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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-04-05

---Logopened Sun Apr 05 00:00:34 2009
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01:36<DephNet[Paul]>Is CargoDest in trunk yet? I saw somewhere that it was, I can't remember where, but just wanted to check in here to be sure?
01:40<+planetmaker>you looked wrong
01:40<+planetmaker>and it's unlikely to happen soon
01:42<DephNet[Paul]>planetmaker, fair enough, just wanted to check as i didnt think it would be as it would be on both the site and on the forum
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02:01<gleeb>planetmaker: Really? CargoDest seems pretty 'done'
02:01<+planetmaker>it may seem, but it isn't and the dev who started it is busy with RL
02:02<gleeb>That's a shame. I like CargoDest, it's my preferred mode of play.
02:02<+planetmaker>and it has compile dependencies which are not necessarily liked by all people
02:03<gleeb>Oh, I see :P
02:03<gleeb>Depending on something that's not quite OS or has a lisence people don't like?
02:03<gleeb>or just an annoying lib? :P
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02:04<+planetmaker>HUGE lib: boost
02:04<gleeb>Ah, I see.
02:05<gleeb>Yeah, I saw that dependancy, I thought it a bit odd.
02:05<DephNet[Paul]>what exactly *is* boost?
02:05<gleeb>Only uses onetiny set of features of the whole thing, too :|
02:06<+planetmaker>DephNet[Paul]: a library...
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02:12<gleeb>Ugh, their website is useless.
02:13<Gekz>so why is Boost used
02:13<Gekz>and not something else?
02:14<gleeb>Maybe it's what the original coder felt comfortable with.
02:15<Gekz>that's sick and/or sad
02:15<gleeb>Looks like it's used for pathfinding.
02:16<gleeb>(Within the cargo graph)
02:16<gleeb>Why on earth? I mean, really.
02:19<Gekz>rewrite it
02:22<gleeb>Pathfinding is not my thing, I'm afraid.
02:23<Gekz>I'm configuring a server
02:23<Gekz>and burning discs
02:23<gleeb>Erm, Gratz?
02:24<Gekz>and I just realised that you can use vim in a terminal with the mouse
02:24<Gekz>I didnt know it responded to mouse until I accidentally clicked something
02:25<gleeb>Yup... although, I tend not to :P
02:25<Gekz>neither do I
02:25<Gekz>that's why I never knew
02:41<taisteluorava>what is exact time 1 ingame year on minutes, about 13 min 30 sec?
02:46<De_Ghosty>4 years make an hr
02:46<De_Ghosty>so i heard
02:46<+planetmaker>taisteluorava: the 13:30 sounds about right. I think a few seconds longer, though
02:47<+planetmaker>@calc 30*74*30/60
02:47<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1110
02:47<+planetmaker>@calc 30/1000*74*30*2.2
02:47<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 146.52
02:48<@petern>boost is a template library, not a regular library
02:48<+planetmaker>@calc 2.2*1000/30
02:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 73.3333333333
02:48<@petern>so the fact it is 'huge' is irrelevant, as cargodest only uses a tiny bit of it
02:48<+planetmaker>@calc 0.030*74*30
02:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 66.6
02:49<+planetmaker>@calc 0.030*74*365
02:49<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 810.3
02:49<+planetmaker>@calc 0.030*74*365/60
02:49<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 13.505
02:49<+planetmaker>petern: I know. But can you install parts of it?
02:49<George>DaleStan: Are you here?
02:49<@petern>you can install parts of it, but that's useless for cargodest
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04:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15956 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_station.cpp newgrf_station.h): -Codechange: Enumorize station spec flags.
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04:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15957 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix (r4767): Set callback_param1 (var 10) to 1 only when requested.
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05:35*TrueBrain waves a good morning
05:36<+planetmaker>good morning TrueBrain :)
05:36<TrueBrain>how are you doing today? :)
05:36<+planetmaker>fine :) looking forward to cake eating this afternoon :D
05:36<+planetmaker>How about you?
05:36<TrueBrain>why cake eating?
05:37<+planetmaker>oh, it's a birthday cake. Of my goddaughter
05:37<TrueBrain>concratz :)
05:37<+planetmaker>it's her 2nd birthday - but concerning eating, she eats as much as me :D
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05:44<fonsinchen>Cargodist updated:
05:44<fonsinchen>I believe the loading/unloading code to be compatible with traditional loading/unloading now
05:44<TrueBrain>planetmaker: like they all do ;)
05:44<TrueBrain>cargodist, cargodest ... annoying names :p
05:45<+planetmaker>yeah... they all do :)
05:45<fonsinchen>well, it's recognizable that it does the same. Yet cargo distribution takes into account _how_ the cargo gets to its destination
05:45<fonsinchen>so I think the name fits.
05:47<+planetmaker>fonsinchen: that's something different than cargo destinations?
05:48<fonsinchen>yes, because it does load balancing
05:49<fonsinchen>and also it explicitly calculates a demand function
05:49<fonsinchen>which is also part of "distribution"
05:49<fonsinchen>but not of "destination"
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05:54<TrueBrain>did anyone understand what he was talking about? :p
05:55<fonsinchen>ok ... cargo distribution is the process of selecting cargo to be distributed, determining where it should go and which way it should take.
05:56<fonsinchen>A cargo destination is only the place some cargo goes
05:56<fonsinchen>And incidentally the old cargo destination patches don't do much more than calculating cargo destinations.
05:57<fonsinchen>Which is not enough, as people in the forums have found out.
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05:57<fonsinchen>Was that clear now?
05:57<TrueBrain>well ... what is clear, is what cargodest does
05:58<TrueBrain>not what cargodist adds :p
05:58<TrueBrain>to me anyway
05:58<TrueBrain>but I am known to be stupid :)
05:58<fonsinchen>Let's take Celestar's cargodest and compare it to cargodist:
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05:59<frosch123>looks like e vs. i
05:59<fonsinchen>cargodest sends cargo to various places rather erratically
05:59*TrueBrain gives frosch123 a cake for guessing right :)
05:59<fonsinchen>You don't have an explicit demand function which would be easily exchanged and modified
06:00<fonsinchen>it also doesn't support load balancing
06:00<J^H>anyone uses autopilot ?
06:00<fonsinchen>which is part of "how does the cargo get to its destination"
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06:01<fonsinchen>cargodist has a demand function which achieves various goals that have been identified as important:
06:01<fonsinchen>symmetricity for passengers, dependence on distance between stations, dependence on size of towns where the stations are in.
06:02<fonsinchen>and it also has an asymmetric demand function for other cargo
06:02<TrueBrain>I am really totally lost ... I guess you need to have played it :p
06:02<fonsinchen>no, that's a theoretical concept so far
06:02<fonsinchen>Do you get, what a demand function is?
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06:04<TrueBrain>eeeuuuuuuuhhhh ... demand? :p
06:04<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
06:04<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: it is just too early on a sunday to wrap my head around it
06:04<fonsinchen>A demand function describes how many passengers want to go from station A to station B
06:05<fonsinchen>simple as that, and equivalently for all other cargos and stations
06:05<fonsinchen>You want the same number of passengers going from A to B as from B to A - this is called symmetric
06:06<TrueBrain>I guess fonsinchen doesn't understand sarcasm, but okay :) (hihi)
06:06<fonsinchen>You're late. It's April 5th
06:07<TrueBrain>sarcasm can only be expressed at the first? :p
06:08<TrueBrain>but okay .. does your patch do this: when you push a lot of coal to one power station, it starts refusing it? :p
06:08<frosch123>"An error occured, which was not logged, and was not reported to anybody. It might be your fault, or it might be mine. " :)
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06:12<fonsinchen>TrueBrain: are you still trying to kid me? I don't understand the question.
06:13<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: I hate in OpenTTD, that you can move coal from 100 coal mines to a single power station
06:13<SpComb>not with PBI!
06:13<@petern>you can't with ...
06:13<@petern>damn you
06:13<SpComb>and I even had to figure out what the right acronym was
06:13<fonsinchen>That problem shouldn't be solved with cargo distribution but rather with limiting acceptance of industries.
06:14<fonsinchen>If I had limited acceptance I could write a better demand function that would take that into account.
06:14<SpComb>frosch123: that sounds familiar...
06:15<frosch123>do you need all the other output?
06:15<frosch123>or does it also not work on your site?
06:15<SpComb>well, like it says, it wasn't logged anywhere, so I don't know what caused it :P
06:15<SpComb>oh right, the whole thing fails
06:16<SpComb>looks like mercurial got upgraded
06:17<frosch123>if you need it:
06:18<SpComb>I quickfixed it, but I don't have the time to fix it properly now
06:18<frosch123>yeah, works :)
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08:07<frosch123>someone knows the 'experts hard
08:08<frosch123>' guys?
08:16<@petern>not me
08:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15958 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_industries.cpp): -Fix [FS#2787]: Abort production callback after 0x10000 iterations and show a messagebox blaming the newgrf. (mizipzor)
08:19<@petern>eww, ic125 hauling wood :s
08:20<@Rubidium>why shouldn't the wood deserve a fast and comfortable ride?
08:21<TrueBrain>concratz mizipzor :p
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08:25<@petern>there's a g on congrats...
08:25<@petern>sigh :p
08:25<taknil>Hey guise'n'galls!
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08:26<fonsinchen>should I regard a full load order as interfering with cargodist and revert to traditional routing?
08:26<fonsinchen>or should I only load the cargo that wants to board that vehicle
08:27<fonsinchen>(reverting to traditional routing is much easier ...)
08:27<frosch123>there is nothing wrong with a transport to only start when the vehicle is filled. but the passengers could cancel their ride if they have to wait too long for their vacation
08:30<fonsinchen>the actual question is: If I have a vehicle with a full load order waiting at a station and n cargo packets that want to take some other vehicle. Should the full load order override that and load the packets onto the waiting vehicle?
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08:41<taknil>i just movede to 0.7 and cannot find where to set the option to bulid primary industries?
08:41<taknil>can someone help me?
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08:48<frosch123>advanced settings->economy->industries
08:54<taknil>oh, just found it, thx
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09:31<rbmntjs>I have an issue that is not *as such* a bug, but isn't a "general information" thing either. Is this the right place for it?
09:32<TrueBrain>let me read the cards
09:32<TrueBrain>today, you might find a path, that leads you to an answer
09:32<TrueBrain>I guess it is!
09:32<TrueBrain>(how vague can one be :p)
09:32<rbmntjs>You should write fortune cookies.
09:32<TrueBrain>yeah, might make me some money ...
09:35<rbmntjs>Here's the thing. I have been keeping an OpenTTD version 0.5.2 alongside all the newer ones, because I noticed, back when I tried 0.6, that there were some serious performance transgressions. 0.7 dealt me the same hand, so I decided to ask… This is OS X on a 2006 MacBook (so I don't have a proper video card); this might be the thing. Either way, I like what's happened since 0.5, but 0.5 is the only version that still runs smoothly.
09:35<rbmntjs>Sorry, that's a bit long.
09:36<@Rubidium>what version of OSX?
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09:36<rbmntjs>Also, transgressions -> regressions.
09:36<rbmntjs>Uh, the latest 10.5.
09:37<+glx>use a 32bpp blitter
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09:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15959 /extra/masterserver_updater/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: prepare the masterserver (and indirectly also the updater) to handle multiple IPs per client.
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09:47<rbmntjs>Oh wow, thanks, glx
09:47<rbmntjs>That totally does the trick.
09:48<+glx>it's a known problem ;)
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10:28<TrueBrain>why does OpenTTD has so many languages ... it takes for ever :(
10:29<TrueBrain>trying to manipulate the language files .. it takes long :(
10:32<welshdragon>TrueBrain: because we have a lot of multilingual users?
10:33<TrueBrain>no, that can't be it
10:33<@petern>or rather, not multilingual...
10:33<TrueBrain>that sounds more like it yes :)
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10:34<welshdragon>peope who can't understand English :p
10:34<@petern>obviously you are 'multilingual' then, if you think that's what it means...
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10:35<@petern>TrueBrain, would you believe it... no RIPE email yet!
10:35<jonty-comp>well it is the weekend
10:36<TrueBrain>petern: lazy bastards!
10:36<@petern>It is. This cannot be tolerated!
10:36<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: well, we are working here too, aren't we?! :)
10:36<jonty-comp>it should be the week!
10:36<TrueBrain>last night I even had a converstation with LeaseWeb!
10:36<jonty-comp>then petern can go to work and still be on IRC all day.
10:36<TrueBrain>I expected more from RIPE :(
10:37<TrueBrain>(btw, some personal of LeaseWeb are looking into if they can give us native IPv6 :) I love this community :))
10:37<jonty-comp>Now I'm just waiting for BT to decide that the UK telecoms can support IPv6 :p
10:38<Forked>note to self: bug the people at work for native ipv6 ..
10:38<TrueBrain>I am just waiting for my university to forward the IPv6 support :(
10:38<jonty-comp>I read somewhere that physically they can, but there's some old bug in the cisco routers at work that they can't be bothered to fix that means it doesn't work or something
10:38<Forked>I fear ..most norwegian ISPs are far behind on that area :\
10:38<Forked>including the one I work at.. then again I don't know for sure what they are up to at all times :p
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10:39<@petern>Some ADSL providers offer IPv6.
10:40<@petern>so aaisp does it via tunnels. how silly.
10:41<@petern>might as well just use my own tunnel, heh
10:41<el_en>who needs IPv6, the IPv4 address space ought to be enough forever.
10:42<jonty-comp>but NAT smells :(
10:42<Forked>vanity IPs are not really possible with ipv4
10:42<Forked>I want the word "beef" somewhere in my ip :\
10:43<TrueBrain>Forked: with a tunnel or native, you can simply get a /64, which allows you to do so :p
10:43<TrueBrain>so go for it!
10:43<Forked>TrueBrain: it's not the same.. I want native vanity!
10:44<TrueBrain>2000:BEEF: :p
10:44<TrueBrain>that would be hard to get ... ;)
10:44<el_en>i imagine one phase before the fall of the internet will be reassigning IP blocks to those who actually need them.
10:44<TrueBrain>too bad '' doesn't end anywhere :(
10:45<el_en>I've heard about companies that need about about 8 static IPs, but have been given a whole /16 subnet by their ISP in the good old days.
10:46<TrueBrain>there was a time you got 4 IPs with an ADSL connection here
10:46<TrueBrain>long gone, those times
10:46<Forked>I could get several more IPs if I wanted on my dsl.. I just don't see a need right now :\
10:47<TrueBrain>but oaky .. requesting /24 at RIPE still goes without much trouble ...
10:48<el_en>TrueBrain: 4 dynamic or static IPs? over here, one typically gets 5 dynamic ones with a consumer-class ADSL connection.
10:48<TrueBrain>4 static
10:48<TrueBrain>I did found out my current ISP serves as many DHCP requests as I give him ... :p
10:49<jonty-comp>mine probably does that, but I don't know how any of this stuff works so I just let the wireless modem router thing work it all out. :D
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11:06<@Darkvater>'keep building tools active after usage' defaults to on :s
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11:07<frosch123>SDTC_BOOL(gui.persistent_buildingtools, S, 0, false, STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PERSISTENT_BUILDINGTOOLS, NULL), <- what makes you think so?
11:07<@Darkvater>cause it's on even though I never turned it on ;p
11:07<@Darkvater>isn't false true?
11:09<frosch123>if (a) b = true; else b = false;
11:11<@Darkvater>hihi, old game just goes crazy
11:11<@Darkvater>hmm, wait
11:11<frosch123>or do you prefer: b = a ? true : false;
11:11<@Darkvater>b = a ? false : true
11:11<@Darkvater>does 'new order non-stop' default to true?
11:11*Darkvater checks
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11:13<@Darkvater>hmm, no it doesn't
11:14*Darkvater wonders...did this game never work then? all orders are "go non-stop via <destination>"
11:15<TrueBrain>poor Darkvater
11:15<TrueBrain>thinking he is losing his mind
11:15<Sacro>frosch123: a =b ?
11:15<Sacro>b = a
11:16<frosch123>sometimes also b = !!a
11:16<@Darkvater>meh, oh well, wasn't my game
11:16<@Darkvater>b = c it should be
11:16<Sacro>midge ure and stephen hawking on a tv advert
11:17<frosch123>#define isequal(a, b) (a == b ? true : false)
11:17<@Darkvater>I'd do (a) == (b) though
11:17<frosch123>hmm, true
11:18<TrueBrain>@calc 256 - 224
11:18<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 32
11:18<TrueBrain>@calc 256 * 256 * 256 * 32
11:18<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 536870912
11:18<@Darkvater>the amount of money on your bank-account
11:18<TrueBrain>227 clients and 177 servers .. wow :p
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11:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: remote-crash the servers with 0 clients :p
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11:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: there is an idea yes yes .. hmm .. where was that exploit ... :p :p :p
11:51<SmatZ>for what version?
11:52<TrueBrain>all :p
11:52-!-Swallow [] has joined #openttd
11:52<TrueBrain>going to get some food now firs T:p
11:53<SmatZ>I am afraid there isn't any
11:53<TrueBrain>you didn't get the memo? :p
11:53<SmatZ>I will have a look ;)
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12:05<@petern>TrueBrain's on cable? :o
12:21-!-EoD [~EoD@2001:a60:f066:0:e098:f4f2:bcef:ee47] has joined #openttd
12:22<TrueBrain>EoD: check tha webpage man!
12:24<EoD>nice! An IPv6-only logo :)
12:25<TrueBrain>just not animated :p
12:25<@petern>ANIMATE IT
12:25<EoD>you want it to be animated? ;)
12:25<SpComb>with bouncing bananas!
12:25<TrueBrain>make it :p
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13:17<TrueBrain>I really should learn not to watch movies under dinner that makes me want to puke :(
13:19-!-Pikka [] has joined #openttd
13:20<TrueBrain>horror movies
13:20<TrueBrain>don't know the right english word to describe the type :p
13:20<EoD>i don't like horror movies
13:21<EoD>why don't you watch other movies while eating? ^^
13:21<TrueBrain>couldn't find anything better :p
13:21<TrueBrain>now I regret watching something at all :p
13:26<mizipzor>TrueBrain: thanks :) ... for the congratz at 14:21 (im using screen and is not here all the time)
13:28<EoD>mizipzor: congratz! I just read about it in the changelog
13:28<mizipzor>EoD: :)
13:29<mizipzor>although its arguably the smallest patch ever to get accepted by a user :p but still! hehe
13:30<@Rubidium>mizipzor: shall we argue about that? My argument is that there have been smaller patches by users that have been accepted
13:34-!-Hirundo [] has joined #openttd
13:35*EoD : this is going to be interesting... ;)
13:37<@Rubidium> <- my opening argument
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13:45<mizipzor>Rubidium: very well, i surrender :p
13:47<TrueBrain>you know where to bring donations, right?
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15960 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-05 17:47:56
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 fixed by khaloofah (2)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed, 4 changed by arnaullv (5)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by Excel20 (1)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 46 fixed, 1 changed by kristjans (47)
13:48<mizipzor>bot went crazy
13:49<TrueBrain>no, just doing its job
13:49<mizipzor>the bots job is to go crazy
13:51<mizipzor>sorry, im in a bad mood and severly lack a sense of humor now
13:51<mizipzor>trying to cheer myself up :p
13:52<TrueBrain>is it working?
13:52<TrueBrain>translator.models.MultipleObjectsReturned: get() returned more than one Case -- it returned 2! Lookup parameters were {'name': u'm'}
13:52<TrueBrain>I hate such errors :(
13:52<mizipzor>errors are bad
13:53<TrueBrain>even more the ones you can't predict
13:53<TrueBrain>how did twice the same letter slip in ...
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13:55<TrueBrain>oopsie ...
13:58<mizipzor>i should give my server some love... its just standing there making noise... its my old desktop so it isnt really geared for a healess setup
14:00<EoD>Do you want to give my server love, too? Today he refused to do DHCP, i think he feels neglected :(
14:02-!-PhoenixII [] has joined #openttd
14:02<mizipzor>it so typical!
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14:32<TrueBrain>how much connection-loss can you have in such a short period of time ...
14:33<mizipzor>bad clients sometimes restart to reread the settings when theyre changed
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14:34<TrueBrain>sounds as a terrible client :)
14:34<TrueBrain>sounds like windows: restart because of config change :p
14:35<+planetmaker>he... not sure he uses windows :)
14:36-!-Hirundo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:42<EoD>It says "Read error". What's this?
14:42<TinoDidriksen> error.
14:43<TinoDidriksen>An attempt to read from the socket resulted in an error, usually due to untimely disconnection.
14:46-!-Black-men [~Black-men@] has joined #openttd
14:47<Black-men>Hi all
14:47<Black-men>04470451 04340435043b043004350448?
14:48<welshdragon>is that code?
14:49<welshdragon>can you please leave, or face a ban.
14:49<frosch123>hmm, maybe the activation code for an intercontinental including target
14:50*welshdragon summons an op
14:50*EoD has only UTF-8 support
14:50<@Rubidium>Black-men: fix your client so it sents UTF8 instead of garbage
14:50<EoD>Black-men: please don't write russia letters
14:51-!-Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
14:51<Nite_Owl>Hello all
14:51<Nite_Owl>Hello EoD
14:52-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:55-!-maristo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:00<EoD>are those ai_*.cpp only related to NoAI?
15:00<frosch123>everything in ai/ is only related to noai
15:03<TrueBrain>is 1 + 1 equal to 2?
15:04<EoD>not for sure
15:04-!-lewymati [] has quit []
15:04<EoD>it could be 0
15:04<mizipzor>and 10 ;)
15:04*EoD is talking about numbers to base 10
15:05<mizipzor>bah, binary jokes are always welcome
15:05<@petern>blah blah blah 10 types of people blah blah blah
15:05<mizipzor>see? :)
15:07<mizipzor>is there a linux command to tell me which partition on which physical drive that is mapped to folder X?
15:08<EoD>TrueBrain: It depends on the characteristic of the ring you are working with. If you have characteristic of 2, 1+1=0
15:09<TrueBrain>I need a JSON RPC Javascript client ..
15:10<@orudge>Heh, we have 8 users posting to tt-forums from IPv6 addresses
15:10<@orudge>the rest are all IPv4
15:10<EoD>Here are about 5 people with ipv6? ;)
15:10<@orudge>I think all 8 are in this channel, too
15:11<TrueBrain>so much for IPv6 usage :p
15:11<@orudge>or thereabouts
15:11<frosch123>ban them and you have consistent access
15:11*orudge bans TrueBrain, Rubidium, petern...
15:11<@orudge>I could see that might have negative effects :p
15:11*EoD survived!
15:11<TrueBrain>EoD: who are you?
15:11*orudge kills EoD
15:11<mizipzor>TinoDidriksen: thanks
15:13<EoD>TrueBrain: Noone, that's why i survived the first attack ;)
15:13*petern is not using ipv6...
15:13<@petern>(for irc)
15:13<@orudge>nor am I, for IRC
15:13<mizipzor>regarding ipv6, i tried it a few times for some geek points... but besides having a fun hacker challenge, my internet experience didnt get better
15:13<@orudge>since mIRC doesn;t support it, alas
15:13<@orudge>I could move my bouncer to gollum or obiwan and connect to the bouncer over IPv4, and the bouncer to the server via IPv6
15:13<@orudge>but that'd be vaguely pointless
15:14<@Rubidium>mizipzor: well, reaching my laptop behind a NAT is much easier with IPv6 (tunnel)
15:14-!-Black-men [~Black-men@] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:14<TrueBrain> <- the 'official' json rpc webpage :(
15:14<@petern>that would be easy with an ipv4 tunnel, though
15:15<mizipzor>Rubidium: nice to see you have some use for it :) i didnt find it easier
15:15<EoD>the is the main advantage. I can connect from my computer at the university (behind a lot of NATs) to my personal computer here (which is also behind a NAT)
15:15<TrueBrain>I think I make IPv6 only
15:15<TrueBrain>that at least avoids bug reporets
15:15<@petern>silly ripe lir portal. it remembers by username and password but not my regid :/
15:15<mizipzor>although, i had controll over all the NATs i wanted to get through :p
15:16-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:16<EoD>Everyone can have his own personal server which is at his home behind any NAT/router with IPv6.
15:16<EoD>I like that :)
15:16<mizipzor>hmm... a partition is mounted on /media/disk, but all there is in there is a lost+found... is that partition empty? or could it be permissions error or something?
15:17<@petern>sounds empty
15:17<EoD>probably empty?
15:17<TrueBrain>sounds extN fs
15:17<@petern>is it the correct partition? heh
15:18<mizipzor>petern: i dunno :p
15:18<mizipzor>see, my server has just stood there, it was my old desktop before i bought this laptop, now im planning to nuke the drives and reinstall linux... trying out yet another distro and go for a more headless setup
15:18<TinoDidriksen>Access permissions won't hide files from view, so isn't that. If you can ls, you have access.
15:19<mizipzor>so im going through the disks connected to it
15:19<mizipzor>TinoDidriksen: i can ls
15:19<TinoDidriksen>"fdisk -l" is also useful.
15:19*frosch123 prefers "cat /proc/partitions"
15:20*EoD prefers "df -h"
15:20<mizipzor>i prefer fdisk since then i can see which of the partitions are mounted where :p
15:21<mizipzor>can i see some sort of "rawdata" as to how much of the partition is free? if it close to 100% i can safely assume i have no data on the disk
15:21<SmatZ>mizipzor: I can't
15:21<frosch123>mizipzor: df
15:21<TinoDidriksen>fdisk shows size of disk and size of partition. Do the math.
15:21-!-Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
15:21<TinoDidriksen>Oh, you meant free space on the fs
15:21<mizipzor>frosch123: yup, 0 or 1 % used on the disks :p
15:22<mizipzor>SmatZ: cant what?
15:22<Nite_Owl>ISP problems
15:22<SmatZ>mizipzor: it doesn't show what is mounted where
15:24<TinoDidriksen>SmatZ, you combine it with mount
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15:25<SmatZ>TinoDidriksen: [21:20:56] <mizipzor> i prefer fdisk since then i can see which of the partitions are mounted where :p
15:25<TinoDidriksen>Yes, but I had already told him about mount.
15:26<SmatZ>ah well :)
15:26<TrueBrain> <- is not IPv6 ready :(
15:26<SpComb>that's what you have for
15:27<TrueBrain>and it really exists :p
15:27<jonty-comp>even I knew that!
15:28*jonty-comp goes to break it
15:28-!-SpComb [] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
15:28-!-SpComb [] has joined #openttd
15:28<jonty-comp>SpComb has jumped on the bandwagon! :D
15:28<SpComb>ages ago
15:29<SpComb>but I don't really have proper reverses for this host
15:29<SpComb>and I don't want to request a /48 just to get reverses
15:29<@orudge>alas one can't change the reverse DNS for your tunnel
15:29<@orudge>only for a subnet
15:29<@petern>oh no
15:29<@petern>i'll have to set up reverse dns :o
15:29<@petern>if ripe let me have 'em
15:30<@orudge>hmm, I see is rather un-nsfw in its choice of advertising
15:30<@orudge>I mean
15:30<@orudge>ie, nsfw
15:30<mizipzor>SmatZ: ah, sorry, was misstaken about fdisk
15:32-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:33<jonty-comp>hmm, reverse dns
15:33*jonty-comp fiddles about with that a bit
15:33<EoD>i'm off for now. Probably back later
15:34<mizipzor>EoD: bye!
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15:43<el_en>"Your host is Your country is Netherlands"
15:43<jonty-comp>ha, that's fancy
15:43<jonty-comp>I disconnected and reconnected my tunnel and the ssh didn't die
15:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15961 /trunk/src/network/ (core/udp.cpp core/udp.h network_udp.cpp): -Codechange: prepare the 'client' side for receiving 'session keys' from the masterserver so servers can register with multiple IPs as the same server.
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15:45<jonty-comp>I need to think of a random cheap domain like I can buy and learn about DNS on D:
15:46<jonty-comp>now I have a VPS, and stuff like that.
15:46<@orudge>except it's already taken
15:46<jonty-comp>perhaps not that 'like'
15:46<jonty-comp>considering all the public domains on are rubbish.
15:46<jonty-comp>like ""
15:47<jonty-comp>and ""
15:47<SpComb>just buy it from a registrar that does IPv6 glue
15:47<SpComb>like Joker
15:48-!-Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48-!-Hirundo is now known as Swallow
15:48*orudge glues SpComb to the ceiling
15:49<SpComb>so don't buy it from zernebok domains
15:49<@orudge>pfft, you don't need IPv6 glue to be able to mess with DNS
15:49<@orudge>you can still run an IPv6-capable nameserver
15:49<@orudge>it'd just not have IPv6 records in the root DNS :)
15:49<@orudge>speaking of buying from Zernebok, how goes the signup, SpComb? would you care for some bank details and suchlike?
15:50-!-Yexo [] has joined #openttd
15:50<SpComb>I've been busy personally
15:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15962 /extra/masterserver_updater/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: handle and give out session keys to clients.
15:52-!-Nite_Owl_ [] has joined #openttd
15:53<jonty-comp>SpComb: that is just the kind of thing I intend to learn about :p
15:54-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:54-!-Nite_Owl_ is now known as Nite_Owl
15:54<SpComb>and look at the figures for AAAA-glue
15:54<SpComb>they're in the three digits range for the major TLDs
15:55<SmatZ>Slovakia ftw
15:55<jonty-comp>I can tell I'm going to get a lot of ipv6 addresses wrong by missing colons
15:56<@orudge>anyway, jonty-comp, it would be quite possible for me to delegate, say, to nameservers you can run on your VPS, without you having to buy a new domain, if you want
15:56-!-Singaporekid [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:56<TrueBrain>orudge: is the DNS of IPv6 ready? :p
15:56<@orudge>easier perhaps if you do buy a new domain
15:56<@orudge>but up to you
15:56<@orudge>TrueBrain: well, will hopefully be IPv6 ready in "Q3 2009" (that's when the ISP hosting it says they'll have native IPv6)
15:56<TrueBrain>hehe :)
15:57<TrueBrain>and ns1?
15:57<@orudge>ns2 and ns4 apparently not, since they're in the US and my US provider has "no plans to offer IPv6 any time soon", despite them claiming to offer it a year ago
15:57<@orudge>ns1, I'm not sure
15:57<@orudge>would have to ask the ISP ;)
15:57<TrueBrain>I can give you that answer :p
15:57<TrueBrain>but I meant via a tunnel
15:58<@orudge>I'm not really wanting to set up tunnels on all those servers
15:58<@petern>i'll be able to do ipv6 dns :D
15:58<TrueBrain>LeaseWeb is very near (in absolute terms anyway :p)
15:58<TrueBrain>lol @ petern :)
15:58<TrueBrain>orudge: well, I can understand that :)
15:58<@orudge>if only because I'm not sure how many tunnels sixxs will let me have ;)
15:58<@orudge>so for those I will wait for native IPv6
15:58<TrueBrain>oh well :)
15:59<@orudge>those servers happily server my reverse DNS zones for my IPv6 subnets
15:59<@orudge>despite not being IPv6 themselves ;)
15:59<TrueBrain>that of course is no problem at all :)
15:59<TrueBrain>just that part towards is not IPv6 ;)
15:59<TrueBrain>the only break in the link :p
15:59<jonty-comp>orudge: I was not aware you could do that!
15:59*TrueBrain gives jonty-comp a book about DNS
15:59-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
16:00<jonty-comp>TrueBrain: well I wanted to get TCP/IP for Dummies, and I'm sure there's a DNS for Dummies!
16:00<TrueBrain>just read wikipedia page or what ever
16:00<jonty-comp>but I have two weeks with little to do
16:00<jonty-comp>the wikipedia pages are far too technical :(
16:00<TrueBrain>or follow one of the lovely network classes tey have at universities :p
16:00<jonty-comp>they go on about network layers and all sorts
16:00-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
16:00<TrueBrain>it is where TCP/IP starts :)
16:01<@orudge>maybe some of those will help
16:01<TrueBrain>as .. well .. it is a 'catch-all' name for data-layers :p
16:01<jonty-comp>except for the &sourceid=firefox bit
16:01<@orudge>well, I copied and pasted it from Firefox :p
16:01<TrueBrain>Promoting FireFox? :p
16:02<jonty-comp>orudge: if you set up something like '', could I break everything while configuring it? :P
16:02<jonty-comp>also, that means I might be able to have once I learn how to :D
16:02-!-nairan [] has quit []
16:03<@orudge>jonty-comp: well, you'd have to install a nameserver such as nsd (which is much smaller and faster than bind)
16:03<@orudge>and then set up a zone for
16:03<jonty-comp>it sounds harder to use
16:03<TrueBrain>powerdns! :p
16:03<@orudge>then it's up to you what to do
16:03*jonty-comp does an apt-get install nsd
16:04*jonty-comp apparently now has a 2001:05c0:1501:1500/56 subnet
16:05<@orudge>you can also have up several gazillion IPs on your VPS, except I have to add each one, so I'd prefer you to be sensible with them ;)
16:06<jonty-comp>well, I don't have anything to do with two IPs, never ind a gazillion :p
16:06<@orudge>that's OK then ;)
16:06<jonty-comp>would you kindly set up the thingy when it suits you, then?
16:06<jonty-comp>and I shall try my best not to break the whole server again.
16:07*jonty-comp makes no promises, however
16:08<mizipzor>ubuntu was my desktop distro, im searching the net now for a cool "serverdistro"... whatever that is
16:08-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
16:09<Sacro>mizipzor: Arch, Ubuntu, Debian, CentOS
16:09<jonty-comp>in that order?
16:09<Sacro>quite possibly ues
16:10<@orudge>OK, jonty-comp, has been delegated to, which points to your IPv4 and IPv6 addresses of your VPS
16:10<mizipzor>Sacro: arch was my first picked until now when i started to search for alternatives
16:10*jonty-comp writes that down
16:10<mizipzor>well, i mean, it still is, i just want to see if its something even better :p
16:11<mizipzor>but i really like that simple/barebone philosophy
16:11<Sacro>mizipzor: better than Arch? I doubt that
16:11<@orudge>jonty-comp: you can therefore create zones under
16:11<@orudge>Sacro: debian!
16:11<Sacro>though tbh debian makes a nice server, though not as bleeding edge
16:11<@orudge>you don't necessarily want a server to be bleeding edge, anywayt
16:11<jonty-comp>I vaguely messed with bind on my home network ages ago, and seemed to get it
16:12<jonty-comp>and of course the DNS server on Windows 2003 at work is comparatively simple to use
16:12-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:12<mizipzor>i want! well, considering its only for personal use... and the biggest reason ill make the server is for the challenge... watching stuff break and try to fix it :p
16:12<jonty-comp>at least I know what A and CNAME records are :p
16:12<jonty-comp>mizipzor: that's what my old PC is for :D
16:13<mizipzor>jonty-comp: thats what my old pc will be ;)
16:13<jonty-comp>it's currently an ubuntu server, which was a mistake though
16:13<jonty-comp>but it has a backup of all my stuff on it, so I don't want to nuke it yet
16:13<mizipzor>jonty-comp: yes, i realised that as well, ubuntu seems geared way more towards desktop and linux newcomers
16:13<@petern>debian's the best server
16:13<jonty-comp>then when I do nuke it I'll use one HDD for debian and one for /home, so that doesn't happen again
16:13<@petern>(and the best desktop imo)
16:13<@orudge>jonty-comp, if you type in `dig -t AXFR', it may help you see what your zone looks like
16:13<@orudge>(that's not exactly how it's formatted on the server, but it's close enough)
16:13<@petern>public AXFRs!
16:14<jonty-comp>bash: dig: command not found
16:14<@orudge>apt-get install ;)
16:14<jonty-comp>E: Couldn't find package dig
16:14*jonty-comp searches aptitude
16:14<mizipzor>petern: well, maybe for a server that has demands in stability... my server is for fun, therefor best = most fun, a stable program isnt fun ;) no hacking in that!
16:14<@petern>not exactly
16:14<@orudge>jonty-comp: try bind-utils
16:14<@orudge>or, erm
16:14<@orudge>something like that
16:14<@petern>fixing broken bleeding edge servers is no fun
16:15<@orudge>the blood gets everywhere
16:15<mizipzor>call my crazy but to me it is :p
16:15<mizipzor>besides, i like blood everywhere
16:15<@petern>as if the scsi-sacrifice was not enough
16:16<mizipzor>and all these package managers nowadays! i like downloading and compiling everything on my own... that way, i find it easier to remember everything i have on the box :p
16:16<@orudge>there is a certain charm to building things yourself, when it all works
16:16<@orudge>there's also a certain charm to typing apt-get install smellypoo
16:16<jonty-comp>good lord, I have a lot of subdomains
16:16<jonty-comp>school? I never remember making that one
16:16<@orudge>and seeing all the dependencies scroll up and be installed without you having to think
16:16*jonty-comp deletes a few
16:17<@orudge>ah, look, Doug's downloading all of Mock the Week off my server
16:17<@orudge>I wondered why the hard disks were croaking away
16:18<@orudge>and 2001:5c0:1400:a::11 is trying to get a favicon.ico
16:18<@orudge>which seems to be somebody on eweka
16:18<jonty-comp>I often see random requests on my hosting account
16:18<@petern>eweka have a freenet6 endpoint
16:19<jonty-comp>oh good, a video on DNS basics
16:19<@petern>or maybe *is* the freenet6 endpoint... dunno :p
16:19<@orudge>good ol' eweka
16:19<@petern> link/sit peer
16:19<@petern> domain name pointer
16:19<@orudge>shame their routers kept fialing
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16:28<mizipzor>im currently running ubuntu, on my old pc that doesnt support usb stick boot and which has a broken cd device... what other options do i have to install a new os?
16:28<mizipzor>ive heard its possible to just download the files and install them into a new partition... am i misstaken?
16:29<jonty-comp>if you have windows already, yes
16:29<jonty-comp>but that's a bit of a messy way of doing it
16:29<jonty-comp>the only other option is network booting, but that's messy
16:29<jonty-comp>and yet another area that I've broken something in
16:30<mizipzor>the current os running is ubuntu, i thought it would never be possible in windows... thought that at *least* the nix commands were required
16:30<jonty-comp>possibly, I don't know
16:49<mizipzor>lol, i think i need to shrink the partition ubuntu is currently on in order to have the room for arch
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16:59<TinoDidriksen>You can download the ISO, mount it via loopback, and run the installer directly. Plus many other ways.
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17:04<Sacro>mizipzor: unetbootin
17:04<jonty-comp>How ironic, Tiscali have chosen this moment to break their DNS server
17:04*jonty-comp has switched to OpenDNS
17:05<jonty-comp>although my computer is completely broken as usual
17:05<jonty-comp>now my tunnel won't reconnect
17:05<mizipzor>Sacro: found the site on google, but my comp is to old to boot from usb devices
17:05<jonty-comp>every program has been crashing with "the memory cannot be 'written'" or 'read' for the past few days :(
17:05-!-ctibor [~ctibor@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:06<jonty-comp>and now netsh is.
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17:06<TinoDidriksen>jonty-comp, time to run memtest86 ...
17:06<jonty-comp>I did
17:06<jonty-comp>but not for very long
17:06*jonty-comp can't be bothered
17:07<jonty-comp>it would be far easier to just take one of the RAMs out and see what happens
17:07<jonty-comp>they only seem to crash when you close them, though
17:07<jonty-comp>either that or they eat up 100% CPU
17:12<jonty-comp>time to scrap AVG and get Comodo methinks
17:12<jonty-comp>it may be the second virus that's got through AVG in as many months
17:13*jonty-comp shall run a proper scan with the Sophos CLI thing tomorrow morning
17:13<TrueBrain>@calc 2.5 / 34.5 * 100
17:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 7.24637681159
17:14<TrueBrain>7% IPv6 traffic ... someone has been downloading over IPv6 :p
17:16<@petern>does that include bananas?
17:16<TrueBrain>traffic is on ethernet level, so yes
17:16<TrueBrain>rest of my stats are http based
17:16<TrueBrain>but I guess bananas is still running on IPv4 via OpenTTD client :p
17:17<jonty-comp>well don't forget there is lots of traffic for your special ipv6 banner logo :p
17:17<@petern>obviously i meant the website... yes...
17:22<TrueBrain>nevermind me latest comment
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17:42<TrueBrain>\xc4\x87a <- who can translate that UTF-8 stuff for me? :p
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17:42<@petern>it says
17:43<TrueBrain>petern: go to bed or something :p
17:43<TrueBrain>I don't really have UTF-8 capable shells here .. so I can only give you the hex representation of the chars .. which leaves me with no idea what it says :p
17:45<TrueBrain>tnx petern, for nothing :(
17:48<TinoDidriksen>It's a Ć
17:48<TinoDidriksen>Upper case C with an acute accent.
17:48<TrueBrain>both trac and the utf8 table say lowercase ...
17:49<TrueBrain>ah, no, you are right
17:49<TrueBrain>they just display it lowercase :p
17:49<TrueBrain>hmm .. no ..
17:49<TrueBrain>grr, I hate tables :p
17:50<TrueBrain>U+0107 ć c4 87 LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE
17:50<TrueBrain>SMALL letter :p
17:50-!-divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50<@Rubidium>just paste c4 86 for comparison
17:50<TinoDidriksen>Hm, my thingy misbehaved then.
17:51<TinoDidriksen>Close, but off by one.
17:51<TrueBrain>tnx anyway :)
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18:02<TrueBrain>the person who introduced an utf-case in a language file should be shot on sight :(
18:04<@Rubidium>the authors of the tool that can't handle utf8 should be ... punished
18:05<TrueBrain>it is more that all our 'strings' are non-UTF .. but by adding a case they now are UTF-8 ... which sucks :p
18:07<@Rubidium>they are all valid UTF8
18:07<TrueBrain>that they are
18:07<TrueBrain>just not valid ANSII
18:07<@Rubidium>okay, I have to admit they are valid ASCII
18:07<TrueBrain>which is still a lot easier to work with ;)
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18:08<TrueBrain>they are only valid extended-ANSII :p
18:10<TrueBrain>why do language authors add a shitload of cases, but never use any of them? Or just one ...
18:11<TrueBrain>where do they speak the language Ido?
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18:22<@petern>non-UTF-8 language files?
18:24<TrueBrain>who was talking about that?!
18:24<TrueBrain>that would be silly :)
18:24<@petern>good oh
18:28<TrueBrain> WARNING: Modified ownname of language to '����������' <- UTF-8 rules!!! :p
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18:29<bobo_b>can i fast forward on a remote server using rcon?
18:30<TrueBrain>you can't fast forward multiplayer games, period :)
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18:34<SmatZ>works-> doesn't work-> www.opе hurray for IDN ;)
18:35<SmatZ>the actual appearance of the second link depends on your IRC client...
18:35<@Rubidium>they're both the same ;)
18:36<TrueBrain> <- hehe
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18:37<bobo_b>same links here too
18:38<bobo_b>TrueBrain: what if it so extremely boring that you either fast forward or jump out the window?
18:39<Nite_Owl>stop playing
18:39<TrueBrain>bobo_b: I say: happy jumping
18:42<TrueBrain>what did you expect?
18:43<TrueBrain>that we opened up a magic head and showed you how to go fast forward? :p
18:43<TrueBrain>it is not possible. Accept it :)
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18:44<bobo_b>i do :-)
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18:45<TrueBrain>I should never ever say again: I go to bed when this import is done
18:45<TrueBrain>it went fast from 10000 to 14500
18:45<TrueBrain>but it now takes as long to do 100 revision, as it did 1000 revisions a while ago :(
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18:48<bobo_b>night night
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19:14<Nite_Owl>need to feed - later all
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19:31<TrueBrain>bah ... this is taking WAY longer than I expected :)
19:31<TrueBrain>annoying things about time indications .. they are always wrong :)
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20:02<fonsinchen1>bah, I get numeric instability when calculating the MCF
20:03<fonsinchen1>should have used double from the beginning instead of first trying with single precision float ...
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22:27<TheAldo>hello everyone
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 06 00:00:36 2009