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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-02

---Logopened Thu Jul 02 00:00:26 2009
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04:00<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i am growing insane...
04:01<Eddi|zuHause>i read a text that said "[...] uses the following logic:"
04:01<Eddi|zuHause>and i read it as "[...] uses the following magic:"
04:01<planetmaker>those things can be relatively close together.
04:02<planetmaker>Especially, if you employ proofs as "is easily visible" etc
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04:15<Nite_Owl>Hello all
04:15<@petern>hmm, i suppose my non-front-engine patch is totally busted by now :D
04:16<Noldo>petern is the euler of openttd
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04:18<@petern>^ not really
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04:19*petern ponders calling it 'freeform consists', heh
04:20<@petern>hmm, that was 6 months ago :s
04:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, hierarchical consists could be useful
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>especially when they don't require an engine to give orders etc.
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>could help in the process of dynamically reconfiguring the consists
04:22<Noldo>eddi is dreaming about shunting again
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04:56<dihedral>nice one petern
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04:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16721 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make Is/SetRoadVehicleFront, Is/Set/HasArticulatedPart member of RoadVehicle.
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05:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16722 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: unify the naming of the Is/Set/HasArticulatedPart functions
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05:37<@petern>server is slow :s
05:37*SirSquidness injects some more magic smoke in to petern's server
05:37<SirSquidness>that should help a bit.
05:37<SirSquidness>dont' go letting the magic smoke escape though.
05:37<@petern>not mine
05:38<SirSquidness>oh, well, keep teh magic smoke. Not worth extracting it out again. :p
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05:51<greg>hi how do i get a .patch file to work with the latest revision
05:52<Noldo>you don't
05:54<@petern>especially not that ancient one
05:55<@Rubidium>though I guess people will do it for you at the right price
05:57<Noldo>that's a bargain
05:57<@Rubidium>Noldo: it's him starting price, add 300$ for each hour worked on it
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05:58<Noldo>Rubidium: ah
05:58<TrueBrain>special offer for you, because I like you so much: 500$!
05:59<greg>cant u just tell me
06:00<Noldo>greg: updating a patch basically rewriting it so that it fits with the changes in the trunk
06:00<TrueBrain>roses are red
06:00<TrueBrain>violets are blue
06:00<Noldo>if you can't write a patch you can't update on either
06:00<@Rubidium>you don't know C++
06:00<@Rubidium>so you have no clue
06:00<greg>where do i learn C++
06:00<TrueBrain>a book?
06:00<greg>wht book
06:00<TrueBrain>a 'Learn C++' book?
06:01<Noldo>greg: just forget it
06:01<greg>Where can i find that book exept the library
06:01<TrueBrain>a bookstore?
06:01<@Rubidium>ebay, amazon?
06:01<TrueBrain>this is getting silly ...
06:01<Noldo>TrueBrain: reallt?
06:02<greg> google ftw
06:02<TrueBrain>oh, and now he realises ...
06:02<@Rubidium> <- some good suggestions in there
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06:18<LadyHawk>do a google search for 'c++ for dummies'
06:18<LadyHawk>it's a huge book starting from the beginning
06:19<TrueBrain>in the beginning, there was Fortran
06:19<TrueBrain>lol :p
06:19<TrueBrain>should be a boring book :)
06:19<FauxFaux>You people make ##c++ very sad.
06:19<Noldo>TrueBrain: you are having a good day aren't you?
06:19<TrueBrain>Noldo: yuppers :)
06:19<LadyHawk>well everyone started off not knowing c++
06:19<@Rubidium>in the beginning there was ... wire and solder
06:20<LadyHawk>i remember reading through that c++ for dummies book, got to page 240 or something
06:21<LadyHawk>then gave up, i had nothing to code and that book has no 'tests'
06:21<TrueBrain>I never read any C(++) book :p
06:21<LadyHawk>it's just reading so it doesn't stick
06:21<TrueBrain>the best way to learn is by doing it :)
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06:22<@Rubidium>the best way to learn stuff is by a huge metal pin stuffed into your neck
06:22<TrueBrain>and for who ever doubts I am sane: <- requires linux + ncurses (via a terminal of course); you can only quit by killing the application. Make sure to disable your numlock in order to move the player :p And .. sorry about the binary size :)
06:23<LadyHawk>the matrix
06:24<LadyHawk>maybe one day everyone will have a chip implanted into their brains
06:25<LadyHawk>so you can upload data and learn something instantly
06:28*Rubidium would like to point out that I came to this forum after the "White Rabbit" ;)
06:31<@petern>maybe one day everyone will have a chip implanted into their brains
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06:31<@petern>so the governments can track everyone
06:32<@Rubidium>not one that's biologically growns as in "Taken"?
06:32<@Rubidium>although, if it's biologically grown you can turn it off yourself, so I guess for the intended government use they want something that can't be turned off
06:33<LadyHawk>sadly, i think petern's idea about that chip is more likely than mine
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06:42<Westie>it's probably already happened
06:42*Westie points to rfid
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06:49<Eddi|zuHause><Noldo> eddi is dreaming about shunting again <- yes, and i won't let people like you keep me from doing it :p
06:50<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: oh, I'm not keeping you :)
06:50<@Rubidium>but implementing it would keep it from being a dream
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06:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i tried getting people to implement it... but there are no takers...
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07:01<rlogiacco>is it possible to sabotage computer competitors? old school sabotage tactics seem to fail in openttd
07:01<planetmaker>why do you want to sabotage them?
07:01<planetmaker>And yes, most (all?) cheating is disabled.
07:01<planetmaker>As they could be considered bugs. Not features.
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07:03<Eddi|zuHause>rlogiacco: the only way to beat the competition is to get higher rating or exclusive rights
07:04<rlogiacco>well, i wish to sabotage them because they have advantages over human players
07:04<rlogiacco>like free terrain leveling and superb ratings which doesn't drop
07:05<FauxFaux>Oh no they don't!
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07:07<rlogiacco>??? sure?
07:07<rlogiacco>i've a pc competitor with vey good ratings with one train only servicing that line....
07:07<@petern>you should try 0.7 :D
07:08<rlogiacco>well, i'm playing 0.6 to be honest
07:08<@petern>AIs have no advantage in 0.7.x
07:09<rlogiacco>ok, i'll try to beat them without sabotage.... but it will be hard... very hard :)
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>really, you should update to 0.7.x
07:19<LadyHawk>i remember that
07:19<LadyHawk>you could zoom out as far as possible and the whole screen would be 1 huge leveling place
07:19<LadyHawk>until the AI found a spot to drop a station
07:21<LadyHawk>and the AI would have odd station ratings, 98% with a tiny train that's almost exploding from old age and the station almost exploding from cargo
07:21<LadyHawk>you buy them out and station rating would drop to poor
07:21<LadyHawk>ahh the old days
07:22<LadyHawk>there's only 1 AI change that i don't like
07:22<LadyHawk>the original TTD had AI's very slow build speed as actually very slow
07:22<LadyHawk>a speed a human being can keep up with
07:23<LadyHawk>i loved that because i always used to play along the AI
07:23<LadyHawk>but now very slow is insanely fast
07:23<LadyHawk>can't play no more, by the time you managed to block him off he's already 50% done
07:24<LadyHawk>and by the time you manage to clone the AI's stations next to his own, he's already removed it because it's 'impossible' to finish
07:36<rlogiacco>thank you all
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07:41<@Rubidium>LadyHawk: just give it less ops per tick (advanced setting)
07:41<@Rubidium>and reduce it's building speed
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07:49<Eddi|zuHause>LadyHawk: the old AI got bonus on station rating depending on difficulty
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07:59<LadyHawk>Rubidium, is that the "#opcodes before AI is suspended" thing?
07:59<LadyHawk>ahh thanks, i left it alone because i couldn't figure out what it ment
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08:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16723 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make GetNextArticPart(), GetLastEnginePart(), GetNextVehicle(), GetPrevVehicle(), GetNextUnit(), GetPrevUnit() members of Train
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08:13<TrueBrain>it is so hot ...
08:13<@Rubidium>doing code changes is hot?
08:13<TrueBrain>no, the weather outside is
08:13<SmatZ>for some it is
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08:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16724 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_types.hpp subsidy_base.h): -Fix (r16714): MSVC 64bit warnings (Rubidium)
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08:52<kieran491>Hi there
08:54<kieran491>you wouldn't happen to know how to increase a servers speed?
08:54<TrueBrain>buy a new CPU? :)
08:54<SmatZ>buy faster CPU
08:54<kieran491>the CPU is fine
08:54*TrueBrain hugs SmatZ :)
08:54<kieran491>i mean actual game speed
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08:55<SmatZ>there are some "daylength" patches out there
08:55<kieran491>openttd (dedicated) is only using 2% of CPU
08:55<SmatZ>but they may ruin the economy :-p
08:55<@petern>it should be 2.2 seconds per day
08:56<kieran491>i was hoping to be able i could ajust a varible or somthing simular to increase the game speed
08:56<kieran491>so not doable?
08:57<SmatZ>not without modifying game source
08:57<SmatZ>or your hardware
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08:57<SmatZ>or your OS
08:57<kieran491>how would my hardware effect the game to that extent
08:58<SmatZ>you could make the system timer faster
08:58<kieran491>im running the server of a Mandriva
08:58<kieran491>its running on a.... i think 3200+ athlon amd
08:58<TrueBrain>I feel a BOFH coming up ... :p
08:59<kieran491>The Bastard Operator From Hell?
08:59<TrueBrain>kieran491: as said before, the amount of gamedays per minute is predefined
08:59<TrueBrain>if you want to change that, you need to modify the source
09:00<SmatZ>yeah, using solder to replace your system timer by "faster" one (in current systems you would probably need to replace NB for that... or maybe even the CPU, it's not doable anymore)
09:01<kieran491>uhh huu
09:04<kieran491>what controlls does a dedicated server have over the overall game?
09:05<SmatZ>kicking players
09:05<SmatZ>loading game
09:05<SmatZ>saving game
09:05<SmatZ>stopping server
09:05<SmatZ>banning players
09:05<SmatZ>unbanning players
09:06<SmatZ>setting town growth rate
09:06<kieran491>so not much
09:06<kieran491>thats a bugger
09:06<SmatZ>I could write ~100 patch settings you can set as a dedicated server
09:06<SmatZ>but it's just boring thing to do
09:06<SmatZ>what would you expect?
09:07<kieran491>Ohh i dont know more than that at least...
09:07<kieran491>Also i find it annoying that you have to use a 3rd party bot to be able to gather any decent stats and etc
09:10<TrueBrain>make a patch
09:10<kieran491>i dont know that much about C++ to be able to even consider making a patch...
09:11<SmatZ>actually, I am not sure if that should be done inside OTTD
09:11<SmatZ>I think 3rd party tool is better for that
09:11<SmatZ>bloating with non-relevant code and such...
09:12<kieran491>SmatZ: it agree where your coming from but that means the bot or program is sitting in the actual game it would be nice though if the game could pipe of infomation to another such program with out the program having to join as a player
09:12<TrueBrain>then you never looked into those 3rd party applications
09:12<kieran491>i looked at the python one
09:13<kieran491>but i was unable to find anyinfomation
09:13<kieran491>for other alternitives
09:14<kieran491>its OpenTTD-Python if you know of any others i am more than intrested
09:16<kieran491>isn't that just for setup the config file
09:17<@Belugas>then it would be called autoconfig, don't you think?
09:17<@Belugas>not PILOT
09:17<kieran491>THANK YOU :)\
09:17<Ammler>there are also some configurator tools around...
09:18<@Rubidium>Belugas: but but... Airbus pilots configure the plane, they don't control it
09:20<kieran491>Tcl never heard of that langue
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09:21<dihedral>nice language
09:21<dihedral>i like it
09:22<dihedral>who mentioned it?
09:22*dihedral reads back
09:22<dihedral>ah, autopilot
09:22<dihedral>yeah :-)
09:22<dihedral>windows or posix system?
09:23<dihedral>well, then you can use ap+ or avignon (which still has not seen it's first release, but is close to it)
09:24<kieran491>whats this for sorry?
09:25<dihedral>ap+ is built on autopilot
09:25<dihedral>avignon is a rewrite
09:25<kieran491>ohh ok
09:25<kieran491>which of the two has more hooks?
09:26<@Belugas>Rubidium, and when they do, it's when it crashes!
09:26<dihedral>what do you want to do kieran491
09:26<kieran491>i dont know yet i have some ideas like recording stats and etc but i would like to see what i can do
09:27<dihedral>avignon will probably be your better solution
09:27<dihedral>we have not done our alpha release yet, but it has a nice plugin api
09:27<kieran491>is the python solution any good?
09:27<dihedral>+ if it needs extending, we are happy to help
09:27<dihedral>what python solution?
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09:29<dihedral>if i am not totally mistaken, that is a patch for openttd 0.7
09:29<@Rubidium>the python thingy heavily relies on the format of the network protocol
09:29<@Rubidium>that protocol can change at any moment making it completely unuseable
09:29<kieran491>but isn't that how the others work?
09:30<@Rubidium>especailly the part the python thingy relies on
09:30<dihedral>ah - i was mistaken
09:30<@Rubidium>kieran491: no
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09:30<dihedral>it's yoricks work, i would 1. not rely on that, 2. it uses a client connection
09:30<dihedral>the autopilot stuff wraps the dedicated server console
09:30<dihedral>input and output
09:30<kieran491>sweet that what i want to hear
09:30<kieran491>much better
09:31<kieran491>where can i find avignon?
09:31<dihedral>for support feel free to ask me :-P
09:31<kieran491>:) i will
09:31<kieran491>is tcl easy to learn?
09:32<dihedral>pretty much, yes
09:32<dihedral>different, but very easy
09:32<Ammler>with ap and a bit patching, you could make things like
09:32<dihedral>some people dont like it
09:33<dihedral>Ammler, nice one :)
09:33<planetmaker>indeed :)
09:33<planetmaker>Ammler, which time frame is that?
09:33<Ammler>game 140, ODM's pareser
09:33<kieran491>ohh can tcl contact a mysql server?
09:34<Ammler>ap does
09:34<planetmaker>Ammler, we should add that to the archive of "who played" :)
09:34<planetmaker>would make lists BIG, though :P
09:34<Ammler>dunno, if avignon already does too?
09:34<dihedral>kieran491, if you have the right module installed, yes
09:34<planetmaker>and I guess it contains also spectators.
09:34<dihedral>there is a tclmysql lib
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09:35<kieran491>whats the address for the tcl site?
09:35<dihedral>we use version 8.5
09:35<Ammler> <-- more ugly ;-)
09:36<dihedral>more interesting i'd say
09:36<dihedral>now a overall 'hours played' :-D
09:36<dihedral>or rather months
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09:41<SmatZ>I got an idea... next time I get advert call, I start yelling in the phone
09:41<SmatZ>I wonder how long it will take until they understand I am crazy
09:41<SmatZ>and stop bigging me
09:42<SmatZ>I can yell very loud
09:42<TrueBrain>what was your number? :)
09:43<@Rubidium>SmatZ: you're doing something wrong
09:43<@Rubidium>you should try to waste as MUCH of their time as possible
09:44<@Rubidium>wasting their time costs the person their job (they must have X succesful calls a day) and the company paying for the job money for no gain
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09:45<dihedral>hehe i like that ide
09:46<@Rubidium>just stall them with things
09:46<@Rubidium>could you please hold on, I'm going to get a pen and paper
09:47<@Rubidium>then after a minute tell them you're still searching for a pen etc.
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09:47<@Rubidium>won't cost you much time, assuming you've got a mobile-ish phone
09:47<@Rubidium>unless you have to pay for incoming calls
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09:54*Belugas likes to engage converstation with those poor folks. Like... give me the address of your company, which # to reach, how good/bad are your conditions, do yo believe in God, in Jehova, in Rael, in Belzebuth, is that product so good? have you tried it? No, my i am in an assilum during the day, part of my therapy...
09:54<@Belugas>funny results sometimes...
09:55<@Belugas>once i heard " Ho no... not him again" and Click... hangup ^)^
09:58<dihedral>i once engaged in a conversation with someone who wanted to sell windows - it took him quite some time until he found out that i was renting a room in a flat share :-D
10:02<FauxFaux>THe thing that annoys me most is when they won't get to the point.
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10:03<FauxFaux>I sit there pretending I'm holding down enter to skip the cutscenes; saying "yeah, and" over and over.
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10:35<@Belugas>one could try to speak with mouth full of chips or something alike
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10:38<dihedral>hehe - imagine them calling a phone-sex company :-P
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12:52<frosch123>sorry orudge, but when the forums produce an annoying laugthter every few seconds, then I have to enable the ad-blocker :s
12:55<dihedral>i feel the same
12:55<TrueBrain>I don't feel anything :(
12:55<dihedral>but it's only when you go over it with your mouse frosch123
12:56<frosch123>don't know, did not notice
12:57<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you've got CIPA?
12:57<TrueBrain>no; I am not real
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12:57<dpaanlka>Hello everyone.
12:57<TrueBrain>howdie dpaanlka
12:58<dpaanlka>I vaguely recall in the good old days of Transport Tycoon, there was a setting where when a company went bankrupt it's tracks would remian and be available for use by anyone.
12:58<dpaanlka>Does anyone else remember that or am I delusional?
12:59<SpComb>I think you're delusional
12:59<frosch123>it is like that for roads and canals :)
12:59<frosch123>except bridges
13:00<dpaanlka>I'm so sure of it.
13:00<Ammler>does someone still have a stable (old) nforenum build?
13:00<Ammler>for linux
13:00<frosch123>Ammler: pass a -r option to svn up ?
13:01<TrueBrain>no, that would make sense
13:01<Ammler>frosch123: I am not able anymore to compile it, I guess, my boost is too new, now.
13:05<@Rubidium>Ammler: then install the older one next to it. How hard can it be?
13:06<Ammler>well, I use the windows version with wine.
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13:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16725 /trunk/src/industry.h: -Documentation: raw_industry_cost_multiplier
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: why does it have to be stable?
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13:18<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: there is a bug with escapes on the newer which fails firs compile
13:18<Ammler>I guess, it is reported in the forums, but dalestan isn't around...
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm... has the location of the repository changed?
13:20<Ammler>dunno, it isn't bazaar anymore.
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>ok, then yes ;)
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13:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... does ever produce anything other than timeouts?
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16726 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt italian.txt korean.txt swedish.txt):
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 26 changes by fanioz
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 8 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 29 changes by darkttd
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 74 changes by daishan
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14:16<@petern>hmm, so sourceforge got another redesign, eh
14:17<SmatZ>Error 500
14:17<SmatZ>We're sorry but we weren't able to process this request.
14:17<SmatZ>nice redesign 8-)
14:17<SmatZ>I liked the black design
14:17<@Rubidium>and... it's even crappier!
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14:20<@petern>yeah, ti's a bit unreliable too :)
14:21<@Rubidium>and... if you don't fill in exactly what the binary is it will suggest older ones
14:21<@Rubidium>e.g. it suggested 0.6.2 binaries instead of 0.7.1
14:22<@Rubidium>so we need to find someone who fancies to spend 15 minutes a release to make sure sf keeps working the way it should
14:23<TrueBrain>I vote for valhallasw
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14:29<@Belugas>mmh... tonigh, it's "Lost" at 20:00h, same as "So You Think You Can Dance".. hurray for VHS!
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15:18*Alberth needs some tea
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15:38<@Belugas>Iced, for me, please, with a drop of lemon/honey/rhum/cognac
15:38<@Belugas>big drop that is...
15:38*Prof_Frink puts kettle on
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15:52<@Belugas>oh boy... Alberth, make it a double please..
15:54<Alberth>hmm, are you sure? you may start thinking that they think they are lost while dancing
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15:58<andythenorth_>have you unplugged the tt-forums server while you make tea?
15:58<andythenorth_>any of you?
15:58<blathijs>orudge: ^^
15:59*Alberth checks the tt-forums plug..... no, not me
15:59<jonty-comp^>this is why everyone should be in #tycoon. D:
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15:59<andythenorth_>I mean, tea is important. But so is tt
15:59<andythenorth_>although this might put an end to dumb questions for a while
16:00<Alberth>now you can make tea without missing anything at tt-forums
16:00<jonty-comp^>this is true
16:00<andythenorth_>anyway, time to leave the office now
16:00<andythenorth_>if forums are done
16:00<andythenorth_>down sorry
16:01<andythenorth_>anyone else still working?
16:01*Alberth is working hard on the GUI patches
16:02<andythenorth_>so no boss there then?
16:02<Alberth>at 10 PM? nah
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16:08<gotiniens>Is it a know problem not being able to add bus stations to the shedule of a bus with the OpenGFX set?
16:10<@Belugas>forums are dead drunk for me too
16:11<Noldo>gotiniens: propably not
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16:14<gotiniens>Noldo, oops
16:14<gotiniens>sending an bus to an truck station isn't really an good idea is it?
16:15<Alberth>that may not work :)
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16:16<gotiniens>it's just to hot in here
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16:23<@Belugas>go to yuor office, stay under the aircon
16:23<@Belugas>might coolyou off
16:24<Noldo>it will if it works
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16:26<@Belugas>believe me, for been the one under the cool air flow, it does
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16:27<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Are the forums down?
16:28<welshdragon>check #tycoon
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17:01<@Belugas>bye byer
17:01*Belugas is going home, finally
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17:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r16727 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Introducing WD_SORTBUTTON_ARROW_WIDTH constant.
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18:36<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:37<SmatZ>hello Nite_Owl
18:37<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
18:37<Yexo>hi Nite_Owl
18:38<Nite_Owl>Hello Yexo
18:39<Rubidium>Nite Owl
18:39<Nite_Owl>Hello Rubidium
18:42<Rubidium>where's someone from Mensa when you need them?
18:44<Sacro>i was a mensa member
18:44<Rubidium>you've been kicked out?
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18:45*Rubidium just wants to note that "owl" if pronounced as if it were Dutch sounds a lot like "all"
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18:48<Nite_Owl>if you have a 'southern' US accent the words 'OIL' and 'ALL' and 'OWL' all sound the same
18:49<Westie>if you're a geordie
18:49<Westie>a e i o u
18:49<Westie>all sound the same
18:53<Nite_Owl>need to feed - back a bit later
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19:42<Sacro>"So the other day a customer calls in with connection problems. Apparently the customer was using a dial-up modem hooked up to the voip line to connect to AOL..."
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19:46<Tefad>Sacro: SON OF A DONKEY
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19:48<Sacro>Tefad: quite
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21:35<Sacro> public static int LongPacketData(byte[] p)
21:35<Sacro> {
21:35<Sacro> return 0;
21:35<Sacro> }
21:36<Sacro>god I hate my code sometimes XD
21:55<Sacro>hmm, though apparently that's right
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 03 00:00:25 2009