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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-10

---Logopened Tue Mar 10 00:00:44 2009
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01:05<db48x>anyone around? I've written a patch that works even though it shouldn't
01:05<db48x>I'd like to understand why
01:05<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/terraform-1.diff
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01:50<dihedral>fairplay 23820 0.4 0.8 326016 8456 pts/1 Ss+ Mar09 2:30 ./openttd -c openttd.cfg -D
01:50<dihedral>problem still exists
01:56<@petern>²
01:56<@petern>dihedral, who said it wouldn't?
02:15<el_en>your awayk urly
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02:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15662 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11795): Don't mark a company as having ratings in a town when querying the cost of a command.
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03:01<dihedral>petern: i assumed, because of the one commit by michi_cc
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03:52<planetmaker>good morning
03:53<dihedral>oi
03:53<dihedral>sorry pm, i was on a seminar on sat
03:53<planetmaker>hey dih :) No worries
03:54<planetmaker>btw, which e-mail do you prefer me to use?
03:54<planetmaker>And I hope the seminar was fun and joyful?
03:54<DASPRiD>dihedral, oink
03:55<dihedral>i knew it! i always knew it!
03:55<planetmaker>:D
03:55<dihedral>the seminar was great :-)
03:55<dihedral>was a very well filled 24 hours
03:55<planetmaker>what was it about?
03:55<dihedral>youth work
03:55<planetmaker>great :)
03:55<dihedral>tiring!
03:56<dihedral>got there at 10am, and there was always something going on until 4am
03:56<planetmaker>so you know now everything how to tend a horde of fleds?
03:56<dihedral>well, no :-D
03:56<dihedral>but i know i need to learn more than i assumed before :-P
03:56<planetmaker>:P
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03:57<planetmaker>better than vice versa :) - then things get boring ;)
03:57<dihedral>yes
03:57<dihedral>but the teens that were there, were a good bunch of fun
03:57<planetmaker>:D
03:58<dihedral>though i did not agree with one particular situation tbh
03:58<dihedral>3 people decided......
03:58<dihedral>that 2 would grab me by hands and fee
03:58<dihedral>t
03:58-!-AmixE90 [~AmixE@ggsn-pool0x53-24.networknorway.no] has joined #openttd
03:58<planetmaker>*splash*?
03:58<dihedral>the third opened the window, they threw me out and closed the window again
03:58<AmixE90>Wee
03:58<dihedral>:-D
03:58<planetmaker>:D
03:58<dihedral>t'was fun ^^
03:59<dihedral>thankfully we were on the ground floor hehe
03:59<planetmaker>:) I can easily imagine :)
03:59<planetmaker>oh, I would have thought there was a water basin or so :P
03:59<DASPRiD>funny guys ^_°
03:59<dihedral>hihi
04:00<dihedral>thankfully not, no
04:00<planetmaker>or swimming pools. Make good "dump locations" for people carried like you describe :P
04:01<planetmaker>It's considerate to take their wallet, mobile and watch of them before, though :S
04:01<dihedral>yes
04:01<AmixE90>If you are me and havent slept in 17 hours. Whats best to eat to stay awake?
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04:01<planetmaker>Luckily I'm not you :P
04:02<AmixE90>Yeye
04:02<dihedral>well, i did tease them a bit for that, so i had my fun too :-D
04:02<planetmaker>hehe :)
04:03<planetmaker>tid for tad, eh?
04:03<dihedral>yes
04:03<dihedral>:-P
04:03<DASPRiD>AmixE90, something with 600,000 scoville
04:09<AmixE90>Whats that?
04:09<AmixE90>I didnt get sleep last night. Dont know why
04:12<planetmaker>sachimi
04:12<planetmaker>with coke
04:15<AmixE90>I just need to turn my internal biological clock. When i work late shifts its hard to goto sleep when done at 22. I said to myself. Goto sleep at 23.00, but I ended up at 02.00 and then someone messaged me and clock became 04. Impossible to get some
04:15<AmixE90>sleep then ;)
04:15<AmixE90>and work started 08,..
04:17*DASPRiD resets AmixE90' biological clock
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04:30<AmixE90>I need it
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04:41<AmixE90>I am not a coffee person, so for me its painfull. But i like pain ;)
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04:43<Ammler>Morning all
04:44<Ammler>31738 openttd 25 10 352m 16m 3424 R 0 0.8 70:38.67 openttd <-- there might be still a leak somewhere ;-/
04:44<@Rubidium>it's only using 16 MB
04:45<Ammler>oh, that was also before
04:45<Ammler>onvly virtual mem rised
04:46<Ammler>(before r15652)
04:47<Ammler>it is much better anyway, as we would have around 1 GB now...
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04:50<planetmaker>he... still a leak left? :S
04:51<planetmaker>Hm, Rubidium, the mem leak fix isn't in the current nightly, is it?
04:51<Ammler>dunno, just high :-)
04:51<planetmaker>it will only be in the upcoming one?
04:51<Ammler>ah, I thought it's r15652
04:52<@petern>hey guys
04:52<@petern>you know there's more than one line of code?
04:52<planetmaker>he... I think so, too :)
04:52<planetmaker>petern: oh.... now you mention it :P
04:53<@petern>well you know there may be more than one leak right?
04:53<planetmaker>petern: sure. But the hope that _one_ fix might have fixed it could have been a valid one :)
04:54<planetmaker>[09:47] <Ammler> it is much better anyway, as we would have around 1 GB now... <-- and I think that was hinted here, too :)
04:54<@Rubidium>Ammler/petern: does the kernel on your machine have pax?
04:56<planetmaker>hm... dunno what it is. man pax doesn't return anything. Should it?
04:56<@Rubidium>it's something in the kernel
04:57<planetmaker>logs$ uname -a
04:57<planetmaker>Linux tenshi 2.6.18.1.20061115-ralph.33.p4 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Nov 15 19:43:27 CET 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
04:57<planetmaker>^^ can that help to tell?
04:57<planetmaker>or: how do I find out?
04:58<@Rubidium>do you have a /proc/config.gz ?
04:59<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/test.c <- does that cause vsize to grow for you?
05:00<planetmaker>there's no /proc/config*
05:04<planetmaker>but test.c seems to have constant virtual memory
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05:05<@Rubidium>planetmaker: that's on a machine where vsize increases over time, right?
05:05<planetmaker>it's the publicserver machine. So afaik yes
05:06<planetmaker>yes. We have already 8mb more for our PS than Ammler posted 15 or 30 minutes ago...
05:06<Ammler>the virtual memory there was around 2-3GB after a day
05:07<planetmaker>31738 openttd 25 10 368m 16m 3424 S 0 0.8 70:38.73 openttd
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05:07<Ammler>(server is paused)
05:07<planetmaker>[09:44] <Ammler> 31738 openttd 25 10 352m 16m 3424 R 0 0.8 70:38.67 <-- 25 minutes ago
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05:09<@Rubidium>what does pmap tell about the process?
05:09<Ammler>Rubidium: that is a "real" server no vps like mine or dih's
05:10<planetmaker>well. The only difference is, that this won't get an OOM error - or?
05:10<Ammler>yeah
05:10<Ammler>vps has a silly limit at 700 MB or so
05:13<planetmaker>Rubidium: http://paste.openttd.org/180224
05:16<@petern>i don't have a proc config -- it's a standard debian lenny kernel
05:25<@Rubidium>too bad :(
05:26<racetrack>debian keeps its config in /boot/config*
05:26<racetrack>but you don't have pax in a stock kernel
05:26<racetrack>you need to install linux-patch-grsecurity2 and then rebuild the kernel to get it
05:28<planetmaker>doh...
05:28<planetmaker>Rubidium: does the config help you, given we have a default debian sarge kernel?
05:29<Ammler> 2.6.18.1.20061115-ralph.33.p4 <-- doesn't look like default
05:29<@Rubidium>no, just hoped to get some clue whether pax might be installed
05:30<planetmaker>hm, ok. But Ammler's right. Doesn't look like default.
05:30<Ammler>we need to ask Phoenix...
05:30<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/180225 <-- I find no reference to PAX
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05:34<AmixE90>OpenTTD should get a file archive like www.aminet.net
05:35<AmixE90>where every newgrf is listed etc
05:35<Ammler>AmixE90: you missed bananas :P
05:36<planetmaker>and grfcrawler
05:36<AmixE90>OpenTTD crawler is basicly ok. But if it was like aminet.net, it would be easier i think
05:37<@petern>you missed bananas
05:37<@petern>which is easier, i think
05:37<AmixE90>Dancing bananas
05:37<AmixE90>?
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05:58<@petern>arrr
05:58<@petern>just compiled beta2
05:59*petern valgrinds it :p
05:59<[wito]>What rev is beta-2?
06:00<[wito]>15660?
06:00<@petern>no
06:00<@petern>it is a tag... tags/0.7.0-beta2
06:00<[wito]>ah
06:01<[wito]>so 15661 (the revision where that got introduced)
06:01<@petern>there are some changes in the tag though
06:02<@petern>just to be awkward :D
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06:08<[wito]>ah
06:08<@petern>heh, my ottd process gets bigger, but that might just be valgrind :p
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06:12<@Rubidium>might it be happening every time OpenTTD advertises?
06:16<dihedral>Rubidium, i put my server in pause mode and will watch it for some time
06:16<dihedral>if it's clients or advertising, then it'll show in paused mode too ^^
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06:17<@petern>i did wonder that
06:18<@Rubidium>it grows ~ 1GB per day?
06:18<dihedral>i have a 512x512 map
06:19<dihedral>it's exceeds ~600 MB within about 18 hours
06:19<@petern>dunno about per day, i only noticed at it 3GB after 2 weeks
06:20<@Rubidium>sounds about right; 8 MB per 15 minutes
06:23<@petern>:o
06:23*petern tests
06:24<@petern>yup
06:24<dihedral>Rubidium, 8MB in 15 mins sounds too much to be caused by advertising or client connects
06:24<@petern>i changed interval to 9 seconds
06:25<dihedral>+ is too regular
06:25<dihedral>(at least for client connections)
06:25<@petern>and it goes up 8MB every 9 seconds
06:25<planetmaker>he...
06:25<dihedral>petern, which interval?
06:25<planetmaker>advertise?
06:25<@petern>never you mind
06:25<@petern>ok, yes
06:25<dihedral>ouch
06:25<dihedral>wow
06:25<@petern> total 94124K
06:25<@petern>already
06:25<@petern>102MB
06:25<planetmaker>:O
06:25<@petern>110MB
06:26<planetmaker>You'll need much hot-plugging ram :)
06:26<@petern>151MB
06:26<@petern>Rubidium hits the mark
06:27<@petern>petern 10777 0.5 0.1 176084 4860 pts/3 S+ 10:24 0:00 bin/openttd -D
06:27<@petern>heh
06:27<@petern>although
06:28<@petern>why i suspected it but didn't test this i don't know :o
06:31<dihedral>at least you know where to look for the bug in the code now :-D
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06:43<@petern> total 995684K
06:43<@petern>:o
06:43<@petern>that is most definitely the spot
06:44<@petern>petern 10777 0.3 0.1 1028468 6940 pts/3 S+ 10:24 0:04 bin/openttd -D
06:44<@petern>hehe
06:44<@petern>6.9MB resident, overwise
06:44<@petern>otherwise
06:44<@petern>however, advertising appears to use threads new
06:45<@petern>*now
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06:48<@petern>incidentally, valgrind does not see it ever
06:48<@petern>so that would never've helped
06:49<Noldo>it can't follow threads
06:49<Noldo>?
06:51<@petern>no idea
06:51<@petern>it doesn't see it as lost, anyway
06:53*petern removes the threading
06:53<@Rubidium>so we need to start garbage collecting fire and forget threads :(
06:53<@petern>i figured out what it does now
06:53<@petern>yeah
06:53<@petern>doesn't increase with the threading removied
06:53<@petern>removied!
06:54<@petern>what needs collection, though? :o
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06:56<@Rubidium>hmm, or detach the threads
06:56<@SmatZ>that unjoined thread can hardly leave 8MB :-x
06:56<@SmatZ>it is ~1,5kB for me...
06:57<@SmatZ>Rubidium: yesterday (or the day before yesterday?) you said detaching doesn't help
06:57<@SmatZ>though it's strange :)
06:57<@petern>give me a patch and i'll try it
06:57<@petern>it's fairly obviously reproducable for me :)
06:57<@Rubidium>SmatZ: it doesn't leave 8 MB
06:58<@Rubidium>it just doesn't tell the VM to release the stack region
06:59<@SmatZ>Rubidium: makes sense
06:59<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/thread.diff <- that might do the trick
07:00<dihedral>why does it have to run in it's own thread? or am i getting something wrong?
07:00<@petern>dihedral: name resolution may hang the server, basically
07:00<dihedral>ah
07:00<@petern>i think it's your fault
07:00<dihedral>yes, i recall mentioning it :-P
07:00<@petern>bananas locking it up...
07:00*petern applies the patch
07:00<dihedral>don't hurt me!
07:01<dihedral>but then - using bananas would also leak like hell
07:01<@petern>maybe it does!
07:01<dihedral>btw, if you moved the 'masterserver' and 'bananas' hostname to the config
07:02<dihedral>you could use an ip
07:02<dihedral>and it could be changed if you ever got a new ip
07:02<@Rubidium>and then get people whining because that IP got changed?
07:02<dihedral>or ip range
07:02<dihedral>then you'd not get the lookup at least ^^
07:02<dihedral>and people could run their own region based masterserver
07:02<@petern>right
07:02<@petern>that works sort of
07:02<dihedral>was just a wiled guess
07:02<@petern>it starts at 12MB
07:03<@petern>jumps to 20MB, but then stays there
07:03<dihedral>eh.... does it do a lookup each time it wants to advertise?
07:03<@petern>yup
07:03<dihedral>cache the lookup?
07:03<@petern>thing of long running servers...
07:03<@petern>why bother if this patch fixes it?
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07:04<dihedral>because it's unneeded overhead
07:04<@petern>a huge overhead
07:04<@petern>once every 15 minutes
07:04<dihedral>overhead is overhead
07:04<@Rubidium>the first 8 MB bump can be the stack that gets allocated and then it gets recycled
07:04<@petern>Rubidium, yeah, that's what i was thinking
07:04<@Rubidium>dihedral: it's less overhead than the gazillion people whining their server isn't advertised anymore when we move the masterserver again
07:04<@petern>still at 20MB
07:05<@petern>so unless there are side affects, that fixes it
07:05<dihedral>ok - cache the lookup for each game
07:05<dihedral>i.e. newgame does a new lookup
07:06<dihedral>then only the unmanaged game would not move to the new ms
07:06<dihedral>or not be advertised
07:06<@Rubidium>no would e.g. openttdcoop
07:06<@Rubidium>nor would e.g. dihedrals autonightly
07:06<dihedral>yes it would
07:06<@Rubidium>*until* a new game is loaded
07:06<@Rubidium>which might be 24 hours later
07:07<dihedral>openttdcoop is restarted more than once during a game iirc
07:07<@Rubidium>or even more
07:07<dihedral>my server restarts every 24h
07:07<@Rubidium>so it'd be 24 hours unadvertised
07:07<dihedral>+ there could be a console command to force emtpying the cached lookups
07:07<@petern>or
07:07<dihedral>but i get your point
07:07<@petern>just apply this tiny patch
07:07<dihedral>and ditch my though
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07:07<dihedral>*thought
07:08<@petern>hmm
07:08<@petern>i wonder how often ohloh checks mercurial repos
07:08<@Rubidium>or... add master.openttd.org to your hosts file and the lookup will be almost free
07:08<dihedral>Rubidium, nice idea ^^
07:09<@petern>we could hard code the IP!
07:09<@SmatZ>hehe
07:10<@petern>better yet
07:10<@petern>hard code the list of servers
07:10<dihedral>LOL
07:10<@SmatZ>:o)
07:10<dihedral>why does that thread need 8MB btw (just out of curiosity)
07:11<@Rubidium>$default-initial-stack-size
07:11<dihedral>ah
07:12<dihedral>btw - dns changes dont propagate that fast anyway, so you could cache the dns details in openttd for some time anyway :-D
07:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15663 /trunk/src/thread_pthread.cpp: -Fix: growing of vsize as (some) threads weren't properly released.
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07:12*dihedral looks forward to todays nightly
07:13<@SmatZ>does r15663 apply to win32 threads too?
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07:13<@Rubidium>no idea + have fun digging in Windows to find out
07:14<@petern>who knows
07:14<@petern>everyone expects windows to leak anyway :D
07:14<@SmatZ>ok :)
07:14<@SmatZ>hehe
07:14<@Rubidium>after all, what's 1 GB of vsize? After that you need to reboot windows anyways ;)
07:14<dihedral>LOL
07:16*dihedral hugs the devs
07:17<@SmatZ>:-)
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07:19*petern ponders trying to update pidgin to keep up with ICQ's client restrictions...
07:19<@petern>or just ditching icq finally :p
07:20<@petern>i have xmpp but nobody else does :o
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07:32<planetmaker>he :) good job :)
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07:45<sailo>aloahee. Somehow, I cannot get the console anymore by pressing ^ twice, like I used to do earlier. using 0.6.3. Any ideas? I don't always want to go to the menu up there in the game...
07:47<@petern>it's always been `
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07:49<sailo>well, for the german keyboard it was ^: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Console
07:49<planetmaker>it's always been the key left of 1
07:49-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:49<planetmaker>and it still is
07:49<sailo>yes, that's the one it was.
07:50<sailo>any ideas why it is not working in openttd anymore? I mean, it works otherwise: ^ ^
07:50<planetmaker>it works here.
07:50<planetmaker>on German keyboard(s)
07:51<sailo>ok, so why would it not work here?
07:51<planetmaker>Maybe you have a funnily working caps lock key?
07:51<dihedral>if i press the button twice, i dont get a console either, well i get it by pressing it once, and it dissapears magically again when i press the key a second time
07:51<dihedral>caps lock? :-D
07:51<Forked>planetmaker: or one of these: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/ae83/ :p
07:51<dihedral>or you changed the keyboard layout?
07:51<planetmaker>well. Configured such that it works on that key, too :)
07:51<dihedral>i.e. pressed alt+shift on a windows system
07:53<sailo>no, I tried several different keyboard layouts, nothing works. And I still have it: ^^ ^^ ;-)
07:53<@SmatZ>http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8396/ what key opens the console on this keyboard?
07:53<@petern>the ' ' key
07:54<@SmatZ>:o)
07:54<@petern>i'd totally have one of those if i could use flat keyboards these days
07:54<sailo>no, also not the ' key or " key
07:55<@SmatZ>:-)
07:56<[wito]>I have a german keyboard. ;D
07:56<[wito]>Das Keyboard III ;D
07:57*Forked hugs his G15
07:57<Forked>one at home, one at work.
07:58<@petern>yeah, with the correct non-US layout
07:58<@petern>bit expensive though
07:59<Forked>£65 for the one I have at home.. I got the job to pay for the one I use there.. and yes. Norwegian layout. V2 of the keyboard, so less G keys
07:59<sailo>ok guys. Sorry I got it. It was the keyboard layout. Didn't see that I had keyboard layout specific to the windows.
07:59<@petern>the das keyboard, i mean
07:59<@petern>i wouldn't pay 15p for a logitech keyboard
07:59<Forked>hah
08:02<@petern>heh, there are two versions of the G15
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08:05<Forked> at least it's not called v2.0 :)
08:11<planetmaker>Forked: now, that usb-"stick" is a nasty "feature" :P
08:12<Forked>it has potential
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08:35<taisteluorava>oh nice, 0.7.0 beta2 is now on site
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08:43<Ammler>a OT question, how do I checkout a deleted branch from svn?
08:43<Ammler>> svn -r 15000 list svn://svn.openttd.org/3rdparty
08:43<Ammler>svn: File not found: revision 15663, path '/3rdparty'
08:44<FauxFaux>That looks right, is that old enough?
08:44<@Rubidium>try adding @15000 to the url
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08:44<Ammler>Rubidium: yep, thanks :-)
08:45<@petern>hehe
08:45<@petern>nice
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08:46<taisteluorava>which way is easiest to upgrade 0.7.0beta1 to beta2?
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08:47<taisteluorava>so i can keep my old setups and settings in config file
08:48<Ammler>taisteluorava: the config is already stored in a other place then the binary.
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08:49<taisteluorava>so i can just "overinstall" with beta 2 installer?
08:49<@petern>yes
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08:52<taisteluorava>did it and now keep getting error "no available language packs (invalid versions?)
08:52<taisteluorava>i need change it to english in config file?
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08:53<@Rubidium>how did you install the previous versions?
08:53<@Rubidium>and did you use the installer this time?
08:53<taisteluorava>no, both time with installer
08:53<taisteluorava>using finnish language
08:54<taisteluorava>its not opening even with english
08:54<taisteluorava>same error
08:54<@Rubidium>that error means that there is no language pack at all for the version you've installed
08:55<@Rubidium>is there a lang directory in my documents/openttd ?
08:55<taisteluorava>no, its in openttd folder
08:57<@Rubidium>do a search for english.lng on your disks an see whether it shows up twice
08:57<taisteluorava>i overinstalled 1 more time and it work now
08:57<@Rubidium>that's odd
08:57<@Rubidium>sounds like the installer got aborted for some strange reason
08:58<taisteluorava>had game opened while first install was open, maybe for that ^^
08:58<@Rubidium>*VERY* likely
08:58<taisteluorava>forgot that i had game open ^^
08:58<@Rubidium>Windows doesn't like to replace opened files
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09:14<@petern>mmm, pepsi
09:16<welshdragon>mmmmm
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09:29<AmixE90>Pepsi is great
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09:35<dihedral>:-)
09:36<dihedral><Ammler> [13:43:17] a OT question, how do I checkout a deleted branch from svn? <- also svn help [<sub-command>] might be helpful!
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09:37<+glx>dihedral: use @rev
09:37<dihedral>it's help to how find help, glx ;-)
09:37<dihedral>not help to the specific question
09:37<+glx>yeah I read too quickly
09:37<dihedral>^^
09:38<@petern>:D
09:38<@petern>yfgi
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09:40<dihedral>a-whoody?
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09:42<@petern>typo :o
09:42<@petern>jfgi, heh
09:42<@petern>unfortunately, you can't say that to customers, for example
09:43<@petern>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=847240
09:43<@petern>hahaa
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09:49<taisteluorava>how i can load a game with server?
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09:50<taisteluorava>i tried command load (mypassword) C:\xxxxxx\xxx\xxxxx\OpenTTD\save\autosave\game1 but nothing happened
09:53<dihedral>iirc you must be in the dir of the save game
09:53<dihedral>or try appending the .sav
09:53<dihedral>and if all fails
09:53<dihedral>use the cd command and ls, find the number of the file you want to load and to a load <number>
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09:59<Peter2>sagt mal. in der linux amd64 version von ottd. wie komm ich da in die konsole? "^^" funzt bei mir iwie nicht
10:00<Peter2>how can i p
10:00<Peter2>how can i open the consol on a amd64 linux version of ottd?
10:00<Peter2>"^^" does not work for me
10:01<@Belugas>have you tried the " ~ "?
10:01<@petern>`
10:02<Peter2>no that doesn't work
10:02<+glx>it's the key above tab
10:02<Forked>|
10:03<@Rubidium>is there any window open that has an input field?
10:03<Peter2>no
10:03<@Rubidium>like the chat window or the rename <whatever> window
10:04<Peter2>no
10:05<@Rubidium>then I've got no idea as it works on my 64 bits machine
10:07<Peter2>i just opend the console
10:07<Peter2>by pressing ALT GR + ^
10:07<Peter2>wired
10:07<@petern>well
10:07<@petern>your solution is to use a proper keyboard layout ;)
10:08<Peter2>i am using the defaut german keybord layout
10:08<@petern>exactly!
10:09<Peter2>should i switch to a russian one?
10:11<[wito]>what's the maximum noise for a city?
10:12<[wito]>(wrt. airports)
10:12<@Belugas>it depends of the size of the city
10:13<[wito]>that much I got
10:13<@Belugas>that much i can tell you
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10:40<@Belugas>[wito] : return ((this->population / _settings_game.economy.town_noise_population[_settings_game.difficulty.town_council_tolerance]) + 3);
10:40<@Belugas>does that help you out?
10:41<[wito]>very much, thank you
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10:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15664 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Fix [FS#2716]: as always windows needs special handling when strings are involved
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12:02<@Belugas>lunch time!
12:05<Ammler>bon appetito
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12:07<planetmaker>enjoy :)
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12:20<+glx>Ammler: -o
12:21<Ammler>:-)
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12:55<|Japa|>http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/b1xbej64614fo35q3p5k.jpg
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12:56<|Japa|>some people have no sense of scale
12:56<@Belugas>hem...
12:56<[wito]>that's great
12:56<[wito]>and disturbing
12:58<|Japa|>would make a cool weapon, tho
12:58<@Belugas>...
12:58<|Japa|>or, if the aim is right, a great transportation
12:58<|Japa|>:P
12:58<@Belugas>cool... weapon...
12:58<@Belugas>brrrrrrr
12:58<@Belugas>like...
12:59<@Belugas>cannot put them togueter in my mind...
12:59<blathijs>What is it supposed to be anyway?
12:59<@Belugas>unless the said weapin was a flower... or a poem...
12:59<welshdragon>looks like a maglev depot
12:59<|Japa|>a guy on a furum I go to made the gun, and I'm trying to show him the whack scale
13:00<[wito]>Belugas: what about a robot that vaporizes Nazis and rescues puppies and kittens from trees at the same time?
13:00<energetic>it is actually a known serious design
13:00<energetic>with quite a chance to actually being built!
13:01<energetic>it consists of a maglev lane into the sky, skyrocketing out maglev trains
13:02<energetic>maglev trains then will fly (using the gained upward power) to their destination, where a maglev lane "catches" the maglev train and breaks it untill speed=zero
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13:03<energetic>so most power of the journey can be simply electrical energy
13:03<@petern>untillllllllllll
13:04<[wito]>of course
13:05<[wito]>a power outage at the receiving end would be quite catastrophical
13:06<[wito]>SkyMagLev: Really Friggin Cool Transportation for the Brave and the Foolhardy!
13:06<energetic>cant find direct links on the web
13:06<energetic>wonder where I read it
13:06<[wito]>Crazy-Ass Shit Online? :P
13:07<energetic>the idea was to use the stratosphere, so you actually get somewhere on earth
13:07<[wito]>but I've heard about a similar system for launching rockets
13:07<[wito]>basically a jet-sled railway launcher
13:07<energetic>if you needed to get on other side, you would need multiple stops (i though max 1-2)
13:07<energetic>yup
13:08<[wito]>mag-lev rocket launchers could potentially be quite safe and clean ways of launching sattelites into space
13:08<energetic>yeah
13:09<energetic>maglev has quite some future i think
13:09<energetic>if more ppl would think so...
13:11<planetmaker>the best weapon still is the human mind, an idea brought forward at the right time :)...
13:11<|Japa|>I just wish dirigibles would be more popular
13:11<planetmaker>[wito]: a maglev rocket launcher is not quite feasable...
13:12<planetmaker>you might have read it - as it's a classical Jules Verne invention
13:14<planetmaker>but it's anything but safe.
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13:27<Wolf01>hello
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13:28<@petern>hmm
13:28<@petern>snd_seq_open() apparently leaks memory :(
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13:38<[wito]>bridgeheads can be either level or elevated;
13:38<[wito]>why not do the same for tunnels?
13:38<[wito]>(think SC2K-style subway <-> rail transitions)
13:39<Burns>there should be a clear list in multiplayer serverlist menu, when selecting internet and clicking refresh then if you want to search for LAN games the list is still full with internet servers
13:40<Wolf01>[wito], do you mean a tunnel with the entrance on a plain tile?
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13:43<[wito]>Wolf01: indeed
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13:43<[wito]>a tunnel where one entrance "swallows" the train into the ground
13:48<Wolf01>but before that we need tunnels on diagonal slopes, one side will be terraformed, so you can build 2 parallel tunnels with an offset
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13:50<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=37992
13:50<@Belugas>i vaguely remember celestar and i working/discussing that concept
13:51<@Belugas>conclusion: useless
13:51<@Belugas>dig a hole, put the tunnel there
13:51<@Belugas>boom
13:51<@Belugas>plus, no graphics to use for...
13:52<@Belugas>and devs are soooo.... good with graphics..
13:52<@Belugas>apart skiddl13, but he's not around anymore
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13:53<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21377&hilit=tunnel <- half of the ideas in this topic are on trunk, I bet the other half might be possible in the nearest future
13:55<Wolf01>(this is a 2005 topic, don't revive it please :P)
13:55<@Rubidium>sorry, but you've lost your bet ;)
13:55<@Rubidium>what was the nearest future when you said that is now already the past and it's still not implemented
13:56<Wolf01>nearest as 1 day-to-6 months
13:56-!-Guest403 [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:56<@Rubidium>then it certainly isn't nearest
13:57<@Rubidium>it could be near future though
13:57<[wito]>tunnel through foundations, great stuff
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13:59<[wito]>anyway
14:00<[wito]>what do you all think of how to construct local parts of local-ICE networks?
14:00<Wolf01>cbh and basetunnels are better, but until somebody (not me) codes a good implementation we might have some minor features like that
14:00<[wito]>single-track spokes, shared track or dedicated 2-track spokes?
14:01<Wolf01>dedicated 8 parallel tracks :P
14:01<[wito]>:P
14:01<Wolf01>"transform your map on a mainboard"
14:01<planetmaker>Wolf01: are you sure that's sufficien capacity for those tracks?
14:03-!-Peter2 [~jack@dslb-082-083-214-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #openttd [Leaving]
14:03<Wolf01>depends on the length, if a train can't do 20 travels at month you can always make 8x2 tracks and use more trains
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14:33<Burns>how long does a crashed cerpelin lies at my airport?
14:33<energetic>3 months
14:33<energetic>iirc
14:34<|Japa|>what are disasters?
14:34<@Rubidium>13320 ticks?
14:34-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
14:34<|Japa|>something tells me they don't resemble the simcity ones
14:35<Burns>i just got a cerpelin from nowhere crached at my airport for example :(
14:35<@Belugas>ho... you Are not aware? Openttd is not simcity
14:35<frosch123>no, it is "tycoon something something"
14:36<@Belugas>or... something tycoon something :D
14:36<@Rubidium>so it stays about half a year
14:38-!-const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Quit: I'll be back]
14:38<Lakie>Transport Tycoon is about transport and not about making beautiful cities...
14:38<@Belugas>that long? i have totally forgotten
14:39<@Belugas>it's not??
14:39<@Belugas>ho my GOD!
14:39<@Belugas>;)
14:39<NukeBuster>why doesn't the content manager list all the entries? I can view more grfs on bananas.openttd.org
14:39<@Rubidium>because those you can't see in OpenTTD aren't compatible with that version according to the author
14:39<Lakie>ooo
14:40<Lakie>Content manager?
14:40<frosch123>BaNaNaS
14:40<@petern>hmm
14:41<@petern>did plane crashes ever get fixed for the reduced calls to the tick handler?
14:41<@Rubidium>prolly not
14:41-!-Dr_Jekyll [R4R@p57B0D22C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:41<Lakie>Interesting, when did this come around orginally I thought there was a concenous against it due to copy right issues around grfs?
14:43<Prof_Frink>The copyright owner has to put it on bananas in the first place
14:43<@Rubidium>instead of any random openttd binary redistributing it
14:43<|Japa|>reason I ask is because difficulty options have a disaster setting
14:43<@Rubidium>|Japa|: check the wiki page about disasters
14:44<|Japa|>ok
14:44<|Japa|>!wiki
14:44-!-|Japa| was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
14:44-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.192] has joined #openttd
14:44<energetic>!passwor no dont kick me
14:45<Burns>haha, what stupid script is that to kick just beacause you say !something?
14:45-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
14:45<@Rubidium>!something
14:45<+glx>it indicates where to use the command
14:46<Lakie>So basically, by having the original authors post them up, you can validate that they want it distribute through it and are willing to waver the copyright issues around that system distributing it to fans?
14:47<Burns>be kind to the noobs, they are the ones that are going to play your game, hopefully...
14:47<planetmaker>Lakie: they have to agree to the terms of servicew
14:47<Lakie>I see.
14:47<planetmaker>no one is forced to upload his/her grfs there.
14:47<@Rubidium>Lakie: they grant us to do so
14:47<planetmaker>^^
14:47<Lakie>Yeah.
14:47<planetmaker>better wording :)
14:48-!-Wolle [R4R@p57B0E572.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:48<Lakie>How do you deal with people who upload others work?
14:48<+glx>Burns: noobs usually don't know !commands so they don't type them
14:48<@Rubidium>Lakie: ban + removal
14:48<@petern>no, it wasn't
14:48<Lakie>Ok.
14:49<planetmaker>check http://bananas.openttd.org
14:51<Lakie>Oh, one last thing, it mentions an ingame client, does it check versions (like x only works with rR+) or was that unimplemented?
14:51<@Rubidium>yup
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14:51<Lakie>Neat
14:53<planetmaker>yup, very :)
14:54*Lakie reads up on the Wiki about it, 0.7 feature I'm assuming?
14:54<planetmaker>yep
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15665 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r8973): Handling of aircraft crash counter did not take account of the
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: reduced number of calls (from 6 down to 2) to the aircraft event handler,
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: resulting in crashed aircraft taking three times longer than they should to
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: clear. Compensate by increasing the counter by 3 on every call instead of 1.
14:55-!-db48x [~db48x@64.218.49.85] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo]
14:55<planetmaker>wow. That's an old fix :) 9k revisions nearly
14:55<Prof_Frink>Wrighty'll like that patch
14:55-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:56<@Rubidium>@calc 15665 - 8973
14:56<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 6692
14:56-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
14:57<+glx>planetmaker is very good at math ;)
14:57<planetmaker>:P
14:57<@Rubidium>@base 10 9 6692
14:57<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 10155
14:57<planetmaker>Astrophysicist do maths by orders of magnitude only :P
14:58<planetmaker>the rest is observational error anyway :P
14:58<planetmaker>@base 10 8 6692
14:58<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 15044
14:58<planetmaker>hm...
14:59<@Rubidium>@base 11 10 6692
14:59<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8813
14:59<planetmaker>:)
14:59<@Rubidium>that's closest one can get I'd say ;)
14:59*planetmaker hugs Rubidium
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14:59<@petern>heh
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15:01<@Rubidium>hmm... that thing's still alive?
15:01<@Rubidium>petern: quickly highlight everyone ;)
15:02-!-const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd
15:02<@petern>@users
15:02<@petern>@nicks
15:02<@DorpsGek>petern: [sleep]buster, [wito], Aali, Ammler, Andel, apo_, Belugas, Bergee, blathijs, Born_Acorn, Brokkoli, Burns, canidae, ccfreak2k, CIA-1, const86, Cybertinus, DaleStan, Darkvater, DASPRiD, db48x, De_Ghosty, DephNet[Paul], dfox, dihedral, DorpsGek, Dr_Jekyll, edeca, elmex, energetic, eQualizer, FauxFaux, Felicitus, FloSoft, Forked, frosch123, Fuco, George, glx, goodger, Guest1044, guru3, HansAffe, helb, HerzogDeXtEr, (2 more messages)
15:02<@petern>@more
15:02<@DorpsGek>petern: jpm_, KenjiE20, KingJ, Lakie, lobster, lolman, lstor, M4rk, Maarten-, Mark, michi_cc, mikegrb, Mortomes, MrFrans, Mucht, murr4y_, neli, nfc, Noldo, NukeBuster, orudge, Osai, OwenS, petern, PierreW, planetmaker, prakti, Prof_Frink, Progman, racetrack, Rexxars, Ridayah_, Rubidium, Sacro, sexten, sigmund_, Sionide, SmatZ, smeding, snorre, SpBot, SpComb, SpComb^, Splex, stillunknown, strid, stuffcorpse, sunkan, (1 more message)
15:02<@petern>@more
15:02<@DorpsGek>petern: svip, taisteluorava, tapio, Tefad, TheMask96, thingwath, TinoDidriksen, tneo, tokai, tosse, totalwormage, TSC, valhalla1w, Vikthor, welshdragon, welterde, Wolf01, wolfy, XeryusTC, Yeggstry, Yexo, Zahl, |Japa|, and |Jeroen|
15:02<@petern>that one?
15:02<@petern>hmm
15:02<@Rubidium>yup ;)
15:02<MrFrans>o.O
15:03<Osai>grrr
15:03<planetmaker>uhm.... ? :P
15:03<KenjiE20>lol
15:03<@petern>when did we get heightmap and scenario support in bananas?
15:03<goodger>GAH
15:03<db48x>lol
15:03*Mortomes stabs petern
15:03<Lakie>Heh
15:03<FauxFaux>Quick, respond!
15:03<Osai>you highlight0rs
15:03*Prof_Frink hugs petern
15:03<Ammler>.
15:03<@Rubidium>petern: few days ago
15:03*Lakie downloads x64 0.7 to try out Bananas
15:03<@petern>that was sneaky :D
15:03-!-wolfy is now known as Wolfensteijn
15:04<+glx>many real idlers
15:04<@petern>tip guys, if you get upset by a little highlight, don't bother idling without ever saying anything :p
15:04<smeding>i talk! sometimes
15:04<eQualizer>?
15:04<Wolfensteijn>I'm not upset ;)
15:04<Prof_Frink>Didnae highlight me
15:04<@petern>Prof_Frink!
15:04<Prof_Frink>That did.
15:04<MrFrans>I don;t think anyone is upset,
15:04<totalwormage>well i am!
15:05*MrFrans stabs totalwormage
15:05<@petern>"grrr" "GAH" "*stabs*" "." :D
15:05<totalwormage>;]
15:05<@petern>oh there's a mars heightmap hmm
15:05<@petern>and a Wales and Westengland (wtf?) scenario...
15:05<db48x>ooh, cool
15:06<Ammler>I hope, nobody will license the scenario with ND
15:06<@petern>ND?
15:06<@Belugas>Whale? where?
15:06<Ammler>no derviate or so = no playing ;-)
15:06<planetmaker>Ammler: it's already too late
15:06<frosch123>petern: and a hand-drawn usa scenario 2k x 2k oO
15:07<planetmaker>Netherlands scenario is
15:07<@petern>wow, that'll be fun
15:07-!-lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:07<@petern>hehe with signs at the start which are off the screen
15:07<@petern>because people assume their centre is the same as everyone else's
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15:11<@Darkvater>evil mass-hilite
15:11<Yexo>Ammler: playing is fine, uploading the savegame is debatable
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15:12<@petern>Darkvater <3
15:13<@Darkvater>:)
15:13<@Darkvater>you have awaken me from my slumber
15:13<Ammler>is it possible to get rid of that apache error msg: [Tue Mar 10 20:10:28 2009] [error] [client 91.0.150.4] Not trusting file /home/ottdc/hg-repos/is2/.hg/hgrc from untrusted user ottdc, group ottdc
15:13<@Darkvater>fear for you do not know what you force you have unleashed upon this earth
15:13<Ammler>if yes, how?
15:13<@petern>don't use apache :D
15:14<Wolf01>[20:06:26] <Ammler> I hope, nobody will license the scenario with ND <- I was attracted from it, but at last I chose SA :P
15:14<@Darkvater>!seen truebrain
15:14<@Darkvater>@seen truebrain
15:14<@DorpsGek>Darkvater: truebrain was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 31 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> I hope it pays money
15:14<@Darkvater>I hope so too
15:14<@Darkvater>hmm I wonder how I can make lighttpd hide certain files in a dir-listing
15:15<@Darkvater>ah; dir-listing.exclude
15:15<@Darkvater>cool
15:16<Ammler>:-D thanks Yexo
15:16<Wolf01>I don't know if I made a mistake... I think I selected 0.6.3 for the alpine scenario with freeform map edges
15:16*Wolf01 browses the content manager
15:16<@petern>delete them :D
15:16<Yexo>Wolf01: you can still change that
15:16<@Darkvater>stupid windows receratesdfsed thumbs.db :s
15:16<Ammler>Wolf01: there is only one realy usable license on that list or 2, if you count the versions
15:17<Wolf01>I think CC-BY-NC-SA for scenarios is the best
15:17<Ammler>what is bad with GPL?
15:20<Wolf01>scenarios are like pictures, like heightmaps are, so I think it is better the CC, as you don't need to provide the source code because there isn't source code, it is modifiable by the ingame editor, like a music or a photo
15:20<db48x>yea, the GPL is a little odd for some kinds of information
15:20<db48x>it's rather specific to computer programs
15:22<Wolf01>ok, minimal version: nightly, i need to put rxxxx on the textbox or it does already assume the head revision?
15:24<Yexo>you need to put some version there
15:24<Yexo>I think without the r prefix
15:26<Wolf01>I don't remember the exact rev of introduction for freeform map edges... I think I'll put something like 15000
15:27<Wolf01>wow... we already passed 15000, we are near 20000 (let's do another party) :D
15:27<@petern>what version did you use to make the scenario?
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15:28<Yexo>Wolf01: r15190
15:28<Wolf01>eh, do you think I can remember that? I update at least twice a week
15:28<Yexo>but if you used a later version to create your scenario you need to fill in that value
15:29<Wolf01>uhm... we should write the version on the scenario/savegame
15:29<Wolf01>for sure I did the latest modification on 2008-01-24
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15:30<Aali>hmm
15:30<Yexo>Wolf01: swamp reloaded was saved with r14172
15:30<Aali>is hg.openttd.org known to be broken/down?
15:31<Yexo>alphine reloaded with r15209
15:31<Wolf01>good
15:31<Yexo>Aali: works for me
15:31<Wolf01>how do you found that?
15:31<Aali>I get connection timed out for all my repos :/
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15:31<Yexo>open the scenario and execute 'gamelog' in the console
15:31<Wolf01>ah
15:31<Aali>works again
15:31<Aali>odd
15:31<Wolf01>good to know
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15:34<Wolf01>I can open the index of hg, but when I try to browse them I get things like http://hg.openttd.org/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/
15:35<Wolf01>the rss feed doesn't work, luckily there is CIA around
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15:37<Wolf01>db48x, I read about your patch on the forum, what do it does with the ctrl key?
15:37<db48x>nothing quite yet
15:37-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:38<db48x>I want to be able to use terraforming commands without having to separately bulldoze everything that's in the way
15:39<Wolf01>really risky
15:39<db48x>so if I need to raise some land, rather than first deleting the track, raising it, finding out that I didn't delete enough, deleting more track and then raising it again
15:39<db48x>I would prefer that raising the land be able to do the necessary bulldozing automatically
15:39<db48x>subject, of course, to the normal rules for bulldozing
15:39<db48x>can't bulldoze industries, track with trains on it, etc
15:40<db48x>but yes, it could be a risky thing to do
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15:40<db48x>so the patch that I've posted modifies the terraforming code so that it highlights all the squares where something is in the way, rather than just the first one
15:40<Wolf01>think about raising a tile in the middle of a junction
15:40<db48x>that way you can see exactly what will have to go before you actually do the tf
15:41<db48x>if you subsequently do the tf with control (or whatever) held down, it goes ahead and bulldozes as needed
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15:42<db48x>Wolf01: http://db48x.net/temp/Narcotics,%20Inc.,%2028th%20Oct%202268.png
15:44<@petern>you could've moved the error box first :D
15:44<Wolf01>I think that's enough, I don't feel useful the other piece you want, but it's your patch so go ahead (but I suggest you to keep the two pieces separate)
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15:45<db48x>yea, planetmaker also suggested keeping the two halves separate
15:45<db48x>petern: error box?
15:46<Wolf01>the red popup which is under the chat messages
15:46<db48x>ah
15:47-!-apexgaming [apexgaming@e177235101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
15:47<apexgaming>hey suP?
15:47<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/Narcotics,%20Inc.,%206th%20Nov%202268.png
15:47<db48x>:)
15:48<apexgaming>that looks boring
15:48*Belugas yawns and watches the clock go ont tick after the other
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15:51<db48x>http://db48x.net/temp/Narcotics,%20Inc.,%2018th%20Nov%202268.png
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15:57<db48x>hmm
15:57<db48x>tunnels are tricky
15:58<Yexo>I like the sign in that screenshot: "Fixed desyncs /Bennythen00b"
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15:59<Aali>because you think they are the gamestate kind of desyncs?
16:00<Yexo>that was indeed the first thing I thought of when reading it
16:01<Aali>would be nice if you could fix those by rearranging some track :P
16:02<db48x>that would be pretty cool
16:03<Aali>I guess sometimes you can fix them by doing just that, atleast temporarily ;)
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16:41<planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/translator.png <-- the links below, which are my name and the revision return errors
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16:41<planetmaker>I also wonder when those links show up - most other strings don't have that "feature" - even though I last changed them.
16:45<planetmaker>oh... well, the image is a screenshot from translator2.openttd.org :)
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16:46<@petern>hmm?
16:46<@petern>heh
16:46<@petern>so that's what it looks like :p
16:47<@Rubidium>planetmaker: see it as a misfeature ;)
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16:55<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>hey is there a way for any kind of team play in 0.6.3 openTTD?
16:56<@Belugas>hem...
16:56<@Belugas>i would guess so...
16:56<frosch123>sure, you can join the same company
16:56<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>but then you spend the same cash,right?
16:57<frosch123>yes
16:57-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>damn
16:57-!-JapaMala is now known as |Japa|
16:57<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>oh well,tnx anyway
16:58<@Belugas>Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`, or you simply make it so that two companies are leagued togueter
16:58<@Belugas>but you wont share the tracks nor the cash
16:58-!-helb [~helb@84.244.90.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>hmmm?tell me more :D
16:58<@Belugas>well... tell a buddy... "hey man, want to work with me?"
16:58<frosch123>maybe you are looking for "infrastructure sharing", but that is not part of 0.6.3 nor any other offical version
16:58<@Belugas>if so, you're in business :)
16:59<Ungl`ch`chlchlwr`>lol
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17:05<planetmaker>Rubidium: ok, thx
17:05<planetmaker>I just wondered
17:06<@Rubidium>I kinda broke the history feature a while back, though it fixed some outrageous memory wastage
17:06-!-Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
17:06<planetmaker>he :)
17:07<@Rubidium>and now only new strings get history again
17:08<planetmaker>Strings introduced new since then?
17:09<@Rubidium>yup
17:09<planetmaker>interesting :)
17:09<planetmaker>I just wondered - it's interesting to see the history, but definitely nothing necessary
17:10<planetmaker>but then: the history doesn't work, at least the windows opened have xml(?) error. Need to check for the exact error again
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17:12<planetmaker>Just for completeness sake: Error loading stylesheet: An XSLT stylesheet does not have an XML mimetype:http://translator2.openttd.org/styles/xslt/revisiondata.xslt
17:13<planetmaker>that's what the pop-up windows contain.
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17:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15666 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine_func.h engine_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#2689]: sorting of engines in the purchase list didn't use the same numbers as the GUI showed, e.g. articulated parts weren't taken into accound when ordering by capacity.
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17:33<[wito]>I think there's something wrong with Terragen when using freeform edges
17:33<[wito]>all the maps have bad Chi
17:33<[wito]>They don't jive with my Feng-Shui
17:34<[wito]>Anyone else have this problem?
17:34<Yexo>Chi? Feng-Shui?
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17:34<Yexo>[wito]: sorry, but I have no idea what you just said
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17:35<[wito]>Yexo: it's an ineffable feeling of 'uglyness', if you will
17:35<[wito]>it's a bit hard to explain. :P
17:35<Yexo>it's an ineffable feeling of 'uglyness' <- I can understand that at least :)
17:35<planetmaker>then make it nice and present your idea on how to fix it :P
17:36<[wito]>terragen is a fractal terrain generator, ya?
17:37<Yexo>no, it makes use of perlin noise
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17:43<taisteluorava>how i can get that toolbar which is top of picture, now i got old and ugly 1 :) http://db48x.net/temp/Narcotics,%20Inc.,%2018th%20Nov%202268.png
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17:44<Aali>and now you want the new and ugly one?
17:45<taisteluorava>that is not my screenshot
17:45<taisteluorava>i like toolbar like in that picture
17:45<taisteluorava>oh, "i want
17:45<Aali>I don't
17:46<Yexo>taisteluorava: find out what newgrf was in use at the time the screenshot was taken, and download it
17:48<[wito]>Is it possible to reach a station rating of 100%?
17:48<@Rubidium>yes
17:50<energetic>now try transporting 100% of an industr ;)
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17:52<planetmaker>:)
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17:55<db48x>taisteluorava: it's a replacement graphic
17:55-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
17:55<db48x>taisteluorava: see the wiki
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17:57<db48x>Yexo: Perlin noise is a kind of fractal
17:57<db48x>it's scale-independant
17:57<db48x>it's just not very pretty, like a mandelbrot set
17:58<Yexo>db48x: I wasn't aware of that, thanks for explaining
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17:58<Yexo>[wito]: ^^
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17:59<db48x>it's also random, rather than merely chaotic
18:00<+glx>taisteluorava: looks like 32bpp
18:02<db48x>yea, I'm using some of the 32bpp replacement graphics
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18:03<[wito]>db48x: it also seems to have bad Chi
18:04<db48x>well, it's random
18:05<db48x>random numbers rarely come up in a nice orderly way
18:05<db48x>you need a sort of un-Chi
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18:05<db48x>a Chi of unorderly things
18:05<db48x>a sort of Mu for the spatial arrangement of objects
18:06<db48x>perhaps that's what the western approach already is?
18:06<db48x>I'm not an expert
18:06<[wito]>perhaps
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18:06<[wito]>That would be one hell of a patch, tho'
18:06<[wito]>ChiTerraGen. :P
18:08<db48x>heh
18:08<db48x>I think that there's a lot of room for improvement in both map generators
18:08<[wito]>Indeed
18:08<db48x>merely using perlin noise doesn't always result in good maps
18:08<db48x>they have a tendency to be very bland
18:13<SpComb>genetic map algorithm
18:14<athanasios>wikipedia mentions wavelet noise. Can that be of any benefit?
18:15<athanasios>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelet_noise
18:17<db48x>not really
18:18<db48x>wavelet noise was designed to counter a limitation that you see when you use 3d perlin noise to create a 2d texture that gets wrapped around a 3d surface
18:18<db48x>we're just using 2d perlin noise to create a hieght map
18:19<athanasios>any other alternative?
18:21<db48x>the solution to the perlin-noise blandness problem is simply to not do the same thing every time
18:22<db48x>choose the octaves that you include in a more random fashion
18:22<db48x>so rather than always using N octaves of noise, sometimes leave out an octave in the middle
18:22<db48x>that or add an extra octave out past the end
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18:22<db48x>that gives the maps a different character
18:26<planetmaker>[23:06] <[wito]> That would be one hell of a patch, tho' <-- it would be easy in that sense, that it is "just" a 3rd replacement for the terrain generator. E.g. you don't have too many interconnection, especially modification, of existing code.
18:27<athanasios>does it worth the effort?
18:27<db48x>yea, any patch that adds more variety to the maps seems like it would be worth the effort
18:28<[wito]>planetmaker: well, actually the patch itself isn't such a biggie
18:28<[wito]>but writing a terrain generator that (reliably) produces maps with good Chi
18:28<[wito]>now there!
18:28<[wito]>There you have a CHALLENGE!
18:28<planetmaker>I have sufficient. Thank you :P
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18:32<athanasios>Actually the problem with current generator is in the larger maps. It will be an issue if extra large maps hit trunk. But I suppose this will not be soon.
18:32<db48x>perhaps larger maps need an extra octave or so of low-frequency noise
18:33<Yexo>athanasios: as has been said before: nobody has shown full 2048x2048 savegame, so why allow even bigger maps?
18:34<athanasios>that is why I said that it will not be soon...
18:34<athanasios>I do not need bigger maps either.
18:34<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/good_chi.diff <- reliably makes TGP maps with good chi
18:35<db48x>haha
18:35<planetmaker>lool @ Rubidium :)
18:36<Yexo>:)
18:36<athanasios>:-)
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18:47<db48x>Rubidium: hey, got a minute to take a look at another patch of mine?
18:48<db48x>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=107395
18:54<Wolf01>'notte
18:54<Wolf01>'night
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19:02<DASPRiD>planetmaker, warum wedelt der hund mit dem schwanz? -- weil der hund schlauer ist, als der schwanz. wäre der schwanz schlauer als der hund, würder er mit dem hund wedeln.
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19:11<sailo>hey, I just discovered something new: I cannot build a bus station in a town, it says the street is local property of the community or something like that. What is that?
19:12<sailo>(german: straße ist in kommunaler trägerschaft)
19:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15667 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15601)[FS#2718]: It was possible to remove rail tunnels/bridges and aqueducts build by rival companies.
19:18<Yexo>sailo: go to Advanced Settings->Stations and enable "Allow drive-through road stops on town owned roads"
19:23<sailo>ah okay. it is disabled from the server. thanks.
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19:54<haclet>hi
19:54<haclet>I have a problem with compilation OpenTTD
19:54-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:54<Yexo>haclet: what OS/compiler are you using?
19:55<haclet>I am supprise because I didn't have that problem before (since more then one year) am successfully compiled it on Suse/10.2 (linux) g++
19:55<haclet>These are following errors:
19:55<haclet>openttd/src/console_cmds.cpp: In function ‘bool ConLoad(byte, char**)’:
19:55<Yexo>and what is the error message you get? (please post to paste.openttd.org if it's long)
19:55<haclet>openttd/src/console_cmds.cpp:252: error: ‘_switch_mode’ was not declared in this scope
19:55<haclet>ok - one moment
19:56<Yexo>not needed anymore
19:56<@Rubidium>sounds like makedepend not doing it's job
19:56<haclet>I know that is something missing, the question what :)
19:56<Yexo>haclet: try make clean && make
19:56<haclet>ok - give me 1 min :)
19:58<haclet>Nope - the same on console_cmds.cpp
19:59<haclet>I noticed that a few days ago. I regullary run svnupdate - and always was OK.
19:59<Yexo>what version are you trying to compile?
19:59-!-racetrack [~rob@lena.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:59<haclet>the last from subversion
20:00<haclet>Run svnup.sh and make clean && ./configure && make --- error.
20:00-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00<Yexo>./configure is not needed after make clean, but doesn't matter either
20:00<haclet>checking makedepend... makedepend
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20:04<Yexo>haclet: I have no idea what could cause/solve that error.
20:04<Yexo>maybe 'touch src/openttd.h' works?
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20:08<haclet>Yexo: Wait - think I fix it ...
20:08<haclet>Let you know soon - compilation in progress - no errors, console_cmd.cpp compiled already, soon we will see.... Finished
20:09<haclet>Yexo: is working now - compilation sucessfull.
20:09<haclet>Ok - don't know what's happen and etc.
20:10<haclet>But I tried run again svnup.sh - And got some svn error about directory: src/3rdparty/squirrel
20:10<haclet>I removed that directory from my version, and again run svnup.sh,
20:11<haclet>configure, and helped - openttd has been compiled without any problems
20:11<haclet>Yexo: Thx for help.
20:11<Yexo>no problem, good to know it's working again
20:12<haclet>It's to late for me to play, soon I will try find some time to relax :)
20:12<haclet>Yexo: See you later.
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21:40<@Belugas>mmh
21:40<@Belugas>deserted channel
21:40<@Belugas>all is quiet
21:41*MrFrans gobbles
21:45<@Belugas>that's in the dictionnary??
21:48<athanasios>my eyes are heavy...
21:50<@Belugas>put some helium in them
21:52<athanasios>eyelids are better, will go to sleep a few minutes later.
21:53<goodger>Belugas: yes, gobble means to eat messily and quickly; inserting helium in eyelids is not good ¬.¬
21:53<athanasios>:-)
21:53<@Belugas>i see...
21:54<@Belugas>goodger, still have not yet found out any new emoticons ? ;)
21:54<goodger>this one suffices for nearly all my messages ¬.¬
21:54<athanasios>I cannot see anymore. Goodnight to all.
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21:56<@Belugas>right
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21:57<goodger>bagel \o/
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22:01<@Belugas>bed!
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22:44<db48x>hrm
22:45<db48x>is openttd known to deadlock in pthread_join (called from SDL) on exit?
22:46<Yexo>no
22:49<db48x>somehow I doubted it
22:50<db48x>but, somehow I doubt my patch to the terraforming code has much to do with it
22:51<db48x>#0 0x00000035c2007cb5 in pthread_join (threadid=140220056156496, thread_return=0x0) at pthread_join.c:89
22:51<db48x>#1 0x0000003f79a1116e in SDL_WaitThread (thread=0x2246da0, status=0x0) at src/thread/SDL_thread.c:270
22:51<db48x>#2 0x0000003f79a08daa in SDL_AudioQuit () at src/audio/SDL_audio.c:629
22:51<db48x>#3 0x0000003f79a082bd in SDL_QuitSubSystem (flags=16) at src/SDL.c:196
22:51<db48x>#4 0x00000000005a3359 in SoundDriver_SDL::Stop ()
22:51<db48x>#5 0x0000000000546018 in ttd_main ()
22:53<db48x>hmm
22:53<db48x>it only seems to happen when I have Gizmo running
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 11 00:00:46 2009