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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-01

---Logopened Fri May 01 00:00:53 2009
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02:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>morning
02:38<guru3:#openttd>good morning
02:38<guru3:#openttd>random question: if your software has too many features, you're suffering from feature...?
02:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>bloatware
02:39<guru3:#openttd>bloat
02:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloatware
02:39<guru3:#openttd>that's good
02:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>but that is more aimed at resource-hungry
02:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>than future-hungry
02:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Featuritis
02:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>"In modern usage, the term "Baroque" may still be used, usually pejoratively, describing works of art, craft, or design that are thought to have excessive ornamentation or complexity of line, or, as a synonym for "Byzantine", to describe literature, computer software, contracts, or laws that are thought to be excessively complex, indirect, or obscure in language, to the extent of concealing or confusing their meaning."
02:40<guru3:#openttd>i'm doing a review of the software i wrote for my dissertation
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02:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is a common problem nowedays .. resource-hungry even more .. nobody seems to care, if an app consumes 100+ memory ..
02:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am working with 16bit apps at the moment .. those apps are brilliant :)
02:44<guru3:#openttd>:D
02:44<guru3:#openttd>php isn't very memory friendly
02:44<guru3:#openttd>which is why server side it can eat 100M+ of ram
02:44<guru3:#openttd>that's just the price you pay for 100,000 point datasets :/
02:44<guru3:#openttd>at least that's what i'm writing
02:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is more that you can't build efficient memory models in PHP :p
02:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>everything is an object, a black box, you know nothing about :(
02:45<guru3:#openttd>i could maybe have done it in something like python or perl
02:45<guru3:#openttd>but i don't know enough about using those as cgis
02:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmmm .. 'gdb' fails to give me a normal backtrace :(
02:46<guru3:#openttd>well... that can't be good
02:47<@petern:#openttd>feh
02:47<@petern:#openttd>i used to write cgis in c
02:47*guru3:#openttd notes you also work on openttd
02:47<@petern:#openttd>i didn't back then
02:47<guru3:#openttd>:o
02:48<@petern:#openttd>hehe, the adminstrator would keep deleting them as foreign binaries :p
02:48<guru3:#openttd>my excuse is that i'm not doing a computer related degreen
02:48<guru3:#openttd>*degree
02:48<guru3:#openttd>so they have no reason to expect miracles
02:58<kkb110:#openttd>TrueBrain : Did you compile with -g?
02:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>dah
02:59-!-kingj is now known as KingJ
03:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>oh well, many prinfs do the same ..
03:03-!-Zorn [~zorn@e177231025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
03:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>haha ... 'goto *l' instead of 'goto _goto_table[l]'
03:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>minor difference ... no wonder gdb couldn't track it :)
03:07<@petern:#openttd>oh, evil use of goto :s
03:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>evil they are :)
03:13-!-Laurens [~Laurens@ip255-198-208-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
03:13<Laurens:#openttd>good morning everybody
03:14<guru3:#openttd>good morning
03:14<Laurens:#openttd>:P
03:14<dihedral:#openttd>no way - guru3 ??
03:14<guru3:#openttd>shock, I know
03:15<dihedral:#openttd>it is so seldom one gets to see you actually DO something here :-P
03:15<guru3:#openttd>minor details
03:15<guru3:#openttd>I am a perrenial idler
03:15<guru3:#openttd>but i've been up since 6 am working
03:15<guru3:#openttd>and so am incredibly bored
03:15<dihedral:#openttd>hehe
03:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>nobody told you it's a holiday?
03:16<guru3:#openttd>i did get a good 5 subsections of my dissertation written though
03:16<guru3:#openttd>holiday? :o
03:17<dihedral:#openttd>that's what happens to idlers ^^
03:17<dihedral:#openttd>but i myself have to work too :-(
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>got a project to finish :-P
03:18<Forked:#openttd>meep.
03:18<guru3:#openttd>ive got lectures in 40 minutes
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>moop
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>oh yuck
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>you dont get the 1. of may off? :-P
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>:-D
03:18<Laurens:#openttd>hahah:P
03:18<guru3:#openttd>not in england it seems
03:18<dihedral:#openttd>hihi - no you dont :-P
03:18-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe71e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
03:18<@petern:#openttd>we have monday off
03:19<guru3:#openttd>which i only found out about yesterday
03:19<Laurens:#openttd>we have monday + tuesday off :P
03:20*dihedral:#openttd has a python prob with ccsm :-(
03:20<Laurens:#openttd>:P
03:20<dihedral:#openttd>not funny
03:20<Laurens:#openttd>it is :P
03:20<@petern:#openttd>cisco certified sexy momma?
03:20<dihedral:#openttd>i get an exception as soon as i try to click one of those buttons :-(
03:21<dihedral:#openttd>petern, are you at it again?
03:21<dihedral:#openttd>was yesterday not enough :-P
03:21<Laurens:#openttd>dihedral you all day long on?
03:21<Laurens:#openttd>:p
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03:25<Laurens:#openttd>lol its quiet here...
03:25<Laurens:#openttd>only the ttd music plays :P
03:32<guru3:#openttd>wcpe for me
03:33<guru3:#openttd>theclassicalstation.org
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03:33<dihedral:#openttd>guru3: cute!!
03:34<guru3:#openttd>eh?
03:37<dihedral:#openttd>theclassicalstation.org ^^
03:37<guru3:#openttd>i don't see how that's cute
03:37<guru3:#openttd>but OK
03:37<guru3:#openttd>i'm off to lectures now
03:37<guru3:#openttd>see you all later!
03:42<Laurens:#openttd>anyone excited to play a multiplayer game?
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03:43<Laurens:#openttd>:( nobody?
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03:44<Laurens:#openttd>dihedral not?
03:44<dihedral:#openttd>you can feel free to play on my server, but i myself dont play
03:45<dihedral:#openttd>quit
03:47<Alberth:#openttd>good morning, glad to see more people alive at this time.
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03:59<dihedral:#openttd>Alberth: you killed them :-P
03:59<dihedral:#openttd>as soon as you show up everything goes silent :-P
04:00<Alberth:#openttd>yeah, I noticed :(
04:00*dihedral:#openttd pats Alberth on the head
04:01*Alberth:#openttd hugs dihedral
04:02<dihedral:#openttd>:')
04:02<dihedral:#openttd>you are sqeezing tears out of me... stop that ^^
04:03*Alberth:#openttd stops hugging dihedral
04:06<@petern:#openttd>pom te pom
04:06*petern:#openttd waits for his legs to recover from the gruelling 3 mile bike ride :p
04:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how difficult would it be to place signals on waypoint tiles?
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04:08<Alberth:#openttd>not if you remove the waypoint first, but I guess that solution would be too obvious :p
04:08<@petern:#openttd>hehe
04:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, i'd much rather have signals and waypoints on tile edges...
04:09<@petern:#openttd>you need 8 bits i think
04:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what do you need that many bits for? there cannot be two trackbits on a waypoint tile
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04:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm. you might get away with 7, i think
04:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"signal present/direction" 2 bits, "signal state" 2 bits, "signal type" 3 bits. or am i missing something?
04:17<dihedral:#openttd>why on earth do you need 2 bits for the direction?
04:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>forward, backward?
04:18<dihedral:#openttd>that's 1 bit for me
04:18<dihedral:#openttd>0|1
04:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>not track direction. signal direction.
04:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you can have both
04:19<dihedral:#openttd>true ^^
04:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>two way block signals
04:20<dihedral:#openttd>i said nothing ^^
04:21<frosch123:#openttd>as waypoints have a pool you have lots of space anyway, though not neccessarily with good performance
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04:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>waypoints on diagonal track bits opens a whole new can of worms :p
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04:29<Laurens:#openttd>hey i'm back :P
04:29<@petern:#openttd>oh god
04:29<Alberth:#openttd>how does one get a list of changed files between two branches in a hg repo?
04:30<dihedral:#openttd>uh - i did that once, but cannot remember
04:31<dihedral:#openttd>hehe - still need to make a bug report on fs ^^
04:32<dihedral:#openttd>same disconnect thing
04:32<dihedral:#openttd>:-P
04:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>easiest way is probably "hg diff | grep +++"
04:32<dihedral:#openttd>between 2 branches
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04:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you telling me you can't diff two branches?
04:33<Alberth:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: that's what I do currently, but 'hg st' gives slightly more output
04:34<dihedral:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: sure you can, however hg diff does not do that on its own
04:34<Alberth:#openttd>yes I can, but I usually don't want the details, just a list.
04:34<Alberth:#openttd>yeah, and neither can you do 'hg -r other st' :(
04:36<dihedral:#openttd>--rev?
04:36-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E8F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:36<Alberth:#openttd>-r == --rev
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>i cannot remember what i did, so i aint gonna try ^^
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>perhaps planetmaker can help you ^^
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>or Aali
04:37<dihedral:#openttd>or Yorick if you are desperate ^^
04:38<Alberth:#openttd>tnx
04:38-!-divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
04:42<dihedral:#openttd>you are very welcome
04:42-!-osse [~osse@bl210a.studby.ntnu.no] has joined #openttd
04:42<osse:#openttd>Hi, guys
04:44<dihedral:#openttd>sup
04:48<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: alberth * r16192 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Moving smallmap and extra viewport widget enums out of the window structs, completing smallmap enum.
04:50<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: alberth * r16193 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for smallmap and extra viewport windows.
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04:51<osse_:#openttd>should "svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.7.0/ [folder]" give me the source to 0.7.0? It says "Checked out revision 16191." when it's finished
04:52<dihedral:#openttd>yes
04:52<dihedral:#openttd>that is correct
04:52<dihedral:#openttd>and that is alright
04:53<dihedral:#openttd>the source of 0.7.0 is then in [folder] ^^
04:53<osse_:#openttd>But then why does it say "Checked out revision 16191"?
04:53<Alberth:#openttd>that's the current revision of the repo
04:54<dihedral:#openttd>osse_: read a subversion book ;-)
04:54<dihedral:#openttd>or man svn
04:54<osse_:#openttd>Ahh, I get it now.
04:54<osse_:#openttd>Thanks
04:54<dihedral:#openttd>;-)
04:54<Alberth:#openttd>osse_: svn info [folder] gives you details when the last change was made
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04:56<osse_:#openttd>Yup, it's says Last Changed Rev: 15913.
04:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>by convention, "tags" should never be changed
05:00<dihedral:#openttd>people exist who dont understand that ..... i have some of those at work ^^
05:00<dihedral:#openttd>and some people tag trunk, and then make the release specific changes
05:01<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm. i have an uptime of 42 days
05:02<dihedral:#openttd>i had 32 days on my laptop :-P
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05:18<@petern:#openttd>obviously didn't read, last night
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05:48<dihedral:#openttd>booooring
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05:50<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you say that every day?
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06:13<dihedral:#openttd>no
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06:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[Mi Jan 7 2009] [09:52:53] <dihedral> booooring
06:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[Do Feb 26 2009] [23:40:34] <dihedral> borring
06:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[Di Apr 28 2009] [08:55:46] <dihedral> booooring
06:18<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>[Fr Mai 1 2009] [11:48:45] <dihedral> booooring
06:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and that's not even all of it
06:21<dihedral:#openttd>well that proves it's not every day
06:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but it's twice within 4 days
06:22<dihedral:#openttd>and 4 times withing 5 months :-P
06:23<frosch123:#openttd>4 times in less than 4 months
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06:39<fjb:#openttd>Hello
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06:54<@petern:#openttd>grrr, fucking vbv
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07:12<@petern:#openttd>lol
07:12<@petern:#openttd>this guy with the web service
07:12<@petern:#openttd>is... turning the server off over the weekend
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07:16<@petern:#openttd>and he's not included a private key in the data hash, lol
07:17<dihedral:#openttd>hehe
07:18<@petern:#openttd>so it's pointless having
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07:24<Alberth:#openttd>s/he's/he has/
07:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how is "he's" not a proper contraction of "he has"?
07:29<Alberth:#openttd>"it's" means "it is" afaik, so why would "he's" mean "he has" instead of "he is"?
07:29<@petern:#openttd>he'd've done it if he'd known what he was doing
07:29<@petern:#openttd>"it's fallen off"
07:29<@petern:#openttd>it has
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07:39<frosch123:#openttd>he'd'ven't used ' so often, if he'd've known better
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07:40<Wolf01:#openttd>hello workers
07:41<frosch123:#openttd>who works here?
07:41<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>frosch123: that looks really wrong :p
07:42<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: I doubt there is no interpretation of all those ' which is valid
07:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>doesn't change how it looks ;)
07:43<frosch123:#openttd>that's why I wrote it :p
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07:44<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but i think it should be "he'dn't've"
07:45<jonty-comp:#openttd>what port does bananas use?
07:45<jonty-comp:#openttd>I need to tunnel it through this ssh
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07:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>@ports
07:45<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>should maybe be mentioned there
07:46<jonty-comp:#openttd>why how clever
07:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>wasn't meant for you.
07:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>was meant for $admin of $bot.
07:48<frosch123:#openttd>NETWORK_CONTENT_SERVER_PORT = 3978, ///< The default port of the content server (TCP)
07:48<frosch123:#openttd>'so it's the 'same
07:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i's that 'so?
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08:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... orion 2 with telepathic is too easy...
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08:16*frosch123:#openttd likes telepathic as you do not have to build troops all the time
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08:20<frosch123:#openttd>though telepathic combined with "union"-government is cheating, otoh it appears quite logical at first
08:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>because of the conquered citizens?
08:20<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i hardly ever not played union
08:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>union, cybernetic, telepathic -> "we are borg" ;)
08:21<frosch123:#openttd>yup, they integrate them quite slowly :)
08:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>cybernetic is cool, because you can support 12 people on toxic planets, which you cannot terraform
08:22<frosch123:#openttd>also you can live with the farm quite long without having to terraform at all
08:23<frosch123:#openttd>i.e. no need to research biological stuff
08:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it's a little bad if you are uncreative and nobody has farms...
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the AI tends to research all the same technologies
08:23<frosch123:#openttd>I never played uncreative. I dislike to have luck and badluck
08:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it's better than low-g-planet
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08:26*frosch123:#openttd also usually played with omniscient to avoid to have restart the game just after 5 turns because your only colony ship meet some animal :)
08:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>easy solution: take a planet 3 turns away, so you can reload the initial autosave ;)
08:27<frosch123:#openttd>still annoying
08:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or play a pre-warp civilisation
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08:33<frosch123:#openttd>pre-warp is also luck. as your success heavily depends on the number of planets in your home system
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08:42<fjb:#openttd>Which game are you talking about?
08:43<el_en:#openttd>Well clearly pre-warp sucks in OpenTTD too.
08:43<Aali:#openttd>pre-warp sucks IRL
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09:17<@Belugas:#openttd>hello
09:18<fjb:#openttd>Hello Belugas
09:18<Wolf01:#openttd>hello Belugas
09:21<@Belugas:#openttd>good day guys
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11:18<@Belugas:#openttd>Moriarty Moriarty... always so simple with you :(
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11:34<TrueBrain_:#openttd>Belugas: some things never change
11:37<@Belugas:#openttd>sadly...
11:37<@Belugas:#openttd>luckily, her did not mentionned XML based scheme...
11:38<@Belugas:#openttd>-her+he
11:38<TrueBrain_:#openttd>well, that is an improvement
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11:40<@Belugas:#openttd>old deamon following me even at work@work : "Compile before commiting..."
11:40*Belugas:#openttd nods at TrueBrain_
11:40<TrueBrain_:#openttd>:) :)
11:40-!-TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
11:40<@Belugas:#openttd>he... you have a tail!
11:40<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh.
11:40<@Belugas:#openttd>had
11:41<dihedral:#openttd>"So, do you think OpenOffice is doen by the OpenTTD team too?" <- LOL
11:43<jonty-comp:#openttd>and OpenWRT
11:43-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
11:44<dihedral:#openttd>yes, jonty-comp, there are many projects to which that would match ^^
11:44<jonty-comp:#openttd>:D
11:45<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah... "SomeOne" is working like hell
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12:20<qkr:#openttd>I have a problem, my factory has separate drop and pickup station, but now goods are delivered also to my drop station
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12:22<+glx:#openttd>probably a goods train gone to the drop station
12:22<qkr:#openttd>how can I fix it?
12:25<qkr:#openttd>I'm sure no goods train is visiting it now, maybe one passed by it at one time when I ordered trains to depot
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12:28<qkr:#openttd>come on guys, there must be some way to fix this
12:29<Sacro:#openttd>qkr: no
12:30<frosch123:#openttd>you can just remove the station, wait until the sign disappears, rebuild the station, and reassign all trains to it
12:30<KingJ:#openttd>OTTD could really do with a "reset accepted cargo" option, I had this problem before
12:31<frosch123:#openttd>noone came up with a good way how to handle that in a non-potential-cheating-way
12:32<frosch123:#openttd>problem is, what to do with the station rating
12:32<dihedral:#openttd>qkr, temporary transfer the goods using RVs
12:32<Prof_Frink:#openttd>cht:resetthisstation
12:33<frosch123:#openttd>though, hmm, currently I think, maybe just make the station not reaccept the cargo for 5 years
12:33<KingJ:#openttd>What about a checkbox of accepted goods? Then you can ferry away the excess while rejecting new ones. Seems uncheatish to me ;)
12:34<frosch123:#openttd>KingJ: all patches that showed up on the forums that provided resetting the cargo acceptance also resetted the rating, so you can always return to 70% rating by clicking it
12:35<@Belugas:#openttd>Prof_Frink: wrong chanel
12:36<@Belugas:#openttd>#5
12:36<@Belugas:#openttd>whoooaaaaaa!!!
12:36<frosch123:#openttd>are you sure about that channel?
12:36<qkr:#openttd>removing the station and rebuilding it worked, now my network is stuck with trains though
12:37<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Belugas: It's hardly my fault that your software doesn't support this functionality.
12:37<@Belugas:#openttd>... functionality ... ????
12:38<@Belugas:#openttd>frosch123, got a girlfriend? Tell her your going to give her Chanel #5 :D
12:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>lol @ Belugas
12:38<qkr:#openttd>damn it's a mess, now 3 of my trains crashed already
12:38<@Belugas:#openttd>Prof_Frink: I bet you're the type of guy who finds it normal that all that is in Patch is moved in Open...
12:39<frosch123:#openttd>Belugas: sorry, but I do not notice jokes based on single missing characters. at least when you tell them :p
12:39<frosch123:#openttd>s/tell/type/
12:39<@Belugas:#openttd>:)
12:40<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Belugas: Not really. I don't play either any more.
12:40<frosch123:#openttd>nihilist!
12:41<@Belugas:#openttd>hoo... so you're just hanging here because we are damned charming :D
12:42<Prof_Frink:#openttd>That's about it.
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13:17<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Hello everybody
13:18<fjb:#openttd>Hello HackaLittleBit
13:20<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>I have a problem with depots since FS 2871 does nobody else have problems?
13:20<TrueBrain:#openttd>since FS 2871 .. now that is a new way of indicating stuff :)
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13:22<@Belugas:#openttd>2871 is closed
13:22<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Just wan't to talk before filing other bug report
13:22<@Belugas:#openttd>dos it mean your problem is fixed but you have not yet retried?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that's the new measure of time after A.D. 2101
13:22<@Belugas:#openttd>lol
13:22<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Let me explain for a sec.
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13:22<@Belugas:#openttd>please do :)
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13:23<Amr0d:#openttd>hi
13:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>hi Amr0d
13:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>right after war has begun
13:23<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: do you have an active email address of igor2 for me?
13:23<+glx:#openttd>hmm not sure
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13:24<+glx:#openttd>but he's on #libgpmi
13:24<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>I am using very long trains and before they unload in station I first send them to depot at end of station
13:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>he still didn't move the VPS? :)
13:24<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>after FS 2871 the order does not change anymore
13:25<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>I reverted change and everything ok
13:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>after FS ... why not use a SVN revision? :p
13:26<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>fs 2871 http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2871
13:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>even more as it is a bug report :) Didn't know things change after a bug report :) Ghehe :) But I guess we can assume you meant the fix for the bug
13:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>@openttd commit 16187
13:26<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r16187 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2009-04-29 21:12:30 UTC)
13:26<@DorpsGek:#openttd>TrueBrain: -Fix [FS#2871]: do mark the "go to depot X" order fulfilled when reaching any depot, but only when reaching depot X.
13:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>so I guess you mean that
13:27<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>yep
13:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>the commit message is kind of flawed :p
13:27<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>So problem not yet solved?
13:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>I have no idea
13:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>I was just trying to understand what you were talking about
13:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>'after <insert bug report here>' is a bit weird indication of when ;)
13:28<@Belugas:#openttd>HackaLittleBit, have yu tried with the latest nightly?
13:29<Alberth:#openttd>HackaLittleBit: did you try to delete the order and adding it again, making sure you pointed at the right depot?
13:29<@Belugas:#openttd>i think i vaguely remember something about that
13:30<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>I am at 16193
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13:30<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Albert I try that one
13:31<Alberth:#openttd>what fs# is that :p
13:32<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>fs 2871
13:34<frosch123:#openttd>HackaLittleBit: are you using "go to nearest depot"?
13:37<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Alberth fixed it
13:37<Alberth:#openttd>I did?
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13:38<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>I did what you told me to do , deleted the order and made new one now it works
13:39<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Don't ask me how
13:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>how?
13:39<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>thanks everybody
13:39<frosch123:#openttd>you could have ctrl-clicked on the old order to see where it pointed to
13:39<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>ok Il reload the game , hold on
13:40<@Belugas:#openttd>invasion on the Ctrl key
13:40<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>did that and points to correct depot
13:41<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>the thing is that order looks ok
13:41<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>simply after going to depot it does not change anymore
13:42<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>maybe fs 2873 has something to do with that
13:42<frosch123:#openttd>well, r16187 makes vehicle not skip to the next order when they enter a different depot than the sheduled one
13:42<Alberth:#openttd>HackaLittleBit: are you also developing DITrack? Those guys also talked in issue numbers
13:43<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>simply after going to depot it the order stays the same (eg keep on going to depot)
13:45<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>frosch123: I'll have a more precise look at the issue and I will let you know
13:45<frosch123:#openttd>does the order work if you skip the orders until you reach the depot order again?
13:45<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>give me some minutes and I'll tell you
13:46<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: translators * r16194 /trunk/src/lang/ (finnish.txt romanian.txt turkish.txt):
13:46<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-01 17:45:47
13:46<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: finnish - 10 fixed by jpx_ (10)
13:46<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: romanian - 22 fixed by kkmic (22)
13:46<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: turkish - 11 fixed by Emin (11)
13:51<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>frosch123 that is the solution, don't know why but after skipping for the first time things start to function again
13:51<frosch123:#openttd>then it is really weird, and likely unreproducible
13:51<frosch123:#openttd>you can try to post your savegame on fs, so someone can take a look at it
13:52<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>ok I'll do that
13:52<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>Thanks everybody
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13:58<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>frosh: FS2876
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13:59<frosch123:#openttd>thanks
13:59<HackaLittleBit:#openttd>ok byby
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14:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: some people never change :) (closed the channel and realised I wanted to say that :p)
14:05<+glx:#openttd>hehe, yeah his internal clock is still silly ;)
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14:06<@Belugas:#openttd>mmh?
14:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>tonight .. I want to do something completely different .. hmm ...
14:08<Wolf01:#openttd>code a new freature
14:08<Wolf01:#openttd>*-r
14:09<el_en:#openttd>request: make the difficulty level window a bit wider so the translated strings fit in it, too.
14:09<TrueBrain:#openttd>haven't done anything for OpenTTD (the game) in such a long time :p
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14:10<fjb:#openttd>Stupid cyrus-imapd wants accass to /dev/mem. :-(
14:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>you can stop after the 'Stupid cyrus-imapd' part
14:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>no need to type anything after that :p
14:13<Wolf01:#openttd>TrueBrain, do you want to help me to migrate the server to linux? I have a lot of services running on it and I really want to keep them all plus some new ones :P
14:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>haha, only if you pay me ;)
14:15<Wolf01:#openttd>I need only somebody which keeps me awake :)
14:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>I am not your coffee attended :)
14:16<frosch123:#openttd>hmm, maybe fs#2871 was a bad idea of planetmaker
14:16<Amr0d:#openttd>hmm wasn't there a command to get the pw for the coop server?
14:16<Alberth:#openttd>Amr0d: not here
14:16<el_en:#openttd>I'm on Linux, and OTTD asks me if I want to return to *Unix*. But GNU's not Unix, and neither is Linux! What to do?
14:16<fjb:#openttd>TrueBrain: What are you using? Dovecot?
14:17<Amr0d:#openttd>where can i find the pw then?
14:17<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>el_en: stay within OTTD
14:17<Alberth:#openttd>el_en: don't touch anything, leave it alone
14:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>fjb: openttd.org does
14:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>el_en: hit the wall with your head as hard as you can
14:17<Alberth:#openttd>Amr0d: wild guess: #openttdcoop possibly maybe?
14:17<@Belugas:#openttd>Wolf01 -> Nine Inch Nails. here's your coffee
14:17<Amr0d:#openttd>oh
14:18<Amr0d:#openttd>ok wrong channel here :)
14:18<el_en:#openttd>On the other hand, on the Mac OTTD asks if I want to return to Mac OS X... But Mac is more Unix than Linux is, and actually 10.5/Intel is a UNIX®.
14:18<fjb:#openttd>TrueBrain: Then I should consider switching to Dovecot.
14:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>fjb: only if you have a small network
14:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>courier-imapd if it is getting a bit bigger
14:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>big networks: get to know courier-imap :)
14:18<fjb:#openttd>It is quite small, but might grow.
14:19<Alberth:#openttd>el_en: if you interpret 'Unix' as 'POSIX-compliant computer system' your worries are over.
14:20<el_en:#openttd>Alberth: should i hit the wall with my head despite that, just to be sure?
14:20<frosch123:#openttd>true, then no unix exists
14:20<Alberth:#openttd>el_en: if it makes you feel better, sure go ahead
14:20*fjb:#openttd is glad to use a true descendant of UNIX. :-)
14:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm .. still nothing useful to do
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14:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>maybe I should play OpenTTD .. that might be funny
14:27<frosch123:#openttd>mhuahaha
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14:28<Amr0d:#openttd>Anyone playing ottd with a mac here?
14:28<@Belugas:#openttd>TrueBrain : want something interesting to do? download NINJAM!!
14:28<@Belugas:#openttd>and put your axe on it!!!
14:29<Wolf01:#openttd>"So, do you think OpenOffice is doen by the OpenTTD team too?" AHAAHA good one Belugas XD
14:31<planetmaker:#openttd>what? what? I heard my name?
14:32<frosch123:#openttd>planetmaker: how would you set up the orders in fs#2876 ?
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14:34<planetmaker:#openttd>he...
14:34<planetmaker:#openttd>Looks like one problem replaced by another.
14:34<frosch123:#openttd>exactly :p
14:34<frosch123:#openttd>also fs#2873 was extended by a second scenario
14:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>omg, why is the tv program on holidays even worse than on regular days
14:35<planetmaker:#openttd>hm...
14:35<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: the problem obviously is that depots may have non unique names
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14:36<planetmaker:#openttd>and you cannot join different depots to a "goto one of <list>" or make <list> a joint depot (as tracks of a station)
14:36<frosch123:#openttd>planetmaker: no, that is only the cause of the author not understanding the problem
14:36<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... can you elaborate?
14:37<frosch123:#openttd>you cannot set up orders so the train first enters one depot behind the station before entering the station itself
14:37<frosch123:#openttd>it does not matter whether the depots are named "depot A", "depot B"... or just the same
14:38<planetmaker:#openttd>well. yes. So hackalittlebit basically wants something which cannot work with current implementation.
14:38<planetmaker:#openttd>as he would need a choice
14:38<frosch123:#openttd>yup :)
14:39<planetmaker:#openttd>and the "waiting for free path thing"? How's that related?
14:39<frosch123:#openttd>so next topic: "go to nearest depot" currently decides for one depot and then goes to that depot. is the order fulfilled if it reaches another depot?
14:40<planetmaker:#openttd>I would say "nearest depot" is any depot or next depot.
14:40<planetmaker:#openttd>from my understanding.
14:40<planetmaker:#openttd>so, yes
14:40*Belugas:#openttd smiles at Wolf01
14:41<frosch123:#openttd>[20:39] <planetmaker> and the "waiting for free path thing"? How's that related? <- I mean the "catch_me_if_you_can"
14:41<frosch123:#openttd>would also be solved if "go to nearest depot"-orders would be allowed to reach other depots than the one they decided earlier
14:42<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: "nearest depot" should be considered, if any depot is entered. IMHO
14:42<@Belugas:#openttd>by the way... newobjets... unmovalbles are so boring to handle...
14:42<planetmaker:#openttd>*considered fulfilled
14:42<planetmaker:#openttd>Belugas: then invent obstacles :D
14:43<@Belugas:#openttd>hmm?
14:43<planetmaker:#openttd>if it's boring: make it more complicated, less intuitive --> more fun maybe?
14:43<planetmaker:#openttd>;)
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14:43<@Belugas:#openttd>sorry.. i meant... current unmovables
14:43<@Belugas:#openttd>lighthouses, transmitters statues and such
14:44<planetmaker:#openttd>he :)
14:44<planetmaker:#openttd>introduce an ent: an unmovable tree which randomly moves itself.
14:45<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: interesting savegame :)
14:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>ents are not trees
14:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Belugas: why not simply convert the old unmovables to newobjects?
14:48*frosch123:#openttd << food
14:48<planetmaker:#openttd>enjoy, frosch123 :)
14:48<frosch123:#openttd>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/fs2876_2873case2.diff <- or if you want
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14:49<@Belugas:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause : that's what i'm doing :)
14:49<@Belugas:#openttd>and that is why i say they are boring
14:49<planetmaker:#openttd>:)
14:49<planetmaker:#openttd>I'll check it, frosch123 :)
14:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so you have a solution but it is tedious work that does not lead anywhere?
14:55<@Belugas:#openttd>solution is there, conversion is already in good progress, but it's like... head scratching
14:55<@Belugas:#openttd>with industries, it was quite evident what make one different from another
14:55<@Belugas:#openttd>but not as much as for unmovables
14:55<@Belugas:#openttd>by far...
14:59<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you mean like, each one has vastly different side effects?
15:00<@Belugas:#openttd>no, just the opposite
15:01<@Belugas:#openttd>there are so few differences hat it's hard to work it out
15:01<@Belugas:#openttd>like...
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>lighthouses are near coasts
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>cool...
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>but that's it
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>transmitters? ABSOLUTELY nothing special
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>welll. apart from the tha fact both cvannot be deleted, of course...
15:02<@Belugas:#openttd>same for statues
15:03<@Belugas:#openttd>statues can be placed only in town
15:03<@Belugas:#openttd>and not manually
15:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the difference for lighthouses and transmitters are in the placement routine
15:03<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
15:03<@Belugas:#openttd>and that's boring
15:04<@Belugas:#openttd>i would like to be 2 months ahead and be able to do some more interesting stuff on objects
15:06<planetmaker:#openttd>http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/catch_me_if_you_can2.sav <-- frosch123 , what about these orders then (with your patch applied)?
15:06<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: what would be a sensible solution? It seems that the 3rd is skipped always...
15:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: I don't have a mic, nor a bigjack to smalljack convertor :( :( :(
15:14<frosch123:#openttd>planetmaker: not if the train waits longer than the service interval at the station
15:15<frosch123:#openttd>I do not see what is wrong with that
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15:25<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: well, I never see the train go for service (e.g. order 3).
15:25<frosch123:#openttd>because you service it every few days :p
15:25<planetmaker:#openttd>Shouldn't that be done despite? And along with that maybe the 1st be skipped?
15:25<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: but if I explicitly order it serviced?!
15:25<frosch123:#openttd>set the service interval to 30 days and stop the trains for 30 days at the station
15:26<planetmaker:#openttd>ok, probably there's my understanding wrong, but explicit service orders are not carried out, if the service interval isn't reached?
15:27<frosch123:#openttd>there is a combobox with "always go", "service if needed" and "stop in depot"
15:28<planetmaker:#openttd>oh... that was off my radar. Thanks :)
15:28<frosch123:#openttd>you should play with breakdowns more often :p
15:29<planetmaker:#openttd>he... I found a translation... not error, but insufficiency :)
15:29<planetmaker:#openttd>it shouldn't say "Wartung", but "evtl. Wartung" or alike
15:30<frosch123:#openttd>to bad you cannot blame the translator :p
15:30<planetmaker:#openttd>hehe :)
15:30<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: alberth * r16195 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Even empty widgets should live within window boundaries.
15:31<planetmaker:#openttd>he... I need a bigger button ;)
15:31<frosch123:#openttd>you can resize the window
15:31<frosch123:#openttd>(in trunk)
15:32<planetmaker:#openttd>yes. But default size matters :)
15:32<frosch123:#openttd>"default size matters" sounds unusual
15:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>I thought we left that porn discussion behind us :p
15:34<frosch123:#openttd>interesting, which state TrueBrain considers "default"
15:34<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: alberth * r16196 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for non-train and other-companies order windows.
15:35<planetmaker:#openttd>haha :)
15:35<planetmaker:#openttd>ggf. Wartung should fit :)
15:36<frosch123:#openttd>"ggf." sounds wrong
15:36<frosch123:#openttd>"immer", "falls nötig", "anhalten"
15:37<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"falls Wartung nötig"?
15:38<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: alberth * r16197 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Structure buttons of train order window based on related functions rather than position.
15:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why are the order windows not unified?
15:40<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: I meant the Button itself. :)
15:40<Alberth:#openttd>they do share a window struct + code. They just differ in how widgets are layed out.
15:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm, that sounds sensible
15:41<frosch123:#openttd>planetmaker: the button itself refers to the short-cut action
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15:49<planetmaker:#openttd>frosch123: right. I guess it's better to change the way the order in the order list is called.
15:49<planetmaker:#openttd>I think changing it to "Falls nötig, fahre ohne Halt zur Wartung in" makes clear what to expect
15:50<planetmaker:#openttd>respectively "Falls nötig, Wartung in"
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16:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: do you know why AITileList_IndustryAccepting now returns tiles which does not accept cargo for the industry?
16:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>as far as I am aware, but okay, my knowledge on this subject is very old, it should return only tiles that ACCEPT the cargo
16:03<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and not only have 6/8th, or what ever)
16:05<frosch123:#openttd> if (i->accepts_cargo[j] != CT_INVALID && accepts[i->accepts_cargo[j]] != 0) cargo_accepts = true; <- that does not say >= 8
16:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>exactly my point
16:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>which makes that function rather silly
16:05<TrueBrain:#openttd>as it returns tiles which do NOT accept the cargo
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>if my memory is correct, the 'indsp' used before, did start accepting at value 1
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>whereas the cargo in the industry struct, starts at value 8
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and is newgrf compatible)
16:06<frosch123:#openttd>well, but a industry with 8 tiles of 1/8 is fine, so shall there be no tiles?
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>but I might be wrong there ;)
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: the function will return tiles :)
16:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>as there will be a tile which covers all 8 tiles .. and give a value of 8
16:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>as that is what ::GetAcceptanceAroundTiles should do ;)
16:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>from that function: for (uint i = 0; i < lengthof(ac); ++i) accepts[i] += ac[i];
16:07<TrueBrain:#openttd>(mind the += there ;))
16:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>as in my opinion those 'IsCargoAccepted' functions of AIIndustry and friends are now useless :) It returns un-true information
16:08<frosch123:#openttd>[22:06] <TrueBrain> if my memory is correct, the 'indsp' used before, did start accepting at value 1 <- that does not change anything, that only refers to the cargo type, not the acceptance
16:08<TrueBrain:#openttd>" * Creates a list of tiles that will accept cargo for the given industry." <- makes that also untrue :)
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16:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: you are right; so it is broken for a long time I guess ;)
16:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>I remember I fiddled with this subject a lot while building the NoAI framework .. it was always hard to get a clear line through those things ...
16:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>'acceptance' is such a nasty concept within OpenTTD
16:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>'make regression' is completely broken :p
16:12<frosch123:#openttd>so, does changing " != 0" to ">= 8" fix it?
16:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>asserts SQ :)
16:12<dihedral:#openttd># i have a hat like a ping pong ball
16:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: in my opinion it would; but I have to add that it is just my observation of the code and my knowledge of the past :)
16:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>so you might want to check it with who ever .. ;)
16:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you really must be bored :p
16:13<@petern:#openttd>huh?
16:13<@petern:#openttd>acceptance is either on or off
16:13<@petern:#openttd>it's production that is 1/8ths
16:13<TrueBrain:#openttd>huh? Then there is something serious wrong
16:13<frosch123:#openttd>I guess petern's memory
16:14<@petern:#openttd>probably :p
16:14<dihedral:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, ^^
16:14<@petern:#openttd>or talking about something else
16:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>I really wouldn't know if it was production or acceptance which works in 1/8th tile ...
16:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>tile = cargo
16:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>ghehe
16:16<frosch123:#openttd>btw. regression worked last weekend
16:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>no, petern's memory is indeed wrong ;) :)
16:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>btw, frosch123, talking about http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=43420
16:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>hmm .. now I come to think of it .. I do assume the user made no mistakes
16:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>but coal either has 8/8 or nothing
16:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>(doesn't really take the problem away I guess ;) But still :))
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16:20<TrueBrain:#openttd>either way frosch123, please consider the problem and look it over ;) It was always a nag for me ... :)
16:20<frosch123:#openttd>will do later :)
16:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why is there no mention of the cargo that is tested to be accepted, in the code snippet the guy posted?
16:24<frosch123:#openttd>the list collects all tiles which accept at least one cargo, not necessary all or a particular one
16:24<frosch123:#openttd>but that is a question for TrueBrain :p
16:24<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>it sounds like asking for trouble...
16:25<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what about stuff like the PBI food processing plant, which has two tiles which accept 4/8 livestock, and two tiles which accept 4/8 grain
16:25<@Belugas:#openttd>TroubleBrain ?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you could end up with a station accepting the wrong cargo, or no cargo at all, because you got 4/8 of each
16:29<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: no, it is not that wrong :p
16:29<frosch123:#openttd>it does not sum acceptance of different cargo types
16:29<@petern:#openttd>gah
16:30<@petern:#openttd>the problem with IS
16:30<@petern:#openttd>is that nobody else uses PBS properly :p
16:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>haha ;)
16:30<frosch123:#openttd>"no idots, except me"
16:31<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tilelist.cpp#L100 <- take a look yourself :p
16:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: tnx :)
16:33<frosch123:#openttd>TrueBrain: I have no idea how AIs or the API works, I always have to ask yexo about the intentions of certain functions :)
16:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>if (!_settings_game.station.modified_catchment) radius = CA_UNMODIFIED; <- why is that line there?
16:33<@petern:#openttd>if not using modified catchment then unmodified catchment is used
16:33<frosch123:#openttd>to reduce complexity for ais?
16:34<frosch123:#openttd>well, no idea
16:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but shouldn't the "constants" that the AI accesses be changed instead?
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16:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: changing constants? Sounds like a terrible idea ;)
16:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>this way the AI becomes much more clear and simple
16:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: hehe, fair enough ;)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but what if the AI wants to know a completely different radius?
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16:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: the function does not allow that
16:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>(as it is clearly abusing the function; you can to know which tiles accept a cargo of an industry; using 'custom' radius is complete useless in that matter)
16:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>can = want
16:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>the NoAI API tries to restrict usage of functions to their intentions
16:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>to avoid 'abuse' like you suggest, which might not be supported at later stages ;)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>then why not pass a station type instead of a radius?
16:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>would be possible too ... if airports weren't so darn annoying
16:42<frosch123:#openttd>:p
16:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>(you do realise the NoAI API has a whole history, don't you? Each function is considered, reconsidered, changed, extended, changed again, reconsidered again, changed again and finalized :p)
16:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>in this case in fact, I did start out with station-type .. but airports fucked that up :p
16:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>of course ;)
16:43<frosch123:#openttd>nope, "finalized" is on the roadmap for ottd 1.0
16:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: fair enough :)
16:43<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i will stop this discussion then ;)
16:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: nevertheless, asking such questions never hurt ;)
16:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>I just meant to say that most of those functions, and more: their parameters, have a history of development :)
16:44<NightKhaos:#openttd>I wish we could construct custom airports, defining your runway(s) and terminals, making them as small (or big) as we require based upon the geography (or surrounding cityscape) of the area.
16:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>NightKhaos: would be nice yes; so please, create it for us :)
16:45<NightKhaos:#openttd>Argh... I might be able (MIGHT) to do GRFs... but coding is not my forté.
16:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>too bad :) I tought we finally found the person to make it ... darn :) :)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>well, check the development forum, there are several attempts documented there, and even an independent airport designer (afaik)
16:46<frosch123:#openttd>mhh, somewhen I should dig out my 'first' patch for ottd
16:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm, my first one that was commited to svn was a PBS fix for MiniIN
16:48<frosch123:#openttd>I am not taking about commited, but about first contact with code
16:49<frosch123:#openttd>:p
16:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yeah, i know
16:49<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but it's more difficult to get hold of those
16:49<NightKhaos:#openttd>I would really want to code in better aircraft management AIs and put in things like wind... would make it more interesting.
16:50<@Belugas:#openttd>i do believe custom-manually created airports would be such a big freaking mess...
16:50<NightKhaos:#openttd>Then we could make it so if you (or an AI) could rent out a terminal to competiting company.
16:50<NightKhaos:#openttd>Scale of OTTD is getting to be a problem.
16:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: not when done correctly :) But yeah .. you have to be careful there ;)
16:50<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
16:51<frosch123:#openttd>a mess wrt. the code, or wrt. gameplay?
16:51<NightKhaos:#openttd>I'm thinking I would want to redo the entire scale... roads might take up 3 squares wide... rail lines 1.... etc?
16:51<@Belugas:#openttd>and not start coding like a bull viewing a lot of red flags
16:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i believe custom modular airports would generally end up larger than custom grf-designed airports
16:51<@Belugas:#openttd>gameplay, it could very well be a mess
16:51<frosch123:#openttd>NightKhaos: good luck :) a fundamental assumption in ottd code is that a vehicle is on exactly one tile
16:51<@Belugas:#openttd>code wise... welll... it really depends how it's done
16:52<@Belugas:#openttd>NightKhaos, the last thing that will be done is to change the scale
16:52<@Belugas:#openttd>just before putting all realism possible in the game
16:53<@Belugas:#openttd>reality freak...
16:53<NightKhaos:#openttd>rail is pretty much on track... apart from that rail should be able to sold to the state.
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16:54<NightKhaos:#openttd>road is getting better... but we miss things like highways, motorways, traffic...
16:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but "state" must still be a player
16:54<@Belugas:#openttd>"WE" ???? Muwhahahaha!!!
16:54<NightKhaos:#openttd>That wouldn't be hard to implement.
16:54<@Belugas:#openttd>Go ahaed, my dear! Have Fun Fun Fun!!!
16:54<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>for various definitions of "hard"
16:55<NightKhaos:#openttd>We set the first player to be the "state"... and make it so that "state" owned property is accessible to everyone... non "state" owned protery can be rented...
16:55<NightKhaos:#openttd>Then you make the state non-playable.
16:55<NightKhaos:#openttd>Progress.
16:56<oskari89:#openttd>Speaking of road.. How hard it would be to code several "types" of rail? Like "light" rail which would allow only 80 kph speed, "medium" speed rail which would allow about 160 km/h and high speed rail, 320 kph?
16:56<@Belugas:#openttd>right now?
16:56<@Belugas:#openttd>impossible
16:57<oskari89:#openttd>Impossible?
16:57<oskari89:#openttd>Why?
16:57<NightKhaos:#openttd>you would need to expand the "rail type" sets... not to mention add the speed limit paramter to rail in general, which currently only exsists for bridges.
16:57<NightKhaos:#openttd>Correct?
16:57<@Belugas:#openttd>there is not a single free bit on the map array for that
16:58<@Belugas:#openttd>not correct at all
16:58<frosch123:#openttd>oskari89: http://wiki.openttd.org/Peter1138/Railtypes
16:59<oskari89:#openttd>Hmm.
16:59<frosch123:#openttd>the map array support 16 types of railroads
16:59<@Belugas:#openttd>ho... rails... sorry.. i read Roads
16:59<@Belugas:#openttd>only
16:59<@Belugas:#openttd>as trucks-bus
17:00<frosch123:#openttd>for roads there are enough bits to also add 16 types :)
17:00<@Belugas:#openttd>he??
17:00<@Belugas:#openttd>when did you freed that up???
17:00<frosch123:#openttd>rb did
17:00<@Belugas:#openttd>ho
17:01<frosch123:#openttd>he trashed the misterious "third" roadtype
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17:01<@Belugas:#openttd>welll... good
17:01<frosch123:#openttd>to support 16 primary and 16 second
17:01<oskari89:#openttd>And no possible to code "speed limit" sign for railroads? Allowing only speed of n km/h until next sign?
17:02<frosch123:#openttd>oskari89: you can add basically unlimited functionallity to waypoints
17:02<oskari89:#openttd>Hmmmmm...
17:02<frosch123:#openttd>the important part of that is "you"
17:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have the strong belief that people will come up with situations where you need 3 road types
17:03<fjb:#openttd>Hm, a new order "go via ... with maximum speed of..."...
17:03<oskari89:#openttd>Of course :
17:03<oskari89:#openttd>..
17:04<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: three independent road types on the same tile? please tell how the graphics should look like
17:04<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>for example, a crossing between trolley busses and tramways
17:04<@petern:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause, you can just create a special road type for it
17:05<frosch123:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: wasn't the patch to draw rail catenary on adjacent junctions by you?
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17:05<@petern:#openttd>hmm
17:05<@petern:#openttd>i suppose i should finish off railtypes :p
17:05<fjb:#openttd>Yes. :-)
17:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>yes, kill it ;)
17:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: don't give him ideas :p
17:06<@petern:#openttd>kill it by making it redundant
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17:08<oskari89:#openttd>I have experimented with Long reserve pbs signals..
17:09-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet578.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:09<oskari89:#openttd>And i found out that it can be used for single track bidirectional line-blocking, quite realistic feature.
17:09<oskari89:#openttd>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=109279
17:10<oskari89:#openttd>Now single rail networks could have much more capacity than before.
17:10<TrueBrain:#openttd>oskari89: only if the speeds of the vehicles on the track are the same
17:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and/or you have breakdowns off)
17:11<oskari89:#openttd>Not suitable for very large traffic.
17:11<oskari89:#openttd>Yes.
17:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>not suitable for 4+ trains :)
17:11<TrueBrain:#openttd>else you have a pretty nice chance on a dead-lock :)
17:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>oskari89: what happens if the train on the right leaves the block, and another train reserves the track from the right, before the train on the left extends its reservation?
17:12<oskari89:#openttd>Well..
17:12<TrueBrain:#openttd>I still think trains should get a number when they are at a signal, and are handled one by one .. like a FIFO :) That should help in my situations :)
17:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think this blocks way too easily, and has hardly any advantage over a line signalled with regular path signals
17:13<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>you can place one path signal on a single track
17:13<oskari89:#openttd>You can have semi-realistic configuration with normal pbs..
17:13<@Belugas:#openttd>"dear, i'll be late"
17:14*TrueBrain:#openttd gives Belugas a hug
17:14<TrueBrain:#openttd>almost weekend :)
17:14<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah...
17:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>more important than semi-realistic is non-blocking
17:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>programmable signals are one of the only 'true' solutions to many problems
17:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>but also increases the complexity of the game with a factor X :p
17:15<TrueBrain:#openttd>(and the speed :p)
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17:16<oskari89:#openttd>How difficult it would be to code programmable signals and use them?
17:16<TrueBrain:#openttd>last week orso I drafted an idea based on OSPF, to auto-balance traffic through blocks you define (which makes signals even more useless)
17:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there need to be direction-aware weak reservations
17:17<@Belugas:#openttd>oskari89, i was about to say very hard due to my experience with signals-on-bridges but since trunk moves very fast, i'd say that i do not have a clue right now
17:17<@Belugas:#openttd>althoguh i do believe ti will still be very hard
17:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>you would need to rewrite most parts that handle signals ... and a GUI :p
17:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>the latter will be the killer ;)
17:17<@Belugas:#openttd>kidding??
17:17<@Belugas:#openttd>gui would be easy as hell
17:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>to do that in a nice way?
17:17<TrueBrain:#openttd>brr .. don't even want to consider that ;)
17:18<@Belugas:#openttd>handling the signals would be much more hellish
17:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>the approach I can imagine, is relative simple
17:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>it just is a lot slower :p
17:18<@Belugas:#openttd>sqirel!
17:18<TrueBrain:#openttd>(as every signal becomes a pool-item)
17:18<oskari89:#openttd>Hmmmm....
17:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>what might reduce complexity and slowness, is to make each signal aware of which signals are in his direct neighbour
17:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>removes the pathfinding part from normal calculations
17:19<TrueBrain:#openttd>(but: more memory :))
17:19<@Belugas:#openttd>the code handling the updates that SmatZ wrote would be the hardest to adapt
17:20<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: what do you mean?
17:20<oskari89:#openttd>Also, i think that what, if there would be 2 types of signal, main signal and a 2-way block signal..
17:20<@Belugas:#openttd>that is waht stopped me to go any further on signal-on-bridges
17:20<@Belugas:#openttd>let me find the file...
17:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>but okay, I also don't see a real problem in adding custom airports (non-NewGRF)
17:22<@Belugas:#openttd>if i am not mistable :signal.cpp
17:22<TrueBrain:#openttd>just a helish work to make the state machine work (and self-check)
17:23<oskari89:#openttd>Main signals would only have permissive aspect when there is other side blocked. (and yet next station main signals on opposite direction showing red)
17:23<@Belugas:#openttd>you'll need a hell more gui magic for custom airports than progammable signals
17:23<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>there should be a pbs-style reservation system for roads, in order to make narrow roads possible
17:24<@Belugas:#openttd>there should be 10 more devs as good as Rubidium
17:24-!-Fenris [~fenris@p5B0D33CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
17:24<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: I guess 'time' is more an issue here ;)
17:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: if I read this right, signal.cpp does the segmenting I mentioned
17:25<@Belugas:#openttd>ok... 10 more devs, working 40h/w
17:25<oskari89:#openttd>:D
17:25<oskari89:#openttd>And how many weeks? ;)
17:26<@Belugas:#openttd>wiil never end, since users keep on having ideas
17:26<oskari89:#openttd>:DDD
17:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>when it pays ;)
17:26<@Belugas:#openttd>bastards
17:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>oskari89: with time, so many things are possible ...
17:27<planetmaker:#openttd>I'm playing around with the translation and I'm puzzled: patches/src/lang/german.txt:2658: FATAL: Bad # of arguments for gender command
17:27<@Belugas:#openttd>TrueBrain, yes, it's a segmentation alright
17:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>but to give a bit of time indication: NoAI took more than 1 year to create. In total 4 people worked on it, with a general of, say, 10 hours a week ...
17:28<planetmaker:#openttd>STR_GO_TO_DEPOT :{G 2 {0:STRING.m} {0:STRING.w} {0:STRING.n}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}
17:28<@Belugas:#openttd>problem is that it did not want to accept the bridge segemtns i threw to it
17:28<planetmaker:#openttd>what I want is: choose the case of the 1st string depending upon the gender of the 3rd.
17:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: command in command .. is that possible?
17:28<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: I'm asking :)
17:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: you are mixing genders and cases ... nice ;)
17:28<Wolf01:#openttd>'night
17:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: bridges are a bitch ... ;)
17:28-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host241-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:29<planetmaker:#openttd>yes. It's a bit of a mis-use, but... I see no other choice.
17:29<planetmaker:#openttd>Problem is the quoted string.
17:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: we have 4 genders
17:30<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't matter. Also with "" as 4th I get the same
17:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: somehow I just hope it is invalid
17:30<TrueBrain:#openttd>would be a bitch to add to WT3 :p
17:30<planetmaker:#openttd>the first parameter can be either "Fahre zu", or "zur Wartung in". But I'd like to have "...zum/zur/zum/zu den" and "/im/in der/im/in den"
17:31<planetmaker:#openttd>depending upon the gender of the 3rd string.
17:31<planetmaker:#openttd>e.g. a different 1st string as a function of the 3rd.
17:31<planetmaker:#openttd>as a function of the gender of the 3rd
17:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: does it work if you simply compile it with strgen?
17:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>on that note, you could also write it as: {0:STRING.{G 2 m w n p}}
17:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>;)
17:33<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: signals always will be a puzzle ... so many options :)
17:33<oskari89:#openttd>Would be possible to have user-programmed signals, that would have programmed linking on any other signals? Like having .. "Signal 1" permissive aspect IF signals ... 3, 4, 5 are red, and no other direction reservation between preconfigured signals?`
17:34<oskari89:#openttd>In any way? :)
17:34<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: what do you mean? Not like make in the usual source dir?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>nevermind.
17:34<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: he meant outside WT2, I guess
17:34<planetmaker:#openttd>he
17:34<planetmaker:#openttd>I never compiled strgen. But I'm happy to use that, if it helps
17:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: I wouldn't know how WT2 validates its strings
17:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>you btw compile strgen every time you do a custom compile :p
17:35<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: it's not wt2 which gives me the error. it's make here locally
17:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>so then you use strgen ....... :p
17:35<@Belugas:#openttd>oskari89... honestly... you are depressing me a whole lot
17:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>make uses strgen
17:35<planetmaker:#openttd>yes :)
17:35<@Belugas:#openttd>incredible
17:35<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: why?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>hm... something is wrong... civ4 stopped working...
17:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: no, a feature :)
17:36<oskari89:#openttd>Belugas: Never mind, just asked how difficult it would be :P
17:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>oskari89: on a scale from 1 to 10, I would say 15
17:36<@Belugas:#openttd>open the door... just a little bit... then imagination runs absolutely wild with tons and tons of feature requests that might not even be remotely used...
17:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i can start it, but when it is finished generating a game, it hangs
17:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: ghehe :) True :)
17:37<@Belugas:#openttd>that's why i'm depressed...
17:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: not that you are still at work? :)
17:37<@Belugas:#openttd>heer... yeah... that does not help...
17:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>you want a beer?
17:37-!-Nuke2 [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/]
17:37<@Belugas:#openttd>virtual? naaa...
17:38<oskari89:#openttd>:DDD
17:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>I can't send you a real one, sorry :)
17:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>wish I could my friend .. wish I could
17:38<TrueBrain:#openttd>you would get one every week ;)
17:38<@Belugas:#openttd>i've got a real one waiting for me at home, a new one i was planning on tasting tonight
17:38<@Belugas:#openttd>guess it's over the bridge for today :(
17:39<oskari89:#openttd>But it's a nice thing that PBS was taken to trunk, big thanks from me to all who worked at it :)
17:39<@Belugas:#openttd>TrueBrain, and we'll meet at the same time, cause we'd be not far from each other!
17:39<@Belugas:#openttd>and we'll jam at petern's house on weekends!
17:39<TrueBrain:#openttd>:) The ideal world ..... ;)
17:40<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: I cannot write ":{0:STRING.{G 2 m w n m}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}": src/lang/german.txt:2670: FATAL: Invalid case-name '{G 2 m w n m}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}'
17:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: not a real suprise ;)
17:40<planetmaker:#openttd>nope
17:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: I was more like joking .. that you could write your idea two ways :)
17:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>I hate jumps that depends on a register setting :(
17:44-!-phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: phidah]
17:44<@Belugas:#openttd>how about that... a feature developped rush, over the last 3 hours, never compiled, run perfectly on very first attempt...
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17:44<@Belugas:#openttd>hurray for coffee!
17:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>Belugas: that is impressive
17:45<@Belugas:#openttd>nope. it's that voice she had on the phone...
17:45<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>having phone sex while at work?
17:46<@Belugas:#openttd>[17:16] <@Belugas> "dear, i'll be late" <---- not exactly
17:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>I guess it is one of the less fun things to call home for
17:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>so then, why are you distracting yourself with IRC? ;)
17:51<@Belugas:#openttd>wait for documentation approbation, wait for compiling, wait for app to launch...
17:51<@Belugas:#openttd>need to resource overloaded brain
17:54<oskari89:#openttd>:D
17:58<frosch123:#openttd>if you would deal with less gui stuff, you could add: wait for program to print result
18:01-!-davis` [~iloveme@p5B28F5B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:01*davis`:#openttd hi
18:02<TrueBrain:#openttd>hello davis`
18:02<davis`:#openttd>:]
18:02<frosch123:#openttd>do you get jealousy when someone else loves you?
18:02<frosch123:#openttd>-y
18:04<TrueBrain:#openttd>who you ask?
18:04<el_en:#openttd>bonsoir, madamoiselles et monsieures.
18:06<frosch123:#openttd>~iloveme@p5B28F5B7.dip.t-dialin.net
18:06<TrueBrain:#openttd>ah :p
18:06<+glx:#openttd>ecke: mesdemoiselles et messieurs
18:06<+glx:#openttd>oups
18:06<+glx:#openttd>el_en: ^^
18:10<el_en:#openttd>no comprendo
18:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>how does one say "die spinnen, die Franzosen" in french?
18:10<+glx:#openttd>what is "spinnen" ?
18:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>(it's a common phrase of Obelix to say "die spinnen, die <insert tribe>"
18:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>something like "they are silly"
18:11<FauxFaux:#openttd>s/die/le/g
18:11<+glx:#openttd>ils sont dous ces romains
18:11<+glx:#openttd>*fous
18:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>once upon a time i should watch asterix in french...
18:13<@Belugas:#openttd>pfff...
18:13<@Belugas:#openttd>tired
18:13<frosch123:#openttd>nope, you should watch it in welsh or old celtic
18:14<+glx:#openttd>I wonder how are called roman "things" around the village
18:14<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>my knowledge of history told me that "celts" was a rather generic term and the tribes did not actually share a common language
18:14<@Belugas:#openttd>wow! glx is beating me to the typos game!
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>glx: "Lager"?
18:17<frosch123:#openttd>likely "camp" in english
18:18-!-fjb [~frank@p5485F3E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20<@Belugas:#openttd>yeah!
18:20<@Belugas:#openttd>youhou!!
18:20<@Belugas:#openttd>Alleluia!
18:20<@Belugas:#openttd>je criss mon camp!!
18:20<@Belugas:#openttd>bye bye
18:20<frosch123:#openttd>night belugas :)
18:20<+glx:#openttd>yes, but I mean their names not the word :)
18:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>oh...
18:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i never remember those...
18:21<frosch123:#openttd>they end with "orum"
18:21-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEd279.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
18:21<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i do remember that the names were mentioned occasionally
18:21<+glx:#openttd>in french they are "aquarium" "babaorum" "laudanum" and "petibonum"
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18:22<frosch123:#openttd>Kleinbonum, Babaorum, Aquarium und Laudanum
18:22<frosch123:#openttd>hmm, I thought there were five...
18:22<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, they were four
18:23-!-cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:24<frosch123:#openttd>Compendium, Aquarium, Laudanum and Totorum
18:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>you guys are WEIRD
18:25<frosch123:#openttd>yeah, citing wiki all night :p
18:25<TrueBrain:#openttd>at least my 16bit to C stuff comes along just fine :p
18:26<frosch123:#openttd>which architecture? or boring 8086?
18:26<TrueBrain:#openttd>8086 yes ... I also want to have games to port to C, if you don't mind ;)
18:27<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>amiga has lots of games, probably ;)
18:27<TrueBrain:#openttd>I never played them :p
18:28<TrueBrain:#openttd>but might be a nice second to support :p
18:28<oskari89:#openttd>Amiga..
18:28<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have never had an amiga either
18:28<oskari89:#openttd>I have amiga emulator on PC :)
18:28<oskari89:#openttd>And couple of games..
18:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i only remember that everyone always said the games for amiga were better and everything
18:29<+glx:#openttd>graphically they were nice
18:30<+glx:#openttd>(I never had an amiga though)
18:30<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but that reputation was probably the downfall of amiga, no "serious" applications for it
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18:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>I guess Gameboy could be fun too :)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i have no idea what kind of processor a gameboy has...
18:31<el_en:#openttd>Z80
18:32<el_en:#openttd>the original gameboy anyway.
18:32<el_en:#openttd>the same as TI-85/86
18:32<TrueBrain:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: the CPU is not important; the instruction-set it uses is ;)
18:33-!-KingJ is now known as kingj
18:33<el_en:#openttd>kingj: warning #1
18:33<Xaroth:#openttd>o_O
18:35<el_en:#openttd>let's assume i'm sleeping from now on.
18:36<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>let's also assume that you actually have power to support your warnings :p
18:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>although I don't agree if users start to give other users warnings .. I support him on thisone :)
18:39-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1E8F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:40<+glx:#openttd>asm on ti-85 was fun
18:40<+glx:#openttd>way easier to use on ti-86
18:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>AAA, AAD, AAS .. I hate them already
18:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>(8086 btw)
18:51<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what do they do?
18:51<TrueBrain:#openttd>BCD things
18:52<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>great ;)
18:52<TrueBrain:#openttd>alley the cat decompiled .. well .. the first stage :p
18:53<frosch123:#openttd>what are you heading for, what dosbox cannot do?
18:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>C code :)
18:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>so making it possible to port
18:53<TrueBrain:#openttd>that dosbox really can't ;)
18:54<frosch123:#openttd>and you want to play alleycat on your cellphone?
18:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>why cellphone?
18:54<frosch123:#openttd>I wonder about devices that do not run dosbox :)
18:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>hehe; it is not that, it is about being able to extend things
18:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>or understand, for that matter
18:55<TrueBrain:#openttd>aleycat is just an example .. mostly because it is a small and simple application :)
18:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the problem is, reverse engineering for portability is legal
18:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but using results of such reverse engineering for anything else is not
18:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>your point being? :)
18:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>nothing ;)
18:57<frosch123:#openttd>alleycat is by ibm, isn't it?
18:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is just fun to see if it can be done, in in what extend :)
18:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>frosch123: I really wouldn't know
18:57<frosch123:#openttd>doesn't it print something like that on the title screen?
18:57<TrueBrain:#openttd>will start it in a sec :)
18:58<frosch123:#openttd>well, maybe it is just for ibm pc :s
18:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>SynSoft
18:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>IBM Coop
18:58<TrueBrain:#openttd>1984 :)
18:59<frosch123:#openttd>love them mousies :)
19:00<frosch123:#openttd>I am always surprised how old joysticks are
19:00<TrueBrain:#openttd>anyway, it is suprising to me how 'easy' it is to make something out of such programs :)
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19:17<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r16198 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix/Change (r16187): 'Go to nearest depot'-orders are fulfilled when reaching any depot, even though the train decided for a different depot on the last junction/order-skip.
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19:30<planetmaker:#openttd>TrueBrain: {STRING}{G 2 "m" "r" "m" " den"} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN} <--- doesn't parse
19:31<planetmaker:#openttd>but it parses, if I change it to {STRING}{G 2 "m" "r" "m" "den"} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}
19:31<planetmaker:#openttd>mind the difference of the space before "den"
19:31<TrueBrain:#openttd>http://bugs.openttd.org
19:31<planetmaker:#openttd>same, though, for wt2
19:31<planetmaker:#openttd>nevertheless, yes :)
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>planetmaker: i remember a similar problem back when the plural gender was introduced
19:35<planetmaker:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: exactly for that.
19:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i think strgen accepted a space, where wt2 did not
19:35<planetmaker:#openttd>yes.
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: strgen does parse it?
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>then you are VERY unclear in your reports
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19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>WT2 doesn't understand "" (ask glx :p He is annoyed anough by it)
19:36<TrueBrain:#openttd>and for WT3 that is WIP
19:37<TrueBrain:#openttd>if strgen doesn't parse it, go to http://bugs.openttd.org
19:39<+glx:#openttd>yes it doesn't like "à la"
19:40<+glx:#openttd>(note the space) ;)
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19:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>it doesn't like "" :p Well .. WT2 and WT3 simply don't see it as anything special ;)
19:40<+glx:#openttd>"" is not a problem I think
19:40<+glx:#openttd>it's used in translations
19:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>...
19:40<+glx:#openttd>the problem is clearly the space in this case
19:40<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: WT2 and WT3 don't see " as any special char
19:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>so now think what a space means if " is just an other char
19:41<+glx:#openttd>I understand that :)
19:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>so then don't tell "" is not a problem
19:41<TrueBrain:#openttd>it is exactly the problem: the lack of understanding what that indicates :)
19:42<planetmaker:#openttd>but "" is no problem
19:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>@kick planetmaker READ for crying out loud .. grr ...
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19:42<+glx:#openttd>planetmaker: it is skiped so it's a problem
19:42*glx:#openttd should try to use nbsp for this string :)
19:42<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: not even 'skipped' ;) Just read as any other char :)
19:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>glx: {NBSP} most likely fails .. command in command ;)
19:43<+glx:#openttd>I mean a real nbsp
19:43<+glx:#openttd>(if that exists)
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19:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>a real nbsp ... how does that look like? :p
19:43<TrueBrain:#openttd>the main problem with "" is, that it means you need to write your own split routine to make it " aware .. which is a bitch :(
19:44<+glx:#openttd>" is a problem for validation only as strgen handles it correctly later
19:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>yup
19:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>but there is no way to get a real space in the DB
19:44<TrueBrain:#openttd>without passing the validation
19:45<+glx:#openttd>maybe you can check the first char and if it's a " unsplit until last char is "
19:45<TrueBrain:#openttd>as I said: it is a bitch :)
19:45<+glx:#openttd>true
19:45<+glx:#openttd>but the only "easy" way I think
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think scanning char by char is easier
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>when it reads a ", it just goes on blindly till the next ", if any
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>(else it errors-out)
19:46<+glx:#openttd>so custom split
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>yeah, no way to avoid that anyway :)
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>you don't want that mess in your subfunctions
19:46<TrueBrain:#openttd>(used 3 or 4 times)
19:47<+glx:#openttd>can be seen for genders and plural IIRC
19:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>I meant code-wise in WT3 :)
19:47<TrueBrain:#openttd>there are 2 levels of validation
19:49<TrueBrain:#openttd>planetmaker: btw, did you find a way around your problem?
19:50<planetmaker:#openttd>no
19:50<TrueBrain:#openttd>I think strgen can be extended without too much effort ..
19:50<planetmaker:#openttd>different wording. But it's less elegant
19:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>in fact, I think it is a one-liner ...
19:54<TrueBrain:#openttd>will check with higher powers ;)
19:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>199 of the 256 functions done ... yeah ...
19:56<TrueBrain:#openttd>nightynight all!
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20:09<De_Ghost:#openttd>was there any signal / road work since 16050?
20:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>svn log -r16050:HEAD?
20:10<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r16199 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_order.cpp order_base.h order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp):
20:10<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Pass OrderNonStopFlags also to MakeGoToDepotOrder().
20:10<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix: 'Go non-stop to nearest depot'-orders did not work wrt. the 'non-stop' part.
20:10<CIA-3:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Fix: Adding 'Go to nearest depot'-orders did not respect the default setting for 'non-stop'.
20:11<De_Ghost:#openttd>i'll take it as a no
20:11<frosch123:#openttd>what do signals have with roads in common?
20:11<De_Ghost:#openttd>they are both part of pathing
20:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>where does my statement suggest a "no§?
20:11<De_Ghost:#openttd>no idea
20:11<De_Ghost:#openttd>lol
20:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>especially since i was away for one and a half month...
20:12<frosch123:#openttd>I have no idea what you are asking for :)
20:12<De_Ghost:#openttd>like
20:12<De_Ghost:#openttd>change in format of track
20:12<De_Ghost:#openttd>new signals
20:13<De_Ghost:#openttd>that kind of stuff
20:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>lots of "stuff" is still in development
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20:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>nvm
20:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>i already found a problem with the diff
20:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>case closed
20:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>:O
20:25<frosch123:#openttd>night
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20:29<De_Ghost:#openttd>would'nt it be easier to build copy and paste useing the ai api?
20:29<De_Ghost:#openttd>i mean the api don't morp as quick as the trunk
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21:44<@Belugas:#openttd>that's a new usage for the ai api... copy and paste...
21:44<@Belugas:#openttd>wow
21:44<@Belugas:#openttd>i mean... that's imaginative, to say the least
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22:35<kkb110:#openttd>hi I have a question in economy.cpp
22:36<kkb110:#openttd>in "Money GetTransportedGoodsIncome(uint num_pieces, uint dist, byte transit_days, CargoID cargo_type)" this function
22:36<kkb110:#openttd>It seems there is CBM_CARGO_PROFITC_CALC callback to calculate profit
22:37<kkb110:#openttd>but actually, It seems it is never been used.. it just return CALLBACK_FAILED every time. and the profit is calculated the code just below.
22:38<kkb110:#openttd>is there any moment that we really need that CBM_CARGO_PROFIT_CALC callback? Is that for just extention or plugin something?
22:42<+glx:#openttd>hmm looks like a newgrf callback
22:43*glx:#openttd didn't check the code
22:43<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
22:43<@Belugas:#openttd>it is, just checked
22:44<@Belugas:#openttd>kkb110, you need a grf loaded and that grf is required to perform the said callback, then you'll see that the CALLBACK_FAILED will take some sens
22:45<kkb110:#openttd>aha ok I see. grf thing. thank you.
22:45<@Belugas:#openttd>related to cargo. it's a spec of newcargo, actually
22:47<kkb110:#openttd>i've got it
22:47<DaleStan:#openttd>Anything that can return CALLBACK_FAILED is a GRF device. There are (if I count rightly) 60 such functions.
22:51<@Belugas:#openttd>that much?? that is in Open or in Patch?
22:52*Belugas:#openttd checks Open
22:56<@Belugas:#openttd>MSVC reports 87 lines matching
22:56<@Belugas:#openttd>but that does not count functions, just... lines
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23:10<De_Ghost:#openttd>why isn't useing ai api for copy and paste good idea?
23:11<@Belugas:#openttd>people dream of using AI api every where
23:11<@Belugas:#openttd>why do you say it would be a good idea?
23:11<@Belugas:#openttd>why not keep on using c++ for it?
23:12<De_Ghost:#openttd>less fix to keep it working?
23:12<@Belugas:#openttd>hu?
23:12<@Belugas:#openttd>how?
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23:13<De_Ghost:#openttd>cuz with diff if u change a line the whole thing breaks
23:13<@Belugas:#openttd>lol
23:13<De_Ghost:#openttd>and then you have to sort thru it all
23:13<@Belugas:#openttd>that is SUCH a nice reason!!!
23:13<De_Ghost:#openttd>sarcasm?
23:14<De_Ghost:#openttd>hard to tell on the internet
23:14<@Belugas:#openttd>De_Ghost, with that reasoning, all dev work should switch righ now to AI api
23:14<@Belugas:#openttd>it is indeed big sarcastic laugh
23:14<De_Ghost:#openttd>i mean
23:14<De_Ghost:#openttd>like
23:15<+glx:#openttd>Belugas: the API is c++ :)
23:16<@Belugas:#openttd>that i know, glx, ut i'm 100% convinced our ghostly friend would wnat to use squirel to build next version of copy paste
23:16<De_Ghost:#openttd>yorick"You know I updated the hg repo last week"
23:16<+glx:#openttd>that would not work
23:16<De_Ghost:#openttd>won't it?
23:16<De_Ghost:#openttd>:o
23:16<@Belugas:#openttd>and that is what make me laugh really hard
23:16<+glx:#openttd>squirrel can't save
23:17<@Belugas:#openttd>people tend to view squirrel as the easy way in
23:17<+glx:#openttd>anyway AI API is taylored for AIs
23:17<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
23:17<kkb110:#openttd>Is that a bug? that I can over-build a train-station on other my train-station? Nothing happens when I over-build , but it consumes money.
23:17<@Belugas:#openttd>not a bug
23:17<+glx:#openttd>not a bug
23:18<kkb110:#openttd>ok :)
23:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>depends how u view it
23:18<@Belugas:#openttd>you are just... updating it
23:18<De_Ghost:#openttd>it's a feature
23:18<+glx:#openttd>useful for newgrfs
23:18<kkb110:#openttd>aha
23:18<+glx:#openttd>when you want to change station's style
23:18<@Belugas:#openttd>if you have a sation build piece by piece, with no roof, and you want to add roofs, just click and drag the whole station and boom
23:18<@Belugas:#openttd>credited and updated
23:19<kkb110:#openttd>yeah, it seems I can change the style
23:19<+glx:#openttd>hmm it's late
23:19*glx:#openttd says good night
23:19<@Belugas:#openttd>yup
23:19<@Belugas:#openttd>me too
23:19<@Belugas:#openttd>good night
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---Logclosed Sat May 02 00:00:55 2009