
17:48<@Bjarni>anybody still reading this?
17:48<@Rubidium>no!
17:48<@Bjarni>:(
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>never
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>i would not dare
17:49<@Bjarni>then I wasted a great part of my life
17:49<@Rubidium>don't like your 20 line monologues
17:49<@Bjarni>or potientially great part of my life
17:49<Mark>:P
17:49<@Bjarni>I will never know what great inventions I could have made if I had spent my time differently
17:49<@Bjarni>Mark: what can you tell me about Y6?
17:50<apo_>Hm. How many ticks are approx. a day?
17:51<Mark>Bjarni: not much, what do you want to know?
17:51<@Bjarni>everything
17:51<@Bjarni>since I just got one
17:52<@Bjarni>it's a great technical design, but it would be interesting to get comments from people who have actually seen them in commercial service
17:52<Mark>Eh?
17:52<Mark>I have'nt :p
17:52<@Bjarni>:/
17:52<apo_>ah, 74.
17:52<Mark>All lines up here are electrified
17:53<@Bjarni>I should have guessed
17:53<Mark>And running with X*/RC*-trains
17:53<@Bjarni>I think it's 80% or 85% of Swedish rails that have been electrified
17:53<Mark>Mkay :p
17:54<@Bjarni>which is a result of coal shortage during WW1
17:54<Mark>Yep
17:54<@Bjarni>coal is imported, but hydropower is local
17:54<Mark>Waterpower?
17:54<@Bjarni>yeah
17:54<@Bjarni>it's called hydropowerplants in English
17:56<Brokkoli>why is it "plant"?
17:56<Mark>Ah
17:56<Mark>:)
17:57<@Bjarni>define: plant
17:57<@Bjarni>(botany) a living organism lacking the power of locomotion
17:57<@Bjarni>buildings for carrying on industrial labor; "they built a large plant to manufacture automobiles"
17:58<@Bjarni>pick one you think suits a building for producing power
17:58<@Bjarni>after all it's called a "power plant" ;)
17:58<Brokkoli>yes i know
17:58<Brokkoli>but why did they choose "plant" for factorys ;)
17:59<Brokkoli>or something similar
17:59<@Bjarni>I think it has been called power plant ever since the power plant on Pearl Street, which were coal powered and actually fitted the description of a plant
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>why did they choose "Werk" in german?
18:00<@Bjarni>well... it has to be called something
18:00<Brokkoli>yes sure
18:00<Brokkoli>but a plant.. a botanic plant.. is so different
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>why? botanic plants are (usually) solar power plants
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18:01<@Bjarni>"Werk" is related to work, meaning it's a place where hard work takes place
18:01<Brokkoli>ok thats an interesting link
18:01<Brokkoli>yes
18:01<@Bjarni>if I recall correctly then Werk is also used in works where "Mill" is used in English
18:02<@Bjarni>like "Steel mill"
18:02<Brokkoli>yes
18:02<Brokkoli>we have a lot of "werk"s here
18:02<@Bjarni>English named it after using a water mill to power the plant while German (and Danish too) named it after the work that took place inside
18:03<Brokkoli>yes
18:03<Brokkoli>factory is from the work
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18:03<@Bjarni>In Danish it's called "værk" and is pronounced more or less the same way as "Werk" and means the same
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>"Stahlwalzwerk"
18:04<@Bjarni>Stålvalseværk
18:04<@Bjarni>looks like you can learn Danish in a week
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>also similar "Sägewerk" -> "saw mill"
18:04<Brokkoli>yes
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause>(although i also heard the term "Sägemühle")
18:05<Brokkoli>yes me too
18:05<Brokkoli>but i have never heard "Stahlmühle" ;)
18:05<@Bjarni>which would indicate that German decided on naming based on power while English kept the name even when it was steam powered
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>that's also weird, mills are sometimes named after the thing that powers them but also sometimes after what they produce
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a "Steinmühle" here
18:06<Brokkoli>or "Windmühle"
18:06<@Bjarni>I once got a letter from England and it turned out that it was from "Silk mill road"
18:07<@Bjarni>I don't think we ever had silk mills here
18:07<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a "Steinmühle" here <-- is that based on construction or is it the stones for the grain that gave the name?
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think i read a plate where it said that they actually cut stone there
18:08<Brokkoli>ah ok
18:08<@Bjarni>(botany) a living organism lacking the power of locomotion <--- I just realised. If you break both legs, will you turn into a plant?
18:08<thingwath>you can still crawl
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>you can still move with your arms
18:09<Brokkoli>lol
18:09<@Bjarni>ok, break both legs and arms then
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>and you can still move your mouth
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>or your eye lids
18:09<@Bjarni>plants can move too
18:09<thingwath>some snake-like something with torso?
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>or your heart
18:09<Brokkoli>plants can move, too
18:09<Brokkoli>some are moving towards the light
18:09<@Bjarni>meat eating plants actually move quite a lot
18:09<Brokkoli>slow but moving
18:09<Brokkoli>yes
18:09<@Bjarni>and quite fast too
18:10<@Bjarni>trapping bugs inside
18:10<Brokkoli>yes i know them
18:10<Brokkoli>had one here ;)
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the distinction purely on moving is bound to fall into grey areas
18:10<Brokkoli>yes
18:11<@Bjarni>and is it is the ability to turn CO2 into O2, then fungus wouldn't be plants
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18:11<Eddi|zuHause>the typical definition of "plant" i know is based on capability of photosynthesis
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>fungus are no plants in that sense
18:12<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: you know the mushrooms on your pizza is usually classified as plants, yet they fail your definition
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18:12<SpComb>mushrooms are mushrooms
18:12*Bjarni agrees with SpComb
18:12<@Rubidium>and mushrooms can be lethal
18:12<Brokkoli>mushrooms are not plants
18:12<@Rubidium>and can spoil the soils
18:12<SpComb>people might disagree.... indeeed
18:12<db48x>mushrooms are fungus
18:13<@Bjarni> <Brokkoli> mushrooms are not plants <-- are you sure?
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18:13<Brokkoli>yes
18:13<Brokkoli>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus#Phylogeny_and_classification
18:14<Brokkoli>However, the fungi are now considered a separate kingdom, distinct from both plants and animals, from which they appear to have diverged approximately one billion years ago.
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>it says so on wikipedia, it must be true!
18:14<SpComb>there is no mention of the word "plant" on the wikipedia article for "mushroom"
18:14<+tokai>plants with animal cells :)
18:14<@Bjarni>Plants are organisms belonging to the kingdom Plantae. They include familiar organisms such as trees, herbs, bushes, grasses, vines, ferns, mosses, and green algae. About 350,000 species of plants, defined as seed plants, bryophytes, ferns and fern allies, are estimated to exist currently <-- that's the definition on wikipedia
18:14<@Bjarni>but I say it doesn't really define what it is. It just tells what's included
18:14<Brokkoli>ists hard to define
18:15<Brokkoli>you can do it with genetics
18:15<Brokkoli>all plants have some similar genetic parts
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>i remember that in our biology lessons we had a single-cellular organithm that was both plant and animal
18:15<@Bjarni>"Fungi were previously included in the plant kingdom, but are now seen to be more closely related to animals."
18:16<@Bjarni>oh dear. Now I will have nightmares of the dangerous hungry fungi chasing me and eating me
18:16<Brokkoli>yes
18:16<Brokkoli>lol
18:16<Brokkoli>All of these plants have eukaryotic cells with cell walls composed of cellulose, and most obtain their energy through photosynthesis, using light and carbon dioxide to synthesize food.
18:16<Brokkoli>thats a good definition
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: we go fungus-hunting every autumn, they must be animals
18:16<@Bjarni>I tried that once
18:17<@Bjarni>a big group with an instructor
18:17<@Bjarni>I ended up with nothing
18:17<+tokai>Good that you survived. :)
18:17<+tokai>Some who try that don't. :)
18:17<Brokkoli>they ran aray too fast ;)
18:17<@Bjarni>the basked was emptied because everything we found was poisonous
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, we occasionally had years where we found exactly 3 eatable mushrooms
18:17<@Bjarni>*were
18:18<De_Ghosty>mushrooms are animals
18:18<De_Ghosty>they eat plants
18:18<De_Ghosty>:o
18:18<+tokai>There are plants who eat animals.. so :)
18:18<Brokkoli>plants eat plants, too
18:18<+tokai>s/who/which/ rather
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, brown on the top and spongy on the bottom, you can't do much wrong with that rule :)
18:18<@Bjarni>there is no rule that plants can't eat plants
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18:18<@Bjarni>after all animals eats animals all the time
18:18<De_Ghosty>plant can eat plant?
18:19<db48x>and some plants eat animals
18:19<De_Ghosty>name one
18:19<db48x>pitcher plant
18:19<db48x>venus fly trap
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>there are plants that exclusively grow on other plants
18:19<De_Ghosty>one that eat plant
18:19<De_Ghosty>grow on
18:19<@Bjarni>I think he meant plants that eats plants
18:19<db48x>ah
18:19<De_Ghosty>mushroom kills the plant
18:19<db48x>kudzu
18:19<De_Ghosty>or eat dead plants
18:19<Brokkoli>De_Ghosty: ivy
18:20<Brokkoli>thy eat living plants
18:20<Brokkoli>as parasites
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>well "grow on" usually means "steal eatable material from"
18:20<+tokai>Venus Fly Trap eats Honey Bee eats Flower Stuff... so a plant eats plants by proxy :)
18:20<@Bjarni>:)
18:20<@Bjarni>proxy eating... never heard that before
18:21<Brokkoli>lol
18:21<@Bjarni>does that mean that I can set up a proxy server in the kitchen and then I don't have to leave my bed to go eating?
18:21<@Bjarni>or even better. I can eat at uni without making a lunchbox at home first
18:21<+tokai>Bjarni: you train yourself a dog who eats in your kitchech... then you eat the dog in your bed:)
18:22<+tokai>kitchen even
18:22<@Bjarni>...
18:22<@Bjarni>I wouldn't eat a dog
18:22<Brokkoli>or open the window and wait for some animals
18:22<Aali>proxy in the kitchen = wife
18:22<+glx>even a hot dog?
18:22<+tokai>Bjarni: a cat then. :)
18:22<@Bjarni> <Brokkoli> or open the window and wait for some animals <-- that actually happened for me
18:22<@Bjarni>open window = new bird
18:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15597 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): -Fix (r15563): regression wasn't updated after the removal of AIIndustry::GetMaxIndustryID().
18:22<Brokkoli>:)
18:23<+tokai>I usually get spiders here :)
18:23<@Bjarni>I didn't get a picture though, but once I entered my room and a bird was sitting on the open window looking at the room
18:23<De_Ghosty>lol proxy eating
18:23<@Bjarni>didn't like the fact that I showed up though
18:23<Sacro>zomg BJARNI
18:23<@Bjarni>so it looked at me instead and flew rather quickly
18:24<@Bjarni>zomg SACRO
18:24*Sacro hugs his fellow mac user
18:24<@Bjarni>I got a hug....
18:24<@Bjarni>Sacro: do you have boobs?
18:25<Sacro>well, sorta
18:25<Brokkoli>everyone has :P
18:25<@Bjarni>eek
18:25<@Bjarni>I got hugged by somebody with man boobs >.<
18:26<Brokkoli>know fight club?
18:26<@Rubidium>Brokkoli: can you show where DorpsGek's boobs are?
18:26<@Bjarni>don't talk about it
18:26<Sacro>Brokkoli: know rule 1?
18:26<@Bjarni>I hate the concept in that movie
18:28<@Bjarni>Sacro: so you want me to give you tips on how to compile on mac too?
18:28<Sacro>nope
18:28<@Bjarni>lamer
18:28<@Bjarni>don't want to compile then
18:28<Sacro>./configure --enable-zlib=/usr/locale && make && make bundle
18:28<Sacro>rer
18:28<Sacro>s/le/l/
18:28<Brokkoli>oh i forgot rule 1
18:29<@Bjarni>why the enable zlib thing?
18:29<+tokai>I tried to compile quickly on MorphOS some days ago.. I was surprised that the stuff I thought would fail actually compiled fine and it broke so far on some much simpler stuff (some function names collide with system function names)... but was too lazy to fix and didn't look further yet ;)
18:30<@Bjarni>I think you should fix that before 0.7.0
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18:31<+tokai>Depends on how soon you wanna release and what else problems could be in there too.
18:31<+tokai>Have only very little time currently on weekends.. and usually I know better things to do than fighting with C++ :P
18:31<Roujin>@Anyone who cares about the waypoint statistics: Got any suggestions on how to improve the looks? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2620/getfile/4034/waypoint_stats_4.png
18:32<@Bjarni>well... use the rest of the weekend to solve the name clashes (they are really simple to fix) and then you can figure out if there are any other issues
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>Brokkoli: if you forget rule 1, you always have rule 2 as fallback
18:32<@Rubidium>tokai: then give us a morphos install in something like pearpc so we can fix it ourselves ;)
18:32<@Bjarni>Roujin: cool
18:32<KenjiE20>^
18:33<+tokai>Rubidium: did you actually try it? maybe it just works? :)
18:33<KenjiE20>also is it possible to count unique trains that pass?
18:33<@Bjarni>do you have room for storing the number of tons of cargo and passenger count too?
18:33<Sacro>a large bucket!
18:33<Roujin>Solved the network incompatibility in my local copy now by using a new command instead of directly changing the in the gui code :roll:
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>tokai: last release was on 1st april, so you have one month ;)
18:34<@Rubidium>tokai: I seem to remember last time we discussed it it didn't work with pearpc for some reason
18:34<Roujin>Bjarni: hmm, that'd be some extra variables..
18:34<@Bjarni>Roujin: I know that but the question if is you can find room for them
18:35<Roujin>GUI wise?
18:35<@Bjarni>no, in the memory
18:35<@Bjarni>changing the window to display this isn't an issue
18:35<+tokai>Rubidium: Yes, I don't know the status myself; but we had some more releases in between. Who knows, maybe some stuff has changed. But probably not. :)
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18:36<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: waypoints are pool items, there should be found space for that easily
18:36<+tokai>Rubidium: I guess the Mac mini/ PPC version which is worked on could actually run fine in some Emulation then
18:36<Roujin>well, the waypoint struct can be given more variables easily
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18:36<@Bjarni>good point
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>but imho, the current "waypoints" should be completely removed
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>and replaced by stations which will get a "go via" flag by default
18:37<@Bjarni>to get multitile waypoints
18:37<@Bjarni>I agree
18:38<@Bjarni>the single tile waypoint was due to a communication flaw and ludde didn't get the idea of multi tile waypoints so it will be a waypoint rewrite
18:39<@Bjarni>or reusing stations
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>why not reuse stations?
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18:40<@Bjarni>I guess it's not that tricky to reuse stations now that we have a 64k limit
18:40<@Bjarni>but the limit back then before the station pool was... well you know ;)
18:40<@Bjarni>way too low
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>in the station window, you add a checkbox "treat this station as waypoint", and trains will not stop there unless given explicit order to stop
18:41<@Bjarni>why being able to change this?
18:41<@Bjarni>it could be a parameter when building
18:41<@Bjarni>and not changeable
18:41<De_Ghosty>we need more buttons
18:41<De_Ghosty>in the order menu
18:41<@Bjarni>and the building price would not be the same
18:42<De_Ghosty>they are too stacked
18:42<De_Ghosty>i have to click so much things to get an order
18:42<De_Ghosty>dislike pull down menus :o
18:42<+glx>btw now you can easily use a "don't stop at" order
18:42<@Bjarni>we need speech to text to order in the orders window
18:42<@Bjarni>so you can just tell it what you want to do
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>glx: yes, but you need to chose that every time. plus, you cannot make "pseudo-waypoint" signs invisible
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18:44<@Bjarni>maybe part of the solution is to make a better orders window
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>and i already had cases where i forgot to set the "go via" flag, and my passengers got heavily confused
18:44<@Bjarni>meaning it will be easier to set up
18:44<@Bjarni>hehe @ Eddi|zuHause's confused passengers
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, i was using cargodest ;)
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18:46<@Bjarni>I tried being a confused passenger not long ago
18:46<@Bjarni>I was supposed to use the 18:42 train
18:46<@Bjarni>at 28:46 a train showed up
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18:46<@Bjarni>*18:46
18:47<KingJ>I really would be a confused passenger if a 28:46 train turned up
18:47<@Bjarni>and at the same time as it stopped at the platform the sign about the next train changed destination and I wondered "where is this train going and can I use this one?"
18:47<@Bjarni>the train got delayed because they had to get people out of the train again :S
18:49<@Bjarni><KingJ> I really would be a confused passenger if a 28:46 train turned up <-- well we had interesting cases of this, like when I was in a train that broke down and got more than an hour late. One guy stood on the platform and saw the sign saying 9:20, then he checked his watch that most likely was correct (10:35) and then he looked at the sign and switched like that several times while looking really confused
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18:50<KingJ>heh
18:50<thingwath>is that so unusual?
18:51<SpComb>KingJ: perfectly logical time
18:51<SpComb>04:46 the next morning
18:51<@Bjarni>or this one is even better. Next train as station X as destination (this was correct) and it will not stop between A and B and it wrote A and B incorrectly, so it didn't pass any of those stations and those two stations were not even on the same line
18:51<KingJ>In which case, i'd be a very tired passenger SpComb
18:51<SpComb>I wish trains drove at five in the morning
18:51<SpComb>it would be most convenient
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>the only case mildly similar to bjarnis was that i was waiting on a platform, and the train was so late, they shoved a different train inbetween there on the same platform, so the sign changed to the new train (with accompanying speaker announcement) and later it changed back to the original train
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>some people were confused enough to try to get into the wrong train ;)
18:52<@Bjarni><SpComb> I wish trains drove at five in the morning <-- if trains didn't stop driving during the night, it would have saved me at least 5 minutes that I wasted telling a guy that he missed the last train
18:53<Roujin>uploaded new version of the waypoint statistics to flyspray that should now also work in multiplayer ;)
18:53<@Bjarni>he didn't understand that the northbound diesel train wasn't the southbound EMU that he planned to use
18:53<@Bjarni>I don't think this guy was clean
18:54<@Bjarni>in a way I hope that he wasn't because if he behaved normally then he would really be a lost cause :X
18:54<SpComb>kernel tainted, support revoked
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18:55<@Bjarni>SpComb: you shouldn't let your kernel access the internet. Everybody on the internet ends up being tainted at some point
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>i once missed a train on a sunday, and i thought there was a fallback train that i could use two hours later. but then i realised that the other train would go on every sunday, except this one. because tuesday was a holiday, so the traditional sunday schedule was moved to tuesday, expecting all people to have a free day on monday
18:56<@Bjarni>hehe
18:56<@Bjarni>sounds complicated
18:56<@Bjarni>here Sundays are Sundays
18:56<@Bjarni>and national days off are treated as Sundays, but they announce that in advance
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's not complicated, the problem was that they didn't want to give me that monday free
18:57<@Bjarni>I like Sundays
18:57<@Bjarni>lot's of vacant tracks
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, they say that in the schedule. "every sunday, except 29th april"
18:57<@Bjarni>it's also interesting to drive during the night
18:57<@Bjarni>like after the last train
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>"... also 1st may"
18:58<@Bjarni>basically you can take as long as you like when you block a station due to switching work
18:58<@Bjarni>and you never encounter red signals
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19:00<energetic>sorry - afk.
19:01<energetic>Eddi: that doesnt matter
19:01<energetic>since they delete their ends
19:01<energetic>you can have a station of any town at any place in the game - if there is a landpath between those two places
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause>don't statues only work in the town authority radius?
19:04<energetic>no
19:04<energetic>only ads
19:04<energetic>5/10/15
19:04<energetic>statues work for stations build the first time in the town area
19:04<energetic>so then they walk all across the map
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a bug
19:05<energetic>well what happens is:
19:05<energetic>stations gets built, town assigned
19:05<energetic>which doesnt change as the location of the name changes
19:06<energetic>maybe when relocating the name of the station
19:06<@Bjarni>this was ok before you could remove one tile of a station
19:06<energetic>recheck - and reassign if needed- the town it belings to
19:06<@Bjarni>so it sounds like the bug is that you can move a station
19:07<@Rubidium>nah, sounds like a bug that statues have a positive effect on stations
19:07<energetic>Bjarni: it is a sideeffect of the introduction of join stations
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19:07<Eddi|zuHause>energetic: no, it's not. everything that is possible now was also possible before. only it was more difficult to use
19:08-!-Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08<energetic>before join stations patch/functionality, this was impossible
19:08<energetic>but that doesnt matter anyway
19:08<Mark>http://217.151.48.24/markmc/South_East_Sweden_RC_5.scn
19:08<@Bjarni>actually you could if you built road stations
19:08<Mark>Iäm done I think
19:08<energetic>anyway, that statues have a positive effect on stations' rating is intended bahviour
19:09<energetic>true. But not for railstations
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: "sounds like a bug that statues have a positive effect on stations" ... that are outside the town's radius of influence
19:09<energetic>which is kinda the point, since you are not likely to compete with RVs
19:10<energetic>ah, right :+
19:11<energetic>Though I am not sure if you could remove parts of a station before the joinstation-patch
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>energetic: removing parts of stations was introduced with irregular stations
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>and that was a very very long time ago
19:11<@Bjarni>Mark: looks ok, except for the industries
19:12<energetic>04 era out of my head
19:12<@Bjarni>I got a whole lot of coal and as we all know that's not Sweden :P
19:12<@Bjarni>apart from the industries, the scenario looks quite nice
19:12<@Bjarni>or at least it looks like it captured the area quite good
19:13<@Bjarni>I don't know if it will be that interesting to play but that's an issue of how the area is in real life and not your work
19:13<energetic>if (station.removed_tile.location == station.location) { station.ReassignTown(); }
19:14<energetic>if (station.removed_tile.location == station.location) { station.ReassignTown(newlocation); }
19:16<Mark>Bjarni: yeah, I know
19:16<@Bjarni>also the map have one major flaw
19:16<@Bjarni>my house is not in it :P
19:24<Mark>You live in Denmark?
19:24<energetic>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2693
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19:33<@Bjarni><Mark> You live in Denmark? <-- yeah
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause>haha... this is so cool "we asked people in paris to sing the german national anthem, out of 25 people, only 1 person could hum the melody, and he was not even french", "we asked people in berlin to sing the french national anthem, and 3/4 of them knew the melody and often even the text"
19:33<Mark>http://217.151.48.24/markmc/South_East_Sweden_Final_1.scn Done :)
19:35<@Bjarni>borked
19:35<@Bjarni>look to the north
19:36<@Bjarni>there is a wide line of water
19:36<@Bjarni>way too wide
19:36<@Bjarni>also I can terraform your name into whatever I want :P
19:56<De_Ghosty>cuz they don't care about ze jermans!!
19:58<Mark>Bjarni: I know, so what? :p
19:58<Mark>That sealine in the north, how should I fix it?
20:00<Brokkoli>move the land to the north
20:00<Brokkoli>or add land there?
20:01<Brokkoli>using 0.7 you can totaly remove the water at the borders
20:02<Mark>Mkay :p
20:02<@Bjarni>goodnight
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20:02<Mark>I'm reguraly using nightly, but for this scenario I used 0.6.3
20:03<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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20:27<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: did they ask a crowd of french tourists?
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20:45<De_Ghosty>lol
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20:54<apo_><3 the tree huggers in city councils.
21:03<Brokkoli>who needs a train station
21:03<Brokkoli>trees ftw
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22:04<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXjUPOJmChc
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23:00<apo>Is there some easy way to upgrade >100 trains to monorail? :|
23:01<Sacro>no
23:01<apo>... damn
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 02 00:00:25 2009