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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-31

---Logopened Fri Jul 31 00:00:02 2009
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05:26<TrueBrain>morning all
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05:28<@Rubidium>hai
05:29<TrueBrain>we had this class and exam for which ALL people failed
05:29<TrueBrain>now the professor tries to correct that problem, by giving more material
05:29<TrueBrain>even more unreadable
05:30<TrueBrain>when will this person understand that what he tells us, is not understandable ?
05:30<@Rubidium>I think that's something he does not understand
05:31<TrueBrain>he promised the head of the dep that he would do more his best in giving more detail .. he just gave the answers to the last test .. yeah .. that might work .. NOT
05:32<@Rubidium>if the next exam uses the exact same test, then it might
05:32<TrueBrain>even then, I am unsure I will have everything correct :p
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06:42<planetmaker>moin moin
06:45<TrueBrain>it is a planetmaker!
06:45<TrueBrain>I wonder if tdev had any time today
06:45<tdev>hey TrueBrain :D
06:45<tdev>im all yours ;)
06:45<TrueBrain>http://www.noaddedsugar.net/
06:53<planetmaker>haha :-) selling oneself to slave labour ;-)
06:54<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
06:56<Noldo>Would it be possible that someone would use some other language as the main language
06:56<TrueBrain>lol
06:56<TrueBrain>that is the strangest question ever, I believe :)
06:56<TrueBrain>what do you mean exactly Noldo? :)
06:57<Noldo>in the WebTranslator I mean
06:57<Noldo>"Automatic mark strings as 'suspicious' when English changes"
06:57<TrueBrain>Noldo: still I don't get it ;)
06:57<Noldo>that was the line that triggered the question
06:57<TrueBrain>oh, s/English/main language/
06:57<Noldo>yes
06:58<TrueBrain>base language, in fact
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06:58<Noldo>so is it possible to use something other that english?
06:59<planetmaker>Noldo, you can - as project leader - define your "main language"
06:59<planetmaker>All translations though, orient themselves on that language. And markings only depend upon changes in the "main language"
06:59<planetmaker>(if I understood it right :-) )
07:03<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you did
07:03<TrueBrain>nowhere in the code is ever defined which language is the base language
07:03<planetmaker>it's just a filename, I guess :-)
07:03<TrueBrain>depends :)
07:04<TrueBrain>gettext has the base language in every file
07:04<planetmaker>he :-)
07:04<TrueBrain>where OpenTTD has it in a single file once
07:04<TrueBrain>(and uses keys)
07:04<TrueBrain>NewGRF has another way
07:04<TrueBrain>so it is not that simple ;)
07:05<planetmaker>You plan to translate NewGRF with wt3?
07:05<TrueBrain>well, plan is a big word
07:05<TrueBrain>but it will be capable
07:05<TrueBrain>(if someone would write the in/out related to it)
07:06<planetmaker>Hm... would be interesting.
07:06<TrueBrain>what I read on it, it just works like: name.grf and name_trans.grf
07:06<planetmaker>My current newgrf projects have a separate file for each language
07:06<TrueBrain>where the latter can do all the translations for the first
07:06<planetmaker>but not each string needs translation.
07:06<planetmaker>Having a web interface for that would rock
07:07<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I see no reason why WT3.1 wouldn't be able to support it
07:07<planetmaker>hm... that's definitely then something to try.
07:07<planetmaker>WT3.1 service at the devzone :-)
07:07<TrueBrain>someone only has to explain to me in details what needs to be done :)
07:07<planetmaker>Another incentive to host repositories there :-P
07:08<TrueBrain>but as this plugin system allows that later, it will be done later ;)
07:08<planetmaker>That I can do, I think.
07:08<planetmaker>Reasonable nfo structure given, the string handling in nfo isn't difficult at all.
07:09<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/browse/sprites/nfo/lang <-- like that it's already quite easy
07:09<TrueBrain>does NewGRF have all languages OpenTTD has?
07:10<planetmaker>hm... I guess not all.
07:10<planetmaker>But most
07:10<TrueBrain>well, that is something that should be fixed
07:10<TrueBrain>and some kind of standard should be created for this
07:10<planetmaker>easily done. Pro'ly just needs defining in the specs.
07:10<planetmaker>e.g. updating the wiki
07:10<TrueBrain>like in the link you just gave, are comments
07:10<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action4
07:11<TrueBrain>either those need to made some kind of standard
07:11<TrueBrain>or it should work directly on .grf files
07:11<TrueBrain>list seems up-to-date :)
07:11<planetmaker>yes. The link I gave is not pure NFO. It's processed by a makefile into nfo
07:11<planetmaker>e.g. replacing the stringIDs etc
07:11<TrueBrain>but okay, lets do that after I have a working system ;)
07:11<planetmaker>he, indeed :-)
07:12<TrueBrain>today I will be extending the script, api, and plugin system a bit
07:12<TrueBrain>after which I should be able to start working on OpenTTD language files ..
07:13<planetmaker>:-)
07:13<TrueBrain>Noldo: if you have any other questions, please let me know :)
07:18*Ammler still thinks, the langaug
07:18<Ammler>mäh
07:18<Ammler>just ignore me :-)
07:18<planetmaker>muh
07:19<Ammler>why is backspace that close to the enter key?
07:25<TrueBrain>because you should just speak your mind
07:25<TrueBrain>it wants you to know that :)
07:25<@Rubidium>planetmaker: name me one (official) OpenTTD language that isn't supported by NewGRF
07:27<Ammler>2nd try; /me thinks, the language files should be distributed seperately, possible with bananas, isn't?
07:28<@Rubidium>did write something down a while ago for Miham IIRC about NewGRF translations: http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/newgrf_translation.txt
07:29<planetmaker>Rubidium, I guess I cannot. I just wasn't sure that all official OpenTTD languages have found already their way into the NewGRF specs
07:29<planetmaker>That's why I phrased it more cautiously. :-) A look at that page told me different
07:30<TrueBrain>Ammler: I tend to agree with you on that, as mostly it doesn't require permission of the original author
07:30<Ammler>"We should use FF for the default English strings. That way that string is always used as "catch all" string. It needs to be the first string, otherwise it overrides all" <-- still valid?
07:30<@Rubidium>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=114736 <- I like the laziness of the OpenGFX authors ;)
07:30<Ammler>specially the "needs to be first"
07:31<Ammler>because then pm needs to resort ;-)
07:31<@Rubidium>planetmaker: OpenTTD has the GRF ID language ID for the language in the language files
07:32<Ammler>TrueBrain: yes, specially CC-ND grfs
07:32<planetmaker>Rubidium, right :-) I wasn't aware that it's 100% the same
07:32<TrueBrain>Rubidium: do you agree on what Ammler says?
07:32<Ammler>but also the openttd core translations.
07:33<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if it's silence I have to agree on, then yes
07:33<planetmaker>btw, I try with the translation possibilities for the NewGRFs which use "my" makefile the same: a file which defines the langID in the header and the the STRING_ID follows with a translation, one each line
07:33<TrueBrain>Rubidium: fair enough:
07:33<TrueBrain>[13:27] <Ammler> 2nd try; /me thinks, the language files should be distributed seperately, possible with bananas, isn't?
07:33<@Rubidium>what language files is he talking about?
07:33<TrueBrain>newgrf .. like what we are talking about
07:34<planetmaker>I wished there were means to not blow up the newgrf size by all translations, but make them external...
07:34<TrueBrain>dunno where I read it yesterday, but as I said before: name.grf and name_trans.grf
07:34<TrueBrain>the latter with translations
07:34<planetmaker>hm... maybe there is means by add-on newgrf. But... can that then be used in a network game when the server hasn't that newgrf?
07:34<Ammler>TrueBrain: you mean one grf for ALL translations?
07:34<TrueBrain>Ammler: that is what the TTDp website suggests, yes
07:35<Ammler>ah, I thought about name_de.grf
07:35<TrueBrain>planetmaker: static newgrfs? (I don't know, I know almost nothing about grfs)
07:35<@Rubidium>I'd personally go for: "no", but that is 'only' because NewGRFs (e.g. name.grf) change over time adding/removing features (i.e. changing StringIDs), making the translation sound like gibberish
07:35<TrueBrain>Rubidium: true; but if you split it, you don't need permission of the original author ;)
07:36<Ammler>to make the tanslation universal, you should use the grf direclty as base.
07:36<Ammler>decode->translate encode a new file
07:36<planetmaker>Rubidium, that could be helped by querying the newgrf to be translated.
07:36<planetmaker>and de-activation, if the version doesn't match
07:36<@Rubidium>planetmaker: what part of the NewGRF do you intend to query?
07:37<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: true, but I think that totally wrong translations are a bigger problem than no translation
07:37<planetmaker>Rubidium, good question. But it could e.g. query the name. Which can hold the version
07:37<@Rubidium>e.g. translating 'steel' to 'vee'/'vieh'
07:37<planetmaker>it needs to be tailored. But it can be done, I guess.
07:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so that is something that we need to protect :)
07:38<planetmaker>I've never tried anything like that, though
07:38<TrueBrain>md5 of the grf in the translation, or what ever :p
07:38<planetmaker>TrueBrain, that'd be too strict IMO :-) But should work, too
07:38<planetmaker>most easy, I guess
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07:38<TrueBrain>for OpenTTD language files we make a 'number' from all stuff too
07:38<Ammler>well, we really would like a version info in the grfs anyway.
07:38<TrueBrain>which is 'unique' for a given english.txt
07:38<@Rubidium>yup, a hash of the base file is the easiest way
07:39<TrueBrain>as I think embeding the translation in the grf is not really the way to go
07:39<blathijs>TrueBrain: Why not?
07:39<planetmaker>^ I agree. At least if it gets many
07:39<Ammler>md5 hash doesn't show, which is the newer version.
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07:39<TrueBrain>blathijs: it bloats the grf unneeded
07:39<planetmaker>Ammler, that doesn't matter too much, if the newgrf tells its name with action 08
07:39<@Rubidium>from a 'simple' user point of view adding the languages to the NewGRF is the best way
07:40<blathijs>TrueBrain: You mean in actual file size? I'd expect translations to be minimal compared to the size of sprites?
07:40<planetmaker>then it needs a GUI way to add static NewGRF
07:40<TrueBrain>blathijs: no, I don't really care about filesize
07:40<@Rubidium>even so, what's the size of the translation vs the size of the rest of the file?
07:40<TrueBrain>I mean, we have, what, 50 languages now?
07:40<TrueBrain>translations will come in over time
07:40<TrueBrain>you need to keep on updating your base grf
07:40<TrueBrain>while nothing changes
07:40<TrueBrain>most users will find that annoying and weird
07:40<TrueBrain>(in my opinion ;))
07:41<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: most users will find it annoying and weird if they have to 'search' for a translation file
07:41<Ammler>or you wait with adding the translation until you have a "worthful" update.
07:41<blathijs>That makes sense. Splitting them allows you to update the (small) translations without having to redownload the (big) grf itself
07:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is why it should be made simple ;)
07:41<TrueBrain>blathijs: exactly
07:41<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: how simple can it be made? Because it'll be at least as complex as bananas
07:41<@Rubidium>which a major number of the users doesn't use
07:41<TrueBrain>http://www.ttdpatch.net/tools.html#grftrans <- that suggested _trans btw
07:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the best option in my opinion would be something as simple as this: when a user loads a grf, known at BaNaNaS, and you have a language loaded, and we know the translation for that grf for that language, we suggest the user to download it
07:42<TrueBrain>or something in that
07:42<TrueBrain>but that makes it very BaNaNaS depending
07:43<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: we suggest people to download an AI, yet we get lots of people complaining they can't find an AI
07:43<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is because I think the game should give a popup when it tries to start a game with an AI while there aren't any AIs
07:43<TrueBrain>giving the Content Download screen
07:43<TrueBrain>and pointing to where to download
07:44<TrueBrain>(if that isn't done already :p)
07:44<@Rubidium>and it would mean that you need to send an awful lot of information about NewGRFs to the client
07:44<TrueBrain>huh? Did you read the same text as I wrote?
07:44<TrueBrain>client sends to Content Service -> grf + language
07:44<TrueBrain>servers send back: I have translation for you
07:45<TrueBrain>but okay .. that is just my simple look on this
07:45<Ammler>well, just download the translation, if available
07:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: there needs to be some chatter to acknowledge for what it needs a translation ;)
07:47<Ammler>that is the big issue on current bananans you need to click too many times for just saying "downlaod the needed grfs"
07:47<TrueBrain>Rubidium: but I also showed you we can even make it on-demand downloading of translations ;) :)
07:47<TrueBrain>(I can make such silly patches :) Ghehehehe :))
07:47<Ammler>well, at least, what the ps players complain about,
07:47<blathijs>ps?
07:47<Ammler>cooop public server
07:48<TrueBrain>Ammler: you should avoid words like 'ps' ;)
07:48<TrueBrain>words .. letters :p
07:48<@Rubidium>how do NewGRFs handle defining the same string for the same language twice?
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07:52<@Rubidium>that might give some troubles when the main GRF contains translations and you load a _trans.grf that does the same
07:52<TrueBrain>something to fix, I guess? :)
07:54<@Rubidium>generally redefining stuff in NewGRF context means you've made a mistake, so I'm not quite sure whether ignoring such checks for mistakes is a good idea
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07:55<TrueBrain>if it comes from another grf?
07:55<Ammler>hmm, doesn't it just override, if not 7F or FF
07:56<planetmaker><Rubidium> how do NewGRFs handle defining the same string for the same language twice? <-- iirc the last instance overrides the previous ones
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08:00<Ammler>http://www.ttdpatch.net/tools.html#grftrans <-- using this tool does confim override, imo.
08:04<Ammler>the german tanslator thread is silly, why do you discuss there in english, all contributors there speak german. :-)
08:04<TrueBrain>Ammler: I am glad they do
08:04<TrueBrain>means I can follow it from time to time
08:04<Ammler>yeah, it is funny :-)
08:05*Rubidium gives TrueBrain an albert.nl cookie ;)
08:05<TrueBrain>for what?
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08:05*Ammler wonders if the Austrian Roujin doesn't need a de_AT language
08:06-!-paul_ [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:06<Ammler>@seen Roujin
08:06<@DorpsGek>Ammler: Roujin was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 53 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Roujin> can anyone give me some pointers how to handle utf8 strings in openttd (I'd like to print them to a file)? This is what I currently have: http://paste.openttd.org/183509 Obviously it doesn't work with utf8 and writes some ascii garbage in the places where non-ascii chars are
08:06<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: System Administrator Appreciation Day (a cookie is one of their gift ideas)
08:07<TrueBrain>Ah :) A bit late, but yeah, tnx :)
08:07<TrueBrain>you too ;)
08:07<@Rubidium>why late? You haven't had your afternoon tea yet, right?
08:07<TrueBrain>true
08:07<TrueBrain>I will keep it for that
08:07<TrueBrain>in my special box
08:11<Ammler>btw. if you will support "sub" languages like de_CH, you might also think about bind the region settings to the language files, something Eddi some time ago suggested already.
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08:15<TrueBrain>who can think up a better solution for this:
08:15<TrueBrain>translator/script.py core.subproject.create OpenTTD trunk -- openttd.base=english subversion.path=trunk/lang subversion.revision=1
08:16<TrueBrain>this tells the system to create a subproject for project OpenTTD with the name trunk, and gives the other parameters to the plugins named
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08:21<TrueBrain>tdev: I thought you said you were all mine :'( Hehe :) Oh well :) I tried ;)
08:21<tdev>i was fighting with AS script generators for cpp
08:21<tdev>reading your page :)
08:21<TrueBrain>:p
08:22<TrueBrain>we can btw talk it over in #webtranslator, if yuo like .. here is fine by me too, as it still is OpenTTD related ;)
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08:38<@Belugas>hello
08:38*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
08:38<TrueBrain>it is always so nice to see you
08:38<TrueBrain>I start all smiling and stuff
08:38<@Belugas>whou hou!
08:39<@Belugas>i like when people react that way to my entrance :D
08:39<@Belugas>imagine if we are face to face one day ;)
08:40<@Rubidium>guess we need a OTTDconf0A
08:40<TrueBrain>Belugas: I guess then it is all over :p
08:40<TrueBrain>magic gone :)
08:41-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514ff360.l4.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:42<@Belugas>somehow, i don't believe that for even a fraction of a second
08:42<@Rubidium>so... which airliner would like to sponsor a bunch of people from all over Europe flying to Canada?
08:42<@Rubidium>(and possibly back)
08:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium: private jet?
08:42<@Belugas>or.. the other way around...
08:44<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: not necessarily, I accept JAL scheduled flights too
08:45<@Rubidium>if they've got economy business (2 economy seats per person) or economy first class seats (3+ economy sets per person)
08:48<@Rubidium>as replacement for Canada I'm also willing to accept Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway or Hawaii
08:49<TrueBrain>Hawaii
08:49<TrueBrain>sounds reasonable
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08:50<Forked>Norway, weee
08:51<@Belugas>if it happens at Hawaii, even if i'm there, you will not see me
08:51<@Belugas>as ...
08:51<@Belugas>i'll be...
08:51<TrueBrain>I will join you on that ;)
08:51<@Belugas>well... yuo know...
08:52<@Belugas>you hou!
08:52<@Rubidium>Belugas: only means that we need a bit more sophisticated 'working' environment
08:52<Yrol>hello :o) i just revereted my trunk via SVN to r16750 and applied a patch for that version, now, when i compile it, i get massive errors where i dont get any, if i compile the current trunk. whats happening there?
08:52<@Rubidium>though the water cooled machinery is nice ;)
08:52<@Belugas>lol!
08:53<@Belugas>Yrol, could be so many things... who knows
08:55<Yrol>i guess so, yes. but to me it slowly seems, that there is some hidden line in everything openttd.. and it says to my pc "DONT compile!!!"
08:56<Eddi|zuHause2>assert_compile(name!="Yrol")?
08:57<Yrol>how funny
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08:59<Eddi|zuHause2><Rubidium> guess we need a OTTDconf0A <- you mean you want to discuss things that will go into version 0.A? :p
09:00<@Belugas>Yrol, it compiles everytime i try at home... soo...
09:00<@Belugas>cristal ball!
09:00<Yrol>(Belugas) of course it does, you dont use win32, right? ;o)
09:01<@Belugas>MSVC
09:01<@Belugas>on xp
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>when Belugas is a Delphi person, he is raher likely to use windows
09:01<@Belugas>yup
09:01<@Belugas>quite
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>+t
09:01*Belugas gives a "t"
09:01<@Belugas>too late :(
09:01-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't have tea in a while...
09:02<z-MaTRiX>brb
09:02*TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause a nice cup of tea
09:02<TrueBrain>I have the cookies
09:02<TrueBrain>Rubidium gave them to me :)
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i know how to get these ;)
09:03<Yrol>(Belugas) i dont understand it though, if the current, newest source compiles well, shouldnt then some ageold version also compile?
09:03<TrueBrain>Yrol: if your new car runs fine
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>Yrol: you're applying a custom patch that we do not know anything about...
09:03<TrueBrain>should you old car run fine too?
09:03<TrueBrain>what kind of nonsense is that ...
09:04<@Belugas>whatever the revision, nothing is garanteed to be compilable
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>nor is "it doesn't work" a proper error message
09:04<@Rubidium>Yrol: 16754 compiled on MSVC
09:04<dihedral>@seen yexo
09:04<@DorpsGek>dihedral: yexo was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 22 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Yexo> I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum. <- You have my vote :)
09:04<dihedral>:-(
09:04<@Belugas>we did break trunk quite oftenly
09:04<@Rubidium>I don't see any compile fixes since 16750, so there must be something wrong with your environment/source
09:06<Yrol>TrueBrain, sure, the way you twist my sentence, it makes no sense. but a car doesnt run itself.. "I" run the car and i run an old car aswell as a new car.
09:06<Alberth>Yrol: not always; c++ compilers change, even the C++ language changes
09:06<Yrol>(Eddi|zuHause) im not asking for help, thius i dont need a 50 page-errordescriptnio
09:07<TrueBrain>Yrol: you clearly don't understand how this works :)
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>and your analogy isn't valid. if you learned how to drive an automatic (new) car, you don't know how to drive a manual (old) car
09:08<TrueBrain>Yrol: but if you didn't got it yet: we can't help you as you are very vague
09:08*Rubidium would like Yrol drive a T-Ford
09:08<@Rubidium>+to see
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>or a car where the gears are not synchronised
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>there're many ways to break old cars when you are not used to them
09:08<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: well, striclty only the first 2 are synced
09:09<TrueBrain>but yeah ... I wouldn't like it when they were not :p
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09:17<Svenska>hi
09:17<Svenska>i'm using openttd 0.7.1 stable (debian squeeze)
09:17<Svenska>can i use fluidsynth in openttd to get the midi music working?
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>you could check the docs for "extmidi"
09:18<Svenska>timidity hangs after i quit openttd, then the sound card stops working until reboot
09:18<Svenska>what is extmidi?
09:18<dihedral>burn the songs to a cd, and play them on your stereo
09:18<Svenska>bad idea -> no stereo :)
09:18<dihedral>ext(ernal) midi
09:19<dihedral>copy them to your ipod, mp3 palyer, or whatever else you might have... perhaps a walkman
09:19<@Rubidium>extmidi is OpenTTD's way of calling an external application for playing the midi
09:20<@Rubidium>by default extmidi calls timidity
09:20<blathijs>You can pass it a "cmd" option to make it use another program (e.g., fluidsynth)
09:20<z-MaTRiX>hi
09:20<Svenska>ah...
09:20<z-MaTRiX>just got a replacement hdd
09:20<blathijs>Rubidium probably knows how to pass an option to an output driver, I don't have openttd handy to check :-)
09:20<Svenska>thanks for now
09:23<@Rubidium>Svenska: try openttd -m extmidi:cmd=fluidsynth (or whatever the name is)
09:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17001 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace some more assert(0)s to NOT_REACHED() and document why they (assert(0)) have to stay for the remaining cases.
09:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: it is just one case! :p (the latter)
09:27<Svenska>Rubidium: thank you, i'll try
09:27<Svenska>for now it doesn't work
09:27<Svenska>i put "extmidi = fluidsynth -l -a alsa -i /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2" in my openttd.cfg
09:28<Svenska>which works from console; is there some kind of debug output?
09:29<@Rubidium>Svenska: extmidi isn't a used setting in 0.7/trunk
09:29<@Rubidium>as a result it isn't used
09:29<Svenska>oh; cause "extmidi = timidity" was in there before
09:30<Svenska>your command doesn't work
09:30<@Rubidium>Svenska: that's from 'long' ago
09:30<Svenska>is there a replacement setting or is it gone?
09:31<@Rubidium>IIRC it's part of music_driver, but if my command doesn't work, then setting the same in music_driver doesn't work either
09:32<@Rubidium>though I'm trying to get it installed on my computer to fiddle a bit
09:36<Yrol>TrueBrain, it certainly is the case, that i dont understand how programming and compiling works, nevertheless i try, i still try since a year or so, regardless of the difficulties i find put in my way by code as well as people. thats, in the end, why i AM here, to ask, to learn how to get stuff working without being helped learnign to walk. if then some people think, how a question is asked is wrong, sorry, they can roll up their oh so holy pamphlet of that
09:37<TrueBrain>Yrol: lol .. ever considerd and read what we try to tell you? Give us some more clues what you are trying
09:37<TrueBrain>we can't help you with: IT DOESNT WORK
09:37<TrueBrain>but .. I tried to say that in 3 different ways now .. I will just give up :)
09:38<Svenska>Rubidium: "cmd" may only accept one word, not a complete command line
09:38<Svenska>using a script which just calls fluidsynth works
09:38<Svenska>but when I quit openttd, the song plays to its end :)
09:39-!-MizardX [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: reboot]
09:40<@Rubidium>Svenska: then that's probably the simplest way to get it to work
09:41<Svenska>well, openttd does probably not support ALSA midi?
09:41<@Rubidium>OpenTTD doesn't do alsa directly
09:41<Svenska>then same question for SDL probably
09:41<TrueBrain>http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html <- nice website :)
09:42<Svenska>another question: can I get the fonts larger (without changing resolution) ?
09:42<@Rubidium>Svenska: SDL doesn't do midi
09:42-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has joined #openttd
09:42<@Rubidium>Svenska: openttd does support allegro midi though
09:42<TrueBrain>hmm .. when I don't send any music to my boxes, I receive AM over it ...
09:43<Svenska>i'll have a look, thank you
09:43<z-MaTRiX>brb
09:43<Svenska>but still: is there a way to enlarge the fonts?
09:43<z-MaTRiX>haveaniceprogramming
09:44-!-MizardX [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
09:45<@Rubidium>Svenska: yes and no; you can enlarge the fonts, but the GUI doesn't scale (yet), as a result enlarging the font doesn't have much benefit in making stuff more legible
09:45<Svenska>is this planned?
09:45<@Rubidium>yes
09:46<Svenska>(even now, the german texts are getting out of their boxes)
09:46<Svenska>for 0.8.0 ? ;-)
09:46<@Rubidium>probably partially
09:47<@Rubidium>but that all depends on how much time the dev can put into it
09:47<Svenska>okay, 'cause the fonts are way to small for me and resolution changing is, there's simply not enough space
09:47-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
09:48<@Rubidium>that happens when games are designed on 640x480
09:48<Svenska>okay, i wish you a nice afternoon/evening then
09:50<Svenska>bye
09:50-!-Svenska [~Svenska@wh2-212.st.Uni-Magdeburg.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
09:50<@Rubidium>ciao
09:50<@Rubidium>yay... too late again!
09:50<@Rubidium>I'm getting good at that
09:50<TrueBrain>being late?
09:50<TrueBrain>getting late?
09:51<TrueBrain>oh .. I should stop thinking :)
09:52<@Rubidium>as long as I'm not "the late Rubidium" everything's fine (by me at least)
09:52<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
09:53<OwenS>English is so full of funny euphanisms for death (And I know I spelt that horrably wrong)
09:54-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:56<OwenS>And is it just me or is "MPEG-4 Advanced Simple Profile" a really stupid name? :p
09:56<TrueBrain>I agree
09:56<OwenS>... never mind that H.264 is also MPEG-4 (Sooo much confusion could have been saved if that had been MPEG-5...)
09:57<OwenS>And, incidentally, WTF happened to MPEG-3? :p
09:57<OwenS>Though I'm kinda hoping Dirac becomes popular
09:57<TrueBrain>Dirac?
09:58<OwenS>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_(codec)
09:58<OwenS>Royalty free codec by the BBC with better than h.264 efficiency
09:58<TrueBrain>ah ;)
09:58<OwenS>All the fuss over the useless Theora and everyone forgets Dirac
09:59<OwenS>(And Theora is really useles; you can't use decode hardware designed for any of the MPEG family of codecs with it - you can DIrac - cause apparently they wanted to make it different in every possible way)
10:04<TrueBrain>Theora .. Dirac .. who makes up those names?!
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10:05<OwenS>Dirac is named after scientist Paul Dirac :P
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10:37<TrueBrain>it is too hot outside :(
10:37<Azrael->That's why going outside is a bad idea.
10:37<TrueBrain>one needs to do shopping at some point
10:38<TrueBrain>besides, it is getting inside :s
10:38<planetmaker>good point.
10:38<Azrael->Can't you order your shopping on the internet?
10:38<TrueBrain>not if I want it in by today
10:39<Azrael->If I was ever in a position of responsibility (and I sure hope I never am) then I'd just order it online.
10:39-!-Yrol [~Yrol@Pfd51.p.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: MOOOOOOOOOO?????]
10:39<planetmaker>"Without a problem we can't say anything about the real problem." <-- Yexo, you're sure you don't want to replace one word?
10:39<Azrael->Hah! "Moooooo?". What excellent wit.
10:40<TrueBrain>"hy i AM here, to ask, to learn how to get stuff working without being helped learnign to walk" <- I liked this quote more :) Reads to me: I WANT YOU TO DO IT :p
10:41<planetmaker>thread? ^
10:41<TrueBrain>this channel, a while ago
10:42<planetmaker>he :-P
10:42-!-tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:42<planetmaker>good one indeed.
10:50<Xaroth>TrueBrain: it done yet?
10:50<TrueBrain>nope
10:50<TrueBrain>not fixed
10:50<Xaroth>:(
10:50<TrueBrain>can't find it
10:59<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I wish I did ... but I really am out of ideas :(
10:59<@Belugas>Getting better (or worse) everytime : "Hi all i will this be the best way over going about geting trains to over take each other on a net work"
10:59<@Belugas>WHAT???????
10:59<TrueBrain>haha :)
11:00<TrueBrain>the bigger this community gets, the more insane the questions become :)
11:02<Forked>damn community and their people :\
11:02<Forked>s/their/it's*
11:02<TrueBrain>lets ban them all
11:02<TrueBrain>starting with dihedral
11:02<TrueBrain>(hihi :))
11:02*TrueBrain hugs dihedral
11:02<Forked>not the worst choice ;p
11:02*Forked hids
11:03<Forked>damn laptop keyboard.. HIDES.
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11:21<OwenS>I wish less wikis used the Monobook style. It's monotonous...
11:21<TrueBrain>hehe
11:21<TrueBrain>start a campaign :)
11:21<OwenS>It's even more common than SubSilver is/was for PHPbb2...
11:23-!-Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
11:24<valhallasw>OwenS: are there mediawiki skin pages? :P
11:24<valhallasw>I mean, phpBB has a large skin-building-community
11:25<OwenS>valhallasw: I presume there are :P
11:26<OwenS>Even more silly though, I've seen a Monobook styled PMWiki...
11:28<valhallasw>Belugas: probably related to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532
11:29<valhallasw>without the double paste... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532
11:29<@Belugas>mmh?
11:29*Belugas shall look
11:29-!-roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:30<@Belugas>valhallasw, you mean Alain-machin attempt to write something in english?
11:30<valhallasw>yeah
11:30<valhallasw>sorry, I didn't make that clear
11:31<@Belugas>so we are required to start up a commitee everytime this !@#$%&* is saying somethng on the web in order to decrypt it?
11:31<@Belugas>it is pure non sens
11:34-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:34<valhallasw>so is his savegame *grin*
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11:56<@Belugas>mmh... buy a vehicle or build a vehicle
11:59<Lakie>For language purposes, I think "buy" is more correct.
11:59<Lakie>As you usually buy them from the manfactor who has built it?
12:00<Lakie>And since you could be buy already made vehicles or have them made for you, it becomes ambious if you go below the buy from manfactor level.
12:01<TrueBrain>wow, I had to check this really was #openttd .. the most sensible argumentation I have seen all week :)
12:02<TrueBrain>+1 kudo to Lakie :)
12:03<Lakie>Heh
12:05<TrueBrain>(I hope it was clear I was not being sarcastic of which I know is rare for me :))
12:07<Lakie>I was just thinking of how its done in reality, and what would be simplest to understand.
12:09<@Belugas>good point Lakie
12:09<@Belugas>planetmaker raised the issue, i'm "thinking" out loud
12:10<Lakie>Hehe
12:11<@Belugas>it does make more sens since we(user-wise) are transportation companies, not manufacturers
12:11<@Belugas>WHERE'S THE TRUCK PLANT???
12:11<Lakie>Heh, in a void?
12:12<Lakie>We have portals called depots to them.
12:12*Lakie hides
12:12<@Belugas>yeah :D
12:13<@Belugas>mh... not Yeah to Hiding.. Yeah to portals...
12:13<@Belugas>arffff
12:14<Lakie>Heh
12:14<Lakie>Did planetmaker want to know for translating or customizing?
12:15<@Belugas>neither
12:15<@Belugas>correction of trunk
12:15<@Belugas>there's an SF patch for that
12:16<Lakie>Hmmm... ok
12:16<@Belugas>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2997
12:16*Lakie should really keep more up to date with OpenTTD.
12:16<@Belugas>that's what i try to do :D
12:17<Lakie>It does change pretty fast, has quite a massive development rate though. :)
12:18-!-GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd
12:19<Chruker>Can anybody recommend a good client-server like program for windows for watching TV over LANs?
12:19<@Belugas>true Lakie, SO true
12:20<@Belugas>Chruker, usually, when i want TV, i go in my living room...
12:20<Chruker>well, good for you
12:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17002 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Change: also support distant join for waypoints
12:29*Alberth thinks of suggesting a security web-cam to make sure the TV does not move without you noticing it.
12:30<TrueBrain>lol @ Alberth
12:35<Ammler>[18:28] <Belugas> [18:16:09] http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2997 <-- shouldn't the patch also change the keys, else it is just a task for tanslator,?
12:41<planetmaker>That is IMO just a task for translators
12:42<planetmaker>But english.txt isn't translated and it's the example which tranlators usually follow
12:43<@Belugas>it could, dunno
12:43<planetmaker>And I think it itself could be made more consistant
12:43<planetmaker>it's really a no-issue, but well :-)
12:43<@Belugas>for sure, making english change will "force" other translators to consider
12:43<planetmaker>exactly :-)
12:44<planetmaker>and, well. Still, a transport company rather buys than builds vehicles :-)
12:44<planetmaker>After all we get ingame also an offer to buy and test them prior to market release
12:45<planetmaker>If we built them ourselves, that wouldn't happen
12:45-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
12:45<TrueBrain>mornign Yexo
12:46<Yexo>hello TrueBrain
12:47<Ammler>[18:44] <Belugas> for sure, making english change will "force" other translators to consider <-- Also, if you keep the key?
12:47<Yexo>thanks for the message planetmaker
12:47<planetmaker>hm... but I start to see what you mean with "change the keys", Ammler :-)
12:47<planetmaker>Yexo: you're welcome
12:48<planetmaker>Ammler: they're notified of changed strings
12:48<planetmaker>or at least there's a category "changed strings" or "strings needing attention"
12:48<planetmaker>it's good practise to check them from time to time as translator ;-)
12:49<@Rubidium>isn't that the 'default' on you get to when going in the editor?
12:49-!-LadyHawk [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Never underestimate the power of stupidity.]
12:49<planetmaker>dunno. May even be :-)
12:49<planetmaker>I'd have said "all strings" though
12:49<Ammler>ah ok, then it might make sense, not changing the key :-)
12:50<@Rubidium>if there are no missing strings/strings needed attention that'd be the case
12:50<planetmaker>Ammler: that could be done, too. But then it should be done in all languages. So that no action from a translator is required. But rather only asked for
12:51-!-LadyHawk [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
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12:52<Ammler>planetmaker: but then, will it still be makred as "needs attention"?
12:52<planetmaker>dunno
12:52<TMS>How do I start a dedicated server to run in the background?
12:52<TMS>I don't want it hogging the command line.
12:52<Yexo>./openttd -D &
12:52<Ammler>TMS: I wouldn't recommend that, use screen instead.
12:53<Yexo>but I agree with Ammler
12:53<TMS>Why would you recommend against it?
12:53<planetmaker>it may have interesting output :-)
12:54<TMS>But doesn't it log everything?
12:54<planetmaker>and it might help to be able to act as the server itself
12:54<TMS>I mean, surely it does, being a server and all.
12:54<Ammler>console sometimes is more comfort than rcon
12:54<planetmaker>why should it log?
12:54<TMS>In case a bug occurs, and you need logs of what happened?
12:54<Yexo>TMS: OpenTTD doesn't log any output to a file by default
12:55<planetmaker>that's why screen is so handy :-)
12:55<Yexo>you could also redirect all console output
12:55<Ammler>TMS: your server isn't windows?
12:55<TMS>...No.
12:55<@Belugas>ho... SHAME ON YOU!
12:55<TMS>It's ... Debian.
12:55<TMS>Console-only Debian.
12:56<TrueBrain>TMS: btw, to answer your question: ./openttd -D -f forks
12:56<@Belugas>forks?
12:56<@Belugas>works?
12:57<@Belugas>breaks?
12:57<TrueBrain>Belugas: you fork a process
12:57<@Belugas>lies!
12:57<TrueBrain>okay
12:57<TMS>right, I also need to load a savegame on startup, and have it reload everytime the server auto-resets
12:57<@Belugas>i fork a knoife
12:57<TMS>Can this be done?
12:57<@Belugas>knife
12:57<@Rubidium>"imagine there is no fork"... "oh, you're using Windows?"
12:57<planetmaker>TMS: it can.
12:57<@Belugas>hehehe
12:58<planetmaker>best way to control is autopilot+
12:58<planetmaker>ap+
12:58<planetmaker>it's a wrapper tcl script
12:58<TMS>assuming that means I should run apt-get install python ;)
12:59<Ammler>tcl
12:59<TMS>oh, yeah'
12:59<Ammler>and expect
12:59<TMS>Silly me.
13:00<Ammler>then you would be able to control over IRC and give rcon to every op in the channel
13:01<TMS>conveniently enough, I run an IRC server on the same machine
13:01<TMS>(not the one I'm typing on)
13:01<planetmaker>obviously. you're on an oftc server here :-)
13:02<TMS>;)
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13:03<Ammler>oh, btw. creating logs is as easy just pipe the output to file...
13:03<TMS>openttd -D > log.txt
13:03<TMS>simple as that
13:03<Ammler>1>log 2>error
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13:16<TMS>planetmaker: should I use autopilot or ap+?
13:18<OwenS>Does OpenTTD require custom ACKs of every packet or something? Cause otherwise I can't understand how my download speed is sooo slow with OpenTTD compared to everything else
13:19<TrueBrain>yes, we send an ACK of an ACK of an ACK, just to ACK to ACK :p
13:19<TrueBrain>gheheh :)
13:19<TrueBrain>maybe you just have a bad peering :)
13:19<OwenS>Same server is fast via HTTP
13:19<OwenS>Just something funky :p
13:19<TrueBrain>that is your ISP by friend :)
13:19<TrueBrain>'torrent' limitation
13:19<TrueBrain>by = my
13:19<TrueBrain>lol
13:20<Ammler>[19:16] <TMS> planetmaker: should I use autopilot or ap+? <-- +
13:20<TMS>k then
13:20-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
13:21<Ammler>TMS: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=ap+
13:21<OwenS>TrueBrain: If it were a torrent limitation I wouldn't be able to torrent well :p
13:21<TrueBrain>maybe it runs at the same speed? :p
13:22<TrueBrain>the only 'problem' the content service can have, that it always sends a packet of N size
13:22<TrueBrain>(doesn't grow or shrinks depending on the speed)
13:22<OwenS>I was refering to the save game download
13:22<TrueBrain>or either way, last time I looked at the code :p
13:22<TrueBrain>then you were unclear :p
13:23<TrueBrain>in that case again: peering ;)
13:25<OwenS>3 esr3.sheffield3.broadband.bt.net (217.47.73.142) 151.733 ms 151.700 ms 153.575 ms <- First hop off my premisis... OUCH
13:26<TrueBrain>l)
13:26<TrueBrain>;)
13:26<TrueBrain>as said: peering
13:26<TrueBrain>happens
13:26<OwenS>Thats not peering. Thats ISP suckage
13:26<TrueBrain>depends on what is 2) and 4)
13:27<TMS>Ah crap, where do I download Autopilot?
13:27<OwenS>2) 172.16.0.1 4) 217.47.73.13
13:27<TMS>I'm on the main Autopilot page, nothing's here about downloading.
13:27<TrueBrain>OwenS: hostmasks .. but I can lok those up myself :p
13:27<Ammler>TMS: svn
13:27<TMS>oh boy, svn.
13:28<Ammler>well, there is also a zip of the source
13:28<OwenS>150ms first hop latency... BT, I SO HATE YOU
13:28<TMS>What's the SVN server?
13:28<TrueBrain>OwenS: well, that is terrible, yes :p
13:29<OwenS>Even worse: 400ms before it leaves sheffield. WTF is it doing in sheffield anyway? Why is my connection running on ATM so far?
13:30<Ammler>TMS: the link is on the bottom of that page
13:30<TrueBrain>OwenS: don't try to understand peering :)
13:30<TMS>k, thanks
13:31<TrueBrain>(it always takes the cheapest route :))
13:31<OwenS>Within their network all routes should be equal cost!
13:31<TrueBrain>depending on utilization, that might or might not be true :)
13:31<OwenS>150ms me to them; 400ms to the edge of the building; 450ms to london; 600ms to nl; 650ms to server
13:31<TrueBrain>I even offload traffic over other connections within our network if it is needed :p
13:31<TrueBrain>150 from london to AMS-IX?
13:32<TrueBrain>that is VERY poor performance :p
13:32<OwenS>Telehouse London to AMS-IX, yes
13:32<TrueBrain>euhm .. I reach that in 4ms, in worst case :p
13:32<TrueBrain>sometimes 6 .. around this time :p
13:32<OwenS>Though I must say that some routers appear to be being lazy in responding to pings
13:34<TrueBrain>isn't that normal? :)
13:34<OwenS>I mean very very lazy
13:34<OwenS>As in I get large variations between hops :p
13:35<TMS>uhh
13:35<TMS>Once I've started a dedicated server
13:35<TMS>how do I disable it/restart it if it's running in the background?
13:35<Ammler>so you won't use ap+?
13:36<TMS>nah, I'll just use cron
13:36<TrueBrain>TMS: for that you need the console
13:36<TMS>So there's no way to stop the process without using a console?
13:36<TMS>That's... not very good. :/
13:36<Ammler>ap+ has also a api to support kill signals for combine with cron. ;-)
13:36<TrueBrain>make a patch
13:37<OwenS>I need to get us switched onto Virgin Media.
13:37<TMS>I'm having a hard time getting TCL working, and the fact that you have to use SVN to get the files isn't helping.
13:37<OwenS>20MB via DOCCIS (I.E. actually delivered)
13:38<TrueBrain>TMS: apt-get install subversion
13:38<TrueBrain>should't be that much of a problem ;)
13:38<Ammler>well, I offered you the source as zip or what ever...
13:38<OwenS>apt-get install tcl expect :p
13:38<TMS>I mean I don't know how to use svn :(
13:38<TrueBrain>OwenS: I love this country ... internet works here :) Well, unless you take a REALLY crappy ISP :p
13:38<TrueBrain>TMS: svn checkout svn://<url here>
13:39<OwenS>TrueBrain: BT should have a good network. Reality says otherwise...
13:39<Ammler>.nl has a bit trouble with reverse DNS
13:39<TrueBrain>OwenS: I run within 4ms to AMS-IX :p
13:39<TrueBrain>Ammler: lol, what a weird thing to say
13:39<TrueBrain>clearly you don't understand reverse DNS requests :)
13:40<OwenS>A.B.C.D.in-addr.arpa. PTR some.domain.any.tld.
13:40<TrueBrain>and those arpa requests are deligated along the chain to the AS, and ISP, (and possible the user)
13:41<TrueBrain>which means you can in no way ever say that .nl has trouble with reverse DNS
13:41<Ammler>Jul 21 23:30:26 mozart sshd[12235]: Address 82.x.x.x xxx-a.groni1.gr.home.nl, but this does not map back to the address - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! <-- mostly from .nl domains.
13:41<TrueBrain>as it is NOT grouped by that
13:41<TrueBrain>Ammler: so based on ONE entry, you make an assumption?
13:41<TrueBrain>you don't deserve a cookie today, you are a bad sysop :)
13:41<Ammler>no, 2 of our members have that
13:41<Ammler>both are dutch :-)
13:41<TrueBrain>just means an ISP fucked up
13:41<TrueBrain>which is not unusual
13:42<valhallasw>Ammler: cable providers fucking up
13:42<valhallasw>^^
13:42<TrueBrain>Ammler: I know 2 black people who has done jail: ALL black people have done jail
13:42<TrueBrain>I mean .. wtf?
13:43<Ammler>:-D
13:43<TrueBrain>don't make stupid generalizations
13:43<TrueBrain>makes you look stupid
13:43<OwenS>Reminds me to update my server's RDNS
13:43<OwenS>TrueBrain: 4ms to AMS-IX? I get 202ms to edge of LINX and 198ms to AMS-IX
13:43<TrueBrain>OwenS: hehe, I did just that too :p :p
13:43<Ammler>TrueBrain: you began with
13:44<TrueBrain>OwenS: within 20 meters of copper, I run on fiber (all the way to the AS, and on)
13:44<TrueBrain>so it is not really fair ;)
13:44<OwenS>I think I have 3 miles of copper...
13:44<OwenS>Thats as-the-crow-flies, not actual length..
13:44<TrueBrain>the copper allows me 100 mbit/s, the fiber 1 gbit/s (up to the local POP), after that it is 40 gbit/s :p
13:44<OwenS>Virgin Media I'd have about 5 meters of copper...
13:45<valhallasw>TrueBrain: 20 meters? most colocated boxes have more copper than that :P
13:45<TrueBrain>valhallasw: most likely :)
13:45<TrueBrain>well, not really
13:45<OwenS>(5 meters of DOCCIS over copper coax anyway)
13:45<TrueBrain>depends :p
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17003 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 21 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 6 changes by SupSuper
13:45<valhallasw>yeah, I realized that when I said it :P
13:45<TrueBrain>most racks have fibers nowedays
13:45<OwenS>(Fiber-to-the-pedestal)
13:45<TMS>You guys said http://svn.openttdcoop.org/tools/autopilot/branches/ap+/ is the SVN url
13:45<TMS>that's an HTTP version
13:45<TMS>I need the raw SVN url
13:46<Ammler>svn supports http
13:46<valhallasw>hmm, leidenuniv ip? :P
13:46<TrueBrain>TMS: try before complain
13:46<TrueBrain>valhallasw: dah
13:46<OwenS>TMS: Thats an SVN Webdav URL...
13:46-!-hermy [~smerek@222.74.200.2] has joined #openttd
13:46<hermy>Télécharger ce script / Download this script / Transfiera esta mIRC escritura / Laden Sie diesen Index herunter www.ircfr.com/telecharger.aspx?ID=50235
13:46-!-hermy [~smerek@222.74.200.2] has left #openttd []
13:46<TMS>well, that's the one that the page provided to me
13:46<TrueBrain>valhallasw: student housing .. so copper till the box in my hallway, fiber to uni, fiber to surfnet :p
13:47<Ammler>cool, first time, our +m worked :-)
13:47-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:47<OwenS>TMS: svn co http://svn.openttdcoop.org/tools/autopilot/branches/ap+/ autopilot
13:47<Ammler>[19:46] --> hermy hat den Kanal betreten (~smerek@222.74.200.2).
13:47<Yexo>Existing translations: "Geef plaatsnamen weer
13:47<Yexo>", "Geef stationsnamen weer
13:47<Yexo>". let's be consistent, lets add "Namen controlepost weergegeven
13:47<Yexo>"
13:47<Ammler>[19:46] <-- hermy hat den Kanal verlassen.
13:47<valhallasw>TrueBrain: right :P
13:48<TrueBrain>Ammler: what are you babbling?
13:48<TrueBrain>@mode +m
13:48-!-mode/#openttd [+m] by DorpsGek
13:48-!-mode/#openttd [-m] by DorpsGek
13:48<Ammler>well, first time I saw it working.
13:48<TrueBrain>doesn't look like it was +m, was it?
13:48<Ammler>TrueBrain: we use +m on #openttdcoop
13:49<TrueBrain>ah, yes, sorry, my cristal ball indeed told me that
13:49<TrueBrain>my mistake
13:49<Ammler>well, it was SmatZyIdea
13:50<TrueBrain>you do understand I am complainnig about your absolute lack of putting things in perspective for us?
13:50<TrueBrain>and that you just started to babble something? :)
13:50*Yexo goes changing all newly translated strings :(
13:50<TrueBrain>(worse: you started to talk non-english :p)
13:50<TrueBrain>Yexo: good luck :)
13:51<OwenS>I wish HE or such 100mb/s pipes were cheaper. Dealing directly with a backbone provider would be awesome. Getting a public IPv4 range even more so :P
13:51<Yexo>TrueBrain: just the 5 strings from this commit
13:51<OwenS>(And I mean orders of magnitude cheaper :P )
13:51<TrueBrain>OwenS: lol ... why you want a public ipv4 RANGE?
13:51-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
13:51<TrueBrain>for that we have datacenters :p
13:51<OwenS>TrueBrain: Datacenters don't make very good places to work :p
13:51<TrueBrain>OwenS: to work you only need 1 IP :)
13:52<TrueBrain>never needed more .. :p
13:52<OwenS>Need? No. Want? Yes. Would be convinient :p
13:52<TrueBrain>for what? :)
13:52<TrueBrain>I really wonder, for what do you need it?
13:52<OwenS>Assigning my virtual machines IPs :p
13:53<TrueBrain>for that, you have datacenters :p
13:53<valhallasw>why would you want to use external ips for that?
13:53<TrueBrain>ghehe
13:53<TrueBrain>use IPv6 ;)
13:53<valhallasw>or NAT :P
13:54<Yexo>"Eerst trein controlepost verwijderd" <- what kind of Dutch is that?
13:54<TrueBrain>potjes nederlands :p
13:54<valhallasw>kill-it-with-fire-dutch :p
13:54<TrueBrain>poor Yexo .. he has work to do :)
13:54<TrueBrain>looks like me trying to translate :p
13:54<Yexo>I don't mind a bit translating, but I hate having to fix translations because somebody is very inconsistent
13:55<TrueBrain>(dyslectic, always fun to read back what I wrote :))
13:55<TrueBrain>Yexo: I am just happy WT3 shows you it is inconsistent :p
13:56<Yexo>actually the commit diff showed me it was inconsistent :p
13:56<TrueBrain>doh :'(
13:56<TrueBrain>hehe
13:56<TrueBrain>was worth a shot :)
13:56<Yexo>but wt3 makes it easy to look up the already existing translations, and to fix it :)
13:58<OwenS>Other BT complaints: Shitty router which they "upgrade" the firmware on (Crippling features) without asking; The whole Phorm affair; don't support IP multicast; etc
13:58<TrueBrain>poor OwenS
13:58<TrueBrain>I think you should start your own ISP
13:58<TrueBrain>sounds like you make a shot with decent quality :)
13:58-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:59<Yexo>hmm, a decent translations for "sign", I don't like "bord", but maybe it's the best there is
13:59<OwenS>I also wish routers supported SCTP. Being able to use it instead of TCP would rock...
13:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: cant think up a better
14:01<OwenS>While I think about it... Doesn't every IPv6 /48 come with a /64 of multicast addresses?
14:02<TrueBrain>can't remember last time I used multicast .. :)
14:02<OwenS>Would this be related to the fact no ISPs support it? :p
14:02<OwenS>Which is quite silly as it would help them a lot...
14:03<TrueBrain>for what is it ever useful? :)
14:03<TrueBrain>radio and tv .. for that it can be useful :p
14:03<Alberth>brb
14:05<valhallasw>TrueBrain: try multicast on campzone and see if the crew comes hunting you :p
14:05<TrueBrain>valhallasw: there is a good idea :)
14:06<valhallasw>(someone tried that. some routers convert multicast to unicast. chaos ensues)
14:06<OwenS>lol
14:06<TrueBrain>valhallasw: I expected more of them :)
14:06<TrueBrain>we filter all multicast away at router
14:06-!-Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.212.114.228.131.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
14:07-!-Alberth1 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:07<valhallasw>er, wait
14:07<valhallasw>s/routers/switches
14:07<TrueBrain>valhallasw: even worse
14:07<valhallasw>but the new network setup is quite nice.. routed, but allowing for broadcast
14:07<OwenS>WTF is a switch doing interpreting multicast traffic? :p
14:08<TrueBrain>OwenS: I wonder about that too
14:08<TrueBrain>a layer3 switch might do that
14:08<TrueBrain>but even then ...
14:08<valhallasw>acting stupid, probably
14:08<OwenS>But a layer 3 switch is really just a fast but limited router
14:08<TrueBrain>very true; still a switch ;)
14:08<TrueBrain>a l2 switch should never touch traffic in that way
14:08<TrueBrain>just put the multicast on all ports, and let that be it
14:09<TrueBrain>valhallasw: hehe, allowing broadcast is useful yes :p
14:09<TMS>Where is openttd.cfg stored in Linux?
14:09<OwenS>Or, if it's being fancy, IGMP snoop to decide where the multicast should go. But convert to unicast? WTF? Your clients are gonna be confused!
14:09<TrueBrain>TMS: ~/.openttd
14:09<TMS>right, thanks
14:10<TrueBrain>valhallasw: I believe we just called the netops of campzone retards :p :p :p
14:10<TrueBrain>truth is, never been there
14:10<TrueBrain>I don't know the size of the network they try to setup
14:11<TrueBrain>last LAN party I arranged had 100 clients
14:11<TrueBrain>some catalyst 2950, and we were done
14:11<valhallasw>the backbone is fine. It's the people using their own switches :P
14:11<valhallasw>afair
14:11-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11<OwenS>Thats where you wish Ethernet had TTL
14:11<TrueBrain>it has hopcount
14:12<TrueBrain>:p
14:12<TrueBrain>I once spend 2 hours tracing a packet that was bouncing on and off switches ..
14:12<TrueBrain>not something you wish to do every day :)
14:12<OwenS>lol
14:12<TrueBrain>switched off the complete network to get ride of the packet :p
14:12<TrueBrain>so I agree on the TTL :P
14:12<OwenS>If I were setting up their network, I'd set the hopcount on all packets going to users to be 1 from the end. I.E, don't use your own switches :P
14:13<TrueBrain>OwenS: nasty ;)
14:13<TrueBrain>although easy to fix (from the cilent point of view)
14:13<OwenS>Alternatively, set it to 2 from the end so it can't come back :p
14:14<TrueBrain>hmm .. my roommates filled up 500 GB of shit in the last 3 weeks ...
14:15<OwenS>owenshep@Asuka:~$ zfs list
14:15<OwenS>media 381G 1.41T 381G /var/media
14:15<OwenS>I had arround 500GB before I made a mistake with debian-installer :'(
14:16<TrueBrain>auch
14:16<TrueBrain>I allocated 500G for my roommates to use
14:16<TrueBrain>they tend to fill it up ... quickly :s
14:16<valhallasw>rm -rf
14:16<valhallasw>fixed \o/
14:16<OwenS>(381GB used, 1.41TB free, 381GB "refer", whatever it is)
14:16<TrueBrain>OwenS: free? Not total size?
14:17-!-Azrael [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
14:17<TrueBrain>valhallasw: read too much BOFH?
14:17<OwenS>TrueBrain: That gets confusing when a volume has a quota assigned or such :p
14:17<TrueBrain>btw, valhallasw, when is campzone?
14:17<valhallasw>I have no idea
14:17<OwenS>TrueBrain: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/User:valhallasw should explain it :p
14:18<valhallasw>:D
14:18<valhallasw>TrueBrain: 31 jul-10 aug
14:18<TrueBrain>ah, today :p
14:18<OwenS>But, zpool list: media 1.81T 381G 1.44T 20% ONLINE -
14:18<valhallasw>OwenS: outdated \o
14:18<OwenS>1.81Tb of storage
14:18<TMS>k then
14:18<TMS>this is strange.
14:18<TrueBrain>valhallasw: aren't you at it? :p
14:18<TMS>I tried starting a dedicated server
14:18<valhallasw>no ^__^
14:19<TMS>and now whenever I try to connect, it tells me "Network Game Syncrhonization Failed"
14:19<valhallasw>I've got *vacation*
14:19<valhallasw>finally
14:19<valhallasw>so
14:19<TrueBrain>hehe
14:19<valhallasw>no
14:19<TrueBrain>how far are you? (study-wise)
14:19<TMS>Why is this?
14:19<valhallasw>I'm not gonna sit in a tent and play computer games
14:19<valhallasw>next year I'm going to finish my bachelors (astrophysics/physics)
14:19<TrueBrain>I remember what you did ;)
14:20<TrueBrain>nice :) I hope you make it :)
14:20<OwenS>Astrophysics/physics? Good choice. What I'm gonna be going for =)
14:20<TrueBrain>already any idea on what you are going to do your bachelor project?
14:20<valhallasw>LOFAR is the only combined project that sounds interesting
14:20<TrueBrain>OwenS: worst part about this is, I did astro for a few years at the same place valhallasw went .. yet we never met :p
14:20<OwenS>lol
14:21<TrueBrain>LOFAR, don't get me started on LOFAR :p
14:21<TrueBrain>valhallasw: but yeah, interesting subject :)
14:22<TrueBrain>OwenS: truth there, I wonder if any of us in here would regornise the other when standing in front of you :p
14:22<TrueBrain>last time in class I had someone saying: OpenTTD is such a cool game, I wish I knew how to get my patch applied!
14:22<OwenS>That is a point :p
14:22<TrueBrain>I had to laugh .. really hard :)
14:22<OwenS>lool
14:23<OwenS>Small world indeed
14:23<TrueBrain>it is that the patch really sucked ..... :p
14:23<valhallasw>TrueBrain: Huygens, 3rd floor, in front of the door is a solution :P
14:23<TrueBrain>valhallasw: yeah, I looked it over once
14:23<valhallasw>I you'd really care :P
14:24<TrueBrain>but forgot your name .. only knew it was with an M
14:24-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:24<TrueBrain>my picture isn't up there :p :p :p
14:24<valhallasw>doh.
14:24<TrueBrain>next year I have to pass EM1 and KM1 (yeah, go figure), so I will be around more .. will look :p
14:24<valhallasw>LOL
14:24<OwenS>orudge will probably be delighted to know that St Andrews is the university it looks like I most want to go to :p
14:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: I will sure to notify him intime, so he could give you a ..... warm welcome
14:25<TrueBrain>with cold water :p
14:25<OwenS>TrueBrain: He won't be there :p
14:26<OwenS>Well... unless he's doing a postgraduate :P
14:26-!-Forconin [~forconin@s0033-0002.dsl.start.no] has joined #openttd
14:26<valhallasw>Afstandsbepaling van M3 (NGC 5272) via RR Lyrae
14:26<valhallasw>dumdumdum.
14:27<TrueBrain>don't peek in my user folder
14:27<TrueBrain>it is rude
14:27<Forconin>Anyone experienced any problems with diff_custom in openttd.cfg lately?
14:27<OwenS>Would always be fun to meet him of course :p
14:27<Forconin>100% sure i turned off breakdowns
14:27<valhallasw>I'm not. Just googling :P
14:27<TrueBrain>Forconin: yeah, it no longer exists
14:27<Forconin>but my planes are still breaking down
14:27<Forconin>TrueBrain: Aw, crap
14:27<TrueBrain>look at the wiki, it will tell you all you want to know
14:27<TrueBrain>valhallasw: ghehe :)
14:27<Forconin>I looked at the wiki. That's where i found it.
14:28<TrueBrain>start the game with a GUI, and switch it off ;)
14:28<Forconin>no GUI, dedicated server.
14:28<Yexo>Forconin: what wiki page?
14:28<OwenS>Forconin: Copy a cfg from your local machine then
14:28<TrueBrain>Forconin: then I can't help you :) (wish has to do with my lack of knowledge :))
14:29<Yexo>diff_custom is obsolete since somewhere before 0.7
14:29<Forconin>Ok, thanks guys. :)
14:29<Yexo>it's replaced by the [difficulty] section
14:29<Yexo>but what wiki page did you find it on?
14:30<OwenS>LOL. "At the ISPA Awards, The Internet Villain went to Stephen Conroy and the Australian Government, for continuing to promote network-level blocking despite significant national and international opposition."
14:31<valhallasw>ah, there we go
14:31<TrueBrain>you finally found a picture of me?
14:31<valhallasw>yes
14:31<TrueBrain>should be easy, as I have a few on openttd.org :p
14:31<valhallasw>DLF almanak :p
14:31<valhallasw>doh.
14:31<TrueBrain>show me :)
14:31<valhallasw>:D
14:31<TrueBrain>LOL!
14:31<TrueBrain>almanak, yeah, they have one :)
14:31<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/
14:31<TrueBrain>to make it easier ;)
14:31<TrueBrain>some are really old btw :p
14:32<Tekky>Is it true that in 30 minutes the next nightly will be built?
14:32<TrueBrain>Tekky: it is more that 30 minutes ago it started
14:32<TrueBrain>I thikn in 7 minutes it will be done?
14:32<Tekky>Ah, thanks :)
14:37<@Rubidium>I vote for it to be finished at 20:46
14:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I thought you made it faster? :)
14:37<@Rubidium>yeah, from 48 to 46! ;)
14:37<TrueBrain>lol :)
14:39<@Rubidium>though I have to agree... the newly added Dutch strings are, except 1, inconsistent with the already existing ones
14:40<@Rubidium>bad habell
14:40<@Rubidium>"waypoint" is an Indonesian word?
14:40<TrueBrain>they just added it to the dictonary ;)
14:43<OwenS>http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/07/28/hp_packaging_2.jpg <-- ROFLMAO
14:43<TrueBrain>hehe
14:43<OwenS>I also like the Sony one: http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/07/28/hp_packaging_2.jpg
14:43<OwenS>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/29/aboxalypse_now/page5.html even
14:44<TrueBrain>lol
14:44<KingJ>Saw that article last night, pretty amazing
14:45<planetmaker>TMS: ap+ is the successor of autopilot
14:46<OwenS>I must say, in delivering my Mini-ITX, eBuyer shipped me it in 4 boxes 4 days. 2 boxes big enough to contain all the parts...
14:47<KingJ>I had dell deliver 3 replacement PDA styluses in a large box, with the 3 styluses tucked under the bottom flap
14:49<Tekky>Yay, the nightly build is completed. :-) Now it is time to test the new feature for distant joins of waypoints. Thanks for your work on implementing it, Rubidium.
14:52<planetmaker>TrueBrain: afaik the campzone is right now
14:52<TrueBrain>planetmaker: we established that, yes ;)
14:52<planetmaker>he :-P I'm not through the backlog :-P
14:52<TrueBrain>:)
14:52<TrueBrain>that you read it in so much detail .. ;)
14:52<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I usually just skim it, unless highlighted ;)
14:53<planetmaker>yeah. Usually. Today is unusual :-)
14:53<TrueBrain>Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium
14:53<TrueBrain>this is going to be fun :)
14:53<Forconin>hmm
14:53<Forconin>Can't seem to get [Difficulty] to work
14:53<Forconin>weird
14:53<TrueBrain>(I expect a kick now .. somehow :p)
14:53<TrueBrain>Forconin: which version do you use?
14:53<Forconin>0.7.1
14:53<Forconin>Linux
14:53<Forconin>or
14:53<Forconin>it works
14:53<Forconin>but it resets itself every time i start the server
14:54<Forconin>hm
14:54<TrueBrain>don't load a game ;)
14:54<Forconin>maybe diff_level doing it?
14:54<planetmaker>:-)
14:54<planetmaker>loaded games override cfg
14:54<@Rubidium>Forconin: a) is there diff_custom lingering around in the config file? b) is diff_level != 3?
14:54<Forconin>No loading
14:54<Forconin>diff_level it was
14:54<Forconin>thanks
14:54<planetmaker>:-) Seems like easy help... :-P
14:55-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B778F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:56<Tekky>Oh, in the latest nightly build, OpenTTD crashes when I bulldoze my old single-tile waypoint. However, when I remove the waypoint using the waypoint tool (instead of the bulldoze tool), it doesn't crash. I'll make a ticket on bugs.openttd.org and attach my savegame.
14:58-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75A72.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:58<planetmaker>:D @ Tekky
14:58<planetmaker>ok, no good point to upgrade, I guess :-)
14:59<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it's never a good point to upgrade!
15:00<Tekky>Ah, if I save the game and then load the game again and only then bulldoze the waypoint, the game does not crash.
15:01*Tekky is opening a ticket on bugs.openttd.org
15:01-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>so the fault is upon loading old savegames?
15:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yup, though saving and reloading will fix it
15:03<Tekky>Eddi|zuHause: Yes, well, the savegame is not that old. It is about one or two weeks old.
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, "old" being "last savegame version bump"
15:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17004 /trunk/src/saveload/ (station_sl.cpp waypoint_sl.cpp): -Fix (r16909): StationRect of loading buoys/waypoints wasn't correctly set when loading 'old' games.
15:07<Tekky>Oh, the bug is fixed already? :) Hehe, Rubidium is fixing bugs faster than I can report them to bugs.openttd.org :)
15:08<@Rubidium>Tekky: possibly, I'm not 100% sure
15:08<@Rubidium>though you should test r17004 with your savegame
15:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: if you load a post 16909 savegame there should be no problem with the waypoint deletion
15:09<@Belugas>but but but... he need to compile it!!
15:10<@Rubidium>compiling doesn't take that long
15:10<Tekky>Hmmmm, now I must either await the next nightly build or set up my compiler for building OpenTTD (which I must do soon anzwa
15:10<Tekky>anzwa = anyway (typo)
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>wrong keyboard :p
15:10<Yexo>or download yesterdays nightly and play with that
15:10<TrueBrain>anzwa anzwa anzwa!
15:10<TrueBrain>wassenaar!
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>ok... that's too much for me...
15:11<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: definitely, wassen is naar
15:11<Tekky>Yexo: Yesterday's nightly has the same problem.
15:11<Yexo>hmm, right
15:11<@Belugas>wazzupmaaaaaan?
15:11<Yexo>but just saving the game and reloading is did fix the problem, so why not do that?
15:12-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/Swahili/anzwa <- interesting :p
15:13<TrueBrain>indeed
15:13<TrueBrain>you found a language where it meant something
15:13<TrueBrain>very interesting
15:14-!-Tekky_ [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.164.163.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd
15:14<Tekky_>Yexo: Well, it did not crash when I did that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the savegame is not corrupted.
15:14<Yexo>the stationrect is not saved in the savegame, so it's correct as soon as you load it
15:15-!-thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd
15:15<TrueBrain>what is your nick?
15:16<Tekky_>Mine? I just got disconnected and my IRC client is waiting for my other nick to get kicked.
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, not yours.
15:16-!-Tekky was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [your wish is my command]
15:17<@Rubidium>very honoured sys admin, would you please me by taking a look why paste.openttd.org doesn't work?
15:17<TrueBrain>I guess he means me
15:17<@Belugas>too precise a request to me honoured
15:17<Tekky_>Ah, thanks Belugas.
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: prime example of requesting a secondary thing when that secondary thing is not even suitible to solve the original problem
15:18<@Belugas>-i+a
15:18<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the VPS is crashed .. completely :p
15:18<TrueBrain>out of memoryu
15:18<TrueBrain>stupid Apache ....
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>suitable?
15:18<@Belugas>i think
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>i'll always mix that up ;)
15:19<TrueBrain>Rubidium: there you go
15:19<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: thanks :)
15:19-!-Tekky_ is now known as Tekky
15:20<@Rubidium>if you want a cookie, you've got to come and get it
15:20<@Rubidium>before I eat it ;)
15:20<TrueBrain>tempting
15:20<TrueBrain>but I think you eat it in those 3 hours
15:20*Rubidium slaps the spammer that killed paste.openttd.org
15:21<TrueBrain>yup
15:21<TrueBrain>I should move it to django ...
15:21<TrueBrain>too lazy
15:21<TrueBrain>WT3.1 first
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15:24<OwenS>I wish PBS could do path sharing, as if "You can follow this path as long as you do not exceed X speed"
15:25<@Belugas>interesting... we have lost all http connectivity in here. we can use ftp, https, but not http protocols
15:25<OwenS>Belugas: Your ISP may use transparent HTTP proxying
15:25<TrueBrain>I think his company does :p
15:26<@Rubidium>I remember doing that at high school... to block chat sites
15:26<@Rubidium>the French teacher didn't like it
15:27<TrueBrain>she couldn't chat? :)
15:27<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: no, we had to look for some castle
15:27<Ammler>OwenS: check for advance signals or such like.
15:28<OwenS>wha?
15:28<@Rubidium>for the ones that don't know French, château is French for castle and in URLs that's usually written as chateau
15:28<OwenS>lol
15:29<TrueBrain>oh, they blocked 'chat' specificly
15:29<OwenS>My highschool blocked wikipedia...
15:29<TrueBrain>now it makes sense
15:30<Ammler>OwenS: a patch from michi_cc to extend yapp
15:30<OwenS>aah
15:30<@Rubidium>not to mention that me being part admin caused the backup (of the new sysadmin) to fail for about a year
15:30<Ammler>there is also a similar patch, something like "longer path signal"
15:31<OwenS>I was an admin at my school. The sysadmin did not know this for quite a while. He was not amused :P
15:31<@Rubidium>we had a course Arabic, so we had one computer with an Arabic office, so we had Arabic filenames... that broke the backup
15:32<OwenS>lol
15:32<TrueBrain>OwenS: last time I had a punk ass gaining admin rights on the local machine (which, for the record, is dead easy on any windows machine) and failed to tell me that ... well .. lets say he had a really horrible month
15:32<OwenS>Not local machine
15:32<TrueBrain>I don't appreciate it when someone hacks my network and doesn't tell me about it .. then tries to do all innocente and sweet ...
15:32<OwenS>Really bad syadmin :p
15:33<OwenS>TBH place was more secure after I was through with it
15:33<TrueBrain>he had a really horrible month ... really horrible ....
15:33<OwenS>The number of shares which I disabled global write access on was ridiculous
15:33-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:33<TrueBrain>if you find a security problem, fine. REPORT IT
15:33<OwenS>TrueBrain: This was a while ago...
15:33<TrueBrain>asses of 16 year thinking they own the world :p
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15:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: well, I became sysop there by walking into the sysops office and showing him how I could shut down the network with 2 commands :p
15:34<@Rubidium>and as icing on the cake... if the (new) sysadmin didn't know how to fix something, they asked me
15:35<Alberth1>:)
15:35<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
15:35<OwenS>Our sysadmin was... the kind who would yell at you if you told him that kind of thing
15:35<OwenS>Then report you further up. Then drag you through hell
15:35<Forconin>Hm, question: Will it ever be possible to have more than 8 companies in a game?
15:35<TrueBrain>if you would not tell me right away, I would do the same :)
15:35<TrueBrain>Forconin: yes; you can have 15
15:35<OwenS>If you did tell him
15:35<Forconin>TrueBrain: You can?
15:35<Forconin>Hm, nice.
15:36<TrueBrain>but if you are a bit reasonable sysop, and someone tells you before or right after, you let him help you :)
15:36<TrueBrain>one of those 16 years old once defaced the school website
15:36*Rubidium remembers jolting the sysadmin to get an OS upgrade ;)
15:36<TrueBrain>he came to me within the hour
15:36<TrueBrain>I had a good long laugh :)
15:36<OwenS>lol
15:36<TrueBrain>he had a very good next month ;)
15:37<TrueBrain>I respect that, if someone defaces a website, and tells you about it :) And makes the deface .. well .. funny :p
15:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: what? MSDos 3.1 not good enough for you? :p
15:37<OwenS>That reminds me, when I get back, to prod the college sysadmins that they're running a version of apache with lots of security holes
15:37<@Rubidium>... buying a *completely* new network, including computers, and then install Windows 95 on then when Windows XP was about to be released
15:37<TrueBrain>OwenS: you can remove 'a version of'
15:38<TrueBrain>Rubidium: ghehe :)
15:38<OwenS>TrueBrain: Theres running apache. Then theres running a 1 year old version of apache.
15:38<@Rubidium>the computers came with Windows 2000
15:38<OwenS>Apache/win32 for that matter...
15:38<TrueBrain>either way .. I was about to write the import of WT3.1 ...
15:38<OwenS>I also should complain about the fact that they can't deploy .net properly
15:39<OwenS>(Their deployment has all the language files broken...)
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>fuck... i think the HD is completely dead now
15:39<OwenS>Final complaint: They still have machines with IE6...
15:39<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: didn't I told you to send it back? :p
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that is easier said than done
15:40<TrueBrain>OwenS: rolling out .NET in a sane way is IMPOSSIBLE
15:40<TrueBrain>OwenS: same as deploying both Office 2003 and Office 2007
15:40<TrueBrain>which is impossible :s
15:40<TrueBrain>by documentation only Outlook should be the problem .. in reality, it is much bigger
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>and from "i can't read a sector" to "disk doesn't start up" is kind of a huge jump so suddenly...
15:40<TrueBrain>at the subject, Acrobat Reader 9 can't be used with roaming profiles (Windows AD)
15:40<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Not really. "I can't read a sector" means disk is almost dead
15:41<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: pick it up, 10cm above the ground, drop it
15:41<TrueBrain>try again :p
15:41<TrueBrain>OwenS: it was the replacement disk :p
15:41<OwenS>lol
15:42<OwenS>Speaking of Office 2007. I was not pleased when said school sysadmin rolled out Office 2007. Without leaving the prior version there. Two weeks before a coursework deadline
15:42<TrueBrain>:s
15:42<TrueBrain>that is just bad timing
15:42<OwenS>Well, correction: Two weeks before everyone's coursework deadlines
15:43<OwenS>In one month there was a two week holiday and all the coursework would be over. Could he not wait? ...
15:43<TrueBrain>that said: there is never a good timing for such upgrades
15:44<TrueBrain>I once tried to do a network upgrade ... I requested a timeslot for it ... there was NO timeslot for it granted within the next 4 weeks, including weekends and evenings (up to 21:00, I refuse to work after that)
15:44<TrueBrain>(and then you need to know me .. I just pulled the plug the other day and did the replacement :p)
15:44<TrueBrain>"yeah, it failed, it was good we had the replacement ready!"
15:45<Eddi|zuHause><OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Not really. "I can't read a sector" means disk is almost dead <- yes, but they are kind of completely different failure classes... one is the failure of the magnetic part, and one is the failure of the mechanic part...
15:45<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: stricly, the first can also be mechanic
15:45<TrueBrain>but I tend to agree with you ;)
15:47<OwenS>I tend to run a SMART analysis every now and again so I know "Hmm, better get a second spare in for the RAID array"
15:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17005 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIAbstractList::SORT_ASCENDING / SORT_DESCENDING
15:51<OwenS>Thinking of it... I ought to learn how to do Linux softraid rebuilds :p
15:51<TrueBrain>haha, not so easy as one might hope :p
15:51<OwenS>Heh
15:52<OwenS>So not like Solaris ZFS ones - put the new disk in, and tell it taht it's a replacement :p
15:52<TrueBrain>well .. first of all, you need hotswap for that
15:52<TrueBrain>so SATA :p
15:52<TrueBrain>second ... no :p
15:52<OwenS>Solaris ZFS you can even have hot spares in :p
15:52<TrueBrain>yeah, we call it RAID-5
15:52<TrueBrain>but okay
15:53<TrueBrain>well, not by definition
15:53<TrueBrain>hmm .. no, that is bullshit
15:53<TrueBrain>you can always have a hot spare
15:53<OwenS>ZFS does RAID-Z, which is like RAID-5 but faster :p
15:53<TrueBrain>yeah, ZFS is so great :p
15:53<TrueBrain>lol
15:54<OwenS>Available on OS X, FreeBSD and Solaris... but not Linux...
15:54<TrueBrain>but yeah, linux softraid needs ... knowing :p
15:54<TrueBrain>last time we had a drive that failed
15:54<TrueBrain>it just took down the whole machine
15:54<TrueBrain>the softraid kept on trying to access the drive .. over and over and over and over
15:55<OwenS>Reminds me of the mobo I had on which the southbridge went funky
15:55<OwenS>That was fun to diagnose
15:55<TrueBrain>OwenS: sure you are not Bjarni?
15:55<OwenS>lol
15:56<planetmaker>Rubidium: I mainly meant the nightlies. A public server needs those revisions :-)
15:56<OwenS>My desktop has it's RAID array split between a parallel and serial ATA drive as a result of that...
15:56<@Rubidium>planetmaker: for the server the fix doesn't matter, because it won't get it, unless you load a pre r16909 savegame
15:57<OwenS>Controller gave the same indications as for a failed HD...
15:57<planetmaker>Rubidium: sure it does
15:57<planetmaker>oh. pre 909
15:57<@Rubidium>planetmaker: why?
15:57<planetmaker>no.
15:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17006 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_map.hpp ai_map.hpp.sq squirrel_export.awk): -Fix (r17005): gcc compile failure
15:57<planetmaker>we're at 973
15:57<@Rubidium>and I also said that loading a pre 16909 savegame in 16704, saving it and reloading works around the problem too
15:59<TrueBrain> utils.TellExtensions("SubProjectInitialize", subProject, argv = argv)
15:59<TrueBrain>TypeError: TellExtensions() got multiple values for keyword argument 'argv'
15:59<TrueBrain>django can be so retarted
16:02<OwenS>TrueBrain: Meh. At least it's not C++ template errors
16:02<OwenS>20 lines before you even get there :p
16:06<OwenS>Im sure OpenTTD developers are used to C++ errors though :p
16:08<TrueBrain>you learn to read through them :)
16:10<OwenS>Or rather ignore the "Instantiated from here, instantiated from there, instantiated from over here"
16:10<TrueBrain># Doesn't it make you sad, to see so much love denied, see nothing but a shadowman inside
16:11<TrueBrain>OwenS: exactly!
16:11<Alberth1>and substitute your own nice template type name back in the error mesg before reading it :p
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16:22<TrueBrain>WHIIIIEEEEEeeeeeee, importing english.txt works :)
16:22-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has joined #openttd
16:25*planetmaker hugs TrueBrain :-)
16:25<planetmaker>nice!
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16:27<TrueBrain>enough creativity for today :)
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16:31<TrueBrain>hmm .. that I receive AM is starting to be annoying me ... even when playing sound I hear the radio over the boxes :s
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>hehe, i had that too ;)
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16:43<Zuu>Whoo, dragable waypoints :-)
16:43<TrueBrain>yeah, Rubidium is the best :)
16:44<Zuu>Saw on the logs what was to come, and today we got to test it. :-)
16:45<OwenS>Whoa. OpenTTD at 5spf. Didn't think I'd ever see that happen
16:45<OwenS>(Yes, thats seconds per frame)
16:45<TrueBrain>does it have a fps?
16:46<OwenS>I don't know the actual FPS... but it's beyond unusable
16:46<TrueBrain>no worries, it has a fps :)
16:46<TrueBrain>tps, in our case :p (ticks)
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17:11<@Belugas>holly macaroni!!!
17:12*Belugas runs home
17:12<TrueBrain>where?
17:12<TrueBrain>where?
17:12<TrueBrain>oeh, good luck
17:12<TrueBrain>can I suggest to take the car?
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17:19<TrueBrain>boring in here
17:20<frosch123>if you are bored, sometimes it helps to highlight sacro
17:20<TrueBrain>"OpenTTD won't open!" <- /me gniffels at the name
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17:20<TrueBrain>Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro
17:20<Aali>Mushroom Mushroom
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17:31<@Rubidium>DaleStan: http://rbijker.net/openttd/grfcodec_make_makefiles_like_grfcodec_deletes_some_files.diff reworks the grfcodec makefiles to be like nforenum's. In effect it adds Makefile.local.sample so you can override Makefile stuff without changing one of the versioned Makefiles. It also improves out-of-the-box MinGW compilation
17:32<@Rubidium>whether cygwin compilation still works I don't know; I don't have that installed
17:34-!-DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:34<@Rubidium>the compile farm also works with those Makefiles ( http://binaries.openttd.org/extra/grfcodec/r4/ )
17:35<@Rubidium>the only question is whether all the right files are included in the bundle
17:35<TrueBrain>Rubidium: did you manual put the files there? Else the index is broken :(
17:36<TrueBrain>or you didn't have installed the proper callback script? :)
17:36<TrueBrain>(too lazy to check :p)
17:36<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: no, I disabled the callback script
17:36<TrueBrain>ah ;)
17:36<TrueBrain>pfew ;)
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17:42<TrueBrain>good night all
17:42<@Rubidium>night TrueBrain
17:42<OwenS>night
17:42<Zuu>Good night TrueBrain
17:43<Zuu>I'm soon of to the beach. :-)
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17007 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt: -Fix (r15896): WT2 reverted the ISO code of Serbian
17:52<OwenS>Aww HLL
17:52<OwenS>Who invented Boost::Bind? WHO? BECAUSE IT GENERATES THE MOST OBTUSE ERRORS
17:55<@Rubidium>OwenS: Peter Dimov, David Abrahams or Multi Media Ltd.
17:55<OwenS>"/usr/include/boost/bind/bind_template.hpp", line 90: Where: Instantiated from boost::_bi::bind_t<void, boost::_mfi::mf3<void,::smart_ban_plugin, std::pair<libtorrent::piece_block,::smart_ban_plugin::block_entry>, int, const libtorrent::disk_io_job&>, boost::_bi::list4<boost::_bi::value<boost::shared_ptr<::smart_ban_plugin>>, boost::_bi::value<std::pair<const libtorrent::piece_block,::smart_ban_plugin::block_entry>>,
17:55<OwenS>boost::arg<1>, boost::arg<2>>>::operator()<int, libtorrent::disk_io_job>(int&, const libtorrent::disk_io_job&). <-- I mean, seriously?
17:56<@Rubidium>never seen GCC's STL ones?
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17:56<OwenS>Rubidium: Yes. They're less obtuse!
17:59<@Rubidium>you can scrap David Abrahams from the list of suspects
18:00<@Rubidium>@calc 39/1255
18:00<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.0310756972112
18:01<@Rubidium>3% comments, well... if you may classify them as comments; I'd classify 11 (<1%) as comments (for the initial commit of bind.hpp)
18:03<@Rubidium>@calc 56/1733
18:03<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.0323139065205
18:03<@Rubidium>oh, it did improve slightly for trunk's version ;)
18:04<OwenS>I will never use Boost willingly. Theres using templates... and theres abusing them to a nonproductive extent
18:05<OwenS>I don't doubt it's got lots of great features. But 10 page errors are not my idea of fun
18:05<OwenS>And, tbh, most of the useful stuff is in Qt anyway
18:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17008 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix [FS#3061]: Resize matrix in station build window vertically according to font height.
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18:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17009 /branches/0.7/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
18:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk/prepare for release:
18:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicles would wait "very long" when they had nothing to unload and gradual loading was disabled [FS#3054] (r16933)
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18:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17010 /tags/0.7.2/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.2
18:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17011 /trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs):
18:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: Add AIBaseStation as a parentclass for AIStation and AIWaypoint, and move GetName, SetName and GetLocation to AIBaseStation
18:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Remove (nearly) all references to WaypointID and replace them with StationID
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>those releases really drown in here :p
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18:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17012 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_basestation.cpp ai_basestation.hpp ai_basestation.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIBaseStation::GetConstructionDate
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19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17013 /trunk/src/script/squirrel_helper.hpp:
19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3074]: concatenating strings in Squirrel when non-ASCII strings were
19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: received from OpenTTD failed. The number of bytes in an UTF-8 encoded string
19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: isn't always the same as the number of characters in the decoded (into wchars)
19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: string
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17014 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.cpp ai_engine.hpp ai_engine.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIEngine::GetDesignDate
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19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17015 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#3075]: infinite recursion in content dependency checking
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20:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17016 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.cpp ai_company.hpp ai_company.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AICompany::Get/Set PresidentGender
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21:01<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 01 00:00:04 2009