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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-19

---Logopened Tue May 19 00:00:22 2009
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00:24<z-MaTRiX>hey
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04:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16356 /trunk/src/core/mem_func.hpp: -Codechange: use 'size_t' instead of 'uint' as parameter of functions in mem_func.hpp
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04:26<@petern>size_t * size_t ?
04:27<@petern>it's not a size, it's a count :/
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04:58<SmatZ>using size_t gives results in shorter code on amd64 machines, and doesn't matter for ia32 ones
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07:01<arx>hey
07:02<arx>Iv need some help im fan of transport tycoon and i cant play because i dont have sample.cat file
07:02<dih>touch sample.cat
07:03<dih>create an empty file
07:03<dih>or copy the files from your transport tycoon cd-rom
07:03<dih>as the readme states
07:03<dih>or google if you search for that
07:04<arx>so what program i need to do that empty file and after i rename that sample.cat
07:04<dih>hmmmm..... notepad, echo, touch?
07:04<dih>en empty file, you cannot create an emtpy file with word!
07:05<dih>*an
07:05<arx>ok iv got notepad, but is that file must be emty ?
07:05<dih>if you dont have that file, then you either need one from your transport tycoon cd or you can use an empty file
07:05<arx>and where i must locate that
07:05<dih>read the readme.txt please
07:05<dih>there is one
07:06<dih>there really is
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07:06<dih>and it's named readme for a very valid reason
07:06<dih>it wants to be read
07:06<arx>ok i try
07:06<dih>it feels so lonely if nobody reads it
07:06<dih>and if you dont read it, it will stop you from playing openttd :-P
07:06<arx>:D
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07:13<Condac>is it posible to change company to my company when loading a multiplayer game in singelplayer? my company is #3 but the singelplayer use #1 :(
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07:14<Condac>the move command only work in mp :(
07:15<dih>did you search the forums, did you try google or the wiki?
07:16<dih>i know the answer is there
07:16<dih>it's out there, somewhere
07:16<dih>in the wild wild web
07:17<Condac>i looked through the list_cmds ingame
07:17<planetmaker>use the cheat window ctrl+alt+c
07:17<planetmaker>heya dih :)
07:18<arx>hey still nothing
07:18<dih>Condac, list_cmds is not the same as searching the forums, using google, or searching the wiki
07:19<arx>but why they arent upload the game with sample.cat file?
07:19<arx>its easyer for peoples
07:19<planetmaker>arx, the readme would tell you ;)
07:19<Condac>dih: no i know that im not that retarded, but asking questions before googleing is slightly retarded
07:20<planetmaker>the simple answer is: we don't do copyright violations
07:20<arx>Ok
07:20<arx>my english is so bad i cant understand that readme.file too long text and nothing helpful
07:20<dih>Condac, i'd not say you were retarded :-P
07:20<dih>never
07:21<Condac>planetmaker: i have asked a similar question before, why dont openttd comes with an empty sample.cat and opengrfx pre installed?
07:21<dih>opengfx is not part of openttd
07:21<planetmaker>Condac, the next simple answer: OpenGFX is not finished.
07:21<dih>that too
07:21<dih>:-P
07:21<planetmaker>Shipping OpenTTD with OpenGFX would result in bug reports like "I have so many black boxes.."
07:21<Condac>yea its lots of black stuff still
07:22<planetmaker>I actually advocated for shipping OpenTTD with OpenGFX, though
07:22<arx>Ok i dont have no original CD of tycoon :D
07:22<arx>readme.html dont help me
07:22<oskari89>Hmm. With OpenGFX finished, it would be totally free to play and share..
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07:22<planetmaker>otho the current behaviour sorts out quickly the people who bother to look at the readme and those who don't.
07:23<Condac>but some people are just lazy because there is trainsets with 10 times more trains avaible and still there is not an alternative to the original trains
07:24<planetmaker>how do you mean?
07:24<planetmaker>oskari89, with OpenGFX it is already now totally free...
07:24<planetmaker>it's just that you have to install it yourself
07:24<dih>uh - what a bummer :-P
07:25*dih is not user friendly :-D
07:25<planetmaker>well. I still think it'd been great to ship OpenGFX with 0.7.x.
07:25<planetmaker>Indeed, it isn't.
07:25<dih>:-D
07:25<Condac>if i have a blank install with opengfx there is trains with black boxes, and there is less trains in the original game than with for example "north american". why dont ask some guy who have made 1000 trains to just copy wome to the opengfx
07:25<dih>...
07:26<planetmaker>Condac, go right ahead...
07:26<planetmaker>the OpenGFX team is sure happy to see help
07:26<dih>Condac, opengfx is a base graphics set
07:26<dih>not an extension
07:26<Condac>planetmaker: im sory to say i havnt made 1000 trains or even 1, i wish i had
07:26<dih>:-P
07:27<planetmaker>Condac, well. Go and ask people whether you can use their work for the missing pieces of OpenGFX
07:27<dih>not everybody will want to play with the north american train set or with 2cc
07:27<dih>or ukrs
07:27<dih>or whatever comes to mind
07:27<planetmaker>Mind that dih is absolutely right that OpenGFX is only _base_ graphics. E.g. no extensions
07:28<dih>ttd has a certain default set, which is still the same in openttd
07:28<Condac>its hard to explain what i mean, my english is not that good but you didnt understand me right
07:28<dih>that is what is meant with 'base'
07:28<planetmaker>I *think* you mean: "there's plenty of graphics around. Why not use those?"
07:28<planetmaker>correct?
07:28<Condac>yes
07:28<dih>e.g. rivers are possible, however the look like shit if you dont have the rivers.grf
07:29<planetmaker>I say: go ahead and ask people who made those graphics. And include it yourself into OpenGFX
07:29<Chruker>You want a graphic set that comes with the openttd download but which isnt copied from the original
07:29<Condac>some one of those plenty 1000 trains must look similar to the ones in the base set
07:29<dih>ah
07:29<planetmaker>Condac, certainly true :)
07:29<dih>a bunch of those sets are not licensed under the gpl
07:29<planetmaker>dih, but people could be asked to re-license them :)
07:29<Condac>dih: i know that but some are, and some people might just be kind if you ask
07:30<dih>so you'd have a licensing issue, esp. as some authors are very keen on being acknowledged
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07:30<planetmaker>Condac, the usual problem: *someone* has to do that.
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07:30<dih>planetmaker, you know how some authors respond better than anybody else :-P
07:30<Condac>planetmaker: i have no skillz in grf yet but if there is a grf for dummys that cant read i be willing to help
07:30<planetmaker>hehe. True enough, dih :)
07:31<planetmaker>Condac, I didn't have any until last week either
07:31<Ammler>Condac: opengfx is for dummies, only sprite replacement
07:31<planetmaker>And Ammler's right. Replacement of existing graphics is an easy nfo task
07:31<dih>+ often enough, if you do the drawing of the image, someone else can code it for you and turn it into a grf
07:32<dih>esp on the opengfx team there are enough people who are willing to do that for that project
07:32<Ammler>but a hard taks for the artist ;-)
07:32<planetmaker>dih, I think currently there's something to code, but no coder with time.
07:32<planetmaker>but I might we wrong with that
07:32<Ammler>bmp->pcx
07:33<Condac>how much coding is involved?
07:33<Ammler>I once asked at tt-ms.de for help ;-)
07:33<planetmaker>Condac, a grf is usally 50:50 coding and drawing I think
07:34<planetmaker>with experience in coding probably less coding.
07:34<Chruker>Isnt somebody already heading a openttd base graphic project?
07:34<planetmaker>Chruker, OpenGFX is a base graphics replacement
07:35<Ammler>maybe the 32bpp replacement is finished before ;-)
07:35*planetmaker yesterday changed successfully for the first time the stats of a vehicles in an existing newgrf :)
07:35<Condac>but what coding is needed to replace an already moving black box? isnt it just adding a picture to that black box?
07:36<Ammler>cheater!
07:36<Chruker>meh, I'm confusing it with the NewGFX thingy
07:36<planetmaker>Condac, yes. But that replacing needs to be coded in a way like
07:37<planetmaker>replace image ID<xy> by ~/images/pcx/filename.pcx <xpos> <ypos> <xsize> <ysize> <xoffset> <yoffset>
07:37<planetmaker>and that's the coding needed for base graphics mostly.
07:37<planetmaker>adjusting a sprite such that it is shown in the correct place.
07:38<planetmaker>so basically yes, it's "just" adding an image. But you have to tell which image with what dimensions at what position
07:39<Condac>how many rotations does a train have?
07:39<Condac>is it mirroring automaticly and stuff like that?
07:39<planetmaker>4 or 8
07:40<planetmaker>8, if they're not symmetrical
07:40<planetmaker>if mirroring is possible, you'll certainly need to tell openttd to do that by means of programming the newgrf accordingly
07:41<planetmaker>(I don't know whether it's possible)
07:41<Ammler>you just use the same sprite twiche, maybe :-)
07:41<planetmaker>Ammler, yeah, that's always possible, I guess :)
07:42<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs <-- certainly looks very complicated, if you just read all that
07:42<planetmaker>if you start with a well documented example, things start to get way clearer though.
07:44<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects <-- you find some projects there where all the code and images are freely accessible and licensed under GPL or a CC license.
07:44<planetmaker>the opengfx certainly has a freely accessible repository, too. I just dunno where
07:44*planetmaker exercises monologues :P
07:46*Forked destroys the monologue
07:46<Forked>at least temporary
07:46<planetmaker>oh no! ;)
07:47<planetmaker>I actually can only advise not to be put off by the newgrf wiki I quoted above.
07:47<planetmaker>it's easier than it looks :)
07:48<Condac>but how does 32bpp work? can u use it in openttd directly or do you need some modded nightly?
07:48<planetmaker>works out of box
07:50<Condac>the main toolbar by Joed, Athanasios should be the one in the openGRF 8bpp also, it was much nicer i think
07:50<dih>jack in a :-P
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08:02<Ammler>Condac: the toolbar is the main reason, I wouldn't use opengfx as base grf.
08:03<Condac>it was hard ass hell to describe by speach what button to push when i talked to a friend that just started playing, i thought it looked the same almost but it didnt
08:03<Ammler>terrain and newwater is the best part of it.
08:04<Condac>there is only 2 buttons in the menu that is good, the pause, fast forward
08:05<dih>:-D
08:06<dih>nicely said Condac
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08:38<eekee>holas. I haven't updated my copy of trunk for a while (r15151 is my last) and when I try now I get an error about src/3rdparty/squirrel. Anyone know how to get past that error? I tried --force & --accept theirs-full but got the same error.
08:39<planetmaker>well. That error didn't hurt here.
08:39<eekee>ah ok
08:39<planetmaker>But you get rid of it, if you do a clean checkout in a new directory
08:40<planetmaker>It's the better solution.
08:40<eekee>gotcha
08:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16357 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Codechange: delete invalid depots in TTD savegames caused by improper SVXConverter conversions
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08:54<Ammler>eekee: or just rm src/3rdparty before svn up
08:55<eekee>Ammler: I had visions of the update dying a horribly messy death if I did that :}
08:56<Ammler>hmm, well
08:56<eekee>eh, I shoud have tried it
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09:10<@Belugas>hello
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09:17<@petern>hi hi
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09:21<eekee>holas guys
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09:24<@Belugas>petern, there was some good stuff on yesterday's session :)
09:25<@Belugas>did not had the time to make some extracts, but it wasa a fun one (lucky i had it recorded)
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09:28<Daann>hi can anyone help me with a problem?
09:29<+glx>only if we know what the problem is
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09:31<Daann>its a very specific unloading of trains problem
09:31<KingJ>Well... describe it
09:32<planetmaker>the only way to get specific help is to describe a problem detailed and specifically
09:32<Daann>alright here it goes
09:32<Daann>my trains wont unload in their designated station
09:32<Daann>wich accepts their kind of load
09:33<Daann>they dont go to depots either
09:33<planetmaker>use unload orders
09:33<Daann>ive tried that but it just remains on the station
09:33<planetmaker>and possibly no load orders.
09:33<Daann>the station is only used for unloading
09:34<planetmaker>then the station produces it either itself or doesn't accept the cargo
09:34<+glx>check the origin of fhe cargo in your train
09:34<Daann>it does produce it itself aswell but it has always
09:34<eekee>I always set no loading. I've had too many trains fill up unexpectedly when a station suddenly started to produce or was just not quite far enough from somehting producing
09:34<Daann>and the problems only started recently
09:35<Daann>ill try destroying the producing industry then
09:35<+glx>[15:34:43] <+glx> check the origin of fhe cargo in your train
09:36<Daann>its iron ore to an oven
09:36<eekee>you can destroy industries now?
09:36<Daann>and its alot of trains
09:36*eekee is curious, hasn't played for a while
09:36<+glx>Daann: I mean the name of the source station
09:37<Daann>ive discovered u cant :P
09:37<Daann>ok
09:37<+glx>are you using newgrf industries?
09:37<Daann>no
09:37<Daann>no plugins whatsoever
09:38<Daann>and the origins seem fine
09:39<Daann>brb
09:40<eekee>aw crap, segfaults every time I try to start it. r16354
09:40<+glx>clean or patched?
09:41<eekee>clean
09:42*eekee rebuilds to check one tiny thing
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09:43<eekee>no joy
09:44*eekee tries 32bit
09:44<Daann>ok back
09:44<eekee>wb
09:44<Daann>should i just clear the orders from the load unload parts
09:47<eekee>same segfault in 32-bit
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09:47<Daann>theres steel on that station aswell but ive never had a steel carrying train in that station
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09:49<+glx>eekee: what are you doing exactly?
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09:50<eekee>glx: git-cloned fresh copy of trunk ; cp -a trunk r16354 ; ./configure && make -j 6 ; cd bin ; ./openttd
09:51<eekee>the little thing I tested.. initially I omitted the .git tree to save a little space
09:52<eekee>I have pure 64-bit & pure 32-bit systems & tried compiling in both. One thing I did notice is that it checks for sample cat before whatever's causing the segfault
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09:53<@petern>self compiled? can you not provide a backtrace?
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09:54<eekee>quite possibly. can you walk me through getting it? I've hit my debugging limit lol
09:55<eekee>actually I think I can do it
09:55<+glx>./configure --enable-debug
09:55<eekee>ah
09:55<+glx>cd bin
09:55<+glx>gdb ./openttd
09:55<eekee>no make in betweeen those 2?
09:55<+glx>when it segfault: bt
09:55<+glx>of course make in between :)
09:55<eekee> ok :D
09:56<Daann>ive just moved the station out of the area with the producing industry, didnt help
09:56<Daann>trains still dont unload there
09:57<eekee>Daann: maybe something glitched with the savegame so the recieving industry somehow isn't working anymore
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09:58<Daann>that could be :/
09:59<Daann>thats not fixable is it
09:59<planetmaker>that's something which is honestly several orders less likely than wrong orders and/or still accepted cargo or at least still remaining cargo
10:00<eekee>glx: http://rafb.net/p/S0UXGZ83.html
10:01<Daann>planetmaker i dont understand :P
10:01<eekee>ah sorry
10:02<@petern>r16343 then
10:02<@petern>strdup on null is generally... bad
10:02-!-gule [~User@84-255-245-231.static.t-2.net] has joined #openttd
10:03*glx can reproduce :)
10:03<planetmaker>Daann, if you set your trains to unload and not load at that station, they'll leave it empty. No matter what
10:04<planetmaker>but if the station doesn't accept the cargo, you won't get paid. Therefor it's safer to just set no load orders.
10:04<planetmaker>Cargo will be unloaded automatically, if the station accepts a cargo
10:04<planetmaker>go and read the wiki on how to set orders
10:05<planetmaker>and what the different orders imply / mean
10:05<_ln>http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/ilmarihe/algebra1/day4_set_cardinality.jpg
10:05<Daann>i have no unload orders
10:06<Daann>anywhere in the game
10:06<planetmaker>then the station doesn't accept the cargo...
10:06<planetmaker>why do you then wonder that you don't unload?
10:07<Daann>the walls of the steelmaking oven hit the walls of my station
10:07<Daann>and ive got dozens of trains transporting ore there
10:07<Daann>that wont unload
10:07<Daann>some only get a small amount of money and leave halffull
10:07<Daann>some just stop and keep driving on
10:08<Daann>looks really random
10:08<Daann>can i post a link with a screenshot here?
10:08<Hirundo>are you using an industry newgrf (PBI?) ?
10:09<Daann>no none
10:11<eekee>the sometimes half-full, sometimes full thing sounds exactly like newindustries behaviour. bizzarre
10:12<planetmaker>Daann, you should rather post the savegame.
10:14<Daann>ill upload it
10:16<Daann>http://rapidshare.de/files/47222868/New_Rarnley_Transport__3_Jun_2050.sav.html
10:17<eekee>petern: same thing with r16353
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: nothing in there that i did not know before...
10:18<@Belugas>32 pages
10:18<@Belugas>125 test cases
10:18<@Belugas>and that's only the beginning
10:18*Belugas cries
10:18<eekee>ouch :{
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10:22<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: good, it's apparantly a first year course.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>we had that in 10th grade, i think
10:24<eekee>glx, petern: 32-bit backtrace: http://rafb.net/p/SCOlna11.html
10:25<@petern>?
10:25<@petern>i already said what the problem is
10:25<eekee>I dunno how you got that from the 64 bit bt is all :)
10:26<+glx>we know the code ;)
10:26<eekee>ah :D
10:26<@petern>the code is the same...
10:27<Daann>could u find anything planetmaker
10:34<Hirundo>Trains load ore from a nearby mine at the steel mill station
10:34<Hirundo>That causes them to gradually fill up with ore from that mine, as it is never unloaded anywhere
10:35<Daann>yh i made the station smaller but that didnt make a difference
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10:35<Hirundo>Setting your orders to 'No loading' + 'Unload' should fix things
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10:37<Daann>thta didnt do it either
10:37<Daann>wait
10:38<Daann>it just leaves the ore at the station
10:38<+glx>petern: something like http://devs.openttd.org/~glx/strdup_NULL.diff
10:38<Daann>waiting to be picked up by another train
10:38<Daann>its like the industry dosnt accept but cant figure out why
10:39<@petern>glx, all this complexity just because somebody demanded some free()s...
10:41<eekee>doesn't unload merely dump the load in the station without passing it to nearby industries?
10:41<+glx>eekee: only if not accepted
10:41<eekee>ahh
10:42<Daann>what are the rules for accepting cargo then
10:42<Daann>can u overload an industry?
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10:43<eekee>Daann: have your trians had time to make a round-trip to the station they're supposed to load at?
10:44<Daann>i havnt set any times
10:44<eekee>on the code thing I'm wondering what the free()s are for, considering r15151 ran passably well on my 64MB Sharp Zaurus
10:44<Daann>they are free to go wherever they need to
10:45<eekee>yeah but have they, after unloading, gone back to whee they're supposed to load, loaded, and come back to unload again?
10:46<eekee>that second unload is when they should start making money
10:46<Daann>yeah
10:46<eekee>and they're not?
10:46<Daann>theyre allfilled p with ore now so they dont load either anymore
10:47<Daann>but they do make the whole trip
10:47<eekee>I need a working ottd so I can look at it & compare with you :)
10:48<+glx>eekee: you can use my patch for now :)
10:48<eekee>glx: Ah I didn't realise. ty
10:49<Daann>ok :p
10:49<Daann>still have the link here if u want it
10:50<eekee>got it ty :)
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10:51<Daann>alrite
10:51<eekee>yay it runs!
10:52<Daann>party on!
10:52<Hirundo>Daann: Using unload + no loading, the ore that was previously loaded at that station will pile up there and gradually disappear
10:52<Hirundo>assuming that no further ore is delivered there by some mine
10:52<Daann>shouldnt it all disappear at once?
10:53<Hirundo>Do *you* have magic powers to make tons of iron ore disappear?
10:53<Daann>if u give me enough dynamite :P
10:54<Hirundo>Indeed, but that process takes some time :)
10:54<eekee>make a station to dump it to then when your trains are clear demo the station
10:54<eekee>Daann: whoa mine city!
10:54<Daann>:D
10:54<Daann>wanted to make a huge iron ore transit system
10:55<Daann>but apparantly cant because i need more ovens
10:55<eekee>default ovens (steel mills) should take all the ore you can throw at them
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10:56<Daann>then somethings wrong
10:56<eekee>train 9 is one of the problem trains, right?
10:57<Daann>they all are
10:57<Daann>all of the ore transporting ones
10:57<Daann>the wood ones work perfectly
10:57<Hirundo>your trains are / were loading ore from a nearby iron mine at the steel mill station
10:58<Daann>yh were now
10:58<Daann>for a while
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>Daann: you misunderstand the problem
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>ore cannot be delivered to the same station it came from
10:59<Daann>and that causes all the trains to stop delivering
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>so the ore generated by the nearby mine has nowhere to be unloaded
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>and it will continually clog your system
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>until it suffers a seizure
11:00<Daann>so i have to delete that station and that trains
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>which is what happens to you
11:00<eekee>ok there's a little arrow between "Full load any cargo" and "Unload all". You need to click that & select "No loading" (the bottom one), and click the "Unload all" button too
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>no, you have to make "unload and no loading" orders
11:00<Daann>ok ill do that
11:00<Daann>and see how it goes for a while
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>this will remove the undeliverable ore from your trains
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11:04<Daann>ok ill try it for a while
11:05<Daann>i think its working cos my steel mill produces more
11:05<Daann>but the ore stacks up aswell
11:06<Daann>this shou;d gradually decrease right
11:06<eekee>yeah the ore will pile up partly from the unload orders & partly because the station nnow has a reputation for taking ore, so neaby mines deliver to it
11:07<eekee>it'll decrease slowly, yeah. Might not ever quite vanish
11:08<+glx>delete station and wait for the name sign to disappear
11:08<+glx>then rebuilt
11:08<Daann>the nearb station or the accepting station
11:09<Daann>ok accepint
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11:13<Daann>ha it works
11:13<Daann>ty all for helpin a stubborn person
11:14<eekee>welcome :)
11:17<eekee>sometimes helping someone becomes as big a puzzle as the game :o)
11:17<Daann>yh i slightly understand why it happened
11:18<Daann>but the important thing is that i know how to fi x t
11:21<eekee>yeah
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11:27<@Belugas>fuck...
11:27<@Belugas>i just learned that the simulator loads up the card number on the chip
11:27<@Belugas>and whatever is on the mag stripe is irrelevant
11:28<@Belugas>duh...
11:28<@Belugas>marvelous world it is.. indeed indeed
11:30<Daann>and now its all gone
11:30<Daann>producing 2ktons of steel a month
11:31<ccfreak2k>Which simulator would that be?
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11:41<@Belugas>Chip N Pin simulator test case management
11:42<@Belugas>lovely beast
11:42<@Belugas>kinda
11:42<ccfreak2k>More like Chip N Dale.
11:42<ccfreak2k>Is this definitive proof that magnetic card strips are fake?>
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11:47<yorick>content server communication is not versioned?
11:47<@Belugas>no, only proof that you do not know what i am doing ;)
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11:56<eekee>heh, 256 trains on a 256x256 map
11:58<eekee>old game that one
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12:35<dih>oing
12:35<dih>*hachoo*
12:35<dih>oink
12:35<dih>oink
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>strange... my "old games" never had more than 80 trains...
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12:56<ccfreak2k>Belugas, that works.
13:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r16358 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r16343): strdup doesn't like NULL
13:05<frosch123>Belugas? Isn't he on holidays?
13:05<TinoDidriksen>...you use strdup() ? That's asking for trouble.
13:05<+glx>why?
13:06<+glx>it's ok when done correctly
13:06<TinoDidriksen>The memory allocated is not owned by the caller, which can cause segfaults when trying to free.
13:07<TinoDidriksen>Across library boundaries it's especially bad. Terribly unsafe thing.
13:07<+glx>same happens with malloc
13:08<+glx>if you try to free mem allocated by a dll
13:08<@petern>"owned" ?
13:08<+glx>and as I said <+glx> it's ok when done correctly
13:08<TinoDidriksen>Point is that strdup() you have no option of providing a safe preallocated buffer that you know you own.
13:08<TinoDidriksen>Sure, it can be used safely...just ew.
13:09<@petern>...
13:09<@petern>with strdup... you "own" it
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13:11<TinoDidriksen>The allocation happens in the library, so you don't own it. The one in Linux may be different, or may be inline or whatever, but cross-platform strdup()'s result is now owned.
13:12<TinoDidriksen>*not
13:12<@Belugas>ccfreak2k : what does work??
13:12<@Belugas>frosch123, no yesterday i was :( sadly
13:16<@petern>Belugas, go home
13:17<dih>^^
13:19<@Belugas>and of course, petern, i'll be authorized to do absolutely nothing at all, on the couch ;)
13:19<@Belugas>note that i'm so tempted to indeed go home...
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13:23<@petern>:s
13:23<@petern>btw
13:23<@petern>that key works now
13:24<@Belugas>whouhou!!
13:25<@Belugas>here's someting for you to do: grab the parts you like the most about yesterday's jam :D
13:33<@petern>dmesg
13:33<@petern>um :)
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13:43<yorick>what's the char 0x92 and why is it in my content descriptions
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13:47<Muxy>Hello from Goulp
13:47<frosch123>Goulp make me think of the small dragon of Robert Asprin
13:47-!-th1ngwath [~thingwath@wired-66.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Domu.]
13:48<frosch123>+2*" + s
13:48<Muxy>dont know
13:54<yorick>rather, what's it doing in the #303 North of England scenario
14:00<Hirundo>yorick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252
14:01<yorick>Hirundo: where is it?
14:02<yorick>nvm
14:03*Hirundo hopes yorick picks a deep corner to hide in
14:04*yorick hides beneath Hirundo
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14:18<Chruker>o.O
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14:26<z-MaTRiX>hi
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14:52*Belugas thinks time is not running fast enough
14:53<SpComb>'tis not going to run any faster
14:53<_ln>hit tab
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14:56<z-MaTRiX>Belugas, buy a faster computer;>
14:56-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:55c1:bf34:329e:4059] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56<@Belugas>duh...
14:57<@Belugas>compuer has nothing to do with it
14:57<@Belugas>fucking long script
14:57<@Belugas>too many cases
14:57<@Belugas>too many problems
14:57<z-MaTRiX>well problems are to be solved
14:57<@Belugas>too many minutes o an hour, wish it was laready over and time to go home
14:57<@Belugas>not problems! CERTIFICATION!!! TEST SCRIPTS!!!
14:58<_ln>especially bad for you as you have those 65 american minutes per hour.
15:06<ccfreak2k>Imperial and metric time.
15:06<ccfreak2k>Did you know that the UK only has 6.4 days per week?
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15:24<_ln>i didn't
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15:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16359 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't abuse company 0 when determining 'cost to clear land' in the LandInfoWindow
15:27<yorick>:):):)
15:30<@Belugas>abuse her
15:30<@Belugas>seduce her
15:30<@Belugas>reduce her
15:30<@Belugas>refuse her
15:31<@petern>ninjam her
15:31<@Belugas>:D
15:31<@Belugas>on ninjam servers?
15:32*yorick can now request the content list from python :)
15:35<@petern>great
15:35<@petern>that is just what i needed
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15:42<dih>yorick, and why would that be so hard?
15:42<yorick>did I say it would be?
15:42<dih>then you do you still think people want to know :-P
15:46<yorick>is it me or does ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::RequestContentList(uint count, const ContentID *content_ids) send identical packets when it needs more than one
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15:51<Hirundo>it is you
15:51<yorick>for (uint i = 0; i < p_count; i++) { <-- it starts at 0 again every time
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15:52<Hirundo>content_ids += count;<< increments the pointer
15:53<SpComb>actually, it increments it by count, which is somewhat confusing
15:54<SpComb>as opposed to p_count
15:54<Hirundo>I was looking at the same, I think it should indeed increment by p_count
15:54<SpComb>if p_count is the number of sent ContentIDs, and it decrements count by p_count
15:56<SpComb>it seems like it'll just go out of bounds for the content_ids accesses once there's more than one packet needed
15:57<SpComb>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp#L169
16:00<Hirundo>!ticket
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16:01<SpComb>but the code only ever calls that version of RequestContentList once, and that's with a count of one...
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16:21<luckz>uhhhhm
16:21<luckz>question!
16:21-!-SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-53-197.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd
16:21<luckz>if I combine multiple engines
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16:21<@petern>answer?
16:21<luckz>do I only get running costs for one?
16:21<@petern>no
16:21<luckz>but it displays them only for one.
16:21<planetmaker>you get running costs for all.
16:21<luckz>so.. how is that calculated?
16:21<@petern>no
16:21<@petern>you get the total
16:21<planetmaker>depends upon the newgrf
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16:22<planetmaker>@seen Truebrain
16:22<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Truebrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> you catched on on that? :)
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16:23<luckz>planetmaker: well I'm using dbsetxl
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16:26<luckz>so does that mean they are just not displayed or not calculated?
16:26<Xaroth>planetmaker: he's hiding
16:26<planetmaker>hm... you should normally pay for them. Did you check whether you do or don't?
16:27-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:27<luckz>well, how do I test that? should I build a train with six engines and let it drive in a circle for a year to see how much cash it wastes? and what if it still wastes that cash but does not display it?
16:28<luckz>I can't really isolate anything in a system with 200+ vehicles
16:28<@petern>no
16:28<@petern>you look in the Running Cost: field of the train details window...
16:29<luckz>ohh my bad, actually I just fail at basic maths. it display that stuff properly, sorry.
16:30<luckz>now if my MP game just wouldn't disconnect all the time!
16:30-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:30<luckz>but that's not the game's fault.
16:30<planetmaker>:)
16:30<luckz>so uh, are there particular newgrf combinations that are actually reasonably balanced? because combining egrvts and dbsetxl wasn't a very smart idea.
16:30<planetmaker>german road vehicle set might well fit dbxl
16:31<luckz>aviators aircraft have rather high running costs, egrvts have near-zero running costs, dbsetxl trains are ridiculously expensive
16:33<frosch123>dbsetxl engines are also ridiculously powerful :p
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16:33<planetmaker>nah, it's all realistic. You have to play it like that, or you do it wrong :P
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16:35<Ammler>br182 is the best engine of the whole TTD world ;-)
16:38<luckz>but the prices...
16:38<luckz>BR515 costs me 1/10 of what a BR150 or what costs.
16:38<luckz>BR103 even costs over 15x more
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16:49<planetmaker>luckz: do you honestly care about prices?
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16:54<luckz>planetmaker: uhm, sure?
16:54<dih>in ttd?
16:54<dih>be honest, you did not even buy the ttd cdrom
16:54<@Belugas>buwhahahahah!!!!
16:54<dih>:-P
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16:56<z-MaTRiX>hey
16:56<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> nah, it's all realistic. You have to play it like that, or you do it wrong :P <- the set is realistic, the game physics are not
16:56<z-MaTRiX>going to try out playing at real loan interest rate
16:57<@petern>real?
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16:58<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: they aren't? Damn...
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17:02<z-MaTRiX>meaning that percentage they want here in bank
17:03-!-ziond [~sergei@77.51.88.91] has joined #openttd
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: the loan interes is useless, because it just cancels out the inflation
17:04-!-E5|padshance [pad@bl8-184-13.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>you need a way to increase the loan interest separate from the inflation rate
17:05<z-MaTRiX>hmm
17:05<z-MaTRiX>btw why is there inflation?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>because there was a hen and an egg
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>and scientists discussed which one came first
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>and then they demanded more money
17:06<z-MaTRiX>but that's insane
17:07<z-MaTRiX>you can earn millions if you buy a cheezeburger for 5 million
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>5 million is nothing...
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>http://i4.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/24/f9/1db4_1.JPG
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>that's a 10 billion (long) bill
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>meaning 10 million million
17:10<z-MaTRiX>meaningless
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>the official course was capped at 1$ = 4.6 billion (long) mark, i think
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>the black market course rose up to 12, it was said
17:12<z-MaTRiX>i know this was the situation with HUF long time ago
17:12<dih>probably before you were born :-P
17:12<z-MaTRiX>sure
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>http://i9.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/1a/3f/e93a_1.JPG <- 20 billion (long)
17:13<dih>inflation (in that case) merely did s/Mark/Billionen Mark/g
17:13<dih>:-D
17:13<z-MaTRiX>http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/largest39.html
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, there was said to be a hungarian hyperinflation right after WWII, which was said to be initiated by the communists
17:13<dih>Eddi|zuHause, perhaps there is a 50 too
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>dih: the difference was that tommorow you only got half a bread for that bill
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause>http://i.ebayimg.com/08/!BQ73hH!Bmk~$(KGrHgoOKkMEjlLmYg(TBJ7fNUwmsw~~_1.JPG
17:17<z-MaTRiX>so if you want inflation, then why doesn't it interfere with loan interest?
17:18<planetmaker>why should it?
17:18<planetmaker>it's a free market. People or banks surely will adopt, though
17:18<@Belugas>[16:59] <z-MaTRiX> going to try out playing at real loan interest rate <--- /me is rolling on the floor!!! man, you're so freaking funny!!!
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: a bank makes money by collecting more interest than the inflation costs them
17:19-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C793.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19<z-MaTRiX>Belugas, why?
17:20<z-MaTRiX>thought about increasing loan interest rate from default
17:20<z-MaTRiX>nothing more
17:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16360 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: don't use _network_playas as a 'second' _local_company, but only as a storage location for the company you want to join in MP.
17:20<@Belugas>because you are. Because "real" interest does not exists in the game. Because your attempts to get reality in the game is laughable, because i'm tired etc etc
17:20<z-MaTRiX>heheh
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>vamos a la playa?
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>network playa?
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>is that where you start surfing?
17:23<@Belugas>and by the way, in OTTD, the inflation and interest rates are capped at 4 or 5 % (can't remember) due to the way the arithmetics are made for those. Good luck tryinh to balance it out nicely in another way
17:24<E5|padshance>anyone here knows private websites with newgrfs?
17:25<z-MaTRiX>;<
17:25<@Belugas>private websites?
17:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16361 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix: pointer incremented with wrong count
17:27<E5|padshance>Belugas yes
17:27<E5|padshance>like pikkawiki or george.zernebok
17:28<planetmaker>dih: still around?
17:28-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:28<@Belugas>that is not private
17:28<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:28<@Belugas>what are you looking for exaclty?
17:29<E5|padshance>new grfs
17:29<E5|padshance>xD
17:29<planetmaker>E5|padshance: bananas is private :P
17:29<E5|padshance>like trains
17:29<E5|padshance>and airplanes
17:29<dih>planetmaker, yep
17:29<planetmaker>and you know grf crawler?
17:29<dih>what i can do for you?
17:29<dih>yep
17:29<planetmaker>can you compile nforenum on (your) mac?
17:29<E5|padshance>grf crawler?
17:29<dih>no
17:29<E5|padshance>(i have bad english sorry im portuguese)
17:29<planetmaker>I somewhat fail... :(
17:29<Nite_Owl>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/
17:29<dih>my mac broke :-(
17:30*Belugas retreats away and goes home
17:30<planetmaker>oh... :(
17:30*dih cries
17:30<E5|padshance>ohhhhhhh
17:30<E5|padshance>:D
17:30<E5|padshance>thanks
17:30*planetmaker hugs dih
17:30<dih>*sniff*
17:30<E5|padshance>what does grf crwler?
17:30<dih>cannot charge the battery anymore :-P
17:30<E5|padshance>search many grf?
17:30<Nite_Owl>I just happened to have the URL sitting on my clipboard
17:30<planetmaker>well... does it work with a power cable, dih?
17:31<Nite_Owl>go there and see
17:31<planetmaker>E5|padshance: go and look
17:31<E5|padshance>:D
17:31<E5|padshance>okkk
17:31<E5|padshance>ill see
17:31<E5|padshance>xD
17:31<E5|padshance>thanks
17:31<dih>planetmaker, no - else i could charge :-P
17:31<planetmaker>:P
17:31<dih>my brother will try to repair it :-P
17:32<planetmaker>he...
17:32<dih>gravis wants something between 300 and 400 to repair it
17:32<dih>and i aint gonna fork out that money for that
17:32<planetmaker>whoot? That A LOT
17:32<Nite_Owl>just needs a new battery no ?
17:32<Ammler>my akku is broken either, seems virus going around eating akku s?
17:33<planetmaker>yummy. Lithium
17:33<Nite_Owl>only if you are bipolar
17:33<Ammler>well, aber 2 years :-)
17:33<dih>"or when you make breakfast, do you open the fridge, and throw all eggs, cheese, marmelade, salami, margarine, vegetables, milk, juice, barbeque sauce and mustard in a bowl, and then complain that the bowl is not big enough to hold the entire content of your fridge? do you think that'll even taste any good?" <- LOL @ Eddi|zuHause
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: you like men and women?
17:34<Nite_Owl>no polar bears
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>dih: i had a similar one in the german forum just a few days ago
17:34<Nite_Owl>usually in pairs
17:35<dih>ploar bears in pairs?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>polar pairs?
17:35<dih>in bares
17:35<dih>*bears
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>bare bears?
17:35<dih>now that'd look funny
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>i believe polar bears have black skin
17:36<dih>now that's an amazing topic "Why do busses turn around?"
17:36<planetmaker>yeah. And I trap polar bears by doing a coordinate transform to euclidean and then just pick up the square bears...
17:36<dih>square polar bears pairs?
17:37<dih>hihi
17:37<dih>doing a line dance :-P
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i thought that only worked on lions
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17:37<Nite_Owl>lithium is used to treat bipolar disorders - which is what started this digression
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17:38<fjb>I need a diagonal waypoint. :-(
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: try it... but it opens a big can of worms, because people will need two waypoints on the same tile
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>would require a change to the way waypoint ids are calculated
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>which means you might as well just remove waypoints and do diagonal stations instead
17:41<fjb>I only need two of them, not on the same tile. Or something instead to put into the orders.
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>or do the other idea: move waypoints to tile borders, and allow them to be placed on arbitrary rail tiles
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17:42<fjb>That sounds interesting. But is no solution in my actual game.
17:43<Nite_Owl>move the tracks or alter the terrain
17:43<Nite_Owl>or both
17:43<fjb>I don't want do move that Mountain...
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's the only idea that gives a unique advantage of waypoints over go-via-stations
17:44-!-racetrack [~racetrack@c114-76-16-69.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: no. just, no.]
17:44<fjb>How far is the look ahead for nearest depot?
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>16 tiles. i believe
17:46<planetmaker>^^
17:46<fjb>Hm, I would have to add another waypoint then, but that is not the problem. Putting just a tile into the orders would also be fine...
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17:57<fjb>Or I need a landscape copy & paste patch.
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18:03<luckz>is there any known issue with too many vehicles and/or cargo distribution causing clients to freeze during connection attempts?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>we do not support custom builds
18:10<fjb>Hm, gosub and return would be a nice extension to the orders.
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18:21<fjb>Problem is when an order "jumps" out of the subroutine and never uses return.
18:22<fjb>Or recursive orders...
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18:23<Eddi|zuHause>endless-looping orders are invalid even now, but with recursion it will be impossible to check
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>early fortran versions limited the size of the call-stack, so you could only recurse up to depth 7 or so
18:24<fjb>Some Basic interpreters did that too.
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18:27<fjb>Hm, no gosub, but a function. Oders outside that function are not jumpable.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>you need a distinction between goto and gosub to decide if you need to push the return address on the stack
18:29<fjb>That is the easy part. Just make two kinds of jump oders.
18:30<fjb>The hard part is to enforce pulling the return address from the stack.
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>that's why they call that "return"
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18:31<Eddi|zuHause>goto-targets outside the current function are forbidden in any sane language
18:31<fjb>But if the user doesn't use a return oder but jumps somewhere else?
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>the jump target can be checked on compile time
18:32<fjb>Do the orders get compiles?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>there are checking mechanisms in place, but i don't know what they do
18:37<fjb>order_cmd.cpp: I love C++, you can freely mix multiple classes in one file.
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>why would that be special?
18:38-!-theholyduck [~duckzorz@38.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
18:38<theholyduck>how large of a map could i host for 2-3 players on a box with 64mb ram free?
18:38<theholyduck>with openttd :P
18:39<theholyduck>dedicated server obviously
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause>64mb ram? you hardly fit one map in there...
18:40<Xaroth>depends a big deal on CPU as well
18:40<Xaroth>but probably.. not that big of a map either
18:40<theholyduck>well im running a 256x256 map currently
18:40<theholyduck>alone on it
18:41*theholyduck starts building rails and sees what happens with mem consumption
18:41<Xaroth>how full is it
18:41<theholyduck>29mb left!
18:41<theholyduck>:D
18:41<theholyduck>ofcourse i dont have much in the names of trains or anything yet
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>a 256^2 map uses about 1MB by itself (each tile uses 9 byte)
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>then you need additional space for the vehicles
18:42<Xaroth>576kb that be
18:42<theholyduck>anyone wanna join up and just build stuff to see how far it will go
18:42<Xaroth>+overhead
18:42<PeterT>join what server
18:43-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**8*2**8*9
18:43<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 589824
18:43<theholyduck>PeterT, im seeing how much my box with 64mb of unused ram can handle :P
18:43<theholyduck>in terms of openttd
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, you have a town pool, etc.
18:43<PeterT>lol
18:43<Xaroth>@calc (2**8*2**8*9)/1024
18:43<@DorpsGek>Xaroth: 576
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>64MB is really not a lot...
18:44<theholyduck>indeed
18:44<theholyduck>its just some old box i dont use for anything
18:45<theholyduck>i wanna see how far it can go before i have to switch to one of my server laptops
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>TT original used about 4MB, but had limit of 360 vehicles, i think
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>(that is, each wagon is a vehicle)
18:45<theholyduck>how can you live with that :D
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>you started to notice when getting towards that limits, that the steam engines stopped to "puff"
18:45<theholyduck>in other news, pbs' has made me lazy
18:46<PeterT>theholyduck: hasnt it to all of us
18:46<theholyduck>now i can build all sorts of station layouts and junctions that actually sorta work
18:46<theholyduck>instead of spending effort on it
18:46<theholyduck>but then again, before that, better pathfinding made me lazy
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>on my 386 DX 25 i hit that limit about 1940 (i.e. after 10 years of playing)
18:47<theholyduck>no more building waypoints to make your trains use the correct tracks
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>the game was sooo slow, that i never even saw electric engines, until i played it on a 486 pc
18:47<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, old man is old?
18:47<Nite_Owl>try making them efficient for a large amount of traffic
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>there are older people than me around here ;)
18:48<theholyduck>Nite_Owl, well i've never bothered over 200-300 trains usually
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's the type of computers people were using when TT came out
18:48<theholyduck>after a while you hit that point where you just wanna sit back and draw cocks
18:49<Nite_Owl>I have never reached that point thank you very much
18:50<theholyduck>Nite_Owl, actually last time i was playing. after i felt nice and happy about my netowrk. i spent the next 30 years of the game teaching newbies in how to use signals and build propper junctions
18:52<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
18:52-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:54-!-oskari89 [oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
18:56<fjb>I'm getting other running costs after buying the vehicle in NARS 2.
18:59<luckz>does vehicle amount increase the time it takes for a client to connect/sync?
18:59-!-Zorni [~zorn@d137187.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:59<PeterT>how do i PM again?
18:59<PeterT>@seen Yexo
18:59<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 5 hours, 5 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Yexo> problem with that is that nearly all code uses the map. Effect: You're back without dual-core support
19:02-!-PeterT is now known as Peterewe
19:02-!-Peterewe is now known as PeterT
19:02-!-Zantor [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
19:03<Zantor>anyone here?
19:03<theholyduck>Zantor, no
19:03<theholyduck>Zantor, if you want to say something why not just say it?
19:03<theholyduck>who cares if you're talking to empty air :)
19:04<Zantor>lol
19:04<Zantor>hello
19:04-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-19-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:06<z-MaTRiX>hi
19:06<z-MaTRiX><;
19:06<z-MaTRiX>Zantor, what's up?
19:10-!-theholyduck [~duckzorz@38.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:11-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B83CDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:12<PeterT>Zantor: hey
19:13-!-tokai [~tokai@p54B81BE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
19:13-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
19:16-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet538.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:16<PeterT>what does "voice" mean?
19:16<PeterT>ChanServ gives voice to tokai
19:16<Zantor>hello
19:16<PeterT>what does that mean
19:17<PeterT>hi
19:17<Zantor>umm
19:17<z-MaTRiX>means you have rights to talk
19:17<z-MaTRiX>:)
19:17<Zantor>if someone has voice they can talk even if the channel gets locked down
19:17<Zantor>in such a way that nobody can chat
19:17<PeterT>oh
19:18<PeterT>i understand
19:18<Zantor>I wish I could find or build an external drive for <50 USD
19:20<z-MaTRiX>hahah is it cool to start an OpenTTD game in 1650?
19:22<PeterT>you cant even build anything
19:22<z-MaTRiX>yep
19:22<z-MaTRiX>just wondering how can i make money ;>>
19:23<Zantor>heh
19:23<Zantor>it's a toss-up
19:23<z-MaTRiX>built 2 docks
19:23<z-MaTRiX>without ships
19:23<Zantor>I can get an enclosure and drive for about 60 USD or I can get an external drive for 50 or 60 USD
19:23<z-MaTRiX>;/
19:23<fjb>Starting in 1830 is possible.
19:23<z-MaTRiX>though i would higher some indians with some boats...
19:23<z-MaTRiX>if į can
19:23<z-MaTRiX><;
19:24<Zantor>think about when the steam locomotive was invented, and start then
19:25<fjb>eGRVTS has vehicles from 1700 on. But that is not that much fun. NARS 2 has first steam locomotive in 1830.
19:25<fjb>But you should disable inflation when starting that early.
19:27<z-MaTRiX>wow terragenesis can do real continents
19:28<z-MaTRiX>hehe
19:29<z-MaTRiX> its interesting anyway
19:29<Zantor>can terragenesis do parts of the US?
19:29<fjb>My three coal mines got exhausted one after the other, almost at once. :-(
19:29<z-MaTRiX>bank balance goes to negative by "other"
19:30-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Quit: ecke]
19:30<Zantor>or maybe I misunderstand
19:30<z-MaTRiX>loan:0 bank-balance:0 and nothing
19:30<z-MaTRiX>Zantor, it is random i guess
19:31<z-MaTRiX>just generating some interesting things
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>there is a general substraction of 100 pounds every month, or something
19:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75594.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
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19:33<z-MaTRiX>sure i guess have to eat something :)
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>just for the company being there
19:33<Zantor>Eddi
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>Zantor:
19:33<Zantor>that is corporate license renewal in the real world
19:34<Zantor>businesses pay oh so much per year to register them
19:34<z-MaTRiX>and food
19:34<Zantor>yes, Eddi?
19:34<z-MaTRiX>:)
19:34<Zantor>lol
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>nothing
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>i just wanted to return the favour of saying my name
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>by saying your name
19:35<Zantor>ok...
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's the monthly upkeep of the company coffee maker
19:37<z-MaTRiX>btw
19:37<z-MaTRiX>why can't i bring water from the nearby ocean to town?
19:39<PeterT>because its salt water
19:40<z-MaTRiX>they don't have to know that ;>
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>that's a genious idea... the whole ocean is full of water, why not drink it?... why has nobody got this idea before?
19:40-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-24-144-96.winn.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:40<+glx>@mode +m
19:40-!-mode/#openttd [+m] by DorpsGek
19:40<+glx>PeterT: voice is useful in this case :)
19:41<+glx>@mode -m
19:41-!-mode/#openttd [-m] by DorpsGek
19:41-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by DorpsGek
19:41<PeterT>@mode -m
19:41-!-mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by DorpsGek
19:41<PeterT>can i have a voice?
19:41-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-24-144-96.winn.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
19:41<@SmatZ>why?
19:42<z-MaTRiX>:)
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>you can have your voice back, if you give up your legs
19:42<@SmatZ>:-D
19:42<PeterT>ok
19:43<@SmatZ>I can voice you now, but you will lose it when you disconnect
19:43*PeterT gives his legs to Eddi|zuHause
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm sure nobody actually got the "arielle" reference :p)
19:43<PeterT>ok
19:43-!-KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-171-52-211.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
19:43<PeterT>thanks smatz
19:43-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.10.24] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?]
19:43<+glx>I can voice him too :)
19:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v PeterT] by SmatZ
19:43<@SmatZ>you can unvoice him as well ;)
19:44<+PeterT>what do i do now?
19:44<@SmatZ>the same you could before
19:44<@SmatZ>unless this channel is +m
19:44<@SmatZ>and it isn't
19:44<+PeterT>@channel = +m
19:44<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: 'supybot.=' is not a valid configuration variable.
19:44<+PeterT>@channel
19:44<@DorpsGek>PeterT: channel [<channel>] <name> [<value>]
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>"the same thing we do evry night, pinky"
19:44<@SmatZ>PeterT: you can't change channel modes
19:44<+PeterT>ok
19:45<+PeterT>can you?
19:45<KenjiE20|LT>"Try to take over the world"
19:45<+PeterT>i want to try out voice
19:45<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: fail?
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>glx: which part?
19:45<@SmatZ>PeterT: this isn't #test nor #flood nor whatever :-/
19:45<+PeterT>#test
19:45<@SmatZ>...
19:45<+glx>it's the result of what they do every night
19:46<@SmatZ>join your own channel and test voice there :)
19:46<@SmatZ> /join #PeterTchan
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>?
19:46<+PeterT>my own channel?
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>glx: you are speaking in riddles
19:47<@SmatZ>hehe
19:47<+PeterT>anyone care to join my server "! ! !SimulationNation World Map"
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>and i am kind of ill, so...
19:47<KenjiE20|LT>there once was a man from kentu... wait that's not right
19:47<+glx>I just did a quick jump to the end of the episode :)
19:48<@SmatZ>PeterT: there are more servers than players :(
19:48<+PeterT>cool
19:48<+PeterT>will you join mine?
19:48<+glx>devs don't play
19:48<@SmatZ>hehe
19:48<KenjiE20|LT>ever
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>hey, it's like 15 years ago that i watched that show...
19:48<KenjiE20|LT>:P
19:48<+PeterT>SmatZ: players ONLINE, or players in total?
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>and not even in english
19:48<@SmatZ>online
19:48<+PeterT>ok
19:48<+PeterT>thats probably true
19:49<+PeterT>how can devs not play
19:49<+PeterT>isnt that how you figure out bugs
19:49<@SmatZ>PeterT: Servers registered as on 2009-05-19 23:49:04 UTC. There are 81 clients, 150 IPv4 servers and 4 IPv6 servers.
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>the more devs play, the less they dev
19:49<KenjiE20|LT>^
19:49<@SmatZ>at http://servers.openttd.org
19:49<+PeterT>k
19:49<+glx>and everytime a dev play he finds something to change
19:49<@SmatZ>hehe
19:49<KenjiE20|LT>and then 10 people go WRY!!
19:50<+PeterT>SmatZ: how long would it take to code a search in multiplayer?
19:50<+glx>TMWFTLB
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of search?
19:50<@SmatZ>as glx said
19:50<+glx>I guess it's player search
19:51<+PeterT>search like, search thourgh names of servers
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>there is a server filter patch in the forum
19:51<@SmatZ>hmm as well as "filter signs" patch
19:51<@SmatZ>someone should really commit them :-p
19:52<+PeterT>i know the server filter patch
19:52<+PeterT>it doesnt have a search
19:52<+glx>someone's todo list is too big
19:52<@SmatZ>@seen someone
19:52<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 16 weeks, 3 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
19:52<@SmatZ>he's not really active :-/
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>but it's an awesome "last words" line :p
19:53<@Belugas>[19:52] <Eddi|zuHause> the more devs play, the less they dev <-- damned... petern, we should store away guit and synth and start deving...
19:53<@SmatZ>;)
19:54<@SmatZ>hehe
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: yes, and give up wives and kids while at it :p
19:54<@Belugas>and kitty!!!
19:54<@Belugas>but i'll keep the beer, if you don't mind
19:54<@SmatZ>:-p
19:55<@Belugas>speaking of which (all of the above), it's time :D
19:57<@SmatZ>time for kid, wife, guitar and beer? at once? :-p
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>you forgot kitty
19:59<@SmatZ>aww kitty :3
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20:02<z-MaTRiX>(L) hellokitty ?
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20:27<Eddi|zuHause>"L"?
20:29<+glx>msn emoticon
20:29<@SmatZ>ah
20:30<@SmatZ>what does that depict/
20:30<@SmatZ>?
20:30<+glx>a heart
20:30<@SmatZ>awww :)
20:31<@SmatZ>you can use MSN client to connect to IRC?
20:31<@SmatZ>or you just have to remember what (L) is :)
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>i hate such smilies
20:31<+glx>I don't use them
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>one time i wrote (C) and it got replaced by a coffee mug
20:32<@SmatZ>ICQ at least uses *KISSING* *KISSED* *IN LOVE* and such ;)
20:32<@SmatZ>so you know what it means :)
20:32<@SmatZ>hehehe
20:32<+glx>(B) is nice
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>i was using Kopete
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>(connecting to ICQ)
20:33<@SmatZ>I am using pidgin (gaim) (in KDE ;)
20:37-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20:39<PeterT>is there a way to chat while joining a multiplayer game?
20:39<+glx>no
20:39<PeterT>ok
20:39<PeterT>thanks
20:39-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
20:39<+glx>it used to work, but some people abused it to spam
20:40-!-mizipzor [mizipzor@titan.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:44<@SmatZ>;)
20:44<@SmatZ>I was really surprised anyone misuses OTTD for spam
20:44-!-reldred [~reldred@wirele5.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #openttd
20:44<+glx>at least it was not commercial spam
20:45<+glx>just ottd server advertising
20:45<@SmatZ>:)
20:45<@SmatZ>good there aren't people "killing" servers
20:45<@SmatZ>though... I several times wanted to "kill" servers so their admins upgrade to current version ;)
20:46<+glx>yeah we could do that :)
20:46<@SmatZ>the "SIGSEGV them" way, not "grep at masterserver" way ;)
20:46<+glx>but it becomes harder
20:48<@SmatZ>the more fun :)
20:49<@SmatZ>~23 servers 0.6.3, 6 servers older...
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20:50<@SmatZ>hmm which one of 0.5.3 killers should I choose...
20:52<+glx>killing 0.5.x is too easy ;)
20:53<+glx>IIRC there was some asserts in commands
20:53<@SmatZ>even without asserts :)
20:54-!-fjb [~frank@p5485DBD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:01<Zantor>hey all
21:01<Zantor>guess what
21:01-!-Zantor [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
21:02<@SmatZ>no!
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21:40<kkb1101>often whenever play with a 'blue' company on a network game, it's confusing to distinguish between 'the sea' and 'the blue' in map. How about putting small white dots in the sea?
21:44<welshdragon>kkb1101, or just use another colour for boats
21:47<kkb1101>I just took an example screenshot http://dancingwhale.linuxstudy.pe.kr/ttdblue.png
21:50<welshdragon>that's distinguishable
21:51<welshdragon>the sea has waves anyway
21:51<kkb1101>in the left-right cornor small map??
21:51<kkb1101>upper-left
21:52<welshdragon>that's because it is the wromg overlay
21:52<welshdragon>you need the little train
21:53<kkb1101>you mean the buttons for different view at the bottom?
21:53<welshdragon>yes
21:54<kkb1101>but it's not something 'wrong' and.. actually that is my favorite view
21:54<kkb1101>because I usually join more a server more than 5 people
21:54<welshdragon>yes
21:55<welshdragon>but that view isn't to show vehicles, aircraft or ships
21:55<kkb1101>I know
21:56<kkb1101>the point here is 'the blue company color is undistinguishable with water when use company-color view'
21:57<kkb1101>ok nevermind, nobody needs change, I can make patch myself and use myslef
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---Logclosed Wed May 20 00:00:26 2009