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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-17

---Logopened Tue Mar 17 00:00:55 2009
00:01<racetrack>haha. I screwed up and my trains crashed. a couple of months later I get a popup "train is very old and needs replacing".
00:01<racetrack>which I suppose is technically true
00:01<racetrack>it was very old
00:01<racetrack>and it does need replacing
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02:20<Forked>coffee good.
02:22<goodger>non-coffee also bad
02:22<goodger>*good
02:23<goodger>sorry, lack of coffee
02:23<goodger>to clarify, non-coffee also good
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03:46<@petern>:D
03:47<goodger>D:
03:47<Forked>need..more..coffeee
03:48*goodger is going to try and locate a bulk source of relentless
03:50-!-dyzdyz [~dyzdyz@193.189.116.2] has joined #openttd
03:50<dyzdyz>hi all
03:54-!-Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work
03:57<dih>i need a good and reasonable colocation hoster
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04:08<dyzdyz>do i need files from "data" folder for compiling ottd?
04:08<dyzdyz>or just for playing?
04:08<Forked>just for playing
04:09<dyzdyz>thx
04:09<dyzdyz>and what about files from "lang" folder
04:09<dyzdyz>?
04:09<Noldo>what are you trying to do?
04:10<dyzdyz>i'm compiling ottd in msvs9
04:10<dyzdyz>and when i compiled lataest rev, just added lang files from latest nightly
04:10<dyzdyz>but now i'm compiling older rev
04:11<dyzdyz>and i'm not sure where to get lang files
04:11<Noldo>where did you get the source?
04:11<Ammler>lang files are in trunk
04:11<dih>if you grab the source, the source of the lang files are there already
04:11<dih>and will be compiled
04:11<dyzdyz>Noldo: svn
04:11<Ammler>:-)
04:11<dih>then have a look in src/lang/ ;-)
04:11<Ammler>morning
04:11<dih>hi
04:12<Noldo>dih: are you working on something ottd related nowadays?
04:12<dyzdyz>dih: so what files i have to copy manually after compiling?
04:13<dih>Noldo: ottd related or ottd?
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04:13<dih>dyzdyz, after compiling != for compiling!
04:14<dyzdyz>i mean after
04:14<dih>to play?
04:14<dyzdyz>yes
04:14<dih>the data files as described in the readme.txt file
04:14<Noldo>dih: to which ever the answer is 'yes'
04:14<dih>mainly openttd related
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04:15<Noldo>autopilot stuff?
04:15<dih>yep
04:19<@petern>you don't need to copy anything
04:19<@petern>just hit run
04:20<dih>hit & run?
04:20<@petern>quite
04:20<dih>Noldo, http://trac.openttdcoop.org/milestone/Avignon%200.1
04:26<dyzdyz>hmmm, my lang files just did not compile...
04:27<dih>so there is just an empty bin/lang/ folder?
04:28<dyzdyz>yes :-)
04:28<@petern>so find out why
04:29<dyzdyz>i will
04:29<dih>but there is an openttd executable in bin/?
04:30<dih>why not paste your compile output to paste.openttd.org?
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04:31<dyzdyz>ok, my mistake
04:32<dyzdyz>the *.exe apperas not in bin folder
04:32<dyzdyz>but in objs/Win32/Release
04:33<dyzdyz>when i copied it into bin folder works almost fine :-)
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04:38<dyzdyz>is it possible that because of not having copypaste.grf when compilig (just added it into data folder later) the fuction doesn't work?
04:39<dyzdyz>does GRFs influent on compiling?
04:39<Noldo>no
04:40<dyzdyz>hmmm
04:40<dih>dyzdyz, why dont you read up on what the copypaste.grf is for?
04:40<dih>and then wonder if you really need to ask that kind of question ^^
04:40<dyzdyz>i did :-)
04:40<dih>yes, my system cannot copy files from a/ to b/ because i am missing a game extention file
04:40<dyzdyz>but i have no more ideas :-/
04:41<dih>makes sense
04:41<dih>please please, just paste your compiler output to paste.openttd.org
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04:42<dyzdyz>http://paste.openttd.org/180566
04:43<dih>oh - you are not even using ./configure and Makefile ??
04:44<dyzdyz>i'm not
04:44<dyzdyz>i used this instruction: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
04:48<dyzdyz>i downloaded and patched the source using tortoiseSVN, the patch matches rev, followe dinstructions from wiki, got build without errors, copiet data folder, including copypaste.grf...
04:50<dyzdyz>sorry for misspellings
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05:07<@Darkvater>bleh, disc
05:10<@petern>hurr hurr hurr
05:12*dih waves hello to DarkSSHClone
05:12<dih>aahahhh
05:12<dih>Darkvater,
05:12<dih>there
05:12<dih>:-P
05:15<@Darkvater>hmm
05:15*DASPRiD is pretty round
05:16<@Darkvater>gaah, huge laaag
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05:16<DASPRiD>lol
05:17<@petern>hmm, still only 8 companies
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05:23<SpComb>Darkvater: it's much more stylish to kill off your own clones using NickServ
05:23<dih>^^
05:23<@petern>ARGH FUCKING SHIT
05:24<@petern>thunderbird is really pissing me off
05:24<@petern>what's a good imap client for windows?
05:24<dih>....
05:24<dih>thunderbird? :-P
05:24<@petern>no
05:24<dih>what's the issue?
05:24<@petern>it's shit
05:25<@petern>it's deleting behaviour leaves a lot to be desired
05:25<@petern>and then it locks up
05:26<@Darkvater>tb was er slow when I used ti
05:26<@Darkvater>so back to outlook :)
05:27<@petern>there's no way to expunge a mailbox without installing a plugin
05:27<@petern>and then it takes AGES to do it
05:27*petern tries mulberry
05:28<dih>telnet ^^
05:28<@petern>nah
05:28<@petern>talking imap is not fun
05:30<dih>roundcube.net
05:31<@petern>i'm not using webmail
05:31<racetrack>petern: "file->compact folders"
05:31<racetrack>iirc
05:32<racetrack>that issues EXPUNGE
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05:34<@petern>bah, mulberry's shit too
05:35<dih>petern: #thunderbird
05:35<dih>:-D
05:35<@petern>i like evolution
05:35<@petern>but the windows version sucks
05:36*petern ponders forking evolution and calling it 'creationism'
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05:51*petern grumbles at software that requires annual licensing
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07:45<Forked>racetrack: sent you an answer.. but when fiddling around shortly after the save I sent you I managed to crash the game too.. will see if I can reproduce
07:46<racetrack>Forked: ahh, didn't see you in here. thanks for that
07:46<racetrack>fixed my crasher too
07:46<Forked>racetrack: seeing some strange behaviour when stopping and reversing the train while it's in a DTD. Using the diff and rev mentioned in my pm
07:47<Forked>right now I have the same train thats in the save standing perfectly still while invisible .. heading for a depot at (it claims) 201km/h
07:49<racetrack>awesome, again not realising its in the depot
07:49<racetrack>gimme a sec, I'll commit/stash what I'm in the middle of and then rebuild for your rev
07:50<Forked>I don't have much time to help right now, suppose to be working :) (but I end up being hardly working :p)
07:50<racetrack>haha thats ok, I gtg to bed shortly anyway
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07:51<Rubidium>we can easily exempt you from that requirement ;)
07:51<racetrack>cool then, I'll tackle it on the bus in the morning. you've got seven hours to fill up my inbox with whatever tests and another crap you can :)
07:51<racetrack>Rubidium: pretty wife trumps your exemption, sorry ;)
07:52<Forked>racetrack: if you have a new diff I can test a bit more later
07:53<Forked>visually that was pretty cool.. had two wagons mergo into each other and then totally dissapair in a depot :p not sure how I did it
07:53<racetrack>maybe. what I have isn't really suitable for consumption, but I'll look back a few revs to see if I have one that's a little more solid
07:53<racetrack>haha
07:53<Forked>two trains stuck in there somewhere.. :)
07:53<racetrack>if they're coming in from opposite sides they won't collide
07:54<racetrack>the overlap looks really weird
07:54<Forked>no rush, once things are ready and if I have time.. I can try and mess things up a bit :)
07:54<racetrack>so much so that I'm considering only allowing one to enter at a time and making the other stop at a fake signal. just to make it look nice :P
07:58<@petern>moo
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08:08<racetrack>Forked: http://cataclysm.cx/random/openttd/drive-through-depots.r15750.diff
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08:09<racetrack>thats latest latest, with my barely-tested signalling stuff in
08:09<racetrack>which isn't at all right yet, along the lines of my forum post
08:09<racetrack>(ie checking the block on the wrong side before leaving)
08:09<racetrack>but if you just play with single trains you should be fine
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08:22<@petern>hmm, i can't see how to do this mapping thing without an 'object' :o
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15751 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.cpp string.cpp string_func.h):
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [MSU] -Fix: compilation
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [MSU] -Backport: improvement of string helper functions
08:26<@petern>hm
08:30<@petern>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/railtypemap3.diff (compiled, untested)
08:31<@petern>gah, stupid web server
08:32<dih>petern, if you want it tested, best hint i could give would be ask the openttdguys to run it on their dev game ;-)
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08:34<Rubidium>dih: it's not like their test of that diff will be very useful
08:34<@petern>indeed it won't
08:34<@petern>anyway
08:34<Rubidium>especially as in their case half of the diff isn't even triggered
08:35<@petern>to avoid calling Sl(Read|Write)Byte() directly seems i have to go through hoops
08:35<dih>oh that's a bummer
08:35<@petern>(compare with railtypemap2.diff)
08:37<Rubidium>the other solution is SLEG but that also introduces a global variable
08:38<@petern>indeed
08:41<@petern>somebody didn't like Sl(Read|Write)Byte(), can't remmeber who :o
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09:08<Forked>woho. I have the invisible train
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09:17<@petern>Rubidium, what's your opinion?
09:17<@petern>SLE, SLEG, or SlR/WByte?
09:20<Rubidium>should I have one?
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09:21<@petern>insert implicit "if you have one" :p
09:21<Rubidium>and any reason why it shouldn't be similar to the house/industry/vehicle override stuf?
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09:25<dih>http://paste.openttd.org/180577 <- let servers mention the client id of the joined client in the join message
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09:26<dih>this is useful if the admin needs to act quickly and saves him from possibly having to go through a long clients list finding the ip
09:26<dih>the id, sorry
09:30<dih>Rubidium, ^
09:31<dih>or would you prefer a fs entry? :-P
09:31<dih>s/ a / an /
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09:39<DASPRiD>dih, you should not talk to yourself in #ottdcoop :P
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10:03<dih>DASPRiD, perhaps you did not get what that was about ;-)
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10:25<fonsinchen>I frequently get the following problem: I want to initialize some values when loading or starting a game, but I don't want to save them as they can be computed from other values. I don't quite know how to do that properly. Of course I can wait until the first function using the respective data is called and then see if it's initialized and act accordingly. But that's ugly. Is there a better solution?
10:26<@petern>there's a whole set of stuff done after load
10:26<@petern>in, er, saveload/afterload
10:26<Forked>such hostility on the forum :\
10:27<@petern>i might just slip and click on the X for his posts
10:27<Rubidium>"I wanted to report it"
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10:27<fonsinchen>Oh, nice. Thanks. I assume this is also called when starting a new game?
10:30<@SmatZ>AfterLoadGame is called after loading a game
10:30<Rubidium>InitialiseGame ;)
10:30<Rubidium>that one's called for both new and loaded games
10:30<@SmatZ>have a look at InitilizeGame or so :)
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10:37<fonsinchen>ok, thanks
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11:46<[wito]>Sacro: Woop
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12:06<Sacro>[wito]: yeah?
12:07<[wito]>I was under the impression that the server was paused when noone was connected
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12:09<[wito]>because, err
12:09<[wito]>it wasn't. :P
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12:11<Sacro>gege
12:12<Sacro>*hehe
12:12-!-Yexo is now known as Guest475
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12:12<[wito]>so
12:12<[wito]>you might want to log in real quick and clean up your network
12:12<[wito]>there's quite a few congestion points where coal mines have ceased to be
12:13<@petern>ah, sacro's network :p
12:13<@petern>he's good at congestion points
12:13<Sacro>oh yes
12:13<Sacro>I need to fix that
12:14<Sacro>petern: i had a rather efficient snazzy junction
12:14<Sacro>4 track line to 5 plat terminus
12:15<Sacro>hmm
12:15<Sacro>let me snag the OSX binary
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12:21<@petern>pah, OSX
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12:26<pavel1269>hi
12:26<dih>osx rox
12:26<dih>^^
12:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15752 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix: don't try to (un)draw the cursor when the screen is not ready
12:28<Rubidium>dih: and the way that osx rox is shown by the fact that no-one has fixed the OSX specific bugs nor implemented the missing automatic font selection
12:30<dih>Rubidium, rocks are hard ^^
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12:44<el_en>B!
12:45<@Bjarni>e!
12:46<@Bjarni>nice. The document I was promised to get at least 45 minutes ago have yet to arrive
12:46<yorick>!inrajB
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12:48<@Bjarni>yorick: looks like you have a 64 bit endian issue
12:48<yorick>me?
12:48<yorick>yes
12:48<@Bjarni>yorick: does this look correct to you?
12:48<el_en>not you, the other yorick
12:48<@Bjarni>876543219
12:49<batti5>Romanian Train Set 0.2 is relased.
12:49<@Bjarni>yeah, that yorick --->
12:49<yorick>that says 437294218?
12:49<yorick>batti5: released*
12:50<@Bjarni>At one time I was named "rajBin" in multiplayer games. That's how we figured that we need to do some serious endian fixing in the network code
12:51<batti5><yorick> Thanks
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12:51<el_en>Bjarni: probably saved you from guantánamo, too.
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12:54<@Bjarni>?
12:54<@Bjarni>what's nauganátom?
12:55<el_en>wtf, you haven't even heard of guantánamo?
12:55<+glx>isn't it supposed to be closed now?
12:55<el_en>have you followed the news during the past 8 years?
12:55<el_en>glx: not yet, but soon.
12:56<el_en>or did they already manage to close it this quickly?
12:57<@Bjarni>they postponed closing it for one year
12:57<@Bjarni>they figured that they couldn't handle it as quickly as they presumed
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13:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15753 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15702)[FS#2742]: Crash when clicking the small area between the savegame list and the save button in the save game window.
13:19<taisteluorava>heh, nice fix
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13:21<Yexo>actually it's more a hack, but this makes it easy to backport
13:21<taisteluorava>btw there is bug when you use bigger font which goes over "fontbox", it draw those letters in screen
13:22<Yexo>if RC1 hadn't been released yet I'd have rewritten nearly all code that handles that window, to document the widgets
13:22<Yexo>do you have an example of such a font?
13:22<taisteluorava>when you set medium_size font over 12 youl's see it easily when moving any windows
13:22<taisteluorava>"window
13:23<taisteluorava>i can upload a screenshot, it tells more than 100 word
13:25<Yexo>not needed, I've seen the problem already
13:26<Yexo>but this won't be fixed untill Albert's oop widgets hit trunk
13:26<taisteluorava>kk
13:27<taisteluorava>but it happens only when text is too "long" to box
13:27<taisteluorava>yeah, u know
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13:27<@petern>the gui is not scalable
13:28<@petern>so it's not a bug, but expected behaviour
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13:28<taisteluorava>yeah, not big deal anyways
13:29<@Belugas>cpp_gui is the answer to all those problems
13:29<Yexo>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1905 will solve a quite a few
13:32<el_en>what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada?
13:33<@Belugas>hehehe
13:33<@Belugas>i think Bjarni would know better ;)
13:36<@petern>i though cpp_gui was dead?
13:36<@petern>or is nestedwidgets an evolution?
13:36<Rubidium>cpp_gui is dead for a long time
13:37<Rubidium>say two years
13:38<@Belugas>not sure if estedwidgets is the nest step, but at least it's alive :)
13:38<@Belugas>+n
13:38*Belugas shacks his defective keyboard
13:39<@Belugas>and no, i don't REALLY think cpp_gui wold have solved it
13:39<@Belugas>not in that form, anyway
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13:49<@petern>rightyho
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14:00<@petern>Belugas, from what i saw of it nestedwidgets is a good thing
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14:06<Forked>hm
14:08<Alberth>Belugas: I had a look at cpp_gui, and decided we needed something simpler
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14:15*Belugas agrees with both of you, petern and Alberth
14:19<@petern>Alberth: so do it ;)
14:21<@Belugas>on the other hand... i fear that a system that would resize a gui/widget up until the text is fully displayed might give some very unbalanced windows
14:22<@Belugas>like... imagine a german translator getting wacko ;)
14:23<@petern>pah, silly germans ;)
14:24*Forked ponders about the attitude some people have
14:25<Forked>if it's so horrible that they (devs) have not created a much wanted feature.. why not do it yourself instead of complaining how it's been overlooked FOR A BILLION years by ..someone else
14:26<Alberth>Belugas: is not a problem, germans are used to such windows, and non-germans don't use that lang file :P
14:26<Forked>can someone explain? :)
14:26<Yexo>Forked: still talking about Sirkoz?
14:26<Forked>let's call the person anonymous #5 ? it doesn't matter who it is, or does it?
14:27<Yexo>no, but I'd like to be sure we're talking about the same one :)
14:27<@Belugas>it might matter. some users have a bery big ego and are quite furstrated when their beloved work did not find the direct path to trunk
14:28<Alberth>everybody is used to complaining about computers and programs. Most probably don't even realize they can fix it if they wanted it
14:28<@Belugas>but Alberth, it means actually to... work...
14:28<@Belugas>yurk!
14:28<Forked>Belugas: It is not the author of the patch that is ..commenting on the feature being overlooked.. in this case
14:28<@Belugas>you've got to be kidding!... it's a game!!! why should I work at all???
14:29<@Belugas>Forked, it's something very common
14:29<@Belugas>it's an egocentric thing
14:30<Alberth>Belugas: and not only do you have to work, you also have to think very hard of a better way to deal with the problem in a general way (ie not a solution that works for yourself only)
14:30<Forked>"I shouted my needs, why the hell isn't the world doing what I want!?"
14:30<@Belugas>indeed, indeed
14:31<Rubidium>because your on my foo list
14:31<Rubidium>uhm... foe
14:31<Forked>I still find it amazing that people actually spend their own time to make such cool stuff.. without demanding anything in return (except less bitching perhaps:p)
14:31<pavel1269>:-)
14:31<Forked>Rubidium: I am? neat =p
14:32<Rubidium>maybe
14:32<Rubidium>don't know and can't be bothered to look at it
14:32<Rubidium>but well... lots of threads look like monologues
14:33<pavel1269>ye, because not many ppl can compile? and those patches, not big, and anything very new, why bother? :-)
14:34<Alberth>pavel1269: compiling from source is becoming a lost art
14:34<pavel1269>yeah
14:35<pavel1269>but i am sad that i have never been able to produce somethink cool myself :-( ....
14:35<Forked>well setting up the whole MS environment can be a pain.. but for me mingw32 has worked pretty good.
14:36<pavel1269>i always know, how should i write it ... but i get stuck, when i dont know, how to write it in "real" ... :(
14:37<Forked>Yexo: and yes, this time it was.
14:37<@Belugas>pavel1269, ne step at a time. programming is not something you receive at birth. you have to understand a lot.
14:38<+glx>really?
14:39<pavel1269>i do understand "a lot" for me .... but its just basics .... when it come to "&", a lot of pointers and templates i am lost :-(
14:40<Alberth>pavel1269: that's normal. You try something and get stuck. You learn why your approach does not work, find a new approach, try, fail again, etc. Each time you get a bit further until you run out of steps you need to do. Then you have solved the problem !
14:40-!-sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
14:40<Alberth>glx: there are some exceptions of course
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14:43<@Belugas>glx, yes, when starting to code from scratch, there are lots of stuff to "swallow"
14:43<@Belugas>that is my opinion, anyway
14:48<Alberth>Current high level languages also create a barrier for OpenTTD coding. New programmers can write programs without ever seeing or using a pointer explicitly, so they don't understand the concept good enough to use in a language like C or C++
14:49<Yexo>then it's a good idea for them to learn a bit about pointers
14:50<Yexo>using high level languages is fine, but imo people should understand (at least to a certain point) how pointers work / how using advanced things effects the performance of your program
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14:52<Alberth>Rubidium: I proposed to introduce Point16 rather than using Point so all alternatives of the NWidgetPart union are (roughly) of the same size.
14:53<Rubidium>with 64 bits pointers that'll still be the case
14:53<Alberth>thinking ahead to 64bit systems eh? :D
14:54<@petern>ahead?
14:55<Alberth>I still have a Win95 system with a Pentium 120 standing here :P
14:55<Alberth>Great for DOS games
14:56<Rubidium>isn't DOS box for that?
14:57<+glx>Alberth: I have a 133MMX with win98 ;)
14:57-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<Prof_Frink>I'm *using* a 166MMX.
15:00<Rubidium>my CPU also supports MMX and is faster than 166 MHz
15:02-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm91.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:02<@petern>even so
15:06<Aali>I have a 64-bit system from 1993 :)
15:06-!-Klanticus [~quassel@monowall.cisc.usp.br] has joined #openttd
15:06<Aali>or was it 94? i forget
15:07<+glx>not a PC I guess
15:07<Aali>indeed
15:07<Aali>its an alphastation
15:07<[wito]>]]]margin % [wito]
15:08<[wito]>ww
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15:11<[wito]>Sacro: Woop?
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15:16<Wolf01>hello
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15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15754 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-17 18:42:46
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 63 fixed by thetitan (63)
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 3 fixed by kkmic (3)
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: spanish - 3 fixed by eusebio (3)
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: turkish - 3 fixed by Emin (3)
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15:39<el_en>hello Wolf01
15:40-!-biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db02a0c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: gn8]
15:40<Wolf01>hello el_en
15:40<el_en>buenasera
15:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15755 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp town.h): -Fix: Number of houses in house variables 0x44, 0x60 and 0x61 were incorrect after 0xFF had been reached and could desync clients joining afterwards.
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15:48<Wolf01>after downloading the opengfx via the content manager and trying to activate it from the game options I receive a warning about corrupt or missing grf, it's that right?
15:53<Wolf01>ok, now it works, I needed to close and restart ottd
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16:05<frosch123>was the check-landscape-generator-sprites-check comitted?
16:05<frosch123>hmm, or actually coded...
16:05<Rubidium>no
16:06<Rubidium>there's a "read only the bits that are needed for the height" change and one that enabled the "fix slopes" for generated maps
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16:09<frosch123>so, "enough" :)
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17:20<@Bjarni><el_en> what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada? <-- do you think I'm stupid or something?
17:20<@Bjarni><Belugas> i think Bjarni would know better ;) <-- at least one person knows me ^^
17:21<@SmatZ>does not knowing capitals make you stupid?
17:21<@Bjarni>it might
17:22<@Bjarni>but considering the fact that a relative moved to Toronto, I should know XD
17:22<frosch123>you needed various hours to google for it though
17:22<@SmatZ>hehe
17:22<@Bjarni>I have never seen him and he died of old age some years ago, but still
17:22<@SmatZ>ah :(
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17:23<@Bjarni><frosch123> you needed various hours to google for it though <--- no. I wasn't paying attention
17:23<@Bjarni>basically I fell asleep
17:23<@Bjarni>I had a hard exam today
17:24<frosch123>so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case.
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17:35<@Bjarni><frosch123> so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case. <-- actually I had lectures all day except for lunch break and the time for the exam
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17:41<sailo>hey guys, when becomes a town a city?
17:41<el_en>right, the attempt to fool Bjarni into thinking Toronto is the capital instead of Vancouver has failed.
17:41<Rubidium>they don't
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17:42<Rubidium>it starts as town or it starts as city
17:42<Rubidium>but it won't change "type"
17:42<el_en>they becomen't
17:42<sailo>so there are some towns, where you simply can't build a bank?
17:42<sailo>even though they become huge?
17:43<[wito]>sailo: banks are population-based
17:43<[wito]>1200 in temperate, I believe
17:43<@Bjarni>el_en: pisst.... Ottawa
17:43<sailo>okay then.
17:43<sailo>thanks.
17:43<Rubidium>for that a town just needs 1200 inhabitants
17:43<Rubidium>and then it's random anyways
17:44<Rubidium>so a town with 1200 inhabitants can get a bank whereas one with a million might not
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17:50<@SmatZ>[22:43:21] <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa <== frosch123 was right about "hours spent googling" :-D
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17:54<el_en>yeah :)
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19:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15756 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: remove the assumption that the second windget is always the title bar. Also replace a few magic numbers with a const.
19:27<@SmatZ>uh uh tea and glass shards all over my floor, what have I done :-x
19:28-!-ecke [~ecke@pc126-61.upce.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:30<Rubidium>proven Newtons theorem that tea doesn't fall far from the table
19:31<@SmatZ>hehehe
19:33<Vikthor>Or maybe proven you should stop coding and go to bed, you OpenTTD-holic :p
19:34<@SmatZ>Vikthor: it would be great if I were coding for OTTD :) sadly, school is what matters now...
19:35<Rubidium>nah, this is the best time of the day to do coding
19:35<Rubidium>nice and quiet
19:35<@SmatZ>:o)
19:35*Sacro hums
19:35<Rubidium>no stupid ln/yorick/... who's annoying you
19:35<@SmatZ>hehe
19:36<@SmatZ>I am not annyoned by them though :)
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19:45<emjay88>anyone here I can talk to about the Graphics replacement project?
19:46<Rubidium>depends on the part you want to talk about
19:47<emjay88>Just need a quick explaination of how I can help
19:47<emjay88>I unzipped the opengfx files
19:48<Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Graphics_Replacement
19:48<emjay88>and would like to have a go at building graphics, but don't really know anything about the codes for the metadata file
19:49<Rubidium>that page lists the missing sprites, i.e. the sprites you can draw
19:49<emjay88>yeah, I have been around the wiki, that's more of an "About the project" and "how to set up opengfx"
19:49<emjay88>not really "you need to make a x file and it needs to be x by y pixels etc"
19:49<Rubidium>when you're satified with them you can post them in the forum thread mentioned at the bottom of the page
19:51<emjay88>ok, so I need to look for one that's missing, find it's pink square in the pcx file, and make an image that's that big?
19:52<emjay88>ie, one that matches the dimensions of the pink placeholder?
19:52<Rubidium>it should be black, not pink
19:52<emjay88>might be a "feature" of Eye of Gnome :P
19:52<Rubidium>so I think you need to try another palette in grfcodec
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19:54<Rubidium>anyhow, for town buildings you need to make sure that it fits within the "base" of a tile
19:55<emjay88>how do I know how many tiles a particular building uses? (or are they all one tile?)
19:55<Rubidium>decode the original graphics ;)
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19:58<emjay88>what palette do the openGFX files use?
19:58<Rubidium>check the .obg
19:59<Rubidium>probably the windows palette
20:02<emjay88>yeah it is
20:03<emjay88>so in the help for grfcodec where it says the palette option (-p) is to use a different palette to the default...
20:03<emjay88>is the default the one in the grf file or is it the same as -p 1
20:04<Rubidium>the GRF doesn't store the palette
20:04<emjay88>right, the obg is for building the grf right?
20:04<emjay88>or is it just used by openttd?
20:05<Rubidium>it's used by OpenTTD to find the base graphics
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20:07<emjay88>is the wiki page up to day?
20:07<emjay88>date*
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20:08<Rubidium>can't answer that; I guess you need to ask someone that is actually involved in that project
20:08<emjay88>ok cool
20:09<emjay88>last question for now: do black regions in the pcx files mean something special? (i assume it's transparent or something?)
20:09<Rubidium>the blue is transparent
20:10<emjay88>so black means nothing?
20:11<Rubidium>black is just a placeholder so it doesn't cause glitches in OpenTTD
20:11<Rubidium>you can see those black boxes when you start openttd with OpenGFX as base graphics set in the main menu
20:12<emjay88>No i mean the black areas in the original graphics (trg1r is what I'm looking at now) they seem to be silhouettes of buildings?
20:15<Rubidium>it should be blue as in http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=99910
20:15<Rubidium>if it's really black then you've probably used the wrong palette
20:16<@Bjarni><SmatZ> [22:43:21] <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa <== frosch123 was right about "hours spent googling" :-D <--- I don't need google for that. Besides it's kind of hard to answer right away when I'm not at the computer
20:17<emjay88>No the background is blue like that
20:17<emjay88>hmmm, if you can, have a look at 4438 in trg1r.pcx
20:17<Rubidium>oh, those black areas
20:18<Rubidium>press x while in game to toggle the transparency and you'll see
20:18<emjay88>sadly, I'm at work now so I can't but I'll have a go when I get home :)
20:20<Rubidium>a building is build with (at least) two sprites. One is the ground sprite which has those black places where the 'building' sprite is shown
20:21<emjay88>ok, so the black places are sort of placeholders?
20:22<Rubidium>yes, to make the buildings not glitchy when transparent
20:23<Rubidium>the sprites containing the black are also the parts that are not made transparent
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20:23<emjay88>ok, so parts of the building that are covering black areas stay visible when transparency is turned on
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20:28<Rubidium>no, the sprites with the black areas don't get transparent. Whatever covers those sprites get transparent
20:29<Brokkoli>isn't the whole "upper" sprite transparent?
20:30<Brokkoli>the buildingbasesprite unchanged and the buildingsprite transparent?
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20:31<emjay88>ok, I see
20:33<Brokkoli>so it's not required to be black, but looks a bit better, when the buildings are transparent
20:33<emjay88>ahhh
20:38<emjay88>do my new graphics have to fit within a same-size box as the originals?
20:40<Sacro>hmm, what anti-virus do I use...
20:41<Rubidium>emjay88: as long as they aren't wider than a tile you can do basically everything
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20:44<emjay88>ok, so height is not a problem, but the width is restricted
20:44<emjay88>?
20:45<Brokkoli>yes
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20:45<Brokkoli>i think height is restricted somewhere, too
20:46<Brokkoli>but i don't know about the limits
20:46<Rubidium>the height is restricted somewhere, but reaching that limit means that your building is really incredibly high
20:47<emjay88>Ok, so Ill try to fit it in the original box, and if I need to go up a bit it'll be ok
20:47<Brokkoli>yes
20:47<emjay88>cool, no sweat :)
20:47<emjay88>thanks for your help guys
20:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15757 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix/hackaround (r15314): of course on some system searching a font using its english name fails. So now we search the font using the localised name and use the english name for the final 'validation' only.
20:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15758 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r15757): win9x compilation
20:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15759 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: sprite for resizing to the left (for better RTL support)
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21:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15760 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#2704]: support that the resize box is at the left side of the window too (based on work by Alberth)
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21:27<welshdragon>if i give a tram 2 orders will it call at all stations in between?
21:27<Zuu>If you make sure you don't have "non-stop" in its orders.
21:28<welshdragon>oh good
21:28<welshdragon>thans zuu
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23:00<emjay88>does anyone here use blender in ubuntu?
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 18 00:00:23 2009