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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-08

---Logopened Sun Mar 08 00:00:40 2009
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01:53<Alberth>good morning
01:54*Alberth is teaching vim some manners
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03:40<lstor>Alberth: Isn't vim well-mannered and respectful enough as it is?
03:40<lstor>It even says "Don't panic" in large, friendly letters if you say :help!
03:40<Alberth>depends on your requirements :)
03:41<Alberth>I code in 2 C++ projects, each with its own code style, and I want vim to switch code style depending on the dir I am in.
03:41<Alberth>I convinced it to do so now.
03:41<Alberth>(try that with most other editors :D )
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05:14<@SmatZ>hello Wolf01
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05:15<Pitel>Why doesn't work? (Ubuntu 8.10, openttd 0.7.0-beta1) Playing gms with aplaymidi itself works.
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05:21<@Rubidium>the extmidi command must be set using -m extmidi:cmd=/usr/bin/aplaymidi I think
05:25<Pitel>Rubidium: thanks, it works now :)
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05:59<@petern>or set in the config :o
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06:50<taisteluorava>hello, is there any way to get daylenght patch to wotk in 0.7.0 beta?
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07:02<Alberth>taisteluorava: yes, update the patch to the new revision
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07:15<taisteluorava>how i can do that? i have installed 0.7.0beta now
07:15<taisteluorava>you mean Daylength Patch [12/09/2008] Compatibility: r14293 work with 0.7.0?
07:18<Alberth>You take the source of 0.7.0beta, and the latest version of the day-length patch. Merge the patch into the source, and compile the source to a binary. Voila, one 0.7.0beta with daylength patch.
07:19<Alberth>Note that 'patch' here means 'source patch', the original meaning of the word.
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07:19<taisteluorava>i need some kinda programming skills? ^^
07:19<Alberth>at least you need to compile the code.
07:19<taisteluorava>have some1 already done that?
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07:21<Alberth>No idea, I never use that patch. The place to look would be in the Daylength topic in the forums.
07:21<Alberth>Note that such a patched version will not work in multi-player in general
07:21<Alberth>(unless everybody agrees to have that version too)
07:22<@Rubidium>also loading other savegames is far from guaranteed then
07:22<taisteluorava>ok, se there is no idea use it now, better wait when it get intergradet with openTTD?
07:22<Alberth>FYI: 0.7.0beta1 is revision 15504
07:24<Alberth>I don't know whether it will ever get integrated. I kind of doubt it given the huge impact. However I am not a dev, so I may be wrong.
07:26<@Rubidium>maybe when it's done right it'd have a chance, but not when it totally wrecks the economy
07:27<Alberth>ah, didn't think of that. I was more concerned about multi-player compability.
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07:29<@Rubidium>what would be MP incompatibly about it?
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07:32<Alberth>Rubidium: different people wanting different speeds.
07:32<@Rubidium>that's like different people wanting to play different climates
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07:33<@Rubidium>it's something that'll be determined by the server, like ALL other game influencing settings
07:33<Alberth>wouldn't that be fun? :) But you are right, it should be a server setting
07:33<@SmatZ>it definitaly has to be a server setting :-p
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07:35<yorick>it also breaks the gui dayly loops
07:35<taisteluorava>"- Server side setting so it can be used in multiplayer.
07:35<taisteluorava>- Setting can be changed anytime during a game also during multiplayer with rcon command."
07:36<Alberth>yorick: thay may become really 'daily' :P
07:36<taisteluorava>so if i understand correctly, its only server which can change daylenght speed, so clients can not affect to that
07:37<@SmatZ>most likely :)
07:37<taisteluorava>but does clients have this patch too?
07:37<@SmatZ>it should work this way unless it's broken
07:38<Alberth>taisteluorava: everybody must use exactly the same version in MP
07:38<@SmatZ>apart from client-side patches...
07:39<@SmatZ>that don't influence gameplay
07:40<Alberth>Wasn't there a dev recently, that said that all settings influence gameplay? :P
07:41<taisteluorava>and is there "build in" ranking system or it some kinda server addon?
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07:41<yorick>console needs linewrappings :/
07:42<Alberth>taisteluorava: not sure what you are referring to. Is it some MP feature? (I never play MP)
07:43<@SmatZ>Alberth: true :) I just can't find the right words for that... maybe ... "patches that change only the feeling from game, but not the internal logic"?
07:43<yorick>SmatZ: patches that do not influence network traffic in any fatal way
07:44<Alberth>SmatZ: we make all windows red for that warm fuzzy feeling :) But I understand what you mean, all patches that only modify how it looks
07:45<yorick>like the copy-paste patch, you mean
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08:27<yorick>the connect console command is broken, it checks IsValidCompanyID before connecting to the server
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08:33<Alberth>And we're back, one keyboard down, two to go
08:34<frosch123>coffee? tea?
08:34<Alberth>coffee (black luckily)
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09:36<Bennythen00b>Where does the developers hang out? Is it here?
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09:37<Bennythen00b>Is there anyone here now?
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09:42<+glx>why do people don't ask their questions instead asking if devs are here?
09:43<@SmatZ> he doesn't seem to be very smart
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10:02<Alberth>shh, this is the first time he is so close to the real developers, let him enjoy the moment.
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10:14<smeding>SmatZ, he *did* ask
10:14<smeding>it's just that his question was "what?"
10:16<Singaporekid>hello can i ask a question
10:17<@SmatZ>smeding: now it makes sense :-p
10:17<@SmatZ>Singaporekid: no
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10:18<frosch123>please direct complains directly to DorpsGek. he has an ear for everyone
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10:20<pavel1269>wasnt he DorpSek?
10:21<yorick>DorpsGek is the village(channel) idiot ;)
10:21<Alberth>SmatZ: the right response was "yes, you just did"
10:22<pavel1269>but, he used to DorpSek, i am almost sure :-)
10:22<thingwath>so the correct version is "can I have two questions?"
10:22<yorick>pavel1269: he was never DropSek
10:22<yorick>or DorpSek
10:22<Alberth>anybody that smart will simply start asking the second question :)
10:23<yorick>DorpsGek means village idiot in dutch =
10:23<@Rubidium>pavel1269: DorpsGek has never been known as DorpSek
10:24<pavel1269>Rubidium: i am sure, that he had another name :-)
10:25<pavel1269>yorick: ty
10:25<@Rubidium>pavel1269: please state the date + time + timezone where the bot was called differently
10:26<pavel1269>i dont have logs :-)
10:26<yorick>meh :/
10:27<@Rubidium>my few years of logging only show 3 lines with that name
10:28<@Rubidium>of which two are yours and one is mine
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10:36<energetic>AlbertH: nice widget explanation
10:37<frosch123>petern: <- any concerns from you?
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10:38<Alberth>energetic: tnx
10:39<Alberth>energetic: at least it is a LOT smaller as first patch than the previous attempt. The route to the final target will however be longer most likely.
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10:42<energetic>one question however (I only skimmed through the pdf atm):
10:43<energetic>I can use nested widgets into new patches only when I combine it with yours, isnt it?
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10:44<Alberth>until it is integrated in trunk, yes.
10:44<Alberth>You could use it as a generator though, define it in the nested widget parts, and print out the resulting widget array
10:45<yorick>energetic: you're on the patch tour?
10:45<energetic>somehting bigger :)
10:45<Alberth>energetic: well, I have about 40 windows that need to be nestified :D
10:46<energetic>Kurt anounced to stop his Kurts Hard Goal servers, OHG is a re-creation of his idea (for now:blatant copy of his work using 07 base)
10:46<energetic>The reason I am into widgets/patching ottd code is because I want to add/change competition functionality
10:46<yorick>yay, less competition :p
10:47*yorick is also working on a patch that could be used for recreating the kurt servers
10:47<energetic>So I was busy doing three patches, two finalized, now working on a gamerserver
10:48<energetic>OHG=community effort to accomplish this
10:48<yorick>you know about my chat command implementation?
10:48<energetic>OHG started just friday
10:48<energetic>Maybe you can add infoonto our wiki?
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11:19<energetic>Alberth: I was/am working on the town window
11:19<energetic>adding filter+sorting
11:19<energetic>so that makes it 39 :)
11:20<energetic>--> v
11:20<Alberth>could you please post it at my topic, that way it does not get lost.
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11:21<Alberth>oh the town vs city indication isn't it?
11:21<energetic>by the way: you are planning to redesign the interface of ottd using nested widgets...?
11:22<energetic>yes, and I am adding more stuff to it
11:22<Alberth>for now I'd be extremely happy already just to get it in trunk without any external changes.
11:23<energetic>I read a bit more of it thouroughly now, it seems well thought
11:23<Alberth>just the nested widget parts array would be sufficient for posting I think
11:23<energetic> have some small things, i will shoot on you in the topic
11:23<energetic>btw, maybe make the pdf into wiki
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11:24<Alberth>first stuff in trunk, until then everything is running ahead
11:25<Alberth>but in the FS are the sources
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11:26<Alberth>not sure whether you can get the pictures out cleanly, but I can generate them again, in many formats (all output formats of xfig :) )
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12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15643 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Fix [FS#2711]: be more strict with zeroing unused map array bits
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12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15644 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2710]: closing a network connection twice in the case that sending packets starts failing while disconnecting
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12:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15645 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r12924)[FS#2612]: Add an EngineOverrideManager to give the term 'compatible newgrf' again some sense and to not crash because of trivial changes.
12:53<@petern>pah, that's a feature, not a fix
12:55<frosch123>-Feature: Do not crash.
12:56<@petern>-Feature: Be lenient on users who do stupid things
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13:07<energetic>It came to my attention that in the future, the so-called sync-check will be changed to be server-side. This is correct?
13:09<yorick>petern: sync seed check at the server, so clients send their seed to the server instead of the opposite
13:10<@petern>is this correct? heh
13:11<energetic>in other words: do plans exist for this
13:11<+glx>may I ask why?
13:11-!-orudge is now known as COCKFACE
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13:11<yorick>because they want to use something similar to that python bot I worked on
13:11*frosch123 senss trouble in #tycoon
13:14<energetic>As i said earlier, we are making a goalserver implamentation. Right now, we are loking into the various ways of how to get this done. One of the solutions mentioned would be a python implementation clientside, which would need to maintain the clientside state, if the syn check would be implemented server-side
13:14<energetic>ie a bot connecting to a server
13:14<@petern> < pom te pom, unless there's a better way for those uint32s..
13:15<energetic>if it is indeed the case that the sybc check would go serverside, the ython bot implementation would fail hooribly
13:17<@petern>why does it matter where a sync check is? a desync is a desync...
13:17<SpComb>non-official clients would need to maintain a random seed?
13:18<SpComb>or do spectators do sync checks?
13:19<@petern>all clients do
13:19<SpComb>would be fun if spectators didn't
13:19<SpComb>then you could introduce random errors and see what interesting things happen
13:19<@petern>hilarious fun
13:19<@petern>especially now they can switch companies at will
13:19<yorick>people get randomly kicked
13:19<yorick>that's what happens :p
13:19<SpComb>a spectator can't change anything
13:20<yorick>petern: because python can't maintain a sync check
13:20<energetic>(unless you implement the complete state in the bot)
13:20<SpComb>does the game state feed back into the RNG?
13:21<energetic>which is kinda the point in not doing that :)
13:21<SpComb>sync check is only the random seed, no?
13:21<Mark>Is there any Grf that allows railroads to be combined with roads? (Like tramways, but with singletrack for railroads)
13:21<+michi_cc>petern: if (NeedRailTypeConversion()) { in AfterLoadLabelMaps() was not good enough? :)
13:22<yorick>he spoke!
13:22<@petern>michi_cc: currently yes
13:22<energetic>Mark -> level crossings :D
13:23<Mark>Yeah, not like that though ;)
13:23<@petern>Mark, no.
13:23<Mark>Mkay, thanks anyway :)
13:24<Mark>Is there a Grf for arrow guage then? (891mm)
13:25<@petern>yes, although i can't gaurantee it's eactly 891mm
13:25<+michi_cc>petern: okay, I don't know what else you've planned, it's just looking a bit strange in that patch
13:25<Mark>Mkay, URL? :)
13:25<@petern>yorick: why does python need to maintain a sync check
13:25<yorick>petern: if the sync seed check is moved to the server, clients are expected to send their seed, and a python client can't
13:26<Ammler>Mark, hehe just realized, you stole the nick of an old openttd player. ;-)
13:26<@petern>then i'm all for moving it server side, in the interests of extra security
13:27<@petern>"Mark" is hardly an obscure name
13:27<SpComb>petern is against OpenTTD as an open platform!
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13:27<@petern>SpComb, they're welcome to maintain the game state in python
13:27<Mark>Ammler: hmm, have noticed that :P
13:27<SpComb>petern: easy to say that
13:27<frosch123>petern: why don't you just use CH_ARRAY and read uint32 ?
13:27<Mark>I usually use Markk, but this was a sec. nick and I liked it :)
13:27<@petern>frosch123: how?
13:28<Ammler>Mark: I was wondering, why he ask such obvious things.
13:28<frosch123>just like the engine data or newgrf config is stored?
13:28<yorick>18:26 < SpComb> petern is against OpenTTD as an open platform!
13:28<yorick>spread the word
13:28<@petern>into a local variable?
13:28<@Rubidium>shouldn't line 49 and 51 of railtypemap2.diff be merged?
13:29<@Rubidium>and nice that it mentions road types also ;)
13:30<frosch123>static std::map<EngineID, Engine> _temp_engine; <- just like that?
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13:30<@petern>not exactly a local var :o
13:30<frosch123>but a local var should also work
13:31<energetic>so the question remains: is it the planning to eventually implement the sync check server-side?
13:32*petern removes the road type mention, as that's pretty much the only 'code' for it so far ;p
13:32<@SmatZ>for a while I thought petern commited his roadtypes / railtypes stuff :-)
13:37<Sacro>sigh, can i be arsed to code a singly linked list
13:38<+glx>that's easy
13:38<+glx>double linked is harder
13:39<Sacro>Yeah true
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14:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15646 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Be lenient on users who do stupid things like loading newgrfs statically, which modify engine names, while dynamic_engines is enabled or the to be modified engine is not (yet) present.
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14:21<energetic>Several ways of implementing a "goalserver" are available. Those are: 1. using stdin and stdout (like autopilot) and implement custom commands, 2. patch ottenttd and add functionality to c++ trunk, 3. write a bot that controls a server instance, 4. implement squirrel API commands into trunk and write a serverbot in squirrel. My questions here are: 1. what do you think is the 'best solution' in relation to the openttd codebase, and why, and
14:21<energetic>other ways did I not mention?
14:22<Yexo>How is 3. different from 1. or 2.?
14:23<Yexo>depending on how complex your goals are I think the easiest is to change the c++ code a bit to check for them, and print something to the console if they are reached. (so a combination of 2. and 1.)
14:28<energetic>not really, 3 is a more generic description
14:28<energetic>except 2 is meant to be c++ patches on openttd only
14:28<energetic>3 is having two apps: openntd fork+server code
14:30<energetic>full user management, full ottd game engine access, webinterface
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15647 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-08 18:32:50
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 fixed, 20 changed by khaloofah (22)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changed by Yexo (4)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 3 fixed by WhiteRabbit (3)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed, 1 changed by jpx_ (2)
14:38<|Japa|>as of 8 minutes ago, I'm 22
14:40<energetic>grtz. -> exact birth time or midnight?
14:41<SpComb>did you know that the Chinese (and other asians) count their age from the time of conception, rather than physical birth?
14:41<Sacro>ooh, squelchy
14:42<Sacro>when they did the nasty in the pasty
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14:47<SpComb>it might be a bit more akward to figure out your exact birth-minute with that reckoning
14:47<frosch123>only a matter of a proper diary
14:48<Prof_Frink>SpComb: Depends how regular your milkman is
14:49<Sacro>he can certainly keep a good rhythm going
14:50<thingwath>I would rather count remaining time, not age.
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14:56<energetic> 4. implement squirrel API commands into trunk and write a serverbot in squirrel. -> and add a squirrel mysql plugin. Make squirrel a scripting language for servers so anyone can create their own KHG, OHG, whatever server they have in mind :)
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15:33<@petern>KHG? OHG?
15:34<Felicitus>petern: kurt's hard goal and ottd hard goal
15:34<@petern>well nobody else knows or uses your acronyms
15:34<@petern>or, indeed, abbreviations
15:34<energetic>yes sorry
15:35<@petern>+remember :o
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16:50<el_en>waiter, there's a bjarni in the soup!
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16:58<murr4y>it's for extra spice :)
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17:02<@Bjarni><el_en> waiter, there's a bjarni in the soup! <-- you want a black soup?
17:02<@Bjarni>I managed to get sod on my face the other day. I noticed in a mirror hours after it arrived :s
17:03<@petern>sod, eh?
17:04<Prof_Frink>Mr S. Baldrick
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17:29<@Bjarni><petern> sod, eh? <-- yeah... I partly opened the fireplace and looked into the chimney
17:29<@Bjarni>fixing the issue we had with draft in the chimney
17:30<@petern>what is 'sod' in bjarnish?
17:32<Prof_Frink>Bjarni is a small yellow hand puppet.
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17:34<Wolf01>a yellow Elmo
17:35<@Bjarni>I have seen the word "sod" being used about the black stuff in chimneys
17:35<@Bjarni>however right now I can't even find a name for it in English
17:35<@Bjarni>sod or anything else :s
17:35<@Bjarni>ash is burned stuff
17:35<@Bjarni>I'm talking about the unburned sticky powder
17:35<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: No... Sooty.
17:35<@Bjarni>which is actually burnable
17:36<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: The word is "soot".
17:36<@Bjarni>meaning if you treat your fireplace incorrectly you can put fire on it on the inside of the chimney
17:36<@Bjarni>and houses have been burned to the ground due to this
17:36<Prof_Frink>You need Sooty's friend, Sweep.
17:37<@Bjarni>actually we had a visit from a chimney sweep like a week ago
17:37<Wolf01>really? the chimney passes through my bedroom... luckily the winter is about to end
17:38<@Bjarni><Wolf01> really? the chimney passes through my bedroom... luckily the winter is about to end <-- hehe. It's not a high risk so I guess I scared you too much
17:39<@Bjarni>however you can get issues if you burn incorrectly. This means putting stuff like plastic is not only bad for the environment, it's also dangerous for your house
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17:40<@Bjarni>but burning pure dried wood at a high temperature with enough air will make this risk close to not there at all
17:40<@Bjarni>but you have to get a visit from a chimney sweep once or twice a year
17:41<@Bjarni> <-- this is what I get when I searched for soot. I would have grounded that truck right away since either it's not supposed to do that or even worse: the engine has a design flaw
17:43<@Bjarni>either way that smoke shouldn't be allowed (and might in fact be illegal)
17:45<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: That truck looks american.
17:45<Prof_Frink>So yeah, the engine has a design flaw.
17:49<@Bjarni>I wonder about America and diesel engines
17:49<@Bjarni>I mean more than once the GM diesel locomotives here have given me a headache
17:50<@Bjarni>once one of them made me vomit D:
17:50<@Bjarni>it just passed by at high speed but it was a foggy morning and the exhaust was stuck in the air and I ended up vomiting
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17:50<@SmatZ>"America" and "diesel truck"?
17:52<@Bjarni>however at the same time I didn't even feel bad when I started our Danish designed and built locomotive.... indoor
17:54<@Bjarni>I guess I would have died if it were one of those GMs
17:55<MrFrans>Any suggestions on a good tar archiver for windows?
17:55<@Bjarni>(it goes without saying that there were ventilation to get fresh air, but it were somewhat inefficient)
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17:56<@Bjarni>is windows able to handle tar correctly?
17:56<Prof_Frink>MrFrans: 7zip
17:56<MrFrans>Cool thanks.
17:56<@Bjarni>I mean can windows even handle tar at all without 3rd party software?
17:56<KingJ>Only ZIP
17:57<Prof_Frink>but 7zip seems to handle any archives I throw at it at work
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17:57<@Bjarni>I don't think I have a problem with anything except rar before I installed anything 3rd party
17:58<Wolf01>windows is not able to handle filenames which start with . lpt com and aux, how do you can think about a "can windows handle x correctly?" question?
17:58<@Bjarni>heh. Good point
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18:00*Rubidium wonders whether wubi qualifies as a tar archiver 'for windows'
18:01<taisteluorava>is there any easy way to play with openGFX graphics without those blackbox, any way to get original graphics over black box's, so both graphics is combinated
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18:02<Prof_Frink>Sacro: It's dead.
18:02<Sacro>no, what i meant was, why not use 'tar'
18:03<Yexo>taisteluorava: no, unless you fix those grf files yourself
18:04<MrFrans>That worked Prof_Frink, eventhough openttd throws a error about the grf being missing or corrupt, the grf is loaded.
18:05<taisteluorava>will that openGFX get finished someday, or is 32bit graphic coming over it?
18:05<Yexo>taisteluorava: I hope it'll get finished, as you still need valid 8bpp graphics before you can use 32bpp graphics (black boxes are valid though)
18:06<Sacro>OH NOES D:
18:07<Prof_Frink>I loved ilovehorses, best of all the rickroll-esque sites.
18:07<taisteluorava>ok, thx yexo
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18:09<Wolf01>I once found a nice gif with one busty girl shown for 1 second and then Rick Astley singing, I wanted to show it to Sacro but I lost it :(
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18:16<+glx><Prof_Frink> but 7zip seems to handle any archives I throw at it at work <-- 7zip can even open some dmg
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18:20<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I was looking into @openttd bugs, and see if Flyspray had its XMLRPC server back already .. but it appears FlySpray is .. well .. a bit dead :d
18:21<@Rubidium>I already noticed that
18:21<TrueBrain>I might be a bit late with that conclusion, I know ;)
18:21<@Rubidium>but there has been like one commit this year
18:22<TrueBrain>and they do close bugs on their bug-tracker! :p
18:22<@Rubidium>with won't fix or so?
18:23<TrueBrain>yup :p
18:23<TrueBrain>not a bug even
18:23<TrueBrain>so it might be a good idea to start looking for any kind of other bugtracker ..
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18:25<NukeBuster>are there known to be compile issues with r15647(today's nightly)
18:25<TrueBrain>did the nightly compile for all targets? :p
18:25<@Rubidium>yeah, broken compilers create broken code ;)
18:25<@Rubidium>but that's with almost all versions of OpenTTD ;)
18:25<NukeBuster>so my compiler is broken :P
18:26<@Bjarni>I guess you nuked your compiler then :P
18:26<NukeBuster>what version of gcc should openttd be compiled with then?
18:26<NukeBuster>i have been able to compile openttd before without problems...
18:26<TrueBrain>not < 2.95.3 :p
18:27<@Rubidium>not branches/lto
18:27<TrueBrain>not the one with cxx support
18:27<TrueBrain>one = ones
18:28<NukeBuster>hmm, I have 4.1.2
18:29<@Rubidium>TrueBrain, about FS: it's working without any problems right now so I don't see a reason to use another tracker and keep this one too to not lose the current 'bugs'
18:30<@Rubidium>NukeBuster: what OS etc. are you using?
18:30<TrueBrain>Rubidium: true, I just hope any exploits stay away ;)
18:31<NukeBuster>I'm running CentOS 5.2
18:31<NukeBuster>the errers i'm getting
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18:32<@Rubidium>ieuw... half-translated error messages
18:32<NukeBuster>fout == error
18:32<TrueBrain>NukeBuster: he knows .. believe me he does :p
18:34<NukeBuster>am I missing a new dependency?
18:34<@Rubidium>NukeBuster: looks like your compiler is broken
18:34<@Rubidium>_switch_mode REALLY is defined
18:35<NukeBuster>hmm... I haven't had issues with openttd before...
18:35<@Rubidium>unless... maybe... your makedepend is acting up
18:35<@Rubidium>try a make clean all
18:35<TrueBrain>always the way to success ... ;)
18:35<NukeBuster>ok, i'll try that
18:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I would like to update trac to 0.11 .. but I am unsure what manual changes we made :p
18:37<TrueBrain>(we really had a lack of documentation there :p)
18:37<@Rubidium>powered by leaseweb in some template and the config files were modified
18:38<TrueBrain>also what pages are viewable and shit ..
18:39<@Rubidium>that was the config file IIRC
18:39<TrueBrain>and the last question of the day: has there ever be any need to revive the maillist? (patch / dev / user)
18:39*Rubidium hasn't missed it
18:39<Sacro>i have :(
18:40<TrueBrain>of course you have Sacro :p
18:40<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I will be trying to install the new trac tomorrow or so .. I have a few idea to check if we modified the source or not ;)
18:40<@Bjarni>Sacro: the history goes that whenever somebody used it, nobody replied
18:41<@Bjarni>so if we should use it now, we should assign useful people to reply to it
18:41<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: good luck and have fun
18:41<TrueBrain>fun ... FUN?! :p
18:41<@Bjarni>installing strange software is always great fun
18:41<@Rubidium>debugging stuff without access to hardware is even more fun ;)
18:41<+glx>indeed :)
18:42<TrueBrain>have a failing network connection is also fun :p
18:42<TrueBrain>although the last few nights it seems to go fine ... :p
18:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium: anyway, I also want to look into updating all the other software (mercurial, git, svn) .. we are getting a bit out-of-date ;)
18:42<+glx>having network in pearpc is even more fun
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18:42<TrueBrain>just disable the signals for 10.3.9, and be done :p
18:43<TrueBrain>#ifdef __APPLE__\n#define signal(a) if (MacOSXAtLeast(10, 4, 0)) signal(a)\n#endif
18:44<TrueBrain>problem solved! :p
18:44<TrueBrain>well, maybe 'a' should be 'a, b', but that are just details :p
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18:46<@Rubidium> not like that?
18:46<TrueBrain>I can do it in 3 lines :p
18:47<@Rubidium>I can do it in 2 lines of which 1 is a whiteline ;)
18:47<TrueBrain>I assumed the #ifdef was required ;)
18:48<@Bjarni>well... I did it quickly to get something to test. Like a proof of concept. I never intended to commit it like that
18:48<@Rubidium>wrong assumption for os/macosx/macos.h
18:48<@Bjarni>it would at least need comments
18:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: tnx for pointing that out ;)
18:48<TrueBrain>Bjarni: it is just overkill ;)
18:48<TrueBrain>a complete function what an #define can do on its own ;)
18:49<TrueBrain>and in case you need that NULL, make it a ternary ;)
18:50<TrueBrain>MacOSXAtLeast(10, 4, 0) ? signal(a, b) : NULL
18:52-!-goodger [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:52<@Bjarni>that's English for you: there is a word for more or less everything
18:52<@Bjarni>the issue is that the users tend not to know all the words
18:53<TrueBrain>Rubidium: looks nice :)
18:53<TrueBrain>Bjarni: clearly you haven't been long enough in this channel ... :p
18:54<TrueBrain>I love the comments Rubidium :p
18:54<@Bjarni>yeah it's nice comments
18:54<@Bjarni>I just wonder what will happen when somebody uses signals for something else
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18:55<@Rubidium>then crash handling'll fail for 10.3.9
18:55<TrueBrain>that seems obvious :)
18:55<@Bjarni>not my problem then :P
18:55<TrueBrain>signals can never be mandatory anyway :)
18:56<@Bjarni>unless somebody really wants to use 10.3.9 and pays me for fixing the issue
18:56<TrueBrain>I don't think there is enough money in the world
18:57<@Bjarni>there is
18:57<@Bjarni>but you don't have them :P
18:57<TrueBrain>no living human has ..
18:57<@Bjarni>I disagree
18:57<+glx>Bjarni: it's even impossible to compile something for 10.3.9 on 10.3.9 ;)
18:57<TrueBrain>I think you need to patch OSX :p
18:58<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: why can't signals be mandatory?
18:58<@Bjarni>if I get enough money then I can pay Apple to fix OSX if needed
18:58<@Rubidium>It's in the C++ specs
18:58<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I meant it in the way: that your code depends on SIGABRT or something :p
18:59<TrueBrain>well .. SIGHUP1 might be useful :p
18:59<TrueBrain>does windows understand that? :)
18:59<+glx>I guess it's just because we use 10.4u SDK to compile for 10.3.9
18:59<TrueBrain>glx: enough #ifdefs should fix that ;)
19:00<TrueBrain>just ... the version detection would need to be forced to a value I guess ;) :p
19:00<TrueBrain>(when compiling on 10.3.9 of course :p)
19:01<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: only SIGABRT, FPE, ILL, INT, SEGV and TERM are defined by the C standard (and thus C++ as it refers explicitly to the C standard for signals)
19:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: too bad
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19:01<TrueBrain>glx: btw, what suprises me, is that there are no bug reports about it .. clearly nobody tries it and expects it to work ;)
19:02<+glx>the biggest surprise was a complaint about "broken" nightly on 10.3.9 two months after the commit ;)
19:02<TrueBrain>wasn't 0.7.0-beta1 which triggered the report to be send? :p
19:02<@Bjarni>I think it's more like if people know how to compile they wouldn't use 10.3.9 anymore
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19:02<TrueBrain>but yeah :) Clearly Apple did a nice job getting 10.3 replaced ;)
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19:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15648 /trunk/src/os/macosx/macos.h: -Fix (r14773): hack around an OSX stupidity in < 10.4 w.r.t. signals by not having any signal handling support for OSX < 10.4. Thanks to PearPC and TrueBrain's OSX compiler.
19:07<TrueBrain>cool! I made a OSX compiler! :)
19:07<TrueBrain>tnx nevertheless ;)
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19:09<TrueBrain>almost 1000 revisions between bug and fix
19:09<TrueBrain>how n ice :p
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19:13<TrueBrain>lobster: +2 (Funny) (quit message)
19:14<lobster>why thank you
19:14<+glx>lol, nice one
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20:04<Sacro>Dr_B_Ching: you want !password
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20:17<Dr_B_Ching>Sacro: sorry - wrong window :( *blush*
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21:30<goodger>night Belugas
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23:59<Audigex>hey guys
---Logclosed Mon Mar 09 00:00:41 2009