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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-10

---Logopened Wed Jun 10 00:00:30 2009
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01:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16548 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix (r16538): removing of duplicates of base graphics set could behave randomly
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02:45<@petern>SmatZ, 0.7.2!
02:49<dihedral>why not 2.0.7? :-P
02:50<@petern>cos that would be stupid
02:50<dihedral>it's not like other people have not done so :-P
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03:07<SmatZ>petern: it would be boring if there were no bugs in 0.7.1 ;)
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03:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16549 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use bool in TileLoopClearHelper
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04:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16550 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_func.h): -Codechange: move definition of ScaleByMapSize to header file, use shifts instead of mults
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04:27<Noldo>why shifts?
04:27<@Rubidium>less μops
04:27<Noldo>have you tested?
04:28*planetmaker awards to SmatZ the title "Chief Performance Officer" ;)
04:28<@Rubidium>Noldo: just look at the implementation of multiplication in processors
04:28*planetmaker also fines SmatZ for speeding. Cost: one beer :P
04:29<Noldo>and compilers are unable to do optimizations?
04:29<planetmaker>Noldo, certainly not. But this way you don't rely on a compiler
04:30<Noldo>I don't think there is really any point in trying to be fast if the compiler sucks
04:30<@Rubidium>Noldo: knowing SmatZ he looked at the generated asm
04:31<@Rubidium>also n * (func() + func()) is arguably slower than n << (var + var)
04:32<@Rubidium>and as gcc doesn't do optimisation after linking it's fairly safe to claim it's faster
04:33<@Rubidium>and the implementation of func() would be: return 1 << var;
04:33<SmatZ>gcc doesn't know _map_size_x == 1 << _map_log_x
04:33<@petern>on p4, shifts are slower
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04:34<SmatZ>(probably no compiler would know, even with lto... but maybe I am underestimating developers of compilers)
04:34<@Rubidium>who in his/her right mind would use a P4? ;)
04:34<@petern>*cough* my server :s
04:34<@petern>xeons, but still
04:34<SmatZ>petern: I will have a look
04:35<@petern>see MISTAKE #6
04:35<Noldo>maybe it's just my untrained mind, but shifts as replacement for multi is quite hard to read
04:36<ddfreyne>doesn't gcc optimize multiplication with powers of two?
04:36<SmatZ>I am not sure if it's better to use mults instead of shifts just because one architecture likes them more
04:36<@petern>Noldo, in general yes, but you're assuming the multiplication made sense in the first place
04:37<@petern>SmatZ, of course. i was just pointing out that shifts are not necessarily faster, as planetmaker said.
04:38<@Rubidium>ddfreyne: if it doesn't know (for certain) it is multiplication by a power of two it still keep multiplying
04:39<ddfreyne>well, obviously
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04:39<planetmaker>petern, it was my naive ... impression. Why would one use shifts otherwise (if not operating on bit sets)
04:41<Noldo>in those functions the readability isn't that much of an issue as they are nicely documented
04:41<SmatZ>petern: thanks for interesting info, though the intel's docs don't state shifts should be replaced by muls ( )
04:43<@petern>the real solution
04:43<@petern>is to ban all p4s :D
04:43<@Rubidium>so for shifts < 3 adding is faster, after that shifting is faster
04:44<@petern>core 2 is nice, i assume core i7 is not worse
04:44<@Rubidium>all shifts are more than 3, so shifting is still faster than adding
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06:57*Aankhen`` wonders what chain of events landed that "UTF-8 please" in the topic.
07:03<KenjiE20>stuff like £ maybe?
07:05<@petern>and russians using that koi8 crap
07:15<dihedral>what an idiot in the forums!!
07:16<blathijs>Just one?
07:20<dihedral> <- hihihi
07:25<@petern>not ttd related at all
07:25<@petern>the signals are not close enough
07:25<@petern>and there's no queue of trainss
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07:25<@petern>what a waste of time that is, heh
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07:27<dihedral>but i like the connection of the image i posted :-P
07:27<dihedral>such a bad joke :-D
07:30<planetmaker>dihedral, why do you make so much fun of him? :(
07:30<planetmaker>It may be boring, but others may find it interesting...
07:30<planetmaker>or may take join doing / preparing / watching such stuff.
07:30<dihedral>it's a video of a train!
07:30<planetmaker>yes, I agree with you - it's boring what he did. But so what?
07:31<dihedral>where on earth is that related to openttd?
07:31<dihedral>or ttd
07:31<planetmaker>you and I find it boring.
07:31<dihedral>boring is not even what i mean - it's not related
07:31<dihedral>there are openttd vids on youtube, they are boring, but at least they are related!
07:31<planetmaker>ah.. c'mon. 50% of the people are somewhat attached to trains.
07:31<dihedral>is there not a forum 'off topic'?
07:32<dihedral>it is totally off topic + i did not make fun of him, i merely displayed how related his vids were with ttd :-P
07:32<Ammler>forrest gump is a nice movie
07:33<planetmaker>then tell him to post it in "General Transport Discussion". But to flame him for his hobby and delight? C'mon
07:33<planetmaker>that's just as poor
07:33<dihedral>actually i thought the picture to be quite funny :-)
07:33<dihedral>as it's even less related as his vids :-D
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07:37<Noldo>dihedral: admit it, you are just evil
07:38<@petern>that wasn't a falem
07:38<@petern>er, flame
07:38<@petern>if it was me
07:38<@petern>well ...
07:39<@Rubidium>Aankhen``: or for people using U+FF00 - U+FF5E
07:40<dihedral>Noldo, nope i will not admit it :-D
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09:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16551 /trunk/src/map_func.h: -Codechange: use shift instead of multiplication in TileXY()
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10:07<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16552 /trunk/src/map_func.h: -Codechange: make AddTileIndexDiffCWrap() a bit faster
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>YAY, they're reviving Futurama :)
10:15<@Rubidium>who cares (except those that care)?
10:15<Ammler>hmm, does banans have a recover password function?
10:18<dihedral>/query TrueBrain :-)
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10:18*dihedral gives Ammler another 'a'
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10:20<Ammler>mäh, don't like bother him for my stupidity
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10:54<Muddy>dihedral: sort of done.. :)
10:55<Muddy>now also with mysql backend!
10:55<dihedral>now that is nice :-)
10:56<dihedral>you run the servers on a posix system?
10:57<@petern>except it's mysql
10:58<Muddy>my openttd server runs on a ubuntu vps in atlanta, the other server belongs to a dude in trondheim, norway
10:58<dihedral>rephrase: you run the openttd servers on a posix system?
10:58<dihedral>^ petern, happy?
10:58<dihedral>Muddy, have a look at ap+ :-)
10:58<dihedral>and avignon is before it's first beta release too
11:01<Muddy>uhm, ok?
11:01<dihedral>they are bots and wrap the dedicated server console
11:02<dihedral>automate some stuff, can join an irc channel and relay chat
11:02<@petern>dihedral, huh?
11:02<@petern>dihedral, "mysql" "nice" -- pick one
11:02<dihedral><petern> except it's mysql <-
11:02<dihedral>eh - i am confuddling myself
11:02<dihedral>no worries :-P
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12:02<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16553 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: don't use TRACK_BIT_WORMHOLE and TRACK_BIT_DEPOT as bitmasks
12:03<TinoDidriksen>Wormhole? OpenTTD In Space?
12:04<planetmaker>TinoDidriksen: bridges and tunnels.
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12:05<TinoDidriksen>I figured as much. Just sounded funny...
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12:17<Eddi|zuHause>who said wormholes may occur only in space?
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12:19<dihedral>they exist in the ground too - real ones also
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12:20<totalwormage>hell, i have some on my body ;]
12:21<SmatZ>in your body
12:21<dihedral>we dont wanna know that much totalwormage
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12:21<SmatZ>appearing and disappearing every picosecond :)
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13:24<dihedral>hey Wolf01
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14:32<Sacro>Brianetta: are you upgrading the server?
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14:53<_ln>good night Wolf01
14:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16554 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp settings_func.h): -Fix (r16433): compilation with disabled network was broken
15:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16555 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Feature [FS#570]: ability to enter server and company password via command line when joining a server (based on patch by Progman, Ammler and planetmaker)
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15:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16556 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp ai_instance.hpp): -Codechange [NoAI]: use accessor for AIInstance::is_dead
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15:26<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16557 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Feature(tte) [NoAI][FS#2892]: mark dead AIs by red background in the AIDebug window
15:27<planetmaker>SmatZy-PatchY mutated into Feature-SmatZy! :)
15:28<planetmaker>but yes, that proposal made much sense :)
15:33<@Rubidium>so now we need a someoney-notdevy mutate into a bigfix-someoney?
15:35<planetmaker>Rubidium: you should announce a vote in the forums "who shall become the next new dev" :P
15:36*SmatZ is afraid of results
15:37<@Rubidium>SmatZ: why?
15:37<@Rubidium>electronic votes are unreliable
15:37<@Rubidium>so people have to register first and then vote in person
15:37<@Rubidium>also the candidates need to formally register in person
15:38<frosch123>who cares about developers? we need a project manager
15:38<fjb>Managers are always good.
15:38<SmatZ>sure, yes :)
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>a big one
15:38<Alberth>right a BIG one eh.
15:38<SmatZ>and a team building
15:38<@petern>i have a big one
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think we wanted to know :p
15:39*Rubidium assigns fjb to Chief Testing Officer
15:39*SmatZ has just average one, but is happy with it L()
15:39<fjb>Ok, testing is always good.
15:40<Alberth>too bad that as chief, you cannot play^H^H^H^Htest yourself
15:41<fjb>No need to test my self. :-P
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15:41<@Rubidium>fjb, you should. Your spelling component is broken.
15:42<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:42<fjb>Hello Nite_Owl.
15:42<Nite_Owl>Hello fjb
15:42<fjb>Rubidium: That is known, so need for testing it.
15:46<andythenorth>Can I be project manager? I'd like to start by making a full spec.
15:47<andythenorth>So if you could all stop everything for, say a year or two, I'll get back to you :)
15:47<planetmaker>hello Nite_Owl
15:48<Nite_Owl>Hello planetmaker
15:58<planetmaker>Thanks for your Makefile-diff, Rubidium
15:59<planetmaker>I'm somehow led to the assumption that you don't use bash :P
16:00<@Rubidium>actually I do, but when I saw sh I knew it was probable that it wasn't tested with anything else than bash so I tried it
16:01<@Rubidium>and debian is working on changing to dash as default shell
16:01<Xaroth>wasn't dash default shell to begin with for debian?
16:01<Xaroth>or was that unubto only
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16:06<Noldo>dash is not tagged essential, bash is
16:08<planetmaker>he, so thanks the more then :)
16:09<fjb>bash isn't essential, only sh is.
16:10<@Rubidium>Noldo: says "Switch /bin/sh to dash
16:12<Noldo>fjb: in theory, yes
16:13<Noldo>making dash the /bin/sh does not drop the essential from bash
16:15<Ammler>hmm, suse doesn't have dash in the default repos.
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16:16<Eddi|zuHause>what's the advantage of dash over bash?
16:17<@Rubidium>Noldo: whether it's dropped from essential or not doesn't matter. If a script uses /bin/sh you should not use bash only constructs as /bin/sh does not imply it being bash
16:18<@Rubidium>basically: faster than bash, less external libraries
16:20<_ln>*less → fewer
16:20<@petern>and the web page is small
16:24*planetmaker slaps _ln
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16:29<Brianetta>Sacro: Compiling now.
16:29<janklopper>quick question, openttd doesn't start on my system (ubuntu 9.04), but does generate a constant 100% cpu load (single thread)
16:29<planetmaker>janklopper: that's bad
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16:30<planetmaker>try ./openttd -d
16:30<janklopper>if i strace openttd, is it seems to be statting all of my files in the ~/data dir
16:30<planetmaker>what does it tell you?
16:31<planetmaker>I leave that to the pros then :P
16:31<Brianetta>janklopper: Are you running on NFS ro similar?
16:31<Brianetta>or similar, even?
16:31<janklopper>Brianetta: nope, but the data is a separate mounted raid5
16:31<@Rubidium>circular reference (ln)
16:31<Brianetta>I find I get a lengthy hang when reading from NFS over wireless (I am a bit of a masochist for that).
16:32<Brianetta>A fast filesystem should help.
16:32<janklopper>since its a 2tb setup, i guess it would scan trough all the files eventually
16:32<Brianetta>If you have that many files. yes
16:32<janklopper>but im wondering why on earth it would even scan those files
16:32<Brianetta>It's probably generating checksums
16:32<janklopper>(scan / stat)
16:32<Brianetta>that means reading every byte
16:32<janklopper>whoa, whu?
16:32<Brianetta>Everything under data
16:32<janklopper>why would it need to do that?
16:32<planetmaker>:O md5 for all files takes ages :)
16:33<planetmaker>janklopper: it doesn't... normally.
16:33*Brianetta shrugs
16:33<planetmaker>where is your openttd installed?
16:33<Brianetta>Why do you have a 2Tb data directory?
16:33<janklopper>trought the .deb package
16:33<janklopper>Brianetta: backups, media, repositories, code, etc
16:34<janklopper>its a separate disk (raid) mounted under my home
16:34<Brianetta>openttd has *a* data directory
16:34<Brianetta>that really should be its own
16:34<janklopper>is that dir located in ~/data ?
16:34<planetmaker>janklopper: ~/.openttd/data
16:35<planetmaker>if you install / copy it somewhere in your home dir or a subdir thereof
16:35<janklopper>i have the ~/.openttd folder
16:35<janklopper>no dta dir inside there though
16:36<Brianetta>janklopper: It's system-wide
16:36<Brianetta>dpkg -L openttd
16:36<Brianetta>dpkg -L openttd | grep data
16:36<Brianetta>I'd do it myself but I don't have the package
16:37<janklopper>ok, just a sec
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: did you try starting openttd, when you do not have ~ as working directory?
16:37<Brianetta>That's it (:
16:37<Brianetta>That should be the datadir in your config
16:37<Brianetta>especially if you wrote your own config file
16:38<janklopper>Eddi|zuHause: hmm, that at least gives me an error
16:38<Brianetta>Hopefully *that* is not 2TB
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16:38<janklopper> aint there (I need to get the original files)
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16:38<Brianetta>You certainly do
16:38<planetmaker>janklopper: that's true
16:38<janklopper>Brianetta: nope, /usr/share/games/openttd/data contains just the openttd files
16:39<planetmaker>Or you get OpenGFX
16:39<janklopper>so, if you start openttd from a path which also has a subdir named "data" your screwed? :P
16:39<janklopper>planetmaker: that was the plan :)
16:39<planetmaker>oki :)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: so, try not to have a 2TB directory called "data" in your working dir, then it should be fine ;) ... the missing original files need to be installed separately, though
16:39<janklopper>I've been working on a web based client for a while now, but usually dont need the openttd client itself
16:40<janklopper>Eddi|zuHause: right, sorry aint gonna change :P
16:40<janklopper>maybe add a token in there, designating the "data" dir as a valid openttd path
16:40<Brianetta>janklopper: Try changing your cwd
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>OpenTTD will try to search all directories called "data" it can find
16:40<janklopper>Brianetta: I will
16:41<Brianetta>Eddi: That kind of automatic behaviour is really lame (:
16:41<janklopper>Eddi|zuHause: yup, maybe it better to see if they have a file called .openttd before stating every file and its subdir
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>it might be configurable that it does not check the working directory, but you'll at least have to recompile for that
16:41<janklopper>that would be trivial to implement
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, you're the first one to notice that problem ;)
16:42<janklopper>hehe, probably wont be the last :P
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>it can't be that problematic :p
16:42<janklopper>~worksforme :P
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, you have your workaround
16:43<Brianetta>Sacro: New server is up.
16:43<janklopper>Eddi|zuHause: thx :)
16:43<Brianetta>I have a ~/data
16:43<Brianetta>Thankfully it's not terribly huge
16:43<janklopper>other question, is there a server interface spec somewhere?
16:43<Brianetta>but it's totally unrelated to openttd
16:44<Brianetta>janklopper: Network protocol or what?
16:44<janklopper>Brianetta: i was hoping something plaintext/xml/json
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16:44<Brianetta>There's a binary UDP interface for game info
16:44<janklopper>I've been developing this:
16:45<janklopper>would love to create a server to openttd server interface
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: depending on what you actually want to achieve, you might want to check out openttdlib or autopilot
16:45<Brianetta>janklopper: Speaking as the guy who wrote autopilot, no you don't
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16:45<Brianetta>The game interfaces are as follows:
16:46<janklopper>Brianetta: hmm, how come? dealing with the browser stuff hasn't been easy either
16:46<Brianetta>Console output (used by autopilot through Expect): Limited.
16:46<Brianetta>UDP: Basic game info only
16:46<Brianetta>TCP: Download saved game using binary protocol, then transmit/receive binary game commands to keep game in lock step with server.
16:47<Brianetta>TCP is the multiplayer protocol. It periodically compares random seed to make sure that the simulation is accurate on both sides, and disconnects clients with the wrong seed. That's a desync error, and is what you get if you try to attach non-openttd software to the server.
16:48<Brianetta>Assuming your non-openttd server actually grabs the game and tries to keep up to date.
16:48<janklopper>hmm, I was hoping the interface would have been more open
16:48<Brianetta>It's open; it's just lame.
16:48<planetmaker>janklopper: <-- that's not what it shall look like, eh? :)
16:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r16558 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch found-town window to nested widgets.
16:48<Brianetta>Unfortunately it's so entrenched that there's no realistic prospect of change.
16:48<janklopper>The primary idea was to make a webbased vieuwer so anyone can see whats going on inside a hosted game
16:49<janklopper>planetmaker: hehe, safari is a bit broken yes ;)
16:49<planetmaker>it's firefox
16:49<Brianetta>janklopper: It would need to be openttd, basically.
16:49<janklopper>hmm, firefox should be better
16:49<janklopper>at least it works fie here
16:49<Brianetta>Firefox is that bad.
16:49<Brianetta>3.0.10 in Ubuntu
16:49<Noldo>didn't someone make such webviewer
16:49<planetmaker>same here on mac
16:50<Brianetta>Noldo: I had a webcam on my server'spage
16:50<Brianetta>Basically, the server was saving screenshots
16:50<Brianetta>but that's deprecated
16:50<janklopper>hmm, Should probably upload a new version then
16:50<Brianetta>and unlikely to remain possible on a dedicated server
16:50<@petern>it's not
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: the problem is, with openttd's game state being so huge, it cannot transfer the game state regularly over the net. that is why all game state is transferred once, and each client runs the entire simulation
16:51<Brianetta>petern: I ditched the mod I made to autopilot some months back (:
16:51<janklopper>Eddi|zuHause: and there's no incremental update mechanism?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: no
16:52<@Rubidium>janklopper: how much MB/s do you want?
16:52<janklopper>thats how i do udpates, just select the updates for the viewport since your last view
16:52<Brianetta>Unfortunately, using a lossy or corrective multiplayer protocol would involve a rewrite of much of the game's code, since it changes some pretty fundamental assumptions.
16:52<janklopper>yup, figured
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16:55<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: you can only work on a static savegame. everything else would be futile
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>and savegames can be several MB
16:55<janklopper>ok, il just keep my focus on engine shinies then
16:55<janklopper>and skip my openttd idea for now :P
16:56<Brianetta>unless you use a modified openttd client, connect it as a spectator, and query its state.
16:56<Brianetta>If you're doing that, though, you might as well get it to render your view.
16:57<Brianetta>brb, switching over to laptop
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17:01<Brianetta>We're watching Blakes 7 (-:
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17:02<Nite_Owl>I remember that show
17:02<Brianetta>Interestingly, so do I.
17:02<Brianetta>My wife hasn't seen it, though.
17:03<Nite_Owl>It was only on for a season or two I believe
17:04<Brianetta>There were four series
17:04<Nite_Owl>Possibly only the first one or two made it across the pond or they combined them over here
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17:05<@petern>i don't think i've seen it, maybe an episode here and there
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17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i do not remember ever having seen this name
17:16<Brianetta>Eddi, it's a British sci fi series from the seventies. Written by Terry Nation, who invented Daleks.
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17:18<Eddi|zuHause>i also learned about the daleks only about two years ago...
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17:18<Eddi|zuHause>probably even less...
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17:22<janklopper>hmm, whats the maximum width for openttd to be played on?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>that limit was lifted recently.
17:23<janklopper>can get it to go to 4960pixels wide
17:23<planetmaker>janklopper: I played it successfully on 2560 x 1024
17:23<planetmaker>janklopper: yes
17:24<@Rubidium>that depends on the amount of memory you can allocate and the width your videocard(s) support and the limits of your OS
17:24<janklopper>hmm, strage
17:24<janklopper>my desktop is 4960*1600
17:25<janklopper>8gb ram, 64 bits, but maybe openttd is running in 32b
17:25<janklopper>786meg ram per gpu, so that should be plenty for the framebuffer
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>janklopper: so what is the actual problem?
17:25<janklopper>hl2 and ut2k4 run fine
17:26<janklopper>I can "only" stretch the window to about half of the third screen
17:26<janklopper>limited the width to about 4100 or so
17:26<janklopper>not a problem, just a question
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>the window size is only limited by your window manager... openttd has no influence on that
17:27<Prof_Frink>A 4096x4096 window on a significantly smaller screen is... interesting
17:27<janklopper>odd, most programs can be stretched to fit the entire desktop
17:27<janklopper>but openttd cant
17:28<janklopper>not really a problem though, its not like im planning on playing like that
17:28<@Rubidium>openttd itself doesn't imply a limit, so the question is what does cause the limit
17:30<janklopper>hmm, i thought fullscreen didnt work (only used one xinerama screen), but now that i stretched it, it does work, and fullscreen actually does use 4960*1600 pixels :)
17:30<janklopper>looks like it is the gnome window manager then
17:31<janklopper>looks pretty shiny :P
17:32<janklopper>especially if you think back to what the original resolution was my 386 played this on
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17:49<Fogel>hello, is there any way to put a speed limit for some part of railroad?
17:50<@Rubidium>build a bridge
17:50<Fogel>if f.ex. train has vmax 160kmh, and i want it to travel with 120 for 50 tiles
17:51<welshdragon>use wagon speed restrictions
17:53<SmatZ>build a bridge
17:53<Prof_Frink>Build lots of bridges
17:53<Yexo>build a very steep slope
17:54<Prof_Frink>Use a slower engine
17:54<SmatZ>send it to depot and replace the engine there
17:54<Prof_Frink>Send a slower engine down the track ahead of it
17:54<Fogel>slowest bridge is 177
17:54<Fogel>more than train's vmax
17:55<SmatZ>build longer bridge
17:55<Fogel>(i use total bridge renewal set)
17:55<Yexo>use another bridge set
17:55<Fogel>ah, there is one 120
17:55<Nite_Owl>station, timetables, wait times at station, will accomplish the same thing
17:56<Nite_Owl>if that thing is spacing out your trains of course
17:57<Fogel>i mean - i have 200 tiles long track, i want it to travel first 50 for 120 mph, next 100 with its max speed, last 50 again with 120
17:57<Fogel>to make it more realistic
17:58<Prof_Frink>We don't approve of the R word in here.
17:58<Nite_Owl>good thing Belugas went home already
18:00<Fogel>why? i just wanted to make sth kinda similar to what we call Polish Railways, and there are a lot of speed limits here, i just wanted to simulate them a bit
18:00<Nite_Owl>bottom line - there is no easy way to do that
18:00<Yexo>the problem is that a lot of people are making suggestions "because it's realistic"
18:01<SmatZ>maybe with orders... it would be simple
18:01<SmatZ>and use waypoints to start/end "speed limited" segment
18:01<Fogel>i thought about wapoints and timeytabled travels
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>i support Fogel's request, but the reason is not "realism", but synchronising the flow on a busy main line
18:02<SmatZ>hmm that probably won't work with orders, Eddi|zuHause
18:02<Fogel>but it'll be difficult to find appropriate ticks number
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>orders is only one solution to the problem
18:02<Nite_Owl>mode separation works well for that
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, Nite_Owl, it does not. it requires space for at least two parallel lines
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>for each direction
18:04<Nite_Owl>well you did not specify that you wanted a two track mainline
18:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16559 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: introduce Company::IsValidAiID() and Company::IsValidHumanID(), don't use IsHumanCompany() where possible
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18:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16560 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r16559): wrong replacement at one place
18:12<SmatZ>why are some bugs visible only from the commit log :-x
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: anyone who knows my building style can derive that...
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: next time use a less descriptive commit message, à la "move along, nothing to see here."
18:14<Nite_Owl>please forgive my unfamiliarity
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: technically, main lines can also be single tracked
18:15<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: most of my commits are of this kind
18:15<SmatZ>it would be boring soon
18:15<Nite_Owl>or is it please forgive my lack of familiarity
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: i believe it's "infamiliar"
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no logical rule to support that
18:16<Nite_Owl>no, spell checker does not like that one
18:17<Nite_Owl>true though - main lines can be any size you like
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>that is even "realistic"
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18:18<Eddi|zuHause>especially in east germany, where the russians collected all the second tracks as reparation
18:19<Nite_Owl>just as you prefer dual tracks, I prefer quad tracks when possible
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: what have you done now?
18:21*SmatZ isn't a rude person
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23:05<kkb110>where can I check what revision exactly 0.7 and 0.7.1 are?
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23:48<kkb110>or.. can someone just tell me what the revision is?
---Logclosed Thu Jun 11 00:00:32 2009