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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-13

---Logopened Sat Jun 13 00:00:41 2009
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01:35<dihedral>i want my bed
01:36<dihedral>my bed wants me
01:36<dihedral>oh how happy could i be
01:38<andythenorth>meh my bed hates me
01:40<andythenorth>but nfo loves me
01:40<andythenorth>do I love nfo?
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02:59<andythenorth>nfo: Wagon length callback 11. Usual case is *reducing* wagon length. I have a case with articulated RVs where I need a vehicle to be 12.5% longer (sprites are overlapping).
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03:18<SmatZ>andythenorth: nope
03:25<andythenorth>I'll use spacer vehicles with empty graphics then. Looks suckier, but will work
03:28<andythenorth>The real sprites I'm using are shorter than default TTD RVs, but overlap visually when articulated. This seems non-ideal? Default train vehicles are same length as default RVs and do not overlap.
04:17<andythenorth>Or it could be my drawing. Yep, _probably_ that. Nothing to see here.
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06:22<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r16571 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2974](r16322): in some cases, train could be stuck in depot
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07:01<dragonhorseboy>any of you know how servers can have backward dates? there's eg one that says it started in janurary 2085 but its current at october 1992 now
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07:06<dragonhorseboy>hey kenjie20
07:11<Alberth>dragonhorseboy: afaik you can reverse date with the cheat menu
07:17<Ammler>isn't one the cfg setting, and the other the save setting?
07:18<Ammler>ie. you start a game at 2000 and then loading a game which is at 1980
07:19<dihedral>i would go with cheat too
07:20<dihedral>dragonhorseboy, save the game locally, and load it as single player and then check the cheat menu
07:20<dihedral>if one of them is ticket - you know
07:20<KenjiE20>what Ammler sais was what I was thinking; the startdate is the one set in the [game creation] cfg section
07:21<dihedral>then in theory you can change that value on a running game
07:21<Ammler>I guess, that is possible
07:21<dihedral>and any new query would get the new result
07:21<dihedral>try it
07:21<dihedral>you have a running game, you have openttdlib ^^
07:23<dihedral>does not work
07:24<dihedral>\o/ i win :-P
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07:31<@Rubidium>game creation date is stored in the savegame
07:31<Muxy>Hello - Kiss from Goulp
07:33<Ammler>Rubidium: what happens with older saves?
07:35<@Rubidium>older saves, the TTD/TTO/TTDP kind (from before OpenTTD's own savegame format) use 1950
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07:38<@Rubidium>but negative durations are due to cheating back in time (so you can have maglev in 1950)
07:39<dihedral>hehe - let maglev disappear again :-D
07:42<Ammler> <-- without cheat
07:42<Ammler>just starting the server and loading a save with "older" date
07:43<dihedral>started the server with -g?
07:43<@Rubidium>oh, that bug that the 'starting date' wasn't updated if you change the date in the scenario editor
07:43<Ammler>I start server with new game on 1900
07:43<Ammler>make a save
07:43<Ammler>start another server with gamestart 1975
07:44<Ammler>I load the other save there.
07:44<dihedral>then it's your own silly fault
07:44<dihedral>probably that though would happen with loading any game during another game
07:44<@Rubidium>odd, very odd
07:44<dihedral>not that is happens very often, but ....
07:44<dihedral>Ammler :-P -> bugs. ... :-D
07:45<Ammler>dunno, if that is a bug :-)
07:45<dihedral>sure is
07:45<dihedral>try loading the sav with -g at game start
07:45<dihedral>and see what date you get
07:46<Ammler>still -
07:46<Ammler>well, as you lost, you can make the report :P
07:47<dihedral>i did not lose ;-)
07:47<dihedral>i never lose - i dont just always win *cough&
07:49<Ammler>but changing the starting_year on running game has indded no influence.
07:50<Ammler>(why is it possible then?)
07:52<Ammler>maybe it has something to do with setting name change, wasn't that thing called start_date or soemthing in past?
07:52<@Rubidium>it's something *stupid* in the server code
07:53<dragonhorseboy>sorry was distracted by game
07:53<dragonhorseboy>fair enough ;)
07:54<Ammler>you catched a fly.
08:02<dragonhorseboy>I'm just playing the public beta is2 server with a decent player now ;)
08:02<dragonhorseboy>petern sure left many unfinished businesses as I can note
08:03<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16572 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Codechange: also catch FPEs in saveload and the warning about missing NewGRFs; only happens when assertions are disabled and NewGRFs are missing.
08:04<@petern>i what?
08:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16573 /trunk/src/network/ (network.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Fix: [Network] Always send the starting date from the game you're currently playing instead the starting date from the config file.
08:07<ccfreak2k>What is -g.
08:08<@Rubidium>read the manual?
08:08<ccfreak2k>That's a silly switch for a program to have.
08:08<Ammler>./openttd -h
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08:11<@petern>heh, cool
08:12<@petern>just had a flyby go overhead
08:12<@petern>6 formations
08:13<@petern>55 aircraft
08:13<ccfreak2k>I guess -g does nothing then.
08:14<SmatZ>ccfreak2k: it uninstalls the game, you need root privileges for that
08:14<@petern>by overhead, i mean literally
08:14<@petern>nearly blinded myself cos that's where the sun is too :p
08:16*_ln visited a German navy mine-seeking ship today [x]
08:20<@petern>hmm, 1000 ft
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08:27<dragonhorseboy>hey glx :)
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08:34<_ln>petern: what type of aircraft?
08:38<@petern>unfortunately not a clue
08:38<@petern>well, there were the red arrows, they're obvious
08:41<@petern>one of those at least
08:41<@petern>different aircraft in each formation
08:50<@petern>ah, VC10
08:51<@Rubidium>with yet another project file format
08:51<@Rubidium>oh, you're talking about a plane and not that MS thingy?
08:52<@Rubidium>sounded a bit like you found the beta of VC10
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09:15<dragonhorseboy>well have to go for a while now
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10:41<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: well, that is a long ongoing practice in eastern germany...
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11:43<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of sucky forum doesn't allow searching as guest user...
11:47<SmatZ>many forums even forbid anonymous users to view threads...
11:54<+glx>I consider these as bad forums :)
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12:47<HackaLittleBit>good afternoon
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: in that article earlier: "Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved" <- really, that sounds like any east german city
13:34<_ln>nice :/
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>basically that means, the USA are now, where the eastern block was 20 years ago
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>and we all know what happend to that one ;)
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13:43<_ln>someone has scanned and put online an old editorial (from 1981) from some finnish newspaper, where the author's point is that he disapproves how finnish universities are spending resources on researching some totally useless wireless phones, while everyone knows that foreign trade of metal industry products to Soviet Union will be the most important income for Finland for the next 100 years.
13:51<Alberth>doing prophecies in hindsight is always much easier.
13:53<_ln>i mentioned that to emphasize how unexpected it was back then the SU would only exist for another 10 years.
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, the point of researching something totally useless is to get it into a state where it becomes not totally useless anymore
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause>like 20 years from now we could steer computers by putting on a hat that measures the brain waves
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>the technology for that is there, it just needs to be researched and developed into a useful and stable product
13:57<_ln>in 6 years we'll have flying cars
13:57<_ln>(source: Back to the Future II)
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14:03<Wolfsherz>i just don't get this signaling-stuff... really, there seem to be different opinions on this topic anyway, but who can tell my when to choose block or path signals?
14:04<+glx>_ln: flying cars already exist
14:06<dihedral>Wolfsherz, preference has to do with it
14:06<dihedral>i.e. someone might prefer using pbs, Mark would never use pbs if he can avoid it
14:06<+glx>and mixing them is usually a bad idea
14:06<dihedral>if you want to build something like nand gates, you'd not use pbs either ;-P
14:06<SmatZ>freezing prisons should be here since 2006 according to demolition man
14:07<Wolfsherz>ok about this mixing of pbs and block signals. lets assume i have 2 terminus-stations, i connect them with a double track, each for one direction...
14:08<Wolfsherz>which signals would you chose, how many tiles between each signal, and why?
14:09<Wolfsherz>and i guess pre-, exit- and block-signals are neither pbs nor block - true?
14:11<Alberth>heh? block signals are not block signals?
14:11<Wolfsherz>sorry, combo...
14:13<Alberth>I use pbs for all 'complicated' crossings, eg in front of a station, with more than minimal track to improve throughput. For RORO platforms, I use plain combo signal for behind the platforms, and along the straight track (I hate it when trains drive in the 'wrong' direction).
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14:15<Alberth>trick with pbs is that you only need to put them where a train can safely stop, whereas with a combo signal, you'd try to minimize the block size to get better throughput
14:15<Maragil>I've just downloaded the latest generic binaries from your website/
14:15<Noldo>Maragil o/
14:15<Maragil>for Linux
14:15<Maragil>and i need to get
14:16<Maragil>can anyone help me?
14:16<Noldo>which distro?
14:16<Maragil>first time at playing this, trying it out - i'm a simutrans player :D
14:16<Maragil>OpenSuse 11.1
14:17<Noldo>it might be in a package names libicu38
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14:18<Alberth>My machine says it is in the libicu-3.8.1-7.fc9.i386 RPM
14:18<Maragil>I'm using gnome- can anyone give me a step by step guide?
14:18<Maragil>go to Install Software i guess?
14:18<Alberth> this may be handy
14:19<Wolfsherz>thank you alberth, so the typical distance between pbs-signals on a long track would be?
14:19<Alberth>Maragil: pretty much everything is at the wiki, more or less up-to-date, just search for it
14:20<Ammler>[20:16] <Maragil> OpenSuse 11.1 - [20:18] <Maragil> I'm using gnome- can anyone give me a step by step guide? what now?
14:20<Maragil>ok :D
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>Maragil: i was under the impression, openttd was in one of the community software repositories for suse
14:21<Maragil>it is..
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>then install that one?
14:21<Maragil>but when i run it i get this error :
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>instead of the generic one
14:21<Alberth>Wolfsherz: pbs reserves a path for the train until the next safe point, usually the next signal. Thus that will be the smallest distance you can have between 2 trains
14:22<Maragil>cannot open file ""
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, well, the readme tells about that.
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14:22<Maragil>about the
14:22<Maragil>where's the readme?
14:23<Wolfsherz>Maragil, you need to get this file, and some others, as stated in the readme, from the original ttd-game.
14:23<strongfrakk>Maragil: you need to download the Transport Tycon Deluxe + OpenTTD
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>data files in order to function. Please refer to the readme for
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>more information."
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14:23<Maragil>do you need to buy those?
14:23<strongfrakk>Maragil turn to torrents
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>says it right there in the package description
14:24<Wolfsherz>they are freely available in the internet... the game has been abandoned
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>Maragil: you can try opengfx
14:24<Maragil>thank you
14:24<strongfrakk>Maragil: keyword openttd
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>strongfrakk: please don't do that
14:24<strongfrakk>ok sorry
14:25<Alberth>Maragil: readme is at the download page in the first blurb of text.
14:25<Maragil>i went there-
14:25<Maragil>oh well- thank you al
14:25<Maragil>i'm downloading the files now
14:25<Maragil>thanks for your help!
14:25<Alberth>section 4.1, line 161 :)
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14:26<strongfrakk>Alberth: what are you talking about ?
14:26<Alberth>or did you mean the pbs stuff?
14:27<MYOB>anyone know what was the last version that built with GCC2?
14:27<strongfrakk>i meant about section
14:28<Alberth>strongfrakk: <------ online readme file, from the 'download' page.
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14:29<strongfrakk>im on it
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14:45<+glx>MYOB: we dropped gcc2 support
14:45<MYOB>glx I'm aware of that, I wanted to know what was the last version before it was dropped
14:46<+glx>I can't remember if noai worked with it
14:46<+glx>SmatZ should know better
14:47<SmatZ>MYOB: before it was dropped or last version that compiled with gcc2?
14:48<SmatZ>maybe some ~15500
14:48<SmatZ>I think there were several builds that compiled with NoAI
14:48<MYOB>I'll give it a search..
14:48<MYOB>just have some people looking for a final version for 'classic' BeOS
14:49<SmatZ>0.7 will compile if you drop NoAI and do some wchar fixes
14:50<MYOB>last build I put out publically is from pre-0.5 svn, so even 0.7 hacked at a bit is a big leap
14:51<+glx>0.6 should compile :)
14:52<MYOB>we FINALLY have a GCC4 option...
14:52<+glx>use that then :)
14:52<+glx>and drop gcc2
14:53<MYOB>you have to be using haiku-gcc4 for that
14:53<MYOB>for BeOS 5, 6 (Zeta) and Haiku-gcc2 its a nogo
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14:56<SmatZ>MYOB: actually it seems anything >= r15024 is a no-go
14:57<SmatZ>so the problem preventing gcc2 to compile noai was solved before the merge... but then other appeared, which was never solved :)
14:58<SmatZ>@openttd commit 15024
14:58<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r15024 /branches/noai/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2009-01-12 16:28:01 UTC)
14:58<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: [NoAI] -Cleanup: remove some hacks
14:59<SmatZ>@openttd commit 15027
14:59<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by truebrain :: r15027 /trunk (309 files in 30 dirs) (2009-01-12 17:11:45 UTC)
14:59<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see.
14:59<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: NoAI is an API (a framework) to build your own AIs in. See:
14:59<SmatZ>this one :-p
14:59<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: With many thanks to:
14:59<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: (...)
15:01<MYOB>'remove some hacks' sounds easily like 'remove everything needed for ancient compilers to work' ;)
15:02<@petern>no, that was 16492 ;)
15:03<SmatZ>it was my mistake, trunk doesn't compile with gcc2 since r15027
15:04<+glx>MYOB: 'hacks' were saveload hacks
15:05<MYOB>the configure script (well, config.lib) looks for zlib in locations that we don't have
15:06<MYOB>not sure theres much point providing a patch if I can't guarantee the app even builds on haiku-gcc4 ;)
15:06<+glx>you can always pass the path to configure
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15:23<MYOB>I am so out of touch with the build system here...
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15:24<avdg>long time ago :)
15:24<avdg>o wrong chanel srr
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15:52<andythenorth>players are being helpful :|
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15:55<Alberth>they only found a new place to post their suggestions :p
16:00<andythenorth>I don't like to be mean about them, some are just kids (I think). But some are more annoying than others :(
16:04<Alberth>you handled it quite nicely, I think
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17:16<Alberth>good evening
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18:16<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:23<SmatZ>hello Nite_Owl "0
18:27<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
18:27<Nite_Owl>sorry for the delay - I was called away for a moment
18:33<@Belugas>guess who is back to work@work?
18:33<@Belugas>luckily form home but still
18:34<Nite_Owl>working from home is slightly better than working from the office
18:35<Nite_Owl>not by much but still better
18:43<@Rubidium>Belugas: it's Sunday 00:43, so I hope you get paid extra ;)
18:44<@Belugas>i took wednesday off for personal matters
18:44<@Belugas>so... give me, i'll give you
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18:47<SmatZ>no problem :)
18:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16574 /trunk/src/network/core/game.h: -Codechange: reorder stuff in NetworkGameInfo so compilers waste less bytes aligning stuff and fix the comment of the structs.
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19:21<@petern>oh cool, the 'live' mp3 streaming does actually work
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19:53<keikoz>is there a way to know the exact rating my company has in some city ?
19:54<SmatZ>not without a patch
19:56<keikoz>o, thank you
20:07<@petern>well you can look it up in the local authority window
20:07<SmatZ>you don't see exact value there
20:07<SmatZ>just "Good / Excellent..."
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20:29<@petern>SmatZ, from a user point of view, that is the value
20:31<SmatZ>petern: true - I am playing with though
20:32<@petern>i am playing with my synths
20:34<@Belugas>i'm working on my work :(
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20:40<HackaLittleBit>and i am going to sleep :)
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 14 00:00:43 2009