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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-21

---Logopened Sat Mar 21 00:00:33 2009
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02:26<George>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Shorter_train_vehicles_21_ says the property can be ut to 3/8, but tests with CB 11 and ARVs in OTTD show that 2/8 and 1/8 work as intended. I like it, so I suggest to modify the wiki to specify these values too. What is the first version of OTTD that supports them?
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03:00<ecke>i started to edit UK renewal due to disable restriction of use other then passenger wagons with GEC-A Eurostar, etc. ... but i really dont know what to do... action 2 and 3 are to much compicated...
03:11<el_en>did you mean "other than"?
03:16<ecke>I d like to use GEC-A Eurostar, Alstom Pendolino, others with freight wagons.
03:16<ecke>el_en ^^
03:16<ecke>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=774685#p774685
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03:29<pavel1269>hi
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03:53<Alberth>Ha!
03:54<el_en>English only.
03:54*Alberth feels very happy to be able to log in again at #openttd
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04:45<emjay88>does anyone have copies of the original TTD music as midi?
04:46<emjay88>or, how I can get them off the ttd cd? They aren't in sample.cat...
04:46<@petern>if it's a windows ttd cd, they're .gm files
04:47<emjay88>gm.cat?
04:47<@petern>if it's a dos ttd cd, they're in xxx.cat, and while you can extract them, they're no standard file format
04:47<pavel1269>use google, its easy to find them ;)
04:55<emjay88>got it thanks :)
04:59<el_en>pavel1269: legally?
05:00<pavel1269>:-)
05:01<el_en>not funny
05:01<Gekz>petern: extract what from them,
05:02<@petern>the individual files
05:02<Gekz>ah I see.
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06:52<@Rubidium>morning/evening people
06:52<pavel1269>hello
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06:59<JapaMala>afternioon
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07:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15778 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2749] (r15666): when sorting on cost don't sort on the running cost (sbr)
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07:20<Wolf01>hello
07:21<|Japa|>hi
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07:31<el_en>hello Wolf01
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07:53<Wolf01>Working copy 'D:\msys\home\OpenTTD\trunk_B\src\3rdparty\squirrel' locked
07:53<Wolf01>Please execute the "Cleanup" command.
07:53<Wolf01>mmmh
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07:54<Wolf01>I don't update for 3 weeks and you break all?
07:54<@Rubidium>well... duh... we're here to break your checkouts
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07:54<@Rubidium>just remove the 3rdparty directory
07:56<Wolf01>bah, I did it once and gave the same error, I did it after your suggestion and worked... that's a mistery
07:56<@petern>damn that was fast
08:01<Wolf01>AH! I broke something last time I modified my patch... reverting to previous one :P
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08:04<Wolf01>... a stupid copy/paste error :|
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08:29<frosch123>can everyone with a linux-like system please test, whether "xdg-open" exists, and "xdg-open http://www.openttd.org" does something useful
08:31<Alberth>frosch123: Fedora9, works if you consider opening a web-page useful ;)
08:32<frosch123>yes, thanks, your credit card number was received :)
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08:33<thingwath>it is what it should do, instead of my result: ERROR: The browser does not exist. Please reconfigure.
08:33<thingwath>:)
08:34<Noldo>what does it use to select the browser?
08:34<thingwath>and then it runs gnome control dialog for setting up default browser
08:34<thingwath>even though I run KDE, right now
08:35<thingwath>oh, I run it in screen, which outlives this desktop session by a week or something, so has no dbus session bus connection and so on
08:35<thingwath>is this useful? :)
08:38<@Rubidium>I don't think OpenTTD would outlive a desktop session
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09:23<Alberth>somebody must have thrown some dice to decide on the order of the widgets in the airport picker window :)
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09:38<Vikthor>frosch123: Works on mine Gentoo
09:39<frosch123>also works on my gentoo :)
09:39<frosch123>that was most surprising, something that works on both gentoo and the rest of the world
09:40<Alberth>you may have to switch to OpenBSD or Hurd to stay incompatible.
09:40<@petern>xdg-open worked for me but wasn't installed by default
09:41<frosch123>not by default, hmm, that is bad
09:42<Alberth>I don't think such a program exists.
09:44<Alberth>maybe we should have a setting for 'browser program'
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09:45<frosch123>which defaults to "rm -rf /"
09:46<Alberth>that would fail anyway here :)
09:46<Alberth>hmm, got to go, I'll bbl
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10:04<eQualizer>I have buses which go around one block, instead of going to the busstop. They just go around around around...
10:05<eQualizer>But if I remove some road, they go to the busstop without any problem.
10:05<eQualizer>Some road from the block they are going around.
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10:09<frosch123>using 0.6.3? something similiar was fixed somewehn
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11:27<planetmaker>Vikthor: you might want to update the config of your Tycoonez server. 10 clients and 8 companies isn't exactly what is possible with your server version ;)
11:27<eQualizer>frosch123: 0.7.0-RC1
11:28-!-Turnskin [~x@vpn-pool-78-139-218-129.homenets.tomtelnet.ru] has joined #openttd
11:28<Turnskin>Hi all again!
11:30<Turnskin>1st, i tried to use PBSignals and found it completely crazy. The usual presignals work as they must - the train never go to red signal.
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11:31<planetmaker>Vikthor: (unless of course it is wanted to limit the client number)
11:31<Janra>Hullo
11:31<Turnskin>But in case of onethread twoway railway my 3 trains began to destroy each other :(
11:32<planetmaker>Turnskin: then you got your signaling wrong ;)
11:32<[wito]>Turnskin: how did you set it up?
11:32<Turnskin>That's why i try to make this type of reilway be based on the presignals only.
11:32<planetmaker>only place a path signal where a train is allowed to stop
11:33<Turnskin>Guys, this problem was chatted about this night (my night :) ).
11:34<Turnskin>My aim was to build onethread twoway path for any quantity of trains. And mr. Yexo adviced me to use PBS.
11:35<Turnskin>But now i can say the only thing - i used presignals and i'll do it until the more functional scheme will be programmed.
11:36<Turnskin>'cause PBS now looks more toy than a real feature.
11:36<Janra>My trains select the wrong path despite my usage of pre-signals, so they wait at a red path instead of selecting the free one. Has anyone had similar problems? (The signals themselves work correctly, the trains just don't choose the green one)
11:36<planetmaker>obviously you then didn't understand how path signals work :)
11:36<planetmaker>Janra: is the train lost?
11:36<@Rubidium>Janra: then your network is flawed or trains have no orders
11:37<Turnskin>planetmaker Yep. But our signalling scheme now seems very crazy and unrealistic.
11:37<planetmaker>Not really, Turnskin :)
11:37<planetmaker>path signals are actually quite realistic
11:37<Janra>The train *might* be lost (but I can't figure out how to use waypoints because it's a dual track), and yes, the train has orders
11:37<planetmaker>(oh,.... don't mention the r-word :P )
11:37<Turnskin>I understand - there's a red signal and a green one. Red=stop, green=go.
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11:38<planetmaker>Turnskin: ??
11:39<Turnskin>You know, the situation then 2-way signal means "go in any direction" and 1-way means "go in this direction only" sounds strange.
11:40<Turnskin>planetmaker I can't understand (being well-known with usual signals) the thing then a PBS faced in the opposite direction lets the train path it!
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11:40<Turnskin>pass? (sorry for my English)
11:41<planetmaker>Turnskin: then use one-way path signals instead of those which allow passing from the back
11:41<planetmaker>though I consider that very useful and desirable
11:41<planetmaker>and realistic ;)
11:41<Turnskin>Oh! I would to tell the Implementors a bug of ver. 0.7
11:41<planetmaker>bugs.openttd.org
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11:42<Turnskin>The bug is that station near some industries begin to be nuts.
11:42<planetmaker>very accurate... :S
11:42<pavel1269>haha http://petapedia.ic.cz/lolcatsdotcomxy4wwqbmg4sdmujf.jpg
11:43<Turnskin>E.g. foodprocessing factory begins to: accept fruit/accept passengers/disaccept fruits/disaccept passengers with period of 2 days or so.
11:43<el_en>pavel1269: off-topic
11:43<planetmaker>using ecs vectors? changed newgrf during game?
11:44<@Rubidium>the station is near a town in tropical, right?
11:45<Turnskin>planetmaker I had an idea then signals are trigger-based. This means: one signal is "trigger" and is turned on/off by passing train.
11:45<Turnskin>The other (controlled) signal is turned on/off by the state of the trigger.
11:46<Turnskin>And user can set triggers and their controlled signals manually.
11:47<planetmaker>Turnskin: you know priorities? http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Priorities
11:47<Turnskin>And this scheme could work even in not-connected paths.
11:47<planetmaker>no need for path signals in order to achieve that
11:47<planetmaker>it's actually _completely_ unrelated
11:47<Turnskin>Rubidium In the last situation i met, the station was about 50 tiles from any town.
11:48<Turnskin>Much then 50
11:48<Turnskin>Yes, it was in tropicals.
11:48<@Rubidium>ah well.. no savegame == no way to tell without guessing for eons
11:48<planetmaker>:)
11:49<Turnskin>i used Pikka's industries and NARS.
11:49<planetmaker>and the quiz must go on :P
11:49<Turnskin>Well, just a moment...
11:49<@Rubidium>then turn off stockpiling if you don't want stations to stop accepting
11:49<Turnskin>Rubidium Tell me please where can i upload my saves?
11:50<Turnskin>As i know, Pikka's industries don't use stockpiles (instead of ECS)?
11:50<planetmaker>they do.
11:50<@Rubidium>Turnskin: then reread the documentation of PBI
11:50<Turnskin>Aaaaa....
11:51<Turnskin>But what is a passengers acception? For a station far from any town?
11:51<planetmaker>actually: stockpiling isn't the problem, but the limit to the stockpiles in PBI ;)
11:52<@Rubidium>maybe the stockpile limit causes passengers to be not acccepted too
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11:52<Turnskin>OK, i understood. (Learning, learning and learning as grandpa Lenin said! :) )
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11:53<Turnskin>Rubidium The fun is that station accepts passengers being VERY far from any town or oil rig.
11:53<planetmaker>maybe steel plant?
11:53<@Rubidium>well... other industries are allowed to accept passengers too
11:53<Turnskin>What?
11:54<pavel1269>"other industries are allowed to accept passengers too"
11:54<Turnskin>Pikka's indurstries do it?
11:54<Turnskin>OK, i must LEARN :)
11:54<Alberth>Turnskin: examine with the query tool
11:55<Turnskin>OK guys, very nice to chat this you and to get help. Thanx!
11:56<Turnskin>I'm oldschool player and these features are not so clear for me. I played TTDP and OTTD 2 years ago and now returned to this crazy game.
11:57<Turnskin>So, good luck in railway'ing :)
11:58<Alberth>Rubidium: tnx for finishing #2704 (resizing at left edge of the window)!
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12:11<Vikthor>planetmaker: Thanks, though I already know that. We in Tycoonez have still to talk about that.
12:11<planetmaker>:)
12:12<planetmaker>ok, I just wondered when I looked at the server list
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12:18<planetmaker>btw, Vikthor : any progress on the discussion among you tycoonez guys concerning bananas?
12:19<Vikthor>not yet
12:20<planetmaker>oh, a pity :(
12:21<pavel1269>i want banana
12:22<Vikthor>Well, most people took stance that restricting uploading to bananas only to authors is bad, that it would be better if it was decided only by licence or at least that authors should be able to delegate person to handle it
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12:22<planetmaker>he :) I understand that view, Vikthor :)
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12:25<planetmaker>if an AI goes bancrupt, will it start anew automatically?
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12:28<ecke>Yexo ... problem solved
12:29<ecke>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=774796#p774796
12:30<ksdfi9933>in game i cannot build railroad tracks, nor can i build nor can i build road vehicle depots or bus stations, but i have copied all .grf files to the /data directory
12:31<planetmaker>maybe too early year so that no train is available yet?
12:31<+glx>planetmaker: when the company is removed yes
12:31<planetmaker>glx: the company will then be removed automatically when bancrupt?
12:31<planetmaker>(I assume so, but...)
12:31<+glx>yes as it always did
12:31<planetmaker>good to know :)
12:32<planetmaker>I was just worried for the towncar AI - but if restarts automatically when the previous instance goes bancrupt, that's fine :P
12:32<ksdfi9933>planetmaker: havn't thought about that, but your right ;) 1860
12:32<|Japa|>he he
12:33<planetmaker>I really like the idea of the town car AI :)
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12:33<ksdfi9933>planetmaker: but if i cant build busses etc. how can i transport things in openttd?
12:33<|Japa|>I think the earliest you can build railroads is with the US set, which is 1830, I think
12:33<planetmaker>If you cannot build anything, you cannot transport anything. Simple :P
12:33<planetmaker>glx: thanks for the info :)
12:34<ksdfi9933>nevertheless i am offered to connect cities by bus lines :?
12:34<ksdfi9933>planetmaker: thx
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12:35<planetmaker>ksdfi9933: that's different. Subsidies are offered by towns, if you establish a certain service. They don't worry about the availability of vehicles
12:36<planetmaker>that's your problem so-to-say :P - not theirs :)
12:38<|Japa|>http://pix.sparky-s.ie/images/9y2n3s9oysc49tnr67.png
12:38<|Japa|>NARS has trains at 1831
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12:39<[wito]>ksdfi9933: also, the eGRVTS has horsies
12:39<[wito]>available from 1700
12:40<|Japa|>piut them together, and you just need sailing ships
12:40<[wito]>that
12:40<[wito]>that'd be AWSUM
12:41<|Japa|>personally, I'd want Ox carts that have a higher capacity, but lower top speed, than horse carts
12:41<[wito]>and earlier intro date
12:41<|Japa|>yeah
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12:41<[wito]>what you'd really need, tho', was year-sensitive industries
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12:41<|Japa|>not that that would be needed :P
12:42<[wito]>so that farms that pop before a certain date has one style, those after has a later
12:42<|Japa|>funny thing is, the horse carts are still better than some of the earlier trucks
12:42<Forked>why not canal boats like they had on the british isles during the industrial revoluiton? horsies pulling them I belive?
12:43<|Japa|>also, steel mill can't pop before a certain date
12:43<|Japa|>Forked, that woud be really hard to impliment
12:43<Forked>true, but :)
12:43<[wito]>indeed it would
12:44<Tefad>aren't canals prohibitedly expensive in early game?
12:45<|Japa|>yeah, they are
12:46<Janra>Will trains start behaving oddly when lost (e.g. selecting inappropriate paths at singal junctions)
12:46<Tefad>maybe
12:46<|Japa|>they don't chose the wrong one
12:46<|Japa|>usually...
12:52<Alberth>Janra: usually a sign that your junction design is flawed
12:53<Alberth>Janra: If you have enabled servicing, trains will go to a 'foreign' depot along their route if they need service, and then try to continue their old route even if that is not possible from the depot.
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13:01<George>Who plans OTTD future? What is required to add tasks to Roadmap 0.8.0?
13:02<George>I'd like to ask 1) ARVs can overtake each other
13:02<George>2) Realistic acceleration for RVs
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13:03<@Rubidium>nobody really plans and you need a developer with the incentive of implementing your feature requests
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13:07<George>Are these features in someone's todo list?
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13:11<Alberth>George: yes, the someone developer has no problem accepting new tasks. I have yet to see him commit anything though.
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13:15<@petern>i have 'realistic' acceleration of rvs somewhere
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13:25<George>petern: Good. Do you need any help on testing, providing test GRFs for example?
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14:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15779 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: unify (most) of the text drawing "API".
14:29<el_en>why is it an "API"?
14:29<@Darkvater>it needs to have a name doesn't it?
14:30<el_en>why is it in "quotes"?
14:30<@Darkvater>cause Rubidium had to get rid of a few quotes to meet his monthly quota
14:30<el_en>"i see"
14:31<@Darkvater>meh, the dollar didn't drop enough the last few days :-
14:32<el_en>you want the dollar to drop? are you an evil communist?
14:33<@Darkvater>no, I'm a european look for cheap deals in the US
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14:36<el_en>flights to US would be comfortably inexpensive now
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14:45<@Darkvater>hmm 155 dollars :s
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14:45<@Darkvater>it used to be only 100 euros, now it's 114 :(
14:46<el_en>would you like the pound value more?
14:47<@Darkvater>:)
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14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15780 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-21 18:49:32
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 2 changed by planetmaker (2)
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hebrew - 18 fixed by EScake (18)
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 27 fixed, 1 changed by Devastator (28)
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 29 fixed by coolik (29)
14:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 9 fixed by SnowFlake (9)
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15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15781 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: Missing "AIs" in the information the debug AI prints.
15:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15782 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace some calls to the all text drawing API to the new one.
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15:14<Alberth>Rubidium: filling of vertical container is broken, currently repairing the problem
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15:28<Alberth>Rubidium: are you interested in more NWidgetPart arrays at this time?
15:30<@petern>just do it all
15:31<@Rubidium>Alberth: if the basics all work then why not
15:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15783 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the dropdown draw code pass around the left/right instead of the x and width to make drawing text at offsets easier.
15:38<planetmaker>I added a "load scenario" entry to the load/save menu accessible from ingame: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2754
15:39<planetmaker>quite handy, if one checks out several scenarios. And after all it's kind of the same as load new game :)
15:40<Alberth>petern: that's what I am doing. Started at airport_gui today, and working my way through the alphabet :)
15:41<@petern>is the framework in place then?
15:42<Alberth>in my version it is :)
15:43<Alberth>and Rubidium seems busy extending it already
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15:53<ecke>can I save game edit graphic and then load game? ... during multiplayer
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16:01<Alberth>ecke: I have no idea what you intend to do, "edit graphic" ?
16:02<el_en>does someone _has_ an opinion about Haiku OS?
16:02<ecke>Alberth .. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=774796#p774796
16:02<@Rubidium>apply newgrfs on a running game? That's not a wise thing to do
16:04<@petern>el_en: are you bjarni?
16:05<el_en>petern: let me check my passport, it's right next to me... no, i don't seem to be bjarni.
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16:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15784 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r15779): TextAlignment and TA_* already exist on windows
16:08<Alberth>ecke: no idea what you are doing.
16:08<@petern>el_en, then you must be deliberately confusing has and have
16:08<@petern>glx: ... ahaha
16:11<el_en>petern: it has possible.
16:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15785 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove the *Truncated part of the old text drawing API.
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16:26<frogger>hi i installed the nightly build from source
16:26<frogger>and i unzipped the extra files into ~/.openttd
16:27<frogger>but i cant figure out how to make the program go
16:27<frogger>any suggestions?
16:28<pschorf>frogger, the old grf files need to go into the data folder
16:29<@Rubidium>what does 'installed from source' mean? What OS?
16:29<frogger>ok so i have actually never run openttd before.
16:29<pschorf>frogger, what OS are you using?
16:29<frogger>i have ubuntu
16:29<pschorf>ok
16:29<frogger>by installed from source i mean
16:29<frogger>./configure
16:29<frogger>make
16:29<frogger>make install
16:29<frogger>plus i know that you need extra files
16:30<pschorf>what happens if you type "openttd" into terminal?
16:30<frogger>so I unzipped the zip file of them into ~/.openttd
16:30<frogger>it is not valid command
16:30<frogger>"the program is not currently installed"
16:30<pschorf>did make install execute without errors?
16:31<frogger>as a side note, i also tried installing openttd using "sudo apt-get install openttd"
16:31<pschorf>also, make install should be run as root, using sudo
16:31<frogger>but i deleted this when i saw that it needed versions of the extra files that i do not have.
16:31<frogger>yes, i acutally did "sudo make install"
16:31<pschorf>ok
16:32<frogger>"sudo make install" did not complain in any way that suggested an error
16:32<frogger>each of the three steps seemed to work
16:33<@Rubidium>frogger: are the trg*.grf and sample.cat in ~/.openttd/data (as described in do not readme.txt)
16:34<pschorf>Is there a bug tracker site for OpenTTD?
16:34<frogger>i do not have a data directory in ~/.openttd
16:34<frogger>authoroverview.xls COPYING OpenGFX_Alpha4.2.tar readme.txt scenario
16:34<frogger>content_download opengfx1r OpenGFX_Alpha4.2.zip save
16:34<frogger>that is what i have in ~/.openttd
16:34<frogger>and it says not to unzip these archive files
16:35<frogger>if i am doing it wrong, where should i get the trg*.grf and sample.cat?
16:35<pschorf>you need a copy of the original transportation tycoon deluxe
16:36<pschorf>it is on abandonia.com, i believe
16:36<frogger>I thought that there were free replacements for these files.
16:36<frogger>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=40162
16:36<pschorf>there are, although i haven't used them
16:38<frogger>ok so does anyone know how to use openttd without pirating a graphics file?
16:38<pschorf>try extracting the zip file of the replacement graphics into /usr/share/games/openttd/data
16:38<@Rubidium>frogger: the OpenGFX tar needs to be in ~/.openttd/data/
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16:39<+glx>the other way is to get it using ingame content download (but you need original files for that)
16:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15786 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumify the engine preview widgets (and use them)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15787 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumify the land info and about window widgets and use them.
16:42<Ammler>heya, has the setting path_backoff_interval ever been tested in a stable yapp?
16:43<Ammler>it seems quite useless...
16:44<@Rubidium>Ammler: take whatever ottdcoop final with YAPP (the more trains the better) and set it to 0
16:44<Ammler>1 is min
16:44<Ammler>and we set that always to that
16:44<Ammler>that is why I think, it is useless :-)
16:45<Ammler>I guess, that setting was introduces in a unstable state of yapp... ;-)
16:45<frogger>so i should make a directory called ~/.openttd
16:45<frogger>and then make a directory inside this one called data
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16:46<frogger>and then unzip http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=100691 into this file
16:46<frogger>*directory
16:46<Ammler>we don't have a pbs only game.
16:49-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
16:50<frogger>now when i type "openttd" it says "bash: /user/games/openttd: No such file or directory"
16:50<@petern>Ammler: what do you expect it to do?
16:50<frogger>when i type "which openttd" i get no information
16:51<frogger>is this because I tried to install using apt-get, then uninstalled using synaptic, then tried to reinstall from source?
16:52<frogger>*/usr/games
16:53<+glx>so now you compiled from source?
16:54<frogger>ya
16:54<+glx>cd source/bin
16:54<frogger>i've tried three different ways to install
16:54<+glx>./openttd
16:54<frogger>and i've tried installing the extra files to two different directories
16:54<Alberth>frogger: usually binaries are installed in some 'bin' directory
16:55<frogger>yes they are, but usually "sudo make install" puts a link to them somewhere on the path
16:55<Ammler>[21:50] <petern> Ammler: what do you expect it to do? <-- the default makes pbs very slow in usual games.
16:55<frogger>in my experience if I try to run a binary directly from its build /bin directory then it fails in various ways
16:56<+glx>openttd works from there
16:56<frogger>kk
16:56<Ammler>with 1 it bahaves like the block signals.
16:56<Ammler>be*
16:56<Alberth>you opened a new bash shell after install? (shells tend to cache where to find commands)
16:58<Alberth>frogger: you can the built openttd in its bin directory even without further install. It uses ~/.openttd and its bin/* sub-dirs. read the readme for more details on how openttd finds its data
17:01<frogger>So openttd runs when I run its binary directly, but it says that "Your 'sample.cat' file is corrupted or missing!"
17:01<frogger>I now have sample.cat files scattered all over
17:01<frogger>~/.openttd
17:01<frogger>~/.openttd/data
17:02<frogger>/usr/local/share/openttd/data
17:02<Ammler>but I don't recognize any difference on cpu usage, with default (20) or 1
17:03<frogger>*/usr/local/share/games/openttd/data
17:04<Frostregen>sourcedir/bin/data
17:05<frogger>ok i will try that
17:08<frogger>it still says that my sample.cat file is corrupted or missing
17:08<frogger>but the game seems to start ok
17:09<Frostregen>do you have sounds?
17:11<frogger>i dont know, let me put my headphones on
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17:11<frogger>i cant hear anything.
17:12<Frostregen>i think sample.cat contains the sound samples
17:12<Frostregen>maybe yours is really corrupt
17:12<frogger>lol
17:12<Yexo>it does but you don't need them to play
17:12<frogger>ok i dont care about sound anyway
17:12<Yexo>and if you downloaded opengfx you won't have that file
17:13<frogger>well the file is in opengfx
17:13<frogger>but it is in a subdirectory with a warning file next to it
17:13<Frostregen>care to do a: md5sum sample.cat
17:13<Frostregen>?
17:13<frogger>kk
17:13<Ammler>frogger: with a readme, I guess ;-)
17:13<Frostregen>9212e81e72badd4bbe1eaeae66458e10
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17:15<frogger>ok so the sample.cat is zero bytes
17:15<frogger>thanks guys it looks like i can start making some trains
17:15<Frostregen>ok, hf :)
17:16<pschorf>does anyone have any ideas on some easier bugs that I can work on?
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17:16<pschorf>I'm interested in helping out a bit if possible
17:18<Yexo>pschorf: were you here a few days ago with the same question or was that someone else?
17:18<pschorf>Yexo, someone else
17:18<Yexo>ah, ok :)
17:18<@petern>Ammler: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/really.sav < test with 'realistic' scenario and tell me there's no difference...
17:19<Yexo>pschorf: are you aware of bugs.openttd.org?
17:19<pschorf>Yexo, i found it earlier this morning...although i wasn't quite sure what to do with any of the bugs i read :(
17:20<Yexo>I'm afraid there are no 'easy' bugs left, as those tend to be solved quite quickly
17:21<pschorf>hmm....
17:21<Yexo>however there are several features you could implement
17:21<Yexo>pschorf: and we have http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r15762/logs/general-docs-error.log ;)
17:21<Yexo>as in, a lot of code lacks proper documentation
17:21<frosch123>(which was also shown the other guy :) )
17:22<frogger>when i look for servers on the internet using "find servers" nothing happens
17:22<Yexo>that's easy to fix and it therefor it will be implemented fast (if you diff is ok of course)
17:22<pschorf>Yexo, so the documenting is a good place to start?
17:23<frosch123>it is a good place to start learning the code, but maybe a boring one :)
17:23<Yexo>imo the best place to start is with something you like
17:24<Alberth>pschorf: I use as standard tactic for new code, start reading and document along the way until you get enough understanding to try changing something
17:24<Yexo>ie I started coding a patch that implemented restrictions for waypoints
17:24<Yexo>the code was pretty bad, but while writing that patch I learned a lot of the code
17:24<frosch123>hehe, true, luckily noone knows which attempt my first patch was heading for :)
17:25<Yexo>so I'd say pick a feature you would like (no matter how hard it looks like), and just try to see how far you come
17:25<pschorf>ok
17:25<Yexo>don't be disappointed if nobody likes that first patch, but you can learn a lot that way
17:25<pschorf>ha
17:25<@Rubidium>frosch123: your firewall is blocking the packets I reckon
17:25<pschorf>i'll see what i can do
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17:26<frosch123>Rubidium: "fro" is not unique
17:26<frogger>how do i tell if my packets are blocked
17:26<Yexo>pschorf: have fun :) And don't be afraid to ask for help here, as long as you don't overdo it (ie questions are fine, a new question every 5 minutes is not)
17:26<planetmaker>pschorf: despite what Yexo sais, I reccomend to not start with a _huge_ patch ;)
17:26*Yexo agrees with planetmaker
17:27<Yexo>although it's hard to know what's 'huge' and what is not before you learn your way around the code a bit
17:27<planetmaker>the way I started getting into the code was looking at existing patches and trying to update them.
17:27*petern remembers one of his early 'small' patches
17:27*planetmaker agrees with Yexo :)
17:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15788 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumify the network join status widgets and use them.
17:27<@petern>the one with bridges over diagonal track...
17:28<Ammler>ok petern, there might be a difference :-)
17:28<planetmaker>petern: I guess that's a nice one :) :P Can we have bridges over diagonal tracks?!? :P
17:28<pschorf>thanks for all your help
17:28<@petern>it started off at about 10KB...
17:28<pschorf>i'm sure i'll be back with questions at some point
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17:28<frogger>when i "check online content" my packets are not blocked
17:28<@petern>and ended up a couple of hundred or something
17:29<@petern>and then the best bit was
17:29<@petern>i did throw a wobbler when i had to throw it all away :p
17:29<@petern>no
17:29<@petern>i did*n't* :/
17:29<@petern>that was before i was a dev :p
17:30<frogger>ok so what does the "find server" button actually do
17:30<@petern>it finds servers
17:30<planetmaker>what's a synonym for "throwing a wobbler"? My dict doesn't know it...?
17:30<@petern>make sure it says Internet, not LAN
17:30<frogger>it is
17:30<@Rubidium>it's sending/receiving loads of UDP packets
17:30<@petern>planetmaker: see richk
17:31<frogger>well maybe i will break out wireshark then and see wat is up
17:31<planetmaker>throw a wobbly?
17:31<@petern>no
17:31<@petern>wobbler
17:32<frogger>my packets are throwing a wobbler
17:32<@petern>planetmaker: "yfgi" ;)
17:32<frogger>they are spitting the dummy
17:34<planetmaker>err... whatever
17:34<planetmaker>http://www.google.de/search?q=yfgi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a <-- doesn't look like :P
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17:36<@petern>...
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17:43<frogger>ok so clicking "Find server" apparently sends a 4 byte UDP message to openttd.org port 3978
17:43<frogger>what is supposed to happen next
17:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15789 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add DiagdirBetweenTiles() and use it.
17:44<@Rubidium>a ~ 1 kB packet should be returned
17:45<@petern>er
17:45<@petern>actually
17:45<@petern>it's not working for me either
17:45<frosch123>for me it works
17:45<@petern>hmm
17:45<@Rubidium>it works for me
17:45<Yexo>doesn't work here
17:45<Yexo>usijng 0.7.0-RC1
17:45<Yexo>oops, that was too fast :(
17:46<Yexo>forgot to select 'internet'
17:46<@petern>mmm
17:46<@Rubidium>branches/0.7 works for me too
17:46<@petern>maybe this torrent is stopping it :o
17:47<@petern>yeah
17:47<@petern>works now :p
17:48<@petern>hmm
17:48<@petern>but the servers page gives me a 500 error
17:49<planetmaker>I got today from time to time error 500 for various parts of *.openttd.org
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18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15790 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the *Centered part of the old text drawing API.
18:05-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:05<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:05<Yexo>hello Nite_Owl
18:06<Nite_Owl>Hello Yexo
18:09<Nite_Owl>So who gets today's nightly blame?
18:09<@Rubidium>Windows
18:10<Nite_Owl>When all else fails blame Micro$oft
18:12<thingwath>Blame the crisis. Very popular. :o)
18:14<Nite_Owl>You could blame AIG or Congress but that only holds true on this side of the pond
18:14<KingJ>We've got our fair share of people to blame on this side too, rest assured
18:15<thingwath>Or just blame the other side. :)
18:15<Nite_Owl>too true unfortunately
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18:16<@Rubidium>still, the nightly compiled on all important platforms ;)
18:16<frosch123>like macos
18:17*Nite_Owl hits a penguin over the head with an apple
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18:19<@Rubidium>it's just to show the 'noobs' that not every nightly works fine
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18:21<@petern>((r.top + r.bottom + 1) >> 1) - 5 + clicked
18:21<@petern>nasty :)
18:21<Nite_Owl>back in the day the "do not blame us if it eats your saved game" message was enough to keep me away for awhile
18:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15791 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the *RightAligned part of the old text drawing API.
18:22<@petern>that should really be (r.top + r.bottom + 1 - textheight) / 2 + clicked
18:22<@petern>but no doubt we'll get to that
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18:25<frosch123>hehe, the next nightly will be mine :)
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15792 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use a different algorithm for train vehicles to follow the vehicle in front of them.
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18:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15793 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Allow train vehicles to be shorten to 1/8 length, even if not at the end of the train.
18:39<@petern>what about road vehicles?
18:40<frosch123>they never had that restriction
18:40<@petern>righto
18:42<frosch123>and it even works for them :)
18:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15794 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the DoDrawString part of the old text drawing API
18:47<@petern>Rubidium's on a roll
18:48<@petern>I hope we won't have to backport any GUI fixes :p
18:49<@Rubidium>ah well, it's not as annoying as C -> C++ was for backporting
18:49<@Rubidium>it's ONLY limited to the GUI
18:49<@petern>:)
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18:53*frosch123 is bored, let's highlight sacro
18:53<Sacro>:(
18:53*Sacro is bored, let's highlight Darkvater
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18:56<Ammler>http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings#Trivia <-- :-o patch settings came from TTDPatch, lol
18:57<Yexo>that may or may not be true, but FooBar did an awesome job on creating those Advanced_Settings/* wiki pages
18:57<frosch123>Ammler: add [citation needed]
18:58<Yexo>frosch123: we're not wikipedia!
18:58<Ammler>:-)
18:58<Ammler>Yexo: indeed, I was just wondeing, foobar might know it better :-)
18:59<Ammler>or more suprised
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19:00<Yexo>Ammler: I really have no idea where the name "patch settings" comes from, though I suspects it's from adding a patch (as in source code) that added a new option
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19:03<Ammler>yexo, that is what I thought all the time too. settings beside of the original, maybe that might be sources from TTDPatch
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19:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15795 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Move the settings table from settings.cpp to table/settings.h. Patch breaking time :)
19:17<Nite_Owl>returned from feeding
19:19<Nite_Owl>looks like you are going to hit r15800 before the day is done
19:19<Yexo>more than 23 hours to go, should be possible :)
19:20<@petern>40 minutes!
19:20<Nite_Owl>darn time zones - before you go to sleep
19:21<Tefad>four hours forty minutes
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15796 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: unify multiline drawstrings
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19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15797 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make users of the old DrawStringMultiLine use the new one.
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19:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15798 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Fix (r15795): gcc doesn't like static functions that are not declared static.
19:46<TinoDidriksen>Who'd have thunk...
19:47<Yexo>thunk? :p
19:47<Yexo>msvc didn't complain this time ;)
19:48<TinoDidriksen>thunk = thought, for silly cases.
19:49<planetmaker>he... I guess that was that: /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/settings.cpp:655: error: 'bool v_PositionMainToolbar(int32)' was declared 'extern' and later 'static'
19:49<Yexo>planetmaker: yes, it was
19:50<planetmaker>:) you're fast :)
19:50<Yexo>Rubidium was fast reporting the problem
19:51<pavel1269>gn ppl
19:51<@petern>9 minutes for 2 commits?
19:51<Nite_Owl>later pavel1269
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19:52<Yexo>petern: you don't have a patch lying around you can commit? :p
19:52<@petern>i have tons
19:52<frosch123>2 commits is also enough for a revert :p
19:52<planetmaker>compiles :)
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19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15799 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Save rail type label list to savegame and perform mapping on load if necessary.
20:00<@petern>damn
20:00<@petern>too slow
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20:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15800 /trunk/src/ (engine_gui.cpp gfx.cpp): -Codechange: make the engine gui use the new multiline API.
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20:26<Wolf01>'night
20:26<Nite_Owl>later wolf01
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20:54<ecke>dbg: [net] [udp] queried from '10.0.35.17'
20:54<ecke>openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/is2/src/oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Company]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
20:54<ecke>Aborted
20:55<Yexo>ecke: can you reproduce that problem?
20:55<Yexo>hmm, is2
20:55<@Rubidium>Yexo: don't be bothered...
20:55<Yexo>complain in #openttd.is
20:55<Yexo>Rubidium: noticed that a bit late :p
20:56<ecke>Ammler ?
20:56<ecke>are you here?
20:58<Ammler>I am, but I am no dev of that patch :-)
20:59<Ammler>iirc, it is a fixed trunk bug...
20:59<Ammler>but is2.0beta1 is before that.
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20:59<Yexo>good night
20:59<Ammler>night Yexo
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21:01<Ammler>is2 has none known bugs, afaik.
21:01<Nite_Owl>later Yexo
21:02<@Rubidium>Ammler: that's a fact like copy-paste can't cause desyncs, right?
21:02<Ammler>btw. ecke nice first name :P
21:02<ecke>not mine
21:02<Ammler>Rubidium: "known" :P
21:02<ecke>mean dbg?
21:02<Ammler>he?
21:02<ecke>:)
21:02<ecke>nice first name :P ... ?
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21:03<Ammler>well, it looks like you play on my pc
21:03<Ammler>> pwd
21:03<Ammler>/home/marcel/bin/ottd/is2
21:04<ecke>sou compiled that...
21:04<ecke>*so you
21:04<Ammler>ah, now, I get it, lol
21:04<ecke>i am using your i686 version from forum
21:05<Ammler>that is is sure the trunk bug, as this is 2.0beta1
21:05<ecke>can i bypass the problem?. .. i d like to play this game
21:05<Ammler>don't delete tunnels of other companies, I guess
21:06<Ammler>or it is something else?
21:07<Ammler>not so sure anymore :P
21:07<ecke>hm... i did nothing .... i just minimize the client and then after 30 minutes ... connection lost ... and on server this message
21:07<ecke>i think its another bug
21:08<Ammler>indeed, maybe you can post it on the is forum?
21:08<Ammler>thread*
21:09<Ammler>swallow or aali would know it...
21:10<Ammler>or if you can compile self, use the newest source, they made a update yesterday
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21:21<paul_>can anyone help me with cargodest?
21:28<paul_>all of my cargoes are listed as having an unknown destination, which (i think) prevents them from being routed properly
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21:42<welshdragon>if i was to open a game that had been using the infrastructure sharing patch, and went to load the game in 0.7.0rc1,would the game crash?
21:43<Sacro>welshdragon: depends if IS bumps the savegame number
21:43<@Rubidium>it shouldn't
21:43<@Rubidium>but it for sure won't be able to load the savegame
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21:59<Ammler>welshdragon: what does rc1 have, what is doesn't?
21:59<welshdragon>shared tracks?
22:00<Ammler>yes, is has that, why do you want to load such a game in rc1?
22:01<welshdragon>well, sacro asked me, and i said it wouldn't work
22:03<Ammler>you shouldn't miss a trunk feature in IS
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22:03<welshdragon>aah
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22:11<Sacro>grr
22:11<Sacro>damn you MS
22:11<Sacro>when you say 'amount of time'
22:11<Sacro>SPECIFY A DAMNED UNIT ><
22:11<Sacro>oh, milliseconds
22:15<welshdragon>Sacro: did you give me west coast express part 2 as well?
22:17<Sacro>no
22:17<welshdragon>..meh
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22:17<Sacro>sod this, switching to hashtable
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 22 00:00:37 2009