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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-21

---Logopened Tue Jul 21 00:00:46 2009
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00:39<mib_fz8rlsnh>hi
00:39<mib_fz8rlsnh>is anyone on
00:39<mib_fz8rlsnh>noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo there no one here too i have gone to 20 irc channels and no one was on in any of them
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02:33<planetmaker>Is there a reason to NOT use company colours when drawing houses?
02:33<planetmaker>and good morning #openttd :-)
02:33<Noldo>morning!
02:33<planetmaker>:-)
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06:18<Dartteri>oh yes, and why I joined...
06:19<Dartteri>I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special,
06:19<Dartteri> where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal
06:19<Dartteri> version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
06:19<Dartteri>oops, sorry for bad lining
06:19<Dartteri> I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special, where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
06:20<Alberth>no, there is a daytime length patch in the forums that you seem to be using
06:21<Dartteri>thanks, that's the keyword. I'll start looking.
06:26-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514c420a.l3.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:27*TrueBrain waves good morning
06:28*Alberth waves back
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06:31<Ammler>hehe, good after noon
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06:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16895 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Build dock window uses nested widget tree.
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06:55<TrueBrain>sjoep sjoep
06:55<Dartteri>Alberth, thank you, found it.
06:56<Alberth>oke, have fun with it
06:58<Dartteri>daylength 10, income over $ 10 mil in the end of first "year"
06:58<Ammler>Terken is trying to convert daylength patch to grfs, quite silly, but maybe an alternative for you.
06:58<Ammler>something like "milenium converstion"
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06:59<Dartteri>im not much of a coder
07:01<Dartteri>o, you mean to try the conversion.
07:02<Dartteri>maybe ill have a look on it
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07:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16896 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: make station spec allocation and station animation functions work for both stations and waypoints
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07:17<hadas>cauta I wanted to ask the new graphics can be downloaded via the game or have downloaded from the Internet and if teda from the Internet to download it when you where I got to give, please help me
07:17<TrueBrain>you sense no make do not
07:17<hadas>And another thing i do not know Canadian English that google: D
07:19<TrueBrain>hadas: my best guess of what you are asking: try the Online Content button in any recent release (0.7.1 if possible)
07:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16897 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use the 'generic' station spec to station allocation for waypoints too
07:22<hadas>my regards opengfx-0.1.0-alpha5 If you must download it manually or just from the game
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07:23<Alberth>either will do
07:23<Alberth>from in-game is the easiest
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07:27<hadas>so to override the automatic download to
07:29-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051184162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
07:30<Alberth>override? what do you mean?
07:31<TrueBrain>I love google translate :(
07:31<Alberth>start the game, press 'online content', select OpenGFX, click download, click ok, select OpenGFX graphics base set
07:31<Alberth>TrueBrain: I reminds me of obiwan speak :)
07:32*DJ-Burtybob wonders if people read the description of OpenGFX before download.... Espiecally to do with black boxes for undone sprites
07:32<Alberth>assume no
07:33<@SmatZ>people never read anything
07:33<@SmatZ>just search for the "OK" button
07:33<@SmatZ>if needed
07:33<@SmatZ>or "Close"
07:34<@SmatZ>how else can you explain threads like this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44276
07:34<@SmatZ>and many bugreports
07:34<@SmatZ>from people who changed GRF confing and then complained the game crashed
07:35<Ammler>:-)
07:37<DJ-Burtybob>lol
07:38<Alberth>except it is reality
07:40<DJ-Burtybob>There are bug reports that are open from 3years ago :S
07:41<Alberth>some are very difficult or very big, or both
07:41<Ammler>SmatZ: it is indeed a bit suboptimal to ship openttd with default setting to use ai's but no warning until you have already started the game.
07:42<hadas><Alberth> So to turn out new graphics and to download and complete?
07:42<Alberth>hadas: no idea what you are saying.
07:43<Alberth>did you download the OpenGFX graphics yet?
07:46<hadas>yes
07:47-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE473.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:47<Alberth>ok. Open the game options window. At the bottom you can select OpenGFX graphics. Close the window. Done!
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07:49<hadas>I have a new graphics there already but I will update when it was retrieved via the game?
07:52<hadas>is there cze?
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07:54<@SmatZ>hadas: are you using google translate?
07:54<@SmatZ>or some other automatic translation tool :)
07:54<@SmatZ>you can ask me in PM
07:54<hadas>yes
07:54<hadas>google
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08:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r16898 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Station build window uses nested widget tree.
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08:14<ddfreyne>Hi. I have a question about the web translator: is the web translator open-source? I've been working on a similar system for personal usage but abandoned it because of the massive amount of work
08:15<ddfreyne>And the reason why I started writing my own is that I haven't found any good open-source web translator apps yet
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08:18<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: we noticed that to, so we wrote our own (and did finish it :p :p)
08:18<TrueBrain>it most likely will be open sourced in the near future
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08:18<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: sweet
08:18<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: what language/framework is it written in?
08:19<TrueBrain>Python, Django
08:19<ddfreyne>ah nice
08:19<ddfreyne>I'm more of a Ruby guy but I've played with Python and Django before
08:19<TrueBrain>Ruby language sucks ass
08:19<TrueBrain>stupid Perl based syntax
08:19<TrueBrain><very long line here> if false
08:19<OwenS>Django is sweet. Just a horrible RAM hog
08:19<TrueBrain>yeah ... :'(
08:20<TrueBrain>OwenS: WT3 uses 10 MB at its peek usage
08:20<TrueBrain>so .... it really depends on your way of writing in it :p
08:20<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: well, you can write terribly ugly code in ruby, but I'm sure you can do the same in Python if you tried :)
08:21<TrueBrain>problem is that the Rails framework already uses that terribly ugly code :p
08:21<OwenS>Python has the funny X if Y else Z syntax though :p
08:21<TrueBrain>unless version > 1.0
08:21<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: i don't like rails
08:21<TrueBrain>what is wrong with 'if version <= 1.0'?
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08:22<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: yeah 'unless' isn't really necessary… sometimes it can be a bit cleaner but more often than not it's confusing
08:22<OwenS>Hmm, Django's RAM usage has decreased a lot on my server since I last checked. Perhaps it's been optimized a lot
08:22<ddfreyne>"unless !foo.nil?" -- wait, what?
08:22<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: exactly
08:22<TrueBrain>so I stopped using ruby after 20 minutes :p
08:23<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: but "do_it unless already_done" makes sense
08:23<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: no offense, but then you haven't used ruby long enough to make such judgements :)
08:23<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: I was so annoyed by those Perl-like syntaxes
08:23<TrueBrain>it made code I was trying to read so unreadable :(
08:24<ddfreyne>I started writing Python… learned it because I had to write a chat client for a proprietary chat system that had no linux client… took me a few days to learn python… and i was in love
08:24<TrueBrain>a b c d ... do you mean a(b, c, d) or a(b(c(d))), or WHAT?! :p
08:24<TrueBrain>I hate Python for its tabs ... it is so hard to see where things start and end over a long function :(
08:24<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: that is valid syntax, but ruby will warn you about that… and nobody actually writes code like that
08:24<TrueBrain>but the rest works rather well :)
08:24<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: check Rails code :p
08:25<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: try running a rails app with -w on (enable all warnings)…
08:25<@Belugas>hello
08:25<TrueBrain>howdie Belugas :)
08:25<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: somehow .. I tihnk .. I don't want to :p
08:25<+glx>morning Belugas
08:25-!-tdev [~udev@p508EC1BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
08:25<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: yup :)
08:26<DJ-Burtybob>hey Belugas
08:26<ddfreyne>hi Belugas
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08:26<@Belugas>ho Belugas
08:27<@Belugas>hue Belugas
08:27<@Belugas>... and it's only morning!
08:27<ddfreyne>saturation Belugas
08:28<@Belugas>naaaa... distorsion Belugas!
08:28<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: I usually have warnings turned on, but I turn them off when I do rails development (which is not often… I only do it for the money, heh)
08:29<TrueBrain>either way, ddfreyne, WT3.0 will be closed source for ever. But WT3 got some nice attention from various of open source projects, so I will start working on WT3.1 soon
08:29<TrueBrain>which has gettext support from the ground up ;)
08:30<DJ-Burtybob>how bout realsing WT2 under OpenSource?
08:30<ddfreyne>aw… why the decision not to make it open-source?
08:30<TrueBrain>no real reason .. just not needed :p
08:30<TrueBrain>DJ-Burtybob: WT2 is not mine, nor OpenTTDs
08:31<DJ-Burtybob>ahhh... was it off the shelf system?
08:31<TrueBrain>nope
08:33<@Belugas>it was a system made from ground up, by someone in our organization, but done in such a way that it was extremely linked to OpenTTD structure
08:33<@Belugas>plus, since it was not done with the idea of potential distribution, the "security" of it was not seriously addressed
08:34<@Belugas>whooo.... was i serious for a moment?
08:34*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
08:34*Belugas shakes off the dust of seriousness (hem... what????)
08:35*Belugas hugs tight TrueBrain and feels a pickle!
08:36<TrueBrain>yeah, sorry, my lipstick
08:36<@Belugas>:D
08:36<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: ah well… would have been nice to be able to use it, especially since I'm need for such a system (currently using a wiki, but that's much less than ideal)
08:37<TrueBrain>what translation file?
08:38<ddfreyne>would have been nice to be able to use WT3 in general, I mean…
08:39<TrueBrain>what I mean, is what you use in the backend for language files?
08:39*Belugas turns his head clockwise to fully appreciate that new representation of the three dots
08:39<TrueBrain>as wiki seems a bit weird ;)
08:39<ddfreyne>more specifically, I'm the webmaster for http://mystonline.com/ which has recently become a multi-language site… the site needs to be updated every once in a while and so the translations will need to be updated as well
08:40<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: no 'standard' format per se; just text files that are compiled into HTML pages
08:40<ddfreyne>so the wiki contents are copy-pasted (yuck) into those text files
08:40<ddfreyne>as you can see, this process could and should certainly be automated…
08:41<TrueBrain>haha
08:41<ddfreyne>but at the moment it's mostly manual labour (at least managing the translations is; compiling the site itself is not)
08:41<TrueBrain>I doubt WT3 could be of any help there :p
08:41<TrueBrain>we are going to use it for openttd.org (the website)
08:41<TrueBrain>but that goes via gettext
08:42<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: well, I see WT3 has an API which could be used to fetch the translated texts… am I right?
08:42<ddfreyne>(http://translator.openttd.org/en/api)
08:43<ddfreyne>but I can't really give WT3 a try since I'm not a translator (and I don't intend to become an OpenTTD translator… no offense :))
08:43<TrueBrain>hehe
08:43<ddfreyne>besides, the Dutch translation is already complete, and I know about several Dutch-speaking people in here
08:44<yorick>but the dutch translation is a bit strange
08:44<TrueBrain>what WT3 is, it reads a backend format (gettext, openttd language files, ...)
08:44<TrueBrain>and gives that via an API to translators
08:44<TrueBrain>and in our case, a frontend
08:44<TrueBrain>WT3 then exports to that backend format to be published
08:46<TrueBrain>so depending on that format, I don't know if WT3 can be of any use to you ddfreyne :p
08:46<ddfreyne>TrueBrain: Hmm… so how are the actual translations done? Translations are done using the web interface, am I right?
08:47<TrueBrain>yup
08:47<TrueBrain>use the login I gave you to see how it is done :p
08:49<ddfreyne>as far as backend formats go… changing the format should be fairly easy
08:49<TrueBrain>I would suggest gettext for websites
08:49<TrueBrain>fairly simple, many tools
08:49<TrueBrain>just a bit slow :p
08:50<+glx>and for any sane application too ;)
08:50<ddfreyne>yep…
08:50<TrueBrain>glx: gettext is no option for OpenTTD :p
08:50<TrueBrain>absolute lack of cases and genders :p
08:50<+glx>I know
08:50<tdev>ddfreyne: see http://communitytranslate.org
08:50<OwenS>catgets is always fun :p
08:50<ddfreyne>what does openttd use as backend format?
08:50<+glx>it's own format
08:51<tdev>ddfreyne: i can setup a project for you there
08:51<TrueBrain>tdev: VERY ugly :p
08:51<tdev>haha xD
08:51<TrueBrain>and slow :s
08:51<tdev>it shouldnt be fancy, but functional
08:51<TrueBrain>I pressed View/Edit .....
08:51<TrueBrain>tdev: then I tihnk WT3 does a better job
08:51<ddfreyne>tdev: looks like it's in a very early stage… how far along is it?
08:51<ddfreyne>and I agree, it should be functional rather than fancy
08:52<+glx>TrueBrain: when is planed "branches" support for WT3 ?
08:52<TrueBrain>glx: WT3.1
08:52<TrueBrain>needs a bit of backend changes
08:52<+glx>ok
08:52<tdev>ddfreyne: im no web designer but the system is in use and fully functional
08:53<tdev>and its slow since i have not added DB caching yet
08:53<ddfreyne>http://localhostr.com/files/568da3/translizzator_documents_overview.png is what my system looks like
08:53<TrueBrain>looks like one of our earlier WTs :p
08:53<tdev>lol
08:53<TrueBrain>tdev: it is slow because you show ALL strings on a single page
08:53<+glx>WT2 was in use and functional ;)
08:53<tdev>looks more fancy ;)
08:53<TrueBrain>which is silly
08:53<tdev>TrueBrain: right ;)
08:53<TrueBrain>tdev: I suggest moving to WT3.1 when I finish it :p :p
08:54<tdev>lol
08:54<welshdragon>TrueBrain: please reset my translator password. kthnxbal
08:54<ddfreyne>tdev: I am using http://github.com/pilu/web-app-theme/tree/master as the theme for my app… it is MIT licenced and it is great for starting a web app without having to worry about the look at all
08:54<TrueBrain>ddfreyne: haha, nice use of a system :)
08:55<TrueBrain>welshdragon: sure ... if you had an account
08:55<tdev>uhm, there was a system that pwns all self written langauge things
08:55<tdev>*language
08:55<welshdragon>TrueBrain: i did
08:55<welshdragon>with translator2
08:55<TrueBrain>yeah ... read your email
08:55<TrueBrain>or you should have made sure that email was still valid
08:55<welshdragon>It is
08:55<+glx>you need to create an account on openttd.org
08:55<TrueBrain>then you should have read your email
08:55<tdev>http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/
08:56<tdev>it was called pootle
08:56<TrueBrain>tdev: btw, I was serious :p
08:56<tdev>TrueBrain: i am not familiar with your system
08:57<TrueBrain>it does the same, only faster, more smooth, and more user-friendly
08:57<TrueBrain>(and, much more intuitive
08:57<TrueBrain>and yes, more fancy :p
08:57-!-oskari89 [oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
08:57<tdev>haha ;)
08:57<tdev>what font do you use on your website?
08:57<tdev>is it open source?
08:58<+glx>and all WT2 users are in love with WT3 :)
08:58<tdev>how is the user authentication handled?
08:58<TrueBrain>no idea ... WT3 is loaded in the openttd.org layout (which is in SVN)
08:58<TrueBrain>(how does font ever matter? :p)
08:58<ddfreyne>what font? where?
08:58<welshdragon>TrueBrain: i get redirected to the editing afrikaans page
08:58<TrueBrain>user authentication is handled how ever needed; WT3 keeps its own table which is linked to something bigger
08:58<welshdragon>(after signing in)
08:58<tdev>14:58| <TrueBrain> (how does font ever matter? :p)
08:58<ddfreyne>welshdragon: pick a language in the top right menu
08:58<TrueBrain>welshdragon: one last time: read your email
08:58<tdev>it does matter a lot
08:59<TrueBrain>if you didn't get it, email the Translator Manager
08:59<OwenS>My biggest nightmare is apps which assume they can display their own login page. In my case they can't - I redirect everyone off to an SSO system...
08:59<tdev>^
08:59*ddfreyne uses OpenID
08:59<TrueBrain>tdev: only saying it matters, doesn't make it so :) A reason why would be nice :p
08:59<TrueBrain>as I haven't had a single complain about fonts :p
09:00<tdev>TrueBrain: just searching the links *continues searching*
09:00<tdev>TrueBrain: we are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Cyberbit font
09:00<tdev>which implement big parts of the unicode range
09:00<OwenS>My SSO system uses either it's own login or OpenID
09:00<tdev>and that font is used ingame as well
09:01<+glx>tdev: fonts are a browser thing, not a site thing
09:01<tdev>so you can see what it is looking like
09:01<TrueBrain>tdev: a, like that
09:01<TrueBrain>well, WT3 doesn't skin
09:01<TrueBrain>it gives you a tool, an API, and a frontend example (not styled)
09:01<TrueBrain>you can style it how ever you like
09:01<TrueBrain>even without CSS it is usable
09:01<TrueBrain>(it only requires JS)
09:01<TrueBrain>in theory, the API even allows ingame query and changing :p
09:01<tdev>glx: i added the fonts via CSS (or i dont get your statement)
09:02<welshdragon>TrueBrain: after 14 days my emails get deleted
09:02<welshdragon>i forgot to flag theopenttd one as do not delete
09:02<tdev>so why not use pootle instead, a well established translation engine?
09:02<ddfreyne>welshdragon: you never keep your e-mails?
09:02<TrueBrain>LOL! Cool feature ... can I suggest using an other email provider?
09:02<TrueBrain>tdev: have you SEEN the sites? :p
09:03<welshdragon>TrueBrain: it's my choice
09:03<welshdragon>i was getting 300 messages/day spam
09:03<tdev>TrueBrain: http://pootle.colivre.coop.br/de/
09:03<tdev>looks functional for me
09:03<TrueBrain>there is more in the world then 'functional'
09:03<TrueBrain>I suggest checking out WT3
09:03-!-DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has quit []
09:04<tdev>so you want to reinvent the wheel then? ;)
09:04<TrueBrain>WT2 was what pootle is
09:04<TrueBrain>now check WT3, before you continue talking ;)
09:04<tdev>link?
09:04<TrueBrain>it is like saying to linux: reinventing the wheel? (refering to Windows)
09:04<@SmatZ>yes
09:04<TrueBrain>http://translator.openttd.org
09:05<TrueBrain>either signup for an account (free, no strings attached)
09:05<TrueBrain>or ask me for a test-account
09:05<+glx>tdev: the browser is not forced to use the font you specify in CSS (if it doesn't have it)
09:06<tdev>TrueBrain: i signed up, but got no permissions
09:06<TrueBrain>http://translator.openttd.org/en/edit
09:06<TrueBrain>you maybe have to sign the ToS
09:06<TrueBrain>(click, Accept)
09:06<tdev>glx: sure i just said that its the ideas solution to see how it lookts ingame :)
09:06<TrueBrain>then you get read-only access
09:06-!-keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
09:06<TrueBrain>gives you a good enough idea of the system
09:07<welshdragon>TrueBrain: you have email
09:07<tdev>"Editing Afrikaans"
09:07<TrueBrain>welshdragon: I don't, but that doesn't matter :p
09:07<+glx>tdev: use the dropdown :)
09:07<TrueBrain>tdev: right top corner, you can select other languages
09:07<tdev>user friendly ;)
09:08<TrueBrain>he didn't just say that, did he? :p
09:08<tdev>:p
09:08<tdev>what the heck is m/w/n/p translation?
09:08<TrueBrain>cases, typical OpenTTD
09:09<OwenS>Hey, does anyone know how to enforce a mount order in fstab?
09:09<TrueBrain>OwenS: the order it is in
09:09<yorick>OwenS: top to bottom?
09:09<OwenS>I thought that was the case
09:09<tdev>TrueBrain: good work on that system :)
09:09<OwenS>Theres also the _netdev option for NFS shares it seems
09:09<TrueBrain>tdev: can we agree it is more intuative then pootle? :p
09:10<TrueBrain>so far people translate faster in WT3 than they did in WT2 (which is like pootle, translation wise)
09:10<tdev>hmh
09:11<tdev>where are the sources?
09:11<TrueBrain>sources of what?
09:11<tdev>and what backends does the system have?
09:11<tdev>of that WT3
09:11<TrueBrain>the source code of WT3, or the soruces of the translations?
09:11<tdev>the source code of WT3
09:12<TrueBrain>and as said before, WT3 runs on Python, Django framework
09:12<TrueBrain>WT3.0 is closed source (that what is online now). WT3.1 will be open source
09:12<tdev>ah, so its like pootle ;)
09:12<TrueBrain>if running an app on the Django framework makes it like Pootle, sure
09:12<tdev>:p
09:12<TrueBrain>(weird weird weird conclusions)
09:13<tdev>ok, thanks for showing me that thing :)
09:13<TrueBrain>and as I said: I was serious with my suggestion :)
09:13-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
09:13<tdev>TrueBrain: thanks, we will see :p
09:14<tdev>TrueBrain: if you have time, you might want to brainstorm with us at: http://communitytranslate.org/wiki/index.php?title=Brainstorm
09:14-!-Luette [~kvirc@HSI-KBW-078-043-033-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd
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09:14<TrueBrain>tdev: I have a good suggestion: WT3! :p
09:15<TrueBrain>most things are in WT3.0 or are ready for WT3.1 :p
09:15<TrueBrain>I would suggest putting some VCS as master, instead of plain-text
09:16<tdev>how do you version the tags?
09:16<TrueBrain>which tags?
09:16<tdev>the translation entries
09:16<TrueBrain>a VCS is our master
09:16<TrueBrain>with other words: if you translate a string, it is only known in WT3, and has the version 'pending'
09:17<TrueBrain>every night it is committed to this VCS
09:17<tdev>so you actively checkin when translating an entry?
09:17<TrueBrain>receiving the revision of this VCS
09:17<tdev>ah, explains, thanks :)
09:17<TrueBrain>post-hooks from the VCS keep WT3 up-to-date
09:17<TrueBrain>(push/pull system)
09:17<tdev>i see :)
09:17<TrueBrain>much more efficient than numbering yourself or what ever
09:17<TrueBrain>your commit cycles only need to be often enough (depending on the project)
09:18<TrueBrain>for OpenTTD 24h is sufficient. For other projects it has to be faster, for others 1w is plenty
09:18<TrueBrain>commits after N minutes of last change are even an option ;)
09:19<TrueBrain>anyway .. I was trying to figure out mode 0x13 of INT10:0 for old DOS computers :(
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09:20<OwenS>VGA 320x200?
09:20<OwenS>:p
09:20<TrueBrain>yup
09:20<tdev>bbl :)
09:20-!-tdev [~udev@p508EC1BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com]
09:20<TrueBrain>mostly the ioport activity is killing me
09:20<TrueBrain>poorly documented :(
09:21-!-Yrol [~Yrol@BAF14b5.baf.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
09:22<Yrol>°rubs eyes° morning...
09:22-!-DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has joined #openttd
09:23<yorick>afternoon
09:26<TrueBrain>DosBox has one of the worst coding style I have seen in ages
09:28<Yrol>does anyone here use mingw under win32 AND is alive?
09:28*TrueBrain shoots yorick dead
09:28<TrueBrain>no
09:28<Yrol>(TrueBrain) why not?
09:28<TrueBrain>I just shot him dead
09:29<TrueBrain>so much was obvious I hope
09:29<Yrol>forget it then
09:29<yorick>heh
09:30<yorick>I installed a truebrain shooting shield
09:30<TrueBrain>DOH!
09:30*TrueBrain tries to hack the shield
09:30<TrueBrain>where was yorick's password after he signed up on openttd.org ....
09:30<yorick>where did he sign up on openttd.org?
09:30<yorick>yrol, why?
09:30<TrueBrain>refer to yourself in 3rd person
09:30<TrueBrain>can't be right :)
09:31<yorick>also, doesn't glx run win32 and mingw
09:32<yorick>or doesn't he meet the "alive" part
09:33-!-reldred1 [~reldred@115.131.210.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:33<yorick>Yrol: why?
09:33<TrueBrain>yorick: now Yrol is not 'alive' I guess :p
09:34<yorick>ooh, it bounced off
09:36*yorick just installed emerge, for more mingw fun :-)
09:36<Yrol>yorick> yrol, why? / sorry, was trying to solve my problem. i am trying to follow tjhe instruction to compile openttd with mingw on win32, but.... too many things there are that arent described in the instruction, so it doesnt work very well
09:37<yorick>Yrol, have you installed it?
09:37<yorick>or extracted it to a desired location
09:38<welshdragon>Welsh 100.0 % complete 24 pending < why thank you :D
09:38<Yrol>so far, im at the zlib compiling step, i had to do some adjustments though, some things are not mentioned in the instructions and im about to do that zlib compilation now
09:39<yorick>oh, you shouldn't use the mingwports if it said that
09:39<yorick>the mingwports are evil, and it builds just fine without
09:41<Yrol>yorick, i do not even know what that means. :o) i try to follow these instructions to the letter, because i dont know how to do it otherwise and do not have much backgroundknowledge ( http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW )
09:42<yorick>oh, just what I thought
09:42<yorick>it is evil
09:42<yorick>and I have no idea why you have to install wget to compile wget
09:42<Yrol>yorick, i tried doing it with M$VC once.. but... thats even more complicated
09:42<yorick>and then remove wget and replace it with your compiled wget
09:44<Yrol>yes, theres the difference between us both, yorick :o) you would know, how to workaround thatr, i guess, me not.
09:44<@SmatZ>yorick: I didn't know you have your own web page! http://www.pooryorick.com/
09:44<yorick>I do not
09:44<yorick>those are shakespear fans
09:45<yorick>with minefield warnings about how the connection is untrusted
09:45<yorick>and how I cannot enter unless I open up the certicifaces list and manually add an exception
09:46<Yrol>(yorick) i assume you use linux to compile openttd?
09:46<yorick>Yrol: no, I use mingw
09:46<+glx>MSVC is easier to install and setup
09:47<yorick>but you have to install MSVC
09:47<+glx>but the downloads are big
09:47<Yrol>oh, thats no problem
09:47<Yrol>and hello glx :o)
09:47-!-DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has quit []
09:47<Yrol>glx, do you have some time for it?
09:47<yorick>and another user gone :(
09:47<yorick>Yrol: there is a mingw automagic installer, too
09:48<yorick>you run it, and it downloads, installs and configures mingw, and optional packages for you
09:48<+glx>for mingw just use buildottd installer :)
09:48<yorick>glx: that version is ancient
09:48<Yrol>uhm... i read that buildopenttd is still broken
09:48<+glx>but it installs a working mingw/msys
09:48<Yrol>oh
09:49<Yrol>im now seriously confused
09:49<yorick>mission completed!
09:49-!-TinoDid [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
09:50<Yrol>°giggles°
09:50*TrueBrain concratz yorick
09:50-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:50<TrueBrain>you really became a true #openttd user :p
09:50-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
09:52<Yrol>glx, how about MSVC express edition?
09:52<+glx>5 steps required IIRC
09:53-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
09:53<+glx>install VC express, install latest windows sdk (v6.1), install DX SDK august 2007, extract openttd-useful somewhere and add path to that somewhere in MSVC
09:54<Yrol>yes
09:55<Yrol>i will try that then. that whole mingw thing was a bit frobbly anyways with all the typing °winks°
09:57<yorick>:'(
09:57<yorick>mingw is fun!
09:57<+glx>yorick: not for average windows users
09:57<Yrol>well. with not even be able to edit the commandline in a feasible way....
09:57<yorick>who needs average windows users
09:58<Yrol>you, yorick.
09:58<Yrol>openttd needs them :o)
09:58<Yrol>well, not NEEDS them. but without a thriving community...
09:59*yorick likes non-average thriving communities better
09:59<Yrol>well, i try MSVC express then. thanks for the help, all :o)
10:05-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.188.177] has joined #openttd
10:05<+glx>Yrol: http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions is a good start (though it misses windows sdk 6.1 step, but this step is on http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2005_Express_Editions )
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10:05-!-sandeuros [~sandeuros@dhcp-077-249-087-117.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
10:06<sandeuros>hello eveybody
10:06<yorick>hello sandeuros
10:08-!-PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has joined #openttd
10:10<yorick>PeterT: what compiler do you use?
10:11<Yrol>(glx) thank you :o)
10:11<PeterT>mingw
10:12-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.188.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:12<yorick>glx: see, he can do it
10:12<PeterT>ok, i dont have time, i have to go see my family
10:13<PeterT>i just arrived in Hungary
10:13<KenjiE20>only after hours and hours of boring questions
10:13<yorick>KenjiE20: that's not the point :p
10:14<PeterT>what are we talking about?
10:14<KenjiE20>compilers, obviously
10:15<PeterT>yes, but what is "only after hours and hours of boring questions"
10:15<PeterT>and "KenjiE20: that's not the point :p"
10:16<KenjiE20>obviously a side conversation
10:16<PeterT>got it
10:16<PeterT>ok, gonna go thanks
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10:17<KenjiE20>yorick: see
10:17<KenjiE20>:P
10:17*yorick shivers
10:19<KenjiE20>anyway site updated, think I'll prod simsig
10:21<TrueBrain>damn, he is stupid :)
10:21<KenjiE20>quite
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11:06<OwenS>Hmm. Come Friday I shall rebuild this PC without a /home partition!
11:09<OwenS><3 NFS
11:18<planetmaker>yeah... /home is highly over-rated. Only /root is needed.
11:18<yorick>who needs /root when there is C:/
11:18<OwenS>By which I mean /home will be mounted from my server :p
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11:24<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is /root needed for?
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing you really need is /boot, and possibly /sbin
11:25<Jolteon>OpenTTD is surprisingly resiliant to lack of response in MP.
11:26<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: why do you need /boot? Just put it as raw data somewhere
11:26*Jolteon is currently getting about 15 frames a minute cause of a background process, but the server hasn't booted him off yet.
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>maybe your client just has not realized yet that he has been kicked?
11:27<Jolteon>No, I'm talking to people on the server :p
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>typical limit is a lag of 4 game days
11:27<Jolteon>It's definately being co-operative.
11:27<Jolteon>Anyway, question.
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>which is roughly 10 seconds
11:27<Jolteon>Whats the max production for a vanilla openttd install factory, before it'll refuse anything more?
11:28<Jolteon>My factory is currently producing 960 crates of goods a year, and refusing to really allow anything else, was just wondering if 1000 is the limit?
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>people said they've been shoving 13k through a factory
11:28<DaleStan>It's probably somewhere near MAX_INT per tick, I suspect.
11:28<Jolteon>hmm
11:29<Akoz>we had 27k on a food processing plant, if thats the same
11:30<planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is /root needed for? <-- here it's the home directory of the user root
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but what is the "need" for that?
11:31<planetmaker>well... to store the stell configuration file like .bashrc etc?
11:31<planetmaker>like for other users?
11:31<planetmaker>not that it's 100% needed if you use sudo, but well
11:33<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you want user-files somewhere :p
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11:46<Sh4n3>Hey everyone
11:46-!-Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd
11:46<Alberth>hai
11:47<Sh4n3>I got a question about a livestock/grain trainsystem i made, for some reason not everything i take to the station seems to go into the factory thats built next to it, it seems to be stocking up onto the trainstation, anyone has any idea what could've gone wrong?
11:48<Sh4n3>its like the factory doesnt 'use' the stock its getting fast enough
11:49<yorick>Sh4n3: are you using any newgrfs?
11:49<Sh4n3>not that i know of, the server i'm playing on might have some enabled
11:49<Sh4n3>but i think it's clean of newgrf's etc
11:49<yorick>some industry sets do this
11:50<Sh4n3>server admin says we dont
11:52<Alberth>default industry accepts everything you give it, so either you play with non-standard industry (ie NewGRF) or the server runs a modified OpenTTD
11:53<yorick>or could you provide a screenshot of both the newgrf window and the station with factory?
11:53<Alberth>as well as the industry window
11:53<Sh4n3>ok 1 sec
11:53<yorick>1..2..3..4..5
11:54<Sh4n3>:p
11:54<Jolteon>Alberth: No, the server is completely vanilla.
11:54<Alberth>microsoft seconds :)
11:54<Jolteon>(It's my server they're on :p)
11:55<Jolteon>No GRFs, or weird settings.
11:55<Sh4n3>uploading it now
11:55<Sh4n3>its in dutch btw, hope you dont mind :p
11:55<Jolteon>Well, some of the palyers have newGRF OpenGFX.
11:55<Jolteon>But thats it :p
11:56<Alberth>Jolteon: OpenGFX is not a NewGRF, it is the base set of graphics. It does not change behaviour of the industry
11:56<Alberth>(if it did, you'd get desyncs all over the place if only some use it)
11:56<Sh4n3>http://i28.tinypic.com/25gfka0.jpg
11:56<Sh4n3>btw
11:56<yorick>oh, no, dutch is my speciality
11:57<Sh4n3>i broke up the train rail
11:57<Sh4n3>so that new trains wont come in
11:57<Sh4n3>yet the grain/livestock count in the station is still going up..
11:57<yorick>I believe that it should work
11:57<Jolteon>I've had a look at his stuff too, and I can't figure out wtf is going on.
11:57<yorick>as long as the cargo bus things are kept
11:57<Sh4n3>ow, the trucks take the cargo away, so do the planes and the big train on top
11:58-!-etalon [~etalon@ip214-58-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
11:58<Jolteon>Also, you're dutch Sh4n3? :o
11:58<Sh4n3>yar
11:58<Sh4n3>:o
11:58<Jolteon>:o
11:58*Jolteon thought you was British.
11:58<Jolteon>you have good English :>
11:58<Sh4n3>i've built the industry with the blue roof hoping it would speed things up, but it wont :p
11:58<Sh4n3>thanks =)
11:58<etalon>could someone PLEASE help me? Im trying to do multiplayer games, but I get no servers
11:58<etalon>none at all
11:59<Jolteon>etalon: Sure you've turned the LAN thing to Internet?
11:59<etalon>I've been trying for an hour now to get something, but it just wont give me any
11:59<etalon>yup
11:59<Jolteon>oh
11:59<Jolteon>(you'd be surprised how many people don't do that)
11:59<etalon>I can press add server though
11:59<etalon>and ad an IP
11:59<Alberth>both tcp and udp
11:59<etalon>but they are always offline
11:59<Sh4n3>i had that when i ran the game of USB drive instead of properly installing it on my pc
11:59<etalon>its on my pc
12:00<Alberth>Sh4n3: no idea what is happening there :(
12:00<Sh4n3>:(
12:00<yorick>properly?
12:00<yorick>installing != proper
12:01<OwenS>:-( @ all the people who don't use realistic acceleration
12:01<yorick>:-( @ all the people who install things
12:02<Alberth>I always forget to turn it on until I get annoyed that trains drive so slow :p
12:02<Alberth>bbl
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12:03<etalon>http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7103/myserverlist.jpg
12:03<etalon>thats a link to how my server list looks like
12:03<etalon>all empoty
12:03<etalon>empty
12:03*yorick thinks it should be on automagically
12:04<yorick>etalon, did you press "server zoeken"
12:04<etalon>yup
12:04<yorick>with "verbinding" on "internet"?
12:04<etalon>yup
12:04<yorick>and if you add a server(from servers.openttd.org) manually, does it display
12:05<etalon>it does display but shows as offline
12:05<etalon>even when its online
12:06<yorick>are you sure your udp trafic is not blocked?
12:06<etalon>how can I see that?
12:06<Jolteon>http://theskyisnotblue.com/images/screenshots/ottd/otthq.png
12:06<Jolteon>Why do people feel the need to do this in MP.
12:07<yorick>etalon: obviously you can't query any servers
12:07<yorick>jolteon: because they feel they have too much money
12:07-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdb5f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
12:08<etalon>how do I fix it so I CAN query those servers
12:08<etalon>I also tried to take down my firewall
12:08<etalon>and try again
12:08<etalon>but once more
12:08<etalon>NOTHING
12:08<+glx>maybe it's your ISP
12:09<etalon>meaning I would never be able to fix it, if it were my isp, right?
12:10<+glx>couls also be the router (if you have one)
12:11<yorick>my router liked to block traffic on port 3979, too
12:11<etalon>I do have one
12:11<etalon>never did anything to change it:/
12:11<yorick>etalon, what happens if you try to do "join ip:port" in the console
12:11<etalon>??
12:11<yorick>with a server from that server list
12:12<etalon>I dont exactly get what you mean
12:12<yorick>try "join 85.10.200.174:3990"
12:12<yorick>on the ingame console
12:12<yorick>if Akoz doesn't mind
12:12<etalon>you mean I have to add that server to my list?
12:12<+glx>no
12:12<yorick>etalon: no
12:12<yorick>the console
12:13<Akoz>:o
12:13<+glx>you join directly without adding it
12:13<etalon>I dont get what you mean by console
12:13<yorick>press `
12:14-!-Enahs [~blaat@212-182-138-196.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
12:14<etalon>ýou mean ingame?
12:14<yorick>yes
12:14<etalon>then nothing happens
12:14<yorick>press it again
12:14<yorick>the ~ key
12:15<etalon>so I type in whaT?
12:15<etalon>join 85.10.200.174:3990 ?
12:15<+glx>yes
12:15<yorick>if akoz doesn't mind
12:16<etalon>error: not connected
12:16<etalon>this command/variable is only available in multiplayer
12:16<planetmaker>:-) your local network setting sthen
12:16<yorick>oh
12:16<yorick>hmm
12:16<planetmaker>he.
12:16<yorick>dihedral changed it
12:16-!-Sh4n3 [~blaat@212-182-138-196.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:17<Jolteon>Is it possible to take a giant screenshot without timing out the server? :|
12:17<yorick>Jolteon: no.
12:17<planetmaker>no
12:17<Jolteon>Seems to defeat the purpose of the allowing it then..
12:17<planetmaker>no, why?
12:17<yorick>etalon: try "connect 85.10.200.174:3990"
12:17<planetmaker>it's a client-side setting
12:17<Jolteon>"Yes, you can take it, but you'll lose your connection!"
12:18<+glx>only silly people take giant screenshot
12:18<Akoz>lies
12:18<planetmaker>:-)
12:18-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm179.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:19<@Belugas>Jolteon, save the game, go offline, take that screenshot
12:19<@Belugas>tadam!!
12:19<Jolteon>lol
12:19<etalon>im in!
12:19<Enahs>i was only trying :(
12:19<etalon>the connect worked!
12:19<Enahs>i blame windows 7 -.-
12:19<yorick>etalon: then the problem lies in udp
12:20<@Belugas>Enahs, why? you changed to winxp?
12:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16899 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16896): Missing 'return'.
12:20<Enahs>no, i tried taking a big screenshot :p
12:20<etalon>connect 85.10.200.174:3990 I used that and it connected:P
12:20<@Belugas>if you are still on win7, don't blame it. blame your lack of knowledge
12:20<Enahs>and program stopped responding
12:20<etalon>and how do I fix the problem yorick
12:20<+glx>Enahs: wait enough and it will respond again :)
12:21<yorick>etalon: no idea
12:21-!-Enahs is now known as Sh4n3
12:21<yorick>heh, reverse :-)
12:21<Sh4n3>^^
12:22<Sh4n3>anyhoo, found a 'fix' to the slow loading factory problem
12:22<Sh4n3>made 10 trucks, 5 grain, 5 livestock, which take it to the other factory :p
12:22-!-etalon [~etalon@ip214-58-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
12:22<Sh4n3>and the output of that one, goes to the same station as the output of the first oen, so its all good :P
12:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16900 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: prepare the waypoint window for buoys
12:44<Jolteon>hmm, someone on my server keeps failing to connect with "Protocol Error"
12:44<Jolteon>What does that mean? :|
12:44<@Belugas>he's not casualy dressed?
12:45<Jolteon>:(
12:45<Jolteon>I told them it was black tie :(
12:45<@Belugas>:D
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13:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16901 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3046] (rpbs): when marking trains stuck don't reset the unload counter/stuck when the vehicle is unloading. It'll be automatically reset once the vehicle wants to leave the station
13:15<TrueBrain># another year
13:16-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
13:17<yorick>ooh, it's back
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16902 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: When marking trains stuck do not reset the unload/stuck counter when the vehicle is unloading. It will be automatically reset once the vehicle wants to leave the station [FS#3046] (r16901)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI]: Small errors in the API documentation [FS#3037] (r16865)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Savegames from before 0.4 would get their waypoint 'index' messed up (r16854)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Cargo payments were not destroyed when a vehicle was destructed. This only happened when you crashed a vehicle while it was unloading [FS#3032, FS#3046] (r16801)
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13:21<TrueBrain>was it ever gone?
13:21<yorick>Alberth was gone, yes
13:21<yorick>but it's back
13:21<yorick>:)
13:21<TrueBrain>I don;t believe Alberth is an it
13:21<Alberth>neither do i
13:21<TrueBrain>but we can;t trust you on this
13:22<TrueBrain>for all we know you lie
13:22<Alberth>I just state my beliefs
13:22-!-nfc [nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:22<TrueBrain>true
13:22<yorick>maybe your beliefs are a lie
13:22<TrueBrain>sometimes, the sun and clouds can make unbelievable pretty sights
13:22<Alberth>You are free to interpret them as you like
13:22<TrueBrain>yorick: even if that is true, they still are beliefs
13:23<TrueBrain>I am bored .. what to do, what to do ..
13:24<yorick>I know something, write your own OS
13:24<TrueBrain>done that
13:24<TrueBrain>boring
13:24<OwenS>Write your own processor
13:24<yorick>continue NAIL
13:24<TrueBrain>OwenS: done that too :s
13:25<OwenS>In what language?
13:25<TrueBrain>LOL! Not 6 euro 99, but now 6 euro 99
13:25<TrueBrain>(no typo)
13:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: I designed a MIPS CPU
13:25<yorick>failblog!
13:25<OwenS>Yes. What HDL did you write it in?
13:25<TrueBrain>none
13:25<OwenS>Thats not writing a CPU :p
13:25<TrueBrain>it worked
13:25<TrueBrain>so I do not agree :)
13:25<OwenS>OK, so what hardware did you synthesize it into? :p
13:26<TrueBrain>virtual, that was a bit of a downside ...
13:26<OwenS>:-P
13:26<yorick>TrueBrain: try http://xkcd.com/350/
13:26<TrueBrain>"too expensive" :(
13:26<OwenS>FPGA boards aren't that cheap, but they're not expensive
13:26<TrueBrain>so the only thing I didn't design was the PCB itself :p
13:28<OwenS>It's not a proper CPU until it's in an FPGA :p
13:28<TrueBrain>yorick: no NAIL today .. I already spent the whole day writing a DOS JIT (to C)
13:28<TrueBrain>enough trees, optimizations, and problems :p
13:28<TrueBrain>OwenS: fair enough :)
13:28<yorick>why would you write a DOS JIT
13:28<TrueBrain>but my implementation aws faster than most others!
13:28<yorick>and what does it do
13:28<TrueBrain>because I am converting old DOS games to modern C
13:29<yorick>*cough*Transport Tycoon?*cough*
13:29<TrueBrain>and although the DOS world (real mode) is deterministic, it is not so easy to predict .. so a JIT solves dynamic jumps
13:29<OwenS>http://xkcd.com/609/ is sooo sooo true
13:29<TrueBrain>TT is not a real mode application
13:29<OwenS>Unreal mode or DPMI?
13:30<yorick>OwenS: A LINK... :(
13:30<TrueBrain>OwenS: I said Real MOde, didn't I?
13:30<OwenS>I was asking what TT was
13:30<TrueBrain>ah
13:30<TrueBrain>32bit, protected mode
13:31<TrueBrain>(I run only 16bit, real mode :p)
13:31<yorick>oh I never noticed that
13:31<OwenS>So the dos version was DPMI?
13:31<OwenS>I've been trapped with TVTropes for several months now
13:31<TrueBrain>no idea
13:31<yorick>OwenS: you got me in :'(
13:31<TrueBrain>look it up OwenS :p
13:31<TrueBrain>you should have the original TT CD somewhere there :p
13:31<OwenS>Well I don't :p
13:32<OwenS>And even if I did I don't feel I could be bothered enough to extract the exe and run strings on it :
13:32<OwenS>:p
13:32<TrueBrain>so why you ask in the first place :p
13:32<yorick>then try strings | grep
13:32<TrueBrain>to show off you know a few terms? :)
13:32<TrueBrain>TT is written in asm btw, so it is all a bit tricky anyway :)
13:32<OwenS>No, genuine curiosity :p
13:33<TrueBrain>today I tried to understand VGA video mode .. but I failed horribly ..
13:33<TrueBrain>stupid application keeps on cycling around IO 0x3DA ... which, as far as I can tell, returns correct data
13:34<Akoz>are wagons "engines" ?
13:34<TrueBrain>Akoz: they are vehicles
13:34<Akoz>but when you loop FOR_ALL_ENGINES why does wagons come up?
13:34<TrueBrain>try it :)
13:35<OwenS>I wouldn't really like to try implementing VGA. It has some very funny features
13:35<OwenS>I presume the app is waiting for the vertical retrace
13:35<TrueBrain>I don't really have a choice if I ever want to port dune2 :p Ghehe :)
13:35<TrueBrain>emulated
13:35<TrueBrain>both horizontal as vertical
13:36<Akoz>TrueBrain: FOR_ALL_ENGINES iterates over available engines.. not the list of built engines.. right?
13:36<TrueBrain>Akoz: try it :)
13:36<Akoz>I have
13:36<Akoz>just correct me if Im wrong :p
13:36<Akoz>FOR_ALL_VEHICLES seems to iterate over all vehicles in the game
13:36<frosch123>Akoz: vehicles are the present, engines are the future :p
13:37<TrueBrain>Akoz: I haven't touched the code in a few months, so wrong person to ask ;)
13:37<Akoz>is there an equivalent of FOR_ALL_ENGINES for available vehicles (wagons in my case)?
13:37-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
13:37<frosch123>engine can be a wagon as well as a non-front articulated part
13:41-!-Jolteon [~Jolteon@90.203.49.104] has quit []
13:42<TrueBrain>OwenS: but most likely I fucked up something somewhere along the line .. sadly enough it is so hard to test/try/see
13:42<TrueBrain>apps have 3 ways to access any given data: directly from mem, via INT, or via IO ...
13:45-!-nfc [nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:45<OwenS>Hehe
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16903 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 5 changes by Bjarni
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 17 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by alyr
13:55<TrueBrain>I also still wonder what the opcodes 0xF1 does ...
13:56<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> LOL! Not 6 euro 99, but now 6 euro 99 <- nobody looks at the price as long as there is a huge "SALE 70%" sign above it...
14:00<OwenS>Note to self: When trying to type "/back", make sure Anthy isn't active
14:06<TrueBrain>who?
14:06<TrueBrain>the weather is going crazy here :)
14:08<TrueBrain>I am sitting in the sun, in the rain, while I hear the thunder surrounding me
14:13-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
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14:16<Eddi|zuHause>means you can see a rainbow
14:17<TrueBrain>nope, not inside the rain
14:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16904 /branches/0.7/ (19 files in 6 dirs): [0.7] -Backport language updates
14:43-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B61A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16905 /tags/0.7.2-RC2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.2-RC2
14:47<frosch123>poor compile farm, no time to rest
14:47<yorick>it can rest the whole day
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15:25<Jeej>Hello
15:26<Jeej>What can i do with Goods? The tings from Oil Refinery?
15:27<yorick>Jeej: towns
15:27<@Belugas>towns like goods
15:27<@Belugas>goodies for towns
15:28<@Belugas>unfortunately, they might not know they ike it until grown big enough
15:28<@Belugas>crazy townsd
15:29<Akoz>question: the wiki says that towns grow faster the more food you deliver to them, but looking at the code I cant see evidence of that, nor from experimentation. is the wiki wrong?
15:30<@Belugas>crazy wiki
15:30<Akoz>dont you have a job to get back to? :p
15:31*Akoz wants to buy a compiler that doesnt spend 30 minutes to complete the F5 mission
15:31<OwenS>Akoz: It's called tcc, but it generates crap code :p
15:31<Akoz>crap code?
15:32<OwenS>It's optimizer sucks
15:32*Akoz googles
15:32<OwenS>TinyCC
15:32<Akoz>hmm
15:32<Akoz>will it be as slow as "debug mode" in vs?
15:32<@Belugas>water, food, mail, passenger
15:33<@Belugas>nothing for goods, after a quick scan
15:33<@Belugas>and i was waiting for the compiler :P
15:33<Jeej>So i have to find a big town?
15:34<Jeej>because i have already build railroad to a town, it won't accept my goods...
15:34<Akoz>jeej: towns with between 1000 and 1500 inhabitants should accept
15:34<Akoz>"Any amount of water delivered to a town satisfies the need for water for that month. Excessive water supply does not increase the rate of growth, unlike food. "
15:34*Akoz deducts that food increases growth
15:35<Jeej>This town is 1205 big
15:35<Akoz>try placing the station nearer the middle. make sure you dont destroy any big buildings in the process
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>Akoz: that sentence is rubbish
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>Jeej: you need 3 office buildings
15:35<Akoz>why is there rubbish in the wiki? O_o
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>Akoz: because you didn't fix it?
15:36<Chruker>akoz, because it is user created
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>the wiki is full of half-knowledge and wishful thinking
15:36*Akoz cusses @ user
15:36<Jeej>Eddi|zuHause: it has i think 4 office buildings
15:36*OwenS wishes he could find an OpenWRT compatible, 802.11n, gigabit router, that didn't cost a fotrune
15:36<Akoz>jeej: click the question mark top right (?) and click each of the buildings
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>Jeej: they must be in the catchment area of the station
15:37<Akoz>each building will have a line where it says Goods(X/8)
15:37<Akoz>add thoses X-es up for each building in the coverage area. if you get to 8/8 it willa ccept goods
15:37<Jeej>I have flats, which accept goods
15:38<Jeej>but those are 1/8
15:38<Akoz>ok, then you need 8 flats
15:38<yorick>OwenS: make your own
15:38<Akoz>but other building that accept goods constribute as well
15:38<Akoz>do you have any bigger buildings?
15:38<Jeej>No :-(
15:39<Akoz>then your city is too small
15:39<OwenS>yorick: Making my own would fall into the "costs a fortune" category
15:39<yorick>OwenS: costs a fortune of time?
15:39<Akoz>Jeej: does your city require food or water to grow?
15:39<OwenS>of money
15:40<yorick>OwenS: or does it?
15:40<Akoz>time=money
15:40<Jeej>Akoz: euh?
15:40<Akoz>jeej: what climate do you play?
15:40<yorick>not fair
15:40<Jeej>hot
15:40<Jeej>i have dessert
15:40<OwenS>yorick: I'm not gonna manage to build a router for less than the ones which cost a fortune :p
15:41<Akoz>ok if its built on green tiles it might not need food or water to grow
15:41<Akoz>if its built on desert tiles it probably needs food and water to grow
15:41<Jeej>it is built on green tiles
15:41<OwenS>Isn't food an arctic thing?
15:41<Akoz>then make 5 bus stations next to it and send a bus to travel between them
15:41<Akoz>your city will grow quite fast
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15:41<Akoz>*next to eachother
15:43<Jeej>so when my city has grown, it should accept my goods?
15:43<Akoz>yes
15:43<Akoz>as it grows it builds more goods-accepting buildings
15:43<Jeej>ah
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16:16<TrueBrain>lalala
16:17<Akoz>TrueBrain: wanna help me betatest?
16:17<Akoz>http://paste.openttd.org/184392
16:17<yorick>TrueBrain: beware the uglyness
16:17<Akoz>aye
16:17<Akoz>lots of uglyness
16:18<TrueBrain>you really should fix your coding style ASAP
16:18<yorick>Akoz: I don't think it fits into pastebin
16:18<Akoz>it does now
16:18<Akoz>its <64 kb
16:18<yorick>your patch has 648 lines?
16:18<TrueBrain>either way, Akoz, I haven't played OpenTTD in ages
16:18<Akoz>17.3 to be exact
16:18<Akoz>yes yorick
16:19<Akoz>ok tb, np :)
16:19*Akoz invites anyone else to help
16:20<yorick>beware anyone else
16:20<Akoz>:<
16:21<Akoz>its not the coding style I need help testing anyway ^^
16:21<TrueBrain>then I suggest not knocking on my door :p
16:21<yorick>hav you fixt it?
16:21<Akoz>the code or the style?
16:22<Akoz>the code is working,.. so far
16:22<Akoz>the style.. I tried a bit
16:22<Akoz>Im sure its not living up to any standard though
16:23<Akoz>http://paste.openttd.org/184393
16:24<yorick>Akoz: the random includes are still there
16:24<Akoz>no
16:24<yorick>and openttd has its own vector type
16:24<Akoz>oh. whats it called?
16:24<yorick>SmallVec
16:24<TrueBrain>Akoz: you might want to consider uploading to some http (from your ISP or what ever)
16:24<TrueBrain>easier than pastebin ;)
16:25<yorick>also, what do you need std::string for
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16:25<Akoz>what is the advantage of using smallvec?
16:26<Akoz>TrueBrain: I find pastebin much easier than having to deal with ftp all the time :p
16:26<yorick>that you will not be looked at by people like me
16:26<Akoz>:p
16:26<Akoz>I suppose I have no choice then..
16:26-!-TMS [~Will@75-136-132-146.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #openttd
16:26<TrueBrain>I supose you are right
16:27<TrueBrain>welcome TMS
16:27<yorick>not welcome, I believe he's been there before
16:27<TrueBrain>yeah, 33 weeks ago
16:27<TrueBrain>well .. last time he has spoken
16:27<TMS>Wait, what?
16:28<TMS>I'm running a (somewhat popular) OpenTTD server, and I'm thinking about going dedicated.
16:28-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:28<TMS>I have it resetting itself at certain increments (i.e. when the server's year reaches 2050).
16:28<Akoz>yorick: smallvec is static
16:29<Akoz>I need one with dynamic size
16:29<yorick>Akoz: it is not
16:29-!-Jeej [~Karl@5ED4D407.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Jeej]
16:29<yorick>I used it
16:29<TMS>I need it to load the same savegame every time it resets, as opposed to generating a fractal map when the game resets.
16:29<Akoz>oh. my bad
16:29<yorick>it's not static
16:29<@Belugas>Akoz, your code needs breathing room. Badly
16:30<TMS>How do I keep it from making a fractal map, and ensure that it loads the same map every time it resets?
16:30<TMS>err, not map, savegame.
16:30<@Belugas>fractal? not in open.. the seed is what makes the map
16:30<TrueBrain>TMS: I don't think that is possible. Not sure ...
16:31<yorick>you could try patching the game
16:31<TMS>I'm not sure that I could build it myself.
16:31<Akoz>yourick: what's a good number for the S parameter?
16:31<TMS>I know of a few servers that pulled this trick off, i.e. Mega's World map (before it closed).
16:32<Akoz>Belugas: meaning making more functions to chop up the code some?
16:32<yorick>Akoz: what S parameter?
16:32<@Belugas>thisisveryclaustropobicallywrittencode
16:33<@Belugas>this is not so claustrophobic stuff
16:33<Akoz>Belugas: I have a small screen :p
16:33<@Belugas>then, don't patch for open
16:33<@Belugas>this+that=harghhh
16:33<@Belugas>this + that = better
16:33<Akoz>ok I see what you're saying
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>you have fear of wide spaces in code? :p
16:34<Akoz>yourick: <typename T, uint S>
16:34<Akoz> * @param S The steps of allocation
16:34<Akoz>yes Eddi.. too much white space and Im stuck scrolling all the time :p
16:34<@Belugas>int d = DistanceMax(TileXY(TileX(i->xy)+(i->width/2), TileY(i->xy)+(i->height/2)), tile);
16:34*yorick looks
16:34<@Belugas>bad
16:34<Akoz>lol.. true
16:34<yorick>Belugas: I told him to use TileDiffXY already
16:34<@Belugas>all over the place....
16:35<@Belugas>indeed, yorick
16:35<@Belugas>good yorick
16:35<Akoz>I changed most of those to TileDiff
16:35<Akoz>that one must've slipped my mind.. :>
16:35-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.112.70.98.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
16:35<@Belugas>hem... it was about spacing, too...
16:36<andythenorth>evening
16:36<yorick>Akoz: try 32
16:36<@Belugas>int d = DistanceMax(TileXY(TileX(i->xy) + (i->width / 2), TileY(i->xy) + (i->height / 2)), tile);
16:36<@Belugas>like...
16:36<@Belugas>andythenorth, welcome
16:36<@Belugas>if(intellideDepots.at(i).xy==t) -> if (intellideDepots.at(i).xy == t)
16:36<@Belugas>man...
16:36<@Belugas>ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!
16:37<Akoz>hahaha
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>curing claustropobic code is easy... you just have to put escape sequences in it
16:37<Akoz>give me 10 minutes belu :p
16:37*Akoz copy+pastes Belugas' sentences into the source
16:37<TrueBrain>Akoz: well .. 90% of your code is wrong in that aspect
16:37<TrueBrain>so ... I guess you need more than a copy paste
16:37<@Belugas>-> //is there a nreaby station we can link to? -> /* is there a nearby station we can link to? */
16:37<TrueBrain>but I told you a few times already ... I will give up on that :p
16:37<andythenorth>nforenum: I need to prevent renum from treating an invalid character as a problem. I do have a valid use case for this, which I can explain if that helps...
16:37<Alberth>better do a global search/replace to add white space
16:37<@Belugas>comment on one line -> /* */
16:37<TMS>hmm
16:38-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:38<TMS>http://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server#Loading_a_game
16:38<SpComb>s// /
16:38<andythenorth>I have read the renum documentation, I have tried various things, and I haven't got a solution that works (yet)
16:38<TMS>I need that to happen every time the server resets
16:38<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: that sounds funny ;)
16:38<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: with some luck, it might actually work
16:39<DaleStan>andythenorth: Chances are you'll have to a search/replace, but what's the use case?
16:39<@Belugas>in intelligentdepot.h , why do you no make the "trailing" functions in a class?
16:39<@Belugas>they look lonely
16:39<Alberth>SpComb: maybe with s/\<\|\>/ / :)
16:39*Belugas resumes his work on threads with Delphi
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16:40<TMS>is this even possible?
16:40<yorick>ugh, delphi
16:40<TMS>if not, that's a feature that would make this quite easier
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16:41<andythenorth>DaleStan: http://paste.openttd.org/184394
16:41<andythenorth>This is in the context of a makefile system for producing the grf. It's a good system
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16:44<Akoz>whats up with "*data.Append() = (int32)tmp;" instead of data.Append((int32)tmp;" ?
16:44<DaleStan>Well, the latter won't compile, for one.
16:44<Akoz>obviously.. but I mean why was it made that first way
16:45<Akoz>its.. unintuitive
16:45<DaleStan>Because you left of a )?
16:45<Akoz>that I did
16:45<DaleStan>andythenorth: There's no way to evade that check. And I'm not sure I can make one. How does NFORenum figure the length of {{GRF_ID}}? If it's six bytes of zero, for example, then the remainder of sprite should be marked as extraneous.
16:46<andythenorth>DaleStan: ok, thanks.
16:47<Alberth>Akoz: "FORCEINLINE T *Append()" is how it is defined.
16:47<yorick>nAkoz: *data.Append() = (int32)tmp;
16:47<yorick>that
16:47<yorick>not unintuitive
16:47<yorick>C
16:47<Alberth>(assuming you use a SmallVector)
16:47<yorick>it's C programmers writing C++
16:49<Akoz>hmh
16:49-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-140-69-225.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:50<frosch123>[22:45] <Akoz> whats up with "*data.Append() = (int32)tmp;" instead of data.Append((int32)tmp;" ? <- you can also e.g. pass it to a function without assigning a value
16:50<yorick>Akoz: and the S is for specifying how many bits you want to allocate
16:50<yorick>which is normally 32 for a pointer
16:50<yorick>also, don't listen to me
16:50-!-TheCondor [~thecondor@82-169-216-227.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:50<@Belugas>good night all
16:50<Akoz>gn
16:51<TrueBrain>night Belugas
16:51-!-fjb [~frank@p5485D7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:51<fjb>Hello
16:51-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdb5f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:52<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:52<Nite_Owl>Hello fjb
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16:56-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
16:56-!-stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.1, 0.7.2-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only :D
16:57-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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17:25<Jolteon>stupid question
17:25<TrueBrain>no
17:25<Jolteon>how do you attach more than one engine to a train..
17:25<TrueBrain>Jolteon: drag and drop
17:25<Jolteon>tried
17:25<Jolteon>won't let me
17:25<Alberth>build a second engine and drop it onto the train
17:25<TrueBrain>read the error message
17:25<Jolteon>...ffs
17:25<Jolteon>Kill me.
17:25<Jolteon>Just. Kill me.
17:25<TrueBrain>if you really want to
17:26<TrueBrain>@kick Jolteon killed (off from the channel)
17:26-!-Jolteon was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [killed (off from the channel)]
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17:26<Jolteon>:(
17:26<Jolteon>I was dragging it onto the current engine, not after it :(
17:27<Nite_Owl>you could put it at the end of the train if I remember correctly - it depends on where in the consist you drop it
17:29<Nite_Owl>just not in front of the engine that is already there
17:31<Akoz>http://paste.openttd.org/184395 <- better?
17:31<Jolteon>Is there a copy of the TT(D?) scenario MegaRail that works on OpenTTD?
17:33-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.112.70.98.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd []
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't the original scenario work?
17:36<Jolteon>...the original ones work? D:
17:36<Jolteon>I thought OpenTTD was too different.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>the issue is not "different", the issue is "downward-compatible"
17:40<TrueBrain>haha, stupid translator needs a login to request data .. sucks ... :p
17:42<TrueBrain>look m
17:42<TrueBrain>look m'om, I can add a HTTP fetcher in OpenTTD in under the 15 minutes
17:42<TrueBrain>ghehe
17:42-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
17:46-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:47<TrueBrain>hmmm ... same request gives different results from lighttpd
17:47<TrueBrain>(sometimes Content-Length, sometimes length in body)
17:47<TrueBrain>sometimes ending with \r\n, sometimes not
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17:58<TMS>Hey, what's the name of that script that checks OpenTTD server stats?
17:58<TMS>The PHP script for webservers?
17:59<TrueBrain>openttdlib?
17:59-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>who needs deterministic results anyway?
18:07<TrueBrain>I DO!
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>that is heavily overrated
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>you can get significantly improved results with randomized algorithms
18:08<TrueBrain>but at least my 'liveWT3' openttd client almost works :p
18:17-!-Polygon [~Poly@x14r4b.wh4.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
18:20<TrueBrain>haha, this is cool :)
18:20<TrueBrain>if I make a change in WT3, I see that directly in my client :)
18:20<TrueBrain>my client = ingame
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18:22<Akoz>is there a replacement for GetEngine() and GetVehicle() in trunk version compared to 0.7.1 ?
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>have you looked at the vehicle struct?
18:24*TrueBrain makes a happy dance :)
18:24<TrueBrain>and wish you all a good night :)
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>right back at ya!
18:25<Akoz>yes eddie.. cant find anything
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r16906 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Fix (r12939): Child windows of build toolbars were placed inconsistently.
18:25-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9ec2.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>and have you had a look at the svn log where it says anything about GetEngine?
18:33<+glx>I guess it's something looking like XXX::Get()
18:34<Chruker>How does OpenTTD run on netbooks (atom 1.6~ processors)
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>by typing ./openttd
18:35<Chruker>*how well*
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>everything above 200MHz and 16MB ram should run openttd
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>with limited number of vehicles and map size
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>TTO ran well on 66MHz with 80 trains
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>requirements have risen a bit since then
18:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16907 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs):
18:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make a more clear distinction between reservation functions that
18:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: return a bool and that return TrackBits; GetRailStationReservation vs
18:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: GetRailwayStationReservation, which one returns the bool and which one the
18:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: TrackBits?
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>may i flip a coin to answer that question?
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18:47<Yrol>greetings. anyone there to help with compiling under MSVC? ( the instructions arent really helpful )
18:48<Chruker>Whats the difference between the files in the awe/, fm/ and gm/ directories in TTD?
18:48-!-TMS [~Will@75-136-132-146.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:48<Chruker>different midi formats?
18:48<Yrol>(Chruker) those are files for various types of soundcards, yes.
18:49<Chruker>gm for general midi format, awe for soundblaster AWE?
18:49<Yrol>aye.
18:49<Chruker>and fm?
18:50<Yrol>dunno, foomusic or so °winks°
18:51<Yrol>adlib/generic soundcard i would guess, its too long ago for me
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18:56<Chruker>Adlib/SoundBlaster FM
18:56*Chruker just ran the old old TTD dos setup :-)
18:56<Yrol>ah, yes. that was the difference FM/AWE
18:57<Yrol>AWE = Advanced Wave Effects
18:58<Yrol>°sighs° i wish those writing compiling instructions would actually do that while following them.
18:58<Chruker>I had an AWE32 in my first PC... it was expensive as hell, but the midi sound was nice.
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19:00<Yrol>yes, i still have my sb16 with a piggyback roland-board. sadly, nowadays there is no "created" music anymore. only mp3s
19:00<Yrol>or effects...
19:01<Chruker>With space no-longer being expensive, there is really no need for using midi to make music sound good.
19:01<Chruker>I wonder if composers and such still use it.
19:02<Yrol>at least the mogplug scene is quite alive i bet
19:02-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
19:03<Yrol>and theres groups that, if im correct, still create music with the support ( or solely ) with the C64
19:04-!-welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd
19:05*Chruker jazzes around to the TTD music.... mmmmhhhh tasty
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>FM stands for "frequency modulation", i.e. you play sinus tones to emulate certain instruments
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>AWE is sample-based, so you can have more realisic sounding instruments by playing actual recordings
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19:08<Yrol>°sighs° i give up. apparently it is not welcomed, that newbies help or learn about ottd-compiling.
19:09<+glx>did you really follow the wiki ?
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19:10<Yrol>glx, to the letter.
19:10<+glx>what errors do you get?
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19:10<Eddi|zuHause><Chruker> With space no-longer being expensive, there is really no need for using midi to make music sound good. <- that is not true. it applies for distributing music, but not for creating music (by feeding a note sheet to a computer)
19:11<Yrol>there is too much backgroundknowledge being assumed i have, or, simply forgetting important hints.
19:12<Yrol>glx, stuff about basic exe-files not being found, cl.exe...mt.exe...
19:12<+glx>they are part of msvc
19:14<Yrol>im also kinda on my toes, how the creators of the instructions would dare to thank the openttd developers for a great game, but omit totally the REAL creators workcredits.
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: probably again a faulty %path%
19:14<+glx>but msvc install sets everything
19:14-!-`Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit]
19:16<Yrol>im sure it is. yet... i already adjusted some paths as the direct x sdk doesnt install into the usual path ( which is mentioned in the wiki ) glx. if i install everything in the right place and follow the steps and there are errors, then something is wrong. :o)
19:16<+glx>hmm did you restart windows after install (just in case) ?
19:16-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
19:16<Yrol>hm... i could try that, yes.
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: i suggest you relax to some music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv4UqrWV2_U&feature=related
19:23<Yrol>glx. the additionally needed libraries, where in the directory-list of MSVC do they have to be exactly? at the top, or at the end? the instructions say "before", which i find not very presice
19:24<+glx>on top of the list
19:24<Yrol>°looks at Eddi|zuHause and hopes it is not some kind of rammstein or metallicastuff, grins°
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>no, better ;)
19:25<Akoz>I downloaded from trunk and when running it it says 16903M in the window, but the code says 16905 .. which is right?
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>and try the /me command
19:25-!-Guest80 [~KenjiE20@92.20.232.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>Akoz: try svn info, it should say something about "last changed rev"
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>the other revisions are probably in a different branch
19:27<Yrol>i know how the me command works and dont use it for it being too spammy.
19:27<Yrol>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8JLqsbK5V0 // another war...another eve...
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>you can't have listened through the whole piece yet
19:30<Yrol>that is true.
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's really good
19:32<Akoz>ty Eddi
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19:34<Akoz>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44446
19:34<Akoz>wtb betatester
19:35<Yrol>wow, the part from 03:00 to 03:20 is really good, visually nicely choreogrpahed, Eddi|zuHause
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there's another such part at 4:45
19:38<Yrol>yes. sadly, it all looks like a hymn to war, an advertise, gloryfying it.
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>the music is from the battlestar galactica soundtrack
19:42<Yrol>yes.
19:44<Yrol>this is what i get "Error 1 Error result -1073741819 returned from 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v6.0A\bin\mt.exe'. Project
19:44<Yrol>"
19:44-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514c420a.l3.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:44<Yrol>i have no clue, whats that supposed to tell me.
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>i cannot help you there, i have never used visual studio
19:45<Yrol>as much as i know about programming, shoujldnt it return zero or so?
19:45-!-wolfy [~Wolfenste@dhcp-077-250-089-252.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>only if it runs correctly ;)
19:46<Yrol>and i guess glx lost his patience with me ;oP
19:47-!-Polygon [~Poly@x14r4b.wh4.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<+glx>hmm I dunno, anyway openttd requires v6.1 :)
19:47<Yrol>ms vc 6.1?
19:47<Yrol>oh.. sdk 6.1
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>no... sdk 6.1
19:48<Yrol>so.. just another error from the wikipage
19:48<+glx>2008 express installs 6.0A
19:48<+glx>wikipage was correct
19:48<+glx>it's now outdated
19:48<Yrol>how do you guys actually get something done? °grins° you must be all using linux
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>all sane developers use linux ;)
19:49<+glx>no I'm on windows, but I never used the wiki to install dev env :)
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>only i do not know any sane developers :p
19:50<Yrol>glx... this one? http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/Microsoft-Windows-SDK/1163005004/1
19:50<+glx>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=E6E1C3DF-A74F-4207-8586-711EBE331CDC
19:51<+glx>allways get MS stuff from MS
19:51<Yrol>youre kidding me, right? 1.3 GB???
19:52<+glx>v6.0A is as big I think, just it is included in msvc install
19:53<Yrol>118 MB
19:54<+glx>it's the web setup so you don't need to download all stuff
19:54<+glx>check http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2005_Express_Editions for details
19:56<Yrol>hm, i hope i can install it to a different drive than C:
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19:58<Yrol>oh, nice... i can drop 90% of the stuff in there, thats just samples and documentation
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20:00<+glx>yes full install 1.28GB, help+sample 1.10GB :)
20:00<Yrol>yes
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>"travellers to bulgaria are warned that officers at the border demand fake fees for a "mandatory swine flu shot"
20:00<+glx>nice way to make money :)
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>"neither does a swine flu shot exist, nor is it known what is actually in the shot"
20:01<Yrol>ah, the compiling guide for MSVC 2005 is far better. it even mentions where to get the SVN
20:03<+glx>[16:05:38] <+glx> Yrol: http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions is a good start (though it misses windows sdk 6.1 step, but this step is on http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2005_Express_Editions )
20:03<+glx>I already said it ;)
20:04<Yrol>yes. as i said, 2005 is better. maybe a hint on the 2008 version to use the 2005 version as base would be useful.
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: it's a wiki. improve it.
20:05<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) not my place. im just a user.
20:05<OwenS>Note to self: On Solaris box, never do #killall
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: exactly your place, as you now know the information that you lacked
20:05<Yrol>and i dont mean it in the emaning of tron ;o)
20:06<OwenS>Solaris killall != Linux killall by a large margin
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: the devs do not edit the wiki. their time is too valuable for that
20:07<Yrol>sorry, but that just sounds wrong, Eddi|zuHause
20:07<+glx>that's a wiki
20:07<+glx>that's how it's meant to be used :)
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: it's a wiki. users edit it.
20:08<+glx>sometime devs edit it (usually to fix big lies)
20:08<+glx>but we rarely look at the wiki
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: sometimes the view of an outsider is exactly what a documentation needs
20:11<Akoz>what are the rules in GPL license when posting binaries?
20:12<OwenS>Source for the code they are based upon must be provided
20:12<+glx>a diff/patch is tolerated
20:12<Akoz>it must be in the same file? (zip for instance)?
20:12<OwenS>no
20:12<+glx>you must be able to provide the full source on request
20:12<Akoz>but.. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44446
20:13<Akoz>Last edited by Rubidium on Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
20:13<Akoz>Follow the rules in GPL license (COPYING) when posting binaries
20:13<Akoz>I posted the .exe in a zipfile
20:13<Akoz>should I add some documentation in there or smth?
20:13<+glx>exe is not enough for openttd
20:14<Akoz>adding all added up to 4,5 mb and max size is 4
20:14<Yrol>okay. i added a tiny thing
20:14<+glx>lang files and data files corresponding to the exe are needed to
20:15<Akoz>ok.. but is that why the post was removed?
20:15<+glx>ask rubidium for more details I think
20:16<Yrol>glx., okay.. the exe-errors are gone with 6.1.. now the usual bughunting...
20:16<Akoz>k, thx
20:16<+glx>first build a clean version Yrol :)
20:17<Yrol>wont help :o( "Error 1 Error result -1073741819 returned from 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\bin\cl.exe'. Project
20:17<Yrol>"
20:18<+glx>check the log
20:18<+glx>output tab
20:20<Yrol>the same
20:20<Yrol>"1>Project : error PRJ0002 : Error result -1073741819 returned from 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\bin\cl.exe'."
20:20<+glx>and nothing above this line ?
20:21<Yrol>oh.. it seems, string.cpp is the bad guy
20:21<Yrol>tahts the line above it
20:21<Yrol>i mean... errrm. the line above it says "1>string.cpp" not "oh.. it seems, string.cpp is the bad guy"
20:21<+glx>paste all the output on paste.openttd.org
20:22<Yrol>http://paste.openttd.org/184396
20:23<Yrol>i cleaned it first and then did a rebuild. release-version.
20:23<+glx>4>..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(16) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory <-- incorrect dx sdk installation :)
20:24<Yrol>well, dont we want to go from top error to bottom error?
20:24<+glx>hmm and strgen failed to build
20:26<+glx>but it stranged it compiled openttd even in table/strings.h generation failed
20:26<Yrol>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31528&view=previous
20:27<Yrol>( last two posts) °growls° i really dislike it, when people post they found a solution, but dont post the solution
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20:28<Yrol>why do i get a dmusic error, if i set it up to not use music?
20:28<+glx>hmm cl segfaulted
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>that's microsoft quality at work for you ;)
20:31<+glx>http://www.mskbarticles.com/index.php?kb=967485
20:32<Yrol>okay, i switched off the dxmusicpart.. aaaand get the next error °sigh°
20:32<+glx>may solve your cl crash problem
20:33<Yrol>i didnt had those problems i tried last to compile openttd a year ago ( you might remember, glx ) since then i upgraded my pc. it now has 2 cores, maybe thats the issue?
20:36<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) well, at lest i dont have to "fight the OS" with MS.
20:36<Yrol>so a big step with problems is gone already
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>you don't fight the OS... you need to live in symbiotic cooperation
20:37<Yrol>with linux? sorry, im not a computer ;oP
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that is your problem
20:37<Yrol>1
20:37<+glx>linux is user friendly now
20:37<Yrol>( in boolean )
20:38<keoz>(lol)
20:38<Yrol>glx, there are userfriendly GUIs just like MSVC around for linux? so i dont need to do the whole typing?
20:39<Eddi|zuHause>opposing to the popular opinion, a "1" does not mean anything to the computer... boolean is only the form of storage of the data, not their interpretation
20:40<Yrol>opposing to that sentence, eddie :o) you cant read a sentence without interpreting it. ( okay, you REALLY are a computer °winks° )
20:42<Yrol>however... im glad all over my body already, that there are some people alive and helping. and even without pointing me to that disgusting pamphlet "how to ask question in a smart way" °shudders°
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20:57<Yrol>hmmm glx ?
20:58<+glx>?
20:58<Yrol>it doesnt seem to be a problem with MSVC, but with how openttd was coded "The problem occurs only when the number of members in the class far exceeds the recommended maximum of 4,096."
20:59<+glx>but it's not the case
20:59<Yrol>"When the Debug Information Format option is turned on when you build the source" where can i switch off that DIF-option?
21:00<+glx>and string.cpp is also compiled for openttd
21:03<+glx>hmm open strgen properties
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21:14<Yrol>uh oh...
21:14<Yrol>glx., i switched now to a more verbose debugsystem
21:14<Yrol>massive flooding of warnings and erros, but also more information about the string-error
21:14<Yrol>"Error 1 fatal error C1902: Program database manager mismatch; please check your installation k:\OPENTTD\svn.openttd.org\src\string.cpp 1
21:15<+glx>even after a full rebuild ?
21:15<Yrol>yes, cleaned and rebuilt
21:16<Yrol>i also downloaded the 800 MB MSVC service pack, but... that cant be used for the express editions
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21:16<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) did you ever played homeworld?
21:16<+glx>what's the exact version installed ?
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>not that i recall...
21:17<+glx>(about box)
21:17<Yrol>hello mr. richard edlund. please dont dismember anyone here °winks°
21:18<Yrol>v9.0.30729.1 SP
21:18<Yrol>seems, its installed already
21:18<+glx>yes that's SP1
21:18<Yrol>at least something
21:18<+glx>and I have the same version
21:20<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) its anice 3d space strategy realtime game, a bit old though. and has a very nice soundtrack available for free, collected by the community. ncie ambient stuff
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21:27<Yrol>°laughs° i love MS... glx... from a forum about that databasemanager error "The compiler is finding the wrong version of mspdbsrv.exe. Or it always used the wrong version and now it is finding the right one. "
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21:28<+glx>yes MS world is full of fun stuff
21:28<Yrol>(glx) http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/Vsexpressvc/thread/0ff23fa1-0788-405e-b6c9-034c013d3652
21:28<Yrol>hm, what if i simply disable the support for multiple parallel builds?
21:34<Yrol>(glx) do you have this cl.exe version? 15.0.30729.1
21:34<Yrol>in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\bin
21:36<+glx>hmm I have 15.0.21022.8
21:36<+glx>so no SP1 for cl.exe
21:39<+glx>I installed using the iso
21:41<Yrol>hm.. cl.exe seems to be included in the .net framework too
21:48<Yrol>ha! :o) http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967485
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21:51<Yrol>but where do i put that "/typedil-"?
21:53<+glx>dunno
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22:03<Yrol>i dont think, it has to do with the string-file at all. it happens to all cpp files actually
22:04<Yrol>http://paste.openttd.org/184397
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22:05<Yrol>http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1360371&page=17
22:14<Yrol>okay, im off to bed and loko tomorrow into this again
22:14<Yrol>thanks for help and food :o) °waves°
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 22 00:00:47 2009