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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-15

---Logopened Sun Mar 15 00:00:21 2009
---Daychanged Sun Mar 15 2009
00:00<spasm_1>./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: libicuuc.so.38:
00:00<spasm_1>Im gonna need to do it for all of em, arnt I
00:00<@glx>indeed :)
00:01<spasm_1>1 by 1?
00:01<spasm_1>damn
00:01<spasm_1>alrighty
00:02<@glx>only i18n, uc and data
00:02<spasm_1>It opened the window, then dies with this:
00:02<spasm_1>./openttd: symbol lookup error: ./openttd: undefined symbol: ubidi_openSized_3_8
00:03<@glx>stupid library :)
00:03<@glx>it hardcode version it seems
00:03<spasm_1>so, i need the old version
00:03<spasm_1>grrr
00:03<@glx>so the only way seems to compile openttd yourself
00:03<spasm_1>ok
00:03<spasm_1>thats what I was gonna try any ways
00:04<spasm_1>thanks for your help
00:04<@glx>remove the links you created (as they don't work)
00:04<spasm_1>yep
00:06<@glx>you'll need zlib-dev, libpng-dev, libicu-dev, sdl-dev, freetype-dev
00:07<spasm_1>I might already have some of them...
00:09<spasm_1>freetype2?
00:09<@glx>yes
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00:10<spasm_1>ok
00:10<@glx>hmm and fontconfig too
00:10<spasm_1>yep
00:11<@glx>if you have makedepend it's good too (speed up compilation)
00:11<spasm_1>yeah, Ive got that
00:14<@glx>once you have the libs, it's the usual stuff :)
00:14<@glx>./configure && make
00:15<spasm_1>yep
00:15<spasm_1>thanks again
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01:13<Yoshi5186>hi
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04:09<el_en>GOOD MORGEN
04:14<Forked>:-)
04:19<Alberth>good morning at this sunny sunday in the spring of the year 2009 AD
04:22<Prof_Frink>It is rather nice out.
04:22*Prof_Frink shall be heading out to play on Portland
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07:00<@Rubidium>sunny sunday? It's raining!
07:00-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
07:00<pavel1269>hi
07:04-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
07:04<@petern>it's sunny here
07:05<@petern>have been recovering strawberry plants
07:06<pavel1269>whats current status on 8bpp replacement project?
07:07<pavel1269>i see, one big package ... and that i cant use just lets say terran and no other :-/
07:07<@petern>opengfx?
07:07<pavel1269>y
07:07<@Rubidium>unfinished and dead in the water?
07:07<pavel1269>thats pitty
07:07<@petern>is opengfx dead?
07:07<pavel1269>terrain except water is nice, also some industries looked good
07:09<@Rubidium>petern: 22-1 last release, 4 sprites (1 vehicle) drawn since then
07:10-!-Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:10<@petern>crap
07:10<@petern>don't have enough memory rigssofrods with -j 8
07:11<@Rubidium>they're all working on FIRS or something else
07:11<pavel1269>whats FIRS?
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07:14<@Rubidium>some industry replacement stuff
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07:16<@petern>as they are free to do :D
07:16<@petern>pikka :D
07:16<Pikka>bonjour!
07:27<Alberth>what's the policy about adding methods to assist debugging? Are such methods welcome in trunk?
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07:52<@Rubidium>Alberth: guess that's a case-by-case decision
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07:57<@Belugas>[07:06] <@petern> have been recovering strawberry plants <--- booo... good fo you. our plants are still under a few cm of white (used to be white) stuff
08:03<@petern>still snow? :o
08:03<@Rubidium>guess so as it's still freezing in Quebec
08:04<@petern>evil
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08:36<@petern>hmm
08:37<@petern>'Select upgrades' appears to be selecting things which I do not have installed.
08:38<@Rubidium>different grfs with the same grfid?
08:39<@petern>hmm
08:39<eQualizer>I think I found a bug. There's a submarine on my airport.
08:41<Alberth>eQualizer: that happens without any NewGRF's loaded?
08:41<eQualizer>Yes
08:41<wision>probably just loading some passengers..
08:41<@Rubidium>and without any fancy patches applied?
08:41<eQualizer>I think I first saw that submarine yesterday, but it was cruising around in water.
08:41<eQualizer>And now it's landed. Under my airfield.
08:42<@petern>the disaster submarine :D
08:42<@Rubidium>are you sure it's a submarine?
08:42<eQualizer>0.7.0 beta2, nothing applied. Except AdmiralAI.
08:43<eQualizer>Oh, now it disappeared. :(
08:43<wision>sure.. fully loaded, it's heading to another stop
08:44<@Rubidium>eQualizer: what year are you in?
08:44<eQualizer>Amt 1994
08:44<eQualizer>atm*
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08:45<Alberth>eQualizer: assuming it is a plane, you can open your plane list, and check each of them
08:46<@Rubidium>eQualizer: can you make a screenshot?
08:46<eQualizer>It wasn't a plane. I found it when I destroid the airfield, and build bigger on top of it. The submarine didn't have any effect no destroying the airfield, or building a new one on top of it.
08:48<Alberth>eQualizer: you can try loading the last savegame
08:48<eQualizer>Got it
08:48<eQualizer>...on screenshot.
08:50<eQualizer>http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09110/openttd070beta2submarinebug809.png
08:51<@Rubidium>did you recently raise land there?
08:51<eQualizer>No. But AI might have.
08:51<eQualizer>But I couldn't say for sure by looking autosaves.
08:52<Gekz>Chinese characters!
08:52<Gekz>or Japanese.
08:52<@SmatZ>eQualizer: known for very long time
08:52<@SmatZ>most likely since TTD
08:52<eQualizer>Gekz: Japanese
08:53<@petern>probably not raised, with all the trees...
08:53<@petern>unless it was there a long time, heh
08:53<@SmatZ>petern: it could have been there for ages, unnoticed :)
08:53<Gekz>oh lol a submarine!
08:54<Gekz>I see it
08:54<Gekz>lol wtf
08:54<Gekz>so there is a submarine in TTD
08:54<Gekz>and it is now landed by some form of voodoo magic
08:55<@SmatZ>petern: ignore my last statement about "long living" submarines...
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10:00<[wito]>eQualizer: what font are you using?
10:01<eQualizer>osaka.dfont (I'm on Mac)
10:02<[wito]>ooh, it's nice
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10:04<eQualizer>Almost nice. I can't read smallest font. And some kanjis look a bit wrong on medium (I've found one where two different lines morphs into one).
10:06<+glx>did you change font size?
10:06<eQualizer>How do I do that?
10:06-!-stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:06<+glx>in openttd.cfg
10:06<eQualizer>Oh!
10:06<eQualizer>I totallhy missed those lines.
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10:12<[wito]>did we ever get that font interface?
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10:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15720 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Change: put a bit more information into the crash log
10:30<@petern>date of birth, blood type, credit card number?
10:32<@Rubidium>no, only credit card number and expiration date
10:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15721 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: -Change: give a more useful (for 'normal' users) error message when there's no AI and they want to play with an AI
10:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15722 /trunk/readme.txt: -Change: add a bit more information to the readme.
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10:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: "Ctrl makes much commands more powerful" <-- ...many commands...
10:36<planetmaker>They're countable.
10:36<@Rubidium>they are countable!
10:36<@Rubidium>;)
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10:37<planetmaker>hehe :)
10:37<insulfrog>hi
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10:51<@Rubidium>Alberth: do you have by any chance a diff with all hierarchical widget stuff in it? (so I don't have to download 15 or so diffs?)
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10:53<Alberth>Rubidium: I have a patch queue. You want the queue or everything in a single diff?
10:54<@Rubidium>a single diff would be fine at this moment
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11:01<Alberth>Rubidium: http://g.imagehost.org/download/0172/nested_widgets_src_r15719_patch just the src sub-dir (ie exclusive the document sources)
11:01<Alberth>Hmm, the .gz extension gets chopped off in the URL
11:02<Alberth>s/exclusive/excluding/
11:02<energetic>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImfkfZZga48
11:03<Alberth>it is quite messy due to the WindowDesc constructor change (03 patch)
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11:03*petern reads the pdf
11:08<Alberth>Rubidium: Interesting files: http://paste.openttd.org/180491
11:10<Alberth>petern: the pdf is a nice introduction
11:10<@Rubidium>going to cherry pick a bit from the big diff I reckon ;)
11:10<@petern>can this be done incrementally
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11:11<@petern>like the migrated to window classes was?
11:11<Alberth>that is the idea currently.
11:11<@Rubidium>petern: that's the idea
11:11<@petern>cool
11:11<+glx>where's the pdf?
11:11<Alberth>This introduces NestedWidget trees by extending the WindowDesc
11:11<Alberth>FS#1905
11:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15723 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use a constructor for WindowDescs as that makes expanding them much easier (Alberth)
11:13<Alberth>or here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42222
11:13<@SmatZ>hmm @ not using initialiser list
11:14<@SmatZ>why inheriting from ZeroedMemoryAllocator?
11:14<Alberth>everything nicely zeroed before init
11:14<@SmatZ>and then overwritten to valid values?
11:15<Alberth>yes (quite often 0 :) )
11:15<Alberth>oh, that's for nestedwidgets, not for WindowDesc. Sorry
11:15<@SmatZ>ah well, if it's future-proof :)
11:17<jpm>hi
11:17<Alberth>hi jpm
11:17*glx likes the idea :)
11:18<jpm>I got problem while checking out source code from svn://sv.openttd.org/trunk
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11:19<Alberth>you mean "svn.openttd.org"
11:19<jpm>I meant svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
11:19<jpm>Can't connect to host...
11:19<@Rubidium>jpm: works for me
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11:20<Alberth>jpm: for me too
11:20<jpm>hmm...
11:20<wision>jpm: for me too
11:20<[wito]>ditto
11:20<@SmatZ>works here
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11:21<[wito]>Might just be you, jpm
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11:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15724 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp): -Codechange: some widget documentation/fixing of enumified constant names (Alberth)
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11:23<Alberth>you're pulling that from #2732, don't you?
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11:23<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/nested.diff <- updated version of Alberth's diff
11:23<@Rubidium>2732? Not really
11:24<jpm>now its working on my linux box...
11:24<@Rubidium>I extracted it from 'the big diff'
11:24<jpm>but it did take long wait before started transfering files..
11:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15725 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Fix: centering on a vehicle didn't respect its z coordinate
11:25<jpm>Maybe thats why tortoise client timed out...
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11:27<Alberth>jpm: it is probably not waiting bu instead busy exchanging info about files to download. trunk is quite big the first time.
11:28<Alberth>s/bu/but/
11:28<jpm>But why Tortoise Client would close connection if its receiving some information
11:29<Alberth>no idea, I always use svn directly from the command line. Much easier to understand what happens.
11:44<jpm>tortoise client is useful when applying patches but it has weaknesses also...
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11:45<jpm>I downloaded binaries to use svn from command-line and got ottd source now.. thanks for help
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12:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15726 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify coding style for const pointers
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12:17<insulfrog>goota go
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12:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15727 /trunk/src/ (namegen.cpp saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp table/namegen.h):
12:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: apply coding style to namegen arrays
12:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r1307): missing comma in _name_original_english_4
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12:47<@petern>1307 :o
12:49*petern ponders the affect
12:50<@petern>massive
12:51<@petern>flentfingford is not flenfingford
12:51<@petern>bundworth is bunworth
12:51<@petern>overtfingford is overfingford
12:51<@petern>brendingstone is brendston
12:51<@petern>pinhill is now pinthill
12:52<@petern>invedwood is invewood
12:52<@petern>heh
12:52<@petern>pudingstone to pudstone
12:53<@petern>okay that's enough :p
12:57<Noldo>wwhat?
12:59<@SmatZ>petern: impressive
13:03<@petern>SmatZ, do you fancy applying code style to namegen too? ;)
13:05<@SmatZ>petern: I can try :)
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13:10<el_en>what²?
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13:26<wision>is it possible to control the output in the console of dedicated server? i'd liketo get rid of that "dbg: [net] [udp] queried from .." spam
13:28<@SmatZ>wision: bin/openttd -D -d 0 ... or so
13:28<@SmatZ>just set debug level for net to 0
13:29<Ammler>or 2>/dev/null
13:29<@petern>or 1
13:29<@petern>don't do that
13:30<@SmatZ>hehe
13:30<wision>thanks SmatZ
13:30<@SmatZ>you are welcome, wision
13:32<Ammler>petern: it is, but why?
13:32<@petern>"it is" ?
13:33<Ammler>we use also debug level 0 but why is pipe to null bad?
13:33<@petern>because then you won't see other messages
13:33<@petern>like crashes
13:33<@petern>or "server shutdown cos ammler requested me to do it, dihedral"
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13:35<Ammler>ok, obvious, thought something more hidden :-)
13:35<@petern>it should be a last resort thing
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13:36<wision>setting debug_level is good enough for me :)
13:37<@petern>be nice if it didn't spout that crap by default :o
13:37<taknil>Hello everyone Openttd-IRC newfag here
13:38<planetmaker>hi
13:40<taknil>I wanted to update my current stable 0.6.3 to the .7beta2 on my mac, but i can't recall how i installed it in the first place. Thought there was a wizzard with the stable but the beta is not, is it?
13:41<planetmaker>Just get the zip from the website and unpack it into a directory of your choice
13:42<planetmaker>This assumes that you have your base graphics (the one from TTD) in ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data
13:42<taknil>okay, thx, let me check that...
13:42<Alberth>best results are obtained when the directory is also accessible from the mac
13:43<planetmaker>Alberth: that's the one on Mac
13:43<planetmaker>the global one
13:43<@SmatZ>funny
13:43<planetmaker>I never created it, so OpenTTD creates it somewhat automatically :)
13:43-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:44<@SmatZ>OTTD hangs when "Many random towns" is used in SE with certain "Town name language" settings
13:44-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:44<@SmatZ>and nobody reported it so far...
13:44<@SmatZ>ah well, it doesn't hang :-p
13:44<@SmatZ>just takes very long time :)
13:44<planetmaker>People don't play with Ruhrpott - type maps :P
13:44<@SmatZ>:)
13:44*planetmaker thinks that SmatZ is a bit unpatient? ;)
13:45<@SmatZ>hehe :)
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13:46<@SmatZ>~40secs looks deadlocked for me ;)
13:46<@petern>impatient
13:47<planetmaker>he... feature: add progress bar or rotating thingy indicating "I'm working hard, just don't be hard on my now"
13:47<@SmatZ>ok :-D
13:47<@SmatZ>planetmaker: but then how do you distinguish endless loop? :)
13:48<planetmaker>:) Maybe determine how many loop iterations were needed, add a factor of 10 for safety and adopt progress bar accordingly
13:48<planetmaker>more frequently, more small-scale
13:48<planetmaker>But changing that is nasty, not very fruitful work, I think
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13:49<@SmatZ>second thread could be used for that, is with the Generating world progressbar, but it would be pain
13:50<planetmaker>yeah, something like that :). Yes, not fruitful, but painful :P
13:50<@SmatZ>:)
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13:53<Chrill>hallo
13:53<@SmatZ>hello Chrill
13:53<Chrill>I am trying to get TBRS compatible with TTRS roads, is this doable? Failed to find parameters
13:53<energetic>I have a calculation using only uint types, with division and multiplication. D I need to use a float type here, or can i fullfill the job with uints only? result should be a uint, too.
13:54<Chrill>Or any bridge set for that matter, compatible with TTRS roads??
13:54<planetmaker>energetic: add a constant factor (e.g. 2^8), do the calculation and then divide the result by 2^8 again, forgetting the final fractional digits
13:55<@SmatZ>energetic: it depends... for example on the range of numbers :) but if you can, do multiplications first, then divisions... but it really depends on the case (it can overflow and such)
13:55<planetmaker>Chrill: ttrs can be configured to not use its own bridges or to use them.
13:55<Chrill>I know, but in this case, it gives me the regular road markings on roads
13:55<energetic>http://pastebin.com/m130f082b
13:55<planetmaker>yep. You could use default bridges :P
13:55<Chrill>I'm using parameters 1 0 1 0 for TTRS
13:56<Chrill>I want to use the TBRS bridges with TTRS roads on it
13:56<Chrill>Is this doable? :P
13:56<planetmaker>afaik not without sprite editing
13:56<@SmatZ>energetic: " / 256" is much faster than "/ 257"
13:56<Chrill>is there any bridge set which can?
13:56<planetmaker>a bridge set must be made support a road type. The bridge road sprites must be included in the bridge set itself.
13:56<Chrill>Yes, I know
13:57<planetmaker>ok :) Sorry, I've no useful answer for you then :)
13:57<Chrill>Thanks anyway :)
13:57<planetmaker>yw
13:57<energetic>Smatz: the code _was_ 256+1, i think /257 is a tiny bit faster from that perspective ;)
13:58<@SmatZ>energetic: II would go with something liket1 = (totalamount * highest_rating * (best_rating1 + winner_bonus * 256)) / (sum_all_ratings + factor * 256);
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13:58<@SmatZ>if it does the same, I am a bit lost in all those parenthesis :)
13:59<energetic>definitely needs optimization, true. But getting it to work is step one.
13:59<@SmatZ>energetic: your compiler will change 256+1 to 257...
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14:00<@SmatZ>and it will probably change /257 to *some_big_number, shift_right
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14:02<energetic>thanks, this should be enough help
14:03<@SmatZ>but *256,/256 is changed to shifts, they are much faster :)
14:03<@SmatZ>you are welcome
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14:04<@petern>"much"
14:05<energetic>okay
14:05<@SmatZ>significantly?
14:05<@petern>depends on the cpu
14:05<energetic>I wonder why I need to use UINT on my own c++ code, and ottd using uint
14:05<@SmatZ>true :)
14:06<yorick>it's C, not C++!
14:06<@petern>uint is non standard
14:06<@petern>"unsigned int" is the correct form
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14:07<@SmatZ>or just "unsigned" ;)
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14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15728 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-15 18:52:21
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 7 fixed, 6 changed by SmatZ (13)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed by MiR (4)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 3 fixed by planetmaker (3)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by alyr (2)
14:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 fixed by fanioz (2)
14:54<@petern>hmm
14:54*petern seems to have better ship performance with npf than original
14:54<@petern>110% with original (somehow)
14:54*SmatZ experienced the same
14:55<@petern>and 40-70%
14:55<@petern>with npf
14:55<energetic>why does t1 = (uint)((float)(totalamount / num_winners) * (float)(highest_rating/257)); gives t1=0?
14:56<energetic>totalamount=10, num winners=1, highest rating say 170
14:56<@SmatZ>because (totalamount / num_winners) == 0
14:56<@SmatZ>hmm
14:56<wision>(highest_rating/257) == 0 ?
14:56<@SmatZ>170/257 == 0 then ;)
14:56<wision>you need to cast highest_rating
14:56<energetic>:P
14:57<wision>or 257..
14:58<planetmaker>energetic: if typeof(totalamount) = typeof(num_winners) = int, then the first division may already be zero
14:58<planetmaker>you only cast to float after the division is done
14:58<@petern>my chugging game with ~100 ships is running happily on npf
14:59<@Rubidium>petern: 10% spent for sound and (auto)saving?
14:59<energetic>sorry: they are all uint
14:59<@petern>is sound threaded now?
14:59<planetmaker>energetic: my point
15:00<planetmaker>you need to cast each - or at least the irst
15:00<planetmaker>*first
15:00<energetic>did that, works now
15:00<planetmaker>hehe :)
15:00<@petern>so why is original recommended instead of npf?
15:00<@petern>and if npf is 'ideal' why can't yapf cope?
15:01<@Rubidium>petern: petern alsa makes a thread
15:02<energetic>(for interested people: I am working on the NewCompetition patch --> http://ottd.timohummel.com/wiki/index.php/NewCompetition)
15:04<@petern>hmm, gone back up, but not slow
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15:08<Ammler>energetic: patch?
15:09<energetic>yes?
15:09<energetic>youmean you want to see ode?
15:09<energetic>*code*
15:10<Ammler>well, not really, I liked to join your server to see how it works :-)
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15:11<energetic>later, first have to fix some weird behaviour in the code
15:11<energetic>but i will update the page later on tonite
15:11<energetic>and setup a server
15:11<energetic>so anyone can test
15:11<Ammler>http://ottd.timohummel.com/wiki/index.php/NewCompetitionTesting <-- here
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15:12<Ammler>you should tell erik, openttd is a transport game, not industry game.
15:12<@SmatZ>replace openttd.exe with this version: [link to virus.exe]
15:14<Ammler>energetic: if you "fear" traffic on your server, use tt-forums for...
15:15<yorick>SmatZ: and then need require a new language file :p
15:15<yorick>require*
15:15*Rubidium roflol about #3
15:15<@SmatZ>hehehe
15:16<@petern>#3?
15:17<@petern>oh
15:17<@petern>lol
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15:37<batti5>Hi, i have a HP nx7010 latop bios problem, whare can i find some help?, google-ed the problem but no results
15:37<yorick>certainly not here
15:37<yorick>try freenode
15:38<@SmatZ>[20:37:40] <yorick> certainly not here <=== hehe
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16:15<@petern>hmm, jaaa shows noise at ~ 44.1 kHZ
16:15<@petern>er, KHz
16:15<@petern>wonder if that's really there or just cos that's the original sample rate...
16:15<planetmaker>kHz :P
16:20<@petern>K or k doesn't matter, but z does ;)
16:21<@petern>hmm
16:23<planetmaker>SI is k afaik
16:23<@petern>*nod*
16:24<planetmaker>but things only get funny, if people mix up m and M :D
16:24<@SmatZ>KiHz is IEC 80000-13:2008
16:24<@petern>:D
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16:25<@SmatZ>@calc 44100 / 1024
16:25<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 43.06640625
16:25<+glx>planetmaker: b and B are quite common too
16:25<@SmatZ>43,066 KiHz
16:25<planetmaker>indeed.
16:25<@petern>what prefix is b/B ?
16:25<planetmaker>byte vs bit
16:26<@petern>that's not a prefix
16:26<planetmaker>rather the other way around
16:26<+glx>it's a unit
16:26<el_en>petern: KelvinHertz
16:26<planetmaker>yup
16:26<@petern>i dunno, computer geeks :o
16:26<@SmatZ>:o)
16:26<+glx>but using wrong prefix with wrong unit leads to funny results ;)
16:26<planetmaker>el_en: true. But I never encountered that :P
16:27-!-trainmaster [~trainmast@ip5455da72.speed.planet.nl] has quit []
16:27<planetmaker>My favourite unit of measure for distances is still Giga-Angstroem.
16:27-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:27<@Rubidium>how many mm is that?
16:27<planetmaker>100
16:28<planetmaker>quite handy, though it doesn't sound like on first glance :)
16:29<@SmatZ>that's so non-SI!
16:29<planetmaker>yup
16:30<@SmatZ>how can a physic live in non-SI world?
16:30<planetmaker>but better than something like eV / square yard and fortnight ;)
16:30<planetmaker>but back then it served the purpose to have ... = 42 :P
16:30<@SmatZ>do you convert electricity on your bills to MeV? ;-)
16:31<@Rubidium>SmatZ: psychic! ;)
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16:31<@SmatZ>Rubidium: makes sense :)
16:31<planetmaker>SmatZ: depends :) Sometimes SI units are just not... handy :)
16:31<planetmaker>But inches, yards and miles are never required :P
16:31<@SmatZ>:o)
16:31<planetmaker>nor pounds
16:31<planetmaker>;)
16:32<planetmaker>Rubidium: that may be a matter of debate :P
16:32<@petern>my bank account quite likes pounds
16:32<planetmaker>hehe ^^
16:32<energetic>#3 indeed needs editing :P
16:35<@petern>bah
16:35<@petern>**** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 1237026280046.592 msecs
16:35<@petern>i think that's lying some how
16:36<@petern>39 year overrun? heh
16:40<planetmaker>lol
16:40<planetmaker>would be interesting when the first also version appeared
16:42<frosch123>"yes - people do care about origveh.lng. Before I started this topic there were 99 downloads of origveh.grf from BaNaNaS." <- lol
16:44<planetmaker>he's missing the download all button :P
16:45<Ammler>is it possible to add static newgrfs over gui now?
16:45<frosch123>it had already lots of downloads before it hit the nightly, not to mention the two downloads before the old language was actually removed :)
16:45<frosch123>Ammler: sure, if you volunteer to explain the difference to every user
16:46<@petern>sirkoz is a funny chap
16:46<Ammler>long time ago since I used static grfs
16:46<@Rubidium>s/funny/annoying/ ?
16:46<Ammler>(as staic)
16:46<@petern>funny as in odd
16:47<+glx>well it's SirkoZ
16:52<Ammler>does openttd needs to load the newgrf to determine it is static?
16:52<@petern>no
16:52<@petern>you tell it it's static
16:53<@petern>openttd tests if it is suitable
16:53<Ammler>I pasted the whole cfg template of our pack and started openttd, the grfs which are there after exit are static
16:54<@petern>no
16:54<@petern>the non-static *safe* grfs are removed
16:54<Ammler>so there are "unsafe" grfs :-/
16:54<Ammler>like?
16:54<@petern>...
16:55<@petern>most GRFs are unsuitable for use as a static GRF
16:56<@petern>but this system has been in place for a long time
16:56<planetmaker>static trainset :P
16:56<Ammler>welll, like opengfx
16:56<planetmaker>you play with ukrs? I don't care, I override it with dbxl :)
16:56<planetmaker>:D
16:59<Ammler>member complained about us adding static grfs to the server :-)
16:59<@petern>don't do that
16:59<Ammler>well, the issue is, some need to be overriden by non-static grfs
17:00<@petern>...
17:00<@petern>sounds to me
17:00<@petern>like you are still confusing yourself
17:00<@petern>a 'static grf' is one that is listed in static newgrf section of the config file
17:00<Ammler>hmm
17:01<Ammler>which will be loaded _after_ newgrfs, afaik.
17:01<@petern>yes
17:01<@petern>however, if you have not put anything in the static newgrf section, then you do not have any static grfs loaded
17:02<Ammler>hmm, can't remember the example
17:02*energetic cheers because his first itty bitty C(++) steps created a working patch
17:02<planetmaker>I think the point of the complaint back then was that I added e.g a grf which replaces signal graphics.
17:02<Ammler>maybe it was with dtuch catenary
17:03<planetmaker>Has no other value than looks. But back then - that grf overrode the static grf settings of another person - which he didn't like a bit.
17:03<planetmaker>that, too.
17:03-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
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17:03<@petern>le sigh
17:03<@petern>you just don't get it
17:03<Ammler>planetmaker: the static will be loaded after
17:03<planetmaker>yeah :)
17:03<Ammler>so it would override your signals
17:03<planetmaker>That's what I understood.
17:04<planetmaker>and I think his problem was: he didn't have static those which he liked :P
17:05<Ammler>yeah, someone should make newgrfs of the original grfs
17:05<Ammler>lol
17:05<planetmaker>oh, another task for "someone" :P
17:06<@Bjarni>I'm sorry, but "someone" is already busy coding signals in tunnels and bridges
17:07<planetmaker>but would solve those issues. One then could easily say "If you don't like the looks, add <grfname> to your static list - or go with what was configured."
17:07<planetmaker>Bjarni: he should speed up.
17:07<planetmaker>he just got another task :)
17:07<@Bjarni>on top of all the other tasks for "someone". Expect that he will not get time for this task until 2037
17:07<Ammler>oh :-( , I hoped he codes cbh
17:07<planetmaker>But maybe he can just make a de-tour and prepare those grfs first?
17:07<planetmaker>:D
17:08<Ammler>well, it does indeed not make sense adding opengfx bar as newgrf ;-)
17:08-!-lolman [~lolman@87.102.80.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:09<@petern>opengfx being a base graphics set now, so it makes no difference
17:09<planetmaker>It made back then :)
17:10<Ammler>petern: don't like opengfx as a whole set.
17:10-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:10<Ammler>i.e. the toolbar
17:10<@petern>doesn't matter on a server :p
17:10<planetmaker>the toolbar is less clear :)
17:10<@Rubidium>Ammler: how can you say that, it's not even a "whole" set
17:11<Ammler>those are zoomed 32bpp graphics afaik.
17:11<planetmaker>he, yeah :(
17:11<planetmaker>"someone" should finish OpenGFX...
17:11<Ammler>:P
17:11-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c3e1e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:11<Ammler>"someone" finished opengfx
17:12<planetmaker>in 2017?
17:12<Ammler>but painted nude girls to some houses and engines, so foobar had to zensor them
17:12<Ammler>c
17:12<Ammler>might be George ;-)
17:13<planetmaker>gah... those political correctness police ;)
17:13<Ammler>I thought the censored version of 4LV was that style
17:13<@petern>was what style?
17:13<Ammler>the buses with black boxes
17:13<@petern>ah, no
17:14<@petern>they're fully complete buses
17:14<Ammler>yeah, I realized that...
17:14<Ammler>but his preview told something else.
17:14<@petern>the link on the website is black boxes though, iirc
17:14<@petern>hehe :)
17:14<Ammler>yeah.
17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15729 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: silence MSVC warning
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17:19<energetic>in openttd code, does performance has prio over readability?
17:19-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
17:20<Yexo>hello
17:20-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:20-!-Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
17:20<planetmaker>hello yexo
17:21<Yexo>hi planetmaker
17:21-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
17:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15730 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r15727): regression wasn't updated.
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17:26<@petern>technically smatz broke savegame compatibility :p
17:27<@Rubidium>or fixed it, depending on how you look at it
17:27<@petern>*nod*
17:27<@Rubidium>odd Tron didn't explode 'back then'
17:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15731 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: unify submarine creation
17:32<planetmaker>long time no seen the sub.
17:33<planetmaker>Are there any conditions as to when or where (water obviously, but..) it shows up?
17:34<Ammler>disasters on, afaik
17:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15732 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: enumified constant name style
17:35<planetmaker>that might be true. Maybe I should play with disasters again :)
17:35<Ammler>well, we could enable it on the ps.
17:36<Ammler>you need ships too, I guess.
17:36<planetmaker>:) My thought. Sneekily just enabile it via private chat with the PS :P
17:36<planetmaker>like !rcon nuke tile #000A13 ;)
17:37<planetmaker>now that would be the evil admins joy, those commands from hell :)
17:38*petern ponders disasters and breakdowns on on his next game
17:38<Ammler>a nice idea was, to send the plane to bomp ugly parts
17:38<planetmaker>:)
17:38<Ammler>instead of the ufo
17:38-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@glasnost.us] has joined #openttd
17:39<planetmaker>well. I don't mind sending aliens to outsource that ugly job.
17:39<planetmaker>having an ufo land there and self-destruct would be alright, too IMO :P
17:40<Ammler>if you see a signal gap, just !rcon send_ufo 0x0000
17:40<planetmaker>hehe :)
17:40-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@glasnost.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:40<planetmaker>I could have nuked a dozen places in the last game then.
17:40<planetmaker>worst were 20 tiles ML w/o signal
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17:41<+glx>[22:19:20] <energetic> in openttd code, does performance has prio over readability? <-- both
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17:49<@petern>nini
17:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15733 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Enabling freeform edges could cause submarines to get stuck on land tiles.
17:50<planetmaker>:D
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17:52<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:53<planetmaker>hello Nachteule ;)
17:53<Nite_Owl>Hello planetmaker - guessing that that id German for Nite_Owl
17:53<Nite_Owl>*is
17:54<planetmaker>:) At least it's my try in translation :)
17:54<planetmaker>though most owls are active at night - it's nearly an oxymoron(?) :)
17:54<planetmaker>or can you tell me more about owls?
17:56<Nite_Owl>Most are active at night but the nickname refers to the fact that I worked a 3rd shift (12 AM to 8 AM) for over 20 years
17:56<planetmaker>uhu... bad time to work, if you ask me...
17:57<planetmaker>and you stuck with the habbit of those waking times, I guess?
17:58<Nite_Owl>I liked it - yes, given a choice I will still default to late night living
17:58<planetmaker>he :)
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18:06*Vikthor wonders where the informations about Newgrf displayed on servers.openttd.org page do come from.
18:07-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07<@Rubidium>the servers
18:08<@Rubidium>which get it from... the NewGRFs
18:08<Vikthor>And what are the causes for the NewGRF to be listed as Not yet known?
18:08<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=773314#p773314 <-- hehe :)
18:08<planetmaker>nice reply, petern :)
18:08<@Rubidium>UDP
18:10<Vikthor>UDP? As in that somethings blocks traffic between server and master server?
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18:10<ITSBTH>!password
18:10-!-ITSBTH was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
18:11<@Rubidium>Vikthor: yes
18:11<@Rubidium>and the updater apparantly not being very good in retrying ;)
18:11<@Rubidium>I think it tries like two times per 'session'
18:12<Vikthor>So, I would have to restart the server, for the updater to retry?
18:13<@Rubidium>no, the updater needs to be restarted ;)
18:13<@Rubidium>which rarely happens
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15734 /branches/0.7/: [0.7] -Branch: the long awaited branch so we can introduce new features in trunk before 0.7.0, but not let them destabalize the pending release :)
18:15<Sacro>:o
18:15<Vikthor>aha, and when does he learns that GRF ID xx is GRF yy, is this information stored and used subsequently or does it download all information about grf again?
18:15*Sacro removes his hat and lowers his head
18:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15735 /trunk/src/ (ottdres.rc.in rev.cpp.in): -Update: trunk ain't going to 0.7 anymore ;)
18:16<Vikthor>ha, spring is coming, new branches are sprouting :)
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18:16<planetmaker>nice :)
18:17<@SmatZ>DaleStan couldn't handle branching 0.7 :-(
18:17<planetmaker>uh?
18:17<planetmaker>how do you mean, SmatZ ?
18:18<@SmatZ>planetmaker: nothing, another failed try to be funny :-p
18:18<@Rubidium>SmatZ: :D :D
18:18<@SmatZ>:-)
18:18<planetmaker>eh :)
18:18*planetmaker hugs SmatZ :)
18:18<@SmatZ>:-)
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18:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15736 /trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: Split AIScanner/AIFileInfo to the more generic classes ScriptScanner/ScriptFileInfo.
18:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15737 /branches/0.7/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [0.7] -Prepare: for 0.7.0-RC1.
18:46<@Rubidium>why can't I join 0.7.0-RC1 servers yet :(
18:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15738 /tags/0.7.0-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.0-RC1
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19:05<planetmaker>wuuh. we got an offical release candidate :)
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19:53<MrFrans>Nice
19:58<Ammler>:-o
19:58<Ammler>that fast, so still no independent release... :-(
20:02<Ammler>well, we can still hope for the sub versions :-)
20:03<@Rubidium>extrapolating the last 50 days of OpenGFX work would suggest many many months before it'll be finished
20:03<@Rubidium>even then there's no sound/music
20:04<Ammler>true :-(
20:12-!-nicfer [~nicfer@168.226.104.218] has joined #openttd
20:12<nicfer>hi
20:14<nicfer>I'm trying now to put my openttd beta in my arch linux under the usr folder and I'm having some troubles
20:17<nicfer>when I start it under that folder, the game throws the error:
20:17<nicfer>openttd: symbol lookup error: openttd: undefined symbol: ubidi_openSized_3_8
20:19<@SmatZ>nicfer: already suggested
20:19<nicfer>it's an error, not a suggestion
20:19<@SmatZ>glx: ^^^ here is your icu 3.8 ;)
20:19<@SmatZ>nicfer: suggestion is to upgrade compile farm'slibraries
20:20<nicfer>hehe, I just had to symbolic link link some libraries
20:20<nicfer>link link -> link
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20:22<Ammler>you are lucky, I need around 10 links
20:23<nicfer>I've needed only to link just three
20:23<Ammler>well, opensuse is like debian unstable or however that is called.
20:25*Rubidium wonders why they chose to not make their libs backward compatible
20:25<Ammler>me is wondering that linux isn't able to "autolink" :-)
20:25<@Rubidium>Ammler: it's perfectly able to do... but...
20:26<Ammler>does debian "unstable" that?
20:26<@Rubidium>when the library renames their functions there's hardly anything your linker can do about it
20:27<@SmatZ>if the binary linked to libicui18n.so instead of libicui18n.so.38 or libicui18n.so.38.1 ...
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20:27<Ammler>Rubidium: ever tried to use the libs without version numbers?
20:27<TinoDidriksen>ICU can be compiled in a neutral way that names functions without version suffix, but it is not recommended since sometimes behavior changes between versions.
20:27<@Rubidium>i.e. renames their function from "foo" to "bar" (or in this case foo_38 to foo_40)
20:27<Ammler>well, what SmatZ suggested...
20:28<@Rubidium>TinoDidriksen: then the distros need to do that too, which apparantly they don't
20:28<Ammler>at least opensuse does symlink to lib without number
20:28<@Rubidium>Ammler: symlinking won't solve it
20:29<Ammler>that is what I do to have nighly builds running
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20:48<nicfer>so, what's the solution?
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20:52<+glx>nicfer: compile yourself
20:59<Ammler>nicfer: doesn't symlinking work for you?
21:00<Ammler>or installing the old lib
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22:51<nicfer>I've got an idea that could be an alternative to transfer orders, in certain ways
22:51<nicfer>it's about a special station that also works as an industry that receives cargo
22:52<nicfer>it would be quite exposed to abuse
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 16 00:00:53 2009