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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-04-24

---Logopened Fri Apr 24 00:00:29 2009
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01:31<planetmaker:#openttd>morning.
01:31<planetmaker:#openttd>is it just me or did openttd website just went bye bye?
01:32<planetmaker:#openttd>s/went/go/
01:33-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
01:37<Forked:#openttd>it does not want to talk with me :\
01:37<Forked:#openttd>connection refused
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02:05<@petern:#openttd> pom pom pom
02:05<Xaroth:#openttd>pompiedom
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02:46<el_en:#openttd>bang bang bang
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03:32<dihedral:#openttd>morning ladies
03:35<SmatZ:#openttd>hello dihedral
03:35<dihedral:#openttd>:-)
03:37<dihedral:#openttd>how are you sir?
03:37-!-phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: phidah]
03:38<SmatZ:#openttd>not bad :)
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04:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>fonsinchen: only if a developer signs off on it
04:11-!-KingJ is now known as kingj
04:12<fonsinchen:#openttd>Ammler says he wants to do the same as with Infrastructure Sharing.
04:12<fonsinchen:#openttd>What do I have to do to achieve that?
04:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>you have 2 options: 1) if you want the binaries to be at binaries.openttd.org you need a developer to sign off on it
04:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>2) if you want the binaries at an other location, you need a developer to sign off on it, and supply me with correct information to do the upload
04:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>I should make a webpage for this ..
04:14<@petern:#openttd>if it goes to a remote location i have no issue with it
04:14<fonsinchen:#openttd>I have that page in your wiki
04:14<fonsinchen:#openttd>I can make my own, but it would be somewhat redundant.
04:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>I doubt we can put 130 MB of binaries on a wiki page
04:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I don't see the relation :)
04:14<fonsinchen:#openttd>Ammler says he'd host it somewhere
04:15<fonsinchen:#openttd>how do you do that with Infrastructure Sharing?
04:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>Amller says this, Ammler says that ... what are you .. a puppet?!
04:15<fonsinchen:#openttd>I don't care if you are hosting binaries of Cargodist
04:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>"Hello! I am Ammler but I talk through fonsinchen! BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!" :p
04:15<Forked:#openttd>sock puppy? :) *goes back to idle land*
04:15<fonsinchen:#openttd>Well, you better take care of that among yourselves then ...
04:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>fonsinchen: no, it is YOUR job to take care of this
04:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>100% :)
04:16<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16133 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r16129): who would've thought that the saveload system couldn't handle skipping strings on load yet?
04:16<fonsinchen:#openttd>Just to make it clear: the code is in my git repository, anyone can compile it and host it wherever they want.
04:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>fonsinchen: you have the two options I gave you above; You have one developer signing off on the second, so if you want that option, you need a place to get the files hosted
04:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>if you want the first option (wihch most likely gives slightly more publication), you need a dev to sign off on that
04:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>your job :)
04:17<fonsinchen:#openttd>I'm not going to mediate between you and Ammler TrueBrain. You can talk to each other yourselves.
04:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>fonsinchen: and I am not the mediate between you/Ammler and the developers. You can talk to them yourselves :)
04:18<fonsinchen:#openttd>So, then there are no binaries until someone is interested enough to provide them.
04:18<fonsinchen:#openttd>Simple as that.
04:18*Rubidium:#openttd feels someone is going to get kicked because of a desync error ;)
04:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>morning Rubidium :)
04:19<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: are you ill? Saying morning when it's still morning?
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04:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: yeah .. and I am already awake for 2 hours ... sucks to be me :)
04:20<dihedral:#openttd>HAHA
04:20<dihedral:#openttd>just had a hosting company on the phone
04:20<@petern:#openttd>oh aye?
04:20<dihedral:#openttd>they wanted 1Euro per 1GB traffic :-D
04:20<dihedral:#openttd>now if that is not over the top, then i dont know what is
04:21<@petern:#openttd>a little
04:21<@petern:#openttd>my 0.21 mbit/s 95%ile for ~ £2 would cost €13
04:22<@petern:#openttd>and that's only half a month, heh
04:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>I can get 1 mbit/sec for 15 euro .. 300 / 15 ... 20 GB for an euro ... lol :)
04:23<@petern:#openttd>one of our suppliers charges us £150 per mbit/s per month
04:23<@petern:#openttd>every month
04:23<@petern:#openttd>and every month they give us a credit note
04:23<@petern:#openttd>idiots
04:25<dihedral:#openttd>lol
04:25<@petern:#openttd>our main transit is £9 per mbit/s per month
04:25<dihedral:#openttd>i would not mind such an offer
04:26<@petern:#openttd>(we're too small to do public peering)
04:26<dihedral:#openttd>:-(
04:26<dihedral:#openttd>i just want a decent box that'll run esx-i
04:26<@petern:#openttd>peering exchanges are not cheap, despite being non-profit, generally.
04:26<@petern:#openttd>if you do a lot of traffic it's cheaper than transit
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04:27<dihedral:#openttd>oh - the company wanted more than 100Euros / month just for 1U + power
04:27<@petern:#openttd>power *is* expensive these days
04:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: I might hope ;) (that peering is cheaper than transit ;))
04:27<@petern:#openttd>TrueBrain, yeah, we don't do enough traffic to make it cheaper though
04:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>transit never gets cheap :(
04:28<@petern:#openttd>it is!
04:29*TrueBrain:#openttd considers flaming a user for starting AGAIN why richk does what he does ... not only in the wrong topic, also completely against the wishes of richk :p
04:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>maybe I should just remove the reply to Spam Bin
04:30<dihedral:#openttd>no just lock the thread
04:30<dihedral:#openttd>:-P
04:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>the thread is fine
04:30<dihedral:#openttd>then richk cannot reply either :-D
04:31<dihedral:#openttd>lets all flame him and lock the topic :-P
04:34*TrueBrain:#openttd decides to do the latter ... move to Spam Bin, and send nice PM :)
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04:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>a pider made a web overnight over my drinking cup :(
04:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>pider = spider
04:50<dihedral:#openttd>YUMM
04:50<dihedral:#openttd>glad to hear it was only over night, and not over the last week :-P
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04:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>a full blue sky today ... hmm ..
04:55*TrueBrain:#openttd hugs blue skies
04:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>so, who knows a funny joke?
04:58<dihedral:#openttd>uh uh uh
04:59<dihedral:#openttd>why were all the numbers afraid of seven?
04:59<Noldo:#openttd>what is a difference between Rommel and a clock?
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05:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>do tell
05:01<Noldo:#openttd>clock does forward and says tic-tac, Rommel goes backwards and says tactic
05:02<Noldo:#openttd>and it's not my fault that clock really say tic-toc in english
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05:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>ghehe :)
05:06<@petern:#openttd>:s
05:06<@petern:#openttd>bacon & egg bap
05:06<@petern:#openttd>had a pile of bacon
05:06<@petern:#openttd>and
05:06<@petern:#openttd>she added more
05:06<@petern:#openttd>:D :D :D
05:13<SmatZ:#openttd>mmm bacon
05:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm 'she'
05:14<SmatZ:#openttd>:-D
05:14<@petern:#openttd>...
05:18<SmatZ:#openttd>there's no such thing as "too much bacon"
05:20<@petern:#openttd>indeed
05:21<@petern:#openttd>i don't get the "'she'" though :/
05:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>maybe for the best ...
05:21<SmatZ:#openttd>TrueBrain is dreaming about a girl :)
05:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am trying this milter stuff via debian .. but it has a poor auto-configure
05:22<@petern:#openttd>maybe he doesn't encounter many
05:22<@petern:#openttd>milter is an interface, not a program :)
05:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>.... no shit einstein :)
05:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>apt-get install postfix clamav-milter
05:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>doesn't give clamav via postfix
05:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>spamass-milter on the other hand, does hook itself into postfix how you might expect
05:30<@petern:#openttd>awww, manual configuration, how terrible
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05:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>even more as you can't really find any documentation on it ... I hate searching
05:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>things should be obvious! :)
05:31<@petern:#openttd>heh, google's servers in psbl :/
05:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>when post-install of a debian package refers to me to README.Debian, it is README.Debian.gz, and visa versa :) Ghehe!
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06:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>SmatZ: there is such a thing as "too much bacon". If one cannot enter more bacon via the "approved" channels it means that there is too much bacon. Ofcourse "too much bacon" results in EAGAIN so you can try later again
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06:15<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
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06:16<@Rubidium:#openttd>what are approved channels it totally up to the person consuming the bacon
06:16<SmatZ:#openttd>:-D
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06:33<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16134 /trunk/src/network/core/ (address.h host.cpp): -Change: do not add duplicates to the broadcast list
06:33<@petern:#openttd>\o/
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06:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>"milter manager will also provide Web interface for configuration since the next release." <- euh .. I am confused .. 'will also' suggests future plans 'since the next' suggests current feature ... :s
06:53<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16135 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2856]: always give the server an already resolved 'client address' so we can be sure the client address is always resolved
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06:54<@Rubidium:#openttd>"since the next" is the only troublesome part, quite paradoxially in fact. It implies that the next/coming release is already release, but if it is released it cannot be the next/coming release
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06:58<@petern:#openttd>pom te om
06:58<@petern:#openttd>power failur
06:59<@petern:#openttd>typing failure too
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07:07<SmatZ:#openttd>:-p
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07:24<@petern:#openttd>yup
07:24<@petern:#openttd>someone had set the smarthost to an IP
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07:51-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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07:59<fjb:#openttd>Hello
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08:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>hi fjb
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08:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>Combuster: mind getting a more stable connection?
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08:28<Napoleone:#openttd>wow so many people ;P
08:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>what else did you expect? :)
08:28<Napoleone:#openttd>hello all
08:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>no worries, most of them never said a word :)
08:28<SmatZ:#openttd>prosit :)
08:28<Napoleone:#openttd>well less than 100 ;P
08:28<Napoleone:#openttd>prosit?
08:28<SmatZ:#openttd>[14:28:04] --> Napoleone has joined this channel (~prosit@86.52.62.123).
08:29<Napoleone:#openttd>lol
08:29<SmatZ:#openttd>your name?
08:29<Napoleone:#openttd>naa
08:29-!-Napoleone is now known as LebQzz
08:30<LebQzz:#openttd>well i just wanted to know how to get ai working
08:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>download one, start one, done! :)
08:33<LebQzz:#openttd>hehe download where ;P
08:33<+glx:#openttd>use openttd :)
08:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>Online Content button?
08:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>how up-to-date is landscape_grid.html? class 3 (house), m3, bits 2, 3, and 4 are marked as not having a real meaning, but landscape.html assigned them to newhouses triggers?
08:35<+glx:#openttd>hmm good question :)
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08:36<LebQzz:#openttd>hmm where is the ai in the openttd online content ;P
08:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>under Type AI
08:37<planetmaker:#openttd>those which say "AI"?
08:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>just an idea :)
08:37<+glx:#openttd>the category is "AI" for them
08:37<+glx:#openttd>there are also "NewGRF", "Scenarios", "Heightmap"
08:38<LebQzz:#openttd>aaah
08:38<LebQzz:#openttd>then it makes sense ;P
08:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>what? OpenTTD makes sense? NO WAY! :p
08:39<LebQzz:#openttd>hehe
08:39<LebQzz:#openttd>i only got newgrf under type hmm
08:39<planetmaker:#openttd>you have a running game?
08:39<+glx:#openttd>TrueBrain: about docs, I think it's because these bits have a meaning only for newhouses, and are free otherwise
08:39<LebQzz:#openttd>lol im just stupid ;P
08:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: so they are not free :)
08:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: m7 bits 4 to 7 have the same; only used with newhouses
08:41<LebQzz:#openttd>what ai would you suggest?
08:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>all of them! :)
08:43<LebQzz:#openttd>just install all of em?
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08:46*TrueBrain:#openttd reimports WT3 database, to validate all strings :)
08:46<SmatZ:#openttd>:o)
08:49<+glx:#openttd>TrueBrain: I found why it's like that in doc :)
08:49<+glx:#openttd>there are only 2 value for house triggers (1 and 2)
08:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>then why are there so many bits reserved? Any possible future extension?
08:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>as else it means we have 2 bits free for everything to handle multi-climate :p
08:50<+glx:#openttd>probably (unless the spec says it should reserve 5 bits)
08:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>btw, glx, 2 values (1 and 2), or 2 flags (so values 0, 1, 2, 3)
08:52<+glx:#openttd>values
08:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>so it only requires 1 bit :p
08:52<+glx:#openttd>well 0 is also a value :)
08:52<+glx:#openttd>anyway I'm trying to follow the code
08:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>so not only 2 values, but 3 values ;)
08:54-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
08:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>@kban [com]buster 3600 Please come back if your connection is stable
08:54<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: Error: [com] is not in #openttd.
08:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol
08:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>@kban "[com]buster" 3600 Please come back if your connection is stable
08:54-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] by DorpsGek
08:54-!-[com]buster was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Please come back if your connection is stable]
08:55<pavel1269:#openttd>ban for this? why?
08:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>for days now he joins/leaves every 30 or 40 minutes, but not in the early morning :p
08:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: typical user, which rarely says anything at all, and only joins/leaves (on timeout). Annoys me :)
08:56<pavel1269:#openttd>true
08:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>@seen combuster
08:56<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: combuster was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Combuster> I moved the station to connected the other
08:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>he talked last 4 weeks ago :p
08:57<pavel1269:#openttd>:-)
08:57<pavel1269:#openttd>but he talked! :-)
08:57<pavel1269:#openttd>@seen db48x
08:57<@DorpsGek:#openttd>pavel1269: db48x was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: * db48x scowls at fixed-point math
08:57<pavel1269:#openttd>hmm? :-)
08:57<Prof_Frink:#openttd>TrueBrain: You could always just /ignore JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS from him
08:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: but db48x doesn't timeout all the time :)
08:57-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:57<pavel1269:#openttd>:D
08:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>I wonder in general how people manage to timeout EVERY HOUR
08:58<pavel1269:#openttd>isp?
08:58<pavel1269:#openttd>not their problem?
08:58<Prof_Frink:#openttd>IloSP.
08:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>either you have a sucky wireless, or you need to have a GOOD TALK with your provider
08:58<pavel1269:#openttd>well i timeout on quakenet every 2-3hours ....
08:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>try an other server :)
08:58<pavel1269:#openttd>here, thats like once per day
08:59<+glx:#openttd>"sucky wireless" == pleonasm ;)
08:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: fair enough :)
08:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>the other day my professor finally explained to me why wireless is sucky
08:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>and that 54mbps doesn't mean 54 mbps transfer speeds (more a factor 10 less :p)
09:00<Prof_Frink:#openttd>It's because of the lack of wires.
09:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>mostly, yes :)
09:00<pavel1269:#openttd>can you explain then why? :-)
09:00<pavel1269:#openttd>i have cable btw ;)
09:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>pure overhead!
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09:00<+glx:#openttd>it's only a "commercial" thing
09:00<Prof_Frink:#openttd>If you have wires, the packets can hold onto them, so they don't get lost. No wires and they wander off all over the place.
09:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>each bit you send over a witeless is coded with a chip, which can be up to 8 bits ... so every single bit becomes 8 bites in wireless :s
09:00<+glx:#openttd>people don't like cables so they invented wireless
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09:01<pavel1269:#openttd>:-O
09:01<reldred:#openttd>I <3 cables
09:01<pavel1269:#openttd>you ass cables? :P
09:01<reldred:#openttd>But then, I'm a phone tech, I'm up to my ass in cables all days
09:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>you pipe '3' to your I and get cables?
09:01<Prof_Frink:#openttd>1180/1180!
09:01*pavel1269:#openttd knows what do you mean
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09:02<pavel1269:#openttd>TrueBrain: whats reason, to make from 1bit ... 8bits?
09:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>chips
09:02<pavel1269:#openttd>you send 8x the same to make sure? :-D
09:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>multiple users over 1 channel, why you know which user is who
09:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>and very good error recovery :)
09:03<pavel1269:#openttd>hmm
09:03<pavel1269:#openttd>so 7bits info about sender? :-(
09:03<pavel1269:#openttd>*:-)
09:03<pavel1269:#openttd>info ... well ....
09:03<+glx:#openttd> <TrueBrain> and very good error recovery :) <-- works only if you can get the packets :)
09:04<pavel1269:#openttd>:-D
09:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: no, error recovery on bit-level, nothing to do with packets :)
09:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>wireless packets itself have .. I believe 7 bit error recovery
09:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>crc-16, x^8 + ...
09:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>so, yes, 7 bits it can recover, on packet level
09:04<+glx:#openttd>so when you actually receive the bit you know it's correct
09:05-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db013ce.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: brb]
09:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: and no, there is not 7 bit of info about the sender :) It works a bit more clever
09:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>let me check if I can find it on the web ..
09:05<reldred:#openttd>Beh, I prefer cables
09:07<pavel1269:#openttd>x^8 ? .... 0^whatever = 0, 1^whatever = 1 :-)
09:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check :p
09:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>those crcs are polynomes
09:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>hence my x^8 notation :)
09:09<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Like... a very small pirate's pet?
09:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSSS <- doesn't really explain how it works :p Sucky wikipedia :(
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09:12<Xaroth:#openttd>TB stop confusing them with useless info :P
09:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>Xaroth: useless .. yeah, for normal users it is completely useless :)
09:12<Xaroth:#openttd>they'll have headaches for the next 5 years
09:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>sad thing is that I need to know it inside out for the next few weeks ..
09:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>blegh :(
09:12<Xaroth:#openttd>sucks to be you then :)
09:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>yup :)
09:12<reldred:#openttd>TrueBrain: what are you working on?
09:13<Xaroth:#openttd>hmm.. payday today, and already have enough plans for next week to spend it all :/
09:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: passing a few classes :)
09:13<reldred:#openttd>TrueBrain: Ahh, boooring.
09:13*reldred:#openttd managed to sneak into his industry without even a highschool certificate
09:13<reldred:#openttd>Technically I failed highshcool, but nevermind that.
09:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>well, it is nice to know such things from a theory point of view :)
09:14<reldred:#openttd>I prefer to learn in the field :)
09:14<reldred:#openttd>Works better for me
09:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>easier :)
09:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>currently reading through CCNA material .. when you have a bit of experience, you laugh your ass off
09:14<@Belugas:#openttd>hello all
09:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>still it is nice to read how a few things were meant to be used :)
09:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>howdie Belugas
09:15<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, I did half my CCNA when I was younger.
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09:15<Xaroth:#openttd>CCNA was a pain in the ass :/
09:15<Xaroth:#openttd>lo Belugas
09:15<reldred:#openttd>The company I work for is going to start selling cisco data and telephony allongside the NEC telephony we also sell, since I'm also the only tech left in the company, I'll have to get back up to speed again.
09:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>Xaroth: CCNA is a joke, sorry to say ..
09:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>even more the first part
09:16<@petern:#openttd>Belugas :D
09:16<reldred:#openttd>The others resigned this week, nothing dire that should make me want to run for the hills, but anyways.
09:16<Xaroth:#openttd>TrueBrain: hence, pain in the ass :/
09:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>WT3 Database design, THAT is a pain in the ass :)
09:17<reldred:#openttd>I found CCNA1 explained things in the wrong order, from the application layer down when it really would have made better sense explaining it from the bare theory of data transmission working upwards to the application layer.
09:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: I agree
09:17-!-OsteHovel [~weechat@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>worse, they use the OSI model over and over .. where there is no real implemention of the OSI model
09:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>(which they tell you too :p)
09:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>like you get explained something complex, after which you are told you can forget it as it is never used anyway
09:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>useless :p
09:18<reldred:#openttd>I found I ended up having to re-explain everything to the other guys doing CCNA1 at the same time, from my perspective as someone who started out as a data cable installer.
09:18*db48x:#openttd laughs at the OSI model
09:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>@seen db48x
09:18<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: db48x was last seen in #openttd 14 seconds ago: * db48x laughs at the OSI model
09:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>much better ;)
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09:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: well, CCNA is topdown, my classes were bottom-up ... they both such
09:19<reldred:#openttd>I don't mind the OSI model much, some of the theories involved have assisted me greatly in data systems troubleshooting.
09:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>as you don't understand it at all until you have a complete image :)
09:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>'session layer' .. I still wonder what they thought that would do :p
09:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>such = suck
09:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol
09:21<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, I mean, I can understand why the took the top-down approach, but I just think it doesn't work as well. The bottom up approach needs a really good trainer who's actually got some freakin' clue to explain to a bunch of IT nooblings.
09:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think you just need a lot of experience to really understand it :)
09:21<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, well, that too
09:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>but okay .. my classes were funny :) The professor doesn't know .. a lot about the subject
09:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>typical quotes: BGP is not important for The Internet
09:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>GET has url as second param (so 'GET http://www.google.com/'), and HOST is optional for HTTP/1.1
09:22<@petern:#openttd>heehee
09:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>MTU is not relavant in transfers
09:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>and I have a lot more written down :p
09:23<reldred:#openttd>I don't exactly have a huge amount of experience in any one field, but I've dabbled around all over the place from haulling cables in roofs right to programming core routers, to edge switch equipment, and now working as a PABX tech.
09:23<reldred:#openttd>A mate of mine had a CCNA teacher that used to routinely spout some absolute gems
09:24<reldred:#openttd>My CCNA teacher got downright angry at me when I tried to tell her that you can get 10gig over copper cabling.
09:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>oh, the quote of last week: TCP source port + TCP dest port are both '80' when you request something from a webserver
09:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>and here I was wondering why I needed to launch firefox as root ... :p
09:24<reldred:#openttd>Hahah, I had to actually explain to my senior tech who was pouring over wireshark captures of SIP negotiation the whole random source port thing.
09:25<reldred:#openttd>Was a nice ego-expanding experience.
09:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>hehehe :)
09:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>but okay .. I now also know if I want to browse the web, I need to shut down my webserver
09:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>they can't be active at the same time :p
09:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and we had more of those jokes :p)
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09:26<pavel1269:#openttd>:D
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09:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: 10gig (bandwidth) over copper cable is not easy to do :p
09:27<reldred:#openttd>Nah, just as a commercial product full stop she was trying to tell me it doesn' exist, I then proceeded to rattle off all the commercially availible cabling products and networking hardware to deliver it.
09:28<reldred:#openttd>Actually trying to exploit that bandwidth is another challenge altogether, but that wasn't her argument at all.
09:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am wondering what kind of power you need to put on the wire for that :p
09:28<reldred:#openttd>Meh, comms doesn
09:28<reldred:#openttd>'t use that much
09:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>well .. very short distance works :p
09:28<reldred:#openttd>Nah, 100m
09:29<reldred:#openttd>50m over cat6, 100m over cat6a, cat7
09:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>a single coper cable, 100m, 10gig of bandwidth? :)
09:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>cat6 is not a single coper cable :)
09:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>link agregation (how do you write it) allows you any speed you prefer :)
09:29<reldred:#openttd>Oh no, but cable refers to the entire assembly
09:29<reldred:#openttd>Nah nah nah, not link aggregation.
09:30<reldred:#openttd>I mean over a single cat6/cat6a/cat7 'cable', not link aggregation or anything like that.
09:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>currently they managed to get speeds of 1tb over 8 wires :)
09:30<reldred:#openttd>The hardware exists to do it commercially.
09:30<reldred:#openttd>I've installed it and tested and certfied it to specifications to do 10gigabit ethernet :P
09:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>but okay :) I was more thinking of a COAX cable :)
09:31<reldred:#openttd>Nah, bugger that.
09:31<reldred:#openttd>I was involved in the first Krone Cat6A installation in Adelaide a while back, we had the whole thing certified to spec to run 10gbps ethernet.
09:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>either way, UTP (and STP) allow very high speeds :)
09:31<reldred:#openttd>Wasn't too hard actually.
09:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: it does cost you a lot ;)
09:32<reldred:#openttd>About AUD$1 a meter, about $10-12 per network outlet.
09:32<reldred:#openttd>Cat6A drove the price of Cat6 down, so eh
09:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>up to 100 gbit ;)
09:33<reldred:#openttd>The network hardware to drive it is always going to suck, price wise.
09:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>10gbit is coming down slowly
09:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>as 1gbit is 'standard' nowedays
09:33<reldred:#openttd>Funnilly, the customer I'm pretty sure is only running 100mbps switching equipment, but that's their problem.
09:33<reldred:#openttd>They wanted to 'future-proof' their cabling infrastructure. *shrugs*
09:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>at least the cables are ready for the future ;)
09:34<reldred:#openttd>'xactly
09:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>be glad they didn't want fibers :p
09:34<reldred:#openttd>eh
09:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>(a HELL to do fibers :()
09:34-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet704.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
09:34<reldred:#openttd>Fibre isn't too bad
09:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>I broke a few too many cables :p
09:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>I can't handle those thingies :(
09:35<reldred:#openttd>Fiddly, but like terminating UTP ___PROPERLY___, once you've got the method downpat, it's fairly painless.
09:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>@calc 800*0.04
09:35<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: 32
09:35<reldred:#openttd>It's the snipping off the excess and polishing the connector that takes a while to get used to.
09:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>I just gave up on fibers :)
09:35<reldred:#openttd>Splicing is dog-easy wit the equipment though
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09:36<reldred:#openttd>But yeah, I prefer copper cabling, fo' sho'
09:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>r12000 ... sigh ... 4000 revisions to go ...
09:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>OEH! My favorite song of the week:
09:37<TrueBrain:#openttd># FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!
09:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>either way, I am going to read some more about how the IP Header CRC fails to detect 2 corrupted bits in the wrong place ... :p
09:38<Xaroth:#openttd>what are you doing then TB?
09:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>importing WT3
09:39<Xaroth:#openttd>aha
09:39-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
09:40<Xaroth:#openttd>reldred: I find melting/terminating fiber a wee bit harder than cutting a simple UTP cable :P
09:41-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet704.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:41<Xaroth:#openttd>.. besides the point that for fusing fibre you need a fucking expensive piece of kit
09:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>Xaroth: everything related to fiber is expensive :p
09:41-!-ecke [~ecke@silak.asysijd.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:41<reldred:#openttd>Depends what sort of gear, you can get six figure gear that does it, and you can get four figure gear that does it just as well, just you need to be a bit more precise. I've used both.
09:42<reldred:#openttd>But yeah, UTP is much much much nicer
09:42<Xaroth:#openttd>4 figure gear vs a 20 quid do-it-all cutter
09:43<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, but UTP can't exactly do four kilometer runs unrepeated, eh?
09:43<reldred:#openttd>It has it's uses, but the next person to propose Fibre to the Desktop is going to get my boot in their jaw.
09:43<Xaroth:#openttd>heh
09:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: wlel, I have a suggestion!
09:44*Xaroth:#openttd has a 4 fibre cables running 10 ft behind him
09:44<reldred:#openttd>Xaroth: I have 1000baseSX card in the computer on my desk
09:44<Xaroth:#openttd>-a :/
09:44<Xaroth:#openttd>reldred: with fibre? :P
09:45<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, multimode fibre, SC connectors.
09:45<Xaroth:#openttd>nice
09:45<reldred:#openttd>Well, it's disconnected, not doing anything with it at the moment :P
09:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>"1000BASE-SX is a fiber optic gigabit Ethernet standard"
09:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>;)
09:45<reldred:#openttd>But I used to run 1000baseSX between my home server and an enterprise nortel switch I got for free.
09:45-!-Polygon [~Poly@p54B46164.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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09:46<reldred:#openttd>Got the fibre and the switch for free (Success!), the 1000baseSX card was $15 on ebay. Was apparently ganked from an old server, pushed fair hard for an ebay seccond-hand affair.
09:47*TrueBrain:#openttd is happy with his 1000BASE-T network here
09:48<reldred:#openttd>At home, I now run a cheap handmade cat5e crossover between my laptop (with a USB 3G modem), and my desktop.
09:48<reldred:#openttd>:P
09:48<pavel1269:#openttd>cat5e is 400mbit?
09:48<pavel1269:#openttd>or 200?
09:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>cat5e is a cable
09:48<TrueBrain:#openttd>1000BASE-T requires it for 1000mbit
09:49<pavel1269:#openttd>TB: i know, wonder just speed
09:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>depends on your levels and cables used
09:49<pavel1269:#openttd>ah. nvm me
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09:49<reldred:#openttd>cat5e will handle 1200mbit token ring/atm/whatever, and 1gbps ethernet.
09:50*pavel1269:#openttd is lost
09:51<reldred:#openttd>I used to know the exact Mhz ratings of every cable spec, and the signalling methods used to deliver the rated bandwidths, but eh, can't be bothered anymore.
09:51-!-Fenris [~fenris@p5B0D416B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
09:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>fun fact: did you know that the brown cables in a cat5e cable twists less often than the green? :)
09:51<reldred:#openttd>duhhh
09:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: cat5e is 100 MHz
09:51<reldred:#openttd>each one has a different twist rate to minimize the amount of magneting linking between each pair
09:52<reldred:#openttd>Yeah cat6 is 250mhz
09:52<reldred:#openttd>Cat6a is 600mhz iirc
09:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>the only important thing to know ;)
09:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>500, close enough ;)
09:52<reldred:#openttd>Stuff I installed was rated to 600mhz
09:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>okay, we should put it differently: cat6a demands at least 500 MHz :)
09:53<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, it's a pissing match between manufacturers to 'exceed' the specifications...
09:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>600 MHz is btw cat7
09:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>(had to look that one up ;))
09:53<reldred:#openttd>Yeah, I know
09:53<reldred:#openttd>Cat7 specified different connectors though, and STP, so we'll ignore that crap.
09:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>not even fomrally approved :p
09:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>I dislike STP cables / connectors
09:54<reldred:#openttd>When a copper cable is thicker than a 120odd core underground fibre cable, I don't want to know about it.
09:54<Gekz:#openttd>lolol
09:54<reldred:#openttd>Krone Cat6a is gnarly thick enough as it is.
09:54<@Belugas:#openttd>end of meeting
09:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>ghehe :)
09:54-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] by DorpsGek
09:54<@Belugas:#openttd>alleluiha!
09:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: PARTY!!!
09:55<@Belugas:#openttd>naaa.. back to work your slave :(
09:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>r14000 ..
09:55<planetmaker:#openttd> When a copper cable is thicker than a 120odd core underground fibre cable, I don't want to know about it. <--- I usually want to know about where my power comes from ;)
09:56<reldred:#openttd>For data transmission, not powar@
09:56<reldred:#openttd>!
09:56<reldred:#openttd>:P
09:56<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :)
09:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>you know what scares me: wireless power
09:56<planetmaker:#openttd>fries your brain. Truely fried brain :D
09:57<reldred:#openttd>MmmmMmmm
09:57*planetmaker:#openttd is in a funny mood
09:57<pavel1269:#openttd>wireless power ... :D
09:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>they managed to cross a few meters to power a lightbulb ...
09:57<planetmaker:#openttd>yup. Nice stuff :)
09:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>SCARY!~
09:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>I tell you
09:57<reldred:#openttd>What I love is the gnarly power-factor of all the compact fluorescent lightbulbs
09:57<reldred:#openttd>:P
09:57*TrueBrain:#openttd slaps his ESXi server for starting to swap without reason :(
09:58<pavel1269:#openttd>ist it working .... like ... Microwave oven ? :D
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09:58<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: solar power... is like wireless power too
09:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: LOL!
09:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>okay, wireless current
09:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>:)
09:58<planetmaker:#openttd>well... actually, if you live in the vicinity of a (strong) radio transmitter, you could power your fluorescent tube for long time.
09:59<planetmaker:#openttd>already
09:59<planetmaker:#openttd>but the local radio station might not like it, though ;)
09:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>fuck them :p
09:59<planetmaker:#openttd>it's not wireless current. Rubidium is actually right. It's just a different light frequency
10:00<planetmaker:#openttd>and the receiver technique is a bit different
10:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: 'a bit' ;)
10:01<planetmaker:#openttd>well. solar cells work on molecular level while the "wireless power" basically is a nicely tuned antenna
10:01<@Rubidium:#openttd>then there's the moons gravitational pull that could be seen as wireless power too
10:01<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
10:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>in that case, everything is wireless power
10:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>even molecules are
10:02<@Rubidium:#openttd>the rest is AFAIK a derivation from either solar or gravitationally generated power
10:02<planetmaker:#openttd>nope :) nuclear power is definitely a derivation of neither
10:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: I think you can talk long enough to put that under gravity :p
10:02<@petern:#openttd>um
10:03<@petern:#openttd>anyone know how to open an HP 2600n?
10:03<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, won't work :)
10:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>planetmaker: that's not quite wireless ;)
10:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: use a brick
10:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: we can at least try! :)
10:03<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium, true :) TrueBrain then truy ;)
10:03<planetmaker:#openttd>*try
10:03<db48x:#openttd>actually, wireless power uses non-radiative antennas
10:03<@Rubidium:#openttd>and 'solar power' is in effect the means to transport nuclear power
10:03<db48x:#openttd>antennas so badly tuned that they don't work
10:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>well, nuclear power comes from an electron being forced in an other layer, releasing some exotic particles, right?
10:04<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: no
10:04<@petern:#openttd>TrueBrain, tried that, didn't work
10:04<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, no
10:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: hahaha :) Then I can't help you :)
10:04<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: nuclear power comes from the conversion of one atom into atoms of another type
10:04<planetmaker:#openttd>^^
10:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: yeah, and what happens then? :)
10:04<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: the result is several atoms with less total mass than you started with, releasing energy
10:04<planetmaker:#openttd>kind of the medival type of alchemy ;)
10:04<db48x:#openttd>nuclear power is the direct, controlled conversion of mass into energy
10:05<pavel1269:#openttd>true :-)
10:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: so because there is lower mass, it releases energy? ;) I think it because it releases energy, the mass is lower, but okay ;)
10:05<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, both is true :)
10:05<db48x:#openttd>well, the total sum of energy+mass has to remain constant
10:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: lol :)
10:05<db48x:#openttd>when you split the uranium atom, the results have less mass than the uranium did
10:05<pavel1269:#openttd>TB: if you "connect" two atoms to make one with higher mass, you will also get a energy :-)
10:05<db48x:#openttd>so the rest has to come out somewhere
10:06<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: e = mcc
10:06<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: it depends on what you start with
10:06<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, no. Only if you end up with atoms lighter than iron
10:06<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: that's true for anything less massive than iron
10:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: really?! :p
10:06<pavel1269:#openttd>but it ts :-)
10:06<db48x:#openttd>anything more massive than iron requires you to create mass during fusion
10:06<planetmaker:#openttd>^
10:06<pavel1269:#openttd>you know .... fusion power?
10:06<db48x:#openttd>yes
10:06<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, yes.
10:06<db48x:#openttd>fusion works with hydrogen
10:07<pavel1269:#openttd>ye ...
10:07<db48x:#openttd>much less massive than iron
10:07<pavel1269:#openttd>1hydrogen + 1hydrogen :-)
10:07-!-Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
10:07<planetmaker:#openttd>fusion of iron and iron to, say, uranium requires you to input LOTS of energy.
10:07<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: now substitute m for the difference in mass et presto, the different in energy is calculated
10:07<pavel1269:#openttd>well, i havent said, with what :-)
10:07<db48x:#openttd>if you tried to fuse two iron atoms together, it would require an input of energy to create the mass that would otherwise be missing
10:07<db48x:#openttd>anyway, back to wireless power
10:07<planetmaker:#openttd>if it weren't so, you would see no supernovae :)
10:07<db48x:#openttd>they use non-radiative antennas, so they don't waste power on making radio waves
10:07<pavel1269:#openttd>i havent :-)
10:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: you can also just use the sun as example
10:08<planetmaker:#openttd>I did :P
10:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>no need to go supernovea :)
10:08<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, the sun doesn't fuse iron :)
10:08<pavel1269:#openttd>sure? :-D
10:08<@Rubidium:#openttd>planetmaker: no, that's the task for Mythbusters
10:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>it for sure has iron particles
10:08<planetmaker:#openttd>my word were: if you could fuse iron with energy gain -> no supernovae
10:08<db48x:#openttd>ironically, supernovas happen when the amount of iron in a star gets too high, and the supernova explosion causes the R-process that makes all the elements heavier than iron
10:09<pavel1269:#openttd>planetmaker: well, hydrogen is making energy gain, iron is eating it? :-)
10:09<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
10:09<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: exactly
10:09<pavel1269:#openttd>but it is fusing ....
10:09<planetmaker:#openttd>no
10:09<planetmaker:#openttd>starts only fuse light elements
10:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: in that case, I have to agree ;)
10:10<planetmaker:#openttd>iron is the most stable element there is.
10:10<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: fusing hydrogen makes helium, fusing helium makes berrillium, fusing berrillium makes oxygen, etc
10:10*pavel1269:#openttd 's searching in vocabulary now for "fusion"
10:10<planetmaker:#openttd>you don't gain energy from it by either fusion or fission
10:10<db48x:#openttd>once it starts making iron, the star's days are numbered
10:10<planetmaker:#openttd>db48x, you don't make Berrilium...
10:10*Rubidium:#openttd doubts that such countdown is measured in days
10:10<planetmaker:#openttd>you make C.
10:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: remember we talk physics here .. not everything is what the term suggests ;)
10:11<planetmaker:#openttd>directly
10:11<pavel1269:#openttd>but ... iron can breakdown again to lighter one :-.)
10:11<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, no
10:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: every star makes iron pretty quick .. just not that much ;)
10:11<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, no
10:11<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
10:11<pavel1269:#openttd>stop saying no
10:11<db48x:#openttd>planetmaker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process
10:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: I tempt to disagree :)
10:12<planetmaker:#openttd>db48x, exactly.
10:12<planetmaker:#openttd>tripple-alpha.
10:12<planetmaker:#openttd>not Berillium
10:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>"The triple alpha process is highly dependent on carbon-12 and beryllium-8"
10:12<planetmaker:#openttd>the latter isn't stable.
10:12<planetmaker:#openttd>it's actually nearly as unstable as you can get.
10:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/07/020717080229.htm
10:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>(random URL)
10:13<planetmaker:#openttd>So you need 3 alpha in one place at a time
10:13<db48x:#openttd>my only point was that the star proceeds up the chart until it hits iron
10:13<planetmaker:#openttd>or within 10^-18s
10:13<db48x:#openttd>the exact process isn't very important
10:13<pavel1269:#openttd>great ball of iron :-D
10:13<planetmaker:#openttd>that's then end, yes
10:14<planetmaker:#openttd>well... not of a star, but of its center
10:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>but okay .. we can all agree that we wouldn't have heavier elements than Iron if there weren't big balls of explosions over the million of years we had ;)
10:14<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
10:14<planetmaker:#openttd>if you mean supernovae.
10:14<pavel1269:#openttd>but hey, why everything just dont end as iron? ....
10:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: because we need heavier elements!!
10:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: not perse, but okay :)
10:15<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, because stable elements are... stable :)
10:15<pavel1269:#openttd>well, we need, how do we make them? :P
10:15<planetmaker:#openttd>in supernovae
10:15<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: ah, that's called the r-process
10:15<pavel1269:#openttd>every element break on its own ... false?
10:15<db48x:#openttd>yes, that's false
10:15<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
10:15<db48x:#openttd>the only elements that break on their own are the radioactive ones
10:15<planetmaker:#openttd>yes
10:15<db48x:#openttd>when a star goes supernova, a huge amount of neutrons are released
10:16<planetmaker:#openttd>see. I can say 'yes', too :)
10:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>but now the question: how are planets made? :p
10:16<db48x:#openttd>those neutrons fly through the outer layers of the star, and a tiny percentage of them are captured
10:16<pavel1269:#openttd>whats then "half time of breakdown" every element have it ...
10:16<db48x:#openttd>any atom that captures a neutron tends to move up on the periodic chart
10:16<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, by having a supernova compress an existing gas and dust cloud sufficiently
10:16<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
10:16<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: not every element has a half-life, because not every element is radioactive
10:17<pavel1269:#openttd>everyone have
10:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: there is no absolute need for supernovea to create planets
10:17<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: yes, but it's believed to be the most common method
10:17<db48x:#openttd>a regular nova can also create new stars and planets
10:17<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, there's no need. But w/o supernovae there wouldn't be anything other than Hydrogen and helium.
10:17<planetmaker:#openttd>so,... you need some initially :)
10:17<pavel1269:#openttd>hydrgoen for expalmle some trilions of years ... i dont think hydrogen is radioactive
10:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: yes, but that can be non-related :)
10:17<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, it isn't.
10:18<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: you may be referring to proton decay
10:18<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, yes
10:18<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: proton decay is still theoretical
10:18<planetmaker:#openttd>but you still need some cause for the instability. But that may be any.
10:18<db48x:#openttd>but the theory says that over time spans longer than the total life of the universe so far, all protons may eventually decay away
10:19<pavel1269:#openttd>how do you get old of somethink ancient? .... halftime breakdown of ... C ... C isnt radioactivev :-)
10:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: lucky quantum says the oposite: protons are randomly generated in the universe :p
10:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>(okay, now THAT is an other subject :p)
10:19<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: C14 is radioactive, C12 is not
10:19<db48x:#openttd>C14 is pretty rare
10:19<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, yes, C is neither radioactive. But you can still fuse it with energy gain :)
10:20<planetmaker:#openttd>14C isn't created in stars :)
10:20-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
10:20<planetmaker:#openttd>not much
10:20<pavel1269:#openttd>so, they are using for that C14? ....
10:20<planetmaker:#openttd>no
10:20<TrueBrain:#openttd>and to confuse pavel1269 even more: now tell how suns are created ;)
10:20<db48x:#openttd>when a plant or animal is alive, it's continuously taking in and expelling C
10:20<Forked:#openttd>did it ever occur to you people that it's friday and this is too much for some of us? :\
10:20<Forked:#openttd>even if it is an interesting topic :p
10:20<pavel1269:#openttd>poor TB :-D
10:20<db48x:#openttd>so the amount of C14 as a percentage of it's total carbon content is always the same while it's alive
10:20<TrueBrain:#openttd>@kick Forked we can fix that problem
10:20-!-Forked was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [we can fix that problem]
10:20<planetmaker:#openttd>Forked, no :P
10:20<db48x:#openttd>once it dies, no more C enters or leaves
10:20-!-Forked [~kjetil@presenterer.formye.info] has joined #openttd
10:20<Forked:#openttd>such violence :)
10:20<db48x:#openttd>so the C14 slowly decays away
10:20*TrueBrain:#openttd hugs Forked
10:21<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: I've heard that someone wrote down how suns are created... was something like 'poef' and there a bunch of starts IIRC
10:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: why poor me? :)
10:21<planetmaker:#openttd>Forked, that's the Friday afternoon brain washing session
10:21<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: so if you measure the amout of C14 and the amount of C12, then the ratio tells you how long it's been since the thing died
10:21<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :)
10:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: lol :) And that all happened in the Nth day, yes ;)
10:21<pavel1269:#openttd>okay
10:21<pavel1269:#openttd>will trust :-)
10:21<Forked:#openttd>TrueBrain: aww :)
10:22<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium, that someone must be a Mr Shu ;)
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10:22<db48x:#openttd>the problem with C14 dating is that we have to assume that the amount of C14 that was generally available is the same as it was today
10:22<pavel1269:#openttd>another question, whats real purpose of breathing? its it just "removing" Cs from our body?
10:22<planetmaker:#openttd>db48x, which is pretty good assumption
10:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: wasn't there a publication about it last week or so
10:22<db48x:#openttd>we know that there is some variability, but overall it does seem to have been a decent assumption
10:23<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: you pull in O2 molecules, break them apart to make energy, and the result is carbon dioxide, CO2
10:23<planetmaker:#openttd>db48x, as the method isn't usefull for anything beyond a few 10k maybe 100k years... pretty much so
10:23<db48x:#openttd>breathing is where you get the energy to move about and type things
10:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>(mostly showing C14 is not equal in relative messages to C12 as we are hoping)
10:23<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: dunno, might have been
10:23<pavel1269:#openttd>db48x: so we break apart O2 and then make CO2? :-D ....
10:23<db48x:#openttd>I read once that lightning strikes can create false C14 readouts
10:24<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: yes
10:24<db48x:#openttd>that's called the Krebs cycle
10:24<planetmaker:#openttd>there are constantly messages :) - it's cucial to know the 14C times exactly and the time variation thereof
10:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Radiocarbon_bomb_spike.svg <- C14 against C12 ;)
10:24<pavel1269:#openttd>se, we with this whole cyclus, we just remove C :-)
10:24<db48x:#openttd>it creates a proton gradient in the interiors of your mitochondria, which the mitochondria use to power motors
10:24<@Rubidium:#openttd>db48x: doesn't suprise me that lightning causes fusion
10:25<@Rubidium:#openttd>and with enough stuff in the air, who knows ;)
10:25<db48x:#openttd>those motors put toghether molecules called ATP (adesine triphosphate)
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10:25<db48x:#openttd>lightning doesn't cause fusion
10:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>I love animations of ATPs :)
10:25<db48x:#openttd>yea
10:25<db48x:#openttd>ATP is awesome
10:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://www.biologyinmotion.com/atp/index.html <- hahahaha :)
10:26<db48x:#openttd>any time a machine in one of your cells wants to do something, it grabs an ATP molecule and breaks it into ADP (adensine diphosphate) and a free phospahte group
10:26<pavel1269:#openttd>if i could remove some Cs from my body now and then, then i dont need to breath :P
10:26<db48x:#openttd>that powers the machine in your cell for a bit
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10:26<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: no, if you don't breath your cells will stop working
10:26<db48x:#openttd>there will be no oxygen to power the Krebs cycle, and your supplies of ATP will run down
10:26<db48x:#openttd>the result is a quick death
10:26<db48x:#openttd>3-5 minutes
10:26<db48x:#openttd>aka, strangulation
10:26<pavel1269:#openttd>O + O + C just make CO2?
10:26<db48x:#openttd>yes
10:27<pavel1269:#openttd>and O2 to O + O makes energy?
10:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHmdJtiaNYg&feature=related <- hahaha :)
10:27<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: yes
10:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>can't find the animation I was looking for :(
10:27<pavel1269:#openttd>so we have free energy engine :-D
10:27<db48x:#openttd>I have a good one bookmarked on my other computer, hold on
10:27<db48x:#openttd>pavel1269: not quite
10:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: yeah .. exploit it!!
10:27<pavel1269:#openttd>:D
10:27<db48x:#openttd>it's not free, but it is surprisingly efficient
10:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>how is it called .. an engine that runs 'for free'?
10:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>too difficult word for me to type :p
10:28<pavel1269:#openttd>i will just harvest some Cs and then spray then with O2 and gain energy :-P
10:28<pavel1269:#openttd>haha :D
10:28<planetmaker:#openttd>perpetuum mobile, TrueBrain ?
10:28<pavel1269:#openttd>yeah
10:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: I only know it starts with a p :p
10:28<@Belugas:#openttd>[10:29] <db48x> the result is a quick death
10:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I guess :)
10:28<@Belugas:#openttd>[10:29] <db48x> 3-5 minutes
10:28<@Belugas:#openttd>buhwahahah!!!
10:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269:there is no such thing as a 'perpetuum mobile' :p PERIOD!
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10:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>stop hoping for it :)
10:29<@Belugas:#openttd>i'm a living dead!
10:29<planetmaker:#openttd>huah :) zombie alarm!
10:29<pavel1269:#openttd>TB: if i will invent it, it would be nice ... haha :-)
10:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: what was your time? :)
10:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: it is impossible to invent it: IT DOES NOT EXIST! :)
10:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>sigh .... :)
10:29<pavel1269:#openttd>i know ...
10:29<@Belugas:#openttd>5 minutes 47 seconds
10:29<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah baaby!!!
10:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>most people won't believe that Belugas ;) WE WANT PROOF!
10:30<@Belugas:#openttd>come in here, i'll show you :D
10:30<pavel1269:#openttd>:D
10:30<pavel1269:#openttd>but he must survive ... ALIVE :-)
10:30<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269> TB: if i will invent it, it would be nice ... haha :-) <-- I can prove that you cannot :)
10:30<@Belugas:#openttd>by the way, world record is around 10 miutes... so... BOOOOO
10:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: k, go ahead :)
10:30<db48x:#openttd>TrueBrain: haha, that video is cool
10:30<pavel1269:#openttd>pm i know
10:31<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain, this channel doesn't support latex :P
10:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: EXCUSES!
10:31<@Belugas:#openttd>nope.. nly leather
10:31<db48x:#openttd>Belugas: ok, 3-5 minutes after the oxygen in your blood and lungs runs out :)
10:31<planetmaker:#openttd>:D
10:31<@Belugas:#openttd>granted db48x
10:31<db48x:#openttd>so, where's that bookmark of mine?
10:31<@Rubidium:#openttd>http://www.meridian.net.au/Art/Artists/MCEscher/Gallery/Images/escher-waterfall-medium.jpg <- a perpetuum mobile!
10:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol @ Rubidium
10:32<planetmaker:#openttd>lol
10:32<planetmaker:#openttd>Love his art :)
10:32<pavel1269:#openttd>lol :D
10:33<pavel1269:#openttd>but, somewhere in my republic, if you put a thing on the hill, it does not move down, but up the hill :-)
10:33<SmatZ:#openttd>scary
10:33<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, optical illusions are nice, eh :)
10:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: yeah, if I rotate my head 90 degrees, I get that everywhere!
10:34<pavel1269:#openttd>i saw that in TV! true!!
10:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>I was snowboarding a few weeks ago, than you have that a lot .. that you are sure you have to slow down, but instead you speed up :)
10:34<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, yeah :) I've seen it myself
10:34<pavel1269:#openttd>no illusion
10:34<planetmaker:#openttd>maybe not "yours" but another place
10:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>youtube!!
10:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>:p
10:35<@Rubidium:#openttd>TrueBrain: may I propose that you script your client so it swaps then and than? ;)
10:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>Rubidium: yup
10:35-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:35<planetmaker:#openttd>go an take a perpendicular and see where "up" and "down" are :)
10:36<pavel1269:#openttd>SmatZ: do you know about it? it was at "nova" tv
10:36<pavel1269:#openttd>long time ago thought
10:36<@Rubidium:#openttd>pavel1269: if there is one thing to not trust it's TV
10:36<SmatZ:#openttd>ah, when it's at nova, it has to be true :)
10:36<planetmaker:#openttd>pavel1269, or take a level
10:36-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has joined #openttd
10:36<db48x:#openttd>bah
10:36<planetmaker:#openttd>*water level
10:37<db48x:#openttd>the one I have bookmarked is 404
10:37<planetmaker:#openttd>but that'd be boring ;)
10:37<db48x:#openttd>it was great too
10:37<db48x:#openttd>it was from the Harvard Biovisions program
10:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>db48x: :(
10:37<planetmaker:#openttd>ok. lecture's over from my part for now :) need to go shopping.
10:37<planetmaker:#openttd>cu later
10:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am now trying to find that very beautiful movie about how big and small we are :)
10:37<pavel1269:#openttd>cya
10:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: bye :)
10:38<@petern:#openttd>lol
10:38<@petern:#openttd>fixed the printer
10:38<pavel1269:#openttd>SmatZ: http://www.fjv.estranky.cz/clanky/f-zajimavosti/GravAnomalie .... sorry, jsut Czech
10:38<db48x:#openttd>still, they have other good movies
10:38<db48x:#openttd>http://multimedia.mcb.harvard.edu/
10:38<db48x:#openttd>watch the "Inner Life of a Cell" one
10:39<db48x:#openttd>look for the kinesans walking around
10:39<pavel1269:#openttd>from the site "water is going on its own up the hill"
10:39<@petern:#openttd>trick is: 1) unscrew every screw 2) apply some force to remove panels 3) apply MORE force to remove panels 4) apply BRUTAL force to remove panels 5) curse that the clips are made of some superstrenght plastic 6) apply crowbar to panels 7) laugh
10:39<pavel1269:#openttd>petern: so, you are in? :D
10:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: why the latter?
10:39<@petern:#openttd>delirium
10:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>bah, I hate it when I can't find back movies I have seen :(
10:41<db48x:#openttd>yea, me too
10:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>finally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjHvwSvpOw&feature=related
10:41<db48x:#openttd>molecularmovies.org has a bunch
10:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>(Very old movie btw)
10:42-!-goodger_ [~ben@host81-152-235-159.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
10:43<SmatZ:#openttd>pavel1269: http://kdf.mff.cuni.cz/veletrh/sbornik/Veletrh_11/11_08_Havranek.html it's optical illusion :) what they call hill isn't hill, but flat land
10:43<pavel1269:#openttd>SmatZ: just reading wiki :-)
10:43<pavel1269:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_hill
10:44<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
10:47<db48x:#openttd>http://www.molecularmovies.com/showcase/index.html
10:50<db48x:#openttd>there are hours of vidoes there
10:50<db48x:#openttd>but I must acquire some lunch
10:50<db48x:#openttd>bbl
10:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>enjoy!
10:50<db48x:#openttd>thanks
10:51<pavel1269:#openttd>TrueBrain: that zoom video is .... know but a bit scary :-P
10:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>it always amazed me how 'in the center' we are
10:51-!-Sapakara [~chatzilla@84-245-33-124.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #openttd
10:52<pavel1269:#openttd>this is nice :-)
10:52<pavel1269:#openttd>http://kdf.mff.cuni.cz/veletrh/sbornik/Veletrh_11/11_08_Havranek_soubory/image012.jpg
10:52<pavel1269:#openttd>thats up the hill :-)
10:52<@Belugas:#openttd>Run To The Hills
10:54-!-Troub [~Troubles@e178186137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
10:54<Troub:#openttd>hi all
10:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>hello Troub
10:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! All the way from Germany I present to you: Troubles!"
10:56<pavel1269:#openttd>lol hi
10:56<Troub:#openttd>I've a question related to installing OpenGFX, anybody willing to help :)?
10:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think that depends on the question
10:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>so maybe you first ask it, then we go and see if we are wlling to help :)
10:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>sounds like a plan to you?
10:56<Troub:#openttd>you're a true brain...
10:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am known for that fact, yes, thank you very much :)
10:57<pavel1269:#openttd>:-D
10:57<pavel1269:#openttd>looks like alain at forums stoppped to talk at me at all :-P ... i said to him, that i wont update his patchpack and ? :-) ...
10:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: why do you say things like that! :p
10:58<pavel1269:#openttd>TrueBrain: make me perpetum machine!
10:58<Troub:#openttd>Well, I tried installing OpenGFX as told in the wiki but at the second step already I fail. There it says I have to skip the question about the install folder of the GFX files of original TTD, but there is no possibility to do so (at least for the installer)...
10:58-!-Polygon [~Poly@p54B46164.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:59<pavel1269:#openttd>isnt it jsut ... donwload .tar .... palce him, change one line in .cfg and hooray?
10:59<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: can't you skip that step in the installer?
10:59<Troub:#openttd>no I can't
11:00<Troub:#openttd>you mean using the zip instead of the installer, pavel?
11:00<pavel1269:#openttd>yeah
11:00<pavel1269:#openttd>OpenGFX == 8bpp replacement?
11:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: yes
11:00<Troub:#openttd>then it should be corrected in the wiki because there it explicitly says to use the installer
11:00<Troub:#openttd>yes, 8bb replacement
11:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>Troub: well, that will work for sure, to use the .zip; but the installer should be able to skip it, yes
11:01<TrueBrain:#openttd>Troub: so go to http://bugs.openttd.org, and report the problem there :)
11:01<reldred:#openttd>Uuuuurgh bed time, I reckon
11:01<Troub:#openttd>actually... do you know what?
11:02-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:03<Troub:#openttd>MAYBE... before coming to this question about the GFX folder there is the possibility to not install game graphics at all... I unchecked it... now the installer is not asking for the install folder anymore.... so I think it is meant this way... quite confusing in the wiki though, hell, thanks you 2 :)
11:03<Troub:#openttd>actually I "skipped" it without clicking an (quite expected) "skip" button
11:04-!-DaleStan [~Dale@c-98-223-48-35.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:04<pavel1269:#openttd>:-)
11:04<pavel1269:#openttd>i dont know why you thanks me, but np for me :-D
11:05<Troub:#openttd>because discussion with you lead me to try it again and figure out how it is meant ;)
11:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>Troub: update the wiki :)
11:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>reldred: sleep well
11:06<Troub:#openttd>actually I'm a lazy guy but for OpenTTD I will overcome this maybe :D
11:06<pavel1269:#openttd>everyone is lazzy :-)
11:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>without contributors like yourself, OpenTTD will die by lack of good howtos, for peopple like yourself
11:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>so yeah, overcome that lazyness ;)
11:07<Troub:#openttd>oh, thanks for those really wise words brain lol
11:07<pavel1269:#openttd>not brain, True Brain!
11:07<pavel1269:#openttd>:-)
11:07<Troub:#openttd>oh damn me
11:07*TrueBrain:#openttd is happy :) The WT3 I was running did that with no more than 50 MiB of used memory at any given time :)
11:07<pavel1269:#openttd>inst 50MB a bit much for a web application?
11:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>the IMPORT
11:08<@Belugas:#openttd>[10:58] <Troub> I've a question related to installing OpenGFX, anybody willing to help :)? <-- congratulations :D You're the first one who to cume up with the factor of "will"
11:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>so processing tons of data from SVN to a database
11:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think it is allowed to be a bit 'much' relative to a web application ;)
11:08<pavel1269:#openttd>:-)
11:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>pavel1269: besides, WT2 requires a LOT more :p
11:08<Troub:#openttd>lol Belugas, is this good?
11:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>Troub: yes
11:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>most people who comes here demand help
11:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>and leave if they don't get it in time
11:09<pavel1269:#openttd>so true
11:10<Troub:#openttd>I see, so you guys idle often here it seems, are you all part of the development team?
11:10-!-reldred [~richard@115.131.198.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm .. my WT3 validation still fails .. {P 2 o i} gives the warning: got 3 param, expected 2 :(
11:10<@Belugas:#openttd>indeed Troub :) it shows you are a better user than most new comers :D
11:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>Troub: most people here are OpenTTD fans, helping out where ever they can, including helping people with questions, like yourself :)
11:10<pavel1269:#openttd>Troub: nope, my kung-fu is weaker than developrs one :-P
11:13<Troub:#openttd>however, I will contribute by manipulating the wiki ;D... and thank all of you for the nice chat... now going to install OpenGFX and maybe doing some bug reports (since it is not final state yet) - well, if I overcome my lazyness again :)
11:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am sure you will ;)
11:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>enjoy OpenTTD :)
11:13<Troub:#openttd>so much more as even the original TT when I was a child :D... bye
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11:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>how nice to finally meat a normal user :)
11:14*TrueBrain:#openttd is all happy again :)
11:14-!-Zorn [~zorn@e177231252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
11:14<pavel1269:#openttd>yeah
11:14<pavel1269:#openttd>no wonder why
11:14<pavel1269:#openttd>you should transfer some users to "Troub" :-)
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>now I need to understand why this WT3 subroutine fails ...
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>try:
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd> int(m[1])
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd> except ValueError:
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd> errors += [ (8, m[0], len(m) - 1, paramCount), ]
11:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>seens fine, not? :(
11:15<pavel1269:#openttd>php?
11:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>does it look like PHP? :)
11:16<pavel1269:#openttd>no
11:16<pavel1269:#openttd>:D
11:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I guess it is not PHP ;)
11:16<pavel1269:#openttd>isnt missions some function just before the "(" ?
11:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>[] <- array, () <- set
11:17<pavel1269:#openttd>or what does it do (8, 1, 2) for example
11:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>(or in python terms: tuple and list)
11:17<pavel1269:#openttd>python :-/
11:17<pavel1269:#openttd>i dont like snakes
11:18<pavel1269:#openttd>i still dont get it :-) ... in [], it still want index, no?
11:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol, mixed up a != and == ... oops
11:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>errors += [ a, ]
11:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>errors is initialized as []
11:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>so, it is a simple array, where indexes go from 0 to N
11:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>only instead of adding 'a' to it, I add (8, 1, 2) to it
11:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>which is a list
11:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>so to access the entry: errors[n][0] or errors[n][1]
11:21<pavel1269:#openttd>does this works in C/PHP, so i can give a try? :-)
11:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>C: no (dah)
11:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>PHP: no idea
11:21-!-kingj is now known as KingJ
11:22-!-free_kill [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
11:23<free_kill:#openttd>here we go, my timeout time :-)
11:23<free_kill:#openttd><- pavel1269
11:24-!-UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has joined #openttd
11:25<@Belugas:#openttd>[11:16] <TrueBrain> how nice to finally meat a normal user :) <--- TrueBrain is hungry!!
11:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>meet ..
11:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>oops
11:25<@Belugas:#openttd>:D
11:25<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
11:27-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdb24.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
11:28<SmatZ:#openttd>hello frosch123
11:29<frosch123:#openttd>afternoon smatz :)
11:29-!-Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:29<@Belugas:#openttd>hello and good afternoon frosch123 and SmatZ :)
11:29<TrueBrain:#openttd>time to get some food!!! :)
11:30-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:30<@Belugas:#openttd>told you he saw hungry...
11:30<@Belugas:#openttd>was
11:30<@Belugas:#openttd>bllaaaaa
11:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: you were absolutely right :)
11:31<SmatZ:#openttd>hello Belugas!
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11:37<nicfer:#openttd>one question, would be possible to make monorail buildable over regular/electrified railways?
11:38<SmatZ:#openttd>easy to code, but is this wanted by users?
11:38<nicfer:#openttd>well, it may require graphics, but it would simplify upgrading
11:38<SmatZ:#openttd>there is a rail convert tool available
11:38<nicfer:#openttd>that doesn't work for monorail
11:38<SmatZ:#openttd>doesn't work?
11:39<nicfer:#openttd>trains get stuck if you try
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>haha
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>sure
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>you can't put your heavy steam train on monorail track
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>so, no
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>this won't be possible
11:39<nicfer:#openttd>and if you have thousands of trains, it would be a nightmare to change them all to monorail
11:39<SmatZ:#openttd>maybe with the exception of depots
11:39-!-goodger_ is now known as goodger
11:40<SmatZ:#openttd>send to depot, sell, convert, build new trains
11:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>nicfer: I did that once in my life ... with TTD .. without conversion tools .... a HELL! :)
11:40<@petern:#openttd>it'll be easy with my railtypes code
11:40<@petern:#openttd>you can make a grf that'll make all rail types compatible
11:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: so finish it! :)
11:40<SmatZ:#openttd>TrueBrain: without mass send to depot function, shared orders and such :) but TTD had 80 trains limit
11:40<@petern:#openttd>only for the lamers that require that :p
11:40<nicfer:#openttd>my proposal would be make
11:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>SmatZ: still .. I also remember there was an AI kicking ass in my map .. making it almost impossible .. and then you are done! And there is maglev .. .GRRR :p
11:41<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
11:41<nicfer:#openttd>ouch, enter instead of backspace
11:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>nicfer: Make it possible to upgrade depots with stopped trains in them?
11:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>That's how the Patch does it.
11:42<nicfer:#openttd>hmmm, that would be a hacky solution
11:42-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe7c5.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
11:42<nicfer:#openttd>but my initial idea was a hybrid (electric) railway-monorail track
11:42<SmatZ:#openttd>Patch allows normal trains on maglev track :-p
11:43<SmatZ:#openttd>or at least, allowed in the past (with cheats)
11:43<Prof_Frink:#openttd>SmatZ: Yes, but you could upgrade depots without cheats
11:45<nicfer:#openttd>it's clear what I want with 'hybrid mono-dual rail' no?
11:46<SmatZ:#openttd>Prof_Frink: I didn't know that, it's been quite long time :-x
11:46-!-UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:46<nicfer:#openttd>a track that allows both regular steam/diesel/(electric)/monorail tracks
11:46-!-thingwath [~thingwath@wired-65.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.]
11:46-!-UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has joined #openttd
11:47<@petern:#openttd>16:40 <@petern> it'll be easy with my railtypes code
11:47<@petern:#openttd>16:40 <@petern> you can make a grf that'll make all rail types compatible
11:47<@petern:#openttd>maybe i'm talking to myself :s
11:47<SmatZ:#openttd>:-(
11:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>[17:40] <TrueBrain> petern: so finish it! :)
11:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>:p
11:49<@petern:#openttd>16:47 <@petern> give me beer
11:49<@petern:#openttd>[16:47] <TrueBrain> petern: okay
11:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>petern: weird IRC client you have, it randomly changes timestamp format :p
11:49<@petern:#openttd>madness i say
11:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>there, beer
11:50<SmatZ:#openttd>mmmm beer
11:50<SmatZ:#openttd>reminds me of fridge :)
11:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>it takes 12 minutes to revalidate all WT3 strings ...
11:51-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:51<@petern:#openttd>slow!
11:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>yup
11:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>167,701 records + 10,116 records ..
11:52<Forked:#openttd>beer. good!
11:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>I send petern some beer
11:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>I hope he likes it
11:53<SmatZ:#openttd> /proc/self < /dev/beer
11:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>SmatZ: you want beer too?
11:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>there
11:54<SmatZ:#openttd>thank you, TrueBrain
11:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>I can send beer for free to everyone :)
11:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>email is such a nice invention
11:55<Forked:#openttd>I sense a dissapointment in the ..brewing
11:55<Forked:#openttd>heheheheh.. I kill myself..
11:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>please don't
11:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>then we have to explain that to the cops and stuff
11:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>was annoying enough last time
11:56<Forked:#openttd>was it someone who didn't get their überpatch into trunk?
11:58*TrueBrain:#openttd slaps planetmaker for breaking my validation routine:
11:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>"{GOLD}Wir haben {G "einen" "eine" "ein" ""} neue{G n "" s ""} {0:STRING} entwickelt. {}Besteht Interesse, {G 0 den die das die} {0:STRING} ein Jahr lang exklusiv zu nutzen, so dass wir die Funktionen testen können, bevor {G 0 er sie es sie} allgemein zur Verfügung gestellt {G 0 wird wird wird werden}?"
11:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>twice using {0:STRING} ... pfff ..
11:58<Forked:#openttd>you're pasting puke onto my screen :\
12:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>of the 167k strings, there are 5k strings marked as 'possible invalid' :) Not bad ;)
12:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>of the 167k strings, there are 136k strings of which I can't figure out the author
12:03<SmatZ:#openttd>TrueBrain: received your beer :)
12:03<SmatZ:#openttd>mmm stout :)
12:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>a real Beer from Stout, yes :)
12:04<SmatZ:#openttd>:-)
12:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>SmatZ: and I promise you this, if you ever visit me, you will get a real one :)
12:04<SmatZ:#openttd>you are very kind :)
12:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>880 strings have cases
12:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol ... I think we can safely say that cases are a useless addition to strgen :p
12:04<@petern:#openttd>hmm?
12:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>527 strings have a gender ..
12:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>(out of the 167k!)
12:05<@petern:#openttd>it's just german :p
12:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>we have 3271 strings, 92 command, and 3609 commands used in all the strings
12:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>@openttd commit 7787
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: Commit by miham :: r7787 /trunk/src/lang (7 files in 2 dirs) (2007-01-03 06:50:31 UTC)
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-03 07:49:50
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: czech - 2 changed by joeprusa (2)
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: danish - 80 changed by MiR (80)
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: esperanto - 1 fixed, 3 changed by LaPingvino (4)
12:07<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: (...)
12:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>since begin 2007 there were 681 language commits
12:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>enough useless stats :)
12:09-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db013ce.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
12:10<@Belugas:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=43313 <-- /me votes to remove the console. One day, it will be asked to shutdown the computer from the console
12:10<SmatZ:#openttd>hehe
12:10*SmatZ:#openttd doesn't really care
12:11<SmatZ:#openttd>except every console command means ~50 lines of code
12:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>sq_console required :p
12:13<SmatZ:#openttd>indeed
12:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>not that it reduces the amount of lines needed to add something
12:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>but at least it makes it easier :)
12:14<SmatZ:#openttd>so everyone can code her/his own commands
12:14<SmatZ:#openttd>with limitations though...
12:16-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )]
12:17<@Belugas:#openttd>sometimes, when he calms down, richk is reasonnable. and makes sens here and there
12:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: yup
12:17<+glx:#openttd>[17:18:51] <TrueBrain> lol, mixed up a != and == ... oops <-- I noticed the same thing in ottd_depend last night :)
12:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: ghehe :)
12:18<+glx:#openttd>anyway makedepend really miss a lot of dependencies
12:18<@Belugas:#openttd>sq_console? i tough it was dead. Is it?
12:18<+glx:#openttd>(while my version has one too many)
12:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: till someone revive it ;)
12:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: ghehe :) Which one?
12:19<+glx:#openttd>osx_stdafx.h
12:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>nasty :)
12:19<@Belugas:#openttd>dihedral! to the breath to breath ressurection!
12:20<@Belugas:#openttd>p.s: i do not care, really... it was just out of curiosity
12:20<+glx:#openttd>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/makefile.dep.diff
12:20<+glx:#openttd>(oh and my version is "compatible" with makedepend
12:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: I told makedepend to ignore the objs dir, so that is correct :)
12:21-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F3AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:21<TrueBrain:#openttd>+yapf/yapf_ship.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/depot_map.h <- weird! :)
12:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: looks good :) How did you solve #if? Via a lexer?
12:22<+glx:#openttd>#if is not solved yet :)
12:22<+glx:#openttd>that's why osx_stdafx.h is in
12:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>ah :)
12:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>if that is the only file, there isn't a real problem ;)
12:22-!-Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:22-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:23<+glx:#openttd> ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/string_func.h
12:23<+glx:#openttd>+ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/string_type.h
12:23<+glx:#openttd> ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/strings_func.h
12:23<+glx:#openttd>string_type.h included by string_func.h ;)
12:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: finish your tool, and add it! :p
12:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>I got to go :) Have a good night all!!
12:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>night TrueBrain
12:24<@Bjarni:#openttd>(a bit early though)
12:24<Xaroth:#openttd>sesamestreet is done, TB goes to sleep
12:25*Xaroth:#openttd runs for the hills
12:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>LOL
12:25<nicfer:#openttd>/0/
12:25<Xaroth:#openttd>(he is so going to stab me for that.. or kick)
12:25<@Bjarni:#openttd>speaking of sesamestreet, did you know that they added a HIV positive kid in the version they show in South Africa?
12:26<Xaroth:#openttd>o_O
12:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>should be something about "this is common and you shouldn't lock out kids with HIV"
12:26<Xaroth:#openttd>sorry, I haven't followed that since i was.. 5?
12:26<@Bjarni:#openttd>I have never actually seen it
12:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>I just read that they decided to use it to tell children not to fear people with HIV and somewhere else they use it to tell people that it's ok to be black
12:27*Belugas:#openttd walks down the street and eat all the sesameseeds
12:27<SmatZ:#openttd>because yeah, STDs aren't dangerous
12:27<@Bjarni:#openttd>kids shouldn't get STDs anyway
12:28-!-Polygon [~Poly@p54B46164.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:28<SmatZ:#openttd>not when they are 5, but they can when they are ~17
12:29<SmatZ:#openttd>I think it's better to have fear of terminal diseases...
12:29*Belugas:#openttd fears STB
12:29<SmatZ:#openttd>:-D
12:29<SmatZ:#openttd>what's STB for you?
12:29<@Belugas:#openttd>Stupid Teenager Behaviours
12:29<Xaroth:#openttd>SmatZ: 17? bit optimistic innit?
12:30<@Belugas:#openttd>SmatZ is in a country where sexual relations never occur before wedding
12:30<@Belugas:#openttd>note: He is not married yet!
12:30<SmatZ:#openttd>Xaroth: optimistic in what way? it's average age of first sexual intercourse here
12:31<Patrick:#openttd>it's not really a bug as such
12:32<Patrick:#openttd>oil platform spawning doesn't take into account the new freeform edges
12:32<Patrick:#openttd>as it happens I only have one lake that cuts a map edge
12:32<Patrick:#openttd>after 50 years it has 10 oil platforms in it
12:32<@petern:#openttd>17:32
12:33<SmatZ:#openttd>everytime new industry is about to be spawned, it is tried 5000 times
12:33<SmatZ:#openttd>it doesn't have anything to do with freeform edges
12:33<SmatZ:#openttd>it's caused by low amount of water in your map
12:34*Belugas:#openttd has an urgent need to find ways to create regions in OpenTTD
12:34<Patrick:#openttd>yes
12:34<SmatZ:#openttd>"it is tried 5000 times" <-- generating random tile and testing, if the industry can be placed there
12:34<@Belugas:#openttd>would make things on awfull lot easier
12:34<Patrick:#openttd>I know it's not the industry generator's fault
12:34<Patrick:#openttd>but the end result is unintended and looks rubbish.
12:35<SmatZ:#openttd>you can use a GRF that checks for industries of the same type nearby :)
12:35-!-ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Quit: ecke_]
12:35<Patrick:#openttd>or I can disable that option in the game
12:35<Patrick:#openttd>it's not an addon-able
12:36<Patrick:#openttd>it'd just be a nice afterthought to scale the frequency of oil platform generation by the types of the edges
12:36<Patrick:#openttd>I suppose the same thing could happen before, if you terraformed flat right up to the edge of the map as close as possible
12:37<@Belugas:#openttd>actually, that's right... when all edged map, should disable on water industry generation
12:37<@Belugas:#openttd>or something
12:38<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe @ TrueBrain - validate better :) And just for notice, that sentence is older than my participation here :)
12:38<Pikka:#openttd>eh? @ Belugas
12:38<Pikka:#openttd>who says a water-based industry has to be against an edge?
12:39-!-thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
12:39<@Belugas:#openttd>The code :)
12:39<@Belugas:#openttd> /* These are always placed next to the coastline, so we scale by the perimeter instead. */
12:39<@Belugas:#openttd> num = (ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_REFINERY || ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_OIL_RIG) ? ScaleByMapSize1D(num) : ScaleByMapSize(num);
12:40<Pikka:#openttd>oh...
12:41<Pikka:#openttd>well, that's oil rigs, that's not "water-based industries"... >_> although I wonder...
12:41<@Belugas:#openttd>well... technically, we do not have "oil rigs"
12:41<frosch123:#openttd>yup, only default industries
12:41<@Belugas:#openttd>it's a behavioral flag
12:41-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
12:42<@Belugas:#openttd>and creation check too
12:42<Pikka:#openttd>will it place industries on water without that flag set?
12:43*Belugas:#openttd is checking, just to see if not over speaking...
12:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: "
12:44<@Belugas:#openttd>tile placement:
12:44<@Belugas:#openttd> /* Perform land/water check if not disabled */
12:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>Last Change
12:44<@Belugas:#openttd> if (!HasBit(its->slopes_refused, 5) && (IsWaterTile(cur_tile) == !(ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER))) return false;
12:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>Unknown (revision 16118, 3 days ago)
12:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>"
12:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>Don't know how old you are ;)
12:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>oh, I was going .. hehe! :) Bye :)
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12:47<@Belugas:#openttd>mmmh... strange.... i just realized the both oil rig and oil refinery are bound to the same check of oil_refinery_limit
12:47*Belugas:#openttd closes code and resume drawing
12:47<SmatZ:#openttd>:o)
12:48*frosch123:#openttd is cofused by the discussio
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12:49<frosch123:#openttd>the only at coastline rule only applies to default industries and is disabled when a newgrf overrides those industries
12:50*SmatZ:#openttd is confused by frosch123
12:52<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh?
12:52<@Belugas:#openttd>somehow... i think i remember something about that indeed...
12:54<@Belugas:#openttd> /* If the grf industry needs to check its surounding upon creation, it should
12:54<@Belugas:#openttd> * rely on callbacks, not on the original placement functions */
12:54<@Belugas:#openttd> indsp->check_proc = CHECK_NOTHING;
12:54<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
12:55<@Belugas:#openttd>a cookie for frosch123
12:55<frosch123:#openttd>:O
12:55<@Bjarni:#openttd>my browser gets cookies all the time
12:56<@Bjarni:#openttd>there is nothing special about getting a cookie :P
12:56-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe7c5.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:56<@Bjarni:#openttd>oh a real cookie
12:56<@Bjarni:#openttd>then opening the mouth is all right ^^
12:57<@Belugas:#openttd>don't colse your eyes then... never know if it would be a real cookie or another word starting with "C"
12:57<@Belugas:#openttd>close
12:57<@Belugas:#openttd>;)
12:58<@Bjarni:#openttd>good point
12:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>though some might open their mouth because of this >.<
12:59<@Bjarni:#openttd>and everybody you meet online are weird until proven otherwise
12:59<@Belugas:#openttd>depend of definition of "some"
13:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>some = a group of people of undefined size
13:00-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:00<@Bjarni:#openttd>could be 5 people and it could be a billion
13:01<@Belugas:#openttd>[13:02] <@Bjarni> some = a group of people of undefined size <-- was not really wondering about that... rather the gender of "some"
13:02*Belugas:#openttd is not the orgy type of guy
13:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>lol
13:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>I didn't mean it like that
13:03<@Bjarni:#openttd>never ever heard about an orgy of a billion people
13:04<@Belugas:#openttd>you did!!!! Wordds don't lie!!!
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13:04<@Bjarni:#openttd>I meant it like you can make a group of people and if you take any one of those and place in the previous described situation they will likely open the mouth
13:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>I didn't mean to place all of them in the room at the same time
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13:05<@Bjarni:#openttd>... that would be some house if it had a room big enough to do that
13:07<@Bjarni:#openttd>also in there modern and free time the group of "some" isn't gender specific
13:08<@Belugas:#openttd>granted
13:08<@Belugas:#openttd>less fun
13:08*Belugas:#openttd goes back to work
13:08<Xaroth:#openttd>for those who missed it yesterday, I updated AutoTTD to 0.1.1.6 : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=43252
13:09<@petern:#openttd>home!
13:12<Patrick:#openttd>argh
13:12<Patrick:#openttd>I've proven that operating a line at a greater train density than the traffic jam self-propogation
13:12<Patrick:#openttd>is a PAIN IN THE ARSE
13:12<Patrick:#openttd>it's like juggling babies
13:13<@petern:#openttd>pom pom pom
13:13<@Belugas:#openttd>ANYTHING is les painfull than dealing with babies
13:13<@Belugas:#openttd>believe me
13:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>I disagree
13:14<@Belugas:#openttd>a cup of coffee petern?
13:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>and I will prove you wrong
13:14*Bjarni:#openttd kicks Belugas in the groin region
13:14<@Belugas:#openttd>show me the picture of your son, Bjarni
13:14<@petern:#openttd>nah, beer :D
13:14<De_Ghosty:#openttd>you could build buffers into the tracks :o
13:14<@petern:#openttd>although
13:14<@Belugas:#openttd>beer makes you sleepy :P
13:14<@petern:#openttd>i have water right now
13:14<@petern:#openttd>oh right yeah
13:14<@petern:#openttd>hmm
13:14<@Bjarni:#openttd>...
13:15<@petern:#openttd>tea
13:15<@petern:#openttd>:D
13:15<@petern:#openttd>hmm
13:15*petern:#openttd practices
13:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>I don't recall ever telling Belugas about my son
13:15<@Bjarni:#openttd>Belugas: what can you tell me about him?
13:17<@Belugas:#openttd>that's the whole point, Bjarni. :D you did not lived the baby crisis at 21:00h, 23:00h, 2:00h, 4:00h and all other variations/additions for over a year and a half ;)
13:17<@Belugas:#openttd>tea is good :D
13:19<@Bjarni:#openttd>...
13:19*Bjarni:#openttd wonders why Belugas presumes all children to be male
13:20<@Belugas:#openttd>son... daughter... a baby is a baby. sorry... i wrote "son" out of habit :)
13:21<frosch123:#openttd>omg, anyone ever used an editor that terminates on ctrl-c :/
13:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>yeah
13:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>I used one yesterday
13:21<@Bjarni:#openttd>I think
13:21*Bjarni:#openttd checks
13:21<+glx:#openttd>would be fun on windows :)
13:21<frosch123:#openttd>I mean without asking!
13:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>hmm
13:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>didn't terminate
13:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>but I'm pretty sure I tried one at one time
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13:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>maybe it was an earlier version
13:22<@Bjarni:#openttd>mac has the benefit of not copying text with control-c though
13:23<Wolf01:#openttd>hola
13:23<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16136 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r16095)[FS#2858]: sometimes autorail wouldn't work; seems to be primarily for OSX users though
13:24<@petern:#openttd>special
13:25<@Rubidium:#openttd>frosch123: does sed count as an editor?
13:25<frosch123:#openttd>yes, my favorite one :)
13:27<@Rubidium:#openttd>then I've used an editor that terminates on ctrl-c
13:28-!-Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
13:29*Bjarni:#openttd wonders when somebody will make a macrovirus to tell MS Word to terminate on ctrl-c
13:29<@Bjarni:#openttd>that would be annoying
13:31<Wolf01:#openttd>another annoying thing is the number of hotkeys presets on visual studio, I use ctrl+\ for the ~ (since I don't have it on my keyboard and fn+alt+0126 doesn't work, and I take less time copying it from the charmap if I need to enable the numlock)
13:31<Forked:#openttd>nah.. it should empty the clipboard on ctrl-v as well as empty the undo log when you use ctrl-z
13:33<@Belugas:#openttd>hotkeys for debugging are not the same in MSVC or in Delphi IDE
13:33*Belugas:#openttd is all confused
13:34<Wolf01:#openttd>luckily you can change the preset, I'm used with VB6 hotkeys since I use it @work
13:34<Wolf01:#openttd>and I cleared almost all other ctrl+something hotkeys
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: translators * r16137 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-24 17:43:46
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: catalan - 15 fixed by arnaullv (15)
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: czech - 2 changed by Hadez (2)
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: estonian - 28 changed by kristjans (28)
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: german - 2 changed by planetmaker (2)
13:44<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 32 fixed by Gubius (32)
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13:49<planetmaker:#openttd>Rubidium: why should autorail not have worked primarily for OS-X users?
13:49-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
13:50<planetmaker:#openttd>neither Ammler nor SmatZ use it, do they?
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13:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>thought Ammler was OSX
13:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>for Ammler is was totally broken
13:50<@Rubidium:#openttd>if it was totally broken for Windows people would've complained way earlier
13:50<planetmaker:#openttd>it's linux
13:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>for SmatZ it works fine, but with graphical glitches
13:51<planetmaker:#openttd>I had the probably the same glitches as SmatZ
13:51<@Rubidium:#openttd>only leaves OSX ;)
13:51<planetmaker:#openttd>:P
13:52<planetmaker:#openttd>Ammler's computer runs SuSE linux
13:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>odd, cause the code flow for that should be exactly the same
13:52<planetmaker:#openttd>yeah.
13:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>ah well... it's just that stuff is usually broken for OSX ;)
13:52<planetmaker:#openttd>:S
13:53<frosch123:#openttd>Rubidium: It also did not work for me, when clicking very fast/short
13:53<frosch123:#openttd>like unpressing the mousebutton before OnTimeout or so
13:53<planetmaker:#openttd>from what I saw, I guess it might have been an issue, if this computer was slower with the test game
13:54<planetmaker:#openttd>anyway. Doesn't matter actually :)
13:54<planetmaker:#openttd>it's just that you seem to develop a mac antipathy as my boss ;)
13:57<@Rubidium:#openttd>nah, more big stupid corporations
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13:59<LUADuck:#openttd>Silly autobans!
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14:58<@Belugas:#openttd>o_O
14:58<@Belugas:#openttd>no wonder it fails...
14:58<@Belugas:#openttd>i forgot to insert the new route as permanent
14:58<@Belugas:#openttd>a\i rebooted and ... booo
14:58<@Belugas:#openttd>gone
14:58*Belugas:#openttd kicks himself
15:21<@petern:#openttd>you better give up and go home
15:23<@Belugas:#openttd>lol
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15:43<@Belugas:#openttd>Kinda I want To
15:49<fjb:#openttd>"... binaries for all platforms availlable..." Looks like I'm not using any platform.
15:53<@Rubidium:#openttd>then you're using an unknown platform (to OpenTTD)
15:55<fjb:#openttd>I was citing Ammler...
15:57<@Rubidium:#openttd>that I knew
15:57<@Rubidium:#openttd>it's equally strange as a release candidate of a beta
15:59<fjb:#openttd>Yes, a bit strange. I never thought to find a binary for my platform. But "all" is "all". :-)
16:01<frosch123:#openttd>hmm, btw. on freebsd: do you also have to preceed every command with a 'g' do get a useful tool? (ggrep, gpatch, gdiff, ...)
16:02<+glx:#openttd>frosch123: that's a known fact :)
16:02<@Rubidium:#openttd>then start greebsd
16:03*Alberth:#openttd was thinking gnubsd, but both sides won't like that :p
16:05<fjb:#openttd>Useful commands don't start with a "g". Most commands starting with a "g" are a pain (e.g. gtar).
16:07<frosch123:#openttd>don't know, hardly use tar. but can you grep subdirectory recursively? can you create unified diffs? and can you apply them somewhere else (without the 'g' tool)
16:08<frosch123:#openttd>resp. does patch say more than 'failed'
16:08<fjb:#openttd>Ofcourse all that works.
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16:09<frosch123:#openttd>ok, thanks :) I needed to know whether the 'g' stuff is the only sane stuff out there, or whether solaris is the only crap out there :p
16:11<fjb:#openttd>Solaris is a bit crappy sometimes. "g" stuff is always different from the rest of the UNIX world, but it is not always better or saner. :-)
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16:12<fjb:#openttd>But "g" stuff is usually cluser to Solaris (System V) than to BSD.
16:12<fjb:#openttd>closer
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16:33<@Belugas:#openttd>fuck
16:33<@Belugas:#openttd>again
16:34<Prof_Frink:#openttd>OK.
16:34<@Belugas:#openttd>before Chip N Pin : transaction type : Swiped, Manual
16:34<@Belugas:#openttd>now : Swiped, Manual, Contactless, Inserted
16:34<@Belugas:#openttd>youhou
16:34<@Belugas:#openttd>my fucntion was just a boolean
16:34<@Belugas:#openttd>youhou
16:35<@Belugas:#openttd>so i need a new function export for the library
16:35<@Belugas:#openttd>youhou
16:41<@petern:#openttd>:s
16:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>:t
16:41<@petern:#openttd>:u
16:41<Prof_Frink:#openttd>:wq
16:43<@petern:#openttd>:x
16:46*Wolf01:#openttd > /dev/null
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17:05<@Belugas:#openttd>time to go home boyz and ... men
17:06<Wolf01:#openttd>bye Belugas
17:07<planetmaker:#openttd>bye Belugas
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17:36<planetmaker:#openttd>good night
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17:49<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
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18:27<CIA-9:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16138 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_func.h newgrf_industries.cpp): -Codechange: move GetClosestWaterDistance to map*
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18:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>pompiedom
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19:34<Sacro:#openttd>zomg he was here D:
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>who?
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>what?
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>where?
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>why?
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>when?
19:38<Zr40:#openttd>how?
19:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>doesn't start with a w :p
19:38<Zr40:#openttd>it's hiding at the end
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19:45<goodger:#openttd>correlatives don't have to begin with w, you know
19:54<@petern:#openttd>wherefore
20:00<@petern:#openttd>Belugas, Belugas Belugas
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20:39<@Belugas:#openttd>there!
20:39<@Belugas:#openttd>still there?
20:54<goodger:#openttd>petern: *poke*
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21:02<@petern:#openttd>ow
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21:19<LebQzz:#openttd>so you guys also work on the 16bpp?
21:20<LebQzz:#openttd>32bpp sorry ;P
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21:23<+glx:#openttd>I'm not an artist :)
21:36<@petern:#openttd>:D
21:36<@petern:#openttd>sleepy time
21:41<@Belugas:#openttd>ho my god :D
21:41<@Belugas:#openttd>how much FUN I HAD!
21:42<@Belugas:#openttd>roughly 45 minutes!
21:43<@Belugas:#openttd>the very first jam of the non-official OpenTTD-Dev band
21:43*Belugas:#openttd is soo happy :D
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21:53<+glx:#openttd>now compose music replacement :)
21:57<@Belugas:#openttd>meeeeh... let say we had a bit of a nostalgic session :)
21:57<@Belugas:#openttd>would not say it fit TTD :)
21:57<@Belugas:#openttd>i found out i did not record the whole session, just bits
22:03<@Belugas:#openttd>tadam :)
22:04<@Belugas:#openttd>it compiles!
22:04*Belugas:#openttd goes to sleep, happy as can be
22:04<@Belugas:#openttd>night everyone
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22:46<Pikka:#openttd>hmmmm
22:48<Pikka:#openttd>so why in 0.7.0 do I get "too close to another industry" even when "industries of the same type can be built close to each other" is turned on? :)
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 25 00:00:34 2009