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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-23

---Logopened Mon Mar 23 00:00:40 2009
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00:11-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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01:26<el_en>good morning, cyborgs and gentlemen
01:28<goodger>good morning, el_en
01:48<el_en>you're up unhumanly early
01:51<goodger>firstly, it's "inhuman"
01:51<goodger>secondly, I have not yet gone to sleep
01:51<goodger>thirdly, so are you :P
01:52<el_en>i'm on GMT+2
01:52<goodger>wait
01:52<goodger>daylight savings time
01:52<el_en>has not begun yet.
01:53<el_en>(i hope!)
01:53<goodger>no, apparently it hasn't
01:53<goodger>my watch matches my computer and my watch is in UTC+0
01:53<goodger>I thought finland was in CEST, though
01:54<goodger>oh well; you learn something new every day
01:58<el_en>daylight saving time is one useless invention that causes much trouble.
01:58<goodger>yes, it is
01:59<goodger>*sigh* with rare exception, all beethoven sounds precisely alike
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02:32<energetic>today i learned there is a bug in station catchment ;)
02:41<Forked>coffee good.
02:41*Forked sets up mingw etc all over again
02:51<Forked>uh, time to get started.. should be at work in 5.. and before that the dog needs air.
02:52*Forked waves
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03:19<dihedral>morning lads
03:20<el_en>http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/japan.planecrash/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
03:32-!-Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
03:38<@petern>woah
03:40<@petern>why did dropdownin get removed?
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04:34<planetmaker>good morning :)
04:34<emjay88>good evening
04:39<Forked>good old nekomaster
04:39<Forked>"(...) should at least post a patched version of the win32 binary."
04:42-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.210] has joined #openttd
04:48<DASPRiD>good morning
04:51<|Japa|>yes, the morning is good
04:55<planetmaker>Forked: that name just dropped off my mind and memory. Was there need to invoke bad memories? :P
04:55<Forked>it's monday.. people should suffer with me!
04:55<planetmaker>or is it just masochism? ;)
04:55<planetmaker>oh, fair enough :P
04:56<emjay88>luckily for me, monday is almost over :)
05:12-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
05:41<DASPRiD>mondays kill fairies!
05:44<Gekz>no u
05:44<Gekz>buy my nintendo ds
05:44<Gekz>you can play OpenTTD on it :P
05:47-!-valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
05:48<emjay88>does it work gekz? or is that like you can run a http server on my phone?
05:48-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@main.sspbrno.cz] has joined #openttd
05:49<Gekz>emjay88: I've seen it work on the internet
05:49<Gekz>all DSes are capable
05:49<pavel1269>hello
05:49<emjay88>I got it a while ago, crashed when I gave a train an order and pressed "go"
05:50<emjay88>hi pavel1269
05:52<planetmaker>hey pavel1269 :)
05:52<pavel1269>ello mate, whassup? :-)
05:52<planetmaker>I wondered why you assign your feature patch a medium priority instead of a modest low or very low :)
05:53<planetmaker>(town size patch)
05:55<@petern>priority is useless attribute
05:55<planetmaker>petern: well... depends :)
05:56<planetmaker>... mostly on how _you_ use it :P
05:56<@petern>as is severity
05:56<planetmaker>yeah. That's how I understand it.
05:56<@petern>(most things george reports are, apparently, very severe.)
05:56<planetmaker>hehe
05:56<planetmaker>game crashes without those features, I assume ;)
05:57<planetmaker>Maybe it's possible to change actually flyspray to call it severity instead of priority?
05:57<@petern>flyspray has *both*
05:58<planetmaker>oh ... :P right. I should first check back before starting to talk :P
05:58*planetmaker hides
05:59-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd
05:59<planetmaker>^^ severity=medium, priority=high
05:59<emjay88>isn't it possible that a bug is severe (causes ottd to die and takes the os with it) and yet has a low priority (too hard to fix, not possible to fix, very very hard to reproduce etc)
06:02-!-|Japa| [~Japa@117.201.98.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:03<@petern>it's possible that people could not set their own reports to high priority and very severe
06:03<@petern>but rare :p
06:05<Singaporekid>oparnttdcop
06:08<Gekz>petern: you could always set it so that bug reports are all low until changed by a developer?
06:10<[wito]>So I took a giant screenshot
06:10<[wito]>now what do I do?
06:11<pavel1269>planetmaker: why not, everyone is doing that :-P
06:12<@petern>Gekz, well, i can't
06:14<[wito]>I mean, what does one do with this 271MB monster of a PNG file?
06:16<[wito]>apart from using it to crash computers. :P
06:17<emjay88>write a liitle app that lets you veiw it through a window?
06:18<planetmaker>pavel1269: all flies eat shit - many flies cannot err - so let's all eat shit?
06:19<pavel1269>no, oly if you are a fly :-)
06:19<pavel1269>i know, what do you mena ;)
06:19<pavel1269>*mean
06:19<[wito]>the problem is that when the file is decompressed it's 2 gigabytes of image data. :P
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06:24*dihedral tries to set those values with respect to everything else going on
06:24<dihedral>usually i note my stuff as less than default
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06:44<@petern>http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KnYb81eQShI/ScMUAamgENI/AAAAAAAAACA/qK03jPqob2s/s1600-h/wow2.JPG < possibly old
06:44<Vikthor>dihedral: Hi, Ammler told me you had issue with autopilot creating openttd zombies, I seem to have same problem, how did you solved that?
06:47-!-mikl [~mikl@95.209.234.29.bredband.3.dk] has joined #openttd
06:49<dihedral>kill -9
06:49<@petern>http://media.www.brockpress.com/media/storage/paper384/news/2004/10/26/Features/How-To.Kill.A.Zombie-781311.shtml
06:49<@petern>zombies can't be killed, they're already... dead
06:49<dihedral>Vikthor, when do you get the zombies?
06:49<Noldo>dihedral: what, it doesn't reap?
06:49<DASPRiD>poor zombies! :(
06:50<dihedral>petern, openttd zombies, which keeps autopilot alive
06:50<SmatZ>:'-(
06:50<dihedral>but you can kill autopilot with -9 which will then also kill the zombie
06:50<Vikthor>When I try to exit the autopilot/openttd eg. by typing quit into console
06:50<dihedral>are you running autopilot in screen?
06:50<dihedral>must be
06:50<Vikthor>in dtach, but that is similar
06:51<dihedral>i kill -9 the pid of autopilot
06:51<@petern>so it's an autopilot bug
06:51<@petern>or tcl
06:51<dihedral>petern, i dont know, whenever you watch the app in screen and exit it does not happen
06:51<@petern>well
06:51<dihedral>to me it looks like screen exists before autopilot really exists
06:51<@petern>it's never the fault of a zombie process
06:51<dihedral>and i have not tried it with another app
06:52<dihedral>it does not happen if you run openttd in screen - that works fine
06:52<Vikthor>Aha so no other solution than kill for now, thanks
06:52<dihedral>nope
06:52<dihedral>sorry
06:52<@petern>REAP what you SOW
06:52<DASPRiD>zombies are innocent, their were bitten by other zombies, so please dont kill them :(
06:52<dihedral>i tried a few different things
06:52<DASPRiD>there is a cure!
06:53<Vikthor>DASPRiD: I don't kill the zombies I kill the tcl shell, zombies perish afterwards :)
06:53<dihedral>petern, for some reason, autopilot receives an eof after issuing a quit on the openttd console
06:53<dihedral>but openttd is still running ^^
06:54<dihedral>well "running" rather ^^
06:54<dihedral>the fother mucking zomby parten :-P
06:54<dihedral>*parent
06:54<@petern>and EOF from what?
06:54<dihedral>openttd
06:54<dihedral>autopilot start ./openttd -D
06:55<dihedral>when you close the console, there is an eof on openttd's stdout
06:55<dihedral>which ap picks up on
06:55<dihedral>and tries to close
06:55<DASPRiD>btw dihedral: http://german-bash.org/65345
06:56<Noldo>why doesn't it wait for SIGCHLD?
06:56<dihedral>in the case of ap running in screen (or this other app) in detached mode, it does not seem to be successful
06:56<dihedral>however when you watch it (i.e. you are in the screen session) it works
06:56<dihedral>Noldo, because i cannot read that with Expect ;-)
06:57-!-thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Do školy, snad. Asi.]
07:00<@petern>you don't read it, you set up a signal handler... but never mind
07:01*dihedral gives it a try
07:02<dihedral>however i still doubt it'll work ^^
07:04<dihedral>catching signals requires tclx
07:04<dihedral>which is not available on most systems
07:06<@petern>hah
07:06<dihedral>i dont really understand it, as quitting openttd fia the console works on it's own
07:07<dihedral>just the process does not die when openttd is run in expect and on a detached screen
07:17<dihedral>i do have a fix :-D
07:17<@petern>:D
07:18*DASPRiD puts some zombies hidden in a screen into Vikthor's bed
07:18*petern ponders trying to get it working in his vserver
07:18<Singaporekid>WHEN DID YOU HAVE A SERVER
07:19<dihedral>Vikthor, update ;-)
07:19<Vikthor>will do
07:20<dihedral>oh - wait a jiffy ^^
07:21<dihedral>there you go ;-)
07:21<dihedral>commit had failed
07:21<@petern>Singaporekid: since ... forever!
07:22<Singaporekid>Is it fuzzly?
07:22<@petern>yarr
07:22<@petern>actually there are two openttd servers atm
07:22<@petern>for reasons unknown to me now
07:22<dihedral>^^
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07:29<Vikthor>dihedral: No more zombies, thank you.
07:29<dihedral>you are welcome ;-)
07:29<dihedral>anything else?
07:29<dihedral>^^
07:30<Vikthor>no, thanks :)
07:39<@petern>oh yeah, i better update to RC2
07:39-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3, 0.7.0-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
07:46<[wito]>someone might want to verify this, but I do believe your page on compiling openttd for OS X is slightly wrong; libpng with header files should be available out-of-the-box, at least on 10.5 with dev tools
07:46<@petern>it's a wiki
07:47<@petern>at least, i assume you're refering to the wiki
07:47<[wito]>good point
07:47<@petern>in which case 1) we probably didn't write it 2) you can update it
07:48<dihedral>3) hardly anybody cares to read
07:48<[wito]>3 is the most compelling argument for me not giving a rats ass, I must admit
07:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15830 /trunk/src/ (news_func.h news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: don't use fixed size of array in news_gui.cpp and news_func.h
07:49*petern ponders more memory
07:49<@petern>2GB just isn't enough these days...
07:50<@petern>could go to the max for my board of 8GB
07:50<@petern>still < £100 these days :o
07:51<planetmaker>[wito]: afaik I had to install it on 10.4
07:53*Rubidium just downloads the appropriate debian image when he wants to compile OSX stuff
07:53<[wito]>planetmaker: I can't remember ever installing it on 10.5
07:54<[wito]>yet I quite clearly had it
07:54<@petern>oh... doesn't seem to support 2GB modules at 1066 :/
07:54-!-Hendikins [~wolfox@124.189.1.158] has joined #openttd
07:55<[wito]>that's funny...
07:55<@petern>nor at 800...
07:55<@petern>odd
07:55<@petern>maybe it just wasn't tested
07:55<[wito]>my homebrew compile is like, half the size of the distribution version
07:55<[wito]>oh
07:55<[wito]>right
07:55<[wito]>forgot --enable-universal
07:56<planetmaker>hardly necessary for home brewed ;)
07:57<[wito]>actually
07:57<[wito]>I have two machines
07:57<[wito]>one intel and one ppc
07:57<DASPRiD>no amd? :x
07:57<[wito]>oh, and an amd, of course
07:57<[wito]>but that's my linux box
07:58<[wito]>but AMD Macs are hard to come by
07:58<@petern>otoh
07:58<@petern>i suspect i don't need 8GB
08:00*Hendikins doesn't need 16, but has it (only 2 gig/core...)
08:01<@petern>heh, compiling without asserts strips off 0.5MB from the binary
08:01<@petern>my board only supports 8
08:01<@petern>"only"
08:01<Hendikins>My board supports 32, but I decided it was too expensive (Registered+ECC DDR2 800)
08:02<@petern>well clearly you have a workstation board rather than a cheap desktop board :)
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08:02<Hendikins>Er. Apparently.
08:02*petern finds his Q6600 enough, as well
08:03<Hendikins>Although I sent a cheap desktop board with an X2 6000+ and 8GB off to a friend of mine. 8 was probably the limit for it though
08:03<@petern>and probably not registered ecc
08:03<Hendikins>No, definitely not.
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08:05*Hendikins sets up the prerequisites so that he can actually build/play ottd for the first time in yonks.
08:06<@petern>time make -j 16 :D
08:06<Hendikins>Nah
08:06<Hendikins>time make -j
08:06<Hendikins>real 0m25.532s
08:06<Hendikins>user 2m29.861s
08:06<Hendikins>sys 0m15.785s
08:07<@petern>hmm
08:07<@petern>odd
08:07<@petern>i get 35 seconds
08:07<@petern>well, still faster :)
08:07<Hendikins>I get 30 if I use -j 16 instead of -j
08:08<@petern>i have yet to convince the powers that be to get some HP DL785s
08:08<@petern>which would make a nice box
08:09<@petern>8 quad core Opterons
08:09<@petern>128GB ram...
08:09<@petern>1300W power supply, heh
08:09<Hendikins>This machine was a bit of a compromise.
08:10<@petern>(although that spec costs £25000)
08:12<Hendikins>I'm using 2 quad core Opterons, 16GB RAM and a 1000W power supply.
08:12<Hendikins>(And a pair of GTX260-216s for video)
08:13-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.84.14] has joined #openttd
08:15<Forked>heheh layer 8 joke..
08:20<@petern>so what do you actually do that requires 8 cores *and* double graphic cards?
08:20<@Rubidium>Microsoft Outlook?
08:20<@petern>:D
08:21<@petern>outlook needs that fully loaded DL785 i think
08:21<SpComb>and Solitaire
08:22<Hendikins>petern: Nothing that requires the video cards, but I do use all 8 cores with things like virtualization, video encoding, software build jobs, etc.
08:25<Hendikins>Hrm, it -has- been a while since I last touched ottd. I do like the ability to download stuff.
08:25<@petern>heh
08:26<Hendikins>And I can finally use 3200x1200 (I don't recall this working last time I tried?)
08:27<@Rubidium>ah well, people are already complaining about the 'next limit'
08:27<Hendikins>No matter what you do, people complain
08:27<planetmaker>mooooar ;)
08:27*Hendikins has to deal with that on a daily basis, working on a railway of all places
08:27<@Rubidium>ah well, any limit there is now will be met with a "not our bug"
08:28<@petern>4096x4096?
08:29<@Rubidium>well, OpenTTD does not limit
08:30<Hendikins>I'm happy to be able to use both monitors :)
08:30<@Rubidium>whatever limit there is now is either the OS, the video card (driver) or just insanity
08:31<@Rubidium>as in 65535x65535 isn't quite going to work on a 32 bits system
08:31<@petern>well yes
08:31<Hendikins>Or all of the above.
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08:51<emjay88>g'night all
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09:04<Brianetta>Anybody know of a shunting game for Linux?
09:04<Brianetta>Flash based puzzles are acceptable suggestions
09:05-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet586.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
09:06<@petern>there was a java one i played with, but forgot the name
09:07<DASPRiD>shunting?
09:07<Brianetta>Yes
09:07<Brianetta>That thing which Americans call switching
09:07<DASPRiD>how about javascript based puzzles? :x
09:07<Brianetta>sure
09:07<DASPRiD>www.klotski.de
09:08<Brianetta>as long as I don't have to fight with Wine (:
09:08<@Rubidium>virtualbox ;)
09:08<DASPRiD>i made that one, tho its a clone of gnome-klotski ;)
09:08<DASPRiD>so not really a good reason when you are already a gnome-user
09:08<Brianetta>Hmm, not really the kind of shunting I was after...
09:09<DASPRiD>oh, mkay
09:09<Brianetta>but it *is* damned cool
09:09<@petern>that's shuffling, heh
09:09<Brianetta>but I'm a Gnome user, so I've solved these (:
09:09<DASPRiD>Brianetta, even the last one? ;)
09:09<Brianetta>http://nrich.maths.org/public/viewer.php?obj_id=956
09:10<Brianetta>I remember that from the off-topic forum
09:10<DASPRiD>uhm o.0
09:11<DASPRiD>ah i c
09:12<DASPRiD>which stupid guy builds a ML with just one track? :D
09:12<Brianetta>Who said anything about a ML?
09:12<+glx>a stupid guy :)
09:12<Brianetta>It's a BL
09:12-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g228018082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
09:12<DASPRiD>Brianetta, ML is written at the bottom of the picture
09:12<DASPRiD>^^
09:13<Brianetta>Well, it's a simple lack of terminology
09:13-!-svip [~svip@0x53589c76.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:13<Brianetta>The author would probably have written "Running Line" if he'd known what it was called
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09:14<Brianetta>http://www.tont.be/Gartriage/EN/
09:14-!-svip [~svip@0x53589c76.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
09:14<Brianetta>Alas, Windows users have it all
09:15<DASPRiD>o.0
09:16<DASPRiD>could work via wine
09:16<DASPRiD>else virtaulbox
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09:16<Brianetta>[13:08] <Brianetta> as long as I don't have to fight with Wine (:
09:16<@petern>pah, pc crashed :/
09:16<Gekz>get linux
09:16<Brianetta>If I'm going to use Windows software I might as well reboot
09:19<Brianetta>Frijj Milkshake. £1.05, or £1 for two.
09:19<Brianetta>Mad.
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09:20<@petern>heh
09:20<@petern>like energy saving bulbs
09:20<@petern>50p each
09:20<@petern>or 5 for 40p
09:20<SmatZ>8-)
09:21<SmatZ>even one for 50p is incredibly cheap
09:32<dihedral>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2741 <- would be pretty helpful with a lot of clients on one game ;-)
09:35<@Belugas>hello
09:35<dihedral>hello Belugas
09:35<@petern>yeah, typing 'clients' is quite hard
09:36<dihedral>petern, searching through a up to 255 clients list is a pain
09:36<dihedral>and will not allow you to act fast enough
09:37<@Rubidium>dihedral: then don't allow 255 clients
09:37<@Rubidium>because you it doesn't mean you must
09:37<dihedral>Rubidium, the game supports 255 clients
09:37<dihedral>why would the game then not support easily getting hold of the client's id on a server?
09:38<dihedral>and rather ask the admins to not allow what openttd supports?
09:38<@Rubidium>dihedral: the game support 8192x8192 (and higher resolutions), does that mean you need to use such a resolution?
09:38<@Darkvater>clients | grep <id>
09:38<@Darkvater>voila ;)
09:38<dihedral>there is no grep
09:38<Tefad>there is no spoon
09:38-!-Alberth [~hat@se-162.se.wtb.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
09:38<@Darkvater>+1 Tefad
09:39<SmatZ>you are the spoon
09:39<Tefad>i may be spoony but i am no spoon
09:39<Tefad>off to work.
09:40<dihedral>Rubidium, the game allows 15 companies, and will display the number of a company the client joins :-P
09:40<dihedral>why is displaying the client id on the server then such a bad thing
09:41<dihedral>in the rare case of there being more than e.g. 20 clients
09:41<dihedral>having to search the list for the name, can be tedious
09:42<@petern>hmm, did we ever change the 'give money' system from client to company?
09:42<dihedral>petern, just dont allow giving money :-P
09:43<dihedral>min_active_clients does not work, then dont use it ^^
09:43<dihedral>Rubidium, ^ how about those examples ;-)
09:44<dihedral>also, extending some commands to accept id's as an optional parameter would be helpful in the case of there being a lot of clients in one game (e.g. status [<client-id>])
09:45<planetmaker>petern: no, you didn't so far :)
09:48<Ammler>dihedral: how hard is it to extend the clients commands to accept nickname instead of id?
09:48<dihedral>nickname is ugly ^^
09:48<Ammler>(or both)
09:48<@petern>min_active_clients does work :p
09:48<@Belugas>reality is ugly
09:49<@petern># I WANNA FUCK YOU
09:49<dihedral>petern, that was an example for before it was fixed
09:49<Ammler>hehe, it could conflict, if someone is using a number as nick :-)
09:49<dihedral>petern, like an animal?
09:49<@Belugas>The Great Destroyer (Modwheelmood) on Year Zero Remixed, wonderfull...
09:49<@Belugas>oup...
09:49<@Belugas>sorry
09:49<planetmaker>eh...
09:50<planetmaker>Belugas: you're not really sorry that you find that wonderfull?
09:51<@Belugas>well... it was not meant to be pasted i here :S
09:51<dihedral>petern, point being, that a 255 lines long list would be a pain, and just because it's a pain saying one should not allow that many clients is a really really silly (sorry) argument ^^
09:53<@petern>will you just shut up
09:53<@petern>the more you go on the less chance there is
09:53<@petern>you should know that by now
09:54<+glx>how displaying the client-id on join will help if everybody join at the same time?
09:54<+glx>or if the chat is very busy?
09:55*Belugas would guess it will be an admin stuff script to auto kick ban more easily
09:55<+glx>or if the client you want to "control" changed his nick many times?
09:55<dihedral>why kick / ban ?
09:55<taisteluorava>if i upgrade cargodest R15774 win32 build with RC2 installer,does it work anymore?
09:55<dihedral>glx, if the nick is changed, the id is still the same
09:56<+glx>yes but you have to search in the log to find when he joined
09:56<+glx>and you need to trace all nick changes
09:56<@Belugas>taisteluorava, no one knows up until someone tries ;)
09:57<taisteluorava>ok : )
09:57<taisteluorava>i take that risk
09:57<+glx>allowing nicks in commands who be a better solution I think
09:58<dihedral>glx, and what do you do with those people who use utf8 chars not listed on your keyboard?
09:58<dihedral>or is that not possible anymore?
09:58<@Rubidium>dihedral: and a group of people repeatedly joining/leaving with client id 'spamming' the console makes it easier in what way?
09:59<dihedral>if you want to go to extremes, feel free - but once you are there, what in openttd is safe?
09:59<@petern>private servers :D
09:59<dihedral>what at all is protected from flooding / spaming in anyway
10:00<dihedral>ban accepts a client id
10:00<dihedral>kick accepts one
10:00<dihedral>say_client does too
10:00<dihedral>but you only have the name when they join
10:00<dihedral>that is all i am refering to
10:00<dihedral>and the patch merely changes that for servers
10:00<@petern>besides
10:00<@petern>the coding style sucks
10:00<+glx>use ap+ to manage the nick->client-id list
10:01<@Rubidium>the next step of your patch would be introducing the same thing to the client
10:01<dihedral>if you want that, i am happy to do that
10:01<@petern>also
10:01<@petern>it's not realistic
10:01<dihedral>you dont like trinary?
10:01<@petern>also
10:02<@petern>it's too realistic
10:02<DASPRiD>dihedral, trinary operator?
10:02<@petern>foo ? bar : baz
10:02<DASPRiD>yes
10:02<dihedral>strid = _network_server ? STR_NETWORK_SERVER_CLIENT_JOINED : STR_NETWORK_CLIENT_JOINED; break;
10:02<DASPRiD>i asked if you mean that :)
10:02<@petern>although usually ternary,...
10:02<DASPRiD>yeah well
10:02<DASPRiD>works both
10:02<dihedral>both works ;-)
10:03<DASPRiD>:>
10:03<dihedral>petern, what exactly in the code do you not like - code style can always be fixed
10:04<@petern>also
10:04<DASPRiD>i know it, the comments! :)
10:04<@petern>it's too big
10:05<dihedral>sure - you could append " (#{2:NUM})" to the end of the string already in english.txt
10:06<dihedral>however that would not allow it to be changed in translations
10:06<@petern>also
10:06<@petern>it's too small
10:06<@petern>ffs
10:06<@petern>also
10:06<@petern>also
10:06<dihedral>would you mind making sense?
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10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15831 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make sure house class/ID counters don't overflow
10:09<dihedral>* Belugas would guess it will be an admin stuff script to auto kick ban more easily <- scripts also send motd's to the client in private, so the other clients are not flooded with the motd each time a client joins
10:09<Brianetta>*yours* does (:
10:10<dihedral>mine only kicks those named "Player"
10:10<dihedral>but it also sends an motd just to the client
10:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15832 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: improve the aligning of right aligned/centered strings
10:11<dihedral><glx> use ap+ to manage the nick->client-id list <- ap+ does, however, a newly joined client needs to be looked up, as any other admin would have to do so too
10:16*Belugas thinks more nice and useful for all gameplay features should be loked at
10:18*dihedral prefers any admin related stuff ^^
10:19<@Belugas>hehe
10:20<@Belugas>that, we all arre aware of _^_
10:20<dihedral>:-P
10:20<@Belugas>which reminds me... how useful would be a kick ban admin by users vote feature ?
10:20<@Rubidium>yeah, I like that users can kick and ban the admin
10:21<dihedral>if you base number of votes on ip, it could work, but the 'badies' could team up and basically get most people banned from any game
10:21<dihedral>which kinda sucks
10:22<dihedral>if you run the 'voting' through something like ap+ you could exclude bans happening on certain users ^^
10:22<@Darkvater>vot kickban is never a good idea
10:23<@Rubidium>Darkvater: but vote kickbanning admins is
10:23<dihedral>:-P
10:23<@Darkvater>:)
10:24<dihedral>there was someone who had modified autopilot (the original) to include voting
10:24<dihedral>but you also had to identify first
10:25<dihedral>(private message to the server)
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10:31<@Darkvater>all in favour of kicking dihedral ?
10:31<@Rubidium>aye
10:33<Brianetta>"Please remove the template once the feature has been released in a stable version of the game"
10:33<Brianetta>Does this go for release candidates?
10:33<@Darkvater>templae?
10:33<Brianetta>In the wiki
10:33<@Rubidium>Brianetta: is a release candidate a stable release?
10:33<Brianetta>Possibly.
10:33<dihedral>....?
10:34<Brianetta>"currently only available in non-production releases"
10:34<Brianetta>Could also ask, is it a non-production release?
10:34<dihedral>Darkvater, dont kick me - i am just a poor person trying my best at helping where i can ;-)
10:37<@Darkvater>dihedral: just dhowing the power of vote :)
10:37<@Darkvater>I have no sch intentions
10:37<dihedral>i was joking also ^^ well not with the 'trying to help' part ^^
10:37<dihedral>i was engaging in the humor :-P
10:37<Brianetta>Vote-kick gets perfectly reasonable players, who play by the rules, kicked for being generally disliked.
10:38<Brianetta>Or even, for being good at the game.
10:39<Forked>racetrack: weird
10:39<dihedral>Rubidium, actually the next step i would go would be muting clients :-P
10:39<dihedral>and forbidding them to move themselves to another company :-P so when an admin moves a client to spectators they stay there until moved back by an admin ^^
10:41<Brianetta>High build costs, high interest rates, high running costs. You know what the real killer is?
10:41<Brianetta>Gradual loading.
10:41<Brianetta>Turn that off, everything suddenly gets profitable.
10:42<Brianetta>With it on, my services are slowed. Trains wait ages, hurting ratings at other stations and accruing full running costs.
10:43<dihedral>more realistic? :-P
10:43*dihedral hides
10:43<Brianetta>Unfortunately, yes
10:43<Brianetta>although it would be cool if I could have one loco and several rakes of coaches
10:43<Brianetta>It wouldn't have to stop moving
10:43<Brianetta>and passengers could take as long as they liked to stagger on board
10:44<Brianetta>Drop, run around, collect
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10:51<Brianetta>There's a town on my server called Fartfield.
10:51<@Darkvater>OH, obscenity!
10:51<Brianetta>This must mean that a town name atom is Fart
10:51<Brianetta>which is funny
10:51<Brianetta>we can expect more flatulence based settlements
10:52<@petern>//ReplaceWords("Fart", "Boot", buf);
10:52<@petern>i don't know why that's commented out, though
10:53<@petern>oh, that's changed
10:53<@petern>but it's still not done for the original name generator for some reason
10:53<@petern>anyway
10:54<@petern>the name parts are smaller than that
10:54<Brianetta>So could there potentially be a Penisford or something?
10:55<@petern>'fraid not
10:55<@petern>hmm, and no town starting with a vowel
10:55<@petern>no 'cester
10:56<Brianetta>Bollocks. Bankrupt on my own server.
10:56<Brianetta>The shame.
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11:09<@Belugas>All The Pigs, All Lined Up !!!!
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11:59<@petern># now tell me now now now all of it now
12:01-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
12:01<pavel1269>ello
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12:30<ngaba>Is it possible to say the exact specification of the "replace-to" vehicle?
12:31<ngaba>I mean, I want to replace mail transport ships to mail tr. ships
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12:33<+glx>so using same type?
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12:41<ngaba>glx, yes
12:42<ngaba>I guess the same "problem" appear, when I set "auto-replace old vehicles" option
12:42<+glx>use autorenew
12:43<ngaba>is this works there?
12:43<ngaba>In fact, I tried with 120 passanger vs. 200 passanger buses (newgrf)
12:43<+glx>did you run with breakdowns ?
12:44<ngaba>yes
12:45<ngaba>and openttd autorenewed my 200 p. bus to the 120 p. "type"
12:45<+glx>that's autoreplace :)
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12:46<ngaba>is this option in 0.6.3? ;-)
12:46<+glx>yes open vehicle list, it's in the manage list dropdown
12:47<ngaba>thx.
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12:52<ngaba>Can I turn off "local authority refuses"? (If yes, probably I can find it. I'm not on my machine.)
12:52<@Belugas>nope
12:53<@Belugas>there is no cheat, not setting, no nothing for it
12:53<pavel1269>i had a patch for this :-)
12:53*Belugas looks the other side
12:54<pavel1269>and in SP ... if you turn on magic buldozer, it should work, hmm?
12:55<@Belugas>pavel1269, if he needs to build a station, magic buldozer would not work ;)
12:56<pavel1269>okay then :-) wasnt really sure
12:56<ngaba>ok, then my "real" question is not invalid ;) :
12:56<@Belugas>?
12:56<pavel1269>but i know, if it is on, you can delete whole city and still place a station there
12:56<ngaba>When I destroy a busstation in the middle of the city,
12:58<ngaba>a T (or X) crossing appear.
12:58<ngaba>(on the road)
12:58<ngaba>so no new buildings will be build...
12:59<ngaba>(in the place of the old bus station)
13:00<ngaba>And I cannot destroy the (old) entrance (half) road.
13:00<+glx>just plant trees to increase your rating
13:00<+glx>use the remove road tool
13:01<ngaba>local authority refuses ;-)
13:01<@Belugas>plant more trees :)
13:01<ngaba>btw, when I bribe the authority they may not allow to build a bus station :-P
13:01<@petern>remember to use the bulldozer, not the dynamite
13:02<@Belugas>your bribery may fail
13:02<ngaba>oh, thx. one more thing I learnt here today ;-)
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13:28<Carved>is their any possibility to change some patch options in a save game?
13:29<planetmaker>yes
13:29<Carved>i missed to check building more then one industrie in a town, can i change that in game or when i save this game
13:29<planetmaker>load it in single player, change them and save again
13:29<Carved>thanks :-)
13:30<planetmaker>there are a few options it cannot work with, though. The one you mentioned isn't one of those.
13:31<Brianetta>Any reason why all the subsidies offered in my game are and have been for passengers
13:32-!-mikl [~mikl@95.209.234.29.bredband.3.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl]
13:32<@Rubidium>all industries are serviced?
13:33<+glx>distance between industries >70 ?
13:34<planetmaker>that's the limit? wow...
13:34<el_en>done watching Star Trek Voyager [x]
13:34<planetmaker>I learnt something new :)
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13:36<pavel1269>server move? hmm
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13:37<planetmaker>hm?
13:37<pavel1269>forums?
13:37<@Rubidium>yup, wrong time for a server move
13:38<@Rubidium>better do it Wednesday of next week
13:38<planetmaker>hm?
13:39<planetmaker>anything special then except the date?
13:40<+glx>or it always find a valid passenger route
13:40<@Rubidium>not really, but it makes for a nice gossip
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13:41<el_en>english.only
13:41<otih>hi, when will 0.7.0 be released?
13:42<@Belugas>right on time!
13:42<planetmaker>hehe gossipping :)
13:42<Prof_Frink>otih: Some time between now and never.
13:42<@orudge>[17:37:56] <Rubidium> yup, wrong time for a server move <-- it won't take long
13:42<planetmaker>or... when it's done
13:42<@orudge>all the data is rsynced
13:42<@orudge>just need to do the databases
13:42<@orudge>and then the site should be up in theory within the hour
13:42<Sacro>orudge: froums are down
13:42<@orudge>(plus a reverse proxy on the old server while DNS updates)
13:43<otih>Prof_Frink: perfect, you said something ;) but you are involved?
13:43<Sacro>fixitfixitfixitfixit
13:43<Hendikins>Ack, the one thing I hate about ottd... looking at the clock and wondering where those hours went.
13:43<@orudge>I am waiting for the sql to compress
13:43<Sacro>frink is always involved
13:43<@orudge>were this on the new server, it'd be even quicker!
13:43<Sacro>orudge: well move it to the new one and compress it
13:43<@orudge>maybe I'll ungzip and re-gzip it on the new server
13:43<@Rubidium>Hendikins: that's not an OTTD problem; I've had it much worse with TTDP
13:44<@Belugas>[13:45] <otih> Prof_Frink: perfect, you said something ;) but you are involved? <-- he's involved deeply in madness
13:44<@Belugas>otih, may i ask wht you ask?
13:44<Sacro>he's lovestruck, he's fallen for a lamppost
13:44<otih>i ask for 0.7.0 releasedate, because i wanna bump version in gentoo ;)
13:45<Hendikins>Rubidium: Either way, it is 4:45am, and I have to be up for work by 12 noon.
13:45<@Rubidium>otih: are you that deep into Gentoo that you can actually bump the version, or would it be that you'd be supplying a patch?
13:45<Hendikins>So I'd better call it a day before it eats too much in to my sleep time
13:46<otih>Rubidium: i dont have cvs writeaccess .... but i can also bump!
13:47<@Rubidium>otih: last time we 'tried' to bump it it took only half a year
13:47-!-Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|ZzZ
13:47<@Rubidium>and that was when we released a bugfix release that fixed a remote exploit in OpenTTD's server
13:48<otih>oh shit ;) i will bump it faster!
13:48<@Rubidium>and then there's the general case of Gentoo providing wrong information
13:48<otih>any idea for releasedate?
13:49<SmatZ>and using EAPI2 for no apparent reason
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13:50<SmatZ>if the intention wasn't to force moving partage supporting EAPI2 to stable :-P
13:51<SmatZ>because the gentoo stuff loves OTTD
13:51<SmatZ>but I doubt ;)
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13:54<@Rubidium>anyhow, it'll be released when we feel it's ready. I know that's not a date. I'll happily give you a date when it's released though ;)
13:54<@orudge>It'll most probably be released before Christmas, though. :p
13:55<@Rubidium>yup and so will TTDP 2.5 ;)
13:55<otih>Rubidium: perfect ;)
13:55<@orudge>ah, yes, TTDPatch 2.5...
13:56<@orudge>it'll probably be out about the same time as Duke Nukem Forever
13:56<@petern>dbg: [misc] Nested widgets give different results
13:57<@petern>pom
13:57<@orudge>those dratted poms
13:57<@petern>disgusting i tell you
13:58<@petern>ah, on the multiplayer window
13:58<@orudge>a multiplayer window, eh? disgusting
13:58<SmatZ>indeed
13:58<@petern>so, er, yeah, why was WWT_DROPDOWNIN removed? :(
13:58<@petern>"Game Options" looks so silly now!
13:59<SmatZ>indeed
14:00<planetmaker>ingo$ hg pull -u
14:00<planetmaker>abort: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error
14:00<planetmaker>for trunk
14:00<@petern>yes well
14:00<@petern>cherokee is obviously not as good as truebrain thought
14:00<@petern>(OR SOME OTHER CRAP)
14:01<planetmaker>he :(
14:01<@petern>hmm, can metacity vsync, i wonder...
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14:08<el_en>if i spot a sentence like "What about the other Vulcan's on board?" in DVD subtitling, what should i think?
14:11<@petern>you should think "why am i watching star trek?"
14:11<@petern>(or whatever series had vulcans)
14:11<@petern>((sorry, vulcan's))
14:12<@Rubidium>'star trek and derivative's have vulcan's
14:13<el_en>the reason is simple. openttd games take days, a star trek episode takes only 43 minutes.
14:14<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: I'd like to buy some apples.
14:15<@Rubidium>I'm not selling ;)
14:15<SpComb>orudge: live replication!
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14:23<@Belugas>#This isn't meant to last!
14:23<@Belugas>#This is FOR RIGHT NOW
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14:29<@petern># we love you any how
14:29<@petern># but you're not so pretty now
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14:34<Noldo>wwhat?
14:35<Ammler>WP signs look like usual signs, is that indented?
14:36<SmatZ>it's intended by Yexo :)
14:36<Ammler>quite confusing :-)
14:37<Ammler>need an old build to check, why the old signs are that bad.
14:37<Noldo>WP signs?
14:38<SmatZ>all have the same colour
14:38<SmatZ>they are distinguishable now
14:39<Ammler>but it would be better, if they look like stations signs.
14:39<Ammler>(imo)
14:39*Belugas though it was macro WP, for windows pointer :D
14:39<SmatZ>:o)
14:40<@Belugas>old times, where windows were simpler :D
14:40<SmatZ>hehehe
14:40<Ammler>afaik, you don't like macros ;-)
14:40<Ammler>no idea, what they are, just read sometimes here...
14:41<Ammler>I see, they had the same time for all companies
14:42<@Belugas>what they WERE, Ammler
14:42<Ammler>color*
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14:42<Ammler>I see, Belugas :-)
14:43<Ammler>another reason, not using them..., Thraxian....
14:48-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejh36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
14:50<nicfer>does anyone know if there's a server that uses scores companies by their score and value?
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14:53<@Belugas>nicfer, i guess you could look at Kludge
14:54<@Belugas>hem...
14:54<@Belugas>Krunch?
14:54<@Belugas>..
14:54<@Belugas>Knap?
14:54<@Belugas>something with a K
14:54<@Belugas>Klaus?
14:54<@petern>kurt's
14:54<@Belugas>:D
14:54<@Belugas>yeah!
14:54<@Belugas>that one
15:01<@orudge>forums back
15:02<frosch123>damn, it could have been such a lovely evening
15:02<Ammler>did you change the backup time? :-)
15:04<@petern># it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to
15:04<@orudge>Ammler: nope
15:04<@orudge>but it should be a lot quicker now
15:05<Ammler>well, it is a good reminder to shutdown the pc.
15:06<@petern>i never noticed it being slow before...
15:06<@petern>however
15:06<@petern>i am but a lowly user
15:06<@orudge>the forums weren't particularly slow before
15:07<@orudge>indeed, they were quite snappy
15:07<@orudge>they shall be moreso now
15:07<@petern># now
15:07<@petern># you know
15:07<@petern># this is what it feels like
15:08*petern fires up his RC2
15:10<@Belugas>i see it faster a bit, orudge
15:10<@Belugas>orudge, there is still a big problem on the forums
15:10<@Belugas>forums are crawling with pure idiots!
15:11<@orudge>technically, you may see the forum slightly slower, as it's being proxied through the old server until the DNS updates
15:11<@orudge>and yes
15:11<@Belugas>damned... i don't have that CD in here :S
15:11<@orudge>that's a problem that new hardware won't fix alas
15:13<@Belugas>alas...
15:13<@Belugas>a thousand times alas
15:13<Prof_Frink>orudge: Not entirely true.
15:13<Prof_Frink>Depends on the new hardware.
15:14-!-stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14<@orudge>Prof_Frink: alas, it's not a hammer
15:15<Prof_Frink>I was thinking orbiting laser.
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15:15<@orudge>Prof_Frink: hmm, that might work
15:17-!-Timitry [~Tim@p5B37DD84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:17<@Belugas>lauch a funding campaign! PLEASE!!!
15:17<@Belugas>launch
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15:50<Timitry>Belugas: What for?
15:52<@Belugas>[15:17] <Prof_Frink> I was thinking orbiting laser.
15:52<@Belugas>[15:17] <@orudge> Prof_Frink: hmm, that might work
15:52<Timitry>Whatever that might be...
15:52<@Belugas>in regards of
15:52<@Belugas>[15:12] <@Belugas> orudge, there is still a big problem on the forums
15:52<@Belugas>[15:12] <@Belugas> forums are crawling with pure idiots!
15:52<@orudge>quite
15:55<pavel1269>oh, i hope you dont mean at least anyone here at IRC :-)
15:57-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:57<pavel1269>prolly you just come across topics "HELP" or "Is this patch still being worked on" :-)
15:57*Belugas refuses to talk, on the advice of his lawyer
15:57<yorick>the _command_proc_table enum has no name?
15:58<@Belugas>ike a horse with no name
15:58<el_en>does it has a bucket
15:58<planetmaker>the unspeakables
15:58<pavel1269>it nice, and wild? :-)
15:58<Prof_Frink>Or a mouse with no name.
15:58<pavel1269>*its
15:59<@Belugas> :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Horse_with_No_Name :D
15:59<pavel1269>:-D
16:00-!-goodger [~ben@host81-152-233-98.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:00<pavel1269>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkIKedRw92o
16:02<@petern>america :D
16:05<@petern>(good song that)
16:07<@Belugas>yeah :D
16:07<@Belugas>beside a fire , on a nice summer evening, and a few beers-bottles of rhum-cigars-<else>...
16:08<@Belugas>and of course, full of guitars!
16:08<@Belugas>one chord... not hard to teach ;)
16:11<@Belugas>ok ok.. two...
16:11<pavel1269>dow do i apply a patch with format "+++ train_cmd.cpp (working copy)"
16:11<pavel1269>-p-1 ? :-P
16:12<frosch123>cd src; patch -p 0 -i blabla.diff
16:12<pavel1269>-p0 dont work, since there is missing src/
16:13<frosch123>look more closely
16:13*pavel1269 hitted his screen
16:14<pavel1269>okay, gonna copy patch to src folder .-/
16:14<Sacro>you don't need to copy it
16:14<pavel1269>-p0 -i ../ ?
16:14<Sacro>yup
16:15<pavel1269>sorry, it late and my brain is already sleeping :-)
16:15<pavel1269>úits
16:15<pavel1269>**
16:15<pavel1269>my hands also :-D
16:16<frosch123>or "sed -i 's/^[+-]\{3\} /&src\//' blabla.diff"
16:17<pavel1269>what? :-)
16:17<pavel1269>i prefer "-i ../*.patch"
16:18<@Belugas># it's good to warm my bones beside the fire
16:20<Ammler>or ask the patch writer to make a proper patch so the next one will match too...
16:24<KenjiE20>okay, can someone tell me if this would do what I think it would, and seperate vehicle advice and 'train is lost' into seperate news items?
16:24<KenjiE20>http://paste.openttd.org/180800
16:26<pavel1269>looks like, try it?
16:26<KenjiE20>BuildOTTD won't run on this pc for some reason
16:27<Ammler>SmatZyPatchy goes famous ;-)
16:27<planetmaker>KenjiE20: get MSVC or minigw :)
16:27<KenjiE20>I would, if I had the foggiest where to start :P
16:27<pavel1269>Ammler: true, and its freaking old :-)
16:27<planetmaker>KenjiE20: download ;)
16:27<@Rubidium>the question is who cares enough about buildottd to fix it
16:28<KenjiE20>BOTTD is installed, just 404's though
16:28<taisteluorava>nice, forums have no any delay now
16:28<KenjiE20>If I knew how to compile with what it's installed I would
16:28<@Rubidium>it assumes an undocumented feature of the old compile farm
16:29<Ammler>KenjiE20: bottd is at sourceforge, afaik
16:29-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:29<KenjiE20>yea, I got rc1
16:29<KenjiE20>just dunno how to do what it automates
16:29<Ammler>I meant, you can get the source ;-)
16:31<+glx>KenjiE20: then you have mingw/msys installed :)
16:31<KenjiE20>heh, that I gathered
16:31<+glx>it's somewhere in buildottd install
16:31<KenjiE20>yep: c:\buildottd\mingw
16:32<+glx>locate msys.bet
16:32<+glx>.bat
16:32<KenjiE20>yea
16:32<+glx>then you can use svn to get the sources
16:32<KenjiE20>I already used tourtoise to get them :P
16:33<KenjiE20>-u
16:33<+glx>good, so start msys
16:33<+glx>cd to the sources
16:33<+glx>./configure
16:33<+glx>make
16:33<KenjiE20>ah, cool, so once that's running, it's *nix like?
16:34<+glx>yes
16:34<KenjiE20>cool
16:34*KenjiE20 gives it a go
16:34<+glx>c:\bla is replaced with /c/bla
16:35-!-Yexo_ [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
16:36<svip>Not really, glx.
16:36<svip>The concept of drives does not exist in UNIX.
16:37-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:37<KenjiE20>meh, I just copied my editted trunk into the newly made /home
16:37<+glx>does it have space in path?
16:38<KenjiE20>nope, as far as mingw is concerned it's compiling in /home/Kenji/trunk
16:38<+glx>good
16:38<+glx>space in path is not supported ;)
16:38<KenjiE20>heh
16:39<KenjiE20>good ol' PROGRA~1
16:42-!-Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:42<KenjiE20>cool, it loads a save fine
16:42<KenjiE20>no to try making a lost train :)
16:42-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
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16:44<KenjiE20>cool, it works
16:45<KenjiE20>although I get a flashing red circle on the news bar, I've not seen that, but I'm assuming that's cause I've set advice to off, which I don't normally do
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16:50<@Belugas>and... may i?
16:50<@Belugas>ho yes I do dare!!
16:50<@Belugas>RUN HOME!!
16:50<@Belugas>night all :D
16:50<SmatZ>nnn Belugas
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17:08<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:08<planetmaker>night Belugas
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17:12<nicfer>kurt's scoring system doesn't involve company score
17:16<nicfer>I'm thinking on a virtual score that's measured as cv * cs /1000000
17:16<nicfer>cv = company value, cs = company score
17:16<Yexo>both company value and companuy score are fundamentally flawed currenlty
17:16-!-RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-104.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd
17:17<nicfer>there are other factors that affect cs
17:17<nicfer>like, amount of stations
17:18<Yexo>I can get a company value of 3 million or even a bit more with the initial 500k loan with just building stations
17:20-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd
17:20<@petern>yexo! why did you remove dropdownin?
17:20<Yexo>removing code size, since it was only used at a few places
17:20<@petern>:(
17:20<@petern>well
17:20<@petern>i don't use subsidies
17:20<@petern>i should remove that :o
17:21<Yexo>if you write a replacement for it, I don't care :p
17:21<@petern>wow
17:21<Yexo>what's the problem, you don't like the new look of the game options window?
17:22<@petern>but you removed a whole... 10 lines or so
17:22<@petern>i don't think that's a valid reason to remove something
17:22<@petern>hell no
17:23*SmatZ has the same opinion - but it doesn't mean I won't get used to it over time...
17:24-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:25<Yexo>if you really think it's that bad I can always revert it
17:25<Yexo>but maybe a redesign of that window is better in that case, ie changing it to share colors with either the newgame window or the difficulty/advanced/newgrf/ai settings windows
17:26*SmatZ agrees
17:26<SmatZ>but then, the tree structure isn't very fine for the Game Settings window
17:27<SmatZ>(maybe the Advanced Settings window could be a bit "tuned", too ;)
17:27<@petern>advanced settings is damned ugly now
17:27<planetmaker>Yexo: if there's going to be a re-design, all three, advanced settings, game options and new game window need concurrent review
17:27<@petern>(since the tree)
17:27<@petern>like
17:28<@petern>partial shadow on the -/+ graphic
17:28<Yexo>planetmaker: I agree
17:28<@petern>and the default minimized state is... bleh
17:28*SmatZ agrees with all of you!
17:28<planetmaker>:D
17:29-!-mib_yt62aw [5217cbc4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:29<Yexo>but since we're now in the progress of moving the windows to the new widget system, I think we should do that first and redesign after that
17:29<Yexo>one thing at a time
17:29<planetmaker>sure
17:29<planetmaker>and it's anything but urgent :)
17:30<@petern>blah, overruns :o
17:30<planetmaker>it's not like people aren't used to the current system - if one can call it this way :P
17:33-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEa113.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
17:36<mib_yt62aw>Hi, may I ask a question about using signals here?
17:36<SmatZ>hello mib_yt62aw, you may ask a question without asking :)
17:36<mib_yt62aw>Hehe, very well. :)
17:37<mib_yt62aw>I'm trying to work out what signals would be needed to get a situation shown in the image below working.
17:37<mib_yt62aw>http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/778/prunwichtransport20thfe.png
17:38<mib_yt62aw>Two trains share the station, but not a piece of track, they run into either end of the station, yet when they are moving in together one appears to divert into the depot?
17:38<energetic>how do you mean "working"
17:38-!-Thraxian|Work [user@rrcs-24-199-209-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd
17:38<Nite_Owl>block or pbs
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17:39<Thraxian|Work>Is it ok to report a minor GUI bug here, or would you prefer I submit via the bugs website?
17:39<mib_yt62aw>Nite_Owl: You mean place the normal block signal at both ends of the station?
17:40<energetic>I found something which i am not sure is intended behaviour or a bug
17:40<Nite_Owl>no - which type of signals do you want to use
17:40<SmatZ>Thraxian|Work: verify it in current trunk, check it is not already reported, and post it to bugs.openttd.org :) I think nobody is going to solve that now :-x
17:40<mib_yt62aw>I'm not sure - whichever will work best. :)
17:40<Thraxian|Work>Thanks, SmatZ
17:40<@petern>mib_yt62aw, in 0.6.3 you can't with YAPF
17:40<@petern>because the author declared it silly for some reason
17:41<Nite_Owl>what version of the game are you using
17:42<energetic>when joining stations of a different types (bus+rail) atll station tiles get the same catchment area
17:42<mib_yt62aw>Latest stable release.
17:43<Nite_Owl>0.6.3 = no PBS - block signals then
17:43<energetic>the catchment area of the biggest tile (station: 4, so bus stops get an extra tile)
17:43<SmatZ>energetic: by design :)
17:43<Nite_Owl>no matter what you do one of your trains is going into a depot
17:44<mib_yt62aw>Yes.
17:44<@petern>remove the depots ;)
17:44<@petern>turn it into a ro-ro
17:44<energetic>Smatz: why? ease of devving or does it have a deppeer thought?
17:44<@petern>or use RC2 with PBS
17:44<energetic>*deeper*
17:44<pavel1269>gn
17:44<SmatZ>energetic: the former
17:44-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Pohodlné vykecávání. Odkudkoliv.]
17:44<@petern>ease of cpu usage
17:44<mib_yt62aw>petern: Ehm... Yeah, that will stop them. ;)
17:44<Nite_Owl>that was not a question - it was a statement - there is no way around it with that design
17:45<mib_yt62aw>Ah, okay. Thank you anyway. :)
17:45<@petern>well
17:45<@petern>you could switch to NPF
17:45<@petern>that would work
17:46<@petern>maybe we should fix that bug
17:46<mib_yt62aw>My apologies, what is NPF?
17:46<@petern>because it is a bug imho
17:46<@petern>different pathfdiner
17:46<@petern>finder
17:46<Nite_Owl>there is no place for the trains to pass one another if the are headed in opposite directions
17:46<energetic>so instead of a grid catchment, its just making a big rectangle based on position & biggest catchment
17:47<mib_yt62aw>petern: Ah yes, thank you. I have it now; I shall give that a go.
17:47<mib_yt62aw>Nite_Owl & petern: Thanks for your time, much appreciated. :)
17:47<Nite_Owl>always happy to help
17:49<SmatZ>energetic: yes, smallest rectangle that fits all station tiles + largest catchment area of all station parts
17:51<@petern>along with distant-join stations you get a great 'legalised' exploit :p
17:52<Nite_Owl>suppose you had an 11 tile station with the bus stop in the middle (6th tile) would you then get an irregular shaped rectangle i.e. with a bulge in the middle
17:52<energetic>ptern: that depends on the station size
17:53<@petern>no it doesn't
17:54<@petern>you can cover a town quite easily with 2 bus stops
17:54<Nite_Owl>in other words the 4 tile catchment area would not extend the full length of the train station but only 4 tiles out from the bulge created by the bus stop
17:55-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db07035.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: bis dann]
17:55<planetmaker>dbg: [net] recv failed with error 54 <-- what does that mean? (Just curious)
17:55<Nite_Owl>clear as mud but hopefully understood
17:56<energetic>yes. But joining a big airport would make things different
17:56<@Rubidium>planetmaker: check your errno.h
17:56*planetmaker will look. Thx Rubidium
17:59<planetmaker>uhm... I don't have such file...
17:59<@Rubidium>then how do you compile?
18:00<@petern>54 is... "Exchange full"
18:00<@petern>um
18:00<@Rubidium>google will tell either connection reset or exchange full
18:00<Spoons>ERROR_NETWORK_BUSY on Windows.
18:00<planetmaker>Rubidium: probably using my magic wand and telling it to make openttd ;)
18:00-!-Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
18:00<planetmaker>petern: thanks :)
18:02<planetmaker>Rubidium: I thought you meant a file which is part of OpenTTD :)
18:02<energetic>where can i find the list of colors (colours for UK ppl here) openttd uses for companies? I mean the literal names.
18:02<@Rubidium>on osx it's connection reset by peer
18:02<@Rubidium>planetmaker: no, it's part of your OS you silly...
18:02<@Rubidium>otherwise we would've told you what the error is exactly
18:02<@Rubidium>instead of giving some magic number
18:03<planetmaker>he :)
18:03<@Rubidium>anyhow /System/Library/Frameworks/Kernel.framework/Versions/A/Headers/sys/errno.h
18:03<planetmaker>makes sense :)
18:04<planetmaker>and thank you, too :)
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18:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15833 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: alignment of up/down arrows and closebox when in RTL 'view'
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18:23<Ammler>@ports
18:23<@DorpsGek>Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
18:23<Ammler>@port
18:23<@DorpsGek>Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
18:23<Ammler>oh :-$
18:23<Ammler>does the content server use another port?
18:24<@Rubidium>no, it uses the masterserver port but via tcp
18:24<Ammler>3978?
18:30<Ammler>he, I really configured the fw only using 78 for UDP :-)
18:31<@Rubidium>so you're blocking your outgoing connections?
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18:32<Ammler>well, it is a default setting of the vps
18:32<Ammler>I just added exceptions.
18:32<Ammler>ports >1024 are blocked
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18:36<Ammler>I don't get it really ;-)
18:37<@petern>hmm
18:37<@petern>cherry tictacs are odd
18:37<Ammler>still no connection, disable the fw completly now
18:43<energetic>Is there any (creative) solution in people having DHCP (dynamic IP) and keep coming back and spoil the game?
18:44<+glx>password
18:44<Sacro>whitelist
18:44<Yexo>ip range ban
18:45<Ammler>energetic: maybe they don't know of the "unique id" ;-)
18:46<Ammler>Yexo: does openttd support that?
18:46<Yexo>since a while, yes
18:46<Nite_Owl>lemon - lime Tic Tacs are even odder
18:46<Ammler>he
18:46<@Rubidium>maybe it doesn't on OSX
18:46<energetic>Yes, that is what I will builtin for people who dont know it. But for DHCP people knowing the networkID?
18:46<Ammler>let me read the docs again...
18:47<Ammler>Yexo: how is the syntax?
18:47<Sacro>vim /etc/hosts.deny
18:47<Yexo>Ammler: I don't know, sorry
18:48<Ammler>console help doesn't show it either...
18:49<Ammler>Sacro: not everyone does run openttd as root ;-)
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19:06<eMjay88>morning all
19:08<Yexo>Ammler: a bit late, but anyway: Feature: Add support for IP range bans using CIDR notation (r15094)
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19:10<Ammler>yexo, very thanks :-)
19:10<Ammler>much ^
19:11<energetic>nice one.
19:12<Ammler>so a ban with /8 should work :-)
19:12<eMjay88>hahaha
19:13<Ammler>hmm, not sure, does a ban in openttd also kick?
19:13<Yexo>iirc yes
19:16<energetic>A ban prevents players from joining in the first place, how can it kick?
19:16<energetic>ah, you mean the ban command kicks a player after using it...?
19:17<Yexo>when you ban an active player, he is also kicked
19:24<Ammler>energetic: like a kban in irc
19:25<SmatZ>ban IP kicks player(s) using that IP
19:25<SmatZ>but I think it doesn't apply to ip-range bans
19:25<SmatZ>one of things I wanted to change, but haven't done so yet :-x
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20:16<Ammler>nightnight hard workers...
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20:33<powell>hey guys
20:33<eMjay88>hey hey
20:33<powell>guess what?
20:34<powell>GOD DOESNT EXIST
20:34<eMjay88>I know right?
20:34<powell>jesus was a fag
20:34<powell>amiright?
20:34<eMjay88>if he even existed :P
20:34<powell>yea
20:34<powell>fucking islam
20:35<powell>is pretty gay amiright?
20:35<powell>same with judeaism
20:35<powell>stupid jews
20:35<eMjay88>islam is no worse than christianity, judaeism etc
20:35<Yexo>powell: please watch your language
20:35<powell>:(
20:35<powell>VExo
20:35<powell>your a dirty NIGGER
20:35<Yexo>@kban powell
20:35-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~apowell@cpe-024-162-243-234.nc.res.rr.com] by DorpsGek
20:35-!-powell was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Yexo]
20:36<eMjay88>lol
20:36<@Rubidium>don't mess with the Yexo
20:36<eMjay88>I'm fairly sure powell was trolling anyway :P
20:36<Yexo>I'd have done the same if he said that about anybody else
20:36<+glx>probably a hidden chimpout guy
20:39<@Rubidium>the irony is that Powell is well...
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20:55<Sacro>hehe
20:58<FauxFaux>It's "you're", retard, and that's not a common contraction.
21:11<energetic>I am sorry for those ppl
21:20<svip>Jesus most likely existed, eMjay88, but his actual doings may have been exaggerated in the Bible.
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21:27<eMjay88>svip: yes, most likely on both counts :)
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22:15<@Belugas>jesus existed? of course he did. jesus was (and still is) a very commun name.
22:16<@Belugas>so plenty of jesus in the universe alright
22:17<@Belugas>grrr... i'm so accustomed to have two screens at work...
22:18<@Belugas>now, at home, i've got my normal screen, plus a laptop opened. and i'm a bit surprised that my mouse form the screen of the right does not travel to the screen to the left :S
22:20<Aali>so make it
22:20<Aali>my mouse is not connected to this laptop
22:21<Aali>and still it moves between it and my desktop just fine :)
22:27<eMjay88>Belugas: google: synergy mouse
22:29<eMjay88>Aali: is that what you use?
22:30<Aali>synergy? yes
22:32<@Belugas>well... i cannot use that mouse. my cat is too big for that :D
22:32-!-magnum34r [~magnum34r@d2-150.rb.gh.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd
22:33<@Belugas>but. i'm reading and it seems very interesting :D
22:34<magnum34r>ok, who here has a psp?
22:34<Aali>just don't try to link up a windows machine with anything
22:35<Aali>even using the latest beta with some additional fixes for windows stupidity, its still not working 100%
22:36<magnum34r>does any1 here play openttd 4 the psp?
22:36<@Belugas>any one
22:36<@Belugas>please
22:36<@Belugas>and it's not 4
22:36<Aali>no but we do play proper english on IRC
22:36<@Belugas>it's for
22:36<@Belugas>thanks
22:37<@Belugas>understood, Aali. I'll give it a try sometimes
22:37-!-magnum34r [~magnum34r@d2-150.rb.gh.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
22:37<@Belugas>magnum34r, the vast majority of us are pc-users.
22:37<@Belugas>yeah:D
22:39<Aali>another one bites the dust
22:39<Aali>heh
22:39<@Belugas>yeah >:)
22:39<@Belugas>i hate those clowns
22:39<Aali>who doesn't?
22:40<@Belugas>yo man. wazup
22:40<@Belugas>buttheads
22:40<@Belugas>Aali, obviously, those from the same tribes :D
22:41<@Belugas>eMjay88, i tried all day to find the difference with the FS and your interpretation of it, in regards to what is in trunk
22:41<@Belugas>i'm still... puzzled
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22:45<eMjay88>first, let me thank you for your time
22:45<eMjay88>what is your interpretation of it so far?
22:46<@Belugas>hem... that he wanted to be able to specify a certain % of load before leaving to the next order
22:46<@Belugas>i think
22:46<eMjay88>yep, thats what I though
22:46<eMjay88>thought*
22:47<eMjay88>is that in trunk already?
22:47<@Belugas>that i'm insane? yes, thanks :) they all say that!
22:47<@Belugas>i really do think it's in trunk alright :D
22:48<@Belugas>and it's even in 0.7 betas/rcs too
22:48<eMjay88>What happened yesterday was that I thought I'd have a look and see if it was there
22:48<eMjay88>and I saw that enum that looked like it was related to a percentage of loading
22:49<Aali>actually
22:49<eMjay88>so I asked if it had been implemented, and then thought that perhaps that was part of the conditional command "goto stationX if less than x% load"
22:49<eMjay88>and this is where the confusion arose :P
22:49<Aali>I think he wants vehicles to leave instantly after X% load even if there's more cargo waiting
22:50<Aali>which is not possible currently
22:50<Tefad>why do that? why not reduce size of train
22:50<Aali>you can skip an order based on load, but once the vehicle is in the station, it will take all the cargo it can
22:50<eMjay88>maybe you have 3 suppliers on one train line?
22:50<Tefad>reusing train from other run?
22:51<Aali>personally, I think it's a very un-important feature :P
22:51<@Belugas>well... if it's the case, i guess he would ask to reopen the feature request. if ever he cares, since it's an year old one
22:51<@Belugas>i agree Aali
22:52<eMjay88>in my interpretation it was "load until at least x%"
22:52<@Belugas>and the chances of it been implemented like he want are really really really really reallr..... small
22:52<eMjay88>so if you have a really big train and not much supply you might order it to wait until it was 50% loaded
22:53<@Belugas>eMjay88, it does not change bu not much, don't you think?
22:53<eMjay88>yes
22:53<eMjay88>it does not change much :P
22:53<@Belugas>it's alomost a rethoric difference
22:53<eMjay88>since the train costs you while running you may as well transport as much as you can when you can
22:54<@Belugas>mmh... kde on my ubuntu install... let see
22:54<@Belugas>costs? yu think it was all about costs???
22:54<@Belugas>you
22:54<@Belugas>sorry
22:57<eMjay88>I mean running costs of the train
22:57<eMjay88>don't they still apply while the train is loading?
22:57<Aali>depends on the train set
22:57<eMjay88>default?
22:57<@Belugas>not sure. i think defaults are always applying
22:57<Aali>default trains don't do any newgrf trickery, obviously :)
22:58<Aali>but 2cc for example lowers running costs alot when speed == 0
22:58<@Belugas>i guess i should play more often... only time i do, it's with my son, nowaday
23:02<eMjay88>so if running costs still apply, waiting for a full (or partial) load is a waste of money
23:04<@Belugas>but... but... we need to have money pumps!
23:04<@Belugas>either way, having a full train waiting to be loaded at a station is totlly unrealistic
23:04<@Belugas>so it's very nice the way it is :D
23:05<@Belugas>so it's a bit useless to cry for a few bucks been laid out during load.
23:05<@Belugas>PLUS!
23:05<@Belugas>if you do not pay for the train controler, you have to play for the loading crew!
23:05<@Belugas>and in real life, they do use some locomotove
23:05<@Belugas>so...
23:06<@Belugas>i guess it's pretty close to real life
23:06<@Belugas>fuck... it's sad
23:07<eMjay88>hahaha
23:07<eMjay88>Belugas: see topic
23:07<eMjay88>:P
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23:10<@Belugas>hum?
23:10<eMjay88>"Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence" :P
23:11<@Belugas>hey... when it's me, it's allowed! I'm The unrealism master mind!
23:11<eMjay88>I have noticed that
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23:13<@Belugas>hehe
23:14<@Belugas>so...
23:14<@Belugas>good night
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23:14<eMjay88>good night Belugas :)
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 24 00:00:27 2009