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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-15

---Logopened Sat Aug 15 00:00:22 2009
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02:50<pavel1269>hello folks
02:50<abbmaz>hello
02:53-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@ti0034a380-1631.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd
02:53<Terkhen>hello
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03:11<Tefad>lol IPv6
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03:15<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
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03:56<fjb>Good Morning.
04:01<Alberth>good morning
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04:10<xmakina>morning
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04:33<Andel>can anyone here access www.rmweb.co.uk ?
04:35<xmakina>yes
04:35<Andel>ok ta
04:35<Andel>it works ok?
04:35<xmakina>looks fine to me
04:36-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0197d.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
04:38<Alberth>a company that removes the web?
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04:38<Andel>ok ta
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04:46<LordAzamath>morning
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05:15<andythenorth>morning
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06:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17181 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [website] -Change [FS#2949]: allow changelog.txt to be in the bundles
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06:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17182 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Feature(ish) [FS#2945]: sort vehicle lists on (timetable) delay
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06:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17183 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Add [FS#2827]: 'bundle_lzma' to the bundling functions
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07:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17184 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Add: 'bundle_7z' to the bundling functions
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07:24<Eddi|zuHause>bundle_lmaa?
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>( :p )
07:25<fonsinchen>eddi, you got up too early. You shouldn't do that on Saturdays.
07:29-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.204.193] has joined #openttd
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>i had to go to the beverages shop, which closes at 12:00
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>(PS: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMAA (meaning 1))
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07:39<fonsinchen>I do know ...
07:40<fonsinchen>and going to the beverages shop on Saturdays right after getting up is a bad sign ...
07:40<fonsinchen>;)
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07:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it means my parents are getting old, so my mother can't do heavy lifting anymore, and my father is too afraid to use the car...
07:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17185 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Tweak depot gui and vehicle lists, so text overlaps less with vehicle images.
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08:14<Terkhen>hello
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08:16<TrueBrain>hello Terkhen
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08:34<andythenorth>hello terkhen
08:38<Terkhen>hi
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09:11<pavel1269>ahh, such a great weather today made the time spent on swimming pool even better :-) pitty noone arrived :-P ( what a surprise )
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>then why are you already back?
09:21<TrueBrain>pavel1269: if I would, it would still have taken me 4 more hours to arrive at your place
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09:31<LordAzamath>gaaah.. Tried to understand squirrel but knowledge of lua is stopping me :D Why couldn't AI-s be written in Lua :o :P
09:31<LordAzamath>meh, shall continue learning some other time
09:32<TrueBrain>lack of classes, for one :p
09:32<SpComb>pfft
09:32<LordAzamath>err. 1 hour, I'll figure out what do classes mean in squirrel. :D
09:33<TrueBrain>sorry, what?
09:33<TrueBrain>I tried to parse that sentence in 7 different ways .. all 7 failed :p
09:33<SpComb>there's plenty of object-oriented code written in lua
09:33<LordAzamath>object oriented code is easy with lua
09:33<LordAzamath>metatables
09:34<TrueBrain>which are _not_ classes :)
09:34<LordAzamath>what are classes?
09:34<LordAzamath>:P
09:34<TrueBrain>what Squirrel ahs :)
09:34<SpComb>there are libraries that implement classes in lua
09:34<Alberth>object definitions
09:34<TrueBrain>stronger: Squirrel is created to add classes to lua :)
09:34<SpComb>it's true that lua doesn't ship with a built-in class/object model, but there are many valid ways of implementing it
09:35<TrueBrain>SpComb: and we call that way Squirrel, very good :)
09:35<LordAzamath>anyhoo, lua syntax is way easier :D
09:35<SpComb>Squirrel is written in lua?
09:35<TrueBrain>LOL! Why would that be a requirement?
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09:35<TrueBrain>LordAzamath: Squirrel is a bit more C like, yes
09:36<TrueBrain>but if you understand the idea of programming languages, you should not have that much of an issue to convert from one to the othe :)
09:36<TrueBrain>then/do => {; end => } :p
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>why do so many people complain about the syntax?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>syntax is the least relevant part of a language
09:36<LordAzamath>yeah, but what about some random :: thingsd
09:36<LordAzamath>I have no idea what they mean :P
09:36<TrueBrain>because they refuse to admit it is their knowledge :p
09:37<LordAzamath>[16:36] <LordAzamath> I have no idea what they mean :P << that is my knowledge
09:37<TrueBrain>the fact that lua doesn't have those is a nice proof it is not real OO :P
09:37<TrueBrain>either way, LordAzamath, :: means 'global' namespace
09:37<TrueBrain>AIRoad:: means AIRoad namespace
09:38<SpComb>what do namespaces have to do with OO? :/
09:38<SpComb>that's more like C++
09:38*TrueBrain sends SpComb on a leason OO
09:39<LordAzamath>well how would you say this is not an example of OO? http://lordy.pastebin.com/d6ee1dda8
09:39<LordAzamath>which is completely in lua, some right click menu for MTA I created :P
09:40<TrueBrain>you can even do OO in C
09:40<TrueBrain>does that mean C is OO?
09:40<OwenS>TrueBrain: Decent OO can be implemented in Lua with ~50 lines of code though
09:41<TrueBrain>OwenS: not really, but okay .. this is all a useless conversation anyhow :)
09:41<LordAzamath>true
09:41<+glx>LordAzamath: now bind c++ functions :)
09:41<+glx>and c++ classes
09:41<TrueBrain>OwenS: you say it can be done, we say it can't be done ... uselss, without proof of you implementing it in OpenTTD :)
09:42<LordAzamath>[16:41] <glx> LordAzamath: now bind OMGSOMETHINGTOODIFFICULTFORME functions :) <<< hmmm
09:42<LordAzamath>can't
09:42<LordAzamath>:D
09:42<TrueBrain>LordAzamath: either way, with a clear mind and asking very specific questions, the Squirrel syntax should not give you too much trouble when you know lua
09:42<TrueBrain>(or any other scripting language for that matter)
09:43<TrueBrain>as every scripting language (ignoring things like functional languages) follows the same ideology
09:43<LordAzamath>well yeah, I've already managed to write an ai which puts signs everywhere in game xD
09:43<TrueBrain>see :p
09:43<OwenS>On the other hand, is Lua (Or Lua + LuaJIT) not faster than Squirrel? :p
09:43<TrueBrain>that you might not know what :: means, everyone will forgive you that, and explain it to you when asked :)
09:43<TrueBrain>OwenS: I think C is even faster
09:43<TrueBrain>lets do it in C! YES!
09:44<OwenS>TrueBrain: Lua remains a scripting language :p
09:45<TrueBrain>well .. I guess we should also start removing PYthon, Ruby, and AlterScript and the like
09:45<TrueBrain>as they are all slower than Lua
09:45<TrueBrain>(Lua being one of the fastest scripting languages available, mostly because it is so limited in its functionality)
09:45<TrueBrain>even awk is slower :p
09:45<TrueBrain>(for a fib() calculation)
09:45<LordAzamath>heh, one more thing I'm not accustomed to and have had gazillion errors, upper case function names :D
09:45<SpComb>it just seems slightly silly to spend effort writing an entire language interpreter and runtime to replace lua just because it can't do OO
09:46<TrueBrain>the case doesn't matter if you call it yourself .. you are free to use the case. Just the Start and Stop have to be in that case (and Save and Load)
09:46<OwenS>I have to wonder at what point fib() in AlterScript would beat Lua (I.E. when the JIT overhead would be outweighed by the speed savings)
09:46<SpComb>but I guess that's been discussed before
09:46<TrueBrain>SpComb: lucky, we never did, and it was already done.
09:46<TrueBrain>OwenS: when you start doing JIT, thnigs change
09:46<TrueBrain>even Java outruns Lua in that case
09:46<SpComb>hmm... Squirrel was the 3rd party one? Wasn't there some internal effort as well?
09:47<SpComb>nail?
09:47<TrueBrain>we have been working on our own language, yes
09:47<@petern>there was that other thing a few years ago first
09:47<TrueBrain>but that has everything to do with some .. special needs AIs need :)
09:47<@petern>gpmi or something
09:47<TrueBrain>petern: then you never understood libgpmi at all
09:47<TrueBrain>as libgpmi isn't a scripting language
09:47<@petern>it was a bridge
09:47<@petern>i know
09:48<TrueBrain>(Generic Package and Module Interface .. the name says it all :p)
09:48<@petern>but it was "something" that was "worked on" for "ai"
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09:48<TrueBrain>no, it was suitable for AIs, and we used it to proof the concept, yes
09:48<@petern>and then reverted :D
09:48<TrueBrain>yes ... unauthorized by some lameass who did what he thought was the right way (tm)
09:49<TrueBrain>(without ever asking .. don't get me started)
09:49<@petern>too late
09:49<TrueBrain>true :p
09:50<TrueBrain>funny enough, NoAI is almost identical to those packages .. not suprising if you know I took those packages to start NoAI .. :p
09:50<TrueBrain>(give or take the C->C++ conversion :p)
09:50<LordAzamath>hmm how similar are c++ and squirrel in syntax then, is it not too awkward to use c++ syntax highlighter for squirrel?
09:50<TrueBrain>it should do fine
09:51<TrueBrain>the only main difference is that Squirrel doesn't require a ';' at the end of the line
09:51<TrueBrain>but I strongly suggest you do put a ';' at the end of a line
09:51<LordAzamath>why :P
09:51<TrueBrain>readability
09:51<TrueBrain>portability
09:51<LordAzamath>heh
09:51<OwenS>I should finish refactoring AlterScript's code generator out of the AST... then add a bytecode backend :p
09:51<@petern>truebrainprefersitability
09:52<TrueBrain>lol, I always wanted a word renamed to me
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>i hate it when people check stuff into my python code, and they put ; all over the place
09:52<TrueBrain>LordAzamath: it was a stupid design mistake of Squirrel to allow both. In general it is bad for any language to have such .. choices :p I would have gone with either way
09:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: even more as Python will complain :p
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>no, python accepts them...
09:53<OwenS>; simplifies the parser a bit however :p
09:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: really? Last time it was bitching ...
09:53<TrueBrain>OwenS: \n or ;, it should be able to handle both :p
09:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: wow ... it allows it ...
09:54<TrueBrain>that .. amazes me ...
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>you can use ; to separate statements on the same line
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>so a ; at the end of the line just opens an empty statement
09:54<TrueBrain>completely against the ideology of Python :p
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>which is valid python code
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>just... it looks awful
09:55<TrueBrain>in Python, yes :) Hmm .. never knew :) Tnx Eddi|zuHause ;)
09:55<SpComb>it's rarely used
09:55<OwenS>TrueBrain: \n requires you add support for gobbling line endings when you want to continue a statement accross lines
09:56<TrueBrain>OwenS: true
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>you can have newlines within statements, as long as they are inside some other kind of brackets
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>(in python, i mean)
09:57<TrueBrain>you can? Yuck :p
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09:58<SpComb>it's a very important part of the syntax
09:58<TrueBrain>I only use newlines inside """ blocks
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes. for example list literals
09:58<TrueBrain>ah, like that, yeah
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>or function parameters
09:58<TrueBrain>I was more thinking like: if (\n
09:58<LordAzamath>(lua [[]])
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09:58*LordAzamath hides
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, that is possible, too
09:59<TrueBrain>I love Python for his auto-documentation stuff ..
09:59-!-xmakina|away is now known as xmakina
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, just put a string anywhere
09:59<TrueBrain>I hate it for its lack of scoping .. sometimes you move a block, and 1 thing gets a wrong \t ... and boem, it doesn't do what you expect it to :p
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, expecially when people cannot abide to coding style
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10:00<TrueBrain>well, all my IDEs (and vim specially) tend to eat \ts...
10:00<TrueBrain>or introduce plenty more :p
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, sometimes you need to turn off autoindent ;)
10:01<TrueBrain>never found out how .. always too lazy to find out how :p
10:01<TrueBrain>as mostly there already is the problem of \t -> \s\s\s\s\s\s\s\s
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>i'm lucky i found how to tell vim to use 4 spaces when pressing tab
10:01<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>and the right config file to put that to ;)
10:02<SpComb>worst thing is python code with mixed space/tab indentation that happens to work right (mostly...)
10:03<SpComb>one runs into it every now and then
10:03<TrueBrain>hehe, the other day I had a single \s before a statement between tons of other statements .. any idea how hard it is to find that :P
10:03-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@110.17-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:04<SpComb>\s? space?
10:04<TrueBrain>yes, one single too many in one statement in a crowd of statements
10:04<TrueBrain>python complains .. and it took me a while before I spotted it :p
10:04<TrueBrain>(as the error given is on the next line, and VERY vague)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, stuff like "unindentation does not match any previous indentation" or somesuch
10:06<Alberth>SpComb: I told my vim to display \t so I can see I have a broken file
10:06<TrueBrain>IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>just make a pre-commit-hook that forbids \t in python files
10:06<SpComb>there's also `python -tt`
10:07<SpComb>hmm, python shouldn't let you indent random statements either
10:07-!-Polygon [~Poly@87.76.42.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:08<TrueBrain>sometimes when having a C application I miss std::map .. grr
10:08<SpComb>use glib!
10:08<OwenS>std::map is nicer and more efficient :p
10:10-!-Wikie [~Wikie@79.117.156.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:10<TrueBrain>I don't feel like implementing a RB tree .. so a hash table it is :p
10:10-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@23.207-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd
10:10<SpComb>http://libredblack.sourceforge.net/
10:11<TrueBrain>LGPL
10:11<TrueBrain>no thank you :)
10:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r17186 /trunk/os/win32/installer/ (install.nsi notice.ini): -Change: remove UNICODE notice in windows installer
10:19-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1D2FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:21<TrueBrain>tnx nevertheless btw SpComb :)
10:24<LordAzamath>craps. :P
10:24<TrueBrain>ieuw
10:24<LordAzamath>trying to find out the easiest way to return a random town :D
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10:25<TrueBrain>in general it is not the best idea to pick a completely random on
10:25<TrueBrain>in general it is not the best idea to pick a completely random one
10:27-!-xmakina [~xmakina@87.112.64.87.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit []
10:27<LordAzamath>why not?
10:27<TrueBrain>as human, do you stat at a completely random town?
10:27<TrueBrain>start
10:27<LordAzamath>I'm just trying to do a test ai which would start to grow a town
10:27<LordAzamath>could pick the smallest town tho
10:27<TrueBrain>well, completely random is easy enough with AIBase.Random I believe .. or RandomRange
10:27-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.190.85] has joined #openttd
10:27<TrueBrain>when you want to pick a town which has some requirements, use lists :)
10:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17187 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make switches on news display mode complete.
10:28<LordAzamath>lists in squirrels are like tables in lua, right?
10:28<TrueBrain>I meant the AIList
10:28<LordAzamath>AITownList
10:28<LordAzamath>have seen it :D
10:28<TrueBrain>then use it! :)
10:29<Yexo>how did you think to implement it without AITownList?
10:30<TrueBrain>no more GetMaxTownID?
10:30<Yexo>it's at least deprecated
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10:31<TrueBrain>fair enough :)
10:31-!-KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
10:31<Yexo>already removed it seems
10:34<LordAzamath>okey, where does the Valuate method come from?
10:34<LordAzamath>nvm
10:34<LordAzamath>found
10:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17188 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use display mode names for naming window and widget descriptions.
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10:55<pavel1269><Eddi|zuHause> then why are you already back? --- i had to, today, but tomorrow ... :P
10:55<pavel1269><TrueBrain> pavel1269: if I would, it would still have taken me 4 more hours to arrive at your place --- i know, pitty everyone dont live in infinite house, with infite levels, with elevator of infinite speed ... :-)
10:57<pavel1269>also, my problem with breaking engines, while breakdowns are off, are caused by my patch ... :-D
10:59<TrueBrain>you had a PATCH APPLIED?!
10:59<TrueBrain>that is much more important than a grf ...
10:59<TrueBrain>bad pavel1269! BAD BAD BAD pavel1269 :p
10:59<pavel1269>^^
10:59<pavel1269>well, in my eyes, the patch did not break it, so only newgrf left ...
11:00-!-Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:00<TrueBrain>bad pavel1269! BAD BAD BAD pavel1269 :p
11:00<TrueBrain>(I just wanted to say it again)
11:00<pavel1269>baaah
11:01<LordAzamath>grr I hate it, I know there's a really simple answer somewhere so I'll look for it myself, rather than ask here, but then again I can't find it :D
11:01<TrueBrain>paradox
11:01<TrueBrain>but let me give you the answer
11:01<TrueBrain>here it comes
11:01<TrueBrain>ready for it?
11:01<TrueBrain>42!
11:02<LordAzamath>no
11:02<LordAzamath>:o
11:02<LordAzamath>NNOOO
11:02<TrueBrain>so now ask your question already :)
11:02<LordAzamath>I want to find it :D
11:02<TrueBrain>then shut up :p
11:03<LordAzamath>oh well, I want to get all road tiles belonging to a town into a tilelist
11:03<LordAzamath>So I guess there is somewhere a function like AITown.getRoads
11:03<LordAzamath>:P
11:03<TrueBrain>all, I don't think that is possible. But a good estimated is simple: just make a rectangle aroudn the core
11:04<TrueBrain>(core of the town)
11:04<LordAzamath>And then foreach ask if they are road tile?
11:04<TrueBrain>Valuator
11:04<frosch123>hmm, why can't enum be uses as incomplete types
11:05<OwenS>frosch123: Because their size is (sometimes) determined by their valid values
11:06<frosch123>well, you cannot determine the size of a incomplete struct either
11:06<frosch123>or even a struct with an unbound array at the end
11:07<pavel1269>quess, there is a difference?
11:08-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
11:14<LordAzamath>The tiles go like starting from top corner and counting to left corner, then another row starting at top corner, row 2 etc., right?
11:14-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
11:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17189 /trunk/os/win32/installer/notice.ini: -Fix (r17186): really remove notice.ini ;)
11:14<LordAzamath>So if I wanted to return a relative value to a tile, I'd have to know the size of the map, or is there an easier way
11:15<TrueBrain>euh, yes :p
11:15<TrueBrain>lol
11:15<LordAzamath>I'm trying to get a tile 5 tiles left and 5 tiles up for example
11:15<TrueBrain>would be a bit silly else ;)
11:15<TrueBrain>AITile .. look through it :)
11:15<LordAzamath>been looking there for a while, but ok, going there again
11:15<TrueBrain>hmm . or not ther e..
11:15<TrueBrain>one moment
11:15<TrueBrain>AIMap of course :p
11:16<TrueBrain>there you can get the X and Y, so that is one way for sure
11:16<TrueBrain>but I thought there was also a way to do it faster .. can't remember :p
11:17<TrueBrain>or could GetTileIndex be abused for that ..
11:17<TrueBrain>can't remmeber :p
11:17<LordAzamath>well getTileX, getTileY, getTileIndex soudl work
11:17<LordAzamath>should*
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11:18<TrueBrain>I think Yexo has a better memory on those subjects :)
11:18<frosch123>isn't that describted on the wiki under "things you need to know" ?
11:18<Yexo>AIMap.GetTileIndex(-5, -5) + reference_tile;
11:18<TrueBrain>see ;)
11:18<TrueBrain>frosch123: yup, indeed :)
11:19<Yexo>but you should check first whether AIMap.GetTileX(reference_tile) > 5 && AIMap.GetTileY(reference_tile) > 5
11:19<TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know#Tile_Arithmetic
11:19<TrueBrain>tp be exact
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11:21<LordAzamath>oh great :D
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11:24<Ammler>rename from spectacte to watch isn't complete?
11:24<Ammler>-c
11:26<TrueBrain>$ ERROR: Parse Error: could not parse
11:26<Ammler>hehe
11:26-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0FCE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:26<Ammler>someone changed spectate in watch
11:26<TrueBrain>where?
11:26<Ammler>but not everywhere.
11:26<Ammler>it is changed in the server lobby
11:27-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFBA81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:27<TrueBrain>weird :)
11:27<TrueBrain>Spectate is normal english, not? :)
11:27<Ammler>watch is at least easier to understand :-)
11:27<Ammler>and to write
11:27<TrueBrain>but okay, I can only find it in english_US
11:28<TrueBrain>(yes, and hte text: watch as a spectator)
11:28<Ammler>hmm, I use uk
11:28<TrueBrain>english.txt:STR_NETWORK_GAME_LOBBY_SPECTATE_GAME_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Watch the game as a spectator
11:28<Ammler>ah thanks
11:28<TrueBrain>the only string with 'watch'
11:28<TrueBrain>(using spectate here is a bit silly)
11:28<@petern>Spectate the game as a watcher
11:29<TrueBrain>english_US is inconsistant btw
11:29<Ammler>I had accidentially the wrong nglish
11:29<Ammler>E
11:29<@petern>of course, it's american...
11:29<TrueBrain>they have: watch game, instead of spectate game
11:29<TrueBrain>but the rest is all spectat*
11:29<Ammler>but still spectate ingame
11:30<TrueBrain>so it is just stupid :)
11:32<Ammler>it is somehow not clear, which English is the standard in OpenTTD, maybe no need?
11:32<@Belugas>Brit! All the way!!
11:32<@Belugas>of course my dear
11:32<@Belugas>no less
11:32<Ammler>well, that isn't usual for software, is it?=
11:33<@Belugas>what is the country of Chris Sawyer ?
11:33<@Belugas>who cares what is usual?
11:33<Ammler>Belugas: that needs insider knowledge :-P
11:33<@Belugas>it's usual to have a game in 3d
11:33<@Belugas>FUCK THAT!
11:33<@Belugas>Ammler, you are desesperate case
11:34*Belugas is going back to home cleaning
11:34<Ammler>dunno that word ;-)
11:34<LordAzamath>de-separate :D
11:35<Ammler>maybe it would be clearer, if you would call it just English, without "(UK)"
11:35<pavel1269>ha! no more breakdowns while they are off :-P
11:35<LordAzamath>color
11:35*LordAzamath hides
11:37<LordAzamath>anyhoo hl2:ep2 time
11:38<LordAzamath>thanks for help TrueBrain
11:38<Ammler>OT!
11:38<LordAzamath>?
11:38<Ammler>:-)
11:38<LordAzamath>likeeee.. off topic? :D
11:38<Ammler>hl2
11:39*LordAzamath searches an offtopic youtube link
11:39<LordAzamath>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPrnduGtgmc
11:39<LordAzamath>oh
11:39*LordAzamath hides
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12:00<Ping>hi mens
12:00<Ping>i have a question
12:00<Ping>is it possible to get the saving file from my pc to put it in my 2nd PC ?
12:00<+glx>yes
12:01<Ping>cool
12:01<+glx>and men is plural already :)
12:01<Ping>i go to holidays & i want to play on the same game
12:01<Ping>yes glx sry :s
12:02<Ping>do you know which file i have to copy ?
12:02<+glx>the .sav is enough
12:02<Yexo>My Documents/OpenTTD/save/
12:02<Ping>oh ok
12:02-!-fjb [~frank@p5485D4F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:03<+glx>but you may need to copy the newgrfs too
12:03<Ping>i didnt see OpenTTD created a folder in mydocuments
12:03<Ping>im noob ! :D
12:03<Ping>thx guyz ! :)
12:04-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-138-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:05<Ping>newgrfs are in OTTD/data ?
12:05<+glx>they are were you put them :)
12:06<Ping>i didnt chose anything ^^
12:06<+glx>if you used content download you'll find them in mydocs\openttd\content_download\data
12:06<+glx>but you need them only if your savegame uses them
12:06<Ping>ok, im gonna try now
12:09-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAE854a.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
12:13<Ping>it seems to be good
12:13<Ping>thx men
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12:20<@petern>ooh, a segfault
12:23<TinoDidriksen>Mmm, so crisp and tasty...
12:39<TrueBrain>I love segfaults
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13:17<@Belugas>Run, Rabbit Run
13:18*TrueBrain catches the rabbit
13:18<TrueBrain>dinner time!!!
13:18<TrueBrain>bbl :)
13:18<@Belugas>Dig that hole, forget the sun
13:18<@Belugas>...
13:18<@Belugas>gone
13:20<Ammler>filter.iseer.nl spams my log ;-)
13:21<Ammler>with msg, that my server spams your mailserver :-)
13:21-!-ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
13:21<Ammler>2 mails per min from same server is a bit low limit.
13:22<TrueBrain>filter.iseer.nl is rotated out, should be down by the end of next month .. new filter software is in place, but I guess the domain you try to mail to is not rotated out yet
13:22-!-^Spike^ [~spike@dhcp-077-251-090-192.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Not here]
13:22<Ammler>openttd.org
13:23<TrueBrain>hmm .. not on my list for next week yet
13:23-!-^Spike^ [~spike@dhcp-077-251-090-192.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:23<TrueBrain>but I guess the old filter is doing a good job .. 2 mails per minute sounds a bit too much to mail to us :)
13:24<TrueBrain>every sane MTA will retry in DECAY time .. and if not, it should stay blacklisted :)
13:24<Ammler>can happen quite esay with announce mails from issue tracker
13:24-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
13:25<Ammler>well it tries to retry, but then again 3 mails, of course :-)
13:25<TrueBrain>even if that happens, the MTA should reschdule delivery
13:25<TrueBrain>and it should arrive within the hour
13:25<TrueBrain>well, after the flood period, 2 of the 3 would be let in
13:25<TrueBrain>the 3rd boucned off again for the flood-period
13:25<TrueBrain>and then let in later on
13:25<TrueBrain>but if your MTA is broken, and doesn't respect a decay time ..
13:26<Ammler>that might be, but I doubt, what is the decay time?
13:26<TrueBrain>standard retry time
13:26<TrueBrain>try in 5 minutes .. still fais? try in 10 .. 20 .. 40 .. 80 ..
13:26<TrueBrain>wel,l I believe the times are slightly different, more like: 5, 10, 30, 60, 300
13:26<TrueBrain>but okay
13:27<TrueBrain>I believe this filter doesn't want to see the MTA for the next 5 minutes .. might be 10 or 30 (depending on the priority your MX received)
13:27<TrueBrain>blabla ..
13:27<Ammler>it is at 30mins now
13:28<Ammler>and every mail was rejected
13:28<TrueBrain>you waited 30 minutes for a retry?
13:28<Ammler>me?
13:28<TrueBrain>the MTA
13:28<TrueBrain>dah
13:28<Ammler>:-)
13:28<Ammler>the last was 19:21, before that at 18.51
13:29<+glx>who are you spaming on openttd.org?
13:30-!-Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd
13:30<TrueBrain>there were no delivery attempts at 18
13:30<TrueBrain>there were no delivery attempts at 18:51 CEST
13:30<Ammler>smatz and rubi
13:31<Ammler>Aug 15 16:32:29 mozart postfix/smtp[19686]: 8DF492B3285E: to=<rubidium@openttd.org>, relay=filter.iseer.nl[80.247.163.9]:25, delay=407877, delays=407797/0.03/7.1/73, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host filter.iseer.nl[80.247.163.9] said: 451-Too many messages received from you within a 1 minute time period. 451-. 451-[EximConfig-2.5-iseer.nl-Flood-Protect-Sender-Rcpt] 451-. 451-Sender: devzone@openttdcoop.org 451-Recipient: rubidium@openttd.org 451-. 451-.Verify:
13:31<Ammler> verified-39072-rubidium@openttd.org 451-Contact: filter@iseer.nl 451-. 451-Sorry, your message has not been delivered yet 451-because too many messages are currently being 451-received by our mail server from you to the above 451-recipient within a 1 minute time period (A 451-maximum of 2 are allowed.) 451-. 451-This measure is to protect our mail server from 451-message flooding/mail bombing, DoS (Denial of 451-Service) attacks, viruses and unsolicited spam.
13:31<Ammler> 451-. 451-Your mail server should automatically try to resend 451-your message for you after
13:31<TrueBrain>@kick Ammler PASTEBIN!
13:31-!-Ammler was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [PASTEBIN!]
13:32<TrueBrain>16:32 ... and he says 16:51 ... he really can't do math
13:35<Terkhen>mmm... there's a widget-related bug in trunk: buttons at the scenario editor toolbar (except the map, music and land information buttons) don't raise after they have been clicked
13:35-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DCAB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:35<TrueBrain>I guess Ammler should be happy we removed the central-blacklist feedback from those filters ... he is really hammering the servers .. lol :)
13:36<Terkhen>the pause, fast forward, settings and save buttons raise normally too
13:38<TrueBrain>the MTA of Ammler tries to bypass greylisting ... sucky MTA ..
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17190 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 13 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by amateja
13:50<Alberth>Terkhen: r17175?
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13:57<Terkhen>no, it was r17187-r17189
13:58<Terkhen>I don't remember the revision exactly
14:01<Alberth>those are changes in the news display windows
14:01<Alberth>I meant that r17175 changes auto-raise behavior, limiting it to push buttons only
14:03<Terkhen>mmm... but should they stay lowered even if the window they open is closed?
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14:10<Terkhen>I have to go, I'll be back later
14:10<Alberth>probably not
14:10<Alberth>see you
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14:22-!-Ammler is "Marcel Gmür" on #openttd @+#openttdcoop +#openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.bots #wwottdgd #oftc #coopetition #tycoon +#openttdcoop.pro +#openttdcoop.dev
14:23<Ammler>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd <--down
14:23<Ammler>SpComb: ^
14:23<Ammler>@logs
14:23<Ammler>@log
14:25<LordAzamath>baek
14:25<Yexo>Ammler: http://thegrebs.com/irc/
14:33<LordAzamath>lul i crashed OpenTTD with my AI
14:33<LordAzamath>or well
14:33<LordAzamath>froze
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14:37<Yexo>endless loop in a valuator?
14:37<LordAzamath>no
14:37<LordAzamath>removing a tile from a list in a valuator
14:37<LordAzamath>the very tile it works on
14:38<LordAzamath>valuating in a tile list and doing area.RemoveTile(tileID)
14:38<LordAzamath>freezes it
14:38<LordAzamath>I wonder if I should make a bug report
14:39<Yexo>please do
14:39<Yexo>although it may happen that only the documentation is updated stating you shouldn't do that :p
14:41<LordAzamath>well I think it should rather give a warning at ai debug than to completely freeze openttd
14:44<Yexo>as soon as I find a nice way to crash AIs from api code and a nice way to detect removing the element that's currentl being valuated, I'll be the first to crash the AI to avoid the problem
14:44<Yexo>(warning messages in the AI debug panel don't get read, AI crash messages do)
14:45<LordAzamath>hmm.. but there must be more ways to loop through a list, shouldn't there? :P
14:45<LordAzamath>So I can still remove the tiles I want
14:46<Yexo>removing while looping over the list is tricky
14:46*LordAzamath is thinking of foreach
14:46<Yexo>you can always use a foreach loop
14:46<Yexo>but I think even in that case removing the element you're working on is not supported
14:46<LordAzamath>hmm.. I'll continue at openttd.noai :P
14:47<Yexo>easy workaround is adding all element you want to remove to a remove-list, then do orig_list.RemoveList(remove-list); after the valuate/foreach
15:07<Yexo>quote from squirrel 2.2.3 changelog: "-fixed some minor bug"
15:09<Alberth>:)
15:12<OwenS>That changelog is beautifully descriptive
15:12<Yexo>the rest of the changelog is better, this just caught my attention :p
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15:26<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:26<welshdragon>z hello Nite_Owl
15:27<Nite_Owl><see previous reply>
15:27<welshdragon>:P
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15:34<Terkhen>hi again
15:35<Nite_Owl>Hello Terkhen
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15:38<SpComb>Ammler: not sure why yet, but I restarted lighttpd
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15:41<Alberth>Terkhen: does this fix the raise button problem in the scenario toolbar? http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scen_toolbar_raisefix.patch
15:42<Terkhen>let's see
15:43<Alberth>just modified most buttons to push buttons
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15:54<Terkhen>Alberth: yes, now all buttons raise after being pushed
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15:54<Alberth>ok, thanks for testing
15:56<Ammler>Thanks SpComb, now I can read what TrueBrain answered me, after he kicked me, he should learn, that not everyone has autojoin function ;-)
15:56<Terkhen>you are welcome
15:57<Xaroth>Ammler: I think it would have been more entertaining if you did :P
15:57-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*ammler@ammler.ch] by petern
15:57-!-Ammler was kicked from #openttd by petern [not does it help]
15:58-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*ammler@ammler.ch] by petern
15:58<SpComb>example by example
15:59<Terkhen>Alberth: the buttons that move the starting date are not working: they raise correctly but they don't alter the date... can that be caused by that patch?
16:00<Alberth>weird
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16:00<Terkhen>I am going to check with unpatched trunk
16:02<Alberth>that works, except rasing the buttons
16:02<Terkhen>yes, I just checked
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16:04<Terkhen>all other buttons in the toolbar work correctly, though
16:04<Terkhen>(in the patched version)
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16:23<Alberth>Terkhen: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scen_toolbar_raisefix2.patch this one works for me
16:27<pavel1269>in depot also ^^
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16:27<pavel1269>i mean, when selling wagon or part of train, they dont raise also, havent tryed everything in depo
16:29<Terkhen>Alberth: yes, every button in the toolbar is working perfectly with that patch
16:32<Alberth>Terkhen: ok.
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16:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r17191 /trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi: -Add: windows installer can now optionnaly download opengfx and opensfx
16:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17192 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17175): Buttons in the toolbar of the scenario editor did not raise again.
16:34<pavel1269>sounds like you should check all the gui windows :-)
16:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17193 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.cpp ai_abstractlist.hpp): -Fix [FS#3124]: guard the valuator against 'external' modifications of the valuated list which could cause it to go into an infinite loop.
16:34<Alberth>pavel1269: just the sell wagon, and sell chain buttons, right?
16:34<pavel1269>well, not sure, sell train
16:34<pavel1269>will test, mmt
16:35<Alberth>(ie the upper 2 buttons)
16:35<pavel1269>ye, only those 2 upper
16:37<Alberth>pavel1269: I am, it is just called 'make them use nested widget tree instead of the old widget array', and it takes several months.
16:37<pavel1269>hehe, but, good work :-)
16:38<pavel1269>also ... what does nested widgets bring to "us" ... normal users? :P
16:38<@petern>widgets that are nested
16:38<@petern>duh
16:39*pavel1269 looking in dictonary for "nested"
16:40<pavel1269>ehh, what? :D
16:40<pavel1269>so nothing new, but better work with them in code-wise?
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16:41<Terkhen>in the road vehicle depot window, only the first button (sell single vehicle) remains lowered after being clicked
16:42<Terkhen>the same happens for planes and ships
16:42<Yexo>pavel1269: it makes all windows scaleable, so large fonts actually work without overflowing
16:43<Alberth>or bigger sprites
16:43<Alberth>and right to left languages get mirrored windows
16:44<Alberth>and translators can use longer wording, and the window adapts
16:45<+glx>the screen won't be large enough for german ;(
16:45<+glx>;)
16:47<Alberth>all german users should buy a video projector
16:47<+glx>resolution is not infinite :)
16:48<Alberth>an analogue video projector
16:50-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.14.207.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>german neither has one-letter-words nor a lot of monosyllable words
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>which makes english sound plain and dumb in comparison
16:52<Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/depot_raisefix.patch seems to work
16:52-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.14.207.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>so... successfully switched kmail, kopete and amarok to kde4 versions... what's left?
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if i should switch kaffeine yet...
16:55<Alberth>kpackagekit?
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>what's that?
16:56<Alberth>automagic software package updater of Fedora
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>why would i care about fedora?
16:57<Terkhen>Alberth: that patch worked for me too
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is not installing the package, the problem is migrating the configuration/data
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>and the problem with kaffeine is that it's not a stable version yet
16:57<Alberth>Terkhen: ok, thanks again for testing
16:58<Terkhen>no problem :)
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17:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17194 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17175): Depot sell buttons did not raise again.
17:00<_ln>there's no k in stable
17:01<Alberth>is software ever truely stable?
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17:01<_ln>yes, when it's old.
17:01<_ln>(that's debian's idea of stable)
17:01<Alberth>that's called 'legacy code' :)
17:02<Alberth>well, enough today, good night all
17:02<Terkhen>pacman is old and has that funny overflow error :)
17:02<Terkhen>good night!
17:02<Yexo>good night Alberth
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17:12<Terkhen>andythenorth: I am going to test v0.5e right now :)
17:12<andythenorth>Terkhen: great ;)
17:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17195 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/ (17 files in 5 dirs): -Update: squirrel to 2.2.3 stable
17:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17196 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Update: the man page; add the sound set stuff and make a few things a bit clearer
17:27<pavel1269>gn folks
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17:36<Audigex>hihi
17:36<Nite_Owl>Hello Audigex
17:36<Audigex>hey
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18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17197 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] FPE when an AI tried to do "% 0" (r17195)
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Guard the valuator against 'external' modifications of the valuated list which could cause it to go into an infinite loop [FS#3124] (r17193)
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Remove: UNICODE notice in windows installer (r17186)
18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not return exit value of rm, but of the actual configure run (r17163)
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18:09<Sacro>When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.
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19:34<Jigfischer>It is time that all human races stand up to the threat that the feral negroid beast poses to civilization! Asians, Whites, non-negroid Hispanics, Indians, Semites, Turkics, Native Americans, etc need to band together and put an end to the incessant monkeyshines that the niggras have been imposing on society. If you are tired of the nignogs, then discuss it here at Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimp
19:35<Jigfischer>out.com/forum We are not White Supremacists, we are people of all human races....Negro Inferiorists! http://www.chimpout.com/forum
19:35-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~Jigfische@201.171.57.206.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] by DorpsGek
19:35-!-Jigfischer was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Jigfischer]
19:37<OwenS>They're still doing that? ...
19:38<welshdragon>yes, there are still spambots around
19:40-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit []
19:42<@Belugas>how pleasant to have retards among us...
19:43<@Belugas>fucking cro-magnons... NEANDETAL!
19:43<@Belugas>neandertals, that is.. i think
19:43<@Belugas>ho... speaking of retards...
19:44<@Belugas>LET"S COMMIT COPY AND PASTE!
19:44<@Belugas>Really???
19:44<@Belugas>no... silly... t'was a joke
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19:58<MyCatVerbs>On the bright side, the spambot did at least nominate one forum for possible DDoS.
20:00<MyCatVerbs>Well. Building or renting a botnet is a little too illegal for my tastes. Probably more effective to put the URL up somewhere where a lot of angry people will see it. :P
20:03<OwenS> /b? :p
20:04<MyCatVerbs>OwenS: my thoughts exactly, but I didn't want to say it aloud, partly for fear of tempting fate. "Anonymous is not your personal army" and all that jazz.
20:04<OwenS>lol
20:05<OwenS>I don't happen to hang anywhere near 4chan... but they do get things done :p
20:05<xmakina>i hope you're using a very loose definition of "done"
20:06<OwenS>xmakina: They do do things. Though they may not always be legal.
20:07<MyCatVerbs>Or effective.
20:08<xmakina>^^
20:08<xmakina>that's why i asked a very loose definition of "done" - they may do things but nothing ever gets "done"
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20:08<MyCatVerbs>I'm pretty sure some 4channers get done from time to time.
20:09<MyCatVerbs>It would explain how their numbers always seem to be on the rise. Plainly, they must be multiplying.
20:09<xmakina>lol - yes, they might be a bit more common :P
20:09<xmakina>wait... define "done" - i was assuming you meant arrested
20:11<MyCatVerbs>Well, occasionally it also involves handcuffs, but that's not all that common.
20:12<OwenS>I'm reminded of the time they tracked down someone who posted a youtube video of him being cruel to his cat
20:12<OwenS>...The guy now has an Encyclopedia Dramatica page, recieved phonecalls from them 24/7, and got reported to the police
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>i must hsve taken a wrong turn at albuquerque
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>people i have never seen talk about stuff i have never heard
20:14<OwenS>Incidentally, the first cartoon to contain that statement is no longer in circulation
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>where am i?
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 16 00:00:26 2009