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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-05

---Logopened Thu Mar 05 00:00:33 2009
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01:48<Eddi|zuHause><Cutter> my boats get 9000 $ for transfering 100 passengers, but the buses get only about 30 $ for delivering the same passengers to destination <- means you get 9000
01:48<Eddi|zuHause>+30
01:48<Eddi|zuHause>in total
01:48<Eddi|zuHause>where is the problem?
01:49<narc>Even if you get -30 on bus delivery, you still got $8970 for the whole trip.
01:49<narc>Some people don't understand this =/
01:51<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: show the last leg of a transfer also as transfer credit, combined with a total "income" amount, which is the money you really get
01:52<narc>^
01:52<narc>Neat idea.
01:52<Eddi|zuHause>in that case, it would show "Transfer: -30, Income: 8970"
01:52<narc>Since we're already tracking the total income over the lifetime of the cargo packet, it should all be available for display, in theory.
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02:25<dihedral>\o/
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04:21<planetmaker>good morning
04:23<racetrack>evening
04:27<DASPRiD>godd midday :x
04:27<DASPRiD>s/midday/noon
04:28<dihedral># willst du nix spuel mit PRiDs
04:31<DASPRiD>dihedral, :P
04:32<DASPRiD>willst du dih, frag den PRi
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05:03<dihedral>DASPRiD: it's pronounced differently!
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05:04<planetmaker>dihedral: you pronounce it differently. Not him :P
05:07<dihedral>all germans make the same mistake ^^
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05:33<@petern>nice, ohloh supports mercurial now (as a beta)
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06:29<planetmaker>does the local authority setting (permissive, tolerant, hostile) also affect the rate at which the rating is restored?
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06:40<planetmaker>nvm. found it :)
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06:45<Ammler>openttd uses 1.6 GB on the ps
06:46<Ammler>also the nightly server of dih uses a lot of ram.
06:46<@Rubidium>Ammler: and how did you figure that out?
06:46<Ammler>oh, didn't want to tell that here, hat was what I liked to ask.
06:47<@petern> 5074 petern 20 0 3051m 18m 3632 S 0 0.5 276:08.85 openttd
06:47<Ammler>it is just that we have crashes because of "out of memory"
06:47<@petern>3051? heh
06:47<Ammler>never saw that before...
06:48<Cybertinus>planetmaker: and what is the anwser to your question? I want to know that too ;)
06:48<@petern>18MB resident, 3051MB virtual... boggle
06:48<Ammler>and that virtual memory doesn't hurt?
06:49<planetmaker>Cybertinus: no effect.
06:49<Cybertinus>planetmaker: ok, htnx
06:49<Cybertinus>thnx8
06:49<Cybertinus>thnx**
06:49<planetmaker>yw
06:49<@petern>$ free -m total used free shared buffers cached
06:49<@petern>Mem: 3995 3740 255 0 356 2954
06:49<Cybertinus>stupid typos :p
06:49<@petern>no
06:50<Ammler>same here, 1.6 is virtual
06:50<Ammler>and 16m is resistent, if you call that so...
06:50<@petern>hasn't caused me a problem yet, but that is a little excessive...
06:51<Ammler>it seems, that virutal server doesn't like it
06:51<Ammler>the ps is on a root and didn't crash with odm
06:52<@Rubidium>virtual server == shared memory between all virtual servers -> when something in another virtual server uses too much memory it kills some (other) application using much memory
06:54<Ammler>Rubidium: the silly thing is, you just need to restart openttd and it works again well
06:54<Ammler>(same game)
06:55<@Rubidium>well... how about the OOM wasting more memory and killing the real run-away waster?
06:55<@Rubidium>I've seen it happen many many times on our dedicated server
06:56<Ammler>OOM?
06:57<@Rubidium>real run away keeps wasting memory and then gets killed by the OOM killer
06:59-!-Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:59<@petern>so where's out memory leak?
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06:59<@petern>*our
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07:00<@Rubidium>that's the question; I've ran OpenTTD on fast forward for a whole night and it didn't leak (more than just starting OpenTTD and closing it)
07:01<@petern>that's not a network server. coincidence?
07:01<@Rubidium>might be, but Zahl reported something similar
07:02<@Rubidium>in non-network mode
07:02<@Rubidium>but he's on Windows
07:02<@petern>my L4D server is only 192MB ;)
07:02<Ammler>dih doesn't run his server with newgrfs
07:03<planetmaker>Cybertinus: see the long answer there: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=770147#p770147
07:06<Ammler>petern, do you know, how long your server is running?
07:06<Ammler>our ps with 1.6 GB has does 17h now
07:07<@petern>since feb 22
07:07<Ammler>if you start openttd, is uses around 80mb
07:07<Ammler>petern: I assume, it only affects, if server is unpaused
07:07<@petern>i have no idea
07:10<@Rubidium>might it have something to do with malloc randomisation?
07:12<@Rubidium>or address space layout randomisation
07:13<@petern>no
07:15<Ammler>If I watch it, I would say it happens while the month change
07:16<Ammler>autosave or something...
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07:16<Ammler>the memory is quite constant and jumps on the end of month
07:16<@petern>i have autosave on
07:16<Ammler>we use monthly save here
07:16<@petern>yeah
07:16<@petern>saved me when the power went out :)
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07:17<Ammler>monthly save with 255 saves ;-)
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07:18<Ammler>we once needed 100 saves to restore sabotage...
07:25<Ammler>wow Dutch Trainset
07:25<planetmaker>?
07:26<@Rubidium>at least their 1.0 came before dbset's 1.0
07:28<@petern>1.0 is overrated
07:29<@Rubidium>very true
07:29<Forked>today it's all about the google way [Beta]
07:29<@Rubidium>people think OpenTTD is about 15 times worse than Simutrans just because we're only at 0.6 and they're are 0.100
07:29<Forked>wait..
07:29<Forked>0.6 > 0.1? =p
07:30<thingwath>depends
07:31<sexten>I've never heard of Simutrans until 1 minute ago, and ewww that looks ugly:/
07:31<@petern>hahaha
07:32<Ammler>do you distribute opengfx with the windows installer of 7beta?
07:33<Ammler>I installed it yeterday for the comic.pak but already deleted again.
07:33<@Rubidium>no... and it certainly won't be added until it's finished; I dislike all those OpenTTD is broken because of the black boxes" which undoubtedly is going to happen a lot
07:34<Ammler>hmm, was just wondering about someone complained about the black boxes after he installed it.
07:34<Ammler>yeah :-)
07:35<Ammler>then he needed to activate it accidentially?
07:35<Ammler>or does that happen automatically after you donwload it?
07:36<Ammler>(with bananas)
07:36<@petern>if you download it it takes priority if you haven't specificially set the base graphics set
07:36<@petern>so when you restart it'll get chosen
07:36<Ammler>most people just downlad all
07:36<@petern>that's their problem
07:37<Ammler>indeed
07:39<@Rubidium>which is the reason there's no "select all" button
07:39<dihedral>\o/
07:39<Ammler>there isn't?
07:39<@Rubidium>only when selecting specific content, i.e. when opening it with missing newgrfs
07:40<dihedral>Ammler, dont you dig into my vps issues like that - it's not an openttd issue
07:41<dihedral>yes the vps runs out of mem but it's not inside the vps
07:41<dihedral>that said
07:41<Ammler>thanks :P
07:41<dihedral>dont you _ever_ ask someone with op rights in that channel to quit my server again!
07:41<dihedral>you know of enough ways to contact me
07:42<dihedral>or Osai
07:42<dihedral>Ammler ^
07:42<dihedral>i hope that is clear!
07:43<Ammler>omg are you a stupid quy.
07:43<dihedral>??
07:44<dihedral>excuse me?
07:46<Forked>I can't decide if I want to get popcorn or not for this. (ignore me btw)
07:46<@Rubidium>then decide on whether you can or can't decide
07:48<@petern>haha
07:48<@petern>what happened?
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07:51<@petern>oh right
07:52<@petern>that's not exactly ammler's fault
07:52<@petern>i should take people off ignore :p
07:53<@Rubidium>petern: nah, just guess who might've said something (stupid)
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07:55<dihedral>petern, i kind of dislike it when people try to solve an issue on a server, and instead of getting in touch with me, decide to tell someone that i am find with them mucking around
07:56<@petern>i rather guess the other way
07:56<@petern>it's simpler
07:56<dihedral>:-P
07:56<dihedral>i prefer being contacted if something does not work on my vps
07:56<@petern>it's not ammler's fault if the people you trust are stupid
07:56<dihedral>well they know now ;-)
07:59<@petern>Fetched 60.2MB in 7s (8224kB/s)
07:59<@petern>not *too* shoddy
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07:59<dihedral>that's alright ^^
07:59<dihedral>*cough*
08:00<Forked>meh
08:00<@petern>only a 100mbit network card, iirc
08:00<Forked>my NIC is the slowest thing here
08:00<@petern>well
08:00<Forked>yep
08:00<@petern>only a 100mbit network connection
08:01<Forked>several gigabits of internet uplink!1one
08:01<Forked>and they wont let me place even a 1U server anywhere :\
08:01<@petern>heh
08:01<@petern>we only have 100mbit connections
08:02<Forked>100Mbit LAN.. lots of gigabits of internet.. like any ISP should have
08:02<Forked>the last part anyway
08:02<dihedral>at least ;-)
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08:37<Timitry>Uh
08:37<Timitry>found a bug in pbs-pathfinding, i think
08:37<planetmaker>Many thought that :)
08:38<DASPRiD>planetmaker, \o/
08:38<planetmaker>ho DASPRiD
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08:40<Timitry>http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2917/pbscrash.png
08:41<Timitry>As soon as the first train completely passes the crossing tracks there, the train on the upper right makes a reservation...
08:42<Timitry>Worth a FS-entry? Or did i miss something? :)
08:42<Timitry>I know it's an ugly construction...
08:45<planetmaker>Timitry: I see two signals and three trains. Something has to crash...
08:45<Timitry>Yes, but why did the train on the upper right not stay at the signal before the bridge
08:45<Timitry>?
08:46<planetmaker>so there's a signal upper right out of the image which wasn't forced through?
08:46<Timitry>yep
08:46<planetmaker>he :)
08:46<Timitry>second, i'm making a better picture
08:46<Timitry>http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2917/pbscrash.png
08:47<Timitry>The train first waited at the signal before the bridge
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08:47<Timitry>And when the middle train completely passed the crossing tracks, it made a reservation and started moving
08:48<planetmaker>Timitry: I don't understand how it happs. I guess make a FS entry with a save before the 3rd train starts
08:48<@petern>savegame before ;)
08:48<Timitry>yep
08:49<Timitry>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2701
08:50<@petern>ps
08:50<@petern>don't say "where the screen is centered"
08:51<@petern>because it's dependent on screen resolution
08:51<@petern>or window size
08:52<planetmaker>[13:52] <petern> that's not exactly ammler's fault
08:52<planetmaker>[13:56] <petern> i rather guess the other way
08:52<@petern>planetmaker: different conversations
08:53<planetmaker>uhm... yeah
08:53<planetmaker>sorry
08:54<Timitry>Okay, but it will happen in the window if you don't move it :)
08:57<Timitry>And another question / general wondering: In this picture: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7910/whynot.png - Why would the train at the left bottom not reserve a path to the middle and then wait in that loop? It would be a safe waiting position, and the other train could still pass it...
08:58*dihedral dislikes those signal images...
09:00<Timitry>Hehe... If i make the short track in the middle (the upper left one) a bit longer, it works...
09:01<planetmaker>Timitry: how long is your train in tiles?
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09:04<Ammler>memory again at 250MB (after 1.4h)
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09:05<Timitry_>Stupid PC...
09:06<Ammler>seems like it grows constantly with time.
09:06<Timitry_>Anything i missed after writing "Hehe... asdadsasdasd"
09:06<Timitry_>?
09:06<dihedral>!logs
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09:06<dihedral>or read through thegrebs.com
09:07<planetmaker>[15:01] <planetmaker> Timitry: how long is your train in tiles?
09:07<Cybertinus>heh
09:07<Cybertinus>strange
09:08<Cybertinus>I have disabled "transparent buildings"
09:08<Timitry_>Oh, thanks for the link
09:08<Cybertinus>but all my stations and depots are transparent
09:08<Timitry_>The trains are all 5 tiles long
09:08<Cybertinus>but the buildings arn't
09:08<dihedral>Cybertinus, press ctrl+x
09:08<planetmaker>Cybertinus: Ctrl+x
09:09<Cybertinus>ah, found why
09:09<dihedral>i beat you too it :-P
09:09<Cybertinus>for some reason I was building a sing
09:09<dihedral>*to
09:09<Cybertinus>sign*
09:09<Cybertinus>and I was changing the text
09:09<Cybertinus>that explains why it didn't respont to pressing x, but responded somewhat to changing the setting with the mouse :p
09:10<Cybertinus>what does ctrl+x do
09:10<Cybertinus>?
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09:11<dihedral>Cybertinus, do it and find out!
09:11<dihedral>:-P
09:12<dihedral>it opens the transparency options window
09:12<Cybertinus>oeh, nice
09:12<Cybertinus>transparency options
09:12<Cybertinus>didn't know they existed :D
09:12<dihedral>you can define what level of transparency is used when you press x
09:12<dihedral>play around with it a bit ;-)
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09:13<Cybertinus>indeed
09:13<Cybertinus>but it doesn't remember it :(
09:13<Cybertinus>I disable a few of them
09:13<Cybertinus>press x twice
09:13<Cybertinus>and the are all enabled again
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09:18<Ammler>Cybertinus: lock mode
09:18<Ammler>(ctrl-click on the icon, iirc)
09:19<Cybertinus>ok
09:19<dihedral>is there not a button below each icon?
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09:19<Ammler>that is for invisible
09:20<Cybertinus>nice
09:20<Cybertinus>ctrl-click works perfectly
09:20<Cybertinus>that everything was transparent was one of the little downsides of (o)TTD
09:20<Cybertinus>that is solved now :)
09:22<Cybertinus>now I don't have to see trees ever again :)
09:29<MrFrans>=D \o/
09:30<@Belugas>mmh... i'd turn off that feature while walking outside, if i were you...
09:30<Forked>no no .. just film him walk into a tree
09:30<planetmaker>ymmd, Belugas :D
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09:35<Cybertinus>lol Belugas
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09:55<wild_Ari>!password
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09:56<@Belugas>good bot... very good bot!
09:56*Belugas pats the bot
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09:59<dihedral>does the bot trim the string? :-P
09:59<dihedral>or is it still petern's script?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>it's glx's script
09:59<dihedral>ah
10:03<Eddi|zuHause><Timitry> And another question / general wondering: In this picture: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7910/whynot.png - Why would the train at the left bottom not reserve a path to the middle and then wait in that loop? It would be a safe waiting position, and the other train could still pass it... <- the pathfinder thinks the reserved path is shorter than the detour, you need to increase pbs_cross_penalty to make the train consider
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>longer detours (might cause sideeffects elsewhere)
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11:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15619 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: -Fix [FS#2701]: When trying to reserve a self-crossing path the failed reservation was sometimes not cleared completely.
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11:23<Firzen>Is it possible to load a savegame with a dedicated server?
11:23<frosch123>type "openttd -h" and watch out for an option to load a savegame
11:24<Brokkoli>or in the server console
11:24<Brokkoli>"load"
11:24<Firzen>Ok, I'll try it ^^ Will this work if the server has other settings than the savegame?
11:25<Brokkoli>some settings are loaded from the savegame
11:25<Brokkoli>but you need the newgrfs
11:26<Firzen>What about patches and autosave interval?
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11:28<frosch123>autosave is not stored in the savegame
11:28<Brokkoli>but some patch options are
11:28<Ammler>Firzen: use 0.7beta or nightlies and you don't have any patch options anymore ;-)
11:28<Brokkoli>extended options *g*
11:29<Brokkoli>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Console you might want to look here for commands
11:29<Firzen>Thanks.
11:29<Ammler>those adv. settings important for the game are saved in the game, those important for the server in the cfg.
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11:36<Firzen>So it's 'rcon PW "load save/autosave/autosave1.sav"', isn't it?
11:37<Brokkoli>i think it's without "save/"
11:38<Firzen>Doesn't work either.
11:39<Brokkoli>try a 'rcon PW list'
11:39<Brokkoli>'rcon PW ls'
11:39<Brokkoli>sorry ;)
11:40<Firzen>0) .. (Parent) || 1) autosave/ (Directory)
11:40<Firzen>As output.
11:41<Firzen>So autosave/autosave1.sav should work <.<
11:41<Brokkoli>rcon PW cd 1
11:41<+glx>"cd 1" ;)
11:41<Brokkoli>;)
11:41<Brokkoli>then again ls
11:42<Brokkoli>and load <number>
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11:43<Firzen>The problem was the .sav
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12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15620 /trunk/src/map_func.h: -Fix[FS#2699]: Error in documentation (Conditional Zenith).
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12:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15621 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Feature: When cloning a vehicle with a custom name, add and/or increment a number at the end of name and assign it to the new vehicle (for emma)
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12:46<Yexo>petern: any reason for not using IsUniqueVehicleName ?
12:47<Yexo>vehicles names are currently globally unique, not only per company
12:47-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
12:47<@petern>mmm duplication
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12:49<Yexo>and it doesn't increate the number with a train named "mytrain (3)", but that's by design I guess
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12:51<@petern>can't catch everything :/
12:51<@petern>you should at least get "mytrain (3) 2"
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12:52<Yexo>it does that
12:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15622 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Duplication.
12:52<Yexo>and that's ok, updating "(3)" gives more problems with the conversion from 9 to 10
12:53<Yexo>ifffffff <- hehe :p
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13:18<el_en>hello, borgs.
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13:21<Wolf01>hello
13:22<el_en>you're late
13:23<Wolf01>yes, 3 days late
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14:26<Wolf01>'night
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14:41<Timitry>Are tasks in FlySpray always deleted after they are solved / included?
14:41<@SmatZ>they are never deleted
14:41<@SmatZ>they are just closed
14:41<Timitry>But tahnks to michi_cc for fixing that PBS-issue!
14:41<Timitry>Will try if it works tomorrow :)
14:41<Timitry>Hm...
14:42<@SmatZ>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2701 works perfectly for me
14:43<Timitry>hm yes
14:43<Timitry>just found that by the irc logs...
14:43<@SmatZ>you can show all tasks when you use that +Advanced button ;)
14:43<Timitry>ah, now i found it over the flyspray-search...
14:43<Timitry>;)
14:46<planetmaker>Timitry: or bugs.openttd.org/fs2701 should also work - if you know the number
14:47<@SmatZ>!fs 2701
14:47<@SmatZ>or so :-p
14:49-!-jpm_ is now known as jpm
14:50<Ammler>or just use advanced search and look for your Task...
14:51<Yexo>@bug 2701
14:51<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Temporary Offline
14:51<Yexo>dunno why it doesn't work, but that is the correct command :p
14:54<frosch123>@fs 2701
14:54<@DorpsGek>frosch123: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2701
14:54<frosch123>:)
14:57<@SmatZ>frosch123 knows the magic character :)
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14:57<@SmatZ>oh noes, a qozumeryj
14:57<@SmatZ>@seen qozumeryj
14:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen qozumeryj.
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15:41<likufanele>hello... I haven't been playing ottd for a while but didn't the mouse pointer moved along when panning around...?
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15:45<@SmatZ>likufanele: hello, no
15:45-!-planetmaker is now known as Tycoon
15:46<frosch123>there are a lot of different scrolling mechanisms
15:46-!-Tycoon is now known as planetmaker
15:46<frosch123>you can inverse the scroll direction when right-click-scrolling
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15:46<frosch123>you can scroll by left-clicking on free tiles
15:47<frosch123>you can scroll by moving the mouse near the edge of the window
15:47<frosch123>take a look at advanced settings :)
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15:49<likufanele>hmm... how about the original ttd...?
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15:50<@SmatZ>likufanele: hello, no
15:51<likufanele>hmm... I'm suddenly thrown off by the lack of mouse pointer movement when panning... :/
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15:53<likufanele>this is so weird... :/
15:53<frosch123>hmm, the fan of my graphicscard is driven by a two-stroke engine :/
15:54<@SmatZ>hehe
15:55<frosch123>about two weeks ago it started to become louder, now the noise changes every 5 minutes to something other strange
15:55<frosch123>vacuum cleaning did not help :(
15:55<@SmatZ>maybe it's the time...
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16:00<likufanele>oh... I know why... it's probably because of my extensive use of Google Earth...
16:04<@Belugas>mouse moving while panning?
16:05<@Belugas>me brain cannot visualise
16:05<planetmaker>meh... :( Better change now... frosch123 :)
16:05<planetmaker>Or the stork will get it :P
16:07<frosch123>it is still running :)
16:07<@Belugas>and....
16:07<@Belugas>vrooooooom...
16:07<@Belugas>it jsut passed by!
16:07<planetmaker>:P
16:08<planetmaker>We had a wonderful SGI. But it was as loud as a industrial grade vacuum cleaner. Noone wanted to use it...
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16:09<planetmaker>... don't spoil your computer fun, frosch123 :)
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16:10<frosch123>the fan is not comparable with a blade of a turbo-pump that runs with 15000 U/s in vacuum and that passes through walls if broken
16:11<planetmaker>lol yeah
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16:12<planetmaker>and they really become loud after some time, if you sand-ray them from the inside :P
16:12<@petern># sand-raaaaay, sand-ray! duh-duh duh duh duh duh
16:14<planetmaker>hey, that's even patented ;)
16:14<planetmaker>but only in Germany :P
16:15<frosch123>what? destroying a turbo-pump with a sand-ray?
16:16<planetmaker>kinda, yeah :)
16:17<planetmaker>Though the use is to des-agglomerate micron particles
16:17<planetmaker>but if particles = silica it amounts to sand-raying the turbo-pump
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16:19<frosch123>hmm, wikipedia says I was factor 10 wrong, they only run at 1500 U/s
16:21<planetmaker>I guess wiki is wrong
16:22<planetmaker>15k U/min sounded about right
16:22<+glx>until it's quoted in a newspaper ;)
16:22<planetmaker>:P
16:22<frosch123>I sayd U/s !
16:22<planetmaker>oh
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16:22<frosch123>15k per minute is far to less :)
16:22<@petern>wtf is U?
16:23<frosch123>germanism
16:23<@petern>you and your germanisms
16:23<planetmaker>rotations
16:23<planetmaker>rpm
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16:46*Belugas runs to catch his bus
16:46<@Belugas>night all
16:46<Timitry>night
16:46<@Belugas>swwwwiiiiiiift
16:50<@Rubidium>fly Belugas fly ;)
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17:01<Felicitus>good evening
17:01<Yexo>good evening Felicitus
17:02<Felicitus>screw oracle!
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17:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15623 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Fix (r15615): close the files you've opened
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17:29<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:30<@SmatZ>hello night owl
17:31<Nite_Owl>petern: On behalf of all the compulsive, insane re-namers who play this game Thank You for r15621
17:31<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
17:33<Nite_Owl>I thanked you and all of the other developers on the forums also just to reach a larger crowd
17:34<@petern>heh
17:34<@petern>you can't use it!
17:34<@petern>it was for emma :o
17:34<@petern>;)
17:35*petern off to bed
17:35<Nite_Owl>ok - I will not use it <has his fingers crossed behind his back>
17:35<@petern>hehe
17:35<Nite_Owl>good night petern
17:36<Nite_Owl>out of curiosity - who is emma?
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17:42<@petern>just a friend
17:43<Nite_Owl>who renames everything
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17:45<@petern>one would assume so
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17:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15624 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r15621): warning about comparing signed and unsigned integer types
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17:59<@petern>good ol' msvc
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18:22<[wito]>So I was thinking
18:23<racetrack>uhoh
18:23<[wito]>:P
18:23<Sacro>oh dear
18:23<[wito]>Cliffs
18:23<Sacro>no thinking
18:23<[wito]>like the ones generated by AutoSlopes, ya?
18:24<[wito]>except in a user-controllable context
18:24<Prof_Frink>Mmm, cliffs
18:24<Sacro>of dover?
18:25<Prof_Frink>Nah, they're chalk.
18:25<[wito]>Sacro: nay, Moher.
18:25<Sacro>oh?
18:25<[wito]>*badum-tish*
18:25<[wito]>what would be more intimidating than the company HQ on top of a 500 m tall pillar?
18:26<Sacro>the 500m tall pillar on top of the HQ
18:26<racetrack>[wito]: company hq on top of a 500m tall volcano
18:27<[wito]>:P
18:27<[wito]>Or how about a town perched on a precarious coastline cliff?
18:27<Sacro>or on top of a pillar
18:27<[wito]>or on top of a pillar, yeah
18:28<Prof_Frink>Cliffs should attract tourists.
18:28<[wito]>or an even just slightly accurate Grand Canyon 2048*2048 scenario?
18:28<@Rubidium>[wito]: and how do you look 'behind' those cliffs?
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18:29<[wito]>Rubidium: waddayamean behind?
18:31<+glx>just imagine a road in the canyon, how can you see it?
18:31<+glx>and how to place it?
18:31<[wito]>right
18:31<[wito]>that...
18:32*glx waits for rotate view suggestion ;)
18:32<[wito]>yeah, when is that coming? :P
18:33<[wito]>if the canyon is sufficiently deep and narrow, tho', that won't fix it
18:33<[wito]>top-down view? ;)
18:33<+glx>it's not doable as you'll need to redraw many sprites
18:33<[wito]>layer caking?
18:34<+glx>there are no layers
18:34<[wito]>and there is no spoon. :P
18:34<Prof_Frink>Even transparentier mode?
18:35<[wito]>Prof_Frink: given that we now have invisible, that would have to be transparentierier
18:35<@SmatZ>[wito]: like, multitile buildings - town houses, industries, HQ, ...
18:35<+glx>airports
18:36<[wito]>I know. :P
18:36<[wito]>Top-down view was a joke. :P
18:36<@Rubidium>how to look under a bridge in top-down view? ;)
18:37<wollollo>would it be possible to make all ground tiles above a certain height invisible?
18:37<[wito]>:P
18:37<[wito]>but isn't building bases textures on a plane?
18:37<wollollo>so you could "peel" the landscape down to where you wanted?
18:38<@Rubidium>wollollo: depends on what invisible means; if you mean don't draw them that'll work
18:38<[wito]>If I understand the current mechanics of the surface, my next suggestion would be easier to implement:
18:38<[wito]>Pathfinding autorail!
18:38<+glx>where's the fun with that?
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18:39<Yexo>[wito]: next suggestions: also build stations automatically, next suggestions: press a button and let the game play itself
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18:39<[wito]>glx: make it dumb as a box of hammers; and only enabled for non-multidirectional rail. :P
18:40<@SmatZ>[wito]: I think there is a patch like that at tt-forums (somewhere) ... at least I know I tried it :)
18:40<Aali>[wito]: you can do that yourself with NoAI
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18:42<[wito]>oh
18:43<[wito]>"In conclusion, cliffs, while providing an interesting new dimension (heh) to the visual planning of a terrain, introduce several technical dilemmas that must be considered before formal design can commence."
18:46<@SmatZ>nicely said that "users won't see what they are building behind cliffs"
18:46<@SmatZ>[wito]: this one http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33054
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18:46<[wito]>which isn't that much of a problem, if all cliffs point south. :P
18:47<@SmatZ>hehe
18:47<@SmatZ>people would notice that and request them pointing to north too
18:49<[wito]>oh, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to build north-pointing cliffs
18:49<[wito]>just that the map generator would avoid them (or cliffs alltogether)
18:54<Prof_Frink>All good cliffs do point south.
18:54<Prof_Frink>maximum sunshine, so you can climb all year
18:54<@SmatZ>hehe
18:55<@SmatZ>fail when you are on the southern hemisfere
18:55<Prof_Frink>Yeah, but antipodeans are silly anyway.
18:56<@SmatZ>:-p
19:08<[wito]>My point is that there is just something special about a tunnel coming out of a cliff about half-way up, barreling over a bridge and disappearing into another cliff across a gulley
19:10<[wito]>also, would it be possible for industries other than oilrigs to produce "neutral" stations?
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19:12<[wito]>(Think luxury hotel with a helipad on the roof, or gas station with built in bus stops
19:12<SpComb>stations for trees
19:14<[wito]>what?
19:14<[wito]>No
19:14<[wito]>That's silly
19:14<[wito]>stations that aren't owned by any player
19:15<[wito]>bah
19:15<[wito]>good night
19:17<SpComb>no, you see, each tree could have it's own station
19:18<SpComb>*its
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause>i have never ever seen a gas station including a bus stop
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19:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15625 /trunk/src/string.cpp: -Codechange: remove unneeded assert
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20:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15626 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#2698]: UTF8 string handling could cause buffer overruns.
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22:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15627 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Documentation: Add two Doxygen strings (Alberth).
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22:09<@Belugas>[18:41] <Yexo> [wito]: next suggestions: also build stations automatically, next suggestions: press a button and let the game play itself <------ Yexo is now officially a dev in all its glory!! :D
22:09<@Belugas>WELCOME HOME MY FRIEND!!
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 06 00:00:35 2009