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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-27

---Logopened Wed May 27 00:00:18 2009
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00:43<Pizen>good morning
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01:30<z-MaTRiX>hi
01:31<z-MaTRiX>:) interesting AI detected Jam
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02:20<dihedral>haha
02:20<dihedral>Sing a pore kid -> Sing a poor kid :-D
02:21<@petern>that's so 5 years ago
02:21<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791627#p791627 <- lol
02:21<dihedral>yes petern probably is :-P
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02:24<Singaporekid>oh you
02:28<Xaroth>dihedral: he's just being a git tbh
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03:23<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791635#p791635 <-- nice reply, dihedral :)
03:24<dihedral>hehe :-)
03:25<Forked>Comperende :\
03:26<Forked>too early for the whoring of the forums.. coffeeee
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04:15<Pizen>when making a patch, should I make it for the current revision, the latest nightly, the testing or the stable release?
04:18<planetmaker>always head
04:18<planetmaker>e.g. latest available version on the repository.
04:19<Pizen>so 16447 for now?
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04:28<Pizen>I'll take that as a yes
04:29<dihedral>Pizen, svn up, THAT revision!
04:29<dihedral>and of trunk
04:29<Pizen>current HEAD is presumably 16447
04:29<Pizen>trunk of course
04:29-!-reldred [~richard@115.131.198.120] has joined #openttd
04:30<Pizen>(that's what SVN tells me anyway)
04:30<dihedral>then you have your answer
04:30<Pizen>good then =)
04:30<Pizen>just making sure I do not write stuff in vain
04:30<dihedral>you already did
04:30<Pizen>...
04:30<dihedral>and again!
04:30<Pizen>I meant ... bleh =p
04:30<dihedral>:-D
04:34<Pizen>quick question
04:34<Pizen>when were the strings changed?
04:34<Pizen>(what rev?)
04:35<dihedral>which strings?
04:35<dihedral>langauge?
04:35<Pizen>no, uh
04:35<Pizen>just the removal of the explicit ID
04:35<dihedral>i have no idea what you want :-P
04:36<Pizen>well it isn't vital anyway, I just ...
04:36<Pizen>well, I wanted to update the "buy land area" patch, but it used the old STR_5808_CAN_T_PURCHASE_THIS_LAND format
04:36<Pizen>and as far as I can tell, that'd be STR_CAN_T_PURCHASE_THIS_LAND now
04:38*Pizen compiles
04:38<dihedral>you can search english.txt for that ;-)
04:38<dihedral>if you find it, congrats
04:38<Pizen>I didn't need to change the string, just find the correct enum to put in the source code
04:38<Pizen>and I did, in strings.h
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04:40<dihedral>well done!
04:40<Pizen>well I missed the _ERROR part of the prefix, so I'll have to compile again - but thanks!
04:41<dihedral>like i said - search in english.txt to get the id
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04:41<Pizen>I don't need the ID
04:41<Pizen>oh, OH
04:42<Pizen>for when I develop stuff myself
04:42<Pizen>I'll keep that in mind
04:42<Pizen>thanks ^^
04:44<Pizen>oh joy it works
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04:50<Pizen>now, to update the cargodist patch
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04:53<Pizen>what is the current view on patch "packs"?
04:54<dihedral>they dont live long
04:54<Pizen>that figures
04:54<dihedral>you get a bunch of 'users'
04:54<dihedral>and if you approach it like alain - they are very annoying
04:55<Pizen>I'm packing them up for my own sake, just figured some other people might be interested - I realise the odds of my taste in patches probably doesn't match with that of many other people, though
04:55<dihedral>if you are prepared to get a bunch of 'uh add this' and 'i want that'
04:55<Pizen>I'm not
04:55<dihedral>and keep your work up to date
04:55<Pizen>=P
04:55<dihedral>and post win32 bins
04:55<dihedral>and fix bugs
04:55<Pizen>well
04:56<dihedral>and find out in which patch the bug was caused
04:56<Pizen>as said, I'm not
04:56<dihedral>and and and
04:56<dihedral>aye
04:56<Pizen>so I'll just leave it be and use it for friends and myself
04:56<dihedral>:-)
04:57<Pizen>in what way did alain approach it, though?
04:58<dihedral>read the kgat thread
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04:59<Pizen>I see
05:03-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g228071230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
05:08<Pizen>do you mind all these questions?
05:11<dihedral>if someone wants to make a patchpack he should not expect that amount of support in applying his first patch and being told how to compile
05:12<dihedral>that person most likely has no clue of the code, or how to code
05:12<dihedral>and therefore is just not the right person to make a patch pack
05:12<dihedral>you can simply read that thread and understand
05:13<dihedral>it's harsh - yes, but nobody here wants to constantly have to babysit such a person
05:14<dihedral>then we might as well just do the work ourselves
05:15<planetmaker>Pizen, if you are interested in some client-side only patches, I can recommend you to have a look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottdbash/repository/browse/autostart/patches (It's a shameless plug, yes :P )
05:15<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43723 <- lol
05:16<Pizen>dihedral, well no, I agree
05:16<dihedral>hehe planetmaker
05:16<dihedral>:-P
05:16<Pizen>planetmaker, I'll have a look at that
05:16<dihedral>i loved it when alain mentioned he had tortoisesvn installed but did not find the 'compile' button :-D
05:17<planetmaker>hehe. If you're interested in starting with a client-side only patch pack, you might start there :)
05:17<Pizen>... XD
05:17<Noldo>I never really understood what the point of patchpacks is
05:17<Pizen>also aww
05:17<Pizen>that's kinda cute actually
05:17<dihedral>hehe
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05:17-!-mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
05:17<dihedral>uh
05:17<dihedral>hello Rubidium
05:17<planetmaker>uh :)
05:17<planetmaker>Hello Rubidium :)
05:17<Pizen>I also read earlier someone asking about "where to put the patch file to make it work ingame"
05:17<@Rubidium>'lo
05:17<dihedral>how is you sir?
05:18<Pizen>planetmaker, I'm not really that interested in patch packs
05:18*Rubidium wonders how long it takes till he gets sent away again
05:18<planetmaker>Pizen, sorry, didn't read whole backlog. I thought you considered to do one yourself - though only for you and a few friends :)
05:18<planetmaker>hehe @ Rubidium :)
05:19<dihedral>Rubidium, stay :-)
05:19<planetmaker>^^
05:19<dihedral>the channel feels so empty without you :-)
05:19<planetmaker>hm... it helps to have a newer hg version than 1.0.36
05:19<planetmaker>no error on hg up anymore :)
05:20<dihedral>:-P
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05:20<@Rubidium>looks like you can use a package manager that updates hg for you ;)
05:20<Pizen>planetmaker, nah, I'm just applying a few patches and afterwards distributing the binaries to the friends I play with.
05:21<planetmaker>well... Rubidium my packet manager didn't find a new one. But once I told it where to get it, it accepted it flawlessly :)
05:21<dihedral>"but you English-speaking colleagues propably not to be a very celebrated" <- WHAT?
05:21<planetmaker>but probably I didn't tell yast the proper repository source. So... nvm :)
05:22<Pizen>yeah, about that ... there seems to be quite some problems with the English on the boards at times
05:22<dihedral>"But to me, and so many helps you.." <- hehehe
05:22<planetmaker>"what?"
05:22<Pizen>not that I'd mind normally, but sometimes it reaches the point of no intelligibility
05:22<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791668#p791668
05:23<dihedral>Pizen, hehe might be a 'bug' in phpBB :-D
05:23<Noldo>it's a feature
05:23<dihedral>:-P
05:24<planetmaker>he...
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05:25<Pizen>well, cargodist seems to crash when somewhat directly applied to the newest rev. Seems like I have to get my hands dirty :/
05:25<planetmaker>hehe. the patch is not like a clean solution afaik either
05:26<Pizen>it's not just a diff of the cargodist mercurial to trunk?
05:26<Rexxars>I was thinking about making an OpenTTD tshirt, to complete my geek tshirt collection.. wouldnt that be awesome? :D
05:26<dihedral>i love the forum topic: " Help! Server!"
05:26<planetmaker>oh, that might be, probably will be.
05:26<planetmaker>^ @ Pizen
05:27<Pizen>then how would it not be a clean solution? unless you mean the actual implementation not being clean ^^
05:27<dihedral>not implemented nicely?
05:27<planetmaker>but doesn't mean that the patch intrinsically is a good solution to the problem it tries to solve :)
05:27<dihedral>^^
05:27<@Rubidium>Rexxars: I think someone already tried that
05:27<dihedral>does orudge not have a shop?
05:27<Pizen>nono, I get it. I thought you were talking about the patch not being the best way to get the code in there
05:27<@Rubidium>Rexxars: http://www.cafepress.com/openttd
05:27<dihedral>i recall something like that
05:28<planetmaker>Pizen, yes, I mean that. And not sure the approach of it is the desired solution to cargo destinations.
05:28<Rexxars>cool.. not a big fan of cafepress tho, spreadshirt usually does a better job :)
05:28<dihedral>thanks Rubidium :-)
05:28<dihedral>was trying to remember that url
05:28<@Rubidium>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39405&start=0 <- well, suggest it ;)
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05:29<dihedral>Rubidium, a mug with the intro game on it could be fun :-D
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05:35<Pizen>what makes TTDPatch interesting? ie. why is it still active (if it is)?
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05:35<@Rubidium>that you can disable everything*
05:36<dihedral>* <- hehe
05:36<dihedral>Pizen, why would it not be active?
05:36<@Rubidium>(* everything is not everything when you want to play under a Windows from the NT family, anything later than ME)
05:36<Pizen>well, it just seems to me that TTDPatch is OpenTTD with less features. But I've never tried it
05:37<Pizen>TTDPatch, that is
05:37<Hirundo>ttdpatch still has some stuff openttd doesn't have (e.g. custom bridge heads)
05:37<dihedral>??
05:37<Pizen>oh, I didn't know that
05:37<dihedral>they are 2 different things Pizen
05:37<Pizen>I know
05:37<dihedral>then the one cannot be the other ;-)
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05:37<Pizen>I didn't say it was. Just that my impression was that whatever TTDPatch has done, OpenTTD has also
05:37<@Rubidium>neither OpenTTD's features are a superset of TTDPatch's features nor are TTDPatch's features a superset of OpenTTD's features
05:37<Pizen>that turned out to be untrue though
05:38<Pizen>well, that answers my question quite well
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06:10<Amr0d>hi
06:10<Pizen>hi
06:11<Pizen>hmm, what exactly is "moving average length" and "moving average unit"?
06:11<Pizen>other than magic
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06:14<Nester>morning peeps
06:15<Nester>iam running @ the moment a server can some look fore it on the server list?
06:16<Nester>**dutchBase** its namend
06:16<Noldo>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
06:17<Pizen>not there
06:17<Nester>well ist not on that servers list! how long does it takes untill the main server will see my server running
06:17<jonty-comp>0 seconds, usually
06:18<jonty-comp>is it dedicated?
06:18<Nester>its on my priavte computer!
06:18<Nester>runnign mohaa on it too
06:18<jonty-comp>check firewalls and things then is all I can suggest
06:19<jonty-comp>and check it's on internet mode and not lan mode
06:20<Nester>well i restarted the game
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06:24<Amr0d>I still need a 4 way 6 track junction
06:24<Amr0d>:(
06:24<Amr0d>But I am to stupid for that I think
06:29<Yexo>do you really need such a big junctions? (do you already have trains running?
06:29<Yexo>if not, try a 4 way 4 track junction first
06:31<dihedral>Amr0d, you can look at the openttdcoop junctionary, it's in the wiki at www.openttdcoop.org
06:31<Amr0d>yea I did
06:31<dihedral>Nester, make sure you are forwarding the udp ports not just the tcp ones
06:31<Amr0d>but there are no 6 track junctions
06:31<Amr0d>only 2 and 4
06:31<dihedral>style would be the same
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06:32<Yexo>Amr0d: there you go http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/images/7/7d/Psg102_bbh01.png
06:33<dihedral>hehehe
06:33<Amr0d>errr......no
06:33<dihedral>these openttdcoop junctions are insance :-)
06:33<dihedral>errrr.....yes
06:34<Yexo>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/images/d/d0/SandboxGame35.png another one
06:34<Amr0d>I want to know how long it takes to build such a junction
06:34<Yexo>depending on the player from a few minutes up to an hour :p
06:35<Amr0d>an hour?
06:35<Amr0d>atleast two days here
06:35<Yexo>I have no idea
06:35<Amr0d>3 with corrections
06:35<Amr0d>^^
06:36<dihedral>Amr0d: then start smaller
06:36<dihedral>or just waste the 3 days you need
06:36<planetmaker>I think a full-style 4-way BBH with two tracks per direction will take me more than an hour. I rather think two.
06:36<Amr0d>I did but it doesn't work
06:36<planetmaker>I only start it, if I'm sure I want to spend the evening on it :)
06:36<Yexo>you're far better off gettnig the techniques that were used to make the junction (split-before join, double bridges, etc.) then copying an exising junction
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06:37*dihedral nodes at Yexo
06:37<dihedral>*nods
06:37<dihedral>hehe
06:37<dihedral>nodes :-P
06:37<planetmaker>and spending three days initially on it is no waste. It will teach you what works and what not
06:37<Yexo>planetmaker: I had no idea, so I did a random guess
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06:37<planetmaker>Yexo, there are people who build such things way faster than me.
06:37<dihedral>XeryusTC :-P
06:37<Amr0d>I could build a junction, thats not the problem but when I am finished it looks like puking rails all over the field
06:38<planetmaker>I always exercise some kind of perfectionism :) E.g. not a single slightly slow curve etc ;)
06:38<planetmaker>doubling every bridge / tunnel etc.
06:38<dihedral>planetmaker, it's a game - sure it's a waste of time :-P
06:38<planetmaker>Amr0d, you should really just get a couple of games from our archives and have a look there how different hubs were built.
06:38<planetmaker>you might then get the hang of it.
06:39<planetmaker>dihedral, yes, sure :)
06:40<planetmaker>but can be an enjoyable waste :P
06:40<dihedral>uh yeah it can :-P
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06:41<dihedral>addicting
06:41<dihedral>hehe - anonymous openttd addicts :-P
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06:49<planetmaker>hehe
07:13<Hirundo>hg.openttd.org gives http error 500 - internal server error
07:13<Hirundo>git results in the same error, svn does work
07:18<oskari89>10000 lakes scenario in progress :)
07:19<oskari89>Based on heightmap of Finland..
07:23<oskari89>It _really_ has 10000 lakes :P
07:24<SpComb>one boat in each lake
07:24<oskari89>:P
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07:29<dihedral>SpComb, you aint gonna get that far :-D
07:29<dihedral>not with yapf :-P
07:30<@petern>shouldn't be a problem
07:30<@petern>if they don't have orders
07:30<oskari89>Hmm, it's nice to test how ships go from place to another in this one ;)
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07:42<planetmaker>he, that guy with the bus stuck on the pavement is actually right. I can re-produce that.
07:44<planetmaker>FS#2909 ^
07:46<Hirundo>I couldn't reproduce the pavement thing, but if I deleted a DTRS with a stopped bus inside, it wouldn't go anywhere afterwards
07:47<planetmaker>It worked here :)
07:47<planetmaker>it would then jump from the left pavement to the right and back, turning on each side.
07:47<planetmaker>kinda teleporting over the road in between :D
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08:13<Hirundo>What is the preferred variable name for a variable of type Train *, t or v?
08:13<Yexo>currently it's all v
08:13<Yexo>but maybe SmatZ want to change that
08:14<@Rubidium>I'd personally go for '*v' (Vehicle) as '*t' is used for Towns
08:14<Hirundo>Thanks, I'll go for v now
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08:50<Amr0d>wohey
08:50<Amr0d>I did it
08:50<Amr0d>build my own junction
08:50<Amr0d>looks abit weird but it works
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09:10<@Belugas>hello all
09:16-!-mikk36|work [~mikk36@ntsrv.lakrito.ee] has joined #openttd
09:16<mikk36|work>hey :)
09:16<mikk36|work>it's nice to see that road vehicles station handling has been finally fixed
09:17<mikk36|work>no pointless queueing for one single station when there are others available
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09:19<@Belugas>they have? darn... another thing been addressed withouth me noticing
09:19<mikk36|work>6 stations combined to one and buses share them just fine
09:19<mikk36|work>no clogging up
09:20<Ammler>mikk36|work: maybe you just have luck.
09:20<Yexo>FS#1944, it's still not perfect, but the worst bug was fixed in r14703
09:20<mikk36|work>several games in a row already
09:21<mikk36|work>all 6 stations are rather equally used
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09:22<Hirundo>Is gcc 3.4.5/MinGW supported by OpenTTD, or is it too old?
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09:24<Yexo>I have that exact version working here
09:27<@Rubidium>it's the only 'stable' gcc for mingw :(
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause>why do they have such big problems getting gcc4 running?
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09:52<@Belugas>gcc4 has still not received the shoes he ordered ;)
09:52<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because you're trying to run it in a chroot with /dev and /proc ?
09:52<@Rubidium>the question is, which gcc4 ;)
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really understand what you just said
09:53<@Rubidium>s/with/without/ ?
09:56<@Rubidium>anyhow, gcc4.3, gcc4.4 and gcc4.5 work fine on my computer
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>then what exactly is the holdup to declaring it "stable"?
10:00<@Rubidium>hmm, 'they' as in the mingw people ;)
10:01<@Rubidium>they complain about broken compilers and then they promised to release gcc4.2 'soon', which changed into release gcc4.3 'soon', which changed into release gcc4.4 'soon', which I don't trust anymore
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11:17<PeterT>nobody talks?
11:17<PeterT>whatever
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11:20<Roujin_>who's PeterT? evil twin of petern?
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11:21<@Rubidium>a template of Peter
11:22<Roujin_>:)
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11:29<z-MaTRiX>hi
11:30<nicfer>heya
11:31<@Belugas>funny... nobody talks, and he quits... Why didn't he started a conversation instead??
11:31<@Belugas>people... go figure...
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11:32<z-MaTRiX>found bug in AI
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>lucky you, keep it.
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>hang it on the wall of your hunting chamber
11:33<z-MaTRiX>"Your script made an error the index 'station_manager' does not exist"
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>that is most likely known... refer to the AI's thread
11:34<Yexo>yes, it's known
11:34<z-MaTRiX>ok
11:35<z-MaTRiX>is there a log file with AI-debug?
11:35<Yexo>nope
11:41<z-MaTRiX>was searching for it
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11:57<XeryusTC>Amr0d> I want to know how long it takes to build such a junction <- depending on the junction from half an hour to half a day
11:58<Amr0d>http://img29.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amr0dtransport10apr1945.png&via=tfrog
11:58<Amr0d>after trying and trying I managed to build my own
11:59<Amr0d>was pretty hard in my opinion but it works very good
11:59<Amr0d>costs about 70m € :)
12:00<Amr0d>most of it was spend to flatten the land
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12:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's one of the reasons why i think such junctions are the wrong approach...
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>why flatten the landscape if you can take it to your advantage?
12:02<@petern>urgh
12:02<@petern>how ugly
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12:02<@petern>and an attack of signals everywhere
12:03<Amr0d>its my first one :)
12:03<Amr0d>be patient
12:03<Amr0d>I will build better ones
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>we need a gameplay mechanism to thwart the whole signal-every-tile mess
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>like limiting speed to 20km/h*signal distance
12:06<@petern>:D
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>that would be so cool to force the coop people to a 15 tile distance when they want to go 300km/h :p
12:08<Ammler>lol :P
12:08<Amr0d>thats crap
12:08<Amr0d>otherwise I couldn't send hundreds of trains on my rails
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>it would add another dimension to deciding an optimal train length
12:09<Ammler>a switch Be1ugas/Eddi mode
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>why "switch"? in no place i used the "r"-word ;)
12:10<Ammler>:-)
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12:14<Ammler>well, that junction of Amr0d has nothing to do with coop.
12:14<Amr0d>is there a difference?
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, but it shows a certain direction
12:14<Amr0d>aslong as it works it should be ok
12:14<Ammler>except it is using the same game engine ;-)
12:15<Ammler>that is more like a wiki.openttd.org junction :-)
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause>and i wasn't referring to his junction specifically. i was formulating a new challenge to the "we take every challenge" people :p
12:16<Amr0d>its my first one and i am lucky :)
12:16<Amr0d>because it works
12:17<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: of course, it would be nice to find a way "around" :-)
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>as in "i hereby challenge you to a (strict) 15 tile signal distance game"
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12:18<@Belugas>[12:12] <Ammler> a switch Be1ugas/Eddi mode <--- that was sneaky! It almost is good enough for a kick!
12:19<Ammler>ah, I tried to make it secret from you, mäh, I failed :-D
12:19<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, that would be part of a per-game config, a bit lke the goal stuff
12:20<@Belugas>Ammler, even if i do not pollute the channel with all the insanities laying in my head, i still read most of it when at work
12:20<@Belugas>:)
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it could be a simple (mental) game restriction, but it could be useful to have a gameplay mechanism that enforces/encourages certain behaviour
12:22<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: btw, the 1st or 2nd cargodest coop game with celestar had signal gaps like that and most junctions were included to stations.
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>like the physics simulator enforcing curve radius
12:22<Ammler>(we are able to play that style)
12:22<Ammler>just not many of us :-(
12:24<Ammler>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Dev_Server#.22Subrules.22_for_current_Pax.2FCargo_Destination_game
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12:25<Ammler>"3) Block signals are every 15 tiles"
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>one thing i noticed with long signal distances is that the block length should be platform length + junction length, otherwise you increase the signal distance at stations
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13:12<@petern>um
13:13<@petern>you do?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes. you have one signal before the junction and one signal behind the platform
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>inbetween are no safe waiting locations
13:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16448 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2909]: road vehicles ending up on the pavement when they are in a drive through station that got removed due to bankruptcy
13:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16449 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2924]: vehicle recolouring wasn't done for engine preview/news
13:22<@petern>heh, "Fix"
13:22<@petern>vehicles have never ever been recoloured in the news message
13:23<@Rubidium>why do it for the build vehicles gui and not there?
13:23<@petern>who knows
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13:27<Chruker>Can the newgrf stations have layouts where the tracks turn or switch direction?
13:27<@petern>no
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>they should have, but petern screwed it up :p
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13:29<@Belugas>liar liar, pants on fire
13:29<Chruker>2nd Q: Are the sounds in openttd the original ones? If so are there any projects aiming at replacing them?
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
13:29-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B6FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:29<Ammler>(and yes)
13:29-!-Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd
13:30<Muxy>Kiss from Goulp
13:31<@Belugas>Lick from Belugas
13:31<@petern>Punch from Ammler
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>i should sue this goulp guy for sexual harrassment
13:32<Muxy>thanks men
13:32<@Belugas>who said we are men?
13:33<@Belugas>who said we were boys?
13:33<Muxy>hum i suposed there's minimum one...
13:33<Muxy>should i says, thanks shadocks
13:34<Muxy>*say
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13:36<@Belugas>we are electronic entities floating on an eternal flux of strange and marvelous particles
13:36-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aeiz172.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
13:38<Prof_Frink>charmingly strange.
13:38<Sacro>who me?
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: translators * r16450 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-27 17:39:46
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 fixed by khaloofah (2)
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: danish - 2 fixed by ThomasA (2)
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: english_US - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2)
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 fixed, 8 changed by anansboga (10)
13:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changed by CrystyB (1)
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13:58<Wolf01>hello
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14:30<@Belugas>Goulp kissed you
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15:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16451 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r16449): crash when a spectator (or dedicated server) received news about new engine
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16:37<EoD>hi
16:39<@Belugas>hi
16:42-!-ctibor__ [~ctibor@gprs2.vodafone.cz] has joined #openttd
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16:46<Wolf01>'night
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16:49<@Belugas>soooo boringly vague... does not even deserve the usual Go Search answer -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43730
16:50<@Belugas>Mommy Mommy! Gimme Gimme!
16:50-!-FooBar_ [~chatzilla@ip56581491.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd
16:51<z-MaTRiX>hey
16:51<FooBar_>hi
16:57-!-Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:57<@Belugas>bye bye, time to hit the road
16:57<@Rubidium>yes Belugas, we know you want to go home ;)
16:57<@Belugas>:D
16:57<@Belugas>i want?
16:57-!-ctibor__ [~ctibor@gprs2.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57<@Belugas>i CRAVE!!!!!
16:57<@Rubidium>got to Mommy! :)
16:57*Belugas is gnoe
17:02<Prof_Frink>Are you my mummy?
17:05-!-EoD [~EoD@2001:a60:f066:0:215:afff:fe21:f032] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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17:06<FooBar_>is it always this of a ghost town around here?
17:06-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
17:06<FooBar_>I'd expect some more activity given the length of the user list and all...
17:06<@Rubidium>it is when there's nothing special to talk about or nbodoy to bash
17:07<Prof_Frink>Where's Sacro when you need him?
17:07<@Rubidium>in Huhll?
17:07<Sacro>zHm?
17:07<FooBar_>you can try and bash me, but that might make me leave :P
17:08<@Rubidium>bash: FooBar_: No such file or directory
17:08-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<Sacro>Prof_Frink: you rang?
17:08<@Rubidium>sorry, it failed
17:08<FooBar_>lol :)
17:08*Prof_Frink bashes Sacro
17:09<Sacro>ow :(
17:09<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: There's no H in Ull
17:10<FooBar_>There's two in Huhll ;)
17:10<@Rubidium>it's no unsigned long long, but a Huh long long
17:10<Prof_Frink>Y'what, eh?
17:11<EoD>hint64_t?
17:12-!-Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:13<Prof_Frink>You're talking nonsenser!
17:13<@Rubidium>did I ever talk non-non-sense?
17:14<Prof_Frink>No. But you're talking nonsenser than usual.
17:25-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
17:26<Sacro>Prof_Frink: nonce sense?
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17:34<welshdragon>if(nonsense=true)bash Sacro
17:35<welshdragon>i have no idea if that makes any sense
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>checking the result of an assignment, always great ;)
17:36<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: while :; do bash Sacro; done
17:37<welshdragon>hmm
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>:(){ :|:& };:
17:37<Prof_Frink>bash bashing.
17:37<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: I don't see the problem, just bash Sacro anyway :)
17:37<Prof_Frink>ESOD!
17:37<Yexo>I've no idea what that does, but I'm not going to try
17:37<Prof_Frink>It's the Evil Smiley Of Death.
17:38<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: hmm I should really type that on my bash prompt, ideally as root
17:38<@SmatZ>just to see what it does
17:38<Prof_Frink>Look up "Fork Bomb" on wikipedia
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>the way i see it, ":" is a parallel-recursive function
17:38<@SmatZ>& doesn't even need to be there
17:39<@SmatZ>(at least last time I tried it ;)
17:39-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aeiz172.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
17:46<welshdragon>i tried forkbombing my macbook
17:46<welshdragon>they have forkbomb protection
17:46*welshdragon goes to forkbomb his vista machine
17:48<Prof_Frink>ulimit, iirc
17:48<welshdragon>yep
17:49<@SmatZ>some linux distros have "rf -Rf /" protection
17:50<Prof_Frink>alias rm='rm --preserve-root'
18:03<Sacro>unlink /
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18:21<Prof_Frink>Or just go for a good old fashioned dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
18:22<@SmatZ>will that work without bs= ?
18:23<Prof_Frink>I don't know, and I'm not going to try.
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's using a default bs of 1024, or something
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19:03<Chruker>is it just me or are the rail and road ai libraries on bananas outdated compared to what people have been posting on the forum?
19:04<Yexo>there are newer versions on the forum, but they are still waiting on feedback before I'll upload those to bananas
19:04<Yexo>at least I hope so
19:05<Chruker>is it the licensing thingy you are waiting on feedback for? or just whether or not the modified versions work?
19:06<Yexo>no, whether everyone is ok with the modified version
19:06-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:06<Yexo>but it's quite some time I checked those thread, I'll do so now
19:07<Chruker>Could also use a ship/canals pathfinder
19:07<Yexo>feel free to write one ;)
19:07<Yexo>I probably have some (old) code to help you get started if you want
19:08-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-13-34-135.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:08<Chruker>It cant hurt :-)
19:09<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/boatai.zip <- a ship ai I wrote quite some time ago
19:09<Yexo>main function is problably only constructino lines between to random docks or so
19:09<Yexo>but there is a working ship pathfinder in there
19:10<Yexo>feel free to use any code under gpl
19:10<Chruker>nice
19:11<Yexo>and for updated pathfinder you can also look in the code for the available AIs
19:12<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16452 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't trigger station animations when the station was deleted in the same tick
19:12<Yexo>as far as I know all of them are under gpl
19:13-!-SineDeviance [~jman@cpe-075-176-106-090.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
19:13<oskari89>Station animations?
19:13<oskari89>Is that possible? O_O
19:13<oskari89>Hmm..
19:13<Yexo>yes, several newgrfs already include them
19:13<oskari89>Is station sound possible too?
19:14<Yexo>quite possible, but I'm not sure about that
19:14<@Rubidium>oskari89: not on deleted stations ;)
19:15<oskari89>Would be nice if, for example, electric catenary feeder station would have 50 hz buzzing stationary sound :)
19:15<oskari89>Planned to Finnish Rail Infrastructure & Stations set.
19:15<SineDeviance>hah i love waking up to my openttd game and having a billion dollars
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19:31<oskari89>Yexo: Is it possible to have stationary sound on level crossing? Like relay ticking? :)
19:31<Yexo>I don't think so, but again I don't know
19:31<Yexo>ask frosch when he's around again
19:31<oskari89>Okay :)
19:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
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19:35<oskari89>Would be a blow on certain enthustians at Finland if it is possible ;)
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19:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16453 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: Move some code around so a company is no longer used after deleting it
19:38<Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791401#p791401 How to do a discussion NekoMaster style:
19:38<Yexo>He: OpenTTD is better then TTDPatch
19:38<Yexo>someone else: but TTDPatch does ... better
19:38<Yexo>he: I don't know about that
19:39<Yexo>it's so easy discussing things that way :p
19:39-!-Aali_ [~aali@84-217-23-7.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #openttd
19:40<oskari89>:DD
19:41*SmatZ has NekoMaster in his Foes list
19:41-!-Aali [~aali@84-217-23-47.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:41<Yexo>I dislike the foes list, since post from foes still mark a topic as unread
19:41<@SmatZ>yeah :(
19:41-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
19:41<Yexo>and when I used it, I read replies from other people,then ended up checking the reply from my foe anyway because I couldn't follow the discussion
19:42<@SmatZ>"invisable" "giuve" "simular" ... in one sentence :-x
19:42<@SmatZ>hehe
19:42<@SmatZ>true
19:42*oskari89 is wondering how to draw this: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiedosto:Liikenteenohjauskeskus_Pieks%C3%A4m%C3%A4ki.jpg
19:42<@SmatZ>and all his sentences look like this
19:42<Yexo>normally I don't care about some spelling mistakes, it's more the contents of his posts I dislike
19:43<@SmatZ>that too :)
19:43<@SmatZ>there is a limit though...
19:43-!-theholyduck_ [~holyduck@38.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>oskari89: you start with one pixel, then put the next one next to it, then another one, and so on, until you have a satisfactory set of pixels
19:52<SineDeviance>hey guys i have a question
19:53<SineDeviance>what's the biggest map you could run stable and smooth on a dedicated server running on a 1500mhz athlonxp and 512meg of ram?
19:53<SineDeviance>oh and winxp
19:53<Yexo>that really depends on the amount of vehicles
19:53<Yexo>but as always: just try and see what works
19:53<SineDeviance>okay
19:53<Yexo>the memory won't be the issue
19:54<SineDeviance>yeah i'm running 512x512 right now with maybe 80 trains and 20 aircraft
19:54<SineDeviance>it's running smoothly so far
19:55-!-Aali_ is now known as Aali
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>back with miniin i had a game that was getting slow with about 120 trains
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>but that had general speed issues, so a current trunk game should be better than that
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>1500mhz is plenty
19:58<SineDeviance>okay
19:58<SineDeviance>awesome
19:59<@SmatZ>openttdcoop is running ~512x512 games with >1000 trains
19:59<@SmatZ>and ~1.5GHz CPU is sufficient for that
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>original TT was starting to get slow on a 60MHz computer with 80 trains
19:59<SineDeviance>SmatZ, seriously? that's pretty amazing
19:59<@SmatZ>so unless you are going to have that many trains, you can play 1024x1024 maps :)
19:59<SineDeviance>SmatZ, haha give me enough time and i could :D
19:59<SineDeviance>the most i've ever had on a singleplayer game was 2800
19:59<SineDeviance>2048x2048
20:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16454 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: -Fix (r16181, r16241): fix the try/catch bug fixed in r16181 and reintroduced in r16241 again, this time without breaking the regression test.
20:00<@SmatZ>SineDeviance: see the archive ;) http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_121_-_130
20:00<@SmatZ>SineDeviance: :-)
20:00<SineDeviance>that game was running on a 3.2ghz p4 prescott and 1gig of ram and was getting slow
20:00<Yexo>well, a 2048x2048 map is 4 times as big as a 1024x1024 map
20:03<SineDeviance>SmatZ, yeah those openttdcoop guys are insane
20:03<SineDeviance>honestly i find their designs are more pretty than practical
20:04-!-ctibor_ [~ctibor@gprs1.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>did you look at other coop games than i did?
20:05<SineDeviance>Eddi|zuHause, such as?
20:05<Yexo>more pretty than practical? That's the first time I've heard that said about openttdcoop designs
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>"pretty" is not the association that i would get
20:06<SineDeviance>Yexo, well... i've played on openttdcoop a few times and it seems like it's mostly about tying up the network
20:06<SineDeviance>that's all well and good but i prefer to make the most profit in the shortest amount of time. the network can come later
20:07<KenjiE20>you can run anything smooth pretty much
20:07<KenjiE20>whether or not your clients can connect is something else :P
20:07<SineDeviance>yeah bandwidth
20:08<SineDeviance>KenjiE20, you have any of those savegames/autosaves from the BuF nightly server?
20:09<KenjiE20>there still in that thread thing in the groups on BuF
20:09<Yexo>SineDeviance: profit is way too easy, running a network with as many trains as possible is much more fun
20:09<SineDeviance>Yexo, i agree, but it's good to have enough money to build that network too :D
20:09<KenjiE20>Moneymakers
20:09<SineDeviance>my favorite thing is goods lines
20:10<Yexo>sure, but with a few well-chosen train lines money is no problem anymore
20:10<SineDeviance>i like to get as much raw resource as possible going to a factory then offload all of it to large cities
20:10<KenjiE20>or a nice long distance air pax
20:10<SineDeviance>i love having trains that make 10 mil a year profit
20:10<SineDeviance>longt trains too :D
20:10<SineDeviance>long* even
20:12<SineDeviance>KenjiE20, you are the man :D
20:13<KenjiE20>i've been trying to tell people that for years, but noooo..
20:13<KenjiE20>:P
20:13<SineDeviance>haha
20:13<@SmatZ>:)
20:14*SmatZ likes air routes for MM too... if town growth is disabled :-P
20:14<KenjiE20>hehe
20:17<SineDeviance>KenjiE20, these are all the saves right?
20:18<KenjiE20>pretty much
20:18<SineDeviance>darn :( well thanks anyways :D
20:18<KenjiE20>i think one or two went missing
20:18<KenjiE20>well iirc one that no one played and one before we started autosaving
20:18<SineDeviance>yeah
20:18<@SmatZ>hmm someone said he has PSG#135 save...
20:18<KenjiE20>smatz; really?
20:19<KenjiE20>cool
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20:19<SineDeviance>the one before the autosaves is probably the one im looking for
20:19<@SmatZ>KenjiE20: yeah, but long time ago :(
20:19<SineDeviance>yea
20:19<KenjiE20>wasn't boothy nubkins was it?
20:19<@SmatZ>hehehe
20:25<SineDeviance>well i started a new map 1024x1024. we'll see how it runs after a while :D
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20:25<+glx>the main problem with big maps is people taking too much time to log in
20:26<KenjiE20>^
20:26<+glx>so you may see a bunch of join/kick
20:26<SineDeviance>i see
20:26<KenjiE20>tends to be reasonable up to about 600+ trains
20:27<+glx>because when someone joins, it must perform all commands issued during the download in a short time
20:28<+glx>commands include vehicle movement, and all other state changes
20:28<@SmatZ>the game is paused... during download? (if enabled)
20:29<+glx>it's paused only when the sync phase IIRC
20:29<KenjiE20>^ yea
20:29<KenjiE20>at least that's how I've noticed it
20:29<+glx>imagine if someone needs 5 minutes to download the save
20:31*glx checks the source to be sure
20:33<+glx>yes it's paused once the client got the map
20:33<@SmatZ>ok :)
20:33<Aali>can you make it pause during the entire download?
20:34<KenjiE20>what if someone decides to cancel during, the game would just pause randomly all the time?
20:35<+glx>and I heard the download stall for some crappy wifi routers
20:36<Aali>it's a simple question but sure, go ahead and spew criticism instead :P
20:36<+glx>Aali: it's very easy to write a client to block server :)
20:36<Aali>I think it would it be nice to have as an option
20:37<@SmatZ>timeout is certainly needed
20:37<@SmatZ>there has to be timeout in current trunk anyway
20:38<KenjiE20>that's the train
20:38<KenjiE20>whoops
20:39<Aali>you can do all sorts of nasty stuff already
20:39<@SmatZ>maybe the timeout to drop a client could be made longer for newly connected clients
20:39<@SmatZ>KenjiE20: indeed
20:39<Aali>but for trusted networks where you want to make sure noone drops it would be okay
20:40<+glx>,...,...,...,...\/* Set the status to DONE_MAP, no we will wait for the client
20:40<+glx>,...,...,...,... * to send it is ready (maybe that happens like never ;)) */
20:40<+glx>the comment tells there's no timeout
20:40<@SmatZ>hmm
20:41<Aali>there's obivously a timeout since people drop if they're not fast enough ;)
20:41<Aali>*obviously
20:41<+glx>not for the download I think
20:42<@SmatZ>Aali: not that obviously, maybe they fail to execute packets they received during "catching up" in time
20:42<Aali>say what?
20:43<Aali>glx: oh, thats what you were talking about, I see
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20:43<KenjiE20>aali, so you mean like a whitelist for clients it's okay to wait a bit longer to 'turbo' up to the current point from the save?
20:44<Aali>KenjiE20: no I mean it would be okay to pause during download on some servers
20:45<Aali>so you don't have to deal with the catch-up phase at all
20:45<+glx>never trust clients
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---Logclosed Thu May 28 00:00:20 2009