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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-09

---Logopened Mon Mar 09 00:00:41 2009
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03:00<dihedral>congrats on fixing the stupid os x issue
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03:03<goodger>someone started a fire in cupertino? :S
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03:44*petern smirks at xkcd
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04:31<dihedral>i always think of CyberTinnitus
04:37*petern rings in dihedral's ear
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05:35<dihedral>setting the map_x and map_y settings from 10 to 9 reduces the leak (or what some people think might be a leak) :-P
05:36<@petern>oh, reduces
05:36<@petern>not removes
05:36<dihedral>e.g. in my case, out of memory ocures about 3 hours (plus/minus)
05:36<@petern>my map size is 8 x 9
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05:36<@petern>do you have autosave on?
05:36<@petern>(does turning that off stop it?)
05:36*petern clutches at straws
05:37<planetmaker>petern: he has it on afaik.
05:37<dihedral>i save with autopilot
05:37<dihedral>every 20 mins
05:37<dihedral>you really think?
05:37<dihedral>planetmaker !! i just answered!
05:37<planetmaker>Because the game continues sort-of where it was prior to a crash
05:37<planetmaker>sorry dih :)
05:38<dihedral>yes, what may appear and what is the case aint always the same ^^
05:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15649 /trunk/src/core/alloc_type.hpp: -Fix (r15556): don't unnecessarily reallocate
05:38<@petern>it's automatically saving...
05:38<planetmaker>well, then it's definitely not an autosave thingy :)
05:38<planetmaker>but still may be a save thingy
05:38<dihedral>ap+ catches kill signals, and for one of those signals ap+ issues a save command on the console
05:39<dihedral>i can turn it off later today
05:40*petern smirks at 15649
05:42<@Rubidium>bah... yapf is allocating so often that you can't quite see other allocates :(
05:45<@petern>hmm, and freeing?
05:46<@Rubidium>that I'm not tracking
05:46<@petern>i always wondered what managed its cache :p
05:50<@petern>while doing the clean up, i also noticed that a lot of it is static methods and variables hidden in classes
05:50<@petern>never really bothered looking before
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05:59<@Rubidium> <- for when you want to look at the allocate behaviour
06:02<dihedral>Rubidium: how about a console command for dedicated servers ;-)
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06:04<@Belugas>"Nintendo,Nintendo... bring a juice for dedicated server1. Hurry up"
06:04<@Belugas>a command
06:05<@Rubidium>Belugas: go back to bed, it's like 6 o'clock in the morning
06:05<@Belugas>yup it is
06:06<@Belugas>i was not able to get out of bed, so my wife hit the shower before me
06:06<@Belugas>and now, i'm waiting
06:06<@Belugas>ho... there she goes!
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06:18<@Rubidium>@calc 5*60/2.22/30
06:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 4.5045045045
06:43<welshdragon>what a bizarre calculation Rubidium
06:49<[wito]>Is cargodest likely to make it into trunk before 0.7.0?
06:49<dihedral>search the forums for that answer
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07:00<welshdragon>dihedral: very helpful
07:01<@Rubidium>bizarre? 5 minutes * 60 seconds a minute / 2.22 seconds a day / 30 days a month -> 5 minutes is ~ 4.5 months
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07:09<@petern>did we ever discover why our ticks are 30ms instead of 27ms?
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07:10<@Rubidium>not that I am aware of
07:10<@petern>(if that is even the case, heh)
07:10*petern applies Rubidium's patch
07:21<@petern>heh, warnings in blob :o
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07:23<TrueBrain>Hello :)
07:23*dihedral welcomes the TrueBrain
07:23<TrueBrain>I just updated most of's software; please let me know if there are any (adnormal) glitches :)
07:24<TrueBrain>(I still need to do git, hg and trac, but .. I am afraid!!! :p)
07:29<TrueBrain>Rubidium: 'powered by leaseweb' was not in the Mercurial templates :p
07:29<TrueBrain>neither in git ...
07:29<@petern>powered by dead animals
07:29<TrueBrain>or maybe it was, but debian was so nice to overwrite them
07:30<TrueBrain>debian, or 'apt' / 'aptitude' really sucks
07:30<TrueBrain>no overview, no clear information why something is kept back, .....
07:30<@petern>not really
07:30<TrueBrain>idiotic software
07:30<@petern>stuff is kept back due to dependencies
07:30<@petern>which it tells you about
07:30<@Rubidium>it works fine as long as you don't customise stuff ;)
07:30<TrueBrain>petern: haha, you would think .. you know what it told me? (for 10% of the packages)
07:30<TrueBrain>This packages is held back due the following dependencies:
07:31<@petern>just dist-upgrade it :p
07:31<@Rubidium>does the apt run lenny or testing?
07:31<TrueBrain>but anyway .. it just overwritten some files ... how nice ... how lovely ...
07:32<@petern> calloc 1300 bytes at: /lib/i686/cmov/ [0xb7d38455]
07:32<@petern>that's less useful :o
07:32<@petern> calloc 2880 bytes at: /lib/i686/cmov/ [0xb7d38455]
07:32<@Rubidium>make a debug build
07:32<@petern>it is
07:32<@petern>(level 1)
07:33<@Rubidium>then uncomment the strstr(... "(")
07:33<@Rubidium>and you'll get openttd [0xdeadbeef]
07:33<@Rubidium>oh ;)
07:33<@Rubidium>do a LDFLAGS="-rdynamic" ;)
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07:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: do you remember where the gitweb templates are located?
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07:43<@Rubidium>sadly enough I don't
07:46<@petern> malloc 2883592 bytes at: bin/openttd(_ZN20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfRailNodeTI20CYapfNodeKeyTrackDirELi12ELi16EE13CreateNewNodeEv+0x69) [0x82eab49]
07:46<@petern>that's a lot
07:46<TrueBrain>C++ at work ....
07:47<@petern>well the symbol, yes, but it's just listing the parameters, heh
07:47<@petern>not a huge problem
07:47<TrueBrain>it always makes me smile
07:47<TrueBrain>so no, not a problem ;)
07:48<@petern>i have no idea what YAPF stores in that 2.8MB node list...
07:48<@petern>seems excessive for a short line
07:48<TrueBrain>fix it ;)
07:51<TrueBrain>okay, git and hg fixed again ..
07:51<TrueBrain>that leaves track .....
07:53<Ammler>Hello TrueBrain, did you ever take a look on Multirepo Branch of trac?
07:54<Ammler>just wondering, but that might mean, no :-)
07:55<TrueBrain>very clear .. tnx for this conversation ..
07:55<TrueBrain>(people are getting more and more weird :p)
07:55<Ammler>well, I was never something else, I guess.
07:57<TrueBrain>I remember I tried to talk some sanity into Moriarty yesterday, about not saying to a person: CHECK THIS! But being a bit more ... well .. explaining
07:57<TrueBrain>I guess I should make that a global announcement or something
07:59<@petern>damn, it jumped 8 MB when i wasn't looking :p
07:59<Ammler>TrueBrain: I didn't say, you should check it, I asked if you already did ;-)
07:59<TrueBrain>Ammler: did you ever take a look at NGC-10232?
07:59<Ammler>I have no experience with, I just know there is.
08:00<Ammler>and because we are mixing svn and hg, too.
08:01<@petern>you have no experience with?
08:01<Ammler>it* :P
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08:03<Ammler>(and a lot other things...)
08:04<@petern>of course, it doesn't increase when i'm just watching it
08:04<planetmaker>murphy has always been good at these things, petern
08:08<TrueBrain>somehow revisionlog is gone in trac ... hmm ...
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08:13<@petern>it went up
08:13<@petern>but there's no mention in the alloc log
08:15<@Rubidium>then it isn't done by a Malloc/Calloc/Realloc
08:18<@petern>obviously there's lots of small allocs
08:19<@petern>and this constant 2.8MB alloc from yapf
08:19<@petern>but nothing that screams "i just allocated 8MB"
08:19<@petern>unless at a lower level it's just allocating in chunks of that size
08:19<@Rubidium>new isn't handled by my patch
08:23<@petern>which would be a little tricky i suppose
08:23<@petern>there must be something simple that'll work with LD_PRELOAD...
08:24<@petern>i'll see what happens, heh
08:26<@petern>okay, that logs...
08:30<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I have NO idea where you did the powered by banner in trac last time :p
08:30<TrueBrain>I can't find a template which when altered reflects on the page :(
08:32<@Rubidium>tried /usr/share/pyshared/trac/templates/footer.cs ?
08:32<TrueBrain>I tried header.cs
08:32<@Rubidium>tried restarting trac once you made the change?
08:32<TrueBrain>couldn't detect a change ...
08:33<TrueBrain>nope ...
08:33<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I HTML commented the block left-top now
08:33<TrueBrain>but it is still there ..
08:34<dihedral>does not each project have its own template dir?
08:34<TrueBrain>it does, but if no defined, it should pick the main ..
08:35<@Rubidium>what about theme.html ?
08:36<TrueBrain>Rubidium: after a restart, changing that file has some effect yes
08:37<TrueBrain>k, done
08:38<TrueBrain>Rubidium: only leaves an update for mediawiki
08:39*petern uses ReusableBuffer
08:39<TrueBrain>so now I need a commit to see if everything went as planned ....
08:40<@petern>possibly one soon ;)
08:40<TrueBrain>let me know when there is one ;)
08:45<dihedral>hehe ;-)
08:46<dihedral>if there were a very large cage, i'd possibly keep a petern as pet ^^
08:46<dihedral>petern: can you tell already what's causing the issue?
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08:58<@petern>this is just an aside
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09:07<@petern>TrueBrain: now
09:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15650 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Use a ReusableBuffer for loading NewGRF pseudo-sprites into instead of using malloc()/free() for every single one.
09:07<TrueBrain>darn ...
09:07<@petern>that drops my start up log file from 75MB to 30MB ;)
09:07<TrueBrain>git didn't take up on the commit, and hg fucked up
09:08<@petern>didn't add the svn part
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09:09<TrueBrain>svn: URL 'file:///var/repos/svn/openttd/3rdparty' non-existent in that revision
09:09<TrueBrain>yippie ...
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09:11<dihedral>that was the conversion to hg and git?
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09:11<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the git diff wasn't up-to-date :( :( :(
09:12<TrueBrain>$ git svn rebaseUnable to determine upstream SVN information from working tree history
09:14<@petern>bah, a lot of free(NULL) getting logged too :o
09:14*petern ponders fixing the module
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09:17*petern fixes the module
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09:18<Sacro>zomg lies
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09:20<@petern>maybe i should just try valgrind, heh
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09:20<FauxFaux>You lot are so pro. <3
09:21<FauxFaux>Write, profile, fix.
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09:31*Belugas yawns
09:31*Forked throws a banana at the yawn
09:35*TrueBrain catches the banana and eats it
09:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15651 /trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp: -Codechange: Codestyle and comments.
09:38<TrueBrain>at least mercurial is now doing what it should be doing :)
09:39<Forked>yellow banana tasting like a green one. meh
09:40<TrueBrain>I love green bananas :)
09:40<@petern>green? yuck
09:41<TrueBrain># beep beep beep beep
09:45<@petern>FUCKING IDIOTS
09:45<@petern>"my email's not working, please advise"
09:45<@petern>unfortunately i'm not allowed to say
09:46<Forked>did he or she email you the question? :)
09:47<TrueBrain>petern: I feel your pain ..
09:49<@petern>heh, it jumped 8MB
09:49<@petern>with no clients :D
09:49<@petern>unfortunately i wasn't watching it :p
09:50<@SmatZ>petern: does to log new/delete too?
09:51<@petern>don't think so
09:51<@petern>i'd always assumed new/delete used malloc/free behind the scenes, but i guess not :o
09:52<TrueBrain>petern: overload them to force malloc/free usage ;)
09:53<@SmatZ>you can do new/free (if operator new isn't overriden) - and valgrind detects that :)
09:55<@SmatZ> the code :-p
09:57<@petern>it logs 2 mallocs and 2 frees for that
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10:04<@Belugas>pom te pom
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10:20<@petern>valgrind doesn't say much, harder to see if it's leaked though :o
10:22*Sacro leaks over petern
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10:25*Belugas plucks Sacro's leak with a cactus
10:25*petern wonders why valgrind complains about newgrf_spritegroup.cpp:214 twice
10:26<@petern>Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
10:26<@petern>and which value is uninitialised...
10:27<Zahl>SmatZ: ping
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10:35*glx is trying to compile with _malloc_dbg and friends
10:36<+glx>but the preprocessor doesn't like Queue->Free()
10:36<+glx>it replaces some "free" with "_free_dbg"
10:37<+glx>but of course not all ;)
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11:00<+glx> <-- the output is not easy to understand
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11:03<@SmatZ>Zahl: pong
11:03<Zahl>do you build yourself on windows?
11:04<DASPRiD>`make self` ?
11:04<@SmatZ>I don't have windows here
11:04<Zahl>where's your laptop? :p
11:05<@SmatZ>one meter from me :) but I don't have build environment there
11:05<Zahl>hmm ok
11:05<@SmatZ>like, it's a "company's" laptop, and I am not sure about legal things
11:05<@SmatZ>Zahl: why are you asking?
11:06<Zahl>i might have found something but i need someone to validate
11:06<@Rubidium>I wouldn't build myself on Windows; chances are too high that something breaks compilation, after all... when I was born Windows wasn't invented yet
11:06<@Rubidium>so I doubt there's any Windows support in my source
11:07<Zahl>ok i'll try something different then :>
11:07<@SmatZ>Zahl: try asking glx or michi_cc or Yexo :)
11:07<Zahl>do you know what the nightlies for windows are compiled with?
11:07<Yexo>Zahl: what was the problem?
11:08<@Rubidium>MSVC 2008 for 32/64, mingw for 9x
11:08<Zahl>Yexo: its about the memory issue on windows
11:08<+glx>Zahl: saw my paste ?
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11:08<Zahl>glx: which one?
11:09<Zahl>errr.. :-D
11:10<@SmatZ>glx: are those really leaks? maybe you could try "#define MallocT" instead of "#define malloc" so it prints out where MallocT was called... I haven't seen the diff though :)
11:10<Zahl>i tried a tool named "memory validator" yesterday... it told me something funny
11:10<+glx> <-- I used this to get the output
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11:12<@SmatZ>glx: aha, interesting :)
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11:12<+glx>free -> Free changes are just to allow compilation ;)
11:12<@SmatZ>actually, MallocT<> can't be #defined :-x
11:12<@SmatZ>maybe search & replace...
11:13<@Rubidium>that'll suck
11:13<@Rubidium>you could also play tricks like I did on MallocT
11:14<@Rubidium> <- nasty but effective (with LDFLAGS=-rdynamic)
11:14<@SmatZ>Rubidium: can backtrace() be used to give nicer crash dumps for linux?
11:15<@SmatZ>when -O2 and such is used...
11:16<@Rubidium>unlikely; information about what function is where is probably lost
11:16<@petern>==16051== LEAK SUMMARY:
11:16<@petern>==16051== definitely lost: 25 bytes in 4 blocks.
11:16<@petern>==16051== possibly lost: 720 bytes in 5 blocks.
11:16<@petern>==16051== still reachable: 7,372,020 bytes in 18,452 blocks.
11:16<@petern>==16051== suppressed: 0 bytes in 0 blocks.
11:17<@SmatZ>petern: nothing new I am afraid
11:17<+glx>hmm I could try visual leak detector
11:18<@petern>well, i had a 3GB virtual size after running a server for 2 weeks
11:18<@petern>maybe i should just give it more time
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11:18<@Rubidium>definitely lost is probably in SDL's init
11:19<@SmatZ>Rubidium: or that videodriver, soundriver, blitter variables in ttd_main()
11:19<@SmatZ>it can as well be memory that is allocated but freed at exit so it is not marked as leak...
11:20<@petern>yes, my output shows no leaks, essentially. not in order of 3GB...
11:20<@Rubidium>SmatZ: where does this suggest OpenTTD:
11:22<@petern>SmatZ, we've already discussed and decided that freeing every single bit of memory before exit is pointless
11:23<@petern>(the only use is to appease valgrind et al)
11:23<TrueBrain>petern: it does make it easier to detect real leaks though ;)
11:23*Zahl blames msvc++
11:23<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: in what sense?
11:24<TrueBrain>Rubidium: shorter runs
11:24<TrueBrain>when you free everything at closure
11:24<TrueBrain>and you run valgrind, which shwos things not freed
11:24<TrueBrain>there is a good chance it would have leaked over time
11:25<TrueBrain>in my personal projects I solved many potential memleaks that way :)
11:25<Zahl>downloaded the win9x nightly and it has steady memory usage on the 500trains savegame
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11:25<@Rubidium>Zahl: and not with the MSVC (win32) binaries?
11:26<Zahl>i am running both builds right now
11:26<Zahl>loaded the same savegame
11:27<+glx>Zahl: do you want a win32 gcc build too ?
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11:29<Zahl>isn't the win9x version win32?
11:29<+glx>it is but unicode is disabled
11:30<Zahl>well i guess the result here is already speaking for itself :-D
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11:30<Zahl>or do you think its a unicode issue?
11:30<+glx>who knows :)
11:30<+glx>it's MS after all
11:31<Zahl>because if it is a bug with msvc, the output of the tool i used yesterday might actually make sense
11:31<Zahl>it would be the sdt::list that is leaking then
11:32<Zahl>in the CargoList class
11:32<Zahl>it said every instance would leak 12 bytes and highlighted the line where the list of packets is defined
11:39<@Rubidium>so with MSVC is leaks and with MinGW it doesn't... interesting
11:39<Aali>MSVC always had a shitty STL implementation..
11:39<+glx>that's not new yes ;)
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11:40<+glx>I had to change AI API to not use reverse iterators
11:40<+michi_cc>cargopacket.cpp:209 maybe? clear() won't free the memory from the cargo packets
11:40<+michi_cc>or will the MoveTo() in front take care of that?
11:41<Zahl>it has to, otherwise it would leak everywhere
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11:42<+michi_cc>no, because most of the time all packets can probably be delivered so the code path isn't reached
11:42<Zahl>i mean like, on every platform and with every compiler
11:43<@petern>the MoveTo takes care of it
11:43<+glx>visual leak detector output is better
11:43<@SmatZ>petern: the discussion was about freeing data marked as "still reachable", this is marked as "definitely lost" - there have been several commits (not from me) fixing those one-time leaks already
11:43<+glx>but it outputs a lot
11:44<@Rubidium>Zahl: since (approximately) when did you notice the leaky behaviour?
11:44<@Rubidium>i.e. does it happen in 0.6.3?
11:44<Zahl>Rubidium: i have to check that, i didn't play ottd in ages
11:44<Zahl>i'm gonna try some older versions
11:46<@petern>i hadn't run a server for ages, but don't remember a leak in 0.6.3
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11:51<+glx> <-- it really outputs a lot :)
11:51<+glx>uncompressed version is available too
11:51<Aali>0.6.3 leaks too
11:52<@Rubidium>and 0.5.3?
11:52<+glx>but it's 32times bigger
11:52*SmatZ knows bunzip2 ;)
11:53<@SmatZ>glx: I am afraid this includes those "still reachable" memory block, am I right?
11:54<+glx>dunno vld docs are not very explicit
11:55<@petern>what makes you think the 'leaked' memory is unreachable?
11:55<@petern>(yes, that's the definition of leak)
11:56<@Rubidium>SmatZ: yes, it includes "still reachable"
11:56<@Rubidium>such as the 4 MB sprite cache
11:56<@Rubidium>with all 4 MB of data
11:57<@Rubidium>at 16 bytes a line ;)
11:57<@Rubidium>only 262144 lines
11:58<+glx>it also includes sound bank
11:58<@Rubidium>A total of 3 leaks match this size and call stack. Showing only the first one.
11:58<@Rubidium> Call Stack:
11:58<@Rubidium> f:\dd\vctools\crt_bld\self_x86\crt\src\realloc.c (323): _realloc_base
11:58<@Rubidium> f:\dd\vctools\crt_bld\self_x86\crt\src\dbgrealloc.c (60): realloc
11:58<@Rubidium>and itself
11:59<Aali>well, just let it run for a week and find the line that says "A total of 2 bazillion leaks match this size and call stack" :)
11:59<@SmatZ>petern: valgrind says so... local variables musicdriver, sounddriver, videodriver, blitter, graphics_set are on stack, thus the memory they point to is marked as unreachable in valgrind after ttd_main has finished
11:59<+glx>Aali: I did a simple launch and exit
12:00<@SmatZ>Rubidium: :-(
12:00<@petern>SmatZ, uh, okay, i'm trying to find out why my virtual size got up to 3GB. i'm pretty sure it's not those few variables...
12:01<Aali>0.5.3 does not seem to leak
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12:01<Aali>its holding at 7744k private bytes
12:01<Aali>while 0.6.3 is at 30700k and growing
12:01<TrueBrain>petern: virtual size, as VMZ? against RSS?
12:01<Aali>both running the intro game
12:01<@petern>VMZ, yes.
12:01<@Rubidium>Aali: you compile yourself?
12:02<Aali>Rubidium: nope, fetched those from the site
12:02<@petern>RSS was pretty normal
12:02<TrueBrain>petern: RSS is the real memory usage .. I tend to ignore VMZ :p
12:02<@Rubidium>Aali: can you compile yourself, with MSVC?
12:02<@petern>TrueBrain, me too, but 3GB is excessive
12:02<Aali>Rubidium: I'll try it
12:02<TrueBrain>petern: I tend to agree
12:03<TrueBrain>root 9250 0.0 1.5 222088 12360 ? Ss 11:51 0:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start <- 220 MiB of VMZ, where only 12 MiB of RSS
12:03<TrueBrain>sometimes I just don't get it :p
12:03<@petern>lots of unaccessed pages
12:03<@petern>21318 hlds 20 0 283m 189m 24m S 1 4.7 665:34.21 srcds_i486
12:03<@petern>bit bigger ;)
12:04<TrueBrain>mine has a 20:1 rating
12:04<TrueBrain>yours is less :p
12:04<Zahl>anyone got old saves with lots of trains?
12:04<@Rubidium>those coop guys?
12:05<@SmatZ>can the problem be SetBankSource (maybe MX_AUTOFREE not correctly set or so)?
12:05<Zahl>yeah but they are full of newgrfs and stuff
12:05<Zahl>sunno if its good to test with those
12:05<@Rubidium>pile transport isn't
12:05<@SmatZ>Zahl: does it leak when you run -s null -m null ?
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12:06<@SmatZ>hmm most likely that's not the problem
12:06<Zahl>SmatZ: yeah it does
12:07<@SmatZ>Zahl: thanks
12:07<Zahl>ah perfect
12:07<Ammler>another very new high usage game without newgrfs:
12:09<TrueBrain>petern: btw, 64bit or 32bit? (sorry, didn't feel like backreading :p)
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12:15<TrueBrain>btw, petern, ever tried pmap on the process when it consumes such an amount of VMS?
12:15<TrueBrain>grr ... stupid 3 letter words :p
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12:17<@petern>i'm watching pmap at the moment ;)
12:17<TrueBrain>boring job :p
12:17<@petern>i get a ton of lines with 8192K allocated
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12:19<TrueBrain>that are big blocks :p
12:20<[wito]>anyone tried patching 0.7.0b with CargoDest?
12:21<Aali>Rubidium: 0.5.3 compiled with VC 9 is not leaking
12:21<TrueBrain>hmm ... am I the only one unable to connect to the content service?
12:22<@Rubidium>is trunk r10266 ?
12:22<+glx>TrueBrain: fails for me too
12:23<Aali>I just used the tag
12:23<TrueBrain>it is running
12:23<TrueBrain>maybe it didnt reconnect to the mysql :p
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12:23<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: the web-test server is running
12:24<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ah :)
12:24<TrueBrain>and the live one crashed badly
12:24<TrueBrain>memory corruption ..
12:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ottd_master and ottd_updater survived the mysql reconnect (or so it seems)
12:26<TrueBrain>ottd_content didn't :p
12:26<@Rubidium>no idea why it didn't
12:26<TrueBrain>no idea eiterh ;) Just relaying :)
12:27<@Rubidium>just kill the web-test binary so you won't be confused next time ;)
12:28<@Rubidium>and in more than 5 hours nobody has missed it ;)
12:28<TrueBrain>inded :p
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12:30<Zahl>Rubidium: 0.5.3 seems fine
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12:30<Zahl>oh i see, Aali tested it too :)
12:32<@Rubidium>if Aali tests r10266 you can test r10265; just to test whether it can be the cargolist that's leaking
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12:34<Aali>r10266 is extremely leaky
12:34*TrueBrain gets the touwels
12:35<@Rubidium>the st type of towels?
12:35<+glx> <-- this one?
12:35<@petern>is it extremely leaky just because the pool wasn't cleared on exit though?
12:36<Aali>r10266 ate 2MB in one minute
12:36<Aali>and its still going
12:36<Aali>its already up to 36MB
12:36<@Rubidium>now the question is does 10265 the same?
12:37-!-Yexo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:37<Zahl> leak in 10265
12:37<TrueBrain>which compilers?
12:37<pavel1269>u know, i am also sometimes ver yhungry :-)
12:37<+glx> <-- there's also this one
12:38<TrueBrain>and how do you test if it is leaking Aali?
12:38<Aali>I let the intro game run in ff
12:38<@petern>oh crap, my copy has used memory while i wasn't looking :p
12:38<TrueBrain>intro game?
12:38<+glx> too
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12:39<Zahl>Aali: can you try this one?
12:39<TrueBrain>I guess it is MSVC only which leaks?
12:39<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yup
12:40<@petern>what about my leak?
12:40<@Rubidium>missing fclose?
12:40<TrueBrain>petern: go to the badroom :p
12:40<TrueBrain>petern: anyway .. what compiler / how does it leak?
12:40<@petern>3GB VSZ :p
12:40<TrueBrain>petern: how to reproduce?
12:41<TrueBrain>as it is very stable here :)
12:41<Zahl>i set up a linux dedicated a few days ago and got the same thing like petern btw...
12:41<Zahl>but right now it looks like these are two different issues
12:42<Zahl>i mean windows msvc and VSZ on linux
12:42<pavel1269>is possible with MSVS 9/2008 to apply patch?
12:42<@petern>you apply patches with the patch command
12:43<TrueBrain>petern: I mean, does it happen only in networking, or also a normal game, or?
12:43<Zahl>pavel1269: i think the easiest way on windows will be tortoisesvn
12:43<pavel1269>i am win user :-)
12:43<@petern>i don't know yet
12:43<@petern>it happened on my dedicated server after 2 weeks running
12:44<Aali>r10265 leaks aswell, but not nearly as much as r10266
12:44<@petern>i didn't watch it during that time
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12:44<pavel1269>does tartoise also create .rcc or sth like that if he fails appling a patch?
12:44<TrueBrain>petern: k .. that sucks :)
12:44-!-erle- [] has joined #openttd
12:44<pavel1269>does he do that?
12:44<@Rubidium>so that kinda proves that (large) part of the curent problem comes from there
12:45<@petern>memleaks in 10266 may well have been accidentally fixed
12:45<@Rubidium>now the real question is how to solve it and what part of r10266 actually causes it
12:45<TrueBrain>I agree with petern, it might be long fixed ..
12:46<@Rubidium>true, but there are quite a few clues that it might be caused by that
12:46<Aali>r10265 may not even be leaking at all, its so slow it could just be the natural progression of the game
12:46<@petern>==628== LEAK SUMMARY:
12:46<@petern>==628== definitely lost: 17 bytes in 1 blocks.
12:46<@petern>==628== possibly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks.
12:46<@petern>==628== still reachable: 5,492,910 bytes in 605 blocks.
12:46<@petern>==628== suppressed: 0 bytes in 0 blocks.
12:46<@petern>after running -v null:ticks=10000
12:46<+michi_cc>my win64 msvc binary doesn't leak a bit, so it's not just simply msvc alone
12:46<TrueBrain>glx: your map had 544 statiosn, 226 vehicles and 26 effect vehicles when closing the game :p
12:46<@Rubidium>ofcourse you're free to give any other clues that you've got w.r.t. the MSVC leak problem
12:46<Zahl>Aali: thats what i think, it increased by 800k here now, running for 10 minutes in fast forward
12:46<@SmatZ>petern: did you use --leak-check=full to see where the leaked memory was allocated?
12:46<Aali>Zahl: which year?
12:47<Zahl>2094 (in that savegame from ottdcoop)
12:47<+glx>TrueBrain: I just started openttd and exit immediatly
12:47<Aali>oh, you're not running the intro game..
12:47<TrueBrain>glx: then it is a bit more odd ;)
12:49<@Rubidium>Aali/Zahl: does + trunk@HEAD reduce the leaking?
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12:51<@SmatZ>petern: it seems all the memory is still reachable in that paste
12:51<@petern>quite so
12:51<@petern>as it said...
12:52<@petern>so the intro game does not leak for me
12:52<@SmatZ>[17:46:22] <petern> ==628== definitely lost: 17 bytes in 1 blocks. <== I thought this one was interesting :) but you probably know it isn't harmful
12:52<TrueBrain>petern: put your server in a valgrind and wait 2 weeks ;)
12:52<@petern>17 bytes?
12:53<@petern>17 bytes is not 3 GB
12:53<@petern>it's not interesting
12:54<@petern>incidentally, "null:ticks=10000" is 17 bytes long
12:54<@petern>not a coincidence
12:54<@SmatZ>fine :)
12:55<@petern>TrueBrain: i may just do that :p
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12:57<TrueBrain>running dbg lvl3 and valgrind -vnull:ticks=1 takes .. well .. LONG :p
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12:57<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: remove your newgrfs
12:57<TrueBrain>good posibility they are still there ..
12:57<Zahl>Rubidium: no that patch doesn't help
12:57<Zahl>but i found something else that helps
12:58<@Rubidium>so it isn't michi's idea that tmp.packets.clear() was the problem
12:59<Zahl>i removed the call to HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud in train_cmd.cpp
12:59<TrueBrain>Rubidium: doesn't really help :p
12:59<Zahl>and it leaks less
12:59<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: what doesn't really help?
13:00<+glx>Zahl: so you mean it's in effects
13:00<Zahl>glx: if memory validator is right, its still the std::list in CargoList
13:00<@SmatZ>or in sound :-p
13:00<Zahl>HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud created an EffectVehlice
13:00<@SmatZ>or generally less vehicles are created, so it allocates less memory...
13:01<Zahl>which is derived from Vehicle.. and Vehicle creates a CargoList
13:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: removing my newgrfs
13:01<+glx>Zahl: EffectVehicle have cargolist
13:01<Zahl>and with lots of trains this gets called very often
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13:01-!-narc [~narc@] has left #openttd [Coming soon to theaters near you -- PART 2]
13:01<@petern>SmatZ, bring out your clean-up-every-last-bit-of-memory patch
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13:01<@petern>that'll fix the "the pool's bigger" "leaks" ;)
13:02<@SmatZ>petern: good idea, I have to update it to trunk though :)
13:02<TrueBrain>51 kib of memory for ChatMessage, in single player?! (or worse: in main-menu)
13:02<TrueBrain>why?! :(
13:02<Zahl>glx: actually i think i'm gonna add some code to create 50000 instances of CargoList and delete them again and see if it leaks
13:03<@petern>_chatmsg_list = ReallocT(_chatmsg_list, _settings_client.gui.network_chat_box_height);
13:03<TrueBrain>if (!_networking) maybe? :p
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13:04<Zahl>petern: and then build a dedicated server without network support :p
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13:04<pavel1269>u r crazy ^^
13:04<@petern>you are lazy
13:04<pavel1269>eh, why? :-)
13:05<TrueBrain>Rubidium: btw, if a patch as you just presented would really fix it, gcc should show the same problems
13:06<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: not if MSVC's std::list implementation is broken
13:06<+glx>hmm real vehicles have this->cargo.Truncate(0); in the destructor
13:06<+glx>EffectsVehicles don't
13:07<+glx>but I don't know if it's important
13:07<@Rubidium>on the other hand effect vehicles don't get cargopackets
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13:07<+glx>but cargo is allocated on construction
13:07<TrueBrain>cargolist, yes, cargopackets, no ;)
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13:08<TrueBrain>cargolist, std::list<cargopackets *> and cargopackets .. you got to love it :)
13:08<TrueBrain>btw, Rubidium, if you think std::list is in error here, can't you replace it with one of the Simple thingies OpenTTD has?
13:08<TrueBrain>SmallVec or what ever?
13:10<@Rubidium>smallvec isn't fifo
13:12<TrueBrain>I guess it takes little effort to make it enough for its usage in cargopackets.cpp
13:12<@Rubidium>but could use it for poc
13:13<TrueBrain>(I don't mean a correct implementation, but just one to test if it is a problem or not ;))
13:14<Zahl>i think it also cannot just be the list leaking in general, it has to be special circumstances, as the list is used in other places too
13:17<TrueBrain>petern: I really wonder how your VSZ exploded like that :)
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13:23<@petern>me too
13:26<Zahl> <-- is this normal y/n? :p
13:27<@petern>assuming they're openttd processes
13:27<@Rubidium>Aali/Zahl: does the following diff solve the leaking? <- load savegames with version 44 or less (before ~r10000, so basically 0.5.3 or less) and do not save
13:27<Zahl>i'll try
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13:40<Zahl>Rubidium: as far as i can tell its solved. there's still a slight increase over time which seems to be the gamestate getting bigger.. if its still leaking, its at least much less...
13:41<@Rubidium>yay for std::list :(
13:43<Zahl>i tried allocating and then deleting 100000 CargoList in in the "resetengines" console command earlier, but that doesn't leak for some reason
13:44<@Rubidium>probably because you didn't put stuff in the cargolists
13:44<Zahl>yeah, but for the EffectVehicles there should also be nothing in there..
13:44<Zahl>still they trigger the leak
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13:50<planetmaker>good evening
13:56<@Belugas>mister planetmaker
13:56-!-[1]KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has joined #openttd
13:56<planetmaker>hello Mr Belugas :)
13:57-!-KenjiE20 is now known as Guest211
13:57-!-[1]KenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20
13:57<planetmaker>how's going?
13:57<pavel1269>lo mr planetmaker :-)
13:57<planetmaker>'lo pavel1269 :)
13:58<el_en>nd: Lidl's Freeway MixxMax (cola & orange)
13:59<@Belugas>it's going working
13:59<planetmaker>:D Same here, same here... still :S
13:59<pavel1269>in my country we have nice "nursery rhyme" .... "why are u
14:00<pavel1269>"why do u use first-anme thersm, we havent peed together"
14:00<pavel1269>hope u will understand that
14:00-!-Guest211 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:02<@Belugas>nursery rhyme... i'd rather go for "Nursery Crime"!
14:02<@Belugas>and.. by the way....
14:02<planetmaker>:D sounds like :P
14:02<@Belugas>IT'S "YOU"
14:02<@Belugas>nut "u'
14:02<+michi_cc>Zahl: I've got another idea, can you replace line 611 in vehicle.cpp ("new (this) InvalidVehicle();") with "this->type = VEH_INVALID;" and report what's happening?
14:02*Prof_Frink nuts Belugas
14:02*planetmaker hands Belugas a "o" :P :)
14:02<pavel1269>why do YOU hate "u" so much?
14:03<planetmaker>I take "u"s into comission ;)
14:03-!-erle- [] has quit [Quit: that's all folks]
14:03<planetmaker>pavel1269: it's ugly reading
14:03<pavel1269>hmm, its fast typing :-)
14:03<@Belugas>it's slopiness
14:03<@Belugas>it's laziness
14:03<@Belugas>it's sloguish
14:03<@Belugas>it's ugly
14:03<pavel1269>but u kno what i mean
14:03<@Belugas>it's street talk
14:04-!-pavel1269 was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Do you know wnat I mean?]
14:04<planetmaker>pavel1269: it's simply _not_ readable :D
14:04*planetmaker hugs Belugas :)
14:04-!-pavel1269 [] has joined #openttd
14:04<planetmaker>pavel1269: it's simply _not_ readable :D
14:04*yorick hugs Belugas
14:04<FauxFaux>Belugas: "It's ugly." is closer to accepted English.
14:04<pavel1269>wnat i mea? :D
14:04<+michi_cc>Rubidium: that line in vehicle.cpp looks very suspicious, as InvalidVehicle() will create a new CargoList instance without the destructor of the old one being run
14:04<FauxFaux>Not mentioning the contraction of "it is". I mean, pure sloth, right there.
14:05<yorick>pavel1269: that's a typo
14:05<pavel1269>lies :-)
14:05<yorick>FauxFaux: it is accepted english
14:05<yorick>grmbl, fail
14:05<FauxFaux>Oh, indeed. I'll happily accept "I'd've" and the like.
14:05<yorick>pavel1269: the h is right next to the n
14:05<pavel1269>eh ...
14:06<pavel1269>ahh :-) ....
14:06<yorick>but the u key isnot close to the you key
14:06<yorick>you see
14:06<yorick>I don't even have a you-key
14:06*yorick presses the any-key
14:07-!-Mortomes [] has joined #openttd
14:07<FauxFaux>Calm down dear, it's the any key.
14:10<Zahl>michi_cc: building...
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14:11<Zahl>michi_cc: ZOMG
14:12<Zahl>its fixed
14:13<Zahl>wow... just wow :-)
14:13<Zahl>Rubidium: we can keep our beloved std::list it seems
14:14<Zahl>(if this didn't break something else)
14:17<@petern>oh right
14:17<@petern>i can go home can't i
14:18<Zahl>you stay right here buddy
14:19<Aali>so, EffectVehicle was fucking it up all along
14:19-!-Splex [~splex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:20<Aali>(or any other vehicle, but you don't destroy those as often)
14:21<+glx>Aali: disasters too
14:21<Zahl>yeah that, in some wierd combination with the std::list
14:21<Aali>if anyone ever played with disasters on
14:21<+glx>but indeed effects are the visible part of the iceberg :)
14:22<[wito]>How do I invoke the configure script as for to use /usr/share/ instead of /usr/local/share?
14:25<@Rubidium>./configure --help?
14:25<+glx>usually it's --prefix ;)
14:25<Forked>Rubidium: no silly, that just brings up the "this is how you do it" list. geez :\
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14:35<@petern>whatever's causing my vsz thingy is not lost memory :o
14:36<@petern>or i just didn't leave it long enough
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14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15652 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#2706]: new (this) is seldom a good idea as destructors of member variables aren't run causing memory leaks.
14:42<[wito]>r15651 with cargodest!
14:43<[wito]>of course, now I'll have to update from subversion and build again. :P
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15653 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-09 18:42:57
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed by planetmaker (1)
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 387 fixed by Gubius (387)
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 fixed by kkmic (1)
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: thai - 29 fixed by meemee1983 (29)
14:43<yorick>[wito]: huh?
14:44<pavel1269>cargodest in trunk?
14:44<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by peter1138 :: r15651 trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp (2009-03-09 13:38:00 UTC)
14:44<@DorpsGek>yorick: -Codechange: Codestyle and comments.
14:45<@Belugas>i guess wito means that he upgraded cargodest to r15651...
14:45<yorick>oh :/
14:45<el_en>@seen tron
14:45<@DorpsGek>el_en: tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 4 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
14:45<yorick>don't scare me like that
14:45<[wito]>used the 15642 patch
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14:45<[wito]>seems to work well enough with 15651 so far, tho'
14:46<pavel1269>yorick: scare? why?
14:46<yorick>cargodest hasn't been updated for 2 months and had some desync
14:46<pavel1269>desync? :'(
14:46<@Belugas>which, by many standards, means it's ready for trunk inclusion :P
14:47<@Belugas>twweeeeet twiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
14:47<@Belugas>sarcasm detector gone crazy!!!!
14:47<planetmaker>I saw a smoke cloud where I last saw that detector. Did something happen to it?
14:48<Ammler>yorick, those desync were trunk related and are fixed.
14:48<pavel1269>u'v just killed that patch for me
14:48<@Belugas>i swallowed the smoke
14:48<pavel1269>ah, sorry :-)
14:48<pavel1269>that is just great! :-)
14:48<Ammler>aali's patch is quite stable.
14:48<pavel1269>what does mean, quite? :P
14:48<pavel1269>does or doesnt? :P
14:49<planetmaker>it's usually quiet :P
14:49<planetmaker>Ammler: your spelling was correct :)
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14:50<yorick>pavel1269: "quite" "more than a bit"
14:50<pavel1269>i know that word ... just .... :-)
14:50<pavel1269>it IS stable or ISNT :-)
14:50-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
14:50<Ammler>openttd is indeed stable
14:51<pavel1269>my patch is semi-working :-)
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14:52<Ammler>it was never that stable like now, imo. (except the memory which is something else)
14:52<planetmaker>I haven't seen a single desync (nasty stuff!) since autumn, I think
14:53<Ammler>do you miss them too ;-)
14:53<planetmaker>and the few asserts since then were quickly fixed.
14:53<pavel1269>my last desync was in ..... long .... when it was almost impossible to buy industry :-)
14:53<pavel1269>buy industry ... 50% to desync .... when was that?
14:53<planetmaker>Ammler: not sure :) I think it's one of the things which I like to keep as "bad memory of the past" ;)
14:54<planetmaker>so... not everything was better in former times :D
14:54<yorick>how to get company id from Company object?
14:54-!-tkjacobsen__ [] has joined #openttd
14:54<planetmaker>or rather o->GetCompanyID()
14:55<yorick>that'd be too obvious
14:55<planetmaker>yeah, sure. :P
14:55<yorick>and also it isn't true
14:55<planetmaker>Openttd uses preferably convoluted, unreadable code ...
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14:55<@Belugas>[14:54] <planetmaker> I haven't seen a single desync (nasty stuff!) since autumn, I think <--- I have not seen a desynch for at least 2 years ;)
14:56<yorick>Belugas hasn't played openttd for at least 2 years
14:56<yorick>in multiplayer
14:56<planetmaker>Belugas: he :P
14:56<@Belugas>a cookie for the Y man
14:56<@Rubidium>I'm often in desync
14:56<Ammler>just eaten the last one
14:56<planetmaker>I wish I could say that, but my openttd history isn't as long :)
14:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15654 /trunk/src/ (articulated_vehicles.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Only ever call any vehicle callbacks after the whole articulated engine has been built. (except 0x16)
14:57*yorick eats Ammler
14:57*planetmaker slaps yorick
14:58<yorick>probably d->index
14:58<Aali>why do the newgame grf settings affect old savegames?
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14:59<planetmaker>Aali: maybe some settings weren't defined back then?
14:59-!-Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
14:59<Aali>still seems like a bad idea
15:00<Ammler>Aali: pre-grfsettings-insave-games
15:00<planetmaker>you then need to go by some value.
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15:01<Aali>so, you could have newgrfs in a game, but the config wasn't stored in the savegame?
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15:01<@Rubidium>Aali: yup
15:01<Ammler>how long do you know openttd?
15:01<@Rubidium>not long enough ;)
15:01<Ammler>that isn't that long ago.
15:01<@Rubidium>planetmaker: can I join your with the slapping party?
15:01<Ammler>with 0.6, iirc
15:02<Aali>I started playing ottd with 0.6.2
15:02<planetmaker>Rubidium: you're always welcome at my parties :)
15:02-!-mikl [~mikl@] has quit [Quit: mikl]
15:02<@Rubidium>Ammler: 0.5 is the first that saves it
15:02-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:02<planetmaker>Aali: that's quite late :)
15:03<Ammler>so already 3 years
15:03*planetmaker hands a large trout to Rubidium
15:03*Rubidium starts preparing dinner
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15:04<planetmaker>:) not the worst, I guess. Belugas I might actually try it. It's an interesting idea!
15:05<planetmaker>Maybe I'll start with shrimps, though
15:05*planetmaker makes a mental note.
15:06<@Belugas>shrimps and leek
15:06<@Belugas>AND CREAM!
15:06<@Belugas>not for Rubidium..
15:07<@Belugas>too close to leak...
15:07<planetmaker>hehe :)
15:07<planetmaker>Belugas: I don't know quiche without cream... :)
15:07<@Belugas>my wife can teach you a trick or two...
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15:07<@Belugas>for the sake of my belly :(
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15:08<planetmaker>he :P
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15:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15655 /trunk/src/articulated_vehicles.cpp: -Codechange: Initialise vehicle vars only after a placement new so possible default constructors don't overwrite the values.
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15:33<@Belugas>Thank You Space Expert
15:33<@Belugas>sooooo.... smooth...
15:42<welshdragon>ooh, new Infrastructure Sharing patch
15:42<welshdragon>thank you Swallow
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15:48<jpm>I was wondering does contain newest version of cargodest
15:49<Yexo>jpm: that's the latest version by celestar
15:49<Aali>it contains the newest official version of cargodest
15:49<Yexo>Aali has continued cargodest, but not there
15:49<Aali>I haven't "continued" cargodest
15:49<Aali>I've kept it alive
15:50<Yexo>continued as in updated :)
15:50<jpm>Aali: is you version in cargodest forum thread?
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15:51<benoid>i am working on a proxy that bans all https pages by content (whenever it matches "cherry" or "bimbo" the page should be blocked and a "meal time later" message must be displayed instead), so i need to add another proxy, for mitming up my https, what mitm proxy can i use?
15:51<jpm>Aali: could you breafly tell difference between yours and official versions
15:51<Aali>jpm: no difference in functionality, at all
15:51<Aali>well, thats not entirely true, I have fixed some things
15:51<Aali>but you wont notice :)
15:53<jpm>Aali: I was thinking implementing shared infra to cardodest, yes I know its not easy task, but i have been studying IS patch and maid some simplifications on it...
15:53-!-Muxy [] has joined #openttd
15:53<Aali>its a very easy task
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15:53<jpm>Aali: ?
15:53<Aali>and if you check the old IS thread, you'll find a patch that applies to cargodest
15:54<jpm>yes, but they say its buggy
15:54<Aali>good thing "they" never told me about it
15:54<Aali>whats the problem?
15:54<jpm>in multiplayer game..
15:55<Aali>..yes? what happens in multiplayer games?
15:56<jpm>They say its buggy in multiplayer games...
15:56<@Belugas>benoid, i guess you're not on the right channel...
15:56<Alberth>benoid: we only transport cargo, not bits
15:57<benoid>what kind of cargo?
15:57<Aali>jpm: who says that? and when? (I assume you can't tell me what this bug is)
15:57<jpm>And old IS does not provide good way to define rents/payments
15:57<Alberth>benoid: food, water, diamond, coals, etc in our transport game
15:58<jpm>Aali: I can't say because I haven't tried to combine CD and IS,
15:59<jpm>Aali: I would not like to build my patches on buggy combination
16:00<jpm>Aali: Maybe I should give them a try...
16:00<Aali>I'm talking about my IS+cargodest patch here, I know other people have released some buggy shit
16:00<Aali>so if you know anyone who has had problems with that, I would like to get in touch with them
16:01<jpm>Aali: okey, from where I can find you patch?
16:01<Aali>tt forums
16:01<jpm>And latest version was?
16:02<Aali>its the last post in the old IS thread
16:02<jpm>okey, thanks I will check it out
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16:07<[wito]>the r15642 CD patch works (so far) with r15655
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16:08<Aali>you're better off with r15655 ;)
16:09<[wito]>well, it's just 13 revs, tho'
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16:10<Aali>it doesn't have a certain nasty memory leak
16:16<jpm>My simple(draft) implementation of gui to easily define station rent for other players:
16:17<Aali>I would not want to configure every single station :/
16:17<jpm>You need only negotiate % with you coplayer
16:18<jpm>Station owner gets now 20% of others road vehicle income on this station
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16:19<Yexo>jpm: and what if the station is only used for loading? (so no actual profit is made there)
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16:20<Yexo>and I agree with Aali, I wouldn't want to configure the prices for every station seperatly
16:20<jpm>But if you use rent based on capacity or time it is very hard to estimate is cooperation with other players profitable at all...
16:20<RS-SM>station rent"?
16:20<RS-SM>we could rent out stations?
16:20<jpm>rent for tracks
16:21<RS-SM>Ah, that
16:21<Aali>jpm: the new patch adjusts vehicle profits to include sharing costs
16:21<RS-SM>I am wondering
16:21<Aali>so you can easily see if its profitable
16:21<RS-SM>is it possible to make a station split along tracks
16:22<RS-SM>I want to run a subway/monorail shuttle alongside a trans suburban heavy rail set
16:22<jpm>Aali: okey...
16:24<jpm>Aali: still adjustment is easier to make if rent is portion of profit/loss
16:25<Aali>well, like Yexo said, what if the profit is made elsewhere?
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16:25<Yexo>RS-SM: I'm not sure what you want exactly, do you know about distantant-join-stations?
16:26-!-Hirundo is now known as Swallow
16:26<RS-SM>but explain
16:26<Aali>distantant-join? is that a new feature? :P
16:27<RS-SM>The arrangment is there is a a large 4 tracked heavy electrified tr..
16:27<RS-SM>I assume you need a nightly?
16:27<Yexo>yes, or 0.7.0beta1
16:27<Aali>you can always stationwalk
16:27<RS-SM>station walk?
16:28<RS-SM>I'm happy
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16:28<jpm>Aali: Loading only is problem, you need to negotiate about that too
16:28<RS-SM>I can now actually help my overburdened river crossings
16:28<Yexo>delete the track, build the station so it's on both sides of the track, remove the middle part only
16:28-!-murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:28<Yexo>jpm: now what if I use your tracks, but my own stations?
16:28<RS-SM>since I have thousands of people boarding local trains just to go to one station
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16:29<jpm>Yexo: you are not allowed to use my tracks without permission
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16:30<[wito]>Distant-join Stations was the sole reason I went thru the trouble of getting a recent trunk version with cargodest
16:30<Yexo>jpm: that wasn't the point
16:30<[wito]>well, that and cargodest, of course
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16:30<jpm>Yexo: Usually we have negotiated routes before hand and that is reason why rent have to be easily estimated
16:31<RS-SM>gentlemen, what custom rail sets do you use, by the way
16:31*Yexo doesn't play that much, and if I play it's mostly online (so whatever rail set the server is using)
16:31<jpm>Yexo: usually if you want to use my tracks you have to use at least on of my stations
16:32<Yexo>jpm: that may be true for the way you want to play, but please think about how other might want to play, and if that works too
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16:33<RS-SM>Ah, I see
16:33<Aali>RS-SM: 2cc, japset or tropic refurbishment set
16:33<RS-SM>I'm mostly an American/Japan combined for rails. 2cc for the locals and the german busses
16:33<jpm>Yexo: Of course I want to know what you think about my idea but let me explain it first ;)
16:33<RS-SM>they are cheap and high capacity for the giant cities
16:33<[wito]>RS-SM: 2cc, NARS, Norwegian, JPset
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16:33<Yexo>jpm: you can better explain it to either Aali or Swallow, as they are working on IS
16:34<RS-SM>How are they, cheap or expensive?
16:34<[wito]>RS-SM: expensive, I guess
16:34<jpm>Yexo: Why you asked if you didn't want answer? :)
16:35<RS-SM>ah, I tend to be cheap with my train sets, why I love the FP40
16:35<RS-SM>no cost, it can make money anywhere
16:35<Yexo>of course I'd like an answer, I was just pointing out that convincing me of your idea doesn't really help getting it in IS currently
16:36<jpm>Yeah, I know that our way to play the game is quite different...
16:36<RS-SM>how do you play, might I ask
16:38-!-racetrack [] has quit [Quit: no. just, no.]
16:38<@Belugas>with a mouse, a screen, a computer and a keyboard :)
16:38<jpm>Once a week, usually sunday night, 3-6 players all good frends of mine
16:38<planetmaker>Oh, I play w/o mouse, Belugas :)
16:38<@Belugas>argh... a console fanatic!
16:38<planetmaker>no... touchpad :)
16:39<@Belugas>blep :)
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16:40<Yexo>that little animal a cat likes to eat ;)
16:40<Prof_Frink>I use a moose. Far more interesting.
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16:42<jpm>Have have made economy patches to make game play more challenging, bank to loan money from player to player...
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16:50<jpm>Screenshot of patch guis: and more info of old version :
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17:15<energetic|afk>jpm: have you checked out alberth's nested windows?
17:15<energetic|afk>(nested widgets)
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17:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15656 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: Changing dynamic_engines also requires reloading newgrfs as well as resetting the OverrideManager.
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17:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15657 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Fix [FS#2716]: undeterministic file sorting when the date is equal for all files
18:00<welshdragon>is improved timetable management in trunk?
18:01<Aali>improved timetable management is more or less dead at the moment
18:01<welshdragon>it seemed such a good feature coupled with Infrastructure sharing
18:01<planetmaker>one at a time :)
18:02<@Rubidium>it's following cargodest
18:02<planetmaker>he... good start then abandoned by author?
18:02<[wito]>all we need something that's EA or AE
18:02<[wito]>and we'll have one big chunk: DISC TEAM!
18:02<@petern>RICK ROLLED
18:02<Prof_Frink>MEAT DISC.
18:02<@petern>BY LAST FM
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18:02<planetmaker>Are you alright, [wito] ?
18:02<Aali>even ITiM breaks down eventually, it's only marginally less useless than trunk timetables
18:03<Aali>they just can't handle crowded networks
18:03<[wito]>planetmaker: quite
18:03<[wito]>or that, yes
18:03<[wito]>MEAT DISC
18:03<[wito]>that works too. :P
18:03<Aali>excellent for feeder services though
18:04<planetmaker>seemed a bit out-of context to me, but might just be me, being tired, [wito] :)
18:04<welshdragon>it would be interesting if you could have a command 'wait for train/vehicle x to arrive at station y'
18:05-!-el_en [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05<[wito]>planetmaker: I'm talking about the ultimate OpenTTD party pack
18:05<Prof_Frink>ACID STEM
18:05<@SmatZ>welshdragon: 'and wait until it unloads, and maybe a little more'
18:05<planetmaker>[wito]: also called wwottdgd/3 :P
18:05<planetmaker>anyway... good night for now :)
18:06<[wito]>Infrastructure Sharing + CargoDest + Timetable Management
18:06<welshdragon>SmatZ: no: go to station a: wait for train 1 to arrive at station b: load
18:07<welshdragon>then they both depart virtually same time
18:08<@petern>YOU SPIN ME ROUND
18:09*Prof_Frink pokes Sacro
18:09<Prof_Frink>Just thought you'd like to know... You just lost the game.
18:09<welshdragon>teh Frik!
18:10*welshdragon just lost the game too. b*****d
18:11<Prof_Frink>What the devil are you on about, old chap?
18:11*welshdragon isn't old
18:12<welshdragon>petern however, is
18:13*TrueBrain pushed @kick at the top of the stack
18:13*welshdragon hides from @kick
18:14<@petern># don't you remember
18:14<@petern># we built this city
18:14<@petern># we built this city on rock and roll
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15658 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: Rewrite AIAbstractList::Valuate to make it more readable and fix a crash if no parameters are given to that function.
18:15<Prof_Frink>Rock is good for foundations, but are bread products really suitable?
18:16-!-Dred_furst` [] has joined #openttd
18:21<goodger>Prof_Frink: dwarf bread?
18:23-!-racetrack [] has joined #openttd
18:23<Prof_Frink>Must be.
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18:24<@petern>is there a difference between dwarf bread and rock?
18:24<FauxFaux>Rocks are nowhere near as tasty.
18:24<@petern>must be
18:24<@petern>otherwise the dwarves made the trolls...
18:25<Prof_Frink>Dwarf bread is slightly harder.
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18:28<@petern>and trolls are well 'ard
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18:29<goodger>I believe dwarf bread is baked?
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18:42<Sacro>Prof_Frink: fuck you
18:42<TrueBrain>I hope it pays money
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19:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15659 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqstate.cpp: -Fix [Squirrel]: The garbage collection would sometimes loop (2^32 - small_value) times instead of only small_value times.
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19:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15660 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Prepare: for 0.7.0-beta2 (ofcourse)
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19:28<Aali>is it really okay to call LoadUnloadVehicle with negative values for *cargo_left?
19:28<Aali>when does that happen?
19:29<@SmatZ>does that happen?
19:30<@Rubidium>yes it's okay and intended that way
19:30<@SmatZ> int cap_left = v->cargo_cap - v->cargo.Count();
19:30<Aali>what does it mean?
19:30<@SmatZ> if (cap_left > 0) cargo_left[v->cargo_type] -= cap_left;
19:30<@SmatZ>if you have for example in mind this
19:30<@SmatZ>it happens when you change GRF config
19:31<@SmatZ>or when you load TTD game modified by TTDAlter
19:31<@SmatZ>and such :-p
19:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15661 /tags/0.7.0-beta2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.0-beta2
19:31<Aali>err, no, it happens alot in a savegame from r15591, when I'm not doing anything
19:32<Aali>cargo_left is an array in disguise?
19:32<@SmatZ>of course it's an array
19:32<Aali>that makes more sense
19:33<Aali>not very clear from the function declaration
19:33<@SmatZ>int *data is imo better readable than int data[]
19:33<@SmatZ>wrt for example sizeof :-p
19:34<Aali>anyway, thanks for your time, I was a bit of an idiot and didn't read the code
19:34<@SmatZ>(AcceptedCargo is an array with ugly results when sizeof is used ;)
19:34<Aali>it makes sense now
19:34<@SmatZ>no problem :)
19:34<@SmatZ>you're not idiot for asking ;)
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19:50<taisteluorava>is 0.7.0 beta 2 released already?
19:50<@Rubidium>depends on what you call released
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19:56<NukeBuster>Is a tag enough to be released?
19:58<@Belugas_Gone>You're hit!!!!
20:00<@Belugas_Gone>mmh... TV time
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20:39-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3, 0.7.0-beta2 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator:
20:39<@Rubidium> translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches &
20:39<@Rubidium> Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices |
20:40-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3, 0.7.0-beta2 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
20:40<@Rubidium>why do I always fail with topics?
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20:44<goodger>Rubidium: there is a small but vocal school of thought that posits that you are partially constructed from the medium of fail
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21:04<welshdragon>hmm, i tried o do IS on my own machine, it failed
21:05*welshdragon was trying to run two clients locally
21:05<welshdragon>something about the protocol?
21:06<welshdragon>never mind, it works now :)
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22:17<RS-SM>I think I found a bug
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22:20<Aali>RS-SM: good for you
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 10 00:00:44 2009