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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-03

---Logopened Wed Jun 03 00:00:38 2009
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03:25<@petern>is that so
03:25<dihedral>here it is, yes
03:27<dihedral>Xaroth, your 'autottd' version makes me smirk :-)
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03:32<Xaroth>it does?
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03:33<Xaroth>did a whole rewrite, so figured staying in the 1 series would be stupid
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03:43<dihedral>Xaroth, the topic says version :-D
03:46<planetmaker>andythenorth, here?
03:47<dihedral>hello planetmaker
03:48<planetmaker>hey dihedral :)
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05:16<Xaroth>dihedral: release, major, minor, revision .. or something
05:16<Xaroth>or major minor build revion, whatever :P
05:17<Xaroth>last number shows the sourceforge revision
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05:20<Xaroth>i must admit that i did an extra commit just to make sure it was tho.. but that was just because i was being in a funny mood
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05:25<dihedral>cute :-P
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07:20<fonsinchen>Cargodist is built by the compile farm now. You can download lots of different binaries from this place:
07:20<fonsinchen>Thanks TrueBrain for compiling, Ammler for hosting, Yexo for saying OK.
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07:55<Chruker>heh, what happens if a ship and the submarine 'collides'?
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08:00<planetmaker>they don't.
08:00<planetmaker>or have you seen two ships collide?
08:00<Chruker>aww, I hope the ship would sink
08:01<planetmaker>I haven't played for long with desasters, though.
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08:04<@petern>what about disasters?
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08:16<dihedral>planetmaker, the question was what happens IF they collide, not DO they collide :-P
08:18<planetmaker>ex falso quot libet :)
08:21<planetmaker>not even then... my latin gets rusty :( : *quodlibet
08:22<planetmaker>in other words: whatever you like may be your answer :)
08:28<dihedral>the word 'may' disturbs me :-P
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08:29<planetmaker>yes. It's not true anymore this month :P
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08:57<SinHarvest>Hmmmmm I backed myself into a stupid corner...
08:58<SinHarvest>I have a tram track running into a building and the track ends at the building instead of having the curved/roundabout ending
08:58<SinHarvest>I could just remove it but a tram is actually on the track and I can't get it to reverse either XD
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09:07*Belugas wishes good to all
09:07<@Belugas>and to the others too
09:09<@Belugas>good +day.. of course...
09:09*Belugas runs for coffee
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09:19<dihedral>i hate migrating cvs 2 svn
09:19<dihedral>i cannot see it any longer
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09:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16508 /branches/0.7/ (10 files in 9 dirs):
09:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
09:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Base graphics names must be unique, so do not add duplicates (r16503)
09:34<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] When an AI was suspended while in a function called (indirectly) via call/acall/pcall OpenTTD crashed. Fix this by disallowing AIs to be suspended while called via call/acall/pcall [FS#2935] (r16502)
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09:47<@Rubidium>yup, ping timeouts are a standard error
09:50<planetmaker>pong... ;)
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10:00<andythenorth>FIRS thread: "[quote="***"]Someone really ought to make some awesome isometric axis flipper rotator cropper tool for image editing.[/quote]....guess the quote anyone :)
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10:01<@Rubidium>andythenorth: You ?
10:02<andythenorth>ahem. guess again? you might be guessing forever
10:03<@Rubidium>nope, I'm only limited to about 2**48 options, which is finite not infinite
10:04<andythenorth>how many kinds of infinity are there by the way? It's > 1 apparently
10:05<@Rubidium>it's infinite
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10:05<@Rubidium>∞ + 1 = ∞
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10:13<planetmaker>andythenorth, two kinds: countable and uncountable
10:13<z-MaTRiX>are you sure?
10:14<z-MaTRiX>1/∞=0 ?
10:15<planetmaker>n / oo = 0 for all n except n = +/- oo
10:15<planetmaker>and n not complex
10:15<planetmaker>but even then.
10:15<theholyduck>9000*∞ ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!
10:15<theholyduck>or not
10:15<theholyduck>9001 rather
10:16<theholyduck>but yeah, 9000*∞ = ∞
10:16<theholyduck>i guess
10:16<planetmaker>I don't need to guess :)
10:16<z-MaTRiX>ok so 1=9000
10:16<planetmaker>oo / oo is not defined
10:16<dihedral>oh boy
10:17<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but you just defined it
10:17<planetmaker>you can only operate with oo as a limit
10:17<planetmaker>Rubidium, ?
10:18<@Rubidium>"oo / oo" = "not defined" is a definition
10:20<planetmaker>what's the value of lim x->0 sin(1/x) ?
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10:21<planetmaker>Rubidium, technically I didn't put an equation sign there.
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10:27<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> how many kinds of infinity are there by the way? It's > 1 apparently <- there are countably infinitely many cardinality-numbers (aleph 1 == countable infinity, aleph 2 = uncountable infinity, then it goes on with aleph_3, aleph_4 and so on)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>but it is unproven whether these are all kinds of infinity
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10:28<Eddi|zuHause>aleph_{n+1} = 2^aleph_n
10:29<dihedral>so after aleph 2 they all have an underscore?
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>if a set X has cardinality aleph_n, then the set of subsets of X has cardinality aleph_{n+1}
10:29<dihedral>my word Eddi|zuHause, that line has so much inconsistency :-P
10:29<andythenorth>does any of this help with 'when will it be done?'
10:30<dihedral>yes, it gives you something to do during the time you have to wait
10:30<andythenorth>any idea how long we'll all be waiting?
10:30<z-MaTRiX>1/∞=0 => 0*∞=1 ?
10:31<dihedral>andythenorth, you ask really silly questions
10:31<dihedral>why dont you open a thread in the forums for that?
10:31<dihedral>perhaps SirXavius has something to say to that
10:31<dihedral>ever probably has something to say too :-D
10:31<andythenorth>and the prize for guessing the quote above goes to dihedral (by default)
10:32<@Rubidium>does 1*0=0 => 0/0 = 1?
10:32<dihedral>andythenorth, where?
10:32<dihedral>where is the bus?
10:32<andythenorth>[url=]Subject: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)[/url]
10:33<andythenorth>(oops forgot to trim sorry)
10:33<dihedral>where is the bus with the people inside it who want to know?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>they are just arriving at hilbert's hotel
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10:33<Eddi|zuHause>and the hotel manager is busy reorganizing the rooms
10:34<andythenorth>I wonder if my pixels will have moved themselves around into the right shapes while I'm reading this?
10:34<andythenorth>...nope they didn'. I'd better draw something I guess.
10:34<dihedral>you have pixels in other shapes than square?
10:34<andythenorth>does 'configurations' work better? 'arrangement'? 'disbursement'??
10:35<dihedral>why dont you go for a walk? walk across the motorway to enjoy the sunset :-P
10:35<dihedral>just kidding andythenorth
10:36<andythenorth>I'm finishing a fishing harbour. It has versions for NW-SE and SW-NE shores. Does it *need* versions for other shores? It's only about 64 pixels different, but I've found 10 ways to avoid drawing the bloody things so far :)
10:37<@Rubidium>always... more is better, ain't it?
10:38<theholyduck>dihedral, well certain monitors/videos have non square pixels
10:38<theholyduck>dvds for example
10:38*dihedral clicks another nick to the ignore list
10:38<andythenorth>Too much drawing industries probably. Maybe I should draw a bulldozer. Maybe I don't have enough yet (10 at the last count)
10:38<theholyduck>hmm, did i really deserve that?
10:39<dihedral>that list nearly has more patterns than this channel users :-D
10:39<theholyduck>also, to my defense, i was just talking in #Mplayer :P
10:39<andythenorth>theholyduck: not if we were discussing video post-production, but as we're not...seems fair :) Hey, on another day, you might have been a great help
10:40<dihedral>theholyduck, you aint the lua duck are you?
10:40<theholyduck>dihedral, no
10:40<theholyduck>i've been the holyduck for.... 13 years now?
10:40<dihedral>are you any older than that?
10:40<theholyduck>5 :P
10:41<theholyduck>its originally a norwegian joke i made up
10:42<theholyduck>the english version took form during a quake marathon, for reasons i cant remember
10:42<andythenorth>btw, what's the current status of roadtypes?
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: did i understand your plan for the harbour correctly, it can produce fish itself, and it can be used as a transfer station for ships coming from fishing grounds?
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10:44<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, well its own prodction would be what local fishers bring in?
10:44<theholyduck>thats how harbors/fish reciving plants work over here
10:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: might be better answered on forums...bloody long discussion already (but more after the break)
10:44<andythenorth>*no* fishing ground in FIRS
10:44<andythenorth>harbour produces fish
10:45<andythenorth>but contains a dock for various good reasons
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>problem with a builtin dock would be that you can't join it with a trainstation or somesuch
10:46<andythenorth>ah that would be a problem. Hadn't thought of that (or tested it) :(
10:47<andythenorth>join stations doesn't work? Let me just test (science!)
10:48<z-MaTRiX>someone have nice similar pages?
10:48<theholyduck>i'm tempted to put your_mom_(number)
10:48<theholyduck>but no
10:49<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you're very correct. Oh :(
10:49<theholyduck>andythenorth, good reasons for a dock == eyecandy? :P
10:49<theholyduck>makes building pretty docklands easier i guess
10:50<andythenorth>theholyduck: yes, would make for a better looking harbour easily. But I designed the layout to allow a default dock to be built next to it anyway.
10:50<andythenorth>including the dock just reduces complexity for players
10:50<theholyduck>andythenorth, any way you could make it buildable on tiles that are at 0 height?
10:51<theholyduck>so it integrates better with how most sane people build eyecandy-docks ?
10:51<andythenorth> player doesn't own the built in station at the industry, I guess it's just a simple *no* to ever making it possible to use join stations on this?
10:51<andythenorth>theholyduck: I don't follow - can you do a screenie or something?
10:52*theholyduck loads a save :P
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there are two solutions to the dilemma. a) making sure infrastructure sharing allows joining stations of different players, and b) allowing cargo to "walk" between adjacent stations when cargodest is enabled
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>both might not come at all...
10:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: oh well. It was a nice idea, but there are bigger fish to fry. Ahem.
10:54<andythenorth>(b) would be cool.
10:54<planetmaker>don't talk too much of food please. I'm getting hungry.
10:54<andythenorth>I just had a nice avacado and mozarella salad
10:54<andythenorth>does that help?
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>that does not sound tasty...
10:55<planetmaker>unfortunately not. But mozarella salat is one of my favourites... :S
10:56<@Rubidium>andythenorth: ofcourse it helps getting him hungry
10:56<andythenorth>btw, after banging my head on economy questions last night, someone (here again) explained Simutrans economy to me. But let's not discuss that here :P
10:57<andythenorth>that someone seems to be everywher
10:58<theholyduck>andythenorth, seems i dont have the save, i'll make a nice simple example
10:58<andythenorth>okey dokey
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11:32<andythenorth>nice. I take it that's a mockup, unless I've missed the 'build rail stations on water' patch?? :O
11:33<theholyduck>andythenorth, you create channels on open seas
11:33<theholyduck>then delete the ground in between them
11:33<theholyduck>instant ground at level 0
11:33<theholyduck>looks MUCH better when building elaborate docks
11:33<theholyduck>in the previous game i played, we made 5 laaarge docks like that
11:34<theholyduck>but you still need a lvl 1 to place the dock on
11:34<theholyduck>its hugely expensive sure
11:34<theholyduck>but think of it as land-reclamation
11:35<theholyduck>that dock probaly took. 300- or so k to build
11:36<planetmaker>nice dock :)
11:37<theholyduck>planetmaker, its just a quickie, we built a gigantic one with mooving cars and stuff in the last openttdcoop game
11:37<andythenorth>(playing) hey that is probably the most pretty and spectacular hack of construction I've seen :)
11:37<andythenorth>but I can't help with the dock construction problem I'm afraid :(
11:37<planetmaker>oh :) I missed out on that, theholyduck
11:38<theholyduck>planetmaker, we built 5 docks actually
11:38<theholyduck>but the grandest one had actual life
11:38<theholyduck>too bad the game didnt use the random eye-candy cars newgrf
11:38<planetmaker>hehe... I remember building some of these in the I think PSG 80...90 range
11:38<theholyduck>or even a boat one
11:38<planetmaker>there are not many boat newgrfs.
11:39<theholyduck>true, but the base boats just look so booring when you put them there for eyecandy
11:39<andythenorth>some day there will be new boats. that's almost a promise
11:39<planetmaker>hm... depends IMO
11:39<planetmaker>but there are nicer boats then the defaults, yes.
11:40<planetmaker>theholyduck, you can always make a nice map and choose appropriate newgrfs (provided they're on bananas or in our grfpack)
11:40<theholyduck>planetmaker, was thinking of doing that
11:40<theholyduck>i'm almost done with my handcrafted norway scenario
11:40<planetmaker>and if you make it a good scenario (e.g. give it a theme, a purpose) it will help to direct the plans which are going to be made.
11:41<theholyduck>planetmaker, and yeah, working on that aswell
11:41<theholyduck>currently almost done handcrafting some glorious mountains
11:41<theholyduck>and delicious valleys
11:41<planetmaker>hmpf. I really should go and make holidays there for real.
11:41<theholyduck>planetmaker, the current game is eye killing toyland ;(
11:42<theholyduck>seriously, it gives me a headache
11:42<planetmaker>I know :)
11:42<planetmaker>once in a while doesn't hurt, IMO
11:42<planetmaker>like one toyland every 40 or 50 games :P
11:42<theholyduck>except for the direct physical pain ovciously?
11:43<andythenorth>(drawing) blooody isometric grid
11:44<planetmaker>theholyduck, I'd like to see the comic style as a nice replacement for toyland :)
11:44<planetmaker>or alternative industries for toyland so that the Mars conversion became a bit more sensible
11:48<elmz>comic style?
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11:50<@Rubidium>toyland is there to show the game IS NOT about reality!
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11:51<Cryloud>hi guys
11:51<planetmaker>just like comic style would :)
11:52<Cryloud>i have a question for develop any 32bpp graphics, my english suxx a bit sry and i didnt found what i search
11:52<Cryloud>i use autodesk xsi like 1 year, i see this graphics are renders from a specific angle right ?
11:54<Cryloud>hmm =)
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>the important thing about renders is, that isometric view is not an actual viewing angle, it's a parallel projection
11:54<planetmaker>yes. they are.
11:55<Cryloud>hmm ok
11:55<Cryloud>what angel is it
11:55<planetmaker>see the development wiki :P
11:55<Cryloud>i watched it, nothing about angel there = /
11:55<Cryloud>or im blind
11:55<planetmaker>like 32 pixels right, 16 up.
11:55<Cryloud>yeah but, when i render it
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>and it's not 30° (=arcsin(1/2)), but arctan(1/2)
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>@calc arctan(1/2)
11:57<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: 'arctan' is not a defined function.
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(1/2)
11:57<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.463647609001
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(1/2)/Pi*180
11:57<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 26.5650511771
11:57<Cryloud>ah one moment i see any angle in the wiki = )
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>there, 26.5°
11:57<Cryloud>im rly blind ;o
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>@calc asin(1/2)/Pi*180
11:58<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 30
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11:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16509 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqapi.cpp: -Fix (r16502): All Sleep/DoCommand calls failed instead of only those via a call/acall/pcall function
12:01<Cryloud>hey eddi have u 5 minutes for me ?
12:01<Cryloud>i see u are german = )
12:02<@Belugas>mmh... and i see that u = you
12:02<@petern>yeah, it's not true isometric
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>2 of your 5 minutes are already over...
12:04<Cryloud>i mean in convo ...
12:11<theholyduck>Cryloud, really, the SANEST thing for xsi in terms of rendering it right
12:11<theholyduck>as i've found
12:11<theholyduck>is just exporting it and importing it into blender
12:11<theholyduck>and then use the stuff from blender
12:11<theholyduck>to texture and what not it propperly
12:12<theholyduck>using .obj or something else
12:12<Cryloud>i was trying blender 5 months ago but ... its still not my software
12:12<theholyduck>me neither
12:12<theholyduck>wich is why i did the modeling and uv-mapping
12:12<theholyduck>in xsi
12:12<theholyduck>wich i KNOW :P
12:12<theholyduck>and then did the various other bits in render with some guidance
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12:12<theholyduck>thats how i've done stuff for other projects that needed blender stuff
12:13<theholyduck>*other bits and render in blender
12:13<andythenorth>drawn a slipway for the fishing harbour. might have pixel madness
12:13<Cryloud>i cant any in blender
12:13<theholyduck>Cryloud, tutorials and people online can generally help you
12:13<theholyduck>its not IMPOSSIBLE to use, just not as intuative as xsi
12:13<Cryloud>yeah ansd the user interface = horrible ...
12:14<theholyduck>in xsi every thing is on the logical key, and every movement with your mouse does exactly what you'd EXPECt it to do
12:14<Cryloud>and the context menu is really fine
12:14<theholyduck>where as i found navigating the camera in blender
12:14<theholyduck>is a bit like trying to box
12:14<theholyduck>with a blindfold
12:14<theholyduck>while drunk
12:15<theholyduck>i could never get it to do what i WANTED it to do
12:17<theholyduck>but still, when you want to work with a open source project, blender is really the way to go for the last step
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12:28<Cryloud>any here where works with blender for 32bpp ?
12:29*Belugas hates stuff made by blender and such. too realistic looking
12:29<Cryloud>the problem is, i mean nothing is here where can help me for xsi
12:31<Cryloud>for example : is this usefull for ingame when textures are done for it ?
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12:33<@Belugas>not in my games, for sure. You should try the blender thread on the forums, take note
12:38<Cryloud>ok ty guys
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14:44<@Rubidium> not worth our effort
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14:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16510 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (8 files): -Doc: silence some (AI) doxygen warnings by adding comments about the appropriate things.
14:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16511 /branches/0.7/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
14:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
14:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Doc: [NoAI] Silence some (AI) doxygen warnings by adding comments about the appropriate things (r16510)
14:55<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] All Sleep/DoCommand calls failed instead of only those via a call/acall/pcall function (r16509)
15:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16512 /tags/0.7.1-RC3/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.1-RC3; better be safe than sorry. Especially because some bugs that crash OpenTTD itself are fixed.
15:03<dihedral>i love seing a revision being born :-)
15:03<dihedral>i mean a release
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15:07*Prof_Frink points an op at the topic
15:07<Prof_Frink>petern! NewTopic!
15:07<@Rubidium>what's the point when there're no binaries yet?
15:08<Ammler>Rubidium: what are you doing different for RC then full release?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>you could put pressure on the compile farm to release them faster because of higher demand that way
15:09<Ammler>does it still have asserts?
15:10<@Rubidium>Ammler: yes and yes
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15:11<dihedral>anything but stable releases are compiled with asserts, iirc
15:11<@Rubidium>well, I almost released a RC with completely broken AI this afternoon. Luckily we have 'make regression' ;)
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15:13<Ammler>I was just wondering, why you release so many RCs for a minor update
15:13<capleton>hi guys, anyone know how to get the music from TTDX to work in openttd?
15:14<Ammler>capleton: read the readme
15:14<@Rubidium>Ammler: why do you think we do it?
15:14<capleton>yeah i just read it from top to bottom
15:14<capleton>wasn't that much covered about the music issue, allthough i tried what was said about the music in it
15:14<capleton>i just get the effects working and not the tunes :/
15:14<Ammler>well, the asserts explains
15:15<+glx>capleton: OS?
15:16-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.0, 0.7.1-RC3 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only :D
15:16<Ammler>capleton: that was answer to rubi,
15:16<capleton>im on windows, i run it in debian aswell but i ain't got that problem there
15:16<@Rubidium>Ammler: any idea how many people test the 0.7 branch?
15:16<capleton>Ammler: ah okey
15:16<@petern>oh, no binaries yet
15:16<@petern>never mind :p
15:16<+glx>usually it's the opposite
15:16<+glx>it's harder to get music on windows than on linux
15:17<capleton>crap, i had it working on windows when i installed it i think, but now it doesn't :/
15:17<+glx>it's harder to get music on linux than on windows
15:17<+glx>(forget my first sentence ;) )
15:17<dihedral>Rubidium: does the 0.7 branch have 'nightlies' after a backport
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15:17<capleton>also, on a complete other issue, how can i contribute with my own grf files?
15:18<capleton>is there some grf extractor for the sprites?
15:18<capleton>guess i should browse the forums maybe :P
15:18<dihedral>the forums have a search featuer, as does the web - we commonly refer to it as 'google'
15:19<Ammler>Rubidium: 3?
15:19<capleton>hehe thanks.
15:19<SxeDag>Q: I've got a version of OTT and it seems the AI is hopeless. The computer tycoons goes bankrupt within years. I suspected that it had to do with me changing default settings. anyone know what could be wrong? or is the game this easy?
15:20<Ammler>Q: version?
15:21<dihedral>SxeDag: when was the last time you visited
15:21<SxeDag>couple of years ago
15:21<SxeDag>lol,dont laugh
15:21<@Rubidium>Ammler: that's probably the overestimation of the year
15:21<Ammler>did 0.4.7 already have "forbid 90deg curves"?
15:21<@Rubidium>Ammler: yes
15:22<Ammler>SxeDag: then that might be your issue :-)
15:22<SxeDag>is there new versions with better AI?
15:22<SxeDag>as i cant play network all the time it really sucks to play vs sucky comp
15:22<Ammler>SxeDag: visit the homepage :-)
15:23<dihedral>yes, visit the homepage
15:23<dihedral>you might be a little shocked but that's ok
15:23<Ammler>Rubidium: that is why I would just release them as stable ;-)
15:23<dihedral>Ammler: that is why you are not a dev :-D
15:24<@Rubidium>Ammler: the fixes are usually too complex and the difference with too big to just 'go' for it
15:24<@Rubidium>remember the "bridges don't work at all" RC?
15:24<dihedral>uh :-)
15:24<+glx>new version doesn't have AI (but you can download user made AIs)
15:24<+glx>and some of them are very good
15:25<dihedral>or make your own ai
15:25<@Rubidium>Ammler: there was no need to hurry to fix it and release another stable just because the stable was horribly broken
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15:25<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:26<theholyduck_>also, YAY i got myself a new shipment of sugar
15:26*theholyduck_ picks a nice box of earl grey leafs
15:27<Nite_Owl>Hello theholyduck
15:27<dihedral>hoo hoo
15:27<Nite_Owl>Hello dihedral
15:27<@Rubidium>hmm... using your CPU to boil the water?
15:27<dihedral>theholyduck_: you are really annoying!
15:27<theholyduck_>dihedral, i am?
15:27<Prof_Frink>theholyduck_: What does a delivery of sugar have to do with tea?
15:27<dihedral>just to answer your question from earlier on if you deserve being on that ignore list: YES
15:27<theholyduck_>Prof_Frink, i'm one of those suggar addicted junkies
15:27<Nite_Owl>sweet tea
15:27<theholyduck_>Prof_Frink, i USED to be able to drink tea without sugar
15:28<theholyduck_>but now i cant :AP
15:28<Prof_Frink>Ah. I'm one of those tea addicted junkies.
15:28<theholyduck_>thus i need mah sugar
15:28<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: he drinks sugar with some tea
15:28<Prof_Frink>Also known as "English".
15:28<theholyduck_>Rubidium, well 2 tea spoons for a gigantic cup
15:28<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> remember the "bridges don't work at all" RC? <- i remember the "trains do not find paths out of depots" release :p
15:28<theholyduck_>not so much as it really spoils the taste
15:28<Ammler>oh, my Harddisk makes some suspicius sounds...
15:28<Prof_Frink>Time to test your backups
15:29*dihedral wonders where mibbit has it's ignore list
15:29<Ammler>yes :-)
15:29<theholyduck_>dihedral, :P
15:29<theholyduck_>dihedral, so i went from on your ignore, to off , to on again?
15:29*dihedral found it
15:29<@Rubidium>theholyduck_: only because you changed your nickname
15:29<theholyduck_>i didnt
15:29<theholyduck_>xchat did
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15:29<Ammler>hmm, silent again, but I should order a new maybe.
15:29<dihedral>theholyduck_: i use more than one client
15:30<dihedral>thanks that makes it easier
15:30<@Rubidium>Ammler: can't Apple send you one for free?
15:30<KenjiE20>heh, Ammler, mine sounds like it stalls on it's first cold boot of the day
15:30<KenjiE20>and has been for about 6 months :P
15:30<Ammler>Rubidium: hehe, you think I have a Mac.
15:30<@Rubidium>stop hammering the svn repository... you're delaying the binaries ;)
15:31<theholyduck>if one of my drives started making clicking sounds, i'd go paranoid
15:31<@Rubidium>doesn't all of OTTDC have one?
15:31<theholyduck>i use a 8 drive LVM array
15:31<theholyduck>no raid
15:31<theholyduck>also known as the kamikaze
15:31<@Rubidium>sounds raid0-ish
15:31<Ammler>only the better members
15:31<dihedral>oh - it would have worked with click click
15:31<dihedral>what a bummer
15:31<theholyduck>Rubidium, its like raid0 with better partitioning
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>KenjiE20: solution: do not cold boot :p
15:31<theholyduck>Rubidium, and general betterness
15:32<theholyduck>Rubidium, but still, its not exactly the saftest drive setup if you're worried about data loss
15:32<@Rubidium>raid0 should never have been called that way; it gives an unwanted feeling of data security
15:32<KenjiE20>well I know which drive it is, and all that's on it is the OS's and the FAT32 mydocs, which gets a nightly backup
15:32<KenjiE20>so I'm covered
15:32<theholyduck>Rubidium, oh and then you got the fact that i run xfs as the filesystem
15:33<theholyduck>Rubidium, aka, the filesystem that can loose files if power cuts
15:33<@Rubidium>what FS can't?
15:33<theholyduck>Rubidium, but xfs REALLY can :P
15:33<theholyduck>it doesnt actually write the data
15:33<theholyduck>its ment to be used on servers with 2 powersupplys and ups's on both
15:34<planetmaker>Rubidium, afaik I'm the only ottdc mac person :)
15:35<Ammler>hmm, no mäh isn't :P
15:36<Ammler>mäh would use gentoo
15:36<planetmaker>lol :)
15:36<@Rubidium>and I'm probably the only one that can build half of a univeral binary with SDK 2.5 and the other half with SDK 3.1.2 ;)
15:36<@Rubidium>without effort
15:37<frosch123>Ammler: "moo", not "mäh"
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15:37<planetmaker>Rubidium, I'll not doubt that :)#
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>man... our current government makes me go totally paranoid
15:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: government? where?
15:38<theholyduck>Rubidium, viva la freestate christiania?
15:38<@Rubidium>isn't everything governed by private banks?
15:38<@Rubidium>like the FED and ECB?
15:38<Eddi|zuHause> <- just read things like this...
15:39<theholyduck>i dont read german
15:39<theholyduck>also known as norwegian for angry men
15:39<Nite_Owl>planetmaker: look to the Lobster for a fellow Mac-ian
15:40<SxeDag>Q: what is the nightly DL option?
15:40<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: European Central Bank
15:40<theholyduck>SxeDag, last nights latest revision
15:40<theholyduck>developement snapshot is another word for it
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>"we need the possibility for secret computer observation" "reason: people encrypt their data and don't tell us the passwords" ... "reason: we overlook stuff like USB sticks when doing a regular search"
15:40<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: England and wales Cricket Board.
15:40<SxeDag>whats the standard for server play? doesnt everyone need the same version?
15:41<theholyduck>SxeDag, well most people use 0.7.0 for now
15:41<theholyduck>but there are a cople of servers that run the latest nightly
15:41<frosch123>SxeDag: <- tells you what is being used
15:41<SxeDag>cool, thanks
15:42<frosch123>if you want to play nighlies online you will have to update daily (if you want to play daily)
15:42<theholyduck>wouldnt autottd help with that?
15:43<frosch123>I guess it is meant for that :)
15:43<frosch123>SxeDag: if you have played 0.4.7 all the time, likely it is best to just use the stable 0.7.0 :)
15:44<@Rubidium>and finally the binaries are built ;)
15:44<@Belugas>speaking of Banks????
15:44<frosch123>it offers enough tol keep you confused for long :p
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not speaking of banks
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm speaking of secret police operations
15:45<SxeDag>the new world order has reachec TTD?
15:46<frosch123>and government trying to circumvent constitution
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>and that with the side note that it's not even a constitution...
15:47<SxeDag>what caused the northern coal line to blow up. commercial airliners from Jalla Trans. Corp. or the government of Flatville?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>all that with an imaginary threat of "terroristic" attacks
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>with the side note that the last terroristic attac of foreign origin was 23 years ago
15:48<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, <-- like that :)
15:49<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: still not getting it
15:49<@Rubidium>terrorism = fear of something bad happening, so it's like agorafobia
15:49<SxeDag>Error: cant open
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>by (european) law, you are now terrorist when you pick up the phone, or send an email
15:49<SxeDag>cant start the game^^
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>SxeDag: well, you should maybe read the readme
15:50<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Terrorist until proven innocent.
15:50<+glx>SxeDag: you failed to install correctly as this part is the same in 0.4.7
15:51<dihedral>no wonder he never played any other version :P
15:51<dihedral>could never get them to run :-D
15:52<SxeDag>havent played for some yeears now
15:52<SxeDag>i failed to install correctly?only thing i did was uncheck copy graphics
15:53<+glx>you installed over 0.4.7?
15:53<SxeDag>over? i DL installer and installed in a new folder
15:54<+glx>that's why :)
15:54<planetmaker>and didn't update your desktop link?
15:54<SxeDag>i dont have the old version installed
15:54<+glx>then read the readme about required files :)
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15:55<dihedral>why use the installer? :-P
15:55<dihedral>why is there such a thing
15:55<SxeDag>to install?
15:55<dihedral>nobody who has the cd actually uses the installer :-D
15:55<planetmaker>dihedral, I guess the name gives it away...
15:55<dihedral>there's a zip package
15:56<dihedral>actually that sounds rude :-D
15:56<Alberth>then you have to decide yourself where to put the new files :p
15:56<dihedral>oh my - hard
15:56<dihedral>i cannot do something like that
15:56<planetmaker>hehe :)
15:57<dihedral>+ if it's an installer, i can join the channel and rant about the game not working even though i unticked the 'copy graphics' section
15:57<dihedral>my my my
15:57<SxeDag>where will i copy the graphics from if i dont have em
15:58<@Rubidium>you have them, cause you had them with 0.4.7
15:58<planetmaker>SxeDag, google is your friend. Or get OpenGFX
15:58<SxeDag>ok, since you guys obv dont know it i'll find out myself
15:59<dihedral>hehe - what a looser
15:59<dihedral>you are welcome
15:59<Noldo_>SxeDag: by copy you mean steal?
15:59<dihedral>people are telling you all the time, and you are blind
15:59<dihedral>you simply dont read what they tell you
16:00<dihedral>how hard can it be?
16:00<Prof_Frink>There must be ooh... 3407 places to get the graphics from
16:00<SxeDag>yes, but i dont know how
16:00<SxeDag>thats why im asking
16:00<SxeDag>isnt it obv
16:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: alberth * r16513 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Add nested widgets root and array to Window, and NWidgetBase::FillNestedArray() to fill the array.
16:00<dihedral>you have the readme file - that tells you where the graphic files have to go to, you have a running 0.4.7 - you could look in the folder mentioned in the readme, but in the 0.4.7 install directory
16:01<Prof_Frink>No, it's subtle. That's why you didn't notice.
16:01<SxeDag>if you dont want to help me understand what i dont, then fine
16:01<dihedral>we ARE fucking helping you
16:01<planetmaker>or - as I said - get OpenGFX. It's still unfinished though, but doesn't violate any copyright, if you rip it off the net
16:02<dihedral>he does not need to rip it off the net
16:02<dihedral>he has the data on his computer already :-p
16:02<SxeDag>'re the one not reading
16:02<dihedral>SxeDag: did you have a look at the readme file?
16:02<planetmaker>you grab the latest testing version of that from
16:02<SxeDag>i already said i dont have the game TTD or OTTD installed
16:03<dihedral>did you not just say that you got an error about missing?
16:03<dihedral>that tells me that openttd is installed enough to look for the file
16:03<dihedral>that means it's installed enough for there to be a readme file
16:03<dihedral>Ammler: he does not know where to put it
16:03<SxeDag>well, yes i installed it 5 mins ago. but i dont have any other versions installed
16:04<KenjiE20>[20:20] <Ammler> Q: version?
16:04<KenjiE20>[20:20] <SxeDag>
16:04<KenjiE20>^ so that was?
16:04<dihedral>a lie then
16:04<capleton>hmm, anyone know if there is a collection zipfile with the 32bpp tiles? would be neat :)
16:04<SxeDag>i've got the game on an external drive
16:04<planetmaker>capleton, yes. Search the forums for the 32bpp thread. It has links
16:04<SxeDag>from 4 years ago
16:04<KenjiE20>cap; there used to be on the
16:04<Ammler>well, that is best sound ever ;-)
16:04<capleton>planetmaker: ok cool
16:04<KenjiE20>yea what pm said
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16:05<+glx>SxeDag: the files are on this external drive
16:05<dihedral>SxeDag: you have that drive at hand?
16:05*planetmaker needs urgently some wood to bang the head against.
16:05<dihedral>then 3 things to do
16:05<dihedral>read the readme file
16:05<dihedral>connect the drive you have the install of 0.4.7 on
16:06<+glx>copy required files from drive to where readme says
16:06<dihedral>go to the location 0.4.7 is installed at, and see if any of those folder names were mentioned in the readme file
16:06<dihedral>glx: i was not wanting to jump to far at once :-D
16:06<planetmaker>KenjiE20, no, to make the pain go.
16:07<Prof_Frink>Steal a frenchman's bread?
16:07<KenjiE20>not that, pm
16:08<SxeDag>wtf is this language?
16:08<planetmaker>the one you selected?
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's called "English", as required by the topic
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, you got all information you need to get the game running
16:09<SxeDag>it is
16:10<SxeDag>so back to the original Q - are the competetiors really competitive?
16:11<SmatZ>they are far better than in before 0.7
16:11<SxeDag>wasting a whole starting budget on a zig zag trainline seems pointless
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16:11<dihedral>oh man
16:11<dihedral>oh man!!!
16:11<planetmaker>well. Start the game, download some AIs and have a run.
16:11<SmatZ>yes, dihedral?
16:12<dihedral>SxeDag: the ai in the version of openttd you are (somewhat) familiar with (0.4.7) basically SUCKS
16:13<dihedral>as does the ai in any 0.5.x release
16:13<SxeDag>thats my observation as well lol
16:13<dihedral>and 0.6.x release
16:13<dihedral>big change - i am not sure you have understood that so far from the odd ways people have mentioned it here before
16:13<planetmaker>and now comes 0.7.x
16:13<SxeDag>0.7.0 is suddenly donaldtrump mode?
16:14<dihedral>the ai as you know it does no longer exist
16:14<theholyduck>SxeDag, 0.7 lets people write their own ai's
16:14<theholyduck>in a nice modular system
16:14<Prof_Frink>It is an ex-AI. It has ceased to be.
16:14<dihedral>you can write your own if you like (though it'd not advise you to do so)
16:14<theholyduck>then yuo just dl a good one
16:14<theholyduck>and play against it
16:14<dihedral>or you can download an ai someone else has wirtten, and play against that
16:14<dihedral>and you will (depending on the ai) have a hard time
16:14<theholyduck>dihedral, well they can just keep building and building
16:15<theholyduck>then there is the fact that a monkey playinjg connect the dots with airfields
16:15<theholyduck>can easily outperform 80% of peoples rail networks
16:15<dihedral>Prof_Frink: we have dumped that bitch :-D
16:15<theholyduck>or as i like to put it
16:15<SxeDag>airfield better than coaltrains?
16:15<theholyduck>"airfields.. because even monkey's can play connect the dots"
16:16<theholyduck>SxeDag, sure :P
16:16<Prof_Frink>Oi. I resent "monkey" being used as a term of offense.
16:16<theholyduck>or *even a monkey
16:17<SxeDag>my double headed train ripped apart
16:17<SxeDag>now they are going in opposite directions
16:17<SxeDag>what can i do to fix it!?!?
16:17<SxeDag>dont tell me readme.txt
16:17<theholyduck>how did you manage that?
16:17<SxeDag>fuck, im gonna lose against the zigzag train co.
16:20<dihedral>you can play the newer version ;-)
16:20<dihedral>0.4.7 is no longer supported :-P
16:20<SxeDag>lol, only jpking
16:22<SxeDag>anyone actually everplay the candy land?
16:22<theholyduck>toyland and yes
16:22<theholyduck>ever once in a blue moon
16:22<+glx>too hard for my eyes
16:22<SxeDag>why would even 6 year olds play that when you can transport coal!
16:23<SxeDag>mmm, i luv my coal trains
16:23<Nite_Owl>and I am sure they love you back
16:24<SxeDag>yes, totally
16:24<dihedral>hey - perhaps we can find you some real coal trains you could play with :-P
16:24<SxeDag>is the starting amount halved? only 100k?
16:24<dihedral>just sit in front and wait for them to give you a ... HUG
16:25<SxeDag>lol, i sense death threats
16:25<dihedral>i never said i would put you there :-P
16:26<SxeDag>just assuming i would do it volutarily i assume?
16:26<dihedral>sure :-P
16:27<SxeDag>another question... is TTD played for money?
16:27<frosch123>I play it for fun
16:27<Nite_Owl>as in gambling?
16:28<SmatZ>not a bad idea
16:28<SxeDag>as in gambling or as a competition
16:28<Nite_Owl>try a texas hold 'em site
16:28<SxeDag>sure, i play poker too
16:28<dihedral>sure you can play for money
16:28<planetmaker>SxeDag, yes, you can. For every hour you can send me a fixed fee. Say... 5€?
16:28<dihedral>you visit the home page, and click the 'donate' link
16:29<SxeDag>but i know many computer games are played for money. i just wonder if thats the case for such and old game like ttd
16:29<dihedral>ttd is old
16:29<dihedral>OpenTTD is not old
16:29<SxeDag>you get the picture
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16:31<planetmaker>is the game better, if you would have to pay for the same thing?
16:31<SxeDag>pay for it?
16:31<planetmaker>then you should start to regularily donate as dih suggested
16:31<SxeDag>yes, sure
16:32<Muxy>Kiss, from Goulp ;)
16:32<dihedral>SxeDag: if you like what the game is, you can support it
16:32<SxeDag>whats the standard donation these days?
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16:33*SxeDag thinking of a number between 0-1000
16:33<Prof_Frink><drevil>One million dollars!</drevil>
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16:46*Belugas runs home
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16:50<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:50<planetmaker>SxeDag, 10 ... 50€
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17:06<SxeDag>lol, theres not any AIs in the game
17:06<theholyduck_>SxeDag, yes
17:06<theholyduck_>you need to DL them
17:06<SxeDag>i only got this dummyAI and the cool msg: he wont do shit
17:06<theholyduck_>see that download content
17:06<SxeDag>yeah, i understand
17:06<theholyduck_>on the main menu?
17:06<theholyduck_>click it?
17:06<theholyduck_>then select a couple of the things marked with ai
17:06<SxeDag>i know
17:06<theholyduck_>and then hit download
17:07<SxeDag>just thoguht it came with at least one default AI
17:07<theholyduck_>why would it?
17:07<theholyduck_>defaults generally suck
17:07<SxeDag>plug and play ftw`?
17:07<SxeDag>do you recommend any?
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17:08<theholyduck_>i havent tried any
17:08<planetmaker>any which is downloadable is ok
17:08<theholyduck_>though if i ever get really boored
17:08<theholyduck_>i'll add them all to a 2048x2048 gam
17:08<theholyduck_>and watch them do battle for a day
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17:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: alberth * r16514 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Add widget flags, and drawing and invalidating.
17:14<SxeDag>record it and send it to the movies
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17:53<dragonhorseboy>anyone feel like reminding me whats up with certain servers being password protected but has no www or anything to even inqury to re what password is? (I doubt its several players at one roof address seeing some of these server has been going on nonstop for several days)
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17:53<dragonhorseboy>just wondering about it thats all
17:54<Nite_Owl>friends and family only
17:54<Aali>1. clueless person A sets up server
17:54<Aali>2. person A forgets about server
17:54<dragonhorseboy>heh hm both makes sense and I hadn't thought of these .. thanks
17:54<dragonhorseboy>aali seem unlikely to me :p
17:55<Nite_Owl>or they have an IRC channel
17:55<Aali>dragonhorseboy: not really
17:55<Nite_Owl>did you click on the sever in the list to see more info
17:55<Aali>I MAY have a server running right now, I don't know, I usually forget about it
17:56<Aali>sure, its not on the server list, but not everyone turns that off
17:57<Aali>nope, wasn't running, must've rebooted that machine..
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17:58<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl nope and no clue here neither .. oh well no biggie anyway :p
17:59<Nite_Owl>they are also using v0.5.3
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18:03<dragonhorseboy>I do wonder one thing tho..there's no coop server in the list
18:03<Xaroth>there is
18:04<dragonhorseboy> I resorted the list by passworded servers....
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18:04<KenjiE20>lies, they are there
18:04<dragonhorseboy>let me try reload openttd...
18:04<Xaroth>or better yet, use auttottd when i get a chance to release it :)
18:05<dragonhorseboy>whats auttottd?
18:05<Xaroth>search the forums :)
18:06<SxeDag>What does "Join" in the company screen means? im playing online
18:06<SxeDag>can i join someones co?
18:07<SxeDag>which means?
18:07<Xaroth>you can play co-op ?
18:07<SxeDag>for joint profit?
18:07<SxeDag>and points
18:07<Xaroth>for joint fun
18:07<dragonhorseboy>xaroth.. 'no search results for auttottd, searching auto tie...' >_<
18:08<dragonhorseboy>(some funny suggest it decided)
18:08<Xaroth>the topic is on the first page of general openttd
18:08<Xaroth>surely the forum can find that o_O
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18:10<SxeDag>how do i access chat in-game?
18:10<Yexo>just press enter
18:13<dragonhorseboy>hm I'll pass
18:14<dragonhorseboy>anyway need to afk for supper :/
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18:54<tompaw> /wc
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20:18<SxeDag>how do i unload goods at a station? my train only takes it back. the city does not curently accept goods.
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>if it is not accepted, there is not much point in unloading... rather reroute the train to a location which is accepting
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise, the order window has dropdowns for special loading and unloading options
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>click on the order, and then on the little arrow next to "unload"
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>the order window has been rearranged for more options. all previous options are available somewhere
20:24<SxeDag>it only says unload and take cargo
20:24<SxeDag>so it takesit on again
20:25<Aali>so set the no loading flag
20:25<Aali>then you get unload and leave empty
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, so next to the unloading options are the loading options. set "no loading" there
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