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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-25

---Logopened Sat Jul 25 00:00:55 2009
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03:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16946 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Doc: Adding docs for some string parameter manipulation functions.
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04:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16947 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use TileArea instead of train_tile, trainst_w and trainst_h.
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05:59<HackaLittleBit>TrueBrain: pls check lines 1697 1698 and 1703 train_cmd.cpp need some style improvement :)
06:00<TrueBrain>not a core developer, can't help you there :)
06:00<HackaLittleBit>well maybe Rubidium:
06:00<Xaroth>TrueBrain: got OpenDune running yet? :P
06:01<TrueBrain>Xaroth: haha
06:01<TrueBrain>getting there ;)
06:01<Xaroth>woot :P
06:01*Xaroth can't wait
06:01<TrueBrain>hahaha :)
06:02<TrueBrain>if you in the meantime ask WestWood permission for it
06:02<Xaroth>Didn't they merge like 50 times already?
06:02<TrueBrain>good luck?
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06:07<@Rubidium>HackaLittleBit: I'm sure you can find more places that need style improvement and that you can make a nice diff out of that ;)
06:07<HackaLittleBit>Ok Ill send you in the end of the day :)
06:08<Alberth>submit it to
06:13<HackaLittleBit>Ok Ok, got the message :) See Yah guys
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06:14<TrueBrain>morning OwenS
06:14<TrueBrain>got any sleep?
06:14<OwenS>I decided I'd just turn the machine off :P
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06:25<TrueBrain>once every few weeks HackaLittleBit joins and asks that question
06:25<TrueBrain>he gets the same answer every time
06:25<TrueBrain>and leaves :p
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06:38<Alberth>I have a copy of the sources just for collecting doc string changes, maybe we should suggest something along those lines next time :)
06:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16948 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_order.cpp station_cmd.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: some code reductions and usage of wrapper functions
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06:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16949 /trunk/src/ (openttd.h table/settings.h toolbar_gui.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: unify the way the DisplayOption enums are written
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06:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16950 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate waypoint + station sign drawing
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07:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16951 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt toolbar_gui.cpp): -Change: order the strings in the options dropdown slightly more logical
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07:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16952 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use a label for the world population in the town directory window.
07:51<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: I am still suprised you haven't told your problems with dune2 :p
07:53<Forked>mmmm.. dune2
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07:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16953 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Use SetStringParameters() for simple parameterized strings.
07:57<Alberth>TrueBrain: she doesn't want to spoil your fun :)
07:57<TrueBrain>not many people can do that ;)
07:57<TrueBrain>I respect that :)
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08:12<LadyHawk>[25/7][12:51:47] <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: I am still suprised you haven't told your problems with dune2 :p <<< hmm?
08:13<TrueBrain>well, you keep on saying that :)
08:13<LadyHawk>if ur talking bout that bug, it's such a big one it ruins the gameplay if you know about it.. so i wont say it unless someone really wants to know =P
08:14<TrueBrain>that is what I mean :) I respect that, not many people in here can do that :)
08:18<LadyHawk>dune2 is one of the best games of its kind.. it deserves credit, not spoilers =)
08:18<TrueBrain>I totally agree
08:28<TrueBrain>B10. A harvester, when full and showing the "Awaiting pickup" message,
08:28<TrueBrain>will sometimes take a very long time before it is picked up.
08:28<TrueBrain>S10. The answer isn't, as might be expected, to build more Carryalls. The
08:28<TrueBrain>problem here is that your system is too close to the minimum required
08:28<TrueBrain>memory. Try exiting and running from a boot disk with no TSRs loaded.
08:28<TrueBrain>I love thisone :)
08:29<LadyHawk>never noticed the long pickup times
08:29<LadyHawk>i always just build 2 carryals
08:29<LadyHawk>1 to bring a harvester, the other to drop it off
08:30<TrueBrain>I have had those problems in the past
08:30<TrueBrain>not in DosBox :p
08:30<LadyHawk>in early missions you can get carryals too, block a factory off so only a carryal can take the unit out.. do it often enough and carryal stays
08:30<TrueBrain>yeah, always a good trick .. close a building with other buildings ;)
08:31<TrueBrain>I love the detail the game put in it .. that they took care of things like that :)
08:31<LadyHawk>i never completely block a factory off tho.. sometimes no carryal will come
08:31<TrueBrain>but okay .. in the meantime my vehicles still can't move :s
08:31<TrueBrain>they rotate to the top left corner, and that is it
08:31<LadyHawk>i cant remember if they move themselves to attack enemies
08:32<LadyHawk>i dont think they do, do they
08:32<TrueBrain>not that I know of
08:33<LadyHawk>which house do you prefer to play with?
08:33<TrueBrain>doesn't matter how or what in a game, I like Red :)
08:34<LadyHawk>i like atreides... but the harkonnen are easiest with their devastators
08:34<LadyHawk>first time i played with them i thougth they were useless cuz they're so slow.. i sent them on a suicide mission
08:34<LadyHawk>when i looked again, both of them were dead but they took half the base with em lol
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08:43<LadyHawk>the lack of grouping units in dune2 gives it a nice strategic movement element to it i think.. it's not just build units and brute force your way through like modern games
08:43<TrueBrain>I just read you can group units
08:43<TrueBrain>only that it works more often not :p
08:44<LadyHawk>how? :O
08:44<TrueBrain>by moving a unit to another unit
08:44<TrueBrain>but they say it only works if another unit is already moving
08:44<TrueBrain>and even that is not sure to work :p
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08:44<LadyHawk>as soon as the unit that moves towards another unit stands still.. it'll stop following it
08:47<LadyHawk>and that would include whenever the first unit changes direction.. it stops for a second
08:47<LadyHawk>i never used that
08:50<TrueBrain>haha: //Took this from bochs, i seriously hate these weird bcd opcodes
08:50<TrueBrain>DosBox is funny :)
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09:11<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: btw, did you also know that sonic waves go further when you have speed on Fast? I notice that pretty soon .. gives you a nice ... advantage ;)
09:13<LadyHawk>sonic tanks have the same range as rocket tanks
09:13<TrueBrain>not in Fast ;)
09:13<LadyHawk>which is 1 tile longer range than a rocket turret
09:13<LadyHawk>what's their range in fast then?
09:14<TrueBrain>I believe 2 or 3 tiles longer .. can't remember the details
09:14<TrueBrain>darn, opcode 0x66 in dune2 .. that would suck if that would be really true ...
09:15<TrueBrain>opcode 0x66 means dword mode
09:15<LadyHawk>sorry, too technical for me
09:15<TrueBrain>32bit instead of 16bit ;)
09:17<TrueBrain>I like the simple dynamics of the game
09:17<TrueBrain>units move around when standing still
09:17<TrueBrain>flags move
09:17<TrueBrain>and that for a game of that age ...
09:17<TrueBrain>same for TT, I realised a few days ago
09:17<TrueBrain>there was a lot of bitfucking to get things in a map format
09:17<TrueBrain>yet .. there are moving lifts
09:17<TrueBrain>for just a few houses
09:17<TrueBrain>amazing details :)
09:32<Tekky>Command & Conquer is based on Dune 2, isn't it?
09:32<LadyHawk>i dunno, i never got into CC till long after dune2's time period
09:33<TrueBrain>it is what followed out of Dune2 yes
09:33<TrueBrain>the concept is identical
09:33<LadyHawk>the only bit of silly graphics in dune2 is when say a tank is turning its head to fire at an enemy, it fires before the barrel is aimed at it
09:33<Tekky>Yes, I also have very fond memories of Dune 2.
09:33<LadyHawk>but that's so minor
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09:34<TrueBrain>hmmm .. status of my units is displayed wrong ..
09:34<TrueBrain>odd ...
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>if dune 2 is the first of its kind, what exactly was dune 1 then?
09:34<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: a WHOLE other game
09:34<LadyHawk>dune 1 was nothing like dune 2
09:34<TrueBrain>more like KingQuest ;)
09:34<LadyHawk>dune 1 was more of a storybased adventure game
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>i have never seen dune 1
09:35<TrueBrain>look it up
09:35<TrueBrain>it aint bad :)
09:35<TrueBrain>(for that time)
09:35<LadyHawk>it took me multiple attempts to even figure out how dune1 worked though
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>damn... how do i tell civ4 to use a language from the command line?
09:36<TrueBrain>never played Civ4
09:36<TrueBrain>I try to keep it that way ;)
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. ignore the language from the config file
09:36<LadyHawk>cant just change it in the config file?
09:36<+glx>/? maybe
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>LadyHawk: yes, but i'd have to change it back there afterwards
09:37<Tekky>Dune 1:
09:37<Tekky>Dune 2:
09:37<Eddi|zuHause> <- says i can only override the config file
09:38<LadyHawk>make a .bat file to change it, run game, and on exit change it back? (not sure if batch can do that but i'd assume it can)
09:39<TrueBrain>argh, this is annoying! Everything seems to work, including building a harvest and stuff .. just the unit stats (what it is doing) is wrong, and I can't make vheicles move :p
09:41<TrueBrain>it also generated a slightly different map
09:41<TrueBrain>hahaha, the harvster can't move either :)
09:42<fjb>Maybe you need some spice girls to move them.
09:42<TrueBrain>is 72 percent full and heading back
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it is a tiberium harvester, and ended up in the wrong game?
09:45<TrueBrain>those darn quantum effects
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>damn... this command line isn't working...
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>i should just write a script that autogenerates the missing language entries...
09:47<TrueBrain>that is the spirit!
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>meaning not translate them, just copy the english text
09:49<TrueBrain>I love this channel .. one person talking about dune2, the other about civ4 .. :)
10:00<LadyHawk>last few days is the first time i see anyone talk about other games than ottd
10:00<LadyHawk>cuz of your little project TrueBrain
10:00<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: I tend to have that effect ;)
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11:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16954 /trunk/src/ (52 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the Game Options window use the nested widget system.
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11:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16955 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r16954): removed a few strings too many from the translations
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>after i figured out how to do XML processing, this
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11:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16956 /trunk/src/lang/ (51 files in 2 dirs): -Update: 'pre' translate some strings that can't be translated, like {BLACK}{STRING}
11:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r16957 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Fix: Trigger the same window repositioning after changing font/language as it is done after resizing the main OpenTTD window.
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12:16<Yexo>In total OpenTTD can only have 512 IDs for all active grf files (including non-overridden original tiles). <- From Aren't all original tiles included, also overriden ones?
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12:56<@Belugas>Yexo, including original tiles.
12:57<@Belugas>if i remember correctly
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13:19<DaleStan>andythenorth (Pounce message): No. Back vehicles may vary based on the engine, but the reverse is not exposed.
13:21<andythenorth>bloody pixels :|
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13:29<Alberth>too much red?
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16958 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frisian - 54 changes by huddekul
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 272 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 8 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: serbian - 59 changes by etran
13:55<TrueBrain>why does linux not like 5000 files in 1 dir :(
13:55<@Rubidium>because you're using a file system that doesn't like it
13:57<@Rubidium>some FSes use a linked list for maintaining a list of files in a directory, others use a balanced tree
14:03<Xaroth>TrueBrain: tried calling westwood, nobody picked up the phone.
14:03<+glx>Xaroth: what do you expect on saturday ?
14:03<Xaroth>glx: SHHHH
14:03<TrueBrain>Xaroth: monday again? :)
14:04<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I was kind of serious btw :) If they give permission to make a 1-on-1 clone, I will do my atmost to make it happen :)
14:04<Xaroth>and I'll help!
14:04<TrueBrain>I just generated a few megs of C code, to give that a starting idea ;)
14:05<Xaroth>bit of a bad timing though, one of my bosses would probably know how to best deal with them :P
14:05<TrueBrain>then why is it bad timing?
14:07<Xaroth>he.. just left for 2 weeks for vacation.
14:07<TrueBrain>so in 2 weeks, I expect you to motivate him to make that call ;) Ghehehehehe :p
14:07<Xaroth>he'll never make that call
14:07<Xaroth>but he'll have insight
14:08<TrueBrain>I now generated a lot of asm like C code ... will be a bitch to read through all those files analyzing them :p
14:08<TrueBrain>5000 files so far, and I just loaded a game and pressed Quit :p
14:10<TrueBrain>you didn't pick on that yet? :p
14:10<TrueBrain>if I use the word: clone, I mean really: clone
14:10<TrueBrain>not some half-baked look-alike
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14:16<TrueBrain>Xaroth: in detail, I created an application that runs a 16bit application via a JIT, generating C code, which is compiled, and executed via a emulator layer. The C code is written to disk and can thereafter be compiled as static code, ready for human .. updating to increase readability ;)
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14:21<TrueBrain>a bit sick :p
14:22<TrueBrain>it is okay, you can say that ;)
14:22<Xaroth>yer dutch, i can't blame you :P
14:22<Alberth>TrueBrain: sounds like fun :)
14:22<TrueBrain>fun it is :)
14:22<Xaroth>.. yer also not the only dutchie who's doing something like that
14:22<TrueBrain>if I would manage to fix this bug where I can't move vehicles :s
14:23<TrueBrain>Xaroth: ghehe :) No suprise there, but do tell?
14:23<TrueBrain>that was what I meant with half-baked look-alike :p
14:24<TrueBrain>although I have great respect for such projects :)
14:24<Xaroth>it's a fun project, i followed it for a while
14:24<Xaroth>but it lacks the dune feel
14:24<TrueBrain>exactly :)
14:25<TrueBrain>if I ever manage to get this stuff to really work, I have 2 projects I will launch based on it, both dune2 alike .. one webbased, the other a very close look-alike
14:25<Xaroth>I'd more prefer it to be something like ottd, as long as it remains the dune feel
14:25<Xaroth>web based?
14:26<TrueBrain>I once made a prototype of it ... doubt I can find it back .. :p
14:26<TrueBrain>yeah, it is on one of my backup disks ... :p
14:26<TrueBrain>I once made a proof-of-concept more, which showed a dune-like map and moving vehicles. Fully webbased (javascript, AJAX, the usual)
14:27<Alberth>Don Hopkins is doing that too, but with Simcity. I don't really know what to think of web-based games.
14:27<TrueBrain>WT3 is also a web-application
14:27<TrueBrain>only not driven on PHP, which makes it much more robust :)
14:27<TrueBrain>and the front-end is just an optional component
14:28<TrueBrain>I also once considered it for OpenTTD, but it required too much bandwidth :p
14:28<Alberth>Such a thing web-based, ok. But a game?
14:28<TrueBrain>well, if done correctly, you have a choice: download an application and join the game, or use a website
14:28<TrueBrain>I don't believe in Web2.0, but for such things, it is just nice to toy with :)
14:29<Alberth>I rather fight a computer AI in a stand-alone app :)
14:29<TrueBrain>the idea is more: join via the web to get a look and feel, download the game to really enjoy it :p
14:29<TrueBrain>well, the webdune project will be a MMO
14:30<TrueBrain>so no computer AI fights :p
14:30<TrueBrain>but okay :)
14:30<TrueBrain>first there are other challenges :p
14:31<TrueBrain>like finding which of these 5000 functions fucks up ... or at the very least finding a method to figure that out :p
14:31<Tekky>Is anyone there who is familiar with the internals of YAPF/YAPP? I don't understand the following piece of code in src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp:
14:31<Tekky>/* Searching for a safe tile? */
14:31<Tekky>if (HasSignalOnTrackdir(cur.tile, && !IsPbsSignal(GetSignalType(cur.tile, TrackdirToTrack( {
14:31<Tekky>end_segment_reason= ESRB_SAFE_TILE;
14:31<Tekky>Shouldn't the tile be considered a safe waiting location if the tile HAS a PBS Signal, instead of NOT HAVING a PBS Signal?
14:33<Tekky>This piece of code has been giving me a headache for several hours already. Any help would be appreciated. :-)
14:33<TrueBrain>clearly the answer is: no
14:33<TrueBrain>but why, don't know :)
14:37<Xaroth>Cryonetworks was working on a dune MMO a few years ago
14:37<TrueBrain>it all died, not?
14:38<TrueBrain>all dune clones too btw
14:38<TrueBrain>there is one that has some form of activity
14:38<TrueBrain>moved to googlecode this year
14:38<Xaroth>d2:tm is still 'alive'
14:38<TrueBrain>I believe it was the other one I mean
14:38<TrueBrain>ah, no, d2:tm
14:39<TrueBrain>oeh, even commits today!
14:41<Xaroth> << another clone
14:44-!-paul_ [] has joined #openttd
14:44<TrueBrain>even some form of activity :p
14:46<+michi_cc>Tekky: the safe tile is the tile *in front of* the pbs signal, not the signal tile itself. for block signals, the path stops at the signal tile itself to work better with two-sided signals.
14:47<Tekky>michi_cc: Ah, thank you very much!
14:47<Xaroth>TrueBrain: wouldn't it more senseful to rebuild something from the ground up, rather than trying to figure out old 16 bit code :P
14:47<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I talked that over with a friend of mine. We established it would take 4 days of 8 hours for the two of us to do that (at least, the base-code for it)
14:48<TrueBrain>but it would have one major flaw: the exact specs of dune2 are missing
14:48<TrueBrain>and what I see with all those clones there are now, they all miss that
14:48<TrueBrain>and dune2 is such a crappy game, that you either have to do it identical, or do it compeltely different
14:48<TrueBrain>I mean: right mouse CENTERS the map ... come on!
14:48<TrueBrain>the only reason we accept that, is because it is dune2 :)
14:48<Xaroth>well yeh
14:49<TrueBrain>and you know ... this is more fun ;)
14:49<TrueBrain>looking how they did it :)
14:49<Xaroth>true, but why not combine both?
14:49<TrueBrain>well, maybe that happens in time
14:49<TrueBrain>but IDA fucks up too often to use it as reference .. so this method will be a better reference model :)
14:49-!-nfc [] has joined #openttd
14:50-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51<TrueBrain>the only downside of my method, is that it has more legal problems :p
14:51-!-Phoenix_the_II [] has joined #openttd
14:51-!-PhoenixII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:53<Xaroth>well what you're doing now is a proof-of-concept
14:53<Xaroth>as long as you don't use it, yer home free :P
14:54-!-paul_ [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
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14:55<Tekky>michi_cc: Is my understanding correct that in the original implementation of YAPF by KUDr, the YAPF segments were not interrupted by signals, but in order to implement PBS, you split up YAPF segments at signals by introducing ESRB_SAFE_TILE as an end_segment_reason? Or am I mistaken?
14:57<TrueBrain>Xaroth: you're or you are ... yer reads really annoying
14:57<TrueBrain>like a jar, but then different
14:57<Xaroth>too much time with brits :(
14:57<TrueBrain>no normal human should ever write 'yer'
14:57<Xaroth>brits aren't normal humans.
14:58<TrueBrain>you picked up on that .. hmm .. ;) Hehe :)
14:58<TrueBrain>anyway .. I first need to fix this weird and strange bug I am having, then I will see where this project goes :)
14:58<Xaroth>I wonder how hard it would be to create a D2 clone in C#
14:58<TrueBrain>I most likely write a few routines which make the C code more readable :p
14:58<TrueBrain>why C#?
14:59<Xaroth>saves me months of learning new language, etc
14:59<TrueBrain>well, I would maybe consider it if it wasn't a Microsoft shit thingy
14:59<Xaroth>not for real, as concept thing
14:59<Xaroth>never bothered making games in C#.. heck, never bothered making games period
14:59<TrueBrain>games are much harder than applications
15:00<Xaroth>C/C++ is also much harder to learn than C# :P
15:00<TrueBrain>and if you know C#, C is not such a big step
15:00<TrueBrain>only different :p
15:00<Xaroth>its not that hard
15:01<Xaroth>if i look at the ottd code i can understand at least half of it
15:01<TrueBrain>if you know one programming language, you know them all, I always say
15:01<TrueBrain>it only takes time to get to know the syntax
15:01<TrueBrain>and then the language specific shit
15:01<TrueBrain>but you can mostly do without it too :) Just .. it is a bit slower or more ugly :p
15:01<TrueBrain>it is more like if you know how you need to think to put an idea in code, the languag eis no longer important
15:02<TrueBrain>I can program in like 10 languages .. not that I know them all that good or what ever, but simply because of the principe above
15:03<Xaroth>I can probably manage in 10 languages, as long as it's normal stuff and not fancy stuff :P
15:03<TrueBrain>I can most likely program in C#, never tried it though .. :p :p
15:03<Xaroth>don't bother :)
15:03<TrueBrain>won't :)
15:03<TrueBrain>I once did a few weeks a bit of JAVA .. will try to stay away from that too :p
15:03*Xaroth shudders
15:03<Xaroth>had a course of that at college
15:04<Xaroth>NEVER AGAIN.
15:04<Xaroth>(both the course and the language)
15:04<TrueBrain>the language D is also ... pretty horrible
15:04<TrueBrain>that is: it is much better, but it takes much longer to write anything in
15:05<TrueBrain>(pre and post conditions ...)
15:05<TrueBrain>like C
15:05<TrueBrain>just D
15:05<Xaroth>F# .. also a language i'm staying away from
15:06<TrueBrain>Xaroth: Microsoft ....
15:08<Xaroth>MS Research
15:08<Xaroth>or.. used to at least
15:09<TrueBrain>hmm, it wasn't D that was so horrible
15:09<TrueBrain>D is very C++ alike, just with new features
15:10<TrueBrain>(not for the better)
15:13<Xaroth>what the, i even have visual studio express C++ installed on this machine
15:13-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:13<TrueBrain>and I can't find the languag eI mean ..
15:13<TrueBrain>I worked with it for a bit ...
15:13<TrueBrain>in every function define you had to say what you expect to go in and out
15:15<Alberth>pascal ?
15:15<TrueBrain>haha, no
15:16<TrueBrain>I thought it was flex
15:17<TrueBrain>but ..
15:17<TrueBrain>can't find a webpage about it :p
15:17<TrueBrain>besides the reference to adobe
15:17<TrueBrain>which is not wha tI meant :p
15:19<TrueBrain>I hate my memory :'(
15:21<Alberth>flex is a scanner generator afaik, has no in or out stuff
15:21<TrueBrain>flex is also a lexer, yes
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15:23<TrueBrain>hello AdditionalData
15:24<AdditionalData>I see there's a custom bridgeheads branch
15:24<AdditionalData>A new one :D
15:24<AdditionalData>are the developers planning to bring this into trunk at some point? :D
15:25<TrueBrain>maybe not
15:25<Yexo>where did ou find this 'new' branch?
15:25<Yexo>the only one I know of is 2 years old
15:28-!-Pygma [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
15:35<+glx>[21:13:17] <Xaroth> what the, i even have visual studio express C++ installed on this machine <-- worse I have 2 visual studio express c++ installed :)
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15:38<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:38<TrueBrain>howdie Nite_Owl
15:38<Nite_Owl>Hello TrueBrain
15:38<AdditionalData>Yexo: On the wiki
15:38<+glx>don't trust the wiki :)
15:39<AdditionalData>look at the revision
15:39<TrueBrain>that is Apache WebDAV .. it shows the HEAD revision on ALL pages
15:39<+glx>16958 I guess
15:39<Yexo>AdditionalData: that's the latest revision from the complete repo, custombridgeheads is just a part of that
15:40<TrueBrain>try that url ;)
15:40<Yexo>the latest change in custombridgeheads was r9109
15:41<AdditionalData>oh nuts
15:41<AdditionalData>i failed =[
15:42<TrueBrain>well .. it looks more like we failed to finish that branch :)
15:42<AdditionalData>so what new features are developers interested in/working on?
15:43<@Rubidium>is "people who update the wiki" a feature?
15:44<Alberth>is "people who refactor code" a feature?
15:44<TrueBrain>is "people who work on other projects" a feature?
15:45<@Rubidium>Alberth: only the results of the refactor
15:45<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that's more a problem, see e.g. custombridgeheads and cargodest
15:45<TrueBrain>true true
15:46*TrueBrain is happy he finished NoAI .. else it would have been in that group ;)
15:46<Yexo>@seen celestar
15:46<@DorpsGek>Yexo: celestar was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
15:47<Alberth>Rubidium: that's the next step :p
15:50<Yexo>TrueBrain: did you do any work on nail recently or is is completely dead?
15:50<TrueBrain>Yexo: for now it is dead; in order for it to become functional in NoAI, it needs so many functions
15:50<TrueBrain>I don't even want to think about it
15:50<TrueBrain>(too many people use all the power of Squirrel)
15:51<TrueBrain>but okay .. the whole tree handling of NAIL I reused in my 16bit thingy, but that is of no real use to you :p
15:51<OwenS>Whats wrong with Squirrel anyway?
15:51<TrueBrain>ever looked at the code?
15:51<TrueBrain>and it has bugs
15:51<Yexo>what's not wrong with it?
15:52<OwenS>TrueBrain: No. If I need a scripting language, I usually dig out QtScript. Before Qt was open sourced, I'd dig out Lua :p
15:52<TrueBrain>well, Squirrel is the object oriented variant of lua
15:52<TrueBrain>only less ... pretty :)
15:53<OwenS>Lua can be object oriented pretty easily
15:53<TrueBrain>not in any real way :p
15:53<OwenS>It can. I've done it. Just requires a small ammount of glue code
15:53<TrueBrain>the ways I have seen, can't be considered real :)
15:53<TrueBrain>no overloading, no ..
15:54<TrueBrain>well .. what Squirrel supplies ;)
15:54<OwenS>Overloading is quite easy :-P
15:54<TrueBrain>extended, sorry
15:54<Alberth>@seen Terkhen
15:54<@DorpsGek>Alberth: Terkhen was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Terkhen> good evening people
15:54<Alberth>not a regular :)
15:55<OwenS>x = class(BaseClass); function x:new(args) self.super:new(); blah; end; was my syntax
15:55<TrueBrain>I prefer Squirrel :)
15:55<OwenS>I prefer ECMAScript :P
15:55<OwenS>In spite of it's sucky name
16:00<AdditionalData>so we're going to be waiting a while for custom bridge heads?
16:01<TrueBrain>AdditionalData: or you might feel up to the task?
16:01<AdditionalData>Heh, I wish I was as awesome as that :(
16:01-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
16:01<TrueBrain>become as Barney, become that awesome!
16:01<TrueBrain>and in the end of the day you just say Legen
16:01<TrueBrain>(WAIT FOR IT!)
16:02<AdditionalData>I've got a book on C
16:02<AdditionalData>but i've not read it much :(
16:02<TrueBrain>"the day I stopped being sad and become awesome!"
16:02<AdditionalData>I really should..
16:02<TrueBrain>C is, after reading a bit, very much just doing
16:02<Yexo>AdditionalData: since (to my knowledge) currently nobody is working on it, you'll have to wait quite a while :p
16:02<AdditionalData>but isn't OpenTTD mostly C++ now?
16:02<TrueBrain>C and C++ do not differ that much; just a layer of classes and dirty tricks :)
16:02<OwenS>You need to know C to know C++ :P
16:02<AdditionalData>so knowing C will be enough?
16:03<TrueBrain>enough, no, but a good starting step
16:03<AdditionalData>I'll try
16:03<AdditionalData>but it will be a while :)
16:03<Yexo>if you know C pretty well, you can read the OpenTTD code pretty easily
16:03<TrueBrain>we have the time :)
16:04<Yexo>even if you take very long, it's faster then waiting for the mysterious 'somebody' to pick up the work
16:04<AdditionalData>i'll get to grips with C to a good level and then make some small patches to get used to all of this :)
16:04<TrueBrain>that is how most of us start :)
16:04<AdditionalData>then if i know enough i will try to make the custom bridge heads patch :)
16:04<Yexo>hehe, m first patches for openttd were some spelling mistakes in the comments :)
16:04<Nite_Owl>too many jokes missed due to slow typing
16:04<TrueBrain>Nite_Owl: mwhahaha
16:05*Yexo needs a new keyboard, my y doesn't work well :(
16:05<AdditionalData>once you get a new one
16:05<AdditionalData>use the old one to hit things with
16:06<Nite_Owl>There was a 6 million dollar man reference there but I could not get it out fast enough
16:06<TrueBrain>AdditionalData: what is your address? :p :p :p
16:06<+glx>Yexo: but you placed it 3 times
16:06<Yexo>yes, it works if I press the key hard, but when I type normally without paying attention to it, I regurarly miss it
16:07<+glx>looks like the n on my old keyboard
16:08<AdditionalData>TrueBrain: ;)
16:08<TrueBrain>you should have used ;)
16:08<TrueBrain>but fair enough :)
16:08<AdditionalData>what books did you use to start on C truebrain?
16:08<TrueBrain>I never read any book
16:08<AdditionalData>I have a C For Dummies (the really thick version, about 750 pages)
16:09<AdditionalData>willt hat do?
16:09<TrueBrain>when I had to, I refused ... passed that class with a A+
16:09<Yexo>AdditionalData: just reading won't get you far, but it's a good start
16:09<TrueBrain>you can read all you want, but in the end you need to do it yourself
16:09<AdditionalData>It gives you examples
16:09<TrueBrain>write .. write a lot
16:09<AdditionalData>Then it teaches you what the code means
16:09<TrueBrain>if you have the brains, you pick up soon enough
16:09<Yexo>as soon as you have a basic grip about programming, start building some simple programs
16:09<Yexo>even if it's just creating a hello world program yourself instead of reading about it
16:10<AdditionalData>I got the code for an OpenGL program once
16:10<AdditionalData>that made a triangle
16:10<TrueBrain>I only use books (read:, when I want to do something I don't know how :p
16:10<AdditionalData>I modified it to create many triangles :)
16:10<+glx>AdditionalData: everything is triangle in 3D world :)
16:10<AdditionalData>i typed in a number
16:10<AdditionalData>e.g 3
16:10<AdditionalData>and it would make that many :)
16:11<AdditionalData>i'd better get to work ;)
16:12<OwenS>glx: On a Sega Saturn everything is a quad :P
16:12<OwenS>Aww I'm temporarily musicless =(
16:12<TrueBrain>I read muscleless
16:12<AdditionalData>The very early Nvidia cards used quads
16:12<TrueBrain>and wondered how that would be possible
16:12<AdditionalData>like NV1, NV3
16:12<TrueBrain>OwenS: use streaming readio
16:12<OwenS>AdditionalData: And therefore so did the Saturn :P
16:13<OwenS>TrueBrain: For now it will have to do =(
16:13*Yexo wonders what is wrong with streaming radio
16:13<+glx>TrueBrain: stay in space for too long without doing muscular activities :)
16:13<TrueBrain>Yexo: Caz repeats too many songs too often
16:13<TrueBrain>and the rest talks too much
16:13<TrueBrain>glx: but then how did he type? :p
16:14<AdditionalData>OwenS: Youtube?
16:14<Yexo>TrueBrain: how do you know he typed? Maybe someone types everything for him :p
16:14<TrueBrain>true true
16:14<TrueBrain>k, problem solved
16:15<+glx>this chan is insane
16:15<TrueBrain>glx: and NOW you figure out?
16:15<AdditionalData>what's your preffered compilers on windows guys?
16:15<TrueBrain>how many years have you been here?
16:15<TrueBrain>AdditionalData: linux
16:15<+glx>I have no preference
16:15<AdditionalData>what's wrong with windows?
16:16<+glx>I use g++, msvc 2005 and msvc 2008
16:16<AdditionalData>I keep trying to go back to Ubuntu
16:16<AdditionalData>But ATI drivers are terrible on Linux
16:16<OwenS>AdditionalData: 22.5kHz audio at a stupidly low bitrate is noise, not music
16:16<Yexo>I like the visual studio ide, but gcc/g++ as compiler is fine
16:16<AdditionalData>OwenS: High Quality mode has better sound quality
16:16<+glx>AdditionalData: "on Linux" is not needed :)
16:16<TrueBrain>I bought an nVidia to use with Linux
16:16<TrueBrain>yes, ATI sucks ;)
16:17<OwenS>AdditionalData: Yes. it also requires downloading video to go with it. And searching for what to listen to
16:17<AdditionalData>OwenS: It's good for that one song you got stuck in your head.
16:17<AdditionalData>OwenS: There are also playlists availiable
16:18<OwenS>Oh. And it involves the monstrosity called Flash.
16:18<AdditionalData>I guess if you don't like flash
16:18<+glx>OwenS: try dailymotion with firefox 3.5, may not require flash :)
16:22<AdditionalData>glx: Seems to need flash
16:22<OwenS>Hmm... can someone quickly spot me the netmask for a /20? :P
16:22<TrueBrain>euh .. /24 =
16:22<TrueBrain>so 4 bits less
16:22<AdditionalData>...My brain just exploded
16:23<TrueBrain>0xFF becomes 0xF0
16:23<TrueBrain>0xFFFFF000 ;)
16:23<AdditionalData>I have a book on assembly too
16:23<AdditionalData>but I haven't read that either :P
16:23<OwenS>Good point... Just shove 0xF0 into speedcrunch
16:23<TrueBrain> :p :p :p
16:24<OwenS>My network runs on the somewhat awkward :p
16:24<TrueBrain>afraid you will need more than 256 hosts? :p
16:24<TrueBrain>254, sorry :p
16:24<OwenS>168.192 is a /16 :P
16:24<TrueBrain>192.168, yes
16:25<TrueBrain>(at least, if you refer to the private range :p)
16:25<TrueBrain>10 is a /8
16:25<OwenS>I used to run but I had to change to 172.16 because of a reason which shows why we need IPv6: Conflict with the other end of a VPN tunnel...
16:26<TrueBrain>I use 10.101.4 / 24 ...
16:26<TrueBrain>I doubt that would ever conflict with any VPN :p
16:26<SpComb>if the VPN uses, for instance
16:26<TrueBrain>true ..
16:26<TrueBrain>I would flame them
16:26<TrueBrain>but possible
16:26<OwenS>I'm soon gonna be fragmenting the 172.16 block anyway for MY VPN tunnels (The IPv4 addresses in them anyway)
16:26<TrueBrain>even then it won't be a real problem SpComb
16:27<TrueBrain>as long as their hosts aren't inside / 24
16:27<TrueBrain>(smaller masks get priority in routing)
16:27<OwenS>Because of poor error reporting from their VPN software the problem went unresolved for quite some time
16:27<TrueBrain>just don't try a two-way VPN :P
16:28<TrueBrain>oeh, this channel found yet another subject :)
16:28<OwenS>When I get my new router, I'm gonna be running a tonne of VLans :p
16:29<TrueBrain>you have THAT many computers at home?
16:29<SpComb>but generally, 10.x.y.z only gives you 16 bits of randomness
16:29<TrueBrain>(I use virtualization software, and even I don't reach the 16+ hosts)
16:29<OwenS>TrueBrain: Partly because I don't trust WPA :p
16:29<TrueBrain>fair enough
16:30<TrueBrain>I have a VERY strict filter on my router
16:30<TrueBrain>and a closed off internal network
16:30<TrueBrain>(so wlan devices can use the internet (if I allow them), but never the internal network)
16:30<OwenS>Four VLans: One for servers, one for local machines, one for wireless machines, and one for wireless machines which don't talk WPA+Radius but only WPA-PSK
16:30<+glx>AdditionalData: doesn't require a plugin to read videos
16:30<Alberth>OwenS: 0xf0 = 255 - 15 = 240
16:31<TrueBrain>Alberth: really? :p
16:31<TrueBrain>sorry, that should be obvious, not?
16:31<TrueBrain>maybe I have been working too much with bits lately .... :p
16:32<Alberth>maybe it is the time of day, it took me 15 seconds to figure that out :p
16:32<TrueBrain>@base 16 10 f0
16:32<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 240
16:32<TrueBrain>5 seconds, if you really need to know ;)
16:32<Alberth>nah, too easy
16:34<Alberth>hmm, my viewport widget is not cooperating this evening
16:37<@Rubidium>Alberth: slap is really hard :)
16:38<Alberth>I need to shake the whole tree
16:38-!-Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:38<Alberth>but first it should work :)
16:41<TrueBrain>this is weird ... a file is not flushed to the disk before the application segfaults
16:41<TrueBrain>while I tell it: fflush(fp);
16:42<+glx>not nice
16:42<+glx>especially if you need the last lines to understand the crash
16:43<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: fflush doesn't guarantee stuff to be written to the disk
16:43<TrueBrain>clearly ... I assumed it would :(
16:43<@Rubidium>you need fsync/fdatasync for that
16:44<TrueBrain>didn't help :(
16:45-!-AdditionalData [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
16:46<OwenS>TrueBrain: Wha? Your OS isn't being posixly correct
16:46<TrueBrain>it is also not a nice crash my app experience
16:46<TrueBrain>(complete stack corruption .. in the backtrace are funcitons like 0x04)
16:47<@Rubidium>could it be that the fsync/fwhatever isn't called at all?
16:47<OwenS>Or is called but with crap?
16:47<TrueBrain>nope, should be fine
16:47<TrueBrain>possible the timer kicks in
16:48<OwenS>(Thats a man reference :P )
16:48<OwenS>You'll know it's occured because your disks will grind :P
16:50*OwenS installs GCC inside his DNS server zone
16:50<TrueBrain>oeh ... buffer overflows
16:51<OwenS>Haven't you heard? They're out of fashion :p
16:54<OwenS>"-bash: wget: command not found"
16:55<OwenS>I'm dissapointed that wget isn't in the base zone image and that I have to do a "pkg install SUNWwget"
16:56<TrueBrain>you know
16:56<TrueBrain>I am SO dissapointed
16:56<TrueBrain>I would call them
16:56<TrueBrain>and tell them exactly that
16:56*TrueBrain hugs OwenS
16:58<+glx>OwenS: and curl is not installed ?
17:04<OwenS>glx: nope
17:13<Xaroth>glx: wtf do you need 2x VSE C++ for?
17:13<Yexo>Xaroth: I use vs200 normally, and vs2005 to load crash dumps
17:14<Yexo>for some reason I can't do that in 2008, no idea if that's my fault or a limitation of the software in some way
17:15<+glx>2008 can load crash dump too
17:16<+glx>I have 2005 and 2008 to check openttd-useful :)
17:16<Yexo>hmm, now you mention that, I should update that
17:17<TrueBrain>damn, I can't ifnd the last 2 enemies in snipes :(
17:17<TrueBrain>(too much OpenTTD talk going on in here)
17:17-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
17:18<+glx>oh I should update too :)
17:19-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
17:24<OwenS>OK Sun, you really need to work on your packaging. MySQL headers are in package SUNWsfwhea. Completely logical, no?
17:24<TrueBrain>sfwhea ... Sun Fun Wealth Hence Excentric Affective?
17:25<OwenS>Sun FreeWare HEAders apparently
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17:26<OwenS>OMG powerdns configure finished!
17:26<TrueBrain>at least you pick decent software
17:26<OwenS>You use PowerDNS also? =)
17:27<TrueBrain>yup .. all external NS servers run PowerDNS
17:27<OwenS>Excuse me a moment while I bash Solaris for the "gcc-dev" package not pulling in gmake
17:27<TrueBrain>(internal it is a different story)
17:27<TrueBrain>I rewrote my jump/call/ret system ... but now it tends to switch cs/ip
17:28<OwenS>My external ones run BIND I think. I don't know; I have my VPS provider handle that :P
17:28<TrueBrain>I am a VPS provider :p
17:29<OwenS>One who sels VPS space? :P
17:29<TrueBrain>and more, yes
17:29<OwenS>Hail me when you host Solaris VPS's; Linode are nice but Solaris support would rock :P
17:29<TrueBrain>never tried :p
17:30<OwenS>It's possible to run it as both a Xen dom0 and domU
17:30<TrueBrain>ESX virtualization ;)
17:30<OwenS>That works also but I prefer Xen :p
17:30<TrueBrain>Xen has such a poor IO performance
17:30<TrueBrain>that I don't want it on any machine anymore
17:30<TrueBrain>we removed it with such a big slam ...
17:30<Xaroth>ESX ftw
17:31<Alberth>Good night
17:31<TrueBrain>night Alberth
17:31<OwenS>I don't have IO performance issues and my VPS is running Zen
17:31<Xaroth>and we use Bind primarily
17:31<TrueBrain>Xen only works 'well' if you install the IO drivers in the VPS itself
17:31<OwenS>../../ math.h: No such file or directory
17:31<OwenS>OH COME ON
17:31<TrueBrain>if that fails, or when it is not supported, IO performance drops with 50%
17:31<Xaroth>but I configured our bind servers to 'listen' to a MyDNS server we use on an ISPConfig machine for our 'friends' sites.
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17:32<OwenS>pkg install SUNWlibm it is. I do wish ipkg Zones started slightly less minimal :p
17:34<TrueBrain>hmm .. exit(0)
17:34<TrueBrain>I would expect that an application terminates immediatly ..
17:36<@Rubidium>nah, it'll at least run at_exit or whatever it's called
17:38<TrueBrain>pff .. too many files .. too much IO ...
17:38<Xaroth>hm, i wonder how easy it would be to get G15 LCD support for ottd :o
17:38<TrueBrain>what is it?
17:38<Xaroth>Logitech G15 keyboard.. has a LCD screen
17:38*Xaroth has a G15
17:38<KenjiE20>Xaroth: why stop there?
17:38<KenjiE20>G19 support, extra viewport :P
17:39<Xaroth>Buy me a G19 then
17:39<KenjiE20>yea, right after I get one :)
17:39<OwenS>Hmm.. Perhaps the reason configure is complaining is because you said libresolve not libresolv
17:47<TrueBrain>bah bah bah bah
17:47<TrueBrain>even my new calling system doesn't make dune2 move those DARN VEHICLES!
17:48<TrueBrain>also map generation is still wrong ..
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17:53*OwenS constructs MySQL zone (To serve up PowerDNS domains & other such stuff)
17:58<OwenS>At least I don't have to compile anything this time! =P
17:59<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
17:59*OwenS ponders why zlogin would let you connect to a nonbooted zone's console
17:59<TrueBrain>I am slowly optimizing the code so it becomes more readable (the code that is exported, that is)
18:00<TrueBrain> emu_int(0x21, 0x000C);
18:00<TrueBrain> // Most likely jumps to 1000:000C
18:00<OwenS>Thats not helpful. But without code it never will be :P
18:01<TrueBrain>it is better than nothing :)
18:01<OwenS>And wouldn't the petition for the Dune clone/etc have to go to EA now?
18:01<TrueBrain>oeh ... if you are right, I have a few ways in to EA ...
18:01<OwenS>Well EA hovered up Westwood
18:01<TrueBrain>I haven;t looked into it
18:02<TrueBrain>not at all
18:02<TrueBrain>EALA (Electronic Arts Los Angeles)
18:02<TrueBrain>it is called now
18:02<Xaroth>yeh, one of the EA depts
18:02<OwenS>EALA is an agglomeration of them and other EA depts
18:03<TrueBrain>didn't EA release games as open source?
18:03<Xaroth>they did?
18:04<OwenS>I don't think they did, but can't you now download C&C1 and RA1 legally?
18:04<OwenS>And I know they redirected the C&C1/RA1/TSun/RA2 Westwood Online servers to XWIS
18:06<TrueBrain>ah, no, Id Software did that
18:06<TrueBrain>I shouldn't mix up those 2 companies :p
18:06<OwenS>They're quite different :p
18:06<OwenS>Incidentally, Id recently got bought
18:06<TrueBrain>k .. this week I will write an email to my EA contacts
18:06<TrueBrain>see what they advise
18:07<OwenS>"ZeniMax Media Acquires id Software" Yeah
18:07<OwenS>ZeniMax being the Fallout developers
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18:12<TrueBrain>I am _very_ annoyed by the fact Dune2 doesn't do what it is supposed to do .. and more that I have NO CLUE how to trace the problem :p
18:12<OwenS>Hehe... The worst type of bug. Check more instructions work correctly? :p
18:13<TrueBrain>I doubled checked all of them
18:13<TrueBrain>all tests I did come back positive
18:13<OwenS>As I said, check more instructions :p
18:13<TrueBrain>I have no more instructions to check
18:14<OwenS>You sure?! I know the ridiculous size of the x86 instruction set
18:14<TrueBrain>252 instructions + a few
18:14<TrueBrain>and a few not implemented
18:14<TrueBrain>so say, 200 real instructions
18:14<TrueBrain>my test-set checks 170 of them
18:15<Xaroth>must be in one of the remaining 30 then :P
18:15<TrueBrain>the last 30 are not testable ;)
18:15<OwenS>They are in some way ;-)
18:15<TrueBrain>well, I guess they are tested, just not directly :p
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18:15<TrueBrain>(prefixes ...)
18:15<TrueBrain>okay, not completely true .. I don't test all 170
18:15<TrueBrain>inc ax works, so inc <other register> works too :p
18:15<OwenS>I am so glad my architecture doesn't have prefixes
18:16<TrueBrain>(simply because they have to :p)
18:16<TrueBrain>oh, and I didn't test NOP :p
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18:19<TrueBrain>it doesn't happen too often that I simply have no clue :(
18:20<TrueBrain>AlleyCat is also not doing much :p
18:20<TrueBrain>yes :)
18:23<Tekky>Is AlleyCat an old DOS game?
18:24<Tekky>I think I played that about 20 years ago, the name rings a bell.
18:24<Nite_Owl>How about 'Sword of the Samurai'
18:25<Tekky>I love that game, I have it on my hard disk :)
18:25<Nite_Owl>me too
18:25<Tekky>I used to play that game a lot 15 years ago.
18:26<TrueBrain>haha, for AlleyCat I need to program the PIT .. which is a true bitch :)
18:26<Tekky>My favorite game of all time is UFO: Enemy Unknown (European name)/XCOM: UFO Defense (American Name).
18:26<TrueBrain>never played either (Samurai and UFO)
18:27<Nite_Owl>the individual dueling samurai part of that game was done by a young Sid Meier
18:27<Tekky>Besides OpenTTD, of course. :)
18:28<Nite_Owl>I have XCOM on my hard drive too
18:30<Tekky>I find the melee mode more interesting in Sword of the Samurai.However, what I like most about Sword of the Samurai is the combination of all these game modes: Tactical Duel, Melee and Army mode combined with the overall strategic mode.
18:30<Tekky>Covert Action by Sid Meier is also one of my favorite games.
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18:35*Nite_Owl will Google it
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18:44<DragoonJett>What is output preservation
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18:55<TrueBrain>good night all
18:56<@Rubidium>night TrueBrain
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19:31<Nite_Owl>I need to feed - later all
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19:41<Aali>now this is funny
19:42<Aali>MSVC is telling me that I don't have msvcr90.dll when I compile my code in debug mode
19:42<Aali>change to the release config and it goes away
19:42<Aali>as far as I can tell, they're identical except for the debugging stuff
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19:58<OwenS>Aali: Theres an msvcr90 debug dll which has, you guessed it, debug code
19:59<Aali>yes, it's called msvcr90d or some such
19:59<Aali>and I'm not using it
20:00<Aali>both the debug and release configs link against the release crt
20:00<OwenS>They shouldn't
20:00<Aali>yes they should
20:00<Aali>because debugging the crt is not necessary in this case
20:01<OwenS>It's not about debugging the CRT
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20:01<OwenS>msvcr90d includes code for debuggin gyour app
20:01<Aali>like what?
20:01<Aali>I can debug it just fine with the release crt
20:02<OwenS>The code for assertion failures, initializes RAM to 0xBAADF00D (A sigil and invalid address), uses debug malloc structures (To catch damaging them), etc
20:03<Aali>sure, and none of that is relevant here
20:04<DragoonJett>With trains what does Max Tractive Effort mean
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20:12<+glx>tells how much it can pull without damages
20:13<Markk>2.7 bucks for 1.5L coke
20:13<Markk>Not the most expensive one i've bought, but still.
20:17<DragoonJett>thanks glx
20:17<DragoonJett>Markk, you got fucked
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20:18<Markk>Nah, I live in sweden, everything is expensive here
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20:18<Markk>How much is a normal price in usa?
20:18<DragoonJett>Im in Canada
20:19<Markk>There then?
20:19<DragoonJett>And at my local corner store I can get two 2L of coke so 4l for 4bucks
20:19<Markk>Canada is a place in america i want to go too
20:19<Markk>Okej :P
20:20<DragoonJett>Yes it is in North America
20:20<Markk>I'm very aware of that
20:20<OwenS>It tends to be £2 for 2x2L in the UK; or £1.50 for one (Cause offers are weird :P )
20:21<Markk>OwenS: wow, that's more expensive then here
20:21<Markk>3x 1.5L with offer will cost 4.4USD
20:22<DragoonJett>Water here is like 2cents per 2L
20:22<Markk>Who buys water?
20:22<OwenS>£2 = $3.28; And thats the "continual offer" kind
20:23<OwenS>Rather than the "occasional" kind :p
20:24<OwenS>I presume they do it that way because it means people buy more
20:25<Markk>OwenS: do you live in London?
20:25<OwenS>North east
20:25<Markk>Of London?
20:25<OwenS>More north of london, but north east UK
20:26<Markk>But everyone in the UK are living in London, exept Fat Boy Slim, he's living in Brighton
20:26<OwenS>That price is for pepsi/coke coke. Store brand coke can be had for about 10p for 2L
20:26<OwenS>Decent store brand coke is about 50p/2L
20:26<Markk>Okej :P
20:26<Markk>I only drink Coca Cola
20:26<OwenS>I happen to live with a Pepsi rep, so I tend to go for Pepsi Max at trade prices :p
20:27<OwenS>Pepsi FTW :P
20:27<Markk>Here Pepsi (not cold though) taste to sweet
20:27<Markk>But it's much nicer too drink if it's cold
20:28<Markk>But I don't have a refridgerator in my room
20:28<OwenS>I dislike Coke's bitter aftertaste
20:28<Markk>Nothing I think of
20:29<Markk>Have been drinking coke daily for about, 4-5 year now
20:29<OwenS>OK. Why isn't nginx listening on port 80? O_o
20:29<DragoonJett>One thing I miss with working in a resturant is free Coke
20:29<DragoonJett>All I could drin while I worked
20:30<Markk>That would be great
20:30<Markk>OwenS: but do you mean that you're living in Scotland then
20:31<OwenS>Markk: No, then I'd have said Scotland
20:31<OwenS>Yeah, UK geographical terms are confusing
20:31<Markk>You said NW UK
20:31<Markk>You can say NW England
20:32<OwenS>North East means "North east of England; South of the Scotish border"
20:32<Markk>Sorry about that
20:33<OwenS>We just tend to refer to Scotland as a whole as Scotland. I presume it's a legacy of when we were separate states :P
20:34<OwenS>OK seriously why isn't nginx binding a port? O_O
20:34<Markk>DragoonJett: do you live in BC?
20:35<OwenS>And I seriously need to stop passing Linux arguments to Solaris commands
20:39<OwenS>Oh! it was binding!
20:39<OwenS>I was connecting to the wrong IP -_-
20:45<OwenS>I'm tiredd
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 26 00:00:56 2009