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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-27

---Logopened Mon Jul 27 00:00:59 2009
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01:09<GregVernon>Hey guys, is there a train limit in OpenTTD 0.7.1? I try to build more than 3 trains and I can't :(
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01:17<Noldo>what is stopping you?
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01:26<GregVernon>I go into the "new vehicle" menu, and can only create cars - no engines
01:28<Noldo>what is stopping you?
01:29<GregVernon>there are no engines in the list
01:30<Noldo>I don't think it has anything to do with a train limit, but you can test that easily by selling few trains
01:30<Noldo>it could be that there simply aren't any available
01:31<GregVernon>well, I only have three
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01:34<GregVernon>so I guess what do you mean by "available" factories can't keep up with demand?
01:35<GregVernon>hmm... I went into what trains I have available... I have 2 electric engines... I try to build one and it says "Can't build railroad vehicle"
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01:38<GregVernon>I just tried to clone one of my trains and it said "Cannot clone train... Vehicle not available"
01:41<GregVernon>I'm starting to think... in 2016, old diesel trains are not available anymore?
01:43<Noldo>propably not
01:44<GregVernon>well... I wouldn't mind updating my rail infastructure to an electrified rail, but that doesn't seem to be available either...
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01:57<aperson>howdy
02:06<Xaroth>GregVernon: Rail vehicle limits are set in the advanced settings window
02:22<GregVernon>whats the rate on how towns grow? i.e. how on until a trainstation/truck station/etc can accept goods or food?
02:26<GregVernon>what variables determine growth?
02:26<Noldo>http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_growth
02:26<planetmaker>town_growth_speed possibly
02:27<planetmaker>generally it helps a lot to just look at the config file :)
02:27<GregVernon>oh... thats awkward
02:27<GregVernon>:P
02:27<planetmaker>The config options equal the variable names
02:27<GregVernon>thanks though
02:28<planetmaker>up to 5 well serviced stations will help to boost growth
02:29<GregVernon>so, bus stations = growth?
02:29<planetmaker>serviced bus station will help to stimulate growth
02:30<GregVernon>sweet! thanks!
02:30<planetmaker>mind that in tropical or arctic towns will require food and/or water to grow if in snow/desert
02:30<GregVernon>yeah, I just raid that... I'm in a desert map.
02:30<GregVernon>I should probably start working on that water supply
02:30<planetmaker>it needs one delivery per month
02:31<planetmaker>the town info window tells you what (if so) is needed
02:31<GregVernon>is there any way to tell if the delivery makes it every month, i.e. if I have one truck going to two towns, how would I know if it makes deliveries on time?
02:32<planetmaker>no
02:32<planetmaker>at least not easily and reliably.
02:32<planetmaker>you could use autofil timetable for the vehicle for testing purposes
02:34<planetmaker>well: or very easy: open a viewport on a vehicle and just watch.
02:34<planetmaker>that's what I do in case of doubt
02:34<GregVernon>ah, I see
02:35<GregVernon>hmm, what about motor vehicle crashes
02:35<GregVernon>is there any way to avoid those? aside from not building across train tracks?
02:36<planetmaker>build not across train tracks. use bridges/tunnels
02:37<Tefad>good luck telling towns that
02:37<planetmaker>sure: disable town build roads and build yourself :-)
02:38<planetmaker>vehicle I build usually take save routes which I make sure don't hit a train
02:38<planetmaker>even with towns building road on
02:39<GregVernon>I see...
02:40<GregVernon>because I've had two crashes... 42 people dead so far :(
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03:09<GregVernon>ugh
03:09<GregVernon>why do UFOs like my trainstation?!
03:09<Noldo>it's tasty
03:11<GregVernon>I bet it is
03:11<GregVernon>I mean, rebuild it ever 5 years
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03:25<planetmaker>those old-fashioned and dirty buildings are just not on. They just help you to maintain a modern building.
03:28<GregVernon>which AI would you recommend I download?
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03:33<@Rubidium>planetmaker: are OpenGFX's toyland construction stages automatically generated?
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03:33<planetmaker>Rubidium, not automatically. But one person made a web-based generator
03:33<planetmaker>And he made all those wrapping- stages.
03:34<@Rubidium>that sounds like automatically to me
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03:34<planetmaker>well. you still have to put in every sprite individually and have it generate the output.
03:35<planetmaker>but yes, it's automatic in a certain sense :-)
03:35<planetmaker>Though I didn't find the interface 100% intuitive :-P
03:36<@Rubidium>so the web-based generator is the prefered way of modifying those sprites (at least the wrapping), right?
03:36<planetmaker>http://files.edorfaus.info/ttd-box-editor/ttd-box-editor.html
03:36<planetmaker>well... that's the way it has been done now. And the only way.
03:37<planetmaker>So... I guess it's the preferred way to do then :-)
03:37-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
03:37<@Rubidium>so it's something troublesome for GPL 'compatability'
03:37<planetmaker>uh? Why?
03:38<@Rubidium>The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.
03:38<planetmaker>hm... true
03:38<Noldo>and tools to make the 'binary' from the 'source'
03:38<planetmaker>I'll ask him about the php code
03:39<planetmaker>Noldo, that's done. The pcx are there.
03:40<Noldo>for just the wrapping?
03:41<planetmaker>yes. It's a pattern which is taken
03:41<planetmaker>and then skewed over the existing sprite
03:41<planetmaker>and a bit re-shaded to adjust for lightening effects
03:42<planetmaker>The box generator is also GPL2 - by the person who supplied the sprites - so in principle we can add it to the repo.
03:42<planetmaker>Which is a good idea, I have to admit.
03:43<@Rubidium>yup
03:44<@Rubidium>and add the pattern and a small script that (re)generates the wrapped-toyland-buildings-pcx(es?)
03:45<@Rubidium>and just use the pregenerated (stored in the repository) .pcx for the general build
03:45<planetmaker>yes. That'd be handy. I don't entirely understand how he did that. But I'll ask him about exactly that, to submit it to the repo
03:46<planetmaker>uh... ok. That'll be difficult. It's web-based, e.g. you have to upload the sprite afaik
03:46<@Rubidium>that way people can both generate the sprites and you don't add a php dependency on building the package
03:46<@Rubidium>he did upload and download all those sprites... poor person
03:47<planetmaker>Though, admittedly again, that'd be the best way. But(!) alignment needs doing manually in any case, if the original sprites change.
03:47<planetmaker>So I don't really see how that can be completely don automatically.
03:47<planetmaker>hm... sprite# seems to suffice
03:47<planetmaker>so he gets them somewhere.
03:49<planetmaker>but still it needs generation one by one.
03:53<Alberth>further automagization would be useful :)
03:53<planetmaker>yup, indeed :-)
03:57<Alberth>(09:47:34 AM) planetmaker: So I don't really see how that can be completely don automatically. <-- you cannot. However, if you can specify in a file how to align each sprite (and the tool knows what to do with the file), that file becomes part of the input-files, and you can do the assembly as part of the daily build.
03:58<planetmaker>Alberth, well... in principle the wrapping need the same alignment as the built house... I guess a copy&paste will do...
03:58<planetmaker>well... there are means to do it automatically. I just sent him an e-mail which basically is an assignment :-P
03:59<planetmaker>though phrased as a nice question :-)
03:59<Alberth>:)
03:59<planetmaker>about possibilities
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04:07<Ammler>afaik, it is just html/javascript
04:08<planetmaker>if that's so, then it's easy to commit as is.
04:08<Ammler>(the html file is the source)
04:09<planetmaker>Having it as a script would then be nicer, though :-)
04:09<Ammler>hmm, I see it more as a tool like gimp
04:10<planetmaker>well... it's a custom tool.
04:10<Alberth>planetmaker: http://www.openttd.org/en/screenshot/0.7/desert_island_opengfx_planetmaker_20090712
04:10<planetmaker>nice! :-)
04:11<Alberth>it looks familiar, no doubt :)
04:11<planetmaker>hehe. Indeed.
04:11<planetmaker>Meanwhile I extended it a bit, doing a few changes. Like increasing the probability that PBS features are shown, adding more vehicles
04:12<planetmaker>more obvious use of drive-through road stops
04:12<planetmaker>but all not visible on first glance, I guess
04:13<planetmaker>I still hope I can supply you with a new and nice title game somewhen :-)
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04:13<planetmaker>(and have a tropical OpenGFX test game at the same time :-) )
04:15<planetmaker>But making a good showcase is much more difficult than one would expect :-)
04:16<Alberth>afaik the current opening screen is also used as a test-bed, namely loading a very old game.
04:16<planetmaker>:-) That's something I cannot provide for sure.
04:18<planetmaker>as "showing all (or at least most) features" is mutually exclusive with "old save".
04:18<Alberth>yeah.
04:19<Alberth>also, it should probably look good both with the current graphics and the OpenGFX set.
04:19<planetmaker>sure. But I think that's not too difficult.
04:19<Alberth>(in case it isn't difficult enough :) )
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04:21<Alberth>maybe we should have a directory with user-supplied saves, or so.
04:21<planetmaker>:-)
04:21<Alberth>(that at least seems one of the simpler approaches)
04:21<planetmaker>he... and then the next idea: a random save is chosen as the title screen - if it is available :-)
04:22<Alberth>but first a bit of gui hacking :)
04:22<planetmaker>:-)
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05:08<dihedral>hehe - there is an issue in the maglev in opengfx
05:08<dihedral>:-D
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05:08<dihedral>look at the diagonal rails in that screenshot Alberth posted ^^
05:09<blathijs>dihedral: You probably mean the connection between diagonal and straight rails?
05:09<dihedral>just 1 pixel on each edge of the tile
05:09<dihedral>nope - between diagonal and diagonal
05:09<dihedral>http://media.openttd.org/images/screens/0.7/desert_island_opengfx_planetmaker_20090712.png
05:09<dihedral>left side
05:10<blathijs>Ah, there
05:10<blathijs>I was looking at the vertical one :-)
05:10<dihedral>1 pixel only
05:11<planetmaker>eh? I don't get what you hint at
05:11<dihedral>planetmaker, have a look at that image
05:11<dihedral>look at the diagonal maglev line at the left
05:11<planetmaker>I do. And...?
05:11<dihedral>look at the join of 2 tiles
05:12<dihedral>it's 1px off
05:12<planetmaker>you mean the lines perpendicular to the track?
05:12<dihedral>aye
05:12<planetmaker>hm... can be considered a bug probably, I guess
05:13<planetmaker>though no-one noticed so far :-P
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05:13<dihedral>bugs dont have to be noticed to be bugs :-P
05:13<Noldo>visual ones do
05:13<planetmaker>:-)
05:14<dihedral>then the entire maglev sprites are a bug :-D
05:14<dihedral>maglev rail sprites
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05:15<dihedral>looks like a ... "fliessband" :-P
05:16<planetmaker>conveyor belt :-)
05:16<dihedral>yes, that
05:16<dihedral>like at an airport... "here comes my case"
05:16<dihedral>hihi
05:17<blathijs>dihedral: Nobody said that things were a bug if you noticed them, that's the other way around :-p
05:17<blathijs>Just that it's not a bug if you don't notice it :-)
05:18<dihedral>nobody noticed some stuff in openttd that could cause crashes, yet they were still bugs :-D
05:18<planetmaker>something which doesn't cause an issue is not a bug.
05:19<dihedral>@seen Yexo
05:19<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 20 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Yexo> good evening
05:19<dihedral>planetmaker, ok, it does not cause the trains to derail
05:19<planetmaker>I meant the general case.
05:19<planetmaker>If it works, it isn't broken.
05:20<dihedral>i am just being silly ;-)
05:20<Noldo>I remember back in the day when I did my best to reproduce the "lonely wagon" bug
05:20<dihedral>heh
05:22<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/348 <-- dihedral
05:23<dihedral>^^
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05:39<Muxy>Kiss from Goulp !
05:43<Forked>¯\(º_o)/¯
05:43<blathijs>Muxy: Interesting hostname
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06:20<Muxy>blathijs: not as yours ;-)
06:20<blathijs>Muxy: It seems rather weird to be running IRC on an smtp server, is what I meant :-)
06:21<Muxy>ah, ok, but as i have only one ip...
06:22<Muxy>but the irc is running on another system than the smtp server...
06:23<blathijs>Ah, your SMTP server is also the gateway :-)
06:23<Muxy>no
06:24<Muxy>this is my router.
06:24<blathijs>Ah, and both are running behind the gateway
06:24<Muxy>that's it.
06:25<blathijs>In that case it's funny that the reverse name is smtp. I guess :-)
06:26<Muxy>well, as the smtp name is the hostname defined in the domains i own, i set the reverse on it, coz i think it's better to do it like this.
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08:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16967 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#0356]: assert when UFO tried to destroy rail
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08:35<LadyHawk>ufo?
08:35<LadyHawk>in ottd?
08:35<@Rubidium>yes, an uncontrolable flying object
08:36<TrueBrain>you never spot them?
08:36<TrueBrain>enable Disasters for once :p
08:36<+glx>the small one kills buses, the big one destroy rails
08:38<LadyHawk>lol
08:38<LadyHawk>i don't do disasters
08:43<@Belugas>hello
08:43<TrueBrain>Belugas!!!!!!!1111111111111
08:44<@Belugas>heeeeek!!!!
08:44<@Belugas>What have I done???
08:44<TrueBrain>I am just happy to see you :)
08:45<@Belugas>pffffiooouu... i was afraid you wold discover what i did to your bank account...
08:45<TrueBrain>haha, not much to do there .. :p
08:45<@Belugas>i'm happy to see you too ;)
08:46<TrueBrain>:) :) :)
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08:47<@Rubidium>ghehe... the philosophy of 'seeing' ;)
08:51<@Belugas>yup
08:52<@Belugas>when oceans are between us :(
08:52<@Belugas>sniff sniff
08:58<Sacro>UFOs, in my OpenTTD? It's more common than you think!
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10:11<OwenS>Aah SSH, warning me about my server's SSH certificate changing
10:11<TrueBrain>be glad he does that :)
10:11<TrueBrain>it at least once saved my ass :)
10:11<OwenS>:-)
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10:12<OwenS>Incidentally, I notice my known hosts file is full of crap
10:12<TrueBrain>:) They all are ;)
10:13<OwenS>Like a server which hasn't existed for 2 years :p
10:13<TrueBrain>happy happy designing the new database for WT3 .. pff ...
10:13<OwenS>Incidentally, my server just moved from UML to Xen
10:14<OwenS>(They've offered both for about 6months, it's just I only just got round to putting in a movement ticket)
10:15<OwenS>Or rather, they've offered Xen for 6 months and no longer sell UML to new customers
10:15<TrueBrain>we stopped selling linux-vservers and only sell ESXi nowedays :p
10:16<OwenS>I've had better Xen performance than VMWare, so meh :p
10:16<TrueBrain>VMWare Server, yes
10:16<TrueBrain>ESX(i), doubtful :p
10:16<OwenS>It's just Xen is a royal bitch to configure :p
10:16<TrueBrain>(I spent a good week running all kinds of extensive tests on both :p)
10:17<TrueBrain>oh, that too!
10:17<TrueBrain>ESX(i) works best via iSCSI fileserver .. so we are now happy using that :)
10:17<OwenS>I bet ESXi VPS cost more though :P
10:17<TrueBrain>I doubt that
10:17<TrueBrain>both are free software ;)
10:18<OwenS>I forgot they'd done that now :p
10:18<TrueBrain>well, very soon you want to buy a few packages from them
10:19<TrueBrain>oh, I forgot: I didn't compared Xen with ESXi, I compared Citrix XenServer with ESXi
10:19<TrueBrain>removed the part: bitch to configure ;)
10:21<OwenS>Eurgh! Licorice!
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10:25<OwenS>Note to self: Your deploying a VPS from a system image which is 14 months old. You're gonna have to do an apt-get update first before installing anything
10:25<@Rubidium>especially when you used debian-stable ;)
10:25<OwenS>Ubuntu 8.04 LTS
10:26<OwenS>Used to use CentOS but I find Yum too fragile. And slooow
10:26<@Rubidium>that shouldn't have that many changes
10:26<OwenS>Rubidium: No it doesn't. But package URLs have still changed because of updates
10:26<@Rubidium>that's nasty
10:27<OwenS>Old versions have gone from the repository. Is that a big issue? :P
10:27<TrueBrain>it looks like it is going to rain .. yet I need to go out to do some shopping .. what to do ...
10:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: don't go and order a pizza
10:28<TrueBrain>Rubidium: considering it :p
10:28<@Belugas># Here comes the Rain!!
10:28<@Belugas># Here she comes again
10:28<@Belugas># RAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIN yeah yeah
10:28<@Rubidium>OwenS: old versions yes, but so many that you need to update before you can install anything is a bad thing; it means that you had a lot of crap to start with
10:28<TrueBrain>buienradar tells me only a minor rainclowd will hit here in the next hour ..
10:29<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: the 'nice' feature of that is that it doesn't show clouds that aren't producing percipitation
10:29<TrueBrain>indeed
10:29<TrueBrain>the reason I said: rainclowd ;)
10:30<OwenS>Rubidium: Not really. I had 36 out of date packages, which downloaded in about 2 seconds :P All I needed before I could install stuff though was an update to download package manifests
10:32<@Rubidium>oh, that's reasonable, although assuming a server with a fair amount of stuff installed
10:33<OwenS>They deploy a very bare bones system
10:33<@Rubidium>(not that it's the 36 packages of a 'empty' install)
10:33<OwenS>Not even a mail server
10:33<@Rubidium>hmm, then 36 is quite a lot
10:34<OwenS>They update their images when the distros release new CDs. In the case of 8.04 LTS, they don't make new CDs... so it's an image from April 08
10:37<@Rubidium>that sucks
10:37<OwenS>It's the same situation you'd be in on a physical server
10:38<@Rubidium>even debian (fairly) regularly releases a new set of CDs
10:39<OwenS>At least I think that's the case. I'm not sure. The image may be newer
10:39<@Rubidium>it even updates oldstable images
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10:59<OwenS>I have a slight issue with Solaris zones
10:59<OwenS>The host machine they're running on now has 15 network interfaces
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11:28<TrueBrain>who here uses GetText?
11:28-!-tdev [~udev@p508EBFE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:28<frosch123>as developer yes; as packager or translator no
11:29<TrueBrain>well .. in Django, gettext files can contain %(variable)s
11:29<TrueBrain>is this normal gettext something, or did Django define that?
11:29<tdev>its a python thing
11:29<frosch123>never saw that :)
11:29<TrueBrain>(designing WT3.1 database, and I wonder why I need to add for GetText support)
11:29<TrueBrain>howdie tdev
11:29<+glx>I only saw standard % stuff
11:29<FloSoft>TrueBrain: its a gettext thing
11:30<tdev>print "%(varname)s" % {varname:"value"}
11:30<TrueBrain>mixing signals here :)
11:30<tdev>hi TrueBrain :)
11:30<TrueBrain>tdev: I know it is Python, the syntax, but I wonder if gettext supports anything like it
11:30<tdev>i dont think so ;)
11:30<FloSoft>TrueBrain: you can change position of placeholders, but python added some extra functionality
11:30<TrueBrain>tdev: http://85.17.162.189/wiki/webtranslator <- any feedback is welcome ;)
11:31<TrueBrain>I read over the brainstorm page of yours, and I couldn't find anything I didn't already have :p :p
11:31<tdev>TrueBrain: will look later, food now :)
11:31<+glx>FloSoft: so it's for "bla %s %s" with inversion in the translation ?
11:31<TrueBrain>PHP uses %s and %d and stuff
11:32<TrueBrain>but is it gettext, or PHP?
11:32<FloSoft>TrueBrain: that are placeholders for sprintf, the order of these can be changed when using gettext
11:32<TrueBrain>how?
11:33<TrueBrain>(I know too little about gettext :p)
11:34<FloSoft>TrueBrain: look into manual of gettext, there it should stand somewhere, never used it by myself
11:34<frosch123>he, the way I understood it, reordering paramters cannot work :)
11:34<TrueBrain>I read several packages that do that
11:34<FloSoft>oh very simple: %1$s %2$s and so on...
11:34<TrueBrain>like quercus
11:35<FloSoft>frosch123: sure, gettext has replacements for most *printf-functions to interpret those commands
11:35<TrueBrain>FloSoft: I read several syntax for that already ... dunno if it is gettext which does it
11:35<FloSoft>you add a number$ between the placeholder
11:35<frosch123>FloSoft: so you have to use sprintf everywhere, when printf is not sufficient
11:36<frosch123>?
11:36<FloSoft>it has replacements vor sprintf, printf, vprintf and many more variants
11:37<+glx>http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#c_002dformat-Flag
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11:38<TrueBrain>glx: yeah, just found that ;)
11:38<TrueBrain>tnx
11:38<TrueBrain>it just clearly indicate it only works in printf statements :p
11:38<FloSoft>and all other types of format-specified functions (sprintf, vprintf, as i said) they all use the same type of "engine"
11:39<TrueBrain>FloSoft: you gave me the idea that gettext replaced printf
11:39<TrueBrain>which is not what is happening :)
11:39<TrueBrain>cool, gettext also supports plurals
11:40-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has joined #openttd
11:40<+glx>of course it does :)
11:40<z-MaTRiX>hey
11:40<TrueBrain>hello z-MaTRiX
11:40<z-MaTRiX>\o/
11:40<@Rubidium>oh... printing 64 bits integers with gettext is going to be fun ;)
11:40<FloSoft>glx: if not it crashes *lol*
11:41<FloSoft>Rubidium: why?
11:41<@Rubidium>what's the printf format for 64 bits integers?
11:41-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.181.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:41<FloSoft>Rubidium: it only adds a number$ inside the format
11:41<FloSoft>Rubidium: ld or something like that
11:42<+glx>Rubidium: depends on the platform/OS
11:42<@Rubidium>FloSoft: %lld or %I64d depending on your neighbourhood ;)
11:42<OwenS>The latter is MS is it not? :p
11:42<+glx>of course it is :)
11:42<@Rubidium>which means 2 translations
11:42<FloSoft>Rubidium: yea okay, but its not the problem? you only write %1$lld
11:43<FloSoft>even msvc accepts lld
11:43<@Rubidium>FloSoft: not really...
11:43<+glx>but it doesn't work
11:43<FloSoft>oh, okay -.-
11:44<OwenS>Took a while for WINE to implement 64d also
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13:06<TrueBrain>tdev: done with your food? :)
13:06<tdev>yes
13:06<tdev>*looking at your URL*
13:06<TrueBrain>;)
13:07<tdev>looks good
13:08<tdev>why not host at any common system?
13:08<TrueBrain>what do you mean?
13:08<tdev>google code for example
13:08<TrueBrain>I hate GoogleCode
13:08<TrueBrain>(I hate Google, I don't trust them)
13:08<TrueBrain>and RedMine is a very common system
13:08<tdev>hehe, ok
13:09<tdev>google knows everything about you anyways
13:09<tdev>'privacy is dead, come over it' <- watch that
13:09<TrueBrain>you have no privacy on the Internet
13:09<TrueBrain>I completely agree with that
13:09<TrueBrain>but in this case ... Google terms of use scare me to dead
13:09<@Rubidium>tdev: ever read the "Google owns everything" clauses in their terms of service?
13:10<tdev>yup
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13:11<tdev>gtg, cu later :)
13:11<@Rubidium>so you know that if they want they can own your stuff if they want to, right?
13:11<tdev>well, let them i dont care
13:11<TrueBrain>tdev: bah, I was hoping for more feedback :p :p
13:11<tdev>TrueBrain: what should i say to an empty redmine page? :|
13:11<TrueBrain>tdev: the wiki pages I pointed you to?
13:12<TrueBrain>they contain concept and database layout? :)
13:12<tdev>ah, overlooked that ;)
13:12<tdev>*reading*
13:12<@Rubidium>tdev: and I hope you're not storing important mail at gmail
13:12<TrueBrain>.... :p
13:13<tdev>yeah, i bought google apps actually ;)
13:14<tdev>TrueBrain: too much web2.0 for me in there :|
13:14-!-sunkan [~sunkan@c-4f6617e4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -]
13:14<TrueBrain>in where?
13:14<TrueBrain>in wiki pages?!
13:14<tdev>in your ideas ;)
13:14<tdev>about the authors
13:14<TrueBrain>where in my idea is web2.0, besides the frontend itself?
13:14<tdev>i would want different user levels
13:14<TrueBrain>(which is 10% of WT3.1)
13:15<tdev>also
13:15<tdev>dont coulple it hard to subversion, thats not a good design IMHO
13:15<tdev>write an interface for multiple backends
13:15<TrueBrain>it isn't
13:16<tdev>i would want to store data in sqlite
13:16<TrueBrain>currently it accepts any VCS, but I am even considering removing that
13:16<TrueBrain>did you read all pages? :p
13:16<tdev>half way through
13:16<TrueBrain>;)
13:16<tdev>and im getting killed if i dont leave
13:16<tdev>will look
13:16<TrueBrain>leave
13:16<TrueBrain>an other time :)
13:16<tdev>later *bookmark*
13:16<tdev>cu
13:16-!-tdev [~udev@p508EBFE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com]
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13:42<Wolf01>hello
13:43<TrueBrain>howdie Wolf01
13:43<Wolf01>fine thank you ;)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16968 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 14 changes by silentStatic
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by kinglee
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: malay - 26 changes by rionix88
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: persian - 2 changes by 100ra
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13:51*Belugas yawns
13:51<@Belugas>again and again
13:52-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
13:53<Benny>Ooh, Lakie. :)
13:53<Lakie>yes.... ?
13:54<Benny>Never seen you on IRC before.
13:54<Lakie>Been here for a long time
13:54<Benny>Well, I've never SEEN you.
13:54<TrueBrain>you still don't
13:55<Benny>Um, well.. I can at least see his name.
13:55<Benny>Or nickname..
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13:57<buckethead>hello people
13:58<buckethead>too bad lobster and dave arent here
13:59<buckethead>would've been fun
13:59<planetmaker>...
13:59<planetmaker>I guess go to #tycoon
13:59<buckethead>does your chat window flick on and off??
14:00<buckethead>cos mine does
14:00<buckethead>and it hurts me eyes
14:00<planetmaker>then get a proper client
14:00<planetmaker>or configure it properly. Sure it doesn't here.
14:01<+glx>using a real client would be a first step
14:01-!-buckethead [~buckethea@dhcp-077-250-114-225.chello.nl] has quit []
14:01<planetmaker>hehe :-)
14:02<+glx>This client is a Java application supporting the following CTCP tags : ...
14:02<planetmaker>:-) And now he chats away in #tycoon
14:02<+glx>flickering is not surprising with java
14:04<planetmaker>true
14:07<Ammler>WT3.1 useable for newgrfs, too?
14:08<Ammler>Redmine is nice :-)
14:10<Ammler>TrueBrain: which server do you use to run it?
14:10<TrueBrain>Ammler: why?
14:10<TrueBrain>and yes, RedMine is nice
14:10<Ammler>just wondering, I use apache
14:10<TrueBrain>I dunno about NewGRFs, never interested myself in it :p
14:10<TrueBrain>ah, which httpd
14:10<TrueBrain>lighttpd
14:10<Ammler>with fastcgi then, I assume?
14:10<TrueBrain>yup
14:11<Ammler>there are some "special" ror servers
14:12<TrueBrain>yeah ... but I also want 'general' httpd :p
14:12<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
14:12<Ammler>:-)
14:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: but if you are interested in having WT3.1 work for NewGRFs, spend some time on how it works and see the website to see if it ss supported
14:15<OwenS>Hmm... I may have to install Redmine behind nginx =)
14:15<TrueBrain>I like that Redmine is really fast :p
14:15<TrueBrain>just ... too much bloat for my taste
14:16<TrueBrain>I can't remove a few thingies I don't like
14:16<Ammler>planetmaker: might know a lot about translations already in both areas ;-)
14:16<OwenS>TrueBrain: Which do you prefer then, Redmine or Trac? :p
14:16<TrueBrain>OwenS: RedMine over Trac
14:16<TrueBrain>Trac is ... SLOW!
14:16<OwenS>I agree.. And the ram consumption... omg the ram consumption!
14:17<Ammler>so does that mean, python slow, ruby fast?
14:17<TrueBrain>nope
14:17<TrueBrain>Trac slow, RedMine fast
14:17<TrueBrain>that is all you can say
14:17<Ammler>:-9
14:17<OwenS>Python generally is faster than Ruby
14:17<TrueBrain>most benchmarks tend to say that, yes
14:17<Ammler>trac has a bit nicer source viewer.
14:17<OwenS>At least until recently CRuby was slower than JRuby. Thats impressively slow! You can write a faster Ruby interpreter in Java than the C ruby interpreter...
14:18<Ammler>but that might be, because redmine supports all well known vcs'
14:18<OwenS>Yeah. Git support <3
14:19<Ammler>well, not really well,
14:19<TrueBrain>either way, I need people to comment on my database design :p
14:21<OwenS>Erm, OpenVPN, when is your tun adaptor coming up?
14:22<OwenS>When I punch a hole in my firewall. Oops :p
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14:23<TrueBrain>Ammler: do you know how you enable the tree navigation thingy in RedMine? (for the wiki)
14:25<OwenS>Anyone got a clue why a supposedly business router includes firewall hole punchimg options for "Quake III Arena Server"?
14:26<TrueBrain>oeh, found it :)
14:26<TrueBrain>OwenS: because every sane company runs that game!
14:26<OwenS>"Motorhead Server" - I thought Motorhead were a band?!
14:26<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: how do you think you keep your sysadmins pleased?
14:26<@Rubidium>uhm... more OwenS :)
14:27<Ammler>TrueBrain: you mean sub pages?
14:27<OwenS>Or why said router is loosing my OpenVPN entries from the list?
14:28<TrueBrain>Ammler: nevermind .. Rename contained the Parent function I was looking for :p
14:28<OwenS>Oh right... Theres a unobvious filter by category thing
14:29<Ammler>are you able to make subpage? Didn't work the last time, I tried.
14:31<TrueBrain>http://85.17.162.189/wiki/webtranslator/Plugin_OpenTTD <- I meant the crumble path
14:31<Ammler>oh, you run the stable
14:31<OwenS>Yaay! My remote server can ping 172.16.0.4!
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14:40<TrueBrain>Ammler: do you know how I can make 'Home' direct to a wiki page?
14:41<frosch123>hmm, why is it so annoying to only have one display at home when you are used to two most of the day :(
14:41-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
14:44*Belugas knows the feeling, frosch123
14:45*frosch123 tries to arrange the windows :/
14:46<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Speaking of welsh, have you seen the Dragons?
14:46<TrueBrain>frosch123: reason I have 2 at home :p
14:47<@Belugas>TrueBrain, i don't have 2 screends at home but I can record stuff, me :P
14:48<TrueBrain>GRR
14:48<TrueBrain>I still don't have a mic .. it is too sad to be true
14:50<@Belugas>one day, one day. It's just not among your priorities :)
14:51-!-keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:51<Sacro>Prof_Frink: dragons?
14:52<TrueBrain>Belugas: no, I just forget :p
14:52<TrueBrain>WT3.1 is more important now :)
14:53<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Dragons.
14:53<TrueBrain>I love how a page like RedMine can give your project profesionality with a few clicks :p
14:54-!-Benny [~chatzilla@40.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.12/2009070611]]
14:56<Ammler>[20:40] <TrueBrain> Ammler: do you know how I can make 'Home' direct to a wiki page? <-- check routes.rb
14:56<Ammler>in config
15:01-!-keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
15:02<George>Does anyone know, why FS2673 is closed today, but in in r15592 ?
15:05-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
15:05<@Belugas>maybe the commiter of 15592 forgot to close FS when commiting?
15:06<@Belugas>in that case, it would be frosch123
15:08-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
15:09<frosch123>I did not close it intentionally. the task was started as feature request, later a bug was posted as example. the bug was fixed, the feature remained unsolved
15:12<@Belugas>haaa.. good explanation
15:14<frosch123>btw. George: do mb's plans with adding a "oversized" cargo class match with you development?
15:15<George>Sorry, what is Oversized class?
15:15<planetmaker>:-D
15:15<planetmaker>that's an answer in itself
15:15<frosch123>lol
15:16<frosch123>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSCargoTypes <- mb added lots of imaginary information to both the ecs cargo and usual cargo page
15:16<frosch123>but it does not seem to refer to any actually existing
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15:18<George>Strange. GLAS Glass 0020 Piece goods; 0400 oversized
15:18<George>I do not know about it
15:18<TrueBrain>I just tried to watch the movie Supernovae ... I turned it off ...
15:18<TrueBrain>omg ...
15:19<George>I also can't understand, what is the profit to have a clas for a single cargo
15:19<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: TooMuchIncorrectnessException?
15:19<planetmaker>:-D sounds like
15:19<TrueBrain>in 30 minutes I have seen about 15 things which could not be done
15:19<frosch123>George: Vehicles also have it
15:19<TrueBrain>to start, our sun going supernovae
15:19<@Rubidium>hmm, no that can't be it... incorrectness isn't an exception for movies
15:20<George>frosch123: I suppose vehicles is the only cargo to have it
15:20<TrueBrain>Rubidium: you can overdo it :)
15:20<George>Glass looks lioke a mistake
15:21<frosch123>hehe, so am I correct that you do not plan to add any oversized-class usage to your vectors?
15:21-!-PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has joined #openttd
15:22<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you shouldn't watch anything "movie" or "series" with any expectations w.r.t. any correctness
15:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I can take a lot
15:22<TrueBrain>but there are limits
15:22<planetmaker>Rubidium: one needn't have an expectation there, but ^^
15:22<George>I do not see a problem to provide any new class, but I would like to understand it first
15:22<TrueBrain>a whole city, but only the hospital loses power because of a solar flare
15:23<TrueBrain>the lights go off for 2 secs
15:23<TrueBrain>and then everything is damaged
15:23<planetmaker>George: I think it means things like wind power rotor blades, etc...
15:23<TrueBrain>.... what kind of crappy hostpital is that?!
15:23<frosch123>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Cargos <- at least he defined it :)
15:23<planetmaker>anything transported by means of exceptional transportation
15:26<George>frosch123: I thing this is the right way to use classes
15:27<George>I think MB should have a topic to discuss thing like that with other GRF coders. Or does he has one and I missed it?
15:27<frosch123>which way? :o
15:27<George>frosch123: to use a class for one or two cargoes
15:28<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44248 <- no, there is no topic by mb. there is only mine complaining about him :p
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15:32<GregVernon>hmm, how much do people usually make yearly with buses?
15:32<GregVernon>I mean, like per bus?
15:32<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:32<OwenS>Oh hell
15:32<George>thank's to pointing it! It would also be cool if you PM me about such a topic ;) when it was created to be sure I see it
15:32<OwenS>Routing does my head in
15:32<planetmaker>due to the limited amount of available classes it would indeed make sense to discuss such introductions, though, beforehand.
15:33<planetmaker>GregVernon: depends very much so on route, cargo, newgrfs, inflation, game date...
15:33<OwenS>I have a feeling I need to change the networking configuration of my zones to make this work..
15:33-!-PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:33<GregVernon>ah, I see...
15:33<GregVernon>btw, theres inflation in the game?
15:34<planetmaker>depends
15:34<Alberth>if you don't turn it off, yes
15:34<GregVernon>well thats awesome
15:35<Alberth>I wouldn't know, I always turn it off :)
15:35<planetmaker>I usually turn it off
15:35<planetmaker>one thing it makes easier though: to reach the 10k income per vehicle in the score chart
15:37<Alberth>I never reach the year 2050 either :)
15:38<planetmaker>hm, no? I frequently do that, though :-)
15:38*frosch123 only reaches it when testing something using fast forward in a tiny window :/
15:38<Wolf01>bye
15:38-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db074e3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:38<Alberth>bye
15:38-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host128-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
15:38<planetmaker>cu wolf01
15:38<planetmaker>drat
15:38<Alberth>quick enough this time :)
15:38<planetmaker>:-)
15:40<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=805661#p805661 <-- frosch123 you might know the answer :-) - which indeed is interesting IMO
15:40<OwenS>Arg how the hell do I do this?!
15:42<George>frosch123: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44248&p=805680#p805680
15:43<planetmaker>George: to require that a cargo is only member of one class is IMO not logical
15:43<planetmaker>nor required
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15:44<George>I mean value of a mask, not vaule of a bit
15:44<@Rubidium>
15:44<planetmaker>you mean: the label should always keep it's cargo classes?
15:45-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:45<planetmaker>that's something I'd like to agree to, too
15:45<George>For example, FERT Fertiliser is0070, but never 0010;0020;0040
15:45<George>planetmaker: yes
15:45<frosch123>at least it would keep vehicle refit mask sane :)
15:45<planetmaker>indeed ^
15:46-!-FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
15:47<planetmaker>but that's now how I understand it. It makes sense to list the respective classes individually on that wiki page
15:47<planetmaker>s/now/not/
15:48<George>planetmaker: do you mean to move them from page http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Cargos to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=CargoTypes?
15:49<planetmaker>no, I don't think. Though I see arguments for doing so.
15:50<planetmaker>I meant a table entry like " 0020 Piece goods; 0400 oversized " is nicer than "0084 Express, refrigerated " in the cargo class column
15:51<planetmaker>because the first case gives you the numbers which you need to add up, if you code a specific vehicle
15:51<planetmaker>and you might want to give it only one of those numbers :-)
15:58<George>if you mean to write "0004 Express + 0080 refrigerated", than it is fine
15:59<George>but writing "0004 Express; 0080 Refrigerated" is not good, because it can be read as "0004 Express || 0080 Refrigerated", that is very bad
15:59<planetmaker>yes, I meant the first. I never understood it the way ^
15:59<George>I did
16:00<planetmaker>because - correct me if I'm wrong - that's not possible to implement.
16:00<George>after MB changed the page I understood he plans "||"
16:00<planetmaker>a cargo can have several classes assigned.
16:01<planetmaker>And can be transported, if a vehicle offers to transport the classes
16:01<George>It is possible to have 0004 in one implementation of the ECS and 0080 in the other
16:01<George>It kills Vehicle set
16:01<George>(Refit masks)
16:01<planetmaker>having different implementations in different industries, I agree completely with you, yes
16:01<planetmaker>that's a big no-no
16:05<frosch123>hehe, via pm mb also told me that goods shall become piece goods :) (they are only express; the wiki is wrong currently)
16:05<frosch123>chaning ttdp and ottd is even more no-no :)
16:05<planetmaker>:-)
16:06<planetmaker>from this discussion here, it's my impression that he's heading to breaking all vehicle sets by messing with the definition of the cargo classes for existing labels?
16:06<George>frosch123: Then MB should defin PGOD for piece goods
16:06<planetmaker>(and from what I read in the wiki's history and the forums)
16:06<planetmaker>George: indeed
16:07<frosch123>well, so, if anyone is able to find a revert button on ttdp wiki :) I failed
16:07<DaleStan>There's a "rollback" option somewhere.
16:07<@Rubidium>haven't you all figured that mb's wishes must be turned into rules by the others yet?
16:08*DaleStan is suddenly tempted to add a feature to TTDPatch that disables a GRF if an official cargo label has classes that don't match what they should.
16:08<OwenS>planetmaker: Does the ttDP wiki not allow you to edit a historical revision?
16:09<planetmaker>OwenS: not that I know. But I didn't look for that.
16:09<planetmaker>But of course it has history.
16:09<planetmaker>DaleStan: that actually sounds like a feature request well worth considering
16:09*DaleStan is also tempted to do similar things to any cargo classed as both "piece" and "bulk".
16:10<OwenS>planetmaker: On MediaWiki, you edit then save a historical revision to revert
16:11<OwenS>OK. HOW THE HELL HAVE I CONVERTED MY CONFIG TO MAC FORMAT?!
16:11<planetmaker>DaleStan: that again is IMO too specific :-) But defining the class definitions by a standard file - why not?
16:11<@Rubidium>by stripping \n instead of \r
16:11<OwenS>Rubidium: It was in unix format :p
16:12<DaleStan>Using unix2mac? :p
16:12<OwenS>I assume I caught Alt+M while saving in nano
16:14-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-3-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
16:14<Xaroth>that's a whole lot away from ctrl+x :P
16:15<Xaroth>or ctrl o, for that matter
16:17-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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16:20<Eddi|zuHause>the keys are right next to each other...
16:23-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDD9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:27<OwenS>It's a brilliant typo, I agree..
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>brb
16:28-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:33<Xaroth>getting pissed off at this whole LDAP thing
16:34<frosch123>night
16:34-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff894.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:35*TrueBrain gives Xaroth a big hug
16:35<Xaroth>TrueBrain: got dune working yet? :o
16:35<TrueBrain>nope
16:35<TrueBrain>stopped working on it
16:35<Xaroth>o_O
16:35<Xaroth>no Dune 2.0?
16:35<Xaroth>OpenDune
16:36<TrueBrain>maybe in time :)
16:36<Xaroth>woot
16:36<TrueBrain>but those darn vehicles don't want to move
16:36<TrueBrain>and I have NO CLUE why not :(
16:36<Xaroth>give it a week, then look back at it
16:36<@Rubidium>after ~20 years they're a bit rusty
16:37<TrueBrain>Xaroth: kind of the problem: time won't change it ..
16:37<TrueBrain>I need to trace it somehow
16:37<Xaroth>yeh
16:37<Xaroth>but yer probably too focussed on it now
16:37<TrueBrain>but okay, now first WT3.1 :)
16:37<TrueBrain>got the interest of Debian translators ... :p
16:37<Xaroth>o_O
16:38<Xaroth>so give it a year or two and 4 more versions of it, and we'll see 3.1 in ubuntu \o/ </sarcasm>
16:38<TrueBrain>haha :)
16:38-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B746B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:39<Xaroth>just like it's still got ottd 6.3 as stable latest
16:39<TrueBrain>there is a difference :)
16:39<TrueBrain>WT3 won't be in the package manager
16:39<TrueBrain>it is a tool to use to translate stuff
16:39<Xaroth>true
16:39<TrueBrain>ubuntu for example uses launchpad.net
16:39<TrueBrain>which, for the record, sucks
16:40<TrueBrain>but is better than what Debian uses now :s
16:40<Xaroth>lol
16:40<Xaroth>yay, php-ldap finally works
16:40<TrueBrain>concratz :)
16:40-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@user-5af13a46.wfd107.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:40<Xaroth>now, time to go be lazy and plug smarty into this
16:41<Xaroth>save me from writing my own
16:41<@Belugas>plug? someone said plug?
16:41<Xaroth>not buttplug, PLUG
16:42<@Belugas>as in: PLUG THE GUITAR, SAM!
16:42<OwenS>TrueBrain: Launchpad probably sucks but will also probably be improved :p
16:42<Xaroth>Belugas: guitar's unplugged atm.
16:42<TrueBrain>OwenS: ever seen how fucking slow that page is?
16:42<Xaroth>not that it matters i can't even play guitar :P
16:43<@Belugas>mine is always pluggued. just... at home :(
16:43<OwenS>TrueBrain: No. I've never spent much time on Launchpad :p
16:43<TrueBrain>Belugas: poor thing
16:43<TrueBrain>OwenS: you need a lot of time for a simple visit :p
16:43<@Belugas>naaa... will be there in a few moments ;)
16:43<TrueBrain>hmm .. dosbox IRC channel is more empty than this channel
16:43<OwenS>Now, if I could figure out why this traffic won't route!
16:44<@Belugas>and now...
16:44<Xaroth>Belugas: teach me how to play guitar kthx.
16:44<@Belugas>BYE BYE
16:44<@Rubidium>night Belugas
16:44<@Belugas>Xaroth, sure, got a few weeks to spear?
16:44<Xaroth>nn Belugas.
16:44*Belugas is now gone
16:44<Xaroth>Belugas: do weekends count? :P
16:44<TrueBrain>bye Belugas :)
16:46<Nite_Owl>Belugas is leaving early <gasps>
16:46<OwenS>ROUTE DAMN TRAFFIC ROUTE! :p
16:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16969 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Normalizing transparency gui widget numbers.
16:48-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f960:b2b9:ce95:9453] has joined #openttd
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16:52<TrueBrain>ah, Gentoo did not compile the 'heavy' debugger for DosBox ..
16:52<TrueBrain>this could be interesting :p
16:53<@Rubidium>gentoo and compile? so it's rather you didn't compile DosBox with heavy debugger
16:53<Xaroth>wait, gentooooooooo?
16:53<TrueBrain>for the people who want to read into every word I type:
16:54<TrueBrain>Gentoo ebuild with +debug does not configure dosbox to use the heavy debugger, in result it compiles a version with the normal debugger, which doesn't allow memory breakpoints
16:54<TrueBrain>better Rubidium?
16:54<TrueBrain>or you want a cookie with it?
16:54<@Rubidium>only physical cookies, not those 'fake' browser cookies
16:54<TrueBrain>and those you can't have
16:55<Xaroth>TrueBrain: watching Star Trek.. again :P
16:55<TrueBrain>who?
16:55<Xaroth>out of boredom from LDAP >:(
16:55<@Rubidium>doctor who!
16:56<TrueBrain>yeah
16:56<TrueBrain>I am overloading my HD with IO :p
16:56<TrueBrain>bah, I had to join freenode for dosbox
16:56<TrueBrain>but nobody is there
16:56<TrueBrain>and freenode annoys me already
16:59<@Rubidium>you mean it's less active than this channel?
16:59-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
17:01<Alberth>they have channels were nothing is said for at least 24 hours, just a few (about 10) people logging on and later off again.
17:02<TrueBrain>Rubidium: there are just a few people there ...
17:02<TrueBrain>40 people, to be exact
17:02<@Rubidium>Alberth: yeah, like #openttd.wt2
17:02<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that channel is removed now, not? :)
17:02<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: don't know; I've got no authority to remove it
17:03<TrueBrain>I removed DorpsGek from it
17:03<TrueBrain>and I guess Belugas left by now :p
17:04<@Rubidium>yeah, it's empty just not 'killed'
17:04<Alberth>Rubidium: that is to be expected for such a specific program (unlike WT3.1 :) ), I was talking about python-nl. You'd think there are more users for that topic
17:05<+glx>#openttd is locked and redirected to ##openttd (which is still not empty :) )
17:06<TrueBrain>hmm .. just figured out the memory I was worried about in dune2, is random in dosbox too .. every run other data :p
17:08-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<OwenS>TrueBrain: In other words DosBox doesn't zero it's heap
17:08<TrueBrain>OwenS: no, it is not that ... I think it is related to the timer or something
17:08<OwenS>Aah. Cause if it didn't, I'd be wondering how it acquired it... I mean, the kernel gives out zero'd pages
17:13<TrueBrain>what is very weird, that I have data in my memory at a given location .. and dosbox never touches it :s
17:13<Forked>boink.
17:14<Muxy>zim
17:15<TrueBrain>oeh, someone in #dosbox helped me :)
17:15<TrueBrain>yeah!
17:15<TrueBrain>now I have to leave freenode ..
17:15<OwenS>lol why?
17:16<TrueBrain>because it gives me the creeps!
17:16<+glx>because he hate freenode :)
17:16<TrueBrain>I so dislike freenode
17:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r16970 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Transparency window uses nested widgets only.
17:16<TrueBrain>within 2 minutes I got spam
17:16<TrueBrain>something about that I NEED to register myself at nickserv
17:16<TrueBrain>really, wtf? And if I dont? Will you punish me?
17:17<TrueBrain>spank me like you mean it?
17:17<OwenS>I was gonna say OFTC did the same to me but it actually complained I was trying to identify against the unregistered nick OwenSX48BD...
17:17<TrueBrain>:p
17:17<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Christel might ;)
17:18<TrueBrain>OwenS: OFTC tells me I have a name which is registered, and I should identify if it is me
17:18<TrueBrain>that is acceptable
17:18<TrueBrain>and it does it via a nice notice
17:18<OwenS>I'm waiting until I have two ghosts and have to use OwenSX28AC [<-- Using microcontroller names is fun]
17:18<TrueBrain>not via a message I get in all channels :s
17:19<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: I like to sound of that, where can I sign up?
17:19<Prof_Frink>Of course, you might get Dave2 instead. That would be bad.
17:20<TrueBrain>yup
17:20<TrueBrain>it seems you hang out too much on freenode
17:20<Prof_Frink>Worse. I hang out in #lugradio.
17:21<Yexo>good night
17:21-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: bye]
17:23<Nite_Owl>see Prof_Frink you frightened away Yexo with your #lugradio reference
17:25-!-Zorni [~zorn@e177235115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )]
17:27<TrueBrain>haha, I think I found the problem of my memory differences ... :)
17:28<OwenS>:)
17:28<OwenS>I'm kinda disturbed
17:28<OwenS>No spam for 24h
17:28<TrueBrain>from me? :p
17:28<OwenS>No, e-mail
17:28<TrueBrain>bah, and I just started my mail bomber
17:28<TrueBrain>sorry ...
17:28<OwenS>lol
17:29<OwenS>Enabling the SpamHaus Policy Blocklist worked... And it only blocks IP ranges which the owners of say shouldn't be making direct SMTP transactions anyway :p
17:29<TrueBrain>I have programmed my own filtering system
17:29<TrueBrain>works perfectly :)
17:29<OwenS>I.E. it blocks end user DHCP pools, AKA the vast swathes of infected Windows machines =)
17:29<TrueBrain>we offer 99% spam-free mailboxes :)
17:29<TrueBrain>truth is around 99.9%
17:30<Alberth>OwenS: simple but effective
17:30<TrueBrain>12% is hold by SPF record, 75% by blacklist/blocklist
17:30<TrueBrain>the rest is greylist, SMTP errors, ...
17:30<OwenS>Reminds me to enable SPF in Postfix. And re-add my SPF records
17:31<TrueBrain>SPF is _very_ useful
17:31<TrueBrain>if you want to email me direct, use SPF :p Else you are delayed for at least 5 minutes :)
17:31<TrueBrain>same goes for all openttd.org mail traffic :p
17:31<TrueBrain>just configure it correctly .. I see too many broken SPF records :p
17:31<OwenS>My SPF record is nice and simple to. "All mail comes from my MX. If it doesn't, it's not from me"
17:31<TrueBrain>it should be like that
17:32<TrueBrain>I see SPF records which say: mail can come from any server
17:32<TrueBrain>yeah .... useful ....
17:32<OwenS>Ouch
17:32<TrueBrain>if you go for softfail, I can understand that
17:32<OwenS>Incidentally, shouldn't MX eventually be replaced by SVR? :p
17:32<TrueBrain>hardfail can be nasty
17:32<TrueBrain>but *?
17:32<TrueBrain>like ever
17:33<OwenS>I mean, everything else is SVR these days...
17:33<TrueBrain>what uses SVR?
17:33<TrueBrain>XMPP
17:33<TrueBrain>that is the only one I know of
17:33<OwenS>Kerberos
17:33<OwenS>LDAP
17:33<TrueBrain>but oaky .. why not put http in SVR?
17:33<TrueBrain>and .. well .. everything in SVR :p
17:34<OwenS>_http._tcp.domain.com SVR server.domain.com 80 10 heh
17:34<TrueBrain>SIP uses SVR too .. sometimes
17:34<TrueBrain>I mean, SVR redesignes the whole DNS within the DNS protocol
17:34<TrueBrain>I think it is silly
17:35<OwenS>In XMPP/MX type roles it works well
17:37-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-3-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:38<Alberth>bye all
17:38<TrueBrain>night Alberth
17:38<OwenS>The purpose of SVR is to allow multiple services on different servers to share a domain :p
17:38-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:40<TrueBrain>OwenS: I guess it could by design also do things like correct Round Robin :p
17:42<OwenS>Random but tangenitally related tangent: I've always wanted to build a massively distributed DHT based caching system
17:43<OwenS>Basically using P2P technology to cache static content at the ISP level
17:43<TrueBrain>DHT? Remind me?
17:43<OwenS>Distributed Hash Table
17:43<TrueBrain>why would you want that?
17:44<OwenS>URL gets fed into cache -> DHT performs lookup, and if it's in the cache somewhere in the world, can grab it without going to the origin
17:44<TrueBrain>ask an ISP if you can do that ;)
17:45-!-[1]GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd
17:45<TrueBrain>if I was such an ISP, I would let you :)
17:45<OwenS>Need to design it first of course :p
17:45<TrueBrain>oeh, memory problem 'solved' :) I read the wohle EXE file in memory, instead of only the part indicated ;)
17:45<OwenS>Hehe
17:45<+glx>overwriting vital part of the memory ?
17:46<TrueBrain>glx: no, it doesn't really matter
17:46<TrueBrain>just comparing was harder
17:46<+glx>ha
17:46<TrueBrain>I doubt it fixed my rpoblem
17:46<TrueBrain>but we can check :)
17:46<OwenS>Each 1U unit would probably contain about 256 single chip nodes each of which participates in the cache system
17:47<TrueBrain>OwenS: I once designed a webserver based on RISC CPUs
17:47<TrueBrain>you put N of such chips in a single server
17:47<TrueBrain>and it can host tons of static files
17:47<TrueBrain>for 3W per chip :p
17:48<TrueBrain>nah, dune2 unit movement problems still not fixed :(
17:48<OwenS>These would be special RISC CPUs with useful functions... Like XOR a 128-bit value
17:49<OwenS>Each unit would probably also contain a few "L2 cache" nodes with a blob of SD RAM attached
17:49<Xaroth>OwenS: you're keeping TrueBrain from making OpenDune :P
17:49<OwenS>lol
17:49<TrueBrain>LOL
17:49<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I don't see you contributing
17:50<TrueBrain>:p
17:50<Xaroth>TrueBrain: I'm trying to figure out C/C++ :/
17:50<TrueBrain>fair enough :p
17:50<Xaroth>seeing it's more likely of me learning C/C++ than you learning C# :P
17:50<Xaroth>and that's saying a LOT
17:50<TrueBrain>hehe :)
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17:50<TrueBrain>okay, I have a dosbox cpu dump
17:51<TrueBrain>and a libemu cpu dump (libemu = my emulator)
17:51<TrueBrain>just .. in different formats :p
17:51<OwenS>lol
17:51<TrueBrain>how to compare easily .. hmm ...
17:51<@Rubidium>nothing awk/sed shouldn't be able to solve ;)
17:52<TrueBrain>emu_movw(&emu_get_memory16(emu_cs, 0x00, 0x291), emu_dx.x) against mov cs:[0291],dx cs:[0291]=0000
17:52<TrueBrain>you tell me :p
17:52<Xaroth>o_O
17:52<TrueBrain>I can correct most things I guess ..
17:52<Xaroth>s/emu_// ?
17:52<TrueBrain>as I am only really interested in register-values
17:54<OwenS>You don't print the value of dx :p
17:55<TrueBrain>no, it prints the current value of cs:[0291]
17:55<OwenS>Aah :p
17:55<OwenS>Value after the insn I assume?
17:55<TrueBrain>nope
17:55<TrueBrain>before
17:55<TrueBrain>the dx value is after it
17:55<TrueBrain>01F7:00000003 mov cs:[0291],dx cs:[0291]=0000 EAX:00000000 EBX:00000000 ECX:000000FF EDX:0000353F ESI:00000000 EDI:00000080 EBP:0000091C ESP:00000080 DS:01E7 ES:01E7 FS:0000 GS:0000 SS:3EEE CF:0 ZF:0 SF:0 OF:0 AF:0 PF:0 IF:1
17:56<TrueBrain>is the full line
17:56<OwenS>Aah
17:56<OwenS>At least REX is illegal in real mode :p
17:56<+glx>sane format I'd say
17:56<TrueBrain>yup, very sane format
17:56<OwenS>Why print all the flags seperately rather than just EFLAGS: ? :p
17:56<TrueBrain>because now you know what flags is what
17:56<TrueBrain>dah :p
17:57<+glx>cs is a register ?
17:57<TrueBrain>CodeSegment, yes of course
17:57<+glx>I don't see it in the dump
17:57<OwenS>01F7
17:58<+glx>of course
17:58<Tefad>CZSOAPI: 0000001
17:58<TrueBrain>Tefad: you were right btw on the memory breakpoint
17:58<Tefad>uh what?
17:58<TrueBrain>you were the one who said that, right?
17:58<TrueBrain>dosbox and memory breakpoint
17:58<TrueBrain>or was it tekky?
17:58<TrueBrain>can't remember
17:58<OwenS>My CPU only has two flags. If I wasn't intending to implement a 16-bit compressed instruction format mode, activated by the LSB of the address, I'd be tempted to stash them in the IP when I push both at once (Mainly interrupts)
17:58<Tefad>probably not me.
17:58<TrueBrain>both starts with Te and is 5 letters long :p
18:00<@Rubidium>DaleStan: have you read my IRC PM regarding nforenum and the compile farm?
18:01<TrueBrain>good candidate for a problem: SF:1 in my code, SF:0 in DOSBox code ..
18:01<TrueBrain>just I wish I knew which code it was about .. :p
18:01<OwenS>Aah, sign flag :p
18:03<TrueBrain>happens after an AND statement
18:03<TrueBrain>and wide signextended
18:03<TrueBrain>maybe the sign extension goes wrong ..
18:04<TrueBrain>euhm .. the problem is more hurtful :s
18:05<Xaroth>uh oh
18:05<OwenS>What is it then?
18:05<Xaroth>that sounds like a delay in the release of OD :o
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18:05<TrueBrain>well ... I have a sfw() function and sfb() function
18:05<TrueBrain>one for words, one for bytes
18:05<TrueBrain>in general it is bad to mix those up :p
18:06<+glx>and you just did that ?
18:06<Xaroth>hah
18:06<TrueBrain>only for and!
18:06<TrueBrain>not that it changed anything ...
18:06<+glx>but and is the most used (with or) I think
18:07<TrueBrain>glx: but the SF flag is rarely checked
18:07-!-eleusis [~eleusis@124-169-213-129.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
18:07<+glx>except by dune2 it seems ;)
18:08<TrueBrain>not to say
18:08<TrueBrain>just a random bug :)
18:08<TrueBrain>I expect more ;)
18:08<DaleStan>Rubidium: Part of it, but I managed to miss the link to the patch.
18:08<DaleStan>Until just now, that is.
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18:10<TrueBrain>okay, testing now if that changed anything ...
18:11<TrueBrain>nope ... not a thing
18:12<DaleStan>And thanks for your work on this, Rubidium.
18:13<@Rubidium>DaleStan: you're fine with the settings?
18:15<DaleStan>They look OK to me, but the "OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files..." paragraph on download-nforenum seems confusing at best.
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18:16<DaleStan>Only thing I know about the PPC problem is that someone (planet maker, maybe?) fixed his problems by using the latest SVN (or whatever) version of gcc.
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18:16<@Rubidium>DaleStan: good point ;)
18:19<OwenS>Random question: Is the netx party for r20000 or r25000? :p
18:19<planetmaker>DaleStan: the 4.0.0 version won't compile it with a quite general error along the lines of "error in C-style template" while 4.5 compiles it.
18:19<planetmaker>so yes
18:19<TrueBrain>if you host, 17000 :p
18:19<TrueBrain>(oh, and arrange our travel :p)
18:20<planetmaker>I didn't test 4.4 though
18:20<planetmaker>Later I read that it fixes that problem, too
18:20<planetmaker>iirc
18:20<@Rubidium>planetmaker/DaleStan: the compile farm uses the latest (as of 3 months ago) GCC (4.2) that Apple ships
18:21<planetmaker>if it doesn't complain, it's fine.
18:21<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it doesn't complain, but it segfaults (at least for you)
18:21<planetmaker>well, that's another error than I had :-)
18:22<planetmaker>but yes.
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18:34<TrueBrain>I open Firefox, press some random button (happened), and it opens a random page .. qmusic.de .. what? :p
18:36<Nite_Owl>need to feed - later all
18:36-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:39<OwenS>I want my VPS' network connection =(
18:40<planetmaker>and it still occurs
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: your germanophile side coming through? :p
18:44<TrueBrain>where?
18:44<TrueBrain>fuck .. fixed even more flags, still not working :(
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>opening a .de site?
18:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: ah .. yes .. I guess
18:50<TrueBrain>dosbox always says file 5 ..
18:50<TrueBrain>how annoying
18:53-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B773A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:54<Eddi|zuHause2>how very annoying indeed
18:56<TrueBrain>still no luck :'(
18:57<TrueBrain>oh well .. at least fixed a few more errors :)
18:57<TrueBrain>night all!!
18:57<TrueBrain>Xaroth: sorry .. maybe some day :p
18:58-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B746B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59<Xaroth>TrueBrain: I'm patient :)
18:59<Xaroth>besides, I haven't learnt C yet :)
19:01<OwenS>Night
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19:06-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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19:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16971 /extra/website/frontpage/ (templates/frontpage/download.html views.py): [Website] -Change: don't show that OpenTTD requires TTD data file for non-OpenTTD downloads
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19:16<@Rubidium>DaleStan: http://www.openttd.org/download-nforenum now without mentioning that it needs TTD data files
19:20-!-`Fuco` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
19:21<@Rubidium>if you ever want to redirect to a specific precompiled version use http://www.openttd.org/download-nforenum/r2158 . Human 'raw' searching via http://binaries.openttd.org/extra/nforenum/ (use index.xml for tools). Build logs under <revision>/logs
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19:41<Zuu>Has it been observed that the changelog.txt for last nightly and the one yesterday were zero size?
19:42<@Rubidium>not those instances specifically
19:42<@Rubidium>but... it's a subversion bug
19:43<@Rubidium>it's solved in some newer version of subversion
19:43<@Rubidium>but upgrading subversion means upgrading all subversions all over the repository (due to working copy 'upgrades')
19:44-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@user-5af13a46.wfd107.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:46<@Rubidium>and because the compile farm consists of about 10 'different' VMs, that'd mean upgrading 10 subversions and their dependencies
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19:54<Zuu>Hmm, I recall now that last time it also was because of subversion. Do you want me to continue to report when it becomes zero size?
19:54<@Rubidium>Zuu: there's hardly anything we can do about it 'easily'
19:55<Zuu>Okay, I understand.
19:56<Zuu>I will try to remember that next month or so or whenever it happens again that it is not easily recoverable.
19:58<@Rubidium>it should solve itself in a few thousand revisions though ;)
19:58<OwenS>Rubidium: Is the plan currently to stay on Subversion for the forseeable future?
19:59<@Rubidium>OwenS: why not?
19:59<OwenS>Just wondering. Lots of projects seem to be migrating away these days
19:59<OwenS>(And I understand why)
20:00<@Rubidium>name me one 'current' VCS that has incrementing revision numbers that are equal over all checkouts
20:00<OwenS>Rubidium: I must say I miss that feature too
20:00<OwenS>Though is it absolutely necessary?
20:01<@Rubidium>OwenS: nah, not really...
20:01<@Rubidium>if you don't care about debugging, network play and NewGRFs
20:02<OwenS>Rubidium: Why does network play care about an incrementing revision umber?
20:03<@Rubidium>because that gives you an idea how 'new' a server is
20:03<@Rubidium>well, more 'recent'
20:04<@Rubidium>what's more recent dd4775856bce or e1074188b7d1?
20:04<OwenS>And I know that several of them have scripts to produce one for every commit to the central repository if you need that
20:06<@Rubidium>oh, not to mention the nice 'native' newline function of svn
20:09<@Rubidium>and I've still not seen any convincing reasons why to use another VCS
20:11<@Rubidium>and OpenTTD doesn't have a 'chain-of-command' like Linux, where the little 'devs' try to get patches in the git repository of slightly higher devs until it reaches Linus
20:12<OwenS>Neither does KDE but it's going Git
20:14<@Rubidium>I must say that doing backports (trunk to release branch) is really easy in svn. I'm not sure how to do that in git, but it looks like they'll clone the whole git repository to a stable release repository and then apply patches from the 'trunk' to the release repository
20:15<@Rubidium>although a git/hg repository can be very useful when developing patches
20:15<OwenS>I think the kernel just pulls in each of the patches individually, yes
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>but i guess the kernel has higher modularity, and patches tend to not touch most of the files...
20:17<OwenS>That is true
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>there are no "rewrite the map array" kind of patches
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20:17<OwenS>When the kernel does something that drastic, the old method tends to stick arround for a while also
20:20<@Rubidium>anyhow, we provide hg and git repositories too for people who want to use that
20:20<@Rubidium>so what's the 'base' repository doesn't really matter for most users
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20:28<Tekky>Ah, according to the SVN commit messages, serious work is being done on multi tile waypoints. :-) That would be great to have them in OpenTTD....
20:29<Sacro>and multi-tile depots? :O
20:31<Tekky>I have thought to myself many times how useful multi-tile waypoints would be, but I assumed that no such thing would ever get implemented. I am happy to see that this assumption of mine was incorrect. :)
20:32<Tekky>Sacro: As far as I can tell, only stations and waypoints are being worked on, not depots.
20:32<Sacro>hmm, never mind eh
20:32*Sacro goes to bed
20:32<Tekky>Sacro: What do you mean with multi-tile depots? Depots that can service several trains at once?
20:33-!-Zahl [~Zahl@g228025047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*]
20:33<Tekky>Sacro: Or do you mean depots that behave like station platforms, so that the depot must have at least the length of the train it is servicing?
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20:48<Sacro>Tekky: both
20:50<Tekky>I just thought that it may be meaningful to make depots behave the same way as stations, so that the depot requires a separate platform for every train it is servicing and the platform length must be at least as long as the train. Is this what you were also thinking of, Sacro?
20:50<Sacro>yeah
20:52<Tekky>Hmmmm, when servicing, most of the work is done on the engine, not so much on the entire train. Therefore, it may be good enough if the platforms are long enough for all engines. On the other hand, also many parts of the train that are not part of the engine must be serviced.
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22:03<Dragoon_Jett>openottdcoop is down?
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22:36-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f960:b2b9:ce95:9453] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:39<@Rubidium>Dragoon_Jett: you probably mistyped the url or so
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22:46<Dragoon_Jett>I was using a direct link from the online content thing
23:00-!-KingJ is now known as kingj
23:04<Zuu>Dragoon_Jett, Also note, you have one o (open) to much when you wrote #openttdcoop.
23:05<Dragoon_Jett>Sigh
23:05<Dragoon_Jett>I didnt type the url in
23:05<Zuu>www.openttdcoop.org works ok from here.
23:06<Dragoon_Jett>sign
23:06<Dragoon_Jett>sigh
23:07<Dragoon_Jett>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Basecosts.grf
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23:08<Zuu>That one works less good.
23:09<Dragoon_Jett>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Main_Page
23:09<Dragoon_Jett>Doesnt even open
23:10<Zuu>Try join #openttdcoop on this irc server and ask there.
23:11<Zuu>Throught as it is very early in the morning in Europe its probably quite dead in there.
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 28 00:00:21 2009