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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-10

---Logopened Mon Aug 10 00:00:35 2009
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03:08<SmatZ>TrueBrain: emails from FS now contain broken URL
03:09<SmatZ>More information can be found at the following URL:
03:09<SmatZ>/task/3097#comment6463
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05:53<dihedral>morning :-)
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06:25<fjb>Hello
06:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17142 /trunk/src/ (base_media_base.h gfxinit.cpp sound.cpp): -Fix [FS#3103] (r17139): MSVC didn't like some template stuff
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06:39<TrueBrain>SmatZ: hihi, that is not useful? Will fix :)
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06:52<TrueBrain>hmm .. why do I have such poor memory .. what did frosch report yesterday .. hmm ..
06:52<TrueBrain>ah, yes
06:53<TrueBrain>hmm .. tricky problem SmatZ :p
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what anybody reported yesterday
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>all my memor^Wlogs from yesterday are about old games :p
06:55<TrueBrain>hehehehehe
06:55<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I _think_ I fixed it :p
06:55<TrueBrain>hmm .. no ...
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06:56<TrueBrain>which is just stupid, as it should work :(
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06:58<Eddi|zuHause>i know that problem...
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>everything is correct, but it does not work...
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07:09<TrueBrain>fucking retarded FlySpray with its url scheme ...
07:09<Noldo>huh?
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17143 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#3097]: NewGRFs sometimes got the wrong string causing crashes later on
07:11<TrueBrain>I think Noldo needs to hear it again, as it really is english:
07:12<TrueBrain>fucking retarded FlySpray with its url scheme ...
07:12<Noldo>:D
07:12<Noldo>in what way it is fucking retarded?
07:12<TrueBrain>that it handles at so many places the stripping and adding of http://
07:12<TrueBrain>that is really REALLY wants to have http:// in front of EVERY url in de pages
07:12<TrueBrain>shit like that
07:13<TrueBrain>completely fucked up
07:13<TrueBrain>there .. when I bypass most of that shit
07:13<TrueBrain>things simply work
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07:31<@petern>mmm, absolute urls everywhere
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07:42<SmatZ>TrueBrain: FS is broken, sorting doesn't work
07:42<TrueBrain>retarded stuff
07:44<OwenS>Note to self: Stay the hell away from Flyspray :p
07:48<TrueBrain>euh .. PHP .. how to remove the last char ..
07:48<TrueBrain>can't remember :p
07:48<TrueBrain>ah, like that :p
07:48<TrueBrain>SmatZ: happy? :)
07:49<SmatZ>TrueBrain: works :) yet...
07:50<TrueBrain>hmm .. I moved webstats collection to our new proxy
07:51<TrueBrain>but it shows very little visits :p
07:51<TrueBrain>(36 in 607k hits)
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>s/.$//?
07:55<TrueBrain>I think it is related to the fact webalizer doesn't likes ipv6s ...
08:01<TrueBrain>IPv6 support should be in 2.01-10 ... did debian fuck up?
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08:11<TrueBrain>anyone knows a good webserver log analyzer?
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09:21<Akoz>pikaboo
09:22<@Rubidium>sorry, but Pikka isn't here and please don't scare him
09:22<Akoz>:<
09:23<Akoz>I'll try to restraint myself
09:24<Akoz>is there a hotkey for quick reply to private messages?
09:25<Akoz>in ottd I mean
09:26<@Rubidium>no
09:26<@Rubidium>unless there's only a server and one client
09:28<Akoz>sounds like a feature request
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09:30<+glx>there's a key combo (ctrl-enter or shift-enter)
09:30<Akoz>ctrl+enter = team
09:30<Akoz>shift+enter = enter = all chat
09:31<Akoz>is there a key combo for private message to the last guy that messaged you?
09:31<Akoz>if not it should be made
09:31<+glx>you should code it :)
09:31<Akoz>will do
09:33<@Rubidium>though... there's probably no key you can link it to
09:34<Akoz>ctrl+r
09:34<Akoz>or something?
09:34<Akoz>(aka reply)
09:34<Akoz>*as in
09:34<Akoz>easier than clicking it in the menu
09:35<Akoz>and maybe change "private" to the name of the player you are sending the private message to in case you mis-click
09:35<Akoz>in the typing box
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11:54*TrueBrain is happy he can't pass the dune2 security when starting lvl2 :p
11:54<TrueBrain>hihi
11:55<@petern>hello what?
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12:00<Ammler>make grfcodec seems broken
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12:02<Ammler>yes, also the one from the compile farm doesn't show the right revision
12:03<Ammler>GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r2171E <-- output from r2177 from the compile farm
12:04<Ammler>and no -s
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12:16<Xaroth>TrueBrain is happy he can't pass the dune2 security when starting lvl2 :p <<< ZOMG HEATHEN!
12:16<TrueBrain>do you know all the answers?! :)
12:16<Xaroth>er, i used to :P
12:16<Xaroth>first food
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12:45<fanioz>good night all.. :D
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13:02<TrueBrain>[Mon Aug 10 2009] [18:52:30] <fanioz> hello truebrain, I didn't found a button to create new project at noai.openttd.org. Where is it ?
13:02<TrueBrain>how much can one person not read ...
13:02<TrueBrain>omg ...
13:03<TrueBrain>(to quote the website: "If you are an AI developer, and want an account here, drop Yexo a message.")
13:06<frosch123>but you may also hand the message over
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13:15<Xaroth>TrueBrain: what question?
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13:30<TrueBrain>frosch123: he left way before I could
13:30<TrueBrain>I am not that quick ;)
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13:33<frosch123>:s
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13:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17144 /extra/catcodec/sample.cpp: [catcodec] -Fix (r17141): typos
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17145 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 62 changes by arnaullv
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 4 changes by silentStatic
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 248 changes by miloiw
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 7 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17146 /trunk/src/ (mixer.cpp sound.cpp): -Codechange: improve the sample rate conversion a bit
13:49<planetmaker>Rubidium, catcodec has a funny dir usage:
13:49<planetmaker>if I run it like catcodec ~/.openttd/data/sample.cat
13:49<planetmaker>it outputs sample.sfo in ~/.openttd/data and all the wav files in my current working dir.
13:50<@Rubidium>yeah, that's a feature :)
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13:50<planetmaker>intended?!
13:50<@Rubidium>no, intended usage: no
13:50<planetmaker>so... what would be intended?
13:51<planetmaker>My expectation would be to create the same kind of dir structure as grfcodec.
13:51<@Rubidium>copy the cat to some directory and run it in there, i.e. catcodec sample.cat
13:51<planetmaker>e.g. output everything in a sub-dir where I'm in.
13:52<@Rubidium>planetmaker: cp $@ pm.cat && catcodec -d pm.cat
13:54<@Rubidium>you might like http://rbijker.net/openttd/no-sound.tar though
13:54<OwenS>Out of curiosity, why .tar?
13:55<OwenS>As uncompressed archive formats go... I'd have gone for CPIO, since theres only one CPIO format :p
13:55<@Rubidium>OwenS: because then you can just chuck it in your data directory and OpenTTD can use it (if you've got a recently enough version of OpenTTD)
13:55<planetmaker>nice, Rubidium :-)
13:56<OwenS>Rubidium: I mean why choose .tar for the archive format :p
13:56<planetmaker>OwenS, it's a nice and simple standard?
13:56<OwenS>planetmaker: No, it's 4 nice and simple standards :p
13:56<OwenS>Legacy unix, BSD, GNU and USTAR IIRC
13:57<OwenS>Though, tbh, it's largely academic as everyone uses USTAR these days :p
13:58<planetmaker>I only understand half of what you claim here, OwenS , but I have the feeling that I should disagree
13:59<@Rubidium>OwenS: because some tools provide better support for tar than cpio?
13:59<planetmaker>Rubidium, does that tar already work or does it still need work in trunk?
13:59<OwenS>planetmaker: You have the classic tar format, and 3 mutually incompatible extensions to it: BSD format, GNU format and UStar format. UStar ("Uniform Standard tar") is the modern standard
13:59<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it should already work
14:00<planetmaker>:-) Nice. I think I'll update to completely free then :-)
14:00<@Rubidium>OwenS: e.g. 7zip's cpio extracting sucks
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14:00<planetmaker>And good job: it should make creation of a free sound set WAY easier.
14:01<OwenS>I know the Linux kernel embedded CPIO for it's simplicity :p
14:02<@Rubidium>planetmaker: please redownload it, because it was buggy :)
14:02<planetmaker>Rubidium, which? the tar or catcodec?
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14:03<@Rubidium>tar (and catcodec if not HEAD)
14:03<Wolf01>hello :D
14:04<@Rubidium>OwenS: how do you count? I'm reading 'FreeBSD File Formats Manual' about CPIO: PWB format, Old Binary Format, Portable ASCII Format, New ASCII Format, New CRC Format, HP variants, Other Extensions and Variants
14:05<planetmaker>Rubidium, would you advise to add sound to OpenGFX or make it a seperate project?
14:05<@Rubidium>planetmaker: definitely a seperate project
14:05<LordAzamath>There was a sound replacement project
14:05<LordAzamath>by orudge
14:05<@Rubidium>LordAzamath: I know
14:06<@Rubidium>planetmaker: primarily because then you won't have licensing issues
14:06<planetmaker>Licensing issues?
14:06<@Rubidium>as I don't see a GPL sound replacement happening
14:06<OwenS>Rubidium: Crap; I forgot cpio had spawned lots of formats too >_<
14:06<planetmaker>Well. If added to OpenGFX, a sound would need to be GPL.
14:07<OwenS>GPL seems like an odd license for graphics tbh :p
14:07<@Rubidium>planetmaker: exactly
14:07<OwenS>Most "open source" sounds will be in a Creative Commons license
14:07<frosch123>in any case, you will likely have to prefix tar with a g on solaris, to not get something useful
14:07<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/opensfx.tar <- implements about 40% of the sounds using CC Sampling+ 1.0
14:07<OwenS>frosch123: OpenSolaris uses GNU tar bu default :p
14:08<frosch123>well, usually i am annoyed by solaris 8 or 10 :)
14:08<@Rubidium>and for the opensfx tar I took the stuff with a proper license from the wiki
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14:08<OwenS>frosch123: $ which tar -> /usr/gnu/bin/tar
14:09<frosch123>sounds like: cd / ; ln -s /usr/gnu/bin
14:10<frosch123>well, maybe a rm -rf bin in the middle
14:10<OwenS>frosch123: Nope; /usr/gnu/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin - Old Solaris tar is still there :p
14:10<OwenS>You get it in single user mode :p
14:10<planetmaker>Rubidium, I guess we should create a repo for opensfx on the devzone then :-)
14:10<planetmaker>And advertize a bit :-)
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14:13<Ammler>Rubidium: is that based on the project orudge started?
14:14<@Rubidium>Ammler: kind of, and I kinda forked it
14:14<@orudge>ah
14:14<@Rubidium>planetmaker: good idea
14:14<@orudge>well, most of the original sounds I had were CC-licenced
14:14<@orudge>although some are perhaps uncertain
14:14<@orudge>http://wiki.openttd.org/Sound_Effects_Replacement contains mostly CC
14:15<@Rubidium>orudge: I've taken those, *if* the license was known
14:15<@Rubidium>the rest uses an empty wav
14:15<@orudge>yep
14:15<@orudge>that would seem sensible
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14:16*Rubidium is off for diner though
14:17*Markk has just eaten a pirog (pirozhki)
14:17<OwenS>I really ought to file a bug report about the failure to resize when you toss OpenTTD between desktops
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14:31<Ammler>the CC license of the samples looks compatible with GPL, right?
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14:39<OwenS>Ammler: According to the FSF folks, the CC licenses are incompatible with the GPL IIRC
14:40<Ammler>yeah, but you can use the CC samples and publish it as GPL or do you need keep that CC
14:40-!-TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
14:40<Ammler>GPL->CC might not be possible
14:41<OwenS>Also, what constitutes source code for a sample?
14:41<Ammler>OwenS: that is the reason for CC ;-)
14:41<Ammler>so they don't have to care about sources.
14:42<OwenS>Ammler: I'd say, for OpenGFX, what constitude source code for graphics? :p
14:42<Ammler>in our case, the wav is the source.
14:42<frosch123>OwenS: the originally recorded stuff, and a file that cuts and mixes and effects them to the result
14:42<Ammler>in opengfx, it is the pcx, sometimes psd sometimes png etc.
14:42<frosch123>easy as pie
14:42<Ammler>the source is what we have :-)
14:43<OwenS>I still feel that graphics/sound should stay CC, but a bit late for that now :p
14:43<Ammler>CC is ugly
14:43<Wolf01>bye, stormy weather :P
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14:43<Ammler>as said, I would miss the source.
14:44<OwenS>Ammler: How would you loose the source if yo ustill had the PCXs etc arround?
14:44<Ammler>the idea for community work is, that you should be able to modify.
14:44<Ammler>OwenS: but you don't need with CC
14:44<Ammler>with GPL, we need to keep those working files
14:45<OwenS>The thing is that, for graphics, any format functions fine as both an output and a source format. It's not like a program where theres a complex irreversible conevrsion
14:45<Ammler>well, we don't have many working files for opengfx.
14:45<Ammler>mostly is plain pcx.
14:45-!-xmakina [~xmakina@87.113.19.239.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
14:46<Ammler>CC is good for people like Purno who don't like someone else derivate it.
14:46<Ammler>means the only CC license which makes sense imo, is CC-ND
14:46<frosch123>OwenS: wrong, most graphics are created from multiple layers, which loose information when encoded into the final image
14:47<frosch123>and source is not the earliest point you started from, but the preferred form of editing
14:47<frosch123>which is defined by the copyright holder who releases it
14:47<OwenS>Ammler: The -BY-SA license makes most sense to me
14:47<Ammler>that is like GPL without source, so for community just stupid.
14:48<OwenS>BY-SA makes most sense to Wikipedia as well :p
14:48<Ammler>you can use it but you need to decompile self,
14:49<Ammler>wikipedia isn't compiled, so there it doesn't matter.
14:50<Ammler>of course, better to license BY-SA than ND
14:50<OwenS>GPL gets silly for, eg, the content of the virtual world software i'm developing; there, if you took a screenshot, you'd have to include a dump of all the objects in the world with it :p
14:51<Ammler>well, why do you license the screen shot?
14:51<Sacro>i do like CC-BY-SA
14:52<TrueBrain>GPL only suggests that you need to be able to hand over a dump of all the objects on request :p
14:52<Ammler>Sacro: for which content?
14:52<frosch123>[20:50] <OwenS> GPL gets silly for, eg, the content of the virtual world software i'm developing; there, if you took a screenshot, you'd have to include a dump of all the objects in the world with it :p <- so all any screenshot software on a linux system infringes gpl apriori?
14:53-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
14:53<OwenS>frosch123: Theres a difference between screenshotting the results (I.E. UI) of GPL software and screenshotting GPLed content in said software
14:54<TrueBrain>discusion about screenshots is funny .. there are some cases were people try to sue because someone took a screenshot of a commercial product
14:56<Ammler>CC-BY-SA is best if you don't care and you don't want to take effort for the source.
14:56<Ammler>that is why we help with devzone.
14:57<OwenS>The content of my "public building" virtual worlds will all be CC-BY-SA (I.E. users submitting content to it will have to license it under said license)
14:58<Ammler>so you don't want people making derivates?
14:58<Ammler>(you don't actively support it)
14:59<OwenS>Ammler: I said CC-BY-SA not CC-*-ND :p
14:59<planetmaker>Ammler: a graphics can be edited without much effort from the format you have it supplied...
14:59<Ammler>OwenS: you don't get it :-)
15:01<OwenS>Ammler: People can derive from the content all they want within the confines of the virtual world. If you take the content and use it in your 3D rendering (Quite a substantial task considering you'd have to run through the scripting language to texture it properly :P), you still have to attribute the creator of the content (And me, since it will probably feature models I own :P )
15:02<Ammler>OwenS: I don't know your project, maybe there it is ok.
15:04<Ammler>but take the 32bpp graphics for openttd, there it would be sad, if people just release the final objects and license it with CC-SA, not they also release the source, blend files.
15:04<Ammler>now*
15:05<Ammler>I am not sure, what license they use, but I assume GPL :-)
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15:07<OwenS>As I said though, If I used GPL, when you took a screenshot, you would have to make available on request all the 3d model files and textures it was built from, and a dump of the entities visible - a pretty difficult job :p
15:07<Ammler>sorry, that is silly
15:07<Ammler>maybe in your country :P
15:07<frosch123>like the CC-BY-ND scenarios?
15:07<planetmaker>OwenS: that is plain bullshit what you're telling
15:08<OwenS>planetmaker: Is it so? a 2d raster is the equivilent of binary code for a 3d scene
15:08<Ammler>OwenS: of course it is, but I liked to say it a bit more kindely
15:08<planetmaker>a 2D raster is a 2D raster is a 2D raster. I drew it pixel by pixel and it's my preferred form.
15:08<planetmaker>now it's your turn
15:09<Ammler>frosch123: yes :-)
15:09<planetmaker>prove the opposite.
15:09<OwenS>A 2D raster is implicitly derived from whatever source it was generated. In this case, likely by your 3D card from a scene
15:09<Ammler>OwenS: and if it would, you have the source.
15:10<Ammler>so why not "actively" support it?
15:10<OwenS>Ammler: What happens if you don't dump the property then; someone asks for it in 3 months time, and it's changed?
15:10<Noldo>OwenS: if you make a pdf with gpl:d pdf maker from odf file, do you have to release the odf too?
15:10<OwenS>Noldo: The output of GPLed software is different from something generated from GPLed content
15:11<Noldo>and the difference from screenshot is what?
15:11<Ammler>hmm, do "someone" need to keep history of the source?
15:11<OwenS>Ammler: Virtual worlds get huge. I don't want to increase that size exponentially
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15:12<planetmaker>Noldo: exactly the argument *someone* fails to see.
15:13<OwenS>Noldo: The difference of what from a screenshot?
15:13<Ammler>OwenS: you don't need to keep the source self
15:13<Ammler>you just need to know, who has the source.
15:13<Ammler>then you can forward source requests :-)
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15:13<OwenS>Ammler: If they;re building on my world, me! (It's as if I'm running the git repository)
15:14<Noldo>OwenS: how is the view on the screen different from an output file
15:15<Ammler>OwenS: that is like we would need to license our openttd save archive
15:15<OwenS>Noldo: Because the output file is generated by a GPLed app from content supplied to it - not from the app. The app has applied logic to input to produce an output. A view of the screen containing a GPL licensed content is derived directly from said content
15:16<planetmaker>Rubidium: using hg. But it's not yet initilized
15:16<planetmaker>e.g. nothing there
15:17<planetmaker>I have a problem with catcodec:
15:17<planetmaker>Aeolus:~/ottd/grfdev/opensfx/sprites ingo$ catcodec -e opensfx.sfo
15:17<planetmaker>terminate called after throwing an instance of 'char const*'
15:17<planetmaker>Abort trap
15:17<planetmaker>taking a clean dir. running catcodec -d opensfx.cat
15:18<planetmaker>and then above command to encode again fails here.
15:18<planetmaker>I'll upload an initial version of the repo in a few moments, though
15:18<Noldo>OwenS: and how is the output file not derived directly from the code that is gpled?
15:18-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
15:19<pavel1269>hello :-)
15:19<pavel1269>have a problem, cant launch clear trunk :-(
15:19<OwenS>Noldo: If I write a file in OpenOffice, how is it derived from OpenOffice?
15:19<OwenS>It's not. OpenOffice paid no part in the creation of the file.
15:20<pavel1269>"Failed to find a sound set. Please acquire a sound set for OpenTTD."
15:20<Noldo>OwenS: so you can write raw odf on your own?
15:20<OwenS>Noldo: If you wanted, yes.
15:20<TrueBrain>OwenS: the license of an output file is identical to the license of the input file if and only if the system managing both does not add any data from itself to it
15:21<TrueBrain>in case of OO this fails (the ODF format clearly adds tons of junks)
15:21<Noldo>OwenS: you can make the screenshot too without the source, if you want
15:21<TrueBrain>therefor the license of OO states that the license of the input file is equal to the license of the output file .. but this is a choice of OO
15:21<TrueBrain>'tools' are funny in their licenses :p
15:22<OwenS>TrueBrain: What OO adds is legally "trivial" and not copyrightable. But if a GPL tool adds it's own source code, then yes, the output falls under the GPL until you excise said source
15:22<TrueBrain>OwenS: well, that is not completely true, but okay, not important :)
15:23<TrueBrain>(an excel sheet can do non-trivial stuff :p)
15:23<TrueBrain>sorry: spreadsheet :p
15:23<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yes, but what Excel stores in the file isn't a significant enough part of Excel :p
15:24<TrueBrain>OwenS: on that not everyone agrees
15:24<TrueBrain>but okay .. I am trying to find a few sues about screenshots
15:24<TrueBrain>they were pretty amusing
15:24<TrueBrain>it came down to: it is said to be fair-use
15:24<TrueBrain>(to make a screenshot of a game and use it for yourself)
15:25<OwenS>TrueBrain: I don't want, as a random example, myself being sued by people for using images of their stuff in promotion :p
15:25<TrueBrain>so making a screenshot of GPL licensed objects won't be suable (in most countries)
15:25<TrueBrain>it is just silly :p
15:26<OwenS>TrueBrain: It's probably not fair use if I'm using a screenshot in advertising material ;-)
15:26<TrueBrain>that are completely different stories
15:26<TrueBrain>as that is commercial gain
15:27-!-Akoz [potatoe@217-151-34.oke1-bras10.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Excess Flood]
15:27<pavel1269>where do i have to add sample.cat, or what do i have to type in config.cfg, or where i can get your sound set to make clear trunk to run? :-/
15:27-!-Akoz [potatoe@217-151-34.oke1-bras10.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #openttd
15:27<TrueBrain>bad Akoz! :p
15:28<Akoz>:p
15:28<Akoz>accident..!
15:28<Akoz>ctrl+v with the wrong content
15:29<TrueBrain>ghehe
15:29<TrueBrain>nasty
15:29<Akoz>poor planetmaker
15:29<Akoz>I hope he didnt autoignore me
15:29<TrueBrain>haha :)
15:29<Akoz>although I would if I was him
15:29<Akoz>so in the language files.. are the seperators spaces or tabs?
15:30<TrueBrain>:
15:30<TrueBrain>(if you would have opened any, you would have seen)
15:31<Akoz>right
15:31*pavel1269 feels ignored
15:31<Akoz>but in coding its tab right?
15:31<TrueBrain>in C the ; is the seperator
15:31<TrueBrain>in Python it is \n
15:31<TrueBrain>pavel1269: I guess nobody knows the answer .. that stuff is all very new
15:32<pavel1269>ahh god, thanks al least for an answer :-)
15:32<Akoz>I ment the spacer
15:32<pavel1269>there are only spaces
15:32<pavel1269>no tabs
15:32<TrueBrain>Akoz: check the wiki, it has the coding style
15:33<Akoz>right
15:33<TrueBrain>pavel1269: really? Then I think I have the wrong source open ...
15:33<Ammler>pavel1269: http://www.openttdcoop.org/sample.cat
15:33<pavel1269>Ammler: i have
15:34<pavel1269>TrueBrain: really? open some language file and see yourselves, only " ", not tabs
15:34<TrueBrain>pavel1269: read his question ;)
15:34-!-LordAzamath [~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]]
15:34<pavel1269>TrueBrain: i know, but i understand what he mean :-)
15:35<TrueBrain>[21:31] <Akoz> but in coding its tab right? <- that was his last question
15:35<andythenorth>GPL: the output of a program is not the same as the program. A screenshot is generally not the program. GPL is pretty clear and easy on this (sorry for bump), was eating dinner).
15:35<TrueBrain>andythenorth: GPL is clear on that? So inside COPYING it states that screenshots is allowed? (as then it would be clear)
15:36<+glx>pavel1269: do you have *.obs files ?
15:36<pavel1269>glx: a lot :-)
15:37<+glx>there should be only 2 (in bin/data)
15:37<andythenorth>I've read nothing specific on GPL about screenshots, but the GPL FAQS themselves are clear and easy reading.
15:37-!-Elton06963 [~Delphi@201008130076.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #openttd
15:37<andythenorth>The program is usually a compiled whole, the thing that is distributed.
15:37<TrueBrain>and remember that the issue was not a GPL program, but GPL objects inside a program
15:37<pavel1269>agg obs, not obj, sorry
15:37<pavel1269>*ahh
15:37<pavel1269>and yes
15:38<TrueBrain>(which is NOT part of the program)
15:38<andythenorth>The source has to be made available for the whole. Data / content is usually *not* part of the whole. Therefore source doesn't need to be made available. But hey, don't rely on me, go read the FSF
15:38<pavel1269>orig_dos.obs/orig_win.obs
15:38<TrueBrain>andythenorth: and the source of the objects? Exactly, that was what the conversation was about :)
15:38<pavel1269>sorry, my problem!
15:38<andythenorth>:)
15:38<pavel1269>glx: i had them, but not coppyed .... they are new?
15:39<andythenorth>If it's a sound file included in a GPL grf, make the source available.
15:39<andythenorth>easy no?
15:39<pavel1269>sorry ...
15:39<andythenorth>CC is crazy talk
15:39<+glx>pavel1269: yes, they are new
15:40<planetmaker>Akoz: I have no idea how to circumvent the global var. And I don't really see the need :-)
15:40<TrueBrain>THREADS!
15:40<andythenorth>TrueBrain: :D
15:40<andythenorth>indeed
15:41<andythenorth>Well I bumped the GPL thing, I'll shut up about it...except to say: fight CC everywhere you can, it's bad for the community. GPL is better.
15:41<Akoz>planetmaker: and putting it in the totally unrelated network_gui file just for convenience is.. fine? :p
15:41<Noldo>planetmaker: global var where!?
15:42<TrueBrain>andythenorth: for code, you are aboslutely right
15:42<TrueBrain>for content, not so much
15:42<planetmaker>Noldo: in the diff from Akoz ...
15:42<TrueBrain>(that, GPL even says himself)
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15:42<OwenS>Heck, for code, the CC folks even say "don't use the CC! It's not designed for it!" :p
15:42<planetmaker>basically storing the name of the person who talked to you last privately
15:43<andythenorth>ok so scenarios? CC. For anything to do with a grf? GPL. What else is there for OpenTTD?
15:43<Akoz>http://paste.openttd.org/191172
15:43<andythenorth>Maps?
15:43<OwenS>andythenorth: Are maps not scenarios?
15:43<andythenorth>heightmap != scenario?
15:43<TrueBrain>heighmaps are funny
15:43<OwenS>I suppose in that case
15:43<TrueBrain>they have a license by their source
15:43<TrueBrain>which is much more strict then most people realise :)
15:44<OwenS>In the case of a heightmap of an area of the world, can someone really claim copyright? :P
15:44<TrueBrain>copyright? Or license of use? :p
15:44<andythenorth>They can claim either / both if it's their original work
15:45<OwenS>TrueBrain: You can only license something you own :p
15:45<SmatZ>[21:43:44] <TrueBrain> they have a license by their source <=== do you mean some metadata in image?
15:45<OwenS>SmatZ: I think he means whoever mapped the terrain
15:46<TrueBrain>SmatZ: don't know about that ... I worked for months with SRTM, but couldn't be arshed to check the license
15:46<TrueBrain>as I knew it was .. strict :p
15:46<TrueBrain>I only know VMAP0 is public domain :p
15:46<SmatZ>SRTM? Shuttle Radar Topography Mission?
15:47<TrueBrain>http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org/
15:47<TrueBrain>one of the most common sources for heightmaps
15:47<SmatZ>http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/ this SRTM is about topology too :)
15:47<SmatZ>*topography :-p
15:48<TrueBrain>they are the same. My site has a nice viewer :p
15:48<SmatZ>ah, nice :)
15:48<andythenorth>SRTM looks like you can use it in derivative works for non-commercial purposes. So probably fine.
15:48<andythenorth>but you can't redistribute the data ;)
15:48<TrueBrain>andythenorth: exactly
15:48<TrueBrain>which is a bit ... hard, I say :p
15:48-!-Elton06963 [~Delphi@201008130076.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:48<TrueBrain>like: I HAVE THIS BRILIANT HEIGHTMAP!
15:49<TrueBrain>but .. I can't show you :p
15:49<andythenorth>But a heightmap based on SRTM would be derivative, not the data itself?
15:49<andythenorth>so you can publish that
15:49<andythenorth>A heightmap being a png or such
15:49<TrueBrain>publish: yes
15:49<TrueBrain>distribute ... dunno :p
15:49<TrueBrain>"CIAT also request reprints of any publications and notification of any redistributing efforts"
15:49<TrueBrain>I guess I have something to tell them :p
15:50<andythenorth>So you can publish and notify :)
15:50<andythenorth>Simples?
15:50<TrueBrain>I think a lot of people on the forums have ...
15:51-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:54<TrueBrain>so used to long compile-times, that I am suprised when my 'make' returns instant
15:55<OwenS>Whoa. Seen the new version of Media Wiki they're betaing on Wikipedia?
15:59<TrueBrain>why oh why does my checksum not detect changes in the content :(
15:59<TrueBrain>even CRC-32 seems to fail :(
16:01<OwenS>In your emulator?
16:01<TrueBrain>yup
16:02<OwenS>Dune 2 unintentionally generating collisions? O_o
16:02<TrueBrain>haha
16:02<TrueBrain>doubtful :)
16:02<SmatZ>hehe
16:02<OwenS>An = instead of == somewhere? :p
16:02<TrueBrain>I try to find a clever way to identify functions
16:02<TrueBrain>without depending on their cs:ip pair
16:02-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
16:02<TrueBrain>but ... I fail :p
16:02<SmatZ>TrueBrain: you can remember file:position as well
16:02<TrueBrain>SmatZ: overlays
16:02<SmatZ>but still it will fail for self modifying code...
16:03<TrueBrain>self-rewriting code
16:03<TrueBrain>:)
16:03<SmatZ>:)
16:03<TrueBrain>I wish it was that simple :p
16:04<OwenS>How do I skin Qt3 apps on KDE4? :p
16:06<SmatZ>TrueBrain: too bad things like this fail http://paste.openttd.org/191173 in modern OSs
16:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17147 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix [FS#3048]: Keep vehicle news and viewports following vehicles, when autoreplacing/renewing them.
16:06<SmatZ>spltting to executable and non-executable pages and stuff
16:07<TrueBrain>too bad? :p :p
16:07<SmatZ>well, for generating code on-the-fly and running it, yes :)
16:07<TrueBrain>http://paste.openttd.org/191174 <- I wonder if my CRC-32 is correct :p
16:07<TrueBrain>SmatZ: fair enough :)
16:07<TrueBrain>now you need to do a bit more work :)
16:10<KenjiE20>hm, looking at line 88 in town.h, I'm pretty sure that should read water not paper
16:11<SmatZ>KenjiE20: it's there to fool some inexperienced players
16:12<KenjiE20>hehe
16:12<SmatZ>TrueBrain: that code looks complex :)
16:12<TrueBrain>just a default CRC-32 .. if I didn't make any mistakes
16:13<SmatZ>that crc32 has some fixed polynomial I suppose
16:13<TrueBrain>0x04 ..
16:13<SmatZ>0x04C11DB7 isn't just a random number ;)
16:13<TrueBrain>CRC-32 by IEEE
16:14<SmatZ>@base 16 10 104C11DB7
16:14<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 4374732215
16:14-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c38fb.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:15*SmatZ doesn't really remember how it should be done (when there isn't 1 bit read in each round, but 8)
16:15<TrueBrain>me neither :p
16:16<TrueBrain>I now added a second checksum (a simple addition one)
16:16<SmatZ>I could find it in my notes, but... there are sure many examples online :)
16:16<TrueBrain>and still it fails :(
16:16<SmatZ>:(
16:16<SmatZ>it has the same checksum?
16:16<TrueBrain>yeah, most examples only use table lookups .. I don't want to do that right now :p
16:16<TrueBrain>well, 2 non-identical functions have :p
16:16<SmatZ>:)
16:17<SmatZ>and is it the same?
16:17<SmatZ>you can store the copy of the function somewhere...
16:17<+glx>try md5 :)
16:17<TrueBrain>glx: yeah, considered it :p
16:17<SmatZ>if it won't kill your app :)
16:17<TrueBrain>SmatZ: it does :p
16:17<SmatZ>:-p
16:17<TrueBrain>as it happens after 100k+ CPU instructions
16:17<OwenS>TrueBrain: Steal Zlib's Adler32? Almost as good as CRC32 and much faster
16:18<SmatZ>I would expect regular sum would be enough to detect it... in most cases
16:18<SmatZ>when the code isn't trying to hide the change
16:18<TrueBrain>that I was thinking too ....
16:18<TrueBrain>an addition + xor should be more than plenty, I considered
16:18<TrueBrain>(hard to make code that gives the same value in such cases)
16:18<SmatZ>but, are you sure the code really changes?
16:19<TrueBrain>nope
16:19<TrueBrain>but if I add 'cs' check, it works, if I remove it, it fails
16:19<TrueBrain>(use 'cs' as unique key)
16:19<OwenS>TrueBrain: Addler32 is 2 additions per byte IIRC
16:19<SmatZ>TrueBrain: interesting, so the behaviour is different when cs changes?
16:19<SmatZ>does it read cs?
16:20<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, normally my cache checks cs:ip:length:crc
16:20<TrueBrain>I want to remove 'cs', because of overlays it happens that different cs is the same code
16:20<TrueBrain>when doing so, the game never starts
16:20<SmatZ>TrueBrain: if you remove the cs and the app reads cs, would it cause problems?
16:21<SmatZ>like, you have cs hardcoded somewhere
16:21<TrueBrain>removing from the hash-key
16:21<TrueBrain>not fromt he emulator :p
16:21<TrueBrain>hmm
16:22-!-Utvik [~autvik@bjo2-1x-dhcp133.studby.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Utvik]
16:22<TrueBrain>you do have one good point .. what if the overlay is relocated
16:22<TrueBrain>(which it is)
16:22<TrueBrain>but that should be detected too
16:23<TrueBrain>overlays sucks!! :)
16:24<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yes. Hence their replacement with pages :p
16:24<TrueBrain>I think I should just take over INT3F and do overlaying myself :p Problem solved :)
16:25<OwenS>I'm more concerned about why your hash is matching :p
16:26<TrueBrain>well, I cna't see if it is the hash that matches, or that it is something else that goes wrong
16:26<TrueBrain>hard to trace :p
16:27<TrueBrain>but okay, yesterday I got the complain that this channel was too little about OpenTTD :p
16:28<OwenS>We'll talk about OpenTTD when theres talk about it to do :p
16:28<+glx>who complained?
16:29<TrueBrain>[12:54] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what anybody reported yesterday
16:29<TrueBrain>[12:54] <Eddi|zuHause> all my memor^Wlogs from yesterday are about old games :p
16:29<TrueBrain>hehehehe :p
16:30<OwenS>Was he not participating? fscking hypocrite =P
16:30<TrueBrain>I like Eddi|zuHause :)
16:31<TrueBrain>oeh, I am going to make my emulator 'resumable' :)
16:31<TrueBrain>hihihihi
16:31<+glx>"savegames" ie snapshots
16:32<+glx>?
16:32<TrueBrain>yup
16:32-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32<TrueBrain>what is faster: fwrite(memory, 1024 * 1024, 1, fp);
16:32<OwenS>TrueBrain: Does this just involve dumping 1MB of RAM to disk? :p
16:32<OwenS>lol yes
16:32<TrueBrain>or fwrite(memory, 1, 1024 * 1024, fp);?
16:33<OwenS>1024*1024, 1 I'd guess
16:33<+glx>1 big block
16:33<OwenS>Why not 1024, 1024? :p
16:33<TrueBrain>OwenS: well, to be exact: because the JIT needs to be attached to the process in order to decompile uncompiled functions, and the normal static version won't have the JIT attached, I need something so when it crashes at yours with the message: found uncompiled version, I can run it here by just attaching the JIT :p
16:33<TrueBrain>what I tried to say: it never made sense to me .. size vs nmemb :(
16:33<OwenS>lol
16:34<OwenS>I think fwrite may do for(i = 0; i < nmemb; ++i) write(fd, size, ptr)
16:35<TrueBrain>I hope it just does: size * nmemb :p
16:35<OwenS>Contractually, it may return a lower number than nmemb, in which case only that many chunks have been written
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16:38<TrueBrain>haha
16:38<TrueBrain>I love this mistake:
16:38<TrueBrain>values[9]
16:38<TrueBrain>values[10]
16:38<TrueBrain>so, I think, not pretty
16:38<TrueBrain>lets do:
16:38<TrueBrain>values[09]
16:38<TrueBrain>slightly ... different meaning :p
16:38<TrueBrain>(invalid btw)
16:39<@Rubidium>yeah, octal is fun!
16:40<_ln>#define O9 9
16:42<Lakie>Why not just pad it with whitespace?
16:43<Lakie>values[ 0]
16:43<TrueBrain>I now did (of course)
16:43<TrueBrain>but my initial solution made me laugh
16:43<TrueBrain>just wanted to share ;)
16:44<Lakie>Heh
16:46-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47<xmakina>JAMI 0.2 is out for people who might be interested
16:48<TrueBrain>xmakina: nice going :) Is it any good?
16:48<Ammler>Rubidium: we could use the sample templates from orudge, where he spoke the number
16:48<xmakina>well it doesn't seem to crash...
16:48<xmakina>and she can turn a profit, eventually
16:48<Ammler>so you hear ingame, when which sound is played.
16:50<TrueBrain>xmakina: so in not too long time, you beat the crap out of AdmiralAI and stuff? :p
16:50<Ammler>xmakina: I like, how you give your ai a gender.
16:51<Ammler>now, at least one female player in openttd :-)
16:51-!-pavel1269 [~quassel@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:51<xmakina>lol
16:52<xmakina>TrueBrain: Maybe in a few more versions...
16:52<xmakina>TrueBrain: Also - I love that NoAI project thing - you can even set versions and build a roadmap
16:53<TrueBrain>:) I am happy you like it :)
16:53<xmakina>seriously - you should advertise it more - maybe make a single post sticky about it listing all its many and awesome features?
16:54<TrueBrain>xmakina: people who are interested will come anyway :)
16:54<TrueBrain>those things go quickly enough :)
16:54<TrueBrain>(mostly as there are not THAT many NoAI authors :)
16:54<xmakina>heh
16:54<xmakina>quite
16:54<Xaroth>TrueBrain: Redmine?
16:55<TrueBrain>yup
16:55<Xaroth>nice
16:55<TrueBrain>yup :p
16:55<Xaroth>OpenDune running? :o
16:55<TrueBrain>starting to :)
16:55<Xaroth>woot
16:56<TrueBrain>now restructuring a bit :)
16:56<@Rubidium>Ammler: huh? What sample template?
16:56<@Rubidium>what number?
17:01-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.74.135] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:01<Ammler>Rubidium: in the sample replacment ordudge made
17:02<@Rubidium>where? I haven't seen it
17:02<Ammler>there you hear sounds like "one", "two"... etc. sounds I guess orudge recorded with his voice.
17:02<@Rubidium>and I've been looking through quite a lot of the sound replacement threads lately
17:02<Ammler>the number you have also in the tickets
17:03<Ammler>Rubidium: the sound replacement which needed a patch
17:06<dihedral>afaik there is only one sound replacement set orudge started a thread for
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17:08<Ammler>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35710
17:08<dihedral>refrase: sound replacement project :-P
17:09<@Rubidium>Ammler: and which of the posts has the numbers?
17:09<welterde>TrueBrain: i just wish there would be support for bzr..
17:10<Ammler>orudge: still around?
17:10<TrueBrain>euh ... make a request at www.theworld.com ?
17:10<Ammler>maybe he didn't post the number sounds.
17:11<@Rubidium>Ammler: because in that first post is... uhm... kinda sample.cat material
17:11<welterde>TrueBrain: any special reason why you don't have support for that on that host?
17:12<TrueBrain>oh, you mean there? Sorry, I Thought you talked in general
17:12<Ammler>I just can remember as I tried that patch, I heard number where there was no real sound :-)
17:12<TrueBrain>well, the same as for any other random VCS: because we took Subversion
17:12<welterde>TrueBrain: i mean noai.openttd.org ;-)
17:12<TrueBrain>technical limitations, preference, and I couldn't be arshed
17:12<TrueBrain>subversion is centralized, perfect for the job
17:12<welterde>actually redmine supports multiple different vcses
17:13<TrueBrain>but as I said to all those others asked this questions: you can have a WC with both svn and bzr/git/hg/cvs/...
17:13<TrueBrain>and everyone knows better
17:13<TrueBrain>but when I ask in detail, nobody can answer me the simplest question related to it
17:13<welterde>or just use my own redmine-instance^^
17:13<Ammler>welterde: but you still need support for the vcs itself, "someone" needs to maintain it.
17:13<TrueBrain>so please ... believe me if I say it is technical not possible in redmine
17:14<welterde>TrueBrain: on your host..
17:14<TrueBrain>in our setup
17:14<TrueBrain>which is exactly what we have
17:14<TrueBrain>and as with everything: if you don't like it, just move along and don't use it
17:14<TrueBrain>the wonderful thing about Open Source world
17:16<welterde>Ammler: well.. nothing $package_manager can't handle imho(if it is at least an vserver)
17:16<TrueBrain>yes, $package_manager indeed always understands when you create a new project in redmine
17:16<TrueBrain>and that it needs to initialize the repos
17:16<TrueBrain>with correct permissions
17:16<TrueBrain>it does all that
17:16<TrueBrain>(and then they wonder why I get sarcastic from time to time :p)
17:17<Ammler>oh, only from time to time? :-P
17:17<TrueBrain>:) Problem with this world; everyone knows better :)
17:17<TrueBrain>everyone assumes you are more stupid then they are :p
17:17<TrueBrain>(well .. I know I do :))
17:18<welterde>TrueBrain: oh.. you mean like that.. i just meant the binary...
17:18<TrueBrain>welterde: well, Ammler meant that, or so I hope anyway ..
17:18<TrueBrain>as I said: please trust us in when we say it is technical not possible
17:18<TrueBrain>there is so much more than you will ever see to openttd.org and its webservices
17:19<welterde>TrueBrain: with bzr you don't have to initialize the repos and fix permissions btw. :P
17:20<TrueBrain>no, we just have to give everyone commit rights
17:20<Xaroth>welterde: I don't think that's the best thing to say :P
17:20<TrueBrain>indeed, sounds like the perfect plan
17:20<Ammler>in the devzone, everyone has access to every repo, everyone can create his repos everyone can start his project
17:20<TrueBrain>(even now, he doesn't want to give up .. keep on trying ... I am in a good mood today :p)
17:20<TrueBrain>okay, I will stop being sarcastic :)
17:20<Xaroth>impossible
17:20<TrueBrain>welterde: we need authentication (permissions)
17:20<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: just make a bzr repository and show him it doesn't work
17:20<TrueBrain>simply because we don't want things to go renegade
17:21<TrueBrain>Ammler: ^^ :p
17:21<Xaroth>but on that note, TrueBrain, pics! :P
17:21<welterde>TrueBrain: i already gave up :P
17:21-!-LaSeandre [~LaSeandre@host86-140-253-237.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-]
17:21<TrueBrain>Xaroth: pics of WHO?
17:21<TrueBrain>Jessica Alba? Yes please :)
17:21<Ammler>well, I see it as experiement ;-)
17:21<TrueBrain>Ammler: I hope it succeeds :)
17:21<Ammler>the openttd community is the lab
17:21<Xaroth>TrueBrain: yes please.. but was more referring to OpenDune :P
17:21<welterde>but i just want to say that "technical not possible" is not quite correct
17:22<TrueBrain>Xaroth: ghehe :)
17:22<@Rubidium>Ammler: with access you mean "root" access?
17:22<TrueBrain>welterde: .......
17:22<TrueBrain>welterde: stop for a moment and ask why I tihnk it is technical not possible, instead of telling me it is
17:22<Xaroth>welterde: in this technical situation, it's not possible.
17:22<Ammler>well, as yorick registered, we installed mercurial-server
17:22<welterde>TrueBrain: so.. why do you think it is technical not possible
17:22<Ammler>but no in use yet.
17:22<TrueBrain>welterde: I don't think; I know. As I worked on it. For a few hours :p
17:23<welterde>on bzr?
17:23<TrueBrain>for any alternative VCS
17:23<welterde>or on any other vcs?
17:23<Ammler>Rubidium: everyone=manager or developer of a project
17:23<TrueBrain>welterde: we need a secure setup. We can't have other people fiddling in others work. As this will mean someone will fuckup, and nobody inside the OpenTTD Developers team has any time to maintain that
17:23<TrueBrain>that give, we have restrictions. Authentication needs to come logic from the Redmine website
17:23<TrueBrain>access needs to be restricted to the project itself
17:23<TrueBrain>creation of repos needs to be automated
17:24<TrueBrain>access to the repos needs to walk over DAV
17:24-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-81-109-185-122.hers.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:24<TrueBrain>with those restrictions in mind, there is no way to make redmine to something beside subversion
17:24<welterde>well.. the last point is quite impossible with bzr afair
17:24<TrueBrain>or, for all we cared, we could have made the default mercurial
17:24<TrueBrain>OH NO! BUT IT WAS TECHNICAL POSSIBLE!
17:24*TrueBrain goes to find a gun
17:24<welterde>TrueBrain: but there is no need to use dav ;-)
17:25<TrueBrain>.....
17:25<TrueBrain>where is that darn gun of mine
17:25<welterde>because you can have authentication even without using http/dav/...
17:25<TrueBrain>really welterde, because you go shout something, make sure you know all the restrictions
17:25<TrueBrain>it is like walking into an Apple store and yelling: A MOUSE CAN HAVE A RIGHT BUTTON!!!
17:25<@Rubidium>welterde: how do you do authentication with bzr without giving people (ssh) access?
17:26<TrueBrain>because = before
17:26<TrueBrain>lol
17:26<Xaroth>Rubidium: TCP over pidgeon
17:26<welterde>Rubidium: you can limit ssh quite a bit actually..
17:26<TrueBrain>Pidgeon RFC!!!!!
17:26<Xaroth>welterde: you GOT to be kidding me
17:26<TrueBrain>welterde: and for SSH access ... do you maybe need a public IP?
17:26<Xaroth>giving random people SSH access?!?
17:26<+glx>TrueBrain: a mouse can have a wheel too :)
17:26<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: ssht... don't tell him!
17:26<Xaroth>only 1 idiot needs to have a less-than-secure password, some bot walks by and messes everything up
17:26<welterde>Xaroth: no problem if they can't do anything outside of /home/bzruser
17:26<TrueBrain>no .... then he maybe has to admit it is tehcnical not possible
17:27<welterde>(and not even login)
17:27<TrueBrain>but sure, keep pushing
17:27<TrueBrain>maybe you make yourself wanted :)
17:27<TrueBrain>oh, wait, there was that sarcastic again
17:27<welterde>TrueBrain: it is possible... just not in the time you have to spare on that :)
17:27<@Rubidium>for what it's worth, OpenTTD is multiplexing IPv4s like a mad man, just to keep the costs down
17:27<TrueBrain>darn ...... I should learn to control that :)
17:27<TrueBrain>welterde: TIME is the constrain?
17:27<TrueBrain>really?
17:27<TrueBrain>so tell me, how to solve DAV?
17:28<welterde>yeah.. it's the only constrain for everything :P
17:28<TrueBrain>how to assign a (non avaialble) public IPv4 to that VPS?
17:28<Xaroth>sanity is a stricter constraint
17:28<TrueBrain>how to make redmine auto-create the VCS?
17:28<TrueBrain>how to automate access via redmine?
17:28<welterde>TrueBrain: that would be quite easy actually
17:28<TrueBrain>which of the 4?
17:28<TrueBrain>redmine can only create 1 (!) type of VCS for projects
17:28<welterde>"how to make redmine auto-create the VCS?"
17:28<TrueBrain>Subversion in our case
17:29<TrueBrain>that is a BIG limitation of Redmines side, but one that is very much there
17:29<welterde>uhmm....
17:29<TrueBrain>now before you go claim things, read their documentation first
17:29<TrueBrain>just to avoid any unneeded flaming from my part :p
17:29<welterde>maybe that has been changed i dunno.. but the version i am using does support it
17:29<TrueBrain>....
17:29<TrueBrain>oh really? Do tell :)
17:29<TrueBrain>this got to be good
17:29<welterde>yes :)
17:30<Xaroth>TrueBrain: go work on OpenDune, just hand this dude the gun so he can shoot himself :P
17:30<TrueBrain>(remember we talk about CREATING, not attaching)
17:30<TrueBrain>Xaroth: yeah ... this is a waste of time, I know :)
17:30<welterde>TrueBrain: you mean by creating, creating of the repo, right?
17:30<TrueBrain>yes
17:30<TrueBrain>svnadmin create
17:30<TrueBrain>hg init
17:30<TrueBrain>git init
17:31<welterde>TrueBrain: i know.. i shouldn't have started with it :/
17:31<Xaroth>then why start
17:31<Xaroth>or better yet
17:31<Xaroth>Why continue?!?
17:31<TrueBrain>http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/2478/entry/trunk/extra/svn/reposman.rb
17:31<TrueBrain>there you go
17:31<TrueBrain>how to make this script create multiple VCSes?
17:31-!-lewymati2 [~lewymati@host-81-190-18-20.torun.mm.pl] has quit []
17:31<TrueBrain>oh wait .. it can't!
17:31<TrueBrain>(darn, sarcasm again)
17:32<TrueBrain>so, lets travel this road back
17:32<@Rubidium>t
17:32<Xaroth>I have a colleague that does the same
17:32<TrueBrain>Redmine can only create 1 type of VCS via an automated process
17:32<TrueBrain>we picked Subversion
17:32<Xaroth>trying to argue for the sake of the arguement
17:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but he's running a custom version!
17:32<welterde>Xaroth: i dunno... i guess you got a point here
17:32<TrueBrain>so welterde, man enough to admit that it is technical not possible (for us)? :)
17:32<welterde>(yet) :)
17:33<TrueBrain>@kick welterde you really deserved this
17:33-!-welterde was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you really deserved this]
17:33-!-welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd
17:33<TrueBrain>@kban welterde 60 you really deserved this
17:33-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] by DorpsGek
17:33-!-welterde was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you really deserved this]
17:33*Xaroth applauds
17:33<Xaroth>... hostmask gandalf.?!?!?
17:33<TrueBrain>damn .. that has to be the longest time I could hold back a kick :)
17:33<Xaroth>he DEFINITELY deserved that
17:34-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] by DorpsGek
17:34<TrueBrain>I btw hate auto-rejoin
17:34<Xaroth>60 seconds? i was hoping 60 hours :/
17:34<TrueBrain>nah
17:34-!-welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd
17:34*TrueBrain hugs welterde
17:34<TrueBrain>now just know that we do investigate things :)
17:35<welterde>ok :)
17:35<welterde>but hey.. maybe i can fix that for you ;)
17:35<TrueBrain>but things aren't always as easy as they are on your home computer ;)
17:35<welterde>TrueBrain: home-vserver you mean
17:35<TrueBrain>well, make a patch for Redmine which allows you to pick which repos it should create
17:35<TrueBrain>would be very useful
17:35<TrueBrain>indeferno knows
17:36-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
17:36<Yexo>good evening
17:36<TrueBrain>hello Yexo!! :)
17:36<planetmaker>good evening Yexo
17:36<Yexo>hi TrueBrain :)
17:36<Yexo>hi planetmaker :)
17:37<Xaroth>hullo Yexo
17:37<welterde>TrueBrain: see? if you wait long enough all problems will solve themselves ;)
17:37<TrueBrain>welterde: still THIS close .. you realise that, right?
17:37*Xaroth waits for it
17:37<welterde>Yexo: i have a few question to you :)
17:38<Yexo>welterde: then just ask it, otherwise I can't answer :)
17:38*TrueBrain gniffels at Yexo :)
17:38<Ammler>btw, is there a good "fork" platform for bazaar like bitbucket or github?
17:38<Xaroth>Yexo: was fun knowing you...
17:38<welterde>Yexo: ok.. one that isn't that important anymore, but anyway..
17:38<welterde>Ammler: yeah launchpad.net
17:38<OwenS>Ammler: GitHub? Ick. Gitorious ftw :P
17:39<Yexo>I feel like I'm missing something
17:39<welterde>Yexo: any reason why there is no coroutine support in noai?
17:39-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-144-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:39<Ammler>OwenS: you know my feelings about git :P
17:39<Yexo>coroutine? as in squirrel generators?
17:39<welterde>no.. as in the threads it uses
17:40<OwenS>Ammler: Why Bzr though? Hg I can understand... But not Bzr...
17:40<welterde>which area actually coroutines
17:40<Ammler>OwenS: because welterde mentioned it...
17:40<Yexo>welterde: do you want to use threads in your AI or do you want OpenTTD to run multiple AIs in different threads?
17:40<welterde>Yexo: i want to use multiple threads in my AI :)
17:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17148 /extra/website/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [Website] -Add: support for base sounds to BaNaNaS.
17:41<Yexo>those aren't supported because the AIMode system doesn't work well with it
17:41<Yexo>it doesn't work well with generators either, but it's a bit late to disable those
17:41<Yexo>anyway, it's easy to emulate threads with generators
17:42<xmakina>generators?
17:42<welterde>yeah.. already do that :)
17:42<Yexo>if you don't need them, please don't use them
17:43<welterde>xmakina: local a=function{...; yield "asdf";}; local b=a();local c=resume b; a=>function; b=>generator; c=>"asdf"
17:43-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:43<welterde>Yexo: "doesn't work well with generators"?
17:44*xmakina doesn't feel that much wiser about the issue
17:44<planetmaker>an initial version of the base sound system is now available for checkout: hg clone http://dev.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/opensfx
17:44<TrueBrain>xmakina: that isn't you :)
17:44<TrueBrain>planetmaker: 'initla version' of what? :p
17:44<welterde>xmakina: the function will stop at the yield and instead of returning "asdf" at the first time it will return an generator object, which you can use to resume the function
17:44<planetmaker>ah... s/system//
17:45<TrueBrain>planetmaker: no, I meant: 'the' base sound
17:45<welterde>xmakina: http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html#d0e1753 <- see here :)
17:45<Yexo>xmakina: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3078
17:45<TrueBrain>will there be only one? What are the ideas of the project?
17:45<planetmaker>TrueBrain: see channel topic :-P
17:45<planetmaker>or rather name ;-)
17:45<TrueBrain>which channel?
17:45<planetmaker>hm... this?
17:45<TrueBrain>(btw, 404)
17:46<TrueBrain>planetmaker: what about it? Sorry, I lost you.
17:46<xmakina>welterde: huh. how interesting
17:46<planetmaker>default = http://dev.openttdcoop.org/hg/opensfx
17:46<planetmaker>^ typo in link, sorry
17:46<planetmaker>TrueBrain: free sounds for OpenTTD
17:46<TrueBrain>where is that in this topic?
17:47<planetmaker>basically collected by Rubi. But now in a repo.
17:47<planetmaker>And yes, I correct myself to s/topic/channel name/
17:47<planetmaker>mind to actually read? ;-)
17:47<TrueBrain>I still don't get it :p
17:47<planetmaker>then don't worry
17:47<welterde>Yexo: so far they work fine for me, but i think i better don't use them in connection with AIMode, hu?
17:47<TrueBrain>#openttd .. how does that answer the question: what are the ideas? :p
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17:48<Yexo>welterde: they can use fine, but as soon as you start using any AIMode inside your generator you're in dangerous waters
17:48<planetmaker>[23:44] <planetmaker> an initial version of the base sound is now available for checkout: ...
17:48<planetmaker>^ TrueBrain
17:48<planetmaker>like a free version. non-proprietary...?
17:48<TrueBrain>planetmaker: either you don't understand a bit I am saying, or I don't understand a bit you are saying :p
17:49<welterde>Yexo: that's what i mean.. any luck finding the cause of that?
17:49<TrueBrain>ah :) So like OpenGFX for the base gfx? :)
17:49<planetmaker>yes
17:49<TrueBrain>that I was asking about :) hihi :)
17:49<Yexo>welterde: yes, I know the reason, but that doesn't say I can fix it
17:49<Yexo>it's working exactly like it's designed
17:49<planetmaker>:-)
17:50<welterde>hmm..
17:50-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:50<planetmaker>so. and now that the existance of the repo is announced here, I'm off to bed :-)
17:50<TrueBrain>night planetmaker :)
17:50<planetmaker>Have a good night folks
17:50<TrueBrain>I never knew there were so many tiny sounds :p
17:50<Yexo>anyway, if you have more questions, please ask them. I'll go to sleep very soon :p
17:50<welterde>oh.. is AITestMode/AIMode an DoCommand?
17:50<Yexo>no
17:51<Yexo>but using AITestMode is only usefull if you do a DoCommand afterwards
17:51<welterde>yeah.. but using AITestMode in an generator(thread) would be useful.. hmmm...
17:52<Yexo>if you don't use it in the generator itself but only in a function called from the generator you should be fine
17:52<welterde>ahh :)
17:52<welterde>will do
17:53<Yexo>OpenTTD code assumes all AIMode objects are destroyed in reverse order then they were created
17:53<Yexo>creating an AIMode object in a generator, then yielding that generator, then removing another AIMode object breaks that assumption
17:54<welterde>wouldn't that mean that fixing coroutines would be easier?
17:54<welterde>because coroutines have their own context, while generators have not
17:54<Yexo>for openttd they have not, the AIMode-stack is per-AI, not per AI thread
17:55<Yexo>that's the reason coroutines are disabled, to prevent problems with that
17:55<welterde>hmm.. yes..
17:56<welterde>you have to put the AIMode in a variable a guess?
17:56<Yexo>yes
17:56<welterde>and setting it to null should have the same effect as returning from the function, right?
17:56<Yexo>otherwise it's destroyed immediatly
17:56<Yexo>yes
17:57<Yexo>"local a = AITestMode(); local b = AIExecMode(); a = null" <- that's an easy way to make openttd assert
17:57<welterde>local a=..AIMode..;...;a=null;yield null; would probably work, while local a=..AIMode..;...;yield;a=null will probably result in desaster
17:57<Yexo>yep
17:58<welterde>have to keep that in mind :)
17:58<welterde>now just to find an clever algorithm to find a big pile of free place in an sub-region of the map
17:58<Yexo>and if it results in too much disaster (ie too much FS#3078 bug reports), I'll make sure to stop the AIs instead of asserting OpenTTD
17:58<Yexo>I might do that anyway, it's just a low priority currently
17:59<Yexo>just like the fact that some AI (no ie which one) selects all tiles on the map, then uses a valuator on that
17:59<Yexo>Still thinking on a way to break that behavior (either crash AI or be able to stop the AI during the valuate), second option is prefered of course
18:00<welterde>oh.. that reminds me of another question regarding AITileList..
18:00<TrueBrain>lol, this kid has more questions then my screen can hold :p
18:00<TrueBrain>hihi
18:00<welterde>addRectangle(tile1, tile2) results in an Count() of 0.. is that intended behaviour?
18:01<welterde>TrueBrain: have a long list here ;-)
18:01<Yexo>welterde: that depends on the tiles :)
18:01<welterde>if i mixed up the order count() => 0?
18:02<TrueBrain>Xaroth: done with restructuring, now I can start making stats files, which can later on be used to staticly compiled :) A more pressing issue starts to show: legal issues :p
18:02<Yexo>existing items won't be removed from the list
18:02<Yexo>if either tile1 or tile2 is invalid, no tiles will be added
18:03<Yexo>if both tiles are valid and it still returns in a count of 0 you should open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org
18:04<Xaroth>:o
18:04<TrueBrain>so did you contact Westwood (or what is it)? :p
18:04<Xaroth>nope
18:05<Xaroth>actually bothered to look em up, but gave up
18:05<welterde>Yexo: hmm.. seems like i messed up somewhere else.. here it works :)
18:05<welterde>*now
18:05<TrueBrain>too bad :)
18:09-!-Pygmalion [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:10<OwenS>Whee; AlterScript's (Currently somewhat messy) code is now in the cloud
18:11<TrueBrain>concratz!
18:11<TrueBrain>and, how is it doing there?
18:11<TrueBrain>downloading Jessica Alba?!
18:11<OwenS>It's chilling with it's friends Qt and Amarok: http://gitorious.org/alterscript :P
18:11<OwenS>I should probably put X11 license headers on all the files :p
18:11<TrueBrain>nice job, in the relative small time :p
18:12<OwenS>TrueBrain: I haven't actually implemented If yet. It's in the AST but I haven't parsed it :p
18:12<TrueBrain>lol
18:12<TrueBrain>so it is useless? :p
18:12<OwenS>Yes :p
18:12<TrueBrain>at leas tI can play Dune2! (after 2 (or 3) months of work :p)
18:12<OwenS>lol
18:13<OwenS>It's quite easy to add features to though =)
18:14<OwenS>brb scim has died on me =(
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18:14<welterde>Yexo: oh.. there is no 0 tile?
18:15<Yexo>there is, but if freeform map edges is on, tile 0 is invalid
18:15<welterde>ahh.. that explains it :)
18:15<Yexo>try to toggle that setting during a game and you'll see why :)
18:16<Xaroth>TrueBrain: and in 2 months first demo of OpenDune :P
18:16<TrueBrain>Xaroth: without the legal shit worked out, never :p
18:17<Xaroth>meh :P
18:17<Xaroth>how did the legal shit got worked out for TTD ?
18:17<welterde>Yexo: any hint on how? (-:
18:17<Xaroth>s/got/get
18:17<Yexo>how to toggle that setting? make sure all tiles at the edges are water
18:18<Yexo>or start a new game with the setting off, then you'll be able to turn it on
18:18<Xaroth>http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/halolz-dot-com-left4dead-houseoftheundead.jpg
18:19<TrueBrain>haha
18:19<TrueBrain>nice
18:20<Ammler>http://bananas.openttd.org/en/baseSound/ <-- little glitch: basegraphics is acitve in the navi bar.
18:21<welterde>Yexo: now they are.. but how do i toogle that option now.. can't seem to find it.. unless you mean i should fill the water up with land, in which case you have to wait a bit..
18:21<Yexo>no, it's somewhere under advanced settings (under construction if I recall correctly)
18:22<welterde>ahhhhhh!
18:22<welterde>yes... now i see why :)
18:23<TrueBrain>Rubidium: [00:20] <Ammler> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/baseSound/ <-- little glitch: basegraphics is acitve in the navi bar.
18:23<TrueBrain>template changes don't require restarts of django
18:23<TrueBrain>(hint: 'section' entry in baseSound.html)
18:29-!-elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17149 /extra/website/bananas/templates/bananas/baseSound.html: [Website] -Fix (r17148): the wrong section was highlighted for the sound replacement.
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18:30<Yexo>good night
18:30<TrueBrain>night Yexo!
18:30-!-Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: bye]
18:32<xmakina>TrueBrain: It's probably nothing, but every now and then over the last few hours noai.openttd.org has been very slow to respond
18:32<TrueBrain>xmakina: yeah ... it happens when too long nobody visit the website :p
18:32<TrueBrain>then it shuts itself down
18:32<xmakina>ah
18:33<welterde>TrueBrain: what do you use to run it?
18:33<TrueBrain>passenger of course
18:34<OwenS>TrueBrain: I thought it was it's own VM? Because if thats the case, why shut it down?
18:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: a) how passenger works
18:34<TrueBrain>b) why waste any resources any longer than needed?
18:35<TrueBrain>noai is't used for hours at a time
18:35<OwenS>a) Not configurable? b) and aren't they dedicated to the VPS anyway?
18:35<TrueBrain>OwenS: nope; why would we?
18:35<TrueBrain>we dedicate resources to any VPS if others might want to use it too, when the VPS isn't?
18:35<TrueBrain>(avoids swapping, I guess :p)
18:36<TrueBrain>and yes, it is configurable, but can't be arshed :p
18:36<OwenS>Heh; I suppose it's just that I'm used to running on Xen which doesn't let you allocate more RAM to your VPS' than you physically have :p
18:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17150 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: when MapGRFStringID() fails to remap, return STR_EMPTY instead of 'random' string
18:36<TrueBrain>we run linux-vserver :p
18:36<TrueBrain>if I ever have the change, I will replace it with ESXi
18:36<TrueBrain>after which reservations are more permanent yes :p
18:37<TrueBrain>SmatZ: sounds like a useful feature ;)
18:37<Xaroth>ESX ftw
18:37<TrueBrain>hmm .. now I need to figure out where a jump to a function comes from ... TRICKY! :)
18:37<SmatZ>TrueBrain: yeah ;)
18:38<TrueBrain>time to play a game of Snipes :)
18:40<Xaroth>lol @ co-pilot
18:40<Xaroth>Integrating 26381 POIs
18:40<Xaroth>... why the HELL would I need so many POIs :(
18:40<SmatZ>because you are very curious?
18:40<TrueBrain>Congratulations --- YOU ACTUALLY WON!!!
18:40<TrueBrain>Play another game? (Y or N)
18:40-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<SmatZ>TrueBrain: I don't know snipes :(
18:41<TrueBrain>SmatZ: you should!
18:41<TrueBrain>best game ever!
18:41<TrueBrain>by Novell!!
18:41<SmatZ>TrueBrain: ahhhh I sure do!
18:41<SmatZ>I just don't know it's called Snipes :)
18:41<TrueBrain>most likely the only game they made :)
18:41<TrueBrain>I didn't know the name for years
18:41<TrueBrain>but I love the game so much :)
18:41<SmatZ>some pre-pre-pacman, right?
18:41<TrueBrain>yes :)
18:41<TrueBrain>a maze, with holes where enemies come from
18:41<TrueBrain>at level z-9
18:41<TrueBrain>you can't touch walls
18:42<SmatZ>interesting
18:42<TrueBrain>shoting bounces of walls
18:42<TrueBrain>and one of the only games which runs FLAWLESS :p
18:43<SmatZ>http://paste.openttd.org/191176 for some reason, it's not called Snipes in my "old games" CD
18:43<TrueBrain>a true gem, that direcotry :)
18:43<TrueBrain>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipes
18:43<OwenS>TrueBrain: Interestingly, I just read a benchmark of Apache under Linux under [Xen Paravirtualized | Xen Hardware Virtualized | ESXi | MS Hyper-V] and Xen smoked everything =/
18:43<SmatZ>http://www.jcsoft.cz/fantasy/arcadev.htm hehe :)
18:43<TrueBrain>http://www.novell.com/communities/node/5111/snipes
18:43-!-nicfer [~Usuario@168.226.104.242] has joined #openttd
18:44<TrueBrain>OwenS: in my personal benchmark, it depends VERY much on your file-structure
18:44*glx likes the "network" communication :)
18:44<TrueBrain>it was made for that
18:44<TrueBrain>just I never used it for it
18:44-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
18:44<welterde>OwenS: link?
18:45<TrueBrain>there are 2 versions of Snipes .. one VERY ugly, and one pretty :p
18:45-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!]
18:45<TrueBrain>wikipedia shows the ugly, novell shows the pretty
18:45<OwenS>welterde: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/blog/tree/2009-04-25.some-virtualization-benchmarks.html though I'm trying to find a more extensive one
18:45<OwenS>ESXi FreeBSD is an oddity there
18:46<TrueBrain>OwenS: it all depends on the IO drivers
18:46<TrueBrain>and comparing Apache Windows with Aapche Linux is stupid :p
18:46<TrueBrain>(not depending on the virtualization :p)
18:46<SmatZ>TrueBrain: shock! "emerge snipes" actually did something 8-)
18:46<OwenS>TrueBrain: I'm ignoring the Windows results :p
18:46<TrueBrain>SmatZ: there is a linux port :)
18:47<welterde>not that i even consider using anything else than xen on my new server :P
18:47<OwenS>Someone should compare VMs on multiple hosts: Linux-Xen, FreeBSD-Xen, Solaris-Xen, ESXi, etc
18:47<TrueBrain>OwenS: but there is really no test than your own :)
18:47-!-xmakina [~xmakina@87.113.19.239.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit []
18:47<TrueBrain>from what I read so far, is that ESXi and FreeBSD work very well together
18:47<TrueBrain>(based on Ruby on Rails results)
18:47<OwenS>TrueBrain: That benchmark shows the same
18:48<TrueBrain>I believe OpenBSD did slightly better
18:48<welterde>hmmm... ESXi only for 32bit?
18:48<TrueBrain>lol, no
18:48<OwenS>I imagine Solaris' IO drivers would probably cause it to rock as a host
18:48<welterde>ah.. 4.0 is 64bit
18:48<TrueBrain>but okay, running the IO over iSCSI give the best performance
18:48<TrueBrain>then all VMs approached eachother mostly
18:48-!-Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-12-232-52.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:48<TrueBrain>welterde: the bits of the hypervisor is not really important
18:48<welterde>would be wasting ~6GB with 32bit ;-)
18:49<TrueBrain>ESXi can do 64bit VMs for a LONG time
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18:49<TrueBrain>SmatZ: the linux version is not really readable :s
18:49<welterde>TrueBrain: as long as it can address the memory..
18:49<SmatZ>yeah :(
18:49<TrueBrain>welterde: there are nice tricks for that, but yeah, fair enough
18:49<Xaroth>ESX 3.0 can do 64bit
18:49-!-elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #openttd
18:50<Xaroth>so ESXi 4 can easily do 64bit
18:50<TrueBrain>SmatZ: and I can't start :(
18:50<OwenS>i386 32-bit can address 32GB of memory. Just not all at once
18:50<SmatZ>TrueBrain: F3 :)
18:50<OwenS>Sorry; 64GB :p
18:50<TrueBrain>runs more fluent then my emu :p
18:51<TrueBrain>but damn ... what level did they put me in ..
18:51<TrueBrain>P8 .. lol!
18:51<TrueBrain>SmatZ: 150 enemies!! :i
18:51<TrueBrain>SmatZ: diagonal shots bounce btw
18:51<SmatZ>OwenS: certainly not 386 ;) Rather PentiumPRO and newer (or so)
18:51<SmatZ>TrueBrain: 8-)
18:51<welterde>OwenS: well.. i want use all of my 8GB at once ;)
18:51<OwenS>SmatZ: OK. I don't think people will be running many VMs on i386s :p
18:52<SmatZ>but even so, kernel developers discourage from using PAE
18:52<OwenS>Because it's a pain in the ass under 32-bit ;-)
18:52<TrueBrain>lets leave PAE for the mac, okay? :p
18:52<OwenS>Actually... Athlon64s/Opterons can address 2^48bits in Protected Mode under PAE :p
18:53<OwenS>(Or 2^56 with newer models)
18:53<+glx>only vmware is able to run 64bit guests on my CPU :)
18:54<SmatZ>TrueBrain: oh, difficulty level Z is crazy :-D
18:54<TrueBrain>loveit :)
18:54<TrueBrain>SmatZ: Z9 ;)
18:54<welterde>glx: what cpu?
18:54<+glx>athlon 64 X2
18:54<SmatZ>TrueBrain: yeah, just started that :)
18:55<TrueBrain>the letter is the rule-set, the number the amount of enemies :p
18:55<welterde>glx: uhmm..
18:55<+glx>it's a pre-AM2
18:56<TrueBrain>either way .. this has been yet another goooood day :)
18:56<TrueBrain>my emu collects stats ... now I need to figure out how to find where a jump comes from, and I can make static binaries :)
18:57<welterde>glx: and why doesn't xen work on it? (not to talk about qemu *scnr*)
18:57<TrueBrain>that will make Xaroth so happy :p
18:57<OwenS>True, Xen works fine on older Athlon 64s :p Just can't run non-paravirtualized guests
18:57-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C943.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:57<+glx>welterde: I tried only virtual box, virtualpc and vmware
18:57<TrueBrain>good night all!!
18:57<OwenS>night
18:58<welterde>ah ok :)
18:58<+glx>and my CPU doesn't have AMD-V so only vmware is able to run 64bits guests
18:58<Xaroth>TrueBrain: that makes me quite happy :)
18:58<welterde>without patching them
19:02<SmatZ>good night, TrueBrain
19:03<welterde>does any of the AIs have an algorithm to search for free space in the map?
19:03<Akoz>is bugs.openttd.org having trouble?
19:04<SmatZ>it's just slow for some reason
19:04<Akoz>I get "500 Internal Server Error" whenever I try to submit something
19:05<@Rubidium>wonderfull :(
19:05<@Rubidium>why can't nobody create a webserver that *just* works without massive memory usage or the likes?
19:06<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: ^ 500 errors on bug reporting and wiki editing
19:06<welterde>Rubidium: already tried lighttpd&nginx?
19:06<@Rubidium>welterde: yes
19:07<@Rubidium>lighttpd 'leaks' like hell in some circumstances, taking down half of the services on the server
19:07<@Rubidium>and for what it's worth, lighttpd&nginx are in use *NOW*
19:07<welterde>ah :)
19:07<@Rubidium>nginx as proxy, lighttpd as simple-webpage-server
19:08<welterde>nginx can be used as a simple-webpage-server too
19:08<@Rubidium>so lighttpd doesn't do the thing where it 'leaks' like hell
19:08<@Rubidium>welterde: well, OpenTTD's config is *far* from simple
19:08<Akoz>any eta on when that site might be back up?
19:08<welterde>yeah.. i know.. mine isn't simple either ;)
19:09<welterde>that's why i am using both too
19:09<@Rubidium>Akoz: about 30 minutes after TrueBrain starts fixing it? Which is probably like 1 hour after he gets awake
19:09<welterde>but lighttpd on front and nginx for file serving, because mod_alias doesn't like to play with mod_proxy :/
19:09<Akoz>aww
19:09<@Rubidium>given that he just went to bed, that's going to take a while
19:10<@Rubidium>welterde: I really hope you're not proxying dav with lighty
19:10<Akoz>sounds like I should do the same then and try again tomorrow
19:10<welterde>nah.. no dav anywhere here
19:10<@Rubidium>Akoz: what's the bug you wanted to report anyway?
19:10<welterde>but it used to leak memory too
19:10<Akoz>I found more money hacks
19:10<welterde>but can't remember how i fixed it
19:10<SmatZ>Akoz: no! :(
19:11<Akoz>nah.. I didnt.. I just wanted to post my imba patch :p
19:11<Akoz>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44707
19:11<SmatZ>hehe
19:11<SmatZ>I noticed it
19:11<welterde>Rubidium: what version are you running?
19:11<OwenS>of?
19:11<@Rubidium>can't nmap tell you that?
19:11<Akoz>like it?
19:12<OwenS>Rubidium: nmap just normally tells you OS versiion. And thats a herustic
19:12<welterde>Rubidium: there i get the version of nginx :)
19:12<welterde>(with curl -I .. actually)
19:12<SmatZ>Akoz: haven't checked the code yet... but the idea might be useful :)
19:13<Akoz>every time I get a private tell on the servers I keep wishing for the feature :p
19:13<@Rubidium>lighty uses some trunk version
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19:27<SmatZ>Akoz:
19:27<SmatZ>+ NetworkClientInfo *ci = NetworkFindClientInfoFromClientID((ClientID)this->dest);
19:27<SmatZ>can be const
19:27<SmatZ>when a client disconnects while query is open, it crashes
19:27<SmatZ>when client has name longer than ~4 characters, it's truncated
19:27<SmatZ>about name_reply.patch
19:28<SmatZ>(+ patch merges with fuzz 1 for some reason, even though I am using r17150)
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19:29<SmatZ>hello fonsinchen, I spent some time with your patch, but still it will take more time :)
19:29<fonsinchen>hi
19:30<fonsinchen>if I can help you with something, I will.
19:30<SmatZ>actually, I had some ideas, but I didn't make any notes...
19:30<SmatZ>maybe about using enum instead of bunch of static const ints
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19:33<fonsinchen>could be done. In fact some of the dimensions are even common to all windows ...
19:37<SmatZ>and one little feature request :)
19:37<SmatZ>when player clicks the +/- buttons on the main toolbar, they are drawn as "pressed" for a while
19:37<SmatZ>I think it would be nice to have in minimap too
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19:37<SmatZ>if it's not too much of work/code
19:37<SmatZ>it can be added later
19:38<SmatZ>(in fact, it already has ~35 kB iirc)
19:38<oskari89>"[02:04] <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17140 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Change: allow higher sample rate and higher quality samples. Based on work by orudge."
19:38<oskari89>Is this what i think it is?
19:38<SmatZ>no
19:38<SmatZ>yes
19:38<SmatZ>maybe
19:39<SmatZ>choose one
19:39<KenjiE20>can you repeat the question
19:39<welterde>%8ball is it what he thinks it is?
19:39<welterde>:/
19:39<SmatZ>:)
19:39<@Rubidium>there is a chance that there is a chance that the answer you are getting is the answer you are hoping for
19:39<oskari89>Can do better sounds at .grf's than the nominal 11025 Hz 8-bit mono PCM?
19:40<oskari89>r17140 onwards?
19:40<SmatZ>:)
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19:41<oskari89>Nice work if it is possible.
19:42<oskari89>Rubidium knows? :=
19:42<oskari89>*:)
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19:44<oskari89>If it would allow 44100 Hz 16-bit stereo/mono samples, it would be nice :)
19:45<@Rubidium>I didn't change anything at the NewGRF side, so I'm not sure *at all*
19:45<@Rubidium>best way to find out is to test it
19:45<oskari89>Hmm.
19:45-!-reldred1 [~Richard_E@wirele5.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:46<oskari89>If it's possible, it definately is a good thing.
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19:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r17151 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3104] (r13974): A train entering a PBS section through a block signal could cause a train crash if another reservation ending at a safe tile was already present in the section.
19:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r17152 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix: A stuck train could free the reservation of another train if it was reversed or did crash.
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19:57<fonsinchen>I'll have a look at the +/- buttons
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20:56<Zuu>Is it only me or is there currently a problem with binaries.openttd.org? Guess I have to be patient and wait.
20:57<@Rubidium>seems to work for me
21:00<+glx>http://binaries.openttd.org/ is blank, but http://binaries.openttd.org/custom and http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies are ok for me
21:01<Markk>Is the openttd-servers kinda unstable for the moment?
21:01<@Rubidium>glx: guess the index update script failed; reran it and it works again
21:02<@Rubidium>Markk: what do you mean by that?
21:03<Markk>Rubidium: tried to DL 0.7.2, but it really slow
21:03<Zuu>Viewing the pages work for me, but downloading don't work. It first gets nothing for quite a while and then a few bytes and then stops downloading resulting in a small 15-16 kB file.
21:03<Zuu>downloading zip-files etc.
21:03<Markk>Same here
21:03<Markk>Sourseforge has the files though
21:03<+glx>but http://binaries.openttd.org/ != http://binaries.openttd.org/index.html :)
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21:04<@Rubidium>don't see any reason why downloading wouldn't work
21:04<Markk>It's working, but it's really slow
21:05<Markk>Around 2-3kB/s
21:05<+glx>hmm unless firefox cache fails again
21:05<Markk>It's working from other sites
21:06<Zuu>Markk, but SF only got stable releases right?
21:06<Markk>Prolly
21:07<@Rubidium>right... fixed
21:07<@Rubidium>or so I hope
21:08<Zuu>Yep, works from here
21:08<Zuu>Thank you Rubidium
21:08<Markk>Rubidium: yes
21:08<Markk>Works better :)
21:08<Markk>Much better
21:09<Zuu>Now I will be able to test your last work on sound sets :-)
21:10<@Rubidium>Akoz: maybe flyspray works again too
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21:18<Zuu>Rubidium: Not sure if there is any thing in particular to test with your last work with sound sets. But at least I can confirm that the opensfx-nightly.tar works, and I did rename my sample.cat to _sample.cat before I started OpenTTD.
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21:22<@Rubidium>yup, there's not much to test beyond: hey, I've got different sounds and it isn't whining about a missing sample.cat
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21:25<Zuu>Yea, its good work from your side. I have no idea about how much work was required, but with what you did I guess it is quite straight forward to get the sound replacement done. It "only" need "someone" to make the missing sounds. ;-)
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 11 00:00:49 2009