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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-23

---Logopened Thu Jul 23 00:00:47 2009
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02:47<blathijs>Rubidium: Hey, you removed rbijker.net/openttd/debian?
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03:00<TrueBrain>poor blathijs
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03:02<Donald__>hello, is there change to get computer ai in multiplayer game ?
03:03<TrueBrain>Donald__: upgrade to 0.7.1, and you can
03:03<Donald__>I have that versio. Where i can actice computer ai ?
03:03<TrueBrain>download them
03:04<TrueBrain>via Content Service (or what is its name)
03:04<Donald__>ok, then where i can active this contend to this multiplayer game ?
03:04<Donald__>content :D
03:04<TrueBrain>enable the switch which says: allow AIs in multiplayer
03:05<TrueBrain>make sure the difficulty settings have an AI (all on the server)
03:05<TrueBrain>and it will start
03:05<TrueBrain>if you can't wait, enter in the console on the server: start_ai
03:05<Donald__>ok thanks .. I have to check that :)
03:05<Forked>Good morning :)
03:06<TrueBrain>good morning to you too Forked
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03:45<planetmaker>moin
03:45<TrueBrain>IT IS A PLANETMAKER!!!!! :)
03:45*TrueBrain makes a YEAH sound
03:46<planetmaker>oh, a true brain. Beware the fakes, though ;)
03:46<TrueBrain>yeah, they tend to be around
03:46<planetmaker>lately quite a lot
03:48<TrueBrain>shall we flame them? :P
03:48<ddfreyne>you from Magrathea?
03:48<TrueBrain>then I would send you two torpedos
03:49<Prof_Frink>Oh no, not again
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04:08<fjb>moin
04:09<TrueBrain>oh no, a fjb
04:09<fjb>Oh yes
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04:19<TrueBrain>wb reldred, we almost missed you :)
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04:29<Ammler>good day you guys.
04:31<TrueBrain>morning Ammler
04:31<TrueBrain>how are you this morning?
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04:33<Ammler>this morning is fine, thanks, how is you?
04:33<TrueBrain>good good :) Breaking my brain over programming problems .. always good to wake up with :)
04:33<Ammler>oh, you are around quite long already :-)
04:33-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEbba2.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
04:33<Ammler>using netbeans now?
04:34<TrueBrain>yup, works very well I have to say
04:34<TrueBrain>a bit slow from time to time
04:37<TrueBrain>and it makes mistakes .. but that we all do :p
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04:41<@Rubidium>blathijs: no, I've moved it
04:41<blathijs>Rubidium: where to?
04:41*fonsinchen uses eclipse
04:42<@Rubidium>s@debian@ports/debian@
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04:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16924 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16922): selling or sending to depot, what's the difference? :)
04:47<TrueBrain>oeh, I know thatone!
04:48<@Rubidium>so fetch your cookie at albert
04:49*TrueBrain runs to Alberth
04:49<TrueBrain>Alberth Alberth Alberth Alberth Alberth Alberth Alberth
04:49<TrueBrain>I WANT A COOKIE!!!
04:49<Noldo>low on sugar are you?
04:49<TrueBrain>low?
04:49<@Rubidium>"zo high als een Vlaamse papegaai" ;)
04:49<TrueBrain>hahahaha
04:50<fjb>Become a web browser and you get lots of cookies.
04:50<TrueBrain>oeh, yes please
04:50<TrueBrain>how can I become one? (Liza mode)
04:50*Alberth locks cookies until TB calmed down
04:50<TrueBrain>:'(
04:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium
04:50<TrueBrain>Alberth doesn't want to give me my promised cookie :(
04:50<fjb>Liza must have impressed you.
04:51<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: try http://www.albert.nl/
04:51<TrueBrain>fjb: in ways I can't describe
04:51<Alberth>TrueBrain: programming so early in the morning makes you a bit hyper, doesn't it?
04:51<TrueBrain>Rubidium: okay .. to who can I send the bill? :)
04:51<TrueBrain>Alberth: only in the morning? :)
04:52<Alberth>we can always generalize later for a 2nd article :p
04:52<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: 3354XN 6?
04:52<TrueBrain>Rubidium: LOL! Touche
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05:11<TrueBrain>I .... see ... the Westwood logo!!! :O :) :) :) :) :)
05:11*TrueBrain makes his happy dance
05:11<TrueBrain>omg ...
05:12<Forked>good old westwood
05:17<Alberth>you deserve a cookie!
05:17*Alberth gives cookie to TrueBrain
05:17<TrueBrain>THANK YOU!! :)
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05:46<TrueBrain>I am so happy :) :)
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05:51<Ammler>:-)
05:51<Svish|eee>:-)
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06:44<dihedral>[11:17:13] * Alberth gives cookie to TrueBrain <- reminds me of kronk :-P
06:44<TrueBrain>good morning to you too dihedral
06:44<dihedral>hello TrueBrain
06:44<dihedral>:-)
06:44<dihedral>how is you?
06:45<TrueBrain>good :) I saw the Westwood logo, so I am all happy :)
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06:47<Alberth>dihedral: seems like a nice guy :) he also knows squirrel: '...and his ability to "speak Squirrel." ' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronk_Pepikrankenitz)
06:48<dihedral>Alberth: The Emperor's New Groove
06:48<dihedral>TrueBrain, coool :-)
06:48<Alberth>oh dear, a fan :)
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07:49<Yrol>hello every body and every mind :o) anyone working with turoise-SVN?
07:50<planetmaker>Yrol, you should ask the question you want to ask and not useless meta-questions
07:51<TrueBrain>Anyone working with a computer? Yes? Working with an OS? Yes? Working with Windows? Yes? Working with a 32bit or 64bit version newer than 98 but older than 7? Yes? Working with GUI applications? Yes? Working with OpenTTD? Yes? Working with the source of OpenTTD? Yes? Working with SVN? Yes? Working with a GUI for SVN? Yes? Working with TortoiseSVN? Yes?
07:51<TrueBrain>yeah .. can be a bit annoying :)
07:51<Yrol>in an environment, where the people i see are present, i would agree with you, planetmaker. in an environment, where only 10% or so of the gathered people probably read my thigns, i tend to first check on if it is worth typing 5463 words.
07:52<TrueBrain>Yrol: I do expect 5463 words from you now, you do understand that, right?
07:52<Yrol>oh noes :o(
07:52*planetmaker hugs TrueBrain
07:53<planetmaker>I'll copy & paste it and pipe it through wc :-)
07:53<planetmaker>Yrol, but then you expect other people to waste time with useless chatter and reading pointless questions. Is that fair?
07:54<planetmaker>After all it's you who wants obviously something answered. Not we.
07:54<blathijs>Yrol: The problem is, that of those 10%, less than 1% will probably reply to your meta questions, even while the other 9% could have answered the real question :-)
07:54<KenjiE20>plus when the 'other' people come back, they get utterly confused when they can't find the original question
07:54<@Rubidium>planetmaker: and thus we continue with useless chatter about the pointlessness of his questions...
07:54<planetmaker>hehe :-)
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07:54<TrueBrain>aren't we one happy family
07:54<TrueBrain>oh .. then Chruker joined
07:55<planetmaker>Rubidium, I still believe in (some) people being able to learn.
07:55<KenjiE20>lol TrueBrain
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07:55<Chruker>oh snap
07:55<planetmaker>yes, I know, I'm naive.
07:55<TrueBrain>I love you anyway planetmaker
07:55<planetmaker>and I remember you telling me the same things, btw, Rubidium :-)
07:56<Yrol>is it possible to get everything in svn://svn.openttd.org downloaded with turtoise-SVN? i only want to use SVN for downloading, i am in no place to uplaod changed things as i am still wet behind my cpp ears
07:56<TrueBrain>as long as you don't checkout that URL, you should be fine
07:56<TrueBrain>read a howto how SVN works
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07:57<@Rubidium>Yrol: the former is possible, just not with TortoiseSVN. But then, you don't need everything in OpenTTD's SVN repository
07:57<Yrol>TrueBrain:i am confused now, is not "checkout" the usual way to "get" the source?
07:57<TrueBrain>Yrol: well, the URL you suggest is EVERYTHING
07:57<TrueBrain>which .. well .. is a lot
07:57<Yrol>yes.
07:57<TrueBrain>and a bit useless
07:58<TrueBrain>you are better off using something like svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
07:58<TrueBrain>or for all I care: svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.7.1
07:58<Chruker>Just be sure to not checkout using the svn root. Or else you'll end up with downloading nearly 2gb of the various versions :-)
07:58<planetmaker>:-D
07:58<Yrol>okay. mmh yummy...2GB
07:58<planetmaker>you tried, Chruker ?
07:58<Chruker>yes :-)
07:58<TrueBrain>I should start banning people for trying it ....
07:58<planetmaker>:-O
07:58<planetmaker>TrueBrain, oh, no :-)
07:59<Chruker>luckily it did it with roughly 6:1 compression so it only clocked up about 300 mb download.
07:59<planetmaker>there might be good reason to allow a complete co
07:59<planetmaker>e.g. establishing a mirror
08:00<@Rubidium>Yrol: you wanted to do a checkout of the whole 'current' repository, which includes all releases since 0.3.4 or so, which is 53 releases. That would mean, together with the other branches that you'd get about 60 times more than what you need
08:00<Yrol>°nods°
08:00<KenjiE20>isn't the website also in there?
08:00<planetmaker>^
08:01<planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/
08:01<TrueBrain>planetmaker: we don't need people to establish a mirror :p
08:01<planetmaker>^ that should show what you'd get roughtly
08:01<planetmaker>TrueBrain, well... :-) so what?
08:01<TrueBrain>so I should ban people for it :p
08:01<TrueBrain>MWHAHAHA
08:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16925 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp waypoint_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r16909): guard commands more against using waypoints as stations and/or accidentally reusing waypoints for stations or vice versa.
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08:04<Yrol>hm, i just downloaded the source only, but i wont be able to easily apply those diffs then with SVN, i think.
08:05<planetmaker>Yrol, what address did you checkout?
08:05<Alberth>you apply diffs with patch, not with SVN
08:06<Yrol>planetmaker, none yet, i used the links in the last URL you posted.
08:07<Alberth>those are mercurial links, not SVN links.
08:09<Yrol>about your other question, planetmaker... i thought, IRC "is" for chatting, so yes, i kinda expect people who are there to talk.
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16926 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp:
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r16925): if checking whether a station can be adjoined, don't check
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: whether 'the other station you have already found' to be valid but the station
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: that you just found. Especially because you won't have found as station until
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: you have found one.
08:14<Noldo>wwwhat?
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08:41<OwenS>planetmaker: I can think of a worse thing to do. A full git-svn mirror :p
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08:54<Ammler>what a comment :-D
08:55<TrueBrain>in my mind I put tons of worse things in a row
08:55<TrueBrain>decided I should not share most of them :p
08:57-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
08:57<Ammler>(I meant the comment from rubi)
08:59<@Belugas>hello
08:59<TrueBrain>euh .. when did Rubidium last talk ...
08:59<TrueBrain>howdie Belugas :p
09:00<dihedral>TrueBrain, Rubidium mostly talks with his commit messages :-P
09:00<TrueBrain>dihedral: ssttttt :p
09:00<@Belugas>5 minutes ago, somewhere else, TrueBrain
09:00<@Belugas>55
09:00<dihedral>42
09:00<@Belugas>damned keyboard
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09:01<@Rubidium>Belugas: lies!
09:04<@Belugas>hum?
09:04<@Belugas>you dare call me a liar???
09:04<@Belugas>this calls for retaliation!
09:04<@Belugas>or somethng like that...
09:05<@Rubidium>58:59 before TB asked his question I 'talked' in this channel
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09:05<@Rubidium>but then when I said 'Belugas: lies!' I talked 0:00 ago ;)
09:06<@Belugas>hehe
09:06<Alberth>you also spoke at the forum
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09:18<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=804818#p804818 <-- I want to see Rubidium proposal implemented NOW!
09:19<planetmaker>May I be so demanding? ;)
09:20<OwenS>lool
09:20<Noldo>of cource you may, provided that you are the implementor
09:21<OwenS>Noldo: I've done it but it won't let me commit. Some silly message about "no changes"
09:21<Alberth>try pressing 'save' in your editor first :p
09:21<planetmaker>Noldo, let me show you you a working implementation: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/summary
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09:35<@Belugas>mmh... sounds like sarcasmometre not working totally...
09:35<Yrol>glx. its really all about how to install things °sighs° i just reinstalled the whole compiling environment to different and separate directories and now, for the first time in daaays, it worked :o)))
09:50<Markk>This junction can handle dual-headed trains at 160km/h with no problem: http://cdn.solidfiles.net/i/7a8ab52f42eeb3768fc0df717746ee07.png
09:50<Markk>WHat do you guys think?
09:50<Markk>:)
09:51<Yrol>too big?
09:51<@Rubidium>Yrol: you installed stuff on Windows without rebooting in between, right?
09:52<Markk>Yrol: Can you make it smaller with the same capacity and handle of speed?
09:52<Markk>I think it was a little too small
09:52<Markk>You can make it bigger if you want faster trains
09:53<Yrol>(Rubidium) i rebooted a few times now and then, but the baseproblem was the various folders with sdk-things
09:55<Yrol>(Markk) im just thinking, it is a bit too big to fit into a map, you kinda can only use it in special maps which are only made for such constructions, aye? and without some kind of blueprintsystem (ability to create schemata and use them instead of rebuilding the whole thing ) in place ( yet ) it would take ages to build it more than once on a regular base
09:57<Markk>Nah, took like, 10m
09:57<Markk>From scrap
09:57<Markk>Had a little bit boring at work, so tried this
09:58<Yrol>however... it looks amazing :o) i am having big problems with the whole railplanning and all that signalling. gladly, PBS is there now! :o))
09:58<Markk>Haha
09:58<Markk>Yeah
09:58<Markk>PBS is love
09:58<Markk>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Junctionary_-_All
09:58<Markk>Look at that
09:58<Markk>They're bigger and more complex
09:58<@Belugas>haaa... the good old times when pbs was not there... how fun it was back then...
09:59<Markk>Haha
10:00<Yrol>hm, Markk, as it seems, that you have a bit of knowledge... i have a tiny problem with a station near a city which undertunnels it. lets see, if i get a screenshot uplodaded somewhere
10:00<Markk>Use solidfiles.com
10:00<Markk>I can look at it
10:00<Markk>:)
10:00<Markk>Upload the savegame otherwise
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10:02<OwenS>Markk: Many #ottdc junctions are huge because of balancing (or unabalncing in the SML case) in order to meet our huuge loads
10:02<Markk>Yeah
10:03<planetmaker>and because of the doubling in order to keep a constant signal density of 1 / 2 tiles
10:03<OwenS>And because often they grow organically when they start to die under pressure
10:04<planetmaker>I wouldn't say it happens often. Only with bad builders :-P
10:04<Yrol>hmmmm "You have asked Firefox to connect
10:04<Yrol>securely to solidfiles.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
10:04<Yrol>"
10:04<Markk>Use the fallback-uploader
10:04<Markk>(It's under the usual)
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10:06<Yrol>(Markk) here is my station http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/259/yroldenjeahtransports04.png
10:06<Markk>Mkay
10:06<Yrol>how can i make sure, that if a train needs servicing, it would take the depot in the station?
10:07<Markk>What's the problem
10:07<Markk>That's not a good stationlayout if you ask me btw
10:07<Markk>Oh
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10:08<Markk>You can't do that if a train has taken up the platform in the middle
10:08<@Belugas>hey!... let go my platform, you dirty train!!
10:08<Markk>:D
10:10<Yrol>(Markk) i am not a openttd-hardcoreplayer :o) i know that there are prolly 5 better ways to do such a station. yes, that i know about, but... there seems to be a priorityproblem too, the train never would go to that depot, ( imgaine the other depot being not there ) but actually to a depot at the other station ( some 200 tiles away ) because the train doesnt "see" that depot as it is too many tiles away from the statiosn entrance. ( i dont know if that range
10:10<Markk>DOn't know about that, ask here instead
10:10<Markk>I have too go btw
10:11<Markk>Cya guise
10:11<Yrol>bye Markk
10:13<Yrol>is there somewhere a description of how a train decides to which depot it will go? does it have to do with railpenalties?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>honestly... what a silly station...
10:14<Yrol>its noted :o)
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10:15<Yrol>does that devalidate my question?
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10:16<Eddi|zuHause>why would i care about your question? :p
10:16<Alberth>Yrol: most likely the pathfinder finds one.
10:17<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) because a personal disposition should not be taken into account?
10:20<Yrol>Alberth, yes. but how? it seems, that, if the train decides it has to go to a depot, it looks around within a certain radius of tiles ( or a specific penatlylimit ) and if within that radius it cant see a depot, it looks for the next one
10:20<planetmaker>14 tiles
10:20<@Belugas>the fun of ottd is not to have the best station/junctin/network according to the others, but to experiment and find the proper setup suited for your own needs
10:20<@Belugas>my opinion
10:21<@Belugas>"Am I good?"....
10:21<Alberth>Yrol: "..it looks for the next one" <-- I think it simply tries again some time later. Not sure about that though.
10:21*planetmaker pats Belugas . Yes, you're a good boy :-P
10:21<Yrol>(Belugas) exactly. i build not by "website-galleries of the msot useful stations" but by my own preferences.
10:21<@Belugas>purrrrrr purrrrrrr
10:25<Yrol>planetmaker, but railwaypenalties are also taken into the search? so a depot which is nearer but at the end of a station would still not be used, instead a similar depot at the beginning of a station would be used, if within 14 tiles?
10:26<planetmaker>no idea
10:27<@Belugas>yeeeekk... that sounds like precise micro-management to me
10:28<@Belugas>why not put depots before and after stations?
10:28<planetmaker>also, I don't care. If a train needs servicing, I give it explicit orders to do so when and where.
10:29<@Belugas>hey Train, time to go for your poopooo
10:29<@Belugas>ho.. shit... that's a train... not a kid...
10:29<Alberth>Yrol: a pathfinder uses those penalties, so I suppose so (2 times).
10:29*Belugas ducks
10:30<Alberth>not that I care, I trust a train will find a suitable depot.
10:30<Yrol>Belugas, in the provided screenshot, thats easy, i jsut wold set it up right or left of the track in front of the station, between those two signals. but, when i build 4 or more tracks ( 2 rightway, 2 leftway ) i get into problems, as then it may be, that the depot again is beyond the 14 tiles limit
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10:32<Yrol>basically, i just build along without any "ridiculous tilecounting" , but do so, if something seems not to work
10:32<@Belugas>that's the fun with that game, everyone plays it the way he feels the best :D
10:32<Yrol>yup :o)
10:34<@Belugas>my son loves planting trees before placing a station. I told him it was useless, he does not care ;)
10:34<@Belugas>he just likes doing it
10:35<Yrol>it gives a station a nice scent, so more passengers will gather there, or, the workers at the coalmine wil lwork faster and more happy.
10:35<Markk>:D
10:36<@Belugas>someone should create a grf for vineyards and boots where they are selling wine...
10:37<@Belugas>mmh... didn't George created a beer factory for hotels?
10:37<Yrol>nah... then the wine tastes like leather. it has to be stomped barefeet
10:38<Yrol>oh. .you meant "booths", not "boots"
10:38<Markk>:D
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10:39<Alberth>could be a nice replacement for a farm
10:39<Markk>:)
10:39<@Belugas>ooops... booths
10:39<@Belugas>indeed Alberth :)
10:40<Yrol>mmh yes... and sean connery tends to it as a lil tiny stickfigure ( when do we finally get pedestrians in openttd? )
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10:47<Yrol>°waves° thanks for the help, see you...
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10:49<+glx>[16:34:17] <@Belugas> my son loves planting trees before placing a station. I told him it was useless, he does not care ;) <-- it's a good method to make the town happy before building :)
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10:50<@Rubidium>Belugas: you still haven't understand that he wants to live in a tree house?
10:50-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.123.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:52<@Belugas>he has already one, and a huge one that is...
10:52<@Belugas>all hand made, with 4"x4" wood beams
10:52<@Belugas>spoiled bratt..
10:53<@Belugas>glx, can you raise your rating in a town where you ahve not buit anythuing yet?
10:53<@Belugas>i'm not sure... i'm really asking
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11:35<@Belugas>technical documentation... how much do i love doing that (NOT!)
11:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16927 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp lang/english.txt): -Change: make the 'there is no AI' error message translatable
11:44*planetmaker goes translating the new string :-)
11:55<Liza>meowoyawn :x
11:55<Liza>another day :)
12:06<@Belugas>tell me about it :S
12:06<@Belugas>ho.. no.. please... don't!
12:07<Sacro>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=recursionz
12:07<Sacro>erm
12:07<Sacro>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=recursion even
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12:55<fjb_>Belugas: You can.
12:56<frosch123>yes, he can?
12:56<fjb_>Yes.
12:56<fjb_>Moin frosch123, btw.
12:57<frosch123>moin :)
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12:58<@Belugas>no i can't
12:58<@Belugas>and i wont
13:01<fjb_>You can raise your rating in a town where you have not build anything yet. At least per bribing (if you don't get caught).
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13:05<Chruker>What feature is Zutty using to display the lines on this image: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=44456
13:06<+glx>he just build lines
13:06<@Rubidium>he probably made a lot of signs and then zoomed out very far and then resized
13:07-!-OwenSX is now known as OwenS
13:07<+glx>ha yes, signs are the other option
13:08<Chruker>argh rats, I thought it was something fancier
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13:24<Nemoder>I'm working on a server mod but I'm a little confused with the code, if I want to do something like SubtractMoneyFromCompany() how do I update clients that this has happened, or is it not possible without altering clients?
13:25<planetmaker>the latter
13:25<Nemoder>:(
13:26<planetmaker>changing gameplay always requires server and client to be of the same version and source base
13:26<Ammler>Alberth: can't we use a special sprite instead of the X for the close issue?
13:26<Ammler>#3033
13:29<Alberth>Euhm, I don't understand that question, isn't the X a sprite? and what is a 'special sprite'?
13:30<Ammler>well, we can't change that "x" but we could make a special "x" for the close
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13:33<Ammler>oh, is it only on old windows systems?
13:33<@Rubidium>Alberth: yeah, lets make the close window sprite a special sprite
13:34<Alberth>Ammler: Apparently, we can :)
13:34*planetmaker isn't sure about the readings on the irony detector
13:36*Rubidium proposes string code 0xAD
13:37<planetmaker>:-)
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13:40<planetmaker>Not sure, right now the "x" right from the alphabet is used, Rubidium, Alberth ?
13:41<planetmaker>Excuse my ignorance, how do the other string codes go into a font?
13:42<planetmaker>I guess they just are to be added... like the other symbols... or does OpenTTD define them independent of the font?
13:42<planetmaker>Hm...
13:42<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=StringCodes
13:45<Ammler>I guess, it would become a Action5 sprtie
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16928 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by SmatZ
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Yexo
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 6 changes by agenthh
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@Rubidium>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/?1=58,90,143 <- for what it's worth
13:47<planetmaker>:-D
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13:47<planetmaker>hm... I guess that's it then... already... hm... and someone copy&pasted.
13:48<frosch123>turn it into a xp-like big red cross, and i will never consider using opengfx
13:49<planetmaker>he
13:49<Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/xxx-enlarged.png xX at a sign, at an edit box, and at the close box
13:50<Alberth>(with OpenGFX set)
13:50<frosch123>how could planetmaker confuse "..." with "x" ?
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13:51<@Rubidium>Alberth: all those X-es are definitely the same ;)
13:51<Alberth>Yeah, I thought so already :)
13:51<planetmaker>same width
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13:54<planetmaker>uhm... but... the X has the same width as the cross in the window title shown in the bottom of that screenshot of Alberth's
13:55<Alberth>oh noes, somebody made a symmetrical X for the close-cross
13:55<planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3033/getfile/4457/closebox_overview.png <--- but yeah... one wider than original
13:56<Alberth>svn blame src/widgets/close-cross.png :p
13:58<planetmaker>hm... but using another character than the default x makes sense... you want a cross and not an X :-)
13:59<Ammler>I am fully confused, can't determine, what is fun, what is serious.
13:59*Alberth agrees with planetmaker
14:00<Alberth>Ammler: as far as I can see, there are 3 'x' thingies, the lower case letter, the upper case letter and the closebox cross. see my xxx-enlarged.png
14:01<Ammler>Alberth: those are already in the base grf?
14:01<Ammler>those 3 rubi showed
14:02<Alberth>I hope the former two are in the font that you use.
14:02<planetmaker>Alberth, yes, seems like
14:02<Ammler>so we just have to make the close "x" smaller, right?
14:02<Alberth>that's one of the options I mentioned in 3033, yes
14:03<planetmaker>The "close x" is sprite #153 as Rubi showed
14:03<Ammler>he, well, that should be possible, I thought, it belongs to the font
14:03<planetmaker>s/153/143/
14:04<Ammler>but if we would make it smaller, your new widget windows might look uglier with opengfx?
14:05*Rubidium wonders what's the point in writing Rubi; tab completion gets the whole nick much faster and if you've studied a bit you'd know the proper abbreviation of the word
14:05<planetmaker>Ammler, not really. But it would be a non-symmetrical cross :-)
14:05<Alberth>euh? nested widget windows ask the sprite for its size and adapts to it.
14:06<planetmaker>it would rather solve it when implemented for that widget :-)
14:06<Ammler>we should just try then :-)
14:06<planetmaker>hm, indeed.
14:06<+glx>Rubidium: do you hl on Rb ?
14:06<Alberth>you can see that with the currently converted windows that do show the wide X
14:07<@Rubidium>glx: no :)
14:09<@Rubidium>I haven't been bored/bothered enough to set a highlight on that
14:12<frosch123>it is stupid to highlight on short stuff like e.g. pm :p
14:12<planetmaker>:-)
14:13<Ammler>dunno, if he does, but he should ;-)
14:13<planetmaker>and no, it didn't work here
14:13<Ammler>:-)
14:13<planetmaker>but it's not used as often really... just English time sucks
14:20<Ammler>:-)
14:20<planetmaker>Alberth, is there already a window which is fully converted?
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14:20<planetmaker>maybe the rail toolbar?
14:20<Ammler>is it a copyright violation to use the same x as ttd?
14:20<Alberth>town directory
14:20<Alberth>signal gui
14:21<Alberth>intro-screen :D
14:21<planetmaker>haha :-) Ok. Thanks
14:21<Ammler>no window on the intro?
14:21<Alberth>just for Ammler: s/screen/window/
14:22<Ammler>?
14:22<planetmaker>Ammler, the main menu has no close box...
14:22<Ammler>can you close the intro-screen :P
14:23<Alberth>yes, there is a big yellow bar at the bottom with 'quit' on it. Strange place for a close button, but he, it works
14:24<planetmaker>:-P
14:24<planetmaker>Actually something I sometimes which for - but not _G_UI related: command+w leaves the current game :-)
14:24<planetmaker>but I guess, if I want that, it's my damn task :-P
14:26<planetmaker>or rather Strg+W on other systems then :-)
14:30<Ammler>ok, I have the X back, shall I commit?
14:31<planetmaker>opengfx?
14:31<Ammler>yes
14:32<planetmaker>I don't mind :-) And yes, looks better, and that's what it is about
14:32<planetmaker>we can still revert it when the GUI is changed completely to the new system :-)
14:33<fjb_>Apropos GUI, is there a way to switch between a fullsreen X11 application and the desktop?
14:33<planetmaker>fjb_, your configured shortcut key...
14:34<fjb_>Now I must find a place where to configure such thing.
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14:37<@Rubidium>depending on how the desk is located, a fierce sweeping motion over the desk will bring you from the fullscreen X11 application to the desktop
14:37<planetmaker>the usual thing I do is go to the task bar and choose an empty desktop :-)
14:38<fjb_>Rubidium: My desk is way too cluttered. :-)
14:38<fjb_>Usual full screen applications don't show a task bar.
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14:40<planetmaker>fjb_, my task bar becomes visible, if I approach the lower screen border...
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14:42<fjb_>Some games catch that event (flight simutaors and such).
14:43<planetmaker>right. I guess these things are excluded on workplace PCs :-)
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14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16929 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Change: There is no point in not randomising engine introduction-date before 1922. Instead disable the randomisation for the first two years after game-start, so you do not have to wait for the first engine.
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15:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16930 /trunk/src/ (68 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: more StringID name unification and grouping
15:40<@Belugas>hhoooo.... who remembers the very first mp3 song they downloaded ?
15:41<@Belugas>mine was a rammstein song, with napster
15:41<OwenS>Ooh thats a good one. I don't know
15:41<Alberth>I remember not downloading any mp3 song
15:42<OwenS>I'd hazard a guess of it being Eiffel 65's Blue though, judging by how long ago it would be
15:42<@Belugas>Alberth, i always buy records of the artitsts that really turn me on. Got a big pile of cds at home...
15:43<@Belugas>OwenS, got me on unknown grounds
15:45<OwenS>Huh?
15:47<@Belugas>Eiffel 65 is not within my music scope
15:47<@Belugas>like...
15:47<@Belugas>no idea what it is
15:48<OwenS>'Eiffel 65 was a Grammy-nominated Italian electronic dance three-piece group, formed in the late 1990s and best known for their international hit "Blue (Da Ba Dee)". Their other hit singles include "Move Your Body" and "Too Much of Heaven"' (Wikipedia)
15:49<OwenS>Not too much to my liking these days... My tastes have changed
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15:55<@Belugas>they all do :)
15:55<@Belugas>so do mine
15:56<@Belugas>somehow, Slayer is not as appealing as it was back then ^_^
15:56<Pygma>Oh Blue, I remember that
15:56<Pygma>Though no idea what my first download was
15:57<+glx>OwenS: too bad now I have the song in my head
15:59<OwenS>glx: Solution is to play music :P
16:01<Alberth>typically another song than the one in your head :p
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16:01<@Belugas>play music!! Yeah !! Good idea!!!
16:01<@Belugas>let's go home and grab a guit!!!!
16:02<@Belugas>or a synht or a sax or a flute or whatever
16:06<OwenS>I should have said listen to music :p
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16:10<@Belugas>gnegnegne... you said PLAY!!
16:10<@Belugas>i like to PLAY
16:10<@Belugas>toum te doum
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16:56<fonsinchen>what happened to Station::IsBuoy()?
16:56<fonsinchen>is there a replacement somewhere?
16:57<planetmaker>waypoint
16:58<fonsinchen>lots of changes there lately ...
16:59<planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/6bde851ce515
17:01<fonsinchen>that's not the one removing Station::IsBuoy(), but thanks ...
17:05<Liza>fonsinchen, typo, Station::IsBoy()
17:05<fonsinchen>Liza, please ...
17:05<Liza>hm?
17:06<@SmatZ>:-p
17:06-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-214-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
17:06<@SmatZ>:)
17:06<fonsinchen>So if an order has OT_GOTO_STATION I can be sure that it's no buoy now, correct?
17:06<@SmatZ>yes
17:07-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:11<planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/324cc10739fd <-- sorry, was this revision @ fonsinchen
17:13<fonsinchen>and if (st->facilities & FACIL_WAYPOINT) == 0) I can be sure a BaseStation st is a real station, correct?
17:13-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-58-103.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:16<planetmaker>sounds reasonable,
17:16<fonsinchen>thanks
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17:50<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:50<PeterT>hi
17:51<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT
17:51<PeterT>did i post this correctly? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3054
17:52<PeterT>Anyone?
17:53<+glx>missing crash.log and crash.dmp
17:54<PeterT>where can i get that?
17:54<+glx>in install dir
17:55<PeterT>can i edit that?
17:55<PeterT>the log i sent
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17:56<Nite_Owl>easier to just attach the files
17:56<PeterT>yes, edit it, and attach it
17:56<PeterT>i just re installed, lets see if it still does it
17:56<+glx>you can't edit, but you can attach in a comment
17:59<PeterT>there ya go
17:59<PeterT>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3054
18:00<PeterT>better?
18:01<PeterT>going to sleep, there is your crash report
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18:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16931 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r16922): one semicolon too much
18:03<OwenS>"C:\Windows\system32\avgrsstx.dll handle: 6C1B0000 size: 11952 crc: FEFAE0A9 date: 2009-07-11 16:36:26" <- Why do I think OpenTTD didn't load that?
18:04<@SmatZ>why should it?
18:05<@SmatZ>is that some antivirus library?
18:06<OwenS>AVG8 apparently injects it into every process
18:06<+glx>it is, but the log shows all loaded modules IIRC
18:07<OwenS>In other words theres foreign code you can't look at inside your process. Sigh.
18:08<+glx>well you can't look in windows dll either by default
18:08<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: you're better of using Station::IsExpected(<base station>)
18:08-!-KUDr [~doctor@203.253.broadband9.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
18:08<fonsinchen>for what?
18:08<fonsinchen>ah
18:08<@Rubidium>to check whether it's a real station
18:09<OwenS>glx: MS will give you full debug symbols. AVG? I doubt it
18:09<+glx>anyway the crash is not in avg ;)
18:09<fonsinchen>nice, thanks
18:10<Xaroth>the address points to the ottd executable
18:10<+glx>it's an assert in ottd as said in the log
18:10<OwenS>And wheres your proof there isn't a pointer bug inside the AVG executable corrupting RAM?
18:11<Xaroth>C0000005 at 0040DA6A
18:11<Xaroth>openttd.exe handle: 00400000 size: 2630656
18:11<Xaroth>I have a hunch that 00400000 + 2630656 < 0040DA6A
18:11<OwenS>It's probably not, but it's still annoying when code is injected into you without warning. At least when it's analyzing you from another process bugs have a harder time trashing your RAM
18:12-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-58-103.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:12<@Rubidium>AVG probably gets loaded because it's loaded into some core Windows dll
18:12<Nite_Owl>AVG 8 has a tendency to do that
18:12<OwenS>No, they're injecting the DLL from their own process
18:12-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-58-103.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:12<Xaroth>I think that's the whole concept of anti virus ...
18:13-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEbba2.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:14<OwenS>Most AV software scans you from it's own process
18:14<Xaroth>Things are more accessible if you're inside of it ;)
18:15<+glx>I hate when pointers are involved
18:15<+glx>I cannot get any info
18:15<Nite_Owl>AVG 8 and Symantec/Norton tend to be a lot more intrusive into your system then others
18:16<+glx>norton is worse
18:16<OwenS>Couldn't OpenTTD be built so on a crash it calls the minidump writer code?
18:17<+glx>OwenS: it does, nut we don't dump the ram
18:17-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17<Nite_Owl>they stick their anti-virus tendrils into all sorts of places that are not necessary
18:17<+glx>dmp would be too big
18:19-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
18:19<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: there is a fly ON my screen!!!!
18:19<TrueBrain>(oeh, that is just mean)
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>yay for you :p
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>did you try hunting it with your mouse?
18:20<TrueBrain>haha, he didn't like that :p
18:23<Nite_Owl>Use you chopsticks Mr. Muyaki
18:23<Nite_Owl>*your
18:24*OwenS wonders how the x86 jit is coming
18:25<Nite_Owl>Hmmm - maybe that was a bit too obscure (as usual)
18:25-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-214-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:26<TrueBrain>OwenS: _very_ good
18:26<TrueBrain>I saw the WestWood logo today :)
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16932 /trunk/src/lang/ (51 files in 2 dirs):
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: all languages - update for latest commits which moved around lots of strings
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by Yexo
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by CyberKenny
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changes by kkmic
18:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
18:26<OwenS>:D
18:26<OwenS>I haven't seen that in a while thinking about it
18:27<TrueBrain>I now only figured out it has a custom INT8
18:27<TrueBrain>(dune2 sets all INT via INT21 call, but INT8 it writes directly in the IVT/IDT)
18:27<OwenS>heh lol
18:27<TrueBrain>and somehow it breaks ... dunno why :(
18:27<TrueBrain>but anyway, I solved all my overlay problems by simply calculating a XOR CRC of the code I was about to execute, and match it :)
18:27<TrueBrain>works PERFECT :)
18:28<OwenS>At this point I'm wondering if it would have been easier for you to just bung in the Bochs BIOS code and emulate the hardware :p
18:28<TrueBrain>considered it, well, DosBox in this case (as it contains the DOS stuff too)
18:28<OwenS>I suppose in this case DosBox yes :p
18:28<TrueBrain>but the DosBox code SUCKS ASS!!!!!!
18:29<TrueBrain>one line they write 0xb7, the next 0xB7
18:29<TrueBrain>and that is just the start of the uglyness they call code :s
18:29<OwenS>lol
18:29<@Rubidium>be happy the don't mix 100 and 099 ;)
18:29<TrueBrain>really, it is a disaster to read their code
18:29<@Rubidium>hmm, rather 077 ;)
18:29<OwenS>I'm personally partial to 0xB7 style
18:30<TrueBrain>I use that myself too
18:30<TrueBrain>but I don't care what you do
18:30<TrueBrain>just .. 1 style
18:30<TrueBrain>readable code :s
18:30<@Rubidium>I don't think OpenTTD's style is uniform either
18:30<OwenS>And make it so a tidier works fine on it if your style doesn't match mine closely =P
18:31-!-goodger [~ben@host217-44-220-143.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:31<@Rubidium>oh, I'm certain OpenTTD's style isn't uniform
18:32<TrueBrain>but okay, I can look past poorly written code
18:32<TrueBrain>it is .. acceptable
18:32<TrueBrain>that you use in one case << 4
18:32<TrueBrain>and in the other * 16
18:32<TrueBrain>I can live with that
18:32<TrueBrain>then I hopen a file, and I read:
18:32<TrueBrain>#define VGAREG_SEQU_DATA 0x3c5
18:32<TrueBrain>so I think, wow, useful
18:32<TrueBrain>lets look in the code for VGAREG_SEQU_DATA
18:33<TrueBrain>nowhere to be found
18:33<OwenS>lol
18:33<TrueBrain>everywhere they use HARDCODED values again
18:33<TrueBrain>WHY DEFINE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE
18:33<TrueBrain>grr
18:33<TrueBrain>but well, okay, maybe they are in the middle of going from one method to the other
18:33<TrueBrain>fine fine
18:33<TrueBrain>absolute lack of spaces .. fine .. k&r has that too
18:34-!-KUDr [~doctor@203.253.broadband9.iol.cz] has quit []
18:34<TrueBrain> val=((val >> vga.config.data_rotate) | (val << (8-vga.config.data_rotate)));
18:34<TrueBrain>then I start to wonder what I am reading .. but okay ... possible
18:35<OwenS>I'm surprised I actually understand what VGA component they're implementing there
18:35<TrueBrain>IO_Write(0x3ce,0x8);Bit8u mask=128>>(x&7);IO_Write(0x3cf,mask);
18:36<TrueBrain>but those lines .. those lines just do it for me
18:36<TrueBrain>in reality the IO_Write just calls a function which puts something (well, those 2 combined) in a struct they keep
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>that looks funny ;)
18:36<TrueBrain>it is such a FUCKED UP way of doing it
18:36<TrueBrain>unreadable, and COMPLETELY unclear what the fuck is going on
18:36<TrueBrain>0x8 ... yeah ... that ... sure ...
18:36<TrueBrain>so DosBox, great code, I am VERY happy they created it
18:36<TrueBrain>codewise ..... not so much
18:37<OwenS>Perhaps look at DosEmu?
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18:40<TrueBrain>hmm .. nice .. tnx OwenS :)
18:40<OwenS>DosEmu > DosBox in the case you're running on i386 (On anything else, inc x86_64, you don't have v8086 mode and thats a moto point)
18:40-!-goodger [~ben@host81-153-25-121.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:40<TrueBrain>I didn't understand what you were trying to say
18:40<TrueBrain>but good for you :p
18:41<Liza>but does it have c64 mode?
18:42<TrueBrain>oh my .. it is still here :S
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>i tried DosEmu once, but it didn't work very well...
18:42<Liza>oh, you don't want me here...
18:42<Liza>;_;
18:42-!-Liza [~lisalar@n-17-62.sbnett.no] has quit []
18:42<OwenS>DosEmu uses the "v8086" processor mode to emulate stuff. This only works in protected (not long) mode
18:42<TrueBrain>ah, so not on my CPU :p
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>so... i finished watching firefly, what is there left to do now in this world?
18:43<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: good serie .. good serie
18:43<OwenS>It works on 64-bit processors with an i386 os :p
18:43<OwenS>Agreed on that
18:43<OwenS>And, Eddi|zuHause, Serenity? :p
18:43<TrueBrain>OwenS: true .. so not working here ;)
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, of course...
18:43<TrueBrain>Serentiy is just a double episode :p
18:44<TrueBrain>bah, dosemu has stuff in asm
18:44<TrueBrain>harder to read
18:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: watch 'Dead like me'?
18:44<OwenS>Serenity is good though. I have it on BluRay =)
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>already done that...
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>but didn't they want to do a film about that, too?
18:45<TrueBrain>movie sucks
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have never seen that one...
18:45<TrueBrain>nothing ... interesting
18:47<TrueBrain>I btw love the logo of DOSBox :p
18:48<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: watch the full 'series' of "As the world turns" and "The bold and the beautiful"
18:48-!-paul_ [~paul@host86-131-45-138.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure i know these...
18:48<Xaroth>I doubt you want to know those
18:48<TrueBrain>LOL!
18:48<TrueBrain>SOAPS!!!! :)
18:49<@Rubidium>well, it's 'only' 19.000 episodes
18:49<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: Try "Goede tijden, slechte tijden" .
18:50<OwenS>It's beaten by the american "Guiding Light", the world's single longest narritive, which predates the TV, and which comes to an end in September, adding an element of slight doability to it
18:50<OwenS>(Well, would be doable if all the epsiodes existed)
18:50<dihedral>@seen Yex*
18:50<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Yex* could be Yexo (1 day, 1 hour, 41 minutes, and 59 seconds ago) or Yexo_ (3 weeks, 6 days, 11 hours, 21 minutes, and 48 seconds ago)
18:51<OwenS>Theres also a webcomic somewhere with an episode for every day in since 9999BC
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>i was thinking of doctor who, which also must be like 700 episodes... but i didn't find a full pack anywhere ;)
18:51-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.166.167.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
18:51<TrueBrain>dihedral: go to bed :p
18:52<OwenS>Baah. Dr Who isn't proper sci-fi :p
18:52<Nite_Owl>Have you ever seen the very early Doctor Who episodes?
18:53<OwenS>You mean the edutainment ones?
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think they were ever shown in germany
18:53<Nite_Owl>When the Doctor was a Grandfather traveling around with his Granddaughter
18:53<OwenS>For British Sci-Fi... nothing beats Red Dwar
18:53<OwenS>f
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>the sad thing is... there is only one german sci-fi series...
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18:55<OwenS>Red Dwarf and Dr Who are the only Brit Sci-Fi series I know... The first is a sitcom and the second so soft it makes Star Wars look like rock
18:55<TrueBrain>OwenS: dosemu has less comments, so I guess dosbox is more useful after all .. oh well :) Tomorrow I have a nice 'find the bug' day ... guess I will write a test-platform which tests all the opcodes (if they are decoded correctly, and execute correctly :p) .. never tested that :) Today I found out the documentation I used mixed loopnz and loopz ... oopsie! :p
18:55<Nite_Owl>The actor playing The Doctor in the original episodes was really bad in a physically hammy sort of way
18:56-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-58-103.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:56<@Rubidium>OwenS: it's still better sci-fi than no sci-fi
18:56<Nite_Owl>sort of like a silent film actor
18:56<OwenS>TrueBrain: Ouch
18:57<TrueBrain>OwenS: and I need to find out when INT8 is called, what is on the stack as 'cs:ip' pair :p
18:57<Nite_Owl>they ran them once as a marathon many moons ago here in the US
18:58<OwenS>TrueBrain: Generally it would be on the stack, or do you mean the code to vector to?
18:58<TrueBrain>I mean the content of those 2 values :p
18:58<OwenS>So the ones for the interrupt handler
18:58<TrueBrain>(when calling an INT, it pushes flags, cs and ip on the stack .. but INT8 comes from inside the system, so what does he push on it?)
18:59<TrueBrain>when the app does an INT it is obvious
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18:59<OwenS>Ooh of course... Int 8 will be a hardware interrupt
18:59<TrueBrain>yup
18:59<TrueBrain>timer
18:59<TrueBrain>(sorry, I considered that obvious, but it of course is not :))
18:59<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
18:59-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:59<OwenS>Sorry; I'm used to protected mode/etc where int0-31 are reserved =P
19:00<OwenS>It will push whatever the code is executing when the timer interrupt fires... aka it's random :p
19:00<TrueBrain>yeah, but I tihnk Dune2 uses the CS part to see what overlay it is executing or something
19:00<TrueBrain>not sure yet .. something fishy is going on there :p
19:00<OwenS>So... In other words... you need to reverse engineer CS:IP from the running code :P
19:00<TrueBrain>I do that all over the place .. well .. good estimates anyway :p
19:02<OwenS>I've been diagramming my processor... well, some parts end up quite messy =P: http://www98.teknetium.com/P32A_DecodeStage.pdf
19:03<TrueBrain>pdf .. do you have any idea the troubles I need to go through to just open that document?
19:04<@Rubidium>go to your neighbour?
19:04<OwenS>No. On Windows I'd understand the Adobe Reader hatred... but Linux? Okular and Evince work
19:04<OwenS>Would you prefer an ODG? :p
19:04<TrueBrain>OwenS: it is more like: download file, start kpdf (means starting KDE background shit)
19:04-!-paul__ [~paul@host86-164-184-185.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
19:05<TrueBrain>but mostly the part I need to find a tmp folder again
19:05<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: then use xpdf ;)
19:05<OwenS>Aah. I run KDE4 all the time so...
19:05<TrueBrain>looks easy enough, your PDF :P
19:06<OwenS>I haven't finished the microcode yet, so I probably have a few more lines to shove in :p
19:06<TrueBrain>I remember my final design of something simular ...
19:07<TrueBrain>I also remember that I forgot a bus between C and the ALU ...
19:07<OwenS>Heh
19:07<TrueBrain>which didn't allow me to do one microcode in the time I would want it to run
19:07<OwenS>Crap so did I! :p
19:07<OwenS>Carry should go into the C bus just to be more confusing...
19:07<TrueBrain>so it took 2 cycles more .. but worse: I had to use 7 bits for line indication of the microcode :(
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19:07<TrueBrain>hehehe :) Glad to be of some help ;)
19:08<TrueBrain>(going from 6 bits to 7 bits for just 1 microcode SUCKS!)
19:08<OwenS>Incidentally, my ALU has 3 output busses
19:08<TrueBrain>solved it by removed the HALT command .. haha :)
19:08<TrueBrain>(my english sucks)
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19:09<TrueBrain>OwenS: what will your CPU do?
19:09<OwenS>32-bit pipelined in-order RISC; nothing special other than built in fixed point primitives
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19:09<TrueBrain>you going to build it too, or just program it?
19:10<OwenS>Verilog, then FPGA
19:11<OwenS>Theres probably more complexity to go on that diagram yet for interlocks...
19:11<TrueBrain>on the list, thngs you want to avoid, number N .. :p
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19:11<TrueBrain>I love how I solved FPU opcodes ...
19:11<TrueBrain>NoSuchOpcode
19:11<TrueBrain>WHOHO! :)
19:11<OwenS>lool same
19:11<OwenS>I'm reserving opcode space for them
19:12<OwenS>Just like I'm reserving space for DIV
19:12<TrueBrain>FPU .. the most worthless piece of shit in your whole computer :p Mwhahahaha :)
19:12<TrueBrain>(design-wise, that is)
19:12<OwenS>Though I may actually manage to microprogram a slow multicycle DIV with a little bit of complexity
19:12<@Rubidium>tss... TrueBrain that's lame; just tranform the FPU opcodes into INT opcodes and say the point floated away
19:13<TrueBrain>OwenS: 8086 takes .. what .. 60 cycles to do DIV? :p
19:13<TrueBrain>OwenS: be careful, microcode is expensive :)
19:14<OwenS>TrueBrain: On an FPGA, I can just use a 512x36 dual port blockram as a 256x72 :P
19:14<OwenS>I think mine actually take longer, simply because the pipeline implies lots of stalls waiting for results :P
19:14<TrueBrain>either way .. today I build 3 boulders .. needless to say, I am going to find my bed :)
19:14<TrueBrain>OwenS: that of course is always an option ;)
19:15<OwenS>I currently have no plans for an update microcode instruction though =)
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19:15<TrueBrain>reflash it? :p
19:15<OwenS>Pretty much :P
19:15<TrueBrain>nice security risk
19:16<TrueBrain>an opcode which reads a piece of ram for its new microcode
19:16<TrueBrain>heheheh
19:16<OwenS>Not really if it's privileged
19:16<OwenS>x86 has updatable microcode
19:16<TrueBrain>yeah, by manual override
19:16<TrueBrain>not possible via software ports (not alone, anyway)
19:16<OwenS>It is. Linux does it for Intel and AMD CPUs at boot if their microcode is out of date
19:17<TrueBrain>REALLY?!
19:17<OwenS>They store microcode in RAM though, so it doesn't last
19:17<TrueBrain>as then I can fuck up a computer REALLY easy
19:17-!-Aali [~aali@84-217-30-29.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17<TrueBrain>for ever!!!! :p
19:17<TrueBrain>plug in USB, boot
19:17<TrueBrain>lalalala
19:17<OwenS>Copy from masked ROM at startup
19:17<TrueBrain>fair enough ;)
19:17<TrueBrain>so not really updatable
19:17<TrueBrain>just temporary possible to override :p
19:17<OwenS>Yeah. To fix bugs :P
19:17<TrueBrain>(update suggest permanent :p)
19:18<TrueBrain>hot-fix ;)
19:18<OwenS>Not surprising considering microcode is code (has bugs), written in an assembler (more bugs) which is horrible to work with (even more) :P
19:18<TrueBrain>written in asm?
19:18<TrueBrain>I had to do it on a whole other level :p
19:19<OwenS>Written in microassembler ;-)
19:19<TrueBrain>but yeah, it has bugs :p
19:19<TrueBrain>I had 64bit per instruction I believe ... I still shiffer by the idea
19:19<TrueBrain>no idea how I ever managed to program that bitch :p
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19:19<OwenS>I think I'll have the same. Thats why I'm gonna be hugging my microassembler :p
19:20<TrueBrain>I had to write bits .....
19:20<TrueBrain>still, besides a few ops, it worked flawless :p
19:20<OwenS>I may, to add fun, add a 16-bit "compressed code" mode like ARM Thumb :P
19:20<TrueBrain>anyway ... going to bed ... my eyes are shutting already :)
19:21<OwenS>Heh
19:21<OwenS>Night
19:21<TrueBrain>sorry OwenS, I enjoy this conversation :)
19:21<TrueBrain>but .. well ... :)
19:21<OwenS>:-)
19:21<TrueBrain>enjoy your fun .. tomorrow I am going to enjoy mine again :)
19:21<TrueBrain>Hope I can get this INT8 going correctly .... means Dune2 is almost playable :p :p (haha, like if :))
19:21<Xaroth>nn TB
19:21<Xaroth>ooo
19:21<Xaroth>Dune
19:22*Xaroth can't wait for OpenDune tbqfh.
19:22<TrueBrain>haha :)
19:22<TrueBrain>who knows .... if I ever can find enough time, and figure out the legal status of such work based on decompiled code ... ;)
19:23<TrueBrain>(well, the Dutch law is very clear on the subject ... which isn't really helping :p)
19:23<TrueBrain>oh, need sleep .. night! :)
19:24<Xaroth>isn't it possible to make a .. 'clone' ? :P
19:24<Xaroth>but good point, nn :)
19:24-!-Aali_ is now known as Aali
19:25<Xaroth>(I'd even be tempted to learn C/C++ if it concerned making a dune game :P )
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20:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16933 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#3054] (r16694): vehicles would wait "very long" when they had nothing to unload and gradual loading was disabled.
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21:12<tdev>http://ccalive.com/
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22:00<Tefad>i'm going to punch the volume knob frobber
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23:32<DaleStan>!seen fons
23:32<DaleStan>@seen fons*
23:32<@DorpsGek>DaleStan: fons* could be fonsinchen (5 hours, 22 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), fonsinchen1 (13 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 45 minutes, and 26 seconds ago), or fonso (34 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 45 minutes, and 21 seconds ago)
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 24 00:00:47 2009