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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-18

---Logopened Sat Jul 18 00:00:13 2009
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03:36<Alberth>good morning
03:36<Yrol>hello alberth
03:37<Alberth>hello Yrol
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04:32<Lazesharp>hey guys, having trouble getting a linux server working
04:33<Lazesharp>i have to start it on a different port (due to some weird upstream firewall restriction) and when I connect via the console it gets about 60% through downloading the map before disconnecting - no debug message saying why in the server
04:33<Lazesharp>how do I turn on debug messages in the Windows client?
04:34<frosch123>-d [section] level
04:34<Lazesharp>can't turn it on once in game?
04:35<@Rubidium>debug_level in the in-game console
04:35<Lazesharp>I tried that, didn't seem to give me anything
04:35<Lazesharp>ok, turns out -d 10 makes the game un-loadable :P
04:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16868 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify UpdateAll[Station|Waypoint]VirtCoords
04:42<Lazesharp>hmm, problem seems to be when the server saves the game as the client connects...
04:42<Lazesharp>dbg: [misc] [Pool] (Savegame) cleaning pool..
04:42<Lazesharp>dbg: [net] Closed client connection 4
04:42<Lazesharp>*** Player has left the game (connection lost)
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04:47<@Rubidium>that's unlikely
04:47<@Rubidium>primarily because it always has to save the game before a client joins as it has to send the game state to the client
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04:47<Alberth>hello fjb
04:48<Yrol>hello fjb
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05:07<Lazesharp>Rubidium: ok, any ideas on how I can better debug the problem?
05:09<@Rubidium>Lazesharp: no, though it sounds like unstable network connection
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05:23<Yexo>good morning
05:23<yorick>Yexo O+
05:23<Yexo>hello yorick :)
05:23<frosch123>morning yexo
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05:26<Alberth>good morning yexo
05:27<Yexo>hi frosch123, Alberth ;)
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05:41<yorick>Alberth: is there any documentation on nested widgets?
05:42<Alberth>there is a PDF describing the general idea in a thread of mine, and in FS#1905. Also, there are two pieces of documentation in doxygen
05:42<yorick>ok :)
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05:43<Alberth>Click 'modules' at the left in the doxygen html doc
05:44<DJ-Burtybob>Hi all, last night I was in here with a linker error and then an error with platform SDK. I have now fixed the PSDK problem but I am left with "gfx.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _ubidi_openSized_4_0" And I tried rebuild but it didn't work. Would I be right in thinking that this error comes from openttd useful??
05:48<yorick>Alberth: "dy Vertical resize step. 0 means no horizontal resizing. "
05:48<yorick>SetResize ;)
05:48<Alberth>sounds wrong, doesn't it :)
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06:00*Rubidium thinks DJ-Burtybob has mixed two openttd usefuls; one 2.i, i < 3 for the headers and 2.3 for the libraries
06:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16869 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make drawing waypoints a tiny bit more like drawing stations
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06:09<yorick>Alberth: could you help me with <-- I want both widgets in the second NWID_HORIZONTAL to resize, but only the first one does
06:11<Alberth>you are converting the NWidget to an old-style widget array?
06:12<Alberth>or do you use the Nwidget tree itself?
06:12<yorick>I'm using the nwidget tree itself
06:12<yorick>need to get the new-newgrf gui to use nested widgets
06:13<Alberth>ok, then what you want is at least supported :)
06:13<Alberth>you mean line 6?
06:14<yorick>I want both widgets in the widget on line 6 to resize equally
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06:16<Alberth>in principle additional resize length is evenly distributed over the members of the containers, so if the 2nd doesn't resize, it cannot do that.
06:16<Alberth>to confirm, you can swap both parts. Then the 2nd should only resize.
06:17*yorick tests
06:18<yorick>Alberth: now the first resizes
06:18<yorick>and not the second, which was previously resizing
06:18<Alberth>in the window constructor you use InitNested() ?
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06:19<yorick>I should? :p
06:19<Alberth>if you "I'm using the nwidget tree itself", yes
06:20<Alberth>otherwise you are converting to old-style widget arrays, which support only 1 widget resize.
06:21<Alberth>if you want to have several widgets resizing there, you need to program that in OnResize
06:21*Alberth searches for an example
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06:22<Lazesharp>Rubidium: network connection isn't the problem, happens at almost exactly the same point in the map download every time
06:22<@Rubidium>Lazesharp: then what is it? It works fine for thousands of others?
06:23<Lazesharp>i get that, i'm guessing there's a problem either with my client setup or my server setup
06:23<@Rubidium>I am at least aware that searching for servers crashes certain DSL/Cable modems
06:23<yorick>Alberth: can I still get widget positions for OnPaint then?
06:23<Lazesharp>wrt the config file, i'm just using the default (with a modified port), that ok?
06:23<Alberth>intro screen is a true nested widget window
06:24<@Rubidium>Lazesharp: yes, changing the port doesn't matter
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06:29<Alberth>yorick: ResizeButtons() is used for old-style multi-widget resizing, cannot find a nice example so quickly.
06:30<Alberth>yorick: assuming you are converting to old-style widget array, all the widgets are in this->widget[] after construction, so yeah, you can access/modify the coords there
06:30<yorick>Alberth: I'm trying not to convert ;)
06:31<Alberth>ah. ok, town-directory may also be interesting then
06:32<Alberth>as for OnPaint, for custom rendering of a widget, you get a call in Window::DrawWidget with the coordinates.
06:32<yorick>aha, I should move my drawing to DrawWidget
06:34<Alberth>and do nothing else than drawing within the given rectangles :)
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06:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16870 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp waypoint.cpp): -Codechange: unmagicify road stop/waypoint picker drawing
06:41*_ln is back from .nl/.be/.lu/.fr/.de/.dk/.se
06:43<Alberth>next year .uk
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06:44<_ln>why not
06:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16871 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Generalize GetWidgetContentSize to UpdateWidgetSize for better control over widget size and resize steps.
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06:58<Smallo>heya folks
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07:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes. i agree.
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07:09<R0b0t1>I suppose this has been answered somewhere but I couldn't find it handy, where do I get the original game files?
07:11<yorick>on the internets
07:11<yorick>or on your original ttd cd
07:11<R0b0t1>I'm a pirate, I know no CD. Guess I'll try google. :D
07:12<TrueBrain>and what made you join here before trying that yourself?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>we are legally not allowed to tell you about 3407
07:12<TrueBrain>lol @ Eddi|zuHause :)
07:12<R0b0t1>Argh you have got to be kidding me
07:13<R0b0t1>Right after I join here I find the wiki page that links me to what I'm looking for.
07:13<TrueBrain>yes, that is a joke
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07:16*_ln even visited Waterloo
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>Waterloo is rubbish... visit Leipzig instead...
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07:19<_ln>and btw, the traffic in Brussels is a total chaos
07:19<R0b0t1>Er, hm.
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>is that different in any other major european city?
07:20<_ln>it is..
07:21<R0b0t1>Where do the ttd files go if I've installed openttd via apt-get? I tried searching more this time, all I find is some bugreports.
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>something along the lines of /usr/share/games/openttd
07:21<Alberth>read the do-not-readme file
07:22<_ln>on most cities you don't have six cars next to each other where there are only two lanes. and as a pedestrian you don't need to worry about getting hit by a car all the time.
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07:22<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: you haven't been in paris then :p
07:22<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: correct
07:23<_ln>but e.g. in amsterdam mostly the bicycles were what a pedestrian should watch out for.
07:23<Sacro>the arc de triumph
07:23<Sacro>that has roughly 7 lanes
07:23<Sacro>roughly as there are no official markings
07:24<_ln>Sacro: i've heard certain car insurances cover the whole europe except for that particular place in paris.
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07:26<Sacro>_ln: tends to be there and the nurburgring that get mentioned
07:26<R0b0t1>TrueBrain: Thanks, now I have itrunning :)
07:26<Sacro>well, that or "one way only autobahns"
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07:27<_ln>btw, has anyone tried what happens when a stupid pigeon hits the car on Autobahn?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>the Avus in berlin was a racing track that is used as Autobahn... or the other way round...
07:27<TrueBrain>R0b0t1: enjoy the game
07:27<TrueBrain>R0b0t1: btw, if you don't want to go illegal, try the OpenGFX grf pack
07:28<Sacro>TrueBrain: "illegal"
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07:28<Sacro>it depends what country he is in to the legalities
07:28<R0b0t1>I bet if you asked the guy he wouldn't mind too much.
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>we tried that
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>didn't work
07:28<Sacro>I don't think he does, but then it's not the graphics guy who can care
07:28<TrueBrain>Sacro: not having an original copy of the original grfs while using them, I consider illegal for the easiness of it all :p
07:28<Sacro>it might be Atari
07:28<Sacro>TrueBrain: it's not illegal in a few european countries
07:28<Sacro>possibly spain
07:29<TrueBrain>Sacro: Netherlands
07:29<TrueBrain>(downloading is not illegal)
07:29<Ammler>well, it is illegal, but in some countries, nobody cares.
07:29<Sacro>so long as not for profit
07:29<Sacro>Ammler: no, i think in spain non-profit is fine
07:29<TrueBrain>Ammler: here it is not illegal
07:29<TrueBrain>enough people care
07:29<TrueBrain>but downloading is not illegal; uploading is
07:30<yorick>unless it's downloading of software/films
07:30<Ammler>which ttd is
07:31<TrueBrain>yorick: movies and music for sure are not illegal
07:31<TrueBrain>I need to check on graphics though ..
07:32<TrueBrain>graphics indeed is illegal :p
07:32<TrueBrain>so we will only use Spain in the above :p
07:33<Ammler>I wouldn't trust Sacro in that case. ;-)
07:33<_ln>it's quite impressive that one can have a new mirror installed on a Volkswagen within 30 minutes of hitting a pigeon.
07:33<TrueBrain>I don't care :) It is easier to use OpenGFX and avoid it :p
07:34<Ammler>well, I don't care, someone is downloading the original graphics, either, he should just be aware doing something illegal.
07:34<Ammler>doing illegal stuff isn't always bad.
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07:34<Ammler>but in this case, it is :-D
07:35<TrueBrain>even more if you can avoid it ;)
07:36<TrueBrain>but I guess there is OpenTTD itself to blame, for not giving the idea there is an alternative on most places :) I hope OpenGFX finishes 100% soon ;)
07:36<TrueBrain>(including toyland :p)
07:37<Ammler>well, if it is finished, the 2nd part begins, making it worth to include :-)
07:37<Alberth>Ammler: right, the people have decided something is bad (through political parties), a law was made by the government, police is enforcing the law, but it is ok to break the law? :p
07:37<Ammler>Alberth: sometimes you have to
07:37<Ammler>e.g. driving faster than allowed :P
07:37*Alberth is waiting on a finished toyland
07:38<Ammler>or staying longer in pub.
07:39<Ammler>well, at least, you don't hurt your eyes anymore.
07:39<Ammler>also snow is much better in opengfx.
07:40<Ammler>Some people don't like the "Zephyris" style. That needs time to get familiar.
07:42<Ammler>python pros:
07:43<Ammler>what does the install tool there, I don't have adduser on my linux box.
07:44<Alberth>Ammler: indeed, snow is less white. Much better.
07:45<DJ-Burtybob>hi all
07:45<yorick>Ammler: it adds a user and then calls options.prefix/share/mercurial-server/init/hginit as that user
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07:50<Ammler>oh, to this is like sudo in python
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it is difficult to get 5 tracks exactly the same length...
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>and i am running out of straight pieces, i think...
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>the theory is: for each switch you need either a slightly longer balancing piece on the branching side, or a slightly shorter balancing piece on the straight side... but i have fewer balancing pieces than switches...
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08:10<Ammler> <-- he, if someone asks for a drawing tool :-)
08:10<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: attach a switch to a switch
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08:11<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that is the problem, not the solution... i have too many switch-cascades to balance out
08:12<Tekky>Hi everyone. Eddi, are you talking about load balancing of trains?
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: a switch has 1/1 length on the straight path, and 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight on the branching path
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>Tekky: no.
08:13<Alberth>can the "slightly shorter balancing piece on the straight side" not be a switch branching side?
08:13<Alberth>Tekky: I don't understand either:)
08:13<yorick>I believe he's talking about real toy trains
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the problem is that 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight + 1/3 straight + 2/3 curve is shorter than 1/1 straight + 1/1 straight
08:14<Tekky>Alberth: I have only just joined IRC a minute ago, therefore I don't know the topic of the discussion :)
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>so i need 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight + 1/3+eps straight + 2/3 curve or 1/1 straight + 2/3-eps straight + 1/3 straight
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>a switch does not include a balancing piece...
08:15<Alberth>are you building a model railroad?
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08:29<Tekky>I am currently looking into the source code of OpenTTD, in order to determine how easy it would be to implement waypoint groups. Such waypoints would be very useful if you have several track lanes. Then the train would take whatever track lane suits him best. Currently, when using waypoints, a waypoint can only be placed on a single track lane.
08:29<+glx>Tekky: wait a little :)
08:29<yorick>Tekky: try stations
08:30<Tekky>yorick: Nah, stations are ugly. :)
08:30<Alberth>Tekky: if you read the recent commits, you'll find that waypoints are currently on the move
08:30<Tekky>Yorick: And they have the major disadvantage that they cause a pathfinder penalty when trains pass through them.
08:31<Tekky>Alberth: SVN comments?
08:31<Alberth>or hg comments :)
08:31<Ammler>vcs to be neutral :P
08:32<Alberth>I am not vcs neutral, I don't like git :p
08:32<Ammler>fully agree :-)
08:33<Ammler>well, people, who use git, don't know hg.
08:34<fjb>Or bazaar...
08:34<Alberth>git was earlier
08:34<Tekky>One thing I do not understand is the following: Would it not be simpler to give trains orders to go to individual signals and introduce the possibility of naming signals? I do not see the need for having waypoints at all.
08:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r16872 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Add RoadVehicle::GetDisplayImageWidth and simplify DrawRoadVehImage.
08:34<Ammler>fjb: that looks like "hg light"
08:35<fjb>Ammler: Then didn't look very close.
08:35<Tekky>Ah, I just noticed, someone on the forum already made that suggestion of using signals as waypoints.
08:35<@Rubidium>any idea how many signals there are?
08:35<Ammler>no, just one checkout :-)
08:36<Alberth>Tekky: there are a LOT of signals from A to B. Also, that would knd of hard-code the exact path and make nice load balancing between different lanes difficult at least
08:36<frosch123>@calc 2047*2047*4
08:36<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 16760836
08:36<Tekky>Rubidium: Yes, but most of these signals are unnamed. Therefore, the pool of named signals would be very small, similar to the size of the pool of waypoints.
08:37<Alberth>fjb: I like the ability to have several branches in a single repo
08:38<fjb>Alberth: And not only that, you can mix a central and distributed repositories.
08:38<Alberth>fjb: hg offers that too
08:38<Tekky>Alberth: As I said before, I was thinking about grouping waypoints. If this idea is applied to signals, it should be possible to group signals, so the train can choose which signal on what track lane it wants to go past.
08:39<Alberth>hmm, a group of signals, each associated with its own block? sounds very complicated
08:40<planetmaker>[14:33] <Rubidium> any idea how many signals there are? <-- in OTTD just 5 (well, plus their one-way variant, so 8)
08:40<planetmaker>in reality: way too many.
08:41<planetmaker>oh... nvm
08:41*frosch123 cannot cast Signal to SignalType
08:41<planetmaker>single signals in a game. Way too many :-P
08:41<@Rubidium>oh, and how do you intend to store the 'name' of the signal?
08:41<Alberth>or show which group a signal belongs to?
08:42<planetmaker> <-- I wonder about why there train #3 also crashes...
08:42<frosch123>Rubidium, Alberth: he does not want to store the index in the map, but everytime scan the whole named-signal pool
08:42<Tekky>Rubidium: I was thinking of adding a pool of signal groups. Every signal group has a name and a list of associated signals.
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08:43<@Rubidium>Tekky: so for each waypoint order you store the name of the signal and then look up that name?
08:45<Tekky>Rubidium: Ah, well, every signal group should also have an ID. I guess it is more efficient if OpenTTD internally uses DWORD IDs instead of strings.
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08:46<Tekky>Rubidium: So a train order will reference the ID of the signal group.
08:46<@Rubidium>yeah, but the map can't store that ID if it has signals on the tile
08:46<@Rubidium>'cause there ain't enough space
08:48<DJ-Burtybob>gfx.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _ubidi_close_4_0
08:48<DJ-Burtybob>Have tried rebuild didn't work :(
08:48<Alberth>Tekky: except a StringID is only 16 bit
08:48<@Rubidium>DJ-Burtybob: you have mixed old openttd-useful with new openttd-useful
08:48<DJ-Burtybob>Ok thanks
08:49<@Rubidium>DJ-Burtybob: the old (2.0-2.2) headers and libraries contain _ubidi_close_4_0. The new headers/libraries use _ubidi_close_4_2
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08:50<Eddi|zuHause>i would like waypoints to be placed on tile edges, so you can place them at any point on a junction or station
08:51<Tekky>Rubidium: I see no reason for the map to reference signal groups. Only the query tool needs to be able to make a list of all signal groups that a certain signal is a member of. Therefore, it would be sufficient to index all signal groups in a hash table, using the map coordinates of the individual signals as the hash key.
08:51<Lazesharp>Rubidium: turns out my server host are running some lame SPI hardware firewall, which I don't want - means I have to use an SSH tunnel to connect >:(
08:51<Lazesharp>thanks for your help though
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>so a waypoint would once again have an advantage over 1-tile-stations
08:51<Tekky>Alberth: I guess all pool items also have a pool ID. Therefore, I guess it would be easiest to use this pool ID.
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>if that is too difficult, allow placing a signal on waypoints
08:52<DJ-Burtybob>So the source I checked out is asking for the "OLD" useful where as I have the "NEW" is that correct?
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08:53<@Rubidium>DJ-Burtybob: no, it's something in the headers that causes the _4_0 or _4_2 added
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08:55<@Rubidium>Tekky: but then the pathfinder must, for each tile with signals, do a lookup to check whether that signal is in the waypoint signal group you're heading to
08:56<Tekky>Eddi: I can't think of any situation where it would be meaningful to NOT place a waypoint on a signal, at least when using PBS signals. Therefore, I think it would be best to treat the signals themselves as potential waypoints.
08:57<fonsinchen>Smatz, yesterday you stated that I was giving you a hard time with the smallmap zooming patch. Can you elaborate some?
08:58<Tekky>Rubidium: Don't you have the same problem with stations with several platforms? Doesn't the pathfinder have to check whether the current tile is part of a station platform of the destination station?
08:58<@Rubidium>Tekky: yes, but that's a simple comparison
08:59<@Rubidium>going through list of waypoint tiles that are part of the waypoint you're heading to
08:59<DJ-Burtybob>Rubidum: What would be causing the confusion? As I download the useful straight from and this is a fresh set up. ps thanks for your time
09:00<@Rubidium>and the number of signal tiles is, in most games, considerably larger than the number of lookups of stations
09:02<@Rubidium>DJ-Burtybob: the on does NOT contain headers that refer to _4_0. So you've got those headers somewhere else installed and MSVC wants to take those headers and the libraries from openttd-useful-2.3
09:04<planetmaker>sorry, my bug report is invalid:
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>Tekky: i see too many difference between waypoints and signals to see a meaningful combination
09:06<Tekky>Rubidium: How does the pathfinder work with multi-platform stations? What does it use as an A* heuristic? Does it use the distance to the bounding box of the station as an heuristic, even if the stations are not rectangular?
09:07<@Rubidium>Tekky: something like that
09:08<+glx>anyway Tekky, wait for current work to be done :)
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09:09<Tekky>Rubidium: Hmmmm, maybe the pathfinder should then also use the bounding box of the waypoint/signal group then..... I must think about that further.
09:10<Tekky>glx: Hehe, what exactly are you currently working on? Do the svn commit notes provide sufficient details?
09:12<+glx>for me they do, starting at r16859
09:12<+glx>at least they give a good indication about what happens :)
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Patrick`: funnily, i hear a different voice than you do...
09:15<Tekky>Eddi: If it is true what I said before that there are no situations where waypoints should not be placed in the same locations as signals, then it seems meaningful to me for OpenTTD to consider waypoints as extensions to signals.
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't believe that this is true
09:15<Tekky>glx: Thanks, I will read the svn commit notes.
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>look at all the "i want a one-way signal here that is not a safe stopping location"
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>same thing will happen with waypoints
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09:17<Tekky>Hmmmm, yes, maybe you are right.
09:19<Tekky>Rubidium: Maybe it would be best to introduce an additional bit in the map array which tells the pathfinder whether a signal is named or not. That way, the pathfinder does not have to make an expensive hash table lookup for every signal.
09:19<@Rubidium>still it's more work than for stations
09:21<@Rubidium>assuming HasBit(_m[tile].mX, Y) is as expensive as _m[tile].mX == Y
09:22<Tekky>I guess I should first study the source code about how the pathfinder handles multi-platform stations, since what I want to do is somewhat similar. Anyway, thanks for your advice, Rubidium.
09:23<@Rubidium>actually, for stations you only need to do IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) && _m[tile].mX == Y, for signals you need to do IsTileType(tile, MP_RAIL) && IsRailSubtype(tile, SIGNALLED_RAIL) && HasBit(_m[tile].mX, Y) to even know whether it might happen
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09:31<Lazesharp>does the dedicated server pause when there's no one connected? or does it just keep running in the background?
09:31<Tekky>Eddi|zuHause: What is the reason people want to place one-way signals in non-safe waiting locations? Is it to mark track as one-way? Or are there also other reasons?
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09:32<Eddi|zuHause>Tekky: big station entrances where trains choose paths that block to many other paths
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>to say "use this part of the junction for incoming trains only"
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09:32<Tekky>Eddi: So to mark track as one-way?
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>my suggestion there is usually to completely separate one-way and signal markers
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09:36<Tekky>Eddi: Yes, I pointed out to michi_cc during development of YAPP that there are situations where non-signal "one-way signs" would be useful. However, since I encountered such a situation only one single time, I told him that in my opinion, it may not be worth implementing them.
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>you should test such things with more than your own playing style :p
09:38<Tekky>Hehe :)
09:42<Tekky>Eddi: I'm afraid the map would get too cluttered if it were necessary to place a one-way sign in addition to a signal. However, I would be in favor of the possibility of adding non-signal one-way signs.
09:44<+michi_cc>If you check the beginnings of YAPP you'll find that at first there actually was a two-way signal and a one way marker. Then people complained about needing to place two signals everywhere, thus the one-way signal was born.
09:45<Tekky>Yes, I remember that.
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09:46<Tekky>YAPP really has improved OpenTTD, now that is in trunk. Thanks again for your valuable work, michi_cc :)
09:49<Tekky>Does anyone have an idea about whether most users now use block or path signals?
09:50<frosch123>likely most users use no signals at all...
09:51<Tekky>Ah, hehe, yes, I did not think about that. :)
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10:01<SirSquid1ess>Tekky: as a rather casual openTTD player myself, as soon as I noticed these new path signal thingies, I went to find out wtf they were, and immediately started using them probably too much.
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10:06<Tekky>SirSquidness: I see no reason to use the old signals anymore, because the new path signals can do everything the old signals can do, only better. That is, unless you do exotic things like priority lines with pre-signals.
10:06<SirSquidness>I dont' see much point using path signals for non-intersections bits
10:07<SirSquidness>I imagine path signals would have increased resource usage over block signals
10:07<SirSquidness>not that it really matters with today's PCs
10:07<SirSquidness>but that's beside the point :p
10:08*Alberth uses plain block signals for all single line stretches and PBS for junctions and stations.
10:09<SirSquidness>PBS are pure awesome.
10:10<Alberth>Yesterday I wanted to show how to setup block signals around a station. I couldn't remember how, I had to look it up and do an experiment :p
10:11<+michi_cc>The performance impact of PBS signals on straight lines is actually very minor as reservation up to next first signal/junction can be done without calling the pathfinder at all
10:11<SirSquidness>lol, smooth.
10:11<SirSquidness>ah, thanks for the clarification michi_cc - I now do not feel any guilt in just usign PBS for straight lines :P
10:12<Alberth>michi_cc: why is it allowed to pass a PBS signal in reverse direction? I don't understand why that would be useful.
10:13<SirSquidness>going backwards through it gives a path finding penalty
10:13<SirSquidness>so one use for it I've done is de-prioritise lanes of a station by putting backwards signlas.
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10:13<Alberth>and wreaks havoc on other trains as it messes up a carefully planned idea of train directions ;)
10:14<SirSquidness>no it doesn't?
10:14<SirSquidness>there's both a one-way-only PBS and a you-can-pass-through-theback-of-me signal
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10:14<Alberth>michi_cc: yes, but why not have a 2-way signal for that?
10:15<SirSquidness>I don't see anywhere in that picture where a two directional PBS signal would be useful
10:15<Alberth>SirSquidness: if trains come from both directions
10:15<SirSquidness>if you had it at the station entrance/exit, the trains would enter in to teh cross bits, blocking up the intersection
10:16<Alberth>no, behind a signal is not a safe stopping position
10:16<SirSquidness>I know
10:16<SirSquidness>I get the feeling I misinterpreted what you meant then.
10:18<Alberth>it is also perfectly possible I use the wrong signals at the wrong place, I do more coding than playing :)
10:18<+michi_cc>Alberth: a two-way pbs signal (two-sided would probably be the better word) does not make sense. two tracks opposite each other can't be a safe waiting point at the same time
10:19<Alberth>hmm, yes. good point.
10:19<SirSquidness>michi_cc knows what he/she's talking about
10:19<SirSquidness>yay for concise answers :P
10:19<+michi_cc>there are some other nifty things you can do with yapp signals like
10:19<Alberth>being the author of current PBS, I have no doubt about that
10:20<+michi_cc>bidirectional single-track that has priority for trains going in the same direction as the train currently on the single track stretch
10:20<Alberth>(michi_cc being the author, not me)
10:22<Alberth>yeah, nice. I would never have figured out such constructs. Then again, my games are very simple. Not many trains or big stations
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10:24<SirSquidness>I'm qutie the opposite, Alberth - I hate the initial phase where it's small networks, and love the gigantic stage where you've got one huge concentrated area where almost every train passes through
10:24<SirSquidness>and it's a nightmare to make work efficiently
10:25<Alberth>how do you get to that point? you simply start connecting industries at random?
10:25<Alberth>I do have a kind of central 'nervous' system where I hook up all industries, but it never gets crowded
10:25<Alberth>maybe I don't play enough, or distribute the trains too much
10:26<Alberth>s/play/play long/
10:33<SirSquidness>I often try and get as many crates/month through a single factory as possible
10:33<SirSquidness>My record without cheating is ~13k
10:34*SirSquidness uploads one of his saves
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10:39<Eddi|zuHause>so... i think i managed to balance my track lengths
10:40<SirSquidness>myself and a mate spent maybe 10-15 hours expanding that. was epic fun.
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>this is what the station is supposed to look like:
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>only i don't have the proper track geometry library for the tracks i own
10:40<SirSquidness>Eddi|zuHause: making a scale model railroad?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, H0
10:41*SirSquidness woudl love pics when you're done
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>the tracks listed in the picture would cost 200€
10:42<SirSquidness>it's not a cheap hobby
10:42<Alberth>SirSquidness: looks great!!
10:42<SirSquidness>I assume you looked down where the big hub around the factory is?
10:42<SirSquidness>(the HQ is right next to it)
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10:43<Alberth>yeah, it's a bit crowded there :)
10:43<Alberth>luckily, we don't measure air pollution in OpenTTD :)
10:43<SirSquidness>aaand... if you have a look at Chuhattan Valley, you'll see a nice use of backwards PBS
10:44<SirSquidness>the ironic thing is..we spent almost no time making the aircraft network, yet it almost makes the same around as the rail network
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10:50<Alberth>SirSquidness: you should set the airplane speed to 1/4 (same as in original ttd), that gives a better balance
10:50<SirSquidness>By the time we bothered with aircraft, we were making enough money to not worry about money
10:50<SirSquidness>so it didn't really matter :p
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10:56<+Patrick`>13k crates of goods a month?
10:56<+Patrick`>I think I can best that, one sec
10:56<TrueBrain>how big is yours?
10:57<SirSquidness>It wouldn't be hard to beat it I was to start on another factory with only maglev and vast amounts of money now
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>|<--- about this -->|
10:57<SirSquidness>that 13k uses mostly elec trains to get it's frieght in/out
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10:57<+Patrick`>but that's all from a single section of ore mines
10:57<+Patrick`>feeding one steel plant
10:58<+Patrick`>17k steel a month
10:58<+Patrick`>10 tracks in each direction :D
10:58<+Patrick`>I was gonna make it bigger
10:58<Alberth>now you have an excuse :p
10:58<+Patrick`>I have 500 ore trains
10:58<+Patrick`>for one station
10:59<+Patrick`>it was not fun to make
10:59<TrueBrain>then why did you do it?
11:00<+Patrick`>it was quite fun, and education, but I wouldn't do it again
11:00<+Patrick`>I actually had to change the ottd loading algorithm
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11:29<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16873 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Terraform window and scenario landscape editing window switched to nested widgets.
11:39<yorick>Alberth: if the widgets are not numbered continuously, it crashes in Window::RaiseButtons()
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11:53<yorick>alberth: <-- convert newgrf window to nested widgets ;)
11:56<Ammler>are there still people using the original newgrf gui?
11:57<yorick>Ammler: the new thing needs to be converted to nested widgets
11:57<Ammler>I meant something else, but nvm. :-)
11:58<yorick>Ammler: no I want to know
11:59<Ammler>well, I use the newgrf gui from forums whenever possible.
11:59<Ammler>(in pm's patch pack)
12:01<frosch123>so, am is using pm's patch pack
12:02<planetmaker>frosch123: the patch "pack" is quite simple currently: the newgrf gui patch and the improved station build Gui patch
12:02<planetmaker>nothing more :-)
12:02<planetmaker>but both is IMO too handy for playing to leave it out :-)
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12:07<@Rubidium>oh, those unfinished patches :)
12:08<yorick>what's unfinished?
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12:09*yorick does not expect answer
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12:48<Alberth>yorick: line 34 is wrong, current_y is a length not a position; add pos_y
12:48<Alberth>oh, sorry, it is correct
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i'm sure everybody you ask will say that they are "well tested" :p
12:49<yorick>just one bug, InitNested needs to go before the resize.step_height
12:52<Alberth>Line 45 seems a good way to make a fragile program.
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12:54<Eddi|zuHause>that's good news... because you can cut another two letters and you have an agile program
12:54<yorick>Alberth: it was already in :)
12:55<yorick>blame the grf preset patch baker
12:55<Alberth>that doesn't it alright imho.
12:55<Alberth>as for resize.step_height, that is controlled from the tree, and computed from the resize steps
12:56<yorick>but it's put to 0
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12:56<Alberth>then something doesn't resize along.
12:56<yorick>then it's broken
12:57<Alberth>for a horizontal container to resize vertically, all it children must allow vertical resize
12:57<PeterT>in future versions, will there be support for loading a scenario in game by rcon?
12:57<Alberth>and viece versa for a vertical container.
12:57<yorick>but it does resize when setting that step height to 14
12:57<yorick>PeterT: rename it to sav
12:57<PeterT>yorick: NO
12:57<yorick>PeterT: YES
12:57<PeterT>i would have to rename all my scenarios
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: write a patch
12:58<PeterT>i dont know how to write a patch
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, you open an editor
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>and modify the appropriate lines
12:58<yorick>PeterT: write a script, write a patch, go to and add a feature request that will never be done
12:58<PeterT>which would the apropriate lines?
12:58<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I thought you'd say 'and write a diff' :D
12:58<yorick>PeterT: try looking
12:59<Ammler>loading scenario is already possible, isn't?
12:59<PeterT>with rcon, no
12:59<PeterT>in multiplayer games, no
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well, that would be a slight step too absurd :p
12:59<Alberth>PeterT: those lines of the code that make the program do what you want it to do
12:59<Ammler>did you try?
13:00<Alberth>how often?
13:00<yorick>Ammler: don't make it, he'll ask for more ;)
13:00<Ammler>you can load now the tmp file so why not .scn?
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: he'll ask for more anyway :p
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13:01<yorick>Eddi: because someone will do it anyways
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13:01*yorick might be a bit responsible
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes... this someone guy is to blame for everything...
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>he should get a life or something...
13:02<PeterT>Alberth: I tried alot
13:02<PeterT>rcon password "ls
13:02<PeterT>shows me the scenarios (if the game was loaded by scenario)
13:02<PeterT>then i tried
13:03<PeterT>rcon password load 1
13:03*yorick thinks about the ironic fact that the one with 49829 lines on #openttd
13:03<yorick>at #2
13:03<PeterT>it loaded the #1 savegame
13:03<yorick>right next to peter1138
13:03<Alberth>PeterT: I meant modifying the source code
13:03<Ammler>PeterT: try to name the explicit scenario with name
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13:04<yorick>load "scenname.scn"
13:05<PeterT>tried that too (Yexo)
13:05<PeterT>i have a forum post on this whole thing
13:05<PeterT>he said they need to intergrate it
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>he has a forum post, and he will use it!!1!
13:05<yorick>Eddi: einz?
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13:06<Eddi|zuHause>it's difficult to write incorrectly :p
13:06<Ammler>onyl for Germans :-)
13:06<PeterT>i dont know how to code, so i wouldnt know what to edit
13:06<Ammler>even we can't do that.
13:06<KenjiE20>I managed :)
13:07<KenjiE20>by thinking
13:07<yorick>yes, try thinking
13:07<yorick>I can recommend that
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>the code is self explaining
13:07<Ammler>thinking and openttd on same time?
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>just search for a part that says both "rcon" and "load"
13:07<KenjiE20>I know sod all C++ but by reading and going 'hmm' I could figure out what I needed
13:08<PeterT>ok, rcon load
13:08<Ammler>KenjiE20: you needed to patch the source?
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>and then search for another part that says "load" and "scenario"
13:08<+glx>and filenames are explicit too
13:08*yorick started by hammering cluelessly
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>and figure out what the difference is
13:08<KenjiE20>Ammler: my split old vehicle news messages patch thing
13:08<PeterT>once i found them, what then?
13:09<PeterT>i have no idea what to do to them
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, it'll not come to you without looking
13:10<yorick>PeterT: try thinking
13:10<PeterT>ok, i might as well dowload the source code now
13:10<KenjiE20>that would help
13:11<yorick>does downloading still work?
13:11<Alberth>PeterT: didn't you compile the code already?
13:12<Alberth>PeterT: next step is to learn C++
13:12<yorick>but start with C
13:12<Akoz>I'd suggest starting with assembly
13:12<yorick>or better, start with assembly
13:12<yorick>Akoz :(
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest to start with basic expressions and control flow
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>everything else comes with reading the code
13:13<yorick>Akoz: I can not imaginine him understanding basic expressions and control flow
13:13<KenjiE20>punch cards!
13:13<Akoz>maybe if he makes his own operating system first he'll more easily understand how best to write c++ code
13:13<PeterT>i just want to load scenarios
13:13<PeterT>i need to do this later
13:14<yorick>Akoz: he first needs to know assembly to interface with the BIOS
13:14<PeterT>i have to restore my computer now :(
13:14<Akoz>oh. right
13:14<Akoz>my bad
13:14<yorick>Akoz: then he needs to make a compiler in assembly
13:14<PeterT>or get ready
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: no, he can do that in machine code
13:14<yorick>so then he understands C
13:14<yorick>and then he can write a C++ compiler in C
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>he should start with programming a Z3
13:15<yorick>he should start with programming butterflies!
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>and then build transistor-based computers
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes. we know
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>actually, we did once program by generating all possible universes, and then discarding the ones that did not contain the desired program
13:20<TrueBrain>always a good method
13:20<yorick>what did you do with the ones that did not contain the desired reality?
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>the same thing you do with all programs that you do not need...
13:24<yorick>so that explains :)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>what a silly question...
13:24<yorick>you are evil :-)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's like asking "what happened to the universe from 2 seconds ago?"
13:24<TrueBrain>it still there, just in an alternative reality :p
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>i am not evil... i am just pragmatic
13:25<yorick>you accept realities in which people believe in things that aren't there :)
13:25<yorick>and you choose those
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13:26<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: because it needs O2
13:27<LadyHawk>you're not the first to respond to my quit message
13:27<LadyHawk>you do make the most sense out of the answers i got though
13:27<yorick>LadyHaw: the same way squirrels stick to trees
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's why glue "dries" faster when you blow at it
13:27<yorick>everyone knows
13:27<TrueBrain>I couldn't find a clever reply, so I thought the real answer would be better ;)
13:27<LadyHawk>someone said the inside of the bottle is covered with a nonstick layer or something.. but that doesn't explain why the glue doesn't dry up in there
13:27<LadyHawk>i cant even remember the other one
13:28<yorick>LadyHawk: the squirrel one?
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's in the log files
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>why would you need to remember it?
13:29<LadyHawk>i'm spread over 4 networks, too many logs to search
13:29<TrueBrain>you are spread? Haha! That sounds horrible :p
13:30<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what were you mumbling about?
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the "unfinished" patches
13:30<PeterT>is mingw still the easiest way to compile and patch?
13:30<yorick>it didn't change much in 2 days
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: all people will tell you that they are "well tested"
13:30<PeterT>yorick: 2days?
13:31<yorick>yes 2 days
13:31<PeterT>why 2 days?
13:31<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: lies, I've more than once showns patches saying the were "not tested"
13:31<PeterT>was that the last time i mentioned it?
13:31<yorick>because that's the last time you asked
13:31<KenjiE20>yorick: obviously he's a goldfish
13:31<KenjiE20>which would explain a lot
13:31<yorick>KenjiE20: goldfish can remember for more than 2 days
13:32<KenjiE20>oh new research? I thought it was like 5 mins?
13:32<yorick>old research
13:32<TrueBrain>KenjiE20: only in the bullshit world :)
13:32<TrueBrain>to make people feel at ease because you put them in a small bowl :p
13:32<KenjiE20>meh, I never bothered to verify said claim
13:32<yorick>"More recent research by the School of Psychology at the University of Plymouth in 2003[citation needed] demonstrated that goldfish have a memory-span of at least three months and can distinguish between different shapes, colours and sounds."
13:33<yorick>wikipedia :)
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of the Koi in the pond of my friend
13:33<TrueBrain>KenjiE20: never seen the Mythbusters episode? :p
13:33<yorick>that too
13:33<yorick>the one with the fish and the maze
13:33<TrueBrain>not that it is any proof ... :p
13:33*KenjiE20 doesn't watch Mythbusters
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>when you walk past the pond without giving him food, he will sprinkle water on you
13:33<yorick>YOU WHAT
13:34<KenjiE20>you heard me
13:35<yorick>the poor thing
13:35<yorick>let me lock you in a basement with discovery channel and food
13:35<KenjiE20>ok, I've 'seen' a couple, never hooked me
13:36-!-PeterT [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:36<yorick>ooh :
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: everyone can write everything at wikipedia and put a [citation needed] at it...
13:37-!-xenol [] has joined #openttd
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>since when do i click random links in a weird irc channel?
13:38<yorick>since they are from google
13:38<yorick>and you can blame me
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes. i'll do that...
13:38<@Rubidium>since you complained about there being spaces in URLs?
13:38*TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause privileges to use @kick ;)
13:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r16874 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Change: Give the number behind free wagon chains in depots the same meaning as for trains.
13:38<xenol>hello. i am curious. afaik when owning 75% of other companies, you should be able to control them. but whenever i own 75% of company, i simply can't. afaik it was possible in ttd. (talking about single player)
13:39<yorick>no, you need to own 100%
13:39<xenol>then i retake it
13:39<yorick>and if you can't, blame multiplayer
13:39<xenol>and it becomes part of my own company
13:39<@Rubidium>xenol: ttd != ttdpatch
13:39<Alberth>xenol: maybe in original ttd? not in ttdx afaik
13:40<@Rubidium>Alberth: original ttd == ttdx == ttdlx or whatever other acronym they used
13:40<xenol>Rubidium: Alberth i am not sure in which i don't remember :> though i know about that functionality. is it possible in openttd?
13:41<Alberth>Hmm, original tt I meant.
13:41<Alberth>xenol: only if you take over 100%
13:41<@Rubidium>Alberth: ttd can be considered as a superset of tto, most feature wise
13:41<@Rubidium>xenol: use the change company cheat
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: tto did not have shares
13:42<xenol>Rubidium: i am not a cheater >< but thanks
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: except for the jinty/chippie class ;)
13:43<Alberth>I played a lot of ttdx, and did not see the feature. If it is also not in tto, then ttdpatch would be the only version supporting it.
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>in tto you could only buy out companies if they went bankrupt
13:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I know it is not a strict superset in the mathematical sense, but as rule of the thumb: if it ain't in TTD, it wasn't in TTO either holds, especially for features that aren't in TTD but are in TTDP
13:44<xenol>i am not sure, but i remember than i owe 75% and i could switch from my company to the other. i could do everything just like in mine. mine was making money and i was playing other one :)
13:44<yorick>was it miniin?
13:45-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
13:45<xenol>are you asking me?
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>who else would know what version you played?
13:45<PeterT>after downloading the source, do i have to compile it?
13:45<PeterT>then edit it
13:45<yorick>PeterT: try thinking?
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16875 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 46 changes by EraserKing, Gavin
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 18 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by nsergiy
13:45<KenjiE20>yorick: lol
13:46<PeterT>how would i know?
13:46<KenjiE20>you like that phrase huh?
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>but you should compile it just that you know that it works
13:46<xenol>yorick: as i said, i don't remember which version i played, it was very long time ago
13:46<yorick>compiling = source code > something playable
13:46<TrueBrain>lol, yorick who says that, this is amuzing :)
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>if it does not compile later, you know it was something you did
13:46<DaleStan>xenol: That is a TTDPatch feature.
13:46<KenjiE20>TB: that was me a little while ago
13:46<yorick>TrueBrain: yes, he even annoys me :)
13:46<TrueBrain>yorick: that is even more amuzing :)
13:46<xenol>DaleStan: ah, thanks. i guess it ain't in openttd? :XD
13:47<PeterT>i will compile
13:48<TrueBrain>what ever
13:50<PeterT>if a patch at is not rejected, does that mean that it will be in a trunk at some time?
13:50-!-xenol [] has left #openttd []
13:51<yorick>it means that it is yet to be rejected
13:51<yorick>or accepted
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>hehe... cool... police arrests a "timetraveller" that wanted to fuel his car "Birgit" [which he talks to] with water (because red bull was too expensive)
13:51<KenjiE20>or even looked at :)
13:52<PeterT>but that ones that are already 100% or 50% are accepted?
13:52<+glx>note: we don't read the wiki ;)
13:52<PeterT>or even 10%
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13:53<yorick>PeterT: does it say that anywhere>
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: the only place where a patch can be accepted or rejected is the bug tracker
13:53<KenjiE20>Eddi; Riot police stormed a man's 30th birthday barbecue for 15 guests because it was advertised as an "all-night" party on Facebook. <-- hehe
13:53<PeterT>well, my msys failed
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i read that, too ;)
13:54<PeterT>had to add to this computer, cannot find zlib or png
13:54<yorick>my christal sphere doesn't know what happened
13:54<KenjiE20>I thought that was brilliant
13:54<yorick>I think you might not have installed zlib or png
13:54<+glx>the easiest setup is msvc express
13:55<PeterT>ingame load scenario
13:55<PeterT>should work with rcon too
13:55<yorick>but then, thinking should be left to horses, in dutch, they have much bigger heads
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>KenjiE20: britain is on the best way to become a rutheless police state...
13:55<KenjiE20>indeed :(
13:55<yorick>PeterT: would it?
13:56<PeterT>it should
13:56<yorick>have you looked at other rcon commands?
13:56<+glx>install msvc, install august 2007 DX SDK, install latest windows SDK (6.1), extract openttd-useful somewhere, add paths to that somewhere to msvc
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>now they want to make tony blair EU president...
13:56<yorick>are they defined there?
13:56<TrueBrain>yorick: in the magic world, it automaticly works for rcon too
13:56<TrueBrain>you should understand that by now :)
13:56<TrueBrain>it works like this: insert feature A at place Z, and automaticly feature B, C, and D are inserted in secret place S
13:56<yorick>TrueBain: I think that patch would in the best case do nothing
13:57<TrueBrain>it is like the magic mirror of programming
13:57<TrueBrain>an unversal law
13:57<TrueBrain>how else did we program all those functions .. not one by one I hope!
13:57<yorick>PeterT: did you learn C++ yet?
13:57<yorick>did you have a look at the code yet?
13:57<yorick>did you do your homework yet?
13:57<PeterT>you cant just C++, i will look, yes
13:57<PeterT>*cant just learn
13:57<PeterT>takes time
13:57<yorick>yes you can
13:58<yorick>no it doesn't
13:58<PeterT>you guys make it seem like its easy
13:58<yorick>and it is
13:58<PeterT>then make me a patch
13:58<TrueBrain>yorick: you are my new favorite person in this IRC :) (and this time without sarcasm :))
13:58<KenjiE20>I just C++'d
13:58<yorick>TrueBrain :)
13:58<PeterT>is this ok:
13:58<yorick>how should we know?
13:58<TrueBrain>the idea alone
13:59<PeterT>yorick: know by clicking the link
13:59<PeterT>and telling me if thats a good start
13:59<yorick>PeterT: why would I click your link
14:00<PeterT>Why not
14:01<yorick>because it might be dangerous, and I would have to do something for it
14:02<yorick>and clicking the link wouldn't do anything
14:02<PeterT>its not dangerous, its the results of a google of "C++"
14:02<KenjiE20>says you
14:03<PeterT>and i bet you've already clicked on it, and you are just annoying me
14:03<yorick>I haven't clicked on it
14:03<PeterT>says you
14:03<yorick>again: clicking wouldn't do anything
14:03<LadyHawk>stop argueing about a bloody c++ tutorial already!
14:03<KenjiE20>click,click,clickclickclick, nope nothing happening
14:03<yorick>I'm running irssi and my terminal does not magically find links and makes them clickable
14:03<LadyHawk>what's the fucking point!
14:05<yorick>the results of a google of "C++" could be dangerous
14:05<yorick>google could be a conspiracy
14:05<Akoz>I still think assembly would be the way to go
14:05<PeterT>what does this mean? "ines beginning with a hash sign (#) are directives for the preprocessor. "
14:05<yorick>exactly that
14:05<PeterT>i dont understand
14:05<yorick>but with an l in front
14:06<Akoz>PeterT, something for the road:
14:06<PeterT>what are directives for the preprocessor
14:06<LadyHawk>something that runs before it 'processes' the code?
14:06<LadyHawk>just a guess like........... i dont know c++ but it would make sense
14:06*LadyHawk bangs her head on her desk and alt+tabs out
14:07-!-thisismynick [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
14:07<yorick>oh, it's a her
14:07<PeterT>well, "Lady"hawk
14:08<yorick>how many hers have you seen on irc?
14:08<PeterT>is there a reason the there are "{" between lines?
14:08-!-KenjiE20 is now known as LadyKenjiE20
14:08<LadyKenjiE20>but I'm not!
14:08-!-LadyKenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20
14:08<yorick>PeterT: probably
14:08<PeterT>it is?
14:08<TrueBrain>KenjiE20: no, I have seen that picture of you in a dress .. not a pretty sight
14:09<TrueBrain>PeterT: I tell you once again: get a good book (from a store) about C++, and stop asking us all those questions about C++. This is an OpenTTD channel. Not: learn me C++ because I am too darn lezy channel.
14:09<yorick>PeterT: could it be that it is explained later on?
14:09<KenjiE20>>_< damn you google!!!!
14:09<TrueBrain>maybe there is some channel on tihs IRC, but this channel is not that
14:09<Akoz>go to efnet
14:09<Akoz>and to #c++
14:09<welshdragon>yorick: ypu've proved once again how silly you are
14:09<PeterT>i have joined #c++
14:10<Akoz>./server -m
14:10<Akoz>sorry.. no
14:10<Akoz>would be better
14:10<Akoz>without the .
14:10<KenjiE20>or the o
14:10<TrueBrain>with the i instead of the o
14:10<yorick>PeterT: also, I'm not your "Learn me C++ because I am too darn lezy channel"
14:10<Akoz>right. with the i
14:10-!-PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:10<TrueBrain>Akoz: nice job, tnx :)
14:10<TrueBrain>@voice Akoz
14:10-!-mode/#openttd [+v Akoz] by DorpsGek
14:10-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
14:10<yorick>TrueBrain: devoice him again ;)
14:11<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
14:11<PeterT>stop please
14:11<PeterT>i will get a book then
14:11<KenjiE20>stop what?
14:11<yorick>I guess he asked in efnet
14:11<yorick>OR DIDNT YOU
14:12<yorick>"I want to learn C++, can anyone teach?" "NO." "bye :("
14:12*welshdragon kicks yorick (for the hell of it)
14:12<KenjiE20>food time
14:13<TrueBrain>@kick welshdragon yorick is under my protection; don't try that again
14:13-!-welshdragon was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [yorick is under my protection; don't try that again]
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14:13<welshdragon>TrueBrain: i felt that
14:13<yorick>:) :)
14:13<welshdragon>also, i was joking
14:13<TrueBrain>like I was all that serious :)
14:14<yorick>TrueBrain kicks for fun, you should know :D
14:14<welshdragon>i do too
14:14<TrueBrain>no, yorick, that you only know ;) :p
14:14<LadyHawk>thanks to 'auto rejoin on kick', kicks are never serious
14:14<PeterT>he kicks for fuN?
14:14<TrueBrain> <- my new opening line .. will it work?
14:15<yorick>kick count 55 :)
14:15<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: reason I do a kickban when I am serious :)
14:15<PeterT>i recall a certain TrueBrain "@kban 1000 do it yourself"
14:15<TrueBrain>PeterT: and yet you didn't learn ...
14:15<TrueBrain>makes me sad ...
14:15*LadyHawk remembers
14:15<welshdragon>TrueBrain: i can see we share a likeness for getting kicks out of kicking innocent people
14:16<TrueBrain>welshdragon: with the only difference, I can do real kicks :) MWHAHAHHAHA
14:16*TrueBrain goes evil
14:16<welshdragon>TrueBrain: so can i
14:16<yorick>you already were
14:16<TrueBrain>why is it so much easier to be evil and hated, than to be good and loved?
14:16*welshdragon is an operator in #ukbus
14:16*yorick is not in #ukbus anymore
14:17<LadyHawk>[18/7][19:16:08] <TrueBrain> why is it so much easier to be evil and hated, than to be good and loved?
14:17*PeterT requested a bus to be in #ukbus
14:17<LadyHawk>simple answer, you need tits to be good and loved
14:17<TrueBrain>good point
14:17<TrueBrain>explains why my ex was evil
14:17<yorick>heh, fat people!
14:17<TrueBrain>(lol, that was below the belt I guess)
14:17<yorick>food time!
14:17-!-Rubidium [] has left #openttd [previous experiences have shown that this works even better than an ignore list]
14:17<+Akoz>I love this channel
14:18<welshdragon>yorick: i know, he's on a 2 warnings then kick/ban now
14:18<welshdragon>plus he no longer has ops
14:18<PeterT>Akoz: i was wondering, what dose GPL have to do with posting a binary?
14:19<welshdragon>also: lol @ rubidium :D
14:19<+Akoz>you'll need to ask DaleStan about that p
14:20<PeterT>because ive seen others post binaries
14:20<PeterT>DaleStan: why can't akoz post a binary?
14:21<PeterT>DaleStan: to the city builder patch
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14:22<PeterT>ok, i need to go
14:22-!-PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:22<TrueBrain>WHOHO! FREEDOM!
14:22<TrueBrain>so, now some reality ... who is in for a game of scrabble?
14:22<+Akoz>did you make an ottd patch to play scrabble with?
14:23<TrueBrain>hmm... there is an idea :)
14:23<+Akoz>let me know when its done :)¨
14:23<TrueBrain>its done
14:24<+Akoz>gif patch!
14:24<TrueBrain>but ... how do I compile it?
14:24<TrueBrain>I tried mingw, and it keeps on giving me this error: unknown directory 'openttd'
14:24<TrueBrain>I don't udnerstand
14:24<TrueBrain>can you teach me C++?
14:24<TrueBrain>@kick TrueBrain go f*** yourself or something
14:24-!-TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [go f*** yourself or something]
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14:24*TrueBrain feels so much better now
14:25<+Akoz>you know there are clinics for that sort of things
14:25<TrueBrain>does it involve sex?
14:25*welshdragon thinks TrueBrain is mad
14:25<TrueBrain>welshdragon: join the club
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>so what?
14:25<welshdragon>and not all clinics are sex orientated
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>every sane person i ever met was mad...
14:27<TrueBrain> <- /me likes
14:28<+Akoz>nice site
14:28<+Akoz> <- :p
14:29<TrueBrain>hahahaa :)
14:29<TrueBrain>oh, what a boring day
14:29<TrueBrain>maybe I should do something useful
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, read more xkcd :p
14:32<TrueBrain>failblog is more fun :)
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14:36<TrueBrain>welcome back R0b0t1
14:38-!-Zahl [~Zahl@] has joined #openttd
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>did you know that the german word "Arbeit" and the russian word "robot" have the same etymological root?
14:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16876 /trunk/src/ (station.cpp station_base.h station_type.h waypoint.h): -Codechange: add helper functions to cast to Station/Waypoint with some extra checks.
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>(originally meaning something like "slave", later taking the meaning of "work")
14:42<TrueBrain>sounds reasonable :p
14:43<+Akoz> ftw
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>even funnier, the french word for "work": "travail" has originally meant "torture" :p
14:55<JFBelugas>yeah ... they are so much related...
14:56<TrueBrain>I can see that, yes
14:56<JFBelugas>and the origin of the word "work" in english is "yurk"
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>they explained it on karambolage ;)
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15:11<JFBelugas>configured network for my dad
15:12<JFBelugas>now, expalin him it all
15:12<JFBelugas>VERY fun..
15:12<JFBelugas>bye bye
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15:52<+glx><Eddi|zuHause> they explained it on karambolage ;) <-- that's on ARTE IIRC
15:53<+glx>I like the little quizz at the end "where was this filmed ?"
15:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16877 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use Subsidy::IsAwarded() instead of testing subsidy's age
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16:23<yorick>TrueBrain :)
16:25<yorick>you should try FML if you like failblog :)
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16:38<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:47<+Akoz>yorick: I hope these are made up..
16:47<yorick>Akoz: I guess most are
16:47<+Akoz>"Today, I handed my PhD dissertation, which I have spent the past year researching and writing full-time. Last night, my roommate set an autocorrect on Word that changed "neither" to "nigger." I didn't notice until after I handed it in. My professor is black. FML"
16:47<+Akoz>lal that would so suck :p
16:48-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
16:50<+Akoz>the rest are mostly about sex and blowjobs
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18:42<+glx>that's a funny translation
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>where's the japanese expert?
18:43<Eddi|zuHause> for some more strange pictures
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18:46<+glx>hmm sniper suit in metro should be scary
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>picdump-26 is cool, too ;)
18:54<+glx>oh the crazy guy trying to steal the gun
18:56<+glx>well indeed picdump-26 is weird
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19:01<_ln>@seen Bjarni
19:01<@DorpsGek>_ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Bjarni> eventually
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>you do that like every week...
19:07<_ln>not this week and last week as i was in denmark myself, offline.
19:07<+Akoz>has this bug been fixed in rc1: When you build a station(a), delete the station, ctrl+build a second station (b) at the same tile and select to make it a new one, and then ctrl+click somewhere near it to expand it you get the name of the first station (a) you built in that list.
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19:08<+Akoz>(and not the name of station b)
19:08<+Akoz>anyone knows? O_o
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19:10<+Akoz>oh well. I'll add it
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>i have not heard of this bug before
19:11<+Akoz>I just found it
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19:12<+Akoz>Im good at finding bugs.. :)
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20:39<`Fuco``>is there any way to disable trains turning around when the path is blocked? this is super annoying when train waiting on PBS signal turns around and is still saying "waiting for free path"... and so far it never turned back to the original direction
20:39<`Fuco``>so they just sit there blocking the entire line
20:41<`Fuco``>i use reversed PBS as a penalty, and they turn around on the very same spot, they actually have a "right oriented" signal in the way. That might be the problem.
20:41<`Fuco``>If so there should be introduced some other "penalty" for pathfinder, so this can be avoided
20:42<`Fuco``>(..penalty, and IF they...)
20:43<Coco-Banana-Man>try searching for "wait_oneway_signal" (or also for "wait_twoway_signal", if you want it on two-way-signals too!) and replace the number by 255
20:43<Coco-Banana-Man>this should work IIRC
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20:45<Coco-Banana-Man>on openttd.cfg of course... ^^
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20:48<`Fuco``>thanks ill try
20:48<Coco-Banana-Man>ok, got to go to bed now.
20:48<Coco-Banana-Man>Good night!
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 19 00:00:43 2009