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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-26

---Logopened Wed Aug 26 00:00:28 2009
00:07-!-tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has joined #openttd
00:10<SirSquid1ess>f ( analog ( S_F_R ) < S_F_R_CAL && analog ( S_F_L ) < S_F_L_CAL ) { stop();
00:10<SirSquid1ess> motor ( M_R, -75);
00:10<SirSquid1ess> motor ( M_L, -25);
00:10<SirSquid1ess> countdown = 5;
00:10<SirSquid1ess> while ( countdown >= 0) {
00:10<SirSquid1ess> countdown--;
00:10<SirSquid1ess> if (analog ( S_R_R ) < S_R_R_CAL || analog ( S_R_L ) < S_R_L_CAL ) {
00:10<SirSquid1ess> stop();
00:10<SirSquid1ess> }
00:10<SirSquid1ess> sleep ( 0.1 );
00:10<SirSquid1ess> }
00:10<SirSquid1ess>dammit
00:10<SirSquid1ess>sorry
00:10<SirSquid1ess>lent on right click =(
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02:26<Terkhen>good morning
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05:40<hron85>Hi
05:40<hron85>i trying using openttd under OSX
05:41<hron85>but it says no AI installed
05:41<hron85>how can i install AI ?
05:41<hron85>I downloaded latest stable
05:43<Terkhen>hron85: "You can download several AIs via the 'Online Content' system."
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>tried the "download AIs here" button?
05:43<hron85>Terkhen: but online content is empty for me. I guess it caused because my firewall allows only port 80
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>@ports
05:44<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
05:44<hron85>that's my problem
05:45<hron85>i cannot open port in fw
05:45<hron85>so, how can i download an ai for me?
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, we cannot help you with configuring your firewall
05:45<hron85>i can configure, but no permission
05:46<hron85>is there any other way to download AI?
05:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes. yüo cam dpwmöpad them from the forum
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>*download
05:48<hron85>Eddi|zuHause: okay, i downloaded. How to install it? Can you point me a link?
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>it must be there also
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>i have never manually installed an AI
05:49<hron85>Place inside your /ai OR /content_download/ai folder
05:49<hron85>but where it is on osx?
05:51-!-Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>where you put your data files
05:53-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
05:53<hron85>and it must be unpacked or not?
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, keep it inside the .tar
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>(.tar files are not compressed)
06:03<hron85>i downloaded all needed libraries and put into ai/libraries, but it says grap.aystar lib not fount. But it already installed.
06:03<hron85>i trying use trans ai
06:04<Terkhen>you are probably missing the correct version of that library, or you are trying to use an AI that requires a nightly to work
06:05<hron85>i tried install version what the page said
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's why you should use the content downloader, it would solve all these dependencies for your
06:05<hron85>but no luck
06:05<hron85>okay, but no http method
06:06<hron85>i think i try older version
06:08<hron85>0.7.0 is not have this feature, well?
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: use openttd on another computer which allows the ports, then copy over the downloaded content from there
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06:24<hron85>Eddi|zuHause: i will try it. In 0.6.3 i cannot change the semaphor type, but i remember i can do it under linux. Is there a difference between linux and osx build?
06:24-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE6ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>no, but in osx, ctrl and cmd might be switched
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06:53<Doorslammer>Hmmm, not sure I like those crossing gate noises on OpenSFX
06:53<Doorslammer>Sounds like someone clinking beer bottles
06:53<TrueBrain>make a better alternative ;)
06:53<Doorslammer>Good plan
06:53*Doorslammer rummages round
06:53<TrueBrain>I am full of those
06:54<Doorslammer>I will say this though
06:54<Doorslammer>Love the way the game is going, keep it up
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07:17<planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> no, but in osx, ctrl and cmd might be switched <-- that depends.
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>hence i said "might"
07:18<planetmaker>but usually one uses CMD for things where win/lin uses ctrl+v for paste etc
07:18<LadyHawk>sorry for the join/quit spam.. trying to sort out some hardware issues i'm having
07:18<planetmaker>or ctrl+w --> cmd+w
07:18<planetmaker>which reminds me. I always wanted to write a patch that cmd+w / ctrl+w leaves the current game, but not OpenTTD
07:22<Doorslammer>Do AI errors dump into a file?
07:24<planetmaker>no
07:24<Doorslammer>Ah
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07:35<Yexo>Doorslammer: all AI output is written to stdout and you can pipe that to a file
07:36<Doorslammer>Ah, gotcha
07:37<Doorslammer>Is it preferred to report in screencap or file form?
07:43-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:44<Yexo>as long as it's readable I doubt anyone cares what form you report it in
07:45<Yexo>Doorslammer: if you report as image, please make the window wider next time so the complete message is readable
07:46<Yexo>SmatZ: looks like your subsidy changes have broken trans ai :p
07:47-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
07:47<Doorslammer>Oh
07:48<Doorslammer>First one, so I dunno
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07:51<SmatZ>Yexo: :(
07:51<SmatZ>to what extent?
07:51<Yexo>it tries to get the StationID from an awarded subsidy, then fails because it isn't a valid stationid
07:51<Yexo>so nothing we can do about it
07:59<planetmaker><Yexo> Doorslammer: all AI output is written to stdout and you can pipe that to a file <-- that works? Nice! :-)
08:00<Yexo>planetmaker: run with -d ai=9 ;)
08:00<planetmaker>oh, ok. So not by default :-)
08:00<Yexo>no, but it's possible
08:00<planetmaker>I didn't think of -d ... I should think more often on it :-)
08:02<Ammler>indeed :-P
08:03<planetmaker>:-P
08:04<Doorslammer>Oh bloody hell
08:04<Doorslammer>Its crashed again
08:06<Doorslammer>Better error pic comin g up
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08:09<Doorslammer>Submitted
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08:20-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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08:31*Belugas yawns and wishes he could go back to sleep
08:31<@Belugas>hello, bythe way
08:31*TrueBrain gives Belugas his nappysack
08:32<@Belugas>mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
08:32<@Belugas>rrrrr
08:32<@Belugas>zzzzz
08:32<@Belugas>rrrrrr
08:32<@Belugas>zzzzzzz
08:32<@Belugas>.......
08:32<LadyHawk>o_O
08:33*LadyHawk jabs Belugas with a teaspoon
08:34<TrueBrain>ieuw
08:37<Doorslammer>Is Trans a fairly new AI?
08:38-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
08:38<@Belugas>\me awakes and feels a urge to retaliate
08:38*Belugas awakes and feels a urge to retaliate
08:38<@Belugas>even
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08:50<SmatZ>hello Terkhen, thanks for your patch for founding a town
08:50<SmatZ>there is a number of "found town" patches
08:50<SmatZ>I have one patch too (for quite some time)
08:51<SmatZ>from my point of view, my patch would be best to include
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08:51<SmatZ>though there is one problem, we are now thinking about reworking the "_prices" struct
08:51<@Belugas>yeah.. and we are a bit torn, since both do have some good points
08:52<SmatZ>eg. the way it works with inflation and (non-)fixed multipliers
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08:54<SmatZ>also, we are discussing a newgrf callback to compute new town price
08:56<planetmaker>hm... how do you envision to link founding towns to newgrfs?
08:56*planetmaker is curious :-)
08:56<planetmaker>oh, and hello Belugas & SmatZ :-)
09:00<@Belugas>prices, planetmaker
09:00<@Belugas>hello planetmaker
09:00<planetmaker>Hm... making all prices accessible via newgrf?
09:00<planetmaker>Hm... are there some which are not?
09:01-!-worldemar [~tsukimiya@188.122.227.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:02<planetmaker>Does that change imply that the / some base costs are per newgrf?
09:02<planetmaker>questions over questions ;-)
09:02<@Belugas>well... i'd say that ALREADY, all base cost are accessible via grf...
09:03<@Belugas>all 49, that is...
09:03<planetmaker>yup, thought so.
09:03<SmatZ>rather some cost multiplier as callback result
09:03<SmatZ>so it can make small towns chaper and big mor eexpensive
09:04<SmatZ>+ static const byte price_mult[][TS_RANDOM + 1] = {{ 15, 25, 40, 25 }, { 20, 35, 55, 35 }};
09:04<SmatZ>it can be too expensive for some
09:04<SmatZ>and too cheap for others
09:04<planetmaker>:-) as usual
09:05<SmatZ>also, with frosch's patch, base prices wouldn't need to be stored in savegame at all
09:05<planetmaker>he... I don't know his patch, I guess
09:05<SmatZ>it's not written yet
09:05<SmatZ>it's being discussed
09:06<TrueBrain>so it is not a patch yet :p :p
09:06*TrueBrain runs :)
09:06<planetmaker>:-) Always good to discuss things - at least a bit - in advance
09:06<planetmaker>I cannot say, I'm not curious about that discussion ;-)
09:07<SmatZ>I suppose there will be threads at tt-forums :)
09:07<planetmaker>:-)
09:07<TrueBrain>I miss the patch-maillist :(
09:09<planetmaker>sometimes it'd be nice / interesting
09:10<SmatZ>actually frosch has some patch, so my statement was false :)
09:11<TrueBrain>and so mine too :'(
09:11<@Belugas>patch-maillist had some good points, but it became hard to follow full time
09:12<TrueBrain>Belugas: the trick is that you don't need to want to follow all ;)
09:12<@Belugas>and i remember it was almost like : here's my patch. how come it's not commited already? if i cahnge this, will it be? and so one...
09:13<SmatZ>why can't FS be used for that?
09:13<TrueBrain>SmatZ: difference between push and pull
09:13<TrueBrain>in FS I can't mark what I have read and what not
09:13<SmatZ>true
09:14<TrueBrain>when I worked a bit on ffmpeg, I loved the dev maillist
09:14<TrueBrain>all patches people send it came through
09:14<TrueBrain>gave a good overview .. also good comments from developers
09:15<SmatZ>hmm just received spam to my @openttd.org address :(
09:15<TrueBrain>it is rare, but it happens :)
09:15<TrueBrain>currently the average interval is 43 minutes between a computer which just got infected, and the spam-filter to react on it
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09:16<SmatZ>:)
09:16<SmatZ>my brother had infected computer for several days
09:16<SmatZ>maybe even longer
09:16<SmatZ>we didn't get any warning from our ISP
09:17<TrueBrain>that is _very_ bad
09:17<planetmaker>hehe :-) I guess you were missing an "an". He didn't really do it actively? ;-)
09:17<SmatZ>I just noticed the internet was very slow... because of the spam upload rate using all bw :-p
09:17<SmatZ>planetmaker: hehe, true :)
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09:31<+glx>grr OSX in vmware is slow (but a little faster than in pearpc)
09:34<Terkhen>sorry, I was not here
09:34*Terkhen reads
09:40<Terkhen>SmatZ: I didn't knew that you were working in this feature too, I'd like to check it if that's possible :)
09:42<Terkhen>I do a lot of changes around the _prices structure (I don't remember right now, but I think I even had to move it to a header file)
09:44<SmatZ>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/found_town_17288.diff updated to trunk (I hope)
09:44-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
09:44<Terkhen>thanks :)
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10:02<TrueBrain>netbeans keeps on 'crashing' ...
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10:03<TrueBrain>grrr
10:03<Terkhen>mmm... I can't try it ingame: the found a town window doesn't appear
10:04<Terkhen>about the code: besides code changes and different ways of implementing some parts of the code, the most important differences are that my version don't allow building towns of different sizes and that your version don't alters the _prices structure at all since it uses the price for industries
10:06<@Belugas>yup
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10:08<Terkhen>I don't know what implementation for founding town price is best (I don't know enough about that part of the code), but I don't think that building towns of any size should be allowed... IMO it is like allowing to build industries with custom production values
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10:14<SmatZ>hmm yes
10:14<Terkhen>oh, sorry: the window did not appear because the setting was off
10:14<Terkhen>I am used to assume that if the setting is off the option won't appear at the dropdown menu
10:15<SmatZ>+ t->founder = INVALID_COMPANY;
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10:15<SmatZ>Terkhen: you could simplify your code bu setting this in Town::Town()
10:15<SmatZ>hmm yeah
10:16<SmatZ>that probably broke while updating over 500 revisions
10:17<@Belugas>mmh... did not though of layout specifying in that way... indeed... problematic...
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10:17<Terkhen>that's true, I'll check that simplification later
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10:19<SmatZ>anyway, patch updated
10:20<Terkhen>I see that you can't select large towns... if they are out of the options, allowing different sizes is not that problematic
10:25<[com]buster>UI question: is there any keyboard shortcut to select something from the advanced signal window (like toggling signal conversion or switching the default between block and path signals)
10:26<@Belugas>don't think there is. watching
10:26<[com]buster>I'll file a feature request if it isnt :)
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10:27<TrueBrain>I HATE PHP! If you have an array like {'a' => 'b', 'c' => 'd'}, how do I remove ['a'] from that array? (or rather: table)
10:27<SmatZ>[com]buster: please suggest keys you would like to use
10:28<SmatZ>TrueBrain: it's not possible? something like null doesn't exist?
10:28<[com]buster>since S is the signal shortcut
10:28<TrueBrain>assigning it to null doesn't remove it
10:28<[com]buster>shift+s/ctrl+s
10:28<SmatZ>[com]buster: ctrl+s is screnshot
10:28<TrueBrain>unset :s :s :s
10:28<SmatZ>hehe
10:28<Terkhen>SmatZ: what do you think about the town renaming feature?
10:29<SmatZ>Terkhen: I planned to include some "you can choose town name when founding it" feature
10:29<Terkhen>aha
10:29<SmatZ>it could be used it SE too
10:30<Terkhen>SE?
10:30<SmatZ>it would be probably placed in the Found Town window
10:30<SmatZ>scen edit
10:30<SmatZ>so you could "randomise better name" while founding a town
10:30<SmatZ>or choose one manually
10:30<Terkhen>sounds good
10:30<@Belugas>[com]buster :no key assigned. You'd better come up with a logical scheme and NOT ALREADY USED ;)
10:31<[com]buster>I'm trying things
10:31<[com]buster>I think you can reuse the C key
10:32<[com]buster>to convert signals other than rail when the dialog is open
10:33<SmatZ>good :)
10:33-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@158.140.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:33<SmatZ>[com]buster: thinking about the GUI, I dislike the "convert signal" button...
10:33<SmatZ>because you can't build new signals when it's active
10:34<[com]buster>I don't think it's optimal either
10:34<[com]buster>because you usually want to cycle between block signals and path signals separately
10:35<[com]buster>(new feature request: ctrl+click through signals of same type
10:36<Terkhen>well, I don't know what to do with this either... besides the mentioned differences both patches are mostly the same (I have a complete GUI, but that could be reused without problems... and your idea for names is better than what I implemented)
10:36<[com]buster>btw shift+s appears free to me
10:36<[com]buster>you can use that to cycle signal types
10:36<[com]buster>at the cost of confusing those sad players who want to flip between semaphores
10:38*[com]buster has a idea for redesign
10:38*Belugas wonders about the usefullness of having keys assigned to buttons in a gui window used for placing signals on the map...
10:38<[com]buster>I can build very fast by using the keyboard shortcuts
10:39<[com]buster>(Only annoyed that the V button is so close to the B button)
10:39<@Belugas>can't you buy even faster not using the signal gui?
10:39<@Belugas>build
10:41<[com]buster>not when I have to keep toggling between block and path signals
10:41<[com]buster>its faster to move the entire mouse to the gui and switch the default
10:41<[com]buster>then build path signals with one click
10:41<[com]buster>instead of 4 clicks
10:42<[com]buster>(5)
10:45<@Belugas>mmmmmh
10:46*Doorslammer is utterly fed up of Trans crahsing all the time
10:46<Yexo>Doorslammer: either use openttd 0.7.2 or use a different AI
10:46<@Belugas>doorslammer should use De
10:47<Doorslammer>Dunno how to switch that one off
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10:52<planetmaker><[com]buster> because you usually want to cycle between block signals and path signals separately <--- but not me :-P
10:56<planetmaker>but keyboard shortcuts to switch to a particular signal type would be handy. But I didn't find a good selection of keys
10:57<[com]buster>new (patch) feature idea: place path signals instead of semaphores by ctrl+clicking signals
10:57<planetmaker>don't change existing behaviour ;-)
10:57<[com]buster>*patch* feature
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10:58<SmatZ>[16:36:19] <Terkhen> well, I don't know what to do with this either... besides the mentioned differences both patches are mostly the same (I have a complete GUI, but that could be reused without problems... and your idea for names is better than what I implemented) <=== but it's an idea now :)
10:58<SmatZ>not implemented
10:59<SmatZ>I haven't found a way how to make it working with the new widget system yet
10:59<SmatZ>and I want to prevent rewriting the code in near future
10:59<SmatZ>but Alberth is not here to ask...
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11:03<Terkhen>I already talked with him about it... I finally got a working solution, but since It needs to hide widgets and that's still not implemented, I had to hide them manually (check the UpdateWidgetSize function)
11:04<Terkhen>that way of implementing hide widgets would probably need to be rewritten, yes
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11:51*Belugas yawns and streches
11:51*Belugas picks up his lunch box and starts fiddling with food
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11:59<@petern>hurr
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12:07<TrueBrain>Belugas: sounds nasty :p
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12:15<@Belugas>well... lack of appetite, maybe...
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12:18<@petern>jam?
12:21<@Belugas>might help, indeed
12:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17289 /trunk/bin/ai/compat_0.7.nut: -Fix (r17214): for AIs it's STATION_INVALID, not INVALID_STATION
12:33<@Belugas>let me pick my air guitar and my air zoom and at the count of 3, we'll start
12:33<@Belugas>1
12:33<@Belugas>2
12:33<@Belugas>3
12:33<TrueBrain>false start
12:33<TrueBrain>try again
12:33<@Belugas>3
12:33<@Belugas>3
12:33*petern air keyboards
12:33<@Belugas>3
12:34<@Belugas>i can hear it, man!
12:34<@Belugas>ho... wait... it's a recording :S
12:34<+glx>ha finally macports can compile stuff
12:34<TrueBrain>glx: nice progress :)
12:34<TrueBrain>which version?
12:35<+glx>macports 1.7.1 on osx 10.4.8
12:35<TrueBrain>nice nice nice :)
12:35<TrueBrain>10.5 you couldn't get installed? :p
12:36<+glx>the one I tried gave me kernel panic on dvd boot
12:36<+glx>(and it used voodoo 9.5.0)
12:36<TrueBrain>sad
12:36<+glx>probably because vmware
12:36<TrueBrain>I wish vmware wouldn't crash on our server .. it did last time anyway :p
12:38<TrueBrain>like the latest vbox for that matter .... but that we all experienced :p
12:39-!-elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #openttd
12:39<+glx>btw it's slow and eats a core
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12:39<TrueBrain>how slow is slow? :p
12:40<TrueBrain>unworkable slow?
12:40-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejf52.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
12:40<+glx>but at least it has better net and dvd support than pearpc
12:40<+glx>it's usable
12:40<+glx>like windows on a PII 233 :)
12:40<TrueBrain>let me know if you know compile-times :)
12:41<+glx>for nom I'm doing "sudo port install subversion" :)
12:42<+glx>*now
12:42<+glx>anyway the slower phase is still configure ;)
12:43<+glx>worse than on msys
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12:44<+glx>slow disk access I think
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12:44<TrueBrain>did you install any guest software?
12:44<+glx>like vmware tools ?
12:44<TrueBrain>yes
12:44<+glx>I need to upgrage iconv first :)
12:45<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
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12:53<+glx>apr configure done :)
12:53<+glx>(it's the first dep for subversion)
12:54<TrueBrain>sigh: /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.23/work/vmmon-only/./include/compat_wait.h:78: error: conflicting types for 'poll_initwait'
12:54<TrueBrain>sometimes I hate applications
12:58<TrueBrain>not kernel 2.6.29+ ready .. sigh ...
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that like three versions ago?
12:59<TrueBrain>portage is moving fast these days ... last week I did a complete world compile, now I have 32 new packages ...
13:03<@Belugas>mmh?
13:03<@Belugas>would'nt it be easier to compile the internet instead of the world?
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>just compile the universe, that typically includes both the world and the internet
13:07-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@133.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
13:07<SmatZ>TrueBrain: I am starting to dislike gentoo/nvidia
13:07<SmatZ>because they are forcing new xorg
13:08<SmatZ>and old (GF2 and GF4MX and older) nvidia cards' driver's don't support it
13:13<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I dislike linux and nvidia
13:13<TrueBrain>gave up on it LONG ago :p
13:14<Xaroth>like linux and ATI is any better...
13:14<SmatZ>it should be getting better
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>it was getting better here, until they discontinued support for my graphics card
13:15<SmatZ>:-/
13:15<SmatZ>you can wait until the opensource driver works :)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>last time i tried, it was lacking 3d acceleration
13:19<@petern>the nv driver works...
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13:27<DJNekkid>does anyone know how Var2 variable DA works?
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>do the specs not tell you this?
13:29<frosch123>end of chain?
13:30<frosch123>better use the position from back variable
13:30<DJNekkid>ok... then i cant use it for what i hoped
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14:26<TrueBrain># kiss me
14:28<@petern># touch a touch a touch me
14:29<TrueBrain>it is funny, revrebuild keeps telling me I should rebuild xulrunner to fix a dep, but .. how ever many times I try, it never works :)
14:32<frosch123>you are doing it manually?
14:32<TrueBrain>no, the @preserved-rebuild
14:34<frosch123>why not just let revdep-rebuild issue the emerge?
14:34<TrueBrain>euh ... this is emerge :p
14:34<TrueBrain>only a newer version :p It has sets, one of them doing what revdep-rebuild normally did :p
14:35<frosch123>so, it does not work yet? :p
14:35<TrueBrain>it does, but it fails to fix one package :)
14:35<TrueBrain>which .. most likely is fully my fault :)
14:35<frosch123>oh, in that case
14:36<TrueBrain>btw, about sets, you now also have @installed, as @world (the old 'world') does not always update all packages
14:37<frosch123>so @world means --deep world
14:37<TrueBrain>no, means world :p
14:37<TrueBrain>@ means 'set'
14:37<TrueBrain>like @kde4
14:38<frosch123>i don't have kde4
14:38<TrueBrain>completely besides the point, don't you think?
14:38<frosch123>but i had no other response at hand
14:39<TrueBrain>then it is better to ssstttttt :p
14:42<TrueBrain>I am bored
14:44<TrueBrain>ah, my preserved deps are down to only IcedTeaPlugin :)
14:45<frosch123>does it also have some fancy new replacement for python_updater ?
14:46<TrueBrain>nope ...
14:46<TrueBrain>Starting Python Updater from 3.1 to 2.6 : <- euh .. what now? :)
14:49<Xaroth>TrueBrain: yer time traveling?
14:52<@Belugas>Iced tea? no thanks. Hot COFFEE!!!
14:52<@Belugas>please
14:52<@petern>jam!
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14:54<@Belugas>i sense a subliminal message...
14:56<TrueBrain>lol, friend of mine calls, I was late to pick up .. I call back, she doens't pick up :p
14:56<TrueBrain>I wonder how often this action will repeat itself this night :p
14:57<@Belugas>up until you send roses with a message "I'm sorry"
14:57<DJNekkid>probably 3.1 BC to 2.6 AC
14:59<planetmaker>how / where is var action2, variable 1C set? Is that the the setID chosen in the preceeding varaction2 or the last value of the decision-based variable in that preceeding varaction2?
14:59<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VariationalAction2
15:00<planetmaker>I'm simply unable to find that piece of information in the newgrf wiki... but that might be me.
15:02<frosch123>var 1c is the result of the last varaction2. i.e. the value your sets and ranges decide on
15:02<frosch123>don't ask me about its value after a procdure call
15:03<frosch123>but you can e.g. make a range [123..456] chain to some action2 which then multiplies the value (something between 123 and 456) by two and returns that one
15:04<DJNekkid>i still dont think it will help us too much planetmaker... as we dont know if the two consists are symetric...
15:05<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, and i remember some example on the wiki showing how to base a decision on both the current and the related object using var 1c
15:05<planetmaker>frosch123: so it's the value the decision is based upon. But not the set-ID which was chosen?
15:06<frosch123>yes
15:06<planetmaker>frosch123: that's something which I just try to somehow get stitched together :-)
15:06<frosch123>setid would be quite useless, wouldn't it?
15:06<planetmaker>DJNekkid: I know, but that's something I don't need
15:06<planetmaker>frosch123: well... depends how it's used :-P
15:07<frosch123>is there a case which you could not solve using a preprocessor?
15:07<frosch123>as it would be setid of currently active varaction2
15:08<DJNekkid>it's the TVG-problem frosch123:)
15:09*frosch123 knows TGVs and TSP-problems
15:10<TrueBrain>Belugas: there is an idea
15:10<@Belugas>jam? yeah... big time
15:10<@Belugas>a jam of roses
15:10<@Belugas>even more
15:10<TrueBrain>haha
15:10<TrueBrain># From yesterday!!!
15:11<frosch123>InitializeLandscapeVariables() must have a great history
15:11<TrueBrain>believe me, my neighbours do NOT enjoy me today
15:11<TrueBrain>my window is wide open, and my music is passed his 'safe' level :p
15:12-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:12<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:15<Alberth>hello Nite_Owl
15:16<Nite_Owl>Hello Alberth
15:16<TrueBrain>hello Nite_Owl
15:16<TrueBrain>hello Alberth
15:16<Nite_Owl>Hello TrueBrain
15:17<Alberth>hello TrueBrain
15:17<Alberth>TrueBrain: enjoying the evening? :)
15:17<TrueBrain>I am always :)
15:17<TrueBrain>a game called 'AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!!'
15:17<TrueBrain>that has to be good
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15:57<planetmaker>Hm, I'm somehow unable to find proper documentation on variables 81/82. Any pointers more specifically than newgrf wiki?
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15:58<Lakie>Define lack of proper documentation, planetmaker?
15:58<Lakie>I thought the wiki had up to date information on almost all newgrf details, minus possibly some OpenTTD specifics.
15:58<frosch123>planetmaker: stop exploring 80+x variables :p
15:59<Lakie>Oh those
15:59<Lakie>Meh
15:59<planetmaker>:-) a description like I e.g. have in http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Vehicles for 40,41,...
15:59<Lakie>They are just the array entries data.
15:59<Lakie>Too impractical to list them all. ;)
15:59<SmatZ>http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html ?
15:59<frosch123>planetmaker: i'll give you a general description for all 80+x variables: they are deprecated variables from ttd, which sometimes get new meanings in ttdp or ottd or both
15:59<planetmaker>SmatZ: I was there... I find that... uhm, disturbing to find my way :-)
16:00<Yexo>planetmaker: if you're only interested in those implemented by OpenTTD the openttd source code is the best documentation imo
16:00<planetmaker>frosch123: ah... hm... what do I use then?
16:00<Lakie>A text editor to view the source code?
16:00<frosch123>planetmaker: what do you want to do with that information, isn't it pointless anyway?
16:01<planetmaker>:-)
16:01<Lakie>I thought most weren't all that useful only ones listed on the wiki.
16:01<planetmaker>Well. I want to know if the preceeding or following vehicle in a consist is an engine (part) :-)
16:01<Lakie>Um.
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16:01<frosch123>planetmaker: there is no way to access the following or preceding vehicle
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16:01<planetmaker>as the gfx decision is based on that... - or shall be.
16:01<Lakie>I don't know if its different for OpenTTD, but in TTDPatch it doesn't store the vehicle infront
16:02<planetmaker>hm... :S
16:02<Lakie>As for next one there is a pointer, but that isn't very useful to grf code. ;)
16:02<planetmaker>:-D
16:02<frosch123>you can use the variables for chain of consecutive vehicles with same id
16:03<Lakie>Variable 41?
16:03<planetmaker>yes, but I want to consider a more general train like 1 2223322 1
16:03<planetmaker>where 1=engine and 2,3 = different wagons
16:03<planetmaker>and I want the first and last wagon to have different graphics
16:03<SmatZ>:)
16:03<planetmaker>e.g. those adjacent to the engine
16:04<planetmaker>so my thinking was to get the current position, add/subtract one and test the vehicle ID
16:04<SmatZ>but not those next to wagon3
16:05<planetmaker>SmatZ: exactly. Only adjacent to 1
16:05<planetmaker>even more difficult a train could, of course, also look like 1 2223233 1 1 33222232 1
16:06<planetmaker>where I then have four such cases :-)
16:06<frosch123>planetmaker: you can only make 2 and 3 the same vehicle, which are either automatically alternated or you can refit between them
16:07<frosch123>e.g. using cargo suffix
16:07<planetmaker>if 2=3, then var 41 would help in the first train, but in the 2nd it would fail for the middle engines
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16:07<planetmaker>frosch123: yes, DJNekkid told me so :-)
16:08<planetmaker>But I like to be able to build PAX, mail and valuable wagons directly in order to allow easier mixing :-)
16:08<frosch123>[22:08] <planetmaker> if 2=3, then var 41 would help in the first train, but in the 2nd it would fail for the middle engines <- why?
16:08<Lakie>Because he doesn't want transitions between 2 and 3 to have different graphics.
16:08<planetmaker>hm, I guess I'd find the last one in the middle then, too. True
16:09<planetmaker>yes, that was me mixing things up again ;-)
16:09<planetmaker>that'll work then.
16:10<Lakie>So long as they are all the same id, 41 would work quite happily.
16:10<planetmaker>yup.
16:10<planetmaker>But that makes building mixed trains a pain.
16:11<planetmaker>hm... seems like I have the choice between "make mixing mail/pax/valuables painful for the player" and "make graphics such that gfx don'd depend upon distance from engine"
16:12<Lakie>The only other way would be to implement a system to traverse the consist but I don't think thats a good idea. So basically yeah, pain or simple.
16:13<frosch123>the second other way would be to implement vehicle classes, like house classes
16:14<planetmaker>uh-oh. Both doesn't sound like a light-weight operation
16:14*Lakie doesn't really know how houses exist so he'll lurk now.
16:14<Lakie>Oh, wait.
16:14<Lakie>You mean a class system?
16:14*planetmaker doesn't either... but hopes to have some light shed on it :-)
16:14<DJNekkid>"<frosch123> planetmaker: you can only make 2 and 3 the same vehicle, which are either automatically alternated or you can refit between them" ... thats what i want as well, but planetmaker want it to be 2 or 3 different wagons (pax-mail-armor)
16:14<Lakie>You have a major class and then ids belonging to a class?
16:14<@Belugas>yeah, with black board, apples, desks and all...
16:15<Lakie>Hi J-F.
16:15<planetmaker>DJNekkid: yes, we discussed that :-P You won
16:15-!-[wito] [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16<frosch123>Lakie: e.g. house var 44
16:16<@Belugas>Nathaniel, I salute you respectfully
16:17<Lakie>Hows work going, Belugas?
16:17-!-Runr [~Runr@154.0.erx-lhm.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd
16:17<DJNekkid>and changeing the gfx depending on its cargoclass is easy, that i've already tested...
16:18-!-[wito] [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd
16:18<@Belugas>when returning from vacations? as usual... hellish!
16:18<Lakie>Isn't that just testing its refit cycle?
16:18<Lakie>Hehe
16:18<Runr>I've got a quick question regarding stations: do they load more/faster the closer they are to the source?
16:18<Lakie>Well, you have catching up on work at that point, Belugas. :(
16:18<@petern>refitting Belugas' vacation?
16:18<@petern>Runr, no
16:19<Runr>So it doesn't matter how far away it is, as long as it's within the range?
16:19<Lakie>They load based of the vehicles load rates?
16:19<DJNekkid>planetmaker: i won?
16:20<DJNekkid>so, we only need 1 MU-wagon now? :D:D
16:20<DJNekkid>(:p)
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16:20<planetmaker>doesn't seem possible. :S
16:20<planetmaker>hehe
16:20<planetmaker>yet another grf parameter :-P
16:21-!-tokai [~tokai@p5B2B36E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22<@Belugas>Lakie, basically, catching up with the freaking usual promises of things that are in the software, but the one that is going to be released in 10 years from now
16:22<@Belugas>and of courser to be delivered all at once next week
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17290 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 44 changes by lorenzodv
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 21 changes by mtxd
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 6 changes by CyberKenny
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
16:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: serbian - 45 changes by etran
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16:23-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
16:23*TrueBrain pets WT3 .. better late then never :)
16:24<Lakie>Sounds about right for software engineering, Belugas.
16:24<Lakie>:(
16:25<@petern>i had a good question today
16:25<TrueBrain>once again I lost my xfce4-desktop ...
16:25<@petern>how do our parking pay & display systems connect to us
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16:26<@petern>obvious answer is... "what parking pay & display systems? we do internet payments..."
16:26<Lakie>Hehe
16:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17291 /trunk/src/ (base_media_func.h network/network_content_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3147]: crash after upgrading base graphics/sound set when opening the game options menu and you were using the upgraded set
16:28<@Belugas>that shows how well marketing and sales department are getting along with customers... same level of "high quality standard"
16:28<@Belugas>buwahahahah!!!
16:30<gathers>Anyone working on timetables? I'm trying to improve the auto-separation patch a little to make it even more automatic.
16:31<+glx>yeah one more lib compiled \o/ (it's slowwwwwwww)
16:31<TrueBrain>glx: it is _very_ slow :p
16:32<+glx>maybe db46 is very big :)
16:32<TrueBrain>not the smallest, but still :p
16:33<+glx>expat seems faster (configure already done)
16:34<@Belugas>gathers, not among the devs, for sure. apart those courageous guys, your guess is as good as mine
16:35<@Rubidium>compiling libdb4.6 takes ~8 hours on armel, openttd ~2 hours... so if you're going to compile an universal binary it'll be roughly as fast as the db46 compile
16:35<+glx>http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/osx-vmware.png
16:36<@Rubidium>although... libdb4.6 on i386 takes 30 minutes whereas it takes 4 for OTTD
16:37*TrueBrain joins all glx' channels :p
16:37<TrueBrain>glx: top: 30%
16:37<gathers>Belugas, ok, perhaps I'll try the forums then. was hoping someone might be here that I could just dump my patch onto :P
16:37<TrueBrain>lol
16:38<TrueBrain>maybe you need to stop top :p
16:38<@Rubidium>igor! :)
16:38<+glx>with it or not it still slow :)
16:38<TrueBrain>glx: but I am truly impressed it runs at all!
16:39<+glx>and it's way better than 10.3.9 in pearpc
16:39*OwenS gets curios as to glx presence in "#millenium-staff" and "#millenium-team" as an op...
16:39<TrueBrain>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=44895 <- took longer than expect :)
16:40<+glx>the real problem is probably missing vmware video driver
16:41<+glx>OwenS: why ?
16:41<OwenS>No reason in particular. Just interesting :p
16:42<OwenS>Or would be if A) It wasn't french B) It did anything which interested me :p
16:43*Belugas is reluctant to leave his seat to home
16:44<@Belugas>but i guess i should overcome that reluctance and jusst... RUN!!!!!
16:44<@Belugas>night
16:44<TrueBrain>night Belugas
16:44<Lakie>Night Belugas.
16:44<@Belugas>you too mister
16:44<+glx>expat compiled and installed, so it can be fast :)
16:44<@Belugas>make that misters
16:45<+glx>hmm now ncursew :( (this one will takes time I think)
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16:49<OwenS>Yet another reason SourceForge sucks: "By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through SourceForge.net, you grant COMPANY a worldwide, non-exclusive, irrevocable, perpetual, fully sublicensable, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, create derivative works from, publish, perform, display, rent, resell and distribute such Content (in whole or part) on SourceForge.net and incorporate
16:49<OwenS>Content in other works, in any form, media, or technology developed by COMPANY, though COMPANY is not required to incorporate Feedback into any COMPANY products or services. COMPANY reserves the right to syndicate Content submitted, posted or displayed by you on or through SourceForge.net and use that Content in connection with any service offered by COMPANY". Or, in other words, "everything you submit to our servers which you
16:50<OwenS>own we can do whatever we want with"
16:50<OwenS>flaah at message splitting
16:50<OwenS>and Konversation not warning...
16:50<TrueBrain>OwenS: GoogleCode is no difference
16:50<TrueBrain>I am suprised you are suprised
16:51<OwenS>All the more reason for one to self host :p
16:51<TrueBrain>absolutely
16:51<TrueBrain>if you want your code to be 100% yours, don't share it at all!
16:56<R0b0t1>Ok
16:56<R0b0t1>If they didn't include the selling part, that'd be ok.
16:56<R0b0t1>But they do.
16:56<OwenS>Quite simply, I disagree with the assertion that SourceForge should get extra rights to code they host simply through being it's host
16:56<R0b0t1>^
16:57<OwenS>...Not that it particularly matters when my code is under the X11 license anyway I don't know :P
16:57<OwenS>(Neither is it on SourceForge)
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17:09<TrueBrain>glx: suprising enough, I can get to the install in ESXi with 10.5 .. will see if it can finish the install
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17:11<TrueBrain>lol, it thinks the disk is an external device ...
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17:35<TrueBrain>http://www.efi-x.com/ <- would that be anything near useful?
17:35<TrueBrain>(sorry about the BAD website)
17:35<TrueBrain>glx: how long did installing took you? Here it currently says 2 hours :p
17:36<+glx>can't remember
17:36<+glx>but 2 hours seems accurate :)
17:36<TrueBrain>hehe
17:36<TrueBrain>sucks ....
17:37<TrueBrain>I remember natively it installed much faster .. like 15 minutes or something
17:37<+glx>but for me it's probably because virtual HDD
17:38<+glx>(and fragmentation)
17:38<TrueBrain>well, at least it is running ... no guarantee it will run after installing, but it does more then it ever did :p
17:38<TrueBrain>I should copy the official .iso I have from my linux to my windows OS, so I can try that too .. now I am trying Leopard :p
17:39<+glx>if it's not an amd cpu, official version may work :)
17:39<TrueBrain>it is AMD, but I can bootstrap a voodoo kernel
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18:02<TrueBrain>EFI-X costs about 200 euro :s
18:02<TrueBrain>auch!
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18:05<Xaroth>wtf is it anyways?
18:05<Xaroth>all i see is some crappy joomla site
18:05<KingJ>Emulates an EFI bios so you can run OSX on your system
18:05-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.14.207.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
18:05<Xaroth>ew
18:05<TrueBrain>emulate .. it IS a EFI BIOS :p
18:06<TrueBrain>but specific it .. euh .. does what OSX wants from it, and OSX instant thinks it runs on a real Mac :p
18:06<TrueBrain>still requires you to have Intel with SSE2 and SSE3, if I understand this correctly :)
18:06<Prof_Frink>...until the next update to OSX.
18:06<TrueBrain>of course bootstrapping a voodoo-kernel solves that ;)
18:06<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: good thing about EFI, you can patch it ;)
18:08<Prof_Frink>Pfft, they'll just measure the local RDF flux density to see if it's a real mac.
18:08<TrueBrain>there now even is a SMC emulator :)
18:09<TrueBrain>you no longer have to hack the kext to use a few essential drivers :)
18:10<TrueBrain>glx: the installer is currently not limited by memory or disk ..
18:10<TrueBrain>not even CPU ..
18:10<TrueBrain>dunno what is holding it back :p
18:11<andythenorth>Rubidium: did anything get concluded on x/y text offsets? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43949
18:11<andythenorth>After dismissing it all as crazy talk, suddenly I might have found a valid use case (embarrassed)
18:12<TrueBrain>lol, I have crash reports ... (when looking at the installation log)
18:12<TrueBrain>it tried to access 0x200 (memory-access)
18:12<TrueBrain>that caused a SIGBUS .. no shit ..
18:14<TrueBrain>k ... friday or something I will try to install OSX on my intel machine here .. I now have enough shit to possible make it through :p
18:14<TrueBrain>for now: night all!
18:16<Nite_Owl>later TrueBrain
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18:29<@Rubidium>andythenorth: it's 'kinda' supported, but graphics bugs caused by it will be blamed on the NewGRF
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18:31<andythenorth>Rubidium: thanks. I need to try and solve this problem: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=813231#p813231
18:32<@Rubidium>there are (or were?) idea to make the text start after the widest sprite
18:32<@Rubidium>however, it's not implemented and it'll break anyone that hacks it with SETX
18:33<andythenorth>hmm. text after widest sprite would be more sane. And (I guess) less code for every sprite in the newgrf.
18:34<@Rubidium>however, currently it might be causing havoc with RTL texts
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18:36<@Rubidium>like the strings being x pixels from the right edge and overflowing more over the vehicle sprites
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18:37<andythenorth>ok so I guess I use SETX then?
18:41<R0b0t1>SEXT.
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19:04<SmatZ>.... 2 hours 32 minutes phone with girlfriend ...
19:04<SmatZ>is that normal?
19:05<R0b0t1>Perhaps.
19:05<Xaroth>yes
19:05<R0b0t1>I unno, I don't talk very well. I just end up listening to people.
19:05<@Rubidium>2 minutes "heh, how was your day" and the rest "you hang up first(, no you hang up first)*"
19:05<SmatZ>hehehe
19:06<@Rubidium>always useful if people leave before getting the question answered
19:07<@Rubidium>degraded English is brought to you by sleep; get it for free, everyday, everywhere. Get it NOW! :)
19:07<SmatZ>:o)
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19:22<MyCatVerbs>SmatZ: no, that's terrible.
19:22<MyCatVerbs>Bloody travesty.
19:22<SmatZ>hehe
19:23<MyCatVerbs>Both get VOIP clients instead, it'll be cheaper and you'll get better sound quality.
19:23<MyCatVerbs>I mean really, SmatZ. Using phones, in this day and age? Tut tut.
19:23<SmatZ>:'-(
19:23<SmatZ>I need a wireless voip phone then
19:25<Xaroth>skype + headset?
19:26<@petern>isn't that still... a phone?
19:26<Xaroth>what, skype?
19:28<@Belugas>burp
19:28*petern burps as requested
19:30<MyCatVerbs>petern: well, it fulfills the same need as a phone, sure.
19:30<MyCatVerbs>But VOIP services don't all clip at ~8kHz in order to save bandwidth because your telco are cheap bastards. :)
19:31<@petern>well, no, skype is malware
19:32<R0b0t1>orly?
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19:33<@petern>and phone lines generally only have frequency response up to 4kHz because... well, that's all that's needed, and phone lines can be long
19:35<MyCatVerbs>petern: whether Skype is malware or not is not that much of a problem. There are plenty of alternatives.
19:36<MyCatVerbs>Hell, if you really can't stand the idea of running Ekiga then go buy a copy of Half-Life, start a deathmatch listen server, have everyone else join and everyone binds a key to +voice.
19:36<MyCatVerbs>Instant conference call, with guns! ^_^
19:37<R0b0t1>XD
19:38<@petern>ekiga's fine by me
19:38<@petern>although i happen to have a hardware voip phone, so i'd use that
19:38<MyCatVerbs>HLDM is more fun, though. :)
19:39<MyCatVerbs>petern: By which you mean a SIPphone, or something else?
19:39<@petern>not when it's mostly 11 year olds with squeaky voices playing who you didn't want to talk to in the first place
19:39<@petern>i mean a hardware voip phone
19:41<MyCatVerbs>Do you mean something that works with various difference services or a device specifically for one provider?
19:41<@petern>it's a generic device, yes
19:41<+glx>I just use the phone plugged on the freebox
19:42<R0b0t1>I use... a phone.
19:42<MyCatVerbs>I was under the impression that all the generic VOIP phones used SIP?
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>i don't use phones
19:42<MyCatVerbs>(Hence the nickname 'SIPphone'.) If that's ignorance on my part then please correct me.
19:42<@petern>well this one is a cisco, so it can run sip or sccp
19:44<MyCatVerbs>Oh, neat. I hadn't heard of sccp before.
19:46<@petern>it's more for a "pbx that happens to use IP" system
19:47<@petern>but it is "generic" in that you're not locked to some telco provider
19:47<@petern>and asterisk can talk it, of course ;)
19:49<MyCatVerbs>Now that last bit is nifty. :)
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19:50<JFBelugas>someon mentionned a request?
19:50<@petern>wahey
19:50<@petern>i'm still awake
19:50<JFBelugas>barely?
19:50<JFBelugas>or...
19:50<JFBelugas>good enough?
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20:54<JFBelugas>you call it NOISE???
20:54<@petern>speakers off!
20:54<@petern>my pc fan
20:54<JFBelugas>ho... not me :D
20:54<JFBelugas>lol
20:55<JFBelugas>night again
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21:03<@petern>oh wow
21:03<@Belugas>bloody time line
21:03<@Belugas>??
21:03<@Belugas>what are you STILL doing up??
21:04<@petern>i can listen to you on my phone
21:04<@Belugas>he?
21:04<@petern>cept you stopped
21:04<@Belugas>i'm... gone
21:04<@Belugas>ho... ah... ok...
21:04<@petern>there's a live stream' heh
21:04<@Belugas>you caugh it all?
21:05<@petern>no, just tried it, alas its silent
21:05<@Belugas>well... give me a sec, i'll go down
21:05<@Belugas>if.. you can stay awaken ;)
21:05<@Belugas>-b
21:06<+glx>wrong correction ;)
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21:08<@petern>it eorks ;)
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21:11<JFBelugas>it does? ;d better play good then ;)
21:12<@petern>hehe
21:15<+glx>stop typing on the notebook :)
21:15<+glx>it's keyboard doesn't like you
21:18<JFBelugas>hehe
21:18<JFBelugas>you noticed?
21:18<JFBelugas>;)
21:18<@petern>nice playing
21:18<JFBelugas>ho... thanks...
21:18<JFBelugas>i tried to make youn sleep, i faild ;)
21:18<+glx>ho s/it's/its/ btw
21:33<JFBelugas>mmh
21:34<JFBelugas>time for me too... hit the bed
21:34<JFBelugas>ciao
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22:26<PeterT>Belugas, as I have recently discovered, there is a Hide Join/Part Messages
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 27 00:00:30 2009