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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-29

---Logopened Fri May 29 00:00:25 2009
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03:20<dihedral>oh my - i just looked at sirkoz more diesel smoke patch ^^
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03:24<dihedral>a lot of calculation for each huff and puff
03:25<Azrael->how much is a lot?
03:25<dihedral>original: if (u->cur_speed <= 40 && Chance16(15, 128)) {
03:25<dihedral>sirkoz: if (u->cur_speed < u->tcache.cached_max_speed && Chance16((64 - ((u->cur_speed << 5) / u->tcache.cached_max_speed) + (32 >> (u->tcache.cached_power >> 10)) - (32 >> (u->tcache.cached_weight >> 9))), 128)) {
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03:27<dihedral>i feel like changing something very minor on that patch file and uploading it with his file name style :-D
03:31<dihedral>i feel happy now :-P
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07:28<Prof_Frink>Singaporekid: Maybe you should say that in a channel I'm in, eh?
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09:17<fonsinchen>Is there a short expression in English for "arriving at a station and not travelling any further"?
09:19<fonsinchen>you can say "50 tons of coal terminate at XY"?
09:19<fonsinchen>"depart" is the opposite of "arrive"
09:19<planetmaker>well. then it's not depart :P
09:20<dihedral> :-)
09:20<fonsinchen>unload means the cargo is leaving the vehicle - that doesn't necessarily mean it stays there.
09:20<dihedral>it's still leaving the vehicle
09:21<dihedral>else, you can also ask if there is another word that emphasizes that cargo is going to continue it's journey some other way
09:21<fonsinchen>dihedral, that's "going via".
09:21<dihedral>unloading to go via
09:21<fonsinchen>I want the opposite of "going via"
09:22<fonsinchen>I'm in favour of "terminate", but I don't know if that's correct english. Any native speakers here?
09:22<dihedral>terminate :-P hehe
09:22<dihedral>that sounds like killing a process :_D
09:22<dihedral>or something/someone else
09:22<fonsinchen>yes, the process of travelling.
09:23<Ammler>fonsinchen: KenjiE20 should be ;-)
09:23<dihedral>whats the problem though?
09:23<fonsinchen>I want entries in the station GUI saying something like "50 passengers terminating".
09:23<fonsinchen>In analogy to "50 passengers going via London"
09:23<dihedral>what for?
09:24<dihedral>who cares for those passengers who will not travel any further?
09:24<fonsinchen>because right now, for terminating passengers I use "going via" the same station you are looking at.
09:24<fonsinchen>That confusing.
09:24<KenjiE20>"Terminates" is the usual word for any service that stops and changes direction
09:25<dihedral>why at all mention them?
09:25<fonsinchen>dihedral, if you look at the planned flows you are very well interested in terminating cargo.
09:25<fonsinchen>because you want to know how much cargo is coming from where and where it is going.
09:25<fonsinchen>at least I want.
09:25<Singaporekid>50 passengers will be terminated at London?
09:25<dihedral>that sounds like a terrorist attack :-D
09:26<KenjiE20>the passengers themselves aren't the service they arrived on will
09:26<fonsinchen>So, is there a different word I could use for the passengers?
09:26<dihedral>the service is not terminated, as the service continues, the passengers just will not use it any longer :-P
09:26<KenjiE20>i.e. the 14:50 newc-ldn terminates at Kings cross
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09:26<dihedral>ended their journey :-P
09:27<fonsinchen>"ending their journey" is nice. Doesn't sound very "technical", though.
09:27<dihedral>they are passengers - most of them are not very technical :-P
09:27<fonsinchen>I'll also use it for other cargo.
09:28<fonsinchen>50 tons of coal ending their journey
09:28<dihedral>delivered - but that aint gonna work on people :-P
09:28<KenjiE20>'Final destination'?
09:28<dihedral>50 people delivered :-D
09:28<fonsinchen>yes, but "arrive" can also mean "and later take another train somewhere else"
09:28<dihedral>arrived. and arrived to continue to .....
09:29<dihedral>too much hassle
09:29<dihedral>you just pick up and drop off :-P
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09:29<fonsinchen>You think the difference between "arrive" and "going via" is enough distinction to make it clear to everyone?
09:29<Ammler>pax is just another kind of cargo
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09:30<Ammler>you don't care as players, if it is nice "speaking", do you?
09:30<fonsinchen>but you want to understand what it means.
09:30<KenjiE20>fon, it would probably depend on context
09:31<fonsinchen>And people are already confused by cargo going to an "unknown station", so I spending some thoughts on the wording.
09:31<fonsinchen>the context is a list of cargo
09:31<dihedral>people are already confused when it just comes to installing openttd or building a junction or ....
09:31<dihedral>nobody cares for such users :-D
09:32<fonsinchen>like in the screenshot here:
09:32<fonsinchen>I want to replace the text for cargo going "via" the same station you're looking at.
09:32<z-MaTRiX>nice, train having queue of terminating passengers
09:32<KenjiE20>yea, those make no sense to me at all :P
09:33<dihedral>suicide train :-P
09:33<z-MaTRiX>can we have a function ignoring railroad-line end, so i could make a maglev train jump into the ocean ?:)
09:33<FR^2>Hmm. :/ I'd like to program an AI, but the wiki pages don't tell me how to pack an AI, or where to place the files and such... Or I haven't found it yet. Any hints? Is there any "very, very basic" AI example that I could use as a template?
09:33<dihedral>z-MaTRiX, nope
09:34<dihedral>FR^2, you can download one from the content server :-P
09:34<dihedral>and just pick up from there
09:34<z-MaTRiX>heheh btw, citizens celebrate, first train arrives at coal-mine
09:34<FR^2>dihedral: Which one would you suggest?
09:35<FR^2>Hmm. Okay.
09:36<dihedral>you want coding examples
09:36<dihedral>not a base to modify
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09:39<Yexo>FR^2: <- that page states step for step what files you should create, and where
09:39<FR^2>Hmm. Not really, the examples are not the issue, I just don't know where to start, how that archive should be structured (info.nut and main.nut are mandatory, I assume - but I'm just guessing)
09:39<FR^2>Okay, I'll just read it through more carefully
09:39<Yexo>you only need info.nut and main.nut
09:40<Yexo>but you can use other files (and include them in main.nut) to organize your code
09:40<Yexo>and in general when working on your ai, you don't want to create a tar archive
09:40<FR^2>Good, that's a start.
09:43<+glx>planetmaker: ping
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09:45<planetmaker>glx: pong
09:45<+glx>I have a question about 2cc translation :)
09:45<planetmaker>ah :)
09:46<planetmaker>French is not taken yet :)
09:46<+glx>I need more info about "Metro Van"
09:46<+glx>I don't see exactly what it is
09:46<planetmaker>ohm... let me see, I don't know by heart. I think it's the wagons which can be attached to the metro trains
09:47<planetmaker>it's pax only wagons
09:48<FR^2>StreetTraffic1.1.0 is a good one ;)
09:49<planetmaker>yes. Just checked. That's the only wagon which is available for the metro tracks / trains
09:49<+glx>ok :)
09:49<planetmaker>120 PAX capacity
09:49<+glx>a page with name and sprites may be helpful ;)
09:50<planetmaker>not refittable.
09:50<planetmaker>he... good idea :) Lot of work :S
09:50<planetmaker>I'll make a ticket concerning that, though.
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09:50<Ammler>planetmaker: grf2html :-)
09:52<planetmaker> <-- @ glx
09:52<+glx>Ammler: but that gives too much info
09:52<planetmaker>has obviously not everything, though
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09:53<planetmaker>especially not the metro van :D
09:54<Ammler> <-- looks like a link, which shouldn't be published ;-)
09:55<planetmaker>haha :) Not sure, though. Why not?
09:55<Ammler>takes hours to build in the browser
09:56<planetmaker>hm... I should remember my GBit connection ;)
09:56<planetmaker>took not noticably long :P
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09:57<z-MaTRiX>F_ctp=4*pi^2*f^2*r*m | [f]=1/s && [r]=m && [m]=kg && [F_ctp]=N
09:57<dihedral>loaded fine for me too
09:57<Ammler>like Doxygen for grfs :-)
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10:00<planetmaker>got to go. I wish you all a nice Whitsun holiday :)
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10:04<+glx>planetmaker: you don't accept dcc ?
10:06<Ammler>glx: bouncer thas troubles with
10:07<+glx>I'll use another way then
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10:24<z-MaTRiX>some reading for the bored
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10:37<@Rubidium>z-MaTRiX: Uncyclopedia is much better for the bored (especially those that know physics and are bored)
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10:45<@Belugas>moreover, it is SUCH an exciting topic... and everyone is soooo interested to it...
10:54<Ammler>z-MaTRiX: ok, I read those, do you have more?
10:55-!-Ammler was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [JFGI...]
10:57<@Rubidium>Belugas: yeah, you
10:58<@Belugas>I'm a GI?
10:58*Belugas retracts his belly to GI proportions
10:59<@Rubidium>no JF Googles it ;)
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11:02*Belugas exhales
11:06<@Rubidium>that's close to your record, right?
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11:10<@Belugas>yeah ;)
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11:18<dihedral>Belugas: love that wiki page :-D
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11:44<@Belugas>what is fun with wiki, is that no 404 pages aret o be expected :)
11:45<@Rubidium> <- A page 'bout 404
11:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16459 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h): -Codechange: move definition of several cargopacket accessors to header file
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13:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: translators * r16460 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt luxembourgish.txt):
13:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-29 17:38:27
13:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 18 fixed, 6 changed by Chilli (24)
13:39<CIA-3>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 114 fixed, 252 changed by *jigo* (366)
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14:29<z-MaTRiX>hey, reloaded
14:31<frosch123>you reloaded? but why do I still remember that movie?
14:36<z-MaTRiX>movie you cannot forget?
14:36<z-MaTRiX>it was good probably
14:36<frosch123>yeah, the fourth part was better than the second and the third :p
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14:49<Powerek38>Hi! Is there any relation between NewGRF applied and possible breakdowns of the game?
14:50<Spizania>AdmiralAI is embarassing me
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14:50<Yexo>Powerek38: only if you change newgrfs in a running game
14:51<Yexo>if you didn't, please report it as a bug
14:51<z-MaTRiX>Spizania, why?:)
14:51<Powerek38>Yexo: the thing is I've got a new computer (the first one with Vista in my life) and I now have huge problems with opening saved games which didn't use to happen on my previous PC with XP
14:52<Powerek38>but I thought it's because of activating most NewGRF
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14:53<Yexo>what kind of problems do you have?
14:53<Spizania>it is slaughtering me profitwise
14:53<Spizania>its company value is 25 times mine
14:53<Spizania>and thats after it got knocked abck to teh starting blocks by crashing once
14:54<Yexo>sorry, I was asking Powerek38: what kind of problems do you have?
14:54<Powerek38>Yexo: when I load a game, it either takes very long or it makes the application stop responding just after I start to play (when I unpause it, as it's paused at first when loaded)
14:55<Yexo>some assumptions: 1. on your old computer, you had openttd 0.6.3
14:55<Yexo>2. On your new computer, you downloaded the latest stable, which is 0.7.0
14:55<Yexo>3. You have downloaded NoCab through the ingame content-download system
14:55<Powerek38>Yexo: yeah, but I mean saved games from 0.7.0, save already on this PC
14:55<Powerek38>Yexo: yes, I did download it that way
14:56<Yexo>which AIs are running in the savegames you have trouble loading?
14:56<Powerek38>Yexo: I think NoCab (in two versions), Admiral and Convoy
14:56<Yexo>then try removing nocab
14:56<Yexo>see if that helps
14:57<Powerek38>ok, so I need to manually turn it off in AI menu and then try to start a new game which should be loading all right after saving, is that right?
14:59<Yexo>yes, or just remove the nocab tar files then load an old savegame
15:00<Powerek38>ok, thanks for this... I've HP Pavilion with 3GB of RAM, so I guess it's not a weak computer for OTTD, is it?
15:00<Yexo>no, it's just that nocab takes very long to load (at least older versions of it)
15:01<Yexo>the problem is fixed in more recent openttd versions
15:01<Yexo>so you can also download a nightly
15:04<Powerek38>Ok, downloading the latest nightly right now... thanks for your help!
15:07<Spizania>im still on straight 0.7.0
15:07<Spizania>the only patch I especially want is the more height levels one
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15:16<Spizania>um, I have a bug to report, its not a crash bush, its just wierd
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15:18<Yexo>Spizania: are you going to tell us what it was?
15:18<Yexo>or are you waiting for the problem to fix itself
15:18<@Rubidium>Yexo: he wants to be like mb
15:19<Spizania>Arctic map, a farm closed a long time ago
15:19<Spizania>all the fields dissapeared except two tiles
15:19<Spizania>they appear to be acting like farm fields do when theres a farm nearby
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15:26<Spizania>any ideas?
15:27<Yexo>unless you can reproduce it
15:27<Yexo>so have a savegame where there farm is still there, including instructions like: wait untill .. date, then the farm disappears but the farms don't
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15:56<sperber>hi there
15:57<Yexo>hello sperber
15:57<sperber>i wonther - is there a way to reduce the ingame speed? (so not about 5min/month but maybe 10 times as much...)
15:58<Yexo>not without patching your game
15:58<Prof_Frink>Run a 2048x2048 map on an old computer?
15:59<sperber>that patch would also influence the speed of any kind of transportations, right?
15:59<Yexo>search for the daylength patch
15:59<sperber>k, thx
16:01<sperber>is that patch i suppose that patch is necessary on all clients, right?
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16:35<Spizania>Yexo: I have a savegame where the farm exists I believe, but im not exactly sure when it dissapeared
16:36<Alberth>fast forward the game
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16:37<Spizania>right, and see if it happens every time rather than just a one off?
16:38<Alberth>and preferably save a game just before the event
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16:45<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:46<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... konversation-1.2alpha2... am i experiment-friendly enough?
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17:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's less tricky than a) upgrading Xorg or b) upgrading ATI drivers
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i can pretty safely assume that :p
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>but i should look out that i have a backup of the old 1.1 rpm
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>inst-source only has 1.0.1
17:11<@Rubidium>and well, there are quite a few alternatives to konversation
17:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16461 /trunk/bin/data/opntitle.dat: -Fix [FS#2929]: add some valid orders so the trains leave the depot again...
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>is kde 4.2 any good meanwhile?
17:22<@Rubidium>no idea
17:22<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: meanwhile...
17:22<@Rubidium>kdevelop 3.5.4 sucks on my machine
17:22<@Rubidium>sucks as in: quite unuseable
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17:23<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: i mean is it a significant improvement over my last try at 4.0 and no major stepback from 3.5
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17:23<Sacro>oh, 4.2 is quite nice
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>i tried amarok 2 a few months ago, and i couldn't get it to play music
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>which might be some crippeling on suse's side, but it made me give up once again
17:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16462 /trunk/ -Change [FS#2930]: use a safer way to detect the hash of a mercurial repository (planetmaker)
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18:09<dihedral> <- LOL @ the number of downloads :-P
18:09<frosch123>someone cheated :p
18:10<frosch123>though I am quite disappointed that you did not call it "better vehicle smoke" :p
18:10<dihedral>i wanted to be confusing :-P
18:10<dihedral>could have called it 'performance decrease smoke generator'
18:11<frosch123>maybe "better" would also need steam smoke :p
18:11<dihedral>did you ever see that patch?
18:11<dihedral>i mean - the checks it performs?
18:11<dihedral>for every huff and puff?
18:11<dihedral>it's insane
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>i must admit, i have never noticed diesel smoke in ottd
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>it was much more common in TT
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>when accelerating and on slopes
18:13<z-MaTRiX>hi Eddi|zuHause
18:14<z-MaTRiX>diesels generate little smoke no?
18:14*Eddi|zuHause sets mode +useless_highlight
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, really, it's annoying.
18:15<z-MaTRiX>yeah sure there are useless highlights
18:16<@Belugas>i guess i shall go home now
18:16*Belugas waves bye bye
18:16<z-MaTRiX>what for?
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18:17<@Belugas>1) eat 2) see my kid and wife 3) rest 4) tv and decompress 5) guitar playing
18:17<@Belugas>enough for you?
18:17*Belugas is now officially gone
18:18<z-MaTRiX>ok bye <;
18:28<dihedral>my bed's shouting my name too - night
18:28<Nite_Owl>later Belugas & dihedral
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18:41<Chruker>heh, what a detour to find a 0.6.3 download
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18:42<Yexo>why would you want that? Plus all versions are downloadable from
18:42<Chruker>... only to find it wont install because I got 0.7.0
18:43<Yexo>download the zip and extract it
18:43<Yexo>no need for the installer
18:43<Chruker>I wanted to see in details how the ai was constructing
18:44<Chruker>the isnt listed in the links page
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>because it's a page for insiders :)
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19:15<Nite_Owl>need to feed - be back later
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19:40*Chruker hides from the hungry owl
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19:58<theholyduck>soo i was trying to compile on linux
19:58<theholyduck>checking 3rdparty... NOT FOUND
19:58<theholyduck>ERROR: please make sure you have src/3rdparty/squirrel
19:58<theholyduck>i then try to checkout the svn it gives me for that
19:59<theholyduck>but it says it doesnt exist
19:59<theholyduck>this happens under configure that is
19:59<Yexo>try "svn up" then configure again
19:59<theholyduck>but i need a specific revision
19:59<theholyduck>wichis why did svn co -r
19:59<Yexo>which one?
20:00<theholyduck>oh wait
20:00<Yexo>try "svn up" first to get the latest, try if that works
20:00<theholyduck>silly me
20:00<theholyduck>i had 2 openttd src dirs
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20:00<theholyduck>and i cded into the bugged one
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20:00<theholyduck>now it works
20:00<Yexo>ok, good :)
20:01<theholyduck>i really should clean up ~/usr/src
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20:03<theholyduck>meh, i forgot to do make -j4 ;(
20:03*theholyduck hates waiting for compiles to finnish
20:03<Yexo>you can ust interrupt make with ctrl_c and start it again with -j4
20:04<theholyduck>Yexo, well yeah, but i fear that 1 day, im going to wreak my box doing that :P
20:04<Yexo>what could go wrong with that?
20:04<theholyduck>also i'm used to compiling mplayer, wich wll stab you in the face at the slightest provocation
20:04<theholyduck>basicly i'm afraid of doing anything that might in any small way make the compiler hate me
20:05<theholyduck>i COULD make clean and restart
20:05<theholyduck>but, effort
20:05<theholyduck>its done now anyway
20:05<Yexo>why would you do make clean?
20:05<theholyduck>Yexo, paranoia and suprestition mostly
20:05<theholyduck>mplayer has runined me
20:05<Yexo>well, feel free
20:06<theholyduck>i allready finnished the single threaded compile though
20:06<theholyduck>openttd is tiiiny
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20:45<theholyduck>for the timeees, they are a-changiing
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21:47<exi_>i'v got a question regarding the multiplayer/online play
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's nice for you
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>would you be so kind as to share the question, so everybody could have one?
21:48<exi_>Eddi|zuHause: nicht gleich so unfreundlich :)
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>^ topic
21:50<exi_>ok, my problem is, i'm hosting a game, all forwardings are set properly, my friend is able to connect, but while sharing the savegame openttd only uses 30kb/s, which is very slow
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21:51<Eddi|zuHause>so, there's a bandwidth limit that you don't know about?
21:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's 98% your router's fault, and openttd has nothing to do with it
21:52<exi_>hmm, no
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21:53<exi_>iv set many routes, also to our internal server and usually except openttd everything counld upload at 300kb/s
21:53<exi_>it's just openttd that's acting strange
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>i still say it's just correlation, not causality
21:56<exi_>so what do you suggest?
21:56<exi_>glx: no, gigabit ethernet
21:57<exi_>total traffic, 15kb/s inbound, 25kb/s outbound
21:57<exi_>so, nearly nothing
21:57<+glx>dunno then
21:58<+glx>did you try sending a file to your friend ?
21:59<Aali>doesn't ottd use UDP for file transfers?
22:00<Aali>UDP could very well suck balls and you would still see good performance everywhere else
22:00<+glx>no it's TCP
22:02<+glx>maybe it's just an overloaded route
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>UDP is only for querying servers
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>not for ingame communication
22:05<exi_>glx: no, my upload to other hosts via sftp is 300kb/s
22:05<exi_>but his download speed is also ~80kb/s from other hosts
22:05<exi_>thats kind of weard
22:06<exi_>and my upload over exactly this forward rule to another host is also 300kb/s
22:07<exi_>ok, my friend is checking his connection...
22:08<exi_>lets see what happens
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22:32<@Belugas>apparently, it works hehe
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22:34<exi_>hmm, i'm not in the mood of investigating this any further today
22:34<exi_>so thanks for the try, bye
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22:37*Belugas is on the mood for...
22:37<@Belugas>sleeping, maybe
22:38<Eddi|zuHause>good night ;)
22:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's getting light over here, i should go to bed, too ;)
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---Logclosed Sat May 30 00:00:25 2009