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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-10

---Logopened Sun May 10 00:00:54 2009
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00:20<z-MaTRiX>hi
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00:20<z-MaTRiX>hmm
00:21<z-MaTRiX>your dns checker has some bug
00:21<Nite_Owl>most of the European crowd is asleep
00:21<z-MaTRiX>[061949] * *** Your forward and reverse DNS do not match, ignoring hostname.
00:21<z-MaTRiX>[062036] * *** Found your hostname
00:22<z-MaTRiX>hi Nite_Owl what's up?
00:22<Nite_Owl>DNS in relation to what?
00:22<z-MaTRiX>pasted from snotices
00:22<z-MaTRiX>but reverse is ok.
00:22<z-MaTRiX>sometimes it says fail
00:23<Nite_Owl>what were you trying to access
00:23<z-MaTRiX>me? this irc channel
00:23<z-MaTRiX>with my subdomain
00:24<z-MaTRiX>(it's ok now)
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01:14<torahteen>Agh, okay... could someone explain how to get a PBS signal system working?
01:14<torahteen>Which signals go where?
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05:53<SmoovTruck>quick question... what is the key/mouse combination to flip an engine around in a multi-headed train, in the depot window?
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>ctrl+click
05:54-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejl244.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>but it only works for single engines, not articulated ones
05:56<SmoovTruck>right...
05:57<TrueBrain>no, left click
05:57<SmoovTruck>oh well... it is a single engine, but is throwing out the multiple unit error
05:58<SmoovTruck>probably the GRF author's oversight
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>well then it's not a single engine
05:58<SmoovTruck>but it is a single engine
06:01<TrueBrain>"it is" - "it isn't" ... I love this conversation :)
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06:05<Alberth>highly constructive :)
06:06<Alberth>SmoovTruck: it may look like a single engine to you, but the game doesn't look at graphics, it looks at data supplied by the GRF author.
06:07<Alberth>and like all information supplied more than once, it may be inconsistent
06:07<SmoovTruck>which brings us back to "probably the GRF author's oversight"... doesn't it...
06:07<Alberth>yep
06:07<SmoovTruck>which I already said... so... why continue to argue?
06:08-!-SmoovTruck is now known as Smoovious
06:08<@petern>unm
06:08<@petern>well
06:08<Alberth>(11:59:00) SmoovTruck: but it is a single engine <-- because you continued
06:08<@petern>if it's articulated...
06:08<Smoovious>in response to Eddi|zuHause
06:08<Smoovious>it is not articulated
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06:10<@petern>if it's not an MU, and not articulated, there are no restrictions
06:10<@petern>there is nothing in a grf that can change that
06:10-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcdc7.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
06:10<@petern>so maybe it's a bug :p
06:10<Smoovious>I agree
06:10<@petern>more like it's a 'hidden' articulation
06:11<@petern>*likely
06:11<Smoovious>yeah, whatever
06:11<@petern>yeah, whatever
06:11<Smoovious>it is a single electrical unit... not an articulared steam engine... not a multiple unit...
06:11*Smoovious shrugs.
06:11<@petern>without any information, only you can know
06:12<Smoovious>anyways, thanks for the command help... back to the game
06:12<@petern>for example, some of the 'single' electric engines in dbsetxl are articulated
06:13<Smoovious>this one, however, is not
06:14<TrueBrain>and it continues: "it is" - "it isn't" - "it is" - "it isn't"
06:14<TrueBrain>I should record this :)
06:14<Alberth>oftc.net does already, you only need to record the url :)
06:15<TrueBrain>oftc.net does? :)
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06:24<frosch123>http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=1454 <- the error messages says "too many newgrfs", though the scrollbar is at 60% :p
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06:29<Ammler>coop pack has 200 newgrfs.
06:30<frosch123>so he only loaded the half of it?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>what weird kind of format is that? it opens in GIMP instead of Gwenview...
06:30<frosch123>the quality looks like jpeg
06:31<frosch123>http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=4060 <- also a quite brilliant post
06:31<TrueBrain>german, blegh
06:32<frosch123>TrueBrain: it gives me a nice start into the day after dreaming about 3 bugs
06:32*FR^2 throws some sauerkraut at TrueBrain ;)
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06:32<TrueBrain>why do you dream about bugs?! :)
06:33-!-Milloflex [ABC123@h-85-185.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
06:34<frosch123>you should not ask, but commiserate
06:34<Milloflex>understood.
06:35<frosch123>:)
06:35<Milloflex>;-)
06:35<Milloflex>time for breakfast, brb
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06:48<z-MaTRiX>hi
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06:48<Alberth>frosch123: yes, good post. "es macht auch überhaupt keinen Sinn die originale Spielidee mit immer mehr zusätzlichen Spielkonzeptionen zu überfrachten." (it doesn't make sense to 'overload' the original game idea with more and more additional game concepts.)
06:49<frosch123>I did not mean that post :p
06:49<Alberth>I skipped some parts, too many difficult words :p
06:53<frosch123>the italic part is the most interesting part
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07:19<Alberth>:)
07:35<Ammler>"You're seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file."
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08:15<insulfrog>hi
08:16<@SmatZ>hello insulfrog
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08:26<Milloflex>is there anyway to change singal type trough any hotkey? 'S' brings up the singal, that i know.
08:27<el_en>did you mean: signal
08:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16264 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Change/Fix (r16262): [NoAI] Change SLOPE_INVALID to 0xFFFF so that SLOPE_INVALID != (SLOPE_ELEVATED | SLOPE_STEEP | SLOPE_HALFTILE_MASK).
08:27<TrueBrain>el_en: I think we can safely assume he did mean that .. don't be a jerk ;)
08:28<el_en>TrueBrain: if someone systematically misspells a word, mentioning about it is not enough for being a jerk.
08:29<TrueBrain>el_en: lol, I didn't know there was a written scale of when you are a jerk and not ;) :) :)
08:30<@petern>there need not be one
08:30<el_en>something new to learn every day :)
08:30<TrueBrain>ghehe
08:30<@petern>yeah, like how to spell signal
08:33<el_en>it's not spelled "singal" even in swedish.
08:33<TrueBrain>we can't all be as briliant as you two
08:35<Milloflex>found some strange begavior in a trin intersection where the train aren't moving even though it has a clear path. anyone would like to see the save game?
08:36<insulfrog>yes please, what OTTD build is the savegame for and what GRFs used in it?
08:37<Westie>Milloflex: Signals?
08:37<insulfrog>electrification?
08:37*Westie runs
08:37<Milloflex>Westie, signals
08:38<Westie>(off topic) hand or red-indian smoke?
08:39<Milloflex>insulfrog, ehm... i'm using the released stable version. maybe this has been fixed already i dont know. where can i see what GRF and build?
08:40<insulfrog>if you're using the most stable build, its not a problem, send me the savegame anyway, what the heck :p
08:41<Alberth>Milloflex: if it is an electric train, try upgrading the tracks to electrical. It should fail.
08:42<insulfrog>also, make sure that up tracks are not connected the down tracks by mistake
08:42<insulfrog>(and vice verser)
08:43<el_en>english only, no latin! ;)
08:43<frosch123>which latin?
08:43<insulfrog>bbl
08:43<Westie>*vice verca
08:44<TrueBrain>that latin pig over there
08:44-!-insulfrog is now known as insulfrog_bbl
08:44<Westie>If you want to do latin
08:44<Westie>GET IT RIGHT
08:44<Westie>:3
08:44<el_en>insulfrog_bbl: how important are you?
08:44<frosch123>Westie: vice versa
08:44<Westie>good job
08:45<frosch123>If you want to do latin ... :p
08:52<Ammler>It seems not that easy with industries, like it was with the houses. (lower production <1930)
08:53*jonty-comp is now running a cargodest+is2 server
08:54<jonty-comp>it seems to work, surprisingly
08:54<jonty-comp>although I haven't done much yet
08:54<jonty-comp>I had to change the version string to norev000 though, because alain compiled the win32 binary like that and VC++ won't compile it at all
08:54<jonty-comp>it compiles the dedicated fine in linux though
08:55<frosch123>Ammler: if you do not care about the default placement rules (like sirkoz) you can override the industries without the need to define new graphics
08:57<Ammler>I just like everything like it is, just reduced production, so the horses can handle it.
09:02-!-insulfrog_bbl is now known as insulfrog
09:03<insulfrog>back from lunch is me :)
09:04<TrueBrain>stupid python ... I can't seem to import a package with the same name as the file I am in now from site-package
09:05<insulfrog>now, back to the savegame that you sent me to look at
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09:15<insulfrog>hmm, the jam on the savegame is caused by the trains breaking down and causing a tailback, what I would suuggest is that I would upgrade to quad track with frequent crossovers with PBS
09:16-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
09:17<insulfrog>also, there is no need for pre-signals to be 2-way
09:21*insulfrog looks for the actual junction in question where the problem is located
09:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16265 /trunk/src/network/ (core/address.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Fix (r16238): wrong format string for debug output
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09:46<insulfrog>Milloflex, I have been looking at the savegame you sent me and there are a couple of things that I like to point out.
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09:47<Milloflex>my bad?
09:47<Milloflex>insulfrog.
09:47<insulfrog>for the current junctions, there is very little use of PBS, thus junctions are not very effective
09:49<insulfrog>most of the traffic jams are caused by trains breaking down - those lines, you could quadruple with frequent crossovers
09:50<insulfrog>also make sure that the lines are actually complete
09:50<insulfrog>also, the pre-signals does not need to be 2-way
09:50<insulfrog>(btw, which company colour are you?)
09:55<insulfrog>I believe that is it :)
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10:07<Milloflex>insulfrog, ehm.. "milloflex". not sure which color that was... green?
10:07<insulfrog>sorry :)
10:08<Milloflex>PBS?
10:08<insulfrog>path based signalling
10:08<Milloflex>are you talking about the junctions at the train station, or at a junction in no-where?
10:09<insulfrog>one of your signals is back-to-front
10:09<Milloflex>i see... well i'm using the quite a lot i think? maybe you were looking at the wrong color?
10:09<Milloflex>oh ok
10:09<Milloflex>i saved the game at (what I though was) the problem area
10:10<insulfrog>near flunningpool, one of the PBS signals is facing the wrong way
10:12<Milloflex>oh, ok
10:12<Milloflex>sry about that
10:15<insulfrog>also in the same area, the combo pre-signal at the entrance to flunningpool central should be a 2-way PBS signal (the PBS signal without the crossbeam)
10:17<insulfrog>(hmm, what else is there?)
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10:22<Milloflex>feels scary to use the 2-way PBS even though no trains can enter from the "behind" when there is a train at the station... :p
10:22<Milloflex>so... 2-ways PBS on all the station i guess
10:23<Brianett1>insulfrog? I have those on my layout.
10:23<insulfrog>good aren't they :p
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10:24-!-brianetta is now known as Brianetta
10:24<Brianetta>They're OK
10:24<insulfrog>ahem anyway, 2 way PBS is the way to go, only use 1 way PBS when you want the train to only trains to go one way (like on ro-ro stations)
10:25<Brianetta>I use one way PBS betwen PBS areas and automatically signalled lines
10:25<insulfrog>also put PBS where you want trains to stop (such as entrance of junctions)
10:26<insulfrog>but never on exits
10:26<Milloflex>yeah
10:26<Brianetta>never?
10:27<Milloflex>sucks switching between them when building
10:27<Brianetta>I've had good reason to do that in the past
10:27<Booth>use a reverse PBS on exit to creat a track penalty
10:27<Milloflex>i asked before, but i'll ask again - is there any hotkeys to switch between signals when building?
10:27<Brianetta>basically, when the area after the junction is even more sensitive to blockage than the junction itself.
10:28<Booth>press crtl on a PC
10:28<Milloflex>ctrl and then what?
10:28<Booth>and it cycles through all possible signal layouts
10:28<Booth>click
10:28<Milloflex>oh ok
10:28<Milloflex>thanks alot
10:28<Booth>or use teh signal GUI
10:28<Milloflex>would prefer not :p
10:29<Milloflex>take time to move the coursor up there every time
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10:44<insulfrog>I have not played openttd multiplayer for a while, I might have a go on a server at some point
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10:47<z-MaTRiX>helo :)
10:47<insulfrog>I used to like playing on the 'fair play' and the 'openttdcoop' servers, I think I have played once or maybe twice on the 'Brianetta's standard' server
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11:11<insulfrog>Has anyone managed to get onto Brianetta's Standard server's web site www.ppcis.org/standard/ ?
11:12<Rubidium>yes
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11:13<Rubidium>actually, Brianetta: on http://www.ppcis.org/standard/rules.cgi there's a 'repeeated' which would like to get rid of an 'e' ;)
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11:15<TrueBrain>where is Belugas if you need him :p
11:16<z-MaTRiX>hello
11:16<z-MaTRiX>;>
11:16*frosch123 feeds the birds
11:16<el_en>z-MaTRiX: will you be Belugas tonight?
11:17<z-MaTRiX>what do you mean by "Belugas"?
11:17<Milloflex>insulfrog, yeah you should go play some multiplayer. ;-)
11:17<frosch123>belugas is a species of wale
11:17<TrueBrain>smells good when baked
11:17<Milloflex>hm. is there a way to merge two stations that isn't next to each other?
11:18<Milloflex>cause i've seen ppl place 1x1 stations ~4 tails away and they would stay connected i belive
11:18<Rubidium>frosch123: belugas is plural ;)
11:18<frosch123>ok, next try: beluga is a species of whale
11:18<z-MaTRiX>i don't getit
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11:18<frosch123>Milloflex: press ctrl while building the station
11:19<Milloflex>ctrl all over
11:19<Milloflex>thanks frosch123.
11:19<insulfrog1>Has anyone managed to get onto Brianetta's Standard server's web site www.ppcis.org/standard/ ?
11:19<frosch123>or build a big station and use the remove tool to destroy single tiles
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11:19<z-MaTRiX>[171629] el_en z-MaTRiX: will you be Belugas tonight? - why would i be a whale tonight?
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11:19<Rubidium>insulfrog: yes
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11:20<@petern>oh no, sirxavious is complaining at me, what shall i do!!!
11:20<insulfrog>well, I can't manage to get on, as it always asks me to DL something
11:20<frosch123>the matrix just got modified
11:21-!-goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-167.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:21<@petern>insulfrog, download the grf pack from that website
11:22<insulfrog>its not the GRF, its the web site
11:22<el_en>*it's
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11:22<insulfrog>I can't access the www.ppcis.org/standard/ web site
11:22<@petern>with firefox?
11:22<Rubidium>insulfrog: then slap your ISP's peering
11:23<Sacro>works fine here
11:23<z-MaTRiX>server pinged out
11:23<insulfrog>no, with internet explorer
11:23<Forked>the website works just fine here
11:23<@petern>probably IE being stupid about xhtml then
11:23<insulfrog>hmm...
11:23<@petern>which is only several years old
11:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16266 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Documentation: [NoAI] Add details to AITile::(Raise|Lower)Tile wrt. modifiing multiple corners at once.
11:23<Milloflex>http://www.ppcis.org/standard/ works for me
11:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16267 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_types.hpp: -Documentation: [NoAI] Explain how to deal with IDs of various objects.
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11:28<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43449&start=40 <- is that supposed to be a single tile in ultra-ultra-hyper-zoom ?
11:29-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F07F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:30<TrueBrain>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=109366 <- still looks cool :)
11:31<Alberth>TB: somewhat less parking space would be preferable
11:32<Milloflex>if you have 'enable signal gui' enabled and CTRL click when placing the first signal, it places a semaphore even though 'auto build semephore after year' is past. is this correct behavior?
11:32<TrueBrain>not talking about what is exactly in the image :)
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11:34<Alberth>Milloflex: yes, see http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
11:34<Milloflex>(if you disable signal gui and CTRL click setting the first signal is places a electric signal)
11:34<Milloflex>ok
11:35<Alberth>hmm, weird. I'd expect consistent behavior.
11:35<Milloflex>yeah me too :p
11:37<Alberth>it is consistent for me. you also have to disable the 'enable signal gui' advanced setting
11:37<Milloflex>i hate semaphores. they should really not be the default ones if 'auto build semaphore after year' is past.
11:38<Rubidium>building signals with CTRL pressed toggles the electric/semaphore state
11:39<TrueBrain>why do people always feel the need to contact you via PMs?!
11:39-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
11:39<z-MaTRiX>heheh
11:40<Milloflex>i know i know
11:40<Milloflex>feels more private
11:40<TrueBrain>I don't like people feeling my privates
11:40<z-MaTRiX>thinking on reply
11:40<Rubidium>TrueBrain: because they desperately want to be on your ignore list (or have something important to talk to you about, although that's less likely to happen)
11:42<z-MaTRiX>people get dizzy from many lines being written on a channel, and trying to get less talk to the channel by opening PMs? As a side effect, developers PM-s will become crowded ;>
11:42<TrueBrain>if you find IRC confusing, use the forum
11:42<TrueBrain>simple as that
11:42-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
11:43<TrueBrain>you can't randomly harrash developers because you have a question :)
11:43<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16268 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9876): When callback 2E returns an amount of 0, do not transport 1 unit to the station.
11:43<insulfrog>hmm...
11:43<frosch123>TrueBrain was wondering about 'nice' numbers, wasn't he?
11:43<TrueBrain>you find 16268 nice?
11:43<frosch123>9876
11:43<TrueBrain>ghehe
11:44<TrueBrain>;)
11:44<Rubidium>why not callback 2B? ;)
11:44<z-MaTRiX>:)
11:44<Milloflex>Alberth, my bad. i was dragging the mouse while placing signals. thus the "diffrent" behavior.
11:44<Alberth>k
11:44*insulfrog is wondering why http://ppcis.org/standard is getting a 404 error while trying to load
11:45<TrueBrain>omg, how long can you go on about that url?
11:45<TrueBrain>find Brianetta and ask him or something
11:45<Sacro>insulfrog: what browser?
11:45<insulfrog>Internet Explorer and AOL
11:46<Sacro>Ah
11:46<Sacro>IE shouldn't work on that website
11:46<Sacro>as it uses application/xhtml+xml as it should
11:47<insulfrog>but that is with IE7 but I have not tried it with IE8 yet
11:47-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db01642.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
11:48<insulfrog>some may reccomend firefox but I'm not sure if it will conflict with AOL or not
11:49<Sacro>nope, firefox would be fine
11:49<TrueBrain>lol ... AOL shuts you down for using FireFox yes
11:49<Sacro>does it?
11:50<insulfrog>(I could always set up a restore point)
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11:50<Sacro>that'd make... no difference
11:51<TrueBrain>btw, Sacro, it is a flaw of the website. as indicated by http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#application-xhtml-xml: "agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type"
11:52<TrueBrain>so it doesn't use application/xhtml+xml 'as it should' ;) (ghehe :))
11:52<Sacro>TrueBrain: the w3c also state that sending xhtml as text/html is wrong
11:52<TrueBrain>but in this case is very explicit not allowed to send application/xhtml+xml when the agent doesn't say it supports it :)
11:53<TrueBrain>so even if text/html is wrong, this is more wrong ;)
11:54<Sacro>hmm
11:55<Sacro>unless he uses the php header script that does it automagically
11:55<Sacro>i've not checked his source
11:55<TrueBrain>clearly it fails, so ;)
11:55<TrueBrain>but I should remember this trick to disallow IE access :)
11:56<Sacro>Yeah
11:56<Sacro>IE doesn't understand application/xhtml+xml
11:56<Sacro>it will offer the site as a download
11:56<Sacro>rather than rendering it
11:56<TrueBrain>design choice, nothing wrong with that
11:57<TrueBrain>(well, the lack of support is of course something different ;))
11:58<Sacro>hmmm
11:59<TrueBrain>btw, in this case text/html is valid by w3c
12:00<TrueBrain>(no namespaces are used :))
12:00<Sacro>hmm
12:01<TrueBrain>http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#compatGuidelines <- when it complies with this, text/html is allowed by w3c ;)
12:02<TrueBrain>it basicly sums up what makes a page HTML compatible :p Ghehe :)
12:03<Milloflex>"<TrueBrain> lol ... AOL shuts you down for using FireFox yes" ??
12:03<TrueBrain>people really don't understand sarcasm ...
12:03<Milloflex>didn't see the hole conversation
12:03<Milloflex>:p
12:03<Milloflex>was away eating and stuff
12:03<TrueBrain>that line alone should be enough to detect that
12:03-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
12:03<Milloflex>BUT ok!
12:03<TrueBrain>and even if not: don't comment on it if you don't followed the conversation
12:04<Milloflex>i didnt
12:04<Milloflex>just asked
12:04<TrueBrain>still failing to detect sarcasm
12:04<z-MaTRiX>bored developers can tell me what does the fast forward button do?
12:04<TrueBrain>it fast forwards the game
12:04<TrueBrain>oh no .. suprise! :)
12:04<z-MaTRiX>it was not much faster than without it
12:05<z-MaTRiX>maeby i have a low-end computer
12:05<Milloflex>TrueBrain, "we can't all be as brilliant as you" ;-)
12:05<TrueBrain>normally every tick has 30ms between them (if the game can keep up with it)
12:05<Yexo>then a) you were using a debug build or b) your computer isn't fast enough
12:06<TrueBrain>fastforward removes the sleep
12:06<TrueBrain>(and so the games runs as fast as possible)
12:06<z-MaTRiX>oh so it must be my computer's limit
12:06<TrueBrain>well .. 3000 trains requires a bit of CPU :p
12:07<Yexo>as do 2048x2048 maps
12:07<z-MaTRiX>AI is so CPU intensive? :)
12:07<TrueBrain>can be, yes
12:07<Yexo>that too
12:07<TrueBrain>15 AIs tend to do :p
12:07<z-MaTRiX>ok thank you, i see
12:07<TrueBrain>disabling full animation is an other nice thing to do
12:08<z-MaTRiX>to speed up?
12:08<TrueBrain>yup
12:08<TrueBrain>even more in 32bpp :p
12:08<z-MaTRiX>i guess AI should eat way more CPU than graphics am i right?
12:08<TrueBrain>running pixel-animation is not that quick on modern computers :)
12:08<TrueBrain>depends on a lot of things
12:09<TrueBrain>when your AI is wrightAI, and you run 32bpp zoom-out on 3320x1080
12:09<TrueBrain>than graphic takes more CPU
12:09<z-MaTRiX>yep, tried it :)
12:09<TrueBrain>I mean, dah
12:09<TrueBrain>you can make everything slower than something else
12:09<z-MaTRiX>this is reason there are no more zoom out levels?
12:10<TrueBrain>don't think so
12:10<TrueBrain>(well, I am pretty sure :p)
12:10<TrueBrain>tiles are 64x32 pixels
12:10<TrueBrain>zoom-out is now 16x
12:10<TrueBrain>that makes each tiles 4x2
12:10<TrueBrain>I don't think we can draw tiles anymore if you zoom out any more :)
12:11<TrueBrain>(or was 8x max zoom-out? I only remember I once made 16x :p)
12:11<z-MaTRiX>only with AA AF
12:11<z-MaTRiX>ok get the point
12:12<TrueBrain>8x is the current max
12:12<TrueBrain>so each tiles is just 8x4
12:12<TrueBrain>like ... REALLY small :)
12:12<z-MaTRiX>anyway it would be a map-like look
12:12<TrueBrain>OpenTTD limits are rarely there because of the CPU
12:12<TrueBrain>for that you have the minimap ;)
12:13<frosch123>which also would need some zoom :p
12:13<TrueBrain>zoomable minimap would be nice :)
12:13<z-MaTRiX>:)
12:13<TrueBrain>minimap still needs a complete rewrite :) Nasty piece of code .....
12:13<TrueBrain>one of the few places I never understood ... at all ....
12:14<z-MaTRiX>just thought about a mini magnifier around mouse cursor when zoomed out full extent
12:14<z-MaTRiX>so more accurate autoplacing could be done in a long railroad line
12:15<Yexo>somebody already made a patch for that recetly
12:15<z-MaTRiX>wow
12:15<z-MaTRiX>know the name ?
12:15<Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43473 tracking viewport
12:16<z-MaTRiX>ty cool
12:16<@petern>people still use AOL? haha
12:17<z-MaTRiX>tell you worse, people still use msn!
12:17<z-MaTRiX>and they click on the password stealing links, give pass
12:17<el_en>msn, the network superior to internet?
12:19<TrueBrain>z-MaTRiX: could you follow the conversation?! :) :)
12:20<z-MaTRiX>oh sry
12:20<TrueBrain>hahahaha :)
12:21<Westie>z-Matrix: That sucks, all of my friends have got that 'Westie, IS THAT YOU? LOLOLOOLOL' ettc.
12:22<z-MaTRiX>yep, how much cooler would it be if it would say "get linux, play OpenTTD!"
12:22<@petern>bootable openttd cd :D
12:24<Sacro>epic
12:24<insulfrog>bbl
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12:25<z-MaTRiX>btw how can it be done to have greater resolution with mouse pointing if using a viewport?
12:27<z-MaTRiX>was thinking about mouse moves "zoomed out", so relative in "zoomed in area" mouse would move n-times fast
12:29<yorick>z-MaTRiX: but with the zoomed in viewport, you can see where you're pointing
12:29<z-MaTRiX>yes it's a cool feature
12:41-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
12:42<z-MaTRiX>hahah
12:42<z-MaTRiX>that was ethereal
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13:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16269 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 6 dirs):
13:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: use gcc's ability to check parameters sent to printf-like functions
13:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Fix: wrong number of parameters or wrong parameter types sent to printf-like functions at several places
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13:58<TrueBrain>LA LA LA!
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14:01<jonty-comp>ba ba ti ki di do
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14:04<yorick>any reason why you can only ban 25 ips and no more?
14:04-!-batti5_ is now known as batti5
14:04<TrueBrain>suggestion: ban 0.0.0.0/0
14:05<yorick>then where would I get my players
14:05<TrueBrain>if you want to ban 25 IPs or more, I think you don't want any either way
14:05<yorick>but why was it 25
14:06<@SmatZ>why it shouldn't be 25?
14:06<@SmatZ>would 24 be better or what?
14:06<yorick>because I want to ban more people than 25
14:06<Rubidium>is it 25?
14:06<@SmatZ>then use trunk
14:06<yorick>was it changed?
14:07<yorick>nvm
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14:11*yorick inspects the posibility of backporting r15931 to 0.7
14:18<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Human slaves! In an insect nation!
14:18<Sacro>Prof_Frink: did you see it?
14:18<Prof_Frink>Saw the end of it.
14:19<Sacro>ooh
14:19<Sacro>it's on iplayre
14:19-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet535.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:21<Prof_Frink>I shall watch it after the GP.
14:21*Prof_Frink has spent a nice day on the crag
14:21-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet535.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
14:21<@petern>that's what she said
14:22<Prof_Frink>What, have Jill or Stella been here?
14:22<Sacro>ahh
14:23<Chrill>shag
14:23<Sacro>STELLAAAAAAAAAAAA
14:23<Sacro>STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
14:23*Sacro watnts to watch s treetcar named desire
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14:25<@SmatZ>yorick: if you want over 25 bans in 0.7, increase some magic constant
14:30*petern plays with... yet another synth
14:32<TrueBrain>and? :)
14:34<Hirundo>Bug report: In the news ticker, strings are truncated too early.
14:34<TrueBrain>Bug tracker: http://bugs.openttd.org
14:35<@SmatZ>wasn't that changed/fixed few weeks ago?
14:38<Hirundo>It's in IS development build, which was last synced at....
14:38<Hirundo>r16260
14:38<Rubidium>that doesn't mean IS doesn't introduce the bug
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14:49<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16270 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.h stdafx.h): [MSU] -Fix: compile failures due to updates in trunk
14:50<@petern>TrueBrain, one can never have enough synths
14:50<@petern>although... mine are all software :s
14:52<TrueBrain>petern: I have a 'real' one .. that is .. keyboard with midi output :p
14:52<TrueBrain>just no midi input in my computer .. hmm .. so useless :p
14:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16271 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r16264) [NoAI]: make regression failed
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14:58<+tokai>oups.. wrong menu
14:58<@SmatZ>:-)
14:58<@petern>well, keyboard with midi output to pc with software synth :D
14:58<@petern>although the midi is over usb
14:59<@petern>which, of course, works perfectly well in linux but nothing else
14:59<orava>Hey, is cargodist just "better" version of cargodest?
14:59<@petern>no, it's a 'different' version
14:59<TrueBrain>midi over usb .. that is a nice idea
14:59<@petern>it's standard
14:59<@petern>just this keyboard is awkward, heh
14:59<@petern>it's part of the usb audio stuff
14:59<@petern>you can of course get usb to midi adapters
15:00<orava>petern: but those 2 main point is same, to have destinations to gargo?
15:00-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:00<TrueBrain>guess I need an adapter here ;)
15:05<TrueBrain>30 euros .. pfff ...
15:10<@petern>can be cheaper than that
15:12<+glx>build it yourself :)
15:12<TrueBrain>to usb?
15:12<TrueBrain>is a bit hard to do in a way you can reuse it :p
15:12<+glx>usb pic
15:12<TrueBrain>reuse is not the word .. euh .. robust
15:13<+glx>I built an usb "adapter" for my sega genesis pads
15:15<TrueBrain>I once built a XLR controller via USB
15:15<TrueBrain>worked for like ... 3 months :p
15:15<TrueBrain>then I dropped it .. didn't survive :p
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15:15<+glx>it works better than the parallel port adapter (for the same pads) I used before
15:17<+glx>anyway my usb adpater doesn't look bad externally (but don't open the box ;) )
15:17<TrueBrain>ghehe
15:18<+glx>parallel port was clean too (all inside the db25 case)
15:22-!-Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
15:25-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
15:27<z-MaTRiX>writing music for OTTD ?
15:27<FR^2>Hmm. Cool, that version 0.7 :)
15:28<FR^2>Maybe I'll write an AI myself copying my strange style of playing *g*
15:28<z-MaTRiX>0.8 is better
15:28<Xaroth>0.8 isn't released yet.
15:28*TrueBrain releases 0.8
15:28<z-MaTRiX>:)
15:28<Xaroth>now it is
15:29<z-MaTRiX>no don't do it, it would cause a paradoxon
15:29<Alberth>0.8 jumps away into the free air
15:29<dihedral>hop
15:29-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226197010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
15:30<TrueBrain>oh noes, a dihedral
15:30*FR^2 patches the sources to show version "0.9.0"
15:30*frosch123 shoots it down :p
15:30<FR^2>Ha, mine is even better!
15:30*TrueBrain commits a patch which will kill FR^2's computer
15:31<FR^2>:(
15:31<Alberth>FR^2: changelog of 0.9.0 seems a bit short. It needs some more hacking.
15:31<FR^2>Alberth: Hm. How about random indentation of the sourcecode?
15:31<Alberth>that is not changelog worthy
15:32<TrueBrain>how does that effect a changelog?
15:32<FR^2>And then simply taking the log of the vcs ;)
15:32<Alberth>it garbles the log :p
15:32<TrueBrain>I ahven't played my keyboard in ages ....
15:33*z-MaTRiX writes OpenTTD in ASM and optimizes for speed, then gives version 1.0
15:33<TrueBrain>why not directly in C#?
15:33<TrueBrain>or in Python?
15:33<FR^2>Hmm. Or how about running an obfuscator over the sources, commit and then try to find suitable variable and filenames etc? *eg*
15:33<TrueBrain>or the worst suggestion ever: in java
15:34<TrueBrain>FR^2: we already have that; we call it TTD
15:34<FR^2>Oh, someone knows what he's talking about, heh?
15:34<FR^2>Well, anyway, enough kidding. I'll spare you more of my flat jokes. Good night everyone.
15:34<TrueBrain>night FR^2
15:34<FR^2>night TrueBrain
15:34<z-MaTRiX>byte
15:35<frosch123>you should do more traditional things, like: as ottd can execute squirrel you should of course rewrite ottd in squirrel
15:35-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
15:35<TrueBrain>frosch123: and then make squirrel compile in squirrel, bootstrap it, and tada! :)
15:35<@SmatZ>:-D
15:36<Rubidium>writing it in NewGRF would be much better! :)
15:36<TrueBrain>Rubidium: now that is just silly
15:36*frosch123 wonders whether FR^2 always used that leave message of whether he choosed it matching to the discussion
15:37<TrueBrain>Taten is ..?
15:37-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051117147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:37-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>"deeds"
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>"actions"
15:38<frosch123>TrueBrain: it is similiar to those things which are usually said about sirxavius in this channel
15:38<frosch123>stop talking, do something
15:38<TrueBrain>sirwho? :)
15:39<z-MaTRiX>have you been thinking about including an mp3 player in game?
15:39<TrueBrain>who?
15:39<frosch123>orudge already did
15:39<frosch123>(afaik)
15:40<frosch123>TrueBrain: the ottd+500 gui
15:40<z-MaTRiX>oh wrong time sorry
15:40<TrueBrain>frosch123: ah :)
15:40<frosch123>where 500 means the number of topics opened or so
15:41<TrueBrain>Well, I still don't find it that odd that he tries to motivate others to do the job .. je need those people too ;) still amazing he got this far with his ideas and shit
15:41<frosch123>judging by the "old topic" he spent two years writing those stuff down. so yes, not everyone could do that.
15:42<TrueBrain>most give up after N days :)
15:42<TrueBrain>well .. most sane people ;)
15:42<frosch123>and 5 lines :p
15:42<TrueBrain>but .. without insane people, the world could not survive :)
15:42<z-MaTRiX>but it is fun asking same things as N people does daily :)
15:42<Rubidium>without insane people there are no sane people
15:42<TrueBrain>"Never tell a young person that something cannot be done. God may have been waiting for centuries for somebody ignorant enough of the impossibility to do that thing." --Dr. J.A. Holmes
15:44*frosch123 is an old chap
15:44*z-MaTRiX age -99
15:44<TrueBrain>my age overflowed twice already
15:44<TrueBrain>really annoying
15:45<TrueBrain>I should be more nerdy, and start using three times
15:45<z-MaTRiX>define time plz
15:45<frosch123>do you measure it with one bcd digit?
15:45<Rubidium>TrueBrain: you shouldn't count your age with your fingers! ;)
15:46<TrueBrain>frosch123: first one, yes .. considered it stupid, so started to use 4 bits :p
15:46<TrueBrain>3 bits
15:46<TrueBrain>hmm
15:46<TrueBrain>what ever!
15:46<TrueBrain>STOP ANNOYING ME!
15:46-!-Rubidium [~Rubidium@2001:1af8:fe2e:115::2] has left #openttd [okay ;)]
15:46<Xaroth>o_O
15:46<frosch123>oh noes, now he will again sit in the corner for one week
15:46<frosch123>:p
15:47<TrueBrain>he, don't judge a person for him fancying a corner ;)
15:47-!-PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:47<PeteT>!help
15:47-!-PeteT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
15:47<Xaroth>har har
15:47*Xaroth was waiting for that
15:47<TrueBrain>I only read about this way of kicking
15:48<TrueBrain>never seen it in action
15:48*TrueBrain feels all warm and fuzzy now :)
15:49-!-PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:49-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db01642.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: gn8]
15:49<PeteT>hi
15:49<PeteT>!help
15:49-!-PeteT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
15:49<frosch123>:o
15:49<Xaroth>donkey, stone, twice
15:49-!-PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:50<PeteT>hello
15:50<frosch123>hi
15:50<welshdragon>PeteT: say !help
15:50<PeteT>no
15:51<PeteT>i always get kicked
15:51<PeteT>when i type !help
15:51<welshdragon>you're a smart one
15:51<PeteT>You have been kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
15:51<PeteT>thats what it says
15:51<PeteT>but why does it kick?
15:51<frosch123>try with reading what it says
15:51<+glx>because we don't have this command :)
15:52<Alberth>too many people typing wrong commands
15:53<Pikka>!help
15:53-!-Pikka was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
15:53-!-Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-66-158.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
15:53<Xaroth>donkey, stone, thrice?
15:53<Pikka>wut :D
15:54*planetmaker wonders what people consider entertainment
15:54<PeteT>how do you do that?
15:54<PeteT>planet maker wonders what people consider entertainment
15:54<Xaroth>/me text
15:54<PeteT>do you just add a "*" to the front?
15:55<Alberth>try /help /action
15:55<Xaroth>planetmaker: That, most likely.
15:55<PeteT>asdf
15:55<yorick>* doesn't wonder how people do this
15:55<Xaroth>yorick fails once again :P
15:55<planetmaker>hehe, Xaroth obviously :)
15:55<yorick>Xaroth: if I want to fail, and fail, do I still fail?
15:56<planetmaker>PeteT: I type "/me sais something fancy"
15:56-!-el_en is now known as You
15:56*yorick is now known as We
15:56<Xaroth>yep, you succeed at your attempt to fail, as such, you fail at failing because you succeeded
15:56*You have been kicked.
15:56<TrueBrain>@kick You granted
15:56-!-You was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [granted]
15:56<Xaroth>haha
15:56<yorick>:D
15:56<planetmaker>hahaha :)
15:57*PeteT hi
15:57<@SmatZ>*** You has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek <=== grammar fail
15:57<Xaroth>TrueBrain 1 : el_en 0
15:57*PeteT says hi
15:57-!-yorick is now known as We
15:57<PeteT>!nick Peter
15:57*We were kicked by TB
15:57<TrueBrain>@kban We 600 you too
15:57-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by DorpsGek
15:57-!-We was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you too]
15:57<planetmaker>:P
15:57<planetmaker>self fulfilling prophecy.
15:57<PeteT>what do we talk about in openttd irc?
15:57-!-_ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
15:58<TrueBrain>10 fun ways to kick a person PeteT
15:58<planetmaker>hm.... let me guess.
15:58<Hirundo_>ttdpatch?
15:58<planetmaker>doom
15:58<PeteT>you know what i mean
15:58<planetmaker>is
15:58<planetmaker>upon
15:58<planetmaker>us
15:58<PeteT>like servers?
15:58<PeteT>general gameplay?
15:58<Xaroth>general development, and the meaning of life
15:58<PeteT>new ideas for future versions?
15:58<TrueBrain>no
15:58<@SmatZ>[21:58:48] <PeteT> new ideas for future versions? <=== please no!
15:58<planetmaker>:D
15:59<TrueBrain>that is a no-can-do topic here
15:59<PeteT>lol
15:59<PeteT>ok
15:59<planetmaker>PeteT: it's preferred to come up with solutions instead of suggestions :)
15:59<frosch123>PeteT: do not talk about realism or snow on monday to friday 8 am to 5 pm (quebec time)
15:59<PeteT>what command do i use for changing my name?
16:00<planetmaker>haha :)
16:00<Xaroth>/nick <nickname>
16:00<@SmatZ>PeteT: /part
16:00<planetmaker>frosch123: but his logs are running
16:00<TrueBrain>bad SmatZ, bad bad bad SmatZ :)
16:00<PeteT>didnt work
16:00<planetmaker>:O
16:00<_ln>/disco very
16:00<PeteT>i press enter and it just goes away
16:00<PeteT>NICK PeterT
16:00<TrueBrain>maybe .. just maybe .. because that name is already in use?
16:00<TrueBrain>check your status window
16:01<PeteT>im using it in another channel, does that make it not work?
16:01<TrueBrain>lol
16:01<TrueBrain>we have a real newbie
16:01<TrueBrain>how sweet :)
16:01<@SmatZ>:o)
16:01<TrueBrain>PeteT: you can't have 2 nicknames in 2 channels on the same network :)
16:02<PeteT>i am a noob
16:02<_ln>PeteT: /quit and /exit were fighting. which one of them won?
16:02<PeteT>i just got this IRC client today
16:02<PeteT>...../exit
16:02<PeteT>:D
16:02<_ln>alright
16:02<planetmaker>he...
16:05<TrueBrain>28 days to download a serie ...
16:05<TrueBrain>blegh
16:06<planetmaker>PeteT: I guess you're connected to this network twice.
16:06<Xaroth>7 days to download a new film :/
16:06<PeteT>what film
16:06<planetmaker>that is, if you're the PeterT from #openttdcoop
16:06<PeteT>yes
16:06<PeteT>ok
16:07<PeteT>i cant connect to 2 different servers on the same network, go it
16:07<PeteT>*got it
16:07-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by DorpsGek
16:07-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:08<planetmaker>you could close this client (for #openttd) and type in the chat window of #openttdcoop just "/join #openttd"
16:08<planetmaker>PeteT: you can... but from the same client :)
16:08<planetmaker>not different ones
16:09<PeteT>ok
16:09<PeteT>let me try that
16:09-!-PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #openttd [Leaving]
16:09-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:09<PeterT>ok here
16:09<TrueBrain>should that be scary?
16:09<TrueBrain>"Search engine overloaded, please try again in a few seconds"
16:09<TrueBrain>lovely :(
16:10-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
16:10<PeterT>*hi
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>it's the MAFIAA
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>they sabotage the server ;)
16:11<TrueBrain>would be a very good action btw
16:11<TrueBrain>to use a botnet to hammer their search engine
16:11<TrueBrain>very efficient
16:11<PeterT>what other openttd related servers are there?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>where is something openttd related?
16:11<TrueBrain>that question is so weird, that I don't even have any fun replies :(
16:12<TrueBrain>well, fun for me of course
16:13<frosch123>PeterT: try #tycoon and you will never ask for more channels with more spam
16:14<Xaroth>frosch123: (1-5)on(1-5) on quakenet are worse.
16:14<TrueBrain>argh, I hate it I hate it I hate it when things are outside of scope of my usenet retention :(
16:14<PeterT>ok
16:15<PeterT>what does it mean when a green dot is next to someone's name?
16:15<frosch123>that depends on your client :)
16:15<PeterT>xchat?
16:15<@SmatZ>ask xchat FAQ/manual...
16:15<PeterT>belugas has it
16:16<PeterT>dorps gek has it
16:16<Alberth>PeterT: see http://www.openttd.org/en/ in particular the top row with keywords
16:16<frosch123>PeterT: then it mean to NOT highlight those people, never!
16:16<frosch123>:p
16:16<@SmatZ>PeterT: people with extra power
16:16<@SmatZ>frosch123: "what is highlight" :)
16:20<z-MaTRiX>btw
16:20<z-MaTRiX>TrueBrain, suggest GHC for complex things
16:22-!-TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5CEF0.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:23-!-k20forlif [~rufturbo7@adsl-70-136-31-28.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd
16:24-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226197010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:24-!-k20forlif [~rufturbo7@adsl-70-136-31-28.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has left #openttd []
16:26<TrueBrain>GHC?
16:26<TrueBrain>Gravity Height Collider?
16:28-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:29-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:30-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g226197010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
16:31*petern considers reading sirxavius' pm
16:31<planetmaker>:D
16:31<TrueBrain>why?
16:31<Xaroth>be careful
16:31<@petern>yeah, true
16:32-!-batti5_ [~batti5@92.82.94.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:33-!-tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:38<Brianetta>[16:51] <TrueBrain> btw, Sacro, it is a flaw of the website.
16:38<Brianetta>It is not a flaw of the web site. The web site follows all guidelines, and is an XHTML web site.
16:38<TrueBrain>Brianetta: check the links surrounding that conversation
16:38<Brianetta>It only supports XHTML user agents, not HTML.
16:38<TrueBrain>it clearly states the website is wrong here :)
16:38<Brianetta>It isn't though.
16:38<Brianetta>Not in the slightest.
16:38<TrueBrain>I hate to repeat myself, so I won't :)
16:39-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:39<PeterT>stupid ISP
16:39<Brianetta>I'm not sure what you could say to change my opinion anyway. It isn't a HTML web site, period.
16:39<PeterT>always randomnly disconnects
16:39<TrueBrain>Brianetta: I call it w3c :)
16:40-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
16:40<TrueBrain>if that isn't a good enough argument, there is no need to argument at all :)
16:41<oskari89>Thought about those waypoints.
16:41-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
16:41<Brianetta>Your argument hinges on W3C's "should" clause
16:41-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:41<Brianetta>That document isn't available as HTML.
16:41<TrueBrain>Brianetta: no, w3c is VERY clear in the use of application/xhtml+xml
16:41-!-Fogel [~Fogel@82.160.60.140] has joined #openttd
16:41<Fogel>hello
16:41<Brianetta>Any more than my banner is available as a JPEG.
16:41<TrueBrain>it is NOT allowed if the agent doesn't EXPLICITly tells you to use it
16:42<oskari89>Could waypoint be used as normal level crossing (modified from code) so it could be used w/ different graphics.
16:42<Brianetta>"The 'application/xhtml+xml' media type [RFC3236] is the primary media type for XHTML Family documents. 'application/xhtml+xml' should be used for serving XHTML documents to XHTML user agents (agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)." -- W3C
16:42<Brianetta>Not the word, "should"
16:42<TrueBrain>"(agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)"
16:42<TrueBrain>how more clear should it be?
16:42<Brianetta>SHOULD
16:42<Brianetta>It isn't mandatory
16:42<Brianetta>Mandatories are indicated by the word "must"
16:42<TrueBrain>exactly; and you use it
16:43<Fogel>i've got a question - how to disable AI doing any action?
16:43<TrueBrain>so you are not following w3c guidelines here :)
16:43-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:43<Fogel>but with AI players present
16:43<Brianetta>"This media type must be used when writing documents using XHTML Family document types that add elements and attributes from foreign namespaces, such as XHTML+MathML"
16:43<Brianetta>THere, I am following the MUST clause
16:43<Yexo>Fogel: why do you want to do that?
16:43<TrueBrain>then complain to w3c they have contradictories in their description
16:43<Yexo>oskari89: of course that's possible by modifying the code, but do you really want that?
16:43<Brianetta>Must overrides should, in all cases.
16:43<oskari89>Yes i do.
16:43<Yexo>or do you just want different graphics for level crossings?
16:43<Brianetta>I have no complaint.
16:43<TrueBrain>"(agents that explicitly indicate they support this media type)" <- I don't read a should
16:44<TrueBrain>and I tihnk that overrules any statement
16:44<Brianetta>It's earlier int he sentence
16:44<Brianetta>I quoted the complete sentence earlier
16:44<TrueBrain>(the word 'explicitly' is more then a 'must')
16:44<Fogel>i want co create sth like a real world simulation - for that i need few companies, but don't want AI to control them
16:44<Brianetta>21:42
16:44<oskari89>I want to use several level crossing types. Like unguarded/ guarded with barriers/ led-warning light
16:44<PeterT>does build ottd work on vista?
16:44<TrueBrain>oh .. why do I bother .. like I care your website is not viewable by IE ..
16:44-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226197010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:44<Yexo>Fogel: easiest is to create an AI that does nothing
16:44<Yexo>follow the example on the wiki and remove all code from the Start function
16:44<Brianetta>explicitly is a descriptive clause, not an instruction
16:45<Brianetta>I certainly don't
16:45<Sacro>TrueBrain: why would anyone care about IE users
16:45<Yexo>PeterT: BuildOTTD does't work at all at this moment
16:45<TrueBrain>Sacro: any sane person :)
16:45<Brianetta>It's an XHTML document. Get an XHTML client.
16:45<Yexo>only the installation works for getting an mingw install
16:45<Brianetta>I don't give a fig which XHTML client the users use.
16:45<TrueBrain>Sacro: it is like ignoring Windows; it would be nice, but you should never do it :)
16:45<Brianetta>IE isn't one.
16:45<PeterT>whats a patching program for noobs?
16:46<oskari89>Yexo: and level crossings could be used as waypoints too. :)
16:46<Yexo>using tortoisesvn + mingw / visual studio
16:46<Brianetta>My site's compatibel with every XHTML client there is.
16:46<PeterT>i looked at the wiki, and compiling on mingw seems really complicated
16:46*SpComb writes an XHTML client that isn't
16:46<PeterT>http://wiki.openttd.org/Mingw
16:46<Brianetta>SpComb: It wouldn't be one.
16:47<SpComb>how many XHTML clients are there then?
16:47<SpComb>zero?
16:47<Yexo>PeterT: that's the easiest it gets, but following the steps there isn't too hard
16:47<PeterT>ok
16:47<Brianetta>Unlike HTML, XHTML support isn't shades of grey.
16:47<Brianetta>SpComb: Firefox is one.
16:47<PeterT>ill try that, but buildottd doesnt even work on XP?
16:47<Yexo>buildottd doesn't work at all unless somebody fixes it
16:48-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejl244.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
16:48<Fogel>Yexo: class MyNewAI extends AIController << MyNewAI inherits from AIController?
16:48<Yexo>yep
16:48<PeterT>yeah, ok. i tried running it in compatibility mode, but nothing...
16:49<PeterT>i dont see the step for inserting the patch file....
16:49-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
16:49<PeterT>is mingw for .patch files?
16:50<oskari89>Yexo: Is level crossing hard-coded on exe or something else?
16:50<Yexo>oskari89: you can replace the graphics with a newgrf file
16:50<Yexo>PeterT: yes, but try to compile without applying a patch first
16:51<PeterT>then when i compile how do i add it?
16:51<PeterT>are there steps for that too?
16:51<Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678 <- sticky in the development forum
16:51<Yexo>tortoisesvn can also apply svn patches for you
16:51-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g226197010.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
16:52<PeterT>ok
16:52<PeterT>man, patching is sorta a pain in the ass
16:52<oskari89>Yexo: But can you use three or four types of level crossings with newgrf without using waypoints?
16:52<TrueBrain>only when you need to get used to it :)
16:52<PeterT>where are these codes like "patch -p0 -i file.diff" entered?
16:52<Yexo>oskari89: no
16:52<Yexo>PeterT: in the mingw shell
16:52<PeterT>ok
16:53<PeterT>and that willl patch, along with tortoise
16:53<PeterT>?
16:53<Fogel>Yexo: and do you know where should i put those files? there is only solution for windows, on linux i have files in few places...
16:53<Yexo>that will patch the source, but that means you need to download the source first
16:53<oskari89>Yexo: How difficult is it to add level crossing option to waypoint?
16:54<Yexo>oskari89: try it yourself, I have no idea
16:54<PeterT>and compiling on mingw is downloading the source
16:54<PeterT>btw, sorry, first time trying to patch
16:54<Yexo>PeterT: that's why I told you to try compiling without any patch first
16:54<Yexo>Fogel: in ~/.openttd/ai/<yourai>/
16:55<PeterT>ok, 1. compile 2. patch with tortoise
16:55<Yexo>or in install_dir/ai/<yourai>/
16:55<PeterT>is that correct?
16:55<Yexo>PeterT: yes, but add "3. recompile the patches source"
16:55<PeterT>uhhhh
16:55<PeterT>ok,
16:55<PeterT>be back when i fail at patching
16:55<Yexo>step 1 (compile) is to make sure you can compile without problems
16:56<PeterT>ok
16:56<Yexo>if that works ok, applying a patch and compiling with that patch is very easy
16:56<PeterT>after the test compile, you apply the patch to that?
16:56<Yexo>no, you apply the patch to the source
16:56<PeterT>oh jesus
16:56<PeterT>this is annoying
16:57<PeterT>let me test compile first
16:57<Yexo>compiling before applying the patch is not needed, but is nice to know so when you run into problems later, you know it's not a problem of your installation, but of the patch
16:57<PeterT>ok
16:58<Yexo>oskari89: does your level crossing have to behave as a level crossing, or only look like one?
17:05<PeterT>when im installing mingw, it asks me what kind of install i want, minimal, full, or custom, which one?
17:07<PeterT>Yexo: when im installing mingw, it asks me what kind of install i want, minimal, full, or custom, which one?
17:07<Yexo># On the install, select Candidate, then select the Minimal install plus the g++ compiler. <- from the wiki
17:08<+glx>use buildottd installer ;)
17:08<PeterT>doesnt work
17:08<PeterT>:(
17:09<PeterT>especially not on vista
17:09<Yexo>the installer does
17:09<Yexo>just buildottd itself not
17:09<+glx>and it's the same on XP :)
17:09<oskari89>Yexo: Behave as level crossing.
17:09<+glx>but you'll get a ready to use mingw install
17:11<PeterT>is "wget-1.9.1", "zlib-1.2.3", and "libpng-1.2.8 " all downloded by mingw?
17:11-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:11<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:12<Yexo>PeterT: I don't think so
17:13<PeterT>Yexo: so i download that and install that too?
17:13<Yexo>yes, just follow the instructions
17:13<PeterT>ok
17:13<Yexo>and try to do that yourself
17:14<PeterT>sorry
17:14<TrueBrain>but he likes it when you hold his hand daddy
17:14<Yexo>ask questions when something doesn't work, but dno't ask everything
17:14<PeterT>TrueBrain: way to make fun of the retard
17:14<TrueBrain>PeterT: it was just a too easy comment :)
17:14<TrueBrain>I am getting medicine for it ;)
17:15<PeterT>duh doy duh duh
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>wow, there's a load of crap being spoken here all day...
17:16<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: lol .. that suprises you .. how?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>no surprise... i just wanted to have explicitly pointed it out, in case people were too afraid to do it :p
17:17<TrueBrain>does it make you feel more alive? :)
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
17:18<Fogel>Yexo: thanks, works
17:18-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.23.153.179] has joined #openttd
17:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: so you have anything fun to share? :)
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>nothing that translates over the internet...
17:21<PeterT>this wasnt in the wiki: if its says "oh joy, you dont have make.exe. keep it that way" is this a joke or something?
17:21<PeterT>or do i need to get make.exe and re-install
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>what's so difficult to understand in "keep it that way"?
17:22<Yexo>PeterT: at which step do you get that message?
17:22<TrueBrain>PeterT: one golden tip, and I don't mean this in any bad way: if you want to develop for OpenTTD, dare to try things. See how far you can go. You can always reinstall at any later point :)
17:22<PeterT>i got that after inserting the mingw installation path
17:22<Yexo>just continue then
17:22<PeterT>into that command line when you install MSYS
17:22<PeterT>ok
17:23<Yexo>and take TrueBrains advice
17:23<PeterT>TrueBrain: Thanks. i go by the saying "measure twice. cut once"
17:24<PeterT>but i guess....
17:24<TrueBrain>yeah, but in here that translates: oh, that annoying user again ;)
17:24<PeterT>:\
17:24<TrueBrain>(you have to understand there are many people who try this every month .. helping each one of them step by step would not really allow any developer to do any real developing ;))
17:24<PeterT>i understand that
17:25-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has joined #openttd
17:25<Nite_Owl>with computers the truism is: screw it up and then figure out how to fix it
17:25<frosch123>TrueBrain: what are you currently developing? :p
17:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: I was nothing talking about myself ;) I was talking about ... others .... :)
17:25<PeterT>unfortunately, ive done that. i got a virus and it screwed my comp and it took 3 weeks to fix
17:25<TrueBrain>hmm .. doh .. wrong answer .. the correct one was: WT3!!!
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it was "is it running? don't touch the damn thing!"
17:26<planetmaker>hahah @ TrueBrain :)
17:26-!-Hirundo_ [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]]
17:26<TrueBrain>PeterT: install a anti-virus ;)
17:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16272 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
17:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
17:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Check slopes passed to the API better for validity (r16264, r16262)
17:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Interpret setting bridge property 08 to 0 as always available (r16263)
17:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIController::GetVersion, this returns the version of OpenTTD in the same way as for NewGRFs (r16253)
17:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIAirport::GetPrice, returning the building cost of an airport (r16252)
17:27<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Enable parameter checking for AIController::* functions again (r16249)
17:27<PeterT>OH. IF ONLY I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT. :P
17:27<TrueBrain>ghehe @ PeterT :)
17:27<PeterT>i had 3
17:27<PeterT>actually 4
17:27<PeterT>mcafee, avg, spysweeper, and spyzooka
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>you do realize that they only block each other?
17:28<PeterT>not at one time,
17:28<PeterT>i usually just use spysweeper
17:28<Nite_Owl>is that not just for spyware
17:29<PeterT>no not just
17:29<frosch123>hmm, if you check 3 pointers for not being NULL, the fourth is NULL
17:29<Nite_Owl>antivirus as well ?
17:29<TrueBrain>hmm .. who has a way in the Apple cooperation? I want a OSX Server donated :p
17:30<PeterT>ok, im on "compiling wget" step
17:31<PeterT>what is "mingwPORT"?
17:31<planetmaker>TrueBrain: I want that, too :)
17:31-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit]
17:32<Yexo>PeterT: those tools where originally coded for some unix flavour, and ported to mingw
17:32<PeterT>ok
17:32<PeterT>still following steps
17:32<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I tried emailing apple .. never got a reply ...
17:32<TrueBrain>only after 2 months that they forwarded it to an other department
17:32<TrueBrain>DEEP silence ...
17:33<Nite_Owl>get pictures of Apple executives in bed with male midgets
17:33<planetmaker>hm... too sad they not even can be arsed to reply...
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16273 /branches/0.7/src/ (25 files in 7 dirs):
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Wrong number of parameters or wrong parameter types sent to printf-like functions at several places (r16269)
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] When callback 2E returns an amount of 0, do not transport 1 unit to the station (r16268)
17:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Various documentation omissions with respect to IDs of various objects and corners for AITile::(Raise|Lower)Tile (r16267,r16266)
17:34<Nite_Owl>chloroform is the key
17:35*planetmaker smells a 0.7.1 in the pipe
17:35<Nite_Owl>of course if they were married Apple executives then so much the better
17:35<PeterT>when it says "Make sure you are in the same directory where you placed the file" does that mean the exe is the same directory?
17:36<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it is always in the pipe :p
17:36<planetmaker>TrueBrain: is a 0.1.3 also still in the pipe? ;)
17:36<TrueBrain>I meant the next version
17:36<TrueBrain>you twat
17:36<planetmaker>:D
17:37<planetmaker>pah. twat is not a nice word :(
17:41<PeterT>yexo. you here?
17:41<Yexo>yes, I am
17:41<PeterT>im getting an error
17:41<Yexo>which one?
17:42<PeterT>i placed the wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2 into "home" started msys, and entered the first line of command, and it says "cannot open, no such file of directory"
17:42<Yexo>type "pwd" and copy the result here
17:43<PeterT>/home/Peter
17:43<Yexo>when you type "ls", do you see the tar file?
17:44<PeterT>no
17:44<PeterT>i placed it into the "home" directory, along with a folder named "Peter"
17:44<Yexo>ah, in unix terms, you home directory is "/home/Peter"
17:45<Yexo>so you need to place the tar *in* the Peter dir, not next to it
17:45<PeterT>oh
17:45<PeterT>inside this "Peter" folder
17:45<PeterT>?
17:45<Yexo>yes
17:46<PeterT>i put it in, entered the same command, and it says the same thing
17:46<Yexo>does "ls" show the tar file now?
17:46<TrueBrain>planetmaker: sorry, I take that word back :)
17:46<PeterT>yes
17:46-!-Booth [~chatzilla@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:47<PeterT>but the name is "wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2.bz2"
17:47<planetmaker>:) /me hugs TrueBrain
17:47<+glx>too many .bz2 in the file name
17:47<PeterT>renamed it and it works
17:47<PeterT>ok
17:47<PeterT>thanks for bearing with me
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: that happens to windows people who don't enable showing of file extensions
17:48<TrueBrain>I hate that option
17:48-!-Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>it's the same kind of people who click on "spam.png.exe" files
17:48<+glx>or loveletter.txt.vbs
17:49<Nite_Owl>So who caught the first case of the sexually transmitted disease 'Space Crabs' Capt. Jonathan Archer or Capt. James T. Kirk?
17:49<PeterT>i do i enable the showing of extentions on vista?
17:49<TrueBrain>in the options :)
17:49<PeterT>ok
17:49<TrueBrain>Under: Hide known extensions
17:49<TrueBrain>who would have guessed ;)
17:49<TrueBrain>come on PeterT, a bit self-thinking is allowed :)
17:50<PeterT>and of course its not there.... :)
17:51<TrueBrain>in any explorer window, alt -> extra -> options, the tab with MANY squares in it ... and under Hide Known Extensions, with a bit more talk around those words
17:52<Yexo>http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q24/michael4446/vista_mapopties.jpg <- that window, dunno how it's called in english
17:52<TrueBrain>(depending on your windows 'extra' can be 'tools' and 'options' can be 'folder options'
17:52<TrueBrain>and that all without having a windows system in front of me :p
17:52<TrueBrain>"Hide extensions for known file types"
17:52<Nite_Owl>not a Star Trek crowd
17:52<TrueBrain>is the english variant
17:52<TrueBrain>Nite_Owl: no, jus tnot interested :p
17:53<Nite_Owl>it was a rhetorical question anyway - humor fail
17:53<TrueBrain>;)
17:54<PeterT>what language do you speak yexo, so i can translate?
17:54<Yexo>TrueBrain already translated it for you :)
17:54<Yexo>but if you still want to know, it's Dutch
17:54<TrueBrain>PeterT: open up http://www.google.com , and search for: show file extensions windows
17:54<TrueBrain>hit the big SEARCH button
17:54<PeterT>ok got it
17:54<PeterT>not the google thing
17:55<PeterT>i mean i found it
17:55<Nite_Owl>what version of Windows
17:55<PeterT>vista
17:55<PeterT>maybe thats where you guys forgot
17:55<PeterT>it wasnt where you said it was
17:55<PeterT>"organize" ----> "folder options"
17:55<TrueBrain>'organize'?!
17:55<TrueBrain>what language do you use?
17:55<Nite_Owl>they moved a lot of stuff around in Vista
17:55<PeterT>vista
17:56<TrueBrain>language
17:56<TrueBrain>vista is not a language
17:56<PeterT>english!
17:56<PeterT>vista is my os
17:56-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
17:56<PeterT>and vista has it different
17:56<TrueBrain>but okay, here again the phrase holds: try stuff yourself! :)
17:56<TrueBrain>be inventive!
17:56<TrueBrain>else compiling OpenTTD will be very useless anyway ;)
17:57<PeterT>god i hope this doesnt take all night :(
17:57<TrueBrain>on your speed? I am afraid so my friend :)
17:57<TrueBrain>an advanced user even needs a good hour :)
17:57<PeterT>duhhh doy duhhh duhh wut?
17:59<Xaroth>compiling stuff takes time
17:59<TrueBrain>compiling stuff to compile even longer ;)
17:59<Xaroth>if every idiot could do it the internet would be filled with viruse... er... nevermind
17:59<PeterT>so when i compile WITH the patch, can i join servers?
17:59<Xaroth>every idiot -can- do it, it just takes time
17:59<Yexo>PeterT: only servers that are compiled with the same patch
17:59<Xaroth>PeterT: depends on what you patch, most likely, no.
18:00<PeterT>damn it
18:00-!-insulfrog [~trainslov@92.23.153.179] has quit [Quit: hi]
18:00<PeterT>whatever, i guess i'll be playing by myself
18:00<Xaroth>... ew
18:00<TrueBrain>Xaroth: script kiddies :)
18:01<Xaroth>TrueBrain: still mindless idiots :P
18:01<TrueBrain>yup
18:01<TrueBrain>and in our country, they get jobs when caught breaking in!
18:01<Xaroth>they do?
18:01<TrueBrain>a few years back
18:01<TrueBrain>a script kiddy broke into some gov server thingy
18:01<TrueBrain>got arrested
18:01<Xaroth>damn i should have continued doing that :/
18:01<TrueBrain>got a job there as 'advisor'
18:01<PeterT>Xaroth: BY myself, not WITH myself
18:02<TrueBrain>like he knew ANYTHING about it ... he just downloaded something from the web and used it
18:02<Xaroth>TrueBrain: most likely :P
18:02<TrueBrain>no, I know for sure
18:03<PeterT>where are you guys from?
18:03<Xaroth>ah fucknuts, gotta trip to evo tomorrow again, grr
18:03<TrueBrain>Xaroth: what broke this time? :)
18:03<Xaroth>nothing
18:03<Xaroth>monthly backup
18:03<TrueBrain>why you need to go there for that?!
18:04<Xaroth>because the client wants the backups to be stored at securitas
18:04<TrueBrain>not enough bandwidth to stream everything? :)
18:04<Xaroth>... >1tb.. per month?
18:04-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:04<TrueBrain>I mean, stream the backup remotely? :)
18:05<Xaroth>vs a monthly 'trip' to do maintenance
18:05<TrueBrain>for a lot of clients I do just that: stream it remotely, and put it on what ever they want from here :)
18:05<PeterT>"error no such file or directory"
18:05<PeterT>again...
18:05<TrueBrain>but they have fiber, flatfree ;)
18:05<PeterT>its in the Peter folder
18:05<PeterT>with the proper name
18:06<TrueBrain>Xaroth: but I guess it is nice to take a trip every month :)
18:06<Xaroth>it's not
18:06<PeterT>pwd: /home/Peter/zlib-1.2.3/mingwPORT
18:06<TrueBrain>I would enjoy it :)
18:06<Xaroth>because it'a always me, because i'm the only sysadmin who actually has clearance for all that stuff :P
18:07<Xaroth>i'd rather sit behind my desk, 'working'.
18:07*Sacro werbles
18:07<Yexo>PeterT: go to the correc tdirectory first (cd ../..)
18:07<TrueBrain>so enjoy it! You are out for N hours, get paid for it
18:07<Xaroth>true
18:08<PeterT>Yexo: working now.... thanks
18:08<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I would take that job any day :)
18:08<TrueBrain>I don't get paid for trips to and from the DC :(
18:08<PeterT>Yexo: these commands seem simalar to openttd console commands
18:08<Xaroth>heh
18:08<PeterT>Yexo: i use the console non stop when playing
18:09<Yexo>guess where the inspiration for the openttd console commands came from :)
18:09<PeterT>lol
18:10<PeterT>Yexo: whats the time frame of 0.8.0 beta clients?
18:11<TrueBrain>oeh, the famous: when-it-is-done!
18:11<TrueBrain>I love saying that :)
18:11<PeterT>oh im sorry for asking a question
18:11<PeterT>oh never mind
18:11<Ammler>15.2.09
18:11*Sacro compiles 0.8.0alpha
18:11<PeterT>when i enter "mkdir ~/ottdsrc
18:11<PeterT>cd ~/ottdsrc
18:11<PeterT>svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk" what "cd" should i be in?
18:11<TrueBrain>PeterT: a question which never works in any open source community: when will this be done?! :)
18:12<Yexo>cd is short for "change directory"
18:12<PeterT>ok
18:12<Yexo>pwd is short of "path working direcotyr", which shows your current directory
18:12<Ammler>how is that called in win?
18:12<Yexo>cd without any further paramters will go to your home directory
18:12<Ammler>thought, it is cd, too
18:13<PeterT>what should my pwd be?
18:13<Yexo>~ will expand to your home dir, so ~/ottdsrc is short for "/home/Peter/ottdsrc"
18:13<Sacro>Yexo: not always
18:13<TrueBrain>Sacro: don't confuse more than needed
18:13<Sacro>depends on where your homedir is
18:13<Yexo>Sacro: don't make it more difficult then it is
18:13<Sacro>:)
18:13<PeterT>i just entered "cd /home/Peter"
18:14<Yexo>that's fine
18:14<Yexo>it's the same as "cd" and "cd ~"
18:14<PeterT>now i can get the source code?
18:14<Yexo>yep
18:14<Yexo>just follow the instructions again :)
18:15<PeterT>got it
18:15<Ammler>there should be a wikipage about which explains step by step
18:15<PeterT>its already fetching stuff....
18:15<PeterT>yes im on it
18:15<PeterT>wikipage/compiling_on_mingw
18:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16274 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp town.h): -Fix: Disable multitile houses for which the newgrf does not define proper additional tiles. (instead of crashing later)
18:17<PeterT>ok, its done getting source code
18:17<PeterT>now on to compiling
18:18<Ammler>please expand the wiki page with the things you needed to ask.
18:18<PeterT>if the wiki page was easy to edit
18:18<TrueBrain>click Edit
18:18<PeterT>there are many codes i dont know what to do with
18:19<PeterT>and i dont want to vandelize the page
18:19<TrueBrain>codes .. plain text?
18:19<Ammler>you can preview the edit
18:19<Yexo>just edit the text, and if you really mess up we'll revert it (and as Ammler says, you can review what you did)
18:19<Ammler>just try and check before you submit the result
18:19<TrueBrain>Yexo: preview ;)
18:19<Yexo>yeah, I noticed that a bit too late :)
18:20<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
18:20<PeterT>ok
18:20<PeterT>i will in a sec
18:20<PeterT>after mingw is done
18:21<TrueBrain>"/How.I.Met.Your.Mother.S04E03.720p.HDTV.X264-DIMENSION/how.i.met.your.mother.403.720p-dimension.rar is not RAR archive" :( :(
18:22<Sacro>aww :p
18:22<FauxFaux>Pirate!
18:22<Sacro>good series that
18:22<PeterT>:P
18:22<TrueBrain>I have my eye-patch!
18:22<Ammler>rar sucks anyway.
18:22<Ammler>no "preview"
18:22<PeterT>i hate how i met your mother
18:22<TrueBrain>what is that for a useless comment?!
18:23<PeterT>how long does compiling take?
18:23<TrueBrain>PeterT: 7 minutes and 12 seconds
18:23<Ammler>2.534 min
18:23-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:23<Ammler>oh :-)
18:23<TrueBrain>(it is just asking for random useless replies :p)
18:24<Xaroth>bah this download is taking forever
18:25<TrueBrain>Xaroth: what are you downloading?
18:25<Xaroth>3000 leechers, 72 seeders, and a whopping 2kbps
18:25<Xaroth>new star trek
18:25<TrueBrain>use usenet
18:25<Xaroth>that free? :P
18:25<TrueBrain>the TS?
18:26<TrueBrain>the DEViSE, BDK or STG?
18:26<Xaroth>nm.
18:26*Xaroth goes find stuff to install
18:26<TrueBrain>well, if you have IPv6 I can help you out ;)
18:26<Xaroth>ipv4
18:27<TrueBrain>then I can only upload :)
18:27<TrueBrain>stupid firewall :(
18:27-!-torahteen [~Jordan@12-175-226-221.dsl-cust.gwtc.net] has joined #openttd
18:27<PeterT>i use http://www.watch-movies-links.net/
18:27<Xaroth>ugh, need to find me a non-crap-ware usenet client
18:27<torahteen>Hey guys... any way to make trains wait longer at signals before reversing direction?
18:28<PeterT>theres a console command....
18:28<PeterT>signal_wait_time <value>
18:28<PeterT>i think
18:28<PeterT>try that
18:28<PeterT>wait, what kind?
18:28<PeterT>pbs?
18:30<torahteen>Normal block
18:30<torahteen>like, I have a waiting "passing loop"
18:30<PeterT>ok
18:30<PeterT>did it work?
18:30<torahteen>and occasionally, one train just waits a tad too long and decides to reverse
18:30<torahteen>well, I'll let you know
18:31<PeterT>ok
18:31<PeterT>Yexo: Done compilin without patch!
18:31<PeterT>Yexo: what now?
18:32<Yexo>congratz PeterT
18:32<PeterT>thanks
18:32<Yexo>now you download the patch you want and put it in the directory with the source
18:32<PeterT>thats it?
18:32<Yexo>no, that's the first step
18:33<PeterT>ok its there
18:33<torahteen>signal_wait_time?
18:33<Yexo>just for reference, which patch are you trying to compile?
18:33<PeterT>close_aiports
18:33<torahteen>getting an error
18:33<Yexo>ok, now find out what revision the patch is for
18:33<PeterT>torahteen: i wasnt sure..... http://wiki.openttd.org/Console
18:33<Yexo>most patch writer put that in the filename
18:34<PeterT>its for 0.7.0
18:34<torahteen>I did list_vars and only have two
18:34<Yexo>PeterT: then you need the 0.7 sources instead of the trunk sources
18:34<Yexo>cd ~/ottdsrc
18:34<torahteen>developer and pw_company or something similar
18:34<PeterT>torahteen: try list_patches
18:34<planetmaker>there's a trunk version of it, too, I think
18:34<PeterT>Yexo: how do i get 0.7 source
18:35<PeterT>same as before except change some coding?
18:35<Yexo>svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.7/ 0.7
18:35<PeterT>ok
18:35-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:35<Yexo>that instead of "svn checkout .../trunk/"
18:35-!-Milloflex [ABC123@h-85-185.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit []
18:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16275 /branches/0.7/src/lang/ (31 files): [0.7] -Backport a lot of language updates from trunk.
18:36<PeterT>ok
18:38<Ammler>torahteen: we disable wait times completly, why do you need the trains to reverse?
18:38<Yexo>torahteen: do list_settings
18:39<PeterT>Yexo: svn: URL 'svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.7/0.7' doesnt exist
18:39<Ammler>space
18:39<TrueBrain>... still no improvement :)
18:40<Ammler>but if you call the folder like the branch, you don't need it.
18:40<Ammler>(the 2nd 0.7)
18:40<PeterT>ok whats the code?
18:41<Yexo>read the above lines very carefully
18:41<Ammler>or better c&p it ;-)
18:41<PeterT>cant c&p into mingw.... :(
18:41<PeterT>says the same thing again
18:42<Yexo>then reread again, and reread "<Ammler> space "
18:42<Yexo>and you can paste by pressing shift+insert
18:42<Yexo>or pressing your middle mouse button
18:43<PeterT>Ammler: space where?
18:43<Ammler>where would you?
18:43<TrueBrain>space man
18:43<TrueBrain>he, I know a good joke about space craps! .... :p
18:43<Yexo>PeterT: compare the url from the error you get with the url I gave you
18:43<PeterT>ok c&p, now it works
18:44<PeterT>tell ya when its done.....
18:44<PeterT>you cant beleive how much i appreciate this.
18:45<PeterT>ok its done
18:45<Ammler>which patch do you apply?
18:45<PeterT>but it said "checked out revision 16275"
18:45<Yexo>that's ok
18:45<PeterT>Ammler: close airports patch
18:45<PeterT>Yexo: ok good, got worried
18:45<PeterT>its done downloading
18:45<Ammler>well, that patch won't work on 0.7 servers
18:46<PeterT>ok
18:46<Ammler>so you could as easy use trunk
18:46<PeterT>well ill play by myself
18:46<PeterT>Ammler: patch is made for 0.7
18:46<Ammler>he :-o
18:47<PeterT>Yexo: im gonna run the same coding as compiling before
18:47<Ammler>at least the pacher should know that ;-)
18:47<Ammler>t
18:47<PeterT>Yexo: will that work?
18:47<Yexo>PeterT: just try...
18:47<Ammler>or is that a close patch, which just skppes the orders?
18:47<Ammler>that might work with 0.7
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18:48<PeterT>ok i need to go for a while
18:48<PeterT>how long are ya gonna be here?
18:49<Ammler>dutch devs are here all the time.
18:49<PeterT>ok
18:49<PeterT>g2g
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19:15<PeterT> back
19:15<PeterT>nobody said anything while i was gone?
19:16-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:16<PeterT>Yexo?
19:16<PeterT>i just finished the "make" command
19:16<Yexo>good
19:16<PeterT>what do i do now?
19:16<Yexo>play the game :)
19:17<Yexo>it's in the bin/ dir
19:17<PeterT>with the patch in the source dir?
19:17<Yexo>did you apply the patch?
19:17<PeterT>how?
19:17<Yexo>patch -p0 < patchfile.diff
19:17<PeterT>.diff?
19:17<PeterT>i have .patch?
19:17<Yexo>that's ok
19:17<Yexo>that doesn't matter
19:18<PeterT>ok
19:18<Yexo>after you've done that, do "make" again
19:18<PeterT>and replace "patchfile" with the name?
19:19<Yexo>...
19:19<Yexo>did you try?
19:19<PeterT>yes
19:19<Yexo>well?
19:19<PeterT>no such file or directory
19:19<Yexo>does "ls" show the file?
19:20<Yexo>if no, then you haven't put it in the correct directory, or you are not in the correct directory
19:20<PeterT>it does
19:21<PeterT>airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch
19:21<PeterT>"makefile"
19:21<PeterT>oh wait forget this /\
19:21<Yexo>and you did type "patch -p0 < airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch"?
19:21<PeterT>forget the "make file"
19:22<PeterT>ok
19:22<PeterT>now
19:22<PeterT>can't find file to patch at input line 5
19:22*Chruker checks the beach to see if there is a life guard on duty
19:22<Yexo>please copy paste what I said you to type
19:22<PeterT>i did
19:22<PeterT>it asks for "file to patch"
19:23<Yexo>can you type "head airport...." and copy the output to paste.openttd.org? (replace airport... by the filename)
19:24<PeterT>"head airport" as a command?
19:24<Yexo>no, "head airport-close-v6-0.7.0.patch"
19:24<PeterT>no such file or directory
19:25<Yexo>you should know my reply to that by now
19:25<PeterT>ok
19:25<PeterT>hold on one sec
19:25<PeterT>not in "ls"
19:25<PeterT>im in the wrong directory
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19:26<PeterT>how do i copy this from the mingw console to paste.openttd.org?
19:27<PeterT>ok its in paste.openttd.org
19:27<PeterT>http://paste.openttd.org/182757
19:27<Yexo>use "-p1" instead of "-p0"
19:28<PeterT>ok
19:28<oskari89>Damn that ZyXel firewall/router..
19:28<Yexo>you can see "diff --git" in the patch, for git and hg patches you need to use -p1
19:28<oskari89>I cannot use FTP :/
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19:29<PeterT>i'll copy and paste what happened into paste.openttd.org
19:30<PeterT>http://paste.openttd.org/182758
19:30<Xaroth>that means it was patching :o
19:30<PeterT>great :D
19:30<PeterT>now "make"?
19:30<Yexo>yes
19:30<Xaroth>yep
19:30<PeterT>got it
19:31<PeterT>thanks
19:31<PeterT>after this, play?
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19:33<Xaroth>yep
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19:33<PeterT>what i dont understand is, why does "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" patch it
19:34<Xaroth>because you tell it to?
19:34<Xaroth>-p0 tells it to patch the files using a specific format
19:34<Xaroth>-p1 is a different format
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19:35<PeterT>oh, so -p0 is .diff?
19:35<PeterT>and -p1 is .patch?
19:36<PeterT>ok its done
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>no, -p0/1 does have absolutely nothing to do with .patch/.diff
19:38<PeterT>YES IT WORKS!!!! :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:38<Xaroth>as eddi said
19:38<Xaroth>it doesn't have to do with the file extension
19:39<Xaroth>it has to do with the file content
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>(/kick PeterT Satzzeichen sind keine Rudeltiere)
19:39<Xaroth>o_O
19:39<PeterT>what?
19:39-!-jpm_ [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:39<PeterT>kick PeterT?
19:39-!-jpm [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd
19:40<Yexo>don't worry, Eddi|zuHause can't kick you from here :)
19:40<PeterT>ok
19:40<PeterT>Yexo
19:40<Sacro>PeterT: it doesn't
19:40*Yexo is waiting from an "but I can" kick from someone :p
19:40<Sacro>you need to do -i InputFile
19:40-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1CE93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:40<Sacro>or < InputFile
19:40<PeterT>input file, for what?
19:40<Sacro>otherwise it'll just hang waiting for input
19:40<Sacro>00:33 < PeterT> what i dont understand is, why does "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" patch it
19:40-!-mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by DorpsGek
19:40<@Yexo>Sacro: don't confuse him more then you have to
19:41<Sacro>Yexo: i'm not trying to confuse him
19:41<PeterT>what is inputfile for?
19:41<@SmatZ>now you can :-p
19:41<Sacro>he'll be more confused if you don't point out that that line won't patch it
19:41<Sacro>I know I was the first time it sat and did nothing
19:41<@Yexo>SmatZ: I could do it with DorpsGek without that :)
19:41<@SmatZ>ahh ok :)
19:41-!-mode/#openttd [-o Yexo] by DorpsGek
19:41<PeterT>so, what is inputfile for?!
19:42<Yexo>you don't ahve to be op for @kick to work :)
19:42<Sacro>PeterT: telling it which patch file to use
19:42<Sacro>so you want -i patchfile.diff
19:42<Sacro>so your full command is 'patch -p0 -i patchfile.diff'
19:42<PeterT>ill just stick to "patch -p0 patchfile.diff
19:42<Yexo>PeterT: what Sacro is telling you is that "patch -p1 -i patchfile.diff" is the same as "patch -p1 < patchfile.diff"
19:43<Yexo>PeterT: you need to use either "<" or "-i"
19:43<PeterT>Yexo: but the added -i is for?
19:43<Sacro>PeterT: that won't work, hence the point of my comment
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>for it working at all
19:43<PeterT>Yexo: why not just "patch -p0 patch.diff"
19:43<Yexo>execute "patch -h" and you'll know
19:43<Sacro>you need to tell it the patch file you want it to use
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: because that uses patch.diff as output file, not as input file
19:44<Yexo>it comes down to this: patch (the program) needs to know that patchfile.diff is a filename, and not another argument
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>but you don't want to modify the patch file
19:45<PeterT>ok, it worked before with "patch -p0 patchfile.diff" can i just use that?
19:45<Sacro>errm
19:45<Yexo>no, and it didn't work before with that
19:45<Yexo>it worked with "patch -p0 < patchfile.diff"
19:45<Sacro>i'd personally file a bug
19:45<PeterT>i mean "patch -p1 patchfile.patch"
19:45<Sacro>because it shouldn't work like that :\
19:46<Yexo>but if it really works, sure, use it
19:46<PeterT>ok
19:46<PeterT>i get it
19:46<PeterT>it should be
19:46<PeterT>"patch -p0 -i file.diff"
19:46<Sacro>Yes
19:46<Yexo>yes
19:46<PeterT>im looking at the forums
19:46<Sacro>-i tells patch that you're specifying input from a file
19:47<PeterT>or as darkvater says: "i usually use patch -p0 < file.diff"
19:47<Sacro>i think that syntax may file with huge diff files
19:47<Sacro>am I right in thinking that'll buffer the whole file into RAM first?
19:47<PeterT>i find the applying patch/diff files sortof confusing
19:47<PeterT>it doesnt tell you that you need to compile first
19:48<Sacro>because you don't
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19:48<Sacro>extract, patch, configure, make, execute
19:48<PeterT>so i just apply the patch to my previously installed 0.7.0 with tortoise svn?
19:49<PeterT>ok, well i get it, dont confuse me
19:49<PeterT>Yexo: do you think there will be a multiplayer server name search?
19:49<Sacro>no, you can only apply a patch to the source
19:49<PeterT>ok
19:50<Yexo>PeterT: now you have it working without tortoisesvn, please don't start to use it
19:50<PeterT>ok
19:50<PeterT>i sorta enjoy entering these codes
19:51<Yexo> do you think there will be a multiplayer server name search? <- not in 0.7, in trunk maybe
19:51<Yexo>dunno
19:51<Yexo>if someone codes it, maybe
19:51<PeterT>can i code it (<-------total noob)
19:51<PeterT>is it hard to code?
19:51<Yexo>if you never programmed anything before, yes
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>if you code it, he will come
19:51<Yexo>otherwise it's not very hard
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19:52<Yexo>but I'm not going to help you code it
19:53<PeterT>ok, dont, ill search on the internet
19:53<PeterT>do you need to know C++?
19:53<Yexo>yes
19:53<PeterT>ok
19:53<Sacro>I'd say so
19:53<PeterT>is it easy to learn?
19:53<Sacro>random chance could prevail though...
19:53<Sacro>PeterT: depnds what you compare it to :)
19:54<PeterT>is it like "here is 2 commands, now you know C++" or "study this for hours and program a sodoku game"
19:54<Sacro>latter
19:56<Chruker>you may want to replace hours with something indicating a longer time frame
19:56<Yexo>it's more like study it for months
19:56<Chruker>:-)
19:57<PeterT>oh darn
19:57<PeterT>well, im on my way...
19:57<PeterT>when did you start Yexo?
19:57<Yexo>programming? 7 years ago
19:58<PeterT>ok
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>i started when i was 12
19:59<PeterT>check this: http://wiki.openttd.org/BuildOTTD
19:59<PeterT>i edited it
19:59<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: same here, for me that's 7 years ago :)
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>that was before TT
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>well for me that was more like 15 years ago :p
20:00*Chruker goes crazy trying to figure out these damn slopes
20:01<Yexo>what is your current problem?
20:01<PeterT>http://wiki.openttd.org/BuildOTTD
20:01<PeterT>did you look at that?
20:01<PeterT>i edited it
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>i remember my first program was an address book in DBase
20:01<Yexo>PeterT: it's fine, but don't expect a reply to everything
20:02<PeterT>ok
20:02<Chruker>I'm just trying to make some function which checks the tiles around a reactangle and then returns which hights that should be valid to terraform to
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>where i took an example program from the book, and modified it a little
20:02<Yexo>Chruker: that's indeed very hard
20:03<Yexo>I'm working on a patch that should make that a little easier, but that one is far from ready
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>and i made it print "Loading ..." and wait 3 seconds to pretend it actually doing something in that time :p
20:03<Chruker>lol
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>then i played around with QBasic
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>and in 6th grade we had a programming course that teached pascal
20:05<Chruker>the dos one?
20:05<Sacro>10 PRINT HELLO
20:05<Sacro>20 GOTO 10
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, dos. it could make graphics applications in 320x200 with 256 colours
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>who remembers the gorilla game? :p
20:06<PeterT>how do i make something that i typed into a bulleted list (editing OTTD wiki)?
20:07<Chruker>try starting the lines with *
20:07<PeterT>ok
20:08<PeterT>works great thanks
20:12<de_ghosty>donkey kong?
20:12<de_ghosty>:o
20:12<PeterT>how is this? http://wiki.openttd.org/BuildOTTD
20:12<PeterT>look at last section
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>de_ghosty: no
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>the game called "gorilla" which came as an example program with qbasic
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>two gorillas standing on highrises, and throwing exploding bananas at each other
20:17<Sacro>Bill Gates wrote that
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, that was at a time where microsoft actually was any good
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>dos 5.0
20:20<Sacro>no
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>the most sophisticated operating system they ever produced
20:20<Sacro>Apple and Amiga where loads better
20:21<Sacro>both had multi tasking GUIs
20:21<PeterT>who runs ubuntu?
20:21<Sacro>Mark Shuttleworth
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>nobody runs ubuntu
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's a myth
20:21<Sacro>mythbuntu?
20:23<PeterT>im currently playing on a map thats 8190x4094
20:25<Sacro>8196
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>8192
20:29<Sacro>ah yes
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>but he is not that wrong, because there are two rows of void tiles
20:29<Sacro>that's slightly rounder
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>so (8190,4094) is the highest query-able tile
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>and (1,1) the lowest
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>so that's the number of usable tiles
20:31<PeterT>i am using extra large maps patch by bilbo
20:41<Eddi|zuHause>no, we actually thought that you wrote that by yourself in the last hour since you started learning to code
20:48<PeterT>oh
20:49<PeterT>i havent started
20:49<PeterT>tommorow maybe
20:50<Sacro>#define null void
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>#define begin {
20:51<Sacro>#define end }
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>#define idiot Sacro
20:54<Sacro>#define Amazing idiot
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>#define sleep me->bed()
20:56<PeterT>what?
20:56<PeterT>am i supposed to under stand this? :)
20:58<Sacro>naaah
20:58<Sacro>bed(eddi).
21:05<PeterT>im going to bed
21:05<PeterT>night all
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21:46<PeterT>identify
21:46<PeterT>!identifiy
21:46<PeterT>IDENTIFy
21:46<PeterT>IDENTIFY
21:46<PeterT>jesus, how does this work
21:50<PeterT>!help
21:50<PeterT>help
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---Logclosed Mon May 11 00:00:57 2009