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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-12

---Logopened Thu Mar 12 00:00:49 2009
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04:30<planetmaker>good morning
04:34<planetmaker>:) salut dihedral :)
04:34<welshdragon>bon matin
04:35<welshdragon>hmm, i can say good morning in 8 languages.....
04:36<dihedral>oi ^^
04:36<dihedral>good for you ;-)
04:38<welshdragon>good morning, bore da (welsh), bon matin. guten morgen, kalimera (greek), buenas dias :P
04:38<welshdragon>the german might be wrong
04:39<dihedral>puts {good morning} | System.out.println("good morning"); | echo "good morning"; | .......
04:48<lstor>welshdragon: 'morgen' spells with an upper-case M, otherwise correct
04:48<welshdragon>thank you
04:48<lstor>welshdragon: And if you add "God morgen", you have Norwegian/Danish as well ;)
04:48<welshdragon>ooh :D
04:50<lstor>dihedral: putStrLn "good morning" | cout << "good morning"; | print "good morning"; | <complex perl regex formatted as a sun rising over the horizon> | ...
05:03<@petern>hah, 4 sprites in my 32bpp pack now ;p
05:04<planetmaker>wooah :)
05:04<@petern>hmm, actually 5 but i forgot to push the last one to the repo :(
05:05<@petern>ne'er mind, plenty of others to work on
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05:44<@petern>is it me or is it possible to use stations as multipoint waypoints these days, with go via orders?
05:45<@Rubidium>it is you ;)
05:45<@Rubidium>it's been possible for very long ;)
05:45<@petern>i never used waypoints either ;p
05:46<@Rubidium>as long as you had the 'right' non-stop setting
05:46<@petern>but we could remove the bit that ignores waypoint class stations for building stations...
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05:49<@Rubidium>in 0.2.0 ttdp nonstop, i.e. via, was introduced as an option
05:50<@Rubidium>so since 0.2.0 you could use stations as waypoints
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05:50<@petern>but ttdp nonstop was shit
05:51<@petern>because it broke the meaning of non-stop
05:53<planetmaker>long ago... what did it mean or imply?
05:54<@Rubidium>planetmaker: your context parser is broken, please attend to it
05:55<planetmaker>uhm... no?
05:55<planetmaker>but maybe my ability to properly express myself :)
05:56<planetmaker>I was asking whether one could refresh my memory what were the results, if "ttdp-compatible non-stop behaviour" was activated.
05:56<@Rubidium>10:49 <@Rubidium> in 0.2.0 ttdp nonstop, i.e. via, was introduced as an option
05:57<planetmaker>hm... :) You're right. Context parser was broken :P
05:59*planetmaker slurps more tea
06:02<racetrack>hmm tea, good idea
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06:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15680 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: remove redundant comment
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06:58<dihedral>redundant comments? :-P
07:01<blathijs>Aren't comments redundant by definition? "The code says it all!"
07:01<@SmatZ>there wasn't "wagon_removal" parameter
07:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15681 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Cleanup: remove unneeded forward declaration.
07:05<@SmatZ>Aren't forward declarations redundant by definition? "C doesn't need function declarations" (ok, that wasn't that funny :-p
07:06<@Rubidium>blathijs: comments aren't always redundant
07:07<@Rubidium>blathijs: e.g.
07:07<blathijs>Rubidium: yeah, you're right :-)
07:07<@Rubidium>the code doesn't tell us that Windows is stupid
07:07<[wito]>SmatZ: actually, forward declarations are more like "predundant"
07:08<@Rubidium>blathijs: nor that OSX is stupid:
07:08<@Rubidium>and there's probably some place where Linux is stupid too
07:10<[wito]>Well, when you're programming simultaneously for 3 major versions of an operating system, there's gonna be some wiggles. :P
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07:11<[wito]>nice work on the newGRF apply bug
07:13<@Rubidium>the 'issues' I've just linked shouldn't be classified as wiggles
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07:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15682 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Codechange: some coding style
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07:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15683 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15670): Removing town-owned bridges was no longer possible.
07:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15684 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_event.hpp ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp ai_order.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIOrder::SkipToOrder().
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08:26<|Japa|>behold, roads shamelessley ripped from Simutrans:
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08:34<@petern>which, incidentally, has the non-town roads
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08:37<|Japa|>that site confuses me
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08:37<@petern>it's an hg repo, obviously
08:38<|Japa|>yes, I can see that
08:38<|Japa|><-- noob
08:41<|Japa|>difference is, I'm doing it in 8bpp
08:42<@petern>much harder
08:42<@petern>you have to mess around with grf files
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08:42<|Japa|>also true
08:44<Ammler>you need to code the 32bpp sprites too ;-)
08:45<Ammler>does the "original" version also have comic trains?
08:45<Ammler>(never saw them on screens)
08:45<@petern>are you implying i'm copying?!?!?!?!
08:46<@Rubidium>mentally copying at least ;)
08:46<@petern>there's one
08:46<@petern>unless that's a tram
08:46<@Rubidium>the idea isn't original ;)
08:47<|Japa|>I'm freely admitting that I'm blatantly ripping off the pak64comic set
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08:48<Ammler>|Japa|: when I read the thread there once, you wouldn't be allowed to, did you ask?
08:49<@petern>you must've misread
08:49<Ammler>at least something like "not opensource"
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08:51<@petern>that's only a problem if you copy it
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08:51<Ammler>well, I guess, they would share it anyway, if you ask...
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08:53<|Japa|>I'm pretty sr they're just saying that it can't be directly converted
08:53<|Japa|>I didn't see anything about us doing a set that looks eerilly similar
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08:54<Ammler>the comic style would be awesome, it just needs to replace everything. :-)
08:54<@petern>gotta start somewhere
08:55<@petern>anyway, my stuff is in hg so that others can add their own stuff
08:55<dihedral>i would help if i knew how ^^
08:56<@petern>dihedral: draw
08:56<|Japa|>I guess I can upload my 8 bit stuff
08:56<|Japa|>grf to html gives nice pings
08:56<dihedral>petern, correct sizes would be helpful to know ;-)
08:57<@petern>the correct size is "whatever looks right"
08:57<|Japa|>I'm doing origional sizes, naturally
08:57<@petern>there's a blank tile template
08:58<|Japa|>actually, I just draw over the origional sprites
08:58<Ammler>reminds me of the lego replacement...
08:58<dihedral>yes - that is awesome
08:58<dihedral>just.... stalled
08:59<@petern>i decoded opengfx to see what sprite is what
09:00<dihedral>in all honesty, i dont find all opengfx things that pretty
09:00<dihedral>e.g. some vehicles look smaller / thinner when they are displayed in a certain angle
09:00<|Japa|>decoding opengfx results in pre-coded NFOs
09:00<Ammler>you need time to go familiar with the colors
09:00<dihedral>or monorail just looks really wide
09:01<@petern>|Japa|, yes, but i'm not interested in making 8bpp sprites
09:01<|Japa|>and I am
09:02<|Japa|>mainly since my CPU can't handle the big zooms on 32bbp
09:02<dihedral>petern, dont the grf's also inlcude data like max speed of vehicle?
09:02<dihedral>how do you do that with 32bpp sprites. as they are sprites and sprites only
09:02<Ammler>|Japa|: zoom isn't in trunk anyway...
09:02<@petern>you've always been able to zoom...
09:03<Ammler>(I assumed, he meant the additional levels)
09:04<|Japa|>no, I mean the other direction max zoom
09:05<|Japa|>seeing loads of shit at once
09:06<|Japa|>anyhoo, petern, I feel that I must warn you that I will most likeley butcher your sprites by making them 8bpp
09:07<@petern>feel free
09:07<@petern>i don't have to use them :)
09:07<|Japa|>they look far better than my first attemopt at sprites ever
09:09<FauxFaux>Mmm, I like that, very tron.
09:09<FauxFaux>/defcon / any other number of replications.
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09:12<@petern>could work
09:12<@petern>toyland replacement :)
09:12<@petern>do the whole thing in that kind of style and it would work
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09:13<racetrack>awesome, my drive-through depots are working
09:13<racetrack>this code has broken my mind for four days
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09:13<|Japa|>racetrack, can they be varying lenghts too?
09:14<racetrack>the depots? not in scope for this patch
09:15<@Belugas>[09:06] <|Japa|> seeing loads of shit at once <--- easy to remove: just flush the toilet
09:16<Forked>if it's loads .. you might have to doubleflush
09:16<|Japa|>he he
09:16<Forked>and then there are the floaters.. little bastards never going down
09:17<@petern>most of the office has gone out for lunch
09:17<@petern>just me and the boss left
09:17<@petern>so he's just gone to get us a pizza :D
09:17<Forked>what you want are the dolphins.. they are just perfectly hydrodynamically formed and will flush themself.
09:17<Forked>petern: sweet
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09:22*petern ponders making more sprites during lunch
09:23*|Japa| decides to not use petern's sprites
09:23<@Rubidium>petern: stop wasting time pondering and just do it! :D
09:24<@Rubidium>or finish one of those other projects of you, e.g. engine pool
09:24<|Japa|>I'at an advantage here
09:25<|Japa|>nobody expec anything from me, so I won't be letting anybody down
09:25<@Rubidium>actually... by talking about it here people WILL be expecting something from you
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09:26<Forked>I expect to get what I pay for... anything more than that is a bonus :p
09:29<|Japa|>Rubidium, dammit! foiled!
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09:30<@petern>what needs doing to the engine pool?
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09:30<@petern>apart from the newgrf id varaction check, heh
09:31<@petern>(but anyone could do that ;))
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09:34<@Rubidium>petern: ask the people that keep telling it's flawed
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09:38<@Belugas>the people? like... two individuals?
09:41<@Belugas>[09:26] <|Japa|> nobody expec anything from me, so I won't be letting anybody down <--- "i've done it-i'm working on it" is far more welcome that "i'll do it"
09:41<Celestar>oh my god.
09:42<@Belugas>that's the whole deal
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09:42<@Belugas>Celestar, call me Belugas...
09:42<@Belugas>or JF, even
09:42<Celestar>colleage decides to need more RAM. colleage buys ram without asking me first. colleage buys wrong RAM (FBDIMMS cuz 'it's the most expensive'). colleage uses hammer to insert module into DIMM slot. colleage breaks mainboard in two.
09:43<lolman>Celestar, colleague is full of fail? :P
09:44<SpComb>Celestar: get yourself a better collegue
09:44<@Belugas>reminds me the frst time i saw a 3.5 floppy. i forced it the wrong side on the computer. broke the disk driver of course... walked innocently out of the lab..
09:45<SpComb>(and that's three different spellings of 'colleague')
09:46<Celestar>heh. I always forget the u
09:48<Celestar>I mean the people are graduated engineers. And if something doesn't fit, they don't come up with the idea to check whether they're doing the right thing; now, they grab a sledgehammer.
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09:49<@petern>literally a hammer?
09:50<Celestar>apparently O_o
09:50<Celestar>"but a small one"
09:50<Celestar>at least, there are CRACKS in the mainboard
09:55<@Belugas>and they smoked it?
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10:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15685 /trunk/src/ (heightmap.cpp heightmap.h landscape.cpp): -Fix [FS#2720]: do not crash when someone substitutes the "map generation" sprites with garbage.
10:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15686 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Codechange: make it a bit harder for crashes to trash your config file.
10:22<@petern>commit machine
10:23<racetrack>wip stuff for the interested
10:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15687 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2723]: wrong/misleading error message when autorail builds nothing when trying to build over signals in the wrong way.
10:24<[wito]>Rubidium: did you fix the Chi while you were in there? :P
10:24<@petern>that's your job
10:24<@petern>we're waiting for the new map generator
10:25<@Rubidium>what's whom's job?
10:26<[wito]>is there some sort of interface between the map generator and the rest of the program, or is it just a function that's called?
10:26*Yexo has a nearly-working patch that makes is possible to use a squirrel script as map generator
10:26<[wito]>(e.g. a MapGenerator class to subclass, with callbacks to get configuration options etc.
10:26<@petern>not yet
10:27<Yexo>[wito]: it's just a function that gets called, or (in the case of the origianl map generator), some inline code
10:27<NukeBuster>Whats wrong with the current mapgenerator?
10:27<[wito]>NukeBuster: bad Chi
10:28<@Belugas>God Bless You
10:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15688 /trunk/src/genworld.cpp: -Codechange: unifiy cleaning up the map generation (normal and abort)
10:29<[wito]>once there's a decent interface for it, I'll write a map generator
10:29<Yexo>[wito]: I'll hold you to that promise :p
10:30<[wito]>(DISCLAIMER: Any definiton of "decent" is held at the total description of the party designated "[wito]".)
10:31<@Belugas>including a big button "read my mind and do it"
10:31<[wito]>Belugas: exactly that kind of map generator, in fact
10:32<@Belugas>big mouth
10:33<planetmaker>Yexo: I'm sure that the Kurt's hard goal ressurection people will be interested in it :)
10:33<@Belugas>ho.. you mean the KHGR ?
10:33<Yexo>planetmaker: I doubt it (why do they need a special map geneator?)
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10:34<planetmaker>Yexo: not exactly that. But to build on the then obviously extended squirrel API to openttd :)
10:34<planetmaker>Belugas: whatever acronyms they fancy currently :P
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10:34<Yexo>half my code is copy-paste from the noai code (still needs to unify some of that)
10:34<Yexo>but that doesn't really help to create other squirrel scripts
10:35<planetmaker>despite, they'll know what to copy&paste :)
10:35<Yexo>dihedral worked on a squirrel console, that is the thing that would be useful for them
10:35<planetmaker>but last time I spoke with one of them, Yorick is planning a python interface :D harhar
10:35<@Rubidium>planetmaker: like STFUIDCATT?
10:36<@Rubidium>or DYKT[HAPOMIL?
10:37<planetmaker>or like tihS
10:37<@Belugas>yorick works with them? buwhahahahah!!!!
10:37<@Belugas>long life to them !
10:37<planetmaker>I told them :) They still think, they're in control :D
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10:38<@Rubidium>live long and get annoyed ;)
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10:39<planetmaker>hehe :)
10:39<Noldo>who's they?
10:39<planetmaker>have alook at the website... I only recall energetic(?)
10:40<planetmaker>search for KHG, OHG and the above mentioned buzz phrases
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10:41<planetmaker>They seem to start too ambitious IMO.
10:41<planetmaker>They plan the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau"; but in order to keep that server alife, they'd need something working soon...
10:42<@petern>what's their problem? was it all based on 0.6?
10:42<planetmaker>and Kurt doesn't hand over his stuff and discontinues it with the publishing of 0.7
10:42<@petern>and it must be really horrible code because kurt doesn't want to release it
10:43<planetmaker>s/eierlegende Wollmilchsau/jack of all trades device/
10:45<@Belugas>if yorick is on the team, you can bet safely on that
10:48<@petern>ssshhh, you'll summon him
10:50<planetmaker>don't you have an ignore anyway? ;)
10:50<@Belugas>yes, and we even have The Power Of Kick
10:50<@Belugas>yes, and we even have The Power Of Ban
10:50<planetmaker>yes we can!
10:51<planetmaker>stupid phrase stealing... ;)
10:56*Belugas hopes his "subtil" last post in comik96 thread might be more fruitfull than previous ones...
11:00<JapaMala>hey, I'm doing my best
11:01<@petern># you rmind me of the babe
11:01<@petern># (what babe?) the babe with the power
11:01<@petern># (what power?) the power of voodoo
11:01<@petern># (who do?) you do
11:01<@petern># (do what?) remind me of the babe
11:02<[wito]>Hu's next?
11:02<JapaMala>what's on first
11:03<@Rubidium>the font
11:03<JapaMala>actually, who's on first
11:03<@Belugas>the egg of the chicken?
11:03<@Rubidium>I vote for "Comic Sans MS" ;)
11:03<JapaMala>what's on second
11:03<JapaMala>idunno's on third
11:03<@Rubidium>the living room
11:04<@Belugas>Third Rock From the Sun
11:04<@Belugas>The sun is too Loud, actually
11:07<JapaMala>he he
11:08*petern ponders a makefile
11:08<@petern>to convert 32bpp sprites to 8bpp and build the NFO
11:08<@petern>then have a joint 32/8bpp project
11:12<@Belugas>nice idea
11:13<@Rubidium>good luck with the conversion ;)
11:13<@petern>nearest colour
11:13<@petern>won't look ideal
11:14<@petern>possible :p
11:14<JapaMala>nearest color looks better than dithering, imho
11:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15689 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp lang/english.txt town_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2720]: do not crash when the generate map doesn't contain a suitable location for a town.
11:14<JapaMala>then manual color replacement
11:15<@Rubidium>or introduce goodgerbits
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11:33*Belugas jumps of joy!
11:34<@Belugas>We're No Here!
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11:40<taisteluorava>hm, is there a easy way to increase load interest rate higher than 4% which is maximium in difficult settings
11:41<Yexo>change the code and recompile
11:41<Yexo>should be an easy change
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11:41<@Belugas>not so easy, Yexo
11:42<@Belugas>it seems it can not go higher than 4 %
11:42<@Belugas>from what i remember that tron told me
11:42<@Belugas>it has to do with integer arithmetics (iirc)
11:42<Yexo>that can be the case
11:43<Noldo>it overflows?
11:44<taisteluorava>so there is no easy way to do that. it will make game way more challenging and interesting :/
11:44<Yexo>a quick test with 20% did work as expected
11:44<Yexo>not saying there aren't any problems
11:44<@Rubidium>inflation doesn't make the game more interesting
11:44<@Rubidium>actually... higher inflation makes it easier to earn gazillions
11:45<Noldo>taisteluorava: there is a grf that makes building more expencive
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11:45<@Rubidium>what will make the game harder is decoupling the income increase from the inflation
11:46<Noldo>is there any gameplay point to inflation anyway?
11:47<@Rubidium>income rising with 19% and costs with 20% is much easier than income rising with 0% and costs with 2%
11:47<@Rubidium>Noldo: yes, it makes the relative distance between income and costs higher
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11:48<Yexo>Rubidium: the question was about loan interest, not inflation
11:48<@Rubidium>the 'fun' thing is that with 4% inflation the prices grow by 3%; with 2% inflation the prices grow 1%. Relatively 1.04/1.03 < 1.02/1.01 so with lower inflation the game gets harder
11:49<Yexo>you're right thought that higher inflation doesn't help that much
11:49<@Rubidium>Yexo: those are all related
11:49<Yexo>hmm, forgot that point :)
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11:50<@Rubidium>even so, high interest ONLY makes the begin harder. Once you've got enough money it doesn't get harder at all
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11:55<@Belugas>[11:45] <taisteluorava> so there is no easy way to do that. it will make game way more challenging and interesting :/ <--- that, i truely doubt. On what logic do you base your assertion? please... not the realistic one...
11:58<taisteluorava>becose when you can earn some cash, first think is start to pay loan back, not to take more loan becose its so "cheap"
11:59<taisteluorava>it will be realistic
11:59<@Rubidium>there's an easy way to make a game more challenging: make a 128x128 map that transports at least 1 000 000 cargo a year
12:00<[wito]>average station rating as a 100 point entry on the performance rating? :P
12:00<taisteluorava>yeah, play a lot multiplayer in lan. 128x128 map in multiplayer is pretty fun
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12:04<@Belugas>[12:00] <taisteluorava> it will be realistic <--- right... FALSE!
12:05<@Belugas>right now, since we are in crisis, the loans are getting down to boost economy
12:05<@Belugas>since you are starting , you need a boost.
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12:05<@Belugas>so your logic is flawed by your desire of a more difficult game
12:06<@Belugas>basically, you're throwing a rock in the water and see how it would behave
12:07<el_en>viva la réalism!
12:08-!-el_en was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [viva le QUICK!]
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12:08<@Belugas>that too :D
12:09-!-el_en [] has joined #openttd
12:09<el_en>it was quite realistic to assume someone could consider kicking because of such a comment.
12:10<@Belugas># so don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire
12:10<@Belugas>Mick Jagger is often right :)
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12:39<OsteHovel^EEE>Someone here have any knowledge about compiling Binutils & GCC to crosscompile?
12:39-!-const86 [~const@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:39<OsteHovel^EEE>Im trying to build GCC to target = i686-pc-linux-gnu on a Cygwin host...
12:42<@Rubidium>TrueBrain does
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15690 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Feature(tte(tte)): CTRL-"New Game" skips the "World generation" window.
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12:53<@Belugas>YOU LAZY BUNCH!
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12:57<@Belugas>whoo... prissi enters the ring
12:57<@Belugas>so.. back to work going i now am
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13:05<@petern>"graphics Georg got for the ECS are from simutrans (albeit he did not scaled them properly, imho)"
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13:07-!-wito is now known as [wito]_
13:07<[wito]_>now I have to wait for my old nick to timeout
13:08<Yexo>just register with nickserv, and when you identify you directly get your old nick back
13:08<[wito]_>Yexo: problem is
13:09<[wito]_>I didn't register any group nicks. :P
13:09<[wito]_>so there is no nick I can use to identify so that I may ghost
13:09<Yexo>[wito]_: use /msg nickserv identify <password> <username>
13:10<Yexo>not that it really matters now anymore, since [wito] already left before you said you had to wait
13:11-!-[wito]_ is now known as [wito]
13:11<[wito]>did not know that. :P
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14:01<@Belugas>Zuu, it might be way TMWFTLB
14:01<@Belugas>but thanks for answering
14:02<@Belugas>hello, by the way :)
14:02<@Belugas>manners.. manners...
14:02<@Belugas>too much work for too little benefit
14:02<Zuu>I realized that but you were faster on the keyboard :)
14:03<Zuu>My idea with the container I think is not that much work actually, compared to trying to make it OOP.
14:04<Zuu>But if you though adding multiple edit boxes would be a quick fix, then you would ineed be disappointed :)
14:04<@Belugas>well... honestly, i briefly read it, i printed it out for the bus ride home tonight
14:04<@Belugas>i am a little bit, yes :)
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14:05<@Belugas>but i think it couldbe made relatively simple
14:05<@Belugas>dunno how clean that would be, honestly
14:06<Zuu>The main challenge would be to add storage of the editbox string and caret position for each edit box. But once you have sorted that I think it shouldn't be that hard.
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14:06<Nevah>Hi guys
14:07<Zuu>And that can certainly be quick fixed or made in a very clean way.
14:07-!-Nevah [~Neva@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:07<Zuu>Depending on how *much* time one want to spend on it. :)
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14:08<planetmaker>hey Nevah
14:08<@Belugas>agreed Zuu
14:08<@Belugas>let say that the feature will use query input box for the time being :)
14:08<Zuu>Cleanest would probably be OOP Widgets, but thats a lot of work if you want to revamp the widgets table also.
14:09<Zuu>Belugas: That is the way fastest way to do it :)
14:09<Nevah>when I start the game I can't build train tracks
14:09<Nevah>or airports
14:09<Zuu>Nevah: At what year are you?
14:09<@Belugas>Nevah, it might be because at the time you start, no trains nor airports are abvailable
14:10<Nevah>ok i check out that
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14:11<@petern>bah, nothing wrong with the widget tables
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14:12<Neva>Yeah that was the problem, thanks :D
14:12<Zuu>petern: Didn't say it was bad, or did I?
14:13<Neva>thank you for help, cya
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14:14<@petern>i dunno, i wasn't really paying attention :D
14:15<Zuu>I just said that if one wants to make it more OOP, one might want to change that table. But I don't think making the GUI OOP, just for making it OOP is worth the effort.
14:15*Belugas 's opinion is that said data might be better held in the window, but he's not too sure about that
14:15<Zuu>(OOP on widgetlevel that is)
14:16<@Belugas>it would only benefit some special corners, like that one
14:16<@Belugas>on the other hand, logically... it's a differnt story
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14:25<@Belugas>and another happy customer
14:26<Zuu>Ok :)
14:30<@Belugas>no kidding.... nrg -> energy
14:30<@Belugas>stupid stupid stupid
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14:31<Zuu>Hmm, there is quite a lot interaction with the edit box related variables in QueryString and QueryStringBaseWindow class.
14:31-!-George3 is now known as George
14:31<@Rubidium>Zuu: some OOPifying of the widgets is needed to nicely support RTL (see FS#1905)
14:33<Zuu>RTL = right typing language?
14:33<+glx>right to left
14:35<Zuu>Af of course :)
14:37-!-|Japa| [~Japa@] has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> <-]
14:37<@Belugas>hoo.... there is finally hope... WE NEED A GERMAN SPEAKING GUY!!!
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14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15691 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-12 18:42:18
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by alyr (1)
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 258 fixed, 3 changed by Gubius (261)
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: persian - 146 fixed by ali sattari (146)
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 1 fixed by Smoky555 (1)
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14:49<[wito]>Upgrading an inner city line from 2->4 tracks is a right pain. :P
14:53<Zuu>Which I am sure it is IRL too :)
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14:57<el_en>Zuu: shhhhhh. sounds like a reference to realism.
14:58<Zuu>Sorry, I should do my traffic simulation assigment instead of talking about reality in here. :)
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15:00<el_en>does someone speak fluent latin?
15:00<Zuu>Interesting orig_str_buf in QueryStringBaseWindow seams unused. At least visual studio did not find any references to it. And compilation has not failed so fare.
15:01<Zuu>hmm, it was indeed used.
15:03<@Rubidium>Windows lesson #42: not being able to find something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that the searching algorithm is incompetent.
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15:04<Zuu>Actually it is not used, failure to compile was due to some other edits I made.
15:04<@Belugas>Windows Lesson #130: close it when it rains
15:05<@Rubidium>Belugas: 130? Isn't that like lesson #3?
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15:05<@Rubidium>lesson 1: walking through a closed window hurts
15:06<@Rubidium>lesson 2: if it's cold outside and inside, close the window you dimwit
15:08<Forked>hrm. I wish I could make the transparancy settings remember that I always want to see the percentage load on trains when they are loading/unloading. It resets every time I press 'x'
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15:10<@petern>el_en: stephen fry
15:12<Zuu>hmm, I don't really see any reason why we having QueryString and QueryStringBaseWindow clases/structs separated. (where QueryString now is a public base class of QueryStringBaseWindow)
15:13<Zuu>QS is only used as base class for QSBW and used as pointer at one instance. This pointer can easily be promoted to a QSBW-pointer.
15:15<frosch123>Forked: ctrl-click the train icon in transparency options?
15:15<Zuu>But I guess I should take a look on FS#1905 before starting out with anything serious.
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15:16<db48x>town names aren't choosen using the same random seed as the rest of the map generation
15:17-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:17<@Rubidium>db48x: what makes you think that?
15:19<@petern>you get a different layout
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15:19<db48x>if they were, then the town names would be the same from run to run on the same seed
15:20<Yexo>db48x: you've got a good point there
15:20<@Rubidium>hmm... I guess someone broke that part ;)
15:20<Yexo>guess that clasifies as bug, since restart doesn't work as it should
15:20*Rubidium blames SmatZ ;)
15:21<Yexo>that was my guess too :)
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15:23<@Rubidium>but then... the town name doesn't really matter for the layout
15:23<Pikka>oh shi
15:23<Pikka>I see what I did there
15:23<db48x>not very much, no
15:23<Yexo>town_cmd.cpp:1440 uses InteractiveRandom instead of Random
15:23<db48x>also, the seed setting in the config file doesn't seem to work
15:23<Yexo>Guess that was part of the attemt to make it work in-game
15:24<@Rubidium>Yexo: yup
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15:25<@Rubidium>I don't see any reason for the seed in the config file
15:25<db48x>it would really make testing easier
15:26<Yexo>db48x: iirc you can start openttd with -g seed, or something like that
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15:26<db48x>because I could set the seed to a constant value, and then run the map generation many times on the same seed, with different tweaks to the code
15:26*db48x tries
15:27<@Rubidium>actually -G and -g is new game
15:27<db48x>hmm, not -g
15:27<@Rubidium>but -G 42 -g starts reliably a game with seed 42
15:28<db48x>thanks :)
15:28<@petern>so have you fixed Chi?
15:29<goodger>petern: I think it needs to be measurable and defined before it can be fixed >.<
15:29-!-tkjacobsen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<@Rubidium>I got a big Χ and a small χ. Both seem unbroken to me
15:30<db48x>nah, I don't care about Chi
15:30<@petern>i chose horses
15:30<db48x>I just noticed that it's only ever using 6 octaves of noise
15:31<db48x>on big maps that's suboptimal
15:32-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
15:33<db48x>also, the code is very silly
15:33<db48x>it starts out by calculating the number of octaves based on the map size, but then it clamps it to just 0 through 6
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15:34<@petern>improve it
15:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15692 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2721]: Just sell the old engines after autorenew/replace. Don't bother about trains exceeding the trainlimit, which will be sold anyway.
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15:42<frosch123>[20:37] <db48x> it starts out by calculating the number of octaves based on the map size, but then it clamps it to just 0 through 6 <- haha, before it was clamped, it looked up the octave is a table filled with zeros :)
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15:42<@petern>so what's an octave in landscape generation terms?
15:43<frosch123>you increment the octave if you double the frequency, resp. half the stepsize
15:44<@petern>frequency of what?
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15:45<frosch123>tgp first calculated the heights at the map corners, i.e. in four points
15:45<Noldo>petern: noise I guess
15:45<frosch123>then it halfes the stepsize and computes the height in 5 additional points, so you get the heights on a 3x3 grid
15:46<frosch123>then you half the stepsize again...
15:46<frosch123> <- similiar to those methods for solving PDE
15:46<frosch123>so I did not read the article :)
15:47<frosch123>you can also read tgp.cpp lines 286 to 298
15:51<pavel1269>if i have patch which contain lines "diff --git a/src/command.cpp b/src/command.cpp" .... its only for linux use? no windows program understand that?
15:52<Yexo>pavel1269: the program patch also runs under windows
15:52-!-Mortomes [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<Yexo>it's just tortoisesvn that doesn't understand it
15:52<frosch123>pavel1269: or do search&replace and remove the a/ and b/
15:52<pavel1269>program patch?
15:52<Yexo>yes, patch
15:53<frosch123>be careful to not change anything else, especially not whitespace
15:53<pavel1269>i would like program, which will apply patch and when conflict ... it will create .rej file :-)
15:53<Yexo>patch does exactly that
15:53<pavel1269>grat, ty
15:54<Yexo>install mingw or cygwin
15:54<pavel1269>i had cygwin ...
15:54<pavel1269>lets try mingw :-P
15:55-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15693 /trunk/projects/ (langs_vs80.vcproj langs_vs90.vcproj): -Fix (r15691): The msvc project files weren't updated to include luxembourgish.
16:08<@Belugas>planetmaker, you beat me...
16:08<planetmaker>uh, ?
16:09<planetmaker>not that I mind, but I have no idea what you're talking about :)
16:09<planetmaker>oh, tt-forums? :)
16:09<db48x>I don't like this implementation of perlin noise, either
16:10<db48x>it's not properly composable
16:10<planetmaker>working implementation is better than fictious one ;)
16:11<Noldo>or even planned
16:13<@Belugas>that indeed
16:14<planetmaker>now he can be sure :)
16:14<planetmaker>and he'll feel more that there's some real interest :)
16:15<planetmaker>what palette would you actually want the comic style in? 32 or 8?
16:15<planetmaker>s/palette/colour depths/
16:15<planetmaker>and maybe s/want/like/ :)
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16:19<@Belugas>32 wold be better, i guess
16:19<@Belugas>damned... i've grown an allergy to the U letter now...
16:20<@Belugas>more freedom and all
16:21<frosch123>restricts recolouring though :) but you can always use the alpha channel, also with recolouring
16:25<pavel1269>Belugas: why do u hate "U" so much? :-P
16:26<pavel1269>*you ^^ ... :D
16:27<@Belugas>i think you know exactly why :)
16:27<@Belugas>same as for Sensational Lover...
16:27<Forked>frosch123: thank you.
16:27<@Rubidium>r wi 1 o ur 1337 frndz?
16:27<pavel1269>i see, you are in good mood today :-)
16:27-!-Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:27<@Belugas>boy... is he on a big ride...
16:28<frosch123>so, R word, S word, U word, ... hmm, i thought there was one more...
16:28<planetmaker>e should be banned, too
16:28<Yexo>S word? /me wonders what that was
16:28<planetmaker>and maybe n
16:29<@Belugas>even more n+r+g
16:32<pavel1269>just downloaded mingw ...
16:32<pavel1269>installed ...
16:33<pavel1269>gonna get cygwin :-) .... do i understand right, that mingw is just some headers?
16:33<NukeBuster>what is that patchfile from?
16:33<OsteHovel^EEE>PNG 32bit :P
16:33<frosch123>ah, yes, the BBB word
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16:33<Yexo>pavel1269: no, mingw should include several executables
16:34<OsteHovel^EEE>Mingw is a GCC built for compiling Windows .exe files
16:34<pavel1269>i have to install C++ compiler to be able to aply patches?
16:34<Yexo>pavel1269: not to apply patches, but you do have to do that if you want to do anything usefull with the resulting code
16:34<OsteHovel^EEE>you can infact just download mingw+windows api headers and lib and download ordinary binutils & gcc and compile it under cygwin/or real linux (i did that yesterday)
16:35<pavel1269>Yexo: i have MSVS :-)
16:35<Yexo>then you already have a compiler installed
16:35<OsteHovel^EEE>i use mingw under cygwin + mingw under linux and distcc for both to speedup compiling times...
16:35<pavel1269>but how the hell i apply patches with that nwo?
16:36<Yexo>open a shell and type "patch -p1 < patchfile.diff"
16:36<@petern>patching isn't compiling
16:36<pavel1269>shell? ... :-) i am in win :-D
16:36<@petern>yes, windows has a shell
16:36<OsteHovel^EEE>you have cygwin?
16:36<pavel1269>petern: i compile under MSVS ... i just need to apply patch
16:36<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: no
16:36<@petern>cmd.exe, you may have heard of it
16:36<OsteHovel^EEE>Start->Run and type: cmd then you get shell in a ordinary windows
16:36<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: but gonna download him in 5mins :P
16:37<OsteHovel^EEE>use cygwin or MSYS
16:37<pavel1269>lol ahhh :-)
16:37<OsteHovel^EEE>i dont know witch one is the best
16:37<@Rubidium>you could try tortoises patch apply thingy, but that only works on a very small subset of patches
16:37<Yexo>pavel1269: better open bash, you'll get that with either msys or cygwin
16:37<OsteHovel^EEE>i have cygwin becouse it has more features but its SLOWER than mssys
16:37<pavel1269>Rubidium: i am trying this, cos i have now only tartoise :-D
16:37<pavel1269>that editor is ugly, and dont work at all patches at all
16:38<@Rubidium>wubi to the rescue! ;)
16:38<pavel1269>whats wubi? ^^
16:38<@Rubidium>faster than both cygwin and msys ;)
16:38<pavel1269>sth like Chi? :P
16:39<@Rubidium> ;)
16:39<pavel1269>oh ... ubuntu emulation? :-)
16:40<@Rubidium>kind of-ish
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16:42<[wito]>Is 206MB Vmem a lot?
16:42<pavel1269>problem ... my shell dont know patch command :-)
16:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15694 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Codechange/feature/fix: invert the order in which base graphics sets are queried making it fairly unlikely that downloaded graphics sets override the original graphics.
16:43<@Rubidium>pavel1269: your problem is that you don't know how to query application for their manual/howto
16:43<pavel1269>my problem is that my english is really bad
16:44<pavel1269>because i dont understand the second half of your sentence :-) ..... i dont know how can i find their manual?
16:44<@Belugas>keep on practiving, you're not so bad :D
16:45<@Belugas>vmem... ho... virtual memory
16:45<@Rubidium>pavel1269: for command line tools try -h or --help
16:45<Noldo>now that's a word
16:45<OsteHovel^EEE>a new one
16:45<pavel1269>Belugas: but you all will have to repair my poor gramar ^^
16:46<OsteHovel^EEE>Im thinking of compiling my gcc with --host=i586-mingw32 to get more performance...
16:46<pavel1269>otherwise i will still talk like ... you know :-D
16:46<OsteHovel^EEE>but i dont thing i get much
16:46<OsteHovel^EEE>good nite everybody!
16:47<pavel1269>Rubidium: "-h" "--help" "patch -h" "patch --help".... all unkown
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16:47<pavel1269>planet: <Rubidium> pavel1269: for command line tools try -h or --help
16:47<planetmaker>pavel: try -?
16:48<pavel1269>? i dont get it
16:48<@Rubidium>"patch --help" works for me, "patch -h" tells me to use "patch --help". If your patch doesn't then you're screwed and probably have some broken patch
16:48<planetmaker>or /help ...
16:48<pavel1269>i dont even know if i have patch .-D ... i jsut installed mingw
16:48<planetmaker>but Rubidium knows the tools on win - me not
16:49*planetmaker bangs head against wood
16:50<pavel1269>:-) .... looks like i am ..... hopeless
16:50*pavel1269 's downloading cygwin
16:51<frosch123>on certain crappy systems "gpatch" might also help :)
16:51<pavel1269>too late :-)
16:52<@SmatZ>@seen Celestar
16:52<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 1 minute, and 20 seconds ago: <Celestar> at least, there are CRACKS in the mainboard
16:52<@Belugas>and he was there smoking da stuff!
16:54<[wito]>anyone care to comment on station design? :ÅP
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16:55<pavel1269>i must stay, it look ugly for me
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16:58<planetmaker>looks like usual through-stations to me
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17:01<[wito]>this was the PITA 2->4 line, btw. ;P
17:02<pavel1269>how much you paid, that i cant download cygwin :-)
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17:07<@Rubidium>the 100 000 pounds I started my game with
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17:54<racetrack>am I right in thinking that its impossible for the original pathfinder (not ntp) to be used for trains? nowhere in the code does FollowTrack get called with tt = TRANSPORT_RAIL, so I think not
17:55<planetmaker>did you actually try it?
17:55<racetrack>yes :P
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17:55<@petern>why would you want to?
17:56<racetrack>but there's a lot of code, a lot of things to test. easier to ask incase somebody already knows
17:56<racetrack>I don't
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17:56<+glx>3 rail pathfinders are enough :)
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17:56<racetrack>my drive-through depot patch needs to patch anything that looks to see if a train can enter/exit a tile by a particular direction
17:56<+glx>and indeed the original one has been removed a long time ago
17:57<racetrack>CanAccessTileInDir in pathfind.cpp has such a test
17:57<racetrack>but never gets called
17:57<racetrack>and from my reading of the code, can never be called (anymore) for trains
17:57<racetrack>which is why I'm asking
17:57<racetrack>should I bother patching that function
17:57<racetrack>particularly since it doesn't seem that I can ever test my change
17:57<+glx>hmm but it's still used for signals IIRC
17:57<@SmatZ>racetrack: it used to be used for signals
17:58<racetrack>used to be? is not anymore?
17:58<racetrack>gtg breakfast, back soon
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18:17<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:19<goodger>hello Nite_Owl
18:19<Nite_Owl>Hello goodger
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18:45*db48x scowls at fixed-point math
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18:52<[wito]>stations "on" lines, Insanity?
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18:54<goodger>[wito]: what?
18:54<[wito]>You have a city A and a city B
18:54<[wito]>between them lies town C
18:54<[wito]>so you have a railway line that goes A->C->B
18:55<[wito]>with an ICE running between A and B, and a local train running A-C-B-C
18:56<[wito]>Is, in this situation, having the station C on the line (requiring the ICE to run (non-stop, of course) through station C) a good idea, or insanity?
18:57<goodger>[wito]: if the ICE is never going to stop there, then it's stupid, of course
18:59<[wito]>so how would you build the network in such a situation?
19:03<goodger>er, I would run the ICE line directly between A-B, assuming this is a shorter route than A-C-B, and then put A-C and B-C in separately
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19:12<[wito]>well, let's posit constraining terrain
19:14<goodger>then route the A-B line around the station
19:17<goodger>_or_ add new platforms to the station such that the B-C/A-C trains can also access said platforms
19:25<MrFrans>[wito], the local train would hold up the ice, on the line and when it is stopped at the station.
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19:38<[wito]>I'm the king of Unnecessaryland!
19:38<svip>That must be the greatest land of all.
19:39<[wito]>15 maglevs running in circles around a ziggurat built in a lake topped with my HQ
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19:40<svip>;-; The greatest land of all, indeed.
19:40<[wito]>now all I need to do is to drain the lake and fill it with a mammoth maglev snaking around an exessively intricate pattern
19:41<[wito]>(what else can you do with 200 million pounds in 2047? :P)
19:41<svip>Reminds me of the Copenhagen metro project.
19:41<goodger>[wito]: you could cure world hunger
19:42<svip>After the collapse in Cologne, they are now putting the project on hiatus.
19:42<svip>Because the "OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE" routine.
19:42<svip>One of the more crazy politicians have said we should stop the metro project, because God has spoken!
19:42<svip>Hm, I find it odd that God kept silent for all these years since London build their subway.
19:43<goodger>not really, the early london underground was riddled with collapse
19:43<svip>But no one called out craziness like this back then.
19:44<svip>Besides our equipment have become far more superior than back then.
19:44<svip>And the already existing line have had no issues.
19:44<goodger>isambard kingdom brunel himself nearly died when one of the underwater tunnels was flooded
19:44<[wito]>in hindsight, I probably should have drained the lake before building the ziggurat. :P
19:44<[wito]>oh well, live and learn
19:54<goodger>[wito]: you'll find that the water mysteriously disappears if you raise the land high enough
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15695 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature [FS#2672]: Allow the number of towns that will be generated in the generate world window to be customized.
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Some warnings:
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -the maximum number of towns to be accepted is set to 5000
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -the minimum number of towns to be accepted is set to 1
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -the number that is specified is NOT guaranteed to be the exact number of towns generated. The normal mechanism of town creation has not been modified. So town placement can still fail.
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -setting a custom number of town will change your difficulty settings to custom as well
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19:59<[wito]>goodger: not very helpful if you want to preserve the outline of the lake
20:00<goodger>[wito]: then extent the lake out a bit while raising your little mountain of insanity
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20:05<[wito]>I decided to go for a different look
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20:24<[wito]>how utterly unneccessary!
20:25<[wito]>4 mammoth trains circling a lake, in the middle of which another 15 trains are circling a HQ ziggurat
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20:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15696 /trunk/src/ (58 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move the NewGRF language ID into the language file instead of maintaining a table in the code.
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20:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15697 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r15695): warning about comparing signed vs unsigned.
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21:02<NukeBuster>you guys know of any issues with Red Hat and international fonts?
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21:07<[wito]>holy hannah!
21:07<[wito]>1024^2 ^G: 250 MB o.O
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21:15<NukeBuster>Ah! Finally after 3 years.... my Opera works normal again :)
21:16<NukeBuster>fontconfig had some corrupted cache files.
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 13 00:00:50 2009