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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-13

---Logopened Thu Aug 13 00:00:06 2009
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00:27<wLk`>Need trojan?
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01:34-!-mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
01:34-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@] by Rubidium
01:34-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@] by Rubidium
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01:45-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@] by Rubidium
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04:32<pavel1269>good morning :-)
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04:48<SmatZ>hello pavel1269
04:51<fonsinchen>hi smatz
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04:56<fonsinchen>Are those 2 pixels spacing at the left and right border of each window defined somewhere? I'm looking at window_gui.h and there are lots of things defined in WidgetDrawDistances but none of them fits just right.
04:59<Eddi|zuHause>probably you should talk to Alberth
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05:19<dihedral>Rubidium, ./configure line 58
05:19<dihedral>return the exit code from rm?
05:21<@Rubidium>that's written by TB
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06:18<Xaroth>TrueBrain: Any luck yet? or they giving you the silent treatment
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06:28<Eddi|zuHause>cdemu is awfully slow...
06:30<SmatZ>hello fonsinchen :)
06:31<SmatZ>I don't know, ask Alberth :)
06:31<SmatZ>but maybe someone else knows too
06:32<@Rubidium>it might be that the spacing is something the window does itself (only speculating though)
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06:49<fonsinchen>no, you define the spacing (or rather padding) in the widgets declaration. For example:
06:49<fonsinchen>NWidget(WWT_INSET, COLOUR_BROWN, SM_WIDGET_MAP), SetMinimalSize(346, 140), SetResize(1, 1), SetPadding(2, 2, 2, 2), EndContainer(),
06:49<fonsinchen>This is not nice ...
06:50<Noldo>those Set* functions seem interesting
06:52<fonsinchen>oh, but it seems the smallmap has an extra padding ...
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06:52<fonsinchen>as for example the station view window doesn't define a padding there.
06:58<TrueBrain>Rubidium: funny enough, dihedral bought your comment and directed it immediatly to me :)
06:58<TrueBrain>I should remember that reply ;)
07:02<TrueBrain>Xaroth: I don't think EA is that fast :p
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07:11<Eddi|zuHause>gah, i should not do too many internet installations simultaneously...
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>(meaning: two.)
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07:21*Wikie pings Xaroth.
07:22<TrueBrain>Xaroth: HIDE HIDE HIDE
07:22<TrueBrain>who said that was funny?
07:22<Wikie>TrueBrain, didn't you said you quit OTTD?
07:23<Wikie>like, 2 or more years ago?
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>like, 5 times already :p
07:23<TrueBrain>I press the Exit Game button a lot, yes
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>that's the problem with addictions, there is a high chance to fall back :p
07:24<OwenS>I've heard a guy say that the best way to get his project moving again when everythings going slow is to ragequit. Everyone miraculously starts working much harder :-P
07:27<SmatZ> is anyone fixing that?
07:27<TrueBrain>clearly: you!
07:27<TrueBrain>dihedral would be very grateful :)
07:28<Wikie>Why did you have to make your own pastebin? xD
07:28<TrueBrain>did he really asked that?
07:28<TrueBrain>or am I seeing things?
07:28<Wikie>yes I did
07:29*Wikie yells that you can't select the highlighted text without the line numbers.
07:30-!-Wikie was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't yell in this channel; it is not polite]
07:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17163 /trunk/configure: -Fix (r7961): don't return exit value of rm
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07:32<Wikie>nobody is serious with /me >.>
07:33<@Rubidium>nobody is serious.
07:33<TrueBrain>hi, my name is nobody
07:34<SmatZ>TrueBrain: there are many patches "nobody is going to implement"
07:34<TrueBrain>DOH! :(
07:34<@Rubidium>so... how is cargodest going?
07:34<TrueBrain>what did I told you a minute ago? :p
07:35<@Rubidium>I should go do some shopping?
07:35<TrueBrain>please do some shopping for me
07:37<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> hi, my name is nobody <- i like terrence hill ;)
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08:07<fonsinchen>those buttons in the main viewport and the smallmap are all 22 pixels in both directions. Is there a reason why you haven't defined that in some central place?
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08:12<TrueBrain>because you didn't do that yet? :)
08:13<@Rubidium>something with dried grapes going nuts
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08:14-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:16<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: is bread and water enough?
08:16<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yup
08:16<@Rubidium>then come and fetch it ;)
08:17*TrueBrain runs to Rubidium
08:17<TrueBrain>almost 7 hours of running
08:17<TrueBrain>but who is complaining
08:17<TrueBrain>7? I guess even more ..
08:18<dihedral>7 would be way too fast :-P
08:19<@Rubidium>183 km
08:19<TrueBrain>38 hours of normal walking
08:19<TrueBrain>so ... 20 hours of non-stop running :p
08:19<@Rubidium>marathon takes 2 hours
08:19<@Rubidium>@calc 183/42*2
08:19<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8.71428571429
08:20<TrueBrain>9 hours? Lol :p
08:20<TrueBrain>k :)
08:20<TrueBrain>it is a pretty route to walk
08:20<@Rubidium>Groene Hart :)
08:21<@Rubidium>9 hours is quite optimistic though
08:21*OwenS thinks TrueBrain running here would be more fun. Since he would either have to swim or cheat and take public transport across the channel :P
08:21<Xaroth>He can run to calais, then keep running on the boat while it crosses
08:21<Xaroth>technically not cheating
08:22<TrueBrain>I can also run in the tunnel
08:22<OwenS>Xaroth: Is if the boat moves faster than he can run
08:22<TrueBrain>the maintance tunnel is big enough
08:22<OwenS>TrueBrain: If they let you in ;-)
08:22<@Rubidium>@calc 183/42.195*(2 + 4/60)
08:22<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8.96314729233
08:22<OwenS>Also, air pressures quite uncomfortable in the maintainance tunnel
08:22<TrueBrain>OwenS: you should I had to cheat or swim
08:22<Xaroth>OwenS: boats go faster than 6kmph :P
08:22<TrueBrain>clearly, there are other ways :p
08:22<@Rubidium>you'd be running just about the world record marathon for the whole 183 km
08:23<TrueBrain>so .. see you soon! :p
08:25<@Rubidium>you'd run the marathon in 2h04:30(.59)
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: you need a special license to steer a boat that goes faster than 5km/h
08:26<TrueBrain>not in international waters :)
08:27<OwenS>Is there any international waters in the channel? :p
08:27<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: How about the ferry between calais and dover :P
08:27<TrueBrain>were we talking about the channel only? :p
08:27<OwenS>Well I thought you'd be crossing there :p
08:28<TrueBrain>you assume so much :) And that all to just call me a cheater
08:28<TrueBrain>I am offended!
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes! it should be way easier to call TrueBrain a cheater!
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>come on, you enjoy that! :)
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have a good news: i found the cable salad that used to be the wireing for the old railway setup!
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>now i can build a DC and an AC circuit
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>(DC is for driving, AC is for controling the equipment)
08:32<TrueBrain>that is indeed very good news :)
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>(equipment = switches, signals)
08:34<@Rubidium>no 25 kV for the overhead wires?
08:34<OwenS>Salad? We tend to say Spaghetti
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it's "Kabelsalat" over here...
08:35<SmatZ>hehehe :)
08:36*Rubidium envisions two dogs eating wire
08:38<fonsinchen>Smatz, I have made those zoom buttons visibly depress when clicked and I have enumified some constants.
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08:40<@Rubidium>oh noes... the Viking's going to kill us... :)
08:40<SmatZ>fonsinchen: great :)
08:40<Wikie>wut viking?
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: two dogs?
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>"Wikie der Wikinger"
08:41<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: :)
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>that was a looong time ago
08:42<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I made that joke yesterday too :p
08:42<@Rubidium>not that the viking is going to kill us!
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: ah, yes, i know that one... not the first association i'd get :p
08:43<TrueBrain>the reference, sigh .. :p
08:43<Wikie>Rubidium, ahh. My nick isn't related to that.
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08:44<Eddi|zuHause>but "Wikie the Mad Assassin" doesn't sound that much better either...
08:45<@Rubidium>"Wikie the desolate and mad assassin"
08:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17164 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Fix: crash when clicking on the spacer in the build airport GUI
09:02<Xaroth>Rubidium: You give him too much credit :P
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09:40<+glx>Ammler: where can I get ottdcoop pack 7.3 ? (as ottdcoop wiki is dead)
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09:45<Xaroth>glx: there's a 'backup' wiki iirc
09:46<planetmaker>and the svn server is on another machine, too
09:47<Xaroth>it speaketh :o
09:47<Xaroth>o/ planetmaker
09:47<planetmaker>salut :-)
09:47<+glx>doesn't help for the packs as the links point to broken wiki :)
09:48<+glx>ok svn works :)
10:00<welshdragon>where can i find out what DorpsGek is?
10:00<TrueBrain>in the stars
10:00<@DorpsGek>or in a book
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should just ask him? :p
10:01<welshdragon>DorpsGek: do you use scripts?
10:01<@DorpsGek>welshdragon: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
10:01<welshdragon>i am registered
10:01<Sacro>he's a supybot
10:01<@DorpsGek>Also can I add that your question is relative vague?
10:02<welshdragon>DorpsGek: do you use irssi scripts?
10:02<@DorpsGek>welshdragon: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
10:02<@DorpsGek>Please continue this conversation via a PM
10:02<welshdragon>i'll just get errors
10:03-!-welshdragon was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [yes]
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10:03<welshdragon>Rubidium: stop that
10:04<+glx>who said it was Rubidium ?
10:04<@Rubidium>glx: huh?
10:05<TrueBrain>Rubidium: lol :)
10:05<welshdragon>as only ops can abuse DorpsGek like that :P
10:05-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by DorpsGek
10:05<welshdragon>planetmaker: ?
10:06-!-mode/#openttd [-o planetmaker] by DorpsGek
10:06<xmakina>welshdragon: do a whois on DropsGek :P
10:06<welshdragon>username: TrueBrain
10:07<@DorpsGek>xmakina: and?
10:08<xmakina>DropsGek: so?
10:08<+glx>xmakina: doesn't mean he's the only one able to command it
10:08<@Rubidium>oh god... are you playing with that stupid bot again?
10:08<TrueBrain>in fact .. nothing means anything .. such a harsh world
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10:09<welshdragon>TrueBrain: i like the translation of DorpsGek: Village Idiot :P
10:09*Rubidium wonders what he's missing; must be a lot
10:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: a good laugh, that is all :)
10:09<@Rubidium>but... my ignore list doesn't list 'laugh' :(
10:10<@Rubidium>stupid IRC client
10:10<@Rubidium>and for a good laugh I usually read some BOFH
10:11<@petern>or refactor bjarni's code
10:11<welshdragon>so, i can't find out what DorpsGek is :(
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10:11<TrueBrain>welshdragon: that is most likely more related to your lack of asking than to anything else
10:11<@petern>didn't sacro answer?
10:12<welshdragon>TrueBrain: how does DorpsGek work?
10:12<TrueBrain>welshdragon: not so well
10:12<welshdragon>is it a bunch of scripts, or a server based bot?
10:12<TrueBrain>server based bot?
10:12<TrueBrain>and isn't a bot also a bunch of scripts?
10:13<welshdragon>and isn't a bot also a bunch of scripts? < well, yes, but which ones, and what irc client does it use?
10:13<TrueBrain>have you read what Sacro said, or did you just choise to ignore him?
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10:14<welshdragon>ah, a supybot
10:14<@petern>he might be wrong of course
10:14<TrueBrain>there is always that chance ..
10:15<xmakina>and, tbh, i thought a supybot was just a mis-spell of spybot and he was trying to be funny
10:15<TrueBrain>xmakina: one search-engine query later and you would have known
10:15<xmakina>indeed - but then i don't usually search engine misspelt jokes
10:16<TrueBrain>hmm .. python3 requires a bytestream for send(), but nowhere I can find how to create such stream from a string :p
10:16<@petern>y did da chckn x da rd?
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>english only.
10:17<welshdragon>2 get 2 da uvver side?
10:18<@petern>it didn't, it was too busy writing an sms and got run over
10:22<TrueBrain>either way, welshdragon, why would you want to know what DorpsGek is made of?
10:22<welshdragon>as i'd like a DorpsGek type bot for a few of my channels
10:22<TrueBrain>so pick any bot out there
10:22<TrueBrain>there are plenty
10:23<@petern>write your own
10:23<@petern>you might learn something
10:23<welshdragon>'never do it again"
10:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17165 /trunk/docs/ (obg_format.txt obs_format.txt): -Update: tweak obs/obg format description slightly
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10:40<xmakina>it's a shame that Roelmb chap is a total douche - the project he's crashing into the ground sounds kinda interesting
10:41<xmakina>i like the scale of the whole thing and the way it'll be all player managed
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10:43<Xaroth>xmakina: I think I missed something so I have absolutely no clue what yer on about :P
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10:44<xmakina>but then he went and fagged everything up over in:
10:45<PeterT>who did?
10:47<PeterT>yeah, i know him
10:47<PeterT>hes from
10:47<PeterT>and someone asked him to patch IS and cargodest
10:47<PeterT>so he does the oppposite and asks someone to do it for him
10:48<xmakina>as i said - cool idea for a project but total numpty at the helm
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10:51*Xaroth shrugs
10:51<Xaroth>He's doing it all wrong
10:52<SmatZ>Yexo: it's unfinished
10:52<SmatZ>Roelmb: finish it then
10:52<SmatZ>what a funny man :)
10:53<xmakina>he made me lol :)
10:53<xmakina>but at him, not with him
10:53<PeterT>you make me lol
10:54<@Rubidium>it is that moving topics in phpbb is such a hassle, otherwise I might've moved it to another forum
10:54<@Rubidium>annoying entity
10:55<PeterT>its a hassle?
10:55<PeterT>when i was a mod its easy
10:55<PeterT>click moderator control panal
10:55<PeterT>moderate forum
10:55<PeterT>search for the damn topic
10:55<PeterT>move -> garbage
10:56<@Rubidium>like, where's the "move to spam bin and don't ask me whether I'm sure, just do it"-button?
10:59<PeterT>is it possible to join a server with win palleted grfs, while carrying dos - palleted ones
11:00<PeterT>i thought i read somewhere that it isnt
11:01<Ammler>Rubidium: could someone use the base extra GRFID to detect which base graphics are loaded?
11:01<+glx>well every client must use the same newgrf
11:01<@Rubidium>Ammler: no
11:02<@Rubidium>and neither are we going to support that
11:02<Ammler>desyncy :-)
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11:04<Ammler>hmm, would it make sense to use same ID as the openttd.grf?
11:05<@Rubidium>got one based on the palette
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11:05<PeterT>where can i download the individual graphics of opengfx?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: that used to be problematic in the past when using newgrfs, but now you can use the windows newgrfs and switch palettes
11:06<PeterT>so i was correct
11:06<Ammler>PeterT: read the readme
11:06<PeterT>i read that in older versions it would cause desyncs
11:07<@Rubidium>Ammler: but ... reading readmes is for the people who got nothing better to do than annoy others with their already answered questions
11:07<Ammler>nobody cares about old versions.
11:08<Ammler>hmm, maybe we could make youtube move, who someone is reading the readme.
11:08<PeterT>the readme has 5 sections,
11:08<PeterT>about, license
11:08<PeterT>installing, reporting bugs, credits
11:09<Ammler>the license should tell you where/how you get the source
11:09<PeterT>OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0.
11:09<PeterT>For more information, see the file 'COPYING'.
11:10<PeterT>im guessing i open 'COPYING' with text ed?
11:10<TrueBrain>of course reading a random README indeed is what Ammler suggested :)
11:11<PeterT>this is the readme of OpenGFX
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i always read the readme of windows media player when i want to know stuff about age of empires
11:14<+glx>Ammler: I suggest you use a GRFID starting with 0xFF for opengfx_extra
11:17*xmakina facepalms
11:18<xmakina>get this: on the megaindustrytycoon forums I tell the rolemb fellow: "you have some sound ideas" to which he replied "we never thought off implenting sound"
11:19<PeterT>i have to show you a hillarious topic
11:19<PeterT>the devs probably dont even remember this one
11:21<PeterT>look at thi
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure what you are trying to tell us.
11:23<PeterT>its funny
11:24<@Rubidium>that he has no live?
11:24<@Rubidium>or life?
11:24<TrueBrain>that he is not a funny person?
11:24<PeterT>look at what dalestan said
11:24<PeterT>sorry for highlight
11:25<PeterT>never mind, he isnt here
11:25*petern ponders doing something fun
11:25<@petern>like... i dunno, watching paint dry
11:26<TrueBrain>now that _is_ funny :)
11:26*planetmaker silently falls asleep
11:26<planetmaker>too much fun and laughter, I guess
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i seem to have lost my flash plugin...
11:26<planetmaker>as long as it's not your flesh plug in :-P
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>someone help me search for it?
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11:27<Dreamxtreme>HI all
11:27<xmakina>oh hai
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>i have difficulties imagining a "flesh plug" getting lost...
11:27<Dreamxtreme>how do i put a map in downloadable content thing
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>except you are a woman
11:27<planetmaker>hehe :-P I don't want to imagine it in detail.
11:27<xmakina>put it in the downloaded_content (or something like that) folder
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>or you want to be
11:28<@Rubidium>xmakina: that's not quite what he's asking for
11:28<xmakina>oh you mean bananas?
11:28<@Rubidium>Dreamxtreme: heightmap (.png) or scenario (.scn) go to
11:28<@Rubidium>you've got to make an account and use the "manager" thingy
11:28<Dreamxtreme>ok thanks
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11:43<OwenS>"Uncanceled Echo: 2.7 dB Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm" Interesting. I would if it wasn't going away on Monday :p
11:44<@Rubidium>OwenS: I see no reason why they can't fix that before then :)
11:44<OwenS>Thats an issue my end :p
11:45<OwenS>And I'm inclined to believe it may be the alarm or the fact that the router is upstairs along ~2.5m of unshielded phone cable along side some power cables :p
11:46<TrueBrain>remind me to break into your whatever on Monday
11:46<TrueBrain>as I have some room it seems :p
11:47<TrueBrain>the irony of what you say: you are told to check your alarm, but you don't as you go away on Monday
11:47<TrueBrain>like you are told your frontdoor doesn't close, but you don't fix it, as you go away
11:47<TrueBrain>understand? No? Too bad.
11:48<OwenS>It means check the alarm's phone connection has an ADSL filter on it :p
11:48<OwenS>And I don't go away on Monday - the ADSL does :p
11:48<TrueBrain>fair enough
11:48-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
11:49<OwenS>Though it can't be the alarm as ours isn't phone connected :p
11:49<OwenS>Which is probably a good thing with the propensity of furry creatures to set it off
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>you have trouble with tribbles?
11:51<OwenS>Hehe, but no, cats :p
11:51<TrueBrain>alarm not phone connected .. good thing as cats can set it off?
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>if cats set off your alarms, you have the wrong alarm set up
11:52<TrueBrain>and it has little to do with phone-connected or not ..
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11:54<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: They rarely do so now. But if they manage to push a door open? ...
11:55-!-fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>if your doors are open, what do you need an alarm for?
11:57<TrueBrain>maybe he considers his cats the alarm
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12:06<thd>some german speaking people?
12:07<TrueBrain>this is a english only channel, so why not give it a shot in english?
12:07<Sacro>zomg germans *hides*
12:07<Westie>because English is too hard
12:08<thd>because my problem is difficult and my english is terrible :)
12:08<TrueBrain>you are doing fine so far
12:09<@Belugas>hint : one word at a time. slowly but surely
12:10<@Belugas>or go to the german forums...
12:10<thd>ok, I will try it. I have a understanding problem with the signals. If I use one station for two trains with the same route, it works perfekt, but if the route is differtent and I use 4 trains and two stations it doesn't work
12:10<thd>(it takes a little bit to write) :-)
12:11<thd>where can I post some screens?
12:11<TrueBrain>on the forums is mostly the response .. but any image upload thingy will do :p
12:12<Westie>yes, base64 the screenshot
12:12<Westie>and stick it on pastebin!
12:12<thd>thanks, one minute :)
12:12<TrueBrain>shall we try to help this person, instead of giving insanly stupid suggestions?
12:12<Westie>yeah, use something like imageshack, uploadffs, etc
12:12<TrueBrain>with all those line numbers the base64 will be lost forever :p
12:13<Westie>TrueBrain, look below the paste, there's a form w/o any line numbers :3
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>there's a german forum, btw
12:13*Sacro hunts for the orange book
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>man. #kde is a horribly unresponsive channel...
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>(on freenode)
12:14<@Belugas>wicked wicked time
12:15*Belugas goes back in hibernation
12:16<thd>here you can see what is working
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm... something is screwed up... kaffeine does not show videos anymore unless it's in full screen...
12:16<thd>two trains for each station on the right
12:17<thd>but they can only use one stage of the station
12:18<thd>now i want to mix it, so that they can change the stages of the station. But den they don't finde the right way back
12:18<thd>do you have any ideas?
12:18-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:18<TrueBrain>maglev is one of the worst rail-track, as you can't always see which pieces are built
12:18<TrueBrain>but can you also give an image of where you connected them? (how you think it should be done)
12:19-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
12:20<thd>oh, so I can rebuild it with the normal rail if you want.
12:20<thd>if it looks better
12:20<TrueBrain>just show us first what you want to do :)
12:22<planetmaker>there's no need to re-build. Just use convert tracks.
12:22<thd>ok, one moment please :)
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12:29<thd>ok, I've converted and this is, what I want but i doesn't work. here is the link
12:29<TrueBrain>I think you need to read up on how signals work
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12:29<TrueBrain>there is now a train on the top left tracks, which of course make all the signals you have turn to read
12:30<thd>hm, I've read this. is there any more documentation?
12:31<thd>oh, ok, I see I've forgotten two signals on the screenshot, but if I put it in, it doesn't work anyway
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12:31<TrueBrain>your setup is asking for deadlocks, yes
12:31<TrueBrain>you will need more advanced signals. You will need to read about them in order to use them.
12:32<planetmaker>a way better solution would be to have pre-signaled X in front of each station
12:32<TrueBrain>well, I guess with 4 trains it would run :)
12:32<planetmaker>and one-way tracks to and from
12:32<PeterT>or pbs
12:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:32<PeterT>how new are you thd?
12:32<TrueBrain>but yes, PBS would make your life much easier
12:32<planetmaker>too easy :-P
12:32<TrueBrain>PeterT: are you asking for his age? :s
12:33<PeterT>new to openttd?
12:33-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
12:33<thd>PeterT, not realy I play it over 2 years, but only for fun, but now I want to use the signals more than normal :)
12:34<PeterT>eddi zuhause's link is pretty good
12:34<thd> there I put two more signals
12:34<keoz>thd : put four more signal on the straight line, to limite the conjunction to a little block
12:35<thd>Eddi|zuHause, thanks for the link I will read it.
12:35<TrueBrain>thd: that shot works, for 4 trains
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>especially the bit about the path signals in openttd
12:35<planetmaker>wow. Two years...
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>they are much easier to handle (imho)
12:35<PeterT>instead of having 1 lane for each triain (deadlocks!), you should have 1 lane going to the destination, then 1 lane coming from the destination
12:35<thd>TrueBrain, but it doesn't the trains lost there right route from time to time
12:37<TrueBrain>I see no reason why not, if there isn't a piece of rail missing. Either way, the link of Eddi|zuHause explains a few things you might find useful.
12:37<thd>PeterT, thats right, that's my old way, but now I want to use two ore more destinations, because of the speedimprofment for the trains
12:37<PeterT>should i show you? or do you understand?
12:37<planetmaker>thd, well. But PeterT's suggestion is still correct.
12:38<planetmaker>it is actually the only way to build a huge network.
12:38<PeterT>type this into the chat "/join #openttdcoop"
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12:39*planetmaker is also out-of-cheese :-(
12:39*planetmaker has better error handling, though :-P
12:40<PeterT>best station to use, thd, is called ro-ro, which stands for roll in, roll out
12:42<thd>petern, what do you mean? Sorry, but I don't understand this. This screenshot shows, why it doen't work: Do you see the train in the middle?
12:43<PeterT>you have "allow 90 degree turns" on, thats why
12:43<PeterT>i am making a screen shot now, just wait
12:43<thd>thanks :-)
12:44<TrueBrain>thd: CTRL+S makes a screenshot too
12:45<TrueBrain>thd: wasn't that train going to the depot, and that you cut the line to it off?
12:45<planetmaker>thd: mind the difference between T and n in the nicknames ;-)
12:46<PeterT>petern, he wrote your name instead of mine
12:46<thd>no, I cut the way to the depot, because it make more trouble and whitout its easyer to explain
12:47<thd>oh, sorry
12:47<thd>I've just presst tab once :)
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12:50<PeterT>your lucky im doing all this work to teach you roro ;0
12:50<thd>thank you verry much! :)
12:52<PeterT>welcome, just do me a favor and keep learning
12:53<thd>ok, one question, is it right, in your case it is not importet which train comes in which station? In my case it is importet not to mix the trains of "saalwald west" and "salwald transfer"
12:54<thd>as you can see, two of them are "oil trains" and two are "people trains"
12:56<PeterT>just make sure of this, you understand my screenie
12:57<thd>hm, I'm not quite shure if I've explaint it corrctly If put a screenshot of the real game:
12:57<planetmaker>thd, the trains have orders. they only go to the stations they're ordered to go to - unless you really screw up tracks and/or signaling.
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12:59<thd>ok, then I will rebuild this example
12:59<planetmaker>the screeny you just post is... not showing an ingenious solution.
12:59<thd>to understand :)
13:00<planetmaker>(and doesn't tell much as both ends of the tracks are "undefined" - e.g. we don't know what follows
13:00<thd>no, that is the working one. but now i will mix the 3 tunnels (at the end there is the station)
13:00<planetmaker>btw: use Ctrl+S in order to make an ingame screenshot.
13:02<thd>planetmaker, ok :)
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13:05<PeterT>they are stored at /OpenTTD
13:05<PeterT>shared directory
13:06<PeterT>i dont know what it is for linux
13:07<keoz>yes, sorry
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13:11<PeterT>is there a way of altering where the shared directory is?
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13:13<dihedral>find / -type f -name "openttd.cfg"
13:14<dihedral>or use ./openttd -d 9
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13:17<thd>PeterT, many thanks for your help. Now I have en example. (and a german docu) :)
13:18-!-thd [] has left #openttd [Verlassend]
13:18<PeterT>good bye
13:18<PeterT>dihedral, were you answering my question?
13:18<Ammler>[19:11] <PeterT> is there a way of altering where the shared directory is? <--why should you want that?
13:19<PeterT>will the reason change the answer?
13:19<KenjiE20>reason might provide an answer
13:19<Ammler>now the answer is "read the readme"
13:20<PeterT>because, i have alot of things at Documents, and its getting loaded
13:20<OwenS>Well, if you were using a Unix machine it would be trivial :p
13:20<Ammler>and you don't want those loaded?
13:20<KenjiE20>well, that's the idea of documents
13:20<PeterT>its just alot
13:21<KenjiE20>its YOUR job to figure what you need there and what not
13:21<Ammler>my openttd needs around 20 secs to load
13:21<+glx>Ammler: you have too many grfs ;)
13:22<Ammler>well, maybe less, but it feels like ;-)
13:22<OwenS>For me about 4. Perhaps reduced by the fact I have a RAID array
13:22-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:22<OwenS>I mean... I can't imagine Ammler has that many more GRFs than I :p
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13:23<Ammler>maybe the 32bpp tars
13:23<+glx>that too
13:24<Ammler>will they loaded, also if I don't enable the blitter?
13:24<+glx>all tars are scanned
13:25<Ammler>I might also have redundancy :-)
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13:42<PeterT>thanks kenjiE20
13:42-!-z-MaTRiX [] has joined #openttd
13:42<KenjiE20>well you wanted a !quit
13:43<PeterT>quit the game! kenji
13:43<PeterT>thats why i added !
13:43<KenjiE20>be careful what you wish for
13:44<PeterT>next time when i !quit, kick me from the game
13:44<PeterT>not irc
13:44<Xaroth>that was just funny
13:45<KenjiE20>to be fair, I did both
13:45<PeterT>how kind of you
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17166 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 29 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by ww9980
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by Kwokfu
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 146 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 10 changes by prof
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13:47<Wolf01>gah.. WolframAlpha doesn't know what I mean with "remember position of lost objects"
13:48<planetmaker>PeterT, just don't use !quit either :-)
13:48-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
13:48<planetmaker>we don't like people "try" our bot's or server's kill commands.
13:50-!-Lisby [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:50<planetmaker>especially with a history of doing so...
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14:03<Yexo>good evening
14:03<Wolf01>evening Yexo
14:05<TrueBrain>howdie Yexo :)
14:05<Yexo>hi TrueBrain :)
14:05<Yexo>how are you today?
14:05<TrueBrain>good good :)
14:06<Yexo>fine :)
14:06<Yexo>only 1 day left of my summer job :)
14:06<TrueBrain>time for celebration?
14:06<Yexo>tomorrow, yes :)
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14:29<trr>Where do I download opponents from?
14:29-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
14:29<xmakina>in OpenTTD
14:29<xmakina>click Check Online Content
14:29<trr>inside the game?
14:29<TrueBrain>in the game, press Download Content or what is it called
14:29<trr>oh ok thanks
14:30<trr>doesn't let me download
14:30<trr>do I need to go to the URL?
14:30<trr>oh nm
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15:02-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
15:03<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:03<SmatZ>hello Nite_Owl
15:03<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
15:03<TrueBrain>hello SmatZ
15:03<TrueBrain>hello Nite_Owl
15:04<Nite_Owl>Hello TrueBrain
15:04<SmatZ>hello TrueBrain
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15:24<PeterT>is cin.get(); used in Openttd coding?
15:24-!-Hirundo [] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//]
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15:24<TrueBrain>the questions get more and more amuzing
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15:25<PeterT>sorry truebrain
15:25*Rubidium is so happy he misses said questions
15:26<@Rubidium>no need to worry about the stupidity of them
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15:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: but you miss the laugh in it :)
15:26-!-Ammler is now known as Guest9
15:26<TrueBrain>PeterT: if you want to know, search for it in the code; seems obvious, not?
15:27<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you ARE aware that Windows' search in text files 'feature' doesn't work AT all
15:27<Xaroth>Rubidium: so? it'd be a challenge :)
15:27<PeterT>is it possible to search through .cpp?
15:27<Xaroth>PeterT: It's plaintext...
15:27<Xaroth>open it up in notepad, wordpad or whateverpad
15:27<PeterT>with VC++
15:28<Xaroth>or vc++
15:28<KenjiE20>or if you want to be sagriligous windows -> search inside
15:28<KenjiE20>(yes I know that's spelt wrong)
15:29<Alberth>or convert to Word files first, then search :p
15:29<Xaroth>Alberth: Heathen.
15:29<PeterT>but its not possible to search through all at once with vc++
15:29<Yexo>PeterT: yes, that's possible
15:29<Alberth>PeterT: no idea, never use the stuff
15:30<PeterT>how do i open all of the .cpp at once, then search em?
15:30-!-Guest9 is now known as Ammler
15:30<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the lack of his computer should not effect his lack of searching
15:30<Yexo>open the search box ,and there is a nice little dropdown
15:30<Yexo>you don't have to open them all
15:30<+glx>Alberth: word is illegal in the US :)
15:30<Yexo>or use the ctrl+shift+f shortcut
15:31<PeterT>thanks yexo
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15:31<TrueBrain>glx: not something to be all to happy about .. as most applications should not be sold by that same ruling :(
15:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if you've searched hundreds of times and it never found what you were looking for a quite powerful precedent has been set that next searching will result in nothing
15:32-!-Hirundo is now known as Swallow
15:32<+glx>it's just a proof that software patents are silly
15:32-!-Swallow is now known as Hirundo
15:32<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so? He never tried, so that argument is (not yet) valid for him :p
15:32<TrueBrain>glx: VERY true
15:32<@Rubidium>as a the bad result it's questionable whether it should be called lazy if you know it's not going to find it
15:33<TrueBrain>Rubidium: it keeps him busy :p
15:33<PeterT>i've already made my own program that says "hello world!" then gives you the answer to 15+17
15:34<@Rubidium>glx: it's just proof that MS hasn't bought/bribed enough companies ;)
15:37<Ammler>German translators, what is the German word for "Steak"
15:38<PeterT>your from switzerland, aren't you?
15:38<PeterT>dont you speak german?
15:38-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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15:40<PeterT>nope, openttd doesnt use cin.get(); in any .cpp files
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15:41<TrueBrain>so there you have your answer :)
15:42<PeterT>cin.get(); really wouldnt be useful in a game program, would it?
15:43<TrueBrain>in a graphical application it would be one of the most silliest things to have
15:44<Nite_Owl>according to the online translators "steak" is "steak"
15:44-!-tdev [] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator:]
15:45<Ammler>Nite_Owl: that is why asked, there seems to be no translation
15:45*Rubidium wonders why openttdcoop did go underground ;)
15:46<Ammler>it is a bit mirrored:
15:46<PeterT>truebrain, yes i figured that out now
15:46<PeterT>why doesnt this code work? int x;
15:46<PeterT> int y;
15:46<PeterT> int x=10;
15:46<PeterT> int y= 12+x;
15:46<PeterT> cout>> x + y
15:46<Ammler>we wait for dns
15:46<@Rubidium>with all hard links to
15:46<TrueBrain>I think yuo have mistaken us for #c or whatever
15:47<Ammler>Rubidium: that is the meaning of "bit" ;-)
15:47<Ammler>well, the wiki seems working well
15:47-!-fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
15:47<PeterT>i dont have permission to access / on this server?
15:47<PeterT>for ottdcoop
15:47<Ammler>we banned you from there
15:48<@Rubidium>Ammler: the usually steel part of a bridle inserted in the mouth of a horse ?
15:48<@petern>cout >> x + y ?
15:49<Ammler>Rubidium: ?
15:49<@Rubidium>as one of my teachers would say: "it isn't documented so the compiler doesn't understand it"
15:49<@Rubidium>Ammler: s/t/w/ ;)
15:49<R0b0t1>Methinks reading from standard out would cause problems.
15:51<Alberth>it is surprising how long it takes before you find that problem :p
15:51<PeterT>ammler, you can ban people from openttdcoop?
15:52<Ammler>well, it seems to work with you.
15:52<PeterT>petern, i figured out the problem
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15:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17167 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't resize the 'base grf status' text part in the game options window when there is no base graphics set that misses files.
15:54<LordAzamath>which file contains the detailed performance rating GUI?
15:55<@Rubidium>the one with the graphs I think
15:55<LordAzamath>okey.. where are graphs :D
15:55<LordAzamath>been searching for a while
15:55<@Rubidium>make an educated guess in which file the guis of the graphs would be put ;)
15:55<LordAzamath>having near zero knowledge of c++ doesn't help though :D
15:56<@petern>nobody is born with c++ knowledge
15:56<LordAzamath>Rubidium was tho
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15:59<@Rubidium>born with C++ knowledge? You must be mistaking me with some hypothetical other entity
16:01<Ammler>LordAzamath: better: , isn't?
16:02<PeterT>what OS do you use ammler?
16:02-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02<LordAzamath>What's different there? :P
16:02<Ammler>PeterT: KDE
16:03<PeterT>is that free?
16:03<LordAzamath>KDE is Desktop Environment, not OS
16:03<LordAzamath>i thinks
16:03-!-PeterT [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:03<Ammler>but PeterT was interested in the window, I assumed.
16:03-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
16:04<LordAzamath>Assuming you can change the themes, you would have had to supply the theme you're using :D
16:04<PeterT>so KDE isnt an OS, its something i could apply right on top of windows?
16:04<LordAzamath>on top of Linux
16:04<KenjiE20>technically yes
16:04<KenjiE20>but it crashes lots on win
16:04<PeterT>oh, that forget it
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>you can install KDE on windows, but it is not very stable
16:05<LordAzamath>didn't know
16:05<PeterT>im not gonna get linux unless i get a faster computer
16:05<Ammler>ttdpatch needs around double the time to start
16:05<@Rubidium>is it more stable than explorer though?
16:05<KenjiE20>linux runs on 486's man
16:05<PeterT>what C++ enviorment do devs use?
16:05<OwenS>Unless you get a faster computer? Wha? Linux is in general much faster than Windows
16:05<keoz>PeterT : emacs
16:05<LordAzamath>especially faster than vista :P
16:05<PeterT>i want to run both
16:05<Alberth>gvim + g++
16:06<KenjiE20>nano / kate
16:06<fonsinchen>there is also eclipse
16:06<PeterT>which is better emacs or gvim + g++
16:06<LordAzamath>but Ammler, was it just a screenshot of the letters being coded or did you change anything too?
16:06<+glx>all needs g++
16:06<andythenorth>run away run away run away
16:06<keoz>PeterT : that's all the question
16:06<fonsinchen>or kdevelop
16:06<Alberth>PeterT: opinions differ :)
16:06<keoz>A lot.
16:06<OwenS>glx: They could use LLVM-G++, LLVM-CLang, SunCC, TinyCC or IntelCC instead :p
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16:07<PeterT>my ttdpatch wont work
16:07<+glx>use openttd
16:07<KenjiE20>heh I remember when I first got patch
16:07<Ammler>LordAzamath: foobar added those, I guess, he used your draft without changes
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>then you are certainly in the right place here, PeterT
16:08<KenjiE20>the truck kept dyingon the intro screen
16:08<LordAzamath>yeh.. hmm
16:08<LordAzamath>it seems O needs tweaking
16:08<LordAzamath>it has lighter highlight on both sides in top-right corner
16:08<Ammler>something in my patch conifg is wrong, there is no monorail
16:09<LordAzamath>I think it was called that
16:09<LordAzamath>don't remember
16:09<LordAzamath>haven't touched ttdp in ages
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16:10<PeterT>can a variable in C++ hold numbers like 3.14^4?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>no. there are only variables that can hold text.
16:10<Tefad>symbolically? not if it is a numerical type like double float int...
16:10<Tefad>and ^ isn't the exponent operator
16:11<TrueBrain>how is 3.14^4 a NUMBER?
16:11<TrueBrain>it is a mathemetical operation
16:11<OwenS>TrueBrain: Actually it's a bitwise operation :p
16:11<TrueBrain>OwenS: haha, fair enough :)
16:11<TrueBrain>I was thinking in his world .. even there it didn't make sense :p
16:12<Tefad>you can store 97.21171216 to a float or double
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>how is a bitwise operation not mathematical?
16:12<TrueBrain>@calc pow(3.14,4)
16:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 97.21171216
16:12<TrueBrain>nice Tefad ;)
16:12<OwenS>@calc xor(3.14, 4)
16:12<@DorpsGek>OwenS: Error: 'xor' is not a defined function.
16:12<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: logical operation is more common used :p
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>it's not an _arithmetical_ operation
16:12<Tefad>binary logic for the win
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>but that does not make it less mathematical
16:12<PeterT>@cal xor?
16:12<Tefad>void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, int*): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed.
16:12<PeterT>@calc pow?
16:12<Tefad>how the hell does this happen
16:12<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
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16:13<OwenS>@calc 3.14^4
16:13<@DorpsGek>OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
16:13<OwenS>Whats BC's xor oprtator/function? :p
16:13<Tefad>@calc log(-1)/sqrt(-1)
16:13<Ammler>LordAzamath: that is something else.
16:13<@DorpsGek>Tefad: 3.14159265359
16:13*Tefad wins
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16:14<LordAzamath>well it merges maglev and monorail iirc
16:14<LordAzamath>but I'm not sure
16:15<TrueBrain>@calc a(4)
16:15<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: 'a' is not a defined function.
16:15<TrueBrain>@calc 4*a()
16:15<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: 'a' is not a defined function.
16:15<TrueBrain>bah, I forgot ..
16:15<Tefad>it's not using bc
16:15<Ammler>but issue was, it replaced monorail with erail
16:15<Tefad>if it is, i'd like to know what version... imaginary numbers are interesting
16:16<TrueBrain>why can't I remember these things :(
16:17<PeterT>damn, char is used alot
16:17<keoz>what is openttdcoop ?
16:18<LordAzamath>gaming community
16:18<LordAzamath>who play cooperative games
16:18<PeterT>i think this is a good tutorial for me "C++ Tutorial - Absolute n00b spoonfeed"
16:18<TrueBrain>night all
16:18<LordAzamath>Ammler, what's openttdcoop :P
16:18<PeterT>night TB
16:18<Alberth>TrueBrain: good night
16:18<Ammler>ask petern ;-)
16:19<Ammler>he is a fan of us :-)
16:19*KenjiE20 resists sparta joke
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16:19<PeterT>petern, or petert?
16:19<Ammler>oh, indeed, you too :-)
16:19<TrueBrain>@kban PeterT 3600 lets avoid that confusion for a while
16:19-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
16:19-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [lets avoid that confusion for a while]
16:19<LordAzamath>peeter, peeter, termomeeter
16:19<Nite_Owl>later TrueBrain
16:20<TrueBrain>as a good night gift to you all :)
16:20<LordAzamath>thanks :D
16:20*KenjiE20 hands TrueBrain a beer
16:20<frosch123>[22:14] <Tefad> void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, int*): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed <- last time it was pbs messing up with gradual loading or so
16:20<Tefad>frosch123: sounds right..
16:21<Tefad>this is with r-lastnight
16:21<Tefad>not sure i'd be able to reproduce it
16:21<frosch123>that's bad
16:22<SmatZ>hmm how big would be core dump for OTTD? I guess several tens of megabytes :(
16:22<OwenS>Depends on the game :p
16:22<Tefad>some of these ottdcoop games.. whew
16:22<OwenS>The game the other week with 1000 trains? :p
16:23<@Rubidium>might it be michi's pbs stuff of a few days ago?
16:24<Tefad>RVs are quite fun at times.. stop selection within a station is still kind of braindead though.
16:24<@Rubidium>hmm, unlikely; it's caught in MarkTrainAsStuck
16:25<Tefad>i guess i could play without queuing indefinitely or whatever the option is called
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16:33*dihedral wonders if that would highlight :-P
16:33-!-R0b0t1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<SmatZ>now that wasn't nice :)
16:34<Tefad>.... i could iterate once more with s/St/F
16:34<dihedral>yes it was
16:34<dihedral>"screw you that was funny"
16:34*LordAzamath highlights dihedral
16:34<dihedral>what Tefad was not nice
16:34*SmatZ lowdarks LordAzamath
16:34<dihedral>but perhaps he likes that
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16:38<Tefad>dihedral: eehehehehe.
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17:03<LordAzamath>Does anyone have savegames/screenshots of toyland headquarters all levels
17:04-!-BaronChaos [] has joined #openttd
17:04<Yexo>no idea if it works, but if you have savegames in another climate, does the climate change cheat change the headquarter graphics?
17:04<LordAzamath>dunno :D
17:04<LordAzamath>but nvm
17:05<LordAzamath>I'm constructing them from trgtr.pcx atm
17:05<LordAzamath>so nvm
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17:15<pavel1269>gn folks
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17:16<fonsinchen>I don't know if there is a way to create that situation with trunk, but when both a transfer and a final delivery are carried out in one unloading session, the payment indicator is wrong.
17:17<fonsinchen>I have a patch fixing that. Is that considered interesting?
17:18<SmatZ>behaviour of 0.7.2 and trunk wrt. unloading should be the same
17:18<@Rubidium>you can't do transfer and final delivery at the same time
17:19<SmatZ>but I don't understand your point
17:19-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
17:20<fonsinchen>with cargodist it is possible to transfer some goods and deliver others at the same time.
17:20<fonsinchen>Then the whole sum is shown as profit, though some of it is transfer
17:20<SmatZ>looks like cargodist bug :-p
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17:20<+glx>last time I checked cargodist was not in trunk ;)
17:21<fonsinchen>OK, I understand. Not interesting then ...
17:22<fonsinchen>no, that's OK. I'm not expecting to get cargodist into trunk anytime soon.
17:22<fonsinchen>I'm just trying to get things into trunk that are interesting for all of us.
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: afair, cargodest modified the animation to show both income and transfer simultaneously
17:23<fonsinchen>I have a patch that does the same
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17:24<fonsinchen>The question was more like: should I create a bug report and a forum thread and answer all stupid questions associated with that or is it unnecessary
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>imho, the income animation should show the actual money earned (i.e. the sum of all transfers) for the final delivery, and transfer the partial income of the last leg
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>and transfer skipped if both values are equal
17:26<fonsinchen>Ah, no. I won't change the meaning of income and transfer. I just want them both displayed as usual.
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just saying that the cargodest way was not optimal
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>also a non-optimal part of cargodest was the transfer credit calculation. when the destination is known, the transfer credit can be better estimated, to prevent the last leg of a transfer appear as a loss
17:29<fonsinchen>All this, however, is a trunk bug. ;) Cargod[ei]st just amplifies the problem.
17:31<fonsinchen>and with cargodist the final destination isn't known at any station in between.
17:31<fonsinchen>so, the estimation problem doesn't get much easier.
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17:36<Eddi|zuHause>i have not used cargodist yet. do you not decide a destination on creating a cargopacket?
17:38<fonsinchen>no, I have a flow mapping at each station. When a cargo packet arrives at a station it is assigned to the most undersupplied flow for its origin.
17:39<fonsinchen>This makes it much easier to map the result of the MCF solver to packet routing.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>so on creating a cargopacket you say "just go in this general direction, we'll see about that later"?
17:41<fonsinchen>on creating a cargo packet I set its source station and then I have a look at the flows at the station it is created
17:42<fonsinchen>for each flow there is a "planned" and a "sent" number
17:42<fonsinchen>the flow with the greatest difference is selected and the packet is sent that way
17:42<fonsinchen>then the "sent" value of that flow is increased accordingly
17:43<fonsinchen>a flow only shows the next hop. It may branch there.
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>one problem i had with cargodest was that the pathfinder could not differentiate between stations where the packet must switch vehicles and stations where it could stay in the vehicle. so when a packet went from A to E with a tram 1: A-B-C-D-E, and tram 2 went F-B-D-G, it would not stay in the tram 1, but leave tram 1 at B, get into tram 2 going B-D, leave there, and enter tram 1 again
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>do you have a solution for this?
17:50<Brianetta>I believe that, technically, all the cargo gets off the vehicle at every stop, and looks for the best route. If the best route is onthe vehicle it just got off, it gets back on.
17:50<Brianetta>Behaving like that, of course, there's no real solution.
17:50<fonsinchen>yes, I have a solution
17:51<fonsinchen>the next hop is determined the moment the cargo arrives at the station. If next_hop == vehicle_next_hop the cargo stays on board
17:51<fonsinchen>The only problem are nondeterministic orders, but I don't think it's necessary to spell out all those cases now.
17:51<fonsinchen>or is it?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, that is not what i meant...
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17:53<fonsinchen>so to say it short: int your case with A-B-C-D-E the cargo wouldn't leave the tram.
17:53<fonsinchen>with cargodist.
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>because the cargodest-pathfinder considers only stops, not routes, the cargopacket thinks the shortest route is A-B [via tram 1], B-D [via tram 2], D-E [via tram 1]
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>while the actual fastest route is A-B-C-D-E [via tram 1]
17:53<fonsinchen>now I get it
17:54<fonsinchen>I misread
17:54<fonsinchen>But cargodist does load balancing
17:54<Brianetta>load balancing solves a different problem
17:54<fonsinchen>so it will measure both the ABCDE and the ABDE routes and assign planned flow to them.
17:54<Brianetta>ABDE shouldn't even be a route
17:55<Chris_Booth>cant you get the cargo to try and find its destination the the orger list
17:55<fonsinchen>it is: tram 1: AB tram 2: BD, tram 1: DE
17:55<Chris_Booth>if it is in teh orderlist stay on the vehcile?
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>ABDE should be a route, but the pathfinder should heavily penalise leaving the vehicle
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17:55<Brianetta>Chris_Booth: That would be too sensible.
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: we tried that, but it opened different problems
17:55<Chris_Booth>why not just use a switch statement?
17:56<Chris_Booth>if destion is in list stay on train
17:56<Chris_Booth>if not look for shortest route
17:56<Chris_Booth>case switching
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>because you don't know at which train you WILL be, it creates suboptimal routes
17:56<Chris_Booth>case 1) to case x)
17:56<fonsinchen>why should I. It complicates things unnecessarily. As it is now both routes are used up to their capacity.
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. extend the above scenario by a train going E-X-A, and a passenger at D wanting to go to A
17:57<Chris_Booth>well passenger should want to get off at e
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>it will first choose the path D-E [tram 1]; E-X [train]; X-A [train]
17:57<Chris_Booth>from e i mean a d
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>but once it is in tram 1, it will notice that A is in the destination
17:58<fonsinchen>Are you talking about cargodist or cargodest and who of you have actually tried cargodist?
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>so it will go D-E-D-C-B-A [tram 1]
17:59<Chris_Booth>ok using cases
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>and that is not an optimal route
17:59<Chris_Booth>you could have if route contains A
17:59<Chris_Booth>and doesnt have any repeat visit
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>you don't know the vehicle in advance
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>there could be a tram 3 going G-D-E
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>then the original route would be chosen randomly, depending on which tram comes first
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18:00<Chris_Booth>the station know the routes to next stop
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but the same route can be serviced by multiple vehicles
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18:02<Chris_Booth>see i always think the route maping in cardgo dist/dest is wrong
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>this "just stay on the vehicle" rule is of the same quality as the "fix" to transfers saying "just don't load cargo that came from a station in the order list"
18:02<Chris_Booth>i think it should be like the london underground map
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: feel free to create a graph like that automatically
18:03<Chris_Booth>ok in openttd its not going to be easy
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: it should be fairly trivial to replace the route network of cargodest
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is getting the right algorithm, and doing proper pathfinding on that graph
18:04<fonsinchen>What you are talking about is a multi commodity flow problem with some added constraints
18:04<Chris_Booth>what about a YAPF sytle algo to look at the graph?
18:04<fonsinchen>I think I can identify roughly the following:
18:04<Chris_Booth>e.g look upto 10 stops ahead to find the wuickest route?
18:04<fonsinchen>1. switch vehicle as rarely as possible
18:04<fonsinchen>2. london underground like
18:05<fonsinchen>It will be hard to solve that without 1. actually talking about multi commodity flow problems 2. formulating the additional constraints in some mathematical way
18:06<fonsinchen>And no, you can't solve a multi commodity flow problem with path finding. It won't work.
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem of line-based instead of hop-based pathfinding is to know which vehicle will come first
18:07<Chris_Booth>well you could have a wait function
18:07<Chris_Booth>wait for train in this list
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>so the entire network must be timetabled, which is an impossible constraint
18:07<Chris_Booth>not timetabled
18:07<Chris_Booth>if you group trains
18:07<Chris_Booth>then you know where they go
18:08<Chris_Booth>so train with proper shared orders
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i just told you, it isn't enough to know where they go
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>you have to know WHEN they go there, to find the quickest route
18:08<fonsinchen>well, good luck. And good night.
18:08<Chris_Booth>good night
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18:09<Chris_Booth>but lets say there are to route for a - d, route 1 which arrives frist travels a , b, c. the train the stops and you transfer to a train from c to d.
18:10<Chris_Booth>while route 2 which is behing goes direct from a - d
18:10<Chris_Booth>but will arrive first
18:17<Yexo>Chris_Booth: "going direct from a - d" doesn't tell you anything, the speed of the train is important, but also the length of the track it'll take
18:17<Yexo>you can't predict that anyway
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19:46<TT1a1a1>guys, whats the option or console command for stopping trains disappear after a certain amount of time?
19:48<R0b0t1>In advanced options, under vehicles, I think there's an option that sounds like "vehicles never become obsolete"
19:50<TT1a1a1>Vehicles never expire?
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>use "resetengines" to get back vehicles that have already disappeared
19:52<TT1a1a1>aye thats the one
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this is weird... i installed kmail/kde4 and copied over the messages and settings from kmail/kde3. it copied the messages, the filters, the receiving pop3 account
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>but it did not copy the sending pop3 account...
19:56<@Rubidium>kde's way of decreasing the signal to noise ratio of global email traffic?
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20:07<OwenS>sending pop3 account? pop3 doesn't do sending
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21:52<Tefad>so managed to get three intercontinental airports around a factory in tropical map
21:52<Tefad>the third airport isn't picking up goods...
21:53<Tefad>i am le confused.
21:53<+glx>only the two best stations get stuff
21:54<Tefad>why have i never noticed this before : x
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22:02<Tefad>what about multiple industries accepting goods
22:04<Tefad>crap segfault
22:04<Tefad>ottd totally hates me this round.
22:05<Tefad>i like to do really dumb things.. which tends to make ottd explode
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22:05<Tefad>i have a train station being fed by upward of 10 lumber mills at full capacity
22:06<Tefad>dumping into a single factory.. then flying the goods all the way across a 2048 map
22:06<Tefad>train length of 24, just for good measure
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 14 00:00:17 2009