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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-27

---Logopened Fri Mar 27 00:00:19 2009
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00:08<goodger>>.<
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02:37<dihedral>morning
02:37<goodger>morning dihedral
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03:53<planetmaker>good morning
03:54<Pikka>goodbye! D:
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04:00<dihedral>\o/ a planetmaker ^^
04:00<dihedral>make us another earth
04:00<dihedral>one that is not full of garbage
04:00<dihedral>and hurry
04:00<dihedral>and ... ^^
04:00<planetmaker>dihedral: it was destroyed... making place for a galactic highway :(
04:01<dihedral>stupid mice
04:01<@petern>always happens
04:01-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm204.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: OH NOO]
04:02<dihedral>^ can we not remove the Singa ^^
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04:02<dihedral>^ and here s/Com/Peer/ :-P
04:03<@petern>...
04:03<dihedral><- has a happy-day today
04:03<@petern>you can't remove him, he just left
04:03<dihedral>dont ask me why - probably must a bit too tired
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04:07<goodger>planetmaker: however, the recent invention of the Infinite Improbability Drive made all hyperspace bypasses obsolete. DUN DUN DUHHHHH!
04:08<goodger>dihedral: you do seem particularly hyperactive today
04:08<planetmaker>which will give a huge boost to the coffee industry...
04:09<goodger>nah, dihedral _waking up_ gives a huge boost to the coffee industry
04:09<dihedral>me being hyperactive will give a boost to the coffee industry?
04:09<dihedral>^^
04:09<dihedral>pffft
04:09<dihedral>what i need, is a cup of tea ^^
04:09<dihedral>and a towl
04:09<goodger>a towel!
04:10<dihedral>yes that
04:10<goodger>what a frood you are ~
04:10<goodger>how very hoopy.
04:10<dihedral>hoppy
04:10<dihedral>^^
04:11<goodger>you are hopping, perhaps
04:12<@petern>has orudge actually read it yet?
04:12<@petern>orudge lad!
04:13<Sacro_>goodger: are you calling another male a hoopy frood?
04:13<Sacro_>well at least you've not mentioned sassing him
04:13<goodger>Sacro_: although I am gay, I don't believe "hoopy" or "frood" mean sexually attractive. only "sass" was mentioned to mean "have sex with"
04:13<Sacro_>well, meet/be attracted to/have sex with
04:14<goodger>know, be aware of, have sex with
04:14<Sacro_>you are gay? :o
04:14<goodger>yes, aren't you?
04:14<Sacro_>no
04:14<Sacro_>:(
04:14<goodger>^ standard response
04:14<Sacro_>^ also standard response
04:14<goodger>XD
04:15<goodger>I wore a suit clumsily constructed from a shirt, tie, formal trousers, blazer and oxford shoes to college recently, just to irritate the staff; people asked me "why are you wearing a suit?"; I'd reply "why aren't you?"
04:16<goodger>that shut them up quite neatly
04:16<Sacro_>hmm, 450 words, not bad
04:16<Sacro_>i might suit up for uni
04:16<goodger>petern: has owen read what?
04:16<@petern>hhgttg
04:16<goodger>ah...
04:17<@petern>i admit, it is quite inconceivable that someone hasn't
04:17<goodger>yep
04:17<goodger>Sacro_: it irritates the hell out of senior staff members who use it as a status symbol
04:18<@petern>i haven't ever worn a suit
04:19<Sacro_>lol
04:19<goodger>wait... why did you :( when asked if you were gay? are you dissatisfied with heterosexuality?
04:19*Forked gets the popcorn
04:19<goodger>a fitted suit is, in theory, the most comfortable clothing a person can wear; it keeps the spine in place, for one thing
04:19<@petern>it's just a joke, Sacro_'s raging with the best of them
04:20<goodger>wha?
04:20<goodger>raging >.<
04:21<dihedral>Sacro_, you might want to reconsider your answer to "yes, aren't you [gay]?"
04:21<dihedral>i really thought you were
04:21<dihedral>i am sure Bjarni would also second that
04:21<@petern>why?
04:21<@petern>who cares?
04:21<goodger>XD
04:21<dihedral>i am just kidding petern
04:21<goodger>commotion /o/
04:21<dihedral>teasing Sacro is a bunch of run
04:21<dihedral>*fun
04:21<@petern>at least he's not a christian
04:22<@petern>JUST KIDDING!
04:22<goodger>I'm sure a substantially larger proportion than 6% of tt-forums members are gay; it's just not generally relevant
04:22<dihedral>petern, nice one :-D
04:22<dihedral>hihi
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04:23<goodger>however, I find that the best way to deal with a joking insinuation that I'm gay is to say I am; then people tend to become very flustered and embarrassed \o/
04:23<dihedral>goodger, 6% is not that much, when you consider that about 20-25% of the forum users are real idiots
04:23<dihedral>possibly even more ^^
04:23<@petern>99%
04:23<dihedral>uh
04:23<dihedral>ok
04:23<@petern>which just proves that 5.9% of idiots are gay
04:23<goodger>well, 6% is the proportion of Britons who'll admit to it on a government form
04:24<@petern>STATISTICS ARE GREAT
04:24<goodger>I'm sure that the actual figure is far higher, and that the actual figure is the same worldwide...
04:24<dihedral>if they asked my cousin, he would fail at ticking [ ] male [ ] female
04:24-!-sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:24<@petern>dihedral, there are 17000 registered users
04:24<@petern>17910 in fact
04:25<dihedral>would either be [x] male [x] female, or even [ ] male x [ ] female
04:25<goodger>dihedral: admittedly, some people do not self-identify as either of those...
04:25<goodger>gah, /me must go to college now
04:25<@petern>99% leaves ~ 200 non-idiot users
04:25<@petern>which sounds about right ;)
04:25<goodger>let us continue this most enlightening conversation later
04:25<dihedral>he's currently in the state of .... 'transforming'
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04:26<@petern>transistioning, it is called
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04:26<goodger>byee///
04:26<dihedral>i wanted to be humorous petern
04:26<dihedral>have a nice day goodger
04:26<goodger>I shan't...
04:26<@petern>oh yeah, LOL!!L!L!!!1111
04:26<goodger></reginaldperrinquote>
04:28<@petern>ah, i am within the top 200 users, heh
04:28<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=776087#p776087 <- HAHA .... too good
04:30<Gekz>lol.
04:30<@petern>dihedral is 194th, hah
04:31<@petern>okay i guess top 200 posters is not the right condition :p
04:33<dihedral>lol
04:34<dihedral>petern, where do you see that?
04:35<@petern>in the userlist, sorted by posts, heh
04:35<@petern>"Members"
04:36<Sacro_>Hmm, think I'm about done with this ACW
04:37<Sacro_>less than an hour to get it handed in :(
04:37<Sacro_>need to find a paper wallet
04:40<@petern>been up all night finishing it?
04:40<dihedral>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/om_nom_nom_nom.jpg <- the pics here are funny ^^
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04:50<@petern>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/manly.jpg
04:50<@petern>okay
04:50<@petern>that makes me want to throw up :/
04:51<Forked>I'm hungry
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04:59<dihedral>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/nerds.jpg
05:00<dihedral>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/link-wall.jpg <- that is awesome!!
05:02<Gekz>Tiles
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05:07<Gekz>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/michaeljfox32.jpg/1238144922
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05:13<dihedral>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/ireboot.jpg
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05:37<@petern>pom te pom
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05:57<eQualizer>There isn't any way to know in-game which airplanes are suitable for small airfield?
05:57<Aali>yes there is
05:58<Sacro>eQualizer: if they crash and burn then they are too big
05:58<eQualizer>...besides that.
05:59<Aali>the easiest solution is to set different company colours for small/big aircraft
06:00<Aali>but IIRC, once you've built the airplane you can see it in the vehicle details window
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06:19<Cybertinus>you can have big airplanes on a small airfield?
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06:20<Cybertinus>The chance that they chrash is only a lot bigger, which costs a lot of money :)
06:23<dihedral>a 'required runway length' info when looking at the stats when wanting to buy would be nice :-P
06:26<@petern>there's only one h in crash
06:26<dihedral>perhaps he's swiss
06:26<Cybertinus>no, Dutch :)
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06:32<Aali>don't you mean Dhutch?
06:33<Ammler>dihedral: :P
06:33<dihedral>hihi :-)
06:34<dihedral>at least someone got the pun
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07:36<sadsadsadas>anyone here ? I need help, I enabled modifying production cheat but I cannot see any place to actualy modify production at all, using nightly, ecs
07:38<Aali>that won't work with ECS
07:40<Ammler>ECS is easy anyway, no need to cheat ;-)
07:41<Aali>indeed
07:41<Ammler>:-D
07:41<Ammler>just the grf parameters to 15 15
07:44<Ammler>if you have a "strong", you could join the #openttdcoop server and finish the game, nobody else is able to ;-)
07:44<Ammler>client*
07:44<Aali>really?
07:44<Aali>noone can join?
07:44<Ammler>well, not many anymore
07:45<Ammler>looks like ECS almost double the cpu usage
07:46<Aali>well its a big game
07:46<Aali>huge map
07:46<Aali>no wonder
07:46<sadsadsadas>same here
07:46<sadsadsadas>i had to remove ai's
07:47<Aali>I guess you dont have 995 trains though
07:48<sadsadsadas>no, but over 1k buses (removed them), over 100 planes
07:49<sadsadsadas>just cannot figure out how to transport fish from fishing ground, no ship is capable of ransporting fish :////
07:49<Aali>ships suck anyway
07:50<Gekz>http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/27mar/1.jpg
07:50<Ammler>sadsadsadas: old waggons, new vehicels
07:50<Ammler>.grf
07:51<Ammler>or the newships from mb
07:51<sadsadsadas>ships suck, but cargo is precious
07:51<sadsadsadas>I got 2CC ships
07:53<Aali>there's nothing to stop you from moving that precious fish by train
07:53<Ammler>2cc isn't even in beta state, afaik
07:53<sadsadsadas>trains in the middle of atlantic ocean ? no thanks :P
07:54<dihedral>Gekz, skype has a privacy setting
07:54<dihedral>anybody who does not use it is stupid enough to have deserved such a chat ^^
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07:58<Ammler>sadsadsadas: also possible to use multiple ship sets
07:59<sadsadsadas>i hope yes, because I cannot use multiple train sets anymore :/
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08:00<dihedral>sadsadsadas, settings!
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08:04<sadsadsadas>which settings ?
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08:07<Forked>heya racetrack :)
08:07<racetrack>evening
08:08<Forked>just compiled your latest diff.. posting win32 binary now (I'm just assuming thats fine with you :p)
08:09<racetrack>oh absolutely, the code is out there :) if nothing else it shuts my brother up, who claims to want to try it but would prefer whinging at me to setting up build environment etc
08:09<racetrack>as for me, I wouldn't have a clue - no windows here
08:10<Forked>bah. still can't upload files bigger than 2MB to the forum .. there goes the counter.
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08:13<sadsadsadas>dammit, still not good enough, I am looking for a way to increase production of an industry
08:13<sadsadsadas>what ecs can do is to make resources unlimited and dont close industry
08:13<sadsadsadas>but does not effect the production level
08:16<dihedral>sadsadsadas -> forums ;-)
08:17<@Rubidium>ls
08:17<dihedral>wrong window :-P
08:17<@Rubidium>no kiddin'
08:19<Forked>so uh.. lots of <cr>'s .. and: "rubidium@svn.openttd.org's password:" .. think he would fall for it? :\
08:19<Forked>spaces perhaps, anyway nevermind
08:19<@petern>ls doesn't generally require a password...
08:19<@Rubidium>Forked: unlikely
08:20<Forked>uhm no, but a login window might
08:21<Ammler>Forked: forums file limit is bigger then 3.2 MB at least
08:22<Ammler>(my size of a openttd bundle)
08:22<Forked>Ammler: It complains about a setting in php.ini when I try to upload a 3.2(ish)MB zip now
08:23<Ammler>oh, maybe since the update
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08:25<Ammler>orudge: ^
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08:33<Ammler>:-o drive through a depot without slowdown?
08:33<Ammler>(something for Belugas ;-)
08:34<@Rubidium>no, but it's realistic for train to pass a depot at 640 km/h
08:42<dihedral>Rubidium, sure, they dont even need to work at conveyor belts anymore :P
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08:43<@petern>sirkoz at it again?
08:44<sadsadsadas>dihedral: I tried to search forums for clues but couldn't find anything, any suggestions where to look ?
08:44<racetrack>Ammler: haven't finished it yet, thats next on my list
08:45<Ammler>sadsadsadas: [12:41] <Ammler> just the grf parameters to 15 15
08:45<dihedral>sadsadsadas, yes, behind the 'post reply' button in the ecs thread
08:45<sadsadsadas>Ammler, but parameteres does not alter prouction itself
08:45<Ammler>well, that needs "playing" the game
08:45<Ammler>or do you want just watch it?
08:46<Ammler>maybe you should play "The Transporter.avi" then
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09:54<@Belugas>hello
09:55<Sacro>Morning
09:59<dihedral>hi Belugas
09:59<dihedral>your message made me laugh ^^
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10:04<planetmaker>he... Nekomaster-like behaviour seems to spread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=776216#p776216
10:05<planetmaker>I shouldn't have read posts of people on my ignore list...
10:05<@Belugas>which one dihedral?
10:06-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet708.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
10:07<Forked>"Skillz, I haz it but.." makes no sense :p
10:07-!-Dred_furst` [~Dred@resnet708.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
10:12*Belugas guesses it's part of a tentative to look cool
10:12<@Belugas>failed miserably, if you ask me
10:15<Forked>planetmaker: he did type please :)
10:22<planetmaker>Forked: fair enough :)
10:27<@orudge>Ammler: thanks for the highlight, heh
10:27<@orudge>forgot about checking that
10:28<Ammler>it rolled back to the old setting 2MB
10:28<@orudge>should be fixed now I hope
10:28<Ammler>what is max?
10:28<Ammler>shouldn't be below 4, imo.
10:29<@orudge>4MB
10:29<Ammler>:-)
10:29<Sacro>should be enough for anyone
10:29<Ammler>noai rised it around 10%
10:30<Ammler>well, you could also remove the language files to drop around 30%
10:31<@petern>rised!
10:31<Forked>orudge: thank you :)
10:31<planetmaker>thx, orudge
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10:32<Turnskin>Hi all!
10:32<Ammler>hmm, "have risen"?
10:33<Forked>raised?
10:34<Turnskin>First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :)
10:34<Ammler>another British American difference?
10:35<Turnskin>'cause i'm trying to set grf pack properly 4 hours already :) would to have all features included.
10:36<@Belugas>[10:35] <Turnskin> First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :) <--- yeah... and the devs?? prrrrrt
10:36<Turnskin>My today question is: which is the limit for GRFs for the OTTD 0.7?
10:36<planetmaker>raised, I think, Ammler :)
10:36<Turnskin>Belugas And the Developers too of course!
10:36<+glx>number of files?
10:36<Turnskin>Thank you all!
10:37<planetmaker>64 afaik
10:37<+glx>more like 62 :)
10:37<Turnskin>Something but 100
10:37<Turnskin>in my list
10:37<planetmaker>Turnskin: are you sure they all make concurrently sense?
10:37<@Belugas>[10:38] <Turnskin> Belugas And the Developers too of course! <-- Ahhh better :)
10:38<Turnskin>Including nice OpenGFX
10:38<@Belugas>yes, only 62 files only
10:38<+glx>they are base brfs
10:38<+glx>*grfs
10:38<+glx>not newgrfs
10:38<planetmaker>something learnt again thanks to Belugas and glx :)
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10:39<Turnskin_>Sorry, VPN errors
10:40<Turnskin_>I would to test and to enjoy all the spectre of vehicles, trains and stations as well as OpenGFX but i can't :(
10:41<planetmaker>yeah, don't use all at the same time.
10:41<planetmaker>Especially vehicle newgrfs tend to produce many unwanted side-effects (cross-talk), if used concurrently
10:43-!-ameno [~ameno@chello062178213196.10.15.tuwien.teleweb.at] has joined #openttd
10:45<Ammler>most sets should be used exclusive in the category they modify
10:46<ameno>is there any way to close the last opened window or the last window you interacted with?
10:46<ameno>i tend to hit esc all the time, but those nasty windows dont vanish :)
10:46<planetmaker>the most notable exception in categories is station sets. They work nicely along eachother
10:46<planetmaker>ameno: del ?
10:47<ameno>del closes all...
10:47<Ammler>that deletes all
10:47<planetmaker>oh, ok :)
10:47<ameno>i noticed, that openttd, does not have a "current" window
10:47<ameno>as most winow managers do
10:47<planetmaker>I usually open a bunch, sticky one and close all :)
10:47<ameno>therefore i asked about the "last opened" one :)
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10:48<Ammler>hmm, didn't zuu patch something like that?
10:48<ameno>yeah... but i thought its quite annoying and wondered if im the only one, that thinks so :)
10:48<@petern>ahhh, pepsi max
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10:48<@petern>not quite the liquid lunch i was hoping for...
10:49<Turnskin>BTW, i posted my idea in http://forums.ttdrussia.net about plugin based code of OTTD.
10:50<Turnskin>It means that anybody can write his own algorythm of pathfinding etc in his preferrable lang and use different versions in low level, simply
10:50<Turnskin>turning the pulgin on and off
10:50<+glx>Turnskin: and how can that work on multi platform?
10:51<Turnskin>glx It's another problem :)
10:51<Turnskin>But e.g.i dislike modern situation with the signals at all. 2-way signals are not only the "2-way" but also are pointers to a train as
10:52<Turnskin>"can go but not must"
10:52<Turnskin>.
10:53<Turnskin>But i could write a plugin in Delphi, e.g. getting path scheme with all signals and returning a way to a train must go.
10:53<Turnskin>'cause i don't know C :(
10:54<SmatZ>what can be done is company-specific pathfinder settings
10:54<@Belugas>I Know Delphi too. At one point, i did not knew C. I leared
10:54<SmatZ>but not plugins
10:54<@Belugas>learned
10:54<@Belugas>in fact, i work in Delphi...
10:54<Turnskin>Well, my VPN continues to be crazy... So please repeat, does the 64+- GRF is the limit?
10:54<+glx>anyway all clients must do the same thing in multiplayer
10:55<+glx>the limit is 62
10:55<SmatZ>like, that "custom" pathfinder is not possible
10:55<Turnskin>glx OK, thanx.
10:55<+glx>well 62 open files :)
10:55<+glx>but a tar with mutliple grfs count for 1
10:55<Turnskin>glx Ooh, cool!
10:56<Ammler>:-o
10:56<Turnskin>glx Does it understand a .tar as directory (with separate GRFs are exluded in list)?
10:56<@petern>you've given Ammler ideas...
10:56<Ammler>hehe
10:57<Ammler>well, my vps has "open files limit" :-)
10:57<@Belugas>Ammler? Ideas??
10:57*Belugas runs away!!
10:57<Ammler>I keep my ideas quite down lately...
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10:57<+glx>ho and the 62 limit includes basegrf too (that's why I have TTD files in a tar ;) )
10:58<@petern>and the 62 limit is arbitrary :D
10:58<+glx>true
11:00<Ammler>I once reached that limit, as I made the wwottdgd scenario, but it was lower at that time, somewhere around 50
11:01<@petern>it used to be 30, or so
11:01<@Belugas>arbitraty? Isn't it linked to a limit on the IP protocol? I may be wrong, though
11:01<Turnskin>Hey, another idea :) Does anybody work in many-industries direction? I mean the same GRF understanding by OTTD as it's for vehicles.
11:01<Ammler>or 30, possible
11:01<@petern>oh
11:01<@petern>hmm
11:01<@petern>there's that too
11:01<Ammler>it is quite hard to configure that many newgrfs
11:01<@petern>i could do it
11:01<SmatZ>it was lower bevause there were more OTTD grfs than just openttd.grf (now all of them are in openttd.grf)
11:01<@Belugas>Turnskin: many-industries? waht do you mean?
11:02<Turnskin>Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries.
11:03<Turnskin>Using same GRF ID internally, but OTTD will use reference table. As for vehicles GRFs.
11:04-!-Guest307 is now known as lolman
11:04<Turnskin>Ha! Another my idea as the gift for you
11:04<@petern>no, nobody's working on that
11:04<Turnskin>^)
11:04<@Belugas>Turnskin, i think you do not know how the system works...
11:04<Turnskin>It's XML b
11:04<Turnskin>ased
11:04<+glx>hmm I think PNG_SLOT may conflict with grfs
11:04<@petern>iirc it already works like that, just theres a limited number of slots
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11:04<@Belugas>vehicles and industries are two different beasts
11:04<Turnskin>(Sticky ENTER key :( )
11:05<@petern>eww
11:05<@Belugas>XML based what?
11:05<Turnskin>The idea is XML based GRFs, saves and scenarios.
11:05<Turnskin>Packed by free zlib.
11:05<@Belugas>no freaking fucking way
11:05<@Belugas>forget it, don't even dream on it
11:06<Turnskin>This way anybody could change anything in this.
11:06<@Belugas>and don't even ask why, this debate is closed, once and or all
11:06<@Rubidium>Turnskin: and then wait half a day just to download a GRF?
11:06<+glx>anybody can modify grfs already :)
11:06<Turnskin>Ahhh... I'm not the first :(
11:06<@Belugas>God no
11:06<@petern>unfortunately, not the last
11:07<SmatZ>neither the last :(
11:07<@Belugas>yeah :(
11:07<Turnskin>Rubidium I thought in this - compressed XML is not very large.
11:07<Turnskin>OK, i understand...
11:07<@Rubidium>Turnskin: compressed XML with binary crap, but that's just faking the use of XML
11:07<Turnskin>Well, this way: how can i modify saves??
11:08<@Belugas>you cannot
11:08<Turnskin>E.g. from old version
11:08<+glx>save it as uncompressed
11:08<@Rubidium>i.e. how to define a signal?
11:08<Turnskin>Belugas Thus i thought to XML :)
11:08<+glx>and use an hex editor
11:08<@Belugas>unless you really know what you are doing using a debugger or else
11:08<Ammler>[16:03] <Turnskin> Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries. <-- good idea, as ECS alone is way too few anyway... :-D
11:08<SmatZ>hehe
11:09<@Belugas>nowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynoway
11:09-!-Dred_furst` [~Dred@resnet708.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:09<goodger>*tic*
11:09<+glx>Ammler: yes it's too easy to make money with ECS ;)
11:09<Forked>tomorrow it's 10 years since the first futurama episode aired (Space Pilot 3000) :-)
11:09<@Rubidium><signal><type>block</type><direction>north east</direction></signal
11:09<@Rubidium>now I add a new type of signal... but the old version doesn't know about it... how to convert?
11:09<@petern>Ben Goodger and the Mysterious Ticking Noise
11:10<@Rubidium>hmm... lets do a proof of concept kinda thing ;)
11:10<Turnskin>Rubidium You simply open XML editor and set params and atts manually.
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11:10<goodger>petern: tics, not ticks :P
11:11<@petern>Ticing Noise?
11:11<@petern>:o
11:11<Ammler>Turnskin: try to make a game with one or two vectors of ECS, if that is too less, add another vector...
11:11<@petern>the noise of a nervous muscle spasm...
11:11<Turnskin>BTW, there is the parameter of the daylength in OTTD 0.7?
11:11<goodger>well, I am sometimes given to sharp intakes of breath when tic-ing...?
11:11<@petern>no
11:11<@Rubidium>Turnskin: any idea how big it'd become?
11:12<@petern>quick, modify SlObject to use xml!
11:12<Turnskin>Ammler Due to this question i had a situation with simple PIkka's industries and MB's New Cargoes. I would to have electrostation and Fishing grounds together.
11:13<Ammler>mb's new cargo is a experimental grf...
11:13<@Rubidium>Turnskin: and you think you can easily find the places where you need to make the changes?
11:13<Turnskin><sgn type=1 dir=8/>
11:14<+glx>signals are not stored as signals :)
11:14<Turnskin>It was an example.
11:14<SmatZ>Turnskin: no no and no
11:14<+glx>they are signals because the game read them as signals
11:14<@Rubidium>Turnskin: what does 1 mean?
11:14<SmatZ>one could save SlDesc tables in the savegame too
11:15<SmatZ>but still it would be meaningless - there are internal things that are changing
11:15<Turnskin>I mentioned XML 'cause i work with it in databases and find it very nice mechanism.
11:15<@Rubidium>what does 8 mean?
11:15<@petern>personally i use sql with databases...
11:15<+glx>Turnskin: XML is useful for only one thing, passing data from one system to another
11:15<SmatZ>like, how would you convert current games to pre-cargopacket ones?
11:16<@Belugas>xml and databases? what a silly scheme
11:16<Turnskin>But 1 and 8 means "Signal" and "NE" in this version. But "PBS" and "NEE" in later. And one can use XSLT for automatic conversion.
11:16<SmatZ>one can just compile newer OTTD version
11:17<+glx>OTTD is smart enough to convert old saves on load
11:17<@Rubidium>Turnskin: ofcourse if you would have used PROPER XML instead of BINARY XML you wouldn't need the XSLT in this case
11:17<Turnskin>One must download compiler, source, librares, be well-known in compilling...
11:18<SmatZ>"programming XML dabases" is something different than "programming OTTD in C/C++"
11:18<SmatZ>*ta
11:19<+glx>why anybody would want to edit savegames anyway?
11:19<@Rubidium>Turnskin: just for 'comparison' I've made a dump of the map array in ASCII with some VERY repetitive headers. Using zlib with maximum compression yields a 690 KiB file.
11:19<@Belugas>ask that to Leander, glx :) he goofed and want to clean it ;)
11:20<@Rubidium>the savegame that contains the map AND all vehicles is only 136 KiB
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11:22<@Rubidium>discussion reset by pulling out the ethernet cable ;)
11:22<SmatZ>:o) good
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11:35<pavel1269>does any train attitude change with changing debug/relase build?
11:35<+glx>should not
11:42<@petern>attitude does not mean the same as behaviour
11:44<SmatZ>simply, there shouldn't be a desync between "release" and "debug" builds in MP
11:45<taisteluorava>heh, i played openttd with nokia x5800, works perfectly on 640x360 resolution and touchscreen is very accurate
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11:48<taisteluorava>and its pretty quick to move around map and build with touchscreen
11:48<+glx>taisteluorava: some windows are too big for it I guess
11:49<taisteluorava>no, only news take half of screen, but i disabled those, its perfect to play now
11:49<taisteluorava>widescreen ofc
11:50<+glx>well 640 and wide ;)
11:50<taisteluorava>and 640x360 resolution is high enought, even toolbar fit perfectly
11:50<+glx>yes minimal width is 640
11:51<taisteluorava>also newGRF:s works very well
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12:05<@petern>i played it on my e71
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12:05<@petern>it's too small :p
12:13<taisteluorava>yeah, e71 have half smaller resolution than 5800
12:13<@petern>it's slower as well
12:13<Aali>god I hate writing software for windows
12:14<taisteluorava>and its just way quicker build with touchscreen, no need switch between diffrent angel rails, can use that "all direction" building style easily and accurative
12:14<Aali>still haven't figured out the opengl problem
12:14<Aali>and the only thing I actually know what its doing is my own code
12:15<Aali>the host application for my loadable dll is a black box and the opengl driver is an encrypted black box
12:16<Aali>I've tried moving the whole opengl init sequence to where the problem appears, that just made it worse
12:16<Aali>now its crashing in SetPixelFormat
12:17<Aali>it seems that after a certain point in time, any calls to the opengl driver just crash the entire thing
12:26<pavel1269>why trains stop at each station, the go throught, even there is no such a command ?
12:27<pavel1269>*then
12:27<Aali>use non-stop orders
12:27<pavel1269>well, they don t have that station in orders at all
12:28<Aali>use non-stop orders
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12:29<pavel1269>if i change track layout, that now some trains have to go throught station, i must catch ALL of em and give them orders??
12:29<Aali>use non-stop orders
12:31<Ammler>lol Aali
12:31<pavel1269>hes stuck? :P
12:31<Aali>did you try using non-stop orders?
12:32<Aali>it should be quite obvious how they work once you see them in action
12:32<Ammler>non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage...
12:32<Ammler>you can set it as default btw.
12:34<pavel1269>i am gonna try, and this should explain, why it in 15832 work :P
12:35<pavel1269>okay ... so stupid problem ...
12:35<Aali>wow thats just perfect
12:36<Aali>single-stepping through glGenTextures with a debugger just magically makes it work
12:36<@petern>yeah, here's a suggestion
12:36<@petern>use non-stop orders
12:37<+glx>Aali: maybe a threading problem
12:37<Aali>glx: I'm pretty sure it is, but I have no control over any threads
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12:38<Aali>my dll isn't threaded
12:38<Aali>the opengl driver is, and so is the host app, my guess is that the host app is trashing TLS
12:39<Aali>but if thats the case, I have no way of fixing it
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12:42<@Belugas>Aali: use non-stop library
12:42<@Belugas>her...
12:42<@Belugas>sorry
12:44<Aali>heh
12:47<@petern>:D
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13:07<ameno>wtf is wrong, if a train does not load the cargo of an industry thats clearly in range?
13:08<+glx>does the station accepts the cargo?
13:08<Vikthor>is it refitted to carry that cargo?
13:08-!-yorick [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
13:08<yorick>oh look, a 500 Internal Server Error on openttd.org
13:08<ameno>glx: wrong way, industry supplies the cargo
13:08<@Rubidium>town exclusivity?
13:08<yorick>with a Cherokee web server 0.99.8 (UNIX), Port 80 message
13:09<+glx>2 concurrents with better rating than you ?
13:09<ameno>Vikthor yes.. the same train works a few squares north with the same industry type
13:09<ameno>no other players
13:09<+glx>only 2 stations can get the cargo anyway
13:10<ameno>only this one in range
13:10<+glx>savegame needed I fear
13:10<KenjiE20>maybe you don't cover enough/the right square to get the cargo
13:11<ameno>KenjiE20 its directly adjacent to the station
13:11<ameno>it should cover all of the industry's fields imho
13:11-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Yorick@*.ip.telfort.nl] by petern
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13:12<KenjiE20>have you checked with the catchment on?
13:13<ameno>when i place them yes
13:13<ameno>hm now it works...
13:13<ameno>i did not really change anything... just rescheduled the train again
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13:14<ameno>but it was correct before im sure
13:14<+glx>what industry type?
13:14<ameno>coal
13:14<ameno>mine
13:14<ameno>ill check if i can reproduce it in one of the autosaves
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13:18<ameno>yes i can... and i know what the problem is.. it was set to "non-stop"
13:18<ameno>and i have that patch enabled...
13:18<ameno>forgot about that... non-stop is then interpreted as waypoint iirc?
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13:20<Ammler>[17:32] <Ammler> non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage... <-- ;-)
13:21<ameno>un-solution in this case :)
13:21<Ammler>waypoint "replacement" is via, afaik.
13:21<@petern>waypoints are waypoints and have not been replaced
13:22<Ammler>petern: see the """ ;-)
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13:23<ameno>http://wiki.openttd.org/Configuring_patches/Stations#TTDPatch_compatible_non-stop_handling
13:23<ameno>that one
13:24<Ammler>that is just to set the default behavior
13:24<ameno>so if i have that patch enabled, a station set go non-stop + load != work
13:24<ameno>mh
13:24<Ammler>which version do you play?
13:24<ameno>0.6.2
13:24<ameno>ubuntu binary
13:24<Ammler>ah ok, quite old, then you might need that
13:27<Ammler>ameno: non-stop handling is just to tell the train not stopping on other stations on his way
13:28<Ammler>like if you use stations as waypoints
13:28<@petern>well that patch setting is stupid
13:29<Ammler>it is described a little bit odd
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13:31<Ammler>(in the english.lng)
13:31<@petern>it makes people thing "non-stop" means "don't stop"
13:31<@petern>or rather "don't stop at"
13:31<ameno>well... it seems it works like that in my version
13:32<ameno>the station was set to (go to) non-stop + load
13:32<ameno>and it did not load, but left immediatly
13:32<@petern>yeah, because you enabled that patch option
13:32<Ammler>german text is something like "do orders per default without "between"-stops"
13:33<Ammler>petern: because he didn't?
13:34<Ammler>we always played with that enabled...
13:35<+glx>well use 0.7.0+ and problem is solved ;)
13:35<Ammler>(or even more confusing...) ;-)
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13:36<+glx>depends on translators now :)
13:36<+glx>"via" and "go non stop to" are available at the same time
13:37<+glx>TTDPatch non-stop handling was one or the other
13:38<Ammler>he, french also changes the font
13:39<+glx>because µ for the OSK
13:42<Ammler>isn't "without-stop" english?
13:42<Ammler>maybe better then non-stop
13:42<Aali>it makes no sense but I think I just solved my opengl issues \o/
13:43<Aali>glGenTextures wasn't crashing at all
13:44<Aali>but something really confused the debugger
13:44<Aali>the actual crash came later on, with a bad call to glTexImage2D
13:45<+glx>debugger and multi thread can be fun ;)
13:45<Aali>found it by literally commenting out all of my code line-by-line
13:45<Aali>my code is only ever called from the main thread of the host app
13:46<Aali>I think the opengl drivers did some trickery to lose the debugger intentionally
13:49<Sacro>lolman: new servur
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14:16<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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14:20<welshdragon>:o a jonty-comp
14:20<jonty-comp>lies
14:21<Sacro>Hmm, where is Large Font used?
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14:23<frosch123>newspaper
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16:36<gass>hello people
16:36<gass>is it usual for openttd to consume 50% of cpu
16:36<gass>with 2048x2048 and 1(one) trail and 2(two) stations?
16:37<gass>in debian lenny
16:37<gass>by the way
16:37<@petern>yup
16:38<@petern>large map is a lot of work
16:38<gass>version 0.6.3
16:38<gass>but 50%, with one train?
16:38<@Belugas>even on 0.6.3
16:38<gass>55% stable
16:38<@petern>well, of course it depends on the cpu in question
16:39<@petern>but there's more to (open)ttd than just the train
16:39<@Belugas>it's not just about trains. it could be opponents, industries, even towns. lots can happen
16:39<gass>well ... it is a modest cpu
16:39<gass>model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 420 @ 1.60GHz
16:39<@petern>oh well
16:39<@petern>think yourself lucky then
16:39<@Rubidium>what resolution?
16:40<gass>Belugas, true ... but for now ... its one train ... obviously ... there is more going on
16:40<+glx>32bpp can help too sometimes
16:40<gass>Rubidium, 2048x2048, the map
16:40<@Belugas>and animations, let's not forgtet animation :D
16:41<gass>Belugas, like i said... its one train ... in 2048x2048 we can imagine the number of animations after 10 years
16:41<@Belugas>gass, resolution does not mean map size, but the screen dimension ;)
16:41<@Rubidium>it's very unlikely that you've got 2048x2048 screen resolution (especially because 0.6.3 doesn't support that resolution)
16:41<gass>1400 x 1200 ?
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16:42<+glx>try with a 32bpp blitter
16:42<@Belugas>ingame, you know where is the setting button n the toolbar?
16:43<@Belugas>if so, click on it, and keep mouse button down. tell us if Full Animation in checked
16:45<@petern>press F1
16:45<@petern>then it'll be alright
16:48<@Belugas>yeah :)
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19:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15865 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for company finances windows
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19:15<goodger>ooh, a lovely netsplit
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19:57<gass>are there any new icon/image sets (instead of the original ones?
19:59<Ammler>32bpp
19:59<Ammler>which is also used in the OpenGFX
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20:53<hachque>i can't get openttd to work properly on linux
20:53<hachque>i've tried to compile it
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20:53<hachque>but when i run it it says it's missing sample.cat
20:53<Yexo>you need sample.cat from your original ttd cdrom
20:53<wision_>maybe you are missing sample.cat then?
20:53<Yexo>although an empty sample.cat file will work too (but you won't have sound)
20:53<SmatZ>hachque: radme.txt
20:54<SmatZ>*readme
20:55<hachque>there's no readme with the source package ;)
20:55<hachque>anyway
20:55<hachque>problem solved
20:56<@Rubidium>really? which source package did you take then?
20:56<SmatZ>hachque: sure there is readme.txt!
20:56<hachque>beta
20:56<hachque>where is the compiled source looking for the data files?
20:56<@Rubidium>read the readme
20:56<@Rubidium>and "beta" isn't a source package
20:57<hachque>it is if you download the source version
20:57<SmatZ>hachque: sources for beta2 and RC2 both have readme.txt
20:57<hachque>wait
20:57<hachque>nvm
20:57<hachque>it's there
20:57<hachque>i generally look for README
20:57<hachque>since that's what linux packages generally call them
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22:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15866 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the difficulty window.
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22:24<gass>Ammler, there?
22:25<Yexo>he said +- 1 hour ago he'd go to bed
22:41<Yexo>Belugas: I hope http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=776347#p776347 helps, but I fear not
22:41<Yexo>I had a little pm session with him yesterday, and his conclusion was that he wasn't able to update patches
22:41<Yexo>now if only he concluded that in that case he isn't able to make a patchpack either...
22:42<gass>humm ... auto substitute trains does not work ...
22:42<gass>on 0.6.3
22:42<Yexo>"doesn't work" is not an error message
22:43<Yexo>in other words, specify what you tried, what the result was and why that was different from what you expected
22:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15867 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h):
22:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove the assumption that the first widgets are the close box/title bar.
22:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Most work already done by r15756.
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22:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15868 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove the close box from the widget array instead of doing it in the constructor of the difficulty window. This makes it work again in rtl languages.
22:58<gass>Yexo, i selected the substitute trains in the train list
22:58<gass>listing all trains
23:00<Yexo>you mean "replace trains"?
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 28 00:00:22 2009