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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-06

---Logopened Mon Jul 06 00:00:28 2009
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03:05<dihedral>morning :-)
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04:06<yorick>http://paste.openttd.org/183649 <-- when I set this as action0 of a plane, it's still available in 2050
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04:47<Ammler>yorick: openttd "hacks" the grfs, so the first available vehicle is available from start of the game, the last is available forever, afaik.
04:47<yorick>Ammler: it's not the last vehicle
04:48<Ammler>your report doesn't tell much.
04:48<yorick>Ammler: it's the boeing 737-100 in the WAS
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05:59<TrueBrain>good morning all!
06:00<SmatZ>hello TrueBrain
06:00<SmatZ>good noon to you :)
06:00<TrueBrain>hehe, yeah, the sirenes were going off here ... :p
06:01<TrueBrain>(every first monday of the month)
06:01<SmatZ>we have that every first wednesday :)
06:01<SmatZ>the best moment to attack us...
06:01<TrueBrain>that is what they always say here too :p
06:01<SmatZ>everybody knows "it's just testing"
06:02<TrueBrain>a few months back in some town it went off in the middle of the day, not a first monday
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>they discontinued the sirene tests here
06:02<TrueBrain>nobody reacted
06:02<TrueBrain>they all though: oh, a glitch
06:02<SmatZ>:-D
06:02<SmatZ>they started them ~5 years ago
06:03<TrueBrain>here they stopped with it, but started again a few years ago .. most people were forgetting how it sounded :p
06:03<SmatZ>or so :) maybe together with "counter-terrorism" organisations
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>it used to be like wednesday at noon, 20 years ago...
06:05<@petern>ow
06:05-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:06<Noldo>There was a 'police advises people to stay indoors' thing few days ago in my town
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>nobody in the general population knows the different sirene sounds anyway...
06:10<TrueBrain>21485 untranslated strings ...
06:10<TrueBrain>that is a lot :(
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's only like 5 complete languages :p
06:10<TrueBrain>more like 7
06:12<TrueBrain>but I guess I don't really care about those languages in unfinished .. it just makes me a bit sad there are a few languages with 200 untranslated strings ... they once were completely translated, but now neglected :(
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>maybe try to reach the former translators?
06:12<TrueBrain>we emailed ALL translators for WT3
06:13<TrueBrain>(over 300 people)
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06:15<TrueBrain>out of the 300, 50 users have an active WT3 account ...
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06:16-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
06:19<dihedral>\o/
06:19*dihedral is one of the 50
06:19<dihedral>so is planetmaker :-)
06:21<dihedral>TrueBrain, make a forum thread: translators needed
06:22<TrueBrain>dihedral: check www.openttd.org ;)
06:22<dihedral>and perhaps people like < censored > would join wt3
06:22<dihedral>TrueBrain, i bet you have less people reading that box than people reading the forums ^^
06:23<dihedral>btw. can wt3 now also translate the website?
06:23<TrueBrain>not yet
06:23<TrueBrain>gettext support is tricky
06:23<dihedral>hehe, yeah - know what that is like ^^
06:23<dihedral>can be a real bitch too
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06:27<dihedral>can AI's give money??
06:29<TrueBrain>try it
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>damn, the inset is back
06:35<TrueBrain>:'(
06:35<TrueBrain>http://translator.openttd.org/en/status <- shows how many translators we need
06:36<planetmaker>TrueBrain, I think the word of dihedral that a forums thread might draw more attention could be somewhat true :)
06:36<planetmaker>what is actually the definition of "needs translator"?
06:37<TrueBrain>planetmaker: 0 translators or %done < 90%
06:37<TrueBrain>planetmaker: so please make a forum thread :)
06:37<TrueBrain>hihi :)
06:37<planetmaker>ah, ok :) Sounds sensible
06:38<dihedral><planetmaker> TrueBrain, I think the word of dihedral that a forums thread might draw more attention could be somewhat true :) <- but then a forum thread would get you "patch pack maker type translations"
06:38<dihedral>a load of gunk togiver
06:39<Noldo>you are refering to someone specific, aren't you?
06:39<dihedral>no
06:39<dihedral>not really
06:39<dihedral>just with that one word
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06:39<dihedral>but my point was more that there are more people who "want to help" but are not really all that helpful
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06:41<planetmaker>dihedral, you think that such call might not be worthwhile? I don't think.
06:42<dihedral>i would not be surprised if you got rotten translations out of it!
06:42<TrueBrain>dihedral: rotten translations only motivates other people to make real translations
06:42<TrueBrain>so that can only work out for the best ;)
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, the persians might be... otherwise occupied currently...
06:42<dihedral>or unaware of the fact that they can help
06:43<dihedral>still - look at the 'how to apply a patch' thread, everybody wants to compile for themselves and they have no clue whatsoever of what they are doing, how it work, or how to find further information with google (e.g.)
06:44<dihedral>they want everything pre-digested
06:45<dihedral>what would those translations look like?
06:45<dihedral>but your point is good TrueBrain
06:45<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44214 <-- there you go, TrueBrain
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: when i click on "edit", i get redirected to the login screen, but that one is in /nl/, not in /en/...
06:46<dihedral>bad translations will (hopefully) lead to better translators wanting to join and improve the "work"
06:46<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: known, ignore safely ;)
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, you might want to fix that before actually introducing languages ;(
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>;)
06:47<TrueBrain>you think?
06:47<TrueBrain>what part of: known, was unclear? :p
06:47<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you have one bitch of a signature :s
06:47<TrueBrain>could it BE any longer?
06:47<planetmaker>TrueBrain, it could. But it IS at least stretching the limits, yes, I know
06:48<TrueBrain>;)
06:48<planetmaker>But the IRC part is not my signature, mind that :)
06:48<TrueBrain>that I noticed ;)
06:48<planetmaker>ok
06:48<planetmaker>So far I couldn't decide what to drop :P
06:48<planetmaker>Maybe make everything smaller...
06:48<TrueBrain>even smaller? :s
06:49<dihedral>there are longer sigs on the forums....
06:49<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: just tell the forum not to show signatures ;)
06:49<dihedral>:-D
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06:52<Eddi|zuHause>i need mind control for this insect :(
06:53<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=800714#p800714 <- lol
06:53<dihedral>user telling Yexo that every little improvement "is welcome" :-D
06:53<dihedral>hihi
07:07<planetmaker>signature shortened.
07:09<TrueBrain>I broke WT3 :(
07:25<Ammler>planetmaker: at least your sig was on topic.
07:25<planetmaker>Ammler, yes indeed :)
07:25<planetmaker>The most important parts are still there, though :)
07:26<planetmaker>I need an animated image for the RSS feed :P
07:27<planetmaker>going throug OpenGFX, 2cctrainset and firs.
07:27<Ammler>he, flash isn't supported as sig
07:28<Ammler>and gif might be worse
07:28<planetmaker>animated gif :)
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07:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes. demand flash signatures!!1! :p
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07:47<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: it already supports gif banners, we used a 500kB gif banner for wwottdgd/2 ;-)
07:48<Ammler>the same flash banner was 20kb
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08:14<fjb>Hello
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08:15<Ammler>http://img.ammler.ch/images/openttdfon.png <-- Is my opera broken or does openttd really use that font?
08:16<Ammler>maybe, it wasn't a good idea to install another 2k fonts.
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>looks funny ;)
08:17<FauxFaux>Pro font.
08:17<Ammler>tt-forums is fine
08:17<Ammler>hmm, same with ff
08:18<Xaroth>"Trebuchet MS",Arial,Verdana,Sans-Serif
08:18<Xaroth>is the font family
08:18<Xaroth>so it's probably not the font it should be using
08:19<Ammler>that font is available here, strange.
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08:36<@Belugas>hello
08:41<dihedral>Ammler, looks like you have set an override font ^^
08:42<Ammler>well, it is on all my browsers
08:42<Ammler>and only for openttd.org
08:43<Ammler>the only change I did, is installing around 2k other fonts.
08:44<Ammler>also checked Trebuchet MS, that font is still like it should be.
08:47<TrueBrain>Ammler: but it doe slook cool :)
08:47<Ammler>indeed :-)
08:47<Ammler>but not that comfortable to read
08:47<TrueBrain>but yeah, it means all 4 fonts fail to load
08:47<TrueBrain>and your fallback font is clearly ... less normal :p
08:48<dihedral>hehe - permissions :-)
08:48<Ammler>Trebuchet MS is installed and useable by openoffice
08:48<dihedral>TrueBrain, sticky threads dont get read as much ^^
08:49<Ammler>well, i don't need those fonts anymore, I will remove them and fall back to system defaults, so it should be fine again.
08:49<TrueBrain>Ammler: weird! Sue your browser! :p
08:49<Ammler>anyway, silly.
08:49<Ammler>do you know another homepage using trebuchet?
08:49<TrueBrain>not really
08:50<TrueBrain>http://www.codestyle.org/servlets/FontSampler?class=TrebuchetMS&font=Trebuchet+MS <- I guess?
08:51<Born_Acorn>I am disappointed with the lack of trebuchets on that font.
08:51<TrueBrain>a default Debian install btw doesn't have the font
08:51<Xaroth>o_O
08:52<Ammler>he, might be a KDE issue
08:52<Ammler>strange, if I use the font installer, the preview for trebuchets looks like that silly font
08:52<@petern>your system is broken. enjoy.
08:52<Ammler>but in openoffice, it is like it should
08:53<TrueBrain>http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fonts/family.aspx?FID=2 <- this is what it should be
08:54<TrueBrain>I believe openoffice has the font natively
08:54<TrueBrain>(as in, it comes with the install)
08:54<TrueBrain>might explain the difference? Don't know ..
08:55<Ammler>mäh
08:57<Ammler>he, I guess, I know the issue, I installed those additional fonts just for local user, openoffice might use the system fonts first.
08:57<TrueBrain>either way, someone fucked up your Trebuchet MS font big time :)
08:57<TrueBrain>a bit weird .. as in the world of Fonts there is not really an option in what it should look like
08:57<Ammler>someone=me :-)
08:58<TrueBrain>Trebuchet MS should look the same on all systems ;)
08:58<TrueBrain>(if installed :p)
08:59<Ammler>luckily, I didn't install them system wide.
08:59<TrueBrain>they still need to fix it in a nice way, that you can supply a font with a webpage
09:00<TrueBrain>they should have done that in HTML 1.0 ...
09:00<Ammler>isn't that possible
09:00<Ammler>already?
09:00<TrueBrain>there is some work on the subject, but not really anything solid which works on all systems
09:00<Ammler>you just have the issue with licenses, afaik.
09:01<TrueBrain>plenty free fonts in the world
09:02<Ammler>he
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09:14<@Belugas>#Keep On Fonting in the Free World..
09:15<Ammler>yeah, Trebuchet back :-)
09:15<@Belugas>hem... nope.. not right....
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09:17*Prof_Frink sends Belugas to Font
09:18<Prof_Frink>Wait, that's silly.
09:18*Prof_Frink sends Belugas back and goes to Font himself
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09:23<Chruker>meh, are there anyway to fix the forum so that the reply window doesnt scroll wildly when I copy-paste a bunch of code into it?
09:25<@Belugas>provide the said code in a text file and include it as such ;)
09:28<fjb>Hm, is there a way to switch between a fullscreen view and the desktop uder X11?
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09:46<Gekz>k/wc
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09:47<@petern>9 bit boy
09:48<@petern>oh that was goodger
09:48<@petern>what was gekz's problem? heh
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10:13<oskari89>Is there longvehicles grf articulated anywhere?
10:17<@Belugas>i hope not
10:21<fjb>George was working on one.
10:22<@petern>i think he was until he got stuck on wanting longer vehicle lengths
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11:14<_ln>goooood bye
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12:29<N35>Hello, anyone alive?
12:30<@Rubidium>heh... is my local road speaking to me?
12:32<N35>Yes :)
12:32<TrueBrain>scary
12:33<N35>Anyway, just started up openTTD again, and I dont know if this happened beforeas well, or if its something new, but the game is incredibly fast - so fast, that about 1second = 1day, is that intended?
12:33<TrueBrain>don't fastforward ;)
12:35<N35>yeah, but then i can only pause it
12:36<N35>oh right
12:36<N35>nvm
12:36<@Rubidium>there is no fast forward (>>) button?
12:36<N35>been too long since i've played it, i forgot to just unclick the || button
12:36<Xaroth>lol
12:36<TrueBrain>I wonder how the game ran so fast in pause mode ... ;)
12:36<Xaroth>heh
12:36<N35>hehe
12:36-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
12:37<N35>excellent, back to building horrible railnetworks
12:37<yorick>what's the smallest model life that actually works?
12:37<TrueBrain>Barbie!
12:37<yorick>My Little Pony?
12:38<TrueBrain>I can go with that too
12:38<TrueBrain>glad you answered your own question
12:38<yorick>no, I actually would have liked an answer I could use
12:38<yorick>like "8"
12:38<TrueBrain>I guess you asked the wrong question then
12:39<yorick>ok, "How can I set a plane model life of only 2 years?"
12:39<yorick>:)
12:39<TrueBrain>why are you modelling things?
12:40<yorick>I'm not modelling things, I'm just coding some aircraft
12:40<TrueBrain>so what is this talk about models?
12:40<yorick>and someone (boeing) decided it needs to be available for sale for only 2 years
12:40<yorick>and the "available for sale" property happens to be called "model life"
12:40<@Rubidium>I know that this isn't the right channel, but since when can rain change it's angle by 135 degrees?
12:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I am watching Impact .. there everything can happen :p
12:41<@Rubidium>tss... just don't put a brown dwarf in the moon and it'll all be fine
12:41<TrueBrain>yorick: oh, you talk about newgrfs?
12:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ghehehe :) Glad you watched it too :p
12:41<yorick>yes, it wasn't clear?
12:42<TrueBrain>a boat being lifted from the sea, but the sea itself stays stable ... in what world is that?
12:42<@Rubidium>hollyworld
12:42<TrueBrain>yorick: well, I thought you were talking about Barbies ...
12:42<yorick>no, you were!
12:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium: fair point
12:42<TrueBrain>yorick: oh, now start to blame me. Sure sure
12:43<TrueBrain>anyway: hi yorick, nice to see you again :)
12:43<yorick>hi TB, I'm not sure if it's nice to see you again :)
12:43<TrueBrain>at least nothing changed :)
12:45<@Rubidium>how far in the series are you actually?
12:45<@Rubidium>assuming you are watching the series of Impact
12:45<TrueBrain>I am watching S01E02 now
12:48<TrueBrain>a moon lander that still operates at a gravity 14 times the amount it was built for ... doubtful :p
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>is this "impact" worthwile?
12:49<TrueBrain>if you ignore most physics, sure
12:53<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but it's totally realistic that a 'rocket' with almost no fuel stays in the air for a long period of time
12:58<TrueBrain>escaping a piece of rock with twice the gravity of earth with a single stage engine .... hahaha :) Oh ... I should stop comparing this with real life :p
13:00-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_]
13:04<stefan_>well it just wouldn't be as fun if it was realistic
13:04-!-tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd
13:04<stefan_>though it's pretty funny watching impact in between episode of the universe, puts it in to perspective quite nicely
13:07-!-maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07<TrueBrain>lol @ stefan_
13:07-!-Catandra [~Catandra@CPE0016b6b50e58-CM0011e6edd2fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
13:07<TrueBrain>and now there are 2 moons
13:07<TrueBrain>lol
13:08<Catandra>Hi everyone. I'm new. Anyone having problems with Multiplayer after upgrading to new version?
13:08<TrueBrain>nope
13:08<Catandra>I go to the 'multiplayer button, click connect and nothing shows up no matter how long I wait.... anyone can help?
13:08<TrueBrain>@openttd ports
13:08<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
13:09<@Rubidium>there's no 'connect' in the window that is shown once you press 'multiplayer' in the main menu
13:10<Catandra>i mean 'find server'
13:10<Catandra>it used to bring up a list of all Internet servers
13:10<Catandra>i tried disabling Firewall, same thing
13:10<@Rubidium>likely cause is a firewall blocking the traffic; how often have you tried?
13:11<Catandra>tried with 7.0, and with 7.1 upgrade today a few times
13:11<Catandra>it stopped working after 7.0 upgrade a month or so ago
13:12-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:12<Catandra>anything i need to set up in my antivirus maybe>
13:12<@Rubidium>nothing has changed in that part of OpenTTD since 0.7.0
13:12<Catandra>yeah, how about in 7.0? It worked fine prior to that install
13:13<@Rubidium>there is no 7.0 (or 7.1), there are 0.7.0 and 0.7.1 though
13:14<Catandra>yeah that's what I mean, just dropped the first 0
13:14<Catandra>i just checked settings in Firewall, open TTD is allowed on all ports
13:14<@Rubidium>the most likely cause really is a firewall, yours or the one of your ISP
13:15<TrueBrain>@openttd servers
13:15<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:15<TrueBrain>I should fix that ..
13:15-!-Mark [~Mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:15<@Rubidium>after that comes a very congested network that chooses to drop OpenTTD's packets
13:15<Catandra>alright, thanks, I'll post that in the FOrum then and will wait...
13:15<@Rubidium>or routing problems
13:15<Catandra>unless someone has an IP I can try connecting to to test
13:15<@Rubidium>Catandra: posting it in the forum won't change a thing
13:16<@Rubidium>Catandra: can you go to www.openttd.org ?
13:16-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-123-9.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
13:16<Catandra>yeah, and then?
13:17<@Rubidium>that's the same server as the server from where OpenTTD gets the list of servers
13:17<@Rubidium>so it isn't a routing issue
13:17<Catandra>oh i see.. no, page not found, even with www.
13:17<@Rubidium>oh, you can't reach www.openttd.org either
13:18<TrueBrain>strange, as openttd.org can reach him ;)
13:18<TrueBrain>no, scrap that
13:18<TrueBrain>his rdns is not equal to his IP :p
13:19<TrueBrain>can reach other computers in his C block, only his IP filters
13:20<@Rubidium>Catandra: you tried www.openttd.org in your web browser, didn't you?
13:20<Catandra>yes
13:20-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
13:20<Catandra>doesn't find it
13:20<TrueBrain>Catandra: check your firewall again ;)
13:20<Catandra>ok found it with /en at the end
13:21<Catandra>yeah that's where I downloaded my upgrade from today.... not sure why it did not find it a few times...
13:21<TrueBrain>Catandra: http://www.openttd.org/ doesn't work where http://www.openttd.org/en/ does work, is what you want to tell us?
13:22<Catandra>yes, it redirected to /en... after a few tries and 'not found' results...
13:23<Catandra>i checked firewall, openttd.exe is allowed in all ports and protocols
13:24<Catandra>do u think uninstall and re-install may helP?
13:24<TrueBrain>only if you believe in magic ;)
13:24<Catandra>i have a bunch of patches too from previous versions... maybe they r cauzing this?
13:25<TrueBrain>are you trying a vanilla (unchanged) version of OpenTTD, as downloaded via http://www.openttd.org/ ?
13:25<Catandra>and grf updates too...
13:25<@Rubidium>Catandra: how do you expect OpenTTD to reach a server if your webbrowser can't even reach it?
13:25<Catandra>yes, but i installed it over 0.7.0
13:26<Catandra>it did reach it after a few attenpts
13:26<TrueBrain>so now try the ingame thing again :p
13:26-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c363e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
13:26<Catandra>i did
13:26<Catandra>no diff
13:27<@Rubidium>have you selected 'internet'?
13:27<TrueBrain>oeh, nice one :)
13:27<Catandra>yes, of course... it's not like I'm new at that... I play online a lot, but not since put 0.7.0 on my PC
13:28<TrueBrain>btw, if you need an IP, check any of the entries at http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
13:28<Catandra>k will try
13:30<Catandra>can someone tell me a server that's online" I added Speedy 2 and beginners, it says 'offline;
13:31<TrueBrain>...
13:31<TrueBrain>ALL servers on that list are online
13:31<TrueBrain>the reason they are on that list
13:31<@Rubidium>it's not like we (TrueBrain and I) are new to OpenTTD's network stuff
13:31<Catandra>k that that's a problem... I add IP, click refresh, and it says' offline'
13:31<TrueBrain>look Catandra, hunderds of people use our services a day .. rest assure the problem is on your side of the connection, not ours :)
13:31<TrueBrain>so once again we say: firewall
13:31<TrueBrain>@openttd ports
13:31<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
13:32<Catandra>i know the problem is on MY side, i am asking if anyone knows how to solve it
13:33<TrueBrain>ensure nothing is keeping those 2 ports from communicating over both TCP and UDP
13:33<Catandra>what do I check in firewall, if everything is allowed... where else do I check and for what
13:33<TrueBrain>the problem you are having now, is the lack of communication of UDP over 3979 and 3978
13:33-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34<TrueBrain>(you can check TCP over 3978 by hitting the 'content' button, and TCP over 3979 by starting OpenTTD with: openttd -n <ip of server>)
13:34<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how about making a 'Test Connection' button in the game, doing those checks, one by one? Having a dummy server running on openttd.org ... ;) :)
13:35<Catandra>i can't find 'test connection' button, where is it?
13:35<TrueBrain>it isn't there, the reason I say: how about making
13:35<TrueBrain>it suggests future, not present
13:35-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit]
13:36<Catandra>oh
13:36<TrueBrain>so, have you given the Content stuff a try?
13:36<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: with 20 pages of 'what is wrong if this fails' and how to fix it?
13:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: avoids doing it over IRC / forum from time to time ;)
13:37<@Belugas>1) don't watch the fullmoon in a mirror, holding a candle
13:38<frosch123>oh shit, couldn't you have told me that yesterday?
13:38<Catandra>k, i just tried starting a server, and it said cannot start server...
13:38-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
13:40<@Belugas>2) don't drink water from a spring digged by a throll
13:40<@Rubidium>so OpenTTD isn't even allowed to open a port?
13:40<TrueBrain>Belugas: useful tips; bored at the office again?
13:40<@Belugas>:)
13:40<Catandra>i guess... so what can I do then?
13:40<TrueBrain>buy a new computer
13:41<@Rubidium>find someone with proper computer knowledge to take a look (physically) at your computer
13:41<Catandra>k, sounds good... thx
13:41<@Rubidium>so (s)he can fix the issue as I've got absolutely no idea what stuff is installed on your computer and how they interact with eachother
13:42<TrueBrain>all we can tell you something is blocking the network connection for OpenTTD
13:43<@Rubidium>dinner time :)
13:43<Ammler>http://img.ammler.ch/images/openttdgli.png <-- Opera glitch
13:43<TrueBrain>oeh, enjoy!
13:43<TrueBrain>Ammler: old
13:43<TrueBrain>known
13:43<TrueBrain>and yes, a glitch of Opera
13:43<TrueBrain>(it fails to implement a basic CSS1 W3C entry in the correct way)
13:43<Ammler>ok, thanks.
13:44<TrueBrain>(btw, it is the only browser who fails on it)
13:44<TrueBrain>(even IE5.0 renders it correct :p)
13:44<Ammler>Maybe I go just back to FF
13:44<TrueBrain>Opera is nice :)
13:45<Ammler>it has also missing google gears support
13:45<TrueBrain>who wants that anyway?
13:45<Ammler>i use gmail
13:45<TrueBrain>your mistake ;)
13:45<Ammler>:P
13:45<@Belugas>3) Don't play hide and seek with an helephant, even more if you're a mouse
13:46<TrueBrain>4) don't eat yellow snow!
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16756 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 82 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 144 changes by darkttd, telk5093
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: malay - 3 changes by Syed
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 28 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<@petern>5) get me some beer
13:46<@Belugas>6) me too me too me too!
13:46<Ammler>well, won't that gears thing be used on other web apps too?
13:46-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm140.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:46<@Belugas>yellow snow... depends.. TrueBrain, ever heard of maple sirup on snow?
13:47<frosch123>7) beer is somewhat yellow
13:47<@Belugas>leaves yellow stained
13:47<TrueBrain>I know I should not complain, but 3 more strings for Malay? WHOHO! Just .. 2k more to do? :s
13:47<@Belugas>-ed+s
13:47<@petern>8) not my beer thanks
13:47<@Belugas>9) white, blond, red, brown... as lonmg as it's beer
13:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: does "changed" still mean "already translated string changed"?
13:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: changed means: not as it was before
13:48<TrueBrain>so new, modified, case added, case deleted
13:48<frosch123>so there is no "fixed" anymore
13:48<TrueBrain>nope
13:48<TrueBrain>'fixed' is VERY ambiguous
13:49<TrueBrain>(even after I understood what WT2 really meant with those words, I couldn't believe it :) )
13:50<TrueBrain>(I believe fixed was when it was untranslated before? Or something silly like that :p)
13:50<frosch123>English(US) needs translator?
13:50<TrueBrain>yup
13:50<TrueBrain>out of the 300 people we mailed, nobody signed up for English (US)
13:50<Chruker>Is it orudge that does the tt-forums?
13:50<TrueBrain>well, only 50 replied, so ...
13:51<@Belugas>easy to transalte US. IF nelgish introduces a word with "ou", remove the U
13:51<@Belugas>tadam!
13:52<Ammler>300 translators for wt2? 50 left for wt3?
13:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: 300+ even ... most inactive, enver did anything, or just one string or so :p
13:52-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
13:52<Ammler>well, cleanup ;-)
13:52<TrueBrain>so we did! :P
13:55-!-Catandra [~Catandra@CPE0016b6b50e58-CM0011e6edd2fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
13:55<@Belugas>and as usual... I forgot my password...
13:55<Ammler>if you ever accept "country" language, ping me, I would like to be translator, too.
13:57<@Belugas>Mooooooooo
13:58<@Belugas>waff waff
13:58<TrueBrain>bark
13:58<@Belugas>hihan hihan
13:58<Ammler>mäh!
13:59<@Belugas>would be boring, as a language, don't you think?
13:59<@Belugas>country side... taht is... just had a few strings here, take note...
14:00<Ammler>well, our is more the uk->us
14:03-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
14:05<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: there only ever has been 1 English US translator and if only 1 in 7 react...
14:05<planetmaker>Ammler: there is no problem to start a SwissGerman translation, is there?
14:06<TrueBrain>only if it has an ISO code :p
14:08<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: Switzerland has an ISO code, doesn't it?
14:08<TrueBrain>I am not concluding; I am just saying
14:08<Ammler>well
14:09<@Belugas>and a nuclear reactor has ISOtops
14:09<Ammler>de_CH, but in most apps is just german with some exceptions
14:09<@Belugas>bhuwawaaaaaaa
14:09<Ammler>it*
14:11<frosch123>Belugas is no isotop, there is only one
14:11<Ammler>if I would translate to Swiss German, I would translate to the language, we speak at home and not in newspapers.
14:11*Rubidium does have isotopes ;)
14:12<@Belugas>me too! On my smoke alarm!
14:13<@Rubidium>a spoken translation ;)
14:13<Ammler>well, there are "papers" using it but not the big ones.
14:14<fonsinchen>Does anyone know how I can copy text from a windows terminal? (In order to paste it somewhere ...) I think I have caught an interesting bug with gdb, but it happens only very rarely so I don't want to try again with a useful terminal ...
14:15<@Rubidium>right click, select, copy?
14:15<@petern>mark
14:15<fonsinchen>the problem is "mark" ...
14:15<Ammler>http://als.wikipedia.org
14:16<@Rubidium>you need to mark the rectangle you want to copy
14:16<fonsinchen>it doesn't highlight anything when I click and draw in the terminal window.
14:17<@Rubidium>using mingw?
14:17<fonsinchen>yes
14:17-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_]
14:17<frosch123>fonsinchen: usually you have to first rightlight, and then select "select" or simliar
14:17<@Rubidium>ah, then don't call it "a windows terminal" as that implies Windows' cmd.exe
14:18<fonsinchen>ah, no
14:18<fonsinchen>it is actually "git bash"
14:18<@Rubidium>but as far as I know the easiest way to copy from mingw is:
14:18<@Rubidium>a) print screen + OCR
14:18<@Rubidium>b) a photo of your screen + OCR
14:18<fonsinchen>a screenshot ... that might be a good idea
14:18-!-Brianetta is now known as Brianetta_laptop
14:19-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-123-9.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
14:22<Ammler>I guess, we could agree to use "Allemanisch" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German
14:24-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:28<@petern>fonsinchen, "Mark" is a specific menu item
14:29<@petern>http://www.raymond.cc/images/copy-and-paste-in-dos.png
14:29<@petern>(heh, dos)
14:39<|Jeroen|>thats not dos das an xp command line
14:40<@petern>quite
14:42<TrueBrain>typing it over is easier ...
14:43-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@87.115.161.138] has joined #openttd
14:44<fonsinchen>thanks. I'm trying to make sense of it. It's some weird Yapf problem where a vehicle is interpreted as a train although it is actually a road vehicle ...
14:44<fonsinchen>Has something like this been fixed lately?
14:47<Ammler>http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=gsw <-- TrueBrain, acceptable iso code?
14:48<Ammler>-2 is same, but no -1
15:01-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:01<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:02<TrueBrain>Ammler: it is all fine by me :p
15:02<TrueBrain>I was just refering to another incident :)
15:02<TrueBrain>and I guess only Rubidium can understand that ;)
15:03<@Rubidium>Ammler: what about de_CH?
15:03<Ammler>Rubidium: well, that is mainly german with some localization rules.
15:03<Ammler>like no "double" s
15:04<Ammler>but would work too, imo.
15:04<@Rubidium>we're now using iso 639-1 language + country, I don't know whether going to iso 639-3 would really work
15:04<Ammler>de_CH is like en_US, just some minor things.
15:05<Ammler>well. gsw is Swiss German
15:05<Ammler>so de_CH might work
15:06<Ammler>hmm, the other Swiss guy isn't around
15:10<@Rubidium>gsw is such a nice language ;)
15:10<@Rubidium>fontconfig doesn't know it
15:10<@Rubidium>Microsoft declares it to be only used in France
15:13-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
15:14<Ammler>> echo $LANG
15:14<Ammler>de_CH.UTF-8
15:14<@Rubidium>for Apple it doesn't really matter as it doesn't do automatic font detection
15:14<Ammler>but I wouldn't use gsw for work.
15:15<Ammler>how much needs to be translated, so it appears on the menu?
15:16<TrueBrain>3300 strings :p
15:16<@Rubidium>depends on whether you compile it yourself or not, in the latter case roughly 80%
15:17<@Rubidium>and then only when "we" are bothered enough to do it ;)
15:19<Ammler>so it might be better to use the code gsw, so manual selection is needed
15:19<@Rubidium>yes, but it breaks finding a font
15:20<TrueBrain>is 'gsw' so different to 'de_CH'/
15:20<Ammler>de_CH is like en_US, afaik
15:20<TrueBrain>can you make sure?
15:20<Ammler>it is our written language
15:20<Ammler>well, my apps are de_CH
15:20<TrueBrain>then what do you want to translate?
15:21<Ammler>and that isn't gws
15:21<TrueBrain>to spoken language? :p
15:21<Ammler>gsw*
15:21<Ammler>TrueBrain: yes, the other doesn't make much sense, it is around 90% German
15:22<@Rubidium>then the question is: how to write down a spoken (only?) language?
15:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: nicely formulated :)
15:22<Ammler>well, it has a wikipage
15:22<Ammler>http://als.wikipedia.org/
15:23<@Rubidium>according to the highly (in)credible wikipedia there are quite a lot of dialects
15:23<TrueBrain>lol, yeah, very good argument ;) (NOT! :p)
15:23<Ammler>:-)
15:23<TrueBrain>Ammler: if 'gsw' is a spoken language, it makes it a non-official language, not?
15:23<@petern>http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-google-maps-fail.jpg?w=500&h=389
15:23<@petern>lol
15:23-!-Howdy [~Howdy@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
15:24<Ammler>de_CH would only make sense, if we could use de as fallback.
15:24<Ammler>as most is the same
15:24<TrueBrain>doesn't answer my question :)
15:24*Chruker slaps Howdy around a bit with a large trout
15:25<Ammler>what is a "official" language?
15:25<TrueBrain>normally I would say: a written language :p
15:25*Rubidium still wonders how to get the uhm... genders right... or should we just drop the genders from de_DE when using it in de_CH?
15:26<Ammler>you can write it, we just don't do it ;-)
15:26<TrueBrain>Ammler: we have tons of dialects here too, all spoken languages
15:26<TrueBrain>I wouldn't even try to write them down how they are spoken
15:26<TrueBrain>you write them in so called ABN (or AN nowedays), which is nl_NL
15:27*Rubidium also wonders what's the difference between Zürich German and Zurich German
15:27<TrueBrain>example: you write 'rode', when I speak it out loud, it is more like: 'rooie'
15:27<TrueBrain>the 'd' sound completely disapears
15:27<TrueBrain>I wouldn't dare to write 'rooie' in any official game or what ever
15:27<Ammler>I would use the language from the quoted wikipedia
15:28<Ammler>that is mainly Züridütch
15:28<@Rubidium>"over de rooie" ;)
15:28<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium :p
15:28<TrueBrain>what I mean to say .. if it is a spoken only, is that really a language which you can write down in anything official?
15:28<TrueBrain>you say so yourself: you can write it down, you just don't
15:28<@Rubidium>Ammler: not Züritüütsch?
15:28<TrueBrain>so why would OpenTTD have it?
15:28-!-Howdy [~Howdy@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit []
15:28<TrueBrain>@kick Chruker for scaring Howdy away
15:28-!-Chruker was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [for scaring Howdy away]
15:29-!-Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
15:30<@Rubidium>heh... I like 'Büecher'; isn't that in 'real' German either without the umlaut or without the e after the ü?
15:30<planetmaker>eh?
15:30<TrueBrain>Ammler: and I really try to figure out how this 'gsw' relates to anything real :) Not trying to put you off the idea ;)
15:30<Ammler>hmm, does every wikipedia localization need its own login?
15:31<planetmaker>Ammler: yes
15:31<@Rubidium>Ammler: they are completely different wikis, so why not?
15:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I won't stop anyone for translating some 'official' (ISO 639 'certified') language
15:32<Ammler>Rubidium: yes, Bücher
15:32<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I would say only 639-1 languages
15:32<Ammler>I would write, Büächer :-)
15:32<TrueBrain>as that gives us a iso code you can do something with ;)
15:32<Prof_Frink>What about made-up languages?
15:33<@Rubidium>Ammler: but it's 'Büecher' on als.wikipedia
15:33<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: like?
15:33<Prof_Frink>Like klingon, l33t, or EN_pirate
15:33<@Rubidium>they may write a script to generate that from English and distribute them theirselves ;)
15:35<Ammler>Rubidium: yeah, I would need to "replace" my "ä"s with "e"s :-)
15:35<Ammler>to get the als
15:35<TrueBrain>where does 'als' come from btw?
15:35<Ammler>Allemanisch
15:35<Ammler>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German
15:36<TrueBrain>doesn't appear in any ISO notation?
15:36<@Rubidium>not from ISO at least
15:36<@Rubidium>oh, Alemannic German != ISO 639-3 gsw
15:36<Ammler>iso code is gsw as the biggest part, afaik.
15:36<TrueBrain>ISO 639-2 it is
15:36<@Rubidium>Alemannic German has gct, gsw, swg and wae
15:37<TrueBrain>Ammler: but you haven't answer my questions yet? :)
15:38<TrueBrain>Rubidium: by 639-3 we can get a lot of dutch dialects :p
15:39<TrueBrain>Twents .. Zeeuws ... Veluws .. :p
15:39<Ammler>TrueBrain: als is a merge of those 4 codes you mentioned
15:39<Ammler>nothing official, afaik.
15:39<TrueBrain>Ammler: my question was: if it is a spoken language only, why write it down? As you yourself say it is neer written down? Wouldn't it be worse to write it down?
15:40<TrueBrain>as what I understand, everyone can read Standard German
15:40<@Rubidium>hmm... now this is a nice trivial pursuit question: to which language group does Yiddish (Jewish) belong? Hint: it is written in the Hebrew alphabet
15:40<TrueBrain>and in speak converts that to gsw / als
15:40<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I have the page open, so it is a simple question for me :p
15:40<TrueBrain>but it is a suprise, yes
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15:41<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if you have the page open you'll see that Alemmanic is seen as separate language instead of a dialect
15:41<TrueBrain>my page doesn't mention Alemmanic :p
15:41<TrueBrain>it just puts Yiddish under High German
15:42<TrueBrain>yih is seemly spoken in german too
15:42<TrueBrain>where ydd is spoken in israel
15:42<@Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_languages
15:43<@Rubidium>it's on the same 'level' as German and Yiddish under the High German tree
15:43<TrueBrain>http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90067
15:43<TrueBrain>not according to ethnologue
15:43<TrueBrain>(and by definition I don't believe wikipedia)
15:44<TrueBrain>Upper German language
15:44<TrueBrain>which is a High German
15:45<TrueBrain>Rubidium: btw, 'sub' languages isn't such a bad idea
15:45<TrueBrain>English (US) would benefit from it I guess
15:45<TrueBrain>and your gender problem would be 'simple': force both to carry the same language
15:45<TrueBrain>and your gender problem would be 'simple': force both to carry the same genders/cases
15:45<TrueBrain>:p
15:46<TrueBrain>and if that is too complicated for strgen, I guess it can be done in WT3
15:46<Ammler>TrueBrain: why do some people write the als wikipedia?
15:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: that is EXACTLY what I am asking you
15:46<planetmaker>well. It would mean just to make a dependency and require the sub-language to obey all gramar rules like the primary one
15:46<TrueBrain>I am trying to classify what it is :)
15:47<Ammler>TrueBrain: I would do it for fun :P
15:47<TrueBrain>besides that :)
15:47<TrueBrain>why write something that is only spoken?
15:48<TrueBrain>well .. I guess my question is not directed to you directly, Ammler, more the question: do you want such languages in a game?
15:48<TrueBrain>as I know a few dutch dialects people will be willing to enter :p Would it be for the better?
15:48<Ammler>that is what I wonder too :-)
15:48<TrueBrain>hehe
15:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: look at the state of Frisian, which isn't even a dialect ;)
15:48<TrueBrain>so I wonder why people write on that als page?
15:49<@Rubidium>though there are books in some form of gsw
15:49<TrueBrain>Rubidium: true, but that says as much as looking at any of the other unfinished languages
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15:49<TrueBrain>Ammler: there is no subpage on wikipedia in any dutch dialect :p So what makes als so much more special?
15:49<Ammler>US!
15:49<Ammler>:P
15:49<TrueBrain>(all dutch can at least read nl_NL)
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15:50<TrueBrain>Ammler: I am more trying to figure out the social context of this all :)
15:51<Ammler>we discussed that once also on the German TTD forum
15:51<Ammler>there is no real need for it.
15:51<@Rubidium>apparantly speaking a specific sub dialect of Swiss German is important for their regional identity
15:51<Ammler>but it might be fun to read the own language.
15:52<Ammler>and in openttd, you don't have much text to read at once.
15:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: I don't care if there is a real need or not :) I try to figure out why gsw would introduce a better feeling for a certain amount of people in the world ;)
15:52<TrueBrain>as doing a dutch dialect would just be silly
15:53<@Rubidium>the major problem I see is that if there are multiple translators you get an enormous flux because there's no official "Swiss German", but it's a global name for a bunch of related dialects
15:53<Ammler>well, gsw is almost like dutch
15:53<yorick>TrueBrain: http://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veurblad
15:54<TrueBrain>yorick: okay, I take it back ... that is just SICK!
15:54<TrueBrain>I can't even read it ...
15:54<yorick>http://li.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veurblaad
15:54<TrueBrain>(but okay, nedersaksisch is not really dutch :p)
15:54<Ammler>what you are speaking is our regional dialects, like my or Züri, Bern Walliser etc.
15:54<planetmaker>TrueBrain: frisian?
15:54<TrueBrain>planetmaker: frisian is a language
15:54<planetmaker>yes :)
15:54<yorick>TrueBrain: there's a limburgse wikipedia too ;)
15:55<@Belugas>nobody wanted to try dong creole?
15:55<@Belugas>doing
15:55<TrueBrain>yorick: sick .... and completely useless
15:55<@Rubidium>Ammler: uhm... in what way is it 'like' Dutch? For Dutch there is 1 set of rules and a bunch of dialects that break those rules. For Swiss German I see no single 'dominant' language with lots of dialects, but just lots of related dialects
15:55<planetmaker>Ammler: I still didn't understand why doing a language de_CH is not the way to do it?
15:56<TrueBrain>I guess it is like Belgium-Dutch is to Dutch?
15:56<TrueBrain>(Vlaams, but I don't know the english word for that .. if there is any :p)
15:56<@Rubidium>Flemish
15:56<TrueBrain>tnx ;)
15:57<TrueBrain>is an official language
15:57<TrueBrain>(Zeeuws too btw ... :s)
15:57<Ammler>planetmaker: de_CH is the official Swiss "high" German, imo.
15:57<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but in Belgium the official language is Dutch
15:57<Ammler>the language we use to write.
15:57<planetmaker>ah, yes, Ammler - and that's then not what you want obviously :) Ok
15:57<TrueBrain>Rubidium: what I mean, they write the dialect there too
15:58<Ammler>which might be to 99% like your "high" German
15:58<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: Twents, Limburgish etc. are also written languages
15:58<Ammler>planetmaker: that might be an idea, if German could be used as Fallback, so we only have to translate the exceptions.
15:59<TrueBrain>Rubidium: 'achterhoeks' niet :p
15:59<TrueBrain>Ammler: for 1% that is not worth the trouble
15:59<yorick>"the term Flemish can be applied to the Dutch spoken in Flanders"
15:59<Ammler>well, I have no idea, how much, similar to UK-US
16:00<Ammler>i.e. "Gehsteig"->"Trottoir"
16:00<yorick>trottoir is more like french?
16:00<Ammler>yes
16:00<planetmaker>So? Even Germans understand that.
16:00<TrueBrain>but okay .. I am not really closer to what motivates anyone to write gsw over de_CH ;)
16:01<Ammler>that might be the Napoleon brought to us.
16:01<planetmaker>Though it can be considered quite archaic German ;)
16:01<planetmaker>Here, too.
16:01<planetmaker>I like the word "Fisimatenten"
16:01<yorick>heh, "stoep" :)
16:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: either way, if we want to allow that, we have to change pragma isocode to 639-1, and introduce a new 639-3 (or 639-2)
16:01<Ammler>but I have no clue, which words are in the OpenTTD German, as I mostly use the English
16:02<planetmaker>it's supposedly derived from French visitez ma tente :) which the soldiers told to the pretty German girls back then :P
16:02<TrueBrain>I can't play OpenTTD in Dutch .. it makes me sick :p
16:02<yorick>yes
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16:02<yorick>they need better translators, I guess
16:02<TrueBrain>it is not the translator
16:02<TrueBrain>it is not the translation
16:02<yorick>"... heeft zich bij het spel gevoeg"
16:02<TrueBrain>it is fine
16:02<planetmaker>and now it means "don't do anything stupid" :P
16:02<Yexo>good evening
16:02<TrueBrain>it is just the dutch language in a game ... ieuw!
16:02<TrueBrain>hello Yexo :)
16:02<planetmaker>hi Yexo
16:02<TrueBrain>'visitez ma tente' -> "visit my ant" ;)
16:03<yorick>:D
16:03<TrueBrain>aunt
16:03<TrueBrain>details
16:03<planetmaker>well. However "tent" is spellt in French :P
16:04<yorick>and the "kon niet" instead of "kon niet"
16:04<TrueBrain>Ammler: okay, another way to ask this question: what would gsw add to the game what de_CH doesn't?
16:04<yorick>"could not"*
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16:05<TrueBrain>(in a social context ;))
16:05<yorick>what's gsw?
16:06<@Rubidium>that gsw is going to cause nice fights as no one is sure which of the dialects of gsw should be chosen as 'the dialect' for the translation, after all there's no official gsw
16:07<planetmaker>German the Swiss Was = gsw ? ;)
16:07<planetmaker>*Way
16:08<@Rubidium>Swiss German (Schweizerdeutsch, Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch) is any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in Switzerland and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy (from my oh-so reliable source)
16:08<TrueBrain>Rubidium: such 'fallback' language, should that be a thing for WT3.1, or something you (we) can add in strgen?
16:08<TrueBrain>(for en_US and possible de_CH, I mean)
16:09<planetmaker>sounds like a lot of trouble :)
16:09<@Rubidium>how to know the state of translation?
16:09<TrueBrain>fallback is a bad name in my opinion btw
16:09<TrueBrain>##include :p
16:09<TrueBrain>##extend
16:09<TrueBrain>;)
16:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: finished, by definition
16:09<frosch123>having both de_CH -> de_DE and de_DE -> de_CH might turn out fun :p
16:09<planetmaker>:P
16:09<frosch123>(for the same missing string :p)
16:09<TrueBrain>planetmaker: well, en_US annoys me for a long time now .. it is hard to keep it up-to-date in my opinion
16:10<TrueBrain>frosch123: I think such extend should be defined per language, not per string ;)
16:10<planetmaker>hm, yeah, understandably. It rarely shows :)
16:11<TrueBrain>it would be silly to do it per string :)
16:11<frosch123>TrueBrain: I just wanted to enjoy a circular dependency
16:11<TrueBrain>okay okay .. I let you :p
16:11<@Rubidium>why is English US so hard to keep up-to-date?
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16:12<frosch123>compared to French, English US is a abandoned translation :p
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16:12<TrueBrain>well, I mean it more in the terms of: when you check the .txt, you don't see what strings are changed over the english.txt
16:12<@Rubidium>it's just copy-string-from-english and change if needed
16:12<TrueBrain>so the difference is very vague in my opinion
16:12<TrueBrain>it could benifit from such 'extend' feature (in my opinion anyway :p)
16:13<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but between Dutch and English there's no way to see what strings were changed either
16:13<Ammler>that would be the same with de_CH, therefor not much work (fun).
16:13<frosch123>Rubidium: but just storing the diff might help for whitespace changes :p
16:13<TrueBrain>Rubidium: because that is by definition: all strings ;) (well .. or if equal, it could just be empty I guess)
16:13<Ammler>gsw would need work for every string -> more work fun, but maybe not more useage. :-)
16:14<TrueBrain>Ammler: if 'gsw' doesn't have any official standard, I wouldn't do it :)
16:14<TrueBrain>would give you endless debates ;)
16:15<Ammler>well, btw. we write i.e. SMS in gsw
16:25<planetmaker>[22:11] <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but between Dutch and English there's no way to see what strings were changed either <-- but you'd notice new strings
16:25<planetmaker>with US vs GB you don't even notice them.
16:28<Sacro>I'm on a train beyoutches
16:29<TrueBrain>planetmaker: in WT3 you do, but okay :)
16:32*Sacro is travelling backwards rather fast
16:34<planetmaker>TrueBrain: yes, with the translator tools. But not ingame :)
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17:36<planetmaker>new nforenum and grfcodec available at the http://dev.openttdcoop.org/bundles/grfdev
17:36<planetmaker>^^ Spam bot :P
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20:13<dragonhorseboy>hmm anyone seen commcody?
20:13<dragonhorseboy>seem I missed him by a while in ottd :/
20:19<dragonhorseboy>he didn't show up here?
20:21<@petern>who?
20:22<dragonhorseboy>commcody
20:26<dragonhorseboy>oh well guess I'll see if I catch him ingame tomorrow
20:28<dragonhorseboy>what you doing now anyhow petern?
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 07 00:00:29 2009