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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-23

---Logopened Sun Aug 23 00:00:23 2009
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02:42<pavel1269>hello
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04:05<andythenorth>Do ships support 2CC?
04:06<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't they?
04:07<@petern>realistic acceleration for ships!
04:07<andythenorth>well one reason would be if I'd forgotten which range of colours was 2CC
04:07<andythenorth>which would make it driver error
04:07<andythenorth>or in this case, painter error
04:08<andythenorth>but I don't think it's that. I have some nice green funnels which I'd like to be white. Or red. Or yellow. As the mood takes me...
04:08-!-Nickman_87 [~nick.defr@d54C3F29D.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>there's a flag that needs to be set for 2cc to be enabled
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>for each vehicle
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04:10<Nickman87>hi Alberth, I see you saw my patch on FlySpray :)
04:11*Terkhen looks at the acceleration code for ships
04:11<Alberth>Nickman87: yes, I look there every now and then :)
04:11<Terkhen>mmm... seems realistic enough to me as is :D
04:12<Nickman87>did I change it in the correct way? If so I could try and do some more widgets :)
04:12<Nickman87>or didn't you have the time to look at it that deeply :)
04:14<Alberth>Nickman87: it look pretty much correct, but possibly not complete. In the constructor there are some settings with resize height and step height that should not be there
04:15<Alberth>(ie any form of hardcoded size is bad :) )
04:16<Alberth>I will need to look up how to do that, eg in the bridge_gui
04:16<andythenorth>Ships don't seem to support 2cc. I'm not convinced it's not something wrong locally though - some of my recent nightlies for OpenTTD don't offer a 2CC option at all
04:16<Nickman87>I changed one of those parameters somewhere to take it out of the widget array I think, but that is indeed original code :)
04:17<Alberth>however, atm I am fighting with the news display windows, and gaining ground *very* slowly :(
04:17<andythenorth>Would any kind person mind testing 2cc in this grf?
04:17<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/347/fish.grf
04:18<andythenorth>You'd be looking at the funnel on the large coaster in the -- view
04:19<Alberth>Nickman87: if you want to look into this issue, Window::UpdateWidgetSize() is the way to go, it gives you full control on size and resize steps of each widget.
04:20<Alberth>and as a result, the right values will pop up at the root of the nested widget tree, and get copied in the window->resize stuff :)
04:21<Nickman87>I'll take a look at it ;).
04:21<Terkhen>andythenorth: It doesn't seem to work. loading only FISH don't let you select the second company colour at the company window. after loading another GRF with 2CC and changing the second company colour, the funnel still looks the same
04:22<andythenorth>does a newgrf have to explicitly specify it uses 2CC?
04:22<andythenorth>I'll check the newgrf wiki...
04:22<Alberth>Nickman87: I *think* you only have to set the scrollbar values then (which is wrong too of course, but I save that for another day :) )
04:22<Nickman87>so its actually the first three parameters in the constructor that should go?
04:22<Alberth>Nickman87: thank you for your efforts
04:23<Nickman87>Glad to be of help :)
04:23<Nickman87>so "this->vscroll.cap = 12;" can stay?
04:24<Alberth>it should be computed from the height of the scroll bar and the resize step
04:24<andythenorth>...(ships 2CC fail). Hmm, I'm bamboozled. Can't see anything I'm doing wrong.
04:25<Alberth>Nickman87: (afaik, see the bridge_gui for details)
04:25<Nickman87>that sounds logical indeed :)
04:25<Nickman87>Looking at it right now, trying to figure out all the placements
04:26<Alberth>Nickman87: assume that fonts have unknown size ;)
04:27<andythenorth>petern: how fast does a ship accelerate uphill anyway?
04:28*Alberth likes that question :p
04:28<@petern>andythenorth, you haven't set property 17 for any ship
04:28<Nickman87>hmmm, isn't the resize step fixed because of "SetResize(0, 22)" in the nestedWidget list?
04:28<@petern>(which Eddi|zuHause said 20 minutes ago, but without specifics)
04:29<andythenorth>petern: ah ha. Coder errror
04:29<andythenorth>thanks
04:29<@petern>and uphill... they accelerate as normal :D
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04:33<andythenorth>2CC ship issue...resolved. thanks
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04:34<Nerbo>Hi
04:34<TrueBrain>hello
04:34<Nerbo>i' ve a question about openttd
04:34<TrueBrain>then you came to the right place
04:34<TrueBrain>lucky you don't have a quesiton about Debian, then you would be at the wrong place :p
04:35<Nerbo>how can I switch my name in the game ? default is "player"
04:35<Nerbo>lol
04:36<TrueBrain>first way: do it before you join, in the multiplayer window
04:36<TrueBrain>second way: open up the console, and type: name "yournewname"
04:36<TrueBrain>or was it nick ...
04:36<TrueBrain>either one :p
04:36<Nerbo>cool, thx ;)
04:36<Nerbo>another question
04:37<Alberth>Nickman87: setting resize steps hard-coded is bad, and should be removed
04:37<Nerbo>how can I switch channel in the in-game chat
04:38<Alberth>Nerbo: no need to announce that you will ask a question, simply ask it :)
04:38<Nerbo>in order to talk to team for example
04:38<Nerbo>private,...
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04:38<Nickman87>It is set in the bridge_gui? :D
04:39<TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer#Chatting
04:39<Nerbo>thanks ;)
04:39<TrueBrain>Nerbo: I suggest you read the wiki a bit for such questions; they are very general and answered many times
04:39<TrueBrain>you could have come up with that on your own ;)
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04:39<Alberth>Nickman87: such values act as default, you will get them in the UpdateWidgetSize() where they can be changed :)
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04:40<Nickman87>ah
04:40<Nerbo>see you soon
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04:41<Alberth>Nickman87: your 'SetStringParameters()' is a bit overkill, a simple 'if (widget == SLW_CAPTION) SetDParam(0, this->vscroll.count);' suffices, I think.
04:42<Nickman87>yeah, but I thought I'd make it more general for future additions?
04:42<Nickman87>would it differ in performace?
04:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r17269 /extra/website/account/templates/account/index.html: [Website] -Add: show on index of account where this account can be used
04:44<andythenorth>so...three coasters (ships), large, medium small. Same basic sprites, different lengths. Look quite similar in gameplay....
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04:45<andythenorth>...I can colour funnels / roofs differently for each size using 1CC and 2CC
04:45<andythenorth>this looks...messier. But is it worth it for players to be able to tell ships apart easily?
04:45<Alberth>Nickman87: we tend to extend only when needed (an extension here may not happen for many years). The idea is to get compact readable code. W.r.t. performance, the c++ compiler will probably optimize it away.
04:46<Nickman87>ok :) I'll keep that in mind
04:46<qball>wth I join a public server. withouth being able to do anyting I get kicked and banned
04:46<qball>damn I must be scary
04:46<@petern>probably someone who wants a private server but is too stupid set set a password...
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04:47<qball>bah, it looked like an interresting game
04:47<qball>I need to setup my own server someday
04:48<Alberth>ah, you *did* do something :p
04:48<qball>I looked yes
04:48<qball>I was ogling the landscape
04:49<qball>but I only looked, I did not touch!
04:49<TrueBrain>that is what they all say
04:58<Nickman87>haha :D
04:58<Nickman87>why can't I do this "resize->height = GetStringBoundingBox(STR_STATION_LIST_NONE) + 2;" Alberth, while the bridge_gui can? :D
05:00<Alberth>why can you not?
05:00<Alberth>oh, I see
05:00<Alberth>The function returns a Rect, not an unsigned integer
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05:04<Alberth>Nickman87: ^
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05:07<TrueBrain>I tihnk ^Spike^ didn't understand the conversation we had last time
05:08<TrueBrain>so let me be a tiny bit more specific: ^Spike^: /away is to mark yourself away, not renaming yourself. It is annoying, and not the thing we do in this channel. So please, turn it off. Thank you.
05:12-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*spike@*.chello.nl] by petern
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05:12<@petern>problem solved
05:12<TrueBrain>I in general give people the chance to adjust their settings, before booting them off
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05:15<TrueBrain>bah, my Dell keyboard and mouse are a complete waste of money (not that I paid anything for it in the first place). Keys are hanging randomly, mouse is not always working, .....
05:15<Nickman87>Aaaah, I see now Alberth, My mistake... :D
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05:19<TrueBrain>8 years you do with a keyboard+mouse set .. then you finally buy a new one, which doesn't make it through the first year ... I hate 'progress'
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05:22<TinoDidriksen>Get Logitech.
05:22<TrueBrain>I had for 8 years ....
05:23<TinoDidriksen>Aah
05:23<TrueBrain>and Dell is strictly seen Logitech :p
05:23<TrueBrain>but okay .. it is not like they have 1 thing :p 68 mouses ..... 35 keyboard + mouse ...
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05:28<blathijs>TrueBrain: I think I have script for adding users that just iterates the available uids and picks the first on that's not taken
05:28<blathijs>TrueBrain: But that's nog really scalable
05:28<TrueBrain>blathijs: I solved it :) Tnx anyway ;) Hihi :)
05:28<TrueBrain>I made a new class which add uidMember to a group
05:28<blathijs>TrueBrain: phpldapadmin supports a scheme which stores the next uid in LDAP, though
05:28<TrueBrain>and I added that to the ou=Users
05:29<TrueBrain>that value is the 'last used' value :)
05:29<blathijs>Ah :-)
05:29<TrueBrain>works nicely :)
05:30<TrueBrain>it all works nicely, in fact :)
05:30<blathijs>cool :-)
05:30<TrueBrain>so again tnx for all your help :)
05:31<TrueBrain>oh, I finally (!) received a PEN number ..
05:31<TrueBrain>will install it later this week :p
05:33<blathijs>Well, I don't think there are hundreds of PEN request each day, so a few days processing time isn't so weird?
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05:37<TrueBrain>no, I meant to say I didn't received it sooner, so I didn't install it yet :)
05:40<blathijs>I responded to your (!) :-p
05:40<blathijs>win 20
05:40<blathijs>crap
05:41<TrueBrain>in your pants!
05:42<TrueBrain>:)
05:42<TrueBrain>sorry, I couldn't resist :)
05:42<Nickman87>Alberth: do I need to set the "resize->height" for every widget independently?
05:42<Nickman87>Now for example, it only resizes my list, and not the window anymore :D
05:42<williham>TrueBrain: it's better than "... in bed"
05:43<TrueBrain>no more The Boat That Rocked for you williham
05:43<williham>heh
05:43<TrueBrain>:)
05:43<TrueBrain>Good movie btw
05:43<williham>never seen it
05:44<TrueBrain>ah :) In it, they talk about one who crapped in his bed, while he was with a girl
05:45<williham>oh
05:45<williham>I was thinking of the old fortune cookie trick
05:46<williham>A: "You will achieve happines and balance." B: "IN BED! OLOLOLOL!"
05:46<Alberth>Nickman87: yes, but you can set most of them to 1 in the NWidgetPart array. Containers combine them to the smallest common resize step. Since 1 is common to all resize step sizes, you are effectively copying the largest step to all other widgets.
05:47<Alberth>Nickman87: also, some of the widgets (like a scrollbar) already set that resize step.
05:48<Alberth>Nickman87: the above holds for resize direction perpendicular to the orientation of the container, in the 'natural' direction, it is much simpler.
05:54<Nickman87>indeed :)
05:54<Nickman87>pretty nifty system ;)
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06:08<Nickman87>hmmmm, it looks OK now, problem is, my minimum size isn't used anymore? I have a minimal size on the list but when resizing, the window stays, and the list get smaller
06:09<Nickman87>and it doesn't even grow back properly when making it bigger agian :d
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06:15<Alberth>Nickman87: minimal size is used only during setup and is valid for individual (leaf-)widgets only. That is used with filling to get smallest size for all widgets (ie of a non-resized window). From that point you can resize with the resize step.
06:16<Nickman87>so how do I limit the resizing? Inside "UpdateWidgetSize"?
06:17<Alberth>resize step = 0 prevents any resizing from smallest size
06:20<Alberth>can you post the NWidgetPart?
06:27<Nickman87>here: http://paste.openttd.org/210817
06:27<Nickman87>didn't change it :)
06:27<TrueBrain>I never read so many questions about the GUI :p
06:27<Nickman87>:D
06:27<Nickman87>I like GUI's ;)
06:27<Alberth>'about the GUI' is more questions like 'where should click to get a station window?'
06:27<Alberth>this is more about programming a GUI :)
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06:27<Alberth>Nickman87: line 8 (the SLW_LIST widget) could use a SetFill(true, true) but otherwise seems fine
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06:30<Nickman87>do you prefer "true/false" or just "0/1" for booleans?
06:30<Nickman87>"1/0" if you want to make it the same...
06:30<Alberth>I prefer true/false, although I must admit using 1/0 all over the place :p
06:31<Alberth>I think of filling as another resize operation, and that uses numeric values rather than booleans
06:33<Alberth>(12:09:21 PM) Nickman87: hmmmm, it looks OK now, problem is, my minimum size isn't used anymore? I have a minimal size on the list but when resizing, the window stays, and the list get smaller <-- what is "the list get smaller" ?
06:34<Nickman87>I'll take a screenshot
06:34<Alberth>maybe you do something weird in the UpdateWidgetSize() ?
06:36<Nickman87>does openttd have its own image service? :)
06:37<Alberth>tt-forums :)
06:37<Nickman87>:D
06:37<Nickman87>uploading it somewhere
06:38<Nickman87>http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs842&d=09340&f=resize_problem985.png
06:38<Nickman87>what you see there is where I moved my cursor while resizing
06:38<Nickman87>the list gets smaller, but the window stays at the minimum size
06:38<Nickman87>I also show the UpdateWidgetSize() function ;)
06:39<Alberth>you mean the scrollbar?
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>opengfx seriously needs to make the settings and save icons closer to the original
06:40<TrueBrain>why?
06:41<Nickman87>no, the scrollbar is ok
06:41<Nickman87>the whole window stays at the minimum size set, except for the list
06:41<Nickman87>it should show about 4 more lines
06:41<Nickman87>but whil trying to resize the window smaller, they dissapear and never come back, The four empty lines stay there
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: people already got horribly confused because someone explained to him "click the wrench icon"
06:42<TrueBrain>so people need to adjust ..
06:43<Alberth>Nickman87: you fixed this "10" ? this->vscroll.cap += delta.y / 10;
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06:45<Alberth>Nickman87: bridge_gui also sets SetVScrollCount() in OnResize() which seems useful :)
06:47<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: if you play with opengfx for a year, and then switch back you'd be equally confused.
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the problem is not switching, the problem is person A, who never played with opengfx, remote-explaining to person B, who never not used opengfx
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>it does not have to be the same icon, but it should be the same pictogram
06:49<Alberth>Also, once opengfx is finished, I don't see a good reason to stick with the current non-maintained TTDX graphics, I think many people will switch.
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>that is not the point
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06:50<Eddi|zuHause>any person searching for a toilet will search for a sign that remotely resembles a man or woman
06:51<Alberth>as TB said, having more than one set of graphics around is a new situation that we need to adapt to.
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>they always look slightly differently, but they always resemble the same form
06:51<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I understand your problem, yet I don't agree that OpenGFX should change. It is like keeping the 'Start' menu always like that, just because once someone started with it :p
06:51<TrueBrain>and because I like the OpenGFX ones more :)
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get why someone would write savegames on a CD :p
06:52<Alberth>yeah, stopping progress because of prior art makes little sense to me
06:52<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: new users of computers have never seen a floppy
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm not asking to stop progress, but in this case, i'd value the similarity more than the supposed benefit of "progress"
06:56<TrueBrain>I wonder btw where those save icons are, you refer to :p
06:57<TrueBrain>(and my point here is that the icon doesn't indicate the save menu :p)
06:59<TrueBrain>either way, Eddi|zuHause, how do you see that there can be a conflict in the matter?
06:59<TrueBrain>that a user can't find where to save his game because he is looking for another icon?
07:00<Nickman87>hehe, now my list dissapears when I resize horizontaly Alberth :D
07:00<Alberth>:)
07:00<Nickman87>but when I resize vertically it does work, only it overflows a bit ;)
07:00<Nickman87>but I should be able to solve that
07:00<Nickman87>I don't really understand this line though "this->resize.height = this->height - 10 * 7; // minimum if 5 in the list"
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07:02<TrueBrain>morning frosch123
07:02<frosch123>morning truebrain
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: if you click on the icon without holding, it opens the save menu
07:03<TrueBrain>how the *bleep* do you activate OpenGFX ingame?
07:03<frosch123>open game options
07:04<TrueBrain>tnx
07:04<Alberth>Nickman87: this->resize.height is the minimal height of the window, this->height is the initial window height (as defined in the WindowDesc). Apparently the latter resizes to 12 lines. Just set minimal size of the list to 5 lines, and it should work (as initial resize of the WindowDesc is still done).
07:04<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the settings icon is very clear, if you put both versions next to eachother, you can't have any mistake on that
07:04<TrueBrain>and the floppy to cd, I find an amuzing joke :)
07:05<Alberth>frosch123: I read that as 'open-game options' and got very confused :)
07:05<frosch123>i always store my savegames on cd-rw
07:05<frosch123>Alberth: yeah, i read it also like that after i wrote it :p
07:05<TrueBrain>damn, I really haven't played OpenTTD in a long time .. right button scrolling is still not logic :)
07:05<TrueBrain>and <ok> <cancel> buttons neither
07:06<frosch123>TrueBrain: there are about 5 settings to individualise scrolling
07:06<TrueBrain>okay, the 'default' settings are weird :p
07:06<TrueBrain>it always was :)
07:07<Alberth>TrueBrain: that's why you can change them :p
07:07<TrueBrain>and using dutch language sucks ass :p
07:08<Alberth>it does with any program imho
07:08<TrueBrain>yup
07:08<TrueBrain>it still did generate townnames in english :p
07:09<TrueBrain>sorry Eddi|zuHause, I tried, but I really can't see how it can ever give any confusion ...
07:10<Nickman87>so, actually the line should just be "(this->height / this->resize.step_height) * this->resize.step_height;" which looks stupid, but will remove some pixels?
07:11<TrueBrain>you can write it down in a less stupid (but more expensive) way: height -= height % step_height
07:12<Nickman87>its only once so... doesn't really matter if it is more expensive :)
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07:19<Nickman87>it's resizing like it should again Alberth ;)
07:20<Nickman87>have to go now ;)
07:20<Nickman87>cya!
07:21<TrueBrain>bubye :)
07:26<TrueBrain>Hmm .. I agree with Nickman87, time to go :) Have a good day all!
07:39<Alberth>Nickman87: I knew you could do it!
07:39<Alberth>Bye TrueBrain
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09:41<andythenorth>Terkhen: Terkhen: RV acceleration...the articulated vehicle behaviour, specifically unladen weight, how likely is that to change: no | maybe | very likely?
09:41<andythenorth>as I am about to go through HEQS and move weights to the lead vehicle of each consist (not a lot of work, but some work nonetheless)
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09:55<timbo>hello
09:57<timbo>is ther any1 ther
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10:05<frosch123>andythenorth: very unlikely. there is a certain optimisation present, which just sums up weight, power and TE for e.g. whole trains consist (and Terkhen does the same for RV). if you would do that also for trailers you would end up with the load adding up to the TE. I.e. currently you can design a engine with e.g. 5 tons weight, 1000 hp and a certain TE coefficient which then results in a certain TE pulling the whole load of 30 tons.
10:05<frosch123>if you now sum the weight and TE of all parts, you would end up with a TE depending on the load of the trailers, as you cannot distinguish the powered axes of the engine from the unpowered axes of the trailers
10:07<andythenorth>okey dokey, that sounds sane. I'll just add up the unladen weights of the trailers and add them to the lead vehicle.
10:08<andythenorth>That will increase TE, but will also add to total weight to be moved for any given hp (which is what I want)
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10:50<Nickman87>Hi Alberth, I've finished the window (I think, will check it again ;)) but I have created a height difference: http://www.ploader.net/files/27bf54020d9c09373a3b7efe81dc2106.png
10:50<Nickman87>Should I adjust it so it has the same height as before? Or is this okay?
10:51<Alberth>looks like the line height has changed
10:51<Alberth>I am busy playing a game atm, so no time now
10:53<Nickman87>Yeah, I know what caused it, but should I bring it back to the normal height or keep it like this?
10:55<Alberth>the left one looks a bit too compact to me
10:56<+glx>font size is different it seems
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11:04<Nickman87>font size is the same, the left image is the currect window, the right one is my adapation :)
11:04<Nickman87>so my version is less compact
11:05<Nickman87>should I compact it again, or leave it like this? :)
11:07<+glx>your version uses variable while the original uses constant I guess
11:09<Nickman87>yes, but the height is constant over all the sign words
11:09<Nickman87>only difference is: height 12 vs height 10 :)
11:10<Nickman87>current game uses height 10 (compact version) Mine uses heigh 12
11:10<Nickman87>so, should I correct it to 10 again, or stick with the 12
11:10<Nickman87>or go with 11? :D
11:14-!-DX [~Dreamxtre@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
11:14<DX>Hi All
11:14<Nickman87>hi
11:15-!-DX is now known as Dreamxtreme
11:15<Dreamxtreme>anyone played my map then
11:15<Dreamxtreme>England & Wales
11:16<+glx>Nickman87: I think it should be something with FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL
11:17<+glx>maybe like max(FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL, height of the colored box)
11:17<Nickman87>ai.gui uses it :)
11:17<Nickman87>yeah
11:17<Nickman87>good idea
11:18<+glx>like in company_gui.cpp:497
11:19<+glx>as nested windows should auto adapt to any font :)
11:19<Nickman87>(byte)14 looks a bit hackish? :D
11:20<+glx>sprite height, but maybe there's a "cleaner" way
11:21<Nickman87>in the signs gui it just gets draw, so I cant get any info off it
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11:23<Nickman87>think I have soemthing
11:25<+glx>GetSpriteSize() may help
11:27<Nickman87>yeah ;)
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11:30<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
11:31<Nickman87>seems to be working
11:31<Nickman87>--> "resize->height = max(FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL, (byte)GetSpriteSize(SPR_PLAYER_ICON).height);" looks much cleaner ;)
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11:32<frosch123>how about max<uint>(...., ....)
11:33<Nickman87>that is another possibility :)
11:33<Nickman87>its cleane r;)
11:33<frosch123>"byte" knid of refers to bytes :)
11:35<Nickman87>yeah
11:35<Nickman87>now its back to 10 glx
11:35<Nickman87>should I add one more pixel, or leave it as dense as the current system?
11:36<frosch123>you could add a WD_PAR_VSEP_NORMAL
11:37<frosch123>iirrc Alberth already converted the town list, how does that one look like?
11:37<Nickman87>Ill take a look
11:39<Nickman87>it is just "FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL" so 10 px...
11:40<frosch123>then I would suggest to do the same :)
11:40<Nickman87>ok, I'll keep it like this then
11:41<Nickman87>problem is, when the company sprite sould grow to lets say 10 or 11 px height, they would be pressed against eachother ;)
11:46<Nickman87>why is this 'SetDParam(0, si->index);' stated in the signs_gui.cpp file... It doesn't print a sequence number...
11:46<Nickman87>I mean a sign number
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11:50<+glx>what's the stringid ?
11:50<Yexo>good evening
11:52<+glx>TrueBrain: can you please put me back in french translators group ?
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11:53<+glx>Nickman87: it's a {SIGN}, meaning it will draw the sign value
11:53<Nickman87>STR_SIGN_NAME
11:54<Nickman87>so "si->index" contains the content?
11:54<+glx>no it contains the index, which is used to get the content
11:54<+glx>FormatString() handles that
11:55<Nickman87>aaaaah
11:55<Nickman87>ok :)
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11:59<Nickman87>I uploaded a new patch to flyspray Alberth ;). I think all the magic numbers are gone now
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12:00<Alberth>ok, will take a look at it
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12:10<Terkhen>frosch123: sorry, I just came back... thanks for answering to andythenorth :)
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12:11<frosch123>don't talk about the devil ^^
12:11<Terkhen>hehehehe
12:11<Terkhen>hi andythenorth
12:11<andythenorth>hello
12:12<Terkhen>sorry about not answering; I was away... but just what frosch said :P
12:13<andythenorth>that's fine. I'll change the HEQS vehicle stats. I have compiled OpenTTD with the RV physics patch, it's looking good so far...
12:14<andythenorth>(typing slowly, got post-climbing arms)
12:16<Terkhen>great, I think I got all the bugs and design errors with v6... I'll check everything again (specially articulated vehicles) with the updated HEQS, because I still have the feeling that I am missing something important
12:16<Terkhen>I always have that feeling when I code something anyways
12:17<andythenorth>:)
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13:38*PeterT feels that DaleStan/Guest509 has an unstable connection.
13:39<Alberth>I'd rather call it 'dynamic' :p
13:39<PeterT>Can you say understatement?
13:40<Alberth>understatement
13:40<Alberth>yes I can say that
13:42<PeterT>are you sure?
13:42<Alberth>how sure can one be of ones own beliefs?
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17270 /trunk/src/lang/ (danish.txt portuguese.txt serbian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 39 changes by silentStatic
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by SupSuper
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: serbian - 4 changes by etran
13:46<frosch123>planetmaker: next time i would write the foundation stuff using script-fu
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13:55<Terkhen>andythenorth: my feeling was right, there was a huge mistake on my part... check the patch thread
13:56<Terkhen>I'm sorry if you already started testing
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13:59<andythenorth>Terkhen: ^ I replied in the thread. Not testing right now, cooking dinner ;)
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14:00<Terkhen>okay, I'll check that too
14:01<Terkhen>you remember in which vehicle you saw that problem?
14:01<andythenorth>Thunder Mountain truck
14:01<Terkhen>thanks, I'll get to it
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14:35<TrueBrain>glx: done
14:35<TrueBrain>relogin before it takes effect
14:35<TrueBrain>affect
14:35<TrueBrain>hmm
14:36<Alberth>effect
14:36<Alberth>after relogin he is than affected by your change
14:36<Alberth>s/than/then/
14:38<TrueBrain>I hate english ;) Tnx :)
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14:38<frosch123>didn't your wrote earlier today, you also dislike dutch?
14:38<TrueBrain>in games, very much
14:39<TrueBrain>but all sane dutch people have that :)
14:43<OwenS>Who put a PCI-E graphics card in the PCI section? -_-
14:46<TrueBrain>blathijs: exim doesn't like sending mail with LDAP accounts (via PAM) :(
14:46<frosch123>you mean in some shop, or was someone strong enough to squeeze a pci-e card into a pci slot?
14:50<OwenS>frosch123: Shop categories
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14:50<Yexo>TrueBrain: have you ever had contact with the squirrel developer?
14:51<TrueBrain>Yexo: tried 2 or 3 times, failed, never tried again .. never took any real effort
14:51<TrueBrain>why?
14:52<Yexo>because http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=44837 is a bug in squirrel
14:52<TrueBrain>try contacting him :)
14:52<Yexo>so I intented to report it back
14:52<Yexo>I certainly will :p
14:53<TrueBrain>let me know how that goes :)
14:57<TrueBrain>Yexo: btw, I will now be porting your account to the new id from LDAP :)
14:58-!-XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
14:59<Yexo>TrueBrain: does that have any effect?
14:59<TrueBrain>yes, your ID is now different :p
14:59<TrueBrain>all done :)
15:00<Yexo>ok :)
15:01<TrueBrain>oh, and if you had a different SSH password (if any at all), it is now in sync with LDAP :p
15:01<TrueBrain>soon we will force SSH keys .. but that in the (near) future :)
15:01<TrueBrain>oh, and I didn't link NoAI (read: redmine) yet
15:02*Yexo should fix my graphical ssh client to use an ssh key
15:02<TrueBrain>please do :)
15:03<Yexo>reporting a squirrel bug problem 1: after creating an account on the forum I don't get a confirmation email (so no password)
15:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17271 /trunk/src/ (25 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: SetFill sometimes used 1/0 when it should be using true/false
15:04<TrueBrain>hehe, well, in theory it can be our filter which didn't let the mail through :p
15:04<+glx>OwenS: avoid that shop if you can (seems they don't know what they sell)
15:05<TrueBrain>(greylisting and shit)
15:05<Yexo>TrueBrain: didn't use my openttd.org email, so that certainly isn't the problem ;)
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15:05<TrueBrain>hehe
15:05<TrueBrain>fair enough :)
15:05<Yexo>ah, just got the message
15:05*TrueBrain celebrates
15:05<Yexo>(after the "forgotten password" mail)
15:05<TrueBrain>and hello R0b0t1
15:05<R0b0t1>ello
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't understand it... can anyone explain to me the xkcd bit about the sunglasses?
15:06<TrueBrain>does it send you the password rawtext? I always hate those services, which send me my password in plaintext
15:06<TrueBrain>means they store my password plaintext ...
15:06<TrueBrain>scares the hell out of me
15:06<Yexo>TrueBrain: it does
15:06*TrueBrain is proud to state that all openttd.org passwords are crypted the first time they are received .. via ssha .. one way crypt :p
15:07<TrueBrain>plaintext passwords are never any longer available then a single request, and that because they are in some POST buffer :p
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>you should encrypt the passwords client side ;)
15:08<TrueBrain>considered it, but ldap connects via its own crypt :)
15:08<TrueBrain>so that was no option :)
15:08<TrueBrain>well, maybe that is not true .. only adds the javascript requirement to the site ..
15:08<TrueBrain>okay, silly thought :)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and force https: connections...
15:09<TrueBrain>https is available for all optional :) As we use cacert CA, I don't want those complains :p
15:10<TrueBrain>if someone would sponsor us with a more accepted root CA signed certificate, I am more than willing to force https :)
15:11<Yexo>the squirrel forum doesn't have a way to upload files, and I can't find a way to make (part of) a post plaintext
15:11<TrueBrain>but okay ... squirrel forum stores passwords plaintext ... so don't use your main password or what ever :p
15:11<Yexo>how usefull when you expect bug reports on a scripting language and as such also expect code to be posted...
15:11-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
15:11-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
15:12<TrueBrain>Yexo: the site is not the best ... and the forum is not the best .. there is a lack of documentation and coding style .. yet .. it is the only language doing what it does :)
15:12<TrueBrain>clearly the best programmers are the worst website creators :
15:12<TrueBrain>p
15:12<Yexo>hehe :p
15:13<OwenS>TrueBrain: Hmm... I think I have a couple of "digital coupons" for free Commodo CAs lying around
15:13<OwenS>certs**
15:13<OwenS>Unfortunately I don't think theres a way for me to actually send you one :p
15:14<OwenS>[Namecheap have been giving them away with domains]
15:15<OwenS>(I think I have about 10 useless whoisguard coupons lying around also...)
15:16<+glx>TrueBrain: so you are a bad programmer ? ;)
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15:18<OwenS>TrueBrain: I hope to establish competition against it soon :p
15:22<OwenS>TrueBrain: I am proud to say my site hashes passwords using a one way algorithm derived from Blowfish, invented by the OpenBSD folks to be secure and, importantly, slow
15:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17272 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3115]: game options window sub frames wouldn't resize when another did
15:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17273 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: -Fix [Squirrel]: calling a function that has default parameters with not enough parameters can cause a crash
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15:27*OwenS wonders why the Squirrel source has "(nargs++)"... those parentheses are useless and liable to confuse people
15:28*Yexo thinks OwenS hasn't looked at the rest of the squirrel code yet
15:28<OwenS>Just looking at the style used in your patch makes me want not to :p
15:29<TrueBrain>[21:22] <OwenS> TrueBrain: I am proud to say my site hashes passwords using a one way algorithm derived from Blowfish, invented by the OpenBSD folks to be secure and, importantly, slow <- ssha (salted sha-1) is currently the 'standard' and is very hard to revert ;)
15:29<TrueBrain>glx: yes :p
15:30<OwenS>TrueBrain: Aah, thats what Solaris uses for /etc/shadow (Compare Linux, which uses an MD5 derived method). The OpenBSD one has the advantage that brute forcing (or even dictionary attacks) are very, very slow
15:30<TrueBrain>but I never understood why people think that 'forgot password' should sent you the password you entered :s
15:31<Yexo>TrueBrain: the squirrel site doesn't, it sends you a new password in clear text
15:31<Sacro>I heard yesterday that there's talk amongst computer companies to increase the size of a byte by one-eighth.
15:31<Sacro>I'd say that's a bit too much.
15:31<TrueBrain>OwenS: my linux uses ssha too :p
15:31<OwenS>I send people a token and ask them to enter it on a form, which then lets them enter a new password
15:31<Yexo>but you can't enter a password when you sign up, and there is no message to advise you to change it at all
15:31<TrueBrain>OwenS: exactly how it should be done :)
15:31<TrueBrain>(and the part I still have to do :p Hehehehe :))
15:32<TrueBrain>OwenS: but yeah, slow algorithms are very useful :)
15:32<Sacro>TrueBrain: i don't get why 'secure' sites ask for stupid things like Date of birth, mother's maiden name, place of birth
15:32<OwenS>Even better, I send a token composed of words for the really horrid scenario of can't copy & paste for some reason
15:32<Sacro>anyone with my facebook can quite easily get all 3
15:32<Sacro>i mean seriously, date of birth...
15:32<TrueBrain>OwenS: I use a md5 hash, so all values are between 0..9A..Z :p
15:33<TrueBrain>My date of birth is @$%#123wedsf34523$@@#$WEdf
15:33<TrueBrain>my mother's maiden name tend to be something very simular :p
15:33<OwenS>I use a 16 byte random number passed through the RFCsomething filter :p
15:33<TrueBrain>I am always VERY sure I will never pass any of those 'forgot password' questions :)
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>"don't use your relatives' names as password"
15:33<OwenS> My bank doesn't use those for "forgot password". It asks it each time you login in addition to your password -_-
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>"use them as recovery phrase instead"
15:34<TrueBrain>now that is a bit smarter :)
15:34<TrueBrain>means besides the account details, you also need to know the person
15:34<TrueBrain>limiting random exploiting
15:34<OwenS>"Your town of birth: " Erm... Which way did I write it? Just as "X" or as "X-on-Y"? Grr
15:34<williham>random exploiting is a comparatively small problem, tho'
15:35<OwenS>Same kind of problem applies to the "Your first school" question
15:35<TrueBrain>OwenS: can we safely say: ANY social question?
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: "The bodies are..."
15:35<TrueBrain>before you start stating them all? :p
15:36<OwenS>TrueBrain: No, "Mothers maiden name" is pretty unambiguous. It of course assumes your mother married...
15:36<TrueBrain>with capital
15:36<TrueBrain>... :p
15:36<TrueBrain>but okay :)
15:36<OwenS>I'd always capitalize properly :p
15:36<TrueBrain>those questions sucks
15:36<TrueBrain>and are always answered by me in a rather cool way :p
15:36<TrueBrain>mostly immediatly showing SQL Inject problems :)
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>just use your password as password recovery phrase :p
15:37<TrueBrain>for a long time my password was: ' or ''='
15:37<TrueBrain>you have no idea how often I logged in as a random other user
15:37<TrueBrain>or worse: as administrator
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>haha ;)
15:37<TrueBrain>freewebs.com not being the smallest of those
15:37<OwenS>lool
15:38<TrueBrain>the fun part always is when you email it to them
15:38<TrueBrain>either they deny it (and didn't fix it)
15:38<TrueBrain>or they flame you to the ground for hacking their site
15:38<OwenS>I'm embarassed to admit my first PHP website let you do stuff like ?p=/etc/passwd ...
15:38<TrueBrain>yes .. hacking .. I needed such a big skillset to 'hack' into their site...
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>"but my son really IS called bobby tables."
15:39<TrueBrain>OwenS: that is bad, but that happens .. we can all make that mistake .. maybe even openttd.org has that mistake
15:39<TrueBrain>therefor in /etc/passwd nowedays are no passwords :p (despite the name)
15:40<OwenS>TrueBrain: Fortunately I think it was on SF.net or such, so not much non public accessible :p
15:40<TrueBrain>hehe, fileplanet had th eproblem on their FTP
15:40<TrueBrain>' or ''='
15:40<TrueBrain>and you were administrator :)
15:41<TrueBrain>but okay, either proftpd or pureftp had that problem in general for many versions .. I always mix up those 2, so don't ask me which :p
15:41<OwenS>Isn't this why, if you must run an ftpd, you run vsftpd? :p
15:42<OwenS>(It is vsftpd isn't it?)
15:42-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:42<TrueBrain>I am pretty sure it also has security issues
15:42<TrueBrain>but rather, run ftp as non-root on some non-important system :p
15:42<TrueBrain>but hell, don't use ftp
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>who in his right mind uses ftp?
15:42<TrueBrain>it still amazes me how many ISPs allow you to upload your website via FTP :(
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>use sftp
15:42<TrueBrain>scares the hell out of me
15:43<OwenS>I think the only valid reason to run it is as a public download archive.
15:43<OwenS>Though why you wouldn't use http for that is beyond me...
15:43<TrueBrain>OwenS: I prefer http over ftp, but yes, anonymous read access ..
15:43<TrueBrain>I believe most of our binary mirrors have ftp too :p
15:43<TrueBrain>ftp not supporting vhost, makes it expensive :)
15:43<TrueBrain>oeh oeh oeh, soon I will be toying with a vhost patch for subversion :) Can't wait to see if that is any good :)
15:44<OwenS>Yeah, it's vsftpd. Kernel.org, redhat, suse and openbsd run it
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15:50<TrueBrain>if I am done (if ever) restructuring openttd.org, I might even start vsftpd :p
15:50<TrueBrain>I still need to battle Django, why on earth it sometimes mixes the caches of one language with the other
15:51<TrueBrain>presenting some WEIRD language for 5 minutes on the /en pages
15:51<OwenS>O_o
15:51<TrueBrain>(while I have caches disabled in every way I could find)
15:51<OwenS>vsftpd is ftp done right. Namely, all the socket talking processes are run as an unprivileged user
15:51<OwenS>And as much as possible chrooted
15:51<OwenS>etc
15:51<TrueBrain>if I would run it, it would be in a VERY small VPS anyway :p
15:52<TrueBrain>one thing that still sucks about virtualization, you can't share 1 FS over multiple kernel VMs
15:52-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<TrueBrain>for that linux-vserver still kind of rules
15:52<TrueBrain>oh, I talk too much .. /me goes sit in a corner
15:52-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:52<OwenS>I think vserver actually runs inside Xen, which is kinda fun. If you're mad. Fortunately, I'm not :p
15:53<TrueBrain>vserver runs on all virtualization software, yes
15:53<TrueBrain>but they should invent a FS which allows sharing itself
15:53<TrueBrain>e.g.: no kernel caches :p
15:53<OwenS>It's called ZFS on Solaris
15:53<OwenS>Shares through Zones perfectly
15:53<TrueBrain>via fileserver techniques, that is possible
15:53<TrueBrain>but not with direct links
15:53<TrueBrain>as in: mount /dev/sdb1 /myshare
15:53<TrueBrain>on 2 machines
15:53-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:54<OwenS>Though as all zones share a kernel (Including Linux "branded zones"), thats not surprising
15:54<TrueBrain>(where they both refer to the same block)
15:55<TrueBrain>cool, vbox now support ICH controller
15:55<TrueBrain>ICH6 .. but still
15:55<OwenS>Solaris Linux Branded Zones are cool... A virtual Linux machine running directly under the Solaris kernel...
15:55<TrueBrain>hehe
15:57<TrueBrain>I never found the time to look into ZFS ...
15:57<OwenS>They also acheive native performance because theres no emulation going on
15:57-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
15:57<OwenS>IIRC, one makes a pool using a command like zpool create poolname c0d0s0 c0d1s0 (The c0d0s0 bit is Solaris way of naming disks :P )
15:58-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
15:58<OwenS>Creating a fs is like "zfs create poolname fsname"
15:59<TrueBrain>I hate it, when sites do load, but some images not .. keeping any content from showing :(
15:59<TrueBrain>OwenS: still you can't use those FSes in multiple VMs (running their own kernel :p)
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16:00<OwenS>TrueBrain: True :p
16:00<OwenS>Zones are, in general, superior to VMs though (Unless you need to run a Windows VM :P )
16:00<TrueBrain>when I talk VMs, I need them in all kinds of flavors :)
16:02<TrueBrain>but okay, those Zones are just like linux-vserver
16:02<TrueBrain>and openvz, I guess
16:02<OwenS>No, since they don't run multiple kernels
16:02<TrueBrain>....
16:02<TrueBrain>I think you should readup on linux-vserver now :p
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16:02<OwenS>VServer and OpenVZ run a modified Linux kernel in user space do they not?
16:02<OwenS>Zones can at present do solaris8, solaris9, solaris10, native (== solaris10 on Solaris 10, or OpenSolaris on OpenSolaris, etc), lx24 (AKA Linux 2.4), lx26 (Linux 2.6)
16:02<TrueBrain>vserver and openvz by definition run only one kernel
16:03<TrueBrain>xen, vbox, vmware run kernels for each VM
16:03-!-Timitry [~Timitry@22-92.stw.uni-duisburg.de] has joined #openttd
16:03<TrueBrain>(that is what makes both virtualization techniques different :p)
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16:04<OwenS>VServer looks like Zones but more limited
16:04<TrueBrain>limited how? :)
16:04<OwenS>Can't run separate networking stacks, can't do "kernel brands"
16:05<TrueBrain>vserver really sucks in its networking, but that is about it :)
16:05<OwenS>(Brands being when the kernel pretends it's something else to uerspace)
16:06<OwenS>Solaris can run either a combined or separate networking stack, though the separate requires an interface for each zone (That interface can be a VLan however, for example)
16:07<OwenS>(Separate = Each zone gets it's own routing information)
16:07<TrueBrain>hmm ... creating a 8GB file on my disk is slow today, when I let vbox do it :) Ghehehehehe :)
16:10<TrueBrain>hmm .. IO waits longer than I would like to talk about :)
16:10<TrueBrain>btw, OwenS, is OpenSolaris any good nowedays?
16:11<OwenS>It's definitely not ready for primetime. It comes working and has an OK package selection, but some software is hell to build on it
16:11<OwenS>The default GCC is an ancient 3.4.2; a package is also available for 4.3.2 though. SunStudio compilers are available and generally build better code
16:11<OwenS>Installs GNOME by default; KDE is probably available but I haven't yet checked
16:12<TrueBrain>I couldn't care less about a GUI :)
16:12-!-Nickman87 [~nick.defr@d54C3F29D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<OwenS>If you don't want a GUI you'll have to uninstall it after you install the OS; OpenSolaris seems to be more targetted at a desktop system. I assume Sun assumes sysadmins will keep their servers on Solaris 10 until 11 comes out
16:13<OwenS>OpenSolaris vs Solaris can be compared to Fedora vs RHEL :p
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16:15<TrueBrain>I hate it when you download something, and get something else :(
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>then you should not download music via kazaa
16:18<TrueBrain>that is the worst part: I used a trusted source
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>(disclaimer: i only know kazaa from hearsay)
16:21<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: We believe you....
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>actually. i really never had kazaa on any of my computers
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16:26<frosch123>[22:25] <Eddi|zuHause> actually. i really never had kazaa on any of my computers <- so even your computer is stolen?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>even if the computer was stolen, it would be "mine"
16:28<frosch123>aybabtu
16:28-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>?
16:29<frosch123>isn't "all your bases are belong to us" abbreviated that way?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>quite possibly
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>it's just not a phrase i stumble upon THAT frequently
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i really never used kazaa
16:32<OwenS>=( Now i've goit http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZeroWing open
16:33-!-Audigex [~audigex@78.148.94.156] has joined #openttd
16:33<OwenS>(Which is written entirely in Zero Wingrish...)_
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16:35<frosch123>:)
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>damn, i'm tired today
16:45<TrueBrain>tip: visit your bed :)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm already in there
16:45<TrueBrain>ieuw
16:45<blathijs>TrueBrain: Dunno, I don't use exim for sending mail
16:45<blathijs>not for LDAP users, that is
16:46<TrueBrain>blathijs: I found what was wrong ... salsauthd had everything cached
16:46<TrueBrain>a restart fixed it :)
16:46<blathijs>ah :-)
16:46<blathijs>nice
16:46<TrueBrain>not so nice of that software :p
16:46<TrueBrain>but okay, our 'merges' are not that nice :p
16:47<TrueBrain>for a short while 2 identical users exist with different uids :p
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>what's "ieuw" about a bed?
16:48<TrueBrain>I love the instability of my torrent download (once again) ... 40 mbit/sec for 30 seconds, then 87 kbit/sec ...
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i have that, too... sequences with 300kbit and then back to 60kbit
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>especially the heavily used ones are extremely slow
16:51<OwenS>=/ Mine tended to ramp up to 300kbit/s and stay there for hours
16:52<OwenS>(I havent ran them since the ISP change since the router is still MIA...)
16:52<TrueBrain>MIA .. that is bad, as that means it did work at some point
16:52<TrueBrain>you can't be missing in action, if you never did any action :p
16:52<R0b0t1>Typically I see people's downloading capped by the server, not their connection.
16:53<TrueBrain>oeh, 61 mbit/sec
16:53<TrueBrain>4 more minutes ...
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, my torrent also takes 4 more hours...
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i guess our connections are very alike
16:55<TrueBrain>bah, 67 kbit/sec ...
16:55<OwenS>I shall have to see what speeds I get when I get rtorrent back up
16:55<TrueBrain>apt-get install rtorrent
16:55<TrueBrain>rtorrent
16:55<TrueBrain>sounds easy enough :p
16:56<OwenS>I don't have my 2TB array accessible from here :p
16:56<R0b0t1>:\
16:56<R0b0t1>Overkill for porn, man.
16:56<OwenS>Note the "lack of router" issue :p
16:57<TrueBrain>I haven't seen a good movie all week
16:57<TrueBrain>I should fix that
16:57<OwenS>I watched a bad (Of the "so bad it's hillarious") category on Friday...
16:57<OwenS>R0b0t1: music, TV shows, movies, direct DVD rips, soon: direct BD rips... but no porn :p
16:58<TrueBrain>bdrips .. not many you can store of those on 2 TB :p
16:58<R0b0t1>Suuuuuuure :D
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>i have only watched a handful of movies all year
16:58<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yeah. I expect I'll transcode them. Or perhaps just leave them on the BD :P
16:59<frosch123>hmm, is there a technical reason why that "Ex" guy registers his servers on multiple ports, or is that just some server-list cheating?
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>was that batman movie last year?
16:59<TrueBrain>frosch123: it really is 1 server?
16:59<frosch123>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers <- the same stats, only ports different
17:00<TrueBrain>trunk 'fixes' that problem (unintentional)
17:00<TrueBrain>but yes, this looks a lot like trying to cheat
17:00<TrueBrain>ports are completely random ..
17:00<TrueBrain>maybe he restarted a server unexpected
17:00<TrueBrain>can take 15+ minutes before they disapear from the list
17:01<frosch123>well, i noticed that like 3 days ago :)
17:01<TrueBrain>makes me wonder if there are real clients who are on the server
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>can you perma-ban ips from the masterserver?
17:01<TrueBrain>sure
17:01<OwenS>I so think the server list should ignore punctuation in it's sort :p
17:02<frosch123>OwenS: it sorts by number of clients
17:02<TrueBrain>OwenS: tell me how with MySQL, and I will add it
17:02<OwenS>Heh
17:02<frosch123>and current stable first
17:02<TrueBrain>that for sure
17:02-!-[wito] [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd
17:02<TrueBrain>中国版v2.00 <- lovely server version :p
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>i only recognize the sign for china
17:04<+glx>at least it's explicitely a custom build
17:04<TrueBrain>pff, 13k server-entries ..
17:05<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: could be hiroshima too
17:06<TrueBrain>euh ... Ex has 1993 ip:ports listed in the MS ...
17:06<+glx>中国,...チュウゴク,...(n) (1) China; (2) South-west most region of Honshu; middle of a country; the Hiroshima area (com);
17:06<+glx>版,...バン,...(n) edition (com);
17:07<TrueBrain>I love white squares
17:07<TrueBrain>frosch123: what do you suggest to do against Ex's?
17:07<frosch123>[23:07] <TrueBrain> euh ... Ex has 1993 ip:ports listed in the MS ... <- so he changes ports every five minutes?
17:08<frosch123>TrueBrain: make fun of him
17:08<TrueBrain>all ports between 6000 and 8000
17:08<frosch123>hmm, though it also spams in game list
17:09-!-williham [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:11<TrueBrain>I wonder what the fuck he thinks he is doing ...
17:12<TrueBrain>why rotate ports .. why bind 1 server on multiple ports ...
17:12<Nickman87>night all
17:12<TrueBrain>night Nickman87
17:13<Nickman87>I posted an update of my patch if you are interested TrueBrain ;)
17:13<TrueBrain>Nickman87: sorry, I am not :) As I have no clue what you patch would be doing
17:13<TrueBrain>or what you tried to do :)
17:13<Nickman87>:D
17:13<TrueBrain>sorry :) I stopped developing for OpenTTD long ago :)
17:14<Nickman87>yeah, I thought that :)
17:14<OwenS>I'd personally just add an iptables rule blocking his IP address for spamming the server list :p
17:14<Nickman87>You were active when I first came here though :)
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>glx: is that like "Washington" can reference two dozen different locations?
17:14<Nickman87>saw your anouncement on the forum :)
17:14<TrueBrain>Nickman87: as I said: long ago :p
17:14<Nickman87>but still hangin around? ;)
17:14<TrueBrain>I run openttd.org currently :) Keeps me busy enough :p
17:15-!-sax_ [~sax@88-108-84-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
17:15<Nickman87>the website you mean?
17:15<Nickman87>not only hosting it
17:15<+glx>*websites ;)
17:15<TrueBrain>like centralized user stuff :p
17:15<TrueBrain>compile farm
17:15<TrueBrain>webtranslator
17:15<TrueBrain>you name it :p
17:15<sax_>Hi everyone :)
17:16<TrueBrain>hello sax_ :)
17:16<TrueBrain>Nickman87: oh, and greeting people :p
17:16<sax_>I'm hosting a multiplayer game at the moment, and I want to save it and carry on later...
17:17<TrueBrain>so you should do that :)
17:17<OwenS>You can save and load multiplayer games fine
17:17<sax_>You can?
17:17<sax_>Thanks!
17:17<sax_>The Server page on the wiki is a bit ambiguous.
17:18<frosch123>just passwords are not stored, so after load everyone can join every company
17:18<Nickman87>well, gnight ;)
17:18<sax_>Oh, I see. The page said "it will restart the game in the same way as Start Game and players will then be able to join"...
17:18<sax_>I was worried that meant I'd lose progress.
17:18<sax_>But if it's just companies that's fine.
17:19<sax_>Thanks, TrueBrain, OwenS and Nickman87!
17:19<TrueBrain>yw :)
17:19<TrueBrain>I do expect a cake on monday :)
17:19-!-sax_ [~sax@88-108-84-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:19<Nickman87>me? I just read your question...
17:19<Nickman87>:D
17:19<Nickman87>crazy sax... :D
17:19<TrueBrain>now go to bed Nickman87 :p
17:19<TrueBrain>good night :)
17:19<Nickman87>I will momy...
17:19<Nickman87>:D
17:20<TrueBrain>good boy
17:20<frosch123>also night :)
17:20<Nickman87>:D
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17:54<Monarch1st>any non-bots here?
17:54<@DorpsGek>no
17:55<Monarch1st>didnt think so. i'll try the turing test anyway
17:55<Monarch1st>i go in and out of openttd, and i'm getting into it again, but after a virus zapped my links.
17:57<Monarch1st>i had a link to a great site that taught you how to build all sorts of stations and junctions and the like, but can't find it now
17:57<Yexo>do you know about tt-forums.net?
17:58<Monarch1st>it was similar to owens ttd site, but broader and deeper, covered more stuff
17:58<Yexo>openttdcoop.org?
17:58-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@133.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
17:59<Monarch1st>i found tt-forums but thot this would be faster
17:59<Monarch1st>let me take a look at openttdcoop.org...
18:01<OwenS>Grr... orudge is getting me back now as "owens" highlights me :p
18:01<@orudge>haha
18:01<@orudge>:D
18:03<Monarch1st>...hmm, ottdcoop looks promising. not the exact one i had in mind, but might contain the same stuff with more reading, thanks
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18:26<TrueBrain>bah, osx86 is still an endless try-and-error
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18:40<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:41<PeterT>hello Nite_Owl
18:41<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT
18:41<PeterT>hi
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 24 00:00:07 2009