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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-30

---Logopened Thu Jul 30 00:00:48 2009
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03:22<LuciusMare>hello
03:23<@Rubidium>ave!
03:23<Yrol>Hello, LuciusMare.
03:23<LuciusMare>i built a railway between an iron ore and steel mill
03:23<LuciusMare>then i found that there is a factory and a farm near
03:23<LuciusMare>so i built another one
03:24<LuciusMare>and how do i make it LOAD on the farm,LOAD on the steel mill and then UNLOAD in the factory?
03:24<LuciusMare>just standard goto?
03:24<Noldo>should work there
03:25<Yrol>(LuciusMare) as long as it aint the same goods, i guess so.
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03:43<Zuu>LuciusMare, If I understand your situation correctly you want to use "full load (any)"
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05:39<TrueBrain>pompiedom
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05:44<Prof_Frink> /me boulders at TrueBrain
05:44*Prof_Frink kicks leading spaces
05:44<TrueBrain>you like that?
05:44<TrueBrain>I am not going this week .. really sucks :(
05:45<Prof_Frink>I'm going... to Font.
05:45<TrueBrain>lucky you :)
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05:55<@Rubidium>ah, TrueBrain blessed us with his presence... can only mean one thing!
05:55<TrueBrain>yes?
05:56<@Rubidium>lunch time!
05:56<TrueBrain>ah .. enjoy :)
06:01<LuciusMare>aw
06:01<LuciusMare>i built a bus service between two <2000 cities but i get only 25$for each travel
06:01<Forked>lousy service :
06:01<Forked>p
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06:55<dihedral>oh my fucking word!
06:55<dihedral>such a stupid dev at work
06:55<dihedral>complains that he cannot svn copy to an unversioned folder
06:55<dihedral>or that his commit fails (adding an already existing file)
06:56<dihedral>... and that he does not understand the error message
06:57<dihedral>or why an svn diff on an unversioned file compares with an empty file.... "but the file does exist on the server".....
06:57<dihedral>idiots
06:57<dihedral>my flipping word
06:57<dihedral>i'd say - time for lunch :-P
06:58*TrueBrain writes an email to dihedral's boss
06:58<TrueBrain>ghehe
06:58<planetmaker>:-P
06:58<planetmaker>salut
06:58<Forked>"dear dihedral's boss. He needs new co-workers. Signed the OpenTTD team. (PS: We're looking for a job)"
06:59<planetmaker>hahaha :-)
06:59<TrueBrain>yeah, lets all work for dihedral's boss
06:59<TrueBrain>that should make him happy :)
06:59<TrueBrain>or at least .. makes sure he can't wine aboutit here ;)
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07:00<planetmaker>honestly... I think I prefer to work here :-)
07:00<TrueBrain>me too :)
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07:04<SirSquidness>I reckon I'd be willing to work for dihedral 's boss if I got paid airfares, given a house to live in away from home, relocation emotional stress allowance, etc, etc
07:05<SirSquidness>can't forget the RDO's to get to know my new area
07:05<Forked>or just have a home office
07:05<Forked>:p
07:05<SirSquidness>sssssh
07:05<SirSquidness>I'm trying to get as much money as possible out of this deal
07:05<SirSquidness>:p
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07:20<TrueBrain>I hate to be the first rang helpdesk ... stupid user with stupid questions
07:20<TrueBrain>I am glad when my colleges are back ...
07:20<TrueBrain>then they can take over that job again :p
07:21<TrueBrain>if dihedral thinks his devs are stupid .. he should try my phone for a day
07:32<SirSquidness>you get first level tech support? Ooooh... I do not pity you. At all.
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07:38<TrueBrain>normally I run third ... which is fine by me
07:38<TrueBrain>but first .. omg ...
07:38<TrueBrain>"what does that icon in front of my list mean?!" - "that means that the email is in your address book"
07:38<TrueBrain>had that question 4 times this week alone :s
07:38<SirSquidness>... wow.
07:39<TrueBrain>okay, in all fairness Horde did give it a crappy name .. "personal"
07:39<TrueBrain>stupid name to give it .. but okay .. still ..
07:39<SirSquidness>that's no excuse
07:39<TrueBrain>I never noticed the icon at all till I got the question the first time :p
07:39<SirSquidness>I've never noticed the icon
07:40<SirSquidness>but then again.. I have no idea which program you're talking about :P
07:40<TrueBrain>Horde
07:40<SirSquidness>Never heard of it :P
07:41<TrueBrain>then you are not known with the software in the mail sector :)
07:41<SirSquidness>this is a correct assumption to make.
07:41<TrueBrain>it is the most used webmail :)
07:41<TrueBrain>most ISPs implement it
07:41<SirSquidness>ah, ok, maybe I have used it, but just never noticed it's name
07:41<TrueBrain>some do SquirrelWeb, but that is dying out :)
07:45<Prof_Frink>RoundCube :)
07:46<TrueBrain>still very beta
07:46<TrueBrain>not something any sane ISP should roll out :)
07:46<planetmaker>he. Horde doesn't have too bad an interface
07:47<TrueBrain>planetmaker: nope
07:47<TrueBrain>just a few weird stuff
07:47<TrueBrain>and: it doesn't tell you when you forwarded a message
07:47<TrueBrain>which always pisses me off
07:47<Prof_Frink>orudge: You're insane.
07:48<planetmaker>Never noticed that, TrueBrain
07:49<planetmaker>but usually I don't care as I use a real mail client
07:49<TrueBrain>;)
07:53<@Rubidium>the lovely ambiguities of English... (real mail) client or real (mail client)
07:53<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and Dutch doesn't have that? :)
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>at least in german the declination of the attribute often gives away to which word it belongs to
07:55<TrueBrain>svn.client.log3([str(url).rstrip("/")], rt, rt, rt, 1, True, False, logUrlCallback, client_ctx, pool)
07:55<TrueBrain>lovely, that 'Python SVN library'
07:56<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: not really, in that case at least: post client vs echte e-mailclient
07:56<TrueBrain>this is even better:
07:56<TrueBrain>diff = svn.client.diff([], str(url).rstrip("/"), rt, str(url2).rstrip("/"), rt2, False, False, True, temp, temp, client_ctx, pool)
07:56<TrueBrain>Rubidium: echt mail client
07:56<TrueBrain>dunno .. gives me the same problem
07:56<TrueBrain>echt mail programma
07:56<TrueBrain>might be a better translation :p
07:57<TrueBrain>I guess it will be 'echte' if you mean the other
07:57<TrueBrain>fair enough :p
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, in that case, "mail" is not used in a german translation of "real mail" :p
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it would be "echte Post", "echtes Programm" or "echter Klient"
07:59<TrueBrain># or thought about me secretly
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>where "Post" is female, "Programm" is neutral and "Klient" is male
08:00<TrueBrain># do I make you wonder at all
08:00<TrueBrain># about the speed of light
08:00<TrueBrain>lalalaa
08:00<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so there's no distinction between Firebird/Outlook/KMail and telnet in German? They're all 'echtes Programm' (+plural)
08:00<TrueBrain>(guess the song, ghehehe :p)
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08:00<TrueBrain>Firebird? :p
08:00<TrueBrain>that name is BANNED!
08:01<TrueBrain>(as I doubt you were refering to the database :p)
08:01<OwenS>TrueBrain: He may have refered to the database :p
08:01<OwenS>lol
08:01<TrueBrain>;)
08:01<@Rubidium>oh, thunderbird then... why must they keep changing names?
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: each of them is an "echtes Programm", but all of them together are "echte Programme"
08:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: it is like that for years now :p
08:01<OwenS>Rubidium: The mail client ha sALWAYS been thunderbird
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't say _ALL_ cases where distinguishable
08:02<@Rubidium>OwenS: I'm just happy with iceweasel and icedove ;)
08:02<TrueBrain>stupid Debian
08:02<OwenS>I'm just happy with Opera :p
08:02<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: hasn't much to do with Debian
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>but this does not apply to this case, as it was clearly referring to "a client"
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>(singular)
08:03<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the names kind of do :p
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm using KMail, not sure if that is making me any kind of happy...
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think our university uses squirrelmail
08:04<TrueBrain>is old
08:04<TrueBrain>and kind of sucky :p
08:04<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: no, the reason why the names are different in Debian is that Debian doesn't like to distribute 'non-free' stuff in their 'free' repository. As a result the non-free images are scrubbed from Firefox/Thunderbird, which by license requires them to rename the application. If it isn't the EXACT same source as Firefox, it may not be called Firefox
08:04<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so again I say: stupid Debian, they picked those names
08:04<TrueBrain>it was all Debian, who made up those names
08:05<TrueBrain>so don't tell me it isn't, as it is :)
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>so they are thunderfox and firebird? :p
08:05<@Rubidium>but only because they were forced by mozilla
08:05<TrueBrain>I don't care
08:05<TrueBrain>if I force you to rob a bank
08:05<TrueBrain>you still did
08:06<@Rubidium>depending on the proof it's quite likely that I would not be jailed and you would
08:06<TrueBrain>so? You still did rob the bank
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>but the registered name thing is going to be a problem for free software in the future
08:06<TrueBrain>reasoning doesn't take away the act
08:06<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: is going to be? It is for a long time now :)
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the problem is only growing to be bigger ;)
08:07<TrueBrain>welcome in the world of exploiting :)
08:07<TrueBrain>Free is rarely as free as one might think :p
08:07<TrueBrain>or hope, I guess
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08:18<dihedral>:-P
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08:58<Fox>got a question about distance and profit calculation. which exact distance is taken?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>manhattan, i believe
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>of the two station signs
09:06<Fox>ah ok, danke dir ^^
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>the topic still says something about the language...
09:07<LuciusMare><offtopic>What does overgeneralization mean? </offtopic>
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>that you exaggerate with the generalization
09:08<dihedral>everybody generalizes all the time!
09:08<@Rubidium>"a few people in this channel are German, thus all people in this channel are German"
09:09<LuciusMare>oh
09:09<LuciusMare>i think i understand
09:09<dihedral>jawohl
09:09<LuciusMare>then what does this have to do with this: http://catb.org/jargon/html/overgeneralization.html
09:09<LuciusMare>?
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>a sociologist, a physichist and a mathmatician go into a foreign country and see two black sheep
09:10<Fox>kk, thx eddi
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>sociologist: all sheep are black in this country
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>physichist: no, you can only say there are two black sheep in this country
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09:10<Eddi|zuHause>mathmatician: no, you can only say there are two sheep that are black on at least one side in this country
09:11<@Rubidium>LuciusMare: they generalised a rule and applied it to other words
09:11<LuciusMare>*blink*
09:11<LuciusMare>thank you
09:11<LuciusMare>:)
09:13<blathijs>TrueBrain: You would rather have had Debian nog ship Firefox at all?
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09:13<TrueBrain>blathijs: you clearly misunderstood my comment as much as Rubidium did :)
09:13<TrueBrain>I just blamed Debian for those names
09:13<TrueBrain>that is all
09:15<blathijs>TrueBrain: You have better suggestions? :-)
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09:16<TrueBrain>blathijs: plenty! But they didn't like any of them ... :p
09:17<blathijs>:-p
09:19<Fox>is there an easy way to measure distances in game? like a small tool?
09:20<@Rubidium>Fox: yes
09:20<Fox>^^ how?
09:21<Fox>aah i see ^^ got it
09:21<@Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Interface#Show_a_measurement_tooltip_when_using_various_build-tools
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09:27<@Belugas>hello
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09:36<Tekky>hi Belugas :)
09:40<@Belugas>hello Tekky
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09:53<TrueBrain>I hate talking in a phone
09:53<TrueBrain>blegh
09:55*Rubidium tries to imagine that...
09:55<@Rubidium>... looks a bit like http://www.thephonecar.com/tel3.jpg
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09:58<TrueBrain>weird mind you have Rubidium
10:01<z-MaTRiX>hi ;>
10:01<@DorpsGek>hello z-MaTRiX
10:02<z-MaTRiX>hows life?
10:02<@DorpsGek>I am a bit rusty
10:02<@DorpsGek>But I hope that will be fixed after a nice checkup soon
10:02<@DorpsGek>you?
10:02<z-MaTRiX>just having hdd issues with a 400GB samsung
10:02<@DorpsGek>Samsung is rubbish anyway
10:02<z-MaTRiX>smart errors came
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10:03<z-MaTRiX>what would you use?
10:03<@DorpsGek>a toaster!
10:03<blathijs>Seagate ftw :-)
10:03<TrueBrain>blathijs: seagate? You are insane :)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>yeah really...
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>i only ever had problems with seagate
10:04<z-MaTRiX>well actually had seagate gone badsector land
10:04<@DorpsGek>did you send a rescue party?
10:04<z-MaTRiX>no, just started to get bad sectors
10:04<z-MaTRiX>then replaced
10:04<@DorpsGek>you should send them back to their own country
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10:06<z-MaTRiX>btw samsung hdd worked fine for 1.5 years 24/7 (3year warranty)
10:07<z-MaTRiX>it could do 14000 working hours
10:07<@DorpsGek>my HDs always only work 12/5
10:07<@DorpsGek>I hate them for that
10:11<LadyHawk>last time i checked on my HD it had a warning saying it's running overhours
10:11<LadyHawk>(24/7)
10:11<LadyHawk>lol
10:11<z-MaTRiX>hehe
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11:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16991 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Change: make 'remove waypoint' draggable
11:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16992 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_rail.cpp ai_rail.hpp ai_rail.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: function to clear waypoint(s) in a certain rectangle on the map
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11:56<@Belugas>damned :( i do not have that image of baby birds waiting for mom to feed them...
11:56<@Belugas>left it on the other server, i guess
11:57*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
11:57<@Rubidium>noes!
11:57<@Belugas>that Rocker boy wold deserve it!
11:57<@Rubidium>now we're all going to die :(
11:57<@Belugas>naaaa... it came from the web, it shall be found on the web!
11:58<@Rubidium>hmm, based on that: TrueBrain, Supernova was wrong in the beginning because a formula was incorrect so all further calculations were wrong too ;)
11:59<TrueBrain>based on WHAT?!
11:59<@Rubidium>more wrong formulae I guess
12:00<TrueBrain>sometimes it looks like you had a complete conversation in your head
12:00<TrueBrain>and forgot to tell us
12:00<@Rubidium>oh, no... the "now we're all going to die"
12:00<@Rubidium>was a quote from that same piece of fiction
12:01<TrueBrain>I think Rubidium is losing it ...
12:01<@Rubidium>I've lost it long ago
12:01<@Belugas>that's why he's among the devs...
12:02<TrueBrain>but it rapidly is growing worse :)
12:02<@Belugas>look who is talking ;)
12:02<@Belugas>buwhahaha!
12:02<TrueBrain>Belugas: I am pretty stable for the past few years :p
12:02<TrueBrain>it was never any good in the first place ;)
12:06-!-Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
12:07<@Belugas>hehe
12:19*Rubidium thinks Belugas found the link
12:20<@Belugas>not exactly the same, but pretty close :D
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12:32-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
12:33<Yexo>good evening
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13:24<DPyro>anyone know how i can get the loading percents back?
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>ctrl+x
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13:28<DPyro>ty :)
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13:42<@Belugas>arghh... Terkhen, Tekky... i'm all confused now... :S
13:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16993 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Change: make the rail waypoint builder draggable
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13:44<@Rubidium>Belugas: Tekky__, Tekky_, Tekky ... now that's confusing
13:45<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and all another IP ;)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16994 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 3 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by Roujin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 7 changes by lorenzodv
13:45-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.148.25.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:46<@Belugas>indeed Rubidium, indeed...
13:47<@Belugas>taht reminds me of something i loved doing when been bored by my work...
13:47-!-Tekky_ was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [you're one too much!]
13:50*frosch123 is always happen when wondering about Wednesday/Thursday results in Thursday
13:51-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@11.23-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence does not parse...
13:52<frosch123>s/en/y/
13:52-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.159.73.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>that part i did figure out ;)
13:52-!-Tekky__ was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [not needed anymore]
13:53<@Rubidium>so it's dinner time I reckon ;)
13:53<frosch123>well, Thursday evening is always better than Wednesday evening
13:54<@Belugas>what is even more pleasant is... saturday morning
13:54<frosch123>don't know, then I am always asleep
13:54<@Belugas>you don't have a kid yet :)
13:55<@Belugas>VERY hard to sleep on a saturday morning ;)
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14:22<TMS>I want to run a server, text only, if I don't have X installed on a Linux box can I still run a dedicated server?
14:22<TrueBrain>yes
14:22<Spoons>Yes.
14:23<TrueBrain>(you could also just have tried ... :p)
14:23<TMS>well, I'm about to install Debian on an old machine for a server box I plan on using
14:24<TMS>so I just wanted to know if I really need to install X just to run a dedicated server
14:25<TrueBrain>you really don't need to :)
14:25<TMS>right.
14:25<TMS>...will it run in the background or hog the command line
14:25<TMS>I've seen it do both >.>
14:25<TrueBrain>depends how you start it :)
14:25<@Belugas>usually, at the count of 3
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>http://erdgeist.org/Fax200907301505242.pdf <- my dutch is a little rusty, this appears to say that thepiratebay has to pay 30.000EUR for each day they are running a tracker service in 3.3, but i can't figure out what the other points say
14:25<@Belugas>1..
14:25<@Belugas>2...
14:25<@Belugas>3...
14:25<@Belugas>GO!
14:26<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: lol :) Let me read ...
14:26<OwenS>In a push I may install the X clients, but not the server on a server
14:27<TrueBrain>WTF?!
14:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: 1.3 says that because they didn't give their 'counter arguments' in a valid format, it is denied
14:27<TrueBrain>like they should be instant knowers of Dutch law or what ever ..
14:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: well, it's simple... you don't come to the hearing, you haven't given counter arguments
14:29<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, you can do it on writing
14:29<@Rubidium>ofcourse going to a hearing when detained abroad is somewhat difficult...
14:29<TrueBrain>but they failed to do that in the correct format, so to say
14:29<TrueBrain>this is just stupid
14:29<TrueBrain>really .. stupid .. is that how we treat people from other nations :s
14:29<TrueBrain>but okay .. reading on ...
14:29<TrueBrain>2.3 is funny
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>why would they come to the hearing if they haven't been notified properly?
14:30<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: well, the writing which says that, is not accepted in court
14:30<TrueBrain>as it was not written in a way (or date, for that matter), that is accepted by dutch law
14:30<TrueBrain>LOL! Counter-argument of BREIN: we did sent them an email
14:30<TrueBrain>so they did know about it
14:31<TrueBrain>TPB mistake: they once did reply on an email to the same address
14:31<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that's like me sending you a letter now, getting a reply and when you've moved sending it again means that you've received it
14:31<OwenS>This court case sounds like the time a US court ordered Spamahus to pay a company something like $1mil. Spamhaus haven't paid it and never turned up in court - the ydon't operate in the US...
14:32<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, 2.4 goes on telling BREIN really did attempt to send them the message
14:32<TrueBrain>and they did receive it
14:32<TrueBrain>so I have to say: TPB fucked up
14:33<TrueBrain>2.5 says that the court is right and they find the verdict valid (really? What a suprise :p)
14:34<OwenS>Question is; Are TPB bound by said verdict at all?
14:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: by EU laws .. possible
14:34<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: they have 30 days to make sure TPB is not reachable from The Netherlands
14:34<TrueBrain>after that, 30.000 euro per day, with a max of 3M
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>they would need cooperation of swedish authorities to enforce the verdict, probably
14:35<TrueBrain>3.4 talks about 2 months
14:35<OwenS>And, question: How much is €30k relative to their income? :p
14:35<TrueBrain>they can block the IPs on AS leel
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>or either of them stepping a foot into the netherlands ;)
14:35<TrueBrain>oh, wait, 30 days is 10 days
14:35<TrueBrain>so 3.2 says within 10 days, 3.4 says within 2 months
14:35<TrueBrain>go figure
14:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: EU countries .. they do not need to enter our country ..
14:36<TrueBrain>that only goes for US and stuff :p
14:36<@Rubidium>so now... lets sue Google, Microsoft, Yahoo et al.
14:36<TrueBrain>btw, they have to pay 42762 euro, processing costs
14:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yeah, when they forget to sent a lawyer, they will have the same problem :p
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i got that, but what about the 61k they talk about earlier in that paragraph?
14:37<TrueBrain>all with all, it is complete bullshit
14:37<TrueBrain>because some lameass county sues you
14:37<TrueBrain>you have to go there and/or be represented
14:37<TrueBrain>and if not, you have to pay N money
14:37<@Rubidium>and if TPB is illegal with linking to torrents, then any search engine must too
14:37<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: two mixing signals again
14:37<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: one page says they have to pay 61k, the other 42k ...
14:38<OwenS>In other words, it's been a kangaroo court :p
14:38<TMS>heh.
14:38<TMS>The Pirate Bay is two different things.
14:38<TMS>A tracker and a search engine.
14:38<TrueBrain>OwenS: by the lack of counter-arguments, it was just said: BREIN, you are right
14:38<TMS>The tracker may not necessarily be "legal"
14:38<TMS>But the search engine surely must be.
14:38<TrueBrain>TMS: they have to stop their Tracker
14:38<TrueBrain>explicit named
14:38<TMS>Really? To all Dutch citizens?
14:38<TMS>Or just universally?
14:39<TrueBrain>so either read the verdict, or shut up :)
14:39<OwenS>TrueBrain: Which makes me think their legal council is of the opinion the agreement can't reach them
14:39<TrueBrain>OwenS: do they really have legal council?
14:39<TrueBrain>I dunno .. I once got sued by the UK
14:39<TrueBrain>I just told them to fuck off
14:39<TrueBrain>I mean .. what would your reaction be?
14:39<OwenS>If sued by the UK? I'd be ratherp issed off at my own country :p
14:39<OwenS>Didn't they just sell TPB anyway?
14:39<TrueBrain>it was not till I received an official imprinted envolope with the demands again, I agree'd ;)
14:39<TrueBrain>I live in the NL ;)
14:40<TrueBrain>nope, sell is on a stall
14:40<TrueBrain>would you buy a company that is sued by all countries in the world?
14:40<TrueBrain>US is also preparing ..
14:40<TrueBrain>they see money .. they all run
14:40<OwenS>This is going to be FUN :p
14:40<TrueBrain>this verdict is just insane
14:40*TrueBrain launches his proxy to give people TPB access via other countries :p
14:40<TrueBrain>bounce bounce
14:41<OwenS>Then again... I imagine that even if the owners get sued into oblivion, TPB will go on
14:41<OwenS>PRQ (their hosts) have been sued for worse
14:41<TrueBrain>TPB is not a legal person
14:41<TrueBrain>they are those 3 people
14:41<TrueBrain>they should have made it a legal person long ago
14:41<TrueBrain>would be much easier :p
14:41<OwenS>PRQ are under attack from governments for hosting Wikileaks all the time :p
14:42<TrueBrain>hehe
14:42<TrueBrain>I hosted nintendo8.com for a long time ... you don't want to know the facny letters I received
14:42<TrueBrain>you all give them the same reply: FUCK OFF
14:42<OwenS>lol
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>http://torrentfreak.com/dutch-court-refuses-to-inform-pirate-bay-defendant-09030/ <-- this is the most weird part about it
14:43<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: that is the dutch law ... you don't come? You don't get
14:44<TrueBrain>the verdict btw very clearly says they did know about the sue
14:44<TrueBrain>in fact .. most talk is about that :p
14:44<TrueBrain>but okay .. very weird situation .. I didn't know you could be sued outside your own country within the EU .. just insane ..
14:44<@Rubidium>now... to find a piece of Open Source that is heavily used by the Dutch government... and only release fixes via TPB :)
14:44<Xaroth>they weren't rightfully sued
14:44<@Rubidium>that'd be fun
14:45<TrueBrain>Xaroth: they are by dutch law, that is the insane part I guess :)
14:45<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I agree :) I know a few ...
14:45<TrueBrain>well, not open source, but still :p
14:45<OwenS>TrueBrain: You can be sued from anywhere in the world in which you operate. Whether that can reach you or not is the important part
14:45<TrueBrain>OwenS: true
14:45<TrueBrain>but what I meant, is that I thought the EU made rules for that
14:45<TrueBrain>which unified such shit
14:45<Xaroth>one of their arguments was that because a 'known TPB' ip watched the page they made stating they were sueing, they were informed
14:45<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: sounds like OwenS suggest closing openttd.org for anything not Dutch?
14:45<TrueBrain>clearly ... it is not .. and some crazy ass dutch court agrees with it :s
14:45<Xaroth>which is against another dutch law that states that you can't tie an IP address to a person
14:46<TrueBrain>Xaroth: no, read the verdict
14:46<TrueBrain>BREIN really did a lot
14:46<Xaroth>they tried a lot
14:46<Xaroth>nothing with signed proof
14:46<TrueBrain>what you name is one of the many things
14:46<TrueBrain>the carriers they sent arrived and handed over the papers
14:46<TrueBrain>(which by dutch law is sufficient)
14:46<Xaroth>they failed to mention to whom they handed it over
14:47<TrueBrain>to all 3 persons
14:47<TrueBrain>it was a signed thingy
14:47<TrueBrain>so either the post office fucked up 3 times
14:47<TrueBrain>or TPB lies
14:47<TrueBrain>I mean: their lawyers received the papers, they did (all 3), they received email, they received http address ..
14:47<TrueBrain>what more could BREIN do? So that part is not so strange, in my opinion
14:48-!-stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: visit them personally in jail (like the US system)
14:48<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I think the "struisvogelpolitiek" of: WE DIDN"T RECEIVE IT, only holds for so long
14:48<Xaroth>" Uit de door eiseres overlegde producties kan echter niet worden geconcludeerd dat bij de betekening van de dagvaarding van gedaagden in Zweden is voldaan aan het bepaalde in artikel 7 lid 1 <something>"
14:49<Xaroth>... Eiseres heeft verder geprobeerd de dagvaardingen van gedaagden restreeks door een Zweedse deurwaarder te laten betekenen. Dit is niet gelukt
14:49<TrueBrain>Xaroth: that was prior to the sue
14:49<TrueBrain>read on
14:50<TrueBrain>final paragraph of 2.4
14:50<Xaroth>yes, but as mentioned, they didn't follow the letter of the law
14:50<TrueBrain>Xaroth: no, BREIN first tried something else
14:50<TrueBrain>which failed
14:50-!-tdev [~udev@p508EB811.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:50<Xaroth>2.4 states they are ignoring the regulations because BREIN convinced the court they did sufficiently to inform them
14:51<Xaroth>both parties aren't lying, and both are
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: what i am missing is something about the evidence presented that TPB actually did something illegal
14:52<TrueBrain>"Dat gedaagden aan de media te kennen hebben gegeven niet op de hogote te zijn van een rechtzaak jegens hen in NEderland is in het licht van vorenstaande niet aannemelijk"
14:52<TrueBrain>Xaroth: says it all :)
14:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the verdict isn't really about that
14:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I think that is because swedish court did that :p
14:52<Noldo>(n
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: in a non-finalized intermediate judgement?
14:53<Xaroth>TB: that section is as quoted by BREIN, accepted by the court
14:53<TrueBrain>Xaroth: we read things very differently
14:53<TrueBrain>nevertheless, court said BREIN did enough to reach them
14:53<Xaroth>yeh
14:53<TrueBrain>and if I read this, I have to agree with them
14:53<TrueBrain>that is all that matters, I think
14:53*Xaroth shrugs
14:53<TrueBrain>Xaroth: there is never a reference that it is a quote from BREIN in any way
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but reaching the defendant is not the only thing that matters when suing someone
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>(i hope)
14:54<@Rubidium>ah well, it's only giving TPB more media attention (and thus followers) and like DRM there is always a way around it...
14:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: 2.5 says that the court things the request is not illegal or ungrounded, and granted it
14:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: it kind of is :)
14:54<TrueBrain>things = thinks, oops :)
14:54<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: You don't have to proove your right if your oponent doesn't come to defend themself
14:54<Xaroth>TB: I doubt brein did everything they could to contact them
14:54<TrueBrain>"Vertek verleent", but I fail to translate :)
14:55<TrueBrain>Xaroth: don't you agree they tried enough?
14:55<TrueBrain>4 different communication methods?
14:55<TrueBrain>really .. TPB just acted stupid, hoping they could duck the sue
14:55<Xaroth>of which 3 not adopted by law? :P
14:55<TrueBrain>but that is jsut stupid ...
14:55<Xaroth>not really
14:55<TrueBrain>Xaroth: 1 is enough, not? The other 3 are not mroe than polite ...
14:56<TrueBrain>okay, lets ask the question differently: what should BREIN have done to make it clear to TPB that they were being sued?
14:56<Xaroth>The reason they aren't adopted by law is because there is no personal verification that the receiving end is, in fact, the accused
14:56<Xaroth>use the other option, by newspaper
14:56<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: send someone IN PERSON to them with proof that they were notified of the fact
14:56<TrueBrain>Xaroth: that did happen .. then they complained
14:56<TrueBrain>still leaving plenty of time
14:57<TrueBrain>Rubidium: hehe :) we call those couriers ;)
14:57<@Rubidium>e.g. a civil law notary
14:57<TrueBrain>but yeah, that would have been an option :)
14:57<Xaroth>thing is though
14:57<Xaroth>brein was smart in this
14:57<Xaroth>by doing -just- enough to get the court's approval
14:57<planetmaker>"Das Problem (sind) (...)die "etablierten" Mißstände vor allem in der Denkweise der NewGRF-Autoren (bzgl. Basecosts und Ressource-Management)die jetzt inetwa so reagieren wie die Kirche auf den Buchdruck" <--- very nice one, Eddi|zuHause
14:57<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I've more than on one occasion signed for those couriers when the letter wasn't for me
14:57<Xaroth>they basically got a fight with no contestants
14:57<TrueBrain>Xaroth: well, TPB fucked up because they replied to one of the emails send to them .. that was just stupid
14:57<planetmaker>I like the wording :-P
14:58<Xaroth>yep
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>;)
14:58<@Rubidium>besides that, the NEVER asked for proof that I was the addressee
14:58<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, those couriers are slightly different .. in our country anyway :)
14:59<TrueBrain>when they come to give you such paper .. nobody else can sign for it :)
14:59<Xaroth>court couriers ask for personal identification
14:59<TrueBrain>we tried .. you will fail :)
14:59<Xaroth>no id, no signing
14:59<@Rubidium>guess they're different in 'the west' ;)
14:59<TrueBrain>(as said, I once got sued, I had to come there to sign for the paper, as they refused to hand over to my mother :p)
14:59<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: did you have to prove you were the addressee?
15:00<TrueBrain>(well in fact both persons knew eachother and she knew darn well I as her son :))
15:00<TrueBrain>pasport, yes
15:00<OwenS>lol
15:00<TrueBrain>darn, it is annoying the PDF of Eddi|zuHause is not horizontal
15:00<TrueBrain>I start to look weird :p
15:00<Xaroth>TB: It still sucks what the court ruled
15:01<TrueBrain>Xaroth: well, they didn't rule anything really
15:01<TrueBrain>it was more like: we have a complaint
15:01<TrueBrain>we don't have a counter
15:01<TrueBrain>so .. we have to grant to complaint
15:01<TrueBrain>:p
15:01<TrueBrain>but yes, it is stupid and insane that they got sued here in the first place
15:01<TrueBrain>does every coutnry start doing that now?!
15:01<OwenS>TrueBrain: How would they prove who you were if you lacked a passport? :p
15:01<Xaroth>yeh, but still, first step of censorship :P
15:02<TrueBrain>OwenS: in The Netherlands you need to have a valid identification at all times
15:02<Xaroth>OwenS: all dutch citizens have to have personal identification :)
15:02<TrueBrain>even on the streets :)
15:02<TrueBrain>Xaroth: that for sure is true
15:02<TrueBrain>and that alone would most likely have been enough to win the sue
15:02<OwenS>Cause currently I posess neither passport or driving license
15:02<Eddi|zuHause><Xaroth> OwenS: all dutch citizens have to have personal identification :) <- that usually means you have to own one, but not that you have to carry it with you at all times
15:02<TrueBrain>OwenS: in this country, you in such case are not allowed to go on the streets
15:02<Xaroth>OwenS: don't go to holland :P
15:03<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: when on the street, you do.
15:03<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: here it does :)
15:03<TrueBrain>well, every person above the age of 16
15:03<Xaroth>You can get fined if you do not
15:03<TrueBrain>since 2 years orso?
15:03<TrueBrain>3?
15:03<TrueBrain>Xaroth: even arrested till they are sure you are you :)
15:03<OwenS>Xaroth: I can't go to Holland with no passport anyway :p
15:03<Xaroth>though police officers don't have any direct means of checking if you have it with you unless they suspect anything
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: what when you are 15 but look like 18 to the police?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>what if you are 18 and tell them you are 15?
15:04<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: go ask them
15:04<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: 1) you have to get your parents to prove you're 15.
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: they are in australia for another two weeks?
15:04<Xaroth>2) dunno
15:04<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: guardian/custodian
15:04<_ln>btw.... ain't it nice that Camping Zeeburg at Amsterdam wants your passport for themselves until you check out.
15:04<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: who cares; by law we have to carry identification, all that matters
15:04<Xaroth>_ln: then you can direct the police to the camping :)
15:05<TrueBrain>(I don't carry identification most of the time, but .. that is a completely different story
15:05<_ln>Xaroth: not sure if that's an acceptable solution.
15:05<TrueBrain>I mean .. I am not going to a dance with my passport :s
15:05<Xaroth>_ln: it is
15:06<TrueBrain>_ln: the police are not bullies
15:06<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: the real question is: was the person asking you for identification a civil servant (ambtenaar)?
15:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: it came from the UK, so no
15:06<Xaroth>downside is though, you'll probably get escorted to the camping... :P
15:06<@Rubidium>then you weren't, by law at least, obligated to identify yourself
15:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and they aren't, by law at least, obligated to give me the thingy in that case
15:07<TrueBrain>but as the next step is a police arrest
15:07<@Rubidium>and then you haven't received it
15:07<TrueBrain>I think it is better to go with the identification
15:08<TrueBrain>(when you don't accept the sue, it goes back to UK, they then start the international law thingy, and a month later orso the police comes to hand you over the same sue ... just identify yourself)
15:08<_ln>TrueBrain: is a driving license enough for identification for a) you, b) a foreign citizen?
15:08<TrueBrain>(as in the latter case you most likely don't get away with: okay, I will remove it)
15:08<_ln>(in NL)
15:08<TrueBrain>_ln: for me, yes, for you, no
15:08<TrueBrain>(but police is known to accept it)
15:09<TrueBrain>driving license is not a valid EU document
15:09<TrueBrain>passport and the other thingy we have here are
15:09<planetmaker>hm... no?
15:09<TrueBrain>okay: MY driving license is not a valid EU document
15:09<planetmaker>I thought they standardized driving licenses...
15:09<planetmaker>hehe :-)
15:09<OwenS>They did
15:09<TrueBrain>I don't know about those new thingies
15:09<TrueBrain>if they are EU documents, it is printed on them
15:09<planetmaker>well... even 14 years ago, they were standardized within EU. Just differently.
15:09<OwenS>Incidentally, Euros contain Europium
15:10<planetmaker>I still have this funky pink license...
15:10<Xaroth>My driving license sais "Model van de Europese Gemeenschappen" .. Model of the European Communities?
15:10<_ln>planetmaker: driving license doesn't say a thing about citizenship, that's why it's not a valid document abroad.
15:10<TrueBrain>Rubidium: one thing I learnt really fast: don't fuck with people who try to sue you: you will lose!
15:10<Xaroth>and i think it does count as a EU-standard identification
15:10<Xaroth>the old paper one doesn't
15:10<planetmaker>_ln, that it doesn't, true.
15:11<planetmaker>Xaroth, the old paper one tells the sam,e though :-)
15:12<TrueBrain>Xaroth: your driving license doesn't even hold in some situations
15:12<TrueBrain>every Dutch citizen sitll needs to have either ID or passport
15:12<OwenS>Incidentally, Sweden is legally obligated to adopt the Euro
15:12<Xaroth>o_O
15:12<planetmaker>uh?
15:12<planetmaker>@ OwenS ^
15:12<Xaroth>TrueBrain: officially, yes.. but i've yet to see somebody to not allow my drivers license :P
15:13<TrueBrain>try at a police station
15:13<TrueBrain>:)
15:13<Xaroth>I did
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>i always have my ID with me
15:13<OwenS>All countries which joined the EU after a certain date are legally required to adopt the Euro. Sweden has a defacto opt-out though because they joined after said opt-outs were given
15:13<TrueBrain>taxes, also requires Passport or ID
15:13<Xaroth>I.. have somebody else do my taxes :P
15:14<TrueBrain>but that given, I doubt it is a valid EU document :p
15:14<planetmaker>OwenS, but... the monetary union not a compulsory part as far as I understood.
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>britain has more opt-outs than sweden could ever take
15:15<OwenS>PM: It's compulsory for all countries joining after a certain date and as such applies to Sweden. They still have a defacto opt-out though (And it's not like the EU can force them)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>the UK is not even Schengen-member
15:15<planetmaker>Well, the UK is special :-)
15:15<TrueBrain>the UK sucks
15:15<TrueBrain>well, today I learnt that NL sucks too
15:15<_ln>the Danes aren't taking EU very seriously either
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>the danes do have euro, though
15:16<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: W.R.T Schengen... we are an island :p
15:16<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: they don't, though
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>really? i was pretty sure....
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>not like i was anywhere near denmark in the last 15 years...
15:17<Tekky><Rubidium> Belugas: Tekky__, Tekky_, Tekky ... now that's confusing <---- Sorry, it seems I lost connection several times within a short period.
15:17<_ln>i was there 15 days ago, so let's assume the situation hasn't changed since then.
15:17<planetmaker>hehe :-)
15:18<_ln>and they don't have EU-style licence plates either
15:18<OwenS>_ln: We often do these days
15:18<planetmaker>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Supranational_European_Bodies.png <-- nice overview
15:19<@Rubidium>the Vatican isn't part of the Schengen area... separation of church and state?
15:19<OwenS>lol
15:19<OwenS>I tend to care more about CoE than EU though
15:19<planetmaker>CoE?
15:19<OwenS>Council of Europe
15:20<planetmaker>ah
15:20<OwenS>Y'Know, the ones who wrote the ECHR? :p
15:20<planetmaker>meh... foreign abbreviations suck
15:21<@Rubidium>so CoE doesn't mean "Children of Earth"? That sucks :(
15:21<planetmaker>but yes.
15:21<planetmaker>But EU has more influence. Far more nowadays.
15:21<_ln>is it alright in Germany to give a customer a receipt with all prices in DKK, not euro?
15:22<OwenS>planetmaker: Not really. COE has stronger courts and more members
15:22<planetmaker>I guess not
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>err... what?
15:22<_ln>DKK = Danish krone
15:22<planetmaker>OwenS, but no power to enforce it.
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: for a while before and after the euro introduction, all prices had to be given in both DM and EUR here
15:23<TrueBrain>Rubidium: lol, I just read this (to come back on ambigious topics): mobiel chatten kost Vlaamse bijna 10.000 euro
15:23<TrueBrain>'bijna' can be in amount or time .. I first thought in time .. but it turned out to be in amount :p
15:23<planetmaker>they basically have "moral power"
15:23<OwenS>planetmaker: Not really. An ECHR ruling is stronger than anything the EU can do
15:24-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:24<Tekky>The court of the Council of Europe is limited to human rights issues, as far as I know.
15:24<TrueBrain>http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/30/130249/CentOS-Project-Administrator-Goes-AWOL <- that is why at all times 2 people can access all openttd.org services :) (well, except this IRC channel I guess :p)
15:24<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: Scandlines has a (floating) drink shop at Puttgarden, and their prices are in DKK. and Puttgarden is very much in Germany.
15:24<@Rubidium>guess I've learned enough unneeded factoids today
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: southern schleswig is special anyway...
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>hysterical raisins...
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>and protection of minorities...
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>there's a village in austria, which used DM entirely
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>because its only road to the "outside world" lead to germany
15:27-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-212-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: and if it's floating, it is even more special
15:29-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
15:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r16995 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: apply some code style to CmdBuildBridge
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm... wikipedia says they are trying to build a bridge between Puttgarden and Rødby
15:31<@Rubidium>bye bye boat :(
15:31<_ln>i've heard of such too, but i wonder how much sense would that make.
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Fehmarn-bridge.png
15:32<@Belugas>like the Euro Tunnel?
15:32<@Belugas>Yexo! Patch killer!!
15:32<Yexo>Belugas: you had a patch? :p
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time Belugas engaged in signals-on-bridges
15:33<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: add Helsingor-Helsingborg and you'll have a massive shortcut going from Hamburg to Stockholm by road
15:33<@Belugas>kidding... my late-and already-outdated signals on bridges ;)
15:36<_ln>the ferry is 64€ one-way, and gives an opportunity to e.g. have a dinner during a 45-minute break.
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>i was in Gedser once (ferry from Warnemünde and back)
15:38<Ammler>I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum.
15:38<Ammler>or at least no write access
15:39<@Belugas>as if he was developping...
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i tend to not read the forum anymore
15:39<@Belugas>ho... me neither...
15:40<Tekky>Ah, is it true that multi-tile waypoints are now implemented since r16993? Or did I misunderstand the commit message?
15:40<Ammler>the bad part is, if you add those people to the foe list, the thread will still be marked as unread.
15:42<Yexo>I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum. <- You have my vote :)
15:42*Tekky downloads the latest nightly to see whether multi-tile waypoints are now fully implemented.
15:42<@Rubidium>unlikely ;)
15:42-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:43<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:43<Ammler>rubi makes it dramtically :-)
15:43<Tekky>Hi Nite_Owl.
15:43<Nite_Owl>Hello Tekky
15:45<Tekky>Rubidium: Were you replying to me in your last message? Did I misunderstand the commit message that multi-tile waypoints were already implemented? Or were you replying to someone else?
15:45<@Rubidium>I'm replying to the 'fully'
15:46<Tekky>Ah, but they can already be built?
15:46<@Rubidium>yup
15:46<Tekky>But they don't work yet? :)
15:46<@Rubidium>just not extended, distant joined, ... basically any other station feature
15:50<Tekky>Ah. Well, that's good enough for me. I just want to be able to place a waypoint on two track pieces that are next to each other, for now. Thanks Rubidium for your great work. :)
15:50-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r16996 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16995): the tiles under the bridge were not marked dirty when a bridge was replaced with another type
15:59-!-Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
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16:12<frosch123>http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/symbols/comprehensive/symbols-a4.pdf <- on page 85 it starts to become quite weird
16:24-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@11.23-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd
16:28*Belugas 's clock is not moving fast enough
16:30<TrueBrain>and my code refuses to work in the way I want it to work
16:30<TrueBrain>which is not really by-any-book
16:31<Aali>frosch123: well, if you ever wanted to fight ghosts and evil spirits with LaTeX, now you can
16:33<frosch123>do they protect against viruses, if i link them into the kernel?
16:33<Aali>I doubt it
16:33<Aali>you'll need the anti-body symbols for that
16:37<frosch123>night
16:37-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe2eb.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:38-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39<@Belugas>latex only protects against viruses if you slide your kernel in, not if you link it
16:40<Nite_Owl>but only if your latex does not have a hole in it
16:40<@Belugas>quite
16:40<@Belugas>or if it's a very small kernel
16:41<Nite_Owl>then you would need an extension
16:43<@Belugas>but but but... an extension would only means interferences
16:43<@Belugas>ho... crap...
16:44<Nite_Owl>true - so you could by a supply of Extense
16:45<@Belugas>or rewrite the kernel in C++, with full of members
16:45<@Belugas>you hou... insanity around the corner!
16:50-!-Azrael [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
16:55<TrueBrain>stupid Django .. somehow it refuses me to give control over who is my parent of a child object :s
16:57<OwenS>I've been working with Django recently also
16:57-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:57<OwenS>Only real complaint I have with it is that it's auth engine isn't flexible enough
16:57<TrueBrain>very easy to use your own
16:58<OwenS>Yes, but then you loose admin :p
16:58<TrueBrain>but the default permission thingy is a bit tricky to get to know
16:58<TrueBrain>not the best part of Django :)
16:58<OwenS>Auth or Admin? :p
16:58<TrueBrain>auth
16:58<TrueBrain>admin is great :)
16:58<OwenS>Yeah
16:58<TrueBrain>I am now too stretching it to the limit, by having a database design which is not normal :p
16:58<OwenS>lol
16:58<TrueBrain>I have 1 parent object with 2 child objects
16:59<TrueBrain>but I fail to link those together
16:59<OwenS>I should probably see if I can work with them to improove auth somehow :p
16:59<OwenS>As in, make it pluggable so sites can customize it more
16:59<TrueBrain>it kind of is
16:59<TrueBrain>just .. weird
16:59<TrueBrain>and unusual :p
17:00<OwenS>I haven't found how to redirect users off to my single sign on site :p
17:00<TrueBrain>openttd.org does ;)
17:00<OwenS>Does it do it without sharing database between the SSO site and the site you're logging into? :p
17:00<TrueBrain>SSO?
17:01<OwenS>Single Sign On
17:01<TrueBrain>euhm ... you blame this on Django?
17:01<@Belugas>Super Sexy Object
17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r16997 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r16985): forgot to update regression
17:01<TrueBrain>you have one database which handles authentication, and an other which is the site itself?
17:01<OwenS>Yes
17:01<TrueBrain>and you expect it to magic share authentication of some kind? :p
17:01<OwenS>I want to replace Django Admin's backend with my own :p
17:02<OwenS>Auth's **
17:02<TrueBrain>you can use what ever auth you want :p
17:02<OwenS>My auth database is in a custom format also, as it predates me using Django :p
17:02*Belugas goes home. enjoy your evening
17:02<TrueBrain>the Auth thingy is a plugin :)
17:02<TrueBrain>night Belugas :)
17:02<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:02<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yes. I just wish replacing it didn't drag Django Admin with it :p
17:02<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:02<Zuu>Good evening Belugas
17:02<TrueBrain>you could make the auth thing do a completely ldap lookup over 16 servers and report back :p
17:03<TrueBrain>OwenS: does it? As far as I know one does not depend on the other
17:03<Zuu>I was sent home from school because of the heat and there is no AC.
17:03<TrueBrain>just on _a_ User system :p
17:03<OwenS>TrueBrain: AFAIK, it importd django.contrib.auth :p
17:03<TrueBrain>that would be stupid, but even that is easy to solve ... ;)
17:04<OwenS>Also, Django Admin throws up it's own login page... This doesn't work with a seperated auth database :p
17:04<TrueBrain>login != authentication
17:04<TrueBrain>login just sends user + password to the auth backend
17:04<OwenS>Aha. And then people are entering their passwords over unencrypted channels :P
17:04<OwenS>SSO is done via HTTPS
17:04<TrueBrain>HUH?
17:04<TrueBrain>what on earth are you babling about?
17:05<TrueBrain>since when is sending username + password to a subfunction an unencrypted chanenl?
17:05<TrueBrain>in that case HTTPS is unencrypted too, at several levels
17:05<OwenS>What I mean is that teh login page Admin throws up is unencrypted. As is where it posts to.
17:05<TrueBrain>euh .. then YOU did something wrong :)
17:06<TrueBrain>https://secure.openttd.org:444/test-www/en/admin/
17:06<TrueBrain>100% HTTPS
17:06<TrueBrain>never a single unencrypted channel from the client to the server
17:06<OwenS>Admin site on a different subdomain from the auth system? :P
17:06<TrueBrain>put it in https
17:06<TrueBrain>dah
17:06<TrueBrain>I mean ..
17:06<TrueBrain>you can't expect magic to flow ..
17:06<TrueBrain>you can tell the admin where the login site is btw
17:06<TrueBrain>you can override it how ever you want
17:06<TrueBrain>you can even extend it and build what ever you want from it
17:06<TrueBrain>check django snippets
17:07<TrueBrain>have tons of that :p
17:07-!-Azrael [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:10<TrueBrain>hmm
17:10<TrueBrain>that site sucks
17:10<TrueBrain>no search button on frontpage :p
17:11<TrueBrain>no search button
17:11<TrueBrain>...
17:21<Sacro>You have asked Firefox to connect
17:21<Sacro>securely to secure.openttd.org:444, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
17:22<TrueBrain>so close it already
17:22<TrueBrain>:p
17:24<TrueBrain>IDIOTIC django cleans out my fields :(
17:25<Ammler>Sacro: stupid firefox devs thinks, cacert.org isn't trustful.
17:25<TrueBrain>Ammler: why firefox devs?
17:26<TrueBrain>how about your OS?
17:26<Ammler>why my os?
17:26<TrueBrain>your OS keeps track of root certificates
17:26<TrueBrain>not your browser :)
17:26<Ammler>hmm, semi true :P
17:27<TrueBrain>so hard to say: true? :p
17:27<Ammler>:-)
17:27<@Rubidium>Sacro: then use an OS/Distro that has the proper root certificates
17:28<Ammler>TrueBrain: firefox could ship with it, too.
17:28<TrueBrain>Ammler: even if it did, it wouldn;t help :p
17:31<Ammler>hmm, it should, it doesn't complain here.
17:32<TrueBrain>....
17:32<TrueBrain>and nowhere in your world it is possible your OS has the cacert root certificate?
17:32<Ammler>no
17:32<Ammler>I had to install it.
17:32<TrueBrain>no wonder it worked after it
17:32<TrueBrain>so ... still no firefox interaction
17:33<Ammler>but konqueror doesn't allow wihtout warning
17:34<TrueBrain>so that is the proof you installed it inside Firefox
17:34<TrueBrain>nice!
17:34<Ammler>I guess so :-)
17:34<TrueBrain>my car can't drive harder than 100 km/h, so all others can
17:34<Ammler>let me try wget
17:34*Sacro has OS X
17:35<TrueBrain>Sacro: cacert is 'relative' new
17:36<TrueBrain>finally I managed to extend my table how I would want it ...
17:36<TrueBrain>pff :p
17:37<Zuu>Is it ottd stuff or just work?
17:37<TrueBrain>WT3.1
17:37<Zuu>Oh
17:37<TrueBrain>which reminds me: tdev: had any time? :)
17:38<tdev>hi TrueBrain :)
17:38<tdev>busy working on traffic lights atm :(
17:38<TrueBrain>:(
17:38<tdev>have time later :)
17:38<TrueBrain>if you want to contribute, you really have to kind of hurry :) I started the main plugin system already ... :)
17:38<TrueBrain>making big changes later is really hard :(
17:39-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DD8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Raubgut ist vom Umtausch ausgeschlossen!]
17:39<Zuu>Nice name..
17:40<TrueBrain>making big changes later is really hard :(
17:40<TrueBrain>lol
17:40<TrueBrain>wrong screen
17:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16998 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: rework/unify 'find station to join with' code and use it for all stations
17:43-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
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17:57<TrueBrain>translator/script.py core.project.create test openttd subversion -- subversion.root="file:///var/www/localhost/openttd" subversion.extension=".txt"
17:57<TrueBrain>whiieee, works :)
17:58<Xaroth>o_O
18:01-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
18:03-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@11.23-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
18:04<Xaroth>TrueBrain: http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgrtrfcop.aspx
18:05<TrueBrain>LOL!
18:05-!-xZise [~xzise@91-64-75-115-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
18:05<Xaroth>I almost fell off my chair
18:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16999 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_rail.cpp: -Fix (r16993): AIs couldn't build waypoints anymore
18:06<TrueBrain>oeh, magic number
18:06<@Rubidium>nah, this one is more magic ;)
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17000 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Change: allow overbuilding/extending waypoints
18:07<Xaroth>woot
18:07*TrueBrain goes to fix a few things on the openttd.org server now
18:07<@Rubidium>as it probably breaks committing for the others
18:08<TrueBrain>lucky now we know that it happens ;)
18:08-!-xZise [~xzise@91-64-75-115-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #openttd []
18:08<TrueBrain>finally managed to finish the plugin/script/API interface for WT3.1 :)
18:09*TrueBrain is happy with the result :)
18:09<TrueBrain>clean, pluggable ... yeah
18:09-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-82-9-22-43.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
18:09<Xaroth>nice
18:09<Ammler>http://www.cacert-germany.de/ <-- hmm
18:09-!-xZise [~xzise@91-64-75-115-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
18:10<Xaroth>Ammler: redirects to https with an invalid cert?
18:10<Xaroth>.. and expired
18:10<Ammler>something with confix
18:10<TrueBrain>good job,don't you agree? :P
18:10<Ammler>not really nice for a cert authority
18:13-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-137-108-224.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:16<TrueBrain>k, time for my bed
18:16<TrueBrain>nightynight all
18:17-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has joined #openttd
18:20<Ammler>nightly
18:20<Ammler>is crt and pem just different file extension for same format?
18:23<Ammler>http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=3 <-- root certificate (PEM format) but file.crt
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18:27<nicfer>hi
18:27<xZise>Hi all, I found a "bug" in the german translation :P What can I do to fix it?
18:27<+glx>only one ?
18:27<nicfer>I've just discovered a bug while playing on Akoz's server
18:28<nicfer>building a railtrack over a cactus is cheaper than over plain desert (!)
18:29<nicfer>well, some types of cactus
18:29<nicfer>those ones that are grouped in two
18:30<nicfer>and worse in single 'plantations'
18:31<nicfer>157 pounds for plain desert, 156 for dual cactus, 134 for single
18:31<nicfer>triple and quad are worth 200 both
18:31<xZise>glx: Me? Yep ... I didn't searched for bugs. But I read it, it "sounds" strange and doesn't fit to the other settings structure
18:34<Tekky>What is the exact bug in the translation, xZise? Several people here can understand German.
18:35<Tekky>nicfer: Sounds like a bug that I would report to http://bugs.openttd.org/ .
18:36-!-`Fuco`` is now known as Fuco
18:36<xZise>"Erlaubt nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen zu verbinden:" (STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DISTANT_JOIN_STATIONS) ... for it alone it is correct, but the other settings (e.g. STR_CONFIG_SETTING_FORBID_90_DEG -> "Zügen und Schiffen 90°-Kurven verbieten:") use only infintive (i think :P )
18:36<@Rubidium>xZise: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39481
18:39<xZise>ah k
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18:43<Tekky>xZise: What formulation do you propose to use instead? "Nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen verbinden erlauben" sounds worse to me, so I think the current formulation is appropriate.
18:43-!-Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:43<xZise>My first suggestion would be Erlaube instead of Erlaubt ;)
18:46<Tekky>Hmmm, for me, both possibilities sound ok.
18:49<xZise>I think the term "nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen verbinden" is the problem :P
18:53<Tekky>What is the problem with that formulation? Do you want to replace "direkt benachbarte" with "angrenzende"? That sounds a bit better, but the current formulation seems ok to me, too.
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18:56<xZise>Its freezing the structure ;) you could only use this 5 words in this order (in most cases) ^^
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19:04<Xaroth>[Ammler]: is crt and pem just different file extension for same format? << PEM is a mixed format
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19:16<OwenS>Aha! Found what was killing transmission!
19:16<OwenS>The new version added support for UPNP. I have two routers, one with and one without UPNP. It was trying to break a hole through the UPNP router... which has no WAN connection!
19:18<@Rubidium>I generally dislike upnp
19:18<@Rubidium>I don't want random applications opening random ports on my routers
19:19<+glx>why filter with NAT when everybody can go through it :)
19:19<@Rubidium>if a port ought to be opened, I want control over that, not some sneaky behind my back "technically you've got a firewall, but in reality you don't" misfeature
19:20<OwenS>Rubidium: It's so the majority of the population can use a torrent client without calling up their neighbourhood techie to open ports :P
19:20<+glx>use IPv6 then
19:20<OwenS>If only I could...
19:20<+glx>no need to open anything on the router :)
19:21<OwenS>Of course, then the world will have NetBIOS and crap in the clear again
19:21<@Rubidium>OwenS: and why can't you?
19:21<OwenS>Rubidium: Because I don't have an IPv6 capable router
19:22<@Rubidium>neither did I, but I had IPv6 with the internet
19:22<OwenS>Ayiya tunnel?
19:22<@Rubidium>now I've pushed maintaining the IPv6 tunnel to my router though
19:22<OwenS>Why tunnel? Why not 6to4 anycast?
19:22<@Rubidium>OwenS: some sort of tunnel; I'm not really interested which one exactly
19:23<OwenS>6to4 anycast is pretty much the best option you have over an IPv4 pipe
19:24<OwenS>(The only overhead is stuffing on an IPv4 header0
19:25*Rubidium doesn't see much difference in 'tunnel X over Y' and 'encapsulate X packets in Y packets'
19:27<@Rubidium>anyhow, I'm happy with my static IPv6 address
19:27<OwenS>A tunnel has a definite endpoint somewhere. 6to4 anycast does the transition at whatever 6to4 router is closest to you (or the person sending you a packet), and is also stateless
19:27<+glx>I have a full range :)
19:27<@Rubidium>glx: so do I, but I use only one of the addresses
19:29<OwenS>The IPv6 everyone-gets-a-48 model is just ridiculous :p
19:30<@Rubidium>yes and no ;)
19:30<OwenS>Even more fun is that it's entirely possible that, except for routers, you may never see the same last 64 address bits twice :p
19:30<@Rubidium>incidentally mac addresses are 48 bits and (supposed to be) unique
19:30<+glx>you can if you use MAC address
19:31<@Rubidium>so it's a very easy way to assign IP addresses
19:31<OwenS>Psst: It's the other way arround :p
19:31-!-TMS [~Will@75-136-132-146.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Time pingout]
19:31<OwenS>The 48 bits are your network number :p
19:31<OwenS>Everyone gets 80bits to play with
19:32<@Rubidium>see, Mac Address + old IPv4 address ;)
19:32*Rubidium 'only' has a /64
19:32<OwenS>You get 16-bits to use to create subnets, and 64-bits to use for EUI-64s - since EUI-48s, aka Mac addresses, are depreceated
19:32*Sacro wants an IP address :(
19:32<OwenS>My webserver - thats right, web server, has a /48.. :p
19:33<Sacro>hehe
19:33<Sacro>where can i get some?
19:33<OwenS>Get yourself an IPv6 tunnel :p
19:33<OwenS>www.sixxs.net
19:33<@Rubidium>Sacro: I think petern has some free IPv6s
19:34<+glx>I prefer my native IPv6 :)
19:34<Sacro>i want ipv2 :(
19:34<@Rubidium>sixxs sucks... it's enormously bureaucratic
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19:35<OwenS>Rubidium: Huh? I got a tunnel quite easily
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19:36<@Rubidium>OwenS: we have tried for about 2 weeks to get a range for openttd.org from sixxs.net
19:36<OwenS>The alternative is ipv6.he.net
19:37<OwenS>But
19:37<OwenS>I'd just enable automatic tunneling on your servers
19:37<@Rubidium>due to all kinds of bureaucratic shit we never used it as after 2 days we had enough of it and went for freenet6, which was done withing 5 minutes (and can even been done anonymously)
19:38<OwenS>https://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/IPv6#6to4 is how I do it
19:38<@Rubidium>and then we were the 'referee' between a 'fight' of a few LeaseWeb employees; the 'helpdesky' guy said you can't get IPv6, the 'IPv6 implementing guy' said we could
19:38<OwenS>lol
19:38<@Rubidium>so after about 2 weeks of freenode we went to native IPv6
19:39<@Rubidium>which is way better than any encapsulation
19:39<OwenS>I'm waiting for Linode to offer IPv6...
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19:40<@Rubidium>2.5% of the www hits on the server are IPv6
19:40<OwenS>Thats quite an impressively high number
19:41<@Rubidium>although the number of unique IPs is 0.8%-ish
19:43<+glx>Rubidium: I increase the stats everyday ;)
19:43<OwenS>It would be fun to have your IPv6 address just be an incrementing counter based on microtime :p
19:45<+glx>I have a static (based on MAC) and dynamic (windows 'feature') and the dynamic one is used by default
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19:51<OwenS>Somewhat more on channel topic: 741 trains through a station? Not bad
19:52<@Rubidium>depends on the timeframe
19:53<OwenS>Thats 741 trains that visit it in total :p
19:53<@Rubidium>you could easily have 128 trains in a station at a time
19:53<OwenS>258 are pickup, rest are drop
19:54<OwenS>And being fed/emptied via 5 tracks
19:54<@Rubidium>say they do their thing in 5 game days, is more than 741/month
19:55<OwenS>Using the timetable to get the time for a goods train...
19:55<OwenS>It's probably somewhat less than that considering they take several days to navigate the exit :p
19:56<@Rubidium>what, you're not playing with the instant at 30000 km/h maglevs?
19:56<OwenS>no :p
19:56<OwenS>Tropic Renewal Set doesn't have maglevs :p
19:57<@Rubidium>@calc 3700/190
19:57<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 19.4736842105
19:58<@Rubidium>^ RX+TX of server in GB / uptime
19:58<OwenS>heh
19:59<OwenS>Aww, I didn't grab my old server's uptime before I decomissioned it :(
19:59<@Rubidium>the 'current' average is even higher than that; bananas has really caused a lot of traffic
19:59<OwenS>lol
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20:01<OwenS>It takes a goods train 126 days per direction :p
20:01<@Rubidium>~25% of that bandwidth if bananas (over 190 days)
20:01<@Rubidium>which includes a long time where bananas didn't exist yet
20:02<OwenS>@calc 365/(2*126)
20:02<@DorpsGek>OwenS: 1.44841269841
20:02<OwenS>So one of said goods trains does one and a half deliveries a year
20:02<OwenS>Hmm... Whats that thing people call realism? :P
20:03<@Rubidium>unreal
20:04<OwenS>I think the realism stopped... about the time we got stations bigger than the towns they service
20:04<@Rubidium>I think realism never started
20:04<keoz>realism is like a limit in a function, to which we should tend, even if we know it is unreachable
20:05<@Rubidium>and I'm not going to react for a while as I'm going to bed; I wonder if Belugas likes that kind of realism
20:05<OwenS>TTD on a more realistic scale would be interesting though
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21:27<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm going to kill those people at seagate who sent me this hard drive...
21:27-!-tdev [~udev@p508EB811.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com]
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>and (unrelated) how can one screw up his kernel installation so it says "unknown file system: ext3"?
21:36<Sacro>`hahahah
21:36<Sacro>mkinitcpio borked?
21:36<Sacro>missing modules?
21:42<Eddi|zuHause>i think the modules were missing
21:43<Eddi|zuHause>but try to get the kernel installed again when you cannot mount /boot, and don't have the exact .rpm that was installed there :p
21:46<Sacro>but fucked there then
21:46<Sacro>*bit
21:50<Eddi|zuHause>well, i managed to install the .rpm that i had, and then got grub to boot from the / partition
21:50<Eddi|zuHause>which wasn't that easy either
21:50-!-ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
21:50<Eddi|zuHause>and then roleback of all the other changes that i tried to solve the problem with
21:51-!-kodmaster [~yeah@adsl-216-246-240-230.ext.distributel.net] has joined #openttd
21:51<kodmaster>!help
21:51-!-kodmaster was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
21:51<Priski>hehe
21:51<Priski>those are too common here?
21:52-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52<Sacro>not that commmon
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>especially !password started to get annoying
21:56<Sacro>Yeah that one did
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 31 00:00:02 2009