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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-16

---Logopened Thu Jul 16 00:00:10 2009
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03:08<blathijs>Aali: isn't x=x++ undefined behaviour in C?
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04:45<TrueBrain>soef soef
04:47<Forked>sorry about that, my efnet server was borked and you were the first to think of to ping here to double check it wasn't my connection (or my isp) :)
04:52<TrueBrain>I thought it was funny :)
04:53<Alberth>isn't is "meep meep", "zoef" ?
04:54<TrueBrain>Alberth: yeah, but that is no fun
04:55<Alberth>agreed :)
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05:02<planetmaker>salut :)
05:03<planetmaker>Alberth, concerning the screenshot thread: Even though OpenGFX isn't finished (what NewGRF ever is?), IMO the OpenGFX version of my tropical scenario looks nicer :) - more diverse station images and better lake graphics mainly :)
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05:05<Alberth>yes, that's the problem. It looks so much nicer :)
05:06<planetmaker>Well... I don't see why the fact that OpenGFX isn't entirely finished is a problem :)
05:06<planetmaker>well... might be for playing in toyland...
05:07<planetmaker>And I have to admit: I bulldozed two buildings which were black boxes :P
05:07<Alberth>that's also a way to get rid of black boxes :)
05:07<planetmaker>but I guess they're gone in latest one month :)
05:08<Alberth>maybe we should implement such an auto-bulldoze function :p
05:08<planetmaker>born_acorn tackles one, and the other another guy whose name I forgot
05:08<planetmaker>haha :)
05:08<planetmaker>luckily OpenTTD has no such function to know what the sprite looks like :)
05:09<planetmaker>OpenTTD beautiness verification routine :P
05:09<Alberth>'hmm, this sprite uses only one colour, that cannot be good'
05:10<Alberth>Well you've got the name problem covered adequately already :)
05:10<planetmaker>lol :)
05:12<Alberth>To be fair to OpenGFX, maybe we should add a few screenshots with it.
05:12<planetmaker>maybe it will make people ask "where can I get that newgrf?" :)
05:13<Alberth>I'll wait a bit longer though, there are only 2 usable shots now.
05:13<planetmaker>no rush :)
05:13<planetmaker>btw, I also think that the bit more uniform base tiles make toyland look so much better :)
05:14<planetmaker>I kinda start to like it :)
05:15<Alberth>yes it does. I used to play toyland several years back without much problems. Last week I tried it again, but closed the window very soon due to the awful distracting colours. The OpenGFX variant is much nicer, but not very playable due to all the black boxed industries imho.
05:16<planetmaker>yes, I fully agree. It's virtually impossible to find the proper industry where to deliver your cargo
05:17<planetmaker>I really hope that someone dares to take on the missing industry sprites soon...
05:17<Alberth>maybe you should give your black boxes different colours :p
05:17<planetmaker>:) Well... it would be a very dirty hack :)
05:18<Alberth>or an advertisement 'your sprite could be here'
05:18<planetmaker>the black boxes are actually quite nice to really show "here's missing something!"
05:18<planetmaker>Now... that is a nice idea!
05:19<Alberth>yeah, the black boxes do push the idea 'we need a sprite' very good :)
05:19<planetmaker>they're generated actually very easily: taken the original *.grf. And made everything black which was not pure white :)
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05:20<planetmaker>so... OpenGFX includes the modified original files where everything is blackened :)
05:21<Alberth>luckily, the original bits cannot be recovered like on a HD
05:21<planetmaker>and black boxes can hardly be copyrighted ;)
05:21<Alberth>you'd be amazed what is possible :)
05:21<planetmaker>:) I guess.... but, well...
05:22<Alberth>getting actual money for use of black boxes will be a bit more difficult though
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05:23<planetmaker>well, the point is to be safe. Whether for money or other claims. (besides an alternative)
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05:31<Ammler>Alberth: maybe, we could replace the black boxes with google ads?
05:32<Alberth>yeah, but if you click on it, we don't get paid by google :(
05:32<@Rubidium>Alberth: actually, we ought to make it do that... makes them even more useless for industries!
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06:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16841 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: spaces/tabs where they don't belong
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06:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16842 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: add some spaces around a few operators
06:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16843 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: More documentation for the WWT_MATRIX widget, and better variable names in matrix rendering function.
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06:40<Noldo>cleaning day?
06:42<edeca>Looks like it
06:42<TrueBrain>how is your room doing?
06:43<yorick>hey edeca
06:43<yorick>long time no see :p
06:44<edeca>Hi yorick
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06:45<edeca>I encountered a brief bored weekend and decided to play games again.
06:45<edeca>Theme Hospital, specifically
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06:46<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: still nobody has donate a roomba to me
06:46<yorick>hey dragonhorseboy
06:46<yorick>fundraisers :)
06:46<dragonhorseboy>how're you yorick?
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06:47<TrueBrain>poor Rubidium
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06:53<dragonhorseboy>well either way I wanted ask if you had to use digital output (instead of vga) to get scaling/etc in a pc or no?
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06:56<TrueBrain>I love scaling PCs
06:56<TrueBrain>I heat them up to around 1000C
06:56<TrueBrain>then they become .. scalable
06:56<TrueBrain>very cool feature
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06:57<dragonhorseboy>truebrain are you even reading?
06:57<dragonhorseboy>"output" and "vga" .. what else
06:58<TrueBrain>ah, yes, you make so much more sense now
06:58*dragonhorseboy pokes truebrain to change to smallbrain unless he can actually read properly
06:58<TrueBrain>let me see if I can count to 10 today
06:59<Noldo>dragonhorseboy: why would you want to scale pc?
07:00<TrueBrain>or he want to scale something in his pc
07:00<TrueBrain>maybe ... his CPU?
07:00<TrueBrain>twice as big CPU is twice as fast
07:00<TrueBrain>(or 4, depending on how you scale, I guess)
07:00<Noldo>why would a buy one in the first place if it's in the wrong scale?
07:00<dragonhorseboy>noldo..its not the pc
07:00<TrueBrain>so confusing :(
07:01<@Rubidium>it's IN the PC. That'd mean that he wants to scale the space IN the PC that isn't the PC, so it sounds like he wants to know whether you need digital output for a TARDIS like vehicle.
07:02<TrueBrain>or maybe he just means that he wants to be able to make his PC bigger one day, and make it smaller the other
07:02<TrueBrain>have a bit of scale in his PC, so to say :p
07:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: btw, it suprises me that your ignore list is to narrow minded .. I expected more of your ignore list :p
07:06<Noldo>in this economic climate one needs to scale back
07:06<TrueBrain>to = so
07:06<dragonhorseboy>nevermind I got answer from someone else ;)
07:06<TrueBrain>there was someone who understood you?! WOW!
07:07<TrueBrain>that is one amazing person
07:09<dragonhorseboy>now... intel board or not... hmm heh
07:11<TrueBrain>(I love borat)
07:12<dragonhorseboy>truebrain .. I don't see one single borat in either newegg or :p
07:19<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if I would put everyone on my ignore list that annoys me a bit I better have a 'do not ignore' list
07:19<TrueBrain>Rubidium: fair enough :)
07:23<planetmaker>:) Manual ignore works best :)
07:23<TrueBrain>automated ignore
07:23<TrueBrain>if users talks more than N lines with no more than 5 chars, ignore
07:23<TrueBrain>sounds reasonable
07:24<planetmaker>nah... a computer can never make as well sense as my convoluted mind - at least not that it suits me :P
07:24<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker at least you do know what that little button on front of case is for tho right?
07:24<planetmaker>I even think of removing the two persons from the ignore I have in my foes list at tt-forums
07:24<@Rubidium>the ignore list on the forums is pointless anyway
07:24<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy, hu?
07:25<TrueBrain>very pointless
07:25<@Rubidium>dragonhorseboy: 1) it isn't a button, 2) it's IRDA
07:25<planetmaker>I've actually no idea what you're talking about, dragonhorseboy ...
07:26<TrueBrain>planetmaker: join the club
07:26<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker I guess you are quite convoluted then
07:26<planetmaker>I've many buttons here, and I assume that I know the use of most, both hardware and software ones, but... ?
07:26<dragonhorseboy>either way I've only had one single irc ignore for a long time (still have it) .. one stupid person on freenode can't stop yelling abusive words nonstop
07:27<dragonhorseboy>a wonder he hasn't been banned from freenode :|
07:32<edeca>For annoying you specifically? :)
07:32<edeca>"user is K-Lined (annoyed dragonhorseboy)"
07:32<TrueBrain>can we blame him?
07:32<dragonhorseboy>edeca..nope..about everyone in the channel
07:33<dragonhorseboy>which is why I have to wonder why he never got banned yet
07:33<TrueBrain>a channel with 2 users
07:33<dragonhorseboy>truebrain.. 20+ active actually
07:33<TrueBrain>you have yourself a botnet, he?
07:33<dragonhorseboy>he even sometimes annoy ##electronics at times as I've heard from others
07:34<edeca>Who cares about an electronics channel?
07:34<dragonhorseboy>truebrain..all i got is just a simple irc client..thats all
07:34*edeca giggles#
07:34<dragonhorseboy>edeca..a lot..especially for house wirings too :)
07:34<edeca>dragonhorseboy: That was a joke. Check the user list for ##electronics on freenode. Hint: "edeca".
07:35<edeca>dragonhorseboy: If you need a bigger hint, send a postage paid envelope.
07:35<TrueBrain>edeca: ieuw
07:35<edeca>TrueBrain: You what?
07:35<TrueBrain>dirty talk :p
07:36<edeca>TrueBrain: YAY!
07:36*edeca goes to make coffee
07:36<TrueBrain>me too
07:37*yorick ieuws
07:37<Forked>coffee <3
07:37*planetmaker slurps some tea
07:37<yorick>coffee will kill humanity!
07:38<planetmaker>and beware of di-hydrogenmonoxide
07:38<planetmaker>It kills thousands annually
07:38<yorick>very dangerous when inhaled!
07:38<TrueBrain>lol @ planetmaker
07:38<@Rubidium>the well ignored killer
07:39<TrueBrain>you spoiled the joke :(
07:40<yorick>no, the fml spoiled the joke!
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08:06<Limpaar>Hi everyone... I have a problem in OTTD..
08:07<Limpaar>my trains are nor replaced automatically even tho I pressed replace trains to different type of trains
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08:07<Limpaar>trains have visited depos 5 times already but have not been upgraded
08:08<Limpaar>only one of them all upgraded.. others are still old ones ... why?
08:08<SmatZ>do you have enough money?
08:08<Limpaar>yes.. over 1 mil
08:08<SmatZ>you have to have at least ~500k after replacing
08:08<SmatZ>it's in the settings
08:08<Limpaar>trains to replace: From Ginzu to next level
08:08<SmatZ>try setting that value to zero
08:08<SmatZ>"Money after autoreplace" or so
08:08<SmatZ>in the Advanced settings
08:09<Limpaar>just a sec.. I'll check
08:10<Limpaar>hmm.. that helped... but why one train replaced?.. .I didn't have that much money when first one was replaced
08:11<Limpaar>well... anyway... now it works... thanx a lot
08:14<SmatZ>you are welcome :)
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08:18<dragonhorseboy>I've always had that particular ottd setting set to +6 months old and $0 cash required. then again I don't even use autoreplace much at all because by the time the engines are old there's likely train/network changes already due by then
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08:47<SmatZ>hello Belugas
08:48<planetmaker>'lo Belugas :)
08:49<@Belugas>hello boys
08:49<@Belugas>well... men... but still...)
08:53<yorick>hello Belugas
08:54<planetmaker>we're all young in the heart, Belugas - or we could just as well start grave digging, if we lost our youth there :)
08:59<@Belugas>yes indeed, we're still young at heart :) we still like toys!
08:59<@Belugas>just that..over the years, the towns are geting more expensive
09:00<@Belugas>and complex.. but still :D
09:00*planetmaker hugs Belugas. exactly! :)
09:01*yorick hugs Belugas
09:01<@Belugas>I feel GooD
09:01<@Belugas>I Know That i Would
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11:07<PeterT>!join #tycoon
11:07<TrueBrain>@kick PeterT wrong channel
11:07-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [wrong channel]
11:07<SmatZ>TrueBrain: you were faster :-p
11:07<TrueBrain>glx: your script is faluty
11:08<TrueBrain>SmatZ: sorry :)
11:10<TrueBrain>lol: mycom TOSLink connector: 15 euro
11:11<TrueBrain>conrad TOSLink conenctor: 5 euro
11:11<TrueBrain>identical (even the branch)
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11:14<yorick>TrueBrain: that's no wrong channel, he just used ! instead of / :-)
11:17<TrueBrain>does it look like I care?
11:17<dihedral>TrueBrain, who says that glx had a script :-D
11:19<@Belugas>we know
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11:25<TrueBrain>dihedral: I have knowledge of which you don't have any knowledge ;)
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11:29<+glx>and if it was possible, no script would be needed
11:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16844 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Doc (r13182): Remove documentation of removed window event handling function.
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12:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16845 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Introduction of constants for describing the bits in a WWT_MATRIX data field.
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12:33*Akoz pokes Belugas
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12:41<PeterT>did you fix the patch Akoz?
12:42<Akoz>There are no known bugs
12:42<Akoz>if you have any please do let me know
12:43<planetmaker> <-- I guess he means his failed attempt to get it working
12:43<@Belugas>who sommoned me?
12:43<@Belugas>who salmoned me?
12:43<Akoz>good morning :p
12:43<@Belugas>good afternoon
12:44<Akoz>no way
12:44<Akoz>youre in canada
12:44<@Rubidium>:O ... I like Salmon... if not bread in captivity
12:44<@Belugas>yeah and it's 12:45ish
12:44<Akoz>rly O_o
12:44<@Belugas>in a quiche!
12:44<Akoz>I like salmon regardless of how its bread
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12:44<Akoz>but 99% of it is bread in captivity
12:45<@Rubidium>but the other 1% tastes much better
12:45<@Belugas>well... there are parts of canada where it's not 12:45ish yet
12:45<@Belugas>i guess you're not a salmon addict, otherwise you'd know
12:45<@Rubidium>but then, tastes differ ;)
12:45<@Belugas>or gastronom
12:45<@Belugas>not gastropod, of course
12:46<yorick>Belugas is Canadian :O
12:46*yorick :Os
12:46*Akoz pokes yorick
12:46<@Belugas>i am??? holy shit! I never knew that!!!
12:46<Akoz>where are you from then?
12:46<@Belugas>my home?
12:46<Akoz>no no the other guy
12:47<Akoz>the one that's O:-ing
12:47<@Belugas>yorick? from my nghtmares!
12:47<@Rubidium>Belugas: lies... he was born onto my ignore list!
12:47*yorick pokes Akoz
12:47<PeterT>did you see my compile?
12:48<Akoz>no peter
12:48<@Belugas>yeah, it was running in the toilets, last i've known
12:48<Akoz>try with another patch and see if you can make that working
12:48<PeterT>so what is this patch for if it doesnt work?
12:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16846 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the content download status window only use nested widgets
12:49*Akoz slaps yorick around a bit with a big yodeling PeterT
12:49<yorick>NOT THE PETERT
12:49<yorick>and I'm from the dutchlands
12:49<Akoz>oh yes. learn to like it
12:50<Akoz>ah. not far from here then
12:50<yorick>don't know know him
12:50<yorick>norse people...
12:50<yorick>not the norse peopl..
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12:53<Nick>How do I take control over MY company in a saved online game?
12:53<@Belugas>mmh... poor Rubidium, living in the same country as yorick :(
12:53<@Belugas>use the CHEAT, Nick
12:53<planetmaker>Nick: use the cheat window. Or open a (local) server
12:53<Nick>the cheat?
12:54<Nick>i have loaded it offline...
12:54<@Belugas>yup. not the cheap. not the chip. the Cheat
12:54<@Belugas>or the chic. or the sheik. maybe the shit. or ...
12:55<planetmaker>hm... chips and chicks?
12:55<Nick>"i have just betrayed my fellow competitors"
12:55<@Belugas>the check!
12:55<planetmaker>hehe @ Nick
12:55<@Belugas>chicks... right...
12:56<planetmaker>fish and chicks... :P
12:56<@Belugas>check the sheik
12:57<@Belugas>cheat the chick
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12:57<planetmaker>They might not like that :P
12:57<@Belugas>they don't have to know...
12:57<planetmaker>also true ;)
12:58<@Belugas>qucik, delete the logs!!
12:58<planetmaker>you may have both, wife and girl friend... just make sure they never meet....
12:59<@Belugas>you know what? i don't like to live dangerously
12:59<Chruker>How does openttd decide where to put the downloaded content? One openttd folder have the stuff in the program folder and another stores it in my user settings location
12:59<PeterT>lol @ "<Belugas> or the chic. or the sheik. maybe the shit"
12:59<Akoz>just make sure to designate a seperate memory area for each that doesnt overlap
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13:01<@Belugas>memroy corruption is not reserved to computers only
13:01<Akoz>I was talking about your wives
13:02<planetmaker>Belugas, yeah... it needs too many things to remember...
13:02<+glx>Chruker: depends on openttd.cfg location
13:04<yorick>I had such a thing with plastic fish once
13:04<planetmaker>bubbles is so much cooler :)
13:04<planetmaker>and they change colours
13:05<dihedral>yorick, i hooked it up to our continuous integration server
13:05<dihedral>any time a build or test fails, the bubbles hit the tube :-D
13:06<planetmaker>oh, the bubbles are released only when something fails?
13:07<yorick>does the colour depend on which build failed?
13:07<dihedral>once the new relay arrives, yes
13:08<dihedral>+ a new LED ... (100 lumen) :-D
13:08<dihedral>that one has about 30 :-P
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13:08<dihedral>for a LED that is pretty darn good
13:09<planetmaker>you can get 20...40% more even
13:09<planetmaker>LUXEON® III Star High Power LEDs bieten 190+ Lumen pro
13:09<planetmaker>^^ 90% more :)
13:10<dihedral>it already is a super flux led ^^
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13:10<dihedral>"bieten bis zu 120 Lumen pro Einheit"
13:10<dihedral>that's 20% more
13:11<planetmaker>Luxeon III :)
13:11<planetmaker>^^ most power. Though lumen is... a bad unit
13:11<planetmaker>but good for physiological brightness
13:11<dihedral>i do want the developers to be able to SEE their code again
13:11<planetmaker>it should jump their throats, if it fails :P
13:11<planetmaker>would teach them greater care! :P
13:12<dihedral>another admin said, fill the tank with petrol and switch the led for a little flame, they will sure quickly learn not to commit crap :-D
13:12<planetmaker>though... ^^ won't happen :)
13:12<planetmaker>it will just burn... unless you close the box
13:12*SmatZ closes the box
13:13<Chruker>Are there anyway to specify a single ai+save+config location for all openttd installs? And not the one in the Windows user settings.
13:13<dihedral>it does have a lid!
13:13*planetmaker runs
13:13<dihedral>Chruker, there even is a readme file
13:13<+glx>and no
13:13<dihedral>most paths are relative to the config file
13:14<dihedral>so if you start openttd with -c <relative path to config file>
13:14<dihedral>and if you dont like specifying, write a patch and compile yourself :-D
13:14<+glx>ha yes I forgot -c
13:16<dihedral>planetmaker, those led's do need cooling though (well the one i have does too :-P)
13:17<planetmaker>of course they do. But attachment to a metal surface suffices
13:17<planetmaker>(I run a few of those here :) )
13:17<Chruker>see it was the -c thingy I needed
13:17<+glx>user water cooling ;)
13:18<planetmaker>bad in vacuum environments :P
13:18<+glx>but for dihedral it could work
13:18<planetmaker>sure :)
13:19<planetmaker>But attaching it to the (a) metal foot works easier, I guess, as that's what he most likely will need anyway
13:26<dihedral>it's not a metal socket :-P
13:26<dihedral>but yeah, a small something will do the trick
13:35<Chruker>hmm, the -c just moved the config file, but the data stuff was still in the wrong directory
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13:37<@Belugas>maybe it should have been ++c ?
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13:42<Alberth>no, it looks like c, it is compatible with c, but more powerful :)
13:43<@Rubidium>lies... what compiles in C doesn't necessarily work in C++
13:43<Alberth>c++ is not a stable language, at the time c++ was invented, it probably was true
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16847 /trunk/src/lang/ (esperanto.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt russian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: esperanto - 5 changes by tradukanto
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 58 changes by CyberKenny
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
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14:20<SmatZ> hehe, I wanted to reply the same ;)
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14:24<Alberth>I wanted to reply 'yeah, you are better, I never got beyond 13,999,999,999' :)
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14:24<SmatZ>you are nice, Alberth :)
14:25<Alberth>(maybe 'I am better, I got 14,000,000,001' is better :D )
14:26<Alberth>however, in both cases I would have to lie :p
14:27<@Rubidium>Alberth: just rig a savegame ;)
14:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16848 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: Trying to reduce a nested widget window further than the smallest alowed size should not crash the game.
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15:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16849 /trunk/src/ (28 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetCargo() by CargoSpec::Get()
15:02<PeterT>is there a way to disable terraforming?
15:02<planetmaker>except you patch the server
15:03<PeterT>and if it is patched, is that a patch that you need a special version to join?
15:03<planetmaker>usually yes
15:04<planetmaker>though there might be an implementation where that might not be necessary, if enough woodoo has been made
15:04<PeterT>ok, too bad
15:04<frosch123>disallowing terraform? should be easy, just kick the player who wants to use it, before he can do it
15:04<PeterT>ok, why dont i just ban all players because they "might" terraform
15:05<planetmaker>nah. More fun to watch them and put signs where they work and tell them to stop :)
15:05<Alberth>there are NewGRFs that make terraforming expensive
15:05<frosch123>I meant: automatically kick him in the moment he presses the mousebutton to terraform
15:06<PeterT>there was a patch for that, but it wasnt updated for 0.7.0
15:06<Alberth>wouldn't it be more fun if thelandscape un-terraformed itself after a while? :p
15:06<planetmaker>There was a patch in wwottdgd/2 :)
15:07<planetmaker>And yes, I know it.
15:07<planetmaker>Alberth, not only life rivers, but life landscape!
15:07<planetmaker>with erosion, flooding, land slides, volcanos... :D
15:07<PeterT>whats that trick, insert base costs mod in scn editor, then take it out and the prices will still be high
15:07<planetmaker>desasters would be minor in comparison ;)
15:08<frosch123>PeterT: just add "if (_current_company != OWNER_TOWN && _current_company != OWNER_NONE) return CMD_ERROR;" at the top of CmdTerraformLand
15:08<Alberth>Phew, I got only struck by a disaster :)
15:08<PeterT>i add that to the source code im guessing
15:08<planetmaker>meh :P
15:08<PeterT>what does that do then?
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15:10<frosch123>it will disallow all companies to disallow. if the patch is present on all machines it will work fine, if it is only present on the server it will work fine for those who do not terraform. if someone uses terraform he will immediatelly desync when he tries to
15:10<Alberth>send him a PM :)
15:10<frosch123>*to terraform
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15:40<@Belugas>what Have I missed? what Have I missed? what Have I missed? what Have I missed?
15:41<Noldo>all the good stuff
15:42<Forked>Belugas: you missed me.. and I love you too! :D
15:42<@Belugas>as usual...
15:42<@Belugas>puuuuuuurrrrrrr puuuuuuuurrrr
15:43<@Belugas>haaaa.... some good DeathMole :D
15:44<@Belugas>Akoz, watch your eyes, there's one that will fall...
15:44<Akoz>oh noes
15:45<Akoz>planetmaker: just decline all terraform packets on the server. it'll be as if it never happened :)
15:46<planetmaker>Akoz, that's what I meant. I didn't want to be too verbose... :)
15:47<planetmaker>That patch somewhere exists in my collection for wwottdgd/2 - in that form
15:47<planetmaker>actually... written by our master-patcher, smatzy-patchy :)
15:49<@Belugas>hoooo.... the other one can grow too...
15:49<@Belugas>whoooohoooo... that is funny!
15:49*Akoz hands Belugas another beer
15:50<@Belugas>at work???
15:50<planetmaker>Belugas, sure.
15:50<Akoz>I dont see the problem
15:50<planetmaker>Here it's only forbidden to enjoy alcohol.
15:50<planetmaker>So we just... get rid of it :)
15:50<@Belugas>might as well go back to home right away...
15:50<@Belugas>mmh...not only my wife, but peter would behappy
15:50<planetmaker>(in German language it's a better play on words)
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16:07<Chruker>how come the opengfx doesnt have trams?
16:08<+glx>it's a replacement for original grfs
16:08<frosch123>because it is an replacement, not an addition
16:08<@Belugas>why do you think it should?
16:08<frosch123>but you can volunteer for opengfx+ :)
16:10<PeterT>why wouldnt it? aren't trams part of the game?
16:11<Chruker>Were the graphics for electrified railways in the original TTD?
16:12<frosch123>Chruker: catenary is a static-safe addition
16:12<KenjiE20>no, aren't ottd catenaries just overlays though?
16:12<frosch123>those do not count
16:13<PeterT>if cargo dest will be in a stable soon, will there be an option to turn it off?
16:13<frosch123>trams are subject to newgrfs, not base graphics. as you have to load exactly one base graphics set, but you can multiple or none newgrfs
16:14<frosch123>PeterT: there is already an option to turn it off, just none to turn it on
16:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16850 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify some naming of variables between waypoints and stations.
16:15<frosch123>btw. it is impolite to leave after asking a question while someone is writing an answer
16:17<Chruker>who left?
16:17<@Rubidium>frosch123: YES
16:18<frosch123>Rubidium: "night" does not count as question :)
16:18<@Belugas>PeterT, Chruker : no, trams are not part of orignal TTD
16:18<planetmaker>probably it might even have some in the extra part. Not sure about the specs, though
16:19*PeterT didn't leave
16:19<PeterT>@seen yorick
16:19<@DorpsGek>PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <yorick> does the colour depend on which build failed?
16:26<Chruker>Given that the Street Cars has its own menu item, I would have expected the game to come with the needed graphics.
16:26<+glx>Chruker: one day the menu items will appear only when required graphics are present
16:27<planetmaker>Chruker, as is all rail types whether engines are available or not
16:27<+glx>and that day way more road "types" will be available
16:27<frosch123>oh, with "Street Cars" you mean "trams", not the StreetCarAI :)
16:27<+glx>yes he means trams :)
16:27<Chruker>yes trams :-)
16:28<Chruker>planetmaker, but the difference is that the 'disabled' railtypes will be available at some point during the gameplay.
16:28<frosch123>not true
16:28<Chruker>If I havent got the tram gfx, that 'later date' will never come.
16:29<Chruker>How so, frosch?
16:29<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16851 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use StationSpecList in waypoint too
16:29<+glx>Chruker: you can ask the same about electrified railway
16:29<frosch123>there are lots of newgrf, which replace the maglev trains with normal trains, so maglev will never become available
16:29<+glx>in original game they didn't exist either
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16:30<planetmaker>or electrical in arctic climate
16:30<Chruker>glx, I was unsure if they were in the original ttd. But thought I was wrong after somebody said the wires were overlays
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16:31<SmatZ>hello Yexo
16:31<Yexo>hi SmatZ
16:31<frosch123>evening yexo :)
16:32<Yexo>hello frosch123
16:32<planetmaker>ho Yexo
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16:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i am lacking a switch :(
16:36-!-Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:37*SmatZ gives Eddi|zuHause a switch
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>even stranger... i don't have an equal number of left and right switches...
16:38<Noldo>I picked up old regional ship pathfinding once again
16:38<Noldo>doomed to fail once again
16:38<+glx>that's not logical Eddi|zuHause
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>i have 6 left switches and 9 right switches (two of which are broken)
16:39<planetmaker>wth is a left and what a right switch?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>|/ vs. \| ?
16:40<+glx>miniature train I guessed :)
16:40<planetmaker>oh :)
16:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16852 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use FOR_ALL_CARGOSPECS for iterating over all valid CargoSpecs
16:40<SmatZ>wth is a switch?
16:40<planetmaker>I wasn't thinking of a railway but of a piece of computer hardware :D
16:40<SmatZ>ahh, Eddi|zuHause is playing with trains? :)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, with tracks for now...
16:41*Belugas loves doing that with his son
16:41*Belugas ishappy to have a son and not a daughter
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>trying to have two lines and a 5 track station... looks like the station entrance needs to be single track, then i can live with two less switches
16:42<planetmaker>he :)
16:42<Noldo>having a son is nice because you can buy rc-cars and other thing for yourself then
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>that, or i can't reach every platform from every line
16:43<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, how that? No space?
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16:43<Eddi|zuHause>because i am lacking a switch...
16:44<planetmaker>... ok. It's a real model track then, not a virtual one :)
16:44<+glx>use a broken one and find an excuse for the passengers ;)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>no... i'll use the broken one for some kind of switchyard... i don't need them there ;)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>having them on the main track is too dangerous
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16:53<@Belugas>hehehe "You're a funny man"...
16:54<@Belugas>And you're a fool to think your big "canon" can do anything you want at lightning speed...
16:54<@Belugas>a guy on forums
16:55<@Belugas>like... 3 cores (huhuhu) 4 gig of ram (Ho... so impressed) and i don't know which video card...
16:55<planetmaker>hehe that one. Yes, read it.
16:55<@Belugas>he expects the game to run normally under huge load...
16:56<planetmaker>he... a simple video stream gives me here 80%...
16:57<@Rubidium>or flash?
16:57<planetmaker>I guess it's java. Not entirely sure, though
16:58<@Rubidium>especially flash is slow and power hungry on (at least) non Microsoft OSes
16:59<planetmaker>that's why I increasingly dislike flash ads
17:00<+glx>animated gifs are not better for cpu
17:01<@Rubidium>planetmaker: adblockers work relatively well on that
17:01<+glx>it works for everything :)
17:15<Yexo>good night
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17:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16853 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp cargotype.h): -Codechange: make CargoSpec const at two places
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18:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16854 /trunk/src/saveload/ (afterload.cpp waypoint_sl.cpp):
18:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix (r2046): savegames from before this version would get the town id as their
18:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: 'index' (#<num). For stations with custom names that custom name would be
18:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dropped and the lowest 6 bits of the StringID would be used for the 'index'. In
18:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: other words, it resulted in a mess.
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19:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16855 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove unused 'conversion' stuff from the waypoint struct and make it more similar to Station.
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19:24<NeO_Anderson>hey dudes, is it normal that after about 100years for the game to become really slow/laggy/choppy?
19:24<NeO_Anderson>like everything is in slow motion :S
19:25<@Rubidium>that depends on what is happening
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19:25<@Rubidium>usually it's not the number of years but the vast amount of vehicles etc.
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19:28<NeO_Anderson>I've tried restarting when it gets to this stage
19:28<NeO_Anderson>using the "restart" command in console
19:28<NeO_Anderson>altho this does reduce the lag/slowmotion
19:28<NeO_Anderson>it doesnt fix it completely
19:29<@Rubidium>running AIs?
19:30<@Rubidium>and what version are you using?
19:31<NeO_Anderson>AIs are disabled
19:31<NeO_Anderson>im usin latest version
19:31<NeO_Anderson>linux server
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>there is no such thing as a "latest" version
19:32<@Rubidium>latest being? 0.7.1, 0.7.2-RC1, r16847, r16855? My crystal ball tells you mean r16855
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19:33<NeO_Anderson>the one on the download page
19:33<NeO_Anderson> this one
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>so you mean the "latest stable" version
19:33<@Rubidium>the first 3 I mentioned are on the download apge
19:33<NeO_Anderson>yes latest stable version
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>then, please, say that next time.
19:35<@Rubidium>and restarting the server should help, assuming it starts a new game because all vehicle will be gone
19:36<NeO_Anderson>Eddi|zuHause, I wasn't aware tehre were more than one version of this game...
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>there are dozens of them...
19:37<NeO_Anderson>and I'm suppose to automatically know this how?
19:37<NeO_Anderson>ty Rubidium
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>you don't
19:37<NeO_Anderson>my point exactly Eddi|zuHause
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19:51<Akoz>does tracks with many intersections cause more lagg?
19:51<Akoz>or is it lots of trains that causes lagg in big games?
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19:53<@Rubidium>lots of intersections, lots of signals, lots of vehicles: all cause more lag
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20:11<Akoz>is this: layout causing a lot of lagg? would it be significantly better to reduce the amount of intersections ?
20:11<Akoz>comparedy to (if it was equally many tracks)
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20:30<@Rubidium>ofcourse what is "lot", 1 is more expensive CPU wise than 2
20:31<Akoz>but it could be like 10-20% at least if I went from 1 to 2 and I have most my trains running the same track?'
20:31<Akoz>guess I have some work in front of me
20:32<Akoz>the server has 1400 trains now
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20:38<@Rubidium>the YAPF pathfinder usually caches stuff from junction to junction. Adding more junctions means smaller caches and more needs to be calculated when finding a path
20:38<@Rubidium>e.g. in the first image the train has to choose at least 10 times and it has to consider several times more different paths; even if the destination is straight ahead the signals cause the train to look at the neighbouring routes
20:38<@Rubidium>so it will calulcate and then ignore about 30 paths
20:38<@Rubidium>with 2 is would need to calculate 3 paths
20:38<@Rubidium>and with 1 it has to redo the calculations each time it reaches another junction
20:38<@Rubidium>even so, 1400 trains is quite a lot
20:39<Akoz>yes and we're not even close to the goal
20:40<Akoz>so it only calculates when it reaches a path signal?
20:40<@Rubidium>no, when it reaches a junction
20:40<Akoz>oh, ok
20:40<@Rubidium>or even more precise, when it needs to take a decision on a junction
20:41<Aali>YAPF caches some things per-path (junction)
20:41<@Rubidium>which means that those big washboard junctions are quite uhm... unoptimal
20:41<Akoz>washboard junctions ey.. :)¨
20:42<Akoz>unoptimal for cpu... more optimal for trains
20:42<Akoz>its all about the balance
20:42<Aali>but obviously signals need to be considered every time
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20:42<Akoz>so if theres signals every 1 step of the way (with no junctions) that takes quite some cpu as well?
20:43<@Rubidium>yes, but that's due to updating signal blocks
20:43<Akoz>btw paths are then calculated over and over again for each decision.. theres no storage at all?
20:44<@Rubidium>Aali: YAPF doesn't cache paths through junctions
20:44<Aali>Rubidium: of course
20:44<Aali>but, straight lines (no junctions) cannot be cached entirely either, because of the signals
20:45<Aali>that was my point
20:45<@Rubidium>Aali: they can because after a few signals the signals are ignored
20:46<@Rubidium>ignored for path cost calculations
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21:01<Akoz>how come one keeps getting more and more "unable to load save game" and "network sync errors" the longer the game you try to join has run?
21:01<Akoz>and is there any workarounds?
21:02<+glx>modified server/client ?
21:02<Akoz>doesnt happen during gameplay though
21:02<Akoz>only on-join
21:03<Akoz>and only on late games
21:03<Akoz>big games.. big load files
21:03<+glx>so something is not saved when it should
21:04<Akoz>the clients arent modified in any way.. nor is anything to do with the savegame stuff
21:04<Akoz>is this unheard of in unmodified server/clients?
21:06<+glx>the rule is simple, clients and server should do exactly the same and have the same state (map, cached values, ...)
21:07<Akoz>afaik it has though.. all I've modified is added some extra stored values for the server only, and then I interrupt some command packages, and send some
21:07<Akoz>nothing that should interfer with basic game play
21:08<Akoz>or in the savefiles I mean
21:08<+glx>anyway sync errors are the hardest to debug
21:09<Akoz>how about "unable to load savegame" ?
21:11<+glx>can be for many reasons, more details are available with sl debug_level (I don't know the minimum level required though)
21:12<Akoz>worth a shot. thx
21:12<Akoz>do u know the cmd to turn off the "queried from" debug msgs?
21:13<+glx>debug_level net0
21:14<Akoz>is there a way to turn off chat ?
21:14<+glx>probably not
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21:20<+glx>indeed not
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 17 00:00:12 2009