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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-11

---Logopened Wed Mar 11 00:00:46 2009
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01:55<el_en>hej på alla
01:55<Forked>greetings
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03:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15668 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: a few typos.
03:32-!-Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd
03:32<Celestar>\o
03:32<Forked>heya Celestar
03:33<Celestar>how's life Forked?
03:33<Forked>do you want a detailed explanation or should I go with the short version? =p
03:33<Celestar>short version for the time being?
03:34<Forked>pretty good, just a bit sleepy
03:34<Celestar>good :P
03:35<@petern>Celestar: cargodest
03:35<@petern>:p
03:35<Forked>gf is going out of town today to meet the guy we rented the last apartment from.. he owes us quite alot of money and is being difficult. It's a last-attempt-before-court thing. Both sides present their side and some dude makes a decision
03:36<Celestar>petern: yes.
03:36<Celestar>petern: I'll attempt a sync with trunk toda y;)
03:36<@petern>\o/
03:36<Forked>\o/ indeed. :D
03:36<Yexo>good luck with that :)
03:37<Celestar>I said: attempt :P
03:37<Celestar>not "do"
03:37<Celestar>writing a dissertation sucks, you know that? ...
03:38<Celestar>note to self: don't upgrade a working XP system. had a fine system, did an online upgrade, now it doesn't boot O_o
03:39<Celestar>@logs
03:39<Celestar>er .. wtf is BaNaNas?
03:39<Noldo>:D
03:39<Yexo>Celestar: the content server
03:39<Yexo>bananas.openttd.org
03:42<Celestar>hr. nice :D
03:43<Noldo>Celestar: you don't happen to know how the old terrain generator uses the sprites it uses?
03:43<Celestar>Noldo: elaborate?
03:44<Noldo>most of them are only blue and pink in color and I don't get what the different colors mean
03:57<@petern>q
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04:03<@petern>colour is height
04:13<@petern>blue'll be 0, pink'll be 1, etc (iirc)
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04:15<Noldo>there were mountains made of shades of gray that were easy to understands
04:16<Noldo>the pink seemed odd because it had zero blue and green
04:16<Noldo>so does it take the height from only the red value
04:18<Yexo>Noldo: doesn't it just take the color index without looking at the actual color?
04:26<@petern>er
04:26<@petern>yes, it's colour index, not colour value
04:27<Noldo>aha, then it's not supricing I didn't understand it at all :D
04:27<Yexo>btw, does the original map generator work for you with opengfx?
04:30<@petern>no :)
04:36<@petern>seems to end up with invalid tile types...
04:37<Yexo>indeed, but I have no idea how that can happen
04:39<@petern>there's no range limits
04:41<dihedral>hello
04:41<dihedral>uh - a Celestar
04:41<dihedral>:-)
04:41<Celestar>aye :P
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04:43<@petern>basically if the map templates are invalid they shouldn't be used :)
04:44<Yexo>petern: and how would you determine if the map templates are invalid?
04:44<@petern>i'm trying to figure that out :p
04:45<Yexo>hehe :)
04:45<@petern>for instance, if the delta between adjacent points is greater than 1, it's invalid
04:45<Yexo>that's possible the case for opengfx, iirc they just used random noise for those templates
04:47<@petern>ok
04:48<@petern>sprites 52 to 88 of opengfxir.pcx, right?
04:48<@petern>those are most definitely invalid :D
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04:49<@petern>maybe
04:50<@petern>i have an idea
04:50<@petern>but i'm going to work :o
04:50<dihedral>have a nice day petern
05:06<@petern>thanks
05:06<@petern>anyway
05:07<@petern>if the top left corner (i.e. the first byte of data) is not 0 (or possibly 1), it must be invalid...
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05:20<planetmaker>good morning
05:21<dihedral>oi
05:21<Yexo>morning planetmaker
05:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15669 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Change: Key presses that are not handles by an input box are no longer marked as handled but given to other OnKeyPress handlers. This makes the global shortcuts like F1 work again when an input box is open.
05:21<planetmaker>:) Hey
05:22<dihedral>nice :-)
05:22<planetmaker>jo
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05:22<dihedral>hehe
05:22<dihedral>and who is the Guest op?
05:23<Yexo>I have no idea
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05:24<planetmaker>...nl
05:24<planetmaker>:P
05:25<dihedral>yeah ^^
05:26<Yexo>that doesn't really tell us who it is, does it?
05:26<planetmaker>nope :P
05:26<Forked>@logs
05:26<Forked>hm, guess not
05:26<Forked>@log
05:26<Forked>:)
05:26<planetmaker>!logs
05:26<dihedral>!logs
05:26<dihedral>^^
05:26<Forked>doh
05:26<planetmaker>:D
05:27<dihedral>where is the spbot?
05:27<Forked>nothing there either? =p
05:27<taisteluorava>!logs
05:27<dihedral>hmmm
05:27<planetmaker>slow, taisteluorava ;)
05:27<taisteluorava>:)
05:27<Yexo>http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd-2009.html <- that page has logs
05:27<dihedral>not just slow - his reading lags mor than his response time ^^
05:28<dihedral>Yexo: i love thegrebs ;-)
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05:30<DASPRiD>dihedral, warum wedelt der hund mit dem schwanz? -- weil der hund schlauer ist, als der schwanz. wäre der schwanz schlauer als der hund, würder er mit dem hund wedeln.
05:30<Forked>bah, their search function is borked
05:30<Yexo>ah, Guest1044 is Darkvater
05:31<dihedral>DASPRiD: LOL
05:31<dihedral>Darkvater: just read your mail - that is awesome
05:32<dihedral>me likies
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05:37<@petern>it was obviously darkvater from the /whois...
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06:30<racetrack>I've just tried to bulldoze a bridge in some town near the bottom of the map, and I get "can't clear this area, owned by Melow". Melow happens to be the town closest to the north east of the map, a billion miles away. is that a bug or something that makes sense if you look at it from the right angle?
06:30<racetrack>I don't care, doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I'll file a bug if its actually a bug
06:31<dihedral>and there is no company with that name?
06:31<racetrack>nope, I'm the only player
06:32<dihedral>and there was no company by that name some time before
06:32<racetrack>nope, it was always just me
06:32<dihedral>what version of OpenTTD are you playing?
06:32<racetrack>0.7.0-beta2
06:32<racetrack>oh also info tool on that square says its owned by the town the bridge is actually in
06:33<dihedral>then make a bug report and dont forget to upload your savegame ;-)
06:33<racetrack>excellent. thanks for confirming :)
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06:40<racetrack>interesting, its actually any bridge on the map .. well, from testing a few dozen
06:40<racetrack>more to add to the report, heh
06:44<dihedral>... are you playing a patched game?
06:44<Yexo>dihedral: no, it's a problem in trunk
06:44<dihedral>ah - perfect :-)
06:45<dihedral>just wanted to rule that out
06:45<racetrack>ahh
06:45<racetrack>Yexo: so its a known issue? should I bother with a report then?
06:45<Yexo>another problem introduced in r15601
06:45<Yexo>racetrack: it's known since you reported it here :)
06:45<dihedral>@openttd commit 15601
06:45<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Commit by rubidium :: r15601 /trunk (19 files in 4 dirs) (2009-03-02 22:57:47 UTC)
06:45<@DorpsGek>dihedral: -Fix [FS#2615]: bridges/tunnels don't store tram owner making it possible to remove someone's tram tracks.
06:45<@DorpsGek>dihedral: -Feature: allow building road stops on road/tram tracks of competitors.
06:45<dihedral>:-)
06:46<@Rubidium>that again shows how well the nightlies are tested and how much the lack of bug reports for them doesn't tell it's stable AT ALL
06:46<dihedral>yes
06:46<dihedral>but then the past
06:47<dihedral>eh...
06:47<dihedral>forget it
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06:48<racetrack>well it got caught in a beta, thats what betas are for, right?
06:48<racetrack>:)
06:48<@Rubidium>very true
06:49<@Rubidium>but there's lots of people saying that the stable is more buggy than the nightlies and this just proves that the lack of bugreports for the nightlies doesn't mean it isn't bug free
06:50<racetrack>yeah .. many less people looking at nightlies I expect.
06:51<@Rubidium>there's on average 300 nightly downloads a day
06:51<@Rubidium>that excludes everyone that build it themselves though
06:52<@Rubidium>and 10 000 beta1 downloads
06:52<@Rubidium>over a period of a bit more than 2 weeks
06:52<@petern>heh
06:52<@Rubidium>@calc 10000/22
06:52<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 454.545454545
06:52<racetrack>hmm not so far apart
06:53<@petern>22 is over 3 weeks
06:54<@Rubidium>stupid star wars character
06:56<@petern>?
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06:57<@Rubidium>petern: Obi-Wan Kenobi
06:57<@petern>oh
06:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15670 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15601): The owner of both the road and of the tram tracks was checked, but not the owner of the road itself.
06:58<Yexo>racetrack: problem fixed ^^
06:59<Yexo> but not the owner of the road itself. <-- s/road/bridge/ :p
07:00<@petern>Yexo, checking for invalid template sprites doesn't help either
07:00<@petern>you end up with a map that is all water
07:01<Yexo>petern: then we'll follow Rubidiums advice: just close all reports as "broken base graphics"
07:01<racetrack>owned by Treborough
07:01<racetrack>fix looks good
07:01<racetrack>Yexo: good stuff, thanks :)
07:01<@petern>which is okay in the scenario editor but as there are no towns it stops the game :/
07:04<Yexo>petern: Can you reliable detect invalid template sprites?
07:04<Yexo>if so, maybe you can disable the original map generator in those cases
07:05<@petern>hmm
07:05<@petern>possible
07:05<@petern>basically a template must not have a value greater than 1 on any edge
07:06<@petern>and inside that it must not a delta greater than 1
07:06<@petern>+have
07:06<@petern>checking the first data point is enough to check opengfx
07:06<@petern>otoh, a complete check only has to be done for one sprite -- if you're doing the templates properly you'll be doing them all
07:07<@petern>or you can loop them all :D
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07:30<planetmaker>[11:46] <Rubidium> that again shows how well the nightlies are tested and how much the lack of bug reports for them doesn't tell it's stable AT ALL <--- well, yeah :) But mostly playing with always the latest nightly, those bugs don't persist normally too long :) You're all usually doing a great job in being quick about them :)
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07:55<Celestar>wth is going on in stuttgart O_o
07:55<@petern>well
07:55<@petern>gunmen?
07:56<@petern>hmm
07:56<@petern>copying america, i dunno
07:56<Celestar>yeah. the parents owned (legally) no less than 18 fireamrs
07:56<Forked>only in america (or germany..)
07:56<Celestar>arms ..
07:56<@petern>as you do
07:56<Celestar>then again the media reports that he was armed with "a machine gun"
07:56<Forked>I bet they will blame Grand Theft Auto
07:57<Celestar>either the journos have no idea or have never seen a machine gun.
07:57<Celestar>and I somehow don't think that owning a machine gun privately is "legal" in germany
07:57<@petern>well
07:57<@petern>i have no idea
07:57<@petern>a gun is a gun
07:57<Celestar>at least, I hope so :P
07:57<@petern>i dunno what is what sort
07:58*Celestar slaps petern with a GAU-8
07:58<@petern>a what?
07:58<Celestar>a gun.
07:58<Celestar>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg
07:58<@petern>right
07:58<@petern>yup
08:00<Celestar>small one
08:00<Celestar>45 kN recoil force :P
08:01<@Rubidium>is that useful to remove dental plaque?
08:01<@petern>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/M2_machine_gun.jpg
08:01<@petern>hehe
08:01<@petern>do you think the spent shells will fade out after a while to improve the frame rate?
08:01<Celestar>Rubidium: I GUESS it is useful to remove *
08:03<Celestar>at 3900rpm, I think you need that, yes :P
08:04-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
08:05<@Rubidium>"the memory usage grows really fast when using my M2 machine gun"
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08:17<Yexo>Rubidium: it's indeed a few percent faster
08:18<@petern>at removing dental plaque?
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08:29<OsteHovel^PDA>how to get make to be verbose about the command it executes?
08:37<Yexo>OsteHovel^PDA: during compile time? Or do you want runtime debug output?
08:37*Yexo can't read
08:37<Yexo>use 'make VERBOSE=1'
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08:51<OsteHovel^PDA>:P
08:52<OsteHovel^PDA>i got an error while linking openttd with mingw32 on linux, i will get some more info for your guys
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08:56<@petern>our guys!
08:57<Ammler>your slaves :P
08:58<OsteHovel^PDA>[SRC] Linking openttd.exe
08:59<OsteHovel^PDA>lol
08:59<@petern>"lol" ?
08:59<@petern>is that your error?
08:59<OsteHovel^PDA>nope
08:59-!-Brokkoli [~Brokkoli@e177142011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
08:59<@petern>'cos it doesn't seem much of an error :p
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08:59<OsteHovel^PDA>i was going to paste the whole text
09:00<@petern>generally the first bit is enough
09:00<OsteHovel^PDA>but this sucky irc client for pocketpc cant paste multiline messages
09:00<@petern>and if it's long, use paste.openttd.org
09:00<OsteHovel^PDA>settings.o:settings.cpp:(.rdata+0x2db8): undefined reference to `__display_hz'
09:00<OsteHovel^PDA>it was just 4-5 lines
09:00<@petern>sounds like it's confused as to which OS it's compiling for
09:01<@petern>but i've never used mingw32, so i have no idea
09:01<+glx>OsteHovel^PDA: you're lucky the paste failed ;)
09:02<+glx>__display_hz is a win32 only setting
09:03<+glx>used for full screen
09:05<@Rubidium>glx: __display_hz or _display_hz ?
09:07<+glx>well _display_hz in the code
09:08<+glx>and it's defined in win32_v.cpp
09:10<OsteHovel^PDA>im compiling for windows on linux using a gcc for mingw(own built)
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09:11<+glx>cross compilation works well for openttd
09:12<OsteHovel^PDA>i just pasted the message at paste.openttd.org
09:12<+glx>paste the url then :)
09:12<@petern>yeah, you need to provide the link :)
09:13<+glx>"make VERBOSE:=1" and paste the link line
09:14<+glx>because it seems it miss win32 specific files
09:14<@Rubidium>building a dedicated windows build?
09:14<+glx>maybe, I never tried that
09:15*glx tries
09:16<OsteHovel^PDA>ok
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09:17<OsteHovel^PDA>i build dedicated becouse you dont need display drivers i dont think i have the headers
09:19<+glx>you have them else win32.cpp can't compile ;)
09:20<+glx>GDI (the win32 video driver) is part of win32 API
09:20<+glx>but indeed win32 dedicated fails to link :)
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09:21<OsteHovel^PDA>Here: logfile: http://ostsoft.net/~ostehovel/files/out.txt
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09:27*OsteHovel^PDA have low battery on pda...(currently using it for irc dosent have a pc near...)
09:28<Forked>so if I write.. I use even more of mentioned battery?
09:28<Forked>oops.. :)
09:30<OsteHovel^PDA>nope
09:30<OsteHovel^PDA>just warning everybody that if i get timeout im out of battery
09:30<OsteHovel^PDA>:P
09:30<OsteHovel^PDA>do not be afraid of typing....
09:31<+glx>OsteHovel^PDA: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/win32_dedi.diff <-- easy to fix ;)
09:32<OsteHovel^PDA>It is a bug in openttd?
09:32<+glx>not really a bug
09:33<+glx>just an unusual way to build win32 binary
09:34<OsteHovel^PDA>i do just build the windows version for my friends
09:34<OsteHovel^PDA>:P
09:34<+glx>on windows a dedicated only build is usually not needed
09:34<OsteHovel^PDA>true
09:34<+glx>as video 'driver' is part of windows headers
09:35<+glx>so there's no needt to not include them
09:35<OsteHovel^PDA>i just types --enable-dedicated becouse i dident knew if i had any display drivers i was just gonna test if my newly compiled gcc worked
09:35<+glx>and anyway a full build can be started as dedicated
09:35<OsteHovel^PDA>but now i know about that ...
09:36<+glx>but if someone wants a dedicated only windows build it should work ;)
09:37<+glx>(smaller exe)
09:37<OsteHovel^PDA>hehe
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09:41<OsteHovel^EEE>My pda got no battery left 2 meters from my door
09:41<OsteHovel^EEE>:P
09:42<pavel1269>hi
09:42<OsteHovel^EEE>Can you send me the patch link again GLX?
09:42<OsteHovel^EEE>correction from GLX to glx :P
09:42<+glx>OsteHovel^PDA: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/win32_dedi.diff
09:42<OsteHovel^EEE>thanks
09:42<+glx>and both hl me :)
09:42<OsteHovel^EEE>ok
09:43<OsteHovel^EEE>what shoud i do without you...
09:45<OsteHovel^EEE>distcc is genius... then i can build openttd/other apps much faster than just on a single pc
09:45<OsteHovel^EEE>i have 5pc's (all are sucky specs) but together with distcc i get not so bad speed...
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09:48<OsteHovel^EEE>Now i just need to install/compile zlib, png, sdl, freetype for windows/mingw
09:49-!-[1]KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.38.35] has joined #openttd
09:49<planetmaker>you don't need sdl, if you compile for win.
09:50<OsteHovel^EEE>i know i can use gdi :P i just need it to compare my compile times to my other friends msvc (he is using a quad core...)
09:51<OsteHovel^EEE>he is compiling gdi+sdl :P
09:51<planetmaker>OsteHovel^EEE: win users may correct me, but afaik sdl is guarded anyway be #ifndef Win32 or so
09:51<OsteHovel^EEE>?
09:51<planetmaker>sdl part isn't compiled, if win32 is defined.
09:51<+glx>sdl is not enabled in msvc builds
09:51<+glx>planetmaker: no
09:51<planetmaker>ok :) thx, glx
09:52<+glx>but you just need sdl headers (it's a "linked" at runtime)
09:52<OsteHovel^EEE>if you need: --with-sdl at configure time and --host=i586-mingw32 arent you compiling both gdi and sdl :P
09:52<OsteHovel^EEE>?
09:52<OsteHovel^EEE>*if you use...
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09:53<+glx>yes, but as I said only headers are needed for sdl
09:53<OsteHovel^EEE>(now i just need to test my newly build gdi windows build at linux)
09:53<OsteHovel^EEE>ok
09:53<+glx>the dll is loaded at runtime if present
09:53<OsteHovel^EEE>if i did not suplly --enable-dedicated the build run widout errors
09:54<+glx>not surprising :)
09:54<OsteHovel^EEE>Its working!
09:54<OsteHovel^EEE>forgot to "strip" it so it 4.7 mb
09:58<pavel1269>i cant compile anyone can help me?
09:59<pavel1269>i linked all needed libs .... dx, zlib, freetype, icu, lubpng, usefull
09:59<pavel1269>*includes and libs
09:59<pavel1269>but when building debug ... in MSVS 9 ...
09:59<pavel1269>3>Linking...
09:59<pavel1269>3> Creating library ..\objs\Win32\Debug\\openttd.lib and object ..\objs\Win32\Debug\\openttd.exp
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Set_Pixel_Sizes@12 referenced in function "void __fastcall InitFreeType(void)" (?InitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Init_FreeType@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall InitFreeType(void)" (?InitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Done_Face@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Set_Charmap@8 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Select_Charmap@8 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_New_Face@16 referenced in function "void __fastcall LoadFreeTypeFont(char const *,struct FT_FaceRec_ * *,char const *)" (?LoadFreeTypeFont@@YIXPBDPAPAUFT_FaceRec_@@0@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Done_FreeType@4 referenced in function "void __fastcall UninitFreeType(void)" (?UninitFreeType@@YIXXZ)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Render_Glyph@8 referenced in function "struct Sprite const * __fastcall GetGlyph(enum FontSize,unsigned int)" (?GetGlyph@@YIPBUSprite@@W4FontSize@@I@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _FT_Load_Char@12 referenced in function "struct Sprite const * __fastcall GetGlyph(enum FontSize,unsigned int)" (?GetGlyph@@YIPBUSprite@@W4FontSize@@I@Z)
09:59<pavel1269>3>..\objs\Win32\Debug\\openttd.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 9 unresolved externals
10:00<+glx>pavel1269: paste.openttd.org next time
10:00<pavel1269>sry
10:00<+glx>do you have openttd-useful ?
10:01<pavel1269>y
10:01<pavel1269>isnt problem ... "\Debug\\openttd.exe" ... those two slashes?
10:01<+glx>no
10:02<+glx>did you try a full rebuild?
10:04<pavel1269>u mean clean and build?
10:05<+glx>or rebuild all yes
10:08-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd
10:09<pavel1269>new error .)
10:09<pavel1269>4>d:\games\openttd\trunk\src\gfx.cpp(259) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/ubidi.h': No such file or directory
10:09<+glx>then openttd-useful is not installed correctly
10:10<+glx>did you set paths in MSVC?
10:10<+glx>or you don't use the latest version
10:11<+glx>(2.2)
10:18<pavel1269>tools -> options -> project and soluzions -> VC++ directories ->library and dir ....
10:19<+glx>yes
10:20<pavel1269>and this: http://binaries.openttd.org/extra/openttd-useful/2.2/openttd-useful-2.2-win.zip
10:20<pavel1269>and win32 for me
10:20<OsteHovel^EEE>My first install of linux with console over serial :P
10:20<pavel1269>and only 4 libs ... same versions i have
10:21<+glx>includes are in shared/include
10:21<+glx>libs are in win32/library
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10:31<OsteHovel^EEE>Debian was fast to install (using Netinstall)
10:32<+glx>only if you have fast network ;)
10:33<OsteHovel^EEE>1 gbit/s network :p but only 5mbit/s internet :P
10:33<OsteHovel^EEE>it was faster to install than ubuntu
10:33<@Rubidium>even with average (Dutch) DSL it's faster than installing Windows
10:33<OsteHovel^EEE>what is a avarage dutch DSL speed?
10:34<DASPRiD>6mbit or such
10:34<OsteHovel^EEE>ok
10:34<DASPRiD>nothgin fast
10:34-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman]
10:35<Sacro>Mbit surely?
10:35<@Rubidium>lets than 1 MB/s
10:35<DASPRiD>Sacro, thats what of a friend of mine has (he's dutch)
10:36<Sacro>I think you mean Mb rather than mb
10:36<Sacro>they aren't the same
10:36<Sacro>mb Mb mB and MB are all different
10:36<@petern>yeah, megabits vs michael blunck
10:36<Sacro>quite
10:38<OsteHovel^EEE>i have 5 Mbit/s (Teoritical: 625 KiloByte/s) downspeed and 1.8 Mbit/s (Teoritical: 225 KiloByte/s) upspeed:P
10:38<DASPRiD>you forgot megabite
10:38<DASPRiD>i have 32 mbit down, 2.5 mbit up
10:38<Sacro>DASPRiD: no such thing
10:39<Sacro>well, not in computing terms
10:39<Sacro>perhaps in sandwich terms though...
10:39<lolman>DASPRiD, surely you mean Megabyte?
10:39<DASPRiD>lolman, nah, mega bite!
10:39<DASPRiD>:P
10:40<OsteHovel^EEE>Mega is written with a big letter M :p
10:40<Sacro>lolman: i want a sammich :(
10:40<DASPRiD>(actually, that sounds like a pokémon attack or such)
10:40<lolman>Sacro, go to Benedicts then :P
10:40<Sacro>I shall
10:40<Sacro>meet me there?
10:40*DASPRiD eats a snadwhich
10:40<lolman>When?
10:40<dihedral>DASPRiD, a what?
10:41*lolman wonders what a snadwhich is
10:41<OsteHovel^EEE>lol:P
10:41<Sacro>lolman: just getting ready now so 10-15
10:41<DASPRiD>dihedral, snadwhich, also known as sandwhich
10:41<lolman>Alright
10:41<DASPRiD>or was it sandwich
10:41<OsteHovel^EEE>:P
10:41<DASPRiD>cant remember >_>
10:41<lolman>sandwich
10:42<Sacro>mmmhm, hope they have chicken and bacon mayo
10:42*OsteHovel^EEE sucks in english & norwegian grammar and spelling
10:42<OsteHovel^EEE>when ostehovel has sudo apt-get on his pc he is feeling fine...
10:42<+glx>OsteHovel^EEE: try french grammar ;)
10:42<OsteHovel^EEE>:P
10:42<OsteHovel^EEE>hehe
10:42<DASPRiD>when windows has sudo apt-get on it's pcs i'm feeling better
10:44<OsteHovel^EEE>you can get apt-get for windows using cygwin
10:44<OsteHovel^EEE>:P
10:44<DASPRiD>OsteHovel^EEE, but windows itself needs a packaging system
10:45<OsteHovel^EEE>true
10:45<OsteHovel^EEE>:p
10:45<DASPRiD>like sudo apt-get install adobe-photoshop
10:45<OsteHovel^EEE>apt-get sourcce adobe-photoshop
10:45<OsteHovel^EEE>:P
10:45<DASPRiD>hrhr
10:45<DASPRiD>and then backports from linux for windows
10:45<DASPRiD>apt-get install compiz
10:45<lolman>DASPRiD, other than the fact that won't work, perhaps a good idea
10:46<Sacro>apt-crack search photoshop
10:46<+glx>just use the gimp
10:46<Sacro>for whipping?
10:46<Sacro>or do you mean the GIMP
10:46<Sacro>which is entirely different
10:47<DASPRiD>or... apt-get install *game* --- Throug this operation, 95 petabyte of diskspace will be used.
10:47<lolman>DASPRiD, insufficient disk space
10:47<DASPRiD>lolman, lie :x
10:48<OsteHovel^EEE>lol i have build gcc on windows using cygwin for target mingw :P lol the cygwin folder is now 2.78 gb :P (129 224 files and 6 462 folders)
10:48<+glx>why build gcc on windows?
10:48<OsteHovel^EEE>becouse i use distcc
10:49-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
10:49<OsteHovel^EEE>i want the power of my dual core to power the compillings i do for windows + linux
10:49<DASPRiD>make -j5 ?
10:49<lolman>DASPRiD, duals want -j3
10:49<+glx>-j4 is good too
10:49<lolman>j5 would spawn too many threads, would bottleneck
10:49<DASPRiD>lolman, nah, not too many
10:49-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:50<DASPRiD>i benchmarked -j4 up to -j12 on my quadcore
10:50<DASPRiD>-j11 was best
10:50<lolman>Makes no sense
10:50<lolman>Anyway I'm outta here
10:50<DASPRiD>but its fact :)
10:50<OsteHovel^EEE>i use make -j16 :P
10:50<+glx>disk access are the problem on windows
10:50<DASPRiD>cya lol
10:50<DASPRiD>nah
10:50<DASPRiD>windows is the problem on windows
10:51<OsteHovel^EEE>becouse i have 2x 800 mhz linux + 2x 3ghz linux + 2x dualcore 2.5 ghz windows :P
10:51-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has joined #openttd
10:51<+glx>it's "because" ;)
10:52<OsteHovel^EEE>i think i need a spelling program for xchat
10:53<DASPRiD>xchat has automatic word replacement
10:53<DASPRiD>so teh gets replaced with the for example
10:53-!-el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
10:54<@Belugas>it's "the" ...youhou!
11:00<OsteHovel^EEE>i feel that linux handles alot of files much better than windows
11:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15671 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: bit of coding style/clarification.
11:02<pavel1269>glx: so rebuilded again, this time with usefull inludes :-) .... and still same error as i mentioned at first
11:03<+glx>then check useful libs, because it works for me and compile farm
11:04<pavel1269>so u ar sure, that problem is there?
11:04<pavel1269>*u are
11:05<@Belugas>YOU
11:05<pavel1269>oh, hello Belugas :-)
11:06<+glx>the problem is when linking with freetype
11:06-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:06<pavel1269>could i have outdated libs?
11:06<+glx>if you use 2.2 you're up to date
11:06-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has joined #openttd
11:07<pavel1269>last i compiled 12689 i think :-P
11:07<+glx>but maybe you have older libs somewhere in msvc paths
11:07<@Rubidium>openttd requires some fancy linking stuff. When you've made the libraries without using the howto in the sources of openttd useful it's likely MSVC can't link them
11:07<@Belugas>hello pavel1269 :)
11:07<+glx>openttd-useful 2.2 is from last week
11:07<pavel1269>Rubidium: i havent made any libraries :-)
11:08<pavel1269>glx: i get all old stuff from my old pc (dx,freetype,libpng,zlib) and downloaded new usefull
11:09<+glx>then it's probably a conflict with the old libs
11:09<pavel1269>and why do i have freetype in usefull end extern too?
11:09<pavel1269>*and
11:09<pavel1269>or i need now only usefull and no other libraries/includes?
11:10<@Rubidium>you need useful + directx august 2007 + platform sdk
11:11<pavel1269>why i have libpng and such?
11:11<pavel1269>it is not needed anymore?
11:11<+glx>and the easier way for useful is to extract it somewhere and set msvc paths to use it
11:11<pavel1269>this i have done
11:12<+glx>and how did you install the previous useful ?
11:12<+glx>extracted in VC dirs ?
11:12<pavel1269>no
11:12<pavel1269>i have D: ... games/ottd/libraries and ... lib/include ...
11:13<pavel1269>both marked in MSVS
11:14<+glx>search for libfreetype2.lib on your hard drive
11:14<+glx>you should have only one
11:14<pavel1269>2 :-P
11:14<+glx>and both in msvc paths?
11:14<pavel1269>so ... now i deleted all other then usefull/dx paths
11:15<pavel1269>except default ones ofc
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11:16<pavel1269>word :-)
11:16<pavel1269>*work
11:16<+glx>it was a conflict ;)
11:16<pavel1269>so you, devs, included all neccesarry thinks into usefull?
11:17<+glx>yes
11:17<pavel1269>:-) ... okay, thank you very much
11:17<@petern>thinks!
11:17<+glx>all required libs are in useful (except dx of course)
11:18<@Rubidium>everything that is used by OpenTTD and we are allowed to repackage and redistribute is in openttd-useful
11:18-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC]
11:18<pavel1269>whats "icu" for?
11:18<+glx>rtl languages
11:18<@Belugas>right to left languages
11:20<pavel1269>so if i dont compile with that, people, who have rtl language may have problem if they have binary from me?
11:20<pavel1269>but no problem for me at all?
11:20<@Rubidium>exactly
11:20<pavel1269>good to know ...
11:21<pavel1269>but not sure if i should include them :-/
11:21<@Rubidium>same that freetype isn't needed if you don't need non-standard characters
11:21<@Rubidium>libpng isn't needed if you don't want to load png heightmaps/store png screenshots
11:21<pavel1269>i guess Czech language need freetype :-)
11:21<+glx>zlib isn't needed if you don't play multiplayer
11:22<@Rubidium>and zlib isn't needed if you want to store uncompressed savegames and don't need to be able to open savegames that are saved with zlib
11:22<pavel1269>chars like "ř" "ž" "ě" "í" .... are in freetype?
11:22<@Rubidium>freetype is a library to load fonts
11:23*petern remembers the bad days when utf8 was not supported
11:23<@petern>although string handling was more efficient :p
11:23<@Rubidium>so the answer is no, but it's used to load fonts that can contain those characters
11:23<@Rubidium>petern: and it was harder to exploit strings :)
11:23<@petern>:D
11:24<@Belugas>pavel1269, rule of thumb, though: if you want to distribute your own compiled version of OpenTTD, try to please as many people as you can.
11:24<+glx>and less special cases where needed ;)
11:24<@petern>especially me
11:24<@petern>so give me beer
11:24<pavel1269>Belugas: then i hope, rtl dont use many ppl :-)
11:24<@Belugas>come over here, and i'll give you a box of beer!
11:24<pavel1269>true? :-)
11:24<+glx>pavel1269: just use msvc for windows
11:25<pavel1269>i know that
11:25<pavel1269>but now need to update ALL of my patches :-X
11:25<pavel1269>and include new ones of course
11:26<@Belugas>not you, pavel1269, petern ;)
11:26<pavel1269>ahh, one of the most usefull patches ... pbs_r12622.patch ... also looking forwad cargodest :-)
11:26<+glx>pbs is in trunk
11:26<pavel1269>Belugas: i want beer too! :-P
11:26<planetmaker>pbs patch?!
11:26<pavel1269>glx: i know ... but those days ... no :-)
11:28<planetmaker>pavel1269: then I rather recommend to shop around the forums for the latest versions of the patches you desire - and have prior to that a look at the trunk features introduced meanwhile.
11:29<pavel1269>planetmaker: i have like 8patches witch are mine :-) ... so i have to update them on my own
11:29<pavel1269>but mostly, they are very simple
11:29<planetmaker>pavel1269: if they're in the forums... maybe someone worked on them? :)
11:29<pavel1269>they are and no :-)
11:29<planetmaker>he... which are they?
11:30<pavel1269>i dont even know if anyone have ever played with them :-)
11:30<pavel1269>because same you cant use on normal mp server
11:30<planetmaker>many people play SP
11:30<planetmaker>MP is a minority, I think
11:31<pavel1269>limited_city_size_r11814.patch, no_aircrash_r11814.patch, no_best_offer_r11814.patch, no_localauthority_r11814.patch
11:31<pavel1269>those i included everywhere :-P
11:31<pavel1269>i focus on mp :-)
11:31<pavel1269>also limit_veh_speed_r11814.patch
11:31<planetmaker>he, yeah, but they require indeed new clients :)
11:32*planetmaker mostly picks up client-side only patches.
11:32-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd
11:32<[wito]>pavel1269: side note; I'm testing cargodest against the newest revisions, works pretty well
11:33<[wito]>Of course, I'm not actively looking for bugs, but on the whole I'm pretty happy with it
11:33<pavel1269>is it mp stable?
11:33<[wito]>mp
11:33<[wito]>?
11:33<pavel1269>multiplayer
11:34<[wito]>oh, no clue
11:34<pavel1269>i have tested h63f84835, and i was happy with that, yeah, i know a lot of work needed there too but .... that patch is simply great :-)
11:34<pavel1269>and now i care only if mp stable
11:34<planetmaker>afaik yes, pavel1269
11:34<pavel1269>great :-)
11:35<[wito]>i'm using http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=771184#p771184 this one
11:35<planetmaker>you should check out the updated patch
11:35-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-95-237.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:35<[wito]>patched against rev 15642 and updated to the current revision
11:35<planetmaker>ali made an update and posted it somewhere
11:35<[wito]>hasn't crashed yet
11:35-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-95-237.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
11:36<[wito]>Due to a problem with the map generator, I haven't really tested it on a huge network yet
11:36<pavel1269>what problem?
11:36<[wito]>bad Chi
11:36<@Rubidium>[wito]: then use my fix for that
11:37<[wito]>:P
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11:37<@petern>C++ the existing generators
11:37<pavel1269>Chi?
11:37<@petern>+ize
11:37<@petern>then add more
11:38<[wito]>pavel1269: the maps don't have a good balance between the elements
11:38<[wito]>they don't have a good flow of energy, if you will
11:38<pavel1269>what elements? industries?
11:38<[wito]>pavel1269: nah, the terrain
11:39<planetmaker>pavel1269: Ying and Yang, esoteric harmony, you-name-it :P
11:39<pavel1269>i am happy with it ?.ú
11:39<pavel1269>*:-)
11:39*Rubidium wonders whether [wito] is happy with the chi of the world
11:39<[wito]>pavel1269: yeah, well
11:39<[wito]>I'm slightly insane. :P
11:39<@Rubidium>oh, then we should ban you ;)
11:40<[wito]>:P
11:40<@Rubidium>only the really insane are allowed
11:40<planetmaker>:D
11:41*planetmaker wonders whether such opinion is slightly or mightily insane ;)
11:42<[wito]>I might try my hand at writing a templating terrain editor
11:42<[wito]>Designed to generate terrain with good Chi
11:43<[wito]>with actual mountains, rivers, gulleys, meandering lakes and so on
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11:46*planetmaker wonders whether the now existing road path finders could be abused to find river paths...
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11:50<@Belugas>[11:42] <@Rubidium> only the really insane are allowed <--- GOD I FEEL AT HOME!!
11:53<@Belugas>[wito], i'd be very interested in reading what the rules might be for having a terrain with good Chi...
11:53<[wito]>Belugas: indeed, it is a tricky proposition
11:54<@Belugas>defining the undefinable
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11:55<[wito]>oh, it's not undefinable
11:55<[wito]>you only need to extend the principles for feng shui to terrain
11:56<@Belugas>tut tut tut... that is not a rule, it's walking around the subject
11:57<[wito]>fine
11:57<pavel1269>ehh, where do you know about chi, feng shui, ying and yang
11:58<[wito]>You examine types of terrain (lake, river, mountain, forest, desert etc.) and assign to them elements
11:58<[wito]>mountains are earth, lakes and rivers water, forests wood, deserts fire, and towns and certain industries metal
11:59<[wito]>(a lumber mill, sawmill or forest would be wood, an oil refinery fire, etc.)
11:59<pavel1269>then my maps are full of earth, wood and metal :-)
11:59<[wito]>then you place elements in such a fashion that auspicious elements are together, inauspicious elements are apart, and that on the whole there is balance
12:00<pavel1269>:-)
12:00<pavel1269>no metal in wood? baaad
12:00<planetmaker>the chainsaw in the woods... bad omen, if you're a tree :)
12:01<pavel1269>:-)
12:01<pavel1269>you are strange [wito] :-)
12:02<[wito]>that may be so, but it would give some damn fine maps
12:02<goodger>[wito]: what is that meant to achieve?
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12:10<planetmaker>clearly: fine maps :)
12:11<[wito]>goodger: it is meant to achieve maps that 1) Have good Chi
12:11<[wito]>2) Look like real terrain
12:11<goodger>how is good chi achieved?
12:11<goodger>and what does having it achieve?
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12:13<@petern>i said it before
12:13<@petern>you need tectonics
12:13<@petern>erosion
12:14<@petern>i.e. way too much
12:14<@petern>heh
12:14<@petern>i remember playing civ and waiting a minute for it to create the map
12:14<goodger>petern: might be difficult to do erosion with a 3d resolution of 50m
12:14<@petern>just a bit
12:15<goodger>might just about work with 1m
12:15<goodger>but not 50
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12:17<@petern>i never said it would be easy though :)
12:17<@petern>tgp is just... lacking a b it
12:17<goodger>quite
12:18<|Japa|>perhaps not erosion, but tectonics would work
12:18<[wito]>goodger: I just outlined a model for achieving good Chi
12:18<[wito]>and you don't need erosion
12:18<goodger>[wito]: what about the method gives it good chi, and what does good chi do for it?
12:19<[wito]>goodger: good chi is achieved when the elements are in balance
12:19<Noldo>what is Chi in this context?
12:19<[wito]>and hopefully good chi roughly translates to playability
12:19<[wito]>or at least realisnm
12:19<[wito]>realism
12:20<goodger>ok then
12:20<goodger>I... think I understand
12:21<Noldo>so Chi as in Chi-na
12:21<[wito]>:P
12:21<Noldo>;)
12:21<[wito]>no, Chi as in energy
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12:22<Noldo>yeah yeah, that's what I ment
12:22<|Japa|>or as the indians would call it, good vastu
12:22<Noldo>it's also a greek letter that has some meaning in statistics
12:22*goodger is confused again
12:22<goodger>energy?
12:22<goodger>Noldo: pronounced "k-eye" :)
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12:25<[wito]>goodger: some think of it as though "Positive energy should flow through [the terrain] as a dragon would move through it."
12:26<|Japa|>plate tectonics would be neat, tho
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12:27<|Japa|>and I can mentally visualise how they would work
12:27<[wito]>indeed
12:27<[wito]>we'd still need an interface for building terrain generators
12:27<@petern>whoever decided perlin noise was good for maps? heh
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12:32<@Belugas>[12:13] <[wito]> 2) Look like real terrain <-- hooo.... that is THE argument!!!
12:32<goodger>the present map generator produces maps that are extremely difficult to actually build on; it's far too irregular even in "flat" mode and the towns are about two squares apart
12:33<@petern>that depends on the 'smoothing' level
12:34<@Belugas>petern, i vaguely remember a discussion on the matter in #openttd. Richk was one of the attendants. He was pushing toward perlin noise, but he weas not the one who brough the idea initially
12:34<@Belugas>i THINK it was tron, but i'm far from being sure
12:35<@Belugas>[wito] i read your description of the definition of the chi stuff. i fear it might be too esoteric for openttd
12:37<@Belugas>one thing that strikes me is that there is no room for natural evolution. it must fit some humanly defined rules, which obliviate any natural processes, like petern mentionned
12:37<@Rubidium>~/.openttd/scenario/wito\'s\ map.scn = [wito]->GenerateMap(11, 11, LT_ARCTIC, 15, 7);
12:38<@Belugas>so you'll end up with maps that are pleasant for the eye, but that might not be realistic ;)
12:38<@petern>as always gameplay is important
12:39<@petern>and tgp is ... boring
12:39<@petern>it's all the same, the whole map
12:39<@petern>there're no defined valleys, just dips
12:39<@petern>there're no defined hill ranges, just bumps
12:39*Belugas nods
12:39<@Rubidium>this [wito] map generator seems increadibly slow
12:39<@petern>:(
12:40<@Belugas>let's start a mew project: chaotic map generator
12:40<@Belugas>new
12:40<@Belugas>moooooo
12:41<Noldo>are "realistic" heightmaps nice to play?
12:42<@Rubidium>first need to find the place on earth that is modeled after TTD's model of the world
12:42<@petern>:DF
12:42<@petern>Noldo: most of those are too flat
12:43<@petern>they take the height values literally
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12:55<Sacro>Hmm, I think i've found a build bug
12:55<@Belugas>in my mind, there are 2 problems that might need to be adressed with the map generation: 1) more height level 2) cliffs
12:56<@Belugas>without those, it's pretty hard to have something with more relief
12:56<@Belugas>relief?
12:56<@Belugas>mmmh..
12:56<Sacro>i have --binary-name=openttd-svn but it still uses /usr/share/doc/openttd and /usr/share/games/openttd
12:58<@petern>yeah
12:58<@petern>they're not... the binary...
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12:59<Sacro>petern: hmm, so I should use the other stuff?
12:59<Sacro>--binary-dir=bin --data-dir=share/openttd-svn -
12:59<@petern>something like that
13:00<@petern>(why do you need a different data-dir?)
13:00<Sacro>so that it doesn't conflict
13:00<Sacro>and Arch doesn't use /usr/share/games
13:00<@petern>what wou....
13:00<@petern>oh, if you install, i suppose
13:01<@petern>i don't think i've ever run make install :p
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13:07<Sacro>./configure --prefix-dir=/usr --binary-name=openttd-svn --binary-dir=bin --data-dir=share/openttd-svn --install-dir=$startdir/pkg --doc-dir=share/doc/openttd-svn --menu-name="OpenTTD SVN"
13:07<Sacro>:D
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13:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15672 /trunk/src/ (saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp sound.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: (left,right,top,bottom)_coord -> coord.(left,right,top,bottom), i.e. use Rect.
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13:27<@petern>zomg
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13:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15673 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: it was not possible to compile a win32 dedicated server (even if 'configure --enable-dedicated' passed)
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13:50<@Belugas>no more mister synchropolling!
13:50<@Belugas>code beautifying
13:50<@Belugas>o_O
13:50<@Belugas>sorry
13:51<[wito]>yay
13:51<[wito]>zeppelins!
13:51<[wito]>I do love av8r. :)
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14:12<el_en>how was "It was full of bees. - I thought it was more like full of cees." translated in Lost?
14:17<@Belugas>i dunno... you lost me
14:17<@petern>maybe el_en was looking for #lost?
14:18<@petern>he's the only person who talks about it here :)
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14:40<@Belugas>mmh...
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14:41<[wito]>yarr
14:41<@Belugas>el_en -> ln -> Lost Noob!
14:41<[wito]>Cargodest makes it difficult to get enough throughput on stations. :P
14:41<[wito]>20kPassengers and 5kBags of mail waiting. o.O;;
14:41<+glx>[wito]: try with TTRS too ;)
14:41<|Japa|>yup
14:41<[wito]>TTRS?
14:41<KingJ>I've had that, at over 10 stations ;)
14:42<|Japa|>TTRS?
14:42<[wito]>Oh, this is just one hub
14:42<@Belugas>TTRS!
14:42<KingJ>It turned out that some just wanted to go one more station down the line, so I built 20 length ubertrains just to shuttle them
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14:43<[wito]>yeah
14:43<[wito]>well, that ain't the worst of it
14:43<+glx>though with distant join it should be easier to handle
14:43<[wito]>I also have an airport with 10kBags of diamonds waiting. o.O
14:43<@Belugas>Total Town Realistic System
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14:45<@petern>replacement set, no?
14:45<[wito]>Belugas: but what does it DO?
14:46<planetmaker> /me quiets Belugas
14:46<planetmaker>[wito]: try it.
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14:48<@Belugas>Total Town Replacement Set
14:48<@Belugas>it gives a brand new touch to your town
14:49<@Belugas>it has some cargo magic too
14:49<@Belugas>yes petern, i was.. facetious
14:51<planetmaker>whew... you just got the curve away from realism, Belugas ;)
14:51<@petern>oh
14:51<@petern>facetious is a great word
14:51<@petern>for containing all the vowels in order
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14:52<planetmaker>:)
14:52<@petern>or 'facetiously' if you want to go one step further :D
14:52-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:52<planetmaker>Czech words would contain all consonants in order :P
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15674 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-11 18:52:10
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 9 changed by planetmaker (9)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 fixed by fanioz (1)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 121 fixed by Gubius (121)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 4 fixed by SnowFlake (4)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 1 fixed by Smoky555 (1)
14:57<@Belugas>lol!
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14:57<@Belugas>i'll remember that one, petern :D
14:58<[wito]>yowza
14:58<[wito]>another airport hub has 65kPassengers waiting. o.O;;;;
14:59<@petern>i remember the good old days
14:59<@petern>when you could only have around 4000 waiting...
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15:01<@Belugas>and then, there wer no intercontinental airports either :)
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15:03<@petern>oh fuck yes
15:03<planetmaker>with the emergance of distant join stations they're heavily overrated anyway :)
15:03<@petern>i hate those :p
15:03<@petern>they always where
15:03<@petern>were
15:05<@Belugas>please please please... let all of my airports in trunk... please please
15:05<[wito]>planetmaker: you still cannot combine airports, tho'
15:06<@Belugas>luckily
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15:18<el_en>[20:18] <petern> he's the only person who talks about it here :) <-- not true, at least glx and Eddi|atHome have been seen talking about Lost.
15:20<planetmaker>[wito]: what would be the use to combine airports anyway?
15:20<[wito]>planetmaker: huge friggin airports? :P
15:21-!-PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd
15:21<[wito]>sometimes, two helipads just doesn't cut it. :P
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15:27<@Belugas>yup yup...those were the times...
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15:40<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:41-!-dyzdyz [~dyzdyz@193.189.116.2] has joined #openttd
15:43<dyzdyz>hi all
15:44<dyzdyz>may i have some questions about compiling ottd?
15:45-!-JapaMala [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has joined #openttd
15:45<@Belugas>hehe... i have a ton of questions :)
15:45<dyzdyz>heh, i think my questions are not so complicated as yours
15:45<Ammler>then give him some ;-)
15:45<@Rubidium>hmm... new type of asking whether you may ask something?
15:46<dyzdyz>is it possible to mix two or more patches?
15:46<@Belugas>yes it's possible
15:46<dyzdyz>...but?
15:46<dyzdyz>:-)
15:47<@Belugas>you have to know what you're doing to merge them
15:47-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47<JapaMala>I have no questions
15:47<JapaMala>just letting you all know
15:47<@Belugas>and i THINK you shold not use BuildOTTD (or something alike)
15:47<planetmaker>hello Nite_Owl
15:47<@Belugas>good boy, JapaMala, good boy
15:48<[wito]>dyzdyz: It's very possible, but can be problematic if they affect the same thing
15:48<dyzdyz>[wito]: i was expecting that
15:48<Nite_Owl>Hello planetmaker
15:48<[wito]>A patch to modify the terrain generator and, oh, say, cargodest won't be a problem to mix
15:49<[wito]>but two patches that both affect handling of road vehicles might conflict
15:49*Belugas nods
15:49<dyzdyz>ok, i actually want to mix cargodest with [patch] More Map Settings v2 (r14439) and copy&paste reworked patch
15:49<@Belugas>therefor, it's good to understand the code you want to patch, or you'll end up gambling
15:49<[wito]>well
15:49<JapaMala>also, a patch that allows more heightlevels, and a nocd patch for FC2, won't mix well
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15:50<[wito]>svn to the revision for the lowest patch
15:50<[wito]>apply
15:50<[wito]>svn to rev for next patch
15:50<[wito]>rinse and repeat
15:50<[wito]>if you don't get a C anywhere in there, chances are things'll work out fine
15:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15675 /trunk/src/effectvehicle.cpp: -Codechange: don't unnecessarily mark vehicles dirty before deleting them; it already happens in the destructor.
15:50<[wito]>if you do, however
15:50<[wito]>tough luck
15:50<dyzdyz>ok, i'll try now
15:51<dyzdyz>and probably will have some questions
15:51<dyzdyz>more
15:51<planetmaker>dyzdyz: have you so far already compiled openttd? compiled with one patch?
15:51<dyzdyz>planetmaker: yes, but not on window
15:51<dyzdyz>windows
15:51-!-murr4y_ is now known as murr4y
15:51<dyzdyz>now i'm trying cygwin
15:51<planetmaker>he... :) good way to go that way, then, too :)
15:52<dyzdyz>it's not possible to compile for win64 using cygwin? only MS-whatever-2099?
15:53<Ammler>yes
15:53<dyzdyz>all right
15:53<dyzdyz>so, let's try
15:54<Ammler>(it's not, if it hasn't changed in recent code)
15:55<@Rubidium>there's people working on mingw64, aren't they?
15:56<dyzdyz>so i should begin patching with the oldes rev?
15:56<dyzdyz>*oldest?
15:56<planetmaker>it's a good way to start, yes
15:58<planetmaker>mind that 14439 is not the newest version anymore and the likelyness to get conflicts increases with increasing difference in revisions
15:58<dyzdyz>why should i use 14439?
15:59<dyzdyz>ah, right
15:59<dyzdyz>do i need something more for cargodest that is metioned here: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Cygwin ?
16:00<@Rubidium>yes
16:00<@Rubidium>some headers from boost
16:02<dyzdyz>i assume windows version of Boost headers is not ok for cygwin?
16:02<+glx>headers are headers
16:02<planetmaker>^^
16:03*JapaMala wants cargodes pax volume issues to be fixed
16:03<[wito]>JapaMala: that the bugs where passengers are over-popped?
16:03<dyzdyz>JapaMala: i dream about it too :-)
16:03<JapaMala>it's annoying having half ofthe entire town population waiting at my stations
16:04-!-JapaMala is now known as |Japa|
16:04<[wito]>half?
16:04<[wito]>I had a game with a feeder service to an airport
16:04<@petern>bugs?
16:04<@petern>it's not a bug, it's a balancing issue.
16:05<@Rubidium>the "bug" is that passengers are transferred which makes trains (un)load longer which makes the throughput lower which makes the stations fill more easily
16:05<[wito]>the ammount of passengers waiting for service to a hub was about 3 times the combined size of the two towns that provided passenger feed. :P
16:06<@Belugas>so?
16:07<|Japa|>bugs aside, cargodest just makes the game plain harder
16:07<@petern>exactly the same happens without cargodest
16:07<|Japa|>in a good way
16:07<@Rubidium>they just procreate like rabbits in the towns
16:07<@Rubidium>when you move people out of there
16:08<[wito]>|Japa|: s/harder/more challenging/
16:08<@petern>you just don't notice it because passengers will disappear given the first chance
16:08<Alberth>We have nested HG trunks nowadays? http://vcs.openttd.org/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/trunk.hg/
16:08<@Rubidium>yes
16:09<Alberth>each time I click at 'trunk.hg', another one is added
16:09<@Rubidium>just use hg.openttd.org
16:09<@Rubidium>or tell TB about it
16:09-!-OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:13<Alberth>Rubidium: tnx! I was already worried my hg was broken
16:13<[wito]>Is it possible to build a newGRF that modifies the look of depots/docks depending on when they are built?
16:14<@Rubidium>not with the current implementation
16:17<[wito]>I'd love a set of ships for the 1600-1800 era (good old sailboats. :D)
16:17<[wito]>but they would look rather silly with the current depots
16:18<Alberth>why bot simply make a good looking one for your era?
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16:19<[wito]>well, it would make a lot of sense if say road vehicle depots pre 1850ish were wooden sheds or stables, but those built after would be bus depots
16:22<Alberth>[wito]: Well, it is not going to happen automatically. One way around it is to provide all variations and let the user pick the right one
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16:23<Alberth>and maybe in the future, OpenTTD is going to support it, and then you can change your grf accordingly
16:23<Nite_Owl>Does not TTRS change depots over time?
16:25<|Japa|>are you even able to make multiple docks?
16:26<|Japa|>because with stations, you are able to have station types that are only buildable for a certain period
16:26<|Japa|>not that you can actually tell what the period is...
16:27<dyzdyz>so, now i see compilig anything using cygwin is too complicated for me
16:31<dyzdyz>cargodest source is availibe ia something called "mercurial", so i added this package to my cygwin, and it doesn't seem to work
16:32<Aali>perhaps you should read the manual
16:33<dyzdyz>yeah, i should... but why do i have to install something that lets me install something else that lets me install something else that let me download the source :-) ?
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16:35<Alberth>dyzdyz: if you think that is hard, what until you get the first compile error!
16:36<Aali>compiler errors are manageable, crashing the compiler is far worse :(
16:37<dyzdyz>Alberth: i don't think it's hard, it's just annoying
16:37<dyzdyz>it would be hard without manuals
16:37<@Rubidium>cygwin is like linux from scratch
16:38<@Rubidium>compile everything yourself because they don't package it for you
16:38<Aali>well, the main problem is that you started out with windows :)
16:38<@Rubidium>on the other hand... installing the DirectX SDK gives you a similar problem
16:38<dyzdyz>Aali: that is the long story...
16:39<Aali>cygwin has provided every package I have needed so far except aterm and that I could have done without, I just like it better than xterm
16:40<@Rubidium>because the directx intstall (august 2007, the one you need) is in a self extracting package which is in a self extracting package. So to install like 15 MB of headers + libs you need to extract a 400 MB download 3 times, so you need almost 2 GiB to install it
16:40-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
16:40<Alberth>Rubidium: you need something to fill your disks with :)
16:41<@Rubidium>those are called called hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, %TMP% and temporary internet files
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16:43<dyzdyz>my cywin sais i have no python installed, but cygwin installer says i have python installed :-)
16:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15676 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the need for BeginVehicleMove and merge VehiclePositionChanged and EndVehicleMove.
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16:50<batti5>What did i do to get permanent ban?
16:50<planetmaker>uu... the code got both, more readable and shorter :)
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16:53<matma6>hello/witam
16:53<planetmaker>hello
16:54<matma6>well, i speak polish very well - it's my native language
16:54<matma6>but english
16:54<@Rubidium>I speak Polish as well as Google translate speaks it
16:54<@Rubidium>which is very crappy
16:55<matma6>nvm
16:55<matma6>auto translators?
16:55<matma6>i don't believe
16:55<matma6>well
16:55<matma6>i have a little idea about OTTD
16:56<matma6>i was playing few moments ago Simutrans
16:56<matma6>http://www.simutrans.com/
16:56<@petern>you sicko
16:56<planetmaker>convince them to trans-code the comic pack to an openttd grf.
16:56<matma6>i don't understand
16:56<matma6>no no
16:57<matma6>view is ugly
16:57<planetmaker>they have nice comic graphics. I want those for openttd :)
16:57<planetmaker>better than toyland :P
16:57<@Belugas>[16:58] <planetmaker> convince them to trans-code the comic pack to an openttd grf. <--seconded!!!
16:57<planetmaker>:)
16:57<@petern>you could join my 32bpp project
16:57<@Belugas>want want want!!!!!!
16:57<@SmatZ>planetmaker: uh huh!
16:57<@petern>the one i need to start :p
16:57<matma6>i think this is not good
16:57<matma6>nvm
16:57<@Belugas>the one with one tile, petern?
16:57<@Belugas>hehehe
16:57<@petern>yes!
16:57<planetmaker>:P
16:58<@petern>but that 1 tile works well ;)
16:58<planetmaker>matma6: just tell your suggestion :)
16:58<@Belugas>matma6, it looks like there is more than just one person who think it's not "not good" :D
16:58<matma6>i think you should add a few tools
16:58<@Belugas>a saw? a wrench? a hammer?
16:58<dyzdyz>lol
16:58<planetmaker>a wrench will be good
16:59<matma6>1. a lines
16:59<planetmaker>to loosen the screws on the vehicle axes: increased breakdowns
16:59<@Belugas>lines? what do you mean?
16:59<matma6>it means i will create a : a>b>c>d
16:59<matma6>and i ll give this instruction to 10 buses
16:59<planetmaker>vehicle orders?
16:59<planetmaker>it's possible
16:59<dyzdyz>shared orders?
16:59<@petern>lines is basically doing cloned vehicles the opposite way
17:00<@petern>set up the orders first then build vehicles with those orders
17:00<matma6>but if i change the line?
17:00<dyzdyz>shared orders?
17:00<planetmaker>using shared orders, it's possible, matma6
17:00<@petern>not quite the same
17:00<matma6>maybe, i don't speak english very well
17:00<matma6>how?
17:00<dyzdyz>matma6: go priv
17:00<dyzdyz>matma6: go to prv, we'll talk in polish
17:01<|Japa|>I tried starting on a comic GRF, got as far as grass, dirt, and a few in-between tiles
17:02<planetmaker>petern: though not the same, it's just another means to the same end
17:02<planetmaker>Though I remember an earlier TT-forums discussion started by brianetta(?) about vehicle lists... which might have included exactly that proposal :)
17:02<|Japa|>I got thise far: http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/d8e5fc78fzwfuw1043j0.png
17:03<@petern>that's too plain
17:03<@petern>right, decoded opengfx, so i know what's what...
17:03<|Japa|>I know
17:03<@petern>ah
17:03<matma6>so thx
17:03<matma6>it was Ctrl
17:04<matma6>cya
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17:04<planetmaker>bye!
17:04<planetmaker>petern: that grass may be plain. But if you think of a setting where you build a toy railways within LEGO land or so, it's be quite fitting.
17:05<@petern>it's not like the comic pack though :(
17:05-!-batti5 [~batti5@92.82.85.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:05<@Belugas>|Japa|, that's a nice start. too plain, as petern said, but a nice one
17:05<planetmaker>nope. Different thing :)
17:05<@petern>where's my 3981
17:05*planetmaker hands petern a 1138
17:05<planetmaker>:P
17:06<@petern>must be in my windows partition somewhere
17:07*Alberth hands petern window.cpp
17:08<@Belugas>ho fuck....
17:08<@Belugas>bye!!!
17:09<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:09<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:09<Alberth>bye Belugas
17:10<planetmaker>bye Belugas !
17:16<Nite_Owl>I just love that newly installed nightly smell
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17:17<@Rubidium>does that smell like burnt PCBs?
17:18<Nite_Owl>sort of a cross between 'new car smell' and jasmine
17:19<Nite_Owl>of course you do need to download the proper libraries and the nasal plug in for your OS
17:20<[wito]>so who's gonna be writing a Toyland -> Moon conversion? ;D
17:21<@Rubidium>the person that has not been here for more than a year: somebody!
17:21<[wito]>Rubidium: Why so serious? :P
17:22<@Rubidium>serious?
17:23<[wito]>Despite appearances, I know that this is not #openttd-programming-requests. :P
17:24<planetmaker>[wito]: so... what's wrong with the existing mars grf?
17:24<planetmaker>except that it needs industry replacement?
17:24<planetmaker>kinda funny to have on mars a) toyshops b) seas of magma instead of water / ice / sand
17:25<[wito]>Indeed
17:25<[wito]>Dry Ice Mines, perhaps?
17:25<planetmaker>mars shouldn't have maps with water :)
17:26<planetmaker>dry ice... well. you'd rather mine for real water ice :)
17:26<planetmaker>if I were there.
17:26<[wito]>true
17:27<Prof_Frink>Oxygen generators, Total Recall style.
17:27<[wito]>well, I suppose if you have a nuclear plant that isn't "doing anything", extracting oxygen from dry ice is an option
17:28<[wito]>it also gives tons of carbon for those nanotubes you need oh-so-dearly
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17:28<|Japa|>how about the 'water'being a deep abyss?
17:29<[wito]>nah, Mars doesn't really have those
17:30<[wito]>in fact, it doesn't really have much of anything
17:30<[wito]>being geologically dead and all
17:30<[wito]>It is, for all intents and purposes, a huge rock. :P
17:30<Alberth>it is just bloody cold there
17:30<[wito]>Terraforming Mars:
17:30<[wito]>1) Nuke the planet core until plate tectonics take place
17:30<[wito]>2) ????
17:31<[wito]>3) PROFIT
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17:34<|Japa|>unlike some people, mmy ass does not produce numbers, makes lying a bitch
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17:43<planetmaker>[wito]: Mars has quite some stuff :) iron, carbon, helium, oxygen. It just needs work to extract it
17:43<planetmaker>but no technical means will start plate tectonics
17:44<Prof_Frink>planetmaker: You should know
17:44<[wito]>I'm fairly certain that if you drilled to the center of the planet and set of enough nukes to reduce the innermost third or so of the planet to liquid stone you could get something going. :P
17:44<planetmaker>maybe a civilization type 2 - with access to the ressources of a whole solar sytem will have those means.
17:45<planetmaker>[wito]: there's not enough uranium...
17:45<planetmaker>and you couldn't drill there
17:45<Prof_Frink>It's called unobtainium for a reason ;)
17:45<planetmaker>hehe
17:45<[wito]>helium-cooled carbon-steel drills should get you pretty far down. :P
17:45<planetmaker>nope
17:46<[wito]>you could also blow off the entire stockpile of nuclear waste
17:46<[wito]>I'm not saying it's done in a day
17:46<planetmaker>to what extend would that help?
17:46<[wito]>Put enough radioactive material in one spot, and stuff begins to happen. :P
17:47<planetmaker>you'll have a bit of hot area. On a human scale. On a planetary scale that's nothing
17:47<Prof_Frink>I say we give the magratheans a call. They're pretty good at this stuff.
17:47<planetmaker>:P
17:47<planetmaker>the vogons are also good with it
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17:48<[wito]>well,
17:48<[wito]>it might not work
17:48<[wito]>but just trying would be a worthwhile way of getting rid of the worlds nuclear arsenal and nuclear waste in one go. :P
17:49<planetmaker>nope
17:49<planetmaker>you would nicely scatter it around the globe.
17:49<[wito]>It's Mars, what were you gonna do there anyway? :P
17:49<planetmaker>build habitats :D
17:50<planetmaker>but ESA wouldn't let me :(
17:50<[wito]>pah
17:50<[wito]>you just build yourself a rocket and vamoose
17:50<[wito]>see what they can do about it. :P
17:51<[wito]>What are they gonna do?
17:51<[wito]>Send a police-spaceship to Mars and arrest you? :P
17:52<Prof_Frink>Pfft, just put lasers on your spaceship.
17:52<planetmaker>one bloody laser is sufficient to incapacitate a space ship :)
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17:55<[wito]>space ships are pretty fast things
17:55<[wito]>and they can't very well incapacitate it during takeoff, that'd be tantamount to murdering the crew
17:55<planetmaker>nope :P
17:55<[wito]>and once you've cleared orbit, they really don't have any authority. :P
17:55<planetmaker>(wrt fast)
17:55<[wito]>they're faster than a bike
17:55<planetmaker>he... the kingdom of Mars :P
17:56<[wito]>More like Empire
17:56<[wito]>(keep in mind, it's a whole planet)
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18:03<DASPRiD>pm built so many planets, one more doesnt matter
18:03<planetmaker>:P
18:03<DASPRiD>tallking about planets, 2 days ago i finally saw final fantasy, awesome movie :)
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19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15677 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2546]: vehicle images would be determined during the process of moving
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: the vehicle which means that only the (orientation) data for the vehicles in
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: front of it is valid. Now the data for the vehicles behind the vehicle are valid
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: too.
19:24<[wito]>Rubidium: sorry to bother you sir, but I'm having a really weird crash
19:25<@petern>no, it's a feature
19:25<[wito]>When choosing newGRF Settings from the main menu for so to press "Apply Changes", openTTD segfaults. :P
19:25<[wito]>latest revision
19:25<[wito]>but has been like that for at least one revision
19:26<[wito]>The weird part is that it doesn't crash if I go into newgrf setting on a new game
19:27-!-dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:28<planetmaker>[wito]: main menu = within a running game?
19:28<planetmaker>changing newgrfs on an existing game?
19:28<@petern>$ bin/openttd
19:28<@petern>Segmentation fault
19:28<[wito]>no, Start screen
19:28<@petern>yeah it does
19:28<planetmaker>he...:(
19:29<@petern>0x000000000065edf9 in UpdateVehiclePosHash (v=0x1f56ca0, x=-740, y=2687) at /home/petern/ottd/trunk4/src/v
19:29<@petern>ehicle.cpp:439
19:31<[wito]>that seems like an extremely odd place to crash?
19:31<@petern>how so?
19:32<[wito]>well, wouldn't line 439 be
19:32<[wito]>while (u != v) {
19:32<[wito]>?
19:32*petern ponders performance of r15677
19:33<@petern>(extra chain loop, always get new image even if vehicle not moved, etc...)
19:34<@Rubidium>it isn't significantly slower with some savegames with lots of vehicles I've tested it in
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19:34<@Rubidium>especially when you compare it to r15670 ;)
19:34<@petern>hm
19:35<[wito]>First time OpenTTD has ever crashed on me, btw. ;D
19:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15678 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix (r15676): crash when (re)applying newgrf settings
19:35<@Rubidium>[wito]: then you haven't been doing your best at crashing it
19:35<@petern>and no, :439 is "u = u->next_hash" :p
19:36<[wito]>petern: oh
19:36<@petern>Rubidium, it just seem we have masses of redundancy
19:36<[wito]>stupid less-style line-numbering. :P
19:37<@petern>updating the (new) vehicle position hash just cos the image has changes
19:37<@petern>-s+d
19:37<@petern>less-style?
19:37<@petern>more like "having the same version as me" line-numbering
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21:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15679 /trunk/src/town.h: -Cleanup: Little code-style application
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 12 00:00:49 2009