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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-18

---Logopened Thu Jun 18 00:00:51 2009
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01:36<mikk36|work>hey, q: would it be possible to get timestamps into console ?
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04:22<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43949&sid=2054045eeb2c66b421f58b8e35ae2a0d <-- nice reply by Eddi :)
04:23<@Rubidium>:O session hijack!
04:23<planetmaker>he :)
04:24<planetmaker>you're right
04:25<dihedral>eh - are sessions not also bound to ip / port ?
04:25<planetmaker>whatever... session terminated :P
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05:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i had to rephrase that many times until it stopped sounding insulting :p
05:02<planetmaker>hehe @ Eddi|zuHause
05:02<planetmaker>I believe you to the word
05:02<planetmaker>I considered to reply, too, but finally refrained.
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>i have not had much contact with Oz, but he looks like a control freak to me
05:04<Eddi|zuHause>he can't stand the fact that there are parts of the game that he cannot control, that's why his GRF contains so many different features
05:04<planetmaker>same here. At least this detail control over the players and their user interface looks like
05:05<planetmaker>Indeed, I think that each feature should rather be a separate newgrf. Somewhat like the Japan set does it.
05:06<planetmaker>They're doing a marvelous job, but keep it modular
05:06<planetmaker>e.g. let me choose.
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes. the alpine grf suffers from the same problem, it contains both houses and industries. but at least MB realised that this is a problem
05:07<planetmaker>he, yes :) I he isn't as radical in these things as Oz seems like. Luckily
05:08<planetmaker>or we wouldn't have a dbset anymore either ;)
05:08<planetmaker>which would be a shame.
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05:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16590 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp newgrf.cpp): -Fix [FS#2967]: don't crash when tars/newgrfs are removed, just tell the file could be opened/found.
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>missing "not"?
05:49<Markk>Where?
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>"could not be found"?
05:49<Markk>Ah
05:49<Markk>Yeah, woyuld think so
05:50<@Rubidium>yeah, I always miss at least word per sentence
05:50<Markk>would*
05:50<Markk>^^
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>:)
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it was not the first commit message that was crippled like this ;)
05:55<@Rubidium>it won't be the last either
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06:44<Eddi|zuHause>Microsoft is weird...
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>facing possible sanctions by the EU, they announced that they will not ship IE 8 with Windows 7
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06:45<Eddi|zuHause>now they announced that they would pack IE 8, together with "Live essentials" (mail, media player, etc.) on a separate disk
06:46<SirSquidness>I think it's quite smart actually.
06:46<SirSquidness>They don't get fined (as much?) by the EU, and most people will still put it on there
06:47<@Rubidium>if they're smart they just bundle IE8 and Firefox, make IE8 default, though unselectable, and keep Firefox as an option
06:47<@Rubidium>after all MS is making Firefox plugins
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, the process was initiated by Opera, and Google also wants to have a say in it, so just putting firefox on would probably not solve the problem
06:49<@Rubidium>then add iceweasel ;)
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, even if microsoft would allow other browsers on their disk, the next question is where to draw the line
06:50<@Rubidium>although, I'm waiting for the moment when Norton sues Microsoft for shipping Explorer out-of-the-box
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06:51<@Rubidium>or photoshop for shipping paint out of the box
06:51<@Rubidium>s/photoshop/adobe/
06:53<@Rubidium>I really wonder why a webbrowser is such a big deal when there are many many other things that Neelie could fine MS for
06:53<@Rubidium>although maybe 'tax' is a better word for it
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07:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16591 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: some coding style in strgen
07:39<@petern>http://eatliver.com/img/2006/1401.jpg
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm, we always played that on paper...
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08:45<mikk36|work>who is familiar with ecs vectors here ?
08:45<@Rubidium>George?
08:46<planetmaker>mikk36|work, you're doing it wrong. Just ask the questions you want to aks. Don't ask meta-questions.
08:46<mikk36|work>right
08:46<mikk36|work>General behaviour change (Description)
08:47<mikk36|work>i'd like to set the amount to unlimited and that the industries never disappear
08:47<mikk36|work>i've set the second parameter for basic sector to "0 14"
08:47<mikk36|work>but the amount left still decreases
08:47<mikk36|work>how is it supposed to work ?
08:48<planetmaker>so... does the industry disappear or does only the amount left decrease?
08:48<planetmaker>the latter doesn't hurt.
08:48<mikk36|work>i'm testing it now
08:48<mikk36|work>to see what happens
08:59<mikk36|work>uhuh
08:59<mikk36|work>"Sand left" just raised
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09:00<mikk36|work>it was something like 145k, now it's 171k
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09:04<mikk36|work>o.O now it's 222k
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09:05<Yexo>that's normal behavior
09:05<Yexo>the amount left is only a guess, and providing good service can increase that (up to a certain point, defined at the time the industry was build)
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09:08<mikk36|work>so how do i know if it will run out or not ?
09:08<Yexo>you test longer
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09:09<@Belugas>hello
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11:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16592 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#2880]: 'connection lost' was also shown when the client was 'leaving'.
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11:07<DJ_Nekkid>http://paste.openttd.org/183421 ... what is wrong? i can seriously not find a flaw... (action0 with "invalid escape sequense")
11:07<@Rubidium>\w<date> ?
11:07<@petern>dihedral, ^^
11:08<DJ_Nekkid>thats never been a problem before...
11:08<DJ_Nekkid>aha!
11:08<DJ_Nekkid>i found it!
11:08<@Rubidium>DJ_Nekkid: line 12?
11:08<DJ_Nekkid> 0E \dx3c30// Running cost Base vs 0E \dx3c30 // Running cost Base
11:08<DJ_Nekkid>line12 is a valid line... :)
11:09<@Rubidium>hmm, then it just looks weird ;)
11:09<DJ_Nekkid>(the comment didnt have a space)
11:09<@Rubidium>though why is line 26 invalid and 14 valid?
11:09<DJ_Nekkid>14 isnt either
11:10<DJ_Nekkid>>(
11:10<DJ_Nekkid>:)
11:10<DJ_Nekkid>but i figured one example were enough :)
11:11<DJ_Nekkid>im not used to work in such a documented fashion :)
11:12<@Rubidium>anyhow, it sounds like unwanted behaviour in nforenum
11:19<DaleStan>*blink*blink* Prop 0B is no good but 0E is fine. What did I do *this* time?
11:21<@Rubidium>no, the prop 0B line gives an error too
11:21<@Rubidium>the problem seems to be \XYZ// (i.e. comments starting directly after the 'data'
11:23<DaleStan>For me, with at least one version of nforenum, prop 0E works. I could have broken that later, though.
11:24<DJ_Nekkid>DaleStan: both lines didnt work... \dx123//comment
11:26<DJ_Nekkid>and im useing a _quite new_ version
11:26<DJ_Nekkid>2101 or something
11:26<DJ_Nekkid>12.05.2009 12:05
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11:27<DaleStan>I was probably using an older version when I tested; I have entirely too many renum executables floating around my system.
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11:28<DJ_Nekkid>grfcodec might have eaten it tho... that i didnt test...
11:29<DaleStan>Oh dear. I see the problem. And yes, GRFCodec should be closer to right.
11:31<DJ_Nekkid>:)
11:31<@Belugas>YOU GET ME CLOSER TO GOD!
11:31<DJ_Nekkid>always glad to help :P
11:32<DJ_Nekkid>blasphemy!
11:32<@Rubidium>Belugas: don't sit on him!
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11:33<@Belugas>no, indeed not... because next warning would be the same + h
11:33<@Belugas>buwhahaha!!!!
11:33<@Belugas>ding ding ding!@!@!!
11:33<DaleStan>It reads "\w12000/" and goes "Oh! I know what this is! It's a date!" And then it can't find the month.
11:33<@Belugas>Areuh areuh
11:33<DaleStan>Nevermind that the year is completely out of range.
11:34<DJ_Nekkid>btw ... are there any arguments to not enable a callback on a vehicle (train?)
11:35<DJ_Nekkid>i.e. performance hits
11:35<@Rubidium>callback processing can be expensive
11:36<@Rubidium>try starting a big map with lots of ECS industries
11:36<DaleStan>But that's more an effect of the callback itself being expensive, rather than the callback overhead.
11:37<DJ_Nekkid>so if i just "1E FF" all my trains, it would not mean much?
11:37<@Rubidium>and the effect of 1000*1000 times trying to build an industry that may not be build on the map because there is already one ;)
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>i take it some of the tourist center layouts must be unique
11:42<@Rubidium>yeah, something like that
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that needs a different system of generating the industry, instead of a callback that retroactively invalidates the attempt
11:44<@Rubidium>sure... but someone must be bothered enough to change that
11:45<@Rubidium>and based on the recent patches written by someone, it is unlikely
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11:47<DJ_Nekkid>isnt CB15 supposed to be "absolute" ?
11:48<DJ_Nekkid>or is that only for wagons?
11:48<DJ_Nekkid>*trying to make a new template system for 2cc v2.0*
11:51<DJ_Nekkid>and: isnt valuables in it's proper cargoclass by default?
11:51<DJ_Nekkid>useing r16384
11:51<DJ_Nekkid>*381
11:51<DJ_Nekkid>perhaps its time to upgrade
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11:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16593 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Cleanup: realign the TTDP flags table.
11:59<DaleStan>DJ_Nekkid: I still can't reproduce "0E \dx3c30// Running cost Base" failing, but the latest source reads "\w12000// comment" correctly.
12:00<DJ_Nekkid>DaleStan: when i "spaced" them it worked tho ...
12:00<DJ_Nekkid>not sure what the version is, but it's rather new as i saied...
12:00<DJ_Nekkid>shal i PM it or something?
12:00<DJ_Nekkid>the exe?
12:00<DaleStan>I bet it's not as new as the commit I made 2 minutes ago.
12:01<DJ_Nekkid>nope...
12:01<DJ_Nekkid>as i saied, around 2103
12:01<DJ_Nekkid>r210
12:01<DJ_Nekkid>r2103 god damn it!
12:01<DJ_Nekkid>but; on a sidenote ...
12:02<DJ_Nekkid>is valuables configured correctly as bit3 in the cargo class table?
12:02<planetmaker>DJ_Nekkid, did you not try with the exe I supplied there: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/files
12:03<planetmaker>there you have nforenum 2116
12:03<DJ_Nekkid>i tried it, but it didnt work in windows32
12:03<DJ_Nekkid>http://paste.openttd.org/183422
12:03<planetmaker>oh... meh :P :(
12:03<DaleStan>That's version's also broken. I fixed the bug in 2124.
12:04<DJ_Nekkid>that _should_ as i can see use cID30 for valuables
12:06<DJ_Nekkid>diamonds and gold dont work either
12:08<@Rubidium>DaleStan: is my assumption that action 2 variable 11 returns 0 for normal rail, 1 for elrail (if available), 1 for monorail (if no elrail, otherwise 2) and 2 for maglev?
12:08<@Rubidium>+right
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>yet another word missing ;)
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12:29<@Belugas>DJ_Nekkid, if diamonds and gold are not working for you, send them to me, i'llmake good use of them!
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12:36<frosch123>Rubidium: isn't there some FS task about that? iirc 0 is normal, 1 is elrail if present, 2 is maglev if present, and monorail is either 1 or 2 depending on the presence of elrail, maglev or both
12:37<frosch123>but wrt. petern's railtypes that variable is not that useful :/
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12:53<@Rubidium>frosch123: when will railtypes actually be done?
12:54<frosch123>no idea, but that variable already causes trouble when all four types are available
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12:56<@Rubidium>so do airport types ;)
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13:01<frosch123>but it should at least work for the common railtypes normal, elrail, narrow gauge, shinkansen and third-rail
13:01<frosch123>iirc they all do implementation specific stuff on deciding which railtype to override
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13:02<frosch123>so imo this variable can just be implementation-specific too. you can return either the index of the railtype, or maybe just the railtype label
13:02<z-MaTRiX>btw, there are trains that can go on narrow rail, and normal rail too
13:02-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:03<@Rubidium>z-MaTRiX: yeah, mini-Shinkansens ;)
13:03<frosch123>"btw" is somewhat misplaced :p
13:03<z-MaTRiX>[190110] frosch123...
13:03<z-MaTRiX>was thinking about related
13:04<Yexo>the discussion was about stations, not trains :)
13:04<z-MaTRiX>hm sry gmt+1
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>19:xx is not gmt+1
13:12<planetmaker>:P
13:12<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't GMT mean "Gordon's mommy time"?
13:13<@Rubidium>which is now, due to summer time, UTC+1
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>sounds... less likely :p
13:13<z-MaTRiX>+2
13:13<z-MaTRiX>;/
13:14<z-MaTRiX>yes
13:14<z-MaTRiX>:)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16594 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2969]: mouse would under some circumstances not be undrawn when drawing the first chat line causing two mouse pointers to be visible.
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13:42<HalfHand>A quick question: how do you close all windows in OpenTTD a once?
13:42<frosch123>try "del"
13:42<planetmaker>del
13:43<frosch123>and use the sticky button to keep some
13:43<HalfHand>thanks guys :D
13:43<HalfHand>(and Frosch - knew about that feature - therefore the question ;-) )
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13:48<DaleStan>Rubidium: Correct.
13:49<@Rubidium>thanks
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16595 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt:
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-18 17:50:03
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 31 fixed, 11 changed by Lone Wolf (42)
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13:58<Yexo>how does nforenum make a difference between a 'normal' action 2 and a variational action 2?
13:58<DaleStan>The fourth byte, IIRC.
13:59<DaleStan><type> always has bit 7 set; <nument1> never does.
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13:59<Yexo>thanks, seems I've been reading the variational action 2 page incorrect
14:00<Yexo>it makes sense now
14:01<@petern>heh
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14:08<frosch123>DJ_Nekkid: you messed up your vehicle ids. you check the cargotype for engine 0x1b, but you build engine 0x00 which is not articulated
14:09<@petern>?
14:10<Yexo>varaction 2 starting with: 8 * 14 02 04 02 82 4A <- should be feature 4, so stations, gives me a nforenum warning about testnig nonexistant variable 4A
14:10<@petern>what do you mean "you build" ?
14:10<Yexo>while http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Stations tells me 4A is the current animation frame
14:10<frosch123>fs2985
14:13<frosch123>Yexo: with type 82 you access a town
14:13<Yexo>frosch123: ah, seems like I can't read :p
14:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16596 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Fix (r16378): there were several hundreds of empty signs above tile 0 after loading TTO/TTD savegame
14:17<@petern>eh
14:17<@petern>heh, evfen
14:17<@petern>oh fuck off
14:17<@petern>stupid keyboard
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14:36<@petern>i found a new distribution method for openttd
14:36<@petern>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FloppyRom_Magazine.jpg
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14:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, for certain definitions of "new" ;)
14:51<Yexo>it's be new as distribution for openttd
14:53<planetmaker>petern, you produce the port to the 6800 processor type? :)
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't even know what a 6800 processor is
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember that 68000 was some kind of amiga processor
15:03<@petern>well it's a motorola cpu, like the 68000 is
15:06<@petern>planetmaker, and no, we can just use the same media
15:06<planetmaker>ah, ok :P
15:06<planetmaker>I read something like 4kB capacity. Sounds like fun ;)
15:07<@petern>you might need a few discs, yeah
15:07<@petern>then you sell the first edition for 99p, and the rest are £7.99
15:07<+glx>hehe
15:10<@petern>http://trainsimdownloads.com/photos/TrainYard_01.jpg
15:10<@petern>^ anyone done that in ottd? ;p
15:12<DJ_Nekkid>opencoop guys have probably made something similar :p
15:13<KenjiE20>I tend to dot little yards around in games I play
15:13<KenjiE20>offline I like to stash old replaced stock in them
15:21-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
15:23<+glx>there's an invisible engine to do that IIRC
15:24-!-NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:24<planetmaker>there are a few eye-candy games where people build very intricate stations like that
15:25<andythenorth>there's a switchyard in isr
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>i found the switchyard in ISR too unflexible
15:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: make suggestions in the isr thread :)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>some teaser shots of MB's stations had rolling stock etc. on them, but lord knows when that is ever coming out
15:26-!-DJ_Nekkid [~tmsmje@static128-249.adsl.no] has left #openttd []
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2021.%20Okt%201925.png
15:30<planetmaker>404
15:30<planetmaker>not really. :P
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>it's working here...
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>safari is known to have problems with the comma, though
15:30<planetmaker>I'm using FF regardless of platform. :)
15:31<planetmaker>somewhere a trailing slash appeared here.
15:31<planetmaker>but nvm :)
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16:33<PeterT>hi
16:33<PeterT>any ottd developers here?
16:33<Yexo>yes
16:33<PeterT>that i could talk to
16:33<PeterT>hey
16:34<PeterT>this is peter, that you helped with patching
16:34<Yexo>hello PeterT
16:35<PeterT>ok, can i suggest something in openttd console?
16:35<Yexo>sure, suggest whatever you want
16:35<planetmaker>you can try :P
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>that is the 3rd useless question
16:36<PeterT>ok
16:36<PeterT>could you put in a time for things that happen, like chats, when players join, just for the server?
16:37<Yexo>we could do that yes
16:37<PeterT>because its hard for me to determine who i need to ban when i dont know when they join
16:37<PeterT>thanks :)
16:37<+glx>already suggested
16:37<Yexo>I'm not waying someone will
16:37<Yexo>just that it's possible :)
16:37<PeterT>its not too much coding?
16:37<Yexo>I guess not
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>a couple dozen lines tops
16:38*planetmaker shuckles
16:38-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>so one day of work, including research for timestamp formatting functions
16:38<PeterT>ok great
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>that makes 1500€
16:38<planetmaker>:D
16:38<Yexo>nice one :)
16:39<SmatZ>:-)
16:39*SmatZ would do that for "one zero less" euros / day ;)
16:39<planetmaker>dumping!
16:39<SmatZ>:-D
16:40<PeterT>lol
16:40<PeterT>thanks everyone
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, only 1/4th of that would be the programmer's wage
16:41<planetmaker>given the pay rolls in public employment, 150€ / day is not what my university will rent me out to industry on.
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>and generally, for IT projects, you get paid for what the customer wants to pay for, not where the work actually goes.
16:42<PeterT>so what else is new?
16:42-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-217-162.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, that means you charge extra for the parts that get demanded, and cross-finance the work that actually has to be done in the background
16:43-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-217-162.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
16:43<SmatZ>3/4 of the price for the "background" job?
16:43<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it's about 50€ / h + 70% overhead for infrastructure
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>no, half of that goes away for taxes and stuff
16:43<planetmaker>official guidelines
16:43<SmatZ>ah
16:44<planetmaker>no, that's not what _I_ get. What university gets.
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>7,11€/h was what i got as a "Hiwi"
16:44<planetmaker>he, yes. It's 7,98€ / h now
16:45<planetmaker>quite cheap labour ;)
16:46<SmatZ>:(
16:47<planetmaker>SmatZ: "HiWi" = students employed at university
16:47<planetmaker>@calc 7.98 * 160
16:47<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1276.8
16:47<planetmaker>hm...
16:48<SmatZ>still you have higher wage than most of university teachers here (but yes, your expenses are higher too)
16:48<PeterT>@calc 1134
16:48<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 1134
16:48<PeterT>@calc 1134
16:48<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 1134
16:48<PeterT>@calc 1134
16:48<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 1134
16:49<PeterT>@calc 1134 * x - 2 = 12 + x / 2
16:49<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
16:49<planetmaker>well... it's not my wage. It what university charges others, if we do contract work
16:49-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [1134]
16:49<SmatZ>:(
16:49-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:49<planetmaker>my wage is unfortunately lower...
16:49<PeterT>???
16:49<PeterT>why was i kicked?
16:49<planetmaker>PeterT: spamming
16:49<Lakie>Spam?
16:49<PeterT>not spam, look at what i had
16:49<PeterT>@calc 1134 * x - 2 = 12 + x / 2
16:49<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
16:50<PeterT>why doesnt that work
16:50<PeterT>does it do variables
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>why would it?
16:50<PeterT>@calc 1134 * x - 2 = 12 + x / 2
16:50<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
16:50<Yexo>probably becuase it doesn't solve equations
16:50<KenjiE20>how would the bot know what 'x' is?
16:50<SmatZ>hehe
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's a calculator, not an algebraic solver
16:50<Yexo>PeterT: you can msg dorpsgek privatly
16:50-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.113.137.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50<@Belugas>night all
16:51<PeterT>i guess
16:51<planetmaker>SmatZ: it's actually WAY less what I get...
16:51<Yexo>bye Belugas
16:51<planetmaker>bye Belugas
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16:53<dihedral>amazon page on a laptop: weight: 4.3Kg, weight incl. packaging: 3.3Kg :-D
16:54<SmatZ>planetmaker: I suppose you can earn money is some other way too :) I am "working" as "student helping force" or what for ~2€/ hour :-p But just ~3h/week, and I am not teaching or anything like that
16:54<PeterT>!password
16:54-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
16:54<SmatZ>haha
16:54-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:54<PeterT>kicked for a command?
16:54<PeterT>wow?
16:54<planetmaker>lol :)
16:54<Yexo>several people are/were trying that here instead of in #openttdcoop
16:54<Yexo>so may that it became annoying
16:55<SmatZ>they try it once, they get no reply, so they try it again
16:55<Yexo>s/may/many/
16:55-!-Zantor [user@ppp-70-242-157-2.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #openttd
16:55<SmatZ>until someone tells them they are in a wrong channel
16:55<Zantor>anyone around?
16:55<SmatZ>nope
16:55<Zantor>lol
16:55<planetmaker>never ever
16:55<Yexo>we're all gone
16:55<Zantor>you are :P
16:55<Zantor>I have a problem
16:55<Zantor>and it may be a common one
16:55<SmatZ>so do I :(
16:55<planetmaker>no. I am a-square
16:55<SmatZ>:-D
16:55<Yexo>I have problems too
16:56<Zantor>I just downloaded and installed OTTD 0.7.1 and i get an error when I run it
16:56<planetmaker>Yexo, you know, we can talk about everything :) Here.
16:56<Zantor>cannot open file simple.cat
16:56<planetmaker>read again ;)
16:56<SmatZ>Zantor: readme.txt ?
16:56<planetmaker>it sais sample.cat
16:56<Yexo>planetmaker: you can tell me how to code a animated station tile in nfo?
16:56<SmatZ>haha
16:56<Zantor>o
16:56<Zantor>sample
16:56<Zantor>blame me for misreading
16:57<planetmaker>Yexo: in principle yes. In reality I haven't done it, though :)
16:57<Zantor>but I don't have a TTD CD!
16:57<planetmaker>So it breaks down to: I'm probably as knowledgable as you as I'd use the wiki heavily, too :)
16:57<planetmaker>Zantor: then get OpenGFX
16:57<Yexo>Zantor: do you have a graphics set?
16:57<SmatZ>Zantor: umm buy one
16:57<Yexo>planetmaker: I'm trying to use the wiki
16:57<Yexo>but it's still hard
16:57<planetmaker>yes, I know...
16:57<Zantor>well I didn't have this issue with 0.6.3 or 0.7.0
16:58<planetmaker>Zantor: then copy your data folder to your new install
16:58<Yexo>Zantor: just create an empty sample.cat
16:58<Zantor>this is a fresh install
16:58-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:58<planetmaker>so, how did your old installs work then? They have / had exactly the same requirements.
16:58<SmatZ>hmm I think empty sample.cat needs patched binary
16:58<SmatZ>I may be wrong of course
16:59<Zantor>I'm not sure
16:59<Zantor>I extracted the stuff my brother gave me and it worked
16:59<planetmaker>SmatZ: no, it's ok.
16:59<planetmaker>you just get a message about a corrupted file, but it's fine.
17:00<planetmaker>well. Any case you need a base graphics set.
17:00<Zantor>I was using what came with OTTD before
17:00<planetmaker>either you take the one from TTD
17:00<planetmaker>or you get OpenGFX
17:00<planetmaker>OpenTTD comes without any base graphics
17:00<planetmaker>and always did
17:00<Yexo>there never was a base graphics set included in any official openttd package
17:01<planetmaker>that may (hopefully) change, once OpenGFX is finished, though ;)
17:01<Zantor>AHA
17:01<Zantor>I found the archive file with the needed files!
17:01<planetmaker>good that we talked about it ;)
17:01<Zantor>glad I found it; THIS is why I keep archives
17:02<Yexo>just put the files in My Documents/OpenTTD/data and they'll be used by all future installations
17:02<Yexo>so this problem won't happen with your next installation
17:02<dihedral>all to be read in the readme.txt file
17:02<Zantor>it's working!
17:02<Zantor>thank you for t3h help
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>what?
17:03<Zantor>lol
17:03<Zantor>t3h is l33t for teh or the
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>can you repeat that in english?
17:03<Yexo>see topic :)
17:03<Zantor>ph33r my l33t h4x0r talk!
17:03<Zantor>:P
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time, this was a ban reason
17:04<Zantor>I'm not excessive about it
17:04<Zantor>jeez
17:04<dihedral>i thought it still was ban reason
17:04<dihedral>or at least kick reason
17:04<Yexo>as long as it happens only occasionally and not structurally it's not problem imo
17:04-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.113.137.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<dihedral>Zantor: just a thing to remember - not all communities on the net are wiled about leet
17:05<dihedral>_ln for example seems to have a highlight as soon as someone doesnt use ' :-D
17:06<dihedral>he/she/it then goes on terribly
17:06<dihedral>however leet is not really very welcome around here :-P
17:07<dihedral>perhaps some doom channels over at freenode will welcome you for it though
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17:09<andythenorth>animated loader nfo. one tile: 5251 lines of code
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17:12<dihedral>Rubidium: r16592 <- what happens when a client gets kicked / banned?
17:14<@petern>GOD KILLS A KITTEN
17:14<dihedral>i thought that happens because of other stuff :-D
17:15<dihedral>(11:15:00 PM) dihedral: !rcon kick 3
17:15<dihedral>(11:15:00 PM) Mrs_Console: dihedral: *** dihedraI has left the game (kicked by server)
17:15<dihedral>(11:15:00 PM) Mrs_Console: dihedral: *** dihedraI has left the game (connection lost)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>god is a kitten murdering bastard
17:15<dihedral>hehe
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>he will kill kittens for anything
17:16<Westie>yay
17:16<dihedral>can someone reopen FS#2880 :-P
17:16<dihedral>it's not quite fixed
17:16<dihedral>:-D
17:16<dihedral>the fix only concerns quit's not kick or ban :-P
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's a ' too much ;)
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17:40<Sacro>grr
17:40<Sacro>how do youset the version?
17:41<Yexo>what version?
17:41<Prof_Frink>of the internet.
17:41<Sacro>in openttd :P
17:41<Sacro>I thought nit was REV=
17:41<Sacro>but it no worky :(
17:42<SmatZ>configure --help?
17:43<Sacro>oh yes
17:48<z-MaTRiX>hey-hoo
17:48<z-MaTRiX>SmatZ<< \o/
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17:52<tosse>in an ongoing multiplayer game, can i change improved_load from false to true?
17:53-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F2CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:53<Yexo>did you try?
17:53<tosse>in the main menu, i set it to true, but when i load the game, its off, and the button is pink and can't be changed
17:54<tosse>i also changed the value in openttd.cfg
17:54<Yexo>changes in the main menu have no effect on previously created savegames
17:54<Yexo>and improved_load can't be changed in a network game
17:54<Yexo>you can load the game in sp, change the value, save the game and load it again in mp
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17:55<Sacro>hmm, nthink i'm getting zlib issues
17:55<Sacro>dbg: [misc] Nested widgets give different results
17:55<Sacro>dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
17:55<Sacro>Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size
17:55<Sacro>Segmentation fault
17:55<Yexo>dbg: [misc] Nested widgets give different results <- that one is expected
17:55<tosse>Yexo: that worked! thanks :)
17:57<Sacro>Yexo: yes, but the others? :P
17:57<Yexo>invalid chunk size normall indicaetes you're trying to load a savegame saved with a patched version in clean trunk / stable version
17:58<Yexo>if that happens with trunk on a previous trunk savegame something is seriously broken
17:58-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:59<Sacro>no no, this is IS3
18:00<Yexo>and you tried to load a recent trunk save?
18:00<Yexo>or a savegame from is2?
18:01<Sacro>hmm
18:01<Sacro>i think I have the wrong rev
18:01<Yexo>is3 can't load savegames from is2
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18:01<Sacro>hmm,
18:02<Sacro>what#s the hg equivalent of svn up -r
18:02<@Rubidium>man hg?
18:03<Yexo>hg up -r
18:03<Sacro>Rubidium: yes, I wanted a specific bit :p
18:03<Yexo>you may need hg pull first
18:03<Sacro>I did a clone
18:03<@Rubidium>the commands bit of the hg manual?
18:03<@Rubidium>and of that the almost last bit
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18:04<Sacro>hg update did it
18:05<Yexo>ok, what do I have to do to make a simple animated station tile?
18:05<@petern>hoops
18:05<@petern>jump through them
18:05<Yexo>I have defined multiple sprite layouts via action 0, I've set prop 16 to 01 01
18:05<@Rubidium>rip-off an existing grf with animated stations, preferably one under an acceptable license
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>i think using the word "simple" in that context is quite an understatement :p
18:06<Yexo>most likely :p
18:06<@Rubidium>hmm... actually...
18:06<@Rubidium>a simple animated station tile == a non animated station tile with action colours
18:07<Yexo>yes, but that's not the sort of animation I'm looking for ;p
18:07<DaleStan>Yexo: Check var ... whichever one it is that provides current animation frame. Either in CB 14 or in the graphics lookup.
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose those can only blink, flow, or blow up :p
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18:11<Yexo>http://paste.openttd.org/183429 This is my latest nfo. I fail to see how to link the cb to my station tiles
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18:12<Yexo>and I don't get the nforenum warning: //!!For feature 4 the following cargoIDs have not been used since their most recent definition:
18:12<DaleStan>CB14 selects the prop 09 layout that should be drawn for that tile.
18:13<Yexo>yes, that's what I'm trying to do
18:14<Yexo>I've defined 4 prop 09 layouts, and cb14 should chose 0/1 for animated state 0, and 2/3 for animated state 1
18:14<DaleStan>And that warning is "unreferenced action 2".
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16597 /branches/0.7/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Also catch FPEs in saveload and the warning about missing NewGRFs; only happens when assertions are disabled and NewGRFs are missing (r16572)
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: In some cases, train could be stuck in depot [FS#2974] (r16571)
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIMarine::AreWaterTilesConnected did not return true for bridge head<>neighbouring water tile (r16563)
18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Removing of duplicates of base graphics set could behave randomly (r16548)
18:15<Yexo>I get that warning on my varaction 2 sprite that should be my cb 14
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16598 /branches/0.7/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Mouse would under some circumstances not be undrawn when drawing the first chat line causing two mouse pointers to be visible [FS#2969] (r16594)
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not crash when tars/NewGRFs are removed, just tell the file could not be opened/found [FS#2967] (r16590)
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Set default stack size to 1MB to prevent _chstk crash (MSVC) [FS#2978] (r16589, r16588)
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Network] Always send the starting date from the game you are currently playing instead the starting date from the config file (r16573)
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18:17<DaleStan>That's because your action 3 goes straight to your graphics, not to the callback-check.
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18:24<Yexo>thanks a lot DaleStan :)
18:25<Yexo>now I'm sure the cb is called
18:25<Yexo>now to figure out why either the animation frame doesn't change or I don't check it correctly
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18:34<Yexo>do I need to implement cb 140 to increase the animation frame?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't it be easier to start with an example?
18:34-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>and complement a tutorial while you're at it ;)
18:35<Yexo>the problem with the exesting newgrfs it that they're way too big
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18:41<Yexo>nvm, I should just read the specs more carefully
18:51<+glx>hmm I have a small station animation grf IIRC
18:51<Yexo>I just got it working :D
18:51<Yexo>only it animates now every tick
18:52<Yexo>but I know why that is I think :)
18:57<+glx>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/ottd/data/stations/statanim.grf and http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/ottd/data/stations/statanim/
18:57<SmatZ>Impossible d'afficher la page
18:57<+glx>nfo is http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/ottd/data/stations/sprites/
18:58<SmatZ>403
18:58<Yexo>same here
18:58<DaleStan>Works for me.
18:59<SmatZ>interesting
18:59<Ammler>he might call the nfo directly ;-)
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>403 here, too
18:59<DaleStan>Does your proxy not like sites not running on port 80?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>too many connections it says
19:00<Yexo>I don't use a proxy
19:00<+glx>it's a home IIS, so it may be limited :)
19:00<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: ah, true :)
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>"Trop d'utilisateurs connectés"
19:01<+glx>I can't increase that
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>should have given the link in private ;)
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19:02<+glx>well the problem is probably the link to grf2html page :)
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19:11<SmatZ>@seen KUDr
19:11<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 6 days, 8 hours, 10 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <KUDr> hi
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19:40<Eddi|zuHause>hm... apparently, in hungaria, a lot of people took loans in foreign currency (e.g. SFr), and are now suffering from the decay of their currency
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20:10<Svelix>Hi
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20:27<Eddi|zuHause>there is nothing to see here
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>move along
20:33*Sacro moves along
20:49<lolman>Sacro: these aren't the droids you're looking for
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22:07<goodger>hey, is OTTD Turing complete yet?
22:08<goodger>my doctor has ordered me to do something worthwhile, but I still want to build an 8086 using openttd signalling structures
22:12<reldred>^_-
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22:16<goodger>...
22:32<Eddi|zuHause>check out the logic gates at openttdcoop
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>but i believe that uses a custom build
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>not sure
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>problem might be some game limitations. if you assume that you need one train per gate, you cannot have more than 5000 gates
22:40<reldred>Or build it like an actual CPU, make a master depot with 5000 trains that operates as the common power supply.
22:41<reldred>Ofcourse an actual 8086 had crazy requirements, +5V and -5V and I think a +20V supply I think
22:41<reldred>Can't remember exactly
22:41<Eddi|zuHause>typical values are +5 and +12
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22:42<reldred>I'm pretty sure it required a -5V supply somewhere
22:42<xali>hey people, anyone could help me on a doubt about the game?
22:42<Eddi|zuHause>values other than +5V are usually only for analogue circuts
22:43<reldred>Back in the day the 8086 and another processor were in competition and part of the reason why the other processor (even though they both implemented the same instruction set) won out over the 8086 was because it only required the one common power supply rather than + and - sources of different voltages.
22:43<reldred>Atleast that's what I read, when the 8086 was still current I would have been in diapers.
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>the first computer i remember the specs of was a 386
22:44<@Belugas>meeeeeh...
22:45<Eddi|zuHause>i actually still have that computer, it's lying on a big stack of electronics over here...
22:45<@Belugas>i do clearly remember seeing it all...
22:45<@Belugas>been there
22:45<@Belugas>feels like not too long ago
22:45<Eddi|zuHause>i used computers before that, but i don't know what they were
22:46<@Belugas>calculators!
22:46<@Belugas>watches!
22:46<@Belugas>bed
22:46-!-KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host81-156-5-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:46<@Belugas>pooooof
22:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, bed at 4:46
22:46<Eddi|zuHause>could be a nice idea
22:46<xali>no one?
22:47<Eddi|zuHause>xali: you did not ask a question.
22:47<reldred>god these damn ip phones take a while to configure individually...
22:48<reldred>I mean I could do crazy dynamic DHCP autoconfiguring stuff, but that's a bit beyond the scope of this job
22:48<reldred>and wouldn't negate the need for getting the mac address of every handset anyway -_-
22:50<xali>ok, the thing is... when i play it in single player mode, the opponent doesn't build anything, i don't know if I haven't played enough for it to start building things, or if the game is not working properly. you guys know anything about it?
22:51<DeGhost>u could build a logic gate with 3 trains
22:51<DeGhost>well a not gate :o
22:51<DeGhost>with any trains
22:55<Eddi|zuHause>xali: have you actually read the stuff that the game tells you?
22:56<xali>no I haven't
22:56<xali>what would it be?
22:56<Eddi|zuHause>like, there could be a message like "this AI doesn't do anything, download a real AI first"
22:56<reldred>I suspect it might be lunch time, hmmm
22:57<xali>the game does not come with an AI system installed yet?
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>the game comes with an AI system, but not with an AI implementation
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>there's an ingame download menu
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>just use that.
22:57<xali>humm
22:57<xali>so i need to download one.. i see
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's a matter of three mouse clicks
22:58<xali>would recommend me any?
22:58<xali>i will do it now
22:58<xali>thanks a lot for the advice
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 19 00:00:52 2009